Oversharing - Does Getting Botox Make Me A Bad Feminist?

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

Why are our most ambivalent relationships often the ones that cause us the most agitation? Jordana and Dr. Naomi analyze a recent article on the topic of frenemies and why they take up so much more headspace than our real adversaries. Then a listener (and fellow therapist) writes in to ask whether or not she should feel bad for making an offhand remark about her supervisor. Why do we spend so much time focusing on the smallest of comments? The Betchicist question comes from an emailer who feels like a bad feminist for wanting to get botox and other injectables to fight the signs of aging. This week’s intention setting exercise is all about finding a way to bounce back after getting a series of disappointing replies to your destination-wedding invites. Finally, they score some Triggered submissions involving a forgotten name and a surprise marriage announcement. Link to the Op-Ed discussed on today’s episode: Your Most Ambivalent Relationships Are the Most Toxic Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's everything with you? How did your oral surgery go?

Oh, I think it went well. Do I sound normal to you? I think you do. Yeah, it actually is way better than I thought it was going to be. I had kind of like not a botched surgery the first time, but I had to have the same procedure done twice, which was really, I mean, on top of having to have that, just the idea that I had to go through it twice was really irritating. Yeah.

But it made me take really good care of it this time. Like I think last time I was like, oh, no big deal. I'm just going to start eating whatever I feel like. So I did basically a Panera broccoli and cheddar soup and ice cream diet. Those are my two things that I ate for like four days straight. And first when they said I was on a liquid diet, I was like, oh, you know, do a liquid diet. I'm like, all right, maybe I'll lose a little weight. And then I was like, no, broccoli, cheddar soup and ice cream will make up all the difference.

I have had that soup. It is delicious. And I'm not just saying that because Panera is a proud sponsor of budget media. But they are great. That soup is kind of like just like melted cheese and like melted cheese with some pieces of broccoli floating in there. Exactly. Yeah. It is.

It was delicious. I'm over it now though. But it did help, I think, that I was babying the thing, you know, the area. Yeah. Really. You know, last time I jumped right back in. So you got to take care. You know, I try to just be like, all right, no problem.

I'm back. I'm going. I'm back to normal. But you got to, you know, really take care of yourself with those things, I think. Well, there's nothing like. a scarcity or something bad happening to make you really appreciate when things are going well. Like, you know, we talk about gratitude a lot and like a lot of it just kind of feels like repetitive. And you don't really, I feel like it's very hard to feel grateful for something unless it's like taken away from you.

Totally. Totally. It's so true. I have a lot to say about that. But we can shelf it. I know we have another topic that we wanted to discuss, which is that really pretty interesting New York Times article that you sent over. Yes. And to let you guys behind the screen, it was funny, I saw this article on like my news feed. I'm still look at Facebook for my news. Very weird. So it popped up and I read it. And I sent it to you. I'm like, oh, we should talk about this in tomorrow's episode. And then this morning, our brother sent us the same article. And he's like, I think this is worth an oversharing discussion. So it's a sign. Yeah, here we are. We're going to, we're going to do it. It's called opinion. Your most ambivalent relationships are the most toxic. Yeah. So. I'll just pull out my favorite piece of this article.

The whole, I'll summarize it. The whole article talks about basically the idea that there is research, biological research on like, you know, how certain types of relationships actually affect you physically. So there's research that's come out, that ambivalent relationships,

that means like where there's really good aspects of the relationship and you're being treated really well. And there's really bad aspects of the relationship. relationships are actually the most harmful to us, even physically, than the ones that are all bad. Yeah. So it's interesting. It's like you're better off having a boss or a boyfriend or a friend that's just like a total jerk than someone who's nice sometimes and not nice at other times. And just for the listeners, this is measured in actual like the rise in blood pressure that people experience.

whether they have been in an encounter with somebody who's completely mean all the time or gives like mixed messages. So it's really affecting us physically, which is what we sense when we're feeling like happy or unhappy in a relationship is how our bodies are reacting to the relationship. Totally. I mean, I completely agree with this. I think I thought of like so many scenarios where I'm like, I think my immediate thoughts were maybe about dating just because I, I mean, I completely agree with this. I think I feel like when you're dating, you're interpreting every signal so intensely. And the hardest ones, I mean, if someone doesn't like you, they don't text you or like, you know what I mean at all. But someone who's kind of like, oh, like, I'm not really sure. I'm not really sure if I like you.

Right. Yes. So I'll text you when I'm kind of like feel like it. And then sometimes I'm kind of like, I don't know if I actually like them. And those are kind of like torture, especially in the beginning. Totally. someone. Yes, versus when you go on, you know, a date and it's just really bad or the person is just a total jerk. And then you can almost do the thing where like, you're so mean and terrible that I don't really care what you think about me versus the person who's nice sometimes and you see this really loving great side of them. And then you're sort of like, oh, well, you're a good person. I actually do kind of care what you think about me is one aspect of it. And the other aspect of it is

kind of like gives you a little hope. Right. Well, it's like the Pavlovian intermittent rewards thing, right? So within that study, it's like the dog salivates, like they train the dog to salivate even when there's no treat. But because they think, because sometimes there is and sometimes they're not. Totally. I always think of like a slot. machine analogy. We're like, if you sit down at a slot machine and you sit there for three minutes and you keep pulling the lever and nothing comes out, you're like, this machine sucks, it's broken, I'm leaving.

But if like right as you're about to leave, you know, the bells go off and you win 50 bucks. You're like, all right, I got, you know, I'm onto something here. So it really, it works. It's like a almost a devious part of. human interaction when there's like you can keep someone entangled with this. And I think it's hard because most people, and I mean, you're a psychologist so you know this more than anyone,

are not like black and white, right? The vast majority of people are not like evil, trying to mess with you, like really going out of their way to like wish you harm and cause you issues. Nor is everyone perfect all the time and treating you the best they possibly could at all points. So I think most relationships have a level of ambivalence to them.

