Oversharing - How Can I Stop The Toxic Cycle With My Ex?

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Dr. Naomi and Jordana give their takeaways from Jared’s apartment tour video. Our Overshare comes from a Betch without a friend group. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener who needs help breaking some unfortunate news to her in-laws. Dr. Naomi writes an intention to block your toxic ex once and for all. And we’re feeling triggered by blunt baby shower hosts and a lingering ex’s family. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How is it going?

I heard you just, you watched a little video. Yes, I was really excited to see the inside of Jared's apartment. It is kind of cool. It's like you kind of like know somebody and then you get the inside scoop. Like you get to see where all the, you know, just the living happens. So it was interesting. What did you think?

I was actually being that he was caught completely off guard, I was pretty impressed with, you know, the general level of cleanliness. First of all, what I found the most impressive was the inside of his. his refrigerator. It was like... Because it was clean? It was clean. It was like organized.

It was... I feel like in my fridge, it's like... Stuff's just shoved in like haphazardly. It's like, you know, jar of jelly in the front. Yes, it's true. And it's true. He is in total control of his own fridge. But it's funny that you mentioned that because we just recorded literally right before this

episode, we just recorded a benefits episode where he talks about how he had just listened to our episode. that came out where I was telling you about, I feel I was like, I'm in a circle of a department tour now. But he said you, it was funny, you said you like kind of hit it nail on the head about like, you know, to change this, like the worst thing that he was saying, like the worst thing for my life right now would be like a woman.

To like come in and just make me have to change everything. But it got us into like a very interesting discussion about the, the apartment. So he was saying he's like, yeah, so I listen to like, you guys talk about the apartment and like, it's interesting to hear this from like two married women. I'm like, yeah, like, what do we know, whatever?

And then he's like, and you guys are talking about how, you know, a single person needs a lot to like change their lifestyle or whatever. He's like, and then your first email is about a woman whose wife cheats on him and then now she catches him talking shit about her new boyfriend on the phone. He's like, is that what I'm working towards? Is that like the way better alternative that I'm? Yes, yes. That I should be like dreaming about to get out of this apartment.

Right. Totally. It's true. I think, you know, there, and again, we've talked about this. The women that have the timeline, it really makes them, it makes the relationship so much more appealing because there's like the clock is ticking when there's no clock ticking and the choices I can do whatever I want whenever I want it without anyone telling me what to do you want to have sports memorabilia in the bathroom go for it you want to have you know beard clippings on the countertop nobody's going

to say a word. And that is sort of annoying. And it's a daily thing that you have to daily think about how someone else is going to react to whatever it is that you feel like doing that day. You want to, I feel like I'm in a chatty mood. I'm not in a chatty mood. If someone's, if Mike came home and he was just like, I don't feel like talking. Yeah, that'd be an issue. Right. And, you know, sometimes you just don't feel like talking. But when you're in a relationship, it's like, this is aside from the apartment. This is just like, you know, having to. Well, it's not even just, I think, about an apartment, like you said, just not even about an apartment.

A lot of the times it's about like there's always, and maybe women have the tendency to do this more is like pushing men to like work on themselves. Yes. Yeah. I think or like improve or change this or change that or get a new, you know, get a new bed frame or apply for that job. There's the comedian that always says, we're always working on me. It's like a male comedian. we're always working on me. And it's like kind of true. It's kind of true.

And I think part of that is because women have this biological clock. And I'm not saying like women, oh, women are settling while men aren't. But I do think there's this sense of maybe a lot of women are looking at men being like, okay, like, I have this deadline of like the age in which I can have kids. And I would like to be with someone. And this will work. Right. And I can.

And the things that don't work. like I can work on. And for men, it's actually a lot more romantic in a sense to that because when they're not really getting married unless they're like, I have found her. A complete woman that is perfect and complete just as she is. No change is needed. Yeah. Right. Very. I never, I've rarely heard a man be like, I married her. You know, there's, there's some things we can work on with her. But generally, she's like solid. Right. Well, well, you know, we'll get her to, you know. Right. Right. tweeze that errant upper lip-air. We'll figure it out.

Right. It's so true. It really is. And I think women do do the thing a lot where it's kind of like, well, if he can't clean up his own beard clippings, how's he supposed to change a diaper? Where it's like, well, we don't have a kid yet. And we're not at that point. So I'm going to leave my beard clippings just as they are.

But a lot of, you know, people and both sides do this, where they're sort of like seeing something as a sign that someone's not going to progress to the level that they want, where you start making changes that don't even need to be necessarily made. It's an interesting, like, biological conundrum. Like, I wonder why biology works that way where, like, one person is incentivized to, because it seems like the sexes are working against each other, right? Like, if both men and women had the same clock, we could all be working on, like, in the same set of circumstances.

in tandem. Yeah, it's true, although we just fail to recognize because it's not, quote unquote, fair, that I do believe our species is designed for men to procreate with many different women and not necessarily be monogamous. Like, I don't, I think we've established that in our society. It feels good. It feels safe. And there is something that men don't like to share women either. You know, I think they do have a motivation to, you know, have one loyal woman at a time. But I just think the way that we are designed, our human, you know, animal bodies are designed that men are kind of supposed to, you know, inseminate one and then inseminate another.

And then he gets to pick which one he wants to bring his antelope home to on that day. Maybe he shares his antelope between the different women and different caves. But yeah, I think we're trying to, you know, evolve. And it's taking a minute for everything to catch up. It's just funny how all that works like biologically. And then I don't know. It just feels like you're both after such different things when, I don't know. It just feels strange that it has to be that.

Yes. No, I agree. But look, many, many, many people settle down, get married and are willing to do the thing to go to the aunt's birthday party and to clean up the beard trimmings and whatever, because they do want that type of security of knowing that their children are their children and their woman is their woman. And, you know, there are many people that are doing that. But I think for some people, it's not worth the trouble of having to change, especially when you've been single for a long time. Like I think some people go from like, okay, my mother was kind of telling me what to do. Maybe then I lived with a roommate who had some requests about what I needed to do.

