Oversharing - How Should Daters Digest A Mental Illness Disclosure?

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

Happy Halloween! On this spooky episode of Oversharing, Dr. Naomi schools Jordana on how to be the “cool house” in the neighborhood. Our Overshare email comes from a boy Betch who has concerns about his new girlfriend’s mental health journey. How should you digest and respond to a disclosure about someone’s mental illness? The Betchicist question comes from a devoted friend who wonders just how far she has to go to support her entrepreneurial bestie. Dr. Naomi offers up an intention for a Betch on the brink of divorce. And to close things out, we’re feeling triggered by nosey cashiers and road-raging neighbors. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. What is up?

How's everything? Happy Halloween. Happy Halloween. I love Halloween. It's a really fun holiday. It is really fun. do you get a lot of trick-or-treaters? Well, we're usually like out trick-or-treating, so we just leave a bowl and then some

14-year-old comes and dumps the whole thing. Probably what I was at 14. But yeah, no, we usually go out. We had some pre-Hallowing festivities, which were fun. They had a trunk-or-treat, which was, it was chaos. It was crowded. You know, Maddie's getting dressed. I did a whole, you know, makeup and outfit for her, and she looked.

great and she wanted me to dress up. So I threw together a little outfit. And then I get there and I'm looking around. I'm like, the only parent that's in costume. Loser. But I was sort of like, all right, if she wants me to dress up, like she's still into this, like wants to include me with her and her friends. I'm like, I'm in. Oh, that's cute. What were you? So I just was like a 80s aerobicized. like I put basically like a bathing suit on top of my leggings and wore like big scrunchy socks and a side pony. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Okay.

I think that's cute. Yeah. This party was chaos. By the end, they kept having the DJ come on the microphone. He's like, we have a two-year-old PJ masks missing. Does anyone see Mikey? He's wearing a PJ masks costume and his parents are looking for him. And then five minutes later, they were like,

We have a five-year-old ninja turtle. Oh my God. It was just one big like grocery store. Do you have a lost child? Yes. But it was at the school. So it wasn't like, you know, I think it felt safeish. But yeah, it was chaos.

So there's a DJ. That's, that's legitimate. It was legit. They had like a candy exploding thing. It was like a candy gun that like shot out like candy into the air. And then all the kids like grab it. It was a... That's pretty fun.

Yeah, it was a good time. This is my, this is going to be my first suburban Halloween since I think childhood. Oh, right. And it's a Tuesday. So you're just going to sit home and hand out candy. Totally, I guess. I mean, what time? I don't know anything about, like, what the deal is with, like, trick or treaters.

Do they come at night? Do they come? Is it an all day thing? Are they like hours? I don't know if I talked about this last year, but I think it depends on where you are. In New York, we used to come. come home right after school, get your costume on, and we're like hitting the streets by four o'clock. And I think I said this last year.

In Texas, they start when the sun starts to go down. So our whole family was outside like at four o'clock walking around. I'm like, did they even do Halloween here? Like what is happening? It was just the five of us. Like it full decked out costume walking around like in daylight. So I think by you, they'll probably, you'll probably start to have some trick-or-treaters by like 4.30 is my guess.

Okay. Yeah, I feel like whenever the kids come. I don't feel like I'm in like the prime neighborhood for trigger treating. You know, like there's the there's like that one neighborhood usually I feel like in the town that people go to. The houses are like spaced apart very like efficiently. Right. To get as much bang for your buck. So I don't feel like I'm in that area.

But I'm going to have candy anyway. What is the etiquette? Is it like one? Per person if you're at the door? No. Is it a handful? True. That'll be like, here is one Hershey kiss for you.

One Hershey kiss for you. Isn't that the point of them being bite size? I mean, I don't know. No, you definitely like either let them reach in and grab a handful or I would, I would, you know, I would let them pick. Hold out the thing. Let them pick a couple of their choice. Let them pick. Okay.

Yeah. Or you can hand out. If you'd like, you could throw. I'd say two or three small candies. Okay. I don't know. I'm asking. Just you're,

I feel like you're judging. I'm trying to get, you know, just to get in the right, um, mo it. I don't want to be shocked culturally. If you want to be super cool and you're not going to get a lot of trick or treaters, go to Costco and get like a big case of like actual candy bars. Real size. Like a full size candy bar. Well, what if the word spreads and then I write?

Yeah. that's true yeah that's very fun i mean i'm sure there's like one house that you guys know of that always has it and then they walk around and they all tell each other right that's what i'm saying like the house on the corner has full size and then everyone runs over there dangerous game they're out it is but i guess if you're doing that then that's what you want to be right you want to be like the cool full-sized candy bar house right are you that could be you no i've never done full-size candy bars okay never sounds expensive yeah it is expensive That's A plus Halloween.

Right. I think you're like a B Halloween. Well, the other thing is like it feels like weird to get too into like the Halloween decorating and thing like with that like if you don't have kids. So we're kind of in like a weird place for that because I feel like it's a little like almost like creepy to be like going so hard on the Halloween decor if it's like just you and your husband. Right.