I mean, I would say they're all on the spectrum of amazing, supportive, healthy, to super toxic, avoid at all costs. So I guess with this information, I'm kind of like, what are you supposed to do with you? Right? Right. Only, you know, you have to find a relationship that's all good all the time, which doesn't exist. What I think the takeaway probably from this is you're going to have negative feelings. Like they use the example in the article about a boss that sometimes you get super positive feedback and your year-end review goes great and you get all five out of five and everything's amazing.

And then the next week you're getting scolded for not having something in on time or not doing the right thing or whatever it is. And yes, you could be both of those people. You could be a person who does great majority of the time, but does something that messes something up. And then the person, then you have to kind of be reprimanded or have it brought to your awareness. But what I think my takeaway is, I don't know who said this, but there's a quote that like people don't remember what you say. They remember how you made them feel. Right.

So I think when you are having these interactions with a person, whether it's a boss or a friend or a friend, or a romantic partner, it's not about that this person has to be in a great mood all the time or has to say positive things to you all the time or always have positive regard for you. It's more in how they make you feel as they're expressing whatever negative thing is that they have to say because that's part of relationship, whether any type of relationship that you're in. So I think if you can realize that if you're in a relationship, with someone, not that they're never going to say something negative or they're never going to

hurt your feelings, but are they doing it in a way that's conscious of your experience, how you feel, and doing it in a way, like they said in the article in a way that's candid and caring. Right. I think that's sort of the key point. I think most people can sort of tell that vibe. And they use that in the, I don't know if it was an alternative title or something example in the article, but they were talking about frenemies a lot, the people that you're friends with. that maybe like you kind of have like attention with or abrasiveness. And we get emails about that all the time. You know, they're my friend,

but they don't answer my text or they're my friend, but they don't do this. And I think there's, it can be some, sometimes it can feel a little bit unclear. But I think usually deep down inside you have a sense for the, if the person that you're interacting with is like a big supporter of you. Right.

Or if they don't. really care or they on the worst case scenario kind of dislike you right you know and i think that we can all it's it's hard to there's no like objective qualifications for that but i think we all think deep down like if you if you take any person in your life like i gave you one any person i think you could probably in your mind know that about them yes and and i think that the people that you need to get rid of or the people when you ask yourself that it's like it's like it's Is there this ambivalence because of that feeling of I, I'm not really, either I'm not sure or I don't think that they want what's best for me.

And I think a good way to think about that is like, what if something great happened to you? How do you think that person would respond? Yes, totally. And I think sometimes people can be really good at saying the words that if you've repeated them to somebody else, they, wouldn't sound demeaning or they wouldn't sound hurtful. But there's something about the context and the subtleties and the little passive, aggressive quality of how they're saying something and the way in which

they're saying it that makes it feel exactly the vibe that you're describing. Like they really don't have my best interest at heart. So I think paying attention to how someone makes you feel. And that's kind of what the article is basing it on. They're not necessarily saying like X comment is negative, X comment is positive necessarily. But like the way that the person makes you feel is the part that makes it really almost like in some ways I think these relationships are a little bit addictive. Because and they say in the article ambivalence is an invitation for rumination. So there's all this unknown that you can just take it. and swirl it around and figure it this way and what about that way.

Yes, right. Exactly. And so that's what I think ends up. To me, that was my takeaway. Ambivalence is an invitation for rumination. So when you're not clear about how you stand with, where you stand with somebody, that relationship is probably not going to make you feel good. It's the same thing of what you're saying.

You deep down have a feeling about how somebody really. really feels about you. And when you're not sure, your mind starts spinning. And as I always say on the show, your mind is not your friend. And when it starts spinning off in a million different ways, and you're trying to figure out what this person really thinks based on how many hours it took to respond to a text or how they phrased an email that they sent to you about a project, it's like, that just takes you out of your life, steals away all your ability to stay present because now you're up in your head ruminating about how they really feel. So I think the takeaway is if someone's not making you feel good or you can't trust that they have your best interest at heart,

then it's probably one of these ambivalent relationships that, you know, you have two options, I guess. You can get out of the relationship or you can create your own closure in the relationship by just saying like, I know this person is pretending to feel like they're on my side a bunch of times, but I'm just going to tell myself, I know that this person is not a fan. They're not on my team. And I'm going to just accept that. And even if sometimes they come at me with something nice, or the reverse, I do, I am going to trust that this person likes me, even though sometimes maybe they're moody or for you to create a little closure in your mind about

how you feel about this relationship, if it's a relationship that you can't get out of. Right. like a supervisor relationship or yeah and i think it's like sometimes it's hard because sometimes your own anxieties can sort of skew what's your normal view about that kind of thing and i i think early dating is probably one of those things like i would say the beginning of dating my now husband i had a lot of rumination about every text that he sent or didn't send and that was i think it was all kind of like going on in my head i don't think that was phasing him in that way like at all And now we can have the same interaction.

But I generally know and feel that he has my best interest as hard and his big supporter. And so if he didn't answer me for like two hours, it would not cause the same level of anxious rumination that it would then. But I think what you were saying is also valid. And that point is like you know yourself. You know the situation. And like you know how you like what you, if you know your own personal triggers, I think that can also help you make probably a more informed decision about cutting and running versus. versus staying and playing it out. Right.

But I see what you're saying. Like if you would have said in the beginning, dating this person is making me anxious, he's not good for me. Right. Then I might have gotten, when really it was maybe it was me being overly sensitive. Right.

So the other thing that I think we should touch on before we move on, I think is the idea of communication and how important it is to be able to have the communication instead of relying on these like little passive, aggressive, or just passive communications, like how long you take for a text or the tone, to be able to sit down with this person and just kind of be candid and hopefully they will be caring about whatever the issue is that you have to address. Like if you would have said to Mike in the beginning, I wonder, you could ask him now. If you would have said to him, in the beginning, when you took like six hours to respond to my text messages or I don't know if it was that long or

whatever it was, it made me feel anxious. If I would have come to you and said, hey, I'm really starting to like you. I look forward to seeing you. When we don't have a plan for the next date, I start to worry that maybe this is fizzling. Right. I wonder how he, you know, would have handled that instead of you having to read through this ambivalence or what you saw as ambivalence and then your blood pressure is going up like they talk about in the article. Right. Yeah, no, I think that probably would have gone very well. And I think, again, it was like, it's like a real verse.

