Oversharing - How Much Should I Internalize Criticism?

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Dr. Naomi tells Jordana about her new personal experiment with practicing something she dislikes, and learning how to tolerate irritations. Our Overshare comes from a hairstylist spiraling over damaging a client’s hair. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener who feels guilty for ditching a confused fellow passenger between connecting flights. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for a Betch who feels hurt that her friend’s wedding was scheduled on her baby’s 1st birthday. And we’re feeling triggered by therapy patients who repeatedly cancel last minute, and strangers who touch our babies without permission and give unsolicited parenting advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your position or a mental health professional. Hello, welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going?

Happy October. Yeah, happy October. All's fun. I had, it's, uh, it's, uh, It's funny because I'm doing this exercise with my group and with myself. So whenever I do stuff with my group or my groups, I like to do it myself so I can kind of experience what they're experiencing with them. So practice what you preach.

Exactly. So we're doing this exercise on like noticing your preferences and just like going through your life kind of noticing, oh, like I don't prefer this, you know, flavor of Gatorade. like I prefer this flavor and kind of what goes through your mind starting on like the lowest level like if something's triggering that's like you know whatever that level is this is like a one so we start with the one to kind of practice so I so I'm doing this a little bit but I start you know I tend when I exercise I tend to like to do things like yoga and Pilates and like these kind of you know, more like low impact activities.

And ever since I was a kid, I hate running. Same. Yeah, same. I knew that you didn't. Not a running family. Running is like torture. But for the last like few weeks slash probably even months-ish, I've been trying to run like when I do my workout, like I'll start by just running a mile.

Okay. One mile. And when I first started off, I was like, like, my kids make fun of me. Like I have like the tiniest little jog. Like a suburban mom walk job. Okay. It's like a cross between like a speedwalk and a jog. Yeah.

So I was at like probably like 12 and a half minute mile in the beginning. So I'm like running like multiple times a week, trying to get faster and faster. and five, like my goal was to get below a 10 minute mile, which I haven't done yet. And this has been like many weeks. So I finally, I got to like 10 minutes and like 15 seconds. And I felt like I was sprinting. Like I felt like I were going as fast as you possibly could. Giving all I had.

And I was like so proud of myself. And I was like, oh, so close. This is great. I'm almost there. like doing the whole like breathing into the discomfort, like dropping my shoulders, relaxing where I can, like trying to do all the, this is not my preference. My preference is to like have like peaceful music and be on a mat in the dark room and doing yoga. So I'm going through this process. I'm like working on myself. Is there so you're running because you're trying to do things that aren't your preference? Yes. That's specifically why. Okay. That and I think it's also probably. I will say it's really built up my like cardiovascular strength in general. I think it's good for you. But yeah,

it started off as like, I hate this, so I'm going to do it. To try to like watch my mind do its little tricks as I do something that I really don't like. So I'm doing this like really actually proud of myself that I'm working. Like I've shaved like two minutes off of my mile. And so, you know, Maddie's in sixth grade and they're just starting to do the mile in school. So she's like, oh, I did the mile today.

I'm like, oh, wow, that's awesome. And she never runs. And she's like, I got like nine minutes and ten seconds. Oh, wow, Byrne. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. Here I am working so hard. And her legs are so much shorter than yours. Doing all these mental techniques to like,

work my way through my discomfort, and she's just like popping up and beat my goal. First time. First shot out of the box. But I will say, the other reason I bring it up is it's interesting is that they're running in a big group. And she has like a good friend of hers that is in her gym class that they have like a little healthy competition. Okay. So I think that had she not been like chasing.

saying this person, she might not have been able to do it. So it was interesting on the whatever helps you sleep at night. Yeah. So anyway, I just found it so interesting that here I am like working my mental tricks and like watching my mind and I'm feeling so proud of myself. And she's like 11 popping up with like, oh yeah, just run a nine minute mile. Right. With much shorter legs.

I don't get how that's totally. Well, she's also very light. So like I guess she's just not carrying around as much weight as she's bouncing through the air. Yeah. So are you going to now? So are you going to continue running? Yeah, I'm going to continue. My goal is under 10.

I haven't gotten to my goal yet. What happens once you hit the goal is my question. It's an existential question. Yeah. I think what I would like to do is to keep doing it until that becomes like comfortable. Is then, are you going to create a goal that's lower than that? I don't think so. I mean, again, like, running's not my thing.

This was more of, like, a mental and physical challenge for myself to do something that I really, like, it's just, I think it started off where one day I was like, I wanted to go to yoga, but there was no class at the time that I wanted to go. And then I'm like, it's annoying. I wish that, why don't they? They should have classes at this time. Like, what if people that have this life, all that whole mental. internal dialogue. And I was like, you know what? You can still work out.

Might not be your preferred workout. Right. You could still do something. So just get up and do it, even if it's not like your most comfy place. Well, I guess my question then is, is it like, is the goal generally to, like, should it be to do things that you don't like?

Or should it be to like live the life that you want to live? And like, do the things. that bring you joy and not just do the other things because like you feel like you should. Or is it the idea that you might actually like it if you gave it a try? Like I guess I'm trying to to figure out what's the higher. What do you really get out of this? Right. So the reason why I did this, particularly like I said, is because in my groups, I'm working

on this concept of like watching how you handle things that are uncomfortable and kind of being able. So for those of you, obviously you're not my group. If you want to join my group, let me know. There's space. Naomi Bernstein.com. Naomi Bernstein.com. Yeah. Or Naomi Bernstein's psych at gmail.com. You could email me directly.

But what we're doing is we're starting with like the low hanging fruit of discomfort. So even something as simple as like, I wanted to put a banana in my cereal and the banana is like slightly too overripe. Okay. And now are you like, annoyed, why do these, I'm going to Google like a banana container that can preserve my bananas and like, how do I, you know, like, are you going to go down, are you just going to be like,

all right, I can handle that the flavor of my banana is not exactly the way I want it. And then the idea is that you start to handle like once you become, it's more about becoming conscious of like, what's my internal dialogue when I'm uncomfortable? And then recognizing that you're trying to change something that's not within your capacity to change and saying, okay, I can handle this. Right. And then you start little and then you work your way up to whatever we have in our triggered scenarios or things that are like a lot more triggering. So it's more like you're voluntarily becoming uncomfortable so that when you don't have a choice, you kind of like know what to do. Yes. Yes. Yes. You're like pushing or I mean, the running thing, that's not what I'm doing with

my group. My groups don't have to run a mile. that's not part of it. Don't worry. If you were thinking of signing up and that was a deterrent. No, that is not part of what my group. My group is starting with like the little things. And like I do do a plank challenge with my group

where they have to do like a one minute plank every day for 30 days and watch their like minds do the thing. We're like, this is stupid. Why do I have to do this? I'm not strong enough. Like I'm never going to be able to. You watch your mind do that thing. and then you become conscious, you breathe, you pause,

you relax where you can, right? A lot of times, like when you're running, and this is the other thing that I like about running, because it's so uncomfortable, same thing with yoga or anything that you do. Sometimes you're so uncomfortable that your whole body just, like, tense is up, and everything's tense that doesn't need to be tense.