Like you're luring the kids in with. Right. Right. There's something a little weird about it. So we just did like. we also just moved it so we just did like one tasteful pumpkin okay like an actual pumpkin a real pumpkin okay yeah all right it shows that you're open to the spirit but you're not laying it on too thick right we're not being weird about it yeah what do you do like the cobwebs and all that

well the kids as they get older they like like like creepy they wanted to be creepy because i think it's cool it's like creepy scary but god These Halloween decorations are expensive. Yeah. Well, you can reuse them, right? Yeah, we reuse them. But a lot of times, like, unless you're really going for the high quality stuff, they don't last that well year to year.

We did buy this cool thing. It's like a projector screen. So it's a projector and you put like a screen up on one of your windows. And then it really looks like there's like something in your house. Like it almost looks like there's like a creepy, like ghost like behind the window. It's a cool Halloween decoration. Cool. I feel like that would scare me.

I'd be like, because I'm not scared of like the ghost part, but I'd be like, oh, is there like a serial killer in the house? Yeah. It is very creepy. And, you know, it's because Halloween's so different, like for a three-year-old and then for like a 10-year-old, you know? So I remember when the girls were little, I still remember the voice, Maddie walking up to a house and she was like, too creepy, too creepy.

Now she's into it. Yeah, now she's like the creepier the better. I wonder if there's like a, is there anything in psychology about like the reason people like to be scared? Like you think of a horror movie as sort of like a masochistic kind of thing. They're like almost like a really hot hot sauce. It's like what is the psychology behind? It's so true. And it's really funny because it's like that same like middle school-ish.

like tween teen where they're super into like the spicy foods and the creepies it's like a little bit of that jolt that like excitement but it still feels kind of safe because you know that it's a haunted house or it's a scary movie so you can get it's like what we talk about that like feeling your feelings in your body whether it's like anxiety or a beautiful sunset or a horror movie you kind of like seek out sometimes that activation, but when it's a horror movie, it feels like this, I'm feeling into my body, but my brain knows that I'm safe. So maybe there's something that feels good about that, you know? A safe adventure. I like that. That's a good way to get off, you know, in a safe way. Right. Totally. Exactly. You know, or there's like, you know, skydiving or bungee jumping or these

things that are not quite so safe as watching a scary movie, but still, you know, safer than actually falling off a cliff or right you feel like you're really living how well happy Halloween i can't wait to see the pictures uh yes for sure recording this and that's the cutest time of year let's get into today's emails we can start with an overshare i'll do it and if you want to leave a voicemail for us you can leave a voicemail at six four six three six two nine four or you can email us at oversharing at betches dot com okay i'll read the first one dr naomi and jordanah thank you so much for your weekly wisdom I'm a guy who started dating a woman about a month ago. It's going well and I'm excited. She recently revealed that she has OCD. It was severe as an adolescent and teen taking her mind to very

dark places, but she has been in treatment and on medication for many years and is thriving. I'm so impressed with how hard she's worked to overcome a debilitating problem. You would never guess she has OCD. She comes across as easygoing, is not meticulous about cleanliness, and doesn't have compulsive behaviors. She says that it now only manifests in losing. ways, all of which sound harmless. To me, major mental illness is a deal breaker. I have 50-50 custody of a young child to whom I need to give a stable home. And for myself, I don't want a relationship with lots of distress or instability. On the one hand, it feels silly to think of this problem, which feels solved as a deal breaker. On the other hand, I'm scared of what could happen if we end

up married and then the OCD spirals out of control. Pregnancy and other big life changes are known to cause relapse. In general, how should daters digest revealed information? about mental illness. How do you recommend thinking about it and communicating concerns? Thank you so much. It's interesting. I feel like whenever we get these emails from guys about dating, it's always like, she's not perfect.

And I've discovered that. And like, is it okay to leave? You never get that from a woman. Like, he's perfect in every way, but he has like the smallest minor thing that he can control. And like, I'm thinking of leaving. It's such a man perfectionist like thing. Right, right. Well, they are playing it forward and like playing out every possible thing that could go wrong before they fully commit to a relationship.

Like one of my favorite things that you ever said that I love is like, and obviously a generalization, but a difference between men and women where it's like women want to just like commit, be in the serious relationship. And then like figure out do I really like you? How can I change you? what do I want to make different? And the guys are kind of like, let me make sure that all those things are in place before I commit in a serious way, which makes the men seem a lot more rational. But I do think that it's kind of true. Women are just like, let's lock this down and we'll figure it out later.

Yeah. And then I'll change that. Right. You know, there's, you know, I'll work on it. Yes. Yeah. And then I think when like when women break up with men, it's like because they've tried so hard to change the thing, like, and verbalized it, where they're like,

please change, please change, please change. And then the guy doesn't change. And then they break up with the guy. And with men, it's like they're just secretly thinking of all the things they want to change. And then they just break up with you, like, without saying, without verbalizing any of them. Right. Or never commit in the first place because of all those things.

