Oversharing - How To Change Your Attachment Style

Episode Date: October 25, 2022

How do you stop yourself from spiraling? This week, Jordana and Naomi start with an email from a listener who is convinced her boyfriend might break up with her. Jordana opens up about what helped her overcome her own struggles with attachment and change her attachment style. Is the key to strengthening relationships to remind yourself you’ll be able to take care of yourself no matter what? Next, they read a Betchicist email from a listener who is worried her friend might be in a toxic relationship. How do you provide space for others to share their true emotions without passing judgment? Finally, they answer a trio of Triggered submissions about a possible wedding crasher, a future Grandpa, and a boyfriend’s wandering eye. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham and I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going? How's your weekend?

Always good catch up. Yeah. Oh, seriously. This is our catch up time. Weekend was cool. After Talley's wedding, everyone got sick again. It's just kind of like how it goes. So everyone's, the kids have been taking days home, slowly recovering.

I think we're almost going to get everybody healthy and get back to life. But we had Dr. Michelle on last week. So we didn't really get to do a recap of the wedding or even really talk too much about that. I don't know if you have any, if you want to debrief. Yeah. That's a great point. It's weird. It feels like so long ago now, but it was just last weekend or the weekend before last weekend, whatever it was. I thought it went really well. Yeah. I was considering, you know,

I was telling, you know, I was talking about this on a few other podcasts. I feel like the security guard that our sister hired really kept everyone on their toes. Maybe. I mean, maybe it didn't do anything. There's no way to know. Right. But I do kind of feel like, just for context, if you don't listen to any of the other shows that I'm on, one of our sisters hired a security guard. just to make sure, not really for anything physical, but I think just for verbal, verbal assurances. Right. Yes. Physical is usually not an issue.

It's just these kind of verbal lashings that sometimes happen. But yeah, it's almost like I said that our other nephews, Briss, went really well because we were like in the presence of a holy figure. So maybe the security guard was like the pseudo rabbi that kept everybody in line. Yeah. You need a power larger than ourselves to keep us in check. That's true. I kind of like that for all family gatherings going forward. I feel like we should hire security for like Passover or Shoshana.

And, you know, I just think it kept everyone on their toes. It was a beautiful wedding. I had a really good time and it was really fun to like hang out and connect with everyone, especially since at my wedding, I feel like I was so like busy and had like so much going on. And also my friends there and everything else. like I didn't really get to do the bonding like for this wedding. So that was really fun for me. Yeah.

And you know, and John, our brother followed up after and sent the sweetest text where he was saying like I had the best time hanging out with my built in best friend group. That was so sweet. And I really feel like that's kind of what it felt like with everyone back together. I was telling someone this where it was kind of like, I feel like there's a lot of positives and negatives to every situation and having a lot of

siblings definitely has like both sides of it. But I did feel like this weekend was like one of the more positive aspect of all that. Like there's the whole weekend like there's someone to hang out with there's someone to talk to. And now there's so many nieces and nephews that like they are all like hang out with each other, which is just also really fun. So I feel like it was sort of like the best version of that big chaotic family thing. Yes. When they're definitely there are definitely times when it's much more overwhelming. But this was great. Yeah. No. And I think it's easy to focus on the negative stuff sometimes and it like makes for the best jokes. And it like, you know, it really, you know, it's like fun and funny to sit and like do all the commiserating.

But it's important to let the good stuff kind of settle in there too. And this was a really nice experience. So the weather was beautiful and it was pretty awesome. I mean, I have to say, because this is a therapy podcast, I did feel a little bit jealous that it went so much smoother than mine. Yeah. Mine was like a little bit of like the like tester wedding. And then everyone like learned from from those like issues that came up there and did it a different way this time. So I did feel like a twinge of jealousy that it went so smoothly and everyone did behave because I was like, I don't know.

I was just, I kind of felt like it would have been nice if I had had the same experience. Totally. And I hear you. Life isn't fair. I don't know. I think that happens too because I was one of the older ones. So I think, like, I had kind of a not so great experience. And then Josh was able to have, like, a pretty good experience.

And then you had not such a great experience. Maybe it's like every other, you know, like you kind of make the mistakes and then fix the mistakes. And then make the mistakes and then fix the mistakes. Yeah. And you like forget like the worst case scenario. You're kind of, I think if you haven't had one of these gatherings in a while, you're probably like, everyone will just like be fine, figure it out. And then you realize like, no, you actually need to like, we need the security guard. We need to put some...

You need the separate hotels. Yes. You need the wedding immediately when you get there so that everyone hasn't had all weekend to just like sit in their like dysfunctional brains. Right. Well, after this, we could start writing the handbook and just pass it down to the others who are still left. You know, we can publish it. It could be like the Bernstein Abraham guide to a dysfunctional family event.

Right. We're not the only ones. There are tons of people that, like, have this. My parents can't be in the same. That's what I'm saying. Issue. Yeah. Yeah.

Just lots of tips. All right. Let's do it. I love that. Be like a perfect engagement gift for your friend with a crazy family. Let us know if you would buy that in the reviews. We'll get to work. And if you guys want to write us an email about your dysfunctional family or any other

interpersonal issue that you're having, you can email. you can email oversharing at betches.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. But let's get into today's overshare. Should I read it? Yeah, go for it. Okay. Hi, Jordan and Dr. Naomi. I'm loving your podcast.

Thanks for all your help. My situation, I am definitely an overthinker, probably anxious attachment as well. I have been with my boyfriend for two years and I love him so much. He's my dream man. So thoughtful and supportive and sexy and funny. However, neither of us are great about being vulnerable about our feelings, and it's sort of firsted out of me last week. For context, I have some trust issues from previous relationships, especially about ex-girlfriends.

Because of this, I've been sort of hyper-vigilant about his most recent ex. They dated for six months five years ago, but then hung out slash hooked up casually during 2020 for a few months before we met. He posted a pick on Instagram last week for the first time in years, and she liked it. I completely blew it out of proportion, calling him asking if they still communicate and asked if he still loves her and wants to be with her over me. Obviously, this was a big jump to conclusions, and he assured me that she texted him occasionally, and he sometimes responds because they ended cordially, and it was so long ago. He doesn't want to be mean for no reason by always ignoring her when she texts about innocent things. After calming down, I realized that I do trust him and trust his judgment about that responding to an occasional text is no big deal.

I apologize from our reaction and ensure that I do trust him and suggested maybe we both work on better communicating how we feel about each other since I think that may be my underlying insecurity. He agreed and things have been back to normal since. However, now I've gone from obsessing over his ex to obsessing over if he's going to break up with me for overreacting so much. My question really boils down to, how do I stop myself from overanalyzing?