Where when I'm running, sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, this is just really uncomfortable. I think I need to stop, and then I just say, relax, I'll drop my shoulders, is like notice the areas where I'm holding tension that I don't need to hold tension and you get kind of a second wind when you do that.

Which that to me is a really cool experience when you're like about to give up and you use the power of your mind to get you to a different physical space and then all of a sudden you're like, oh wait, I was kind of making that harder than it had to be. Right. But yeah, that's the idea.

To become more conscious of all these little things that you don't tolerate well, and then you just become a more resilient person as you move through, like, okay, whatever this thing or even like with relationship issues, you can do this a lot. Like my partner's doing this thing that annoys me, and then you start to like almost look for evidence

that they're doing that thing that annoys you. And it's like, yeah, they're doing that thing. Like just you can handle it. Yeah. I guess when I think about that, my pushback to it or my questioning of it is like at what point though, like how do you know when you should just like accept the thing

versus like maybe I should like make an action so I'm less uncomfortable? Like maybe I should ask them to turn the air down or up or whatever it is. Right. I should like like what's the where do you, where's the line between, you know, I'm just like a chill unbothered. person and like, oh, I could just fix this problem and be more comfortable with actionable, actionable things. Totally. So if you can fix it, fix it. But this challenge is like a specific challenge where like I could fix it, but I could fix it. And if it's easy, fix it, fix it. But also,

what does it feel like if I don't fix it? And how can I tolerate that? Because there are going to be many things that you can't fix. So this is more like a boot camp, right? Like in real life, you're not going to have to, like, I don't know, like, do 25 burpees at any given moment, you know, like that's not part of life. Like, I could choose not to do your burpees. Right. You do them because you're challenging your body and you think there's going to be some

growth or some change there. So this is more of an exercise in strengthening your mindset. Instead of strengthening your body, you're like strengthening your mindset to be able to say, this isn't ideal, this isn't maximized, this isn't comfortable, but I can handle it. Okay. And then in the real, it's more of like a training program for getting to the point where, and again, we always kind of end up here in some way. But like, then you go through the steps of like, okay, I lose someone or someone passes away.

And like, not to say that you're not going to feel that. You're going to feel that deeply, but you're not going to like fall to pieces. and be unable to function. So this is more like a training program to get you to the point where like if you lost your job, if you got broken up with, if you had to break up with someone,

if you got a divorce, if you lost a family member that you're like training yourself to be able to handle difficult things instead of going through life. Like if this thing ever happens, I'm done. Like I will not,

like you hear people all the time. Like I will not be able to handle that. I could not handle that. You hear people saying that, but like you can't because you do when you have to. So in that moment where you want to stop running on the micro level, what do you tell your mind? Well, I just watch my mind. You don't even tell it anything. No.

I mean, well, the first step I do is I watch my mind and I say like, what am I thinking? What am I feeling? Or I watch my body and my mind. Okay. What I feel a lot when I'm running for any of you out there that run and find a lot, uncomfortable is like I almost feel like an like an indigestion feeling right before I'm like ready to be like this is uncomfortable. It's like a little burning in my throat. If you guys are running, I don't know if it's just me, but then I'm kind of like, okay, it's just like a little burning

in my throat. But somehow my mind associates that with like probably my sixth grade self that was like, okay, I felt this. And then like I ended up feeling like a cramp in my side. And then And then I ended up having to stop and walk. And then, you know, Miss M yelled at me from across the field and told me to stop walking. It embarrassed me in front of like whatever happens in your life where you like notice that little sensation. And then you're like, oh, that's not tolerable. I don't like that.

So you just notice what, like what sensation is happening that's making me want to stop running. And then you can just kind of be like, okay, I can handle that. It's like a little burning sensation in my throat. It's not the biggest deal. But also noticing that if it's like a tinge pain, that's different, right? That's like maybe I'm pulling a muscle or doing something damaging. But if it's more like my legs are burning, like, okay, I can handle that. I have indigestion in my throat.

I can handle that. It's almost learning to be more like in tune or like intuitive with like your body, like what your body is actually telling you. Yeah. Instead of just reacting, like we just react. Like, I'm out of breath. Like, yeah, you're out of breath. That's like, what happens?

And sometimes with my breath, I'll, like, almost fight that, like, like, it feels like not okay. And then I'm kind of like, okay, that's okay. Like, I can breathe in that way. That's like what happens when you run. You breathe in a different way than you normally breathe, and you just have to kind of be like, okay, that's how I'm breathing fast and quickly.

And, you know, so it's a lot of. more just becoming conscious and then the thought process behind that which is like I can't do this I just you know it's just I have to stop or whatever and just go even if you just take another even if you run for 30 more seconds with some consciousness and then you end up stopping I think that's helpful too and this can go for yoga for spinning for it doesn't have to be running running anything you don't like to be like some people hate yoga yeah yeah totally they hate the feeling of being upside down. Yes, all of it. So, but I just found it funny that I'm like sitting here trying so hard and she's, you know, so that's not as uncomfortable for her, you know. Right. Something else might be. Yeah. All right. Well, let's help some people. Yeah. Let's do it. This is a good. I'm going to try this with with things big and small this week as I get irritated, which is my, is my emotion of choice as when things don't come my way. Yes.

Let's get into the other people's problems. Ready? Let's do it. All right. If you have a voicemail at the end of this episode, if you have a voicemail, you can leave us one at 646-363-6294, or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com.

And if you want a meditation, we have so many meditations that are in the feed. If you're a subscriber, you can get them. We just did two. One was on being let go from your job. If you're going through it, if you're going through it, if you're friends going through it, you can send it to them.

The other one was politics. It's a very tense time out there. Or in the home stretch. And so if politics are making you feel overwhelmed, as I have a feeling is happening to a lot of you, you can go listen to our oversharing meditations that are right on the feed if you're an Apple subscriber. Or you can go to subscribe.com.

Subscribe there. Also, you get the episodes, ad-free, extra little bonus, if that's something that irritates you. Or you can practice. sitting through the ads, feeling annoyed, and coming out on the other end and realizing that little ad break

isn't that big of a deal. Or you can subscribe, whatever. Take whichever route you want. Let's do an overshare. I'll read it before I go crazy. All right. Dear Dr. Naomi and Dragana, thank you for your guidance.

This podcast has been very helpful in my life. I'm a 39-year-old beauty professional and I've been in a salon suite with one other stylist for six years now. I have 14 years of experience and have felt confident in my abilities until this past week. I pride myself on being a friendly, empathetic, and inclusive hair professional. I have some deep people-pleasing tendencies that I've been working through in therapy. It's usually only detrimental to myself mostly.

Over the past few months, I've been trying to help a new client get her hair to a lighter level. She has been using black box dye for years. I conducted a strand test and it looked like we could get her one or two shades lighter. We were able to get her to a medium brown, but unfortunately it was patchy due to years of dye overlap. The original plan would be to get an even canvas. We eventually got it over two appointments. However, she never seemed completely happy with it. She would message a week later asking to come in and have me try to get the darker parts more even.

