Oversharing - How To Allow Yourself To Really Feel Your Feelings

Episode Date: July 5, 2022

Jordana and Naomi start the week with some tips for allowing yourself to feel your feelings and stop avoiding them with distractions. Naomi offers a great explanation of why it’s okay to lean into the physical feelings of emotion (painful as they may be). Then a listener writes in to ask how to cope with a recent failed relationship and find a sense of hope for the future. They examine a list of “qualities we want to find in a relationship” that she received from her therapist. Should we all examine our list of qualities that we’re looking for in a partner, or is it better to let things come naturally? Then another listener emails with a challenging Betchicist question: at what point is it okay to ask your future spouse to start therapy before getting married? In this case, is it fair to ask her boyfriend to confront his complicated feelings toward his mother? Finally, they close with a game of Triggered featuring a trio of tense situations resulting in anxiety, embarrassment, and a little jealousy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And I'm recording from San Francisco where I have a U-Up live show tonight.

So I'm very excited about that. A busy day. Yeah. excited about that. I'm nervous, but excited. Oh, you're nervous. You still get nervous. Yeah. I get nervous. I'm, what I've realized about myself, I'm very introverted. So there's like a thing where like if I'm spending too much time like out and socializing and like being on, I get like a very anxious, intense need to like retreat. Totally. You know what I mean? I'm already like thinking about like it'll be nice to like be back in my hotel room alone. Right. I'm picking out the pajamas that I'm going to put on when I walk back in after the show's over.

laying them out on the bed with my face mask and my eye mask. Yeah, totally. I think when you put anyone's out of their comfort zone for that long, you almost might as well be running a marathon, the exhaustion that it takes to be like emotionally out of your comfort zone for a long period of time. Once I get up there, it's actually fun and it's actually like a good time and it's actually not that hard. It's just more the anticipation of it, which like thinking about it just makes me a little anxious.

Totally. I remember the first, when I went to go see you up live in New York when I was still living in New York, and I walked into this venue that was just enormous. And there was a line of people outside and all these people filing in. And there was like a balcony and just like, you know, I don't know how many people were in there, but it was probably like a thousand or so I feel like, felt like a lot of people. And I know you and I was like, how, what is she going to do? What is she going to do?

There are so many people here. Like, how is this going to happen? And you really, you know, you just like turned it on. The show was amazing. Everybody loved it. But I could see how it's like not exactly your happy place. I mean, I'm sure it is in some ways. Like you're excited in the adrenaline.

Yeah. And then I feel good that I did it. And I feel like, okay, like did something that was not necessarily the most comfortable or natural. And it's nice to be up there with Jared who's like does this all the time and loves it. And like he's like. Totally. That is his happy place.

Right. Right. And I know that I can sort of like, if there's like a silent. And I mean, my fear is like, oh, there's like, it goes weirdly or there's like a silence or like, I know that he knows more than anyone else how to like create a good live experience. So it feels safe to have him up there too. Totally. I could see that.

Yeah, you guys are a great team. It's a really fun show. But I'm very impressed. Like I looked at you very differently, I think after. Oh, wow. Yeah. Seeing you in that context because, you know, I just never, I never really thought that you would end up doing something like the podcasting yes it's like chatting one-on-one but being on stage in front

of that many people is not how I pictured that you would end up but you seem you're really natural at it seems great and you guys I'm uh I'm excited for you so you're going to do another one tonight that'll be fun and John's going to be there our brother John right yeah he's going to be there it's going to be a great show I'm very excited about it I was thinking actually you know I forgot to mention this before but we were talking off the show but I think this is kind of an interesting topic again, I've had a kind of like weird couple weeks dealing with some stuff. And I've been thinking like it reminds me a lot of the emails that we would get about like dealing with a breakup where it's like, how do you get over a breakup? Or how do you get over something? Anything bad that's kind of like happening. It's kind of like done. Like how do you get over it? It's nice to be out doing things because you're like, okay, I'm like not thinking about it. But then when you have downtime, you're like thinking about it. You start like mentally like you get your intrusive thoughts and you're dwelling on it.

And then, but when you're out and about, like, it's not so bad. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're having a drink with a friend. You're, I've been going on a lot of hikes with our brother John. It's been, like, great. But it kind of makes me think, like, what's the healthier move? Is the healthier move to, like, sit in it and, like, go for it and, like, feed into, like, the sadness? Or is the better move?

And again, I think about this because I think it's most commonly occurs with, like, breakups. Yes. Or is the better move to, like, go out there and start dating and, like, meeting new people, and like going out with your friends. Like what, what is the way to like healthfully deal with like something that you're going through? Totally.

That's a great question. And I think it's like that's at the crux of so much of what people struggle with. Distraction is great. If it's a healthy distraction, if it's like drugs or alcohol or sex that doesn't make you feel good or other unhealthy things, then it's not. But it's like a little bit of alcohol.

Well, a little bit moderation, alcohol moderation. So those types of. distractions are good or even listening to a podcast as a distraction or reading a book. So those things are good, but I do think you can't just have distraction. I think you have to allow yourself the time to feel your feelings. And I would love to talk about this more in today's episode because I don't think a lot of people know what it means to feel their feelings. Feeling your feelings isn't ruminating about what

went wrong in the relationship, like sitting by yourself and crying and ruminating. Is that, right, that's what I think of is feeling your feelings. Like just sitting there and like allowing yourself to feel like terrible is like kind of Right. What I picture feeling your feelings as. You might feel terrible, but you're not thinking terrible thoughts. So it's kind of, or if you are thinking terrible thoughts, you're aware of the fact that they are thoughts. So I think the difference is a lot of people aren't able to separate themselves from their thoughts.

Like you so much identify that what I am thinking is who I am. So I think part of feeling your feelings is like stop being so interested in everything that your mind has to say. So feeling your feelings is like, what do I feel in my body? What does a tear feel like rolling down my cheek? What does a lump in my throat feel like and just being quiet enough in your mind to actually realize the physical sensations of grief or loss and what those are? I think we get so busy trying to make them go away that you don't even make space to feel

what grief feels like. Like if I told you, this happens a lot of my patients where I'll say, if I told you to go and run five miles and when you've never run before in your life and that's going to cure you and that's going to make you feel better and do that every day for the next month and you'll feel better, a lot of people would be able to do it. But if I said, just feel the lump in your throat, feel the butterflies in your stomach, Like feel the headache that occurs when you start to become upset and just sit with those feelings and don't explain them away. Don't try to make a plan for how you're going to feel better.