It's like my brain just goes back through data. And if he doesn't use as many exclamation points in text as usual or something as stupid is that I spiral and I'm convinced that he's thinking of ending things with me. I haven't brought this up to him as I'm trying to let things go back to normal and I realized how crazy I sound. This was our first real fight so hopefully he is understanding. We move past this, but do you have any tips for self-soothing and not obsessing about my relationship? Thanks in advance. All right. I think this is a super common issue and it really points, you know, she hit the nail on the head in the beginning where she wrote that she's an overthinker. So I think that this is

just the problem of the day for her probably and it's going like she noticed that she fixed the problem with the ex and now the anxiety is being projected onto something else so you know one of the things it brings up for me and I think this is helpful for most types of anxiety is identifying what your negative belief is about yourself it's almost like what we talked about with dr. Michelle where it's sort of like your thoughts 90% of your thoughts today are the same as what they were yesterday and the same as what they're going to be tomorrow. And a lot of times they're guided by this underlying belief that we may not even be aware of. So for her, I don't know what this belief might be.

I'm not worthy of love or someone's, there's always going to be someone out there that he's going to love more than me or I'm not good enough for him or there's some kind of this insecurity, you know, belief that she has about herself that I think if she can, kind of become aware of what that is, she'll see how it is being projected onto all these symptoms. This ex-girlfriend is just a place for her anxiety to land. This argument that she had with him is just a place for her anxiety and insecurity about herself to land. I think she's right that she probably needs to hear it a little bit more from him, like she said, that she asked him to, you know, better communicate the way they feel about each other. I didn't hear that that's

happening. She said they went back to normal. Right. So back to normal, didn't seem like it was making her feel super secure in the first place. Yeah. I definitely felt this way before a lot when dating, especially in the beginning stages of my relationship where I would overanalyze everything or like feel like if he was, if he was acting a little bit, like distracted, that he was going to break up with me and just like this constant fear or, you know, sort of like she said, like hyper awareness of any sort of subtle change. in attitude or mood or exclamation point or anything like that. And that can come from childhood stuff. You know, like if you have, you know, she wrote probably anxious attachment. You know, we've talked a bit about our childhood stuff and yours and specific. Sometimes you become so finely in tuned to somebody in tune with somebody else's emotions

because they have very strong emotions or because they have, you know, you never know what you're going to get or there's a fear of abandonment, the same way you develop any type of skill, you know, the same way you become a good athlete, the same way you become a good artist, the same way, you know, you become good at math. It's like you're just constantly practicing that. So when you're practicing that a lot in your childhood, trying to decipher what version of someone you're going to get, whether or not they're going to stay or they're going to go, anything that we practice, we're going to get very good at and anxiety and, you know, reading into other people's intricacies of their communication,

people started a lot of time practicing that skill, and it doesn't necessarily serve them well. Yeah, and I remember, like, the way that this was sort of manifest was, like, if there was, if there was a moment where, like, maybe he was irritated with me, or he was, like, we did get into, if we got into a fight, it was, like, the end of the world or just, like, this idea that, like, I couldn't stand him being upset with me, like, at all in any capacity, because of it felt like so dangerous.

You know, it's been funny. I remember the way that used to manifest in the beginning of our relationship is that when like, when we would get into like a fight, he would like to like decompress on his own and like have a little bit of time to himself. And that was just like to me just like I couldn't deal with that.

Like I was like it was because of the entire time that was happening. I was just in my head just feeling like it was over and, you know, worst case scenario and feeling like exactly like this. listener feels, there's just like the discomfort of not knowing exactly where you stand with someone or feeling like that no matter what they love you. Even if they're mad at you, they still love you. I think that's almost like the big key is like the idea that someone could be mad at you but still be there or still staying or not have like a huge negative consequence. Right. Which was very difficult to sit in because sometimes people do, you know what I

mean, like, people can love you and be mad at you or can feel like you're acting a little bit much for them. Right. Right. And still stay around. So I remember that being like a very difficult place to stay. And I think, I mean, there's a lot of research on attachments. But one thing I found to be true with my own relationship is that I do think your your attachment style can change with the right partner who is secure, who does reassure you that, you know, who does reassure you that they, you know, they can be upset with you while still loving you and still wanting to like stay around and that the relationship is like more solid than these like fights, which might go one way or the other. Right. If that makes sense. So yeah, it makes perfect

sense. So if, I mean, it's a kind of a tough question, but now that you're sort of on the other side of it, can you identify like what you think that belief, that underlying belief was that you were getting stuck in. I always say there's like these sticky thoughts, these sticky beliefs that keep pulling you in, even though it's the same thing you were thinking yesterday, the same thing you'll be thinking tomorrow. It's not really helpful. It's not really true. You have to try to find your way out of it. I think Mike gave you that reparative experience that took years to kind of for you to finally trust it after it was, you know, and then obviously once I think him just proposing and you guys getting married probably was like,

okay, now I can relax. Now I can really like relax into this. But can you identify what you think that belief might have been that you were telling yourself during these fights or during these moments that now you know is like probably not true or how maybe even a better question is like, what would have been a good belief that you have now that you would have liked to tell your earlier self?

Yeah. I mean, it's funny. It almost seems counterintuitive. But it's like, and I remember going through this with my therapist where it's like the belief. the belief that you're going to be okay, no matter what, even in the worst case scenario, and the confidence in yourself that, like, if the worst case scenario happened and this didn't work out, like, you would be okay.

Right. It's almost what keeps you acting more, like, normal. You know what I mean? It's like the, you would think, like, oh, the belief that he's never going to leave is going to make you, like, feel that your, feel that you can, you don't have to be so worried about every fight. Right. But it's actually almost the belief, and I went through this again with him. I remember it's the belief that you're worthy enough that like if he doesn't love you, someone else will. Or that like, you know what I mean? That you're going to be okay no matter what, no matter what. If you play out all the scenarios, like you're going to be okay, you can have the calm confidence to be like, okay, this is a fight and we'll work through it. And I remember my therapist saying to me, he's like, I love my wife very much. We have a great relationship. But if she left me tomorrow, I also know like I would meet.

someone else. Right. Like in the worst case scenario, like, and I think that allows someone to have a relationship where they're not constantly on the edge of danger or the feeling like they're, and it's probably like you said, like the self-worthiness to know that like you were competent, you are lovable. Yes. You're worthy of that. And I think that makes you less, I don't want to say crazy, but like. Right. Less reactive and avoidant and, you know, fearful and. And, you know, what you're pointing to brings up what I think is at the crux of a lot of mental health is, or anxiety, I should say, but, you know, other disorders too. Do you allow the external factors in your life to control how you feel or the internal factors in your life to control

how you feel? So if it's sort of like, if this person's never going to leave me, that's like giving a lot of control to the world outside of yourself. It's giving a lot of control to that person. it's giving a lot of control to, you know, whether or not another pretty girl walks by and catches his eye. It's giving a lot of control outwardly. But what you said, which is like, I will be okay no matter what, I am lovable, you know, all those things. That's taking back that control within yourself, which is hard. And I think what happens is people can, you know, like look in the mirror and say, I am lovable. I will be okay.