But in this case, I get it. He has a kid. And it does seem like when she said, I think probably the word, like dark place probably scared him when she said like it used to take her to a dark place that probably made him feel kind of unsafe. But that was also from what he says when she was a teenager, which is so different. I think people that do tend to have anxiety or OCD or any of these things when you're a teenager and you can't quite figure out how to get a handle on it, it can just feel so overwhelming that it's like I can't function and I can't live and I

can't find happiness, but it does sound like she's really come out of it. She's gotten treatment, and he can barely even see any ways that it's manifesting. I think this would be a bigger problem if he's like, well, we can't go, you know, to this event because she doesn't like crowds and she won't come with me to a baseball game and she doesn't like this or she has to stop to wash her hands every, you know, five minutes. Then I could say, okay, this is something that is currently affecting her and I could see you being concerned. But not to say that this might not have flare-ups, right? So I do think he has to be prepared that there might be times, and that's how this type of thing happens, where when you're doing the work, when you're taking care of yourself, when you're,

you know, practicing all the techniques that you've learned and taking medication or whatever you're prescribed and doing the work, you can be good. But if she, you know, if a life's circumstance changes or she takes her finger off the pulse of things for a little while, she might have a flare up. And that's where I would guide the conversation for the two of them. It's like right now, this is fine. Like whatever's happening right now. If this, if you happen to have like a flare up, which I know sometimes happens, we need to make sure that we're communicating and that you're going to take care of yourself and get back to doing the things that you need to do. Yeah, no, I think that's like the right way to go about it.

I think there's this fear almost like among a lot of men that I've seen emails from or spoken to about like, because to me the rational, it's like, okay, she's great now, date her. And then if it becomes a situation that you can handle, you can revisit that. I feel like so many men and maybe this is like a part of the email that he's not addressing directly are like afraid to like the idea of like, you can date and go forward and move forward with someone. And then if something changes, like you can always change your mind. You can always leave.

You can always like in any point. Like even if you're married, even if you're, you know, together 20 years. People like break up all the time. I think there's this sense of like if it's not exactly, if I can't guarantee that it's not exactly the same as it is now forever, then like I'm not going to go there. Right. I almost feel like the bigger commitment, like there's these levels of commitment. There's like defining the relationship and then there's like moving in and then there's engagement.

And I feel like the biggest one really is having kids because that's the only one that you literally can't undo. Right. Where you're in your life. Yes. Right. And they're the parent of your child, which is a big deal and choosing someone to be the parent that has decision making power and influence emotionally and otherwise over your kids. So that's really where the biggest decision is, someone that you're going to actually share a child with. And I think that that's his concern.

And I get that because it's kind of like once you have the mother of your child, let's say she has a baby and then she becomes like extremely anxious and won't let anybody come near it or she, you know, whatever might happen. And he's now like she's not functioning. He's taking care of his kid and a newborn by himself, and she's not doing well. I think that's probably his like worst case scenario fear of like she's not functioning and he's like parenting two kids by himself. Or she has to go off the medication because she's having a kid and then it's right. Or it seems like he's really playing it out like fully down the line. Yeah.

Which look, I give him credit. I think like you said, a lot of people are afraid of like, well, if I get in this and I say all the things and I love you and we're in it and we're packed. passionate and we're doing this, I don't want to hurt this person if there's something that I could have seen coming that ends up being, you know, the whole like, well, if that was a problem for you, why don't you tell me? I say it earlier. Right.

Right. Yeah. Which I get, but it sounds like it's not a problem at all. And I feel like everyone, like they're not going to meet someone who doesn't have, especially if you're at the age where you've had a kid, so I'm assuming they're a little bit older. If you've met someone who's been like on this earth for a while, they're not going to come with like absolutely nothing that you have to deal with. I totally agree.

And you could have someone that has something that comes out of completely nowhere. And he's trying to like minimize risk to himself and his child. And I get that. But I don't think there's enough here to say that this one is so much more risky than a woman. And I've talked to people like this all the time. They're going along. They're happy, go lucky. They lose a parent suddenly.

Right. And it knocks them off their ass and they're depressed and they're in bed. and they, you know, really aren't functioning well. Like, that could happen to anybody. Yeah, I think this one doesn't seem like it's, you know, there are mental illnesses that are more extreme that do seem like they would affect you or a child if they're not under control. This doesn't sound like it's one of them. Yeah.

I mean, I think you see, and again, like exactly like what you said, like you could date someone who has nothing and then maybe they become very depressed or they become, you know, they develop some sort of disorder. So there's really no way to fully protect yourself against like anything that might come up in the future. It's like sort of a tall order for committing to someone. And maybe also because this guy is divorced, it sounds like, you know, he has the 50. He's like maybe there's an increased fear of like going down the wrong path again because he's, he did that and it didn't work out. Yes.

And trying to control for every factor that he can. when I think all you can really do is say, I want to make sure I can communicate with this person. That's very important because that's kind of like the silver bullet against anything that comes your way is that they're able to be introspective and communicate. And once you have that, then you have to say, okay, we're going to communicate through whatever troubles come our way. We're going to try our best. I'm going to be supportive and try my best to be helpful and help her get the treatment that she

needs if she ever needs it again. And I'm also going to trust that if I try that long enough and I put myself into this and I do the best that I can and I still am not happy, then I can end it. Right. Which is not ideal, but like you said, it's not, you know, I think you could, it might be good for them to go through something that makes her anxious before they decide to have a kid together and see how they handle it. So go for it. Let us know how it goes. All right, let's do a betcha assist. I really like this one. Do you want to read it? Yeah, I'll read this. Hey, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Love the show and the dynamic you guys have. I'll get right into it.