I want my clients to be happy, so I'm willing to try anything within reason. We spaced out the appointments for weeks, except for when she was upset about patchiness in between. on our fourth appointment despite my knowledge from years of corrections and my experience with her hair we had some breakage on the ends of her hair mostly in the back i absolutely devastated this client i've always prided myself on being careful and i keep going over in my head on what i could have done differently i know now that i should have said no and that's on me i'm writing in because i'm struggling with what to do next i didn't charge and even refunded the previous appointment I sent her home with two repair products. I've ordered more to be delivered to her.

I've completely broken her confidence to fix any of it. Worst part is that I know it's going to affect her for a while. I feel like I've ruined her livelihood as her career is affected by her appearance. I feel lower than low. If it were not for being a single mom of a young man, I'd throw in the towel on my career. I plan to take a break in 2025 as even before this unfortunate appointment burnout was affecting me greatly. It seems like hair professionals are expected to be magicians. and therapists while never making mistake. I'm human. This is weighed heavily on me.

Dr. Naomi, do you have any advice in how to work through the grief of hurting someone in this context? Intentions or advice are greatly appreciated. I need to stop ruminating for my health. Thank you, a very disheartened hair professional. Yeah, I feel bad for her. This is tough because it's like her identity, you know.

Yeah, she seems to have taken this very, very hard. And I would start off by saying that like carrying this deeply and like doing all the things she did to repair it, I think is more than a lot of people would do. I'm not saying they're right in not doing that. But I think a lot of people would be like, you asked for this. I did what you asked. And like, that is what it is. Not my problem. Yeah.

And she didn't do that at all. I think that she did seem like she took many, many efforts to like try to rectify the situation. and make her happy. 100%. And she knows that she noticed that she has like people pleasing tendencies. So, um,

and I like that she came out of it kind of being like, maybe I should have said no to this whole thing in the first place, knowing that this was a really hard thing to accomplish. And, you know, probably not going to be able to do it like perfectly. Um, and,

and yeah, everybody makes mistakes. But I think the way she's handling it just goes to show that she's like internalize. all of this, like on herself. None of this, like you said, going to, you asked about this, you know, going from, you know, black hair to something lighter

is going to be a difficult process. And, yeah, she's really blaming herself. And yeah, maybe she didn't make a mistake. I don't know what doesn't sound like she's, there's anything in particular that she did wrong. It was probably just too much processing, which the patient knew that how much processing was gut patient. The client knew how much processing was going on on her hair.

So yeah, I just feel bad. I think that's probably why maybe she's experiencing this burnout. If she's a people pleaser already and now she's like constantly trying to please people every day. Right. Emotionally is probably just draining. Do you like it and not trying to read into whether or not somebody likes it or Yeah. And I think to like generalize this or maybe make it more relatable to people not in the hair care industry, I think you can, I think a lot of the times when you're working on anything and it feels this emotional and it feels this upsetting, it's like that's almost like the ideal way to go through anything, whether it's like work or your personal stuff or anything you're working on your personal, like whether you're dating or trying to a kid or your job. like the ideal way to do it obviously is to not be like internalize the results in a way that

makes you feel like it if it's about who you are like kind of like you said in the beginning. But I think it's hard to do that. Right. For a lot of things. Yes. To be like non-results oriented or to be like this is this is not who I am. This is what I'm doing or this is like a thing on the side or something. Yes.

Totally. Yes, I agree. And it sounds like she's been doing this for a long time and she has had a huge success rate. Like this is probably a total outlier, which is why it's bothering her so much. Like this has never happened before. If this was something where like every couple weeks somebody comes in and they don't like their hair, you'd probably be used to it by now. And you'd be like, okay, this person doesn't like the way it turns out. That's part of the job. Sometimes they like it. Sometimes they don't. But it sounds like you've had a really great success rate. on this so it feels like such a heavy blow to the ego. And like I think she has to maybe maybe the burnout and the break is kind of like you need to have something else in your life that you're going to on a regular basis that makes you feel good about yourself or that can help form your identity outside of this work thing. Right. Yeah, I think maybe that's part of the solution. I mean, how else would you suggest

kind of taking this and like separating her because it's like it feels deeply personal right I think it's like all this stuff feels personal and I guess the people pleasing part of it with her is probably this really this discomfort with the fact that this woman probably like doesn't have the most positive feelings towards her yes that's what I think like she's like she's she's lost her trust she's not going to come back she's lost the client it sounds like and maybe the fear that she's going to tell other people that she did this thing and that it didn't turn out well and and, you know, all of that, I think. I think also it just feels like bad to feel like there's someone out there who just doesn't like you.

Yes. I think that's more the people pleasing probably. Like for anyone who's people pleasing or that's probably like the crux of it is like this feeling of like, that there's someone out there's negative feeling. I'm like I'm associated with negative feelings. Yes. And that feels shitty if you think about it. Yeah.

Totally. Well, I mean, if you look at it that way, she can also think about. this client that came in, it sounds like she didn't hold back in telling her how it was going to ruin her career and how her livelihood is based on her appearance and how she's devastated. And like, this person wasn't really super concerned about her feeling badly. And like what didn't sound like she was trying to make her, like, I do wonder if this client was a little bit more like, okay, I understand, like mistakes happen. You tried your best, you know, whatever.

That might have changed the way she feels. So I think thinking about like the voice that's in your head of how this woman presented it when like, and I know like I'm almost hesitant to be like it's just hair because this is what she does all day. But like it's also just hair. Right. You know, like I used to teach a class on for physician's assistants on like how to handle when you make a mistake as a physician. And like a person's health is harmed in some way. And that's like another way that people have to deal with. was making mistakes.

I mean, mistakes happen. You made one. You're realizing that you, there's something you shouldn't have done. It happens to everybody. I mean, I don't even know if I ever told you this story, but I had to get a gum graft. I had like a receding gum line.

And they recommended that I get like a gum graft to fix this receding gum. So I went in. I did, it was like a whole surgery procedure. They're like, I won't get graphic, but it was like a whole thing. and did the gum graft. And I went back in for like the two-week checkup or whatever it was.

And they were like, it didn't work. Like it just didn't work. So she was like, we have to try it again. So I went back in. Same thing, maybe like six months later, did the whole thing again. And again, it didn't work. And so they give you an explanation as to why it didn't work? It's a difficult area of the mouth.

It's just basically like it's a tough, which reminds me of this woman's issue. Right. Like it's a tough ask. I mean, they recommended it. They performed it. Right. But they were just like,

it's a tough spot in the mouth, and it's hard to, you know, sometimes talking or whatever. And after the second time, I was like, all right, this just didn't work. And like, I'm sure this woman,

the doctor, tried her best. You know, she probably did everything she could. And it just, but if I would have done in there, like guns ablaze in started screaming at her and like telling her how horrible she was and how like now I'm what whatever I had to go through

all this pain and for nothing and I'm sure that she probably would have ended up having like sleepless nights over it too but maybe or she might not have given a fuck out of yeah maybe people don't some some people don't yes yes and that's a bad thing too on the other you know what I mean there's like oh there's almost like a spectrum of like how much you should internalize and care about things if someone's telling you they were you ruin their life and you're like, well, what's on you? I try my best. But also like then, but also she's like thinking of quitting this job because of this thing. So that's the other spectrum.

I do not think. Like that's where you have to step back and notice your reactivity to something that it feels bad. Her ego has a blow to it. She feels guilty. She feels badly. And maybe she wants to take a break if she's feeling a little burnout. But you're obviously good at what you do. doing it for, you know, a long, long time. You've sounds like you've never had this happen before.