You know, you can do all those things. And like, yes, affirmations I think are great. But sometimes that's where you need to have sort of this like little bit of a thinking that brings you outside of the box that you're in to get you to believe those thoughts. You know, that's why I'm a big fan of any types of whether it's like even talking back about like a ketamine experience or whether it's just taking a walk in the woods and like being at one with nature, like people in those environments end up kind of breaking through the barrier of the box that they're in where they're like, okay, great, I'm lovable. Right, right, right. I'll be okay by myself. Uh-huh. Okay. You know,

like you almost can't believe it. So there is something there, I think. I don't know if you agree, but there's something about having an experience that's taking you out of like your everyday box that you're living in that can really let you believe those things. And that's important. It sounds like you got there by just being in the relationship long enough that you started to trust it unless there's something else that you think helped you get to that place. Yeah, it's that you trust the relationship. And I think by, again, I think it's the act of living through it is like you trust the relationship. You also see that you can get into fights and then you are okay.

Right. There's like the proof of concept, right? Right. So it's like you can see what happens when you get into this fight. And then when you do that, you feel more secure in the relationship. so then you can feel more confident in yourself. It's sort of like, and I think a lot of that comes from choosing the right secure partner.

Right. Or someone who actually does, you know what I mean? Like the best way to, like you said, like rationally, you kind of know, okay, yeah, fine, I'm going to be like, okay, like, fine. It's not going to be the end of the world. Rationally, you know this, but like emotionally, internally. How do you internalize that, right? Yeah.

And the best way to internalize it, I remember speaking to my therapist about this was like, he's like, I could tell you. you that you're like, you know, you're an attractive, funny, smart person who's like clearly going to meet someone. But like, I could tell you that a million times. The only way you're going to know it is by like seeing it for yourself. So when you live through it, that's when I think your beliefs can change because you actually have the experience to back up that belief. And I remember him saying because I would have a lot of like three monthers that didn't end. He's like, I like, I like these for you because they're all like proof that like you can date someone. It doesn't work out.

And then you can meet someone else. And then the more. And the more. And the more. And the more. And the you're going to be okay, right. Yeah. And the more proof of concept you have about that, that this person isn't like the end all be all, that you're going to be okay no matter what. That's what causes you to actually believe it, not like someone telling you that.

Totally. Totally. And I like that. I think there is growth to be had in the discomfort. Even like you, you know, it could either be the discomfort of, you know,

ending the three monther and like, you know, yeah, okay, I'm going to cry for two, three days. I'm going to be in my, bed, I'm going to be upset, I'm going to, you know, feel sad. And then knowing like, okay,

within a few days, I'm going to get up, I'm going to feel better. I'm going to be myself again and, like, developing that trust in yourself that you can, you know, that you're going to be okay no matter what. Or on a smaller scale, like you said, when you have the fight and he says, I need some time to cool off, you being able to tolerate not texting him right away or not, like, calling him 500 times or not asking him all the questions and like giving him his, and realizing, okay, I can just be okay in this moment, using the power of my own intention, using the power. Like we talked about a few episodes ago, feeling your feelings, you want to cry, great,

cry. Where do you feel it in your body? Where is this pain living inside of you? Where is this fear living inside of you? Go through that and then realize, okay, this can pass by itself without me needing to change him or the girl liking his pick on Instagram or I don't need to change and control any of that. I don't need to control how many exclamation points he uses. I just need to, like, be able to, you know, feel my feelings and then, you know, calm myself down and realize that I am in control

of changing my own emotions. And sometimes all you need is patience. Right. To get through that first initial, like, jolt of chemicals that are coursing through your bloodstream. You just need to, like, power through that with patience. As crazy as it, you know, like, instead of powering through it with, like, text messages and questions and calling all your friends and telling them everything that's going on, like just power through it with patience and stillness. I don't know if that sounds impossible, but it's, if you set a timer on your phone, half an hour, I'm just going to do nothing about this for a half an hour and see if I can make it go away without doing anything. And then, like you said, you build that trust. Like, this is going to heal itself if I can just let it be,

you know? Yeah. No, that's totally true, which is why I think, I think one of the most important things for getting yourself out of that right of being that kind of person is to choose the right part because I mean you see it like I mean in attached in the book attached or just in attachment theory you also see so much of the like the ancient avoidant trap you know where like the anxious person kind of gravitates towards the avoidant person which then instead of like instead of changing your feeling about the attachment making you more secure, it makes you more anxious because it reinforces that belief. Right.

If you're with, if you're anxious and you're with someone who actually like when you show vulnerability does pull away, which a lot of avoiding people do, then, and I used to do that. I used to date a lot of those kinds of people because I was like a track to those people. Right. Then you're like, oh, I was right. I should never share my feelings because this, because people will like run away and when I share my feelings. But then when you, if you, and if you start to date someone who's secure,

then that person responds positively to you sharing your feelings and makes you feel like better when you share your feelings. And you're like, oh, this is a like it just changes your belief system about that. But it's really hard because I, it's really hard. I think the hardest part about being an anxious dater and picking the right partner is that it does can feel kind of boring in the beginning. Right. I think to choose a partner that does, that validates your feelings.

that doesn't, it's not like, you're not chasing around that doesn't pull away. It can feel like a little bit more boring than the excitement of the dramatic pull and push of that like kind of toxic, anxious, avoidant trap. You're right. And it can, and a lot of times you're so used to, especially if you come from kind of dysfunctional upbringing or you've had some trauma in your past, you kind of, you're used to relationships being like that. You're used to relationships like eliciting all this intense emotion and not feeling safe and you're used to that dynamic. So you do have to get to a point. And it's a great, you know, we can talk about that at length, you know, at another time,

the idea of like how to remove yourself from that trap of like wanting the one who's playing hard to get kind of thing. And so many people get stuck in that. And I think it's sort of like, I need to look for even culture and society tells us like that butterfly, I want to feel butterflies. like what are butterflies? Butterflies are anxiety. You know, like... The spark is anxiety. Right, right. So like, I'm not saying you don't want to be passionate about somebody and I get that,

but sometimes we kind of mix everything all up in a big soup of excitement. And so sometimes you have to realize I need to get my excitement from other places besides my relationship. My relationship should feel safe and comforting and calming and soothing. And yeah, maybe if you guys go on a hike together, that's exciting. or you go on a vacation together, that's exciting. But just the interactions that the two of you are having on a daily basis shouldn't be like that exciting.

They should just be like, okay and fun and whatever. But it shouldn't be like, I wonder if he's going to say something nice to me today. You know, like that should be happening. A toxic relationship feels like extreme highs and extreme lows, like a drug withdrawal. Yeah. But a stable relationship feels like generally pretty good. But it's like, especially it's even better.

or packing for a vacation. That sounds like a really fun. And it's like when we have an argument, it's not so great, but it's not like you said. So bad. Yeah. Exactly. So I think I was going to say for this listener, I like that she's identifying that maybe she needs a little bit more verbal affirmation from him. So when we talk about being able to be vulnerable with your partner and communicate your feelings, what you don't want to do is communicate your feelings by accusing them and getting angry and like, you know, attacking them about a like on Instagram. or starting a fight about that. Sometimes that sounds like the safest, easiest way to communicate.

I need more verbal affection from you. But like she might just need to say, remember that conversation that we had about like being able to communicate our feelings for each other a little bit more often. I'd like to see if we can make more effort to do that because I think that would probably help her, like you said, have that reparative experience of I'm vulnerable and he leans in. Yeah. If he's the right guy for you versus I'm vulnerable and he lean. leans out, which maybe she's feeling some of that. And that's why she's anxious about it. Maybe he's

not really leaning in after she's expressed it. But that might also be because she didn't express it in the best way. She expressed it by like freaking out about his ex. So maybe she needs another conversation where she says like, you know. Well, that's where I think your method comes in really well of like the way that you express your frustration or anger or disappointment is such a big part of I think that's such a good point. Like it's almost the mix of those things, right? Where she has to like, she has to be vulnerable and come to him. But how does she do that in a way that actually feels like he's going to lean in?

Someone's much more likely to lean in. And for me, I would always express that sort of feeling with like anger and in the heated moment, like a lashing out, which usually makes the person kind of want to like go away even more. Right. Right. But if you come to him and you're just like, let's say you're caught. And I remember my therapist like walking through this and he's like, let's say you come to him. to him and you're like crying and you're just like oh I just feel so like if you make it about like yourself like oh I just feel like kind of insecure and I feel like pretty sad because I'm just like

worried about things it's due to this and you share a past vulnerable moment right your experience with someone X's then the person's not like if they're again if they're a nice good secure partner then they're like oh let me help you feel better like they want to like because you're not like attacking them but the only way to really be able to do that is what with what you're saying is like that meditative, let me take a minute, let me not just react to my initial gut, feeling of anger, process it, and like let it come out in a way that's a lot more tangible. And about you, like whatever that belief is, I'm afraid, I'm unlovable, I'm afraid that, you know, you're going to pick somebody else or whatever your personal fear is, once you feel

your feelings, you're going to get more in touch with whatever that is or you do some soul searching and then communicate that directly. Because 100%, accusing somebody or getting mad about like an external symptom of your own issue is just going to put that person on the defensive. So maybe you want to try again with this when it's separated from the pick posted on Instagram and it's just a separate conversation that has nothing to do with the picture. Maybe he would receive it in a different way versus him feeling like now he, you're expecting him to change his behavior or you think you're, he thinks you're mad at him

for texting her every blue moon and saying, you know, I hope you're all as well. You know, so now he's kind of like, now I feel controlled. Now I feel like I have the second guess all my behaviors. And he's focusing on that instead of focusing on like, okay, she needs to hear I love you more. She needs to get more affection for me. Totally. It's funny because she says, how do I, in her, the crux of her question is, how do I, what are tips for self-soothing? And I think that's also an anxious belief system is like, you have to soothe yourself because no one actually cares about you that much. Right. You can have someone else soothe you. That's like with the whole like benefit of a relationship is that someone's

there when you're upset to like make you feel better. Right. But now she's told herself that because she already was quote unquote vulnerable, which she was sort of but sort of not. And now she feels guilty and badly about herself like she's too much for him and she's overburdening him. So now she's like, now I have to do this all by myself. So now she's going to pull way back and do it all by herself. without, you know, re-approaching the conversation with him. So, yeah, I think that's a good point, too, that I think she's, you know, she feels crazy about approaching him that way. So now she's just going to totally back off where you need to find that middle ground.

Yeah. And I think the self-soothing can just be turned into, like, regulating my emotions to be able to deliver, like, my vulnerability in a way that's calm and rational. Oh, I love that. And then the other person, the other person should soothe you. Like, the self-soothing part is just you, like, taking a second to take, take stock of what you're feeling. That's the only real self-s soothing you should be doing. Right. I like that. I like that. Self-soothing is like just getting yourself in the mindset where you

know what you're feeling, your body is common off to deliver an expression of your own emotion in a way that your partner can hear it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I mean, we could do probably 10 hours on anxious attachment issues because I've had all of them. But we can get into that more a different day. but this was a great email. I completely related to it, and I'm sure a lot of other people did too. Let's get into our Betchesist email. I think this is one we get all the time

in slightly different forms very frequently. So I think this is a good one to get into. All right. I'll read it and then we'll see if we can help. All right. Hello, I first want to say I'm a huge fan of this and so many of the podcasts on Betches. I have a concern regarding a friend

that is choosing to stay with a partner, I think is on the cusp of being abusive. I live in a tourist destination and we used to work together for one of the theme parks here before she moved back to her home state to be closer to her family a few years ago. She met her now boyfriend of 10 months there on a dating app. When we talked about her relationship and the two other times they came down together, everything seemed great. I knew they got in a fight over the summer, but it seemed relatively normal.

They came down for her birthday this weekend a few weeks after moving in together. While moving in felt a little fast, we are on a lot of our early 30s and when she called me the day before we were supposed to meet up, I thought they may have gotten engaged. It turns out upon landing, she received a text from a male friend who also happens to be gay, and this set him into a rage because he's convinced she's in love with this friend. The friend is engaged gay in her former roommate. He refused to talk to her for two hours, then they fought from the time they went to dinner into the next morning around 8 a.m. He was drunk, threw and broke his phone, screamed at her, and horrified other people at the

where they were at, enough that they apparently tried to get her to leave with them. When we were together, she told me this is the fourth time this has happened and in previous fights done similar things. The texts in previous conversations were concerning to me, a close mutual friend and her mother. Within a day of this blow-up fight, they have decided to stay together and she's going to give him another chance. I think she told all of us and showed her hand to keep her from going back to him. I tried to be as blunt as possible when I told her this was not a decision I thought would end well, and she said she understood, and we left on good terms. The problem is now that she's far away. I don't know how to check in or be there for her or how to

support her through what seems to be red flags of what can develop into a more volatile situation. What do we all do to support someone that seems to be wrapped up in a bad situation? I think I was too honest, so if she stays with him longer, I don't know that I'll be informed of any further problems, and she is an adult, and he hasn't physically harmed her, so there's no. legal issues at play for now. So it is still her choice. Thank you for any ideas. Right. And then she gives a few more specifics that she prefers not to read on the show,

which is fine. But they definitely display some, I would say, like, toxic relationship traits. Right. If you read through those. Right. For sure. Yeah. There definitely seem like there are a lot of red flags here for,

a potential, I mean, I'm sure what she's afraid of ultimately is a domestic violence situation. If she didn't say that specifically, but that's what it seems like, or at the very least, you know, an emotionally abusive and controlling situation, whether the violence is actually physical or not. And it's tough because I think for someone who's supporting someone like this, you have to recognize your own emotions about the situation and your own frustration. Like she was telling her all this stuff and they had this huge fight and he's blowing up at her and then a day later they're back together and, you know, they're living together. So those feelings are normal to feel frustrated. And a lot of times I think people end up feeling like I can't help you.

This is too hard for me. Like I have to step away from the situation. But if you want to support her and the question is, how can she help? the best thing she can do is be there for her in a way where she can allow her to talk about this without feeling like she's going to get judgment from her friends or she's going to get criticized by her friend or she's going to certainly get to a point where her friend says, I can't take this, I'm out of here. So, you know, what happens is when you're in these situations, you have no one to talk to, right?

because I think a lot of times there's shame in staying. They're shame in saying to someone, this person has done all these horrible things to me, but I'm not ready to break up with them yet. So you don't say it. So now you end up just holding it all in. So sometimes the best thing you can do is give them the space to talk themselves into leaving. You know, like most things that we want to leave, you need a little bit of time to sort of go to therapy and talk it out or talk to a friend and realize, okay, you've been telling me

for 10 months that you're miserable at your job. Like maybe, you know, it's time to leave and it gives you that time to kind of talk yourself into it. But if she's not talking to anyone, she's not having that opportunity to like, you know, vent about the situation and verbalize what's going on. So even just letting her talk with zero advice or zero opinion might be helpful. So you think she should just, if she asks her about the situation just to try to seem like she's not judging or suggesting a course of action? Yeah. I mean, I think she could say, I support you when you're, you know, if and when you're, you decide you want to leave this or if you feel like this is, you know, I think she can give like genuine offers of like support to help her leave. And, you know, just if it's not this case, let's say, you said a lot of people write in about this. If there really is an unsafe situation, there's ways that, you know, right here, it sounds like there's no violence yet. But let's say, you know, some other listeners write in and they have a friend who is being abused or I think you can listen. first and foremost non-judgmentally, educate yourself a little bit about why people stay in

these situations, because sometimes that can help you be a little bit less judgmental about the situation and be a little bit more understanding. And for someone who teeters on sometimes they want to leave, like she did, I think it sounds like, I don't know if she broke up with him, but she was like going to, she got the feeling that she was maybe trying to break up with him. So you can certainly call her. Yeah. Right. And she said, I think she said, I think she's telling everyone because she wants to leave or wants support in leaving. So I think you can be supportive and express like when you're, you know, this sounds really hard if you ever decide you want to leave. Like I'm here to help you. You know, for real domestic violence, you know,

the goal is that you have the person kind of create a safety plan where they can decide ahead of time how they want to leave the situation. And sometimes you can involve people in that. Like you can have, help her have like a little bag packed and ready. So if you're, She wants to decide on, and at a moment's notice that she's ready to leave, you can keep it at your house and she can come and have all her stuff there and know that she's prepared to just like remove herself from the situation. So that's something you can do physically to help her. Yeah, because I mean, I think that most people, their initial reaction to this kind of thing is like just keep encouraging her to leave. Right. Right. I keep saying that. Which I think in theory seems like, okay, yeah, of course, like if there's coming to me for advice, my advice is to leave. Right. But. I think what that probably does, especially if you're in sort of an abusive relationship, is that like if you, then you feel like, like you said, you can't really tell anyone because they're going to be mad if you're not doing the thing that they're telling you to do.

Right. And then you kind of get like these weaker other exterior relationships. And then it's probably like the person that you're seeing becomes the only person you have that vulnerable, intimate relationship with. And then you're like, okay, I don't even have anyone else. why would I leave this person the only person that I'm in, you know, I feel like a close bond. Yes. Even if it, you know, comes with this other ragey side of them.

Yes, exactly. And a lot of times these situations will come and it sounds like maybe with this person, I don't know, but like that comes with these like, you know, sort of like idealistic part of that person where they're, you know, buying you flowers and doing nice things. And after the fight or after they scream and yell or or throw their. phone across the room, then the next day they wake up and they're sorry and they're so nice and you have two days of like a honeymoon period. So it's easy to kind of hold on to that if you don't have other relationship. So, you know, most people, if they know that if you want them, like you said, to do one behavior and they keep calling you and they keep telling you and you keep saying, well, you know, you got to leave, you got to leave, you got to leave and you know you're not ready, it's almost like a

substance abuse thing. You know, like if you have a friend that's always, like all you talk about is that you have to stop drinking, you have to stop drinking, you have to stop drinking and you're not ready to stop drinking. Eventually, you're just going to kind of stop hanging out with that person. Yeah. And I totally agree with you. I think the best, almost only thing you can do is just provide a place where the person feels like they can say whatever they want, not be judged. Even the person that you're telling them about, they're not really necessarily coming for you to judge them, just to know that probably just the best thing you do is just make them feel like they're loved and supportive no matter what they do. Yes.

And not making it about you and your emotions and your feelings. Yeah. It's interesting, sometimes this takes me back to like when I was a kid and my parents were divorced and they really hated each other. You know, I lived with our mom and my dad had a lot of anger towards our mom. And I remember I had a lot of issues growing up with my mom, but I definitely didn't want to tell them to my dad because my dad would just go fly into his own rage. like you see, she's like terrible, she's awful, she does this things, like, she's like, whatever. And like, that was not a response that was helpful to me. So I just didn't say anything. And instead I just kind of closed off to talking about my feelings about this person,

because I didn't want to enrage the other person who already had negative feelings about them. Right. Whereas I feel like the ideal situation for going through that kind of situation would have been if my dad would just listen and just, you know, give me a hug or be like, be supportive or know that I had like a safe place to be with them instead of projecting these feelings because then you're like, oh, I'm just making this rift between these two people worse by telling. Right, right. And now I have this angry person here and now I have this other angry person on the other side. So like I'm just going to, I don't, I'm not even going to talk to anyone about like, I'm just trying to avoid anger, just walking around like avoiding landmines.

And so I do think another tip that I would give is like try not to, you know, speak poorly of their partner. Because that's not going to, it's really like exactly what you're saying. That's not going to help. I think you could say things like, wow, that sounds really hard. You know, I'm here for you if you need anything. I'm sorry you're hurting. Things like that. But not like, I can't believe that, you know, fucking asshole and, you know, whatever.

Just like, that's not going to help because, you know, it's just going to make them feel like they're already. dodging anger. So if you're angry, now that's not what they need. They don't need another angry person in their life. Now they have to figure out how to deal with your anger instead of getting what they wanted from the situation. Right. And it's a tall order to ask someone to watch someone they love being abused in some way.

And this sounds like if he's throwing things and screaming at her and like to watch someone you love being abused and knowing, and this is the other hard part, you cannot rest them until they're ready to be rescued. And that's why you can just keep planting that seed of like, I'm here. If you ever need some place to go, you can come here any time of day or night. Like, I'm always here if you do decide that you want to leave, but I'm supportive. And I understand why you don't. You know, I understand that you're not ready. And that's okay. And I still want you to be able to talk to me about this. So I don't think you have to hide the fact that like, you know, you would be supportive if they wanted to leave. But I don't think it can be like, so did you do

it. We talked about it last time. You said you were going to do it. What did you do? Oh, you didn't do it. Yeah. Why didn't, you know, just doing that thing. They have to like answer for not doing their homework. Right. Right. And I think that's a great point just to circle back to what you were saying at the beginning to take your own emotions or feelings about it out of it and just be there. I mean, it's a hard. I'm sure it's a very difficult thing to do. Like I think back on like my parents divorced, I'm sure it's very hard when you have a lot of loaded feelings about a person anyway to just be completely neutral and loving. But if you can manage to do that, that's like, that's what really almost saves a person, is just knowing that they have someone that they can rely on.

Totally. And you can be that lifeline for them, whether you can remove them from the situation or not, you can be that lifeline where they know that there is someone that they can actually, you know, talk to about this. So it's really not, it's a tough spot to be in. But I think if you do it correctly, you're not going to save this person in one conversation. You're going to be like building the stepping stones

for them to realize that, you know, they have the support and that they, it's almost like I said again, like almost like an addiction situation where if you have a friend or a partner that's, you know, using drugs or drinking, if every time they relapse, you get mad at them and you say, what are you doing? You said you weren't going to do this anymore.

Like if you continue to do this, I'm not going to this or I'm not going to that. Then they're just going to stop telling you about it. Yeah. That's the thing. And the thing is everyone you're telling that too also already knows. The person already knows this is a bad situation. The person who's doing drugs knows they shouldn't do drugs. They already feel badly about themselves. Or they already feel badly about the situation. You telling them that kind of just makes them feel worse. about as an adult I remember I've said this to my dad I'm like I know I know everything that's going right and if you had just like I didn't need you to tell me that growing up I didn't need you to tell me what was what I didn't need you to tell me who was the way that someone was I grow up I live in a

house I know what the situation is the best thing you could have done with me for me is to just take your own emotions out of it and just be like you said supportive and one day I would I think his fear was if I don't say anything, she'll think everything's normal. She'll think that, you know, she'll turn against me, maybe. So maybe this person's telling them negative things about me. And if I don't, if I don't stand up or if I don't bring my own thing into it, then this person will be brainwashed in this other way. But most people, they really, they know what's going on. That's not, it's not a logical thing why they stay in a situation that's negative. It's, it's much bigger than that. So I think that by telling them things they already know, it just makes

them want to tell you that less. Though eventually, like you said, with the right therapist or with the right internal grasping of it, come to their own conclusions. Right. And the hard part is you're going to have that conversation, ideally at some point where they say, yeah, I'm ready to leave. We're going to, I'm breaking up. This is it.

It's it. This is it this time. I'm leaving. And then they're going to go back. On average, it takes somebody seven tries to leave an abusive relationship. Oh, wow. So you're going to have to sit there if you're going to do the supportive, friend thing and watch them say they're going to leave and then they're going to go back.

And then they're going to say they're going to leave. And then two days later, a day later, an hour later, a week later, they're going to go back. And you're going to have to keep coming back to, I know this is hard. I'm here for you no matter what. And just keep that line of communication open, even though it's going to be so frustrating because you're going to be like, yes, she's finally doing it. She's going to break up with him. And you get so excited. Like you said, your own emotions. And then when they don't do it, it feels so dejecting and disappointing. and you feel so frustrated. So that's when it's hard to stick around and just be supportive and realize like, okay,

maybe it's going to be on the eighth time or the ninth time. And eventually, if I don't leave them feeling completely isolated because I can't tolerate this, eventually, hopefully they'll do it. If you are like, I can't take this anymore, I'm out. Now they're just alone with him or her. This goes both ways, I think sometimes. That's true. Yeah.

And if you get, if they get mad at you, then you're less likely to almost believe anything that they say because you're like, they have an ulterior motive. They just hate this person. So like any advice that they're giving me is just because they are, it's painted by their thing. They hate this person. So I don't even believe their advice because I know it's, it's very one-sided. It's not like coming from a neutral place. It's coming from a very like biased place. Right.

Then they can come to that thought of like, well, you don't really. know him. You don't see this side of him. You don't, you know, see the side of him that's doing all the nice things. And, you know, I'm sure a lot of times these relationships, there is a lot of emotional intimacy. There are these moments of like, you know, professing love to each other and being like me and you against the world. And there's a lot of this feeling of deep, deep connection sometimes that does go on in between the moments of rage and jealousy and all of that. So like you said, if you're just seeing the one side, in their mind, they're going to defend the other side. Well, you don't know the parts of us that lay together and intimacy and, you know, all that stuff that happens. And so they end up

sort of defending that part of him if all you're doing is attacking him. So I do have, I have the National Domestic Violence Hotline number. If anybody out there is struggling with this, or even if you are in this situation and you want some tips, it's 1-800-799-7-233, or you can text start to 88788 if you're in a dangerous situation or you just want to find out a little bit more about what the red flags might be or whether or not and how to intervene with someone that you think might be struggling. Let's play some trigger. You ready? All right. Let's do it. All right. I'll read the first one. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I absolutely love oversharing and have a triggered scenario for you. This happened a few months ago, but it has been bothering me more lately since I was not engaged

at the time of the story, but I recently became engaged. So I've been thinking about wedding planning and my bridal party a ton. I have a friend that I was really close to when we were kids, but even since high school, I have felt that we don't really make sense as friends anymore, since we have no similar interests. And now we also live pretty far apart. Whenever I'm back in our hometown, we usually grab coffee or dinner together to catch up. Last time we grabbed coffee, maybe six months ago, she asked how my boyfriend was doing

and said, just so you know, if I'm not the maid of honor in your wedding, I will show up and ruin the whole wedding. I wonder what the tone was for that comment. I think that's very important. We haven't ever talked about wedding since neither of us were engaged, so this comment was out of nowhere and really surprised me. So I didn't really respond at all and let the conversation shift. In the typical fashion of a lady in a serious relationship,

I'd been planning my hypothetical wedding already, L.O.L. and wouldn't even consider her as a bridesmaid at all, let alone am I made of honor? So am I right to feel triggered that she said this? I feel like it puts me in a position where I need to tell her that she won't be in the bridal party and hope that there isn't any drama or fallout. I don't think she would actually ruin anything, but there was no laughter or joking tone when she said this. Okay, that's helpful to know.

I wonder how long she was thinking of that, that it came out with no laughter or tone. Right. Bizarre. If either of you think that I should address this now that I'm actually engaged, I would love to hear how you think it would be best. Regardless, I appreciate you both letting all of us, betches send in our rage emails to the podcast thing. All right. You know, I'm usually a big fan of communication, but if she really wasn't joking, then she sounds like unhinged. Yeah, that's a crazy thing to say to someone.

So that leaves me to believe that she was joking and maybe the tone. Even though she said it with no tone. Yeah, maybe somehow the tone was mixed up because there's two options. Either she was joking or she's like kind of has some severe pathology if she's really thinking about like showing up and ruining the whole wedding. So I just can't believe that she was serious about this. Maybe the tone was kind of lost in translation. And I would assume that, you know, sounds like it was probably one of these half joking things where she really probably does still feel like, oh, we've been friends since childhood. It would be so sweet if I was the

maid of honor. But like I know I'm obviously not going to be. So like, ha, ha, ha. Right. That's possible it was joking. And she's just really bad at telling her. jokes. Right. Really bad. Yeah, that the tone was lost, but I couldn't imagine that this was not. And if it wasn't joking, then like, you probably don't even want her there at all. Like, right. Don't even invite her. She really wasn't joking. Yeah. You're sure she wasn't joking. I agree with you. I wouldn't say anything. If she says something to you, you can have that real discussion about your friendships. Yes. But I would, I feel like there's no point in sending a rejection to someone who, again, maybe was joking and what didn't even like you could be having a conversation that's just completely unnecessary.

Yeah, I don't think this needs to be addressed. I think you pick your bridesmaids, you invite her to the wedding, and, you know, that's all that needs to be said. And I do have a feeling that she probably just, you know, the joke fell flat where the tone didn't come out right. And it was probably just awkward for everybody involved. But she probably was, and it might have even been, if you want to give yourself, cut yourself a little bit of slack, it might have even been almost the opposite, like an

acknowledgement of that I don't really, I don't expect at all to be your maid of honor. Like that's like almost like sarcastic, you know, that she's aware enough that you guys don't have that type of relationship anymore, perhaps. Agreed. I mean, unless this was like a repeated comment, if she made this comment like many times over the course of the amount of times you've spoken to her, then I might address it. But if she made it once, it might have just been an awkward moment. Right.

Yeah. I think it's just the tone was lost. and it was kind of like one of those awkward bad jokes that just fell wrong. Yeah. I'd give it a three. Yeah, I would agree. I think it was a bad joke. And I don't think you need to stress yourself out about it.

All right, let's move on. My dad's girlfriend and I do not get along, even in the slightest. Her words and actions towards me over the years have resulted in us spending as little time together as necessary. She has a daughter, who I am also not close with, who just had a baby, and they all call my dad grandpa. I'm 35. I've been actively dating for years and really want to start a family of my own one day. Do I have a right to feel triggered that they call my dad, grandpa, even though he technically isn't? I was hoping that title would be reserved for when his actual daughter, me, has a baby. So this seems to be, to me, this seems like more about her own, like, anxiety or issue with, like, her fears of

herself having a baby than it does with her dad being called grandpa. I mean, maybe I'm sure there's, like elements of that too, but I feel like maybe it's making her feel insecure about not having kids of her own. Right. Yeah, I, 100% I agree with that. And I think the fact that she doesn't get along with the girlfriend is just like pouring salt in the wound. You know, it's like this, and she doesn't get along with the daughter either. So it's sort of like this person is living the life that I wish that I was living in some ways. And like my dad is being, you know, and my dad is being a part of her dream life. Yeah.

So I could see why this is triggering. I would score it high-ish, not because anybody's doing anything wrong. Like, I don't think that they're, you know, if they want, if he wants to be called grandpa and they want to call him grandpa, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but I could definitely understand why it's triggering for her. I agree with that. I feel like, again, if you replaced any other like milestone event that she wanted, let's say it was like her dad walking down, her dad's girlfriend down the aisle, you'd be like, not only am I

and she, this girl wants to get married, be like, not only am I not getting married, but I have to watch my dad do the thing that he's supposed to do with me with this other person that I don't even like.

Yeah, and it sounds like because they have such a crappy relationship, she's not really happy for, she's not like, oh, yay, we're one big happy family. I mean,

that's what the title is for. It's kind of like, okay, we're all a family. And now, even though they're not married, he's a grandpa to my granddaughter, this is the girlfriend speaking,

Like my boyfriend is a grandpa to my granddaughter that feels very permanent. That feels very like serious. And like we're all one big happy family. But like she doesn't feel. And there might be that other part where she did, you know, he's feeling closeness to all of them and she's not feeling that same closeness. So I'm sure there's that part of it too. Like you feel isolated.

Yeah. Yeah. So how do you suggest she deal with that? I don't think there's much she can do. I mean, that's his. I think she can express to him if she wants to. just that, again, that vulnerability of like, I really want this and it's really hard for me to see so and so having this and you being a part of that when like I, you know, I dream of having

you be that with my one day children. And maybe he would say something that would make her feel better, like, oh, it's going to be different with your kids and like, I can't wait for that. And like, you know, the name is just a name, but like that's going to be a very special relationship. Or maybe he could say, you know, something that's going to make her feel like you're special. you're not like exactly the same as this my girlfriend's daughter who's not very nice to you or who you don't get along well with. So maybe he could reassure her in some way. But I don't think it should be, I don't want them calling you grandpa because I don't

think that's really her choice. I also don't feel like that would really make her feel better if she had to tell them not to do it. Right. I don't think you want to be that person who's like, well, I guess, well, like, what should we call, like you're going to have to, it's going to feel worse for you. Right. And also so-and-so says.

we're not allowed to call you grandpa anymore. So, you know, it's like awkward and it's going to just make everything feel much worse. So it's not about the name. It's not about the name. That's just a symptom. It's about how you feel and maybe having a conversation with your dad about it, not about like the, you know, that I need you to not be called grandpa, but that I'm feeling a little jealous and, you know, I hope you have room for me and my one day children too. And I'm sure he'll reassure you on that. Yeah, that's a good, I like that. I would give it like maybe even like a seven or an eight.

Yeah, I would agree. I could see this being triggering for all the reasons. All right. Let's do one more. I like this one. Hey, Jordan and Dr. Naomi. I have a triggered scenario for you that happened last night at an engagement party. My boyfriend and I were at a family engagement party

and there was a friend of the bride. She looked stunning and stood out from the rest of the crowd in a pink drum suit where the rest of us were less formal. However, numerous times throughout the night, my boyfriend would point her out and say to his family, doesn't she look like my cousin Leah? None of us thought she did at all, other than both having light skin and dark hair. About the fourth time of him saying this to different people at the party, I said, That's enough looking at and talking about that girl.

He looked at me like he was confused as if, why should I mind if he's interrupted and changed the course of several different conversations to comment about the appearance of a nearby beautiful woman? I like her. Yeah. After that, he did give it a rest, thankfully. How triggered should I be? I'm really not mad at him, but I thought it was unnecessary, especially to say multiple times. I really don't begrudge him noticing her because, as I said, she was very striking, and I really don't think he meant anything by doing this, but I do think it was weird.

Thank you and love you both. Best, a bewildered batch. Yeah. That's enough with the girl. That's like something I would say. I would say that, too. I think that's a very funny way of like how she called him out on it. Totally.

And I like when she wrote, but why should I mind that he interrupted and changed the course of several different conversations? Here's the thing. I would think it would be the fact that he kept comparing her to his cousin, I feel like is less like offensive because it's like his family member than. Right. Yeah. And he was like probably talking himself into like she's off limits.

She's off limits. She's off limits. It's not like he was like, doesn't that woman look exactly like Angelina Jolie? Right. Like she just looks exactly like her. Yes. Like someone other like some other like beautiful celebrity that it would be normal if he had a crush on. Yeah.

I sort of agree, but I do think he was unable to control the fact that she was like on his mind, which I think is what was bothering this listener. Like we get it. You think she looks like cousin Leah, whatever it is, say it once, fine, okay. Even maybe twice, but like repeatedly multiple times, it's sort of like he needed to express his, you know, awareness of this person.

So I could see why that would be annoying after. And I like her response. That's enough. With the beautiful. That's enough about talking about the beautiful woman too. Right. Also, she's then. also pointing out why it's particularly annoying.

Right, right, totally. Have you ever been in this situation where, like, you've noticed Mike noticing someone or talking about something a little bit more than you're liking? Yeah, definitely. But it's like fun. I think the way to do it is exactly the way she did it with like a little bit of humor. Right.

Of like, all right, like, put her on your list. Right. The Hall Pass list or something. Yeah, the Hall Pass. list exactly. Right. Yeah, I think it's good to joke about like she's clearly beautiful and she's clearly on your mind, but like, you know, change the channel. Let's, yeah, enough, enough conversation. Yeah, because I don't think there's anything wrong with like finding someone attractive. That's not the person you're with. That's normal. But I also think it's kind of like the Instagram likes or the

Instagram thing. It's like, you can think someone, you can like a picture in your brain without saying it out loud. Yes. Like you could, we don't have to make this public. Like you could think the person's hot. There's no, I'm not controlling your thoughts. You're allowed to think someone's beautiful, a person who's objectively beautiful. Right. But, you know, we don't have to share that with the world. Right. You could just think it in your brain and it could just stay there. Right. Yeah, I hear. And I think it could be even a moment of vulnerability where he can, I don't know that he would because it might set, set her off. But just to say, yeah, okay. I should. I should, should have called it. And like, she was pretty and it was like, I was thinking about it, you know,

which is not what she wants to hear, but I'm sure she might have an experience almost where, you know, it could happen on the other side where he was saying she looked like the cousin, but let's say she has a trainer, right? And she's like, oh, my trainer loves Taylor Swift. And like, we were talking about this. And then the next day, she's like, oh, you know what my trainer said about that he said that, you know, it's really good to drink a glass of water before your meal. and then three days later, you know what Joey from the gym said? It's like, okay, we get it. He has a lot of interesting opinions.

You know a lot about what he likes. Like, we don't need to, you don't need to continuously. It just is a clue that this person is like in the forefront of your mind. Right. Yeah. No, I agree. And I think it's a little awareness about that with the person that you're with is always a nice thing to have. Right.

Just, you know. Right. Well, sometimes I'll get ahead of it. If we're watching like a show and there's like a very beautiful. beautiful girl. I'll be like, oh, wow, like that girl's like, we had a thing especially, like we sort of banter about it where I'd be like, oh, wow, she's really beautiful. He'd be like, gross. Like someone who's very obviously not. Yeah. Right. That's really funny. Which I find to be like a nice disarming kind of method. Like it's obvious. Gross. Yeah. She's far from gross.

Yeah. Disgusting. Oh. Yeah. Was that good? Was that convincing? All right. Right. Great. Gotcha. Yeah. And then it kind of, again, it makes it like light because the heavier is, like the more like intense it is than the more serious it is. And it's usually not a real serious thing. Right. Unless it's like what we talked about in the initial overshare where there really is this insecurity and like it's something that you need to deal with. If it's just kind of like, okay, let's both acknowledge this beautiful woman. You saw her. I actually saw her too. And we're both going to acknowledge that she's really pretty and move on with our lives. Right. Well, I think we, we help. solve these triggered scenarios, I would give this one a, I'd give it a four. I don't think it's that bad. Yeah, I don't think it's that bad, especially if he stopped as soon as she said that's enough. Said it. Gonna wrap that. That's fair. All right. Well, we did it. Sounds good. Until next time. That's our time.

Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousman. Editing by Missileo Perez. Guest booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com. We'll leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.