Oversharing - How Can I Avoid The WebMD Spiral?

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Dr. Naomi shares her experience of running into a listener in the wild, and Jordana unpacks her recent waiting room agitation (subscribe to Oversharing Calm TF Down for a meditation on that topic dropping 9/1!). Our Overshare comes from a Betch with concerns about her husband’s drinking and career frustrations. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener who wonders why her partner wants to go to a nude all-gender bathhouse. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for a daughter struggling with her father’s Parkinson’s diagnosis. And we’re feeling triggered by fat-shaming friends and receiving a senior discount 10 years too soon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your position or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to the oversharing podcast. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going?

It's going good. So I had a fun, a really fun weekend, a really fun Friday night. We went to see Jeff perform again. with his band, Pride in the name of you two at Legacy Hall, which was really fun. And I met an oversharing listener there, which was super duper fun. Is this your first listener in the wild? This is my first listener in the wild. Someone recognized you.

No, she came to the show knowing that I would be there. And, you know, it was really... So you, the groupie, have your own groupie. Sort of. I'm hoping she liked the music, but it was really cool to see. It was just such good vibes and like all the kids came. So I was kind of out on the dance floor. It's funny because I'm thinking like if I saw my therapist like out on the dance floor, like it would be weird. If you saw your therapist like at a concert. Anywhere. Yeah. I'd be mortified. So it's an interesting thing. But it was really. really good. She had this big friendly smile and I gave her a hug and we didn't have time for an overshare, unfortunately, because the music was loud and I was saying hi to her in the middle

of the show. But she may join one of my groups, which would be really cool. That's awesome. Yeah, so there's still room in there if anybody wants to join. There's always rolling. So you can check out my website, Naomi Bernstein.com, or you can email me. at Naomi Bernstein's psych at gmail.com. Or if they want to meet you in person, they can go to one of Jeff shows, pride in the name of you too. Yes.

Come out. If you're in the area, come to a show, come find me, don't be shy. I love that she wasn't like, like, just come over. Don't be shy.

I want to talk to everybody. Can they come with a problem for you to solve? Yes, they can come. I mean, they can come with a problem, but it's going to have to be, You have to stay to the end of the show. You can't do it in the middle of the show.

But if you stay till the end of the show, I'm down. It was really fun. Free mini therapy session. Free mini therapy session. Yeah, it's awesome. I really want to connect. Like, I love, that's why I love the voicemails. We have a voicemail today.

And even the meditations that we do on the calm the fuck down. It's like, I want to know what you. you guys need and I want to help. Yeah. We get, I mean, I live in maybe a more populated city for our fan base, but I people, I see all the time tell me they love the show. They love you specifically. It's almost a little insulting.

They think you're the best. Oh, yay. They think you're so pretty. Oh, really? Yeah. That's sweet. Yeah. The listener that, the email that we have later on in the show,

about the, spoiler alert, but about the woman who got the senior citizens discount. Like, I can relate. So it is nice to hear that I'm still attractive to the millennials and such. That's funny. Totally. I guess I don't have too much. I just came from, I just moved our recording back because I was the doctor's office and I was waiting in the waiting room for like over an hour.

And we're going to do a meditation on this for next month. but I don't know what I don't it's funny like the things you know when you notice maybe from this show you notice the things that are like bothering me um maybe more than they're bothering other people because I feel like I'm in this waiting room and I'm watching like the time keeps going and I'm like going to be I'm like late for the show right and I'm like been sitting there for an hour and I'm like I don't know what else seems as bothered as I am but I'm like what going on here. I am like internally like I am like starting to get really and I noticed myself like starting to get really agitated even after like everyone was fine with moving the recording back like

fine. They're fine. They moved it back. I made it back in time for the delayed time. But there's something about like waiting and maybe it's like inefficiency. Like I'm, I'm like irritated by the fact that they don't have a system where people don't have to wait this long. It just, I don't know. It's just like, like, the longer I sit there, the more like I'm getting angry. And again, I think back to the show and I'm like,

why am I so angry? Like everyone else here, suck on their phone. They seem to be like fine. I'm like watching the nurse like a hawk. Every person she like pulls in. And then I'm like going to check like how, far in line. Like, I don't know what it is. I guess I'm just really impatient or something.

No, I totally get it. I do the thing where I'm like, all right, at 940, I'm going to go up and ask. And then I like, wait and wait. And then 940 comes and I'm like, well, I don't want to be like, annoying because what if they come right out? And I'm like, all right, I'll wait five more minutes. And then you go up to ask. And they don't ever say, like, they don't ever give you any information when you go up to ask. They're like, okay, you do your next, which means like I could have been next this whole time. It's kind of irrelevant. But yeah, I think it's just being in the habit of like maximizing your time, even when you don't have to. It's almost like I think about the FaceTune email that we did last week where the got a lot of a lot of responses. Yes, and I want to hear. But it's like there's just this

ingrained and if you don't stop yourself, there's like this ingrained mindset of like maximize. You look pretty, but you could look prettier. You're going to make the meeting, but you could make the meeting with a little extra time to spare or whatever. You could have five more extra minutes in your house to make yourself a nice coffee. There's always just this urge to maximize, maximize, squeeze all the juice out of the lemon. So when someone's not doing that, it feels like they're blocking you. Right. Yeah.

And maybe that's from having lived in New York City for something. so long that's like amplified this feeling of i don't know everything's so fast-paced moves so quickly that like it feels like time is money or something like that i don't know like but then you think about you know island time or yeah you know you visit somewhere else where people are just like going at their like leisurely pace and in some ways you're like oh that's so nice and in others you're kind of thinking what's with like let's come on like you're like Yeah, it's actually a great thing. It's like that moment of like, here's my built-in moment to just like have a breath and sit in this waiting room and nobody's expecting anything of you.