Just feel it. It's very difficult. To answer your question, I think you need a little combination of allowing yourself the time to really feel and sit and quiet and like grieve, but not plan how to make it go away and not strategize why it happened and not ruminate on the past, but just feel your feelings. and then go distract yourself with friends and podcasts and books. So it's interesting that you say like feeling your feelings almost is about like a physical feeling rather than an emotional feeling. You're saying like the lump in your throat or the tear on your face. Like to me it's like it almost feels very separate from like the thought of the breakup

or the bad thing that happened or the law. You know what I mean? Like it's like doesn't, are you actually thinking about that or are you thinking about like a mind-body connection? that's where I'm saying. I think a lot of people confuse the thinking with the emotion, right? The thinking is like, what did I do wrong? How come he doesn't love me? What's the matter with me? Or even the thoughts that end up feeling worse, which is like, I'm never going to find someone again. So like conjuring up all this stuff that's not actually what's happening. What's actually happening is that's not helpful you're saying. That's not helpful. Like getting in your mind and predicting the future of whether or not you're going to end up alone. forever because this relationship didn't work out or predicting the future of, oh, I know he's going to start dating this girl or I know that girl that, you know, oh, he's probably going to go out with that one or I wonder what he's doing or all that. That's not, you don't want to reject that stuff either.

So I want to make that clear. You don't want to get into a place where you're like, stop thinking that or that's wrong or that's not the right way to be because that doesn't help either, like, judging your process, but just stepping away from your thoughts and noticing, okay, I'm predicting. my future right now. This is not what's upsetting me is not what I'm actually going through, which is the breakup right now in 2022. Now I'm getting upset about a virtual reality of being alone in 2032, which is not even what's happening. So, you know, just catching yourself and being upset about something that hasn't happened or something that happened already that you can't undo, but really just focusing on what is happening in my body. So emotions are very physical. People,

don't realize that enough or pay attention to that enough because the mind takes over and starts to try to cure it by thinking about it if that makes sense. No, it does. I really never thought about feeling your feelings that way. But that almost seems like an easier way to feel them because you don't have to like, when you think about feeling them, you have to like, in your mind, you're like, oh, I have to go there. You're saying like you don't really have to go there in that way because that's not even

helpful. It's more about just like feeling a pain in the moment. You can go to the place where you actually are, which is like, right now I'm feeling lonely or I'm feeling rejected or I'm feeling whatever that is. I use this example sometimes where whatever emotion you're feeling, and this is a good way to think about feeling your feelings. Let's say you're feeling lonely. Like I just took a loneliness pill and I'm going to read the pamphlet and on the outside of the pamphlet it says loneliness pill will cause the following physical effects. It will cause a lump in your throat. It will cause liquid to well up in your eyes and drip down your face. It will cause heaving and crying. It will cause butterflies in your stomach, potential nausea, headache, all the physical sensations that people get when they're going through, like a grief reaction.

But on the pamphlet, it says these effects will last anywhere between like, let's say, 20 and 45 minutes. So instead of judging your feelings and saying, oh, well, I wouldn't be feeling this way if that. Or I, you know, well, I'll prevent feeling this way again in the future if I do this or I date this type of person or I never do this again. You're just like, okay, I took this loneliness pill. It's going to take 45 minutes. I'm just going to sit here and wait non-judgmentally for this feeling to pass because that's what ends up happening anyway. Yeah.

And not trying to like explain it away or something like that. or like, or put it somewhere. Okay, I like that. So next time you're upset or anything, it could do it for anxiety. I just took an anxiety pill. And this anxiety pill is going to take 20 minutes to work its way through my system. My heart's going to raise. These are the sensations that I'm going to have.

And I don't have to figure them out. I don't have to think about them. I don't have to, you know, make a plan. I don't have to change my future to make this not happen again down the road. No, I'm just going to wait. Relax into the discomfort and wait for this feeling to pass. Right. There almost reminds me of like a workout class because you accept that in a workout class. Yes. I'm going to go into this like hit cardio class. It's going to be like pretty uncomfortable. I'm going to like, you know, it's going to feel kind of like not ideal. I'm going to be happy when it's over. I'm going to just lean into it. Right. And you're not thinking, well, if next time I, you know, wear these shorts instead of these shorts and maybe it won't hurt so much. Or next time if I, you're just going in there, you're accepting it. You know, it's going to suck.

for an hour and you're going to come out and it's going to be over. Our minds take over and sort of turn it into the avoidance of the feeling ends up taking over or the attempt to not feel that way again in the future it takes over and it gets you in your head, which doesn't change anything anyway. Right. It's still happening. Trying to understand it, it's not going to change the fact that you've been broken up with or that you're alone or that you're anxious. Yeah. No, I think that's a very helpful way to think about it. You don't try that. This leads us pretty nicely into our oversharing email, which is kind of similar in that vein. And guys, if you have an email that you want to send in, please email oversharing at Betches.com.

We're also taking voicemails. And yeah, just email us oversharing at Betches.com with any of your overshare questions or ethical dilemmas. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I'm 30 years old and it's looking like my live-in boyfriend of two and a half years and I will be splitting up. We have some differing values that we have not been able to resolve that continue to cause problems for us in the present. I've been experiencing overwhelming feelings of sadness and anger that we did not work out. I find myself feeling envious of people getting engaged and sometimes even cry because I want the same for myself.

Why does some people find their person so easily while others float from failed relationship to failed relationship, getting more confused and frustrated with each consecutive relationship that does not work out? When are all my hours of therapy listening to dating and relationship podcasts? and reading self-help books going to pay off for me. I have a really great therapist who gave me a sheet outlining qualities I should look for on a partner, see attached for your reference. However, I'm inclined to believe that person simply does not exist.