Sometimes it's like a real versus perceived slight in your own mind also. But if you can have that conversation and someone is mature and actually likes you, right, maybe that you work through that. Totally. And, you know, I do think the article talks a lot about work, which I think is a slightly different context. And I think if, you know, if you are having to. reprimand someone or remind someone or, you know, you give them a great review,

but then two weeks later you need to get on them for something. I think it also does matter, like the tone and the context and saying, like, I know you, you know, you're, you're really great at this stuff. And even sometimes what can be helpful for those of you out there that are supervisors or have people working under you that you need to have negative conversations with to be able to say, is there something going on? I know this isn't like you. And opening up that dialogue to say like, I really trust you, I value you so that when you're giving negative feedback, it comes off as caring. Like you said, you're giving off that genuine vibe of, I like you. There's no ambivalence here about how I'm feeling. I think you're great. Here's a particular thing

that you did that we need to address. Right, which is probably how you would address something with like your kids. In some ways, you're the boss of your family. Right. Right. But since you do already have sort of like an ingrained love for your kid, it's probably more. When you say when you know, when you tell your kid to clean up after themselves, they're not like, well, is she like still into me? Like yes. You want to be my mom. I mean, maybe some kids do have that and that's probably really traumatic.

But like it's kind of you think about that in an employee relationship. But the difference is like you might flat fire an employee. You're probably not like you're going to give your kid up for adoption. So I could see why that would be a little more. more stressful. Yeah, it's a good point. But I, the, you know, this ambivalence is, it creates like an addictive rumination, which I think is what people need to find their way out of, whether it's through

communication or just creating closure in your mind about how someone feels about you. I'm not their cup of tea. Okay. Right. Move on. Yeah. I think it's hard for a family member. If you have a family member that's sort of like sometimes really toxic towards you and

other times really nice, but they're. in your family, it can be, I think, harder to draw that line too. Totally. And there is this, you know, kind of childlike hope, I think, that you have, where when someone's nice, that it's going to continue and that you're going to get more of that. And that doesn't usually, that's not, if they're inconsistent, they're going to remain inconsistent. Right.

And then you just have to decide how much you're willing to tolerate of that. Right. And awareness is key. when you're in an ambivalent type of relationship, I think there is some power in defining it as ambivalent. Agreed. Also, forgot to mention, for anyone who's interested, I do have some room in some of my groups. So I have a Tuesday afternoon group.

If anyone is interested in joining, you can email me at Naomi Bernstein-Syke at gmail.com. And I have a little bit of room in one of my Monday evening group. So for any of you listeners who want to try it out, see what group therapy is about. Hit me up and we'll see if we can find a group that's a match for you. Check it out. Send her the email. Get more Dr. Naomi in your life. So let's get into our first email. It actually feels like that it has maybe a little bit to do with this too, right? Yeah. Let's do it. Let's read it. Hi, Trudana and Dr. Naomi. I'm loving the pod. As a therapist myself who is very close with her sister, I'm getting so much out of your weekly sessions. This is a long-winded one,

but I think you and your fellow therapist listeners might find it interesting. As noted above, I am a psychotherapist. I work for a group practice that was founded by a total boss lady who is also my clinical supervisor. I look up to her so much and thinks she is a talented therapist, impressive businesswoman, an overall amazing person. Five months ago, we had one of our two. Someone's been ruminating for quite a bit to bring it back to the article. Five months ago, we had one of our two annual get-togethers for the whole team.

About a year prior, her husband left his corporate marketing job to work for our practice, managing our website and all things marketing. This also allows them to be more available to care for their three children. At the event, there was an icebreaker that asked everyone to find one thing in common. When he and I spoke, we established that we were both the cooks in our family. When it came time to share with the group what we found, I said something coy trying to be funny along the lines of not to put Sarah, his wife, founder of the practice and my supervisor on blast, but John and I are both the cooks of our family. Everyone chuckled and we moved on. I didn't think twice about it. Fast forward to last week five months later. I'm in supervision with Sarah,

and supervision is like when you, just for the listeners, I think that's when you speak to your own. You come in and like discuss your cases and with someone who's more experienced than you and get feedback on kind of what you're doing or how you can handle a case. Okay. I feel like I remember that from the Sopranos. Did he have a supervisor? That's funny. No, she, his therapist had a supervisor. She talked about have the fact that she was like seeing this mob boss, which is the only reason I think I know about that. Okay. So she's in supervision with Sarah, her boss.

We were talking about the power of projection and how much we can learn about our clients by what they project onto us. As an example, she said, remember that icebreaker we did at the January event? And you made that comment about not wanting to put me on blast because my husband cooks for me and my kids. I actually feel pretty good about the contributions I make to my family. But that's a good example because I learned a lot about what assumptions you make and what biases you have.

She then went straight back to my clinical material before I had a chance to comment. I felt completely caught off guard. For the record, I have nothing but respect for the practice she is built and the mother she is. I guess it was just a stupid, careless comment. I felt unsure about whether or not to revisit it or apologize since she went straight back to my case. It seemed like maybe I needed to show her that I could handle the feedback, but also I felt

as though I offended her since she's evidently been thinking about this for months. I walked away feeling triggered, confused, and embarrassed. Am I right to feel this way? Sincerely and apparently sex is fetch. This was amusing and I thought a really good one. It also relates back to, I think, our opening discussion about feeling like someone might kind of hate you, even though you like respect them. Right.