One of my best friends is an entrepreneur, or at least she's trying to be. In the past, she tried selling pajama sets and started another side business selling earrings. To support her, I purchased some earrings. I wasn't much of a fan of the PJs. Anyway, she gave up on both. Fast forward. She recently decided to start another business selling shoes. For the time being, she's only, going to sell four different models of shoes. To be completely honest, they're not my cup of tea. I wouldn't wear any of them, but I do kind of feel bad if I don't support her. I was planning on buying a pair of pair of them. Does it make me a bad friend if I don't buy a pair of shoes? Should I buy them and sell them on Poshmark? This may not be the last business she endeavors on.

How supportive can I be? Would love some insight, a wannabe supportive betch. This is funny. Do you have any friends that do those online selling? things like makeup and skincare and you know i don't think that i know anyone who sells stuff i guess that would be like me like i have you know what i mean like i have you're the problem you know i have books and like we sell products at badges and like all that other stuff or like we have shows that you could listen to like i would say of all my friends i have the most like directly accessible like if my friends are lawyers like there's not many ways that i can support like what am i going to hire them to like do a corporate something.

Right. Totally. So I think for maybe that would be me, I guess would be the example of the entrepreneur that people feel the need to support. And it's funny actually like I guess in that realm like we'd have these books coming out or like and it'd be like really I was always like, oh, it's so nice that if my siblings or a friend like went out and bought the book because I would give them a book for free if I like saw them if they want, but it's really not about them.

It's about, you know, they want to like show you that they're supportive. And to me, I would say like, I've never been like counting the friends who bought or not bought. Like I've never really thought about that. If they did buy it, I would think like, oh, that's pretty nice. But if they didn't, I wouldn't be like putting them on my list of people who didn't buy the book. You know, we have like things we can, we have a podcast right now that you can subscribe to. Do you expect all of your friends to subscribe to the show? Right.

Not really. So I think it's like a nice thing, but I don't think it's necessary. And I also think there's a lot of ways that you can show someone that you're supportive that aren't buying things if you don't want to buy them. Totally. Yeah, I could see that. I mean, I do think, and it's an example of like buying the book, I mean, maybe shoes are more expensive, but it's like, all right, it's like $16 for this book. I'm just going to buy it because

I want, one, because like I love you and I want to have this book in my house because I'm proud of you and I think it's great and like, you know, I'm going to read it and I'm going to like feel warm feelings towards you. But I think the problem this listener is having is that it's like several different things that all seem kind of different and she's going to feel like it's going to be another thing and another thing and I'm going to end up with all this crap that I don't really want. Right. However, I think if you can afford it, and we always talk about, or I've talked about, the whole culture of like you get a wedding shower gift and an engagement gift and a baby gift

and like all these gifts that have to do with starting a family where it's like, this is a nice way to say, I'm going to support you in a different direction that doesn't have to do with you getting married and starting a family, that there's like other ways that I can support. So I think if you have the money, buy a pair of shoes and figure out what to do with them later. Don't sell them. She might see that. If you're going to buy them, you've got to find somewhere to or you could buy them for someone you think might have that taste. Right. Yes, as a gift. Yeah. I totally agree. Or I mean, I'm not saying you have to or don't, which is fine. But if you have the money and they're not that expensive, it's kind of like buying someone of,

There's not such a thing in our culture that like when you get a new job, your friends buy you a present. But I think that would be nice to kind of be like, we can celebrate things other than this one particular track. Exactly, which is so like out. Like, do you know what I mean? All those gifts were sort of made around a society where like women mostly didn't have jobs and they were, you know, that was kind of all they were doing was getting married

and having kids. It's like, I'm getting married and I need someone to buy me a pan so I can make my husband. Right. Yeah. And it's very much like not the case. It's like it's sort of that all those, that gift giving practice is really rooted in societal norms that don't really exist anymore.

So I think that's a great point. Like instead of getting a gift for someone every time they have a baby for her, it could be like every time she starts a new business. Yes. She'll have like six kids is the equivalent of how many different products she's selling. But whatever. Yeah. Those are her six babies and you can support them.

No, I think it's nice. I don't think it's like mandatory, but I agree with you. It's like if you can afford it and it seems like an easy thing to do to show someone that you're like you have their back or you like are happy for them. No, but I get it. The earrings are like tiny. So it's like, okay, I could just buy these and shove them in a drawer somewhere. The shoes you're like, I have to look at them.

Be like, what? I'm never wearing these. but I have to like keep right she just to be like yeah and then they take up a lot of space and then like she's probably worried about her whole house becoming this right you know just filled with stuff her friends um entrepreneurial ventures yeah I would say I agree with you if they're I don't know how I don't know how they're priced maybe they're like 200 bucks if they're if they're inexpensive I think you could buy them if not you could say you could just send her a note and say like I love what you're doing I love some at it.

I love the aspect of whatever on the one aspect that you do like. I think that would be really nice. Like I think that's almost somehow can be more important, like encouraging words. Totally. I love that. There's nothing better than like getting a little card in the actual mail with your friend's handwriting on it that says like, I'm so proud of you. Like way to go.

You know? Yeah. Something that's just like a little note that acknowledges what she's doing. and then you don't have to have the shoes and you don't, you know, have to spend the money. So that might be a good alternative too. Yeah. I think that's a great middle ground. Might be more.