And so they're sort of used to, like not being able to do whatever they want, whenever they want it. But once you've been able to do that for a long enough time, it's, you know, it takes a lot to pull you out of that. But anyway, regarding the apartment, I was pleasantly surprised. Like you said, the bed was made. The fridge was very organized. I was impressed with that. It was, it was, uh, there were berries in there, lots of fresh foods. Best location, potentially in the entire world. Yeah. Yep. I would say.

Some would say. Yeah. West Village of New York. Yeah. Totally. It's all a given take. Good spot. Enjoy it.

I was, it was interesting, though, just to see that, you know. Yeah, it's funny. You get like a more intimate sense of someone after you see their, see their home. And especially, I love that it was like unannounced. Because if you go to anyone's house announced, it's like, you know, kind of pointless. You get to clean everything up. So for an unannounced visit, Jared, if you're listening. I was impressed.

Don't think it was so bad. The bathroom, okay. We could clean the mirror. Could do a little bit in there, but other than that, I've seen way worse. You got the therapist, Dr. Naomi's seal of approval that this is okay. All right, well, let's get into today's episode. If you have a voicemail, we have a voicemail at the end of this episode. If you want to leave us a voicemail, you can leave us one at 646-363-6-26-294.

or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. Let's get into the emails. I'll read our first overshare. All right. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I am 30, and although I have a small number of close one-on-one friendships, I keep circling back to the idea that I should have a core friendship group of girlfriends.

I have been living abroad for the last five years, and most of my close friends live in other countries, so almost all of our interaction is virtual. I have found a few good friends in my city, but they don't really gel together as a group, and I wanted to avoid the feeling of forcing people to spend time together. I think that close-knit adult friendship groups have been oversold by shows like Sex in the City and Friends, but sometimes it still feels like most people I know have one of

these core groups. Do you think I should try to change external factors by trying to create more of a group for myself? Or should I focus more in internal factors? So trying to get over my fixation on having a group and instead enjoying the individual friendships I already have. grateful for any advice you have on more productive ways of thinking about my situation that could help me to get out of this ride. Thanks, groupless batch. So this is interesting for us to talk about because I feel like you have like a group of, you have like a friend group. And I don't really

have a friend group. I mean, I have like your college friends. I have my college friends, but we literally are scattered across the, like we, I don't have a local friend group. If we get together once every two years for a girl's trip. I'll call it a friend group, but I don't know if that's exactly what I think she's seeking, which I get, because I see people around here that have that, you know, local people that have their friend group. And it is really appealing. It just seems like a roaring good time, you know, like everybody's hanging out and you have your group. And if one person can't hang, then there's a bunch of other people that can hang. And then even once you have significant and others and kids, it's like all a big fun time.

So I get the urge. It's like a tempting, appealing lifestyle. But if she's asking the question, my answer is internal factors. I think you have to let go of this because I don't think it's something that you can force. Right. I have to say, I think I've always been sort of like a friend group kind of person. but I do think that the older that I've gotten, the less it matters. Like when you're in college or when you're in your early 20s or when you're going out maybe

to like meet people at bars or something like that or you're trying, you know, you're establishing yourself in a city. I think a friend group is really nice and helpful. But I think the older that I've gotten, the more, even my friends within the group, the much more important factor has been my individual friendships as opposed to. the friendships as a group because the group thing is a lot more superficial than the individual bonds. And sometimes it's helpful to have a superficial relationship with a lot of people. It's fun to go out at night with someone, you know, to go to a party with someone, you don't

have to be, have the most intense, deep connection. But, you know, the older you get, the less your lifestyle is really dependent on superficial factors. I think it becomes much more important to have like a one-on-one bond with someone where you feel like you can like share intimate details about your life or let them know if something's bothering you or something like that. And I think all of those friendships are strongest in an individual form than they are as a group. It's nice. It's nice like if you want to have a gathering or if you go to a gathering and you know everyone and everyone knows each other, there's like a there's a feeling of like ease in that. But I do think it hinders growth a little bit. You're less likely to meet other people when you're in a group or when you have that group. So I think there's pros and cons. It's not all benefits.

Yes. I do think it is a factor of maturity in some ways. Like when you're in college or when you're in your early 20s, there's sort of like this it even starts in like middle school and high school, like a safety and numbers thing, you know, kind of like if there's a. a girl that you don't like or that doesn't like you or there's someone outside that you have a conflict with. It's like you have the safety of your group and that's where it kind of starts from. I think we talked about this a while back like the high school groups where it's like we're the fab five

or where the, you know, it's like you feel this like sense of belonging. It's the same reason that people join gangs when they're in high school. It's like someone has my back. Or religion. Yes. Even, yeah. If someone messes with me, if I'm in danger, if I'm in a bad spot, I know that I have like this whole safety group community feel that's that I can fall back on. So then as you get older and you sort of that attachment and that safety comes from, and this is why sometimes it's hard because if you don't have a partner who's like

your safety person where you're like, I know who I'm hanging out with every weekend. Like I know that like your backup. This is my person. If I want to have a meal, this is who I'm going to have a meal with. If I want to do something, this is who I'm going to do it with. So there is that middle period that's tough when you don't have your safety person, like even if it's like your one best friend where you're like, okay, every weekend I know that like we're going to do something. I think that's when it can start to feel a little bit uncomfortable as you're easing out of the friend group phase,

but without the safety of a person who you always know that you kind of have. So when you have a group, it feels a little bit safer. But I agree. You're evolving from like having safety in numbers to wanting like more deeper individual connections. Right. And I think that if you're again, like I agree with you, you can't force it for the listener. I don't think it's like something that you could push or force or whatever.

but I do think that you can create a group out of people who have things in common. So it'd be one, like, I don't think she should just grab all these friends from different places and force them to be friends. But I think, let's say you joined a book club, right? That's sort of like a built-in group of people with a shared interest. Yes. They all like this thing. They all read the same books or have the same taste in books or whatever, intramural sports

or something like that. Like I think something, something needs to bring people together to create that group feeling. Yes. You know what? And it is fun to have like, oh, I know, you know, if I want to get, if I don't want to get dinner with my spouse or if I'm single, I can reach out to this group of people and see who in the village. Totally. Yes. And that's why I think.

