Oversharing - How Can I Get My Husband To Help Out With Our Baby?

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Jordana and Dr. Naomi discuss whether there’s a “right” and “wrong” way to relax. Our Overshare comes from a Betch struggling with decision paralysis around choosing an egg freezing clinic. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener whose friends always expect her to pay for them when they go out. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for navigating a sudden loss of libido. And we’re feeling triggered by husbands who shirk parenting responsibilities, and doctors with insensitive bedside manner. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going?

Is it as hot in Texas as it is in New York? You know, it's funny, everyone complains a lot of my patients. are from the East Coast and everyone's like, it's so hot, it's so hot, it's like 92 degrees. Like 92 degrees is like a cool breeze in Dallas. So, but I get it. It's whatever you're used to. But yeah. I guess it goes to show.

It's all relative, though. It's all relative. I mean, I just, you just get used to it. Like, you just accept it. So it's not even. Yeah. I mean, again, I prefer this weather to like extreme cold. Like, I'd prefer to be like sweating.

then just like can't feel my face because it's just so cold out under 17 layers. Yeah. Oh, when it's cold, I feel like my shoulders like inch up towards my ears and like my whole when it's warm, you almost are forced to like relax a little to like embrace it. And when it's cold, in order to deal with it, you have to like kind of tense up and hold your whole body tight, which doesn't, to me, it just kind of messes with my whole energy. I guess it's a personal preference. And to me also, it's like when you're leaving the house when it's cold, you have to spend like

10 minutes like gathering all of the things so that you don't freeze to death. Like your snow boots and your jacket and your gloves and your hat, just making sure every part of your body is potentially covered. Yes. And just a reminder to everyone who's complaining about the heat, you do all that and then you get to the place and then you're removing all of the items. and you step inside and then you start like sweating because it's heated. And you have to put your gloves someplace and your hat someplace and your jackets

hanging over the back of your chair and dragging on the floor or the dreaded coat check, which is the worst thing in the world. Totally. I think the thing that I think of when I think of like skiing or winter is like when your nose is running and then you kind of have to wipe it on your glove because there's no tissue and it's like running. You've got to get rid of it. And then you're just like these these like snotty gloves kind of all season. Yes. Unless you remember to wash them. It's really nasty. So let's remind everyone of why this is better than the alternative.

That is so gross. Whenever you think you're hot. I actually had this invention back in the day when I had small kids that was like a wristband that had like several layers. of felt so you could just like kind of wipe their nose and then fold a layer back and then use a fresh layer and wipe their nose and fold I guess you could do it for skiing. Could you do it for yourself? Yeah. Yeah. You could do it for yourself if you're disgusting. But like for kids it's more acceptable. Yeah. But like for skiing instead of like continuously wiping on that same dirty thumb that you keep like wiping your nose. with you could have like a little pin back piece of fresh soft like fleece and then you pull it off

and wash it at the end genius I love that somebody invented yeah I mean I can't be the only one who does that no I totally relate that's why I was laughing so hard it's gross we've all done it yeah it's disgusting but here we are so I was trying to meditate this morning um and I was going to ask you a question as I feel like you are a professional meditator sure as professional as they get. Why do you need to like sit up straight in order like to meditate? Like I prefer to lie down personally. But then I always feel like well I feel like a little guilty because like the person doing

the guided meditation is like sit up in your chair. Right. Make sure you're like like you know your posture is like a certain way. Right. And I kind of ignore that. But then I'm like is that how much does that matter? Is that defeating the purpose or I wanted to get your your take. on it. Yes. I don't think it's that matters that much. The idea is, and I don't know if this happens

to you, well, there's a few reasons. One, if you're lying down and you're just relaxed, like laying back in the bed, like in the most comfy posture, you're likely to fall asleep, which is not the point, right? The point is to have like an embodied wakefulness. Like, it's almost like you want to be even more awake, like even more alive and more conscious. and more aware when you're meditating. So if you're lying down, I mean, if you're doing a meditation for sleep, then great, the point is to fall asleep. But if you're doing like a beginning of your day meditation,

which it sounds like you were, it's kind of like you want to feel more energized and present and alert and aware. So if you're if you kind of are embodying, like even as I'm saying it, Like if you're embodying like an alert posture, like sitting up tall, it's going to help you stay very present and aware. Like almost if I said to you, you're going to have, these are going to be your last 10 minutes on earth. And you can, you know, be in this moment and absorb and be conscious and be present and be with everything that's here. you'd probably be like alert like I'm so don't want to miss anything I don't want to miss anything I want to be like really here and sit up tall and be aware and you know so I think that's kind of the concept

that being said I'd rather you lie down and do it than not do it yeah that's an interesting point I think about that that that that that uh what you're saying about wanting to like not wanting to miss it wanting to experience it, but also kind of like meditation does feel relaxing in a way. It's funny. So I got a massage the other day. And I feel like when I'm in the massage, part of, you know, you don't have your phone and you're like in that mode. And part of me is like, make sure you're like, like, like, part of me is like relaxed.

And then the other part of me is like, make sure you're like paying attention to every minute because it's expensive. Yeah. And like what's going? You know what I mean? Like where like what's going on? in your body and how nice it feels. And then the other part, you know, I kind of like, I feel like, I feel like it's a dual experience of like relaxing and not thinking about anything, but then

being like, oh, I want to like make sure I'm enjoying this. Right. Stressing out about making sure that you're paying attention to your massage. So it's not like over and you're like, oh, wow, it's like it's over. It happened already. Right. Totally. Like falling asleep is kind of the worst thing. Like I didn't pay however much money to fall asleep here. Right. Yeah, it's true. I mean, And that's the other piece about meditation that is a challenge sometimes. It's like you don't want to be like trying really hard and pushing really hard and, you know, like striving. So you kind of want to relax into that open consciousness.

But that is a thing in meditation that it's almost like if you're trying hard, that's not really where you want to be. You just kind of want to let the experience unfold and pay attention. to what's happening without like pushing like we do in the rest of our life to be like the best meditator or make sure that we're doing it right. That's why it's so hard to me. It's like you're kind of like not really sure, you know what I mean? Like you like want to try and pay attention, but then you're trying too hard and then you're like like it just all feels like you're kind of, it's hard to feel like you're doing it right. Right. Well, honestly, if you're sitting and you're doing it

and you're aware of what's happening and you're just aware of the fact that you're trying to do it just that moment of, okay, this belongs to. I'm aware that I'm aware that that's like the whole untethered soul thing for those of you that haven't read it yet. I suggest that you do of just like stepping back and being the witness of that whole process without needing to say, oh, that thought is bad or that thought shouldn't happen or I should be doing this or I'm trying too hard, like just being the witness of all of that happening. Right. Just observing the thoughts. Observing. Not judging them.

Non-judgmentally observing everything that's happening and it's all okay. Even if you sit down to meditate and you spend 20 minutes worrying about something at work, okay, you sat down. Did you still do it? Does that count? Yes, it still counts, especially if there is just one moment of being conscious that that's where your mind was. Right. Okay. That's good to know. That like makes that I think that makes it feel more.

Because I think people stop doing it because they're like, all right, I'm trying this. It's not. I can't stop like being distracted. I can't stop doing that. I'm speaking for myself where I'm like, what is the point of this? You spent 20 minutes like hyper focused in on this, uh, the anxiety that I was having about this other thing. Yes.

And that's okay. And it, that's honestly. the biggest takeaway is that whatever happens is okay. It's just about trying to find that one moment where you're conscious of what's happening. Right. That's it. Even if what you're conscious of is that I've been thinking about work for the last 20 minutes. Okay. That's all right. And the more you do it, the more you can have that consciousness instead of first having it after 20 minutes, you'll have it after, you know, five minutes and then you bring yourself back to your breath for just one singular breath even.

And then your mind goes off again. And then you're like, oh, there it goes again. And then you bring it back. So even if you spend the majority of your meditation lost in thought, that's okay because it's worth it for those few moments. But you realize that you're where you were spiraling to. Yes. Because you would have been doing that anyway.

If you were doing something else, you just wouldn't. and have been conscious of it. So it's worth it for those few moments of consciousness. And it is just, you know, finding moments to take that deep breath, even if it's in a 20-minute meditation, even if you are only conscious for a minute of it. It's still, you're doing it right. You're perfectly fine.

Okay. So like that. I think that makes it much more, feel much more accessible or attainable, not so much pressure to do it correctly. Yeah, totally. I'm glad you asked that question. And I'm glad that you did your meditation this morning. Yeah.

Maybe I'll try to sit up next time. Yeah. If you can, it's great. It's like what mom used to say about religion. Like, whatever you do is good, the more you do is better. And, you know, don't judge it. Like, don't judge yourself. Don't judge other people.

Like, just kind of do it you can. It's better to do it that way than to start criticize. That's the last thing you need. It's to be criticizing your meditation. on top of everything else. Yeah. That's a good point. Okay.

I'll try that. I'll let you know how that goes. Keep me posted. And if you guys are out there and you're interested in joining one of my groups, we start with a meditation every single session. And we are starting a meditation challenge where we're trying to do, you know, 30 days of meditation every single day. The more you do it, the more it gets comfortable, the more you see the benefits of it.

How many minutes each day? 12 minutes. A day. Wow. 12 minutes a day for 30 days. That's the goal. And again, if you miss a day, you jump back in. Not the biggest deal, but being intentional about it helps.

And having a community where we're all the same struggle that you're coming and saying you're having. Like we're talking about that stuff in groups. We're figuring out like how to kind of navigate our critical self-talk versus this, this activity that's supposed to be the opposite of. that. And what do you get to you if you win? Do you win? Oh, this is just this is just this is just a challenge. Maybe we'll do something for our listeners down the road, um, where they can win a prize. You're like, I just told you that that's not the point. No, you just get to, uh, you get to get in the prize is that you get in this routine of meditation. Like when you're in a,

like a flow with regular exercise, you're, kind of like, all right, I feel good. This is just coming naturally to me. This doesn't feel like such a struggle anymore. Totally. That's the prize that you get. 40 days to make a habit. Totally.

So, yeah. Yeah, if you're interested in joining any of my groups, shoot me an email. Naomi Bernstein-Syke at gmail.com. I always have kind of rolling openings. And yeah, on your own. Get out and do it. Yeah, get into it. I've heard anecdotally these groups are

like amazing, sometimes better than even regular therapy or different, I would say. You get a really different kind of perspective. Totally. I mean, there really is a lot more depth to it, I think, than regular therapy because you're getting the therapist, you're getting me. You're not getting me and you alone every single week. But, you know, let's say we basically have a one-on-one therapy session with other people in the room, you know, whenever, let's say it's every few weeks that you get to share your personal issue, but then you get to also, you know, interact with other people in the group, get feedback from other people in the group. And we do have in the moment things come up interpersonally between group members, which is the best way to kind of work

through, okay, what was your urge there? Did you, was your urge to be a people pleaser and say the thing that you think she wanted to hear or was your urge to be confrontational and we can kind of play it out within the group? Right. Versus like, okay, you go home, you have an interpersonal interaction, you come back and you tell me about it. It's happening in real time.

So there's a huge amount of depth to group therapy. Yeah. Check it out, guys. Naomi Bernstein-Syke at gmail. Do you want to let them know the price? Yeah, well, it's $85 per session. And I ask for a four-week commitment if you guys want to join. So you have to kind of commit up front to at least four sessions so that I know that

everybody is committed, that people aren't just popping in and out because it is partially about developing these relationships and learning to build trust. So, yeah, that's the deal. And then after that, after your first four sessions, if you don't think it's for you or it's not working or for whatever reason, you know, it's not your thing, then you can be gone and be done. All right. Naomi Bernstein's psych at gmail.com.

Check it out. I wish I could join. I think that would be a little weird. Maybe you could do a little guest cameo. Poppin. Yeah. The least expected. Everyone would be shocked.

Oh my God. That would be really funny. Let's get into our episode. You guys ready? If you guys have a voicemail that you want to leave, you can leave a little. us a voicemail at 646-363-6294. Or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. That's oversharing at betches.com. I'll read our first one. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I'm a 32-year-old single female looking into freezing my ex. I've had appointments with several clinics in my area

and narrowed it down to two. I've done a ton of research, posted multiple advice groups on Facebook, and have spoken to people who have personally gone through the process. As this is such a huge life and financial decision, I want to make sure I'm choosing the best place. However, I now feel so overwhelmed with information and have gotten mixed reviews on both places. There's great reviews on both, but what's concerning is that the negative reviews are usually along the lines of, I felt like a number, don't go here. I had an awful experience, et cetera. I can't put this decision off much longer, but I don't want to go through the preliminary steps again at another facility. I need to choose a clinic very soon and every time I think I've made a decision, I second guess it. I'm so emotionally drained

already. I'm concerned the hormones will make it worse. I'm also worried about putting my life on hold for three weeks and the emotional aftermath. I've seen posts of people saying they have felt very depressed after. How can I make a decision without constantly wondering if it's the right choice? At this point, I just want to get it over with. Sincerely, a drained batch. I like this email a lot. Because although, I mean, it's very important obviously it it refers to egg freezing I think I feel this way all the time about so many decisions that I have to make like because I mean the beauty of the world right now is that there's an internet and you can find out so much information about anywhere you're going but I also think that's kind of like a bad thing in a lot of ways is that you get so many

opinions on every single thing that you could possibly do that it does feel like this person it almost creates more anxiety and not less. Totally. It's like paralyzing sometimes the amount. Like I just wanted to buy a pair of shorts like running. Like I wanted to buy like a fake Lulu Lemon like running short on Amazon. And Amazon has so many reviews and I'm like just want to buy this pair of like $23 shorts. And I'm there.

I'm like 40 minutes later I'm reading reviews. I was like smack myself. Right. It's crazy. Just press buy now. It's absurd. No, totally, I have that. And like, that's, I mean, that's, it's a low level thing.

But it's also kind of like, well, why do I want to waste money on something that's, or if like, you know, if you get something and it's bad, you're like, oh, I should have done more research or, you know, I was looking for hotels because I'm going to France next month. And when you're reading the hotel reviews, it's like, you can get like 16 amazing reviews. And then you see one that's like, and I, you know, I got bad dogs or something. Right. Not even like the check-in experience, horrible. They're, you know, the staff is awful or something like that.

And usually those people leaving reviews or people on like either end of the spectrum. They're either like the person who had the best luck with the place you've ever seen or something small went wrong and that person freaked out. Yes. You have to realize that most of the time, these reviews are probably skewed negative because if most of the time, if everything went great, you go along your merry way unless you're like, a super kind person that just wants to put some like positive energy into the world and give a positive review or it was like an outstanding experience that you've never had before. Most of the time, the only time you're going on to write a review is to complain about something. Right.

So yeah, this is this can be, I could see why she's kind of paralyzed here with a decision. But at this point, you almost just like put them in a hat, pick one out and move. she seems like she just needs to get unstuck. Yeah. I think there's a time. It's kind of, I mean, and it's a weird thing because I do agree with you.

I think there's a time in any decision for anything where you just have to say, I'm going to do this. I've done, I feel confident. I've done enough research to have a general feeling of like, of positivity about this thing. And it could, you know,

I could, I could do research for another three months. and something, and I could still choose a place where I have a negative experience. Yes. Or I could just pick out of a hat and not have done any research and have found a place that I have a great experience. Yes. Yes.

I totally agree. And I think for her, it probably, the idea of like you feel like a number or whatever, truthfully, that type of thing, although that's not ideal. And I would love it if she could find a place where she felt really cared for and paid attention to and, you know, got great kind of. of, you know, above and beyond bedside manner. The truth is, she wants eggs. She wants them to be healthy and she wants, you know, as many as she can get. And that's the ultimate goal. If they, you know, don't smile when you walk in or, you know, again, that would be great. That's kind of the

icing on the cake or you feel like you're a number. I'm not saying that's ideal, but the outcome is what you're looking for. So the other stuff, you can go home and vent about it to a friend and say, oh my god the lady at the front desk was so rude or you know they didn't even whatever it is whatever that means it was just a number like they don't take time to answer in-depth questions as long as you have an idea this place knows what they're doing like i've had doctors that have the worst bedside manner but they're smart and they're great and they do what they need to do and sometimes i'm like all right sometimes they're more likely to have a bad bedside manner they're almost like their brain works that right you know that way yes so it doesn't

doesn't feel warm and fuzzy, but like get the warm and fuzzy from your friends and your family and your therapist or whoever else and just go in and get your eggs. Right. Is there like an ideal number in psychology of like opinions to get before you do something? Oh, I don't know if that's if that's the case. I mean, I would say, I don't know. I just feel like any two seems sufficient, three tops. I don't think you want to be going crazy with...

Yeah, I think after a certain point, I mean, I think the ideal situation is to get an opinion from someone that you know and trust who has been to that place. I think that trumps any review that you read online because those reviews, you have no idea what the personality is of the person

that's writing there with those reviews. So if you can find someone who's used a certain clinic and get their take, I think that's all you kind of need one or two people who have actually been to the place. Yes. And if you can't, then, like, I agree. Like, pick five online reviews, read them and the don't. I think the other thing to keep in mind when you're making these decisions.

And again, I get it's a big decision. But she could, like, I think the idea of, like, if I pick one and I don't like it, I will be okay. Right. Like I can either, if it's horrible enough, I can, I can leave. You can go to a different place. Right. Maybe it'll cost me a little bit more money and that's a little stressful, but I'll

figure it out. Mm-hmm. Or it's just, you know, I'll, I won't have, like you said, I won't have the ideal icing on the cake experience and it'll be fine and I'll be fine. Right. Like the worst case scenario is not devastating. And I don't know, because you've been through this. do they have actual like hard numbers on their websites typically like this is the average number

of successful egg retrieval whatever like do they give you that I think there's I believe that there is a website um I'm not exactly sure what it's called where you can look at like that says that tells the clinics um rates like and compares them all on the same data because every clinic has their own data that they're sharing with you but I think that there's a website where you can like compare all the ones in your area and see which one has the highest. But even that, I'll be honest, I think so much of this stuff when it comes to IVF and an egg freezing and it gives you the illusion of so much control, a lot of it is really just based on your own body and the way your own body reacts to the meds that every clinic has their

own protocol that they like give you a certain meds and like maybe they'll change them a little bit based on who you are. But like, I think a lot of your success is just going to depend on how well your body reacts to the thing that they're giving everyone else. Yes. It's true. It's true. I'm just thinking if there's a way to take kind of the subjectiveness out of it and just be like, okay, I'm between these two places, this one says 86%. This one says 87%. Right. I'm just going to pick this one because. And I think there's, I'm pretty sure there's a, there's a website where it does say that. And again, it's like, only she knows what the criteria that is most important to her.

Yes. Is it bedside manner? Is it success rates? Like, pick that one thing that's the most important to you and find the clinic with the highest of that. Totally. And I think you can tell a lot of times from an initial phone call, how they handle that. Are they understanding? Are they patient?

Like you can kind of get a vibe for how they work in a place based on just making a phone call and asking some questions. So you can get your own information. Not that I want you to start doing a million more research things because I don't. I think you just need to pick something and rip off the band-aid and move on. But if you did, you know, if bedside matter is important to you, I think a lot of times the front desk and, you know, the people that you're interacting with there, there is a climate and a culture of a way of acting. that maybe, I'm not saying 100%, but you could get a feel for how much warmth you're getting when you make a phone call there.

Totally. And there are a lot of like tests and blood draws and things like that. And I do think I know a lot of people who have frozen their eggs. They've gone to a lot of different clinics. Everyone has had at least one little issue with everyone. Yes. With every place they've gone because you go there so much.

And that's the thing about reviews. And that's the thing about a doctor that you're seeing a lot and having many appointments with. it's never going to go totally smoothly. If you have a big enough sample, you're going to find an issue, like big enough sample with anything, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So I hope by the time you listen to this, you can just pick one, move on. And I hope you get all the eggs and can put this whole thing behind you. Very stressful. I totally get it. Right. Agreed. And then like the thing that will make her the least stressed out is just doing it

getting it over just like she said like just pick one just do it you'll be on the other side of it and it will be have been fine probably yes let's do uh betchesist do you want to read this one i'll read this dear jordana and dr naomi thank you so so much for all you do this podcast is a godsend thank you i'll get right to it not sure if this is a betchaicist or a general email but i'm definitely a bit confused and thought you two could help a bit of about me. I'm 28 years old, live in New York City, and I work in MedTech, making six figures. For my first few years out of college, I worked as a costume designer, but theater pays almost nothing and is very unstable. That coupled with the pandemic, drove me into digital design,

and I haven't looked back. My job today is super corporate and relatively boring, but I don't mind because it's stable, pays well, and doesn't cause me a lot of stress. Plus, I'm good at it. Part of what I love so much about New York City is eating and drinking out, and so do many of my friends. This is where my question comes in. Many of my friends are also now at a point in their careers where they make stable money and we can all afford to go out together. However, a few of them have pursued the arts and therefore make much less than I do. The issue is that a few of these artists friends have what I would call expensive tastes. They like to go to nice restaurants and order not just a main, but an appetizer as well as a drink. I usually actively don't order appetizers when I go

while because I don't want my meal creeping up in cost. But when the time comes for the bill, I feel like they're either expecting me to cover the cost or split the meal even though they got more. I usually put down my card because these friends are also having their cards denied. When the time comes to VEMO requests them, I feel super awkward. Neither of them has said anything to me outright about expecting me to pay, but both have made comments about being annoyed that other friends with money don't cover their meals or split meals where they, the artist friends, got more. They've also both questioned why I would ever be even remotely worried about money when I make a solid salary. And the thing is, I do make good money, but we live in New York City. It's incredibly expensive.

Rent is almost half my budget, and I'm also trying to save for retirement, a wedding, potentially buying properties on the line, and just, well, general savings. I don't actually have that much fun money left over after my regular expenses, setting aside savings. So when I do go out with my friends, I enjoy myself very much, but I'm also conscious of what I order so I don't overspent. If I cover my friend's meals, I'm basically cutting down on my fun budget by two meals instead of one. I feel like a huge asshole, but I'm also like, if you can't afford to be eating out, why don't we cook or go somewhere cheaper? Or at least don't order the app and expect me to pay. I'm very willing to go to more affordable restaurants or to hang at home, and I've had great frugal hangs with other friends who don't make as much.

this is totally a first world problem and of course i'm incredibly lucky to be making enough money to save anything at all and to live in this ridiculously expensive city but it's a struggle nonetheless and i figured the betches would be willing to entertain my luxury issue l-o-l speaking of which i should also mention that these bougie artist friends come from affluent upper middle class backgrounds as do i we all have four-year degrees i don't blame them at all for staying in the arts and somewhat admire them for pursuing what they love in a way that I could not. But I also don't feel like I should have to finance their expensive taste when we're hanging out. I don't know. Maybe I totally suck. You can let me know either way. Love you both so much. XOXO. Treat yo self. To me, the idea that she would be

expected to pay for the meals of her friends is totally insane. Yeah. And that the key clue is that they've talked crap to her before about other people not doing that. So it does seem clear that they think because you make more, you should be sort of subsidizing our hangs. Which is crazy to me. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting that's also like more than one person. I think like when you're making a career choice, that's something that you take, you keep in mind. It's like, how much am I going to make off of this? career choice. And then you kind of have to like the benefit is like she said for her for these friends, like they love what they do. They're probably really passionate about it. They probably really enjoy it. And one of the sacrifices for that is that you stay home more. Yeah. You're not,

it's not on her friend's job to make sure that they can have everything in life. Yes. Totally. And it does sound like she probably would, this listener probably would have preferred to stay in the arts, but didn't because she wants to have savings and, be able to buy property or whatever she wants to do down the line. So yeah, I get it. But it comes back to that whole awkwardness of like when the check comes, am I going to be like, well, I ordered this thing. And so we're, I mean, I guess everyone could just get their own individual checks. Right. And pay them. And maybe that's how you do it. Like that is awkward because sometimes it's it seems like it's about even and you just split it.

But even then, everyone's getting their own check to sign or Venmo requests or whatever anyway. So I guess the question is how does she address this? Well, I think it would have been a good time to address it when the friends were complaining about other people not paying their, um, their fills would have been. And I get why that would be like an awkward time to do it. But I could see if they were like, and it's so messed up that I, you know, that she

ordered so much more and I had to pay where you could say well you know like we're at we're at an age where I kind of feel like we should just like it's easier to just split the check or like maybe we could go to cheaper places where we can order more totally I feel like she probably didn't say anything and that almost maybe implied that she was agreeing with them by not speaking up in that moment right like it was giving them the message that maybe she was agreeing that you know the people that make more should pay for the people that make less. I mean, you're not married. I don't think that that's a normal expectation.

And it's interesting because maybe she's not Venmoing the friends, but maybe they would have been expected her to Venmo them. And now that she hasn't Venmoed them for previous meals, they're like, oh, that's just something that, like, Lauren does. She just pays for us, which is like, great. That's why we love hanging out with her. We're going to, like, tell her how much it sucks when other people don't do that. don't do that.

Right. Yeah. Totally. Like she might, because I, to me, it's crazy the idea that multiple people

would think that other people that their friends should pay for their dinner when they go out. Yeah. Totally. I agree. And it sounds like she does have friends

where they agree to go to cheaper places. And maybe that's what needs to happen here. Or she needs to just take a deep breath and send the VEMO request. See what happens. And if it seems like there's some tension after that, like if they don't just, send her the money and then show up the next time with a smile on their face,

it's going to kind of be on them to, you know, either suggest a cheaper place next time if you're Venmo requesting them and they don't like it or if they come and show up and there's a little tension or thickness in the air or something, then that might be the time where you can say, you know, I noticed since I sent that memo request,

it seems a little off between us. I just want you to know that, Like I am, I have financial goals for my future and I'm trying to get there. Like I want to do this or that or whatever the thing is that you want to do with your money. I mean, honestly, even if she didn't, do you know what I mean? Like, even if she could afford to pay for them, I still think the idea, like, it feels like she's being used. Yeah.

You know, like to me, it would be like very off putting if I send someone a Venmo request and then they didn't feel that they should pay for it. Like me, I would feel used. Like that's why we're going like. I'm not like your parent. I'm not your. Yes. Like I'm not paying to hang out with you.

Totally. I totally get it. And they get the reward of doing something all day long that they enjoy and that they're passionate about. So this is the sacrifice that you maybe can't go to that restaurant or whatever the case might be. So yeah, I get this is sticky. You know, it's, it's, I, I have almost like memories from high school or

college and like that one friend, which I appreciate her now because she had the guts to do it. That's like taking out the check and going through every item and like, all right, well, Naomi ordered the mozzarella sticks and like, which was so annoying. And like I hated that whole process and I don't necessarily think you need to go through that. But there is something to be said for the ex. And if it's constantly the same people that are ordering more, that's when it starts to feel like you said, like you're being used.

So. Right. Especially if they're ordering more. It's crazy. Yeah. And then not paying. Yeah. I don't know.

To me, it's like this is you're going to find out if this person, these people are really your friends. Yeah. I think you have to just send the VEMO request and see how it affects the friendship. I agree. Because like then there's a, there's a test being put out essentially.

Yeah. And again, if they're like, if they give you shit for that, I think they're not like your real friends. Yeah. Yeah. Or it's just a conversation that you have to have where you just have to explain your perspective, where like, I don't work in this field that would be my every single day would be more enjoyable if I worked in this field. But I'm not doing that because I want to save money for this, that, and the other. And this is a conversation you have friend to friend where you're like, these are my goals and this is why I chose this. So I don't think. It's fair that you're judging how much money I have and how I should be spending it. That's for me to decide.

So I think that conversation may or may not need to be had or maybe they just need to get used to the fact that you're going to send a memo request and they've gotten a little spoiled. Yeah. To me it's the expectation. Like if she wanted to occasionally take her friends out to dinner because she like really like that, like that would be great and really nice. and like, but the expectation that she's going to do it and not, like, that it's a given to me is the part that feels really icky.

Yeah. I think sometimes with friendships and these types of things, it is helpful to just have the conversation about, about money and where you are with money and what you're trying to do. Right. You know, like they might be in a different place where they're like, all right, I could pay my rent. You could pay your rent and you have more. Like, great, then you chip in more. That's not where she's at.

She's at a place where she wants to save her money. And it is, I'm not saying you have to make up an excuse for why you don't want to pay for them, but I think you can just explain to them kind of where what your thought process is behind this shift. Because there is, seems like there's going to be a shift from what the norm was before to what it is now. And that's where you find out, you know, how long lasting this friendship is going to be. If you can have that conversation where you can explain what your goals are, what you're

working towards and why you're making this shift. And they can be like, okay, I get it, friend. Like, I love you. I want you to pursue your dreams. And I, you know, thank you for sharing that with me. And yeah, let's go to pizza next time, whatever it is. I think this was like an exact plot in friends to show friends. Oh, was it?

Yeah, or like three of them didn't really make any much money. And three of them were, I think there was, it was more of a discussion about the people choosing very expensive places when they made more money than the people who didn't make. Yes. So it's a thing. It's a friendship thing. It's definitely a friendship thing. Even now it's kind of like if we go out to dinner and we have three kids and we go out

with like one person or a couple or something, it's kind of like, are we splitting this? Are we, you know, obviously we should pay more, but sometimes it just ends up splitting and then I feel badly or, you know, it's kind of a thing always. Like when you're sharing meals with people, as long as there is a given, a given take. Like I take one, you take one that both people feel like generally it's evening out, but she doesn't feel like it's evening out. Yeah. As long as there's not one person who's always taking.

I feel like that would be, that's the issue. Exactly. But yeah, these conversations never feels good to have. No. The check conversation. No. Yes. It's true.

I don't like it. But yeah, that's why Vemmo's great. Ben the Venmo request. You don't have to look them in the eye. The best. Let's do some intentions. Hi, Dr. Drodina and Dr. Naomi. I'm a 31-year-old female who struggles with libido issues.

I have been married for three years and together with my husband for six years total. We've been going through a rough patch as of late because of my lack of libido. No sex drive and no urges of even wanting to pleasure myself. I underwent iodine radiation therapy at Graves disease treatment a few years back, which has split my body in hormones upside. down. I've gained a significant amount of weight back that I lost from having graves, which in turn made me have extremely bad body image issues. Disordered eating and depression, which I'm working out in therapy along with recent libido issues. I have taskers that my therapist and I came up with already.

Date night, intimacy that isn't sex, scheduled sex night, but I can't help but feel extremely guilty and shameful about my low libido. I feel like I'm too young and too early in my marriage to be having these issues. If I'm having intimacy issues now, how the hell can I make my marriage happily last forever? Any intentions or tips to feel less shameful about this? Is this a normal issue for someone my age? Am I doing the right things? Thanks for all your help. I love the pod. A low libido fetch. All right. Great question. This is, people don't talk about this. Like, I think it's fun and funny and cool to talk about like how attracted you are to your partner and how much sex you guys have and you know stuff we see all the time and media around um there's like two two pictures that are

portrayed one is like this healthy robust sex life where right you know you're having sex all the time you can't keep your hands off each other and like it's so passionate and amazing and then there's like the wife with the headache that never wants to have sex and the marriage is awful and the guy's frustrated and then he like cheats and leaves yeah those are the two blains you can right right seems like that you see in the media for sure yes and there is a thousand percent the majority of people that are in a middle lane which is not that um and there's you know the idea of marriage it's interesting because you're ideally going to be married for the rest of your entire life decades um if all goes well so

there's going to be these ebbs and flows naturally. And I think she's judging herself because she feels like, you know, the ebb is happening sooner than she thought it would. But it sounds like she's been through a lot physically. And even if you haven't like, and this is for her, but for everyone else out there, even if you haven't been through, you know, radiation therapy or some type of hormonal imbalance,

there's a million things that can affect your libido, some of which she mentions, which may be a bigger part of it than she's even realizing, which is depression or body image issues or stress or all these things that, or, you know, infertility or, you know, a number of things that can just affect the way that a couple interact sexually. So this is very normal and not really talked about as much as it should be. I'm sure that you get a lot of couples talking about this kind of thing, I would imagine. A hundred percent. And it's not always, sometimes it's a physical issue, like a hormonal imbalance or something

like that or being on an antidepressant or, but a lot of times it's body image issues. And a lot of times it's just disconnection, emotional disconnection, which I think is the fear, right? Probably the stigma of why maybe she can't talk to. friends about it because it's sort of like if you admit that you don't have sexual desire for your partner there's a fear of judgment of like oh are we not okay are we not in love are we not um you know is our marriage doomed because we don't have a good sex life right and i think people want to protect their own reputation with their partners so they don't say anything about it

which makes other people then think it's normal uh it's not normal which then feeds into you know like anything else that's stigmatized. There's this feeling of like, I'm the only one who feels like this because no one's talking about it and other people are feeling like it, but not talking about it because they don't want other people to think they're the only ones thinking. Yes. Yes, a hundred percent. And it is. It's like you're trying to protect your marriage by not, you know, talking about the fact that you don't have sex as much as one person would like or both people would like or even what happens sometimes is you both end up just not wanting to have, like being content with the amount of sex that you're having, even if it's not as much as what your friends are having, but somehow that

feels shameful or like there's something wrong. Totally. Even if you're both okay with it. Right. Because there's this feeling of like more is more. Right. Or like, you know what I mean? I feel like that's the general feeling when it comes to like married couples with sex. It's like more is more. and like the people who are doing more of it or doing better than the people who are having less of it. And it just feels very like binary like that. Yes. Totally. So I agree with you.

It's not. Right. It's really not like I think, you know, and there are studies out there that show that couples that are having more sex doesn't mean that they have a healthier marriage or that they're happier in their marriage. Right. It doesn't mean that. There is, you know, yes, I think that couples that are never having. sex, then it's more of a friendship or a partnership or a companionship or whatever. But the amount that you're having sex, that's between you and your husband.

If for this listener, her husband is wanting it more than her, which I think is the, it's like an imbalance. And I would say to her, I think it's amazing that you are going to therapy and you're working on what you can do differently and you're trying to figure out like what part of this, do I have some control over? and can I help? And I think the things that she's doing, and, you know, she mentioned them briefly, but like for anyone out there who's struggling with libido issues, I think body image is a huge

one. Depression, body image, stress, like those are things that you can. With kids, new babies or something? Yes. I've heard a lot of that. Totally. 100% kids will affect the sex and a marriage. But what I think ends up happening a lot in these situations where there is like a libido

imbalance. Like one person wants it more than the other. And it sounds like she's doing a good job working with her therapist on this, but I'll just elaborate, is like when you're not really in the mood or your body is not in that like place where you think your mindset is like, I don't want to have sex. I know my partner does. So now any kind of touch from your partner or physical affection from your partner starts to feel stressful because it feels like, oh gosh, now I'm going to, I don't want to do this, I'm going to have to reject him or her. That's not going to feel good. Maybe that's going to cause more attention. I don't want to make them feel bad. So you almost grow a little further apart because you're even avoiding just intimate touch of any kind because of the fear that it's good,

that the partner is doing it because they want sex. And now there's going to have to be a rejection or that. And then the whole thing I would imagine. it becomes associated with anxiety. Yes. Which makes you let, you know what I mean? The pressure from it makes you more anxious. Totally.

It feeds into itself. And one of the things she's working on, which she mentioned, is like non-sexual physical intimacy, which I think is really important to working on this so that she can just learn to kind of get back in touch

with enjoying the touch of another person, even if it's just, you know, a back scratch, or kissing. I mean, just, you know, having a kiss with your partner, especially if she can know that her partner is not, like, that it doesn't have to lead to sex can increase oxytocin. If you have, from what I've read in research, a 20 second hug or a six second kiss will release oxytocin.

But a lot of times people in this position, they don't want to do that because they feel like if I give a six second kiss, they're going to be like let on. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So that's why communication around this is really, really important that she's kind of like, I'm working on this and part of working on this is that I want to just get used to enjoying

and just whatever you enjoyed, however many years she's been married three years ago. They've been together six years. You're part of marriage is growing and evolving together. So she's been through a lot since then. And she has to get to know this new body that she has with different hormones and physically different. And he has to be part of the process of her re-learning how to explore this new body. And it can be fun, but it can't be pressured. Right.

That's why the scheduled sex thing seems like, I've heard of that as like a thing people do. it just feels like a little, I don't know. It seems one unromantic a little bit. And then two, it just feels like it would make it feel like a to-do list item, which, but I understand the idea of like you're making it a priority. Yes. But I don't know. To me, it would like the, like kind of what you're talking about where like the kiss leads like,

it's on the schedule tonight. I'm like like a meeting that I have where I have to be anxious about it. I feel like that might backfire. I don't know. I mean, if I were them, I would tweak it to like scheduled physical intimacy of some sort, right? So like it doesn't have to be actual sex, but it could be we're scheduling that we're going to exchange massages or we're scheduling that we're going to, you know, lay in bed and snuggle or lay in bed naked or whatever the thing is that you're going to or, you know, whatever you guys. second hug. Yes. Something that can be, and she might have to say, and something that a lot of therapists do is like taking sex off the table for this reason for a period of time so that

she can feel like I can enjoy your touch again. Right. And I can figure out what does make me feel aroused without the pressure of like, I need my body to function in a certain way and, you know, just like, I'm going to disappoint him. He's going to feel badly. So, yeah, I think scheduling some type of time where your only thing to do on that list is to be together closely, physically, in whatever way that works for you guys. I like that. So they're doing all the right things. And I think for her, the most important thing is for her to realize that part of a marriage is just allowing these.

you know, hurdles to exist without panicking or saying, oh, our marriage is going to be over. And it sounds like that's what she's doing. She's kind of feeling like this isn't normal and how are we ever going to last forever. It's like a shame to the low sex drive, which I get. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to help her with that piece, one, to normalize it. That it happens.

In her case, it happens to be because of a physical reason, but it happens for all the reasons that I mentioned, body image, where we talk kids, you know, whatever. is. So it happens. And the most important thing is that you can not judge it, allow it, communicate, express yourself and say, look, I want to get back there with you. And the best way to try is take the pressure off and just for me to figure out like what feels good without me having to worry about what, you know, the expectation from your end. I like that. So is there an intention she can repeat? Yeah, sure. So, um, What I wrote for her is for her to tell herself when she has these feelings of shame,

my feelings belong, allowing them and working together with patients will lead to a long, healthy marriage. Because right now it's this and down the line it'll be something else. Maybe some couples have financial issues or they have, you know, there's a million different issues. This happens to be the one that you're experiencing right now, but you have to just kind of allow your feelings to exist and work together with patience. So if he can be patient with her and not be like, well, if you don't, this before this time,

and it's never going to let, like the fear of this is going to be forever. Right. This is a face. This is what's happening right now. I think if she can work on everything she's doing, she's doing great. She's working with a therapist. She needs to work on her self-image. That's a big part of it and her depression.

And, you know, I think that's more important than I, you know, anything else. So it is indicative. She already has self-esteem issues and she's having self-esteem issues around low libido, which is likely caused by self-esteem issues. So it's like a vicious cycle. Cycle feeds into itself. I think that's really good. And I think that will be helpful. And to think of it, like you said, like a long marriage where there's going to be ebbs and flows and times where things feel hotter and heavier in times when things do not feel like that. I think that I don't imagine there's any couples that go through their entire marriage if they've been married for decades where it's always hot and heavy.

Yes. I would imagine. Maybe they are. I don't know. I'm not one of them. All right. Let's do some triggers. Do you want to read our first trigger?

I will read this. Hi, Jay and Dr. Naomi. Here I am 12 hours after the fact and still fuming. Hopefully writing it out helps me calm down before I have to see his face again in the morning. About to find out what happened. Right. Speaking of low libido, let's see his face again. My husband and I have a four-month-old. She's the best. My husband is a police officer and

tonight was his first of three night shifts after working two day shifts. I'm on maternity leave. Naturally, the default parent exclusively breastfeed, do everything around the house, do all the shopping and cooking, care for our two dogs, plus I'm doing my masters. As much as I love this little girl, she hates sleep, so I get four hours on a good night. Today, after he woke up at 11, I asked him to watch the baby for an hour or so so I could work out. He straight up said, no, I'm tired. Steam could have come out of my ears. I said, fine, and walked away. He later told me it was unfair that I got upset by what he said and that I don't understand how tired he is and the stress he has at work. I am beyond empathetic to him. However, I asked for one hour. Come on.

So how triggered would you be if you were me? Sincerely a rattled batch? I would say this is triggering, but it seems probably, it would probably be a lot more triggering if I were on less on four hours of sleep or waking up late. But I do think it's triggering. But I mean, it's tough because I don't know what it's like to have a night shift either. I can imagine that's its own thing.

Although he did wake up at 11. So I'm going back and forth. Yeah. He did wake up at 11. I don't know. What do you think? You've had a, you've probably been in this scenario. Yes.

100%. I've seen this exact couple. I mean, not this exact couple, but this exact couple. Where, first of all, I will, I'll say on the one hand, shift work is really hard and it's very stressful. And being a police officer, I can imagine there's a lot of stressors that come along with that. You're in dangerous situations.

you're working in the middle of the night, you're seeing a lot of things that you don't necessarily talk about. I think police officers tend to hold in from what I've seen a lot of emotion. It's unfortunately, the culture is not therapy friendly in the sense that if you say that you want therapy or you need help to deal with whatever the difficulty that he's having at work or stress that he's having at work, there's a fear that you're seen as mentally unstable.

So it really is hard for police officers to get sometimes the help that they need to be able to maintain their personal life outside of work. So I will say that. I get it. This is a tough situation. On the flip side, like you said, he did get sleep. He woke up at 11 and they have a four-month-old, which to me, four-month-olds don't go very. very far, they don't move very fast, you just kind of got to sit there. Like she's not asking for him. To take her to the some playground. Right. To take a three year old to the water park. You know,

like this is a pretty low lift thing. He can put her in a pack and play with some toys and she can go out and run out to the gym for an hour. So I find this pretty triggering. that she asked for an hour and she's exclusively breastfeeding and home with the baby and sounds like doing everything all day and he slept till 11 and then he just straight up said no right yeah when you put it that way yeah i would say i agree with that um i think that the way he said it also like yes and it sounds like a very curt abrupt like i'm tired not at all taking into account anything that she wants or trying. Totally.

I think if he would have said, I know you deserve a break. I know you do so much around here. I really want you to go to the gym and feel good. Right now, I just like can't really function. But give me, and if she is right now on maternity leave, he could say, give me a few hours. I'm going to go back to sleep or I need to take a shower or have a cup of coffee and maybe can you please, you know, can we push it off? Can you go at two o'clock? Okay. Yeah. Great. The fact that he's like she woke him up. Yes. He was all. That's my other point is like,

you're up. All you have to do is like point your face in the direction of the baby and maybe stick a bottle in her mouth. Like it's not, I could see almost, like I said, if this was a toddler or a child that's like going to run around and climb walls and do dangerous things. At four months old, He's like fairly moving. It's not that labor intensive. Right. And he's already awake. Like what?

So you stare at the baby instead of staring at your phone or the television or whatever you were about to do. Or even couldn't he like continue sleeping and then if she woke up or I guess maybe she's up? I don't know. She's up. I mean, he think he has to be conscious. I mean. Okay.

I don't know. I don't know what the rules are. Yeah. I mean, if she's sleeping, he could definitely sleep. It sounds like she was sleeping. It seems like he. He gets sleep. Yeah.

If she's not, if she's up, then he should be up. Yeah. Totally. I mean, I just, you know, I get why she's annoyed. I think it was, like you said, in the delivery. And she could say that to him. Look, this really aggravated me. And if you don't feel like you can give me an hour when I ask for an hour,

I would really appreciate it if you can tell me a time when it would be a better time for you to give me an hour because I need an hour. Right. Which is very fair. Very fair. This is all you're doing 24 hours a day. Yes. So what would you give it?

I'll let you give this one the number. Yeah, I mean, if he literally is just saying, how did he say it? No, I'm tired. I don't know. And this is a personal thing. This isn't like objective because I've had a baby and I've been tired and breastfeeding and the whole thing. If I just got to know I'm tired, I'd probably be like at a seven also.

Right. Asking for one hour. Yeah. I mean, it's his baby too. It's like, go into the city with her friends all day and, like, have drinks and come back at like two in the morning. Right. It's also, like, not like a favor. Like, it's his kid.

Yes. It's not like it's like, can you babysit? Like, it's your kid. Right. Can you go over to my sister's house and watch her kid for an hour? Right. That would be a no, I'm tired. No, I'm tired would be fine for that.

Yes. This is your kid. Yeah. So, yeah, I would give it a seven. And again, if understanding that if he is, it's okay that he's tired, but I think the way that you say it, I think he should do it even if he's a little tired, but if he woke up at 11 and he's up already.

Yeah, I think they need to have a bigger conversation around their expectations because it does sound like similarly to the, you know, appetizer conversation. Like there's a certain expectation that like that's not his job, that he's entitled to say, no, I'm tired. Right. And I think it's tough for a lot of people in these situations where it's like if you're one person's on maternity leave, then it's like, okay, well, it does feel like that is your job if you're on maternity leave because I'm not off. I'm working. You're not working. But also like the idea that like even if you're on maternity leave, like and that's your job. It's your job 24 hours a day. Like people who are working in any other job get days off. Yes. Entire days off where they have nothing to do. and he gets time off where he has nothing to do. It sounds like there is an expectation in their home where like when he's off,

he's kind of off because she didn't say, I'm going to the gym. She said like, can I go to the gym? So the expectation is that she's on unless she asks him. So that means that typically when he's home and he's not working, that's his time. So yeah, she's expected to be on with no breaks at all just because she doesn't have to go to an official job. So, yeah, I find this pretty triggering.

But I do think it's, again, as we always talk about with couples and friendships and all the things, it's a good opportunity when you approach him about this to approach it with a mindset towards like, I want to have a deeper understanding of what you're going through and what you need. and I want you to have a deeper understanding of what I'm going through and what I need. So I'm not just going to come in there and like lash out at you and make this into like a argument that doesn't serve a larger purpose. Like this argument needs to serve a larger purpose in your marriage. I agree. And I think that when you do it like that as opposed to like here's what you're not doing, here's how you're messing up, that usually doesn't go towards a solution.

If you go, if you, if you do it the way you're suggesting, which is like, here's what I'm going through. Let me help you understand what I'm going through. I think that makes it a lot more. It's always better when someone does something and they feel like it's their idea. Yes. And I feel like they're more likely to do that. Yes. When you just say, if you give them a, a preview of your experience or a, you know, a look into like what your life is like.

Totally. Yes. And she, I think it would be important for her to do that for him too, to make him, give him a space to express what he's going through. And, you know, maybe something that happened at work the night before that made him on edge or who knows, whatever it is. So I think asking being curious about his experience, letting him say a little bit about how stressed out he is and how tired he is and being empathic and then being like, I totally get that. How can I support you? And then also having a chance to say like, here's what I need. I need, you know, an hour. I'm sure she needs more than an hour a day to go to the gym. She probably needs other things too. But at the minimum, she would like an hour, you know, on the days when he's off to go to the gym.

And how can we make that happen? Maybe first, maybe it was like he popped his eyes open and she asked him in that. As soon as she saw him like open his eyes and he could say, hey, in the future, let me wake up. Let me get a cup of coffee. Let me take a shower. And then I'm happy to watch the baby. So they just probably needs to communicate a little bit better.

This is fresh. This is new. They only have a form of thought. That's true. They're still figuring it out. All right. Let's do one more. I'll read it.

Okay. Hello, Dr. Naomi and Trudan. I have to start off by saying I absolutely love the pod and all the fantastic insight you both share. Obsessed. I'm a U. U.S. fan as well. And shout out to my sister who shared with me these two lovely podcasts to which I

incorporate in my routine weekly. Love it. Here is my triggered segment. I went to the OBGYN today and, had the removal slash insertion of my new birth control. This is my third one, so I know how the process goes, and I thought I'd be brave enough to relax a bit. However, the process itself doesn't make it any less scary, and considering there was a minor complication getting the actual next plan on out, I should add, I know I get major anxiety with medical procedures and sometimes

doctor's appointments that are invasive, so my doctor knows I'm uneasy with this type of procedures. Here's the triggering piece. I was in the middle of a panic attack, second one, in my entire life, to which my doctor blurted out during the procedure that I should get on anxiety medication to relieve my stressful state for the future. I'm not upset by the fact that she recommended medication to help treat my anxiety because I have been considering doing that myself. However, should I be triggered that she blurted out that I should consider taking anxiety meds in the midst of having an anxiety attack? I would, I just would have thought it would have been more beneficial if she told me that afterwards because I spiraled even more. Wondering what

your thoughts are on how triggering this is, looking to also set an intention when I'm a place of distress and the doctor's appointment to calm myself down. One last question, Dr. Naomi, if I'm wanting to start anxiety medication, is there anything you would recommend pharmaceutical wise? I understand that it is 100% patient-centered and to consult my MD, but any advice I'd love, but yours truly a scared, anxiety-ridden betch. Okay. Got a lot of questions here. Yeah, a lot of questions. I am not going to advise on what type of medication. I don't have enough information, and I'm not a psychiatrist. So that one, I'm going to have to push back over to your doctor.

But I guess- Do you want me to suggest one? I'm just kidding. Go for it. I think if it is these acute panic episodes, that's very different than if it's like a generalized anxiety that's happened. Those are two different medications. One is like, I have sort of this panic around medical procedures that I need to take something right before I have a medical procedure and that's it.

And that's one class of medications versus I generally have like anxious, ruminating thoughts and repetitive negative thinking. So I'll just say that. Those are two different types of medications depending on where you're at. If this really is, what comes to mind for me is, again, it kind of does. depends on how she said it. If she was like, oh, like next time, maybe we'll get you some medication before the procedure so that we won't, you know, so you won't have to feel so uncomfortable. Right. I think that's different. Like, okay, I'm realizing this is making you

uncomfortable and saying, you know, what, next time, let's figure out a way for you to get on some medication so that you won't have to feel so much anxiety. I think that's different than like, you got to get on some anxiety meds. Right. Which is how. Oh, I'm picturing her saying it. Like out of frustration for like her having a, which I think, I do think either one of them could be triggering, even if she did say it in like a next next time. It's kind of like, well, I'm here. I'm in the middle of the attack and like. This isn't helpful to talk about what I should do differently next time.

Yeah. Right. I could see either. And I think in either case, it would probably have been a smarter move to, you know, wait until maybe like the meeting after where they disqualify. discuss what's going on and say, maybe next time we'll get you some. Yes. Any meds? But I do think if she said it, like you said the first way she said it, if she said it,

it would be less triggering than feeling like someone was like upset with you and like irritated and telling you what to do in a way that felt like out of frustration. Yes. And I do, I do agree. I have a hunch that it was more. The doctor was frustrated. she was probably just trying to get through her patients for the day, got to this patient where she had to now stop,

kind of handle the panic attack, and then finish the procedure. But that's part of your job. Like human beings are not robots, and they don't just like sit still like a dummy, practice dummy when you're doing this. And you learn about this in medical school how to handle these types of situations.

So I do think the doctor was probably getting frustrated. and, you know, that was not a helpful comment because it's kind of like, well, that doesn't help what's happening right now. Right. Especially if she's in that state. Yes. Like I guess it's not, she's not a therapist or she wouldn't maybe know that. But to me, it's like if you're in a state, it's like, if you tell someone to calm down when they're like really angry. Yes.

Yes. Yes. So, yeah, I definitely think this is triggering. And I think the doctor was just acting. She was like prioritizing her own emotions in that moment around like, oh gosh, this cannot happen again. Like what, you know, like this is not okay. Right. It made her feel like what's happening right now is not okay.

This is stressing me out. This is causing me distress instead of what I think the ideal health care provider would be like, okay, we're okay. Take your time. Right. You got this. You're fine. Yeah. Breathe.

you know, get her maybe like a cold pack to put on her. Yes. What's currently happening. Yes. Right. Yes. So I agree. It was almost like she,

the doctor was taking this and making this about her, but through that comment. That's what it sounded like. Agreed. So I think that's triggering. I would give it a four if she said it the first way in a, next time we'll get you some Xanax. And I would give it like a,

a six and a half if she said it in like an irritating way that made her feel shameful about it. Yes, I could agree. I could agree. I am sorry that this happened. That's, I mean, it's funny because it really is an important part of medical training. Like I taught a course for physician assistants many years ago. And that was the entire course was about like how to deal with these types of issues as they arise with patients. Because that, that, that, that, That's part of being a doctor is like dealing with the emotions that people have around being treated by many different things. And, you know, it's she seems like she needs to get a refresher and how to handle, you know, patients that are under emotional distress. Because it's not easy.

She could have said that next time we'll get you a training on how to deal with patients undergoing anxiety. Totally. It's so true. That's really funny. Yeah, and I think doctors get a little burnt out, and maybe she was having a bad day, and it was just not, you know, I don't think she was, if I had to guess, she was, she's probably either burnt out, understress herself, rushing. She was rushing is what it sounded like.

Right. Like your panic attack. She needs to get to the next person. Yes. Your panic attack was stressing her out. And I've seen that before. Like, I've even taken the kids to the doctor. And one of my kids really does not like blood draws or any of that stuff.

And it's like you get, you know, we get there and the doctor's really in the beginning because they're, you know, pediatricians or they're trained with children. They're patient. They're nice. They try. They're calming. And then I know when the doctor reaches that point where they're like, all right, like now we're going to have to like strap you down and just stick this thing in. You know, like they get to a point where they're like, I have a schedule to keep. And but it doesn't sound like she gave her much of the sweet, soft, nice stuff before.

before she got to the point where she's like, all right, this is unacceptable, which is the message that she got. So, yeah, I agree. Well, good luck on your medication journey. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I do think that if this is an isolated incident, it's something probably along those lines of a Xanax or something that's like designed for fast acting panic type symptoms. You know, people take for flying or, you know, certain types of phobias. So I'm sure. sure you'll get this figured out. And yeah, it can't hurt to have a talk with your doctor afterwards about, you know, this is something that I'm fearful of. And I really felt kind of judged when I was in there. Or just maybe find someone else if this, if you don't feel like the relationship is worth

salvaging. Because she didn't know that you have this problem beforehand. So she shouldn't have been shocked. So good luck. All right. That's our time. Great work today. oversharing is produced and edited by rebecca steinberg guest booking by ali friedlander be sure to follow us on instagram and everything's fine and send your advice emails to oversharing at betches dot com or leave us a voicemail at 646363 6294 betches