I feel absolutely hopeless about meeting a partner in each year that goes by. I lose hope of having kids one day too. Any thoughts on how to cope with my situation? I often feel like I'm all alone in my pain and that perhaps there may not be someone for everyone. I know this is a negative mindset, but I just don't. can't help how I feel. Thanks for all you do, loving this new podcast. I listen to every new episode during my Tuesday morning workout. Sincerely a sad girl forever. Oh, I know. That's such a

well, I will tell you, it is a sad sign off. She's in her feelings, but she's also, if you read this over, you'll find a lot of spaces where she's in her head. And I will say this. She is so not alone in this pain. There are, I don't know if you encounter this, but I encounter so many women and men in their 20s and 30s that are just really frustrated, sad, and fearful. I will underline fearful of not finding their person. Yeah. I mean, I was this person for sure.

Like I definitely felt a lot of anxiety when I was single that I was never going to meet someone and that I was going to be, you know, the only single friend and that I was going to be, alone forever and not everyone meets someone and then it was i would think about that very frequently and it was definitely a huge concern of mine so i think that this is extremely common like you said for you it must be interesting to speak to to these kinds of people because it's like how do you guarantee them that's that is the point to guarantee them that that's not the case or is it to have them not like you can't be and that was that thing with my therapist it's like he would try to do that I think to an extent.

He'd be like, you're an interesting, smart, attractive person. Like, you're going to meet someone. Like, it was almost like, you know what I mean? Is that, was that the point? I mean, I guess he was right. But it's kind of like, is that as helpful as saying, well, if you don't, you'll also be okay? Like, what's your go to in this sort of anxious situation, especially when it's like

anxiety about the future? Totally. Well, I think that this is a specific area because in your career is sort of like, if you work hard enough and you just dedicate yourself, you will. find success, like there's a pathway to making sure that you will get what you want for the most part in your career. And in love, it's something that, yeah, I do sometimes, you know, say, which I believe to be true for most people, all the things that your therapist said to you, just to provide enough of a safety blanket for the person to stop resisting, right? So I think what

happens is when you're like resisting the future that is out there for you, whatever it may be, whether it's you're going to meet someone tomorrow, you're going to meet someone when you're 40, or you're going to, you know, somewhere in between or not at all. You resisting whatever is going to unfold just persists. I think it ends up making the whole process that much. Creating a self-fulfilling prophecy almost. Like you become this person by like having so much fear about it. Well, I think it makes you very negative. I mean, this email reads very negative. And I like, obviously, I understand that like, she's in her own head and she's like that she's just feeling very negative and it's hard to take yourself out of that. Seeing emails from so many people dealing with dating issues,

like you do have to think, is it fun to date someone who writes an email like this and myself probably? And I'm sure they're not necessarily bringing that energy to a date, but there is a sense of like, if you go out with a good energy, you're more likely to like, and you believe it, you're more likely to see it happen. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and I think that's true. And look, she probably wrote this in a wave of negative emotion. So that's the other thing that I think is important to realize is that if you're a single and you don't want to be single, you're going to have these waves of fear.

I really think it boils down to fear. I'm afraid that I will never have the life that I want to have. So a big part of what I think is helpful is just to identify, get to the root of it. I am afraid that I will never find a life partner. Voice that fear. Say it out loud. And this woman probably wrote this when she was in the midst of this. And like I said, so she's taking a fear pill.

She just took her fear pill and she's writing this email when she took her fear pill. And you can see because she's, you know, just writing all of her basically fears about the fact that this doesn't exist and she's hopeless and all of that. But I think if you can, when you're having these waves of emotion or fearfulness, that two things. One, you can realize that it's going to come and it's going to pass and it doesn't determine who you are. It's not like I think some people get into this and they're like, and now I'm depressed. I'm a depressed person and I'm like a jeeted person. She signs it sad girl forever. Sad girl forever.

Exactly. She's sort of taking on unnecessarily or persona of someone that she does not need to be. Right. So this is a actually perfect example of being able to say, okay, I am not a sad girl forever. Right now, I am having a feeling of intense sadness. So I think there's a way to kind of separate yourself from your feelings and where you can sort of say, I'm afraid of ending up alone. And then you can separate a little bit by saying, right now I'm feeling afraid of ending up alone. And then you can separate even like one step further. And then you can separate even like one step further. like the untethered soul thing. We're like, I am aware right now of my feeling of fear of ending up alone. So you're sort of separating it. You're making it temporary and you're making it not your whole identity, sad girl forever. Right.

It's just a moment. You're depersonalizing it. Yes. Right. Instead of saying like this is who I am, saying this is how I'm feeling is very like, it's much more empowering. That implies you can change that you're not going to, you know what I mean? like I'm sad right now. I'm not going to be sad. I'm not a sad person inherently. I'm just feeling

sad and like I can do other things. Right. And I think just sort of this is the hardest part is just kind of accepting that whatever's going to happen is kind of going to happen if you are reasonably self-aware and you're reasonably self-protective and, you know, doing some work and in therapy and figuring out what's going on. Like, there's not much more you can do. So if you're going to end up getting married in 10 years instead of in five years, like the rest of your friends, just accepting that and not resisting that is going to buy you those five years of life back in some ways.

So a big part of it is just having more acceptance and relinquishing control and the timeline. And you could speak to this, but like the timeline is really. For sure. big deal for people. Well, my other question of her, because I've sort of, again, when I've had those feelings, it's like, you want to get some sort of sense of control, right? So you're like, okay, like, should I accept that maybe it's not going to happen for 10 years or should I, like, sign up for a matchmaker and freeze my eggs and like, do you what I mean? Like, should I try to get some control back in an uncontrollable situation so that I have as much control as possible

if the things don't go my way? If you're like sort of a little bit of like, I don't, it's funny, I don't even think of myself as type A, but I like to like feel a. sense of control. Those are the things that I would be like, should I lean in and dig in and do everything I possibly can to make sure that this works out in my favor? Or should I like, accept that maybe it doesn't and do nothing? Right. Well, there's, I think there's a middle, it's like the politics conversation, right? Or like the current event stuff. Do what you can do. So no, you're not going to meet anyone sitting alone in your living room. So like, yes, go out, go on dates, put yourself together, like, you know, get out there in the world or freeze your

eggs, if that's something that you think would, you know, make you feel better about accepting, right? If something's going to be in the direction of allowing you to accept, then do it. If it's freezing your eggs, if it's, you know, going on dating apps. So once you get to the point where you're like, I'm doing everything I can, I need to just accept that I don't have control over the timeline of this, which is hard. And then it comes back to that accepting of, okay, that just because I'm accepting this doesn't mean I'm not going to have waves of fear. Right. Where I feel like how sad girl forever feels.

