Oversharing - How Do I Get My Partner To Exercise?

Episode Date: December 17, 2024

This week, Jordana tells Dr. Naomi about her new therapist, and how she’s getting accustomed to her gentle approach. Our Overshare comes from a physically fit Betch who worries that her fiancé isn���t prioritizing his health. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener who feels uncomfortable with how a friend handled a financial transaction. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for social anxiety around infertility and other people’s perceptions. And we’re feeling triggered by friends who assign tasks without asking, and friends who make assumptions about our finances behind our back. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham and I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And we are back after a week apart. So, so tough.

I missed you. Same. Yeah. this is become, it's funny, this has become sort of my weekly, like catch up slash therapy slash everything. But it's been about a year since I thought, I know, where to best give the therapy update. It's been about a year since I stopped seeing my old therapist when I was triggered with his, like, changing the rate and then not telling me, my own triggered. Yes. Or charging me while telling me the rate. It was like a whole thing. If you want to,

want the details, go back to last December's episode. but I found a new therapist. Oh, wow. So you were triggered enough that you were like, it's more this person than just like, this is a sign that I don't need to be in therapy right now. Right. I think it was a little bit of that. It was a little bit of like, you know, like I had seen this last person for this, for mostly like,

he had really helped me with like dating and relationship stuff when I was single and then getting into a relationship and then like creating him. healthy relationship dynamics. But as I like kind of moved into different phase of my life, I did feel a little bit like it maybe wasn't as helpful for the new phase that I needed help with. And sometimes I do think it's nice to get like a fresh perspective, you know? Right. Totally. After so many years, like, you know, just having someone else that can make you think about things in a different way. So I don't think that's, I think that's a good idea. So. Yeah. But I had, so it was an interesting experience because my other therapist, I really, you know, my first therapist, I really like, he's very like no bullshit. Right. So I felt like, okay, like this, this feels like a good vibe. Like I, you know, like it felt comfortable to me. So I started seeing this new therapist. who's a woman, and she's probably like, I would say about, I don't know how old she is, but she seems like she's about my age, give or take five years in either direction.

So, somewhere between 30 and 40. Right. But it was interesting because, like, you know, I saw her and I started off the session, and my immediate feeling, like, when I was starting off was like, no, like, this isn't for me. I mean, she was like, she's like very, she's really, like, sweet and nice and like really soft spoken. And I think my initial thought was like, this feels uncomfortable all over her. Maybe something like that. Or just like, I don't know, like too sweet or too nice or too like, she has like a little bit of like therapist voice for sure.

And then, you know, it started off like my gut reaction was like no. And then by the time the episode was like, not, I'm going to talk episode. So I'm so used to therapy being on this show. By the time the session was over. But the time my therapy session aired, I felt totally different about it. That's exactly. That's time everyone heard it and I was getting the live feedback. No, by the time it ended, I was like, okay, this actually felt really good in like a different way. Like I almost had to, and almost like the discomfort, I think it's the discomfort that I felt about her.

kind of felt like at the end by the end was like a little bit just what I needed like I needed a different yeah kind of experience in that moment maybe something that was less comfortable but that was kind that's maybe what it's more of like missing from my life this like a little bit of like a codily like maternal like soothing vibe as opposed to like get over it like you know like we're like well it's not that terror it's not that terrible it's not that. Like my last therapist, I think, was a little bit more like it's not so terrible. Right. And with her, she, you know, I felt like I could, you know, felt very validated in like pain and

feelings and all these things. And which again, felt like kind of weird and uncomfortable to me. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's, that is really interesting that you kind of came around to it. And it really is interesting because as a therapist, I think, and I probably. talked about this on here, you know, at least my style is in the beginning, you're hearing the

story, you're holding all this space for all this emotion. You're like really connecting with the person and their experience and what they're going through. And there's a huge amount of space for just holding that person's emotions and sitting with them in their feelings, which maybe is the part that initially made you uncomfortable. And that's the biggest complaint that I get a lot of times from people that are coming to me from another therapist is like they were great at listening, but I didn't get much back. Like I didn't get a lot of feedback or insight or like direction or whatever it is that you're looking for that's more than just someone who's going to just quietly listen and validate.

So sometimes that can feel like in the beginning. maybe what you experienced, I can feel like, what are you bringing to the table here other than listening to me? But I think what you were feeling towards the end is like, it does really feel nice to have someone just be with you and validate and like sit in your feelings with you and just like create space for that. But I think what happens after you see someone for years and years and years or even like a year or two is like it becomes and this is what happens with a lot of my patients is it can get to that point where you're kind of saying the same story you're having the same feelings it becomes a little bit repetitive or like it turns into like a rumination

and that's where then the therapy has to kind of shift a little bit more towards okay now this is like you're ruminating on this thing there's not a these thoughts are not new. Right. And we can still sit and hold the feelings, but when the content of like this rumination content starts to fill the space, that's why you might have been getting a different vibe from your therapist, perhaps after years and years than when you first walked in the room.

Right. And we're like, I'm lonely, I'm single. Like he might have been really soft and sweet and loving. And then after you're like, you know, it's the same. different content, same basic underlying stuff. So you think I just like her because she's new? I think she's probably holding space for you in a different way because you're new. Right.

Okay. And I don't think you just like her because she's new. I think you like her because she is probably like a brand new container for your emotions, which is wonderful. That's like what a therapist should be is kind of a space. to just be with you and your emotions, but a lot of times therapy becomes about like the content of your day or your week. Right. Or, you know, it's more like a storytelling thing than it is like a place for like,

you know, to share and have your emotions be, to have someone sit with you and your emotions. Right. So do you not believe in like therapy vibes? Oh, of course. Do you know what I'm saying? You're saying like the connection between you and your therapist? I guess what I'm hearing from you is like the therapist.

the therapists all have like the same way of doing things and you just and you're enjoying this person because like it's a new person to like fully vent out into no I don't think that's what I'm saying what I'm saying is I think that you your relationship with the other therapist might have been a little bit more like he's like I've heard this we've discussed this like you said before kind of like that he was kind of like all right you know get over it or I'm sure he wasn't saying get over it but like there was a feeling of like, okay, and now what? Yeah. Right.

We have insight. And then once you have the insight, now what? Now you have to actually make the changes and do the thing and like, you know. Right. Yeah, I think it's a little bit of that. But I also just think, I think it really was more about the vibe of the person almost. Like not. Do you know what I mean?

Her softer, just being a little bit softer and sweeter. Yeah. I felt like that was maybe better for like this. potentially better for this phase of my life or like, I don't know, I don't think that my issue with my other therapist was like, you know, we've done all this before. Like, I do think it might have been more of his approach and like how is and how that, I mean, again, I guess it's hard to compare when you've been to like two or three sessions with someone versus six or seven years with someone. Yes. Yeah. And I, what I hear is kind of that maybe she's,

She is giving you more of like a loving, caring, soft vibe than like, here's your problem. We're going to fix it. And maybe you're at a place in your life where you're a little bit more mature. You're definitely way more self-aware that you might be needing something really different now than you did when you were in your 20s. Where maybe at that point you needed like a little bit more of a, you know, like a fatherly type. Like get it together. Right. Make these different choices or why are you making these choices versus dating these people versus these people?

And now you're like, no, I've made good choices. It's not about really my choices. It's more about like my feelings. Yeah. No, I do think that's the case. I feel like it's less about my, my, like I don't think I'm, like, maybe it's before, like there was something I was doing that was holding me back. And now I don't feel like that's necessarily an issue.

Yes. So you don't need like someone to come in and like give you the real talk. of what you really need. You just need someone to be, yeah, just listen and be softer. And I hope she, you know, that it really sounds great. And I love that the fact that over a 50-minute session, you watched yourself do the initial, like, this is new and uncomfortable and I want to reject it. And then relax.

Well, it's like I want to reject it. And I almost wanted to speak to someone who would reject it in the beginning. Do you know what I mean? Right. Because that's comfortable. That's like, oh, we're a mat. Like me and the therapist are a match because. We both don't want to feel sorry for me.