And she's right about like the friends coffee shop thing. It feels good. Like I could just kind of show up here. And like, I know that there's going to be someone. from my group that's hanging out. Someone told me there was some city that had basically, which I thought was the coolest idea. I don't know how it started,

but it was like a running club that had its base, like in a coffee shop. And everyone in this running club would take a shift at the coffee shop, like working at the coffee shop. So kind of like in order to be in this club, you had to agree to have like one three hour shift a week working at this coffee shop. So it was kind of like you had to show up for your shift. So you kind of had to be there.

So maybe you would, you know, it's like it made it feel like it was more of like a home base. And part of being in this running club was that you, you know, worked in this one coffee shop. So I thought it was kind of a cool concept of creating like a culture of a, like a home base for like a friend group to develop. It sounds like a mini version of like a kibbutz or something. Yes. But it was like a very low lift. It was kind of like, you know, three hours a week or whatever it is where it's like,

I'm just committing that I'm going to pop in here. And it almost forces the forces you to show up like a new person. Like let's say you want to join this. It forces you to show up and you're really part of it because you're like working there. So it almost gives you something to do while you're integrating yourself into this new culture. Like, I'm part of this because I'm pouring the coffee and I'm serving the thing versus I'm going to show up my first time and kind of sit on the corner and sit on the couch and hope somebody talks to me. So I thought it was a pretty cool concept. Sounds like a much healthier version of sorority hazing.

And you will be cleaning the toilets. I mean, the way you're phrasing it, you're like, and you just have to, you know, put in your dues to like be part of this group. I'm like, that sounds familiar. Right. But I think everybody the entire time keeps their shift. It's like you only have your shift when you're first starting there. So it doesn't feel like hierarchy.

But yes, I could see. So I think, you know, I really love that idea because there are so many people in new cities that would love to have a friend group. Because it does feel a little bit like if you just have your one best friend, like it can become a little enmeshed. it can become a little bit like dependent. And if you want to do a trip, I always find like, I think it's tough to go away with one person. Yeah, unless you're really like soulmates or something, like best friends, like compadre kind of thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Like I find even like three is just like a little more relaxing than two. So I think there's ways to like find a group maybe through an activity that you like. But I wouldn't, again, I wouldn't try to force it. and it doesn't have to be like you guys are best of friends. It could just be like this is a group of people that I enjoy being. Yes.

And I think you can have something like it does sound like she's looking for like a friend group that's like her core friend group. But maybe more like I have this group of people that like I do a workout class with. And then I have my friends that I have deep one on one deep conversations with. And maybe I have a another group that's, you know, know, like a book club. So it's not like one group that's going to satisfy all of your needs. Like maybe there's a couple of different, you know, a group that works for you in this way. I mean, I remember having friends that were like my go out friends that I wouldn't talk to about my problems. And then

my friends that were like my talk to my talk to on a deeper level, but like they're not that much fun to go out kind of friends. Right. Yeah. That's what I'm, well, that's like the beauty of the individual relationships that you foster. It's like you can have and that's the beauty of friendship. that's different than like romantic relationships is that you can have people who don't fill every single box with friendships because it's not like you have a cap. Yes, exactly. Totally. Yeah.

So I get it. It's, you know, I see that all the time because there are in my neighborhood like big friend groups and I'm kind of like, oh, that's, especially when you have kids, it's really fun because it's kind of like the kids are entertained. Yeah. They're like, do their own thing and you can actually have adult. So that is really tempting. Someone excluding you all killed.

Oh, I love you. You too. Someone not inviting you to their friend group. Yeah. No, people are nice. It's just very, you know, like you kind of get set in the ways. Yeah, set in the ways. And there probably is, if I'm being honest, like this little discomfort of like

spending the time to be the new person and the already established friend group, which doesn't feel great. So you just avoid it and you're like, I'm fine. I don't really need it that badly. Right. And I do think like if those things are meant to be, they kind of do come together like over a long period of time. Naturally.

Yes. Inched into a group. Yes, totally. So I think I agree with your advice. You can put a little effort into finding a group, whether it's in a hobby that you have interest in. I don't think it has to be one or the other. But in the meantime, until that takes flight, I would just appreciate your individual friendships.

Find the friends that like to go out. Find the friends that like to, you know, stay in and have deep conversations. And yeah, I don't think you have to pick one or the other. Right. All right. Well, good luck. It's not, I know we didn't give you like a solve, but I think we've given you some tips. Yeah.

I mean, I think personally, I think the solve is accept that it's not in your life right now. Like, I don't think you need to go hard on, like, I don't think you need to go hard on like, I need to join a running club immediately. This is a problem that needs to be immediately solved. I think I would follow your interests, see if a group comes along if you're doing that. And if not, that's okay, too. There's plenty of things that seem tempting that you just are not in the cards for you. You know, sometimes I'll see somebody.