So for some people, that's more effort than buying something. Right. Really depends on like who you are. Right. Let's do some intentions. I'll read them. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, thank you for all you do.

I have started and never finished many emails to you for the past year. And now all the pieces have fallen for me to finally sit down and write this. I became part of a loving relationship over five years ago. Two years ago, we got engaged and this spring we got married. Five months later, we're getting divorced. For contacts, both Jewish, I'm 30 and he's 35 from a fairly prominent Jewish family in the community. I love my husband so much, but we have been unhappy for quite a while. It's partially related to some of his personal health issues that impact our love life,

which I won't get into for his privacy. But more than that, I feel like somewhere along the way we stopped being partners and became roommates. A year before our wedding, I told my mom I wanted to call it off, but I changed my mind mainly out of fear and embarrassment. A month before our wedding, my fiance tried to end it, saying he would never make me happy and we should end it before we got married. I couldn't handle it and begged him to stay because I couldn't fathom calling the wedding off a month before.

But now, five months into marriage, and it's just not right. I love him and we aren't happy, and I know we both deserve more than a mediocre life. I want to make this change before we're even further down the line and kids are involved. I raised it with my husband and he agreed that it should happen, but is upset that we didn't do this before. I think he's worried about the embarrassment of it all. I've worked through that piece in therapy already, but he hasn't. And also about the expense. I guess I'm looking for both advice and an intention for getting through the rocky path ahead.

It feels so hard because we both do really love each other, but it just doesn't feel right and I don't want to prolong this for the sake of optics. My questions. One. How do I navigate a divorce with love? We've been so kind to each other thus far, only. two days. But I know it can get so cold and I desperately want to hang on to the love. He has given so much to my life and has been such a part of my story. I don't want this to end with bitterness or a feeling that we wasted our own time, but rather that we had a beautiful,

magical journey together that needed to end. Two, I'm 30 and I've lived the entire life I wanted to have already. Nice Jewish, well-off boyfriend turned fiancee turned husband. Now that I realize this isn't what I want, how do I find what I do want? How much time should I take just enjoy my alone time before I try to look for another partner? perhaps more for you up, but how do I navigate dating as such a young divorcee? Three, what is an intention I can give myself to help me know I made the right choice, even when it would be easier to be content with the life I had? Four, lastly, this will be embarrassing and people will talk.

How do I stay above the gossip and remember we're making the right choice and no one knows why we got here, nor is it their business? Thank you so much. Haven't stopped crying on a twilight, and the flight attendants are very concerned, fetch. Oh, this is hard. This is a lot. And there's a lot to unpack. She has all these different questions, which is, you know, I think outlines a lot of the fears that people have.

Yeah. It's a lot to get through for unpacking her entire divorce is a lot on us for one email. But I guess we could try. Yeah. Should we attack these questions? Yeah. This sounds like what would be done over a year in actual therapy sessions. Totally.

All right. Let's see if we could do a crash course in divorce. Okay. How does she navigate the divorce with love? She doesn't hate. Seems like she has like generally positive feelings for this person. She just doesn't want to be married to them anymore. Yeah.

And I think he's kind of on the same page, which is the secret ingredient when it comes to navigating divorce with love. You know, I think when one person wants it and the other person doesn't, that's when it's, can be very difficult to be kind because you're. somebody's really hurt and longing and fighting and, you know, kicking and screaming. It seems like the ego is like out of the way. Yes. Yes.

And it seems like, you know, they're both on the same page that maybe they probably should have done this. And from what she says, it sounds like she thinks that he's more concerned about what other people are going to think and kind of that regretful, I wish we would have done this sooner. But I think if she can remember and maybe remind him that this is, is going to be way easier than like we just were talking about after they have kids, which just makes that. I work with couples all the time that are having difficulties.

And once you have kids, the issue becomes now, do I want to be separated from my kids half the time more than I want to not live with this person? Right. Or date someone else. Yeah. Right. So it's like now you're involved and you have to. to make a choice between like living in the house with your kids all the time and you know finding a

partner that you're really happy with so this is the time to do it so i can give her that reassurance that yeah hindsight 2020 maybe they should have done it a year before the wedding when she first started having doubts i think a lot of people when you're that far in feel like all right we could try this let's try to make it work but the more you keep kicking the can down the road i think the only harder it's going to be to find what you really want. Yeah. And I think this is a really, I think she should like be very proud of herself because I think this is a really hard thing to do that a lot of people would just be like, all right, well,

I'm already here. Like we had the whole wedding. Like, you know, everyone else is married. I don't really want to go out and like date again. Like I think it's so much easier just to like she said sort of accept this kind of mediocre her life that she like, you know, could be okay with. So I want to give her a lot of props. I think that's like a very brave thing to do. Yes. And they live in a tight-knit community and everyone's going to be talking. But I think if she can stand in exactly what you just said, her own pride,

that she's making the right decision because she's doing it now versus waiting and waiting and waiting until she's like depressed and can't take it anymore and has to like, you know, um, decide to divorce with kids in the house or when there's more, you know, time. I think she could stand and know, even though other people might, I think the problem with divorce is a lot of people feel like it's a failure. Like I failed. I did. I, this was the point. The point was to, you know, sign these papers and be together forever. And if we don't do that, I have failed and it's embarrassing and I did something wrong and other people could make it work and I couldn't and a lot of those negative thoughts. But I think if you can zoom out a little bit and just see

this whole process as part of this journey that you didn't, you thought you knew which direction it was going and it's taken a turn for a different direction. It doesn't mean that this is the wrong way to go just because it didn't go the way that you thought it was going to go. It's just the way that it's going. And if you can just relax into like, I didn't, you thought you knew, but you really didn't. The universe knew how this was going to go. You had no idea. It's almost the same thing like with fertility.