Yes. That is so funny that you brought that up because, like, there isn't the intentions email that we have coming up. I'm looking forward to talking with you about it because I struggled to, the whole thing is like she doesn't want to be pitied. Right. And the topic of like this aversion that people have. to someone feeling bad for them is really interesting. And I think that's maybe what's coming up here as she was looking at you more like,

I want to hear what you're going through. I'm like leaning in and this super empathic, like, you know, you said, feel bad for me kind of thing. Interesting. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's funny because we were taught, I was talking to her in like subsequent session about like, I guess like, I mean, it's funny.

This concept of holding space, it's like memeified right now. I don't know if you've seen the wicked. memes. Oh, no. It's become like a big joke holding space. Send it to me. I'll send you the meme. It's like very, it's kind of funny. But she was talking about, you know, like feeling like kind of what you talk about like feeling your feelings and, you know, with with Mike or like with other people. And then, um, I was like, okay. Like I could try that. But then like, and then what? Right. Like, and then what do we do? After we, like, sat and,

felt and like you know and i maybe that's the thing about like this the like the pity of others or the the the self-pity is the is the thing of like okay we did that and like what is the and you know we we're we're always talking about like the productive society of like what are we doing to advance the cause or the advanced the situation or like get to the next level and so i think for me and perhaps a lot of other people there's this feeling of like this this the feelings or sitting and feeling doesn't like really do much for anyone. Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean, I would I would argue that it does in the sense that I think allowing the feelings will then kind of clear the space the rest of the time. Because I think what that mind chatter, which is really what's upsetting you, right? Like your life isn't upsetting you or your situation isn't upsetting you. It's your thoughts about your situation that are upsetting you.

So if you can allow yourself to hold space, have someone that holds space or like feel your feelings, then you're kind of like leaning into the hard stuff. And then because you allow yourself to lean into the hard stuff, you don't need all that chatter to protect you from it the rest of the time. Is it possible to make the chatter go away? I think you can quiet it. I don't think you can make it go away, but I think you can notice when it's there. And once you notice when it's there, then you can just kind of just relax into it. And it will

go away, I think, more quickly than when you keep doing the thing of like, okay, well, now what do I have to do to make this go away? That's what perpetuates it. That's what gets you on like the hamster wheel of like, this feels bad. I don't want to feel this. So I'm not going to hold space. I'm not going to feel my feelings. I'm just going to keep trying to think my way out of this in perpetuity until it goes away because the universe will make it go away because we don't really have control. And then there'll be another thing that I'm going to feel uncomfortable about that then I'm going to think about and try to control because I don't want to lean into it in perpetuity until the universe makes it go away and then I'll find the next thing. So the idea is that the idea.

almost to like lean into it so that it gets quieter. Yeah, so you're not, if you're not afraid of it, like if you get to know it and you're not afraid of it, then you won't need to feel so busy trying to worry about it because that makes us feel like we're doing something when you just ruminate and worry. Right. Feels like, oh, I'm doing so. I'm not just accepting this because I don't want this and it feels bad to like accept this. So I'm just going to ruminate and worry and think about it and have all this.

mind chatter around it to protect me from having a big ugly cry with my therapist or my husband or my friend or by myself or whatever because that feels terrible and weak and uncomfortable and all the things that it feels. So at all costs, I'm going to avoid that and I'm going to avoid that by worrying about this problem, which gives me the illusion that I'm doing something about it when I'm really not. Okay, I like that as a solution, I guess. I mean, I think if you really, and it's not going to make it go away. It's just going to make you become more aware of when you're being pulled into like the

mind chatter around your quote problem. So if you're more aware, does that actually help you? Yeah, because then in that moment, once you become aware, you can just notice that I'm going down, like notice where your mind's going. Oh, I've been here a million times. Like, whatever it is, I'm going to think about what I have to do or what text I have to send or who I should call or just ruminate about this situation. And you're like, this isn't helpful. This is like the place that I, this is the problem. Right. That is the problem. That thought pattern is the problem. So then you can come back to, you keep pulling yourself back to this moment, your breath. Or

just relax into that, that thought, that, you know, struggle and kind of make that choice. Okay, do I want to go down this magnetic path that I keep being pulled to go down? Or do I want to notice what's in front of me in this moment? Or even, I don't know, pull out your phone and play a game or take a shower or a chain, go for a walk or do something different. or if you are going for a walk, you know, pay attention to the color of the sky or the trees or whatever's around you, that's your power to choose your own mindset. But you can't choose your own mindset if you're not even aware that you're like caught in a ditch of thoughts. So I was going to say earlier when we were first starting about this meditation experience that I had, that I've had

it in my life before, but I really have only had it when I'm doing a lot of meditation. Like I'm spending time. And for whatever reason, lately, I've been having a chance to do it more. I've been doing it with my groups more. I've been doing it on my own more. I've just been spending more time there. And what I've noticed happens is you almost, or like in this moment, when I come to that place of quiet and I get there for a little bit longer and I can spend a little bit more in that place of I'm not driving myself nuts with all my thoughts, you really start to almost, it sounds cheesy, but I'll say it, like you start to fall in love with yourself in that space. The same way when you fall in love with a partner, you're like,

there's something about being in this space with this person that feels so good. Like it just feels like a real sense of belonging or a sense of acceptance or I just feel really there's a wonderful feeling of being with this other person. Right. And if you cultivate enough time being alone in kind of like as the master of your mind in that moment where you're like, this. space of just me and my quiet mind is like all that I want. Like it just feels really peaceful and calm. It's just practice. Sounds hot. It's not. It's just a general,

just generally meditating. Not like a it's I real my experience my personal experiences it comes from just spending more time practicing and okay um it doesn't matter. What's the level you need to get to, to get to this, like, self in love with yourself level? It's, I think it's different for every person, but I think if it's daily, that really helps, or if it's not daily, it's, like, longer. Like, how many minutes daily? 15 minutes, 15 minutes. But sometimes if I have time, I'll do, you know, 20 minutes or, you know,

30 minutes as a longer meditation, but I think if you can sit just, and the thing about the meditation that I want people to understand is it's not about, like, and I don't want people to be seeking this either, because that's not going to work, right? Like, yeah, you can't go into it being like, I'm seeking this feeling of being in love with myself. You have to go into it just with a mindset of like, I am just going to watch my mind, just watch it. Watch it go to the wherever it goes. And the mantra that I use that's actually been helping for me, it's like a two-part mantra. One is, I'm here, like when you are present with your mind and your body.

So like for that split second that you're like, I'm really thinking about my breath. I'm really thinking about something sensory that's unfolding in front of me in my body. I am here. And then your mind is going to wander. And even in these meditations where I do experience this feeling, my mind has wandered. It's gone off. It happens every single time I meditate. It goes to wherever it goes.

And then when I notice it, I'm not like mad at myself. I'm not like, oh, I can't do this or like, oh, no, this isn't where I should be. I just catch myself and then I say, and I'm back. And then I come back. I come back to the breath. I come back to where it's just like a very non-judgmental. And every time you do it, you're like, oh, okay, great, I'm back. It's not like, why did it take so long for me to get back?

Why this is so hard. It's just, oh, okay, good. I caught it and I'm back. And you just catch it and come back. And it's not, even if you're gone the entire time and you catch it and come back, just being very gentle with yourself about it. Still counts. Still counts.

It's beautiful. It's perfect. It's amazing. You could be gone for 13 minutes. And then, oh, okay, I was off and I'm back. And then you come back. And it doesn't even matter necessarily even how long you stay back. It's just that it's more the process of notice.

you're gone and coming back than it is about staying there. And then after a while, you start to really see the difference. Oh, when I'm here, I feel really nice. I feel really at peace when I can just allow myself to be. And then you start to notice, oh, I get to control that. I'm the one that's in control here. Do you ever have this feeling when you're meditating or thinking about meditating when there's a part of you that's like well like we can't just sit here all day meditating or like or like if you did like would you even have a life like what are like do what are like you i think of like these monks in a monastery or something yes um and you're almost like it almost feels like you're like leaving your life yes yes in a way 100% i've probably had that

exact thought while i'm meditating where i'm almost like a kind of like a kind of If this is so great and the goal is to do this like as much as possible, then like, what are we doing? What does that say about like the life that we have? Like our real life, quote unquote. And I'm back. That's meditation, right? You have that thought. Your mind is going off.

What is the purpose of this? What is why? What am I doing? Why is this productive? What's the lung? And I'm back. And then you just, I mean, could we get into that? Sure, we have a podcast.

We talk about stuff. We can get into that. But that is an example of a place that your mind will go when you're meditating and then you notice it and then you just come back. And I do think that, you know, the reality of somebody leaving, any of our listeners leaving their life to just meditate like, you know, 20 hours a day is not. likely and that's i don't think that's the goal the goal is just to be more aware of where your mind is because your mind is what's making you crazy your mind is what's making you really feel

upset or like not well or worried or any of those things so just becoming more aware that that's within your control at any given moment so like as you're walking through your day today And you start going down some rabbit hole of fear or what's going to happen or worry or what if. And I'm back. And I'm back. Maybe we should rename the podcast. And I'm back. I actually thought of like, I mean, you probably think this is crazy.

But like if I ever got a tattoo to have it be something like that, like just a reminder of like. And I'm back. And I'm back. Go get one with you. for our 40th and 50th in five years. Let's do it. All right. Let's get into these episodes.

If you want to join one of Dr. Naomi's therapy groups, where do they find you? Naomi Bernstein.com. Check it out. Come join us. It's a really beautiful community. I think you guys will really love it. We learn all about this stuff. We talk about how to find peace of mind, but there's also just this beautiful.

beautiful community, sharing, listening. Yeah, it's awesome. Naomi Bernstein.com. Check it out. Awesome. And then we are going to be switching up our subscription offering. We're going to have more on that for you next week, but just wanted to let you guys know we are revamping our subscription episodes.

But if you want to subscribe, you can subscribe, get the episodes ad-free, and we'll let you know all about how we're going to be changing it up, starting in 2025, but more on that next week. All right. I'm really excited for that. So stay tuned. Same here. All right. And if you want to leave us a voicemail, you can leave us a voicemail at 646363-66-263-6294 or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. I will read our first overshare. Okay. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I'm hoping to get your insight on how to approach a topic

that is really affecting me and my view of my fiancé. We are both. both in our late 20s and I'm very active and living an active lifestyle is important to me. It is really big part of who I am. I was an exercise science major in college and now I work out three to four times a week, including weightlifting, running, an intense group training. The problem is my partner does not work out. He might ride the peloton one to two times a week after I expressed to him my feelings about his inactivity and then falls off and doesn't work out at all. This is not so much a problem that I'm not physically attracted to him due to physique, but it feels like we have different values.

For example, I've always prided myself on being very hardworking and pushing through things even if they are hard. I fear my fiance does not have the same capacity to withstand doing hard things and gives up quite easily and does not work out because he is not naturally good at it. Another reason this really saddens me is because neither of my parents are particularly healthy

secondary to a combination of genetics and poor lifestyle choices. Because of this, I cannot do certain things either with my mom because of her health. For example, my mom is overweight and now has bad arthritis due to this and can't walk far. So I can't travel with my mom. So experiences that involve a lot of walking, playing sports, pickleball with her, going hiking, can't do that.

My fiancé is able to do all of these things with his parents, and I feel like he takes it for granted. Also, his parents were always active, hence why they can do these things at their age. My fiancé is fortunately healthy, but he doesn't realize if he doesn't take care of himself, it will not always be that way. He eats poorly, has a desk job, so sits during the day,

plays video games late into the night, etc. I fear he won't be able to keep up with me when we are older or be able to keep up with children. I find myself being resentful and saying really nasty things about him in my head,

like, you're so lazy, or you just want everything in life to be easy, which is obviously not good and makes me question our long-term compatibility. I don't have any empathy for him when he complains his back hurts or if he's stiff,

because all he does is sit all day. How do I address this without being hurt or putting him down? Is it worth trying to motivate him or is this who he is. Thanks for any insight and help. Best down bad crying at the gym, Betch. All right. What do you think? Yeah, this is, this is interesting because it seems like the fear is not about now. It's about like what it will turn into or what it could turn into if he's not willing to do hard things, which I get that fear when you have a life partner that doesn't seem to

handle hard situations well. It kind of feels like scary. Right. Well, I mean, she's calling this like hard situations like not pushing through a tough workout as a hard situation. I don't know if I would call that like a hard thing in isolation. Like if she's like, oh, when I have a bad day, he retreats and doesn't talk to me. Like to me, that's not being able to handle hard things. Maybe he doesn't value you working out as much as you do. I wouldn't say this, unless she's not saying this spills over into all aspects of life. She's really kind of just talking about it in terms of working out. And it feels like she's assigning a lot of like morality to working out.

Yes. Well, she's connecting it to that. So my question to her would be, are there bigger fears beyond health and working out? Like, is it really about not being able to push through? And are there other ways where this is showing us? up. Like, you know, if he doesn't want to go to work in the morning or he doesn't want to, like you said, she has a hard day and he can't handle talking to her about it or lean into difficult emotions. You're right. She's not saying anything about that. And right now,

and this is the way it is for a lot of people, he seems pretty healthy. He's not, I mean, his back hurts maybe a little bit. So maybe that's concerning where she's like, okay, you are noticing something of ramification of not working out, you're still not doing anything. But for him, he's probably like, I don't really feel like I need to right now. Like if the doctor says, your blood pressure is high or cholesterol's high or whatever, then maybe he would feel more motivated. But right now, like you said, she's assigning a morality to it. And he's just like, I just don't feel like it right now. And I don't really feel like I need to. Right. And this isn't something that I'm as passionate about as you are. Right. But I understand. I feel like this is you could

replace this with a lot of things and a lot of couples of like one person feels really strongly and values something really highly and the other person doesn't really seem to care about it as much. And I think that that's a very, I don't know if it working out in this way is like quite as common as just that feeling in a relationship. I think these issues tend to come from a place of fear of like what would what could this turn into. Like I'll see a lot of couples maybe with like alcohol or, you know, drug use or whatever where it's like, well, what if when we have kids, what are you going to do about it then? And it's kind of like, you know, what if we have kids? What are we going to do about it then? What's, how are you going to, you know, are you still

going to be getting drunk or doing that? And it's like, well, we're not there yet. So maybe we just, but the problem is they're engaged, right? So she's kind of like, I'm afraid to wait and see how it's going to turn out. Right. So yeah, I guess there's the one issue. of like the morality of it. Like does this make you this type of person? Or is it I'm afraid of how our lives will be affected by this behavior? Right. Here's the thing.

I'm afraid how our lives will be affected by this behavior feels like a lot more socially acceptable reason to be annoyed about this. Right. And I mean, I'll speak as someone who like works out a lot. Mike doesn't really do that a lot. And sometimes I'm like, all right. Like, sometimes I pull the card about like, you know, like I, you have to be healthy so that we like can live longer. And you're going to be like, you're not going to be, you're not going to feel good, blah, blah, blah.

But like the real thing that annoys me is like I'm putting in all this effort. And like, one, I want to feel validated that I'm like, they spend a lot of this time on this thing that's important. And if you did it too, it would make me feel that way. And also, like, I, you know, I want to look good for you and for society. And so it would be nice to feel like, you know, you, the other person in the relationship also has that desire. Right. Right. But those feel like less socially acceptable reasons than your back's going to, you know, you're not going to be able to walk around the park with our future kids.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I think you, you make a good point that there probably is this, like, this thing is important. to me, so important that I studied exercise science and I do this frequently. It's a big part of my identity. What makes me feel good about myself? And you don't care about it seemingly at all. And maybe there is a little bit of like, what does that mean that you think about this thing that,

about me? Because this thing is so important to me. Right. It's almost like, it reminds me a little bit of the person that wrote the book and the partner didn't even read the book. It's kind of like, this is so important to me. You're not even reading the book. Like, this is so important to me, you see no value in it to the point where you don't care at all about it. Right. And I think you could put this again on so many things. One person feels like really strongly about religion and the other person doesn't want to go to church or doesn't feel like as moved or interested in these things. And so I guess the question that I would have for you is someone who does couples therapy or relationship, which is like how important is it for couples to like have a some work out a similar amount or go to the you know care about religion a certain amount or care about you know being ambitious at work a certain amount like there's so many to me there's so many things where one where you could have this issue yes I really would not I don't think this is like a deal breaker for a couple because it could be okay now this it's this she's having working out and he doesn't

and then their lives can change and down the road, it could be different. Like she could stop working out because maybe she, whatever, her lifestyle changes or she hurts herself and then she takes up, you know,

knitting. And that's like she has a whole knitting club and creates a knitting group. And if he doesn't knit, does that mean that they can't be together? No, I think you made a really good point that this is more,

or could be in addition to maybe her, some valid fears, that she feels like she wants to be seen in some way that this is something that makes her feel good. And maybe she just needs to be able to express that to him and know that he, like you said, if Mike came to you and was like, I don't know, what would be the dream thing that he would say to you if he was like, I'm not working out, but. Right. But I love how much, you know, how much time and energy you put into like being healthy and wanting to look really great. And I notice and appreciate that.

Yes. So maybe if it was more like, I'm not going to do this, but you don't need me to do this in order for you to feel like this is valued by me. That I see, wow, you look amazing. Like, I see you on that treadmill, like, sweating. I really admire, like, your ability to kind of push through.

And, you know, if that's what it's about, whatever it is. Like, your dedication, like you wake up, even when you don't feel like it, you do it. And I, you know, I think that that's really an awesome quality. So maybe there is a little bit more to like she's looking for validation for this thing that's so important to her through his actions, which I think that is a big problem that happens. It's almost like passive validation. Yeah. I think that's true. And again, I think about that with like household chores or something like that. Like sometimes someone's doing a lot more of like the house stuff, like taking out the garbage or

whatever. And to me, it's like, I don't mind, especially if I have more time than Mike on a particular week that I'm, he's technically supposed to take out the garbage. It's like, I do it, or I'm washing the sheets or I'm doing whatever it is. It's not so much that I'm, like, it's about the inequality. It's about being noticed for the extra effort that I'm putting in. Yes. And to me, that goes so much so far and you can almost like get away with so much more if you're just appreciate, and like vice versa. Like, if he's doing more, like, I think to just, it's not so much that everything has to be even that that you're, that you're, that you're, fiance needs to be working out the same level as you. I think it's more like I feel seen and I feel

like appreciated and I feel that you're grateful for the things that I am doing. Yes. Because sometimes if someone's not, you feel like things have to be even and then no one needs to give that gratitude. You don't have to have the gratitude conversation. It's almost, it's like never going to be even. Yes. No, I totally agree. And it might be deeper in that maybe it's, you know, are there other things that he is doing that you feel you value? Are there things that you admire? I think there is this idea of like, I admire this about you.

I'm proud of you about this thing or I feel, you know, like you're, like you said, a morality thing. Like you're a good, it's a good quality of a good person that you are able to do X, Y, Z. So that might be a question for her to ask. Is like, are there other ways that she can see admirable qualities in him that maybe she's missing because she's hyper-focused on this way that she makes a behavior that she does to feel good about herself.

Right. Maybe he does something else that you're not noticing because you're fixated on this one thing. Like, does he handle situations well? Does he work hard at his job? Does he, you know, whatever other things that he's doing that you can admire that are not the same way that you're striving to be admired or the things that make you feel good about yourself. That's a really great point. I think that, yeah, what you just said is a great point in terms of like just like almost, it's almost like the love languages where like you think that everyone wants

to be loved the same way that you do. It's like you think that everyone wants to feel like pride. I think people assume that the things that they feel pride in about themselves or what other, what makes other people feel pride in themselves. Yeah. So, you know, like you're kind of like, how could someone not want to be admired for like their body and, and their hard work and, in, you know, taking care of themselves?

And maybe to him, it's like, how could someone not be, you know, want to be admired for how hard they're working at work or taking care of something around that? So I think that's a very interesting point where a lot of that miscommunication comes from. Yeah.

And this, I think this is a great opportunity from, for some really good, deep conversation, between the two of you, where you say, this is something that makes me feel really good about myself. What are things that you do that make you feel good about yourself? I want you to notice these things in me and I want to be able to notice the things in you that make you feel really proud of yourself. And maybe there are things that you're not even seeing. So I think this is a really

fun conversation even for any couple to have. It's almost like a chance to kind of brag on yourself a little bit and be like, these are the things that I really love about myself. Like, do you, you know, love them too? Yes. Like, do you notice them? Do you see them? Like, are these things that you value and it can pull out what sometimes happens is like a little bit of jealousy between partners, you know, like whatever, whatever that might be.

Yeah, that doesn't come easily. When you do it, it actually makes me feel badly about myself, which is just an honest conversation because that's not something that comes easily. And if you say like I do this other thing, but maybe he doesn't feel like you value that thing. So then he feels worse about himself. And then he's almost like stuck in a little rut around this thing. So I think this could be a great conversation for any couple for you to be like, here are the things that I love about me.

I'd love for you to notice them. Right. That would make me feel great and going back and forth both ways. I like that a lot. And then also I think there's like I always say, there's always an opposite positive quality for every negative quality. Like the good part of,

like kind of what you were saying in the beginning, if she's, you know, it is nice to be with someone who's not like, you always have to be on the, like if she wants, let's say she wanted to take a break from working out or she didn't,

wasn't on her. This doesn't sound like someone who's going to be like judging her intensely. Yes. And that kind of feels like nice and safe and she's probably not thinking about that side of it. But it's like someone who's maybe not like super into working out is probably not going to be like,

like watching to see if you've gained five pounds. Yes. Because they're so deeply into that. Yes. Totally. And that's why I don't think this is a deal breaker because life is going to throw you a million curve balls. And as long as you guys can continue to have this conversation of like,

these are the things I'm doing right now that make me feel really good about myself. And it would make me feel great if you notice them or like, how do you feel about that or do you enjoy that quality about me? and that could feel really nice. I think these are fun date night conversations. You go out and you're kind of like, it is nice to go on a date with your partner and kind of talk about the things that you love about each other,

the things that you notice each other doing well or that you admire. So yeah, yeah, good stuff. Let's do a betraceousist. Do you want to read this one? I will read this. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Huge fan of oversharing.

You guys are hands down my favorite podcast. I love it. And I always feel so rejuvenated after listening to you. I have a triggered for you related to concert tickets. So in June, my friend texted our group chat for a total asking if we wanted to go to a Suki Waterhouse concert in December on a Saturday night. None of us were really fans, but the tickets were affordable, $70. So we said yes. She bought the tickets and we memowed her. Fast forward to the fall and B-Has a new job. She's unable to get off work for the concert because the rest of us weren't really fans from the beginning. We tell her it's okay and she can sell the tickets. A few days go by and she Venmo's us each $70. Another friend texts and says,

thanks for the Venmo, glad you sold them. Goes, I made a profit on them. The friend responds, oh, amazing. I didn't even remember how much we paid. I applied. I kept the profit. I got 85 a ticket. Is it crazy that she kept the profit? I'm honestly more bewildered than triggered as it's just $15. It just feels so strange. to me that she thinks this is okay. We had all planned on going to the concert, essentially for her and aren't going because she had to bail. Why wouldn't she appreciate that and share the profit? It would be one thing if selling tickets was difficult and she had to do work that we didn't,

but it's very easy. I hope we get to hear what you think, underpaid. I like this ethical dilemma. Yeah. So I was thinking about it. I think if she had not Venmoed everyone for the original tickets. She not made them pay for the original tickets and was going to do it all at the end, but then wound up just like selling them and taking the profit, I think this would have been fine because I assume she would have taken the loss too. Right. To me, if you're going to, if you're going to take the loss, then you can take the profit as well. But to me, it doesn't seem like that's the case here, like because she had them pay in advance. And I assume if she sold them, let's say the opposite happened, where she lost money.

you know, there were too many tickets. She couldn't sell them. I assume she would make them, she would give them back less money. Right. Yes. Right. Yeah, I agree.

Although I can't imagine that, let's say she couldn't sell the tickets at all, that she would just eat all that money because it was her choice to buy. Like, I think her rationale in her mind is like, this was all me. I picked the concert. I asked you guys to go. So, like, if I made some money, that's my, money. But then to your point, if she lost the money, that would be her loss as well. And I highly doubt

that she would have just been like, oh, sucks. Couldn't sell the tickets. It sucks for me. Right. Right. Yeah. I'm just going to eat the price of the whole thing. I really doubt she would have done that. I agree. And I think that's what makes it scummy. Yeah. I could see why I exactly how she described it. Like, I'm not exactly triggered. I'm just bewildered about like what the thought processes here. That's how I think I would feel about it. Like, okay, it's $15, you know. Right. I'm not going to put up a fight. I'm not going to put up a fight about it. But it just, it's almost like it would have been the empty gesture of just saying, I can send you guys the $15 if you want, you know, let me know, would have been appreciated.

Like the idea of like just offering it back to them would have been nice. But it's, does sound like she was kind of like, I did the work, I resold the tickets, I bought them in the first place. So I'm going to keep, you know, what ends up being like $60, I guess in the end. Right. And again, like, I think that would have been fine if she would have, I think if she didn't, if they hadn't paid anything for the tickets and she had the four and then she was going to charge them right before they went, but she didn't, she just resold them and kept the money. I would think that would have been fine. Yeah. I just, I don't like that like, like, she only is keeping the profit.

I don't think she would have, I think she would have made them pay if they didn't do the other thing. And it was also, it was her decision to not want to go anymore. I think that also adds to it. If all the friends were like, oh, this was in June,

all this stuff came up for all of us, we can't go anymore. And then she has the tickets. And then she sold them and make the profit. I also would say, okay, good for her. She wanted to go to the concert. She couldn't go to the concert.

She made $60. I'd feel better about it. But the fact that it was her canceling, and she didn't give them the money, I think that's also annoying. Yeah, I do think my hunches, nine out of ten people, would be at least a little tweaked by this situation.

Yes. Like, if you're Venmoing 70, just Venmo 85, because that's what you got for the tickets, like send it on. And it would also be nice to kind of be like, as a gesture, I know you guys didn't really know this band.

I appreciate the effort that you made to like hold the day. and want to come with me. And so as a little token of affection for doing, you know, making these plans for me, I'm going to throw you the extra 15 bucks. Yay, not only did, you know, this workout, but everyone made a couple bucks

and that feels good for everyone. That would have been, it definitely would have been how I would have done it to kind of do a little bit of like, oh, sucks that I had to cancel, but at least everybody made $15. And I canceled on everyone. Yes, basically.

And again, you were only seeing, this was like someone I'm a fan of, not necessarily you. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that the person writing in is right. It would irritate me too. Would you almost not want to know if you were the person that they did this? Like, let's say she just gave them back their money and she had like made 60 bucks. I think if she almost didn't say anything, I would feel like fine about it. Like if I found out down the line, she actually sold it for more and didn't say anything.

Well, that scenario would work for me if I never found out. You never found out, I guess. I don't think that scenario would work well for me if I found out later because then it would be like now you're taking the profit and you're lying about it. Well, I guess it's not a lot. I mean, if no one said, like, I forgot how much we even paid for it. Right. Would she have said anything? I don't know.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't like. It'd be weird, I guess. It would be weird to find out later that, I mean, it could, yeah, no, there's no, there's no excuse. You're Venmoing. I agree. It's one thing.

Yes, they paid. They already paid, which I think makes it all, it makes it their ticket. I think if you already paid for the ticket, it's your ticket. Right. So you should get the profit. Yes. Yeah, you own the ticket because you paid for it if we want to look at it, like legal, in that legal fashion.

Yeah. And it also matters like almost, let's say she refunded the $70 to everybody just because, like, okay, I'm going to give your money back and then worried about reselling it. And then she ended up getting $85 back for each one. So instead of sending them each an extra 15, she was like, oh, I actually ended up getting 85. It still would have been nice to be like, hey, do you want your extra 15 bucks? And maybe everyone would have been like, no, don't worry about it.

You can keep it. But like she chose to type 70 into the Venmo slot instead of 85 when that's really what she got back. So yeah, I don't like this. I agree. The whole way she did it, not. If there had been slight variations in all different. parts of this, it all could have been better, but this way seems uncool. But I wouldn't say anything. I would let it go. If something happens like this again, then I think, you know, maybe it's,

you might want to mention it. But at this point, if this is like a one-off thing, you know, maybe she's trying to make herself feel better about all this by being like, oh, but I made $60. So like it was all for a good reason. Yeah, but she's the one who canceled. That's also, I don't know. I know. I do find this. Validated. I wish we had a validated stamp. Like a little noise. All right, let's do some intentions. Should we, this one's a voicemail. Should we roll the tape? Roll the tape. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I'm looking for an intention. My husband and I have been married for about eight and a half years.

and we've been going through infertility struggles since we were married. We do not have children. And we both come from a very small town. I'm having issues with finding myself having an extreme amount of social anxiety when I'm out in public. For example, this weekend we had a wedding with some friends of ours, and I wouldn't say they were super close friends, but just acquaintances from our small town. and I find myself in the social environment counting the people around me that have kids

and I instantly get the most amount of social anxiety thinking that people are looking at us, knowing our story, feeling sorry for us. It's always kind of been a struggle and it's gotten to be even worse to the point where I just avoid social interactions altogether. And this weekend it just hit me differently. And it's now three days after the wedding and I'm still having this feeling of inadequacy, I guess.

I'm just looking for an intention for when I'm in these situations, what can I tell myself to get a little bit out of my shell and realize that everyone probably isn't thinking about us and they all have their own lives going on? So that's, I guess, what I'm wondering if you can help. Thank you so much. Love listening to you. Bye-bye. I like this email, this voicemail a lot. I related to it for sure, especially this part which she wrote about like clocking how I watch everyone, like, who has kids and like how I do I do this all the time where I'm like, who has kids? How old are they?

How old are the kids? How old were they when they had them? It's like this thing, I guess, to like compare to yourself. Like, how much time do I have left? How far behind am I? Like, what is everyone doing? What is everyone thinking? like, are they looking at me, being like, I'm seven years younger than you and I have two kids.

Like, I don't, like, I think there's like a feeling of like wanting to place yourself in, and sometimes you do it to self-sooth. Like, oh, this person's like, only has one kid. I'm going to be okay. Right. Or whatever it is. So I thought this was a very relatable voice mail. And also, I think being, like, the holidays can be harder for people. We're going through stuff because I think that there's this feeling of like, I'm going to go home.

and I think this can be related to a lot of things. Like I'm single or, you know, I'm around all these couples. I'm around these things. And I think people are thinking about this about me and feeling bad for me. And I don't, I remember that being a fear that I had when I was single and just wanting to know, like, how to deal with that. So we'd love your take on that. Yeah, this, I really like this question for a lot of reasons. One is like what you said, that our brains are like little computers. And, And they like to gather information with the hopes that that information will soothe you. And sometimes it doesn't. And all the time it just like pulls you into one of those rabbit holes, you know,

where you need to like, and I'm back. Right. Like they have kids there too. Those nose and what about them? I think she must be 36. And she, you know, and you're just like, you know, trying to grab. She should be getting ready to have their second soon. It's like, oh, it's creepy.

Right. Yes, you're at this party and your computer is trying to gather all the data to determine basically, like, whether you're okay or not. And that's what your brain does. It gathers information from the world around you, whether it's like recycling information that's already there by ruminating or like looking around the room, gathering information to tell you whether or not you're okay. So I think what happens in this situation is she's having a moment of grief around her infertility. It's just being pulled out in this situation. And it's almost like the perfect storm because that grief of wanting to be a mom is colliding in that moment with this desire to fit in, which is such a human. And it's like these two very primal for some people, like cravings that are colliding in that moment.

Like I want to be a mom and I'm not. And I want to be accepted into this group and feel like I fit in into this group. And right now I'm trying to determine how I fit into this group. And both of those things coming up in one literal moment feels really overwhelming. So I think that's a big part of what's happening. and the other, this idea of like being pitied by other people. Like it's a really interesting concept because people can go both ways. There are some people that really like or try to pull out, like want other people to feel sorry for them.

Like want to highlight their struggles so they feel like, I'm really down about this, but like this is valid. Like a lot of people really feel like this is a big deal. like it's okay that I feel this way. Then, yeah, I feel seen in this moment. And then there are other people that like, that's the worst thing that they could experience is someone looking at them and feeling bad for them. And it sounds like-

Which is psychologically healthier. Yeah, I mean, I, no, I don't think it's bad. I think it's just the issue with getting upset when people feel bad for you, is it almost, it's like you're writing a narrative that because they feel bad for you about this thing that's obvious, right? There are certain things. Everyone has insecurities. Like everyone feels like less than or not as good at someone at something or behind, like you said, but there are certain ones that are like very visible, like whether or not you have kids, whether or not you're married.

Another one that people struggle with a lot that's very visible. It's like weight. I gained weight, my body. So there's all these insecurities that are like under the surface that everyone has. Like everyone at this wet has an insecurity about something. Right. But there are these ones that are like more visible that then somebody might then feel like, oh, you know, I feel so bad for them.

I know they've been married for eight years and they're probably really struggling to get pregnant and maybe they feel uncomfortable because most people in here have kids and like the idea that someone feels that way about them is what's really bugging her. But it's almost like that doesn't change the reality of your situation, which is that you're going to have moments of feeling grief about this thing. And the pity of someone else just kind of brings it to top of mind you know, it just like pulls it out and lays it on the table. Right. And it's not even necessarily pity that she's seeing.

It's like pity that like. She's imagining. She's, yeah. Is that what you're going to say? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like, it's not like anyone's saying anything.

She's just like imagining that they feel pity for her. But I guess what I wanted to talk to you about is like, well, what if, so when I was thinking about the intention for her, what she asked for was an intention like, how do I remind myself that they're probably not even really thinking about me? And they're probably not even thinking about like whether or not I have kids. Right. And yeah, we could focus on that. And we could, you know, which is true.

It's probably true that they're not thinking about you and they're not really feeling bad for you. And they're not like it's not taking up certainly a large amount of space in their mind. It might be taking up a small amount of space in their mind. But I don't think it's taking up a large amount of space in their mind. but I almost felt like the more worthwhile intention was to just kind of be like, okay. And so what if they're having a thought of like, oh, I feel so bad for them. Like it's taking them such a long time to have a baby. Right.

Yeah. I've done that too where I'm like, all right, let's imagine that that's the case. And maybe it is for some, I'm sure for some people, someone at the wedding is right. Sure. Right. Right. Right. Like you kind of like you said, like so? Yeah. I mean, so you're not so like so some people don't think your life is perfect. Yes. Like. Yes. Yes. So people know that you have problems. Yes. Okay. Yes. Exactly. It's really I think more about her and I hope that she has, you know, done the grieving about this and like felt like coming back full circle, like felt her feelings on it, been with someone who's holding space for her. around this, like, really made time to be like, this is going to come in waves. It's been eight-ish years, you know, that she's been struggling with this.

So I'm sure you've experienced in those eight years, hundreds or thousands of moments of like, this feels really sad. I feel really, you know, I feel this longing and there's nothing I can do about it. And those moments are going to happen. And this moment is another moment just like any of the moment. those where but somehow in this context because it feel like you have this basis of comparison it makes you feel inferior or like if someone feels bad for you it feels like they think you're worse off than that right or you are like it's valid maybe it's validating that you are behind

right or that you are you know what I mean that everyone is the real fear which is like everyone's doing great but me everyone's life is thriving but I'm my life is falling apart right or this person's worst nightmare would be to be me in this situation. I'm living someone's worst nightmare, yes. Yeah. So like I do validate that that's like the fear of having someone pity you. But it's like I'm sure there's something that's going on in their life that's just maybe not as visible that you might have that same reaction around. But that's just more of like a share.

You know, it's almost like I think about if, you know, you don't have a great relationship. relationship with a parent or you have lost a parent or, you know, and it was like everyone had, everyone's parents were always around all the time. You know, like they were at Halloween. They're posting pictures of you and your parents. And at, you know, they were posting their parents' school photos on Instagram and everywhere you go, people just bring their parents. You might be like, whoa, like I feel so, I really feel so bad for this girl. She lost her dad or she doesn't have a good relationship with her dad or whatever it is. Like you're going to, these moments of grief are going to be pulled out.

I think around this kid's issue, they're just pulled out so often because there's so many instances where people are talking about it or their kids are around or whatever. But the grief itself is whatever the grief is that you experience on your own when you're not in these comparative scenarios with other people. So I think if she can recognize that like it just feels like the pity in this situation is like feel so terrible when really if you knew some intimate detail of their life, you'd probably feel pity for them as well. You just maybe don't know because it's not like so apparent.

You know, maybe this person doesn't, you know, speak to their sister or they don't, you know, they have a psoriasis all over their body or they have a health condition that you don't know like totally and you know i mean i think that also helps i mean we talk about gratitude a lot or like gratitude journals or gratitude things like i do you know when i when i fear that someone is feeling sorry for me i also think of all the things that people would on the flip side i try to think of all the things people would envy or like you know would that other people struggle with that i don't struggle with. Totally. And I thought about this actually in the context of having kids where I'm like, I forget where I was somewhere recently and everyone was talking about like all the places they

had traveled and they were about to go to Japan and Thailand and they had been to Brazil and Peru and just like all these amazing places and all these cities in Europe and like I've been like nowhere. Like not nowhere, but like I'm not well-traught. And I had this moment of like, oh my gosh, like I'm getting older. Like, what if I die? And I never get to see the world, you know? Like it was almost this little moment of like having a pity party for myself about like this thing, which seems like it's a very first world problem.

Like I haven't gotten to see the world. But it is sort of this like craving for an experience that I would like to have on this earth. You know? Right. That is also visible other people's, you know, being able to do that. Right. Especially if you're posting and you're talking about it and you're, so, you know, it's almost like this moment of like, yeah, when you have kids, you have your kids and

that's what's around on the daily basis, but you also don't have a lot of things or you have a lot of opportunities to have many other life experiences that people with kids don't get to have. Right. One, because of finances, like, you know, that's just the reality. So, I mean, I don't know how it feels to you to make that comparison, but I do think there is this feeling of like, if you really sat down and talked with anyone about like what they're longing for in their life that they may not ever get to have, you're going to feel sad for them if you're a caring person. You know, you're going to have a moment of like, wow, yeah, that, you know, that's a tough spot to long for that thing that you're never going to have. You know, and it could happen in a million different ways like we talked about a career.

You know, you're around people that have like these amazing careers. And if, you know, if you don't have it by the time you're in your late 30s or 40s, like you may not ever get to experience what it feels like to, you know, have a sense of esteem through your career. But you're just not thinking about all that. So yeah, I really do get it. I'm sure you get it too. And it's not an easy situation to be in because it's like such a big part of people's daily lives and conversation, I'm sure, too. Yeah. And I think your world is just affected by who you're around.

Like if she was around, she says they're from a small town. Like if she was from around a bunch of like, you know, New York City 40-year-olds who have no kids, which I know many of them. I don't think she would feel that way. If you were around a bunch of people who never left their hometown, you might not feel like as bad about not having traveled as you might around speaking to people who would travel every three times a year or whatever it is. Totally. And that's a perfect example because I literally wasn't thinking about it.

And then I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, whoa, like this is something I may not ever get to experience. you know, like these different cultures and seeing parts of the world. And if people's kids weren't in your face all day, it might be easier to, you know, to tolerate that. So I think realizing that you're not the only one that has these moments of like a feeling of grief or longing or loss or insecurity or inferiority, I think is what a lot of that comes up, that. that everyone in that room has experienced that in one way or another, and you're not alone in that. And seeing it as like, okay, it's just coming up right now. It really has nothing to do with these other people.

And I'm sure it's come up for you hundreds or thousands of times before. It's another one of these moments of grief that's coming up and you can handle it like any other moment of grief as opposed to doing the thing where you're like, you know, well, they're probably not even thinking about it, which they probably aren't. So I will say that. They probably aren't. Or if they are, it's like a passing thought that lasts five seconds. Right.

Yeah. No one's that nice that they'd be thinking about it all night. Exactly. It's so true, right? It's like, and you probably have that same feeling about any of them if you really knew what was going on. I'm constantly thinking about how not well-traveled you are, actually. It's hard to sleep at night. Just feeling so sorry for you.

I'm just getting. Well, next time you go on vacation. You can have the thought of Naomi may never experience this. And I really feel for her. I think you will. But anyway. Don't. I don't want you pitying me.

Back to the beginning. All right. So the intention that I wrote for her was, this is not about them. It's about me. relax and allow this reminder of our grief to come and pass. Every person in this room has moments just like this. So she had, and I write hour because she has her partner with her in it,

which might help her feel a little bit better. This is not something she's doing alone. So it's not really about them. It's just a trigger that's pulling it out. So it's just another one, just like you have when you're lying in bed. at night, just when you get a negative pregnancy test, just like any of these other triggers, it's just a moment that's being pulled out because your computer, aka your mind, is crunching the data in that moment, which is making you feel like you're worse off than those people in

that room. I like that one, though. Yeah. I like that in my back pocket. Let's do some triggers. Have some fun, right? Let's do it. fun.

Do you want to read our first one? Yeah, I'll read. Hey, Jordana and Naomi, love you guys so much. Your voices bring me so much joy on my Tuesday commute to work. I have a triggered situation I would like to share. My friend gave birth to her first baby last month and a week later sent out a sign-up sheet to cook for her and her husband to the group text. She sent out the link and a picture of her husband eating and did not say anything else.

The link was also sent to other friends in different circles. All of us live about an hour away from her and work full time. We have all been very loving and supportive to her via tax. I've told her I'm around to help whenever needed and was planning to cook for her before she sent the link, although she did not know this. It made me feel so weird that she sent this out like it was an expected duty of us. Their parents are retired and have been very involved with helping them. She hasn't said she's struggling to cook, that they're low on food or anything. As a side note, the group text is comprised of ladies with no kids.

We've generally been drifting apart from each other, although me and one other girl are still close friends with the new mom. Maybe I'm being mean, but I just feel like it was a little nervy and hit me the wrong way. Let me know if I have a right to be a little triggered best. I was going to cook for you anyways. I can agree this is kind of triggering and pretty entitled. To send a link with no note or context, I think that's just like rude. it'd be one thing to say, okay, let's say she really like did, let's say she kind of had this expectation, maybe her other friends with kids all do this for each other and this is kind of a thing that she thinks

just happens like for everyone. I think to set mine, send out the link and then be like, hey guys, like I've done my friends, my other friends and I have done this thing. Like it would be so helpful. Like I don't know if you guys were thinking about it. If you are, it's amazing. Like it would be so amazing to I just want to make sure if you are going to do it, that it's done like in this organized way so that there's not a million people like bringing redundant stuff, whatever it is to send out the link and just with no context or gratitude is crazy to me. Yeah, I think again, my first thought was maybe a bunch of them had been asking her, I want to bring something over. I want to make something for you guys so you can take something off your plate. And I could

see doing this if like five people had reached out and said, we want to cook something for you. Like we're going to bring something over a Wednesday night. But I agree. Then she would have to write, like, hey, I know a lot of you have been reaching out asking me, like, if you can cook. I thought this would be an easier way to organize. I really appreciate your help. Maybe if you're still interested, you can sign up. But the idea of sending it out with no note, the only way that I would even see this as being acceptable is if she had gotten a bunch of people that were offering the same thing. I mean, that's the idea of a registry, right? Like, a lot of people want to buy me a gift. Here's how we're going to organize the gift giving. Yes. Then say that. I think you need to,

if you're going to send that link, you need to say something about the fact that a lot of people have been asking, absolutely no need to sign up. Like, this is not like, just do it. Like, it's like something that's just like, this is a school project and we're all going to be doing our part. of course is crazy and would make me not want to make her anything also totally and the other thing that it makes it even more triggering which i'm glad she included in the context is that they live an hour away that's oh that's really yeah i didn't even realize that yeah that's intense this would be like slightly triggering if they lived like 10 or 15 minutes away but an hour away seems really far to like go and drop off food.

Especially if they're all working full time. And then the other piece is like she has parents that are helping. Like I could almost see if this was a woman whose husband was like in the military and had no parents and like she was, you know, single mom or had really very little help. Maybe I could see this. And she's so overwhelmed that she just like quickly shot out. the sign up sheet. I don't, that's the only context in which I think this would fly.

Still say thank you. Yes. That's crazy. And no pressure or whatever. Yeah. Also, like I've never brought any of my friends who have had kids any kind of meal. Have you done that? No.

Have you ever received a meal? Not from like not my mother-in-law or, you know, no. No, none of my friends have like brought over food. I mean, maybe it's a thing they do. Here's enough. I could say maybe if like, let's say someone's like, we want to come meet the baby on Wednesday night will bring over food. Right. And you could say, okay, not even really, though.

Not even really. No. Yeah. I don't think this. Just to send it like that's like your job. I think it just feels so impersonal and like it feels. Totally. And if, yeah, yeah, this is, I don't, I don't get it. I mean, maybe some, maybe this is a thing that she did. If this is a thing, if you guys are out there listening and this is a thing, like a meal train for new moms, right? I guess that's like what it is. Yeah, then that's the link. I mean, she sent the screenshot with the link. It wasn't adding much. So I didn't include it, but it just said meal train. Right. Sign up. Meal train for a new mom. If this is a thing that maybe she had done with people and it's like an experience. thing that, you know, she had done for others. Maybe that's just like a cultural difference.

Um, so maybe we're missing the mark on this, but I mean, I agree some note of like. Right. And it's especially because it's in a text. It's not like, um, oh, I'm inviting like, I'm sending out an invitation to like the baby's post birth baby shower. And here's a link at the bottom to. If you'd like to. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no pressure. No, if you, if you, A lot of people have been reaching out. I won't, yeah. Rude. No context.

This is rude. All right. She would not be getting a casserole from me. All right. I'm going to give this like a six. Yeah. I mean, because it's not personal,

but she probably does feel like, oh, now I feel pressured. Like everyone else is signing up and I don't. It makes her feel bad about herself. I would feel pressured if she even said totally no pressure. but here's the link if you guys want to send it. I would almost feel more pressure that way.

Now I'm like, I'm just going to pretend I didn't see it or something. Can you follow up and send us? You can black out the names like how many people actually did sign up for this? Is everyone signing up to drive an hour each way in the middle of the week to bring food? I door dash them some, I don't know, pizza or something. I door dash them a pizza. That would be my. contribution.

That's not a bad idea. Yeah, I'll give it a five. Yeah, I agree. This is triggering, but just, you know, you don't have to participate. You can bring a baby gift when you go see the baby. The length of time this would require to bring over food seems. And again, this wasn't something that either of us, I think, are familiar with. So if you're, if we're totally, this is totally a cultural thing or a neighborhood thing that's very common.

And we're off. Again, I still think the way she said it is weird, but let us know. Yeah. All right. Let's do another one. I'll read it. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, long time, first time, thank you for all you do. I was inspired by a listener's betchesist about paying for her boyfriend's family vacation

and decided to write in my own triggered scenario to get your thoughts. For context, I'm 25 and my boyfriend and his college friends. Two other couples are all 28. For the past year, it has come up multiple times that this group should plan a vacation together. However, we can never come to a consensus about cost or destination. As I'm one of the more frugal of the group, I have a lower threshold for what I would like to spend on this trip. A few months ago, one of his friends found a trip at an all-inclusive that would have cost $3,000 per couple prior to flights and any other added expenses.

