Oversharing - How Can I Cope With Ambiguous Loss?

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

As Jordana racks up firsts with her baby girls, she’s reacquainting herself with the wondrous magic of childlike wonder and Dr. Naomi drops in with the science of why awe is emotional medicine. After a listener’s pet goes missing, she sheds her shame about the guilt she feels for letting it happen and the hosts break down the grief of ambiguous losses. Elsewhere, one Betch side-eyes a “healthy” company discount that turns out to be less of a perk and more of a pyramid-shaped red flag. Another mom is stuck in her own head about her kids eating “junk” and is desperate for a mental mute button on the guilt chatter. A chronically ill listener leaves therapy feeling gaslit after being told her pain might be “in her head,” and a new mom gets unexpectedly scorched by a passive-aggressive Facebook comment that somehow turned stroller discourse into a personal attack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going?

How are you? It's starting to warm up here. It's been really nice for my mood. Yeah, I got all the spring has sprung texts in the group chat this morning. all the East Coasters are feeling themselves. Feeling the vibe, yeah. We've been in spring for like six weeks already. Okay, it's old news.

Old news. But I'm happy for you. The flowers are blooming. The bunnies are out. You're out for a walk. Walk. Yeah. It's nice to not have to put on like 16 layers.

So nice. A sun on your skin. Yeah. So check in. How's it going? How are the babies? Are they doing any little? tricks. They're smiling. They're smiling. Charlie let out her first, like, real, like, belly laugh

the other day. It was like, it was like drugs. It was great. Yes. It was really lovely. A baby laugh is, like, the best sound in the world. Yeah. It was like, it was just wonderful. Yeah. What made her laugh? What was the thing? I don't even know. Like, she just, you know, she got like a little tickle, but like nothing different than she had. had before maybe it hit a spot and she was sitting next to her sister. So maybe she was just feeling, she was just feeling the vibes. Yeah. So cute. It really is the best sound in the world. Yeah. You know what's so interesting about having kids or like little babies, I guess is just that like everything is so they don't like know. Like everything is new. And I think about all these like different

concepts and things that you know and like, you know, like, just like the way you think things are and just like they are starting from like totally fresh, fresh slate, clean slate. Yes. Even this morning, I was like, this is your first, I took them on a walk. I was like, this is your first morning walk. Like life. Yes. Yes.

Yes. So many things. And that's like, you know, we've, we've spoken about awe before, like the feeling of awe and how that real there is science behind the power of the feeling of awe that that is like out of all the emotions that you can feel that that is one that really can um can create the greatest impact to your mental health is experiencing the feeling of all which is probably why kids are generally pretty happy because they're experiencing it all the time yeah everything. You don't need to like take a trip and get on a plane and,

and, you know, fly through across the world for 12 hours to see a new site. You can just like take a fistful of spaghetti and drop it on the floor and you're like, oh my God, that was the funniest coolest thing. Right. I've ever seen. Like the, like you're taking a bath. It's just like, yeah, they're splashing the water and yeah, that child mind. We can get that. we can get a child's mind. You just have to remove the clutter. There are a lot of things that we can look at differently if we really look, if we really smell, if we really feel and see and touch and listen. You can do it right now. If you guys are out there listening, you can regain that sense of a child's mind. Yes, seeing things for the first time, feeling small in a huge universe by just looking at, again, it's springtime.

I think it's apropos that we're having this conversation. You go on your walk the same way watching the trees blooming, watching how that just happens all by itself. That is pretty awesome. There's no, we don't really understand exactly how that just happens, that the earth just knows how to keep becoming reborn every spring. And you walk past the same little bud and then it opens up. We can really do this. We can have these experiences of all, but you have to quiet the clutter when you're walking, when you're out in nature, just quiet long enough to really see what's happening. and it's pretty awesome.

Yeah. And you don't have to go seek it somewhere else. Like you can see it for free in your everyday life. You know, it's funny. I was thinking about that as I was, because we were considering like planning a trip in August, we usually go away pre-kids. That was something we did.

So I was like looking into like all these different options for where we could go and what we could do and all these places we could travel to. And one, it kind of seemed like a pain in the ass with the two kids. It just seemed like a lot of logistics and then I was kind of like, why do I need, why do we need to go anywhere? Like we could like I'm having a great time again just watching them splash in a bathtub. Yes. I could, yeah, I could experience that at home, save a lot of money and not drag them around to all these different places.

Yes. It's almost like it feels like, you know, there's like, like you said a lot. There's a constant like seeking for like new, a novel. It's kind of nice to embrace, I think, this idea of like really maximizing and enjoying where you are. Totally. And especially if you, I mean, you live in a place with so much nature and you live in a place with seasons where it's always like August is going to be different than April.

Just got to watch out for those ticks. Oh, yeah. That's true. It is going to be different in that way. And that's the thing about kids, too, is that they're always changing and you get to have this feeling of awe through them now that they're going to be experienced like. They're going to be a totally different person in August. Like that's twice as long as they've lived. That's like twice their, they're going to be twice their age in August.

Totally. It's crazy. And they're going to get it, pick a dandelion and you're going to blow a dandelion for the first time and watch them watch dandelion blow. Like it's. And you don't need to get on a plane to do. that, which is why, you know, people are always like, oh, when I have kids, I'm going to throw them on a backpack and we're going to travel the world. And then you're kind of like, I don't know. That sounds a bit annoying. Maybe we'll just stay. I could. But it's almost like

feels like I could, like I would almost do it just to say that I could do it almost, like, or like feel like I'm doing it or feel like I'm like this former version of myself. But I'm not. Yeah. I think that's a part of postpartum. A lot of people go through is like, am I a different, am I a different person now? Or am I, you know, you're like, there's a lot of identity stuff. I know a lot of people go through in terms of your old self and your new self and what you could do, your freedom that you had before and the new, like, the new kind of sameness that comes with, with kids.

And your body, too, you know, like, that's a big, like, the container for your identity is also very different. So that changes things a lot. Yeah. it's it's hard i mean i will say i'm 10 years ahead of you which is just you know it's kind of an interesting dynamic that now it is really easy to just throw everybody onto in the car or on a plane and go do the thing like it's really they pack their own bags like it's great and they'll remember it yeah my other thing it's like if i'm taking them now it's kind of for me it's not for they're

going to have no they're going to be just as happy in you know the backyard as they would be anywhere we drag them to. Totally. Totally. And yeah, I'm kind of like, let's save the money and take it for when, you know, they can remember it. And then they won't have to go to therapy for all the, for saying I haven't, you know, spent any time or vacations with them.

Yeah. All right. Well, I like it. Maybe we'll come visit again for another week if you're going to be around in August instead of traveling. Yeah, you should. Hanging out. Hopefully. hopefully the pool works. All right, let's.

All right, let's do it. That'll be my, that'll be my triggered for a different day. Okay. Oh my God. That was so funny where it was like the whole event was the pool party leading up to the pool party. The pool guy was there. It still bothers me. There was no pool party. That's all right. It's a luxury issue. It's okay. There will be a pool party this year. There will. It's the last thing I do. I'll, you know, get an inflatable pool. All right. Let's do it. Let's get into our show. If you guys have a voicemail, you can leave us a voicemail at 646363-6-6-2-94.

Or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. You can subscribe, get two bonus episodes a month, all the episodes ad-free and a day early. Or you can join one of Dr. Naomi's therapy groups. Come find us, Naomi Bernstein.com. We would love to have new group members. It's really, really, it's a really awesome space. Every time a new group member joins, they are welcomed with open arms. We have challenges.

We have community. And yeah, we would love to have you. So come find us. Naomi Bernstein.com. And I would like to issue a, I don't know if it's a retraction or an apology or whatever it is. I would like to. So I got a lot of shit about the episode that came out now two weeks ago.

Uh-oh. Where I was on the side of the girl with the rent. the rent-stabilized apartment who wrote in. I confused rent-stabilized with rent-controlled, which is what our uncle had. And apparently rent-stabilized means that the rent goes up, but not by that much. And therefore,

it's not like a passed-down family-inherited thing, which does change, I think, the way I look at the email because given that it was rent-stabilized and not rent-controlled, it did seem more selfish on the friend's part to keep it in her name and a little bit more manipulative. So retraction, apology. Given the difference between those two terms, I've reflected on the email. And I think it's more messed up than previously.

Okay. Love it. I was not aware of that slight difference either. So I'm educated. We're here to learn. Yes. Here to learn. Apologies.

Yeah. If you got to rent stabilized apartment, just don't ever leave. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. No, it's a good deal. I do think it was a little, it was intentionally a little bit sketchily, you know, not clear. So. Fair, yes. And also moral of the story is you got to be like really, really clear on what the deal is with regards to any kind of lease. But yeah, not nice on the friend's part. Let's get into our. Thanks for owning it. Yes. Let's get into our emails. else. I'll read our first overshare. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I'm writing in to get some advice

about how to deal with grief when a pet goes missing. My husband and I have two cats, one of whom got out of the house and has been missing for over a week. Our cats are our children and we are devastated. We think she got out through an open door that neither of us was aware of at the time. We've been doing everything we can to find her and help try to get her to come home on her own. We have not had any luck at all, not even a sighting of her. I've always had pets throughout life so I have experienced pet lost grief, but this is the first time a pet of mine has gone missing. This grief feels different, almost worse than the grief from a pet passing away. At least when a pet passes away, there is a finality or some type of closure.

With this type of grief, I can't stop thinking about how she is doing if she's okay and the immense amount of guilt for leaving a door open. There are so many what ifs and what could we have done differently, thoughts going through my head constantly, the not knowing it's absolutely eating me alive. Thanks so much for any advice you may have, a grieving cat lady betch. Oh, yeah, this is so hard. And I can validate how it's different because even as I'll just share, as I'm hearing this,

I'm kind of like, let's find it. Like, where are you? Let's put posters up. Like, let's get out there and find the cat. There's this feeling of we can still do something about this that feels both like activating and like you want to control it, but you're still kind of helpless and wondering, uh, wondering how she's doing. Yeah. Is this what you would call ambiguous loss? Yeah. Which is basically when something is like gone,

but not entirely or like it's kind of like unclear. It's like it's not in a, in like a traditional loss kind of way. Yeah, I mean, I think this is exactly what ambiguous loss is, which is like you don't have the thing physically, but psychologically, they're still potentially there. Or they're still there in your mind and there's no closure around it. So then it fills your mind with all the what ifs. Like I've had patience even, and this is not the same thing as a pet or whatever, but that have lost. like their wedding ring or a piece of jewelry or something where they're like they cannot sleep. They cannot get like a prized possession where it feels like it's got to be here

somewhere. Like I just there's you can't move on because it still feels like there's some hope that you're going to get this thing back. It's almost easier if it would have been like destroyed or something like that. Or you hear like a lot of people go through this if they have a loved one that's like, you know, has very intense Alzheimer's or dementia or something or, you know, they're physically still alive, but emotionally not there. That's almost like the reverse of this where you physically still have it, but like psychologically it's kind of gone. Yeah, there's a lot. It really is. It's very hard. I've heard this in a lot of different ways. Even a breakup sometimes can feel like this where you're like, okay,

you're still here, especially if you're like trying to be friends or, you know, you're still here. I still see you. We still talk, but you're not mine anymore. And there's a chance that maybe we might get back together. But right now we're not. Yeah, I think that's why part of why situationships are very painful. Yes. Because it's never like a closed thing. The person often comes back. They're like, it's not, there's no closure. It almost can, I think those can almost hurt more than a regular breakup. I think those three-monthers where you're like long enough to grow real feelings, but short enough to feel like you shouldn't like guilty or stupid for having real feelings. This isn't that. This is like your real pet that I'm sure you've had for, you know, at least

several years and you don't know where she is and you don't know how she's doing and if you're going to find her. And then on top of that, there's probably a lot of guilt. And I think this happens with missing people and missing pets and is the guilt of like, I'm not looking. Right. Any moment you're not looking. Yes. Any moment you're not looking is like, I should be looking, but then you're looking and you're not finding.

And at some point, you have to rest and sleep and you can't keep looking in the same place and you've done all that you can do. And there comes a point, which I hope by the time that this air is that she's back. So if she is, don't leave us hanging. please let us know. But like, you know, there comes a point when you're like, we can't just keep looking forever. And you have to kind of call off the search at some point. And that is, I think, when it becomes like the pain hits a peak, but then it becomes less of like this, you know, kind of like ambiguous.

It's the only way you can move on is when you reach that point where you're like, okay, I'm going to make up my mind to have some close. on this. And I do think it will, then you can start the healing, but it is really hard to start healing when you're in this place. This is a really great question that we haven't tackled before and maybe because it really is just so painful. Like that, to me, I think that's why that show that I think we both watched was like so riveting. It's all her fault. All her fault, yeah. The missing child thing is so riveting. because it's just like the worst nightmare, even more so, even than like a child, God forbid, that that passes away.

It's like, we don't know how, is he being tortured? Is he okay? Where is he? Who's he with? How's he doing? Like the guilt of looking or, you know, not looking. And this is really, really painful. So all I can really do is validate.

And I'm sure there's guilt that comes along with like the closure or the moving on. That's its own thing. if you decide once you decide to go that route. Like it reminds me of Casteaway. Oh, yeah. You know, when he's on the island and then he's four years later, he's like finally gets rescued and she's like got, she's gotten married.

And it's like, I don't know. It's just like this very very tragic movie. I find it to be like one of the sadder movies I've ever seen. Yes. Something about Casteaway. It's like it was this very odd, very, touching. That's a movie that you think about like in circumstances like this throughout your life. You keep coming back to that. Right. And then he gets back and she moves on and part of you was like,

I can't believe she would move on. But then you're like, yeah, he got into a plane crash and it's been yours. So yes. I don't know. Yeah, that is a very riveting theme too. I think is like that push, pull guilt thing. That's in a lot. That's how they get you like there's been a few movies and series that kind of hook you in that way moving on and then guilt, but then this person that you're or animal or creature that you're missing is still living their experience. Like Homeland, I think that happens in there too where like he's a P-O-W and then she moves on and then he comes back. So, it's a really tough human experience. Yeah. So do you have any advice for her like, I guess on like how to decide when it is time?

to move on or, you know, how to deal with it in the interim before she gets to that point? The only advice, I think, is around her own internal experience and the one piece that maybe she can control, which is not, like, not allowing herself because it's going to happen, but recognizing those guilty thoughts if she's not looking or if there comes a point where she does decide there's no more looking to do. Like she's looked and she's done everything that she can do. And, you know, she's kind of at the point where it makes sense to move on or to stop looking. To just be aware of those guilty thoughts and that that is just her mind's attempt at controlling a situation that is not within her control.

Because that's what guilt is. It's the mind's attempt at finding something, some cause and effect for something that really didn't. It just happened, you know, and it's a way that our minds are always trying to make sense of the world. And sometimes the world just doesn't make sense and bad things happen and sad things happen. And so just being aware of your mind doing that and coming back and saying, this is just,

my mind's way of trying to pull me out of grief and into intellectualizing this. And that's, it's grief. I mean, guilt is a way of trying to intellectualize grief and make sense of grief. Well, it's my fault. Then I shouldn't. And I, um, so other than that, as far as a timeline of how long to look, I think you'll kind of know when it starts to feel like, you know, it's not. working or there's you know it feels very repetitive and you know that it's starting to get to that

time and then at that point it's more about allowing the grief process to happen then which was the whole time you're avoiding that deep grief and what I would recommend there is really just letting the focusing on the feelings the tears running down your face the lump in your throat the heaviness the real grief and leaning away from the mind chatter piece of the grief, which is the guilty, you know, thoughts around the grief. Well, good luck. Let us know. Please let us know. I really, really, I'm going to be praying. I'm going to be thinking I'm doing it right now. I really hope you find her. She comes back. Sending really positive thoughts. All right. Let's do a betraceist. Do you want to read this one? Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, this is like formatted in prose.

or something. I thought this was a poem at first. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I'm a big fan of the podcast since its launch and recently subscribed. I've recently come to an ethical dilemma with a good friend of mine who I've known since high school and it has also become friends with my husband. On a recent outing to a farmer's market where we invited him for lunch, he mentioned some deals on bikes he gets to his work. Basically, he has an over 50% discount on city bikes and e-bikes. And since my husband and needs a bike, we were considering buying one through him. Here's the dilemma.

When we asked him about the prices, he sent us the list of available bikes and prices and said he would take a 10% charge for sorting out the logistics and ordering. Apparently, he's been making this offer to a bunch of other friends too. Concretely, we were looking at a bike for 300 euro, which means he would take 30 euro for himself. For e-bikes starting at a thousand euro, he would ask for a hundred euro. Personally, I found it very icky to ask your friends for extra money to keep for yourself, and it makes me not want to buy it through him.

At the end of the day, 30 euros is not going to make him rich, and in the long term, I feel like it evens out between friends. We often invite him over for drinks and dinner at ours. We have never been invited to his. My husband, who's a DJ, often puts him on the guest list for parties, and we're usually quite generous with our friends and would have for sure invited him for dinner to return the favor. While I understand ordering the bikes might be a hassle, I find it weird to make business from your friends without providing a real service. I'm wondering if I'm completely off in my opinion,

or should we just accept that this is the way he is and move on? I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts. A betch who loves a discount. What do you think? 50% is a really big discount. It is. Part of me is like if this was like a 20% discount, I think this is super tacky. But I'm also like this is a 50% this. I'm very curious what's going on on his end of it. Right. I'm surprised like his work allows him to get. Like I understand like the company, like some companies, especially if they're in the

business of doing things, give like an employee discount. But I would be surprised that they're letting him buy like 15 eBikes if he works for an eBike company. Right. at that discount. And now he's basically like starting his, he's making money off of like a company perk, which seems that part almost seems like more unethical

than the fact that he's charging his friends. Like if I had a cut, if I had like a betches merch company discount and I found an employee was like giving the discount to other people and taking a cut. Yes. I might be like that seems, that seems unethical. Yes.

I almost feel like the cut is for the risk because he's taking this risk in like using his company discount that's supposed to be for himself and maybe like his family or something. I don't know what that he needs that little bonus to make it worth it to be like doing something that he's not supposed to do more so than the how long does it take to click a couple buttons and buy a bike. I can't imagine it takes. I guess he's like sourcing the bikes or like show he. What does she say he's doing?

He says for sorting out the logistics and order. The ordering, again, seems like it would take a second. And logistics means like changing the mailing address to their mailing address. Right. Part of me feels like this whole thing is sketchy, right? If he works for a company and you get a 50% discount off an e-bike, I imagine that's like a large discount, right? That you wouldn't imagine they would want shared with like everyone you know, especially, like you said, that's the more unethical part of it. So part of me feels like this whole thing is sketchy.

Part of me also feels like you're getting a 50% discount off a pretty expensive item. So like just take it and do the thing. Is it kind of tacky? Yeah. Is it like like could he have done again, if you're good, if you're good friends like he said like you're saying, you invite him over. You kind of like you set him up with like on the guest list for parties.

He doesn't have to pay for that kind of thing. I think that makes it especially tacky. It's like, you know, you do, you kind of like, as friends, you do favors for each other all the time. Here, he's kind of like making money off of you. Because again, it's not like he's making, like he makes the bag bikes himself and he's giving it to you at cost. Like he doesn't even make them. He's just ordering it. Yeah, it's like a service fee.

It is, it is very tacky. Yeah. And, you know, it makes him look very like cheap and money grubbing, I would say. But he is being upfront about it. like he's being like, I'll do it. This is what I, this is what I like want to do it. Again, I don't think that's, is it ethical? I think it's more, again, I think it's more unethical

on terms of his relationship with the company than it is with you because he's being up. Everything is very upfront and communicative with you. Is it tacky? Yes. Is it unethical with her? I think no. Yeah, I agree. It is, I get even annoyed.

Like I sign the kids up for a camp and the, I guess they outsourced the camp to some other website. then now I have to pay like a service fee to just to sign just to literally buy the camp. And I'm annoyed about that. Like I'm paying camp. Then I have to pay a 10% fee just to sign up. So I'm annoyed about that. It's not even my friend.

So I get why it's annoying to just pay a fee to buy a thing. It's like I'm buying the thing. That should include the fee to buy the thing. So I get that it's a. annoying. The little devil's advocate other side of me says, you're getting an e-bike for half off. Right. And he's taking the risk of getting in trouble. You also have the option of saying, okay, this is annoying. I don't like it. I'm going to go buy this e-bike for full price. And you're not doing that because you're probably saving like several hundred dollars. I don't

know exactly how much an e-bike cost, but I imagine not that cheap. So overall, I would say this is uncool. I'd probably be irritated if my, like I have friends that have like friends and family discounts on different things. And if they were like, yeah, here's my friends and family discount. But can you Venmo me an extra, you know, 30 bucks? I'd be really annoyed actually. Yeah, you would be like, just give me the, just bake that into whatever my discount is. If you're at least to not tell, don't tell me. But you are getting a pretty good discount. So maybe just kind of, you know, take it and move on. And next time, don't put him on the guest list.

Make them pay to get into the club. Yeah. Yeah. Say you're charging a 10% fee for, you know, the logistics of texting someone to put his name on there. You're charging a promoter fee. Because your boyfriend's a DJ and you're the promoter. And so I should try that.

Very passive aggressive, but I like it. There you go. Yes. Even Stephen. Yeah. But if I were the company and I found out he was doing this, I would fire him. Yeah, this doesn't sound right.

Like you're making money off of your company discount. That's crazy. Yeah, I think he's, he's charging for his risk is what it sounds like to me, especially because he's like doing this with lots of people. Yeah, that's going to catch up to him. I don't think you need to punish him. Someone else is going to do that pretty quick. Yeah.

All right. Two cents. Yeah, good luck. Let's do some intentions. This one's a voicemail. Hi, guys. Love the pod. I'm calling to ask for an intention about something that kind of triggers me unnecessarily.

But I have two kids. They go to daycare. It's an in-home daycare, and the daycare teacher cooks all the food for them. And most of the time, you know, it's pretty standard food. And then other times it is not what I would make. I grew up with, like, your classic almond mom who really put a big focus on what we ate and whether or not we were overweight, whatever. and then as a result I ended up with like a raging eating disorder.

That took me a long time to kind of recover from and I'm arguably not really recovered from. So when I had two daughters, I read all the books. I read Fat Talk. I read Diet Proof Your Daughter and learned all about the different ways to present food. And yet I still find myself like getting hung up on like food rules like that daycare will give, you know, white bread toast for, you know, a snack. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like now she's never going to eat wheat bread and she's only going to like white bread. And I know that that's a projection of how I was as a kid. So in my fears around that and that, you know, translating to them.

And then also in the other hand, also really not wanting them to develop eating disorders and have an unhealthy relationship with food and whatever, like I obviously do. So I'm kind of just looking for an intention. I can tell myself either when I'm, you know, feeding them or when, you know, daycare is feeding them and it's not something that I would think is the most nutritious that I can kind of tell myself to get through those moments. Thanks, you guys. Bye.

I think this is very relatable. Obviously, like the, I think the eating disorder thing plays into it. But I think even without that, I think even I've found myself as a parent, there's like this constant feeling of like optimization on behalf of your kids, especially when they're not at the age where they're like choosing. Yes. What they're doing and like a guilt around not giving them like the optimal nutrition or something like that or giving them something that. or giving them something that's quote unquote bad for them. Totally. Yeah,

I heard about like formula from Norway or something. Yeah, that's what I'm part of the, like I have that thought too or even like any little thing of like, they're using plastic bottles that are heated. I'm like, you know, every decision just feels like,

am I setting this person up who can't choose themselves? Am I choosing for them in the best way? Yes. And when they're, I agree, when they're little, it feels so big because you feel like you have so much control at that point. So I guess from someone who's, and we joke about this, like the blueberries on the plane, you know, the organic blueberries. For your first. For my first. And then, you know, 10 years later, it's like, okay, we'll have some Cheetos. And Nutella.

Yeah. So like at some point you realize, in even this example with like the white toast versus the toast. Like I remember being in that place and this is like you said, not even, and we'll get back to the eating disorder piece of this, but even just from a, well, if I expose them to white toast, then they'll never want to eat wheat toast. And I was right in there. Like I remember trying to keep my kids from tasting white toast, for example, or even when they're very little, you're like, oh, let me give them their vegetables first instead of fruit because they're less sweet and then they won't crave sugar.

At some point, they're going to taste all the things and they're going to like what they like and they're going to want what they want. So even now, yeah, my kids would easily prefer white bread over wheat bread. And there's nothing that I'm going to do that there's going to make them prefer. I could give them wheat bread for every day of their life. And then they go to a friend's house and they have a piece of white bread and now they're going to want that. Like there's nothing really that you're going to do to forever prevent this.

But in those moments when they're little and you have all the control over every morsel of everything that goes into their mouths, it feels like a huge responsibility. And like their whole future is in your hands. Her childhood issues with food probably exacerbate what was already like a normal anxious thought for most parents. And it's around, I'm sure it's around if she's honest with herself, around like, you know, what's their weight going to be? And wanting, again, not even necessarily wanting them to be thin or not overweight, but probably wanting to save them from whatever anxiety she had around her own body. I do think even in some ways, like even the almond

moms or even her, right? If you can be honest with like, it's coming from a good place. I think a lot of where it comes from is because we live in the society that we live in, I am fearful that if you are overweight, that you won't find acceptance or you won't find a partner or you won't find friends or you'll be bullied or you'll be ostracized in some way. So I think the first step in some of this is really accepting and believing that your child will be accepted and loved no matter what their body shape is. Because that's true. That really is true.

They will find a partner. They will find friends. They will find a community that loves and accepts them no matter what their body shape is. So I think the first step for her as a mom is to really believe that and own that so that that will be part of her. own journey of accepting her child's body shape, whatever it turns out to be, so that she then doesn't have to cling to all these food rules because she really, when she sees her child and maybe she looks a little chubby or she, whatever the thing is that you don't, you are not reacting to that and then wanting to tighten up on the wheat bread versus the white bread or the

Right. And I think where like a lot of this stuff becomes hard is like, yeah, it is good to try to give your kids nutritious food, right? It is good to try to get your kids to eat vegetables, which are good for them and healthy and we'll make them feel good. But then it becomes this like line. It does feel like hard to go all or nothing. Like I might like it, it's easier almost to be like, I let my kids eat whatever they want or my kids can only eat the specific foods. Because when you're in the middle, every. You're in the middle, every. You know, it's easier. It's easier almost to be like, I let my kids eat whatever they want. And I'm like, it's just like, everything feels like kind of an annoying decision. Yes. You know what I mean? Like is it worth it to say something to the daycare? Because I would, it would be a little healthier. If they, if I gave, even if I brought a loaf of whole wheat bread, right? So I think it's almost harder to live in the in between than to adopt one extreme mentality

because you just have to make a million decisions every day. It's not like, oh, we don't eat those snacks as opposed to, okay, sometimes you can eat the snacks. Right. And then you don't know when. And it's the same thing when I talk with people about substance abuse, like alcohol, right? It's easier to be like, I don't drink. There's one decision to make. That's the decision not like, okay, I drink on the weekends, but not during the week.

I drink when I'm with people, but not when I'm alone. And then when I drink, I only drink beer, but I don't drink vodka. But if I drink vodka, I only drink one, but it's sometimes, you know, there's like a million in different ways that you feel like you can lose control. And I think that's what it comes down to. Like if I only, if I maintain this overall sense of control over everything, then I'm, there's no pathway to losing control, which I think is the ultimate fear for her is like to lose control over this thing.

So I think she probably is still struggling with this herself, it sounds like. And I, that's okay. I think the fact that she's writing in and aware that this is still an issue for her is the first step, that this is your kid eating us, you know, whatever it might be, one meal a day that isn't in your mind like the most nutritious meal. Maybe this is your way of saying like, okay, this is what I'm going to learn to adjust to. Like this maybe is the like a moderation strategy that I'm going to work on like that this one meal a day, I'm not going to have control over.

And it's not, you know, double fried Oreos. It's a piece of white toast. You know, it's not like anything crazy that they're eating every single day at this place. It's a piece of white toast and I can tolerate that. And, you know, I think sometimes it is a good. way to handle stuff with kids, especially as they get older, is like, you know, when I'm feeding them, I'm going to feed them what I'm feeding them. But like when they're out in the world, I can't control every single thing that they're eating. And that sometimes is a good like moderation strategy.

Yeah. And then that gives you like a little rule, which again, feels kind of nice. I think any kind of like, even if just for yourself or your own mind to have a rule of like, people do that with screen time too. I don't give my kids screens, but when we travel unlimited screens. And then you feel like, okay, there's, even if the rule isn't absolutely nothing, there's still like a guideline that helps me feel like I don't have to think about every decision every time or have guilt every other time. Yeah, totally. And I think it is kind of nice and a nice way for you to also allow them to enjoy it. Like, oh, wow, teacher gave you a cupcake. Wasn't that, was that delicious? Like almost like, yay, it's okay to enjoy a cupcake, you know, or whatever the thing is that you can encourage. them that it's okay to like have that and it's not a bad thing. I think the most important piece of this for her is that she she's aware of her own reactions and she's kind of keeping

her own reactions to what's going on in check, like allowing them relaxing when she notices it. I'm aware of where this comes from. Like I'm going to breathe into it, relax into it, kind of, you know, and not do anything most of the time. Like I don't think she should call the daycare and provide them with a loaf of wheat bread because specifically because she has this issue and specifically because she has this tendency to over control. Like I just, I don't think that's something that she should do because then where does it end?

And I don't think you can forever control that your kid's not going to have a taste for wheat bread or sugar or whatever it is that you're trying to prevent them. I think the, you know, and most importantly is recognizing what are you really afraid of? Are you really afraid of like premature death? If your kid has white bread, no, you're probably afraid of them gaining too much weight and then not feeling loved. It's not that I really don't believe that most parents are like these almond moms. I don't think there may be some of them, but I don't think they're like.

evil and they need their daughters to just be beautiful because it makes them feel beautiful vicariously. Maybe there's some that are like that. But I think a lot of them are just like, I want you to be loved and accepted and I don't want you to be bullied and I want you to feel good about yourself. Or maybe like they feel bad about their own weight and don't want you to have that experience. Yes. So I think it comes from the right place. But if you can reframe for yourself, like my child will be loved no matter what. You see people in all sorts of bodies all the time in beautiful, loving relationships and in big fun friend groups, like all the time.

So the fact, the proof is in the pudding. Like they will be okay. They will be loved. They will be accepted no matter what their body shape is. So I think it is important for you to believe that to allow her to her, her body to reveal itself within, like you said, reason, you know, not just eating, you know, within reason of eating mostly nutritious foods, but allowing her to occasionally, maybe when you're not in control of what she's eating, okay, she ate what she ate. Not much I can do about it.

But I think the biggest thing is recognizing when you're getting triggered, breathing, softening, allowing. And that is what's going to protect your kids from what you went through more than anything. So the intention that I wrote for her is awareness, allowing and relaxing into my own reactions will protect my kids more than anything else. There's no food decision that's going to protect your kids more than becoming aware of your own emotions. And not like making it into a bigger thing than it needs to be. Good luck. Good luck. Thanks for the question. Let's do some triggers. Hello, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I have a triggered scenario that I'm very curious to get your opinion on. I was recently diagnosed with a connective tissue disorder and

decided to go to therapy for the first time. I've been spiraling about the future and having a hard time accepting my new reality. I thought a therapist could help me find coping strategies. When I explained all of this to the therapist, her response shocked me. She asked if I've ever heard of Dr. Joe Dispenza, chiropractor, and explained that he can heal people and has even cured people who were in wheelchairs, et cetera. She said our thoughts create a reality and asked if I believe that. I pushed back and said, well, it's a genetic disorder, so I don't think so. I was not at all expecting to go to therapy and be told there is a cure for my condition. My rheumatologist doesn't sugarcoat things and has explained that there is no cure and I can

only manage the pain and treat joint injuries as they arise, which has been my experience so far. I googled Dr. Joe Dispenza and was surprised to see that he does claim to cure genetic conditions. The internet is very divided on their opinion of him. I completely agree that our mindset can change things, but I think of it in more actionable ways, like if I have a more positive outlook, it will be easier to make progress in physical therapy, eat healthy, etc. I also know that meditation can be extremely beneficial. But I find it hurtful to think that my pain is something that I manifested and can think my way out of. Dr. Joe Despenza may be helpful to some people, but in my opinion, he seems like a charlatan praying on vulnerable people. I don't think she's a bad therapist

and someone who shares similar beliefs might find her really helpful. What do you think? Am I being overly sensitive, would love to hear your thoughts. Sincerely, chronic pain fetch. So I'm not intimately familiar with, you know, Joe Dispensa, but I am. Oh, you are. Okay. So let's hear what you think. Dr. Joe Dispenza was recommended to me by my, um, Reiki woman. Okay. So that I went to for infertility stuff. So maybe he's why you have two babies right now. Who knows? But I like, I read the books. I got, you know, I was kind of like, I'm, that just goes to show my desperation at that time too. I was like, I'll try anything. You know, I used to be very like anti-woo, like, very much more like, if it's not scientifically proven, I'm not like interested.

But through, you know, this, the infertility stuff that I went through, I definitely was like open to exploring a bunch of different things. And I was, you know, I was recommended to him, not by a therapist. By Reiki healer. Makes more sense. Yeah, that, I think, is more in line. I remember bringing, bringing that kind of stuff to my therapist at the time, my old therapist. And he was kind of like, he thought that like a lot of that Reiki, like, psychic plant stuff, like, you know, he thought that a lot of that. a lot of that was like a way,

what he described it to me is like, his opinion of it was that it was a way to, to disempower women to give them, like, make them think that like if they think a certain way, things will happen and so that they wouldn't actually take actionable action. I don't know if I believe, I agree with that entirely either. I'm kind of like somewhere in the middle.

But I agree that it would be weird for a therapist to suggest that as one of their first things. Well, because a therapist like someone, you know, which I'm on the fence with this, right? Because typically a therapist, like a clinical psychologist, part of that is like you are scientifically trained in research-backed, evidence-backed information versus a Reiki healer. Even acupuncture is pretty more research-backed than like Reiki and, you know, things like that. So you do think a therapist who went through like a specific scientific training.

Yeah. Well, yeah, that part I think is triggering because of before that reason. And also, I think it's the main thing that would trigger me here is like someone suggesting someone else to give you the way when you're paying that person to give you, like to help you and give you that, give you advice and help you navigate this own thing. Like I remember I saw a therapist just as a trial. once. And I was explaining how I was having a tough time, having a decision in the fertility space. Should I do another transfer? Should I try on my own? Whatever it was. And she had said, I had seen her like two or three times. And she was like, well, what does your psychiatrist think you should do? And I remember being like,

if I want to know what my psychiatrist thinks I should do, I'll speak to her. Like, I'm here with you. I want you to help me make the decision. I don't want you to like, deferring. to someone else. Otherwise, I could just go right to that person. So this kind of seems like a little bit of like a foisting of the thing. And I think it would be okay if the therapist use some of those methods, which again is like positive thoughts and getting her to like think in a certain way about the situation. But to say like go check out this person and that'll help you, I find that to be like a little annoying. Right. Yeah. I agree with that. I think what was most triggering for me, in hearing this is the word cure, right? I think the idea that your thoughts could cure a genetic disorder

or meditation could cure something that's like living in your tissues, in your DNA. That part is triggering. I do think that probably what was happening and pain, so this is where I think there is a leg to stand on. And I agree with everything you said, saying like, hey, let this go see this person who can help you change your experience of your pain, right? Because I do think, again, I'm not familiar with this particular chiropractor, but I am familiar with the idea of like how your experience of pain can change based on your mindset. We've all experienced it, right? Like, I don't know, you have a pounding headache and all of a sudden your dog runs out the front door, right? And you need to get him. You're now no longer experiencing the same pain that you were

of your headache when you're like trying to look for your dog because you're distracted by looking for your dog. And then as soon as you come back in, you find your dog, you know, he's safe. The headache comes back. You know, like there's ways depending on your mindset and what you're focused on that you can experience your pain differently. So if part of her medical issue is that she's experiencing a lot of pain, I do think there is something to be said for the fact that maybe she could experience her pain differently based on meditation techniques or mindfulness techniques or mindset shifts. So that I think is real. But I agree with you that referring her to somebody else to do that is quite annoying because she's, I'm assuming, paying for the session and not asking

for a referral. She's paying for the session, like you said. I'm not asking for a referral to a psychiatrist. I'm here to talk to you. So, and the idea, like her assertion that he's like a charlatan because he is offering a cure that I see as, I do feel like that could be seen as like praying on the week if you are seeing someone who's been diagnosed with something and they're desperate and you're like, come, get on a plane, fly to one of my conferences and come see me. There are such a thing as some psychosomatic disorders where someone might think that they can't walk for whatever reason because and then they get up out of a wheelchair. Could that happen? Yes. Is that going to happen to you with a genetic disorder that's been diagnosed by a doctor who's told you that,

that's not going to happen for you? No. Probably not. Probably not. So I get the idea of like someone telling you to go spend a bunch of money to go see this person who's probably not going to do anything feels like they're praying on someone who's in a weak position. So I get that.

But to give her the benefit of the doubt, maybe what she was trying to say is your pain symptoms could be reduced by some of these methods that he uses. I think that is a realistic benefit that could be gained. The word cure would bother me also because I don't think that's a thing. I agree. And I think, you know, it seems like she just started seeing this person. I think if it were like a pretty good therapist, they would get to know you and see if that's something, some way that you like seem like you would be leaning or if that seems like something you're open to in that space.

Are you open? Like are you someone who would enjoy that? Sounds like she's not. As a therapist, I get that. Like, we're humans, right? I've definitely, like, come off of reading a book that I'm super excited about or feel really inspired by. And maybe it is Joe Dispensa. Maybe I have just, you know, listen.

Maybe I just came off a conversation with someone who got out of a wheelchair because they went and saw him. Right. there is this urge then I have a I met with that person at 9 a.m. and then I have a session with her at 10 a.m. Right. And there's this urge maybe to be like, oh, my God, I just met with this person at 9. I'm meeting with you at 10. This is the answer.

But like you said, this is my first session with you. I'm just getting to know you. Like I'm not sure if this is right. Like I need to be able to check myself also as a therapist and realize like, this is a different person than the one I saw at 9 o'clock. You have a different condition. Yours is genetic. Like, I need to check myself. She was probably just coming off of some exciting, inspirational thing. Maybe she listened to his book or read something. But it is her responsibility to like kind of check herself and realize that this is not a one size fits all. And this is not

what this person is coming to you for. So I think it's okay to like incorporate that and then sort of weave it into like your own advice. Yes. About positive again. And I think I read his books. I've like listened to some of his meditations. I think like most things in life, there are aspects of it that I do think are helpful and aspects of it that I think are a little bullshit. But like the thing is, as with everything, you never really know what the thing that worked was. Could have been the crystals this whole time. Could be. I would get. give it, but I think this is triggering, especially because it feels like a minimization. And I think the other part that she says is also kind of annoying where she's like the idea

that if only she had thought differently about this, she would not be in pain. Like the pain is her fault. That's her own understanding of what was said here. I don't think that's what was said. I could see why she came to that. But just because someone, like I have a lot of patients that have psychosomatic pain. Right. And the idea that, I don't know, even for example, if you were sexually assaulted, right, when you were younger and you have a lot of tightness in that area, like, when you're touched, I believe that there is tightness in that area, that there is pain there when you're touched.

That doesn't mean there is no pain, but is it coming from a psychological place? yes. So, you know, psychosomatic pain is real pain. If this were, like, I don't think that if someone can get pain relief based on a shift in mindset, it means that they were causing their own pain or that it wasn't real or that someone doesn't believe you about your pain, that you were really experiencing that pain. Like anyone who has psychosomatic pain, I really, believe they're experiencing that. It's not they're making it up or they're creating it. Your psychology is a part of you as much as anything else. Right. Yeah. And I do believe in the brain, you know, like the brain energy connection. Like I do think there's something. Yeah. Whether or not it's

like the magical thing that he's making it. That's a different story. But that's not really what she anyway. So, but yeah, I think the idea of like deferring this to like someone else for someone that doesn't know you that well that's, does, has an expressed interest in that kind of alternative stuff, I would give it like a five or six. I'll agree with a five. I don't want you to take on that she's saying that like you're creating this because there is a way out of it using mindset. That I just want to, I want her to release that from this. But yeah, I'll give it a five. You didn't ask like it's what it's you go in to talk to someone and then they're referring you to somebody else. Just that right there is no way to annoying. Yeah. All right. Let's do one more.

Hi, Dradana and Naomi. Here's a triggered scenario for you. I recently started a very chill walk run group for moms and have been marketing it in our local moms Facebook group. We've had a couple of meet up so far and one woman has come to all of them. She's been super friendly in person. Today, I noticed she shared a post in that same mom's Facebook group about how babies must be facing their moms and strollers and how forward facing strollers are supposedly contributing to speech delays. The post is framed as, I asked the speech pathologist why kids are delayed and references something called the silent walk. Here's where I spiraled. My Baby is six months old. My jogging stroller only faces forward and I'm pretty sure I was the only one on our walk with an infant facing forward. I did not realize this was apparently a developmental hazard. Posting this as a general PSA in the same group where I'm actively building community feels so passive aggressive. I know speech delays are complex, but it still made me feel awful and yet another reason us moms can't do anything right. So my question is, how trigger can I be when some.

someone I'm building community with shares content framed as loving advice that just feels like mom shaming. Sincerely, a betch quietly Googling, does stroller direction matter? This is triggering. I think that's like a very passive, aggressive kind of post where she's posting it as like a general PSA, but she sees her in the group every day and she's the only one that has it. It feels like when you, you know, when the middle school teacher is like making an announcement that everyone has to wear deodorant.

But you're the, you know, everyone knows who the smelly kid is. Yeah, you think you're pretty sure that she's aware that she's, that she has her stroller facing the quote unquote wrong direction. Yeah, I think any kind of general PSA about like something you heard is the right thing to do, I think is irritating generally, even if she wasn't doing that. Yeah, I agree. There's so much information. And this one, honestly, I mean, I'm not a speech pathologist, but I cannot imagine.

I mean, Emily Oster, let's ask her. I cannot imagine, I doubt it, that you're one hour, three times a week walk where you're not talking to your baby for that. Let's say your baby sleeps through the night and sleeps 12 hours a night at three months and you're not talking to your baby for those extra three hours. Are they going to get speech delayed because you're not talking to them because they're sleeping through the night? There's your same three hours that you would have spent talking to them in the stroller. I cannot believe that if your baby is a, you know, unless they are having some kind of issues already and they need extra speech stimulation that they're going to be delayed because your stroller is facing the wrong way, unless you're, I don't know, training for a marathon 20 hours a week with your baby. in the stroller. I agree. I think any kind of unsolicited parenting advice is like a big, like, fuck off just generally. It's funny because you see that everywhere. And I mean, like,

that's all on my algorithm, like, do these four exercises with your newborn so that they can, like, sit up in time. It's just kind of like, there's no way everyone is doing those. Most babies eventually crawl or turnover. And it kind of like irritates you because every time you see it, you're like, well, I haven't been doing the bicycle with the legs every day for five minutes. And it does make you feel like you're behind or doing something wrong when there's like really like a million ways to do some. There's a million ways to raise a baby that are all good in their own way. Yes. So I think post, I think generally just posting like a friendly PSA about that, just generally, even if she wasn't doing that, I'd be like this person's kind of annoying and sucks.

But the fact that she's in the group, she's the only one doing the thing. It feels kind of targeted. Like I would almost feel better. I'm trying to think, like, if she was really concerned and we were on the walk, maybe they're, no, she can't. I wouldn't really do it either. But if she had asked her. Right.

Do you think it's okay that I'm putting that the babies in this stroller, I noticed the other babies are facing the moms? Yeah, that may, well, I spoke to a speech pathologist and she mentioned. But I'm just like, I don't know unless it's like this really dangerous thing. Yeah. This is not a dangerous thing. Like babies developed in all sorts of different ways. I mean, yeah, I just think this is exactly what you're describing.

This is just a concoction of something that is maybe if your baby is already speech delayed and they need extra. But this is like an extenuating circumstance that I don't think is worth. worth putting into the mix when she's the one that's like leading this group and doing something really nice and putting this together and you're going to put like, I agree, passive aggressive. If you really did feel the need that you were so worried about her baby that you needed to say something, say it to her personally and don't post it in the group. I think on the list of like dangerous things, this seems pretty, pretty low. Yeah.

I don't hope she doesn't run into the white bread mom. Yeah, the excessive amounts of information on what everyone's doing wrong, parenting. And I can't imagine, like you're saying, with like lifting their head and how to tummy time and how to do it right. And now I saw something about the tummy time isn't the right tummy time. You have to do it on your arm because it's too stressful for them and you shouldn't stress them out with the tummy. It's just like, ah. It's exhausting. A lot of pressure. They're going to be fine. It's in their genetics. They know how to turn into humans. They know how to talk. They're going to know how to walk. They're going to know how to set up. They're going to know nobody did tummy time 20 years ago. And at some point, if it's not going right, believe me, you'll know and you'll get them the resources that they know. You don't need to watch them like a hawk and. every little developmental bit and piece.

And I think sometimes the best way to look at this is realizing who's making the money behind the posts that are trying to make you scared. Follow the money and you'll see why people are creating this content to freak you out. They want followers. So they can sell you something. Yes. If they're trying to sell you something, tune it out. Well, yeah, I would give this post a six and a half.

I just think, yeah, because of all the content are ready that moms are getting and the mom guilt and shame, yeah, and you're trying to make new friends and now you're feeling, I would actually turn this around because I think all the moms in this group are experiencing exactly what we're talking about. I think I would own the shame and I would talk to someone. I would just open up about this to someone in the group and be like, find someone to talk shit with. Yes, somebody posted this thing and oh my gosh, I felt so embarrassed.

And I had no idea. I'm sure no one else has heard of this because I think it's an overboard. I've never heard of that. Wacky thing. For the record, I pushed all my kids facing out. I always thought, let them look at nature, let them look at something other than my face for a change. like change up the environment. They can all speak.

Yes, they all speak wonderfully and there's no problems at all. But I would just almost kind of use this as a bonding opportunity with the other moms in the groups of like, oh, wow, I felt so I never knew this was a thing and I felt so shameful and I never. And now they'll be like, oh, there's so many things to worry about. And then they'll be like, yes, me too. And I feel guilty and shame about this. thing. Now you're going to have a friend and you're going to bond over this thing that

felt really shameful and you felt really outsider and now you're going to be on the inside of what they're all experiencing, which is shame in one way or another. And I think as with all things in life, when you get the urge to give unsolicited advice or PSAs or all that shit, no one wants any advice they haven't asked for. Yeah. If someone wants advice, they will ask. They'll ask you. They'll ask someone else. They'll figure it out. No one's like, looking for your candid thoughts. Yeah. This one is is pretty irritating. It just seems like excessive. All right. Well, good luck. All right. That's our time. Great work today.