It's kind of like, okay, I thought this is how it's going to go. We have sex. We get pregnant. We have a baby. Yeah. Doesn't mean that anything's wrong. It just means that you didn't see the whole journey. You saw part of it.

You imagined the rest of it. And now you realize, okay, I'm still on this same journey. It's just taking a turn that I didn't know that it was going to take. Just a detour. A detour, exactly. And who knows what beautiful things you might find on that detour and beautiful things you might learn on that detour. So I think if they both agree and they both, maybe they could have some of these

conversations once the dust settles so that that might help with the kindness, loving separation piece. if they can, because they both have the same goal, which is let's feel better about this. We did it together. We made these decisions together. Let's both leave here feeling good about it. So I think they could have one of these conversations. It's like, yeah, it's way better to do it now than wait.

And we made the right choice. And I think the more you do that, like to jump to her fourth question about people talking, like, people are only going to talk as much as like as how dramatic you make it. Like if the story that you're both telling is like, got married, realized it wasn't the right decision for us, the both of us. And so we decided to just, you know, cut our losses and move on. That's not that interesting of a story. I don't think people are going, I mean, it's an interesting story. It's like something people will mention to each other, but it's not so salacious that I think it's going to be this huge thing if you guys are cool with each other. Yeah. It's going to be a flash

in the pan. It's going to be a big thing once everyone finds out about it right at first for like literally a day or two. It's like when celebrities break up. And, you know, if I'm ever interested, like, you know, when Taylor Swift broke up with her boyfriend and I'm like Googling trying to figure out what happened, it's like, well, we just kind of just agreed to break up. I'm like, oh, okay, that was boring. Done here. Yeah. Next, move on. Yeah. It's only the ones where people are like there's some, again, where someone's trying to get back at someone or spreading something. and I think that's really when it becomes this huge thing. And this is a story of two people or it didn't work out.

Yep, that's it. And if you leave it at that, it's going to come. It's going to be in people's minds and then they're going to move along with their day because it's not that exciting. I totally agree. All right. So we did one, we did four. The dating as a divorcee piece.

Do you cover that on you up? I think, you know, to me, a divorce with no kids is just like a serious. relationship. Yeah. A breakup from a very serious relationship. Again, not, especially if it's like the one she's saying where it's like we got married, we both kind of realized we weren't right for each other. We both wanted to find someone we were more compatible with.

That's, I would date someone with that story. I'm sure you would too. I don't think that's that crazy. And I think that like I would just mention it as the way that I would talk about it the same way that she spoke about it to us. And it actually shows like, okay, I committed to this thing. I went through with it because I committed to it and we tried, you know, for five months. And then I also realized better to move on before we make this situation any worse and bring

kids into it. So I think it was a very, you know, she can come out of it feeling like she really did the right thing. It's not like she jumped ship the second she started having doubts about it. She did give it some time fortunately or unfortunately or whatever. that time took her into the period where she actually got married. And that's a hard time to make this move. It's hard to make this move at any time after a five-year relationship.

But when there's wedding invitations that are out and plans that are being made, it's a really tough spot to do that. And I think a lot of people that end up divorced probably were in her position before they got divorced, where they were having some doubts about it. Maybe they gave it a little more time, stuck it. out for a little bit longer, but I don't think that really serves you if you kind of feel like you know that this is the right decision. Right. And they were both not really sure they wanted it in the first place. So yeah, I think that's, and I would just date, I would date a lot of different people

as this person. Because like it sounds like she doesn't really know what she wanted. So this is a great opportunity to find out. Totally. It sounds like there was something in like a romantic, passionate spark thing that wasn't there. Like they were more like roommates. I think she wants someone that she feels, you know, they were very young when they met. She's like 25 or so. So maybe she just kind of was on that track of like, okay, fine. This is like a lesson for people.

Find boyfriend, get engaged. Like she said, this is, I thought I wanted all this. I got all this. And now I realize I don't want it. Like maybe zooming out when you're 25 and being like, why do I want this life so badly? What do I really want about this life? What do I want to feel that I think this life is going to make me feel instead of just getting tunnel vision, getting on this train to marriage and kids, and then realizing, whoa, wait, that's not

what I really want. What I really want is romance and passion and something different. So, yeah. And then I did write an intention for her that kind of can help her. And I think this can help anybody that sort of feels like there's a failure in the path that they intended. So I wrote, I was always on this journey. I've just become aware that the path has changed. And that's okay. So she started this journey that was her life that ended up being, I met my, I met someone at 25, got married, had doubts, got, you know, had doubts, got, you know,

had doubts, got married, I guess, divorced, dated other people, moved on. There's, there's, whole rest of your journey that is yet to unfold and you can't pause the tape here and be like failure right it's just part one part of the story it's just one part of the story the path changed from what you thought it was but that was your imaginary path you decided that the path was going to be one thing and the whole time it wasn't that thing you just didn't find out until now so that makes it I hope feel kind of like everything that I do is just an unfolding journey and can help you look at it as like, who said it was had to go in that particular direction. Okay. Well, good luck. Good luck. Thanks for writing in. Let's do some triggers. You want to read the first one? Sure. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I went to

the body shop to get a hair product that I researched online, but it wasn't available online, so I went in store and found it. I have naturally straight hair. I have. and the product I chose was for curly hair, but I wanted it because my hair is thinning and I heard castor oil helps. The cashier who has curly hair says, this is for curly hair, like my texture and gestures to her hair.