It's bound to happen in 15 years of practice that you're going to mess something up. That's just, and that's kind of like how I looked at this, you know, the procedure that I had. Like, okay, if I was the one, like, you know, it sucks and it wasn't ideal, but I, you know, I don't think it always has to be like someone's fault or like you have to make a big accusation and, you know, get, you know, compensated and it's just sometimes, okay, this didn't work out and we got to move on. So I hope she can do that for herself too because I'm sure she's great at what she does. So noticing that dialogue in your mind that I'm guessing might have been put there by this client who was dissatisfied and perhaps was really verbally, like, assertive about how displeased she was,

which is fine. You can you can assert yourself and all that. But, yeah, this does not affect every single head of hair that you've done over the course of the last whatever it was 14 years. Right. And next time, you'll, you know, you'll say, you'll be more likely to say no. So it'll help you in your career because you'll have this experience of this thing that didn't go well. And next time, you'll become a better, you'll become a better version of your profession by just saying, I've done this before.

It really didn't work out. I really would hate to see you, you know, upset because the results did not come. come out as you want to. Totally. And I think there are a lot of professions and maybe this had to happen for her to learn that lesson. You know, like there are a lot of professions. Like I can't think of an example, but someone will be like, no, that's not really, that's not possible. Like, that's not going to have. That's not the result. The result that you're looking for is not the result that you're going to get. Right. You know, like whatever it is. I've tried this. It doesn't work out well. Like it's, you're not going to like it. So yeah. And then you could find someone else to go,

probably you always if you want something you want someone to do something to your hair or whatever it is badly enough you'll find someone to do it so like and that's a little it is you have to remember that it is a little bit on her yes i totally agree and anytime i mean i think it's common knowledge anytime you're doing extensive processes on your hair it's not great for your hair like i think most people know that but yeah now you learned and also i think you working on your people pleasing is that you're in the right place. You're heading in the right direction. One, because you did this when you probably knew that it was going to be really challenging and probably should have said no. And two, because this is affecting you so deeply because you didn't please this person. So I would come out

of this with the silver lining of this is throwing me in the direction of I need to be able to tolerate that sometimes people aren't going to think I'm the best or they're not going to be happy with me or they're going to leave here being annoyed because I refuse to do this process on their hair that I knew wouldn't probably work well. Right. All right. Well, good luck. Don't quit.

Don't quit. You're great at this. I know you are. Go running. This will be easier. Everything will seem easier. Yeah, exactly. All right, let's do a betchesist.

I will read this. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I have an ethical dilemma for you. Is it unethical to ditch a passenger between connections? Let's find out. Yeah, let's find out. I'm writing this from the airport as I narrowly made a very chaotic international flight connection.

To sum it up, my connecting flight was canceled, then rebooked on a different airline right as my first flight was boarding. The flight I was rebooked on meant for a very tight connection. Now even more difficult as I needed to change terminals and redo check-in, etc. While I was on the first flight, I was seated next to two women who were translating for another passenger, an elderly woman who spoke no English. This passenger was on my connecting flight while the other girls who were translating for her went on to a different connection. Most people on the plane had connections to make and were all being re-booked on different flights. Some people were being booked on flights later that same day. Others were scheduled for flights the following day.

I told them that my new flight was taking off today, but I told them to tell the woman to check her email. to see when the airline had rebooked her. The girls told me that the woman was just going to follow me through the terminal to get to the right gate. I thought she should find some way to check with what her connection plan was, but figured it was none of my business, and I had no direct way of communicating this to her since I didn't speak her native language. When the flight landed, I ran off the plane, had to speak with multiple staff members to get a new boarding pass, then had to get on a bus to change terminals.

All throughout this, this elderly woman is running with me and trying to talk to me, even though I can't understand her. I asked her if she spoke any English at all. She said she didn't, and I tried pointing at the email on my phone to get her to understand that she should check what her new it was, since there wasn't a guarantee it would be the same as mine.

Of course, I was anxious about making my connecting flight and didn't want her to slow me down, but I also didn't know if we would be on the same flight. So I didn't make much of an effort to stay with her. I lost her a few times along the way in trying to speak with different airline represents. to figure out what was going on with my flight, but saw that she indeed made the bus to the new terminal.

Yay. She even spoke to me on the bus, but I didn't understand what she was saying, of course. I ran off the bus and went through the check-in and additional security and finally made it to the airport gate just in time for boarding. Once I got there, I didn't see the woman, and I started to wonder whether I should have waited for her

or made more of an effort to help her make it to the gate. I'm sure she has just as good of a reason to make her connection as I do, and I felt guilty for not at least checking to make sure she was finding her way. Finally, just as boarding started, she turned up, thank God, but I feel like an asshole having already made it to the gate without her. She wouldn't make eye contact with me once we were on the plane, and we were seated very close to each other. All of this happened on airlines and in cities where English is the first language, and her language was not represented on any signage or announcements. Should I have made more of an effort to stay with her throughout the connection?

Should I have tried to flag down a representative to get a translator? Should I have taken an extra moment to pull up Google translate, which I only now thought to do to try to communicate with her and direct her? What's our responsibility to other passengers as airlines continue to fuck all of us over? L.O.L. Really eager to hear your thoughts. Thank you so much. Love to you, both and the whole team. I like this one. Yes. Well, it's just like a... funny, true ethical dilemma. Yes, true ethical dilemma. I feel for both of them because it's like a airports are very stressful, very chaotic, and extremely stressful when you don't speak the language. I think that would probably add an entire other level to it. I once tried when I was abroad,

I tried to save money by getting, when I was visiting Paris, by getting to the airport via like the subway system. And I don't speak French particularly well. And I couldn't understand the signage. And no one was like the crack of dawn, so no one was around. And it was like, I think that might have been one of the most stressful days of my life. And I eventually gave up and like paid an exorbitant amount of money for a taxi. But so I can, I relate to the elderly woman, but I also feel for the woman who stressed out herself.

and trying to make her own flight. Totally. And look, we're Monday morning quarterbacking this and saying after the fact, what would have been the right move? So I will say the caveat being, like when you're in the moment of that and all you're thinking of is like,

I need to get to my gate ASAP, it's hard to make the right choice. Looking at it from here, I think the best thing would have done would have been to walk her over to an air, an airline employee and been like, here, I found this woman. She doesn't think she's doing. Help her.

Like, I got to go. But I get that in the moment of it. And I think she just, she almost kind of got like roped into this like she's going to follow you. Right. She's volunteer. Right. These two other girls made the plan. She's going to follow you.

Whereas a better plan might be like, hey, let's get you to a professional. Maybe they could even get her a wheelchair or like one of those cart cars. Tell the flight attendant. Yes. Make it someone who works there's problem. Yes. Yes. That's what she should.

I mean, looking back, it seems more obvious that she should have just enlisted the help of people that are getting paid to help people like this. I get she was trying to do the right thing. And I think if it wasn't for those girls that were kind of like, okay, we have the solution. The solution is you.

are going to take responsibility for this woman, which, like, wasn't probably the solution. I also think if they asked her instead of telling her what her plan was, like, if she, if she asked her, if that could be the plan, I think she would have been more protective over the woman. Right. Then, like, we've come up with this plan as opposed to, is it okay if she just, like, comes, like, sticks by your side? Right.