You know, I think the worst part about this and I, yes, I do think she can feel confused and all the things that she feels because I think the worst part about this is that she brought up this thing that happened between the two of them that probably made her feel the supervisor feel something that she's bringing up or feel even if she the supervisor is couching it like I learned something about you but I'm sure it did bring up a little tinge of something for her and she brings it up in supervision drops it and then like runs away like she just drops a bomb and then like turns and runs the other way and starts talking about something totally different. So that's the part that I think I could see.

Very past aggressive, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love the fact that she brought it up. I do think it is a good example of perhaps projection about her ideas of male and female roles in a household. I could see why she brought it up. The fact that she dropped it and ran and didn't sit for the conversation.

is the part that, you know, I feel like is. And defended herself, though, in the same thing. Like, I feel pretty good about my contribution, like, as almost like she's been waiting five months to, like, confront her about this thing. And then she's thinking, she's been thinking about it for five months, like, oh, should I feel weird that I don't cook for my family? Like, and then she came to, she's like, well, I've decided I feel good about my contributions. And now she's kind of like, you and your biases.

Right. Yeah. I think it's like a very rude passive aggressive comment and it would totally bother me as well. And it would also be so upsetting because it'd be like, oh, this person has been thinking about this comment that I made that was clearly offensive to them for five months and hasn't said anything about it. Right. I definitely see that perspective and I agree. And I think the way that she did it made it come off as sort of petty and passive aggressive. I do think it's a good example. I do think it's a good. of what she's trying to teach her about like how you can understand someone's biases. She probably did have a little bias of like, oh, maybe you would be embarrassed that your husband does the cooking, right? I do think there was there was something there in the way that she said. Like, I don't mean to put her on blast, like implying that she might be embarrassed by people

knowing that her husband does the cooking. fine. And I think that this conversation was a great conversation perhaps for the two of them to have. Maybe they should have had it four and a half months earlier. That might have been a better time to have this conversation. So I don't think it's about them having it, but I could see why the way she phrased it, kind of spit out everything that she needed to say about it, brought her into the example and a personal thing that they had between the two of them and then ran the other way. And I could also see why it would leave her feeling this like ambivalent thing about their relationship now. Because now she's dropped this little bomb that makes her feel like maybe she's, you know, been thinking about her and, you know, using her as like this little example of, you know, projection without her even being aware.

Right. Do you think it would be appropriate for her to be like, I guess to say, hey, can we talk about that comment? that you made it. Yes. It made me feel all these things. Yes. And embarrassed. Because that's part of supervision.

Yeah. Right. The best supervision that I've ever had, and I think what makes clinicians really good, is when their supervision is really real. Like, I've had supervisors where I come in, I check in, I tell them about my day or what I've done or the cases and it's very clinical. And then I've had supervision where it's like about me and the supervisor. And I've had supervision.

I've had supervisees where we talk about like our relationship between each other and like what's really in the room. So I think this would be a beautiful, amazing conversation for them to have. I think it would be fascinating for this listener to see how her supervisor handles it. And I think it would show a lot of maturity on her end that she's able to confront it again. And the sooner the better. Right. Because unless she does that, she probably will have one of these ambivalent. about the supervisor of ambivalence, which is going to cause her a lot of anxiety,

rumination. She's clearly writing into us about it. So she's been thinking about a lot. I mean, that would stress me out. If anyone, I think, even at my same level said that to me, let alone, like, if you said that to me, I think that would be if you just casually dropped in something that I, remember when you were projecting all of your shit onto me and I feel really great about my life. So that's, so that's a you problem.

Next. Right. I think anyone who said that, any peer that said that to me, I would feel like they'd been harboring. And that makes, I think, a situation so much worse. I think if she had said right after this event to her the next day that they were at work. And maybe she didn't say it because she felt petty even saying it because like clearly it was a joke. And it was her. It was like an icebreaker.

And it was like maybe her game. So maybe she felt like embarrassed about it, too embarrassed about it to say it at the time. And then it was too late. I don't know. Yeah, I totally agree. I think this is supervision is supposed to be a really safe space for you to talk about like what's coming up for you. Like that's what happens. I let's say I have a patient and that patient reminds me of my, you know, ex-boyfriend. That's something that I would bring into my supervisor and say like I'm feeling triggered by this person. They remind me of my ex-boyfriend. Like it's real stuff that you talk about like your personal feelings.

about what goes on in therapy. So I think this is great. I think it's coming up at the exact right time. We're talking about how to clear up an ambivalent relationship through candid and caring communication. And I hope she brings it back up and that you write back in and tell us how it went. I'm actually eagerly awaiting the follow up on this one. Please do. I really hope you talk to her about it.

It's perfect. It's perfect supervision conversation. Same. Give us the update. We want the dirty details. How is her marriage? Do you want to read our betchesist email where we discuss, you know, what our ethical take is on a moral quandary? Yes, let's do it. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Greetings from Australia. I love your podcast and honestly have a million questions for you, but I've settled on this one for now. I'm 30 years old and I'm starting to feel self-conscious about my looks and signs of aging. Every day, day there's a war in my mind about whether or not to get Botox. I feel like more and more of the

women around me, from friends to cousins to colleagues, both older and younger than me, are getting some sort of cosmetic enhancements or injectable. Note that none of my male friends or colleagues have, or they're just not talking about it. That's me. I normally feel quite content with the way I look and have pretty good self-esteem, but I feel like now I'm no longer on a fair playing field and my naturally aging and naturally shaped face is competing with the sea of faces that have been specially modified to look younger, slimmer, et cetera. I feel like it's not fair and I need to compete with the same tools. I also have big issues with the cosmetic injectables industry because it's so heavily targeted at women. It conflicts with my feminist values. I think if it weren't for the gender

imbalance, I would have gotten Botox by now because the ethical feminist issue wouldn't bother me if all humans were made to feel equally ashamed of signs of aging. Equal shame, equal access to you. That's all we want. My female friends who get Botox or filler tell me they do it, quote, for themselves, but this really doesn't make sense to me. It seems like it's subconsciously done so they can fight the signs of aging and thus look more attractive to other people, namely men.