But it is a temporary sensation. You know, it's something else that I found helpful when you're feeling fear about most things that we agonize about or end up being deep-rooted fears. But almost like identifying your fear and thanking your fear. This might sound cheesy to you. But like, I want to. identify that I'm afraid of ending up forever. I want to thank this fear for trying to protect me. Your fear is trying to protect you from being sad in the future, right? So thank you fear for trying to

protect me. But honestly, you're a little bit overbearing and you're actually making me sad now by trying to protect me from being sad later. And the being said later is a maybe. I may be said later or I may not be said later. But what's a fact is that I'm sad now because of my fear trying to protect me from being said later. So when you think about it that way, it doesn't seem very rational. Right. You think about it like being able to yell at a friend that you can yell at because they're like you. Right. Like, you have, you know what I mean? Like I'm sure like everyone has a friend where it's like, oh, you better like get out there. And then like that and that person's like you probably do have a friend that's sort of an embodiment of the fear. Like, yes. Yeah. Like you better

or like maybe it's like your mom that's like, you know, how old are you? You know what I mean? Like I think that there's there's there's that's probably a huge like someone you wish you could yell at and then maybe in your in your privacy of your own self and thoughts that person's like fears come out to you and you probably wish you could yell at your mom and say like you're not helping me totally and I think there are most people that feel this way probably have someone that like their mom being like oh so right are you dating oh are you dating anyone you know or what you know whatever it is or the friend you know I've heard people yeah yeah not you getting any younger. That's that thing or someone who's criticizing the way you're handling it or

you know, whatever it is. So yeah, you're 100% right. It's like you have that sometimes it helps to think of that voice as like the mean girl from middle school that's on your shoulder, but it's you. And you have to be like, I'm not going to listen to her. She's not nice. She's not making me feel good. I'm like breaking up with her. And I'm just going to become aware of when she's in the room and I'm going to walk out. You don't want to berate yourself over it, but just the awareness of oh, there's that voice again that's telling me that I should be on a timeline when the timeline that I'm creating to prevent myself from being upset in 10 years is making me really upset right now. Right.

What do you think of this thing that that's list that I guess her therapist had her? It's interesting because like my friends and I made these lists because I read basically when I was like 26, I read a bog article and a lot of my friends were single at the time and it was like, it's a voc article, this woman being like, I have it all. 26, I have it all except for a boyfriend. And basically, like, it was such a weird article. It was like this woman, like, went on this, like, retreat in, like, Malibu, and she happened to meet Heather Graham.

And Heather Graham was, like, in a happy relationship. And she said, like, the way she did it was she wrote down a list of all the qualities she wanted in man. And then she, like, threw it into the ocean. And then she met her boyfriend at the time, like, a few weeks later. It was like, it was like an absurd article. But then we were like, you know what? Let's try it.

So we did it all together. We, like, wrote these probably, like, from doing an outsider looks, like, so pathetic. Like, we wrote down these lists and then we, like, burn them, like, a kid in the Hampton's house, like, in a bonfire. Like, any man who saw us would probably run for the hills. But it kind of worked. And, I mean, we did this actually, like, a couple times. And the second time I actually felt, like, was, like, a year later. And I feel like the second time was, like, more purerless with less, like, superficial things on it.

Okay. Do you know what I mean? Like, it started off, like, six three. Like, do you know what I mean? Abbs. Right. Right. Yeah. And then like it went to like gets along with my friends and like is proud of me and support it.

You know what I mean? Like it went. So that was the difference between like 26 and 27 would you say? Yeah. I would say around that age. Okay. But I do think I mean part of it is like obviously like the burning of the list. I don't think is the thing that really did anything.

But I do think there's like a sense of like, okay, I'm being intentional about my dating. And like part of it that's like the pathetic thing, which I think about, which but it's also. like the empowering thing is like just saying that that's what you want in the first place feels really vulnerable saying like I don't have the perfect life like I would like this thing I do feel lonely is like a sad you know what I mean it's like a sad girl forever kind of feeling and I remember having that my therapist and I was like telling him I was like one of my friends had a boyfriend and I was like it was like kind of jealous and I was just like so upset and he's like that's good feeling that you like are now like you're admitting to yourself that like this is what you want

and you're like real about it and you're not trying to pretend like you're like you're you don't want this. And the fact that you do want it will make you like try harder to get it. Right. Totally. I think there is some benefit in becoming aware of what you're looking for and like, you know, dating with intention. But I do think when I first saw this list, it felt very intense to me. There's 30 items on here. And it does say at the bottom something like, you know, no one person. Yeah, let's read a few. So it starts someone who is comfortable with themselves. find someone who allows mutual respect. I'm just skimming.

Gentleness allows me to have friends. That seems like a given. Someone who can give a take. Not afraid to have fun in life. Can be childish. Can laugh. Someone who has flexibility. I mean,

this seems like it's weird because like with our list, it was like we made them ourselves based on what we valued ourselves. Versus like the therapist making the list is like, is there, does everyone need all of these qualities or does some people care more about some than others? Right. Totally. I mean, this just seemed, like, I think this, when I look at this list, I feel like this could be sort of paralyzing in some ways.

It's one thing if you do what you guys did, where you write it down and then you burn it and send it out into the universe. Okay. And it's kind of fun. Right. Right. Pyrro. It's kind of fun. It's kind of fun and creepy, you know.

Witches gather on the shores of Montau. Actually met her husband, like the night we did this. And we were like, oh, my God. like it's like voodoo. Okay. Well, then I can seem this. It's just the spell. It's like going to like a psychic.