Then she says, you can buy it, but I just want to make sure. I said, I know, but I wanted it for the castor oil. She said, you can find that at Whole Foods. I said, well, my husband has curly hair and we're both going to use it. She said, did I offend you? I said no and continued to purchase it,

but now I think I might be offended. Why discourage a purchase if you're in sales? Why judge a paying customer at all? Would love to know your thoughts. I feel like the cashier was trying to save her some money. Yeah. I agree. I thought she was like trying to do her a favor.

I thought this was like, I don't know what's offensive about it, I guess. Like, that she made, I guess she felt she made her insecure about her purchase. Right. Right. So it's kind of like if even you are telling me this is like she went all. the way to the place to get it. So she was probably like, okay, I'm here. I knew what I was coming for. I knew that it was for curly hair. And now you're making me feel like maybe I should just get up and leave and go home, which feels like a big waste of time and would make me feel kind of stupid.

So I'm buying it anyway. But now I realize that maybe I should have just gone to Whole Foods and bought the castor oil. And, you know, I'm already here. So like, I'm just going to buy it. Right. Now I feel worse about it than I did before. I get that. Okay. But I totally agree. I think the cashier was probably trying to, I appreciate that. You know, there's like a cheaper version of this, right? Totally. I actually think the cashier was cool and trying to let her know. But I've also been in that position where I'm like at the place and buying the thing and I have my mindset that I'm buying this thing. And then somehow it's like more expensive than I thought it was or I thought it was on sale and it's not. And I'm kind of like,

all right, I'm here. I'm just going to buy this thing because that was the plan and I'm going through with the plan. But I think you're right. She was the thing that she was offended by was that she was like making her aware that she probably was buying the wrong product. Right. And I think that's a good point that you're like she went all the way there. Like she wasn't just like perusing and picked it out. She probably would have maybe not bought it if she was doing that.

But she like spent all the time and energy like going to get this thing and now she feels stupid. But yeah, I wouldn't say, I think the cashier not knowing that, so like the cashier knew that she did all that research and did whatever. I think she was trying to help a girl out. So I don't really feel like it's particularly triggering. I would give it like a two. Yeah, I would give it a two also. But somehow I do get it.

It's like when someone's convincing you out of buying something and their whole job is to get you to buy it, you know, it's like if you try something on a store and they're like, ooh, don't get that. Don't get it. It's like, wait, if you're telling me not to get it, it must look really bad. But I also do appreciate when someone's like, you don't really need this product before I bought it. It's not like she purchased it and then she said that. Like I was at, we were looking for like an alarm system.

I think we went to Best Buy and the guy was like, you don't really need like this big one that you're about to buy. Like you could get this like cheaper one. I was like, great. I don't know. I guess maybe it's different because like. I don't know. That seems similar. Yeah.

No, it is. I think it is similar. I actually love when a salesperson will discourage you because then you feel like they're really telling the truth about the thing. But yeah, I give it a low rating. I think it's okay. It was an afternoon. You probably didn't need that product. You probably could.

Next time you'll buy the castor oil from Whole Foods. But look, maybe something about the castor oil and this product works for you. You already have it. You did it. I wouldn't give it too much more thought. Agreed. She should move on and so will we. Okay.

Move right along. All right. Here's one more. This morning I was driving to work down a neighborhood road, but more of a main road in the neighborhood rather than one of the smaller roads that come off it. The speed limit is 25 and to be honest, I was probably going closer to 30. As I approached the sidewalk, I saw there was a man standing about three feet into the road with his dog looking for oncoming traffic.

I came to a stop that probably seemed to be. because while I wasn't going that fast, he was hidden behind a car, so didn't have the usual amount of space to gradually stop. At this point, I'm sitting in my car at a complete stop, and he gets furious. He is shouting at the car, waving his arms, and even started walking towards me at one point. I was in such shock, I froze. Then, when he was in the middle of the crosswalk, he turned back, took out his phone and took a picture of me from about four feet away from my window and my license plate. I was shocked. I'm not an angry person at all, but afterward, I could I couldn't stop thinking about it for the next 30 minutes and felt furious.

It felt so strange in my body since I can't remember the last time I was mad at anyone, yet I truly wanted nothing good for this man. I just kept saying to myself, he's got a lot of stuff happening in his life to be this angry. Sincerely, maybe I need a thicker skin. What comes to mind for me in this one is like all the physical activation that they're both feeling. Like this guy probably thought for a second he was like maybe going to get hit by a car.

Like maybe he had that moment of like, whoa, this car is stopping short. Coming at me back. Sure. Coming at me fast. Seems like it's stopping. She's stopping short. It's kind of like a threatening type situation. And he got activated.