Right. And it's just not, it's not the best solution, really. it was just like a bunch of people making a plan. It's also kind of annoying that these other two women that had nothing to do with that came up with this plan that they had no responsibility for... Convenient for them. Yes, exactly. They like pawned her off.

I would, this reminds me of, because she's probably thinking in her head, she's probably like, am I a bad person? You know, would someone who's better or nicer would have, should have,

would have helped this person, would have done more. Like, she's probably going to be thinking about that for a while. It reminds me of this study, which I remember I learned about in psychology class, of the priest study. Do you know this one? No. Or it doesn't sound familiar thus far.

We're basically like, I think it's like a good Samaritan study or the priest study. So they basically like, as part of the study, they have priest. Yes. Yes. They have the, they have someone like pretend to be like an actor like falls on on the street or something like that. And then they see how these various priests. react as they're on the way to like a seminary class or something like that. And what they found was that like the priests who were in a rush didn't help the woman.

Like they were running if they were like late and they had to be somewhere on time, they didn't help. And the people who had who didn't have somewhere to go, like didn't have a class to attend, they did help. Yes. Basically being like, you know, you think it's all about like what a good person do this, what a good person not. But a lot of the time it's about like the.

circumstances around it's like situational bias. Like you would say like this priest is a good priest, is a good, you know, it's a good person. And this priest isn't. But it's like the study show, it's really is nothing. And this is like randomized. So it's controlling for all those factors. It's like actually it's just about are you in a rush or do you have the time to help the stranger on the street?

Totally. I love that. I think it's so true. And it really is so situational. It happens in so many different contexts where. And again, it goes back to a lot of what we talk about. When you're kind of in this fight or flight like survival mode, you're not going to be like your best self in that moment.

You're going to be like your survival self. Right. You're going to do things that you normally wouldn't do when you're in your, you know, like your truest form of yourself. So I really think that's very true. Like the kids the other day, they like to do a lemonade. stand. So they'll go to the corner and they like, you know, try to sell lemonade. And sometimes they'll be like, oh my gosh, that guy just like waved and drove by. Like they think he's like mean

because he's like being like, hey, like not buying any lemonade. Right. And I'm like, he's probably in a rush. They're probably like, somewhere to go. He's got somewhere to go. You can't stop and like buy lemonade. But he's acknowledging your presence by waving. And they're sort of thinking that he's just being like, that they're like waving intentionally and not buying any. So I totally agree with that. And I think she can cut herself some slack on it. And this is the reason why in these moments, when you notice that your nervous system is activated in this way that you could take that pause, take that breath, just find a little bit of calm, maybe not enough calm to spend the next 45 minutes getting this woman to her flight and potentially risking your own, but get enough

calm to be like, okay, maybe I, what's like, you can't think straight. I don't think, which is why they made this ridiculous plan in the first place. Because I think they were just so activated and rushing that like, nobody was really thinking straight. So I think that's the moral of the story isn't that you should have missed your flight necessarily to take care of this woman. I think it's maybe if you would have like realized, oh my God, I'm like really anxious here. This plan doesn't seem like it's working. Let me take a breath, think clearly walk her over to someone who can help her. Hey, she doesn't speak English. She has a close connection. Can you please help her? Best of luck to you. Hope to see you there. Agreed. I mean, the people who know how to translate know her language probably should have done that with her.

Yes. Because they could have handed her off with a translation for both of them. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, totally. That is true. But yeah, it's a really good point. I think it's not, this doesn't, doesn't boil down to like, are you a good person or not? I really love what you said there. It's more about like what is the context in which I'm being asked to make this. Right. We're all better versions of ourselves when we got plenty of time and nothing to do. And the rushing thing too, like I do that a lot where like I notice when I'm rushing that I'm not my best self. And, you know, like especially when it's something like if I'm, it's not that big of a deal. getting the kids to like a football practice.

It's like, okay. If he's five minutes late to the football practice and we're all going to just be speaking more kindly and more calmly and just kind of walking through this as if it's not like an emergency situation, which it's not. But sometimes you have to remind yourself because the clock and getting somewhere on time

can feel like a huge emergency. And sometimes it's more important than others, but sometimes you just get in the habit of like, you know, rushing. Right. And it kind of like takes you out of your, you're not your best self when you're rushing. So yeah, I love that point. That's true. All right.

Well, you're okay. Next time, you know, I've heard worse. Yes. Oh, yeah, I've heard worse. All right. Let's do some intentions. I will read them. Okay.

Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I'm a you up with. if it's a subscriber and I've been an avid over sharing a listener since the very beginning. I never miss an episode. I have a situation going on that I would love help setting an intention for. I welcomed a beautiful baby girl to the world in October of last year. The pregnancy was unplanned and kind of threw life upside down for my boyfriend and I who quickly decided we needed to move out of our townhouse and into a home with more space. I ended up having an emergency C-section that was quite scary.

I had pretty significant PPA and PPD. I think that's, I assume that's postpartum anxiety. anxiety and depression. I've weaned myself off Zoloft and I'm doing much better now. Anyway, I mentioned that to say that last year was crazy for me. About two months postpartum, my close girlfriend from college told me her and her recently engaged fiance set a date for their wedding. My baby's first birthday. When I heard the date, my heart sank. I was immediately sad, then disappointed than disappointed than every other emotion. I responded with some postpartum rage and said that we would see if I could make it to the wedding. She responded back and said that

She knew it was my daughter's birthday, but she hopes I go because she was planning on asking me to be her maid of honor. I said that I would be her maid of honor, but I would need to figure out a way to still see my daughter on her first birthday. The wedding is two hours from where we live. And being the maid of honor, I'm expected to be there Friday to Sunday for rehearsals, dinner, getting ready, wedding, giving a speech, etc. I asked her if the wedding was adults only and she said yes, that she thought it would be a good opportunity for parents to have a night out. I'm trying to give her grace because she doesn't have kids, but I'm so hurt. I cry every time I think about her birthday coming up. I ask my parents to go to the city where the wedding is that weekend and watch my daughter while my boyfriend and I attend the wedding,

and I'm hoping that I get moments and part of the day with her. I cannot imagine not seeing her on her first birthday. I keep seeing TikToks of traditions to start with your child on their birthdays, and so many of them are about decorating her house or their room, and it just kills me that we won't be in the first home as our family to enjoy it. It won't be in our first home as a family to enjoy it, and that I will likely only get an hour or so with her on the day. My sister and the other close friend that I've spoken to about this keep saying that she won't remember this birthday. I know this is true, but I will.

It just makes me sad. We just had her bachelor's party in the bridal showers next month. I plan both of the events and with every task I check off or thing I buy for one of her events, I get angrier about the fact that she didn't care. She chose to have her wedding on this very specific day. I held it together during the bachelorette party and had a good time until the end when I just got really sad and I wanted to see my baby. It was the first time being away from her for two nights.

I need help setting an intention so that I am not negative with every bridal event, especially on the day of the wedding when I have that in the back of my head that I am missing spending this day with my baby girl. Love you guys, still a friend, but more importantly, a mom. This woman's annoying me a little bit, I have to say. Yeah, tell me, what do you think? I find her to be like a little bit annoying. Like the baby won't remember, as the other people in her life has said.

And she can celebrate the baby's birthday like the day before or the day after. And I would never choose my wedding date around the first birthday of like anyone in my wedding party. Yeah. The birthday of anyone. Right. It could be my mom's birthday. It could be your daughter's birthday. It could be your dog's birthday.

Like I wouldn't, that wouldn't factor in for me. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely can see that perspective. And I think that had that very same thought of like, it's not the, it's not like you can't celebrate her birthday. You just can celebrate it on like a slightly different day,

the day before, the day after, the weekend before. And that part, she will never know. And you can still have all the, has no expectations. And you know what I looked up actually because I had the same thought,

which might make her feel better, that 2024 was a leap year. So in actuality, 365 days from her daughter's actual birthday isn't even her actual birthday. There you go. So her actual birthday is probably, I guess, the day before her birthday.

I don't know. I'm not good with these mental puzzles. But so there you go. Her actual birthday is like the day before her actual birthday because they added an extra day in the calendar. And it's all kind of irrelevant anyway, right? Like she's not going to know if it's the actual day. I do think that these kind of date things, like even when it comes to holidays, right? Or like, you know, if it's Thanksgiving.

Like obviously we grew up like splitting holidays. I'm kind of like, all right, we could do Thanksgiving like the day after. the next week or whatever it is and still have the same exact experience but on a different actual day that if you didn't know it was the day or there was like a leap double leap day that year or something you would never know that it wasn't on the day that it was supposed to be on right and this brings me to like something i've said before which is that you can be like annoyed with the situation like yeah i could see i can see on her end while why this is disappointing She wants, you know, she's, she's very anxious about doing the right thing.

She wants to have all the milestones that she sees online on social media. She wants it to be like that magical thing. And it's a disappointing thing to learn. Right. I can see that. I would validate feeling like this stinks. I wish it was a different day. Fine.

That doesn't mean anyone's done anything wrong. And that doesn't mean that like it's, it has to be an issue. You can be like, I think those are the things that your brain. has trouble having, like, just because something is disappointing doesn't mean something must be done about it. Yes. Yeah, that's kind of the theme. Like, something happened.

It doesn't feel good. And it's nobody's fault. And you just kind of have to handle it. Like, this is the type of thing when you're, you know, running or you're thinking about, okay, I'm going to eat this banana, even though it's a little overripe and I'm just going to handle it. Like, and I'm going to handle that I have to celebrate my daughter's birthday the day before her birthday. Like, it's uncomfortable. I don't like it, but I can handle it. Right. And maybe there is something

a little bit deeper coming up for her about, you know, the best, I don't know, you know, what's there, the best friend, she's getting married, you know, she maybe, I don't know if she wanted to get married and didn't get a chance before she had her baby. I don't know if that plays into this or, you know, maybe just she feels like she's giving so much to this friend between all the different celebrations. And I think people do feel like this a lot with weddings. Like, I'm giving and giving and giving. So then when you don't give me a plus one or you say it's no kids invited or you are annoying about the dress or whatever, it feels like, oh my God, you're like sucking me dry

here. Right. Yeah. And I think the postpartum anxiety and depression probably play into it in this sense of like, okay. And she talks about social media, seeing the things on social media about the first birthday, all the things that you can do, the memories you can make. And she's probably like, I don't.

didn't have this like social media happy post-birth experience. Right. Like I didn't get that. Internet, social media says I should have been, you know, doing all these fun, exciting things. I was actually quite anxious and depressed. Now I'm feeling better and now I'm going to be like continuing to be robbed of these, again, things that look super glossy and highlighted online.

Yes. And again, disappointing maybe, but like, again, no one's saying you can't have a big, huge first birthday for her the weekend after. Yes. Do it all. Do all the things. Do it the week after. You know, I totally agree. And I think you realize, like, and it's funny because I'm obviously later in this process. But like when they're little, it's the same thing as like the organic strawberries that you always make fun of me about when my oldest was a baby. and now it's like, you know, Cheetos and Nutella. But it's the same thing with the birthday. Like you're sort of like, okay, if your kid's six and their birthday falls on a Wednesday, like they're going to have a birthday party with their friends like on the Saturday after. So that's what you, their big birthday ends up being like not necessarily on their birthday

if they want all their friends to come and whatever. So I really think you have to give up on the birthday and maybe give some thought to like what's underlying. the intense irritation. I get it. It's not the right day. But I think there might be something more to it, like you said, almost that she feels like she can't have a big Instagramable.

Right. It's not about her baby. It's about this milestone for her. It's about the friend. Right. She's probably, I think you're on fire today. I think you got this one nail on the head too. Yeah, that this is sort of like,

she's finally feeling better and wants to do like the things that she can do. Like she said, she was caught off guard by the pregnancy. So maybe there wasn't as much of a, you know, maybe there was like a little process of her kind of coming to terms with the baby. And they didn't do the announcements and the gender reveal. And I don't know how all that went.

But I think she's finally feeling better and wanting to have more of like her typical, whatever's to be expected and not getting that. So yeah, I get it. Do you have an intention for her? It's not ideal. So yeah, so the intention that I wrote is just to keep her kind of coming back to what she's really trying to do and what the goal is, which is we're celebrating the joy of our baby's birthday, not the accuracy of the date. So it's not about the date. It's about the joy of bringing, and even the way she said it in the beginning of her email. Like we brought, we welcomed our baby to the world in October.

And like that's what you're celebrating. You're celebrating welcoming your baby into the world, not whether it was October 11th or 12th. It's really irrelevant. So just remember. Eyes on the price. We're celebrating the joy of our baby's birthday, not the accuracy of the date. That's to kind of come back to a little perspective there. Keep that mind.

All right. Let's do some triggers. Right. Do you going to read our first one? Yeah, I will read this. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, love the pod and thank you for everything y'all do. I have a scenario for you that I'm not sure what category it would fall under and will probably be resolved by the time you read and address this, but I'll get into it anyway. I'm a therapist with my own practice and I'd say I'm a little too flexible when it comes to cancellation policies and such, but mostly all my patients are so good about informing me ahead of time and making an effort to reschedule their slot if they're notifying me about a cancellation last minute.

I think I've been spoiled by how great an understanding all my patients are, and I've basically never actually had to charge someone a fee since they actively rescheduled the same week or tell me well in advance, which leads me to my issue. This week, I got an email from a patient who canceled five weeks in a row during our last session mid-August and hasn't made an attempt to reschedule in a month. Asking to cancel his appointment for Monday, his email was sent at 11 p.m. on Sunday, and all he said was hey, cancel my appointment tomorrow. I responded that I can do that and reiterated the cancellation policy, which is outlined in every single reminder email sent out to patients. I guess he misunderstood that the policy means there's a late cancellation fee. Although again, it was literally in the

reminder email he got 72 hours before the appointment. He then sent me a pretty aggressive email saying that if he knew there was a fee, he would have just made the appointment work, and that he doesn't want to discuss further sessions until this issue is resolved. Mind you, he's taking up a prime slot in my weekly schedule. His demeanor and tone in his emails, along with his failure to make any scheduling attempts, definitely shows a misalignment and perhaps a misunderstanding in the importance of the therapeutic process and remaining consistent. I was feeling so triggered by this exchange that it was all I thought about in bed that night. And the first thing I thought about when I woke up.

I'm a South Asian woman and I'm keenly aware of the different dynamics and the very present misogyny that often exists amongst men and women in my culture. I do think some of that is infiltrating this situation as a whole and why I felt so activated and triggered by this interaction. I can't help but think, would he address me in this way if I was a man? Does he think it's okay to talk to me like this because I'm a woman? Ultimately, I'm wanting to terminate this patient under the guise that he hasn't shown up or made an attempt to meet in over a month. But I know it's also largely about his tone with me and his blatant disregard for my policies and my schedule, so I'm not sure how ethical or appropriate that would be, something I will definitely

be bringing up in my next supervision, L.O.L. I ended up processing the refund because I didn't want to deal with his entitled attitude anymore, which probably sets the precedent that my policy shouldn't be taken seriously. Dr. Naomi, how would you go about this if this was your patient. How triggered can I be? Thank you sincerely therapist. Okay. Like the sign off. Yes. I feel like you as a therapist would have a strong take on how triggering this be. This sounds pretty triggering to me, but I also think like she's maybe it's more triggering because she won't just charge the cancellation fee. Like to me that like you don't have to be triggered if you just do what what's in your like outlined set of standards.

Right. Right. Like I can say this as a, I guess I'm not in it, but again, like looking at it from an outside perspective, I'm like, just charge the fee and then you don't have to be pissed because you're getting the fee.

Like that's exact, that's the contract that you've written. Right. Yeah, I get that. And I do think she's self-aware to realize that she does have like muddled boundaries around this, but perhaps because she's just,

felt that they've had a respectful interaction and hasn't really had to set this boundary. So there probably is a learning curve here as she is, or if she was about to set this boundary for the first time and then kind of went back on it because he was upset. It is a little bit of that like people, pleasery, I don't want this person to be angry with me, which then reinforces this idea that the policy is not the policy. That there's kind of wiggle room there. The other thing, though, that I think is the part that she's probably struggling with is like she refunded the money, fine. Like she could have not refunded the money. And then like you said, been like, okay, you didn't, you canceled.

This is the consequence. I'm not going to refund the money. But I think it's more about like now what for her with this patient. Like whether she refunded or she didn't refund it, she's feeling irritated. And as a therapist, if you're feeling irritated with a patient that, You can't just like let that go. And you also can't just like terminate them because they annoyed you. That's not allowed.

So grateful to be in a profession where that's allowed. That's true. So I'm glad. Are you not supposed to do that like ethically? No. I mean if someone, if someone annoys you or pisses you off, you can't just terminate them for that reason. That's why a lot of therapists do have like supervisors to kind of process through some of that to figure out what is it. It sounds like she's coming closer to the

answer of what is it about this patient that's irritating her, which is this cultural thing, that, you know, the misogyny in her culture that she thinks is like coming out through this patient. So that's got to be like a her issue that she handles on her own so that she can be like more unbothered by this person. And yes, so all that being said, it is very irritating and his message was extremely irritating. Cancel my appointment. You know, no acknowledgement that he knows what that means, that there's like, you know, that he's aware because he's gotten this cancellation policy probably a dozen times before, however many times he's been in therapy if she sends it out every time. So, and then his, you know, power move where he's like, I will not be rescheduling any further

appointments unless you, like, rectify the situation, which is all of that annoying for sure. Right. Condes feels condescending. Condescending, annoying. I get it. But then almost, I think, she needs to do her work and not letting it, like, really deeply affect her or figure out why it's affecting her and come back to it with more of like a neutral lens, which is. And, you know, like, okay, like again, ideally, this is the cancellation policy. I'm going to charge you, like not refunding the money because I've told you the cancellation policy. You canceled way less than 24 hours in advance with no reasonable explanation, even if he did

have a reasonable explanation. She didn't do that. That's fine. But like, I think moving forward, then just trying to schedule another appointment, like, that's what I would do. I would, I mean, if she feels like she's in the right headspace to do that, like if she goes to her supervision, she figures out it's not really about this patient, it's about what he's triggering in her from like her own culture, perhaps her father, people and her family, then come

back if you feel like you, you know, can be more neutral with him. And supervision is like the therapist therapist? Yeah, well, it's, it's, it's a therapist, therapist for her, for his or her, like therapy. So it's more like stuff comes in. Maybe you do talk about your, relationship a little bit, but it's more like, how can I be the best therapist? How can I be self-aware? This is a perfect thing for supervision, right? Like, this patient's triggering me. How do I not, like, take it out in the session and kind of deal with it elsewhere? I see. Or it could sometimes just be like, oh, I don't know how to help this person. Like, I feel confused about what to do next year. It doesn't always have to be necessarily like your personal, but oftentimes it is. Okay. So I think it's

great that she's going to seek supervision on this. But I think I would just, if she can tolerate it and still continue to be a good therapist to this person, come back in, try to reschedule another appointment. Like you said, here's my policies. I'm going to try to resched. I'll reiterate my cancellation policy. Send it to him again. Try to schedule another session. And in that session, I would discuss all of this. What's going on? What's with the cancellations? Like, are you feeling, you know, a certain way about coming into therapy. Is it bringing stuff? Like whatever, just kind of bringing that all, the best moments between therapists and patient

are when you're talking about like your relationship. Your relationship. Like saying, yeah, you know, it annoyed me that you didn't refund the money right away or what, you know, let him say all of that to you and just kind of take that in, reflect back, you know, maybe validate his feelings if you feel that you can, listen to what he has to say, and then you guys learn together that you can work through these kind of conflicts together, which is, that's beautiful. And then hopefully you can learn to do that in his regular life.

Yeah, that sounds like a much nicer way to do it than my instinct. Which was what, just drop him. It doesn't respect the policy. Yeah, I mean, and look, I think if she can't call him, to a place where if she's coming into sessions, like grinding her teeth and clenching her fists and she's like, can't be a good therapist to this person, then you have, you have no choice but to kind of refer him out to somebody else because she's not going to be a great therapist. If he's talking about his life and all she's thinking about is like how much she hates

him, like that's not going to be, that's not going to work out well. So she could terminate if she feels like she really can't be the best therapist for him. But I think if she really explored you're going to get people that cancel. It happens all the time. A, why can't she, you know, enforce the policy? Enforce the policy. And B, why is it so triggering that it's not like what you just said, great. Enforce my policy, I move on with my day.

There's something deeper that this person's bringing up for her. I'd give it a six, though. It's very annoying to be treated like your time doesn't matter. Totally. Casually. Yeah, I agree. The text that he sent was really. annoying. Also like cancel, like, could you please

cancel my appointment? Even if it was like, could you please cancel my appointment tomorrow? Yes. It would be better than like an order. Yes. And just you know, I'm so sorry. I know this is last minute. Like some acknowledgement, totally. So I get that you're triggered, but I think this is a good learning opportunity for you to kind of be like, all right, I can't just get triggered and then run away from this person. Because people are going to, patients will trigger you. for different reasons, your own stuff. But yeah, I agree.