You're like, okay, like this doesn't really going to work. But like it's kind of fun and like, who knows, you know? Right. And you know what? I do think it serves the purpose of allowing you to feel some control without having to keep your finger on the pulse of it all day every day. Like I sent it out into the universe. I'm exerting some control of my will and my wishes, but I don't need to.

And that's where I come back to this list where. where if she has this on her fridge, I think this is going to make her a lunatic. Because every time you go on a date, you come back and you look at your list and you're like, nope, number 14, he's not, you know, or whatever. So I think this list could bring you back into your head, which I always say is not where you want to live.

You don't want to live in your mind because your mind will tell you some crazy stuff. It will tell you things that are not true. It will bring you to a virtual reality. reality place. It will make you fearful of things that haven't happened yet. So I get the concept of the list, but I think, you know, like number 20 can show affection in front of others. So like, I don't know. Like not everyone likes PDA. Right. So that one I'm sort of like, if that's not his, nobody is going to be doing everything. And some people don't even like that

for them. Right. You know, I mean, some woman wouldn't be, would not like that either. So, and, you know, even this can be childish. Like, I don't know. That's not necessarily everybody's thing, you know, whatever, whatever it is. So, you know, she said in a way, not afraid to have fun in life can be childish, just to clarify. But I do think that sometimes having a list that you're following like a Bible can bring you sort of too much in your mind analysis to paralysis versus meeting someone, getting a feeling about them. And of course, being mindful of the big things, whether they're treating. you respectfully, whether they're being kind to you.

A lot of this, basically, the good ones boil down to just respect and kindness. Yeah. I don't think you need to spell that out. Just a feeling you have about somebody if they're kind to you. And how do they make you feel generally based on your own set of things that you value, not like this other person's list? Right. Do you know what I mean?

100%. I think making your own list and sending it out into the universe on like a one-off, I think is great, but I wouldn't recommend like putting it on your fridge and then coming back to it after every day. I think that's going to make you crazy. Just burn a list every single week, you know, every, you can refine. Every time you go on a date, you come back and you write a new list based on the things you didn't like about the other guy. But it's funny, because the list, all that stuff does feel like a way to gain control over an uncontrollable situation. Like even that list thing, which we did, like going to a psychic, going to like a, you know, reading a horoscope. Like, it feels like a way

to have a little bit of control in a world where we don't really have that much control. Yes. Yep. And the truth is you're going to just keep moving from that. And I've said this on here before where, okay, so you meet your person, right now your fear is I'm never going to meet a person.

Then you meet your person and now you don't, you can't control when he's going to propose. So now you start to try to figure out and gain control about when is he going to propose and everyone else is getting married and what's my timeline on that. Then he proposes. And then you, you know, when are we going to get married? When are we going to have kids? Yeah, totally agree.

So if you can't accept that life is kind of going to just unfold and you can just be a joyful observer and participant and find the things within that life that are going well. And for most people, I think they're listening to the show, unless you're chronically ill or you're grieving a loss or you have someone who's terminally ill or, you know, you have someone who's terminally ill or, you know, there's a few things that are very hard to accept. But I think for most people that have these types of things, the basic stuff is pretty good. We just get very distracted by the stuff that we want to be different than what is happening. And you notice that stuff a lot more than the stuff that's going well. You don't think about the fact that, you know, you're generally healthy or that you,

you know, you have a job that you like. You think about what's missing. And like, that's the tough part. And I do like the, I mean, I have been getting more into the meditation thing and I do think that that's like a great way to sort of bring you back, like you said, bring you back into like the here and now, separating your thoughts from those fears. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Your thoughts are serving the purpose for you to try to gain control or create an environment that is going to make you less upset. Right. The fastest way to not being upset is realize this situation is not upsetting me. I am upsetting myself about this situation. That's a fact. I mean, at any point in your life, that situation that you're in right now could be great if you weren't perceiving it in a way that made you feel bad. And that's not to say you're not going to have waves of feeling upset.

That's fine. Let it come. Let it go. And then realize it's my perception of this that is making me upset. It's not the actual situation. And that's the kind of thing that you do have control over. You do have control over like how you allow something to make you feel. feel or how you allow the same circumstances to, like, come out inside you. Do you know what I mean?

Totally. But let's get into our next segment, which is the betchesist. We're going to go over an ethical email. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, thanks so much for this podcast. It's so fun to listen to, hoping to get some insight about my situation. So I've been with my boyfriend for two years now, and maybe I'm just naive, but I really see us getting married and being together forever. Blah, blah. I don't think that's naive. I think that's. completely normal. Yes, two years. You might say that after like two dates.

Whatever. Anyway, that would be naive. This is normal. Anyway, my boyfriend has a strained relationship with his mom and hasn't talked to her in probably 10 plus years. She is a recovered addict, but basically put him in some really shitty situations for the first 10 years of his life until his other family members got custody. He has an amazing relationship with the rest of his family.

And because of that, I don't feel like he's lacking a maternal figure in his life. Also, all of his friends' parents and mine love him so much and love him so much and look out for him. And considering everything he's been through, he's extremely well adjusted and normal. Last year for his birthday, his mom texted him and that night he had nightmares and woke up really freaked. I had already thought that before we could get married and have kids, I would want him to go to therapy just to make sure there were no unresolved issues or that nothing triggers him during that process. But after the incident on his last birthday, the thought of something triggering him makes me upset for him and a little nervous for myself. I guess my questions are, do I have a right to ask my

boyfriend to go to therapy? If so, then how do I approach this conversation? Thanks in advance for reading. Yeah, this is a good question. I like this question. I feel like so many people are probably like, and you need therapy, not even to like just a boyfriend, but like to a friend. You know, you ever have a friend that's like telling you the same story over and over again or doing the same thing and you're like, can I tell them to like see a therapist? Because like I don't really want. One, it's kind of like, I don't really want to hear this anymore or like to like, you know, you're a little judgmental of the way that they're actually acting, but you don't feel comfortable calling them out. You're like, you're going to do this. Exactly. Hopefully the therapist will.