And instead of like taking a deep breath and thinking like, oh, she stopped. She just didn't realize. She didn't mean it. It was an accident that, you know, whatever. He had to release his strong emotions of anger towards her. As an act of like revenge, I guess. Yes. Yes.

Or just like that, that's why. I really believe in like emotional energy as like a real energy that needs a place to live. And so it was in him. And it's very hard to just hold that inside. So he looked around, found the target and unleashed the energy, negative energy onto her. Which, I mean, she doesn't say in the beginning, as you read it over the second time, it was a crosswalk. So like, crosswalks are sticky because like,

If there's not a lot of signs that there's a crosswalk, they're easy to miss. Go right faster. But the idea is that when there's a crosswalk, you can just walk across and everyone's supposed to stop. So. Yeah. I get him being like a little peeved that someone like that he felt scared. I don't think like the act of feeling a little like slow down is like insane. I think to maybe like the fact that he.

Taking the picture. that nothing did happen and he was like taking the picture and doing that. And as someone who I'm not the best driver out there and so I have been yelled at by my fair share of people when you know like not doing something that they thought was the way to do something. But like totally by no intention of my own, I can see why she'd be like, is there a reason to make me feel like I am like the worst person you've ever met? Like it was like I went a little faster than I should have. I stopped before I got there.

Like, I'm sorry. Well, that's the other piece of this that I agree with. And this happens to people all the time is I'm kind of like, if I say I'm sorry and I own up that I made a mistake and everybody's fine. At that point, it should be over. So like, I've been in that situation too where I'm like, I'll wave or make a face. That's like an I'm sorry face or, you know, whatever it is. And at that point, it's kind of like, okay, you're okay. I acknowledge that it was me.

I think what happens and where road rage happens is when you can't see someone's face too is something. Right. Like you don't know. There's something. It's interesting, the ego piece of it. Like if you think that the other person doesn't feel bad or they think they were right and you think that they were wrong. Now it's like a battle versus like if you could just be like, um, if she could have even just rolled down the window and been like, I'm so sorry. Totally my fault.

I wonder if he would have acted the same way and if he did then it's kind of I mean him like kind of coming at her is scary taking a picture of her license plate What's he going to do with that? What's he going to do with that? Nothing. That just made him feel like he had some... Right. He was trying to scare her in that way.

Right, right, right. I think, yeah, that's a good point. I think that a lot of these driving escalations could probably be like this road rage stuff could be de-escalated if you could clearly see someone's face. Like you would in any other interaction. Like someone doesn't hold the door.

Like you'd be, oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't see you. Yes. Someone steps on your foot. Like, I'm sorry. I didn't, like, you know what I mean? Yes. People let that stuff go much more often than this.

I think because there's like, you're right next to the person who's done the events and they just immediately apologize. Totally interesting point about road rage that I never thought of. Is that like why it gets bad is because you, there's no. There's no communication other than like, if you cut someone off, you don't see their face. Right. We should have like an I'm sorry light that like you could pop on like you do something wrong with like a sad face on it.

I actually really like that. They probably don't do it because they want to encourage you to like fuck up. So you can like, you don't want to make it so easy to apologize that you're more likely to just like do the wrong thing. Right. They should have one for when you know, there's like the line to get off at the exit and then the person like basically drives to the person. like basically drives to the front of the line and then tries to cut it.

Yes. Yes. Like, but if I had that light, I would just do it every time. Right. No, totally. That's really funny. But yeah, I think that that's part of why these things escalate because you can't just kind of be like, oh, so sorry. You know, or like, oh, are you okay? And that's why people don't cut real lines because there's a real person in front of them

that they would have to like look in the face and be like, oh, I didn't even realize this was the line. I'm just going to get in right here. Like imagine waiting on like a real standing line for something. Right. And someone just slowly walks up the side of the line and like scoots it. That's why people don't do it. It's so true.

It's like the lack of communication while you're in a vehicle that makes these things worse. But in this case, and I've done this a lot of times and I'm a big fan of this. I will like apologize so profusely that it like leaves the person no choice. but to be like, okay, fine. Right. Like what else am I supposed to do at that point? Yeah, if you can manage to like get them to see you. See you.

Yes. Him coming at her, taking the picture, all that, I think feels pretty aggressive. So I would, you know, raise it a little bit. Maybe like a four. I agree. Four seems good for this because I do think it's kind of like she's partly upset because she is insecure about how she was going a little too fast, which. You know, I've no judgment.

I've done that before. But I agree. Four seems right to me. All right. Well, maybe we could start a new trend of car communication, like little emoji lights that you could pop on the top of your, like a taxi sign. Or like something with your hand, some motion with your hand that you stick out the window that's like the opposite of the finger to show people that you apologize.

I would just do it while I was, again, cutting that huge line of people getting off the exit. Again, finding a way to take advantage of the system. Is that the trend with me? I'm saying just like the Taylor Swift tickets. This is all leading you to a new judgment of me as a person. No, it's all right. You've done it before. I know you've had.

I know you have flaws and I accept you anyway. Okay. All right. That's our time. I'm triggered by that. Okay. That's our time. Great work today.

Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morelas Pico, and Rebecca Sous MacKhan. Editing by Basilio Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to Oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches