Oversharing - How To Deal With A Friend Who Is More Invested Than You

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Does the chase feel better than the actual relationship? Naomi and Jordana start off with an Oversharing email from a listener who seems to “always fall for unavailable men’’. Then, for this week’s Betchicist a new mom is struggling to decide how soon is too soon to drop a new friendship. Should she feel guilty about de-friending a fellow mom? Another (soon to be) mom reached out for an Intention to help her feel more comfortable in her changing body. Naomi offers her the advice of finding your body’s meaningful purpose. They close out with a pair of triggered submissions about an old work bestie and a worried work dad. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. What's up?

What's new with you? How is your weekend? We record these fresh and early on Monday morning. So it's nice to get a little recap. I had the kids all to myself this weekend. Three kids to yourself is a lot. So I have... Yeah.

Yeah. It was, I mean, it was a roller coaster. It was good and bad. I actually really do, on the one hand, I have an appreciation for shout out to all the single moms out there that do this by themselves all the time. You're super women and I don't know how you do it. So you're amazing. But at the same time, I kind of feel like it's nice to,

do whatever I want. Like, you know, you have parenting differences. Like, I'm always, our house when we grew up was like, free for all. You want to have a friend over. Everyone gets to do whatever they want. Right. You don't even have to ask. People just showing up, staying, leaving at three in the morning, coming at three in the

morning, like, whatever goes. So I'm in that mentality. Like, the kids want to have a friend over. The answer is always yes. So it was nice to just make decisions and not. have to consult anybody about it. It turns from like a democracy into a dictatorship. So you're the rules.

Yeah. Yeah. No, that part was nice. Yeah, it was just, it was actually not too bad. Okay. I like that. Yeah, got it. Got it done.

Got it. The mornings are hard. Like up and out to school is out because there's a time crunch. But other than that, it's not too bad. It's nice to have a little alone. I mean, I guess you're not alone because you're, um, you have. have the kids, but I guess. But I'm sure after they go to bed. No, like there's there's more, yeah, after they go to bed. And while they were at school, you know, there's just, you know,

yeah, there was definitely more alone time. It was nice. And, you know, like you were saying, you can just kind of be disgusting. Be as disgusting as you want. I think it's important to have those, I order like whatever disgusting food I want to have that I know it's not going to like sit well with my stomach, but like it's just me, so I don't care. Right. It's just like sitting on the couch. And like, uh, right. Burping at my, at my, at my leisure. It's true. There is something nice about, uh, you know, just like that.

It isn't an alone weekend for me because they do have the kids. But yeah, when they go to bed, it's like, you know, I can do whatever I feel like. And every now and then, I think it's, it's, uh, it's nice to like just totally do whatever you want. I mean, I do whatever I want a lot. But I think like even without just one other person picking the food. Totally. And picking whatever. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. And that's the other thing with, you know, Jeff's really into food. So dinner is like a big deal every night. And, you know, in our family, dinner was just not even a thing really. We did. I feel like there was a time period where we had dinner maybe together. Maybe. Friday night.

Maybe that was it. Once a week. No, but, you know, he's, and I appreciate that, you know, he likes to cook and he, you know, makes a big thing. But for me, when the kid, you know, when he's away, it's just like, all right, chicken nuggets, mac and cheese. That's my go-to. And I don't hear any comments about it. Yeah. And everybody, you know, everybody's pretty happy.

All about balance. I like that. I think, yeah, I would probably be the same way. I don't have like no one in our family is a foodie. Everyone's like I'll take whatever the most basic gross version of any food is. I do love like freezer food because I'm just sort of like, all right, it's in there. I just have to heat it up. It gets nice and crispy.

High utility. That's it. Simple. High utility, not a lot of pots and pans. The cleanup is easy. Exactly. Yeah. We're not in that gourmet life.

No one ever was doing. that for although I do have I feel like you know I always talk about my my my with my friends um that uh we used to have tuna casserole we talked about this where yeah yes on the show I don't remember I don't think we've talked about it on here and now where like it's I like love tuna casserole growing up right yeah I kind of like most people probably like hot tuna is just everyone who hears me talk about that's like that's absolutely disgusting I'm like I mean I prefer to a lot of this like, like, you know, nice quote-unquote food that's like, it's good.

It's cheese. It's pasta. Yeah. But almost anyone I mentioned that too. It was like, did you grow up in like a home? We're like on the streets. I do. I do still.