I do think that there are times, and this idea of him being triggered and having nightmares, I get it. I get why she's concerned for him. That's a big deal, not speaking to your mother for 10 years. I would start if I'm her with maybe just broaching the conversation with him, you know, just being able to say, just ask him, how do you feel about not talking to your mom? Do you feel like you're in a good place with that or even asking him. I mean, I love dreams slash nightmares. I think that they're like kind of a window into your psyche. So I don't know if she's into that type of thing,

but just, you know, maybe asking him if he'd be comfortable sharing what his dream was about when he spoke to his mom and maybe just opening up the conversation with her might lead more naturally to, you know, maybe. Seeing how much he's processed anything. Right. Because I get the feeling that maybe he is thinking about this in some way, but the two of them are not talking about it. So she might not have an idea of how much he's processed this. Right.

Can you ask someone at some point? Like, what do you think of that ethically? Could she say, have you ever thought about seeing a therapist? Or even further than that, I'd like you to see it. I have these concerns that this will come out in some other way. Would you, you know what I mean? Like, is that a reasonable ask? Or is that sort of not up to you?

you. Right. Yeah, I mean, I guess saying like, if there's no actual symptoms that he's displaying that are hurting her or upsetting her, you know, I don't know that saying like, I'd like you to go to therapy necessarily it's at that place. But I think if they started talking about it and then she said, you know, I don't really know how to help you with this. Maybe a therapist would be better equipped to help you figure all this stuff out. That might be a better way to go about it than just not really talking about it and just saying, hey, I think based on the fact that you haven't spoken to your mom in 10 years, you should probably go to therapy, which isn't the worst thing. But I think asking him to open up and if he's having, so either way, if he like starts opening up,

starts talking about it, then she could say, you know, it sounds like there's a lot here. I don't know that I can really totally help you with this. Maybe seeing a therapist would help or if he shuts it down and doesn't want to talk about it at all and seems very closed off, then you can kind of say, you know, know, it seems like you're pretty closed off on this issue or you really are very uncomfortable talking about it. I think that that might lead to some difficulties down the road if you're not, you know, able to come to terms of that. Maybe therapy might help. So I think either way, I do think if you're not speaking to your mom for 10 years, I think she's right. Some therapy

would probably be good, even if he continues to make that decision. Right. What if he's like, I'm fine? I don't need a therapist. Like, I'm doing fine. Right. I think that's, That's an answer you get a lot also from like men who are like, like I don't need this, I'm fine and I don't, like this isn't an issue for me. I mean, it doesn't sound like the thing that he, if he had a nightmare, that doesn't sound like that's like, and it was once in your whole two-year relationship, that doesn't sound like, I could see from his perspective where it's like, I don't need to go to therapy because I had one nightmare and like the two years they've been dating me.

Right. And that's like, why is that so scary to you? Totally. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think if that's really all that it is, then maybe he has come to terms with it. But yeah, no, I agree. But I just think if he's closed off where he's like, I'm fine. I don't need therapy. That's tough because she could say, well, it just seems like you're really still very

uncomfortable talking about it. Like if he could sit and they have like a 45 minute conversation, he says, look, this is why I don't talk to my mother and this is why I made that decision. And yes, sometimes like on my birthday, it's very upsetting to me, but it reaffirms that I've made the right, you know, what I think it really depends on how he's having the conversation. If he's like, I'm fine, I don't need therapy. I think you could follow up with, well, it just seems like you're really still pretty uncomfortable talking about it.

Right. So that's concerning because I really want to have, you know, it's important to me to have a relationship where we can communicate about anything and we can know each other deeply. Yeah. Do you ever get people in therapy who are only there because someone like kind of made them go, like their wife or something like that or their husband? You know what I mean? Like, I feel like it's probably less likely to work if you're not, if it's not your idea

or you don't really want it. If it's something else. Oh, totally. It doesn't last very. I've had that and it doesn't last long if there's somebody that's kind of being dragged there. But I also do think that after a session or two, what happens is they start to feel when I'm listening to them, they start to feel heard and validated.

And they think, oh, well, this feels good. I like this. You know, I think a lot of times people don't. want to go in because they're private people and they're afraid of talking to a stranger about their feelings. But when they come in and they see that I'm non-judgmental and that I'm really there to help them and validate them, a lot of times they'll come around. It's like you just have to kind of rip off that band-aid, I think, because whatever's happening at home is probably not great either. So there's at least like therapies, like a potential light at the end of the tunnel versus

I'm going to go home and just go into this abyss of dysfunction that. there's no pathway out. At least you feel like you're working on something in that way. So I like that. So I guess she's like, does she have a right? I think it's like, like you said,

like that's maybe that's not like the first thing you say. Yeah. It's like you open with just like, let's talk about it. Yeah, I don't think asking, but maybe suggesting or, yeah,

I definitely think her trying to talk to him about it first and then suggesting that therapy might help would be. Do you think it sounds like selfish to say like, I'd like you to go to therapy because of how I'm afraid this will affect me. Do you know what I mean? To say like when you were, you know, when you had that nightmare, it made me scared that you have some unresolved stuff that's going to come out if we ever have kids. Well, look, I think that that's her real feelings.

I think she can definitely say that. I'm afraid that maybe you'll just, you know, you have something deep rooted and maybe one day you'll just up and leave or you won't want to be. You know, I think it's fair for her to say her fears. I think that would be wonderful to kind of model that. behavior by saying like this is what I'm afraid of. These are my inner thoughts and feelings. Like I want to know yours too. Right. I like that. That probably be more likely to make him open up. If she's like, I'm afraid you're going to be a psychopathic lunatic and you have

mommy issues, like that might not be a great way to approach it. But if she's very like tender and loving and just sort of like, I love you so much and I am and I want this relationship to work. And I'm afraid that maybe if there's something underlying that you might, you know, whatever her real fear is leave me or whatever. Right. Be afraid to have kids or I like that. Makes about her, but like about her and the relationship and about him. And it's kind of like, we'll also show you how much they care about how whatever happened makes you feel. Right. And I think she genuinely is upset for him. Like she doesn't want him to be holding on to this stuff. So this is a great question. And I would just open up the conversation generally, see how he handles it and then try to find a way

to slip in a suggestion. That would be my advice. I love that. Let's play some triggered. All right. Let's do triggered. All right. Want to the first one? Sure. I've been feeling very triggered recently.