And as ashamed as I am to admit it, this is why I want to start doing it too. I'm single and dating with intention and have fears that men are going to start finding me less attractive due to my increasingly noticeable wrinkles and lines. I want to maximize my options and feel like Botox will help me stay attractive to men. Ultimately, I feel like if I do it, the feminist in me will regret it. And if I don't do it, the 30-year-old who really wants to stay young and hot will regret it. How do I win? Looking forward to hearing what you think.

Okay. I like this question a lot. I have gotten Botox, full disclosure. And I think everyone, most people who have had anything done probably have had some form of that debate in their minds at some point.

So I think it's a good question. Great question. But I also think it's a slippery slope. And, you know, I think it does bring up this question of, well, like, makeup is heavily targeted towards women. Makeup isn't really targeted towards men. Why don't men have to wear makeup?

You know, like, and I think most people accept that, that wearing makeup is not anti-feminist, or maybe it is and people don't care. So I think that there is a little bit of like a cherry picking here of the things that are okay or the not okay in judgment on to others. And I guess herself about,

you know, that line. And I think that's natural to have that. I think it's nice to think. about the things that you're doing and not just do them and think about why you're doing them and think about the societal reasons that go into why you feel the need for cosmetic surgery or makeup or anything that you're doing that's expensive or uncomfortable or time consuming in the in pursuit of looking better because I think there's very few people who do nothing.

Right. You know what I mean? So it's like I don't really know where the line is drawn. Right. I totally agree. and I do think there's like an arbitrary line being drawn maybe because you have to go to a doctor to do it or, you know, a center or whatever it is or yet it's expensive or it feels like you are injecting a literal toxin into your skin to, you know, whatever it is. I think it's an arbitrary line. Like I remember when we first started this podcast, it was probably, I mean, towards the beginning.

And I was like going to let my hair just go gray. Yeah. And here we are now. Still brown. Here we are now, and my hair is not gray. And I tried it for a bit. And it wasn't making me feel great. And I think it was freaking the kids out.

Mom's going crazy. That's very funny. I mean, I see what this listener is saying. Like, it's sad that, like, you know, your husband could go gray and no one would probably think about it. And it would be fine. And for you, it's not, you don't have the same, or you do have the same option, but there's just more of a societal pushback.

Right. And we've talked about this on here before that there is this, you know, as much as people don't want to hear it, there is this kind of biological difference between men and women in the sense that men can reproduce until there. I just saw something. Who is it? Al Pacino. Al Pacino.

82. It's crazy. So like, you know, you can have, you can look 82 and still you can naturally allow yourself to age to the age of 82 without makeup or any of it and still reproduce. And so there's something biological that we're fighting against where women have a clock that runs out at a certain point. And there is this natural appearance that occurs that is designed. to send the signal to potential mates that you're no longer able to be impregnated. It sucks and it's annoying and it's sad, but it just is, I think that's what we're fighting against.

Yes, I think it's cultural. I'm not saying that it's not magnified to the extreme, but we're not starting off on a totally level playing field biologically. But I think it would be worse to not do something because. you feel like you need to put your foot in the sand when you actually really want it. I think if you don't want it, that's great. That's like wonderful. I wish I could be the kind of person who didn't care or didn't want it.

That's not who I am. And I mean, like, I think there's, again, that's on a spectrum. I don't think it's like I need to have it constantly or else I freak out. But I think if I can get it and I can afford it and it makes me feel a little better like anything else that I do for that reason, it doesn't really. bother me. But I think to not do it when you want it and you can do it to make a point to no one who's listening is silly. Yeah. I agree with that. And you can still be a feminist and you can still fight for equal rights in all the ways that matter to you. And you're not a fake or a fraud or a

phony. Because like you said, if you put mascara on, does that make you not a feminist or a fraud or a phony, no, that's just how, you know, neither does getting Botox, if that's something you want. On the flip side, I think a lot of these things, it's like nitpicky. Like when you look at the before and after, if you saw those two people walking down the street next to each other, you wouldn't really, oh my God, that woman is so much more beautiful than that woman because she's got a fine line. like if a guy's not going to want to date you because you have a small wrinkled line in your forehead then well to me that's why it's really more about confidence and what you think about yourself

and so and again like if you feel like it'll make you feel a little more confident and the lift to getting there isn't that big like I'll give you an example I had a I have this thing I had this thing that I um had growing up that was like excess breast tissue on like sort of like my armpit kind of area. And it would always bother me. No one ever said anything to me about it. It wasn't like something that anyone else brought up. But every time I looked at the mirror.

Or made fun of or whatever. No, not even right. Not even like that no one really noticed it. But every time I wore a tank top, I saw it and I just didn't like it. So when I made enough money that I could get it removed, I went and I paid and I got it removed. And ever since then, I'd never thought about it once. I haven't thought about it at all.

And to me, what I paid for is not that I'm so much more attractive to everyone out there. All the men now think I'm so much hotter than my armpits are then. I'm paying for me just not even thinking about it. I'm paying for the mental energy that used to go into hating and thinking about that thing and wanting to always get rid of it and thinking, should I get rid of it? Should I not get rid of it? Doing it, what I paid for is the ability to not think about it at all. Clear your mind.

Yep. That's, I totally agree. That's how I feel when people like freeze their eggs, for example. It's like, all right, now you can just move on with your life and know that you have these nice fresh eggs that are frozen and that you can use. And you can just like get the timeline thing of the aging of your eggs out of your head and move on with your life. So this listener does write that she thinks about this. I think she writes. She thinks about it almost every day.

