Oversharing - Does “Manifesting” Actually Work?

Episode Date: December 20, 2022

Jordana starts the week by uncovering one of her ghosts of Christmas past, and Naomi explains why it may be relevant to all of us. The Oversharing email of the week comes from a listener who is curious about the difference between manifesting vs. reality. Naomi advises that what you pay attention to in your own mind is where your reality lives, so “don’t bullsh*t yourself”. Next, they read a Betchicist email from a listener who was given sensitive information from their mother-in-law. Should they ignore the elephant in the room when everyone is together for the holidays? They offer some intention-setting help to a “worried Betch” who believes something terrible will happen to their loved ones. To close, they rate a pair of triggered submissions about blind dates and pushed boundaries. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. What's up?

What's new to? It's that time of year. Yes. The holiday cheer is abound. Yeah, it looks like you guys. I saw on Instagram. You guys went to some town holiday thing. Oh my gosh. That was really funny. Yeah, Brooks had his Santa hat on and his Hanukkah sweater. That was very cute Hanukkah sweater. Yeah, it was really cute. Yeah, so that was fun. You know, it's funny because we, you can relate to this, but, you know, we're obviously Jewish. Both of us are Jewish. Yes. But we both really like Christmas. And so, you know, usually you think.

think that if a Jew marries a Jew, it's like there's no Christmas. But we both always kind of loved it and always were sort of jealous and we're like, now we're adults and we can do whatever we want. Yeah. I mean, personally, I say this. I mean, I'm married to someone who is not Jewish who does celebrate Christmas. But even before that, I did kind of feel like Christmas is an American holiday more so than it is a like religious. I mean, obviously it's a religious holiday. Some people would be very offended by that. But I hear you and I agree. I mean, in the same way that I think Halloween is like, has some background and some like religious stuff. And if you don't make it about the religion, like if you don't have like, I don't know, baby Jesus everywhere, like it can just be like a fun,

festive, like it's colors. It's like trees. It's like seasonal. So we, it's funny. I was going to bring, that brings me to my story. We have a tree. You know, Mike loves Christmas. And I like, like the songs. I like the vibe. I do enjoy it. Again, like I said, as a festive fun time of year where there's like parties and I think of it as a commutal holiday. Yeah. So we have a, we started getting a tree like a few years into dating together and I kind of, you know, took the reins on the lead design and I made it sort of like a bluish theme. Right. Just, you know, as a nod to Hanukkah. And we have a menorah sits next to it. So I try to incorporate that.

But I remember like a few years ago, we got into like, I wouldn't call it a fight. It was more like a discussion because my dad, something happened where like my dad was like called or I was like talking to him about something. And I like, I didn't, I like purposely didn't mention the tree or I was like, you know, I didn't like say we didn't have one. He didn't ask, do you have a tree? Right. But I like, am purposely like omitting it. And like on Instagram, I would just like hide it from him. Just because like, I know it's like not something that he,

it was something that would bother him, the idea of me having a tree. Right. It's very not what we do as a. Totally. People feel very strongly about that. Yes. People feel very strongly. Yes.

And it's really just a tree. But yeah, people get very upset about that. Okay. Yeah. And then I remember Mike being like, I think it's like a little strange that you're like hiding this tree. Like, and it's just funny because like, I mean, I mean, I think with his family or with Christian people, maybe in general, there's a lot less, like, strong feelings of emotion around holidays.

Like, his parents, when I come to Christmas, have, like, minoras everywhere and they have, like, little menorah ornaments. They're like... That's really nice. No, it's really sweet. They're, like, very much trying to feel me, to make me feel included. It's funny how there's just so much less, like, there's so much less emotion around, like, other holidays, like, the otherness. And I guess that's sort of a privilege of Christian people of not being, like, a person. persecuted group or like a group that that feels like they they need to make like no one very few

Christian people are like if we don't celebrate Christmas then like no one might celebrate Christmas or like right you know what I mean there's very few of us left and right we it's on us to continue like the Christmas like no one feels that way who celebrates Christmas right so I do understand why like it is different but I remember kind of kind of saying to him about this topic like it's kind of just like something that he doesn't like so I'm omitting it it doesn't it's not like going to come to the apartment he's not going to see it if he'd rather not hear it why don't I just like leave it out and that made me think like do I do that with a lot of things do I just like omit things that people don't want to hear and like yes you do that with a lot of

things I guess so that's a not not you personally but I think a lot of people do You know, like you just don't, especially when you have family members that are very emotional and express their emotions freely, you want to just avoid that. So I see what you're saying. But I could see what he's saying. Like he doesn't want, you're developing a new tradition together and he wants you to feel like proud or not at least not like you're hiding. Right. What you two are doing together. Yeah. And it's funny. It's like this illicit thing like we have. But I don't know. Who's right? All right. So what would you do today or this year? Would you post your tree on Instagram or still no? Well, now I can't post it because I roast Christmas trees so I can't ever show minds because it will be under the most massive scrutiny. So for that reason alone, I don't post the tree. Your air of perfection will be destroyed if anyone sees what your tree actually looks like. Exactly. I'm going to be like just ruthlessly torn apart, which rightfully so. So I don't post it for that reason. But if I'm talking to him, yeah, I'm not like, I'm not really mentioning it. I'm not

making it. Are you asking me my opinion? I guess so. Yes, I am. I do think that, and this is different than like me and Jeff, we are two Jews that have a Christmas tree, right? Which is weird, but we just both like it and the kids like it. So we do it. But you married someone who celebrates Christmas, who's Christian, who likes that. And I do think that it would be nice for you to be able to have a frank conversation with your dad where you say, kind of like, it's time that you accept that this is the person that I married. And I, because I am his wife and we have, you know, this family unit, we are going to

create our own new traditions that combine our two cultures and this is what we're doing. And he's going to have to just come to terms with that. Because that's just where you are. and him pretending that that doesn't exist is he's living in his own fantasy world if he thinks that you're not going to be celebrating Christmas. I mean, you're married to, you know, man who grew up celebrating Christmas and it's super fun, cool holiday that everybody loves. So it would be weird if you didn't.

So it's almost like helping him. You're helping him, like, accept it. By you hiding it from him, you're not helping yourself and you're also not helping him have to learn to come to terms with it. That's very true. I should, uh, that's a very good point. I think you should come out of the box with the Christmas card of the two of you right in front of the tree. Wow. Getting hard palpitations. And it's so weird because it's like, I don't even really care if he's like that upset like in theory, but I think it's like a, it's like one of those like childhood things. And then it brings me back to like,

okay, like, why do I do this thing where I edit what I tell people so that they can hear things that they want to hear. And it's like, oh, because my parents would always, like, break out if they heard that the other parent was, like, doing, like, if they, they were, like, excited to, like, pounce on, like, a negative thing that the other parent was doing. So I just, like, didn't tell them things. Right. So it's really very adaptive. It is. It's adaptive and it's normal. I'm not saying there's something wrong with you, but I do think if you want to work on yourself and you want to push yourself out of that box, you know, that childhood trauma-esque box, this might be a good, like little one to start with.

Or maybe it wouldn't be so little. I don't know. I mean, you did the hard part already. You married someone that wasn't Jewish. That's true. You did that. That's the big thing. Big, beautiful wedding.

And everyone loved it and was there. And it was awesome. And everyone came and was happy for you. So the Christmas tree is like a drop in the bucket. That's true. All right. Maybe I'm going to do that. I'll let you know how it goes.

Yeah. Let us know. We're waiting. Or maybe you'll hear about it. Because it's our family. I probably will. Yeah, we'll get through the great fine. But yeah, let's get into this week's email.

If you guys have an email you want to send into the podcast, you can email oversharing at Betches.com. You can leave us a voicemail at 646363, 6294. Again, thank you for rating, reviewing, and subscribing. We love reading the reviews. Love, love, love it. And they've been so good. And thank you so much.

So leave us a five-star review as a holiday gift to this podcast. So we can keep. doing what we do. I could read the first email. Should I do it? Yeah, go for it. Okay. Hi, over sharing crew, love the pod, the episode about rejection and the whole idea of telling people about something exciting in your life, only to have to tell them you didn't get it, got me thinking. I live in a world of reality more than this idea of saying something is going to happen will magically manifest it to happen. I don't understand how people can post about how they'll live in this house or people say they're going to have insert job by age 30 and then that actually leads them to do those things.

like what? I can barely tell people I'm excited to go on a trip because if the flight gets canceled or I get sick or insert a million other things that can happen. But once I'm on the plane, I'll be excited. This idea of manifesting stood out more recently to me when my sister said she was going to San Francisco for her birthday before she even had tickets. I wanted to shush her so it was like it wouldn't be jinx or something. I've also had so many times in my life where I applied for something and told people I was excited only to be let down when I didn't get it. And then to live that over and over every time someone asked. That feeling stinks. Most recently, it's been happening with house hunting. So now I don't tell people things until they happen. I loved what Jordana shared of how this

hesitancy of telling people things stems from a place of embarrassment. I never thought about it that way and it helped put it in a new light for me. I guess I was just wondering if you had any advice when it comes to manifesting versus reality. To me, it seems like manifesting is everywhere I look and I'm not sure I can hop on the hope train. Thanks for everything you do. Best, I will won't even manifest that you'll read this email, Betch. Well, she could have manifested it. Yes. We did it. Here we are. I really like this email. Same. It is a really interesting concept, because on the one side, there's like this superstitious, don't say it, or you'll jinx it, like, don't even speak it mindset. And then on the other side, there's this concept of manifesting something,

which I think came from that book, or at least it blew up. The secret. Right. It was, you know, this has been a thing for a long time, but that kind of blew it up and, you know, helped people lean into manifesting. What I see the differences here is that manifesting isn't just, or at least the way I conceptualized manifesting, isn't just like saying something is going to happen, putting it, putting up an Instagram post or speaking it aloud once or twice. Manifesting is essentially the same thing that we talk about, which is why I love this question, because manifesting is really creating an intention, right? Figuring out what it is that you want in the first place. That's like half the battle to sit down and ask yourself like, what do I want to manifest? What is it that I

really want? And then setting an intention for what you want. And then the other piece is like this repetitive, like we've always talked about on here, if you want to shift your mind, you can't just like say it once or like think it once you have to put in the work which is like every time you find yourself getting worked up or stressed or fearful that something's not going to happen you come back to your intention you come back to your manifestation you put that out into the world kind of thing in those moments frequently often manifesting this thing so this isn't it's not going to help if it's just like a one-off, like you're throwing a coin into a fountain and making a wish. We all know that's not going to work, but it really genuinely could help

if 10, 15, 20 times throughout your day, you're becoming aware of your intention or your manifestation. It's kind of semantics. Right. And you're taking the next action towards that, right? So it's not just speaking it. It's speaking it. And then what does speaking it do? What does thinking about it do? It actually then ends up changing your behavior because you're more leaning into that thing instead of leaning into the opposite, which is, oh, my life sucks or this is never going to work out. Or I'm just going to go to sleep or I'm just going to have a drink or, you know, whatever the opposite of manifesting would look like.

I kind of agree. And I tend to be like, have like a high bullshit detector about like. kind of things that seem a little too woo-woo. Right. And I think the secret sort of borders on that, just like the book. What you're saying to me sounds a lot more logical. Right. In the way where it's like, oh, it's not like this magic thing where like, if you see it,

they will come or something like that. Right. It does seem like that is actually like a practical, like science-based thing to getting way to get what you want. Maybe with, again, you can, I think you can flavor it with some woo-woo. type tonage and manifesting itself, the word kind of leans into that. But if you almost change it, kind of like what you're saying, to practice. Yes. Like change manifest to practice, it doesn't feel as absurd. I agree. It's the idea that you just speak something into the universe and it's going to

happen. I agree. I think that that's nonsense also. I think you have to have this intention, which changes your mindset. And then you have to have directed. action behind it. And that's how the concept of the secret is sort of that your mind can influence the world around you. Right. That's like the idea that if you think something, it's going to influence the world. That in and of itself isn't true if you were sitting in a chair for the rest of your life doing nothing but thinking. But you take that mindset with you and you go out into the world with it and then you do things differently. And that can actually make real change. So is the manifesting about the outcome or is it about the like the mindset because let's let's take a good example and I can see because

one where I in practice could see where the the writer of the email is coming from. Let's say you're like, okay, I have, I've been on two dates with this guy and it's gone really well. And so I'm manifesting that this turns into a relationship. Right. Right. So I'm manifesting just your tone right there is really manifesting the, uh, so I'm manifesting that. I'm going to tell all my friends that like this is going to be my boyfriend because I've manifested it. We've been on two dates. And I'm acting as if it's what I want is already here, which I again, I think of manifesting sort of like the sister saying I are like I'm going to San Francisco without tickets. Right. This is going to be my boyfriend. And then he stops answering your text.

Right. Right. So what do you do in that manifesting scenario of or is that is that someone using manifesting in the wrong way. That's what I would say. I think that there's, it's almost like, I can't think, I don't know if you could think of a good analogy, but it's almost like you're just doing the surface of it, just saying it to your friends. That's, that's easy. That's almost like the magic part that you think, okay, if I speak this out loud, if you're

telling your friends that this is going to be your boyfriend and then within your own mindset throughout the day or throughout, you know, the weeks and the moments of your life when you're getting anxious or you're getting worked up or whatever. I think it could help prevent you from doing like a self-sabotage thing where you're so afraid that it's not going to be your boyfriend that you end up being like clingy or overbearing or too standoffish. I think sometimes people play too hard to get and then the guy thinks they're not interested and then it fizzles. So I do think that if you're taking that into your the rest of your day, weak interactions with this person, I do think it could be helpful

because then you're not leading with fear. You're leading with optimism. You're leading with positive energy. So I think the way that this would be helpful is that it's removing the fear a little bit. Okay. So again, I don't think that, and I'm not even the biggest, you know, believer in, I'm going to get a big house, so I'm going to get a big house. I think it's more about I'm going to, like, changing your manifestation to be about your own mindset rather than like these outcomes. Outcomes. So that's my personal way that I would use manifestation.

But I do think that it could be helpful just by basis of removing the fear and getting you out of this like fight or flight mode. So what happens? And I spoke to you about this over the weekend and we could talk more about it. But it's kind of like when you're in this fearful state, When you're leading from a place of anxiety and fear, your sympathetic nervous system, which is like that, you know, the fight or flight part of your body is very activated. And when that's activated, you're actually not thinking as clearly as you are when you're calm. So just kind of leaning into something that helps you feel more trusting, that helps you feel more positive, that helps you feel more calm and leaning away from like that fearful part of you that's like preparing for the worst. right like you might do if you have two good dates you might have been like whatever this isn't going to work out i'm not getting myself excited yeah and that mindset might lead you to have a little bit

more physical activation in your body like nervousness or fear i think throughout humankind the idea of having faith in something like just it just brings us a sense of calm that i think then ends up helping us make better actual choices yeah i agree with that like you said i think it's better when it's not so specifically outcome-based and more, like you said, like, trust. So it's like instead of like, and he's going to be my boyfriend, it's like, and I will meet someone eventually who like I will be with. Yes. That I agree is better.

Yes. I trust that like I, this is like that in the end, like it's going to work out. And like I feel a calmness around the fact that like I will meet someone. and if it's this person great and if it's not, it will be the next one. And like, that's the kind of attitude like you said that would probably make you a better dater. Yes, I totally agree. So I, to answer this reader's question, I don't think this stuff works if it's like, I'm going to get a Lamborghini. Like, I just, you know, I don't think that that it's going to work like that. But I think if you tweak it to a mindset, you know, that's going to help you achieve

what you want, I really do think that your thoughts, and I've said this a million, times on here. Your thoughts, what you pay attention to in your mind is where your reality lives. So if your thoughts are in a positive direction and are in a calming, soothing trust, then that's where you're going to live. And that is naturally going to be a better existence, whether it means a Lamborghini or a partner or a house or just peace in your own mind is going to lead to better outcomes than living in fear and preparing for the worst, which I think is kind of what a lot of people do. They don't want to say they're like ready for the bad thing to happen. I knew that was, I knew that that was going to happen. I knew he wasn't going to call me back. You know,

I told you he wasn't going to, you know. And you think of that as protective. Right. But I do kind of agree. It's like it's better to just, you can be disappointed while still feeling like you're, you're working towards something bigger. Like, again, like, I don't think the manifesting thing is like success versus failure. Totally. But that was interesting to me because I was, I definitely like have felt like the listener. So for all the, uh, the haters out there, this was like me, this was a good one. This is something I do see a lot in therapy.

And this is one of the things that I think prevents a lot of people from making progress in therapy is there like attachment to I'm not going to bullshit myself. It's like you ever play the Ouija board when you're a kid little kid? Yeah, once or twice. I think that was more your generation. Yeah, maybe it was like an older thing. But it's almost like if you resist it and the whole time you're saying this is bullshit, this is bullshit, this is bullshit. You're not going to get anything out of it. But if you're kind of open minded to the idea, it just opens your mind. enough to allow yourself to change your mindset and your perspective. So like if there's somebody with their fingertips on the Ouija board that's like not into it and thinks it's nonsense, you're not

going to get anything. But if everyone's kind of like, all right, maybe, you know, like you're kind of open to the idea that you're going to connect with the spirit, then you're just a little bit less guarded and more open to changing your perspective. And that's what therapy is all about, changing your perspective. So people come in and they're unwilling to, they're like, nope, this is the reality. I'm not willing to change. And then that's really hard because then you're not going to change. I don't know. I kind of feel like that's how you join a cult. Like, okay, we're all into this. Like, we're all going to move our hands. Like, how do you, that's actually a great, because I'm like, I'm kind of like, okay, how do you get, go from there to like,

sucker? Like, do you know what I mean? The person who's like seeing the, the psychic who's like telling them about all this stuff. And it's like, there's a, there's a very thin line between like, I'm open to all these experiences and I'm getting taken for a ride. Yes. I get it. And I wouldn't be giving money. You know, I wouldn't be like, you know, doing anything like that or joining any cults moving in, getting naked, you know. You're just not open-minded. You know, I wouldn't do that. But hypnosis is a perfect example, right? Yeah. Hypnosis is a technical. of thing where you can really tap into your unconscious mind, but you have to be open and willing to do it. You have to allow yourself to break down those barriers of believing that the only

thing that's real is what we see in front of us. Like what the evidence shows, what we can see and observe with our five senses is the only thing that exists in this universe. And that's just not true. Like I always talk to my kids about like the example I use with them is magnets, right? Like there's this force that we cannot see with our eyes, but it exists. But you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Same thing like with tapping into your unconscious mind. If you can break down that wall and allow yourself to believe that there might be a little bit more there than what meets the eye, it just opens you up a little bit to having a new experience and tapping into a new. of thought. Right. It kind of reminds me of that ketamine thing. Exactly. Exactly.

Down the ego. Yes. There's stuff going on in our minds that we are so tunnel vision on and we've created so many walls and defenses and boundaries to protect us, but they also keep us very trapped in this reality-based. There's only one way. I'm going to think the same thing today that I thought yesterday because it makes me feel safe and in control. And it really robs us from a whole new world of experience. Yeah. So that's enlightening. Take it or leave it. No, I think it's, I think it's like, it's interesting. And it's funny because I feel like it's a spectrum of like openness. And I think it's nice to, you don't have to be like, again, signing up for like the magical mystery tour or whatever. But I do think, I mean, I find that again, because I think of myself as someone who's like kind of

cynical about these things, but I do think in recent years I've moved over like just a tiny bit. Like I still think astrology is bullshit. Right. But I think the idea of kind of like what you're saying, something that can like open your mind or let your own ego down is like, I like the area where like science and like hope kind of can meet. Me too. That's my favorite place to live where there's like these little bits of evidence. Right. There's more out there than what we realize.

very exciting to me. Like I literally get like a jolt when I think about finding any types of bits of proof that there's something more than what we have seen here on earth. Yeah. With our, with our limited capacity of our own human body. Like there's radio signals. That's why we're doing this podcast right now. There's all these invisible waves flying around us right now that allow us to connect virtually. Like someone would say this was witchcraft in a different I saw this one years ago. Totally.

All right. Let's do a betchesist. Do you want to read it? Yeah, I'll read it. Hi, Dredana and Dr. Naomi. I'm a big fan of your podcast and I'm in desperate need of some advice. Some background info.

My husband and I have been together for six years and I've always enjoyed being around his family and have grown close with his mom. They live out of town, so we only see them four to five times a year. The issue is this. About a year ago, the family learned that his dad was having an affair. Despite telling his parents that we want to be left out of their marriage issues as much as possible, we were both told every detail of the affair.

Over the past year, they've been going to counseling and have been on again, off again. His mom has reached out to me for support during the times that they were separated, only to act as though everything was quote unquote back to normal when they were back together. We will be traveling to visit them over the holidays, and as of right now, they are back together. I'm really struggling because while I know my mother-in-law is not perfect, my father-in-law is clearly in the wrong here and I'm uncomfortable being around him and ignoring the enormous elephant in the room. However, seeing as it's my husband's family, I don't feel like it's my place to really say anything or have an opinion. My husband feels the same way that I do, but isn't the

confrontational type and is mostly just sad that this is all happened. How do I handle this going forward sincerely a not looking forward to the holidays betch? This is very interesting one. I wasn't like even fully sure about what the right move was here because on the one hand it's like the mother-in-law is reaching out to her for support so she sort of like made it her business in a way right but on the other hand it's like this isn't really her fight like her thing and it's also not her family so you get the two benefits of like totally of that in terms of like morally I don't think she really has to do anything but I could see where she'd want to I don't know what did you think So I think that the big issue is it's hard for her to be around the father-in-law probably without feeling like anger or disdain or because she knows all the details, which is probably why they asked to not hear the details so they could just ignorance is bliss, go and enjoy the holidays.

But I will say as a couples therapist who deals with a lot of affairs and couples that are trying to repair after an affair, the fact that they're in counseling, I think changes this a bit. If this was sort of like he did this, the mother-in-law just swept it under the rug and they watched her in a lot of pain and now they're back together as if nothing happened. I think that would be a little bit of a different story. What it sounds like is they're in therapy

and they're working on it. And part of the process of healing from an affair is it's not a straight line. It's not like you go into your first therapy session and everything gets better and better and better. each time you go and you know you kind of are on an upward trajectory it's almost like dealing with recovery from a substance abuse issue where it's like okay things get good they get a little better and then they get bad and something happens and there's like a bit of a relapse or and i'm not saying

a relapse in like infidelity behavior but a relapse in connection or a relapse in anger yeah anger right like i've said this before on here like you could be doing great and then you watch a movie where something looks exactly like what your situation look like, and now she can't stand the look of his face again. She's telling him, get out of here. I can't look at you, leave. He's getting annoyed, that she's not over it yet. You know, you said you were going to work on this.

Why are we even bothering? Like, there's this whole cycle that happens, and it's almost like, that's like the low relapse point where then you have to kind of reset, go back to another therapy session. He has to learn to lean in and tolerate that she's never going to. you know, be over it. She's never going to not think about it anymore. So recovering from an

affair is a whole process. So I think if she can go into this and looking at it as saying they're working on it and maybe when she's getting these phone calls from the mother-in-law, it's like during one of these relapse periods where, you know, they're struggling. But then obviously, if they're back together, they're back on a better track and they're working on it. So maybe if she could focus on that. I agree. I think it brings me back to that, you know, what you always say, what I've learned from doing the show with you is like the idea of like your feelings are not like who you are. They're not like a permanent sense of you. So in one moment, yeah, you could. And that goes for anything you're dealing with. Like in one moment, yeah, you feel okay.

You feel good about it. And the next moment, you're kind of annoyed and pissed off. So it's kind of like, so what is your obligation to someone who's feeling that way, right? Is it to. kind of just like go with whatever because the victim is like the mom right here. I mean, I guess it's kind of the rest of the family in some ways, but the primary victim is clearly the mom. So I guess like the best way to support the mom is, is it to support whatever emotion she happens to be feeling that day? Yeah. I mean, I think if this daughter-in-law has the emotional space to do that and can not have it affecting her negatively, then yeah, that would be great for her to be able to say, okay, she must have been triggered by something.

She's feeling angry again. I'm going to listen to her. I'm going to be supportive of her, knowing that this is a temporary, it's almost like, I'm sure we've all had that friend that has kind of a shitty boyfriend. And then they come to you and they're like, that's it. We're done.

I'm ending this. I can't take this anymore. And then two days later, they're like posting on Instagram and they're out and they're like having the best time. And you're like, oh, right. It's kind of annoying. I get that it's frustrating because the reason

why it's frustrating is because you are getting invested in the outcome. You have a desire for it to go one way or the other rather than realizing when your friend's reaching out to you, it's not really about the out. You can't control the outcome for that person. They have to be in control of that. And all you're doing for them right there is not coercing them towards an outcome is just not having them be alone in that moment of anger or sadness, whatever it is, just showing them that there is someone that's going to just be with them in that moment. Yeah, and feeling understood. Yes, and have their feelings validated and all of that.

So if you have a friend and you have like a vested interest in the outcome of their decisions, that's going to be very frustrating. Right. It's very hard to, I'm sure, stay neutral. Totally. Yeah. Which is why it's, again, this bigger picture of like, okay, trust, they're going to figure this out.

It might take two months. It might take two years. They're going to, you know, this is their thing. they have to figure it out. All I can do is be there for them when they need it. Or if you can't also, which is another thing. And I do think that this listener has a right to say, I respect which you're going through. I can't imagine how hard this is, but it's just too much for me and my husband to really be involved. So I'm asking you again, please not to involve us in this. If she can't handle the ups and downs of their relationship or being involved in that. It depends how much, you know,

emotional gas you have in the tank. If you have a friend and you just can't, you don't have it within you, then I get that. But it, you know, if you have, that's like part of working on yourself is getting to a place maybe where you can have a little bit of extra emotional energy to put into someone else like this, where you can say, okay, I'm just going to listen. I'm not going to get invested in this. I'm here for you. Yes. Unless you weren't. actual child in the situation, in which case, that to me is a very, like, triggering thing when, like, parents are, like, going to their children for, like, the emotional support. You're saying, like, a minor child.

Like, yes, like a child in, like, let's say this was, let's say the son instead of being an adult married man was, like, 14. A hundred percent. Then that would be, like, highly inappropriate. Even if he felt he did have the emotional capacity. Yes. I totally agree with that, obviously. And even look, even a young adult, like, I don't think it's great to be going to your kids for support in your relationship with their father or mother or whatever it is.

I just think it puts them in the middle, it gives them, like she's saying, too much information. So I don't think, you know, it's not her parents. So maybe the, you know, the daughter-in-law might not be the worst person. But, yeah, I don't think that this is ideal. And I do think she has a right to say we'd really rather not be involved in this. but I think if she is going to be involved, which she already is, and they are going to go to the holidays, which they are, the best thing to do is say they just need to ride out these waves and not take any of these emotions as like an indicator of some fact or truth or whatever. And try to remain neutral, at least throughout like this holiday experience because I think that would probably, right? I mean, I assume that would at least make it go smoother.

Yeah, I mean, if she's not like actively angry at the dad, yeah, I mean, that part is difficult and it's okay for her to feel angry. It's okay for the son to feel angry at the dad. You know, that's all right. I just think that the on again, off again thing is to me, I would try to perceive that as they're working on it, you know, which is not the worst thing. If she was just blindly forgiving him, which maybe would be more angering because then he's just like cheating and getting away with it. getting away with it, yeah. Then I could see it being like really infuriating. But the on again, off again is almost like, okay, she's, you know, expressing herself. She's not a wallflower. She's not just laying down, letting him cheat and taking him back. They're working through this process, which is a good sign. Yeah, I agree. Okay. Well, let us know how it goes. Always fun to go home for the holidays. Yeah. When you have all the dirty details, I could see this being very stressful. it was you, you'd probably like be like your wheelhouse. Oh, well, that's, that was my whole whole problem is I was trying to fix it when maybe back

then I even should have been like, okay, everyone's getting upset. This will pass. You're screaming. Soon you won't be screaming. Much harder to do when it's your family. Yeah, totally. Okay. Let's do some intentions. Get us into that holiday spirit. Okay. Yes. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I love listening to your podcast. I have a close relationship with my sister. and it's nice to hear you all working through the listener issues together. I have some thought pattern slash behaviors that come up a lot and I wanted to write in about. Pattern thoughts. Constantly worrying that something bad is going to happen to someone I love, mostly my husband. He's in good health and everything, but I have constant thoughts about losing him. I lost my dad a couple years ago

and I've had family pass away in the past. Only too suddenly though. So I'm not sure why I fear it so much. Pattern behaviors, constantly asking him, are you okay? To the point where he's getting frustrated. And if something was wrong, I'm not sure he'd even tell me. Hovering a little too much over my kids because I'm afraid some freak accident is going to happen. Fears, that I'll lose him and have to raise my two kids on my own is my main fear. The thought of them having to grow up without him breaks my heart. Goals. To live my life and enjoy my family without these nagging thoughts, I feel like at this point I spend so much time thinking about it. It's taking away the joy I have when I spend time with my family. I'm not sure why it's mainly centered around my husband.

I definitely worry about my kids too and irrationally so, to be honest. I'm a nurse and I feel like I have the opposite mentality of most nurses. I work in critical care and see the worst of the worst that can happen. So my mind automatically goes there when they get sick, et cetera. On top of that, this year has just thrown us some close calls. For example, our vehicle catching fire right next to our house. So I know that has impacted my anxiety as well. I hope that you, read this and I didn't ramble too much. Thanks for all you do. Always worried, Betch. All right. What came to mind for me on this is just that she possibly has some grief that she hasn't really dealt with. I mean, it sounds like she's minimizing a lot of what

she's been through. I don't know if you picked up, you know, almost like she's lost family. You know, I don't know how old she is, but she's lost family in the past and then says only too suddenly. That's a lot. Which is like, that's a big deal. You know? So she's minimizing that. And then she's a critical care nurse on top of it. So she's like every day seeing like the sliver. Yes, the sliver of the worst case scenarios that end up in like the emergency room of like the kids that fall. And instead of just getting up and putting an ice pack on it, they're getting in an ambulance and coming to the hospital. So she's, you know, I think she's exposed to a lot. So I can understand and really validate why she. has these intense fears of losing someone. That's just part, you know, it's a very normal reaction to even having one death. So, you know, she lost her father. I'm assuming she's pretty young and she already lost her dad.

So just that in and of itself can create. Part of, you know, the grief process for a lot of people is you're so afraid of it happening that if you haven't fully processed those feelings of grief, you jump into like, controlling mode. Like how do I prevent this from happening? And that's where I think she is right now. You know, she's just in this place where she's like trying,

spending all of her energy, like preventing terrible things from happening. Yeah. Just exhausting. Would you, I mean, again, I'm not trying to diagnose the person without,

just from one email or without doing that. But to me, this seemed like a very clear candidate for like, perhaps a medication that could help them curb their intrusive thoughts. But maybe that would just be like, putting a Band-Aid on something that's a lot bigger. Yeah, I mean, it depends.

If she hasn't been to grief counseling, that is my first recommendation for her, that she needs to really process through and like let herself feel the feelings of grief. Because what happens is when you're so afraid, like some people, after they lose someone, they don't give themselves enough time to grieve and they just jump into go mode, which I guess I could see you have to do. You have two kids. You can't just lay in bed and cry for two weeks and go to therapy sessions three times a week and deal with your grief. I mean, you can, but you have to have a big support system in order to do that.

So if she didn't really let herself grieve, I think the antidepressant or the anxiety medication or whatever it is might end up stifling that even a little bit for her before she has a chance to really let herself go through it. Like you have to really go through it. And it's so, so, so painful that a lot of people don't want to do it. So they just, you know, pull themselves up and keep on moving. It's funny because it can feel like, okay, why am I going to solve the issue of being like so anxious about death by like talking about death more? Like it seems counterintuitive. Because she's probably like, okay, I think about this all the time. Let me just do things to like try to not think about it.

Right. But what you're saying, I think, is the much more correct way to go about it is to like do it and do it right so that you can think about it less. But like in order to do that, you have to do it, you have to do it right. Again, it's the creating the separation between the thoughts and the feelings. You can be thinking. I always say, thinking is like endless, endless. But feeling typically comes more in waves. It comes and it goes. So the feeling is probably a lot more intense, like the depth of it and the pain of it is a lot more intense, but it's going to come in waves as opposed to the thinking, which doesn't feel as like gut wrenching and like heart ripping. But it will never stop because you're not really feeling it. Once you allow yourself to feel it, it's almost like the fear of feeling that goes away. It's like the cure, if you're afraid of heights, in therapy, we do something called systematic desensitization, which is like whatever your phobia is. If you have a phobia, you start exposing yourself to like small, you know, bits of the phobia. You know, like if you're

afraid of spiders, you start first saying the word spider and calming and, you know, and just riding out the wave of anxiety. And then you look at a picture of a spider and you ride out that wave. And then you look at a spider on TV, you know, et cetera, et cetera, until at some point you can have a real live spider in front of you and kind of remain calm. And I think with these issues of deep pain, sometimes if you don't expose yourself to it, you're always living in fear of like, what if I fall apart? What if I can't function as a mother? What if I can't function as a nurse? What if I let this pain in, I'm going to fall to pieces. And so she's not really feeling that, but she's also, like, just living with this perpetual anxiety of avoiding that pain, which I feel for her.

This is the worst. It's the worst. Because if she's doing this the right way, she's in for some pain, you know, but ultimately at the end, I think she's going to get her life back. Right. So she should definitely go to therapy, but in the meantime, do we have an intention for her potentially while she finds a therapist. Yes. So I think if she's willing to take our advice, the intention that I wrote for her was, I intend to allow myself to ride the waves of grief rather than avoiding them.

So when she has that feeling of whatever comes up, that she's afraid she's going to lose her husband or whatever, like to just allow that to live in her body as a real feeling rather than jumping to, well, let me call him and see if he's okay, or let me, you know, text him, or let me, you know, kind of do this thing to soothe myself without really allowing the deep feeling in. So allowing herself to let in these waves of grief, to ride the waves of grief rather than avoiding the waves of grief. That's what I think would be a helpful intention for her. And I don't envy her.

I do have a feeling that she's been through a lot more than she's willing to admit. Yeah. Well, good luck. Yeah. Good luck. I hope you can give yourself permission to fall apart a little bit. That's what I think also there's part of this. That she's a nurse. She has to take care of people. She has kids. Like I think she's used to just like, you know, she probably sees horrible things. And then she's like, okay, next. Yeah. Well, I mean, it kind of goes back to this thing of like, it's almost like, better to feel more intensely for a shorter period of time than live for years with like a latent feeling of like unease, which is always kind of like bearable, but never like always feels like slightly shitty as opposed to a shorter period where maybe you feel shittier than you

do over the course of those months, but it lasts for less time because you're actually going like through it. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And that's why I think after the death of a parent or, you know, that's a big deal. Like, you have to give yourself time, a lot of time to let yourself fall apart. So you can base that fear of like, I'm not going to die from this. I'm not going to never get out of bed again. But yeah, maybe you have, you know, two weeks or a month or like some genuine period of time where you're just letting yourself really have that. Let's do some trigger. All right, let's do some triggered. Should I read the first one? Yeah, go for it. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I love this podcast and all that you do. I have a triggered scenario for you.

I'm 27 and my family keeps trying to set me up with people that don't make any sense. For example, my grandma will not stop talking about how I should go on a date with the grandson of a lady who works at the local bakery. My grandma's never met this person and the boy lives in Kentucky, but will be in town for the holidays. Or my mom has a friend of a friend who knows someone in my city. I grew up in a small town in Florida. My family still lives there. I live in a larger New England city. Whenever I push back on these setups, asking for any details about these people in addition to their gender and age, I am met with the good old, what do you have to lose? Just try. You never know. I don't want to be closed-minded, but I really don't want to waste my time when I'm visiting my family

going on a first date that I'm not excited about because I don't know anything about them. For context, my sister is 25, married with a baby, and my parents were my age when I was born. While I would genuinely like to find a partner, I am not in so much of a rush where I'm going on dates without any sort of information about whether or not we have anything in common. I have a great job, really fun hobbies, and I'm really happy with my life. I'm dating in my city and it's going far better for me than I was dating in Florida, but there's still the usual frustrations of mid to late 20s dating where it's rare for something to get off the ground. How triggered should I be about this? I know my family is coming from a place of wanting me to be happy, but whenever

I push back on one of these situations, there's always an argument about how I'm closed-minded and I'm not giving people enough of a chance. It's so frustrating and exhausting. I feel like they think I'm not trying hard enough and they judge me when I have any feedback. I feel like the underlying argument is this is why you're single. You're too picky. If you followed our directions, you would be happy. Jordana, I know this has come up with Jared on you up. So I'm curious about your thoughts here. thank you so much for your time and happy holidays. Yeah, this is, I think this is fairly triggering. I used to find this kind of annoying.

I didn't get it that much, but I've definitely got, I feel like when you got a setup from a parent, it's like, this person has a pulse. You have a pulse. Like, why wouldn't you be great together? And I feel like when someone has that attitude of like, just go, it's kind of like the setup is more for them than it is for you. Right.

I feel like they've told the person that like they've gotten like a little high off of like making this arrangement. And so it's like, go do it so that I can like... It's like a little juice in my life. It's like a little, you know, excitement for me to follow up and see if this works. Yeah. I also think the other triggering issue is that the idea that you're single because you're too picky and it's your fault and you're doing something wrong. Right. And, you know, it just gets, I think, in people's heads that if they don't want to go out with someone because they don't see any connection or there's no real match that that's the reason why they're single and they should take any and every date in order to prove to themselves

and everyone else that they're really trying. Right. Which to me is just like us, I think it's more of a sign of low self-worth to go on any date that's presented to you than to critically think about if the person would be worth your time, which is a limited resource. Yeah. I agree. I see this a lot. I think there is this thing between like parents and their adult single children where it's almost like a vicious cycle where, you know, the kids don't really want to tell their parents all the details because they don't want to hear their critiques or their opinions. So they sometimes like won't tell them a lot. And then the parents don't know or don't believe that they're trying. And then it becomes the parents fear that their child will be like alone forever.

Yes, yes. And it's because they don't care enough or they're not really trying or when like their way of trying is being somewhat selective and conserving their energy and not going on these dates where they feel like dejected afterwards because it was just so miserable and not a match and they end up feeling worse about it. So I think this dynamic is kind of common and I could see this being triggering for all of the above reasons. Yeah. What would you say to your parents in this? came up again. Yeah, I mean, I think at some point. Sorry, Grandma. I'm not going out with the Baker's grandson. Yeah, Jeff always tells me about his grandma that tried to set him up with this girl, and he was, she led into it saying, she is a beautiful figure. She has a beautiful figure. And he was like, I know what that means. He's like, I showed up to the date and she had big boobs, and that was pretty much the extent of the, of the match. Of the match. Yes. That was the entire qualifying factor.

I think at some point you can just nicely ask them to trust that you're doing all the things that you do want, if you do want to find a partner, which it sounds like she does, I really do want to find someone. I'm doing it the best way I can and the best way that I know how. And it would mean so much to me if you could just trust me in that. Right. And I'll let you know if a setup would be something I'd be interested in. I'll definitely.

Yes. Or even if it sounds like she's open to the setup, but she could also set boundaries where it's like, if you want to set me up with someone, I need a photo. I need to know like some of their interests. And where they live. Need to know where they live.

Right. Like these are the basic things that I would need to know before I'd be willing to spend my time that she said she has a beautiful, wonderful, happy, full life. So she's not going to go out with some friends at night or she's not going to enjoy her time. She needs to know at least some. general basics.

Yeah. And again, if you're feeling triggered, I would just remember that, like, this thing is more about, like, they're kind of, like, again, high off of the idea of, okay, I found one. Now you do the work, and I'll get to just, like, reap the benefits of hearing about how this one. You can be in the uncomfortable situation where you have to sit on this date. And it's also, like, it's helpful for them. So I'm not saying they're selfish because they're not. I know that they want the best for her, but it's like something for her to talk about with her friend. It's a way to meet people. It's a way to like kibbits, as they say at the bakery. Right. I mean, it's kind of like, let's say she was looking for a job.

And then they were like, I have this job. Go on the interview. It's for like a rocket scientist. Like, just go on the interview. Like, what do you have to lose? Like, no, that's not my skill set. I'm not going to get the job. I'm going to be wasted. Like, it doesn't mean I'm not trying. Right. Because I'm not trying to go. on this interview for a job that doesn't interest me that I'm not qualified for and that is in a different state. Right. Totally.

So what do you give this? I would give it, it's happened to me, so I would give it like a six. I find it very annoying. Yeah, I could see that. And it also just makes you feel a little invisible, you know, like they're not even caring who you are. Yes. That's the worst part.

It's like, you don't even know me. Right. Because if you knew me, you'd know that this isn't, it's like when someone buys you a bad gift, which is worse than almost not getting a gift because you're like, this gift shows that you don't even have any idea what I like or who I am or what I'm interested in. Totally. And you've always been good about that because I know that. Do I don't get gifts?

No, no, no, no. I mean, good at gifts, but good at like setting people up appropriately. You know, like, not sure you have, you know a lot of people. You know a lot of single men. You know a lot of single women. and you're not just like sticking them together because they're the same age and live in the same place and are both like attractive. Right. You know, you're kind of like, I want it.

I actually pay attention to who you are and like what might be a good match for you. Interest and personality wise. So I give you credit there. Thank you. Because you're not just like riding this wave of like, ooh, a little juicy gossip. I'll just put these two together and then watch the fireworks. Yeah. And I mean, I do have that feeling, but only when I'm like, I actually think that this has some potential.

Right. So I get it. Anyway, let's do one more. Hello, love the podcast and it's becoming my new favorite. So my triggered scenario is about Christmas brunch. My husband's family always does their Christmas on Christmas Eve, so Christmas Day is open to do something with my family. It's been this way for years. This year, I decided to plan a big brunch out at a very nice restaurant with my family. My mother-in-law did not have any plans for Christmas, so I extended the invitation to brunch with us and she agreed. She then invited my sister-in-law and her family and her in-laws, which is fine, the more the merrier. I work Christmas Day until 1230, so I communicated to everyone multiple times that the brunch reservation would be at 1 p.m. My sister-in-law texted me and asked for the reservation to be moved to 11 a.m. to accommodate her family and in-laws. I said no, that I work and brunch will be at 1 p.m. She reluctantly still agreed to come, though I never actually invited her myself, triggered. A few days later, my mother-in-law texted me asking me to move the reservation because it seems to work better for everyone,

which it wouldn't because I work until 12.30 p.m. Like, I've communicated multiple times. I texted her back informing her brunch would be at 1 p.m. but if she would like to come over after, we would be happy to have her. She also reluctantly still agreed to come. I'm triggered because I invited my mother-in-law because I didn't want her to be alone on Christmas. She invited my sister-in-law and her family and now they're wanting me to change things to accommodate them.

It's like, I invited you. Thank you, a cranky Christmas bet. sounds like how any event in our family is going. Yeah, this is annoying. I would be annoyed by this. I could see why this is triggering. It's like how many times I have to say it? I literally cannot attend.

I'm the one who's coordinating this and I cannot be there until one. So stop suggesting this because it's slightly more convenient for you. And it's like, brood, if you're invited to something, you're not trying to like, if I text someone like, oh, I know your wedding's. four but like I can't get there till five so like could you change it till five like I'm obviously this is a little lower lift but if I were her I'd also be annoyed it's like oh if I knew you could like hang out with your with your daughter and her whole family and the in-laws like maybe I wouldn't have even invited you in the first place right and simplified the whole thing yeah I could see

why this is really annoying and she's doing a good job she exactly she just you know she keeps reiterating this. It's very annoying, but I think it's actually probably a good boundary that she's setting that she just kind of keeps nicely saying no. And hopefully they'll realize that like this isn't going to change and it's okay. She might want to put it out there. Like it's okay if you can't make it. You know, like they might feel like maybe they want to have an early Christmas dinner so they don't want to have brunch at one or whatever it is and it doesn't work out for them. That's fine. We saw you last night. Merry Christmas. I understand. Yes. I could see why this is annoying. And also she already has to like work on Christmas, which is annoying and then has to deal with

this. So yeah, keep holding your ground. And I would offer them an out maybe. Yeah. If they bring it up again, I would be like, we actually really can't do any time before then, again, because I work. But if you can't come, it's totally fine. We'll see you the night before. And like, I won't be offended at all. Yes. You know, I'm thinking about why this is, because for me, like, I'm rating this high. I just find this really annoying that they keep pushing it when she's been, I guess it's that feeling of like somebody like pushing your boundaries. Like keep pushing your boundaries. Well, to me, maybe it's like a, like, a, like, lack of communicate. I would,

I'm kind of like, who would do this? This is so rude. But then I'm like, clearly there's like a miscommunication. I imagine like the mother-in-law was like, almost maybe phrased it as like her thing. Like,

oh, we're all going to go and like that they're going to be there. And like, right. Like maybe she didn't say like the person who wrote this email invited us all to their like it could have been in the way it was pitch that made the sister-in-law so comfortable suggesting the change. Right.

Yeah. I'm not sure. Or maybe they really just don't want to do it. And they're feeling like kind of compelled to do it. And they're like, I don't even want to do this anyway. And now it's like at this time that's not really convenient. So again, maybe if you allowed them to say no, then they would just quietly go away. Giving out every time. Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, what would you give this? One to ten? I think it's a seven. I think it's very annoying. Yeah. I agree. This is very annoying. Like, no means no. That's it.

And she has a great reason. Even if she didn't have a reason, and this was just her plan with her family that they decided they wanted to do it at one. Because that's just what they were doing. That would be reason enough, let alone, like, I literally can't be there. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, that's what I'm saying. It's like you've told them the reason and they keep trying to change.

Yeah. It's just annoying. I feel you. I feel you. I feel you cranky Christmas bed. Find that Christmas cheer. Set your boundaries. Stick to them.

Enjoy the brunch. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Marilla-S-Picot, and Rebecca Souselma. Editing by Missileo Perez. Yes, Booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com.

We'll leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.