For context, when I was growing up, my dad had a really bad temper. He would always walk around the house, muttering complaints and curse words to himself, usually about my family. And if you aggravated him when he was in that state, he would blow up. I live with my best friend and her younger brother who recently moved in with us. He has the same habit of constantly talking to himself under his breath, and it really activates my anxiety. because I have the instinct that he's talking about me,

which he really isn't because we have no personal relationship and barely interact. Obviously, he isn't doing anything wrong, but it really activates my fight or flight. It sounds silly, but I'm unable to relax my body in my own house. Interesting. So I feel like this is triggering,

but it's not like really this guy's problem necessarily, if you know what I mean. Yeah, this is definitely a her thing. I would give it like a seven. I could see why it would be triggering, but I also don't think like, she necessarily has the right.

It's funny because you read that book, like the untethered soul and it's kind of like, you can try to like make all your surroundings fit to avoid your triggers or you can like deal with your triggers and then not be affected by them. And then like you can actually control that. So you know what I mean? Yes. So freeing. Yes.

Nobody can bother you if that's the case. Yeah. You see that a lot on the internet where it's like any kind of like sometimes there's a lot of jokes on the internet that are about subjects that are sensitive to some people. Do you know what I mean? And they're like, you shouldn't make that joke that's triggering to people who have this or that or like, right. You know what I mean? Like, who have this thing or that thing. When it's like, you can't control like through those people almost like, yeah, we could try to like get rid of every potentially insensitive joke to any group of people or those people could learn to like

process their own things. So they're not affected by that because chances are they're going to be seeing something that upsets them on the internet somewhere. And if something is that triggering to you that some stranger's comment about it is going to be upsetting, then that's worth looking at and digging into and finding out what the underlying fear is and finding a way to accept the situation so you're not so triggered. But yeah, this to me is like the definition of triggered though. So I do think that the fact that she's triggered is normal and okay and she's realizing it because she probably had like a physiological response to her dad. Like she even said, relax my body. So she's having like a physiological response to this roommate muttering under his breath. And it's probably the same physiological response that she had to her dad. So I totally, this is like the definition of triggering. It's like hitting those same spots in her memory and bringing up all those same feelings from when she was a kid. I would not recommend having a talk with him and saying, hey, can you please stop muttering under your breath? Like I don't think that that's

his problem. Right. Or like, I mean, I guess technically she probably could say that in a nice way and he would stop doing it, but I wouldn't really solve her problem because someone else might do that and it might bother her somewhere else. Exactly. So the better long term solution for her is to sort of like break down what that trigger is probably like with a therapist or maybe potentially even just on her own, think about it, like process it and then like get to a point where she's not so triggered by it. I don't know how you do that. But yeah, I mean, I think kind of, again, avoiding the triggers actually makes them stronger. So like you said, if you clear out the internet to where there's no triggering content, when you do stumble on something, it's going to be extremely triggering because you've been avoiding it for so long.

Right. So, you know, facing those triggers and almost like desensitizing yourself a little bit, you know, within reason. Yes. Ask him to just do it constantly. And then eventually or even like I do think. there's something to be said for when he's doing it, like maybe don't leave the room. Maybe sit there and breathe and like create a new association where you can like drop your shoulders, relax your eyebrows, relax your body and like listen to the sound of his muttering and just say, I can handle this. I can handle this.

This is not my father. This is someone out. Like come realize, create a new association between the muttering and a, a relaxed body. You're not in a dangerous situation. Your dad's not going to scream at you. You're, you know, whatever it is. So I think there might be something, you're making a joke about saying, like, tell them to say it more. But I think there might be something there in terms of sit there instead of leaving the room and just listen to it and try to have a calm body while you're hearing it and create a new association. I like that. But yeah, this is triggering. I get it.

All right. Let's do another one. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I have a triggered scenario for you. How offended should I be when someone asks me if I'm pregnant? For context, I've been asked multiple times than the last year if I'm pregnant by people I don't know well. I'm a pediatrician and a few of the people who have asked me have been patients' parents. And I wonder if it's just because they have kids on the brain and I'm around that age. But then it makes me worry that I look fat. How triggered should I be? Loving the podcast so far.

I think like societally, this is a very triggering thing. I would say this is like an eight or a nine. Like that's kind of offensive thing to say. I think I would think about that for a bit. Totally. I think everybody knows there's like a cultural rule where you don't ask someone if they're pregnant, even if they're like nine months pregnant with like a baby hanging out.

Right. Don't ask that question. So I just like a rude thing to say. Yeah. Or it's like offensive, I guess, if they're not. Totally. But if we really boil it down and you, you know, okay, maybe you have a little extra belly fat.

Okay. I get why it's triggering. I agree. I would be triggered. I think most people would be. But I think if you break it down, like the cultural norm that like fat is bad is also something that we don't have to necessarily buy into. That if you have like a little bit of a pooch, does that, okay, that's the shape of

your body, you know, and you can kind of accept that. I mean, look, I think most people would be triggered. so I'll say that. But I would like to open a conversation on this like fat phobic kind of society that we live into. That's fair. I think that's a great point to like take the thing and like it's and almost like go deeper into it.

It's like why is this so offensive to me? What is like my fear around if this is true? Like if it's not just because there are their parents like what and then if you work through that then it's like then you've almost done what is very hard to do societally and just completely break, you know what I mean, like any sense of self-worth or like attractiveness away from body image type, which I think is very difficult to do. But if you could do that, you're like, talk about like running around the world free. If you could be as a woman, if you could be totally free from any sort of judgment about your own body or thoughts about your own body that are not ideal, you know, very hard to do. Very hard to do. I get it. I think 10 out of 10 people would probably be triggered. I went to the nail salon. just I thought of this. And I went to the nail salon with Shira and my two girls. And Shira's our younger sister and she's 15 years younger than me. So we sit down at the chair. The lady comes over to me and goes, oh, are you the grandma? And I was like very triggered.