I don't generally like hot tuna, but I do, I kind of like tuna cassero. I have to say. That must be just like a childhood. Comfort food. Positive association. Yeah. bring tuna casserole back um and mike doesn't really like cheese that much so it's funny because when i do cook i like to make like the things that i like which are like cheesy posse like like like

i make like a pretty good pinna al vodka like a big ziti and i love big ziti it's like my favorite food but he doesn't like yeah so i'm like i'm not going to make this like enormous you're not going to make like a one big ziti for one you have to make like a whole dish right and i'm like this is not very fun to do because i'm not going to make it all for me that's like not So I'm like when we have kids, you're just going to have to find, I'm going to make big Ziti and you're going to have to figure out something else to do. He doesn't like cheese. What a bummer. He's like, he doesn't like hate it.

Like he likes pizza, but he's not like a cheese enthusiast, you know, as I am. Yeah, I know that. All about compromise, right? Yeah. And you can expand your repertoire as well. Exactly. I'm working on it. But let's get into today's episode.

Guys, if you have an email for us, you can email us at oversharing at betches.com or if you want to leave a voicemail, we haven't gotten a voicemail in a bit. You can leave us a voicemail at 646-363-6294. I love hearing the voicemails. It's really nice to get a voice to the question. I think it always gives it a little bit more nuance.

I agree. I'm going to read the first one, our first overshare. Hey, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, huge fan of the U-Up podcast and love being able to relate to both of you with your crazy family stories. I hope this helped. You had a tuna casserole experience as well. I am a 25-year-old female in my dream career and job as a pediatric perfunctionist. I run the heart lung machine for cardiac surgery. That sounds like an important job.

I have been single for almost three years now and I can't help but to keep finding myself in situations where I've been. fall super hard crushing on a man that I can't have. Professors, bosses, married men. In my new role, I am the only female on a team of four. One of my male colleagues and I have really hit it off. I refer to him as my workwife, but no, I am crushing on him. He's married and discusses how insecure his wife is from time to time. Don't love that. We go out to bars. And dinner is a lot for work, and I find myself avoiding going because I'm afraid I'm going to drink too much and say something. I shouldn't to him around my coworkers. This is my dream job and I love what I do.

I just don't want to jinx it for myself. Dr. Naomi, do you have any explanation for this reoccurring pattern of mine? Thank you so much. Sincerely, man-crushed batch. Do you have anyone who, who, because I do feel like there is like a lot of women, like you can see it kind of, like,

there seems like there's some women where you're like, they seem to be going after married or unavailable men. Do you ever get any? one who comes to you with that issue? A lot. Yeah, it's, you know, I think it ends up being, I mean, it's funny because she says she comes from a quote unquote crazy family. I don't know what that means, but to me it means perhaps there was a little bit of a, of a chase there in terms of affection or positive affection or stability, perhaps. There was some kind of an interpersonal chase or longing for something that she couldn't have. And maybe to her, she sort of associates this

cat and mouse thing with, you know, attachment and love. And so I think a lot of people do have that where it's not really about the relationship. It's sort of more about proving to yourself, like, I am worthy if I can get this thing that feels out of reach. That's sort of like relationships become almost a reflection of yourself and your worthiness as opposed to the actual being in the relationship, sharing love, sharing intimacy, sharing, you know, your genuine self with somebody, which is what we think about with relationships. but a lot of times it's more just can I prove to myself that I'm worthy by getting this person that seems out of reach.

Almost like a self-esteem boost. Yes, it does. I think this often comes along with low self-esteem. I mean, she has this great job. You know, she seems like she's, you know, good at it or it's something that's pretty cool for, you know, a young woman to have so much responsibility. But there seems like there's something about men that it's not, there's more to it than just I want to meet my soulmate and have an intimate relationship.

It's like I want to prove something to myself by obtaining. Right. I mean, I think that's like a very compassionate way of, because I think traditionally you see these kinds of women or men, but more often women, I think, at least like that's the stereotypical vision of like the homewrecker or whatever. And like they're very much like a villainized person. And but you'd have to imagine that if you could choose. who you were attracted to, you wouldn't be attracted to people who are unavailable,

you would imagine, right? I mean. Right. Well, so here's the other part of it, right? That's the part where we're thinking about why she's feeling this