So if you're thinking about this every day, we give you permission. Go do it. Get it done. You could still fight for feminist rights. You could still fight in all the ways that make you feel good about what's, you know, what you're doing and how you feel about, you know, the injustices in the world. You're picking an arbitrary line and you're drawing it at injectables, unless you really are the type of person that's not wearing any makeup or not wearing ever a push-up bra or, you know, coloring your hair or anything. So yeah, I totally agree. I think do it. You won't have to think about it. Doesn't make you anti-feminist. And, you know, do what makes you happy. Yeah. And the clearing of the space, I totally agree. That's what it's all

about. If it's something that you just, you could try first to clear the space in your mind without it. And if that doesn't work and there's something you can do to fix it and you have the means, go for it. Yeah. Move on. Right. But there's no reason to keep thinking about it if you can fix it. And you think about it all the time. So I agree with that. Agree. Let's do some intentions. All right.

This is a intentions or Dr. Naomi is going to give the listener a mantra or something to think about when they're getting anxiety over or something in their life. Okay. Hi, Jordan and Dr. Naomi. Thank you for being the weekly pick me up. I desperately crave. By the way, despite what reviewers may have said, your guided meditation episode was incredibly helpful. I loved it. Good to know. On to the issue that kept me up all last night.

Both my fiance and I immigrated to the U.S. when we were teenagers, and so we feel that many of our friends and our friends' parents became our adopted families here. We have known these people for 10 to 15 years, spend Christmases and Thanksgiving together, travel together, and feel very attached to them. So when we started to plan our wedding, we felt that a U.S. wedding is ideal. We can bring our actual families to visit and also ensure the attendance of the people we've spent our adult lives with. Unfortunately, he is from a small country in Africa, and for locals of this country, it's incredibly difficult to get visas to visit the U.S. and every single one of his siblings, parents, and grandparents visa applications to the U.S. was denied. We weighed our options for six

months and ultimately decided we couldn't deprive his family of attending this event, nor deprive him of having his family at his freaking wedding. So we decided to move the weddings from New York City to Africa, but we put the budget difference toward catering the event to the U.S. attendees. ensuring familiar food options, booking hotel rooms, a great DJ, transportation, etc. We went above and beyond to speak to each individually, explain the situation and tell them how much it would mean if they made it to the wedding. While we knew many of our friends wouldn't be able to make it, we held out hope that those who were the closest friends to us who are financially well off, have flexible jobs and travel

internationally, including in Africa all the time, but ultimately make it. Fast forward some months, we are now three months away from the wedding and people keep declining left and right. We'd be having a lovely day and all of a sudden my fiancee will have a devastated look on his face and turn to me and say, so-and-so is backing out. And it would ruin the mood for days to come. Many more of my friends, those I consider family, are starting to ghost and decline without a real explanation. Just it's bad timing. It's been very painful and honestly embarrassing at times. All those people I've always talked to him about as being my number one seem to not care that much about me. We were so excited and so over the moon about our wedding, planning it meticulously

with everyone's enjoyment in mind, and now it just feels like it's ruined before it even happened. I know we should be grateful that we have the means to do this at all to bring our families together and that any friends coming from the U.S. to begin with. Yet we find ourselves fixating on the 10 or so core people that we feel disappointed us without a very good reason. It feels like a reality check. The voice in our heads is, those people you thought loved you very much, don't actually love you that much. You shouldn't be invested. in them going forward. How can we get out of this rut and focus on what truly matters in this period of our lives? Is there an intention we can use when the next person declines? Help,

disappointed, unloved Bridezilla. What do you think? I validate how she feels. I think it's tough because they really did initially want to prioritize all their friends in New York to the point where they were going to like do it there just so they could be there. However, I don't think you can have an expectation that people are going to get on a plane and fly across the world and pay, you know, I actually looked it up. It's like probably around $1,500 per person to fly to Africa. I don't even know. It could be more than that. So I get where she's coming from, but I do love that she's trying to find a way to stay close and have loving feelings for people, even though they're not going to be going to her wedding.

Because I think that, you know, I've been through that. You've probably been through this idea of like you pick a wedding place. And some people aren't going to be able to make it work. And you have to really kind of be able to tolerate that. Right. Yeah. I think that's sort of like the tradeoff. I remember when we both had destination weddings.

And I remember planning it. And then being like, okay, like, you're, picking something that you want to do that is convenient and nice for you, but you're asking other people a lot more. And so you either have to do something that is the most convenient for everyone that you want to come or something that you want to do and accept that some people won't come and that's okay. Right. And it's still a little disappointed. I totally relate to what she's feeling. It feels like a little disappointing. There is a feeling in the back of your head of, well, if they really they'd figure it out if they really want to come.

They don't care enough to make it work. Right. But I think everyone's bar for how they show that they care is different. And for some people, it's showing up and being there. And other people, it's, you know, maybe they'll take you out for a special dinner celebration or they don't think the actual wedding presence is as important as celebrating you in a different way. And it's too much of a sacrifice, whether that's money, time.

Again, getting on that long of a flight, which a lot of people don't. don't really like to do. My immediate thought isn't those people don't care about you. Right. And but I get why it's even like this whole wedding, you know, there's like a few phases in life where it's sort of like if you care, you'll show up. And it's like the wedding or like when the baby arrives or like a funeral or whatever, there's these moments where it's like, this is your moment to show up and show me that you care about me. And I don't think that it necessarily has to go down that way. I do hope that they can open their eyes to this unfolding into a beautiful, intimate wedding where they can, it's going to be super unique and his family is going to be there

and her family is going to be there. And I think if they let go of their need for these specific people to come, I think it's going to unfold beautifully. Even like I can relate in this on a very small scale, but a silver lining is so like, you know, we had this big party for Jeff's 50th. We live in Texas. Most of our, a lot of our friends and family don't live here. And so I didn't really expect a lot of people to come, but there were like a couple of people that came. And it ended up being like such, it really strengthened my relationships with those people that came

because there were only a few of them that made the effort. So it made me feel so warm and loving towards the people that actually made the effort to book the plane tickets and get on the plane and come over that it just, it was like, I felt such a deep love for those people that made the effort to do it. And so I think this could kind of be that, not that you have to kick everyone else to the curb, but that you can focus on these few people that are really going to show up because I think sometimes with a wedding, if there's so many people, you get kind of stretched a little bit thin in terms of how you can spend time. with people anyway. So I think there might be some silver linings here in terms of the two people that do make the effort and how connected and close. And it's going to be this like really beautiful intimate, you know, ceremony and wedding experience with all these people that do choose to come and make the time for it. I love that mentality because it's much more like positive. And it's not saying, okay, like everyone who didn't come fucking sucks and like write them off. And they don't.

care. It's like really just kind of focusing on the positive of the experience so that you have anyone in the world that would travel to. Yes. To Africa to watch you get married. Like that's, even getting one person to do that is like really special. And I think that like you said, focusing on how cool it is that that person is coming. And you're going to have those memories with them for the rest of your life. And that that's going to be whoever does show up, it's going to be an unbreakable bond in terms of your relationship and the memories and, you know, being able to share that with them. So I would just focus on that. And then logistically, you could have a little party or reception or something for the people. Yes. For the people that are

home, I would keep on this train of thought and not writing them off because of the fact that they're not doing this thing and going all this way for you. I don't think it's an expression of their love. You said they've been like family to you to the point where you were going to prioritize them. And I would not let this one, you know, decision, which is a big decision. It takes a lot of time. You know, people save up and wait their whole lives to plan a trip like this. So, you know, I get they kind of either don't want to do it or want it to be on their terms. And I don't think that it means that they don't love you.

So one of the things that I wrote for her to kind of come back to because I think it's making her doubt these people's feelings for her or that whether or not they really loved her. And I think she has so much respect and cherishes these relationships so much as I wrote, I trust that the love I've been given is real. going back to all the memories that you had with them, all the thanksgivings, all the Christmases, all the times that they've made you feel like family.

That's real. That's there. There's nothing about this that I think should take away from that. And the other one I wrote is, I will allow our years of love and friendship to carry the most weight. So I would definitely lean towards, forgive them, understand it, be understanding, plan a little dinner, and then turn the page and cherish the beautiful

memories with the tiny intimate wedding that you're about to have, which I think is going to be. I think this might be a blessing in disguise for you. You're going to have, you know, wonderful memories with the people that show up. I agree. Good luck. Good luck. Send picks. And always remember. I'm just kidding. Sorry. Who came? No. I mean, we, You do remain. I mean, like, yeah, it would be great if you, if everyone could remember, you know, you talk about like a funeral, a wedding, a baby. Like, it would be great if you could just remember the people who came and not like

remember the people who didn't. But it might, you know, it's okay. It's okay if someone disappoints you. You can be disappointed and still have a friendship. Yes. I agree. All right. Let's do some triggers.

You ready? All right. Let's do it. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Thanks for all you guys do on the podcast. I look forward to listening every. Tuesday. I have a scenario for your triggered section. My husband and I recently received an

invitation for his cousin's wedding later this year. My husband and I have been married for over a year, together for five years, and the invitation was addressed to, quote, my husband's name and guest. His cousin and fiancee, we have seen multiple times for the holidays, birthdays, etc. over the past five years. This cousin attended our wedding last year as well, but his fiance couldn't make it due to a family emergency. Additionally, when they first got engaged, my mother-in-law informed me that they were just going to have a small wedding with immediate family only. None of us would be invited. However, after this past Thanksgiving, my mother-in-law told me that the cousin's fiance changed her mind about inviting more family after talking to me

about our wedding and how much we enjoyed bringing everyone together. Should I be triggered? I just find it very surprising and slightly rude since I know the cousin and fiancee decently well. Thanks for your input. A wife, not a guest. I think this is kind of triggering. I think it's like, I agree, it's like very rude. Yeah. To write and guess to someone whose name you clearly know that is married. It's like, if you want to bring someone else, that's on her, you can. Yeah. Totally. Yeah, I could see why this is triggering. I think this was probably laziness, to be honest. Maybe she didn't want to figure out how to spell her name. Yes. I literally think that that might be what this is. didn't know how to spell the last name. She didn't want it to be awkward and ask. And she was they,

I'll say not she, they were lazy and not like putting the effort into finding out either what her last name was or is or how to spell it or whatever. I agree. This is triggering. I think it's like if you look up wedding faux pas, it's probably up there when you're looking at like how to address envelopes, not to put a married person as a guest. So, yeah, I could see. I agree. I would, I would let it go unless this is like one of many,

many slights that you feel like are been coming your way. Like, unless you think it's like a pattern of like disrespect, I would let it go just because I agree with you. It seems like it's about laziness. It says she was planning on having a smaller wedding and then sort of changed her mind later in the game and maybe she was like scrambling a little bit and is kind of lazy and came off rude. But yeah, would you say something? I think I don't think it's worth saying something.

I probably wouldn't say anything. If at the most, maybe you could make like a little joke, you know, about it. Like, oh, you know, he decided to bring me as a guest or, you know, like he picked me. I got the invite. I don't know. I would leave it alone. I would chalk it up to just her being lazy and maybe just avoiding the awkwardness. If you have a complicated last name or something, I don't know.

Or if you change your name, I don't know. I don't know any of the details. If he just should know the name, if her, you know, she took her husband's last name and the name is like Parker or something. Mr. and Mrs. whatever. Yeah, I get it. Like there's, yeah, I agree. This seems like intense laziness. Yeah.

But I would give it a solid six on the triggered scale. Okay. Just for being rude and being lazy, too lazy to get it right. That's true. Yeah. Lasiness is triggering. Yeah. I agree.

Okay. So that's a six. I'll take that. I was going to say five, but call it a six if you want. I would also be like showing my husband and making sure that he thought it was rude to. That would make me feel better. I think it would make me feel better for him to be like, if he made a joke about it, like, oh, I guess I'll bring my girlfriend.

Right. Totally. By the way, if you need to know how to spell her name, here it is. Exactly. All right. I'm going to read the last one. Hi, Joanna and Dr. Naomi.