No, I'm not the grandma. Like these are my daughters. And this is my sister. But thanks for asking. So I never went back there again. the new nail place. But again, like, okay. You really got your revenge. They miss me a lot. But, you know, I am 15 years older than her. So maybe I look 20 years older than her.

And that's a reasonable question, I guess, or whatever it is. And I don't think you look like your grandma. Oh, thanks. Personally. I appreciate that. But even if you did, I guess, then like, why are you so afraid of looking old? Right. Exactly.

Exactly. Right. So there's like an ageist part of the society. there's like a fat phobic part of society where it's kind of like there's beauty in all things but we have to change our perception and it's so hard to do that when it's like such a heavy cultural stigma. I get triggered when someone says I look tired. I find that to be offensive too. Do you know what I mean? I can see that. I guess that. No one ever says that in like a positive, they're like, you know what I mean? That's never a positive thing. No, it means like you look kind of bad.

Yeah. You don't look kind of shitty. Right. Yeah, you look so tired. It seems like, you look sick. Right, not a compliment. Right, not a compliment. So, yeah, I can see that. But yeah, triggering. I would definitely agree with your rating on that.

I don't think anyone would like that. All right, let's do one more. I've been dating my boyfriend for five months now and everything has actually been delightful. Lucky me. We compliment each other's lifestyles and all my family and friends approve and vice versa. Our only issues seem to be rooted in his job. He's a bartender and works late hours while I, I work a nine to five job.

This is not really the trigger, though. What gets me triggered is that his ex fling, someone he casually dated for a month or two before calling things off, loves to show up at his work during his shifts. I know he can't control who comes while he's working, but I can't help but get a feeling she's trying to find a way to rekindle something, even though she knows me and him are together. I would never ask him to say anything to her. And for the most part, I just sit in my discomfort when I get the she's here again text from him. Sometimes I get a little attitude about it because I just can't help but get triggered,

but have been making my best efforts to trust him and stay calm about it. What do you guys think? I know he ended things almost six months before even meeting me, but he's told me she kept trying to get back together then, and I think this is a continuation of that. There's plenty of other bars in the area and nothing particularly special about his workplace besides him. So I can't grasp why she's there as often as she is.

Am I reading into things or would you be triggered too? I would give this like a six or a seven. I think this is annoying. I would be like, I think if it's constant too, like one time I think I'd be like, all right, whatever. But if it's like every day, it's kind of like, I don't like love this. But you know what I mean? And it's almost made worse by the fact that she can't really like do anything about it.

Like what is she really supposed to do? Right. So I'd ask him to ask her not to come in. But like that seems also kind of aggressive. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't think he can really do that. I don't think his workplace would love it if he took his personal stuff and lost a customer over it. I think it's a great sign that he texts her when she comes in.

Totally. I love that. You know what I mean? Way to go, boyfriend. I like that. Yeah. Like it would make me think that I had nothing to worry about if he's, and also she wrote like he made like a weird face emoji like unpleasant.

Do you know what I mean? Like he's really saying he's not into it. I think this is one of those things where you kind of have to accept like you can't really control what is happening here. And so, like, you just have to trust, like, if your boyfriend's going to cheat on you, he's going to cheat on you, or he's going to, like, he could cheat on you at any point. There's really no way for you to fully ever ensure 100% that doesn't happen. So it's kind of like, if you can't, if you're never going to be able to control that, you might as well just accept that, like, things will come and go. Like, right. And there's not much you can do. And she just has, I get it. I get why this is triggering. But she has, like, an object now, a specific object to direct, all of her potential insecurities on, which is this girl. But it does sound like the fact that he's texting you, the fact that he ended it with her, she tried to get back together then and he didn't want to.

And then he started dating you. Like if he wanted to be with this girl, he had plenty of opportunity to do it. And he still has plenty of opportunity to do it. So I think you have to just trust in the fact that he's way more into you. He doesn't seem into her. And she's probably just hanging on. I would, you know, if she's concerned, I think she can. pop in. No, I'm just kidding.

Could do a little pop in. That's one way. I think she could find out if they're talking or maybe there is something that he's doing to encourage her. I don't know. It doesn't sound like that. She could tell him how it makes her feel so he's even like more more on top of making her feel okay about it. Like if she's like, because she said she was like kind of like getting irritable and maybe like snapping at him or something when he told her that she was there. I think if she could maybe like when she sees him be like, sometimes I get a little jealous. when like, you know, I know that there's this person who's around you so frequently that you used to like intimately be with. And I know I don't really have anything to worry about, but it's so constant

that it makes me feel like a little insecure. Like maybe that would even help him go like even more out of his way. Yes. To or he could say like, why don't you come in and we'll like hang out or you know what I mean? It'll be totally something to just something extra to sort of like make you feel more secure about what's happening, even if he can't control this other person coming in. I like that. I like that a lot. I think that's a great piece of advice. And it's going to prevent this little attitude, because I think the little attitude is the seedling that you don't want to allow that to grow. You know, like the little passive aggressiveness about it is not healthy. The best way to do is exactly what you said, maybe expressed to him. Like, this makes me feel a little insecure. And hopefully he can do a little bit more to

reassure you. And I think you could spin this and just think, wow, I have a great guy. He's a catch. And there are other women that are going to be interested in him, but he's mine. So I feel good about that. I like that. It's a little less doomsday-ish than he could cheat at any moment and you'll just never know. So accept it. Right. That's my original train of thought. It is kind of true, but I think just saying, okay, if I have a great guy who's attractive and fun and funny and engaging, like women are potentially going to be interested in him. And it's more about what he does with that than the women that are interested in him. Right. So, but yeah. Well, I think we helped all the people who wrote in. And guys, if you have a question that you want us to answer an ethical dilemma or any kind of interpersonal question, email us oversharing at betches.com. Or if you prefer to leave a voicemail, do that. 646-363-6294. If you're thinking of calling someone and yelling at them, you can call us instead. And we will tell you how you should process this. All right. That's our time. Great work today.

Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Picoe, and Rebecca Salis McHale. Editing by Missileo Perez. Yes, Booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to Oversharing at Betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.