Oversharing - How to Apologize The Correct Way

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

After announcing her pregnancy news, Jordana reacts to the outpouring of love she got from followers and Dr. Naomi asks her how the experience has been for her since revealing the personal update. A Betch that manages other employees is struggling with how to handle her direct report's constant oversharing on social media and the hosts debate why people reveal such intimate details on the internet. One listener calls in wondering how she can honor her Mother’s desire for validation about her appearance while setting an example for her young daughter. Struggling to potty train her toddler, a woman seeks an intention that can help her be more patient with her child’s personal timeline. Some morbid Halloween decorations in one listener’s neighborhood leave her feeling triggered and a bride to be is feeling burned by her wedding florist who left her high and dry shortly before her big day. Subscribe to Oversharing on Youtube:  ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@OversharingPod⁠   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How are you?

How's everything? Doing good. How was your big announcement, your big reveal? Did you, I feel like that was probably. Probably you got some screen time in there, I'm sure. Oh, yeah, for sure. No, I mean, the response to our episode and to the news of the pregnancies has really been just so unbelievably kind. I've just gotten so many messages.

I want to say I've gotten so many DMs, so many comments. I tried to reply to as many of them as I possibly could. There's really like a lot. Maybe I'll get to them eventually. But just know, I'm reading. I read all of them. And I tried to reply, but I see every kind note, every kind message that you sent. And it just means so much. And it's so nice to hear like people who are going through it, how helpful the series

was to them, how, you know, how much it made them feel less isolated. And honestly, I'm kind of just like in awe of like how many people are so happy for someone. Yeah. They don't know. It's like, I think it's so amazing. It's not, it's not that, not that, not. that I don't have that for anyone. Right. But I don't think I have it to the level that a lot of people have it where they're like literally crying because they're so happy for me. Yeah.

Like it's so sweet. It really makes you like believe that there's a goodness in like humanity as a whole. Yeah. And people really care for each other. Like I even had a few of my, I should, I'm going to pass the messages along, but a few of my patients that have reached out to you via me, just so happy for you. And also just, I think there, I think part of it is like, you're not just a random person

that's like sharing this. You know, almost like the People magazine article where the headline was like, influencer has a baby after two miscarriages. And then somebody commented, who cares? Like, you know, I think there's that on that side, which is like you're being put out there as just like an influencer who had a baby after two miscarriages. But like people that really listen to you and feel like they know you and have heard your story and just how vulnerable you are. Like I even have patients that are on the other side of it. They have their baby or babies or whatever it is that they wanted.

And just hearing you kind of allows them to. go back and kind of feel those feelings again and, you know, get in touch with, you know, a more vulnerable side of themselves, which I, so I just think it brings that out in people because they really feel like they know you and your voice fills their space and this kind of right. No, and that's really nice. And that's why I'm so glad we got to do the show because I do think like on social, I didn't really include like all the details or anything like that because I just think it's like not really a medium where you can get like a full nuanced story. I mean, even here, when we get a voicemail, you get just like a, you really get more of the experience of what someone is going through.

You really get like the ins and the outs and the details and the little things. And that's the way I like to hear stories and tell stories because I just feel like it really paints a much bigger picture than however, whatever you can fit into a caption online. Totally. And people know you enough. If they're really listening to you, they know you in your like funny. whatever, like carefree moments like with Jared on you up or what we do. And then they probably feel like the intensity in your voice when you're talking about these personal things.

And, you know, I remember when we were recording that episode and you were like fidgeting with something on your desk and, you know, it's kind of like, I think the listeners were all, I mean, especially if you're listening to this content, you're interpersonally perceptive. you're very probably curious about emotions and I think people really tap into you and feel the emotion that you've been um you know allowing everybody to to be a part of so thank you guys so much for listening and for all your messages and for just the well wishes and just like this the really good vibes that I was very I was nervous and so it definitely helped um just alleviate a lot of that I wanted to ask your psychological, moving on, moving on.

I wanted to ask your psychological opinion on the best way to apologize. I'm not going to get into specifics, but I found myself made. What did you do? I'm not going to get into it. I'm not going to get into it. But I found myself in a situation where I had to apologize this weekend. When I was apologizing or when I was like thinking about what I wanted to say to apologize. Yeah. I was thinking about the way to do it in terms of like trying to explain. yourself without sounding like you're making excuses. I think that's the hardest part is like I want to

tell you where I was coming from, but I don't want it to sound like I'm rationalizing it or saying it was okay. So I think to me that was like the, I don't know what the cycle, like what is the psychological best way to apologize. This is so relatable because I see, I just saw this yesterday. Like I was reading a text apology. You're like, I usually get the apologies. I don't have to send them. No, no, no, it wasn't personally. It wasn't, it wasn't me. It was someone else. Someone else that was showing me. A text apology with almost this exact same question, which is like, this is an apology. But the apology was kind of like, I'm sorry I did that thing, but I was triggered that you did this thing. Right. And so that's why I did that thing.

And it's kind of like, okay. Right. Well, was that an excuse then? Is it like, right? But also it's like, I think maybe it's in the phrasing because I do think sometimes, like for me, if someone is apologizing, I prefer to hear like, why did you do that? Yes. Yeah. So maybe some people don't. Some people are like, I don't care why you did that.

I just want you to like grovel. Yeah. I think this is the other reason why I think ideally in an ideal world, this doesn't happen over text, right? Because in real life, you can have more of a conversation where you can say, I'm so sorry, I reacted in that way, or I said that thing or whatever the behavior was that you did. Right. And you could say, you know, I really was, you know, just giving them some indication. I was up thinking about how, you know, I thought a lot about how it might have made you feel.

And I never, you know, if I never would have made that choice. I like if you feel this way to say if I could go back, I would have done it differently. I think it's kind of a nice thing to say, which isn't like it's not saying, it's not like taking away from why you did it. It's just saying knowing now I would have made a different choice if I could go back. And that does sometimes feel really nice to someone. Because I've had people kind of apologize and then, you know, it's kind of like, but I probably wouldn't have done anything differently the next time. Well, yeah, that doesn't sound like an apology, right? Right.

Sounds like I don't want you to be mad, but like I wouldn't have done it differently. So saying that's like that's like, which I think is the worst thing to get, the most triggering thing to get in an apology, which is I'm sorry you felt that way. Yes. Which is like I don't feel bad about what I did. I'm sorry that you couldn't handle it. Right. Whatever it was. Yeah.

Which is like, I think the worst thing. I think that's on the do not say apology list. Right. And I totally agree, but I think you can take an apology like that, which is why these things are better done in person or on the phone. Because I think what that's begging is like there's more here. You know, when people say something like, I'm sorry, you felt that way or I did this because I was really upset that you did that. So I think the idea of like bearing down an apology to like, I'm going to say this, these few sentences, you're going to say these few sentences. is if that doesn't feel great, whatever your situation is where you feel the need to say,

like, well, this is why I did it. It's like you're squeezing a square peg in a round hole. Like you're not going to be able to wrap it up in a couple of sentences. Or if you do, you're going to be like swallowing something. Right. That is probably going to come back up at a later time because you're, whatever your end, whatever your side of the story is not really being addressed because you were, like the worst behaved person in the room.

You know, like, perhaps in this situation. If you're the one apologizing, right. Just because you were the worst behaved person in the room doesn't mean that like the other person didn't also maybe do something. Right. Which is why I do agree. I think and that I called this person that I was apologized. At first I texted them and then I was like sit.

I still felt bad and I was sitting on it all night and then I called them the next day. And then I felt like the phone call was much more. productive in like getting to the root of like how this happened and how it would and I think like, I think there's like three parts of an apology and one of them is like what you're going to do to like make sure it doesn't happen again. Right. Which I think is also really gratifying to hear if you're on the other end of an apology. Yes. Because sometimes people say sorry and they continue to do whatever they've done. So you're kind of like, it doesn't really mean much to me. Yes. And it feels really nice along those lines, that and also to kind of say the words.

Like sometimes people don't want to say the words. Like, I'm really sorry that I did this specific thing that I did and saying what the specific thing is that you did. And I could imagine that it might have made you feel X, Y, Z. It's almost like couples there. When I do couples therapy, what I need them to do is like hear. their own feelings being said back to them. Because then it's like, okay, not only do you get it, but you're actually like, you know, kind of brave enough or like owning it enough to say it out

loud and to me. And now I hear that you get it. And that's easier to kind of move on and then just like, I'm sorry I raise my voice. Like that feels like, okay, fine. I'm sorry I raise my voice. But like, I'm sorry. I screamed at you and I yelled like, you suck at ping pong. I'm never playing with you again. Like saying the thing that you like said out loud and then saying, I could imagine that probably was really embarrassing in front of a lot of people.

And, you know, I saw your face. And as soon as I said it, I realized, like just kind of acknowledging that person's full experience. But then I do think you can, and I do this in couples therapy too. Then once you kind of go through one person has their turn to like do their whole thing, then you might have needed a turn to kind of say, is it okay if I share with you like where I was at at the time?

Right. Right. Or my thought process when I did this. Yes. Or what was, you know, what was going through my head. Yes. And then when you do it that way, it comes off as less like, well, you did this. I did this because you did this.

Yeah. No, I think that's a good point, almost like asking to qualify what happened. And again, I think if you could also pepper that with like not saying this is an excuse, but this is why I did it. And now that I know this, I would never do that that way again. Right. Or something. Yeah.

Okay. I like that. Almost like asking to, because I feel like most people would want to know. to me that's like sort of the the main part of forgiveness. Like if I'm going to forgive someone, I kind of feel like I need that. I need to know like why it happened. Yeah. That's why cheating is so hard because I think that's what the person always is like,

I don't understand how you could do this. And like I have spent so many hours with couples being like, what were you thinking? Like literally I want to know. know, like what? And a lot of times there's like not really an answer or the answer is not what they want to hear. So I do think people want to know that. But I think the important piece is like, you have to do a full good job at your part, making them feel understood and validated. And then they'll be open to almost anything. It's like you said, it's almost like the timing. Like if you just do like bang bang, right. Apology excuse. That's going to land.

very differently than like full apology, even asking sometimes, like, does it set, did I get it all? Like, does it sound like I understand what you're really upset about? Is there anything that I'm not understanding about how I hurt you, like really squeezing all the juice out of that? Then I think at that point, that person's going to be open to whatever you have to say because they feel understood and validated. It's not going to feel like an excuse if you're doing a good job with part one of the apology. I agree. And then if you say it right away, if you tried to do the excuse right away, it sounds like you're just trying to like escape the situation. It sounds very defensive, as they say. Right. Yeah. Less about you, more about me. Now I want you to make me feel better or like,

you know, think about what I was going through. Like they need a little bit of time to be about them or a decent chunk of time about them and then you can share your perspective. Love that. Love that. All right. Great question. I see this all the time. And it's like, well, why is, why aren't they forgiving me or why is there still tension in this relationship after this thing? Like, I apologize.

It matters the quality of the apology. Yes. Not all apologies are created equal. Yes. There's our title. Anyway, let's get into our episode. We have a voicemail today. And if you want to leave a voicemail, the voicemail number is 646-36-3.

6294. You can also subscribe to this podcast. We love our subscribers and they seem to really enjoy those episodes. You get two bonus episodes a month. And you get all the episodes ad free and a day early. So subscribe. You can try it out as a seven day free trial. If you are not sure if you want to commit, you can cancel before that time period. Or you can join one of Dr. Naomi's therapy groups if you want to get really involved. How do they do that? Yeah, come join us. Go to Naomi Bernstein.com. Just fill out basic information and we will match you up with the group. It's really fun. It's a great community. Right now, I think I mentioned it last week and I'm going to talk about it here too. We are practicing this four-step meditation to help you through.

I feel like it's a good kitchen sink meditation to help you through. whatever you might be going through. And I'm going to give you guys a little walkthrough of what it is with the intention segment today for a listener. But we go home. We do that. I have all the group members. They do their meditation.

They come back. We talk about how it felt, what the struggles were. So just challenges to keep you kind of accountable for your mental health journey and support it at the same time. So come join us, Naomi Bernstein.com. Love that. Like a therapy group and workshop. All in one. Yeah. Yep. All right. Let's get into our episode. Okay. And now we'll get into our

overshare. We had an extra one that we did last week that was really good. We wanted to share it with you. So if our outfits change in the YouTube or Spotify video, you'll know why. But here's our overshare. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. Love the pod. And thank you for all that you do. At my company, I lead a team of employees who are all in their 30s. I supervise the managers and they supervise the coordinators. We have a workplace where it's very common for staff to share about their personal lives, hang out on weekends, and even follow each other on social media. I am the first to admit that at my workplace, the line between friendship and work can be blurry. One of the coordinators has been given feedback multiple times, as recently as May, by her manager that sharing intimate

details about her dating life is a step too far, especially when not everyone sees her as a friend. She seems to take this feedback okay, but it's been years of this, and I feel like we don't see too much change. She recently went through a breakup, and like every other time, she posted an announcement on her Instagram story. While not my cup of tea, she has the right to use her social media however she wants. Later that day, I got a message from a manager on my team, not hers, sending me a TikTok from her, which is public. She went on to talk about intimate details of her and her partner's sex life before they split. I can't tell if it's my place to say anything to her, ask her to stop. I know she cares about her career, and because this is recurring, I have been in many

conversations where our leadership and her peers have mentioned they don't take her as seriously because of the public oversharing. But on the other hand, if she's gotten feedback before, does she just not care? While I care about her, I also feel like this is a direct reflection of me and I feel embarrassed that this is out there. Signed an HBIC or head betch in charge. All right. It's like she's kind of watching this person like crash and burn in slow motion and everyone's talking about her behind her back and I guess to her face. So it just feels like a little, I want to help you, but you're not wanting to be helped. It's a little cringy. But I think this is like,

I think this is such a common thing. I mean, I've seen this. I've thought about this. Also, like, I, you know, Betches is a company that's very social media based. And a lot, you know,

the employees follow each other on Instagram and you can kind of see what they're up to. And, you know, it's funny because, like, on purpose or not on purpose, you do judge kind of like everything. That's sort of like what we're naturally doing is we're naturally judging a lot of things. And,

um, sometimes it is. like hard to separate that from like who they are at work. Right. Right. I guess the other piece is kind of like this listener feels like she's, it's like embarrassing for her. Yes. So, you know, I don't know if that's something that happens for you, like if there's someone that works for you that's putting something out there that feels like cringy, if you're like, oh, this is a bad look for me. Or if it's just like, No, this is just a bad look for you and it's really not my problem. Right.

I almost think it's worse when it's like a friend who's putting up something that's cringy because you're like, that's someone you're choosing to have in your personal life as your friend and you're like, yikes. Like this is almost like a weird. Like it's almost like if your kids posted something that was crazy, you'd be like, no, you're like representing the family. Right. You're representing.

So I think that there, it is a little bit of a self-centered. thing in that way. I think more for friendship than it would be for work. Because for work, it's like, and that's why I think this one is tough because I understand both sides. But I also think like, unless that person's in a client facing role, like if this person, I don't know what she does. Right.

But let's say that she runs, if it's a sales team and they're out and your company name is in their bio and they're out representing the company. and interacting with people on social and someone could look them up. If I were like buying something from a company, I might look up the salesperson and I might, I might be deterred if I saw what I saw something like that. If it was like an outward facing role. Right. Well, I think what it implies and the reason why it's like kind of cringy and not great is

like if I see that, that implies to me like there's like some impulse control issue. like if someone's going through a breakup and they cannot control the impulse to like crap on their ex's you know abilities and say you know the sex between them and their ex it just implies to me like there's a little bit of like an unhinged impulse control issue where if I'm doing business with that person it makes me feel like what if I piss them off or what if they, you know, I say something they don't like or I don't want to tell them anything about me because they seem like, this means vengeful. Yeah. Vengeful. So it just, I think it makes people in a business setting potentially feel a little bit nervous around this person or like they can't

trust this person. And like you're saying, if it is a sales role, you want to feel like the person you're doing business with, you can trust them. They can like, they have some self-control. They, you know, can be measured about things. So that, it's not even about like, uh, like I don't, your personal life, it's not just not a good look. It's almost like it factors into how you can trust this person's ability to handle things that are emotional. So that's a good point. Right. Even if they were not external facing. Right. Right. Just like, you know, I'm giving you money potentially or like I'm trusting you with something if we're doing business. together and it just feels like, you know, someone might be a little bit unhinged.

Right. But on the other hand, do you have the right to police the way that someone handles their personal life if it doesn't that directly have to do with the business? I think no, but if it's, I think, phrased the way that you just put it. Like, if I were going to talk to this person, if I'm their manager and I'm going to talk to this person, I would keep it solely focused to the, but then you're basically telling them that they don't have impulse control in their breakup, which is an uncomfortable conversation to have, which is like technically kind of none of your business, but also they're making it your business by sharing it publicly. Like it's not like a private account. Right. Right. Look, if I were her, if I'm the listener,

unless you, she really thinks that this is going to affect their like bottom line and this is going to affect business or this is really, if it's more just like you feel bad for her because her reputation, like you, like, I think that's more what it sounds like from the email. Like she really cares about her career and that kind of thing. You know, I think if it's just you're doing this out of care for her and her reputation and she's not even your direct report. And also it's been mentioned to her several times already and she's not doing anything about it, I would probably back off. I think if it's something that you really think is going to affect your company or is like detrimental to what you're trying to achieve, then maybe it's worth saying something in that way of kind of like,

you know, when you put a lot of stuff out there, it, you know, part of, and again, we don't know if this is a sales role or whatever it is, but like, whatever. you want to say about how that makes clients potentially feel when they see that. Like you can just explain not like in a judgey way of like this isn't a good thing for you to do, but it just might make people feel this way and hesitate to want to do business or feel like they can't really trust. And I think that's fair or to suggest she go private at least. Yeah.

I think it sounds like it was discussed with her something about what she's sharing with other co-workers, maybe like in person. Mm-hmm. But I don't know. I think it's worth one more conversation about the social media. Because maybe she was like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm just like not going to like tell my coworkers about I'm just going to post it on TikTok. Public. Yeah. And then I won't, you know, make anyone feel uncomfortable by telling them to their face. But I think maybe like one more conversation about just the need for discretion.

And I think there's so many jobs where that's more obviously like a given. I have, I had a, I once met up a woman who is a judge. She was like for criminal cases. Right. And she was like, yeah, they were like, you cannot have any social media. Right. Like that's very bad. Right. Like there are certain jobs like specifically where this is like very far on the end. I think if you were a judge and you were doing this, you'd probably be fired. But like I think like there's levels of like what you do outside of work or school or whatever it is. does affect your perception in important ways for certain jobs.

And some, I think the connection is more clear. But I do think it's important for all of them. I mean, they tell you that when you were, I remember maybe probably not for you because I don't think that existed when you were applying to college. But even when I was applying to colleges in high school, they would be like, clean up your social media.

Yeah, clean up your social media. No pictures of drinking, no pictures of whatever. and make sure you're, you know, they would have people change their name, like, make it their first. They would suggest you, like, change your name, make it your first and middle name. Right. Ronnie's coming into his own. He sounds like a real teenager. I know.

Expressing himself. Seriously. Yes. Wants attention. Yeah. No, I do agree. I mean, I think, and this is. is a larger question, but I kind of feel like being public in general, unless you are like an

influencer or your social media is part of what you're doing, it probably is like, you know, if you're in a professional role and someone's going to see, I mean, it's, and if you're, what you're posting is just like pictures of you living your life, fine. But if what you're posting is like your deepest emotional feelings about things and your personal breakup. Like I do think just going private is kind of like, this is for my selected people, not anyone that I'm going to be in a professional setting with. Yeah. Unfortunately, we just don't live in a world where you're not, you know, you can,

people in a professional setting are going to totally like, be like, oh, I love that this person is just so open about all of their emotions and like, I feel connected to them. Like, that's not what people are looking for when they're looking to spend money and do business. They're looking for controlled, predictable. Right. Accountability. Yeah.

Yes. So I think it's worth, I think it's worth one more conversation about that, be more explicit about the fact that it's a social media situation. And, you know, you can say you're free to share whatever you want privately, but maybe just be very mindful of who's watching these things. Right. Yeah. So let me on a separate note, and again, because I'm not like huge in social media, what is the benefit if you're not in media of being public and having to deal with this? Like if you're private. Right. And if some, if you're dating someone and they want to see your thing, just let them

request you. And then you can say yes. And I think there's a few different motivations. There's one in this situation, it seems like a little bit of. like a revenge thing. Like everyone is going to see how you wronged me. Right. Two, I think especially on someplace like TikTok, there's like a democratization of being viral. So anyone could really go viral.

And I think there's like a little bit of an attention, fame seeking like you could be the next big thing. Like I've seen so many crazy breakup stories that go viral because, you know, they just people, they get shared. and then the person, one, feels like they've gotten all these views and they've gotten all this attention or maybe then they become a TikTok star. Right. But if that's not what you're going, like I could see if that's what you're going for, right?

If you're like an influencer trying to build your brand. But if you're, I mean, I guess maybe everyone sort of or a lot of people have this like little how they start. Right. That maybe somehow that'll just happen to them. Yeah. Okay. I guess that's why.

Right. I think there's this promise of. or not this promise, but this kind of like, you could hit the jackpot, especially again, Instagram, maybe less so, but TikTok, I think you kind of just get, if you're like people are watching, you just get pushed and then you're, right? And now all of a sudden, you're, you know, selling skincare and, you know, highlighter. Yeah, you don't even need this job anymore. You can talk about whatever you want.

Yeah. So I think there's that element. And then I don't know. I guess that there's some people. who think of it is like I'm, you know, it's my like live journal. Right. I'm just being me. Yeah.

Everyone gets to see it. Yeah. I agree. Maybe one more conversation just about the social media piece, but at some point, you're beating a dead horse. Either you are going to like let this person go because they're not heeding the advice or you're going to just deal with it. But I agree.

One more conversation sounds like it might be worth it. just on this additional social media piece. Yeah. I mean, if you were hiring someone, would you do a little quick search for their social media just to make sure they were. Yeah, for sure. I mean, especially, yeah.

I mean, I've done that. When the kids were little and we were looking for babysitters, like I would look up everyone. And there were a lot of them where I was like, nope, just based on like without even scheduling the interview, just based on their social media. And the truth is, the babysitter that we have probably could be like doing body shots like on the bar, but I just don't know about it, you know? Right.

Which is still a different kind of person who does body shots at the bar and tells you about it. It's, I mean, it is a little bit of it. I'm saying even those two people who do the same activities, the way that they, I think it's more about like the understanding, the self-awareness of the fact that they are being seen in a certain way is an important differentiator, even if. two people are doing the same thing. Right. You know, like there's talking shit to your friend and there's talking shit on the internet. Those are like technically both just talking shit. But I think it's a different kind of person who does both, right?

Yeah. There's an implication of a personality type that is more than just like you're saying, what it is that you're doing. The fact that you don't, you know, you don't care that anyone that it's out there is like a different personality type that I think. That personality type makes some people a little nervous. Right. Yeah.

All right. Worth a conversation. Give it a go. Don't say you're embarrassing me, even though she is. All right. Let's do a betchaicist. This one is a voicemail. Love a voicemail.

Love ethical dilemmas. Let's get into this week's. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordina. I love the show. I'm calling with help navigating a kind of tricky situation that I know I'm about to be in. It feels like a dumb question, but here we go. I'm in my 30s.

My mom is in her 60s, and I have a toddler. And my mom is coming to visit. We haven't seen her in a few months. And she told me she's been on those unsec. She kind of mentioned it in passing months ago. My mom has had a really kind of, I think, like bad relationship with weight and eating and her body for as long as I can remember. And I think, like, a lot of probably millennials with moms who are in that demographic and kind of age range,

it's been, like, a tricky navigation of talking about food and body and stuff with my two-year-old because I don't want to repeat kind of some of the patterns that I felt like I grew up with those conversations. Anyway, I'm curious about how to navigate. Like, I anticipate her body might look different. the last time I saw it and I want to be supportive because I know that it's like a really big deal to her

and she's been trying really, really hard to lose weight for a long time and so I'm torn between acknowledging it but also like that's not something I would comment on in kind of like my family now especially around my kids like I wouldn't say like

you look great to mean that someone looks thinner or kind of comment on someone's like body size at all that's not really like how I live my life now, but I also don't want to like ignore it because I know it's important to her. I don't want to, you know, make it, like, it kind of feels like I'm almost saying like I'm better than you. If I kind of like say anything affirmative about, you know, how we kind of think about bodies and the smaller aren't. bodies aren't bigger better than bigger bodies anyway I'm overthinking it I'm curious how you

would handle kind of both trying to acknowledge and validate like her hard work and um towards something that she cares about while also balancing it being something that like we don't care about in our house and and how we talk about that around our toddler okay thank you I appreciate it right good email yeah this was a tough one it's interesting my instinct was probably not the best psychological way to handle this which was to be like compliment your mom when no one's around. Right, right, right, right. Just tell her she looks amazing when your daughter is napping.

Right. Which is probably not like, you know what I mean? That's like an avoidance pushing it under the rug thing. So I wanted to hear your, that's probably, if I'm being honest, that's probably what I would do if I was in her situation where I didn't want her mom to feel like she, you know, wasn't getting the validation or the positive reinforcement that she was craving, but also didn't want the daughter to take any of that in. So that's your, that's my real world advice. But let's, let's hear the real probably healthier way to do it. No, well, I do think there's something healthy about that way, which is like, I'm not going to change you. Right. Like I, just because I'm doing my family differently, I don't need to like pull you into that and try to change you to agree with the way that we're doing it.

because I don't know her mom. She didn't give us a whole background, but there's a good chance that she's not going to change after 60, right, some odd years. So I do think there is something psychologically healthy about being able to just be like one option is, I'm not going to say anything when you first walk in. And when my daughter's not there, I'm going to say, oh, you look beautiful or like, you look great or how's it going with that? You know, how are you feeling some, you know, curious question or compliment or whatever you want to do?

Just to kind of be like, we're doing us, you're doing you, we don't have to agree because that sounds like it might be challenging. Right. The other option is, you know, I don't know, maybe you do want, maybe this is an opportunity to share with your mom and to share how you're trying to do things differently and why. I guess it depends on your mom and the relationship that you have with her. If you think she can handle that type of conversation where you, you know, kind of can say something nice about how she parented you and how that, you know,

um, like something nice that she did and then also be like, but in this way, I think that because of, you know, you making comments about your body or whatever she wants to say, I'm going to try something different. And so I,

you know, I want my child to feel like no matter what size their body is, that they're perfect. So I really don't like to comment on bodies at all. You know, even with you like I loved you at the weight that you were at before. I love you now, you know, just however she feels. To say that to her mom, not with her child in the room, like as a private conversation,

maybe it sounds like, because the answer that you came up with is the, like, she knows it. She's kind of like, this is a quote, stupid question. I don't think it's a stupid question. I think it's a great question. But I do think there is a very easy way around this, which is just don't talk about it in front of your daughter. And you can either compliment her or not. outside of that.

Right. But the reason I think she wants, she's bringing it up and it's upsetting her is because maybe there is some thing that she wants to communicate to her mom about this or she wants her mom to get on board or maybe there's a fear. I mean, I've dealt with this a lot with just having kids and having older people with different mindsets about a variety of different things come in and kind of spoil your, you know, moral essence. Yeah, moral essence.

that you have with your kids. I can't even count the number of times that I've had a grandparent or an in-law or, you know, a family member come in and say something or I'm like, you know, we don't talk about people's body shapes, you know, like I have to kind of make that correction and does it, it's not going to, here's the other thing. It's not, if you're creating the climate that you're creating in your home, you're one comment to your mom or not. And I think you shouldn't do it in front of your kids.

kids, if that's what you're doing. But that's not going to change anything. If there's seven, you know, the majority of the time is not that. I don't think one little comment is going to sink in. It's like the repetitive comments and acknowledgments and dieting and what are you eating and what are you not eating and how do you look and all that. That's going to seep in over time. Yeah.

I agree. I think it's hard because it's like you want to, I think that what I said probably about the, and what we both kind of said about telling the daughter something. or telling the mom something when the daughter's not there can feel like you're being a little inauthentic like you're saying one thing to one person but trying to give another, like you're validating something that you,

it doesn't feel like there's like a, probably there's like a cognitive dissonance of this is what I believe, but I'm telling you what you want to hear. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I mean, it's true. That doesn't feel good.

And she can choose the other route if that really doesn't feel good of like, I just want to share with you how I've been dealing with body image stuff. Or you could even just be really authentic about it and just say like, I can tell you lost weight. How do you feel? Right. Which is a way of acknowledging it without saying you look great or you look amazing or you look better or, you know, just kind of like I could totally tell you lost weight.

That's just a fact, I'm sure. if that's the fact, how does it feel being in a different body and make it more like a curious conversation and maybe it'll go in the direction of what perhaps you want to share with her about how you're doing things differently. And it might be good to share it with her so that she doesn't, like I said, I've dealt with this a lot where people make comments on my kids' bodies. And this might help kind of like hold that off if you let her know, hey, this is kind of what we're doing. and you have a toddler right now, like they all are kind of the same.

But within the next decade, your toddler's body is going to grow and change and be different. And it might be good to let your mom know, like, I'd appreciate it if you would just have like either no comments about their body or, you know, just positive comments.

Right. Whatever. However she wants her to handle it. It might be good to say that now. Yeah. But you can't really control people. like parents and in-laws, they're going to make all kinds of comments that you can't control. I like that as a good middle ground. And I also think like the comments that parents make are probably,

especially if your kids hear them and are curious about them and feel that they're different from the messages they're hearing at home, I would imagine they would ask you about them, which is probably a good like lesson for them in dealing with not the idea that not all people think the same way about the things that they think about because they're going to go out to the world and whether a comment is said in front of you and you hear about it or it's a kid in their class with a different upbringing or anyone they encounter in the world is going to say stuff that feels different than what they hear at home. So that's probably a good practice run for you kind of being able to explain, well, this person thinks that and we think this. Totally. Yep,

because you can't. You can't control it. Like I've, you know, there's just so much body image stuff and, you know. On TV, even like whatever it is. The culture is heavy and large. So in your bubble, you can make it what you want, but they're going to go to school

and they're going to hear comments from other kids or other parents. If they go to a play date, like you can't control it all. And it is great opportunity to be able to be prepared of like how you're going to handle when they bring, if hopefully they bring it back and say, oh, this person said this and it made me feel away.

and just open up that dialogue with them because you can't keep them in a bubble, unfortunately. Right. Love that. All right. Well, good luck. Yeah, good luck. It's a great question. Good question.

Yeah. For sure. All right. Let's do some intentions. I will read them. And again, thank you for leaving a voicemail. If you want to leave a voicemail, the number is 646-363-6294. Or you can email.

If you want to prefer email method. Okay. Let's do some intentions. My daughter is nearly three and a half years old, bright, verbal, and developing beautifully. She's the kind of kid who can explain what her body is telling her and remembers everything you say. She doesn't have any other delays or notable behavior issues. We've been working on potty trading for about a year. She's completely capable of peeing and pooping on the potty.

She's done both many times. But she struggles with withholding. After a clean out about three weeks ago, her constipation is resolved. But emotionally, she still can't seem to let go. Sometimes she will try willingly but can't release. Other times she refuses to sit or even withholds pee until she can't anymore. Then she ends up with accidents or waits for her nighttime pull-up. What makes it so hard is that she wants to be potty trained. She doesn't want to wear pull-ups during the day and she feels embarrassed when she has an accident, even though we've been completely calm and supportive about it. She's also immune to all the typical hacks, sticker charts, bribes, blowing bubbles, relaxation tricks, nothing seems to override the anxiety her body has built around the potty. especially tough because she's one of the last kids at her preschool who isn't fully potty trained. Everyone tells me she'll do it when she's ready, but that advice feels impossible to hear after a full year of effort. I know she can do it. She just won't. It's exhausting to stay calm and encouraging while also cleaning up accidents and watching her body fight its own urge.

I'd love some advice about how to set an intention to stay patient through this process and how to not feel like I've somehow failed as a parent because my child isn't there yet. Thanks so much for the help. her daughter needs an intention too. Sounds like it's a mental game. You know what? It's, you don't realize that with potty training, it's this whole power struggle and,

you know, the people around you have, it's interesting. Coming from the first email, like kids absorbing the reactions of everyone around them and like how excited they get when you go on the potty and like, you know,

maybe just disappointed when you don't. or like everyone's all involved in this thing. All the people around you are all involved in this thing that's like very personal and your body. So it can get. A lot of pressure. It can get really intense and they've been doing it for a long time. So, you know, this has been probably you go to the bathroom multiple times a day for a year.

So this has been like a big thing for the daughter and for the parents. So I could see why the mom's getting frustrated. the daughter's feeling sounds like overwhelmed with the whole thing. And yeah, I don't think she's, you know, I think your doctor is the best person to probably help you. I'm not an expert in this, but I do think maybe just like taking a little break from the whole thing might be helpful to just kind of like react less, you know, like don't make a big deal about it.

If she goes in the, you know, if she wants to hold it and go in the, in the, in the nighttime Like maybe give her a week of just like do whatever works for you. Do whatever you want to do. We're not going to make comments about it anymore. We're not going to get involved in it anymore. More so as just an exercise in everybody just kind of letting go a little bit. No pun intended. That's part of like, you know.

Yeah. I think even if this isn't a method to get her trained, it's just an exercise. and I'm going to release my need to control this situation as a parent, which I totally get why she wants to go there. And this is my biggest, having been a mom for 13 years, my biggest takeaway is like everything in the moment feels like a big deal, like these little moments of like my child's not potty train, my child's not developing in this way. my child bit someone at school or my child had a tantrum or they won't eat these foods or they'll

only eat those food like it just I think right we tend to get all twisted up about it and then really lean in with like maybe even some subtle or subconscious pressure that then the kids feel and this is I only know this because I lived it like I and I still live it to this day but the biggest takeaway is like, this will pass. Like, this is just a moment. It doesn't reflect. And the only way to get to that point of this will pass is to take away that meaning, like, that this has, is a reflection on your parenting. It's right. It's just a moment. And that would give her permission to do the like, all right, we're just going to go back to diapers for the week. Yeah. Or whatever it is. Do whatever you want, whatever you want to do. You want to, you know, you want to save it for the nighttime.

You want to go in the diaper. Let's just take a little break because I think it might be a lot of pressure. And I, this is the other trick that I do a lot with general life things, but parenting things, especially, like when I feel like there's something really intense happening in the moment, like one of my kids is really upset or they feel like they're not fitting in like with the, like, this is like a timeline thing. It sounds like, speaking of timelines, like you're like, oh, I'm 30. and I should be pregnant.

And she's like, oh, my child's, you know, three and a half and they should be potty trained. Right. And all the other kids in the class are potty trained already. Yeah. We're like comparing ourselves to everybody else. Sometimes what I like to do is like imagine myself. It's a little morbid, but like I do it. Like at the end of my life, I'm like 99 years old and I'm laying in bed and it's going to be like

my last moments and I'm looking back on my life. or even as a ghost, I'm like floating into this room with me and this child that's having this issue, whatever it is. And I'm just watching it like as if it's, you know, 80 years from now. It's just a moment. It's just like a parenting moment. And there's going to be thousands of them instead of in the moment. You're so into this tunnel vision of like, this is determining the value of.

of myself and my child and their path in the world. And then you step back and you're like, I was in that house. Look at how little she was. Look at how young I was. I was just being a mom. We were both doing the best we could. Right. Like the zoom out thing.

Zoom out and just realize like she's not going to go in the diaper forever. She's eventually going to get potty trained. I know it's hard when you're in it. but I do think with these parenting things, it's very, especially for moms a lot. And I think this is why this affects, I'll call it moms or like the primary parent, it affects them a lot more because their identity is very wrapped up in being a good parent. So a lot of this, I think, comes down to that fear of like, I'm not doing something right. Why is my kid the one that's not potty trained, you know?

It's more of their identity. Yeah. Often. Yeah. Yes. So I think if you can recognize when that's happening, and I was going to say about this meditation that I'm doing in my groups that I think is really helpful, it's not mine. It's from Tara Brock.

She's my guru, my teacher. Like, I go to her for a lot. She does this meditation called the rain meditation. So it's R-A-I-N. It's four steps. Recognize. Okay. So you recognize, like, something feels.

big here, right? Like she just pooped in her diaper or she's, you know, whatever. I could tell she's uncomfortable. She's with, she's holding her poop in or whatever. Like something more than that is stirring up. So R, I recognize it. A, I allow it. Okay. Come on in. Whatever you are. Emotion. Come in. Let me feel whatever this is. I'm not going to push it away. Yeah. And then where you're moving is like I, which is investigate. What is this? Fear. What is like the allow is just like soften your shoulders. Relax your face. Like let this emotion be.

And then the eye is like what? A little bit of what is this? A little bit of like I have this. I'm not a good mom. I have this thought I'm not a good mom or I'm afraid she'll never get potty trained. A little bit of that. And a lot of it is just like literally looking for the emotion in your body. My shoulders are tight.

I have butterflies in my stomach. I'm tight in my chest and just like noticing what this feels like. And this is a crash course. it, that may probably not perfect. And the last one, N, is nurture. And that's where you give yourself that intention. And you kind of put your hands in your heart and you say, I am a good mom. I'm doing the best that I can. Right. And just tell yourself something that's like nurturing to yourself. And you can do this for anything. I like that. Yeah. And my therapist kind of, I think like she didn't call it this, but I think she's done this.

And something she's used for N was kind of like, what would you tell a friend who told you they were having this issue is sort of like the N? Like you wouldn't be like, yeah, she's never going to get potty tree. This is going to be your whole life forever. No, it's because you did this and it's because you messed her up in this way. Right, right. That's not someone who cared about you would sell it.

So it's like, what would someone nurturing you say? Yes. They would say you're like exactly what you just said. like you're a good mom. It's going to happen eventually. Yes. Whatever the messaging that would make you feel better would be. Totally.

And this is a good way to just kind of do that for yourself. It's like a little mini therapy session. If you drag that whole process out over 20 minutes, which is what we're doing in the group. And then we're talking about what we're figuring out about ourselves there and what our themes are there. But you can do this for yourself as like, why is this tweaking? like this apology thing, if that's something that was bothering you. Like, you can do this for that. Like, why is this bothering me?

Like, what is it really that I'm worried about here? And how can I just nurture myself and say, okay, you did the bet you sent the text, you called, you did the best you could. You're a good friend. You know, whatever it is that you need to hear. But I think for her, I mean, there's that. And then the intention that I wrote is this is not a reflection of my parenting. It's just a moment in time.

I use that all the time. Like when my kids are bickering and they're being mean to each other or when they don't seem like the school calls because they forgot something at school for the fifth time and I start to think, oh my gosh, what am I doing wrong? And maybe I need to get a chart with a board and I need to make sure that they remember and they're not going to be organized and how are they going to. This is not a reflection of my parenting. It's a moment in time.

And then you can kind of, when you're a little bit calmer about it, I think they then get calmer about it. And with time, most of these things work themselves through. Call us back when she's seven if this doesn't work. And yeah, let us know if you try the rain method, how it works out for you. If you like it, what issues you had when trying it, let's hear it. Yes, would love to hear. If anyone out there tries this, would love to hear how you like it.

Like it, there's many, you can find a lot of media on this. If you type in Rain Meditation, Tara Brock, who created it. And it is basically, I mean, I love her. It's a great meditation. But it is kind of what you do in therapy, right? You recognize what's bothering you. You sit with someone who allows those feelings to exist. You explore what is this really and how do I feel my feelings of my body?

And then you're kind to yourself and you nurture yourself. Right. This does sound like what you were saying, but going back years from this podcast is like feeling your feelings. This sounds like what that sort of looks like in a healthy way. Yeah. And it's like, you know, if you find a meditation, like a recorded version of this, it's like walks you through like a quick little therapy session.

If you don't have your therapist or you don't have, you're not in therapy. It's like a quick version of this. I like the longer ones, like 20-ish minutes, but anything helps. All right. Let's do some triggers. All right. We got a Halloween one, which I love. You want to read our first one?

Yes. This is a good one. Okay. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I'm a huge fan of the podcast and love your insights. I'm a day one listener and I look forward to this podcast every week. Thank you. On to the Triggered.

I just moved into a new neighborhood and while my husband was out for a jog, he stumbled upon these Halloween decorations. See attached picture. Should we talk about the picture? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the picture is like four makeshift hanging.

It looks like a family, like a hanging family. Yeah, it's like two kids and two adults. Right. Who are, who are being hung like from the garage. Yes. From the gutter above the garage. From the from the gallows of the garage. So it's definitely, I mean, they're not like, there's no like faces on that.

They're covered with like a cloth, the faces. But they're like dressed as like, parents and children and they are definitely hanging right from the group they definitely looks like like the gallows of someone of people of a family hanging yes okay so that's the picture it's um we'll talk more about the severity of it okay but yeah it's there's no blood there's no like you know it's just but it's i think the most triggering part is that it's like two kids yeah and then two adults it's like there's like small dead children hanging from your garage. And it's not like super graphic.

There's no like facial expression. Right. But like it's a little disturbing. I'll give you that. Okay. Okay. After consulting with the group chat, we all agreed these decorations were pretty disturbing and wildly inappropriate

considering we have an elementary and middle school inside our neighborhood. The middle school kids probably love it. Yeah. All four are haunted houses and make believe creatures, but this just seemed too real. and I didn't appreciate it. It was all out in the open for everyone walking by the sea. At least with haunted houses, you have the option to go in,

and sometimes there are even age restrictions. After getting worked up all over again from telling my friends, I reported the Halloween decorations to my HOA. The HOA responded with this. Good afternoon. At this time, there are no established guidelines for holiday decorations regarding what may and may not be displayed. However, I have attached a violation complaint

form that you may complete and submit. This will allow the committee and or the board to review your concerns and determine whether guidelines should be created for future use. A few days later, before filling out the forum, I got another email from the HOA with the winners of the Halloween decorating contest. I quickly went to check if the House in question made the list. Sure enough, it was under the category, most terrifying, with an asterisk saying they were the winners last year and it was just posted here for viewing purposes. After the dust had settled,

my triggered went from a five to a two, mostly because it's easy for me to avoid this part of the neighborhood entirely and my son is still a baby. And now I know which house to avoid for the future, L.O.L. But if I did live on this block, I think my triggered would be a lot higher. So am I being the Karen like my husband tells me or were my actions justified? Should I still fill out this form? my husband told me not to fill out the form since he thinks it could store up drama or create retaliation. What would you guys have done, if anything? Quick note, there were other decorations to the right of the house with other morbid slash

dead bodies like one body hanging upside down over a fire. But this section was the most triggering to me. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you. This is funny. This is a good one. I actually, this is almost like a good ethical dilemma. I'm like, it is hollow.

Halloween. Right. I see both sides of it. I see like, all right, we're getting into it. Like, we're going, we're going there. And I mean, yeah, it's a little intense, I would say, the idea of it. Like, I don't know where the, where's the line? Yeah. If you had like a mutilated body, like a, like a like a shift mutilated body. Would that be okay? Like, I would not want to be the HOA making up the, you know, guidelines on what is or is not okay. for Halloween decorations. I mean, I guess I could say maybe like dead children could be like a line. No dead children. Has to be like dead humans over the age of like 18.

Maybe we could say that. But like there are people that put up like I still remember taking the girls when they were little. We walked up to this house and they were like too creepy, too creepy. And they like ran back out. And so we left. was like on actual Halloween that wasn't like in the neighborhood before but look if this was my next door neighbor maybe I would feel differently because you have to like look at it all every day yeah and your kids are going to eventually see it and potentially be disturbed by it but like

if you have to walk around to go to this house to see these I don't think it's that triggering like just don't go there and your kids are not going to see it. And honestly, it was up against the garage. It was like down the driveway against the garage. So it wasn't like this was right at the edge of the street. Like I don't think most kids would might even really know what that is or look for it. It wasn't like a flashy, scary thing that was like right at the edge. Yeah. Right. It's hard to, it's hard to know where the line is. Even like, I mean, the line could be a lot less for some people. and other people might think it would be totally innocent. Like I've walked past houses that have like whole graveyards in their front yard.

I'm looking right now across the street. They have like a full graveyard. A super creepy like, yeah, full graveyard with like some scary pumpkin carvings. Like I do think the line is like a little blurry over like what's disturbing to someone. It might not be disturbing to someone else. And some people like love it. Some people are like, yeah, this is really getting me in the mode. Like, I love this stuff.

And it is their personal house. So I think, like, that kind of stuff in a public venue would be a lot. But I guess it's like, it's your house. Yeah. If it was, again, but I agree. I think I'd feel a little different if it was my neighbor. And I had to look at it all month, not just on Halloween. Yeah.

Halloween itself is just such a, I mean, I love it. It's fun. Like, it's one of my favorites. But it's so weird. Like, if we, if I was an alien and I was like, what is this thing that they do? where they just celebrate death and creepy, scary things. And like, it's really pretty weird. Like, oh, another, so you know, we love Six Flags.

Like, me and the kids go there all the time. By the way, I saw an article that said that Travis Kelsey is like spending a bunch of his money to like help Six Flags survive. They're like about to go out of business. And allegedly Travis Kelsey. It's saving them. Another reason why we, Brooks is a big chiefs fan. So another reason why we love Travis Kelsey in this house.

He's saving six flags. Wow. True hero. But we went there the other day. And the kids are a little older. I'm like, maybe we'll go at night. This was in September. It wasn't even October yet.

And they have like a super creepy. Fright fest thing, which I just thought was like creepy decorations. But what it actually is is like people dressed up really, really well. Like the makeup is insane. These people look like zombies or whatever like creepy characters. And they walk around like in this creepy zombie thing. And then when the kids would walk by, they actually would like chase them. Like not only jump, but like chase them up the street.

So Brooks was freaking out. Like he's only seven and they're like running after him. And I started like I was like the Karen. I was like leave him off. That's enough. I started freaking out too because it was, I mean, it was. And when they felt like they were scared, he was kind of like, they would like come in close and like whisper and like make comments in their like all the kids.

Like, where are you running to? Like just like it was creepy. Right. But there's probably people who like love that. They're like, I didn't, I didn't know. But so I ended up like, because we wanted to still go on the rides. I just didn't want to be harassed by these zombies. So I'm like walking through the park like with my hands over his eyes and like his

sister's hands over his ears because they're like talking to you. But he's fine. Like he's not traumatized. Like he made it through. We're all okay. But yeah, Halloween's weird and creepy and people get super into it. If this was the neighbor, I would give. this like a six, but because it's not, you have to go over there to see it.

And her kid, like she said, her kid is like too young to even know what that, what's going on there. Yeah. So because of that, I'll give it a two. I'd give it like a two, three because it's so far away. Yeah. But I could see. If I had a creepy thing right next door to my house and my kids were like afraid to go outside or like fearful it was creating like difficulty in our daily activities, then I would give it a higher score. This is kind of, I think it's disturbing to her. It's almost like a handmade's tail kind of. Yeah, it does have handmade's tail vibes, like a little dystopian or something. Yeah. I don't know. I'm trying to think, I feel like the HOA letter is a little aggressive, like her husband said, like if it was my next door neighbor or someone on my block, I might just go tell them.

Like, I might just go, like, say it to their face. Like, I love, love the decorations personally. My kids are freaking. My kids are freaking out. Like, I don't really know what to do. Like, can we come to a solution here? Right. But I think if your kids are actually freaking out, which in this case, they're not.

Right. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, I think if it was, if the scenario was like, I have kids who were like, of age, where they know what they're seeing and they are freaking out and I live close to it, then I think my first line would be to speak to my neighbor directly. Right. And if they were like dismissive or didn't care, I might take it up with the HOA. But I think for a person who lives like several blocks away that doesn't see it,

that hasn't said anything, I think it's a little carony to that for that to be like your first order of aggression. But how funny though that she complains and then they win an award. So obviously, if they're doing a contest around this, neighborhood loves it. Neighborhood loves it. Like you're in the wrong, unfortunately. Why would they ever think that anyone didn't let? They're getting like all this positive reinforcement for it.

They're winning contests. Yeah. But I can see why that's triggering to see that after you complain like they got an award. Yeah, no wonder they were like, yeah, we have no guidelines because she didn't write this in the HOA before. Because we love it. Right. Yeah. That's funny.

Halloween's so weird. Well, now she just moved to the neighborhood. She's getting to know it. This is where you moved. Yeah. And look, it's going to be part of your children's upbringing.

Maybe they'll, you know, I do think that sometimes that stuff can make them stronger. And eventually like the same girls that are like, too creepy, too creepy. Now they're like, you know,

Lila's dressing up as like the it clown. And, you know, Right. And I see that with little kids around like my dog where it's like some people like my sometimes like Ronnie will like jump on little kids to come over. Or he's like excited and he's like jumping around and they're like terrified. But then other kids who are around big dogs a lot like are kind of into it or unfazed. And so it's a little good in some ways good for desensitizing. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Yep. that might be the path you have to go in this neighborhood if they're giving out awards for like you know what was the award they won? Oh, most frightening. Most terrifying. Most terrifying. Right. If you're giving that out, you're probably swimming against the tide here.

The neighborhood encourages this. Yes. All right. Good luck. Let's do another one. All right. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi.

I'm a huge fan of your podcast as well as a longtime listener of you up since way back in 2017. I want to say I'm excited to be writing in, but wish it wasn't because I'm triggered. Here's the situation. I got engaged to my now husband in June, 2024, and we were married last month in September 2025. I'm very type A, and I had my venue, dress, and florist all booked by early October 2024. The florist that we selected owned her own shop and had been in business for 30 years with very

positive reviews on Yelp. Our wedding was at a restaurant with only 60 guests, so we basically needed around 30 bud vases and a few bouquets, nothing out of her wheelhouse. We live in a large and expensive city on the East Coast, and nearly all the florists I contacted had a $10,000 minimum spend, which was far more than we needed. I was thrilled to learn that this well-reviewed florist had no minimum, which isn't to say that her pricing was cheap, just not exorbitant. I will admit I was a bit taken aback when she didn't have a formal contract for us to sign, like all our other wedding vendors. She told me she'd be happy to sign a contract that I wrote up, so I did that, using online

examples and referencing floral contracts from my friends. My mother insisted she was just not a business type. It was clear she loved what she did and had run a successful business for many years. In my contract, I included a clause about what would happen if she became sick or for some reason could not prepare the flowers for our wedding. The clause indicated that she would need to identify a replacement for us and help us transfer the services to that replacement. Fast forward to the last week of June 2025, the florist emails me to tell me that she will be closing her business on July 31st and will no longer be able to work my wedding, which is happening in mid-September.

She lists about three to four florists in the area and says they'd all be good replacements and that she will refund my $300 deposit. She doesn't offer anything more to me. I was horrified. All of the florists in her list were ones I was quite familiar with. I'd contacted them all. not only was I sure they would all be booked this close to my wedding, but all of them had a very high minimum spends far outside what we needed. Luckily, there was one other florists we visited that didn't have a minimum spend. I called them within 10 minutes of reading the email, practically weeping, and they were able to service my wedding date.

But to me, this was pure luck. I was happy to have secured a vendor, but kept thinking how shitty it was that my original florist had effed me over and thought, giving me a list of popular florists was doing anything for me. Now, I know what you're thinking. Okay, it sucks. She's triggered, her florist canceled, tail as old as time. Except this one has a twist. Let's find out.

The florist had closed her shop whose Instagram account is, of course, public so I can see it, continues to post pictures here and there of events she's provided flowers for. A wedding shower, a baby shower, something for the community meeting. I get it. These aren't weddings. But my wedding was not a large affair. I truly believe she could have serviced it, and I know I shouldn't look at her Instagram, but gosh darn it, I just can't seem to help it. No one's perfect. I get it, but to me,

this woman just lacks scruples and is a liar. The florist who did cover my wedding was amazing, and I loved my flowers, but I still find myself seething at this original florist. So how triggered can I be yours? Floral Fury. Oh, okay. She seems to really be letting this take over her life a little bit. Yeah. I think the bigger, the bigger issue is that she seems like she lied to her because she probably could have done it, said she was going out of business, but is still doing some work. So that's the part that's tweaking her. I'm assuming, like, because she wasn't fully clear. Is it like she's posting stuff that she's done in the past or stuff that she's continuing to, that she's continuing to do? I guess was my question. I'm pretty sure it sounds like she's posting,

she wouldn't be upset if she was posting stuff she's done in the past. Maybe it's unclear. Maybe. Maybe she's assuming that it's new stuff and it is. But she said she was closing her business. That's the part. So is she lying about going out of business? Yeah. That's the triggering part. I mean, I think all in all, I agree with her original sentiment.

She canceled. You had a clause for her canceling that she had to find you someone else. She gave you other people. If in those other people, nobody was able to do it, you would have then the right to say, hey, you gave me all these people. No one's available. You're supposed to find a replacement. So like, go for it.

What are we going to do? What are we going to do? Like, these people have a $10,000 minimum spend. That's not a reasonable replacement. And maybe she would have done the work for you and called around and found someone. You didn't give her the opportunity to do that because you did it and you found someone. I also don't think, I don't know, I could be wrong, I'm not in the wedding game, but like flowers for a 60 person wedding at a restaurant, like I don't think you need to have that person's whole day booked, right? Like, I don't think that's the type of thing where if they had another event that they couldn't, you know, maybe prepare those flowers for you the night before or somehow manage, if you said it's just a couple of bud bays and a few bouquets, like that that's not something that somebody could.

just do, like without a huge amount of notice. Maybe I'm wrong on that because I'm not in this wedding game. Right. Yeah. I don't know how difficult it would be to find someone to be able to do that or what the deal is. I do think, I think before getting all triggered, maybe I would have called her and asked her to like explain the situation. Yeah, it sounds like she saw it. It sounds like this was all an email. Yeah. Right. She emailed her. She saw it. She panicked. She immediately booked someone else. It sounds like the problem. To me, like that sounds like the problem was solved in like, she said like 10 minutes. Yeah.

So I can see being triggered that day. But I also think here's the thing. If she actually went out of business because she says in the email that that she was going out of business on July 31st. And then she's not out of business. That's triggering. Yeah. I think that's like a five or a six. If she's just posting stuff that she's done in the past,

not trying to gain new business, I think that's a lot less triggering. I think that's like a two or a three. Like she's going out of business. What is she like literally cannot, you know what I mean? Her 30-year-old business is closed and she didn't tell you the day before. Right. She didn't tell you the week before.

She did give you a couple months. It sounds like you were able to turn it around. I don't know what else she could. If she actually was going at a business, I don't know what else she could have done. Yeah. And she didn't even give her the opportunity to say, hey, all these people have a $10,000 minimum, I need some more help. So, yeah, I agree.

It does sound like what's bothering her is that it does sound like this person is continuing to post pictures of their work. Maybe it's their personal life stuff. Like she's allowed to do that. If she, like, goes out of business for doing for-profit floral arrangements, but if she's like, hey, it's my best friend's bridal shower, I'll arrange the flower. for her or I live in this community and we're having a community meeting like I will bring the flowers to that. If these are like her personal projects that she's doing for herself or her family

and friends, I still don't know that that counts as like she lied about going out of business. Right. Maybe she's temporarily closed because of some sort of family or personal emergency. And again, she doesn't have a contract so that is a clue to you that she's not like running the most like smooth of operations here. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, I will validate it. It's annoying to feel like maybe she was lied to that she said she was going out of business

and she's still doing, you know, florals for what, for events. That feels. Right. Annoying. I guess if I were to her and I wanted to make myself feel better, I would think of it like whatever her reasoning was, she did not think that she was able to, do the flowers for my wedding to the best of her ability in the best way she knew how. And I think that it would be a lot more triggering to have someone phoning it in for something

you're paying good money for, for something that means a lot to you than for them to say a couple months out, I don't think I could do this. Yep. It stings in the moment, but you have time. She found a solution like this would be so much worse if this woman didn't. I'm sure this was like kind of an annoying email for her to write. I'm sure she wouldn't have taken on the project in the first place if she didn't originally think she could do it. I imagine she wasn't doing it because she has no scruples and she's a liar and she's just trying to fuck with people by.

Right. Her big goal is to like book a lot of people and then just cancel and see, like watch them squirm. Like that seems diabolical. I really highly doubt that that was her intention. Right. Yeah. I totally agree. I think that she, you know, whatever her reasoning are.

And I love your that way. that way of calming her, which is like, she could have just gone through it and half-assed it. And that would have been a way worse outcome than letting you know six weeks ahead of time. And, you know, it's funny. It's like, this is what I do think happens. And it's, I get it because the wedding guidelines say, like, you should have all these vendors booked like a year in advance. But I'm kind of like, if we didn't call this a wedding, if we called this like someone's 40th birthday party and you. and you just wanted the same amount of flowers at the restaurant.

Right. Would you still need a year to get just because it's called a wedding instead of a birthday? Like, would you still need to book your florist a year in advance? It doesn't sound like it was that big of a job. But because it's a wedding, it's made to be like this big devastating, like horrible thing that you would only have six weeks to get the flowers done. Right. It sounds like she's got big wedding planning energy on a small wedding.

Yes. Actualness like needs basis. Yes. Yes. And look, all the power to you, you're type A, you got it all done ahead of time. This was a little bump in the road. Sounds like you did figure it out within 10 minutes. It's the lying part that is triggering.

But I can see, like, let's say you have a photographer and they cancel for your wedding because it's a lot of pressure and they don't, you know, maybe they're having like a nervous break down and they don't want to commit to that. And then they post pictures of like their sister's, you know, baby shower in the living room. Like, I don't think it makes them a horrible person. Just means like it was a lower pressure event. They were able to handle it. That's their choice. Yeah. And they're not going to in the email be like, but just so you know in case you see something, I might be doing my sister laws wedding or something. Yeah. So I, if I were her and I was like seething, I would give myself a day.

I would still plans. I think she did the right thing. She got someone else really quick. Sounds like it was solved right away. But I would call her and say, hey, could you just explain what happened here? Yeah. If it's still bothering you, I know.

And I do think this happens a lot too, just in general where someone does something that pisses you off. And you get this like overwhelming like action energy against it, where she just like very quickly started like calling all these like, fine, I'll do it myself. kind of thing and then was like resentful about doing it herself when she could have gotten on the phone and said hey this is super disappointing i called all these places already they all have 10,000 minimums do you have any other ideas because i'm feeling right do you know anyone else that you

could refer that has a smaller minimum or if you know these people personally could you maybe call and ask them if they would do it at a smaller minimum just given that like it's kind of last minute and i'm really anxious about whatever like she didn't really do that So I think if she did that and she was told to like fuck off, that would be a higher trigger. Yeah. But since she didn't, I would give it like a three and a half. Yeah. I'll give it a three.

I'd give it a five that day. Yeah. I'd give it now that you're already married, the wedding is over. I think it's time to let go. Yeah. Well, I think when you are type A, people that don't do things in the right way are more that much more triggering. Because you're like, I would never do that.

That's the feeling. Well, that's why it's not, this probably woman was not a good match for her and her not having a contract in the first place was probably a good hint of like, I'm not working with someone who's really on top of doing things by the letter. Totally. Lesson learned. You've got to know yourself and the people that you're going to work best with. So, all right.

I did it. That's it. I think we did it. Well, thanks for joining. Thanks for all. I love the questions. Every week, I'm like, another one, another great, super relatable little piece of minutia of life that we can all relate to. So thank you for that. All right, that's our time. Great work today.