I expressed that this was more than I'd like to spend, and for a while, the conversation was dropped. Recently, my boyfriend learned from one of the other couples, let's call them Fred and Ethel, that during a visit with the third couple, the third couple had told Fred and Ethel that they had, I had Googled my salary in my state, and AI estimated that I make $100,000 a year. Based on this number, they further blamed me for all of us not going on the all-inclusive, claiming that I could clearly afford it. Fred and Ethel said they dismissed this and told the third couple that this wasn't an accurate way to figure out how much money someone makes. In actuality, I make significantly below $100,000.

But even if I did, I would still think the sum they wanted to spend. It was too much for a group trip with friends who I only have through my boyfriend. My boyfriend's friends have no idea whether I have student loans or other debt, yet they claimed I was cheap for not being ready to spend this money. To add to this, it seems strangely invasive to try and use Google to find out what my income is. So my boyfriend's friends tried to use my AI estimated salary to prove I can afford an expensive group vacation. How triggered can I be? Thanks for all you ladies do. A not rich betch.

This is triggering. Very triggering. I mean, even all of it's triggering. Just making that decision for someone else on how they should spend their money. Right. Even if she made like a million dollars a year. Maybe she just doesn't think this is worth the cost. Yes, which I guess is offensive maybe to them, right?

If that were the case, if she made a million dollars a year, then they would be like, you don't think it's worth it for us to spend this time together. But I think you don't really want to go. Yes. Yes. So I could see that side, but it's also, she's not, doesn't make a million dollars a year. and even if she did make $100,000 a year, which she doesn't even, like she said, you don't know if she has college loans, you don't know if she's helping her parents out, you don't know, you have no idea, like what her financial situation is. And she's three years younger than them too. So like you would assume she's making less than them just by nature of being younger, right, two or three years ahead of college.

Right. And the other piece of this is that she, I get it. She doesn't have to go if she doesn't, think she can afford to go. But then she has to be okay with them going without her. So like there's two other couples. Like they can just go. And that's the other part I guess that I mean like I would almost want more information on. Was she like we don't want to go and therefore like we should find a different place? Or was she like I can't afford to go and like you guys go. This trip I think is a little too expensive for me. So I think I'm out. But you guys go. The only way I can see this being annoying is if less triggering would be if she said no to the trip and then she said like we need to find somewhere cheaper and didn't give them the option to go without her right still not okay and again

this was done behind her back so i'm giving her like so it's not like it was said to her face it could have just been like a little like mean spirited joking among friends which i wouldn't put past myself again right no i do i can see this happening i also have to put a little bit of blame on the couple that repeated the story. That's what I'm saying. This was meant to be behind her back. Yeah. I don't think it was necessary that they repeat this because now it's just causing like

bad feelings. And I could see this happening like where your couple sit around. They're like, I don't understand why they can't make it happen. I think she probably makes around this amount of money. Let's see what she makes. Right. Yeah. And look it up.

And like I don't think the fact that they did it is the worst thing. I do think the fact that it got back to her that they did it and that they're angry about it is like really. I could see why I totally see why she's triggered by this. But I think there is what might be happening, what it sounds like is happening, is that they're trying to plan this trip and maybe she keeps saying no that everything's, because they said we can't agree on destination and costs. So if she's the frugal one and she keeps saying no, I could see it being annoying on the other two couples part that it's like,

you kind of keep saying no, what I think would be nice of her, she's like, hey, I can't afford that, but hey, I found this other place. Maybe we can do this.

Like giving a suggestion, if she hasn't already, that is within her budget, that maybe looks nice and enjoyable and saying, maybe we can try this place. What I could see being annoying is you say no and then offer no alternatives. Right. So they're like, oh, now we can't do this trip because she doesn't, she says she can't afford it.

And then like now we have to go like present her another plan. Yes. They have to keep doing the research to try to find the trip that fits in with her budget. And they're just, they might be happy enough to go alone, but they want them to feel included. Right. Or they might be like she doesn't like us. She just doesn't, she just says, keep saying no. She maybe, maybe, and I think that's maybe why they Googled the salary.

It's like maybe that's why maybe she doesn't really want to go and she's kind of just using this expensive thing as like a reason for that. And again, she says they're all the same age. They're all friends from college. So maybe she doesn't feel like this is her number one trip or that she gets along super well with the rest of the group. And if they're kind of talking shit, I would. I would say that there's,

that's an accuracy to that. Right. This is, this does seem to be the theme around these, like, I am spending my resources, whether it's vacation time or money or whatever, for a trip.

And I think what's causing these interpersonal issues around these types of things is like, it is kind of a communication of, is that, are these people worth, is this gathering of people worth my resources? And the people on the other side are picking up like kind of passively or subconsciously on the vibe that when you say no to the trip, what you're saying no to is like your company. Right.

And this type of trip is not worth my resources that I'm setting aside for my vacation time. Yeah. And that's kind of like the truth of what the situation is. And so like that in that case, I think she can. say to the boyfriend. He's a few years older than her, probably making a little more money. And I think this is sort of how you need to do it in these scenarios. This is the amount of money that I can allocate towards a trip with your friends. You know, happy to go. I like your friend. Maybe this would have worked a little better before this AI thing. Love your friends.

Would be happy to go. I have $800 to put towards this trip. I'm happy to go. If we can make it work based on that. Maybe you want to subsidize a little bit of it. Or maybe you don't think it's worth that. We don't really need to go. You can go without me, whatever it is. This is the amount that I can do. Right. Can do. And so when you talk to your friends, because you're going to be the ones talking, you're talking, facilitating this trip because they're your friends. Just keep that in mind for me. Yes. Yeah. And I, I agree. I think it is really interesting though, because I think a lot of listeners out there probably have this in one form or another of like, I have a travel budget and like it is, does, it's almost like your bridal party, you know, it's like a ranking of the important

people in your life and how much you're willing to, like who you're picking to spend your budget on. Yeah, I mean, that's why it's like, it's a little awkward. I had a friend who did this with moving in with her boyfriend because she made a lot less money than him. And she said, they're looking for an apartment. And she said, this is the amount that I can spend on an apartment every month. We can either do twice that. And you can, you know, or if you want to live in a nicer apartment, we can make up the difference. We can make the difference up.

And so that's like putting it, you know what I mean? You're not saying we have to live like this. But we're just saying that this, you just have to say, this is what I can afford. This is how much I'm willing to pay. And again, they can afford willing to pay. Right. Same thing. Yes.

Like that she can. presented as. Yes, yes. I agree. I think a nice gesture, if she is interested in maintaining this friend group and getting along well with them, would be for her to make a little bit of effort, perhaps if she has said no a few times, which we're assuming. I don't know if she said no a few times, but if she has said no a few times to pick her number and then see if she can do a little bit of the legwork in finding a place that would fit with her budget, which would show an effort of, like, I do want to hang with you guys. I do want to do this trip.

These are some options that would work for me. And that would at least show that she's still interested. I have been in this situation where it's like there's someone who just keeps like X-Naying everything and that does get annoying. I agree. And I'd let it go. I don't think that other couple should have told you. They're kind of stirring the pot.

They shouldn't have told you that. That was not for your ears. But yeah, triggering that you. Yeah. Seeing that you did hear it, that they Googled your salary to make a judgment on whether or not you were bullshitting about being able to afford this trip triggering. I give that a six. I would agree. Six and a half even. Yeah. Because they were clearly, they, they've clear, that wasn't just them randomly saying that that was clearly involved in a conversation that was talking shit about you. Yeah. I actually, I'm going to bump it up to a seven because you have to, you can almost,

speaking of not like using your imagination to get ahead of your. but you can almost imagine that there was a lengthy conversation about how annoying it was that you were stopping them from doing this trip. Yes. Yeah. I'll pump it up to a seven actually because of that. All right. Well, we did it.

We did it. Keep the updates coming. We'd love to hear what's going on with this. I want to know how many people brought meals on the meal train. Yes. Very curious about that. But yeah. Mealtrain culture.

update us on meal train culture yes yes for sure all right that's our time great work today oversharing is produced by rebecca steinberg editing by will maxwell guest booking by alley freedlinder be sure to follow us on instagram and everything's fine and send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363 6294 betches