I've been a loyal listener for about a year now and love tuning in every week for your wisdom, thoughtfulness and humor. I'm writing in with a triggered submission for you. A longtime friend of mine we met 10 years ago in college, just got married to her partner. Here's the thing. I didn't even know she was engaged. Was she even engaged or was it an elopement? I have no clue.

I found out she was married by pictures she posted online and was shocked because I'd heard nothing of it. For context, we were super close in college and have stayed in touch since. But communication has dwindled to text catch-ups every six months or so since she isn't great about staying in touch and I got tired of making all the effort. That said, she's still someone I can. care about very deeply and found a jarring and disrespectful to our friendship to find about her out about her very small wedding over social media. How triggered should I be? Thanks for all you do.

Best, not a bridesmaid. So I think this is interesting on a deeper level. And I think a lot of people probably can relate to the idea of having these old friendships that are kind of like hanging on by a thread where a text catch up every six months. I don't know if I would really call that like an active friendship. Definitely not a close friendship. Right. So I mean, even like the idea of just like a text catch up, let alone a text catch up every six months,

I think it feels sort of like I could see. Like I've had, I'll just speak for myself. I've had friendships where we don't talk often. and I'll do the thing where I just like do a little text, hey, thinking of you or miss you or whatever. And then in response to that, the person will give me the latest news in their life.

But if I would, if I wouldn't have initiated that, hey, what's up thinking of you in that moment? I could understand why they're not just out of the blue going to say, oh, hey, by the way,

you know, going to go down the, their whole, contact list and be like, oh, hey, by the way, got married or getting married or whatever it is. Or like, I've had friends that give me a huge piece of news, but I'm sort of like, I could understand why you didn't just reach out to me randomly with this piece of news, especially, I mean, this happens to be positive news, but I've had friends that have given me like negative news or something they're struggling with in their life that I could see.

you don't want to just like pop in out of the blue. Yeah. With this. Right. I agree. I don't think it's that triggering, especially like they haven't spoken in six months. Let's say this is a very small wedding.

Maybe it came up after that. I don't think it'd be weird for her to not text you. It's not like you, if she had spoken to her like last week or even last month and said, hey, what's going on. She didn't mention the fact that she was getting married. I think that would be weird. But for all she knows, like this could have happened.

it sounds like it's very small. They could have just decided to elope. And I can see why, especially if she wasn't inviting her or any or that many people, why she would feel the need to tell them. I think it's almost like a little weird that she thought that she should have been told in some ways. I guess I guess without thought that she should have been told without knowing more information about how this wedding even came about.

Right. But sometimes something happens that it does show you like, oh, I guess we're not really that good friends anymore. Which is fine. doesn't have to be offensive. Yes. I think this is probably perfect for a triggered scenario in the sense that I could see why she's triggered because I think she's probably triggered by the fact that this friendship is like on its way out if they don't really put some more effort or energy into it. And if this is a friendship that you're interested in keeping, I think you can say,

you know, I totally understand. We've been really out of touch. Like I don't think she has a right to be angry about this, but I think she could use it as a jumping off point to like, I really miss you. I felt really terrible that I don't know what's going on in your life. And I would love to stay more in touch. Let's grab a drink. Let's, you know, get together, whatever it is. So I think if anything, if this is really bothering you, I think it's bothering you, not because she didn't tell you, but because of what the significance of the fact that she didn't tell you. If you really didn't care, you'd reach back out and say, oh my gosh, so happy for you. I'm so surprised or I had no idea would love to, you know, get together and celebrate.

Agreed. I think, yeah. I think she could say, I just saw your post. So excited for you. I, I had no idea. Like, I would love to catch up more and then maybe even say that more in person. Right. Or like this thing made me realize how, you know, uninvolved I am in your life. Yeah. And that's what it is. And I've, I've been there. Like, you know, I can, I can understand. that sometimes a relationship takes the back burner. And then when you realize that this person has this whole life that's like going on in between these six month random text checkups, you can kind of feel sad. Like, wow, I really don't know anything about your life anymore.

And that makes me feel sad. And I wouldn't get angry. I would just use it as a clue that you have a desire to maintain this relationship and, you know, channel it into that type of a of a change that you can make i like so i give this on the lower end just based on their texting history of every six months we wouldn't tell you either give it a i'd give it like a i'd give it like an initial four and then when i thought about it i think i would bump it down to two for my own self i would right for someone that i i could see having an immediate feeling of like, oh, was I not invited to this person's wedding? Do they like hate me?

But then maybe after like doing a little bit more dissecting of how many people were invited, I feel like I would feel. And the last time I had spoken to them, I might feel a little better. Right. I could agree. And it's, you know, again, I do validate that it is sad when you have that realization of somebody that you were really close with 10 years ago. This is just the nail in the coffin of like we are not close anymore and having to confront that, even though you've been trying to pretend that you've been, you know, in touch by the random texts. The reality is that that's not enough effort to maintain a friendship.

And so I, maybe I give it a little higher because it's sad to realize that you're not in touch, but I think as far as like her doing something wrong or wronging you by not, you know, telling you, I agree with like a three. Okay. We'll settle on three then. All right. All right. I think we did it again. We did it.

Send us your updates. Oh, someone update. Someone sent us an email. We got a few things about the piano thing for some reason. Someone suggested getting like these styrofoam things that you can put on your wall to make the noise go lower. So I don't know. But doesn't have to go on the piano side of the wall, like her side? She was like maybe, I think someone said either you could put it on your side.

or if it's on theirs, you could ask them to put it on theirs or split the costs. I don't know how much it costs. But some people threw in some practical solutions to the piano. A lot of people were triggered by the piano situation themselves. Yeah, they're like, oh my gosh, I can imagine this. Yeah. All right. I think that's our time.

Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Salz McCaff McCabe. Editing by ALEEFRILEEN. Yes, Booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches