Oversharing - Help! I Hate My Post-Pregnancy Body

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Jordana and Dr. Naomi kick things off with an update from a listener who previously wrote in about a boyfriend whose behavior was raising some alarm bells. Our Overshare comes from a Betch looking for a sensitive way to announce her pregnancy to friends dealing with infertility. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a mom who is struggling with her post-pregnancy body image. Dr. Naomi writes an intention to help a listener who is repulsed by the idea of her husband using the bathroom. And we’re feeling triggered by emotionally withholding parents and ex-husbands who smoke around the kids. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham and I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And we are back. Another fun week.

We're getting ahead because I'm out next week. But I was so excited to have received an update email from one of our our listeners that we had helped. Yes, I love the update emails. Even when we don't get it exactly right, I still am happy to hear it helps me grow to learn and just to hear how all these stories turn out. So yes, I love getting updates. If we've answered your question, definitely we'd love to hear from you. Tell us how it all turned out this one. Ish, we'll read it to you. Well, we'll give you a little background. There was an episode where a listener wrote in and she said she had a new boyfriend, I think they were dating like three or four months and they were going rock climbing. And her boyfriend,

she basically had overheard. Her boyfriend didn't know she was behind him. Overheard her boyfriend kind of like flirting with the lady behind the desk at the rock climbing place. She said he couldn't go like behind the desk and he said well what's behind there and she said nothing special and he said oh but you're behind there so he was like flirting with the with the lady behind the desk yeah and we basically said if I remember correctly um and we haven't pulled this up so I apologize but I'm pretty sure we said like it's definitely a red flag but like you know it she doesn't have to break up with him over it but it is messed up and you said because again you were you were talking about how it was a new relationship. Sometimes you're just kind of like in that old relationship mode of like you're a little

flirty. But we both said it was not not great that he was doing this while she was there. Like what is he doing when she's not around? Right. So the idea that it was just like him, you know, getting the remnants of his singleness out and perhaps he was really ready for a relationship in a committed way, that didn't turn out to be exactly right. Should we read the update email? Yeah. I'll read it. Okay. Here it goes. Hello, a few months ago, you both helped me with an issue. I submitted and wanted to give an update. To recap, my boyfriend at the time flirted with the front desk girl at a rock climbing gym without realizing me or my friends were there and we overheard the whole interaction. A couple of weeks later, I was using his iPad to take a picture when I went to the camera roll to send it to myself.

there were a bunch of video recordings of nudes sent to him via Snapchat and Instagram. I immediately recognized one of the girls as our co-worker. Not sure if I mentioned before that him and I worked together, but in different departments. I deleted all the images because I felt uncomfortable with the fact that he recorded them in a way so that the people in them wouldn't be notified. After that, sketchy. Oh, gosh. After that, I did some digging on the iPad and found that he had backed up. these videos into his Google Drive in a folder called tax information.

That's insane. I literally have a folder called tax information that has tax information. I mean, here's the thing. It's like if there was any, if there was any guess as to if he thought this was wrong or not, the folder label tax information really does tell you, you know, it's first degree. He knew it was wrong. I'm sorry.

Go on. Totally. while we were in a relationship together and I deleted those as well. When I confronted him, I cannot imagine this confrontation. When I confronted him, I made him go through his phone with me and found nudes in seven different places that I also made him delete. Some of the images he had were of a girl he dated in high school who was 14 at the time. I'm completely disgusted with him and not sure what to do.

I still have to work with him, although not directly, and I'm not even sure if I could report this to HR. He is friends with the HR representative I would report to and she has asked him on a date previously. Plus, it would be his word against mine. This guy really is, I guess he's flirting at work just as much as he is outside of work. Oh my gosh. He is a serial flurter, it sounds like, and more. I let the girls that I recognize know he had their news and that I tried to delete them, but I'm sure he had backups. They confirmed they had no idea he had them since they were sent with the intention and understanding that they would be temporary. The scariest part for me is that he hid all this so well into my face was a complete gentleman and amazing boyfriend. Of course, the rock climbing incident feels like a huge red flag now that should have been a deal breaker,

but he was so good at talking his way out of the situation. I'm glad I found the videos early on into our relationship, but I dread going into work now on the off chance I might see him. So far, I've taken the approach that it's best to cut my losses and be glad it's over. I've blocked him on everything and have not spoken to him since the breakup and I've managed to only see him in the office once. Any advice on what I should do is appreciated. Also, any tips on how I can move forward and heal from this experience. I don't want to date with my guard up and be looking for similar red flags, but how could I not?

Thanks, a betch who will not be mixing business and pleasure in the future. This guy is like an HR nightmare. Oh my gosh. Brutal. I'm so sorry for her. I'm so sorry that you went through this. And for all the women that intended for these photos to be temporary and he's like saving them all over the place on his iPad. Yeah.

That's messed up. And on his tax information, Google stocks. It's so messed up. Like what do you even need to keep these for? And why do you have a girlfriend? one. Right. I mean, one, it's like there's like a, there's issues on so many levels. There's obviously the keeping of photos that were meant to be temporary.

Not okay. The cheating on your girlfriend. Also, not okay. Also, like you're hooked up with how many people at work. Right. Do you think she should tell HR? I feel like part of me is like, okay, these things have not happened during work hours. But I do feel like, you know,

like someone who is hooking up with multiple people at work and who she feels like she can't go to the HR person because she's asked him out are like a whole other HR issue in itself. Right. Yeah, that is the whole thing. The whole dynamic of the whole company seems like weird because the HR person is asking an employee. That seems weird. Although I'm assuming he said no because she doesn't say they went out. It just says she isn't. She doesn't say they went out. It just says she asked him out. And so maybe she would be a little bit more. And also like, is that according to him? He doesn't seem to have the best record of honesty in relationships. Maybe it was. She, they probably hooked up too. This guy sounds like she, he has like a sex addiction.

Yeah, something. There's definitely something up. Um, yeah, I feel really bad for her. And I get the question of like, one, it's at work, which is why you have to be, I'm not saying never date someone at work, but you have to be really, really careful about, I think it's best if you're going to date someone at work to really establish a friendship first and make sure that this is give it some time to develop slowly, make sure this is a person that you really, you know. And even in that case, it gets still not work out. Yes, totally, totally. But I think there's something to be said for resisting the urge to bring it to the next level

until you're like, know the person on a deeper level. Right. You have a better sense of their character. Exactly. Exactly. It's a tough spot. So now she has to see him at work.

And then the bigger issue, I think, of, like, trusting once you've been involved with someone that sounds like really sociopathic in the way that he's, like, being deceitful and holding on to, you know, private information. I don't, I don't know if it's for her to go to HR. Like she told the girls at work. Right. It's probably for them to go to HR if they feel like he really violated their privacy. Her issue is that he cheated on her.

Yeah. That's not really like an HR issue. Right. If he's creating some sort of a hostile work environment, then I think maybe that's more of an HR issue. I don't know what the rules are at your specific company around dating people at work or any of that stuff. Maybe I would look into that.

But I agree. I think it's more on the women that he's done that way. It must be an interesting feeling to be like, okay, you sent nudes to my boyfriend while we were dating, but it was also wrong for him to keep them. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's like probably a lot of feelings that go into that. Yeah, like you can't even trust your coworkers. And yeah, there's a lot of trust broken here. I really do feel for her. The bottom line is, I think sometimes when these types of things happen, we like to go to that part of our brain that's kind of like, okay, this was a dangerous situation.

And then your overactive mind starts to overprotect you of like, how can I prevent this from happening again? Right. And make it feel like I need to be hypervigilant. I need to be more controlling in my next relationship. I need to be more of an investigator. The truth is, this didn't happen because of anything that you did or didn't do. I think it could have happened to anyone.

I don't think there's anything that you necessarily did wrong. Yes, there were some red. flex and I do think it's okay moving forward if she sort of is like I want to lean away from anyone that had there are some people that have that general like flirty vibe. Yeah. In relationship or not in relationship, they just they have like more of a type. She said that. She said that he was able to kind of talk his way out of the rock climbing thing also.

Right. And I'd be willing to guess he's probably good looking, which if all these women are willing to be like sending him nudes, there's something that he's putting out into the world. That's special something. He's got, unfortunately, he's got that special something. So, yeah, you know, I think that you don't, it's okay for you to say like the next time I date someone if I see, like, if they, you know, are meeting my friends for the first time and they're like putting their hands on their shoulder when they're talking to them or they're like just these little things that like, maybe that's not for you. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that you're being, that you're like damaged goods.

I just think some people have a better tolerance for, you know, their partner being a little bit more open with, you know, you know, people in the world and like a little bit more touchy. and a little bit more complimentary and all those things that could add up to quote unquote flirtatious. And some people, it gives them an icky vibe and they're not into it. So I think it's okay that that might be forever

something that is a turnoff for you now. Right. But I also think you have to remind yourself that this is not a situation that you can control, really, which is the hardest part. And also that most people are not like this. I think like, you know, if you have limited dating experiences, the fewer you have, the more significant each one is. So this is like your second boyfriend. I could see how you'd be like,

all men are like this. But as someone who reads a lot of emails and, you know, answers a lot of dating questions. Most people are not like this. But yeah, it sounds like bad luck. Yes, I agree. And it is, it does mean a lot coming from you, I think, because you hear a lot of these stories of, of people doing shady stuff. And having multiple folders of deleted things that are never even deleted, and that's on a different level. Right. Than psychological issues.

Yes. Totally. So I think you have to just, I agree, chalking this up to bad luck, not feeling like there's anything you have to do to prevent this from happening again. the good thing is you ended it, you know, you had the strength to end it. Like we said, he's probably very charming. He's probably very attractive, whatever that is. And you were able to remove yourself from the situation.

So that's the important part, that he wasn't able to somehow like talk his way back in. And I'm going to get help. And I'm never going to do this again. And whatever he could have said to keep you, you were out, which is good. Because breakups are hard. even when the person you're dating is a sociopath. Right. Sometimes especially when the person you're dating is a sociopath.

You know, because it's hard to leave someone who has a certain kind of charm and you kind of like feel like you're, you know, you're the crazy one or something like that. Right. Yes. Totally.

So I would give yourself credit for ending it. I would definitely try to go as cold turkey as you can. If you see him like other way, walk the other way. There's no, this is a type of person where, you want to have very firm boundaries. Like you don't need to engage in small talk. You don't need to have niceties. And you could just be like cold as ice, go the other way, avoid him.

I don't think you need to have anything to do with him. What if he dates someone else at work? Should she tell them what he's done? Oh, gosh. I wouldn't. You know, she's got to like, I guess that person has to find out. Be very ballsy of him to do. There does feel like you always.

Almost, he's like a, like a public threat. Right. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It does feel like you need to like warn the world about this guy. I don't know. I guess we're creating a problem for her that doesn't exist. But I do wonder like what would be the move there.

Yeah. I mean, you know, isn't there a website where people put all there? There's like a Facebook group. It's called Are We Dating the same guy? Okay. But I mean, like I've talked about this with Jared on you up and like my feeling on those groups is like, I think they're good for something like this, but I feel like a lot of the time, they're just used for people who just have like minor negative dating experiences with someone.

Right. Which I don't think is cool, like to have somewhere where like, you know, someone breaks down every little thing you've done potentially wrong in a relationship. But something like this, I think does deserve a warning. This is what that site is made for. Yeah. Right. I definitely, I think it's good for things like this.

But I think, you know, I could see how people feel like, like, I remember. uses the word sociopath after they break up with someone like if someone goes to you i don't think that means you need to put them in a in a group yes i agree yeah it does feel like he is a a public menace but the bottom line is if you're sending nudes especially something with your face in it to someone that you don't really know or trust that is kind of a risk that you're taking yeah that's why i say like spend months with someone seeing how they interact in the world seeing how they treat people. This guy was giving off like skeezy vibes.

It wasn't like he was a perfect sociopath. He was giving off some red flags. I'm not saying you have to be hyper vigilant. But yeah, if you catch your boyfriend flirting, then that's something you have to realize is that that's something that's kind of in him. If everything else seems amazing and perfect, then you want to give it another shot, sure.

But if it's not something that feels comfy for you, I think that, you know, it is worth addressing it, especially if it's early on to kind of be like, I don't really feel super comfy being in a relationship with someone that's this flirty. Right. Yeah. And I mean, you live and you learn. I think that's what she'll take from this relationship, you know. Like there's no, I don't think it's like she hasn't learned any, like she hasn't gotten

anything out of the situation. You get that intel about yourself and about like the world. And I think that's something you could take with you. the next person you're going to, it's not going to happen to you again. I'd be very shocked. Yes, I do not think that I think this was bad luck. I agree. And if and when you get into a new relationship, I think you could just be very open.

And the way that people talk about these types of things is always the best data points. So if you bring up, oh, this flirtatious thing or whatever, and the person gets defensive and irritated and annoyed and doesn't like lean into your insecurity. in a way that feels caretaking and vulnerable and kind, that's a great data point in addition to the offense itself. Although it sounded like this guy did. Like when she said when she brought him up, when she brought up the thing about the rock climbing,

he was like, you know, he wasn't like, I wasn't doing anything. He was like, well, I was, you know, I was single for so long. And like, I just, you know. Right. Like, it does sound like that's sort of like an understanding way. Like he didn't respond in like some huge red flag way.

Right. Yeah, I mean, he does seem like a mastermind. This guy, he's got some kind of a operation going here. You should have just been like, I emailed your tax information folder to your accountant for you because I know that's something that you were. Oh, that would have been great. Yeah. That would have been great. Although someone like spreading it.

Someone like this who's this much of a sociopath would probably be like, oh yeah, he's going to think I'm a stud. Right. That's true. There's no taking him down. Oh, you should have said, yeah, I emailed it to HR so that they could make sure to have your W2 because I figured it was in that. Yes. Yes.

Oh my gosh. That would have been great. Sorry, that's the vindictive side of me. Yes, do it. This type of person is really, uh, thank you for updating us. I'm really sorry that you're, that you had to deal with that. I think bigger, it just feels really unsafe to feel like you are opening up yourself to someone who's capable of doing this.

type of thing. So that's, that's the hardest part. But take it as a fluke and move on. All right. Let's do some emails. All right. Let's jump in. Let's do it. And if you guys have a voicemail you want to leave us, you can call 646363-66.36294. Or you can email oversharing at betches.com with your email. And send us an update. We love a good update, even if we were wrong, but we're usually not. Okay. Yeah, for sure. Dear Dr. Naomi and Jordana, I love your podcast and would love some help slash insight on this situation. I have a toddler and recently found out that I'm expecting our second baby now. I'm so excited and I feel so thankful that I've been able to get pregnant relatively quickly both times. I do not take it lightly at all, especially as I

continue to learn more and more about infertility. So my question, is there a right slash wrong way to let people know that I'm pregnant? I have several friends and coworkers who I know are actively trying to conceive. Just this past month, I spoke with one about her failed IVF treatment and how deeply this has affected her. I frequently think about how unfair it is that I was just able to get pregnant with a few months of trying while others struggle with deep emotional, mental, physical, and financial effects of trying to have a baby. Is there a way that I can bring up that I'm pregnant with minimal hurt? I imagine there will be difficult feelings regardless, but I would love to know if there was a way you would rather hear about a pregnancy. Do I just not tell anyone until I

start showing? Or maybe if it just casually comes up somehow in conversation? I'm not very active on social media, but should I just make a post there in hopes that everyone will see it there? Should I reach out to those I know who are struggling with conceiving individually? Am I overthinking all of this? Thanks for all that you guys do. P.S, I love the intention on the marathon and exercise. It actually reminded me a lot of what it will be like to give birth again and plan to implement that intention as I plan for an unmedicated birth this time.

Good luck. Yeah, I'm going to turn this over to you because I'm sure that you've probably been on this side of this and what do you appreciate or like is it kind of like it doesn't really matter it's going to be no i actually do think it matters you know okay as i think uh i think it's really nice that she's like even thinking about thinking about this totally um i think i so i do i do think anyone who's going through it i think appreciates just being thought of um in like a sensitive way so i think that no matter what she does she's going to be fine just knowing that that's something that she's like sensitive about.

But I would think about it like almost anything else that something that is sensitive to some people. Let's compare it to, you know, you have a friend who was just broken up with and you just and you get engaged. Right. Right. Would you tell her with your social media post? Like, no.

Right. If she was a good friend, no. Right. So I would definitely not do that. I think any, if I found out a good friend of mine was pregnant via Instagram, that would really bother me. Yes. And I think there's no like,

right way to do. I don't think there's a one size fits all. And I don't think that there's like an obvious answer. But I think anything that just shows that you have a sensitivity about it is nice. Okay. So do you think it would be, would you prefer like an individual, you would prefer an individual text that's just telling you, it doesn't have to be like, hey, I, you know, I know you might have some feelings around this. I can totally understand that, but just wanted to let you know, I'm pregnant. I think that's a nice. I think that's a nice text, the one you're just saying. And you could say it without that.

You don't need to like, like to say that for it. But usually the ones I've gotten are usually include some form of that. Right. Which has a. I do think, I think a text is nicer than being told in person because sometimes you're just like a little, it kind of like stings a little bit. And it's nice to be able to process that like on your own while while still feeling like happy for the person.

Like you don't necessarily want the person to. see you're like not immediately thrilled. Yes, I can totally see that. I actually had that experience before I had Lila, who's my first, where I had another friend who got pregnant and I was still trying and we were out to eat. She was so excited to tell me that she was pregnant. And I remember feeling a little like kind of like the wind got knocked out of me and I was trying to stay in the happy vibe.

It was just exactly what you described. It was a little bit. It's tough. It's tough because like you don't want to be, you're not going to be like, you need like, sometimes you just need a second and then you're happy for the person. Right. But it takes you like a second to like get over your own internal. It's obviously not a, it's kind of thing where it's like it's not about you.

So you feel bad making it about yourself. But you immediately obviously just. Yeah. You're an initial instinct just to think about what it means for you or your own feelings of like jealousy or or discomfort. So I think a text is nice. the person can like respond when they when they feel like it they can have like 30 minutes to just like feel a little the way they feel um and that's how I would do it I wouldn't do it I think

it's tough because like you don't want to feel like people are not telling you things because right even though you are sensitive to them so that's what I'm saying it's it's I understand it's tough for other people to tell me because they're like because I don't like when I'm like the last person to know but I also see where it's like if I was pregnant and I was like so excited about being pregnant, I wouldn't be the person that I would want to tell either. Right. I would want to tell the person who was like just had pure excitement and didn't have any other feelings that were like, like, you know, going into their reaction to that. So I understand why I wouldn't be the first, but I do feel like sometimes it can

feel really bad to feel like people are almost like, don't think you can handle it. Yeah. It's like talking, you know, about it without and excluding you from the conversation or. Right. Yeah, that doesn't feel good either. Like you're kind of the last to know because they're avoiding, like, upsetting you. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to be pitied, but you also want people to be like a little sensitive. So it's a tough, I think it's a tough middle ground to go in. And also like all that being said, I think this is the person who's going through its own shit to deal with. So I don't think it's like there needs to be like a huge movement around how to do that. I think most like I've been told every which way and like you get over it. It's not that big of a deal. And I think the understanding that most people. are not trying to like hurt your feelings or being sensitive. I think if you're, you know, if you've been around it long enough, you kind of realize that. Yeah. So I would say, I think a text is nice, gives the person a chance to process on their own, but it also lets you know that like, if they're your good friend that you would have, that you're telling them. Right. And I guess the question is, would it, if someone just wrote, have some news,

I'm pregnant. Would that feel like fine? Or would you like some acknowledgement around like, I get that this news might not be like, might be complicated for you. I think from a good friend, the news feels like you're being seen, like someone who would know that about you.

Right. If it was like an acquaintance or someone like not in like an inner circle, I think that that's fine. And I don't need to like discuss that. Right. Okay. But I think for someone who's like a good friend or like a family member, I think it is nice to have an acknowledgement of like, you know,

the fact that they're going through it and it's a little harder. Just in the same way where it's again, if I had an engagement, I had a friend who was just had just become single. I think I would say like, I understand like it's a hard time for you. But I wanted to let you know this thing. Like I just sort of like a sense of like,

I see you a little bit. Yes. And the other piece I think is also nice. It's kind of like it gives them permission to have their complicated feelings. Like before I even say this, I'm going to let you know that you should not have an expectation, nor do I have an expectation that you're just going to be fully and completely excited and happy for me. Right. So it kind of allows you permission to be like, okay, it's normal that I'm not just like overjoyed right now.

like okay and that's normal and that this person is even like expecting that right yeah so i think it depends on your level of intimacy with the other person it's a tough thing to hear but i think you it's the kind of thing where i've heard it so many times and like i know the more i hear it the bet the easier it gets because i know now my own body and how my own body reacts to it which is like at first it feels like this feeling of like jealousy and like feeling like that old like um survival like mechanistic of feeling like behind and like make you know anxious about that and then like that feeling goes through your body then it leaves and then you're like oh this is so nice that this happened for this other person like I'm like happy for them while still feeling like you can

change it to you can change it to like inspiration a little bit right some ways yeah like you know pregnancies happen every day someone like one day it'll be mine yes yeah yes yes yes yes yes yes Yes, yes. And I really, I love that you, it's probably difficult and I don't, I'm not happy that you're having this experience, but it is sometimes a blessing in disguise to keep seeing your trigger over and over and over again. Like you said, like you can't control the world from triggering you. Right. That you've seen it so many times that you have recognized that pattern of like, okay, the feeling around. rises and then the feeling passes and then this new feeling arises and then and that's a perfect example of anything whether it's like I'm annoyed at my boss or like exactly whatever it is this feeling when you see it enough times and you kind of watch your process through it it's like a pattern the

sun rises the sunsets the sunrises the sunset and I don't think I would get that same feeling if I was like no one ever talked to me about anyone having a baby ever again like right if that was the way the world treated me, I don't think I would like gain that resilience of being like, this is how, like just like you said, like comes at you, you take it in, you learn how to do it. And then every subsequent time is less triggering. Yeah. So I really appreciate this listener for this question. I think this is awesome that she's, it's like really sweet and unique that she's writing in basically about somebody else's, you know, issue and like how to be sent. around it. So yeah. And I think anyone who even thinks of that is just like is not going to do it

wrong. Like it's just to be thoughtful is really nice about anyone going through anything I think too. Totally. Let's do a betchaist. I will read this. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I love the podcast. I've been a listener since the beginning. I find your insights so helpful and your conversation so calming. I'm a mom to two kids, a three and a half year old daughter and a 16-month-old son. Both of them are average size now, but there were very large babies, both around 10 pounds at birth. Needless to say, my pregnant belly was very large both times. We've decided that we don't want to have any more kids and my son weaned off nursing about a month ago. Now that I finally have my body all to myself, I can't help but find myself wanting a tummy tuck

and breast reduction surgery. I've always been curvy and have struggled with body image issues since I can remember. I've wanted a breast reduction since high school and after my pregnancies, I have a very noticeable amount of leftover skin and fat on my belly and the front of my hips that folds over and sags down, what they call an apron belly. Although I've always been curvy and had tummy fat, this body feels very foreign to me. Before having kids, I'd been kickboxing and felt so strong and toned and now everything feels so different. Clothes are uncomfortable and it's annoying to do certain types of exercise like

biking because my knees and thighs squish into my apron belly. It feels like I'm wearing a skin slash fat suit and I want to take it off. Well, I know I would feel better if I got the extra skin removed. Would it make me a hypocrite? I hate diet culture and fat phobia and I honestly never have negative or critical thoughts about other people's bodies. I truly look at other women of all sizes and find them beautiful. I just look in the mirror and don't recognize my body anymore. I feel literally and figuratively weighed down. I love the body positivity, body neutrality movement, but most of the time it just feels like too big a mountain to climb for me. Is getting a tummy tuck being ungrateful to my body that did such amazing things,

growing and feeding two amazing people? Does changing my body set a bad example for my daughter as she grows up. I come from a long line of women who hate their bodies and I'm scared of passing that down to my daughter. I constantly go back and forth in my head with justifications and criticisms until my thoughts are all tangled up. I appreciate any insight or wisdom you have. Thanks for all you do with love, a mom bod-bodge. All right. Interesting one. Yeah. You know, it's tough. It doesn't sound like what's bothering her is weight gain, you know, which is, I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't really matter what it is, but it sounds like it's like this new, like, just come a flap of skin that she has with this discomfort, this uncomfortable piece of skin slash fat slash muscle, whatever's in there that's like

hanging down and like she feels it rubbing against her. But even if it was, like, I just gained weight and I don't really like my body, but I do think they're kind of different. One is like, give it some time. She just stopped nursing her baby. She nursed her baby, I think, for like 15 months, which is a really long time to be kind of like sharing your body with your baby and not, you know, being able to have your body to yourself,

which I get. I think if it was just weight gain, I might be more apt to say, let's give it some time. you're in the thick of it you have two very young kids let's see if you can you know kind of get your life back get in a better routine get healthier again and you know see if this is something that you can do without like a quick fix right however I think this isn't this doesn't sound like something that's going to ever go away like it seems like it's just a leftover from the pregnancy stretched out skin stretched out muscle whatever this is this you know

know, apron belly thing that I don't know that even if she did, you know, kind of exercise more or get, you know, healthier eating habits. I don't think it would change. So that's one factor. The other one is like there seems to be some shame for her around like wanting to change her body. Right. Yeah. And I think that like it's interesting because I do think it makes a difference like how often

you're doing this kind of thing. Right. Like I do think that it seems like it does that something that wouldn't matter, but I actually do think that matters because I think it's like if there's one thing that's really bothering you and even if it doesn't, no one else can see it or no one else cares about it or, but it bothers you. And every time you look in the mirror, it's easy. And there's a there's a solution for it that you know of. And you could do that thing and then love your body. And I could say, how someone would say, well, why can't you love your body? And I could say, well, why can't you love your body? body no matter what. Fine. Be perfect. Whatever. Let's say you're not perfect. Right. You're not perfect. There's something that bothers you. And I think everyone has had something that's bothered them about their face or their body or something. Even men, I'm sure. Yeah. And you could fix it. And then it's done. And then you don't do any. And you don't. And then you're like good. I think that's very different than someone who is like constantly doing procedures in plastic surgery and like constant constant. Because that to me is like a

different thing, which would be different advice in this, in this scenario. In my opinion, like, if there's something that's going to make you feel better, it's going to free up your mental energy, you don't need to, like, bear it if you can get rid of it to prove a point to no one. I totally agree. And I love that take on it. That's kind of like a lot of things there isn't really a quick fix. If this is really going to be a quick fix and not quick, because no surgery.

is quick and it's painful and whatever. But like if this is going to give you back that space in your mind, but I guess that's the question that you have to ask yourself, right? Is like, is this going to be it? Like, am I able to accept and love the rest of myself without this one piece? Because I do think these things do tend to be kind of addictive on what you're describing. Like we can all bring to mind a celebrity that's like addicted to, plastic surgery. Right. Where they start off looking one way and they end up looking totally different

because when you fix one thing, then the next thing seems a lot more apparent. Yeah, it becomes like addictive. Right. Yeah. And I've had that with like, even for example, a small example, but like I've had like sun spots on my face and I get them like freeze, frozen off, whatever that stuff is that they use. Yeah. So and those sunsports. spots bother me so much. And then once they're gone, now I notice like the smaller one next to it that I never noticed before because I was looking at the big one. Right. So now I'm like, oh, I never even noticed that other one there because my mind was so focused on this one. So I can see how if you have a critical lens on your body in general, when you fix this thing, that critical lens is going

to focus on a different thing. And that's where I think that addictive piece comes. Well, did you get The smaller sunspots removed? No, I didn't. I left them alone. That's what I'm saying. Like there is a line. Yes. You have a line.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. I did leave them alone. So yeah, you can kind of, and I'm also like very mindful of like, you know, I was aware of what my mind was doing. Right.

Because I'm aware. Then I'm going to get the smaller ones off and I'm like, oh, that wrinkle there. Now I'm noticing the wrinkle before I was noticing the sunspot. So then it's like you're going, if you're looking to achieve perfection, you're never going to get there. So I love your advice. If you really feel like this is something that, you know, is like a one thing that's really bothering you. And in general, you can have a good mindset about your body. I mean, one of the things that I do in my groups is we do like a mirror. I don't know if I told you about this exercise, but it's like a mirror body image exposure exercise where you basically like stand in

front of the mirror naked, look at your body for however long, 10 minutes or however long you want to do the exercise for, and just notice what your mind does when you're looking at your naked body. Or for some people, some people can't even handle, like, looking at their naked body and they'll do it in a tank top in shorts or a sports bra and whatever, but like, just watching your mind, where does your mind's eye go to that one place that you don't like? Well, if you cover that place, and she can do this exercise to kind of explore this with herself, if she, you know, wears a shirt over the belly piece and she looks at herself in the mirror, where does her mind go? Is she finding another area to criticize? Is she looking at something else with the critical lens?

Like, or can she practice focusing on, oh, I love the way my shoulders look, or I love the color of my hair or I love my long fingers or whatever the things are about herself, is she capable of treating her body kindly in her mind? And if she can, except for this one place, and she, especially it takes practice sometimes too, especially if she comes from a long line of body criticizers. Right. Where that narrative, that dialogue is kind of ingrained into your mind,

that we speak more critically of our bodies than positively, it might take some of this type of mirror image exposure or practice to get to the place where you really feel like, okay, I'm ready to do this because I feel like I'm generally trying to accept my body. I've trained my brain. I've rewired my brain. But this one area is just something that has always bothered me. I'm never, it's never going to be different. And I feel like pretty confident that once I get rid of it, I'll be able to, the idea is to clear your mind. Yeah. Right.

Exactly. And then to like to get to get your mind back, to get your time that you've ruminated about that. And I mean, I've talked about that that I've gotten my own surgery for like an armpit. Right. Oh, I missed that little. I miss that little armpit. Do you? You can have it.

I should have saved it for you. And the surgery. Yeah. I had like a little armpit roll. It was like excess breast tissue that was like under my armpit. And it would. It would bother me. Every time I wore a tank top, I would see it.

And I don't, no one ever else, no one has ever mentioned anything to me about it. Right. Besides myself. And it's funny because, because it's funny, like, it's just as an example, like, I almost picture your younger self with that. And I thought it was like cute and like, you know, like, whatever. I'm just saying like, because I picture you as like your younger self with that. Like, I never thought like, ew.

Right. I was just kind of like, this is just how you are. This is just, you know, like, for yourself, it's like, ew. For whatever. For me, it's like I didn't like wearing certain items because I didn't like how it looked. It bothered me. I would always see it and it would just like, I would think about it a lot. Right.

And then I saved up enough money to get it removed probably when I was like 25 years old. And I forget that I had it all the time. I forget that that was, sometimes I'll see a picture from like before that time and I'll see it in the picture and I'll be like, oh, yeah, I like forgot I even had that thing. Yes. And I really don't even think about it anymore. And that to me is, again, it wasn't like, oh, my God, like so many more men were interested at me or like.

Yes, exactly. Or like it changed my life. It was no, it was more like I don't think about this thing that I used to think about a lot. And isn't that nice? Yes. It's really about your relationship with yourself. And just like creating an experience where you can have a clear mind when you're looking at your body and not have this thing like screaming at you all the time.

Right. If you can fix it. And if you can't, then you then change your mind around it. But if you can and you're able to do it, to me, it's like, I don't think you, the feminism police will come after you or maybe they will. But that's, I don't think we can, we need to be perfect all the time in our love for everything about ourselves at all points. Yes, totally.

And as far as like, and I, I hear a lot of parents with this issue of like, like, what message does it send to my child? And I think you can do that. First of all, she's, you know, it's going to be a long time before she has this conversation. And you may have, like you said, forgotten all about it at that point. Like it's going to be a non-issue if this works out in the way that we're hoping that it does. But even so, it's kind of like, I did this work. I wanted to love my body. I want just giving her your experience of your journey with yourself and your body and being like, I do think if you're going to do this, you owe it to yourself to really rewire your brain and practice loving the other parts of your body to honor this goal that this is not, I don't want to

keep having this be a pattern where I just keep, you know, going under the knife to fix everything that I don't like about myself. Right. Because that's just a hamster wheel to nowhere. So honor this experience by saying I'm going to practice loving all the other parts of myself. and accepting my body the way I am, you know, once you've kind of handled this one thing that's irking you. So. Yes. Good luck. All right.

Good luck. All right. Let's do some intentions. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, thank you so much for making this podcast every week. Your grounded perspectives and relatability make oversharing my favorite podcast. Love that. Yeah. A branding to ask your help with an intention around being an irrational naggy person slash wife.

For some reason, I get annoyed and anxious every time. my husband is pooping or rather the knowledge that he is engaging in the act of pooping behind a closed door he's fortunate to be very regular and so every morning we after we walk our dog while i i turn to make my breakfast he enters our bathroom we live in an apartment with one bathroom he is probably in there for five minutes but of course i know he's pooping i don't know why it bothers me literally everyone does it and my husband is clean and polite and considerate and funny and i love him so much but for some reason i just can't shake my stress response and annoyance that I feel when he's pooping. In my mind, it's almost as though it's inconsiderative him to be using the bathroom while I am trying to have a calm

morning. So self-centered, I know. In general, I prefer to have a conversation around any niggling issue in our relationship, but I don't feel like it would be worthwhile to bring this up for a few reasons. One, my husband has every right to use the bathroom. I don't think there are constructive changes he could make for me to stop feeling annoyed apart from him never pooping again or leaving the house to do so. Isn't there even that expression can a person shit in peace? This is in direct violation of that principle. Two, I've always been the sort of person who was irritated by sounds, sniffling, loud chewing, you name it. So this is clearly a me problem. Even if I were to solve this annoyance, it would probably be displaced into another sound or

experience. And again, if it were something fixable, a parallel situation that I know my husband doesn't like the noise when I scrape my spoon against the bottom of a bowl, that would be different. But going to the bathroom is part of being alive. Three, I feel like he would be hurt or embarrassed if I were to mention it, again, mainly because there's nothing he can do about it. But here we are, and every morning when like clockwork, he goes into the bathroom and I know it will be several minutes before he comes out and I will soon hear the sound of the bidet, then smell our air freshener. I feel my body tense and my mind thinking, yuck, stop. Why doesn't he realize I don't want to know what he's doing. I've tried thinking things to myself like, this is just a sound and

his actions are totally normal, but it hasn't helped. And so I would love your guys' perspective on how I can move past this. We hopefully have decades left in our marriage and I don't want to become that naggy wife who corrects all of her partner's behaviors or explodes. Thank you again. Roses really smell like mud. This is a first. Yes. We have not had this question before. I think this is a case for she's not going to like this. And I'm sorry ahead of time. Let's hear it. But I think this is a case for exposure therapy.

Really? Yeah. Okay. I think there's something. He needs to leave the door open? Maybe. Perhaps. I think so what I would say is, I think we've talked about this before, with something like

this where it's like an irrational aversion. Because it's, you can't, she realizes that. Right. The man can't function. He's not going to go to the 7-Eleven every time he has to poop in the morning. Right. Like this is something she's going to have to just learn to live with. Yeah.

She's going to have to get over it. So I think the only way for her, and it sounds like she's probably tried some other, like, less aggressive ways of, you know, getting over it. like talking to herself. So my recommendation would be making like an anxiety hierarchy where you're like, you know, however many aspects of this, she can think of that irk her and then rank them from one to however many. And you start with the one that's the least irritating, which sounds like where she's at right now. Okay. Like, I mean, they have a bidet. He, He does air freshener after every single time.

Sounds like he's doing everything he can more than most men would do. Yes, totally. Like there's, they've got the best possible situation. Door closed. He's not announcing it. He's not talking about it. Like, I mean, I think that she's going to have to do something along those lines. Like first, maybe him like telling her that he's going to go to the bathroom, whatever's going to be like slightly more anxiety provoking and then just.

allowing that to happen. Okay, he's told me he's going to the bathroom. Or he's told me that he has to have a bowel movement. And now I have to like sit with the knowledge that this is happening. And just like we talked about before, you watch the feeling rise. You watch the feeling pass. And then you realize, okay, I'm okay. And you have to do that repeatedly.

I'd say to do that like two to three times a week with the number. the lowest level anxiety provoking situation, and then you bump it up, and then you bump it up, and then you bump it up until, for example, she's like, he's, you know, she's standing next to him. Yes, sitting on his lap. All right, maybe we don't have to go that far. But I do think, you know, just for the purposes of the exposure therapy, because if he's then, if she gets to the point where he's like leaving the door open, and she does that three times a week and she like watches the anxiety rise and fall and she like

actually smells it or she hears it or whatever the exposing stimuli are and she can like calm her body because she does it repeatedly she might have to do it four or five or six times until it's kind of like okay I can keep my body calm then when he goes back to just simply not announcing it closing the door like very non-nonate. nonchalantly, non-abrasively going into the bathroom and using the bathroom, it's going to be like, okay, this is good. This is like going to be better than where she landed off, which is like the door's open. I'm hearing it.

I'm smelling it, whatever. Hopefully that'll be like a nice relief when they can go back to him just normally using the toilet like a very considerate human. I like that. Anything she could tell herself, any intention she could tell herself while he's in there and she's like getting. worked up. Yeah, I think, I mean, I didn't actually write out an intention because I think this exposure therapy is kind of like she needs to, I don't think that her calming herself and avoidance of it is going to help.

Like, I don't think there's any intention that she's going to tell herself right now that's going to really help without her kind of confronting the situation because it does seem pretty irrational and like not a way that she can continue moving forward. But I do think she can, the intention can be around like, you know, something around like sitting with this discomfort is going to bring me relief. Okay. Eventually. Right.

Because if she is sitting like, huh. Yeah. No pun intended. Yeah. Yeah. I think sitting with the discomfort is going to ultimately bring her relief. In that moment, it feels really uncomfortable, but long term, it's going to, you know, I think reduce the amount of discomfort she has around this.

Until they get an apartment with two bathrooms. Yeah. And then at that point, maybe he has his and hers. But it's almost like the weird thing, which is why I want her to lean hard into this, is because it's not like she's exposed to it or she's hearing it or she's smelling it or he's like making a big announcement or he's leaving the door open. It's like he's very quietly. It's just her knowing that he's going to the bathroom is what's upsetting her.

Right. So that's why even the two bathrooms thing might not even help because it's like. That's true. Why is it just him that this bothers her about, I guess? Maybe it's because like she has a sexual relationship with him. Yeah. I do wonder what the deeper thing is around this. She discussed it.

She disgusted by her own bowel movements? Yeah, I wonder. Maybe it is like it makes her feel less sexually attracted to him, which I get. It's almost like she probably is creating, if I had to guess, some kind of a visual fantasy in her mind of like what's happening there that she's not able to. Maybe. Yeah. Like she's creating like she's almost like in it in there. with him in her mind.

Yeah. She's thinking about it. And I guess it's because she knows it's every morning. It's not like who knows what he could be doing in there. Right. Exactly. And she does say that. It's kind of like, I know what he's doing in there.

It's like, okay. Yeah. Right. I mean, hopefully this is your biggest issue as a couple that you face. Yeah. But it really must be bothering her, which is why I'm kind of like you need to address this. You know, it's not like he's in there saving documents to his tax information. folders.

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. So, I mean, give it a try. Let's see if the exposure therapy works. Yeah, I mean, it's, look, honestly, this, sometimes this is a type of thing you need to do with the therapist. It's not easy to do these exposures by yourself because you really have to, like, push yourself to be uncomfortable.

Right. And I would also recommend, you know, like kind of practicing relaxation techniques before you try the exposure therapy. And this goes for anyone who wants to try exposure therapy on their own. You have to practice like calming your body, taking deep breaths, doing like a body scan, learning how to relax your body. So that way you're already practiced at it once you're in the exposure versus being like, okay, now I'm super anxious and now I have to first figure out how to calm my body. So you have to kind of learn that first, then do the exposure therapy. after and you have to do it repeatedly until it feels like, okay, I've conquered that one.

Right. What's next? Okay. Well, good luck. Yeah. Let us know how that goes. All right. Let's do some games.

You ready? All right. Let's do trigger. Do you want to read our first one? Sure thing. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I have a triggered scenario. I'm a 32-year-old female living in the city.

I'm a successful professional. And for the most part, I'm pretty self-sufficient. Three years ago, I purchased a home in the city. live in, buying a house was a big dream of mine. And while it would have been ideal to do it with a partner, I didn't, and still to this day don't have one. But rates were low and my lease was up. I pulled the trigger and bought a house. I went through this process entirely by myself, along with my realtor, mortgage broker, inspector. I also have my current roommates come and see the houses with me throughout the process. Buying and moving into and decorating the house was a huge

accomplishment for me that brought me a lot of pride in myself and independent. However, one thing triggered me throughout this time, and in working with a new therapist, I've realized it's still pretty triggering. During the house hunting and moving process, my parents who live an hour drive away and have very flexible schedules and are very able-bodied fit people didn't come see the house or help with any part of the physical process. They didn't take interest in seeing the house before their daughter made a 30-year investment. They didn't help with the move. They didn't even come see the house for at least three months after I moved in. I will say my dad did generously help me by gifting me money for the down payment so that I would reach the threshold

not to pay PMI. I'm grateful for the financial support and view that act of generosity as him supporting my decision to buy this house. I can't help but feel that this was a really huge life decision and accomplishment that was overlooked and under celebrated by my family. As I mentioned, I'm single, so I don't have a partner to rely on or celebrate with. There's a lot of family history in dynamics with financial support in place of emotional support. The fact that I'm still kind of dwelling on this three years later makes me think, how triggered can I be? Thanks, a 30 year investment in myself.

Yeah, I think this is triggering. I think it's like annoying for a lot of women where like societally the only accomplishments that seem to be like acknowledged or or celebrated are relationship or child milestones. and really very little emphasis on on like career milestones. Yes. Yeah. And things like this, like buying a house by yourself,

that's huge, honestly. It's like to pull the trigger and make the decision and pick the house and make sure that it's in the right neighborhood and everything's, you know, it's a scary, scary process to do all by yourself and make all those decisions by yourself. And I totally agree. I wish there were more like bachelorette party type things around getting a new job,

making partner in a law firm, you know, getting a degree, buying a house, like all these things that don't involve being chosen by a partner or being, you know, getting pregnant. Yeah. And having a baby. It sounds like her friends were supportive. I don't know what's going on with her family. Maybe I feel like, and I don't, this probably isn't it because I don't, she doesn't sound, but like maybe they were waiting to be invited.

Maybe they felt kind of like this is her thing and they, she wanted to be independent on it and they didn't want to overstep their boundaries or be pushy. I don't know if that's part of it. She says they're not very emotional. So maybe they just didn't really know how she wanted to be supported in this process. If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt that they were just trying to like not overstep or be controlling.

Yeah. It's hard to know without like, of how they would be. If that's, if that were the case, if they, if she hasn't, if she never asked them, I could say, I would say that this is less triggering than if she had asked and they never came. But you would think they would see, they would say I'd want, oh, I would like, when can I see it or something. Right. Right. Yeah.

I would say that to, I think anyone who bought, I can't wait to see. Yes. Right. Especially if you look pretty close. I do think, I mean, she doesn't say this, but I would imagine there's some sort of underlying thing of like, Maybe a parent has a fear of like their daughter buying a house on her own. And so maybe they're not that supportive of it. Maybe there is a sense of like they'd rather be celebrating a different accomplishment

of hers. Oh, right. Yeah. Like maybe she does feel like they would be more celebratory if she was buying it with a partner. Right. Like maybe there's some sort of fear. I'm not saying that that's like right, but I also think like I can understand maybe if you wanted this feeling of your child.

is well adjusted when they're with a partner and settle down with someone as opposed to alone. I don't think that people feel that way as much about their sons as they would about their daughters. I'm not saying this is how they feel because she didn't say that. But I do think that could be part of it. Right. And I see with a lot of my patients that sometimes, like you said, I don't think it's with the worst of intentions. I think parents just want to feel like life is sometimes easier with a partner. You're splitting the responsibilities. You're splitting the bills, you're having someone to take care of you emotionally and be there for you and kind of like, all right, almost existentially, like when I die, you're going to have somebody.

So I don't think it's necessarily always the, like, with bad intentions, but I can see how it, a lot of times parents will feel like if you're not, like buying this house, maybe to them is a signal like she's not trying. like she's she's not trying to like meet a partner and establish a home and a life with a partner that she's like okay being single which is fine and be okay being single but i think for your parents maybe they're taking it as like i give up like i'm not even gonna right because i think when people don't really and i see this with a lot of my patients when you don't really share people sometimes are tired of their parents input around dating or

meeting or whatever. So you kind of stop sharing with them that you're looking and you're trying and you're dating because you just don't want to keep having to go over it. So then from the parents perspective, they don't know and they think like you've just given up on trying to meet someone, which is fine if that's what you're doing. But I don't know that that's what's happening. But the house might be for some reason for the parents a symbol of, okay, she's just going to kind of be alone in this house. perhaps. Right. Which even if that was the case, that's not really an excuse for them not coming. I still don't think it's like right or nice. It's very avoidant of like whatever, potentially their disapproval. I'm not so sure that's what this is that it's them disapproving because the dad probably wouldn't have given her the money if he was so disapproving.

Yeah. I think the only way to know is to ask. I think you could, this is definitely worth bringing up. It hurt my feelings that you didn't want to come see the house. But also I do think like to give her. her some responsibility towards it. She didn't say I asked them to come a ton and they never came. Like maybe she didn't ask. So that changes the triggering. If you, if you asked or you said like, could you come to the inspection with me? Could you want to see it? Can you can you come check it out before I buy it? I'd love like your opinion. And they didn't come. I think that would raise this to like a six or a seven. If you didn't say anything and maybe you don't tell them like you said, you don't tell them much. they think of you as very independent.

You didn't ask for their, they've said something before and you've kind of said, I don't really want your opinion. And they didn't come until three months later. I think that's less triggering. That's maybe like a three or four. I would agree with that. Although I'm thinking now there's a little bit of a red flag

in that she says her dad gave her the money instead of like her parents. Right. Not her parents. Yeah. So it's interesting that there is this dynamic that like there probably is some kind of an old school vibe going on in their family. Right. It wasn't there, shared money. It was his money. And she sees it that way. And that's probably how it's like accepted in the family. Good point. So that is interesting that you might be right on this like it's,

it might be a passive aggressive, like you're not proceeding in the way that the old school way that we proceeded where the man is taking care of the finances and that kind of thing. But, um, Yeah, this is triggering, but I agree. She didn't ask, and they didn't say no. So I do think communication is important. And yeah, I think this is a great opportunity to bring it up. And maybe you'll hear directly from the horse's mouth, kind of what their feelings are if you're ready for that. Yeah.

Good luck. All right. Good luck. All right. Our next email is a voicemail. Our last triggered. Let's play it. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi.

I want to tell you about a very recent triggered situation. I had. I divorced my ex-husband, who's the father of my children, primarily due to him being a pathological liar. One of the continuous lies during our marriage was in regard to his nicotine use. He had assured me many times over the decade plus that we were together that he would or had quit. I'd always catch him eventually, and he'd tell me he had started back up due to whatever lies sounded best the moment. In the end, he would admit that he never tried a single time to actually quit smoking. Fast forward five plus years post-divorce, and I allow him to stay in my house when he visits our boys. This is primarily because he's been stationed overseas for most of the time we've been divorced, and it's easiest on the boys and doesn't cost as much for me and my ex.

This time he was visiting after nine months of not seeing the boys, and I was enjoying getting to escape my house while the free babysitter was here. I came home one night to catch him smoking his vape in my living room. I was livid, but also really impressed with how I handled the situation. I didn't yell. I just told him it was absolutely unacceptable. But how triggered would you be to find someone smoking? inside your house, especially considering our history. Part two of like the same trigger is that he lies to our children and regularly tells him

that he has quit smoking, even though he hasn't. Anyway, I love the pod. Keep up the good work. Bye. This is an interesting one. This is tough. When she says babe, does that mean like an e-cigarette? Yeah.

That's definitely not like plumes of smoke like going through the house. Oh, I don't think it. And it's not weed. I don't think this is weed. I think this is nicotine, vape like, like an ESA or something. Yeah, whatever.

Yeah, like a jewel or something, whatever. That's what I think. So it's, I do think it's different if you were smoking a cigarette and it was like plumes of smoke like infiltrating the furniture and the house and like smelling up the whole place. Yeah.

And it's, I do, I agree. I do think it's, that's, that is a very big difference. I would be annoyed if someone was smoking in my house for much more than I would. if someone was.

Yes, I agree. It's a tough one because, look, this is why they got divorced so that he can just vape without having to hear anything about it. It is her house and it sounds like her kids were home. So that part is definitely triggering him lying to the kids about the smoking, I think, or about the vaping. I think that's an add-on. I think it would be great if he could be honest with them about his addiction.

But that's like a higher level. That's his thing to figure out with them. That's his thing to figure out with them. Like a lot of parents are not able to have that, you know, intricate conversation around like, I'm struggling with this thing and I'm trying and these are the things that I'm trying. Right. And he hasn't seen them in nine months. I don't know if he's going to like use the time to discuss the baby.

Totally. So that part, I don't think is the worst. The fact that he knows she doesn't like it and he did it anyway, I agree is a little bit of like a fuck you. Like, okay. Now, like, what else you, what are you going to do? Because we're already, you've already ended the marriage over this. Yeah. I mean, I think it's particularly triggering him rather than anything else he would be doing in the house.

The fact that it's like, this is like their like longstanding fight that I imagine they fought. Yeah. occurring over several years. But on one hand, it might be like, oh, he's still up to his same old shit. Like, yes. And I'm not, like, I can understand how it would be like almost the opposite of triggering of like, this isn't my problem anymore. This is great.

Yes, this isn't my problem anymore. Totally. But I could also see the other thing where it's like you're doing the thing in my face that's like, you're almost like you're seeing like someone's mistress that like they left like you ruined the marriage. Well, look, the other perspective is. she says that they ended the marriage because he was a compulsive liar. So the fact that he didn't hide it, didn't lie about it, he was doing it right out in the open.

Right. Would she preferred if he put it away before she got home and pretended he wasn't doing it? Oh, it kind of smells in here. Were you vaping? No. And then she would never really know. And that is really the reason why they broke up. Right.

It wasn't that he was vaping. It was that he like, they didn't have proper communication around. the nicotine use. Yes, because I do think, and I've experienced this a lot of times in couples therapy, it's when someone has an addiction, most of the time it's, I mean sometimes if it's really bad, but this is not that case. If it's an addiction to like nicotine or something that's not good for you and it's not healthy, but it's not like making you intoxicated or angry or drunk or belligerent or,

you know, it's just not healthy. and the marriage ends over it. It's not about the substance use. It's about the lying and the deceit. Which that is like toxic to a relationship. I don't think inherently vaping nicotine is toxic to a relationship. It's the lying about it. So on the other side, he didn't lie about it.

Right. Did it right out in the open. So maybe that was almost his way of being like I am not going to lie about it. this anymore. I think it's more like, oh, the only triggering thing I could really, or the most triggering thing I think about this would be like, I don't want anyone smoking in my house and you're smoking in my house. But like, I think that she would probably care more that he was smoking in her house than if anyone else was vaping in their house. I would imagine. Again, just due to the difference in the smell that those things emit when. Right. So I don't know. It's, it's tough one to

trigger because like I get why it would be true. He explains the specific reason why this particular situation is triggering. But on the other hand, like, I think you could flip it to be less triggering based on the fact that he's not lying to you anymore. Yeah. If I was in it, if this was me, I would probably be triggered. Being an outside objective observer of what is happening here and not being so close to the situation and realizing that just the, the visual of the vape pen is probably so triggering to her

because this like basically destroyed her marriage in some sense is why I would, you know, I'll give it of four. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Good. I think that's a good one.

That's because it's like it acknowledges like the power, the power of it in this specific circumstance. But a regular person coming home to this, I don't think would be that triggered without the history of it. Right. Yes. And you could, and I do think she has every right. to say, please don't do that again.

Or even if you do that again, you're not going to be allowed to stay here while you visit with them. Like I think she can set a boundary around it. Sounds like it's her house. And she can, the way she handled it, she didn't yell. She simply told him that she didn't want him doing that anymore. Great. You handled it great.

And if he does it again, you can create consequences around it. If you feel that strongly about it. But in and of itself, it's, there's no real ramifications. There's no, you know, I don't think this is anything that's like, causing damage. Right. Whereas if it was like... Or as if he was an alcoholic or something.

Yes. Where it's like, you know, he was abusive or he was belligerent or even if it was a cigarette and it was like now you can't get the smell out. Like I think it's a little bit different. Yeah. The consequences of an electronic smoking situation don't seem that high. Yeah. All right.

Well, thank you for the voicemail. I love hearing your voices. Yeah. Can tell how irritated she was from me. Yeah. And I do. I want you to know. I get it.

I told it. If I was in it. Yeah. Like you are, I'd be much more triggered than kind of being the objective observer. Agreed. All right. That's our time. Great work today.

Oversharing is produced and edited by Rebecca Steinberg. Guest booking by Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and everything's fine. And send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.