And I could see if you're going to be late. That's one thing. But once you've canceled, like once you've pushed back your meeting or whatever, I guess they're still like, okay, I'm going to be late for my pushback time. I get all that. But once you've done everything that you can do, you just have to kind of be like, okay, here's my built-in. mindfulness time or like what am I like again I I like I like that question like why am I stressed out and then your mind automatically goes to like who's to blame this should be more efficient and I'm gonna switch doctors and like right or anything like I was waiting for an assailles bowl the other day and and and it was

just like forever taking forever this was in New York actually and I'm like watching him and I'm just like why are your arms moving so slow? Like, move them faster. I was just like looking at this thing. Like, there's a better way. So I get it. And I get in that mindset too. But the first step is awareness that you were doing that and just kind of like that sometimes you're like, what is the rush? Really? A lot of times there isn't. You're just used to it. Like you're on a, you're on the fast train. but like sometimes you just have to accept that you don't always have to be on that. Sometimes you do, but most of the time you really don't. And maybe it's also, yeah.

I mean, some people like they bring their computers. They're like stopped up. Productive, maximizing. Productive. Right, yeah. Which I'm like, most of my work is like meetings or podcast recordings or things like that. So it's not something I can like bring there. But again, my thought was like, how do I figure out a way to like make this time more efficient?

Yes. And maybe that's your time to just like breathe. meditate, squeeze it in. So many people would go, I didn't have time to meditate. That's your perfect time. Yeah. All right. I'll try to turn lemons into lemonade.

We'll see if I have the patience in the moment. I did think about like, you know, I think the first step is awareness of being like, why am I so kind of enraged by this situation? Yes. No, and look, I get it. First of all, your appointment must have been really early. I don't know how backed up they could be by like 7.30 in the morning. Just that's annoying as well.

Yeah. I mean, I got there at 8.30 and I got the doctor was physically seeing me at like 9.45. Oh, that is a lot. That's annoying. It's a long time. I kind of like get your shit together. Get someone else in here. Yeah.

Totally. All right. Well, you made it. You're here. Yeah. We're all good. I did it. I'm going to deal with some other people's stuff.

Yeah. We'll solve your issue. it is interesting what makes us, you know, because like I'm not enraged by everything. It's just certain things. So it's interesting to just pay attention to what sets you off. I agree. Let's do some emails. And if you have a voicemail at the end of this episode, if you have a voicemail, you can leave us one at 646363626294. Or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. I will read our first overshare. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I love your podcast, and I really appreciate that you can combine serious

conversations and advice with a lot of levity and laughter. It makes dealing with life shit so much easier. I need some advice about how to talk to my husband about his drinking. Context. I'm 43 and he's 48. We've been together almost three years and married for almost two. His career didn't turn out as he had expected, but has found an area of the sector that he's passionate about and has been working on it for about five or six years. Despite liking the work, he's never liked his workplaces or the workplace dynamics he's been a part of. When we met, he hated his job. He found a new one and we moved 1,200 miles from my hometown back to the area of the country that he grew up in, but had lived away from for 20 years so that he could start a new, seemingly very exciting senior position.

We had both been ready to move, but it was still a huge change since the city we moved to was new to both of us and neither of us knew anyone living here. We have friends and family and neighboring cities, but visiting still requires a long drive or train ride. A year later, and it turns out this job isn't what was really advertised. The team is awful. The workplace is toxic and the institution isn't really invested in his department. So he's left feeling like he's spinning his tires. It sucks and I get it and sympathize. It's not fair to him. He's actively looking for a new job, but nothing is materialized yet. So he's understandably frustrated, feeling like he's been sort of tricked into a

shitty situation, and he's not respected or listened to. He's incredibly smart and ambitious and capable, and his talents aren't being used well. His core friend group when he grew up live in the area, but are all between one and four hours drive from us. They're also doing their own things, jobs, education, families, et cetera. So he doesn't have a regular social circle. His coping mechanism has been drinking. He drinks every single night. He doesn't get wasted and act crazy, but he drinks enough that it's concerning me. When he does drink, he gets even more angry and sensitive, and if I don't respond to him in the way he wants to a joke or something, for example, he gets defensive and assumes I'm out to get him. Even just watching TV is exhausting because he's always

making super negative commentary about characters on the show. And generally, it just has a really negative vibe that's affecting my own energy. He's also keeping empty bottles tucked away in a cupboard where alcohol is kept. Note, I quit drinking almost five years ago, so I don't have any reason to really go in there, and I'm wondering if it's so I don't see how many he goes through when they end up in recycling. I've worked hard to find my community in this new city, joined a gym, started working part-time at a local spot to meet people and supplement the full-time remote job. I landed a few months ago. I've been previously self-employed and stay at regular contact with my friends and family back home with phone calls and FaceTime. I'm exploring new places to

take our dogs, restaurants he and I can go to, and generally I'm doing what I can to make this our home. I've been asking him to see a therapist since we got here, gently at first and helping make it happen by getting him on wait list for a family doctor. He has one now, but was told to check into the possible therapy he can access through his workplace. Leaving it up to him when he's overwhelmed and likely depressed means it just isn't happening. A therapist I had been seeing for a few months when we first got here suggested that if I want to ask him about his drinking, I should start by being curious, like, tell me about why you choose to drink, which to be honest, sounds fucking dumb.

I need a real way to navigate this without sounding like I'm just trying to be a therapist myself. And without just coming out and telling him, you drink too much and it's affecting our marriage and it's making your anger worse and will eventually kill you because it's poison. What can I do? I can't take much more of this. Thank you, a betch at the end of her rope. Yeah, this is really hard when you, you're both going through something and it sounds

like she feels like I'm kind of handling it the right way and you're not. Like they're both in this new place. They both are starting over. Yes, his work situation is terrible, but she's kind of like, I'm going out. I'm trying to make new friends. I'm doing things. And I wish you would do the same. It's really hard when you have a partner and you just feel like you see them kind of like

swirling and unhappy. Right. And you feel like you know what's best for them and it's not what they're doing. Yes. But you don't really know how to, no one wants to be like told that. Totally. So I get, I totally get her predicament.

Obviously, like there's the drinking involved, which might make it a bigger or kind of different issue. Um, also kind of struck me when she says that he's hated every job he's had. Mm-hmm. And this job, which makes me think that like a different job won't necessarily fix his issue.

It might be like his mindset. Yes. That's the issue. Because I do feel like if you, and you see, I see this, you know, someone says they hate all their friends or they hate all the people they're around or something. Like, it's usually kind of them.

Yes. I think. Yeah, it's tough. I think sometimes you're like people just spend their whole life kind of chasing a unicorn of like a job that's going to be they're going to love the people. They're going to love the culture. They're going to love the work. They're going to like the compensation.

They're going to like the commute. And sometimes it happens. but a lot of times you have to just do what I think she's trying to probably, yeah, he needs to do, which is like, this isn't great, but when I deal with people that hate their job, it's really hard. It's a lot of, it's the- Spend a lot of time there. Yes, you spend a lot of time there. And then the night before you're like preparing to kind of go there and the Sunday scaries and you're preparing for this full week of going to this place that you don't like. But sometimes what I'll ask them, and this is maybe, you know, her therapist saying be curious.

And I'm laughing because like that kind of is the answer, like a motivational interviewing thing. Like we've talked about that before. But the way you say it, you don't want it to come off as like cheesy and canned, you know? Right. So given like the, right, given the way that she's kind of even written this email, it doesn't necessarily sound like it's her. Right. Right. But I think you could ask a question, which is the question that I ask a lot of my patients when they say that, like, they quote hate their job, which is like, okay, when you're in the moment of your job, like you're sitting, let's just take you, for example. I know you don't hate your job, but let's say whatever in a moment you did.

Sure. You go, like if you picture yourself going through your entire day, pick your worst day in your imagination of like a day that you were dreading or a day that seemed like really. something that you didn't want to do. And you picture yourself going through your day. What are the moments of that day? The actual, like, live moments of that day that are so unbearable. Right. And if you do, probably not that many.

If I think about it. Right. It's more like the what if of the moment. Anticipation is almost worse than actually the bad day. Right. It's usually like, oh, I have to like. I'm tired or even the night before. Like the what if I don't get enough sleep and then I'm tired. And then when I go in, then what if I'm cranky?

Or what if that guy comes into my office again and tells me that he needs this thing in an hour. And, you know, sort of like it's not about that moment of him coming in and saying that thing. It's like the what if I can't get it to him in an hour. And usually it's kind of like most people when they look at their job or if I I ask them, are you afraid that you're going to lose your job? Which is like a reason.

Like if I don't perform a certain way, then I'm going to lose my job. And usually that's not really it. It's not that the person's afraid of losing their job. It's more like the what if I can't or I have to do this before the thing. And if you break down your day into the actual moments, I always say, I'm like, you're just doing this. Most of us. you're just like typing, pushing some buttons on a computer, or you're saying some words in a meeting,

or you're like inputting some data into a system. Right. And then occasionally interspersed with maybe someone making a rude comment to you, which is sucks. I get it, like especially if you have people in your office that are disrespectful. That's kind of one of the worst things, but sort of like, okay, that was a moment. I had to look at their face.

I had to hear what they had to say. And then that moment's kind of gone. And then the rest of it is like, what does your brain do in between the bad moments? Okay. So you're saying she should start to talk him through that? Yeah. Like just say kind of like, what are the parts of your day? Like what are the worst parts of your day?

Like the actual. Just letting him kind of express. And sometimes if you hear yourself say like, oh, like so and so came in and told me that I needed the thing, needed to get him this thing in an hour. And it's like, oh, okay, well, how did it work out? Oh, well, I got it to him in an hour. Right. And sometimes just hearing him say, like, it kind of worked out, or it all ended up being fine,

or even the idea of a lot of people that are stressed at work, they fear they're not going to get everything done in time. Like, that's a big one, too, is like being able to be like, I'm logging off my computer at six. And I'm done. and I'll do the rest of it tomorrow. And if that's not enough for you, then, like, maybe this isn't the job.

Like, maybe this isn't the job for me. Like, setting your limits. And, you know, I know not everybody can do that, but some people, they're, like, more of the anticipation, so they won't even make an effort to say, like, can I set my boundaries here? But is this stuff she can fix? No.

No, this is all for him, actually. I'm realizing, as I'm saying it. This is not for her. Just hand him over. the headphones. Yes. This is actually all for him. Yeah. This is like, but she can be curious in that way of like, what are the actual moments of your day that are the, that are the worst? But I really think in order to help him, she can't force. She has to do, like, we talked about the motivational interviewing a while back. It's sort of like, instead of shoving it down his throat, like just kind of meeting him

where he's at, he needs to feel three things. He needs to feel understood. Like you get why he's miserable. Like you're not talking him out of being miserable. You're kind of like if he says like what I do a lot in my personal life, which isn't good, I'm not like the best therapist in my personal life is like, I'll kind of be like, well, think of it this way or don't look at that way. It's not so bad. It's not so bad. Like especially with my kids when they're like stressed out about school or whatever. I'm like, all right. So you'll get to be like, who cares and it's not the end of the world, whatever it is. But like what they really want is to kind of have. you reflect back what they're saying.

So what it sounds like you're saying is that when this guy comes into your office, like your whole bot, like you want to like strangle him. Like that sounds like, so just kind of hearing, like reflecting back is what most people really want. And sometimes when you don't do that and you try to talk them out of it, they end up like talking themselves into it more to like convince you. They're like convincing themselves. Well, how do you do that without like riling them up?

like validating their feelings without making them more firm in them. Yeah, you might have, I mean, depending on whether she's doing it or not, I think if you do it and it, like, you open that valve a little bit and you let them let their steam out without feeling like it's being squashed by you, a lot of times it will resolve itself where at a certain point you just kind of reflect back what they're saying. So like, you know, whatever it is. Like, I can't take. this anymore. I thought this was going to be different. And just saying like it sounds like you're really disappointed and how this job turned out. Just like asking them, is that what you're feeling? You know, maybe just helping them to explore the benefits of changing. So let's get to the drinking piece, right? Because yeah, the drinking is a symptom of this like unhappiness and negative mindset. that she's hitting the nail in the head. So it's kind of like,

you have to bring the drinking into the room in some way just to kind of be like, oh, maybe even bringing up. Like I noticed that there were like these empty bottles just to like bring up the conversation. Find a way to bring up the conversation and just be like, you know, maybe even saying something like I can totally see

why you might need a drink after, or you might feel like you have to have a drink after work. like what happened, like what the therapist is saying, like, tell me why you need to drink or whatever, the therapist suggested something like that, like kind of like when you drink. In a non-judgmental way. Yeah, like, do you feel a little better after you have your drink? Right. You know.

What if he's like, yeah? Yeah, then you could be like, I, you know, like I could see why it would make you feel better, you know, but I also, you know, maybe even saying like asking just more questions about like what, what do you feel before you drink? What do you feel after you drink? And I know it's almost scary to feel like you're going to have them talk themselves into it. But if it's really not benefiting them, ultimately what's going to happen if you keep having these conversations is they'll feel comfortable to be like, yeah, but the next morning I end up having like a bad headache or yeah, I end up like, I know that we don't have the same quality of conversation or like we've had some fights. So sometimes if you just

open up the space. I know it feels scary because it feels like you're going to that they're going to talk themselves into drinking, but he's already drinking. Okay. So at what point after trying these things would you be like,

this is a bigger problem? Yeah. I mean, look, I think the last thing you want to have to do is be like, this is really affecting our marriage and like if you don't stop, this isn't going to work.

Like, I don't think she wants to. Which sounds like that's what her like short cut when she's really irritated phrase that she wants to say. Yes, yes, yes. And I get it, but I would try this stuff first. It's a slow process.

Like, addiction is not something that someone's going to in one conversation, be like, you know what, you're right, I'm going to stop. Right. But maybe even like when he's feeling the effects of his drinking, I'm sure there must be some effects that she's, I mean, she doesn't exactly pinpoint what they are in terms of how it's affecting their relationship. but when you're having that moment where it's affecting,

that's when maybe you can, you know, bring up the conversation. It sounds like it's like a lot of little things and just his general like negative kind of energy sucking attitude. Right. Which is tough to be like to say that because then it's like someone's like, well, what do you mean? And then you have to like say all these little things, which on their own probably don't sound that bad.

Like for her to be like, yeah, you were like making fun of the. House of the Dragon characters. I mean, you sound ridiculous. But it's like the cumulative effect of like someone just being like bad vibes. Yeah. Bad vibes. Yeah. Yeah, I get it.

And I think she doesn't have to stifle herself, but I definitely would do the thing first around the drinking where you like let him explore his own feelings about his drinking. You know, like just letting him. kind of have this space to say, you know, or even like, yeah, well, it makes me feel better immediately after. But like the next, you know, but like it's not, it doesn't seem like it's helping this overall negative mood that you're having. Like it makes you take your mind off of work for a little bit, but it's not affecting the overall mood. So I would try

motivational interviewing strategies, which are basically just like making him feel understood validating, you're not going to make him drink more by making him feel understood about why he's drinking. That's not going to make it worse. And him saying, yeah, it does make me feel so much better, I don't think it's going to make it worse either. He's going to eventually realize that there is a general negative mood and the drinking isn't really helping with that. I think if he was, if he thought it was perfectly fine, he wouldn't be hiding bottles in the cabinet. So you do have that piece, like even maybe even bringing up, like, why, you know, like, why did you put an empty bottle back in the cabinet?

You know, just as like a conversation of like, just opening up a dialogue so he can really air out. And I don't think it's going to make it worse. I think eventually you could start to kind of be like, well, what are the pros and cons of drinking. That's kind of like, yes, temporarily it makes you feel better, but maybe... Can she say how it makes her feel? Yes, for sure. I think she can. I think she can, but I think if the conversations end up getting into this, if she's true, you can try all the things. If she's tried the thing where she, which it sounds like she hasn't, where she's like,

this really bothers me. I feel disconnected from you. I don't feel like it's helping. It's making you generally negative. I think 100% she can share. that and see if that helps also. The motivational interviewing is more like you've tried some other stuff and this person just isn't ready to change, then you have to start at the bottom of like, you have to start where they are, which is like not even sure if they want to change. Because once he's even sure that he wants to change, now he has like more steps to go. Like I actually have to make the change. I actually have to like say, tell myself I'm not going to drink and then actually not drink and then have a really bad day and then still not drink. So there's like a lot of places to go.

The first one has to be like, I'm deciding that I realize that I want this to be different or even like contemplating that you want maybe to stop drinking. So she's got to kind of go there first. But I think she could definitely tell him in a way that's like, I miss you. I want to feel connected to you. I want to, you know, like I miss how we used to be. I feel disconnected. Right. Yeah. Like we used to laugh more. We used to like, whatever, whatever was different before this shift in him started. Like I would talk about how that felt and maybe even as a team kind of be like, how can we get back there? Like, we can't control this job. We can't control you getting a new one. We're doing everything we can. Like, how can we enjoy our moments together in the meantime while we wait for that to change?

It's hard because like only the purpose. person going through can really help themselves at the end of the day. So all you can do is like try, like you said, try to motivate them. But it does suck to like watch someone doing something that you know is not what's going to like solve their issue. Totally. And it's very tempting. And again, like I said, I do this all the time in my personal life where you just want to make the person better. So you kind of are just like like get not get over it, but like like.

it's not that bad. Like just, you know, look at what I'm doing. I'm going to this class and I'm meeting these people and like, you can do it too. And that really just makes them feel like pent, more pent up. And then it's seeping out by like attacking, you know, the character on the TV. So if you give him that space and kind of like, yes, oh, that sounds really hard. Like how do you deal with that? I can't imagine like having this situation or that and just really validating um but after a while you feel like almost if you validate i think people are afraid that they're going to make the person like you said fuel their fire right you have to be careful you don't want to get into like a whole shit talk session where you're like oh my god i can't believe she did that and like you know that's a disgrace and you should go and you

should do this or you should say this or you should tell this person that's not helpful but the part where you're just like, oh, that sounds really frustrating. Like, tell me what, so what happened after that? Or like, what did you want to do? Or what were you thinking? Or how were you, those questions are good. But I think you fueled a fire more by being like, well, you should do this. Or you should go tell so-and-so that so-and-so did that.

Or like, why don't you email him and tell him that he, you know, that's the stuff I think that fuels the fire more than like, oh, that sounds so draining or like it sounds like you're really maybe second guessing your decision to take this job or those types of things totally yeah so i think that's a good start for her and um i mean let us know if that works if it doesn't then i think you can take probably a more hard line if you've tried that for a bit yeah i'm curious to see you can be our guinea pig try this give it like two weeks where you're not giving him any advice, you're not telling him, giving him suggestions on what he should do, join a club and go to a thing and, like, you're not doing any of that. Give it two weeks where when he's in a bad mood, you just like ask questions, be curious when it comes to the

alcohol, if you can find a way to bring it up and just kind of be curious about how it makes him feel, what he's feeling before, what he's feeling out, just like as if you have no dog in the race. For two weeks, try it. See if anything changes on its own, being like very gentle, hands off, no advice, no pushing. And right back in, let us know how that works, two weeks. And if that doesn't work in two weeks, we'll move to a plan B. But give them some time. Yeah, ongoing session. Let us know how plan A works on your next session. Let's do a budgetist. Do you want to read this one? Yeah, I'll read this one. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, long-time listener, first-time writer. I have a dilemma and want your take on the situation.

My partner of two and a half years has expressed interest in going to a bathhouse in our city that is co-ed and clothing optional. It's important to note that there are no sexual undertones. It's a Russian bathhouse. I don't think there's anything wrong or bad with this type of environment and trust my partner, but I can't get over this nagging feeling that I don't feel. comfortable with him going. I know I can't control what my partner does and I don't want him to feel like I'm trying to, but this feels like a boundary I'm not ready to cross at this time. Am I being a prude? If he decides to go, how do I not let it get to me? Thank you for your help, a fully clothed betch. That's a funny one. I think similarly to the last question, I'd want to know, like what is it about this bathhouse that like makes him really want to go?

Yes. Can he just go to a spa? Yes. I agree. I think this might be him expressing or like dipping his toe in the water of something that would be good for them to perhaps explore together. I don't know why the option isn't like that they can both go. Right. Maybe she just has no interest in going at all.

Right. Was she invited? Right. That's another question. Yes. Or is this like a solo activity where you're not invited that would be more strange? I don't think she's prude for having questions about like going to the co-ed naked bathhouse. I wouldn't call her. I wouldn't say like if she said she didn't want him going to like a regular men spa.

Right. And like, I think that would be a little weird. Like this does seem like what is the purpose of the co-ed nakedness of it? Yes. What is he getting from that? Right. Do they have an all-male naked one? Does he is interested in that?

If not, then he's clearly interested in seeing women naked. Otherwise, he would go to an all-male one, which is like an interesting question. Like, would you still want to go if it wasn't women? And hopefully he can give you an honest answer. And if the answer is yes, then that. that's just something you guys have to talk about. Like, what are you craving? What are you looking for? Like, yeah, I think this is good food for conversation. I agree. I don't think she's prude for not wanting to go and get naked in front of a bunch of strangers. Yeah. I think I'd be more concerned

with the fact that he wants to go than the fact that he went. Like, if he just went and it, he thought it was, you know, single sex or he was clothed and then found out it wasn't, I'd be like, all right, like, whatever, he's there. Like, it's more like what, like, what's this motivate? I'd mean to know, like, what about this particular bathhouse is appealing to you. Right. And is there one that you feel more comfortable with as his partner? You know, there might be something that's a bit of a compromise where it's like single

sex, so you don't feel like he's going to be looking at other women and, like, you know, desiring other women, which is ultimately that's, I don't think she thinks that there's going to be sex happening here. I think she just thinks that he's going to see other naked women and, like, think they're beautiful and, like, have sexual fantasies about other women. That's probably her fear. I mean, is this that different from, like, in like a strip club setting? Would it be like, I don't want him to go to a strip club. I think most people would say that's a valid thought. Right. Yes. I don't think most people are, like, thrilled with the idea of their part. partner like staring at other attractive potentially naked people.

Right. Is it part of like a larger group activity that he's supposed to go on? Like I'm just like curious where he just came home one day and was like, I've got plans for this weekend. Right. And I can see if it just happened. He's like, whoa, I have to tell you about this. I thought I was going to this bathhouse. It ended up being this. But the idea that he really knowing what it is wants to go. I think there's something they need to talk about here about like what he wants to explore. Because if it really, like, it's funny because there's a place like this near Dallas and Shira was coming for her birthday, our sister,

and we were going to do like a spa day and thought, you get like a lot of bang for your buck when you do a spa day. And then they had like a beautiful like spa facility where there's like a cold plunge and a hot thing. A whole day. It's a whole day. But you really only are paying for a massage, but you get like a whole day out of it. So we looked into this place, and their concept was something like the chemicals and the bathing suits, like, somehow affect your rolling your eyes.

I was just giving a critical eye. Yeah, critical eye. But that was because we called it and I was like, oh, this place looks great. It was like reasonably priced and it looked really cool. It were like water fountains and steam rooms and all this stuff. And it, you know, but there was basically like, I think you have. you like had to be naked. It wasn't even like optional.

And it's co-ed? I think it might have been separate. Like there was a male section and a female section. I think. I didn't, Pat, I wasn't interested. Like, it's just not my thing. Once I realized like you had, it wasn't even, there was a portion of it were like, because of something about the chemicals or the fabrics and the bathing suit that it affected

the water. It was like, all right, I'm not doing this. No judgment. The bodily fluids affect the water? Yeah. what I was thinking too. Like maybe the bathing suit holds in some stuff. Right.

That was my, I don't know. So anyway, to each their own, but like I guess that is sort of the concept behind taking your clothes off in some regards. Like you're just at one with the water and like there's nothing. I,

you know, anyway, I do think this is a bigger conversation. Like you said, what's intriguing to you about this? If you're more comfortable with him going to an all-male naked thing. Maybe you can suggest that if that's not what he's interested in.

And maybe you can follow up those questions too. Or why weren't you invited? Yes, that's a big one. Or maybe, yeah, if you, if this was like, I need to do this alone, I would, that, that's a little bit more. That's a little bit of a red flag. Red flag. I need to go and I need to go alone.

Yes. And look, if you, if you can go and just keep your clothes on, then like, why not? Yeah. If that's, yeah, if it's optional. Right. And maybe it's a good price. I don't know.

Like, again, I just need to know, like, what's the, what's the, what is the appeal? Yes. Yeah, I think. And look, if he, maybe this is an entry point into him wanting to like do things differently, sexually or something. I don't know. If not, then you could just do a spa day or both of you just go and keep your clothes on. Yeah.

I think it warrants a larger combo. Yep. Agree. But yeah, I could see. I don't think there's anything wrong with you for feeling uncomfortable about him wanting to go to a co-ed naked spa without you. Yes. I think most people. I think if he can't understand that, that's also weird.

Yeah. You can't understand why it would be why you'd have more questions. Yeah. update on that one please yes for sure all right let's do some intentions hi jordan and dr naomi i love you both and the show so much my dad was recently diagnosed with parkinson's disease of course when anyone's loved one gets a hard diagnosis it's so hard not to spiral and google yourself into a dark place but with parkinson specifically it's truly not helpful because a nothing is changing right now it's not like getting a cancer diagnosis where treatment begins and we have things to focus on.

It's just a wait and C situation. And B, there's a huge range of symptoms and experiences speed of progression with Parkinson's. I joined the Parkinson's subreddit a bit ago and surprise, nobody's posting about how their symptoms are well managed and the disease is progressing slower than they expected. Laughing emoji. Can you help me with an intention to not spiral so much about what the future will look like? and instead focus on the loving, joyful, and for now, relatively able-bodied dad, I do have. Thanks so much, elder millennial with elderly parents.

Yeah, this is hard, and she's right. Parkinson's in specific or any disease like this where it's like such a variation in how the course of it goes and there's not much really you can do, but kind of wait and see how your individual body handles it. it really tests you because that urge to and obviously having a cancer diagnosis like she says is horrific but there is like you can turn your mind to like treatment and what do we do and when's the next here's our plan we got a treatment we got the next appointment then the one after that we're going to do

the check we're going to get the scan you know which sucks it's like the worst thing but and there's like But with that, it does feel like there's a potential end. Yeah. I think. Whereas something of Parkinson's, it's like, to my knowledge, it's not like. It can be managed but not cured. Right. Right.

So I think that's probably another tough part. It does feel like almost like a inevitable ending. Yeah. Yeah. So this is, this reminded me in a weird way. It's kind of different, but like from. the woman who she wrote in about, I think it was that she was losing her hair or. Oh, yeah.

And she was like embarrassed and her kids were embarrassed and like the whole family and kind of like, like, how do you handle? She was like worried about them judging her for like not looking like traditionally feminine. Yes. Yeah. And my advice there was kind of like, this is the universe. reverse, like forcing you to let go of your ego and kind of just like lean into a more spiritual

path of like this, you know, I am not my body and I don't have to conform to a certain beauty standard. Like it forces you. And this type of situation that this listener is going through is forcing her to let go of her urges to control this situation. Right. It's like she has no choice and she even sees it when she goes on Reddit and tries to find some semblance of like, oh, look, this person turned out okay, so maybe we'll turn out okay. Or, oh, look, you know, it's not going to happen.

I think she knows that. She's not going to find a magic thing that's going to suddenly make... Soothe her, yeah. Right, make her able to predict what's going to happen next and have some control over it. So the only option she has is to like surrender. her desire to control the situation, which is literally,

that's what every single person that we talk to is trying to do, control a situation. Right. And so she's on the fast track to a spiritual awakening that she did not choose. It's been thrust upon her. Yes, exactly. This is really hard. But I think, and I would say to stay,

stay offline if you can. It's very difficult, obviously, very difficult. Yeah. Because it feels, again, like, I think that's the control seeking of like, you know, again, either to be soothed or to feel like there's something you can do. Oh, this person tried this tea and it had these special herbs and maybe we could try this or, and look, I'm sure there are some things that are going to be helpful. But it sounds like for the most part it's going to be a good. day, bad day kind of situation. And yeah, it's like going on these threads is like playing a slot machine at a casino. It's like you pull and you pull and you pull and you pull and maybe on your 27th thread, you get someone that says, 16th comment. Right. Exactly.

You get someone. Something that makes you feel bad. Yes. And then it like temporarily makes you feel a little bit better. And then you keep going and you read all these things that don't make you feel good for. for this little burst of something that feels hopeful. So, yeah, I would definitely, I agree, stay off of that stuff. And I think sometimes these situations are the, you know,

it's like the push to find something deeper and bigger and something spiritual to get you through this, which is sort of like, you know, it sucks to have a dad with Parkinson's, but you get to spend more time with him. You get to be more caring towards him. to actually be probably more intimate with him than if you were just going on about your independent life and he was going on about his independent life, there might be like a little blessing hidden in this.

So the intention that I wrote for her is I will notice my urge to predict and control. Stop. breathe and allow opportunities for connection. So just like you at the doctor's office kind of noticed your urge to like predict and control and if I go up to the desk and I'm going to ask the woman and she's going to tell me five minutes and then I'm going to feel like I stop. I'm noticing that my mind wants to make this situation feel different or to control it

or to predict how it's going to turn out. And I just have to stop. take a breath. And in this case, I think this is an opportunity to connect with her dad because he's going to need her a little bit more

and she's going to be around him a little bit more and maybe they can have conversations about what is he afraid of and what is he feeling? And so this is terrible, but sometimes this could really

bring you closer and give you a sense of purpose that you never asked for. Could be helpful in some ways to like your relationship and I agree with that intention, not just for this, but for anyone listening

with any similar problem where you're trying to control the outcome. Yeah, like you said in the office, just notice. That's the first step. Notice, I'm trying to control this situation. I have no control over. You know, or like when I was stuck in New York

for three days, like, right. I caught myself, I noticed, like, I'm checking all the airlines for, like, who has a flight. I'm, like, trying to control this situation and it's just a time suck. Yeah.

It's like what you say about like riding the wave of uncertainty. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Secret to life. And the breath is really helpful because that just like creates a little pause, creates a space, brings you back into your body.

So yeah, this is a tough one. But it was sent to you for a reason. Yes. Good luck. Good luck. Let's do some triggers. Okay. I will do the first one.

Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I have a triggered scenario for you that is almost the opposite of the don't ask if someone is pregnant trigger. I struggle with my body image and had recently made a comment about it before going to my friend's house to sit by her pool. I wasn't feeling great about myself and at one point my friend asked me if I thought her stomach looked big. I told her no because it didn't and then joked and said, does mine?

mostly trying to deflect because I don't like talking about body size in general unless it's in a healthy and positive way. A few minutes later, my friend revealed that she's 11 weeks pregnant and claims that she knows I was lying when I said her stomach didn't look big. Afterwards, I started thinking, does she think I look pregnant? Is anyone without a flat stomach automatically pregnant? Do expecting mothers even show that early? How trigger can I be by this situation? My friend has had trouble with pregnancies in the past and I'm so happy for her, but I hate that this all had to happen in the context of body size slash image. Thanks for all you do, a not pregnant batch. This is kind of pretty triggering. This is like a very, I think this is like the friend's attempt to like be cute with

telling her. Yes. And it did not. It came out really awkwardly and weird. Yes. You know what I mean? Right. It was almost like a little trap be like she's kind of going to trap her and then, but then that's like the big reveal like yeah she's like revealing it in that way but it's kind of like if i said yes then it's just there's no winning yeah i don't think you need to do a pregnancy reveal like in a like cutesy way to your friend generally speaking right you could just tell them right um it's like almost like when you're like you already even do that with being engaged like no one cares as much as you do about this right thing for you and like better to not make it awkward by saying it in a weird way but I don't know.

Yeah. Just came out really. I don't think her friend is like malicious. I think she like thought she was doing something cute. And it just didn't land at all. Yes, totally. I agree. I think her being triggered, hence the trigger is like her own stuff around her own body image.

I get it was annoying. I was more annoying to me that she almost feels like she almost trapped her. Because if she says does my stomach look big, If she says yes, that's like rude. If she says no, then she's lying. And it's just like there's no winning here. Yeah. It's like if someone asked, did I lose weight?

It's like, what are you like? Right. Let's not ask. Right. It just, yeah. And especially because then she's like, now I know you lied. It's like, wait, what? And she's like, well, I didn't lie.

You'd look the same. Yes. And I do think that like probably more women than not are not really showing anything at 11 weeks. And not anything that anyone else is going to notice. You know, like, maybe you notice it because it's your body and, like, you know how your clothes fit or whatever, but I don't think that's noticeable to the general population at 11 weeks. Right.

Your friend sounds pretty awkward, I would say. Yeah. So it's just a weird way to announce your, like, a little test to announce my pregnancy. I could almost be maybe doing that with, like, a sister. or something. Like I could... Maybe if you were like six months pregnant, like, does something look different?

Ha ha. Yeah, this is definitely awkward. Did not land well. But triggering... I guess, you know, she feels like the triggering part is that like somehow that she feels like she looks pregnant? Right.

I don't... Like it's that she asked, did a friend hear her making a disparaging body comment? Is the other question? Right. Like she said she had said something before. Does the friend know this about her? Like that would make it maybe a little bit weirder if the friend knew that she had

her own body issues and they talk about body issues all the time. And then she was. Yeah. I, this was weird. I think the more triggering, the most triggering part about it is that she like called her a liar. Right. That part's, I don't know if that's what's even triggering her, but that's triggering,

that part's triggering to me. Yeah. And it just feels very like self-centered. It's like one, you assume everyone knows your body the way that you do, that they'd be immediately able to tell. Yes. Two, you're like, again, announcing this in like this kind of uncomfortable way that you're kind to think everyone's going to think is adorable.

Right. So yeah, I could see that. I could seem being like the friend's kind of annoying. Yeah. But I don't know if I would say it is super triggering. I mean, what would be triggering if she's now like mad at you because you lied to her instead. Oh, yeah. That would be crazy.

But if it's just like left behind. And this is annoying, but I'm going to give it like a four. I don't think this is like extremely triggering. Yeah. A three and your friend is awkward. Yes, that's it. I think you can make a joke about it like you trapped me next time you're pregnant. Let's just say I'm pregnant.

Just say it. Yeah. That was awkward. Don't play a game. Right. And it is her sensitivity. Like I get it talking about. It's like that.

awkward silence where she's like, does my stomach look big? And you're like, no. Right. Also, why would she ever say yes? Right. This is, this is weird. That would be crazy. That would be so much more insulting, especially if she wasn't. Right. This is just, this is weird. Yeah. All right. We're going to get it. We're going to settle on a three and a half. Sounds good. All right. One more. Oh, voicemail. Here we go. It's a voicemail. Let's play it. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Um, listener to everything that's, I've gotten, my daughter and all of her friends to listen to everything. I have a triggered situation that I just wanted to run by you. My 23-year-old daughter, who's my oldest, is actually here with me now,

and she's the one who hyped me up to call you ladies for your thoughts. I just went to the pharmacy and was buying a couple of items, and I was adding up the total of what I thought it was going to be. and in my head it estimated that it was going to be about $70. And the cashier told me, after all the items were scanned, that my total was $50 and a couple of cents. And I thought, oh, that's interesting, but who was going to say no to $20 off my pharmacy order? So anyway, I scanned and paid and walked out of the store.

And when I looked at the receipt, I realized that she had given me the Thursday senior's discount. So for context, the seniors discount is for those 65 years and older.

I'm in my very early 50s, have no gray hairs and I'm in pretty good shape. So honestly, how triggered can I be? Thanks so much. We'd love to hear from you ladies. Oh my gosh.

This is funny. First of all, you sound like you're 30. I was going to say that. I don't know how much voices change as you get older, but she sounded a lot younger than you sound super cool and young. And I'm sure you look young. Listen to cool podcasts. Exactly. So I get it. I can totally relate. It's so funny. Like I went once to get my nails done and I had my two girls and our sister Shira who's what, she's like 15 years younger than me. And we all went to. to get our nails done. And the ladies, like, we're sitting down,

just ready to get started on a nice relaxing nail day. And she looks at me and she goes, oh, you're the grandma. And I was like, nope, not the grandma, but thanks for throwing that out there. What if there was a discount involved? I might have been. It would be easier to swallow. Yes, it might have been. You get the grandma discount.

Yeah. So it's weird because, like, obviously it's super fencing. And yes, this is offensive. But I've had this feeling so many times where I'm like, I don't feel the age that others see me. And I get this, I get this woman, right? Because like, you know, even you said people tell you, like, I look good or whatever. And like you feel like you look good.

But like there is an acceptance point of like I'm not that young anymore. And I have to, that's hard, you know, like just walking through life. Like you don't see yourself. You're in your own, you're inside your body, walking around, like, feeling like, I look good, you know, especially when you get dressed up and you're out and you're like, I feel. I could be 25. I feel like on 25. And then like, you know, there's some like, you know, 25 year old kid that walks by and like

doesn't even look at, doesn't even look at me. And I'm like, wait, what happened? Like, I was getting all the looks, you know? And now I'm like an old lady. So, uh, right. Well, you're like, was there like a moment in time that this happened that I've, that I was no longer young, a young person? Like, when did that happen?

Yes. When did that happen? Like, I've been staring out these same, like, lenses the whole time. Right. The world is the same. But, like, there are these, they're just, I've had these moments where like there's just change. Changes in my, like changes in my face that other people see, that let them know that I am not that young.

And it's a tough pill to swallow. I get it. So yeah, I could see being triggered by this. I would be too. But I do have to have those moments where I'm like, I have to just accept that I'm not that young. But in this one, she was. I would like, I would like rationalize it. I would not do the acceptance. I'd be like the person, I was just really. friendly at the register and she wanted to give me the discount, but she knew I wasn't a senior citizen, but she figured like, why not? An older woman. Why not? She seemed nice. You know, she gives it to everyone. Yes.

I mean, look, I can't, and I, my mind does go there to like, well, you showed up to to buy $70 worth of stuff on a Thursday. Right? Right. Maybe you picked that day to buy like a bunch of pharmacy items because you knew it was senior discount Thursdays. So she doesn't want to fight. with you, maybe people do go up and fight. Oh, I want the senior discount. She's like, well,

you're 64. You can't have it. So she's just like, anyone that I even think wants it, I just give it to them. It's like the opposite of when you're like 28 and you get carted. Yes. You know, where they're like, you know, when you're like all flattered and they're just kind of like, I don't want to have to deal with like accidentally not carding someone, even though I know you don't look like you're under 21. I don't want to deal with like, you know, making this person irritated that I'm giving them a hard time about getting their senior discount. Most people don't come back and fight for the discount to be taken off. Right. Right. Right. Right. I do not deserve this. Right. So moral of the story is that like it's not that flattering when it happens the other way.

Yes. And it's not that insulting when it happens this way. Yeah. Yeah. Look, it's, it's, I, I, I, I was really upset when they thought that I was the grandma. And I had the same thing. I'm like, I'm not really letting myself go and look necessarily. Like, I don't have gray hair. And then I look and I'm like, what is it that people are, how do they know? You know, like, how do they? It's the wisdom.

You just have wisdom. How do they know that I'm not 25 anymore? I'm like, what's the tell? And it's like, actually I'm the babysitter. So yeah, I get it. It's hard. You're the same person that you were and you're looking out into what looks like the same kind of world. But like there's something here that lets everyone know. I would say I think with that with no discount, I'd give it a six. Because she got the disc- Sounds like a hearty discount. She got the discount. It's not like the woman said like you're over 65, right? Right. Like I think the fact that she just kind of gave her the discount, she probably. just gives like anyone who looks like they're over 50 a discount so that she doesn't have to deal with speaking to anyone. Yeah. Yep. I would agree. I really probably don't think she thought she was

65. If she's in her early 50s and she's like, you know, coloring her hair and in good shape, I'm sure she knew you were in 65, but probably was just trying to hook you up. So I will say that. No discount. I give it a four. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with a discount, rather. I give it. Yeah. I'm going to go with five just because I'm in her boat. I get it. It's like such a weird feeling after a while to realize like you're,

you're kind of a different category of like, you know, you're in a different age. Old milk. Yes. Oh, it's so hard. It's a hard thing to lean into aging. Yeah. But I agree. If you could take like your esteem out of it because it's only going to, it's not like we're going to,

Most people at least don't wind up looking younger unless you get like a facelift or something. Right. Like unless you're getting a major cosmetic procedure. Like today is as young as you're going to be. Sadly. But take your discount. Buy yourself a nice coffee. We did it.

All right. We did it. Use that $20. Yeah. Put it in some. A face mask. All right. That's our time.

Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Rebecca Steinberg. Editing by Will Maxwell. Guest booking by Allie Friedlander. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and everything's fine. And send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.