that's like running a marathon and I'm like, ah, that would be cool, but like that's not happening for me. Right. Exactly. It's like some things would be nice and like you kind of have a fantasy about right. They don't always turn out that way in real life and even the thing that looks great, even the marathon running is probably not that great. Right. Exactly. Okay, let's do a betchaicist. All right, I'll read this. Help. My in-laws think they're invited to my sister's wedding. For contacts, my husband and I have been together for eight and a half years, and our families have invited each other to various celebrations throughout the time. Also, my in-laws are immigrants and have a mikasa as su-casa approach to gatherings and aren't much for formalities. Although my sister has been

engaged for nearly two years, it wasn't top of mind for my in-laws until my 12-year-old niece, my husband's brother's daughter, was at my sister's house a week ago and overheard wedding talk and saw the invites and decor. And we'll leave it to my husband to deliver the news. And we'll leave it to my husband to deliver the news, but because of the nature of this issue, I do feel like I'm in the middle. We can't say that the wedding is immediate family only because it's quite a large wedding, the majority of which are relatives and friends of my soon-to-be brother-in-law. Debating whether I should inform my sister or mom of the predicament, whether my husband should inform his family soon or wait for the initial excitement my niece is feeling to fizzle out, and hopefully that by the summer

they will have other plans and will no longer be focused on the wedding. Any feedback is appreciated. So I guess her question is like should she tell her in-laws that they're not invited to her sister's wedding or let them just find out via non-invitation? Yes. Or I think it sounded like maybe there was a part of it, which is the root that I might take, considering they're close enough that his niece was at her sister's house, just saying, that she could mention it to the sister who maybe it was just an oversight.

Like I think that that could happen sometimes when you're making a list where it's like someone that you wouldn't mind inviting, especially if it's a large wedding, but you just kind of forgot. I don't know. You could tell me if you think she should push for the invite? I think she could say, hey, just wondering if you're planning to invite my in-laws because so-and-so saw the wedding invitation and she was like got all excited about it. So I know that they.

Yeah. You know, because it's her sister's wedding, I would feel like more comfortable saying asking my sister. Yes. Then my in-laws, then I would be more comfortable ask my sister if she was going to invite my in-laws than my in-laws if they were going to invite my sister. Right. It would be a more comfortable conversation. But I kind of assume if it's her sister and she knows they're not invited, means she's already had that discussion with her. Maybe, I guess. Yeah, if she knows for a fact that they're not invited, but maybe it's because they already sent out some.

stuff, not necessarily that she had the conversation and she said, no, I'm not planning on inviting them. Well, let's say she does have the conversation. She's like, yeah, it just wasn't planning on inviting your. The in-law's thing interesting. I don't know what the, is there a rule on that? Is it dependent on how close everyone is? Like, it does seem like an awkward thing.

I mean, our family, because we have like eight siblings. You'd have like an extra 20 people at the wedding if you invited all these. All the in-laws. Everyone's in-laws and then their siblings, like all that. You know what I mean? Like it would. It does seem kind of insane. So I don't know. Is there, I guess it's a case by case. I think there's arguments to be made for either way. Yeah. My feeling is, and this is just my personal feeling, because like you, for example, didn't invite Jeff's parents or Jeff's family to your wedding. And it's probably because you don't really, we live in different states. You don't really spend that much time with them. You don't have like a huge relationship with them. This one sounds

kind of like there's a relationship there. Like it sounds like they're local. They cut maybe live near each other. His niece is going to her sister's house. Like it almost and it there's like wedding stuff out that she's seeing like that to me it is what it is. If they're not invited, they're not invited. Like I don't think you to make a, I don't think this is one that's worth making that you could make a stink about and be like, I'm not coming if they're not invited or like make a big deal about it. But I do think it probably would have been nice to invite them, you know, if the girls at the house and you're putting to, like anyone who's at your house and seeing your wedding invitations and like the decor are getting ready, you think would be invited to the wedding, you know. Okay. So let's say they're not. Right.

she's like yeah I'm sorry you know the guess it was too high like hipar at capacity whatever that was a net I also do see where like if you need to cut yeah that's a place where you could cut where someone's in-laws are an easy cut if you're looking to cut so if that's the case do you think she should tell the in-laws that just just the heads up you're not invited or just not say anything and then let them come to you if they're upset yeah I would say something because I think as the wedding actually approaches and there's like conversation around going to the wedding or outfits for the wedding or you know whatever I think that I would just address it and it's not really her burden to bear it's because it wasn't her decision so she can kind of I mean not

she could kind of just throw her sister under the bus and be like I'm not sure why or she's this is the reason she gave and this is the you know she could talk to the sister and just hear the reason and just parrot the reason. Like, right. This is the reason she gave. And I, you know, I wish you guys were or I wish it would have been nice if you could come and I feel badly that you, that you're not invited, but I hope you understand. And I think it is better to get ahead of it because then as the wedding weekend approaches, I think it's just going to get awkward. Right. Yeah. Especially if the in-laws are normal and like they're not going to like freak out

or create like a months long rift or situation or weirdness I think it would be better I think if they were like super mature and someone said that to them they'd probably be fine with it. Right. Yeah, I hope that they would be okay with it.

I get why she's nervous because it does sound like they've been to a lot of each other's things and they do have kind of like more as more as merrier you know, whatever mentality. So I could see why she's a little. little nervous. Plus, she did give the little detail that the majority of the guests are from her

brother-in-law's side. So it's kind of like she might be owed a couple of extra guests also. So I could see why she's a little nervous to do it. But I'm a big fan of just like getting ahead of it, clear the air. And it's not this, I think she'll be having this lingering thing of like waiting for the in-laws to bring it up, which is just going to make her kind of anxious. long term. Yeah. No, I agree with that. All right. Well, we're going to go with then tell them ahead of time. It'll be less weird that way, I think. Maybe they don't even want to go. It sounds like they do. Yeah. You could hope that they don't want to. And honestly, that's the beauty. Ask the sister, let her give her reason, report the reason to your husband, and let him, I think that's fine.

if you let him say, this is the reason and, you know, this is the, this is the situation. That's it. And this has nothing to do with me. Right. And it really doesn't. So I don't think they have to, either one of them has to feel badly about it. And the truth is, if they're as distant as it seems that they are, they're probably not going to be around your sister that often that there's going to be tension or it's going to be awkward. And I doubt that they, like you said.

said. If they're reasonable, they're not going to, they're not going to make a big issue out of it either. Be like, well, now I'm not going to be kind to your sister when I see her. Well, good luck. Yeah, good luck. Not a fun convo. Yes. Listen to the difficult conversations, meditation for this one. Not fun, but I think it's better to rip the band-aid off than be thinking about it for however many months. Right. Let's do some intentions. All right. I will read them. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, thank you both for the wonderful podcast you've created. It truly provides a beautiful, secure, an incredibly funny space for all of us, becoming the highlight of my week. I love that. Me too. At 33, I find myself caught in an ongoing cycle with my ex, who is now 37.