I would give this. I'll give it a sex. I agree with that. Great advice. You nailed this one. Thanks. Let's do one more. We've got a voicemail.

Again, you guys have a voicemail. You want to leave us 646-36-3-66-26-2-9-4. Let's roll the tape here. Hi, Zordana and Dr. Naomi. I am calling in with a triggered. So in my town, they're doing this arts festival. with booths set up or they have different vendors selling like they're different crafty things. And I was there earlier this morning with my eight-month-old in his stroller.

And we're standing at this booth maybe for like 30 seconds a minute I'm checking something out. And this old lady starts peeking in his stroller. And I just kind of notice it and keep looking because I'm used to people looking at him and trying to get him to smile or whatever. But then she starts to get like really close to him, like in his face. So I go, excuse me, and she's like, his leg or her legs need to be covered. And I just am like, okay, in a nice voice, just like thinking it's another old person who needs to share their opinion about covering babies with socks and whatever and expecting

her to go away. And she like stays like in really close to him and starts like reaching towards them. And she's like, or is it a he? And she gets like to grabbing a bandana that he's playing with in his lap, playing peekaboo with. And she like, excuse me, don't touch him. He's my baby. Or she said, excuse me, don't touch him, please. And she's like, he's liking to be covered.

He's going to burn. And I'm like, he's my baby. Don't worry about him. He's okay. And she's like still trying to reach for him. So I'm like chewing her and grabbing the stroller. And then she just says, grow up and storms away from me. And then I was annoyed and just kind of decided to walk around and we ended up just leaving.

But yeah, I just wondered how triggered by this would you guys be? I wouldn't have even fazed me until she started like reaching in to touch him. And then I just got really flustered. But yeah, I really love your guys' podcast. Thank you. Bye. There's more. Hi, sorry to call again, but I forgot some important details.

Where we're at today is cloudy, sunny, cloudy mixture, 75 out, and he was in his stroller, oh, UV index is 5. He was in his stroller with the canopy completely out. His face was, like, never showing. He had the socks on and, like, shorts that went down to just above his knees, so just his calves out. And they were sometimes in the sun, sometimes, like, weren't since we were walking around,

turning into different shops and stuff. And so she knows he could have been wearing sunscreen. He wasn't, but she didn't know that. So yeah, I just thought that was important too. That's funny. Grow up. Oh, my gosh. This is triggering.

I could hear it in her voice. Like she's still, this is why I like voicemails. Like I could feel like she's still feeling it. Right. And I mean, it does, you know, you do get. If something is really triggering, it is because of an insecurity. And, like, yeah, that's why she called back with the need to, like, over-explain, like, I, you know, to validate that she's, that she's correct, that she is a good mom,

that she's taking care of her baby, that it wasn't that sunny, that she wasn't putting him at risk. Yes, yes. And that, yeah, it's like a, it's tough because she's, like you said, she's a new mom. This baby's eight months old. She doesn't know everything. And she, this woman was tapping into some. insecurity, but it's, I agree, but so rude. So rude. So annoying, touching the thing that he was holding like that, that taking it out of his hand, like that would have been my breaking point

too. Yeah, I would never touch someone else's baby or like their things. Totally. A stranger. Oh my. Yeah. This was really annoying. I think every parent, new parent has probably had this happen. I remember one of my oldest. And it's funny because it happens early. on when you're still like finding your confidence and knowing what to do. But I had my oldest, like out at the beach. She was born in March. So it was probably like, you know, summertime. Maybe she was like three or four months old. And I like posted a picture of her out at the beach. And I remember one of my good friends from college, like, I don't know if she replied or said something like, oh my gosh, like she shouldn't, you know, she's too young for sunscreen. She shouldn't be,

some like comment and I remember fuming like I was getting so mad um that she was like comment it felt like she was like calling me like a bad mom so I know how triggering well that is kind of what they're doing like it feels like it because that's kind that is what they're doing it's like it's like you're doing this thing wrong right you're not good at it you're not taking good care of your baby it's not how I would have done it yes it is very very very good very triggering, especially, and that was like from a distance. That wasn't even someone, A, I didn't know, B, actually reaching into the stroller, putting her breath near my baby's face and taking his handkerchief. Right. Very annoying. Definitely triggering. But I agree with you.

I think she's tapping into an insecurity. I'm sure you're a great mom. He got a little son on his legs, he's going to be perfectly fine. And even if the worst case scenario happened where he got like a little bit of a sunburn, he's going to live, doesn't make you a bad person, doesn't make you a bad mom. And I'm sure he didn't get a sunburn with all the, you know, details that you described. I'm sure he didn't. But at some point in his life, he's going to get a sunburn. Yes. And like it doesn't mean that you're a bad mom. Even if he does get a sunburn at some point, which he will. Yes. I mean, have your kids, have your kids. Have your kids. ever not, have any of your kids never gotten a sunburn?

Oh, I think we talked about it on here when Lila got, like, she kept telling me, do I need more sunscreen? Like she was telling me. Right. I think I need more sunscreen. I'm like, you're fine. You don't need more sunscreen. And then she ended up getting a sunburn.

And I felt terrible. Yeah. So I'm saying, they're going to get a sunburn. Right. And at six months old, it was like, you said, like with the, you know, triple washed organic strawberries and now I'm like, all right, enough with the sunscreen. Fine. Get over it.

Tough it up. Yeah. But I would say the fact that it's a stranger, she's basically telling her she's a bad mom and she's like, she's like, imagine being the kind of person where someone is physically showing you away and you come back in. Yes. This is, I was going to say, we could get into the whole, you know, psychology of this other woman and she must have some like her maybe children don't listen to her or speak to her or

somehow she feels like the need to get this part of her out in some other capacity and you happen to be in her way. Yeah. I'd give it like a seven. Yeah, I was going to say seven. I would give it a just like I in reality there's nothing so terrible that happened. She didn't hurt him. She didn't like, you know, try to snatch him and run away, but the feeling that you would get from someone getting that close to your baby is really triggering. And what she's saying, it's not even like she was getting so close to like try to give him a kiss, like, she's getting so close to like extra shame you. Right.

Oh gosh. Yeah. Validated. Totally validated. This is, I pray to God that I do not ever turn into that old lady that's like giving young, mom's unsolicited random advice about how to raise their baby

because somehow this is like a thing yeah I think don't give anyone unsolicited advice I would ever give like you ever like just if you see like a couple fighting like there's my thoughts like no don't give advice unless someone asked you for it yeah

but I don't know what happens is there's something that happens in your brain where all of a sudden you're an old lady and you think you need to tell every mom that their baby needs to put socks on. Like, this has happened to me. Yeah. A lot of times when my kids were little,

like random people talking about the temperature and they need a coat or they don't need a coat or socks, don't put socks. It's like, I don't know what it is. Reserve it for your own daughters-in-law. Yeah. Those are the only people who deserve that. Yeah.

Not strangers. There's something. But, yes, validated, triggered seven. All right. We did it. I hope we helped some people today. Oh, yeah, that's it. I thought I was looking forward to one more, but we did them both.

We did it. Time flies when you're having fun. Exactly. We'll be back next week. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Rebecca Steinberg.

Editing by Will Maxwell. Guest booking by Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and everything's fine. And send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches. Thank you.