We have been on again, off again for almost seven years. Despite both being successful in our careers and currently single with no kids, we face fundamental incompatibilities. Our relationship is characterized by an anxious, avoidant dynamic marked by numerous breakups, casual hookups, and constant reconciliations. Sometimes he expresses regret for losing me, of the blue, while other times when I reach out, he seems bothered by my approach. Exactly a year ago, after months of no contact, we reconnected with the intention of making things work. I quickly moved into his apartment and we started living together. Initially, life was great, but it took a turn for the worse. I consistently felt emotionally neglected. Fast forward

to September and the bliss turned into a breakup. Months of turning every conversation into an argument culminated in him ending our relationship the moment we returned from a trip, distraught and heartbroken, I moved back to my place, not sad over the breakup itself, but over the realization that my dreams with him were truly over. Recently, he reached out again and we've been in constant contact since New Year's Eve. He stays over at my place for days at a time, plans romantic outings, and getaways, but asserts that we are not dating. Fun. Despite expressing my desire for a shared life, he claims he hasn't given it much thought.

recent discoveries of dating app notifications have added to my distress i have asked him to please stop communicating with me if he's out meeting other people i can't share any of this with my friends and family as they would completely roll their eyes at the fact that i'm in touch with him again this has added so much anxiety and hurt to my life i found myself feeling alone and unsupported i have reached out to him during moments of anxiety only to be disappointed by his response and lack thereof i recognize that i need to move on from this situation and break the unhealthy attachment the fear of wasted time, the concern of never loving the same way again, and the worry of truly being as hard to love as he makes me feel linger. Can you help me set an intention to guide me in moving on from this? I'm drained, I'm exhausted, I know that I truly have no one else to blame for this hurt but myself. Thank you for your love and guidance, a lonely betch in her 30s. Oh, yeah, this is really hard. I really feel for her, but you got to run. You got to go.

He's not going to end this. I heard her say, like she kind of, and I think this is what happens is like she was trying to get him to end it by saying if you're going to be dating other people, please stop. And so she's like giving him the power to stop by like asking him to stop instead of her saying, I'm going to take back the power and I'm going to be the one to say that to end this. There is something that can feel, I know it's so, so, so scary. Like, I think we've all been in this position where we're not being treated well in a relationship. We're not getting what we want out of it.

But the idea of ending it is just so daunting. One thing she writes in there that's so important is like she is giving up on this dream of this person. Yes. It's like the story you've told yourself and like almost like the more conflict, the more you're like building up this like romanticized rom-com. version of what happens where like he's back and forth and back and forth and then suddenly he's like the man of your dreams and you're together forever and like I think sex in the city really like ruined that for a lot of people with like you know they have carry ending up with big yes which is like

absurd like that was like the worst message you could possibly sent is that like this person that sort of keeps you at arm's length for years and years and years and years one day just decides like you're the girl for him right and then they end up and then they end up and you're the girl for him right and then they it before he gets to show that he's still the emotionally unavailable douchebag that he was the entire time while they're in relationship it's like almost like well we ended up together so we must be happily ever after but now I'm sure he's still if we play that whole thing out maybe he's committed but he's still not going to be the partner that you're really looking for right but people still like root for them yes because there's this feeling of like you want to feel like you like won the thing

Yes. Yes. And I totally get it. And I think the bigger question, like you said, kind of about like, you know, taking back the power or any of that, I think it's, the bigger question is like, and I think this is probably something to work through with a therapist because it doesn't happen immediately is like, why do I think I deserve this? Like, why does this feel so good?

Why can I leave or not? And why haven't I left yet? Why am I still kind of? Why am I not unattracted to someone who treats me like this instead of maybe more attracted in some ways? Yes. And it sounds like she's done a lot of the work. She gives us a lot of information. She writes all of the fears, all the reasons why she can't leave.

Fear of wasting time, which I think is a big one of why people don't want to leave. Because it's sort of like, well, I'm this age. And I've already given this person. Yes. So it would be so much easier to just make this. work than it is to start completely fresh with someone that's a total stranger, which is irrational thinking because he's proven that like he's capable of wasting seven years of your life already and another seven years is probably not going to bother him.

Right. So the idea of I'm going to stay so I don't waste time. It's like you're taking the train to wasting time land. You know that that's where this train is going. that's the only place it's ever gone. Right. And then I think something that helps for me or helped for me in a similar situation would be like, why don't you fast forward and like the way you feel right now,

you're still speaking to him, but you're not getting what you want. Imagine you're, she's 33. Imagine you're 40. Yes. And that's where you are and that's the same situation. And then you're 45. And then that's your whole life. Yes.

It's not, you know. Well, it's not your whole life. Your life doesn't end at 45. Well, no. It doesn't. I couldn't mean say, but it has the potential to like, like, what, what is the like, like, it could be so much longer. Yes. And it will be.

I really feel like this is not, this is not going to end well if she keeps putting her energy into it. So yeah, I totally agree. And she, you know, it's funny because she really laid out a lot of the concerns that people have, fear of wasting time, concern of never loving the same way. again. I think a lot of people have that feeling of like, this was a connection, this was a spark. This is the only time I've ever felt this way. Like, how am I ever going to find this unique, passionate love again? And it's hard to picture it before you've lived it. So it can be really scary to let go of that when it sometimes it is hard to find that spark, that connection, that thing. We both are attracted to each other. We both enjoy each other's company. We laugh together. We,

have the same interests, all the things that make it feel great. I think there's also a feeling of like, I can't, is it like, am I delusional or like, I don't understand how like I feel this strong, intense way and this other person like doesn't. Yeah. Well, it sounds like it's almost back to the Jared apartment conversation where like he could feel like she's great. I'm attracted to her. I love spending time with her.

I, you know, I like what I like. but also like when I don't want to, I want to be able to say, nah, don't feel like it. Right. Or you also have a, maybe he also has a thing where like he's always looking for something more. Yeah. Or something that maybe doesn't exist or something that some other unquantifiable thing that he will never find. Yes. Maybe.

Yeah, very possible. So, you know, I get it. There is that part of like, why, like, am I delusional? that I feel like this connection is like worthy of effort, you know, real more effort. That keeps her stuck. And then this is, you know, this is the part that I think you're hitting the nail on the head on, like figuring out why she thinks this is what she deserves. She says the worry of truly being as hard to love as he makes me feel.

So there's something about the fact that she spent seven years with someone who probably hasn't made her feel safe or really. fully loved for all of her vulnerabilities, accepted, yes. She hasn't felt that way. And it's been seven years. Like her brain has been altered by this person now in a way where now she just, you know, feels like that she's accepted that not having that safety is just kind of how it is. So I think if she can see forward and this is kind of what I was writing and my intention for her,

like see forward through the hard part of the longing and the discomfort of wanting him and wanting to reach out to see that on the other side of this, there's something that feels much safer where you feel more accepted and truly loved. And, you know, that is on the other side of this. And as long as you're with him, I don't think it's in the cards for you. Yeah. So, yeah, one thing, other thing I was on that note that I was going to say about this kind of situation is I remember kind of being in an off period from like a sit kind of a situation ship

like this and then getting a text from him to like reconnect and like you know so excited getting that like fantasized situation in my mind I remember texting our brother our brother Josh at the time and I was like he reached out like it's like it's gonna be so different whatever blah blah and he's like listen, like, you can do whatever you want here. But like when you're ready to like have a real relationship, when you're ready to do something real, this isn't going to be interesting to you anymore. So it sounds like it still is. So like if it is like do your thing.

But like just know that like it's not real. And when you're ready for something real, you will not be as excited about it. Right. He gave you a little motivational interviewing speech basically. Yes. And I remember it. And I mean, it was, it was true. And at the time, I was definitely not ready for something real.

You did it anyway. No, I answered. But it was like, but that thing was because I was going to answer no matter what he said. And but I always had that in the back of my mind. That wasn't the last time that I answered. And then eventually when I was ready for something real, I stopped answering. Yes. Yeah.

And it really is, a lot of it is biochemistry. like it is so addictive, like that thing that you experience, like when you got the text after so long, and especially if you're not feeling great about yourself and you're not feeling super confident, like it doesn't sound like she is, then that little boost of dopamine is just that much more powerful because you're kind of not feeling it that often. And I feel for her. I do think that this is tough, but it's going to feel really good. when you say no it's going to hurt but it's also going to feel really good to be like I'm taking

control I'm not going to let you do this to me again yeah and maybe that involves blocking someone yes not because they're a monster but because you you know it's easier for you you can't it's harder to control yourself like it's easier when the like to get the purchase to purge the person from your life and then, you know, work on meeting people who are emotionally available. Yes. I'm a big fan of blocking until you regain your strength because it's just too hard. It's like an alcoholic trying to get over the urge to drink, but like, you know, you're like standing right outside the bar and peeking inside and open to, you know,

someone saying, hey, come on in, you know, like it's really tempting. So I think that blocking doesn't, a lot of people, I think, feel like if you block someone, it's like an act of aggression. I don't think it's an active aggression. I think it's like just self-protective and doesn't mean you have to hate them, but it is, it's you taking action that you can then be forced to sit in the discomfort of that and, you know, do something different. Because if nothing changes, nothing changes.

She just keeps thinking that she's going to magically something different's going to happen without her actually doing something different like blocking him. It's not going to happen. That's a move towards like, I'm doing this differently. Yeah. I totally see where like she's like, I can't even tell my friends and family. It almost like, and it does, it's weird to call it an addiction, but I really do think it is. I think you can be addicted to a person.

Yes. And maybe it's a dynamic or. I don't know how you would love addiction, whatever it is. But it is. I mean, when you're like, I can't tell anyone because I've already like been off the sauce. I'm like embarrassed myself. I'm like over talked about it. It's like it does feel like this thing where you don't have any, your rational brain knows like don't drink. Don't answer this person. But it's like the high you get feels so worth it. Yes. And I'm glad you brought that up because I do think she needs like a sponsor. Like she needs one person that, and it's funny because they should have this almost,

like they have it for lots of other addictions. Like someone who's been through a breakup who had to like block a person and you could go on a registry and be like, call me, I got your back when you're thinking of texting him. Yes. 10 p.m. Yes. And like here's a list of people that you can call who've been through the same thing who can talk you off the ledge. But in reality, in your life, I would try to find one person, a friend. Maybe a therapist, but I think there's something different about a sponsor type friend who's just going to be there that you can call it two o'clock in the morning after he's text you up text. And now you're sitting there being like, I really just want to go over there and that you can kind of talk you down. So I would see if you can find within your group of friends and

family someone who could be like, I'm really struggling. I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this, but I'm going to try. Would you be willing to be there and support me either way? And hopefully you can find someone who can do that. And then go on dates with other people. Yes. Yes. And again, I think when she talks about like the spark, I think there's something about

it's easy to confuse the spark with like this feeling of excitement because of withholding. Right. And I think when you're dating, sometimes someone who's really emotionally available can seem really boring because there's not that like push and pull and mystery and like you know jolt of anxiety slash like anxiety is kind of the spark yes yeah it's a very similar feeling it really is true it's very similar feeling anxiety and then like exhilaration have that same kind of butterfly feeling so it's hard to tease them apart I agree if you can bring yourself to just go out with other people and block him. So the intention that I wrote for her, and it kind of comes back to

the beginning where you said this is an idealized love that she's seeking. I don't think it's the majority of the time, it doesn't sound like this is the person that's making her feel really happy. But I wrote, I will ride out the waves of longing for an idealized love. No contact is the fast path to freedom and a feeling of safety in love. Because I think she's afraid of wasting time. So I wanted to put in there something that will remind her that this is the fastest path. Right.

The fastest path is not like, you know, giving in to accepting something that's not making you feel good. The fast path is no contact for as long as you possibly can. That's it. So if you want to not waste any more time, I would block him, go out with other people. The first two weeks are going to be the hardest. The next two weeks are going to be the hardest after that. And I think if you really can go a month with no contact, you'll start to feel some relief.

And this is an idealized situation. The real hymn is the one, and she said it herself, that's making you feel hard to love. Very relatable. I hope lots of our listeners can, let's call it the week of the block. Yeah. Block them. Block them. It's block them March. Block everyone. See who's left in April and marry them. Let's do some triggers. We've got our first one and it's a voicemail. So let's roll the tape. Hi, Dordana. Naomi. This is Oana. I am calling with a triggered scenario where my husband The husband and I went to a baby shower. It was for his cousin and his cousin with them.

We were super excited to celebrate. There are a big boy coming into the world. We went to this baby shower at one of the girlfriend's friends' houses. We showed up. The vibe was really weird. Nobody really talked to us when we first walked in. Nobody answered the door when we got there. So we were initially already off to a rough start.

Then we get to the opening presence section. and we're going through, my husband and I, we just brought a card because we had our present shipped directly to them because that is what they had on their registry. So they open our card last every time when the host was picking up a present. She would pick up the card that we left and would try to give it with the present. And everyone's like, know that's on our card, know this on our card, know this on our card. And we're like, nope, that's ours. It's okay. and so that was a little awkward

so they opened the card and it's like we let them a nice message like so excited for you guys et cetera and when they look up to thank us we were like you're welcome and the host turns around and looks at me and my husband and goes just to and we were like

yeah we have the gift shift to them because it was a little too big to like bring and she goes sure in exactly that tone and I had to clench my fists because I was standing there and I was so bad like hey we wouldn't get them a present which I mean financially we're able to do but what if financially we couldn't time those were also the first words that the host said out of her mouth so we prompting for like three or four hours after that um yeah I just wanted to know how

triggered you guys would be in that scenario. I appreciate you guys listening to be rant and ramble and appreciate all that you do. Thanks so much. Bye. That's crazy. That is really, really rude. I feel like we've gotten a lot of baby shower triggered issues a lot lately. But this is just so rude.

Like maybe she was drunk or something. I don't know. This sounds kind of nuts. A card? that's it sure yeah that's insane so i guess it wasn't the it wasn't the mother to be it was the host yeah the cousin's best friend or friend who whatever was the host and the fact that she didn't say anything else right like didn't address them that it was awkward to begin with like it's probably like embarrassing in front of oh my gosh really embarrassing like putting someone on the

but she seems like an extremely confrontational person. I almost, I hate to say this. I'm going to say it. I'll say it, I'll phrase it in this way. If that was me, I might be a little paranoid that there was some kind of a negative discussion about me or something prior to that, like that she already didn't like them for some reason. And either that or she's just was drunk or she's just an extremely abrasive confrontational human. Right.

Or maybe she's like extremely controlling and she wanted all the gifts to be gifts or something like that. I don't know. Sounds like a her issue, some sort of, imagine how miserable you would have to be to like. Oh, my goodness. Say that to someone. And just unaware of how embarrassing it would be to call someone out. Yeah, like what if that was the only gift? Yeah.

It's really tough because it's her friend. You can't really say anything, but it was just extreme. I would have left immediately after and been really annoyed by that as well. I agree. I would give it an eight. Yeah. I think I would give it an eight too. And look, I could be wrong.

I don't want her to start spinning around that I think that they're like all talking shit behind her back because this might just be that she's just a very rude conference. representational person. But that is a thing that people do. Like sometimes you don't want to carry a baby swing with you on the train to go to a baby shower. No, I think that's totally normal. I've done that for like bridal showers, engagement party. I don't ever bring an engagement gift to an engagement party.

It would always like mail something from the registry or something. I don't know. Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, look, maybe she could have made sure that it got there in time. That's the one thing that maybe you could have done differently. but even if it did get it there a little later like whatever you have a year to get someone a wedding gift yeah baby's not even here yet totally yeah this is really triggering i validate this is an eight i've never heard of such a thing i wonder what time of day the baby shower was maybe it was the last gift

and she was drunk or something right or something else happened that just pissed her off and she took it out on her oh brutal not nice not nice All right. Why don't you read our last trigger? I'll read the last one. Okay. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I find myself triggered by this scenario with my husband and I'm not sure if I should be. My husband and I have been married now for over two years and have been together for five years for context. He has an ex-girlfriend that he dated about 10 years ago that was a pretty serious relationship and when we first started dating, they would still keep in touch and regularly chat. I'm admittedly a pretty jealous person and even though the conversations were platonic, I let him know early on that it made me uncomfortable.

He ended up ending the friendship with her due to this. They haven't spoken since then and are no longer following each other on social media. However, being that they were in a serious relationship and their lives were pretty intertwined, he still to this day keeps up with a couple of this ex-girlfriend's family members on a monthly basis. Her mom, her dad, brother, sister, and other extended family members are all friends with him on social media and are frequently messaging with him. Even his ex's dad friend requested me on Facebook and will often comment on my posts of our family, children, etc.

I know I probably shouldn't be triggered by this, but it seems strange to me to keep up with people from a past that was so long ago. I too have had other serious relationships that have never kept up with my exes or their families as it's in the past for me. I did ask my husband about these relationships and the need to stay in touch. And he's always said that her family has always been very supportive of him and are like family to him. What do you both think? Should I be triggered by this? Or is this something I just need to accept and let go of? Sincerely jealous, bitch. Well, I think it was a good move that he ended the friendship. Right. With the ex. I think that's the most important piece. Yes. I think it's

hard to like say like what he should do in this situation like is he supposed to block all of her family members that does seem a little extreme yes i think some acknowledgement that it's very weird on his that would help would would help that would that would definitely help because this is weird like this is yeah look that's a part of grieving the loss of a breakup that people don't talk about probably enough if you've been really intertwined with their family that is a loss like you have to grieve the relationship but you have to also grieve the loss of the relationship that you've had with that person's family if you've developed a closeness with them. If they were young, they could have lived together.

Like, I don't know exactly, you know, how that went. I'd need to know, like, what the extent of the messaging? Like, what are they messaging about? What would they even have to be speaking about? It sounds like maybe comments about social media posts. Like, I think it sounds like most of the messaging is on social media, like, publicly. That's the vibe that I get. that it's mostly like, oh, like, looks great or, you know, so cute.

I can't decide if that's better or worse. It's like, almost like embarrassing. Like, what's great? Who are these people? So, yeah, I think he skipped the, he took the easy way out of the relationship and grieving the loss of that relationship, which most people do, which is like, no, I'm not going to be like best friends with your dad anymore. That's hard, you know, like me and your brother were really close.

And now I can't talk to him anymore. And that's hard. it sounds like he didn't do the work and kind of let it linger. I don't know what his family situation is. Sometimes this happens when like if you don't have a super supportive family of your own, then these types of relationships can feel like a surrogate. Right. Like it's your, that is your family even though it is not.

Right. So I wonder if that's part of it. If he's like not super close with his own family and his own siblings that he kind of needs to do this. She's not saying that he's not close with her family. So that's like he's close enough with your family, that that's not what's bothering her here, that he's closer with them than he is with her own family.

But yeah, acknowledgement that this is weird might help. Again, I wouldn't ask him to like block everyone or tell him to fuck off. But I would say like maybe just be a little less responsive. Yes. You could do like it's been, I mean, his ex of 10 years ago, they're still speaking to him. clearly hasn't done a slow enough fade.

Extended family. Yeah. Right. You know, the way that we do it in our family is like cold turkey cut off. Oh, yeah. That's it. You're gone. You're out.

I mean, that's just the way it is. Right. It's healthier for everybody. It really is healthy. It helps the other person move on. It helps the person that you're closer to move on. Yeah, I agree. I think he could.

he can agree to like a slow fade. And maybe you can even say, let's say he, we don't have any of this information, but let's say he lost his father. And this person was like a surrogate father to him. And he wants to maintain like that one relationship. And he's explaining to you why it's so important to you

that this person is really meaningful to him in some way. Okay, great. Pick one. And then the rest of them put on a slow fade. because this sounds excessive. That's fair. Yeah. I agree.

I would say, I mean, the fact that they're friending you is almost a good sign. Yeah. It's like, it's clearly, it's clearly so not about the relationship.

Yes. I would say. Yeah. So that's the, that is true. This is not threatening. It's just weird. Weird.

Yeah. I'd give it like, I think talking to the ex-girlfriend would have been more triggering, but it seems like he doesn't do that anymore. I'm surprised the ex-girlfriend doesn't mind. mind that he's still talking to all of her family members.

I would give it, I don't know, maybe a six. It is weird and it's kind of public. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, the fact that they're messaging her kind things about their, and they're married and they have kids. So it's not like that they're messaging her like kind things about their children together makes it feel also non-threatening.

Like they're acknowledging their joint life together. They're acknowledging her presence. They're not like, I do think it would be worse if it was only him. And they were like ignoring the fact that he was married to someone else and had children with someone else. And maybe it really is like, okay, this was 10 years ago. There's nothing to be protective of or defensive about at this point. Right.

And maybe they were dating. He doesn't say like what stage of life they were dating. But if they were dating, let's say like they started dating in high school. Again, I can sort of see like it almost feels like they're like your family friend. or they're like someone who maybe helped raise you if you were over there all the time or something like that. Yeah, totally. So, yeah, weird, but I also think if you could just let it go and unless it's happening

with such frequency that it's like bothering you on a regular basis, validated that this is excessive and weird, but I don't think it's threatening because they're interacting with you also. I would just make fun of it a lot and see if he gets on board. That would definitely be your method. Yeah. You're like, so, how's Susan doing? How's the crock pot chili coming along? Anytime you need a babysitter, I would just be like, why don't you call Stacy's mom?

Yeah. She seems like she'd be interested in the job. That is so true. Yeah, you could try that and see if that annoys him enough where he does the slow fade on his own. Yeah, that's always the best method. Sick of hearing about it. Yeah, I'll give it like a five. Five and a half.

Yeah, but weird for sure. Yes. Totally not the norm. I would feel weird also if I were her. So I validated. All right. Well, that's the end of this. I do, you know, I just want to vocalize my emotion and ending this episode.

This is our last episode with our producer, Sean. Sean, we love you. We're going to miss you. We're going to miss you. Come back. You can be a guest producer. some point, please. I would, I would love that. I always, like, enjoyed logging on seeing his face. And so we're going to miss you. Thanks for all the good times. Sean's the best. We're going to miss

him at Oversharing. We're going to miss him at Betches. And we hope we see more of you at some point, Sean. For sure. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby. Editing by Jazz Apados. Guest booking by Allie Friedlander. And send your emails to Oversharing at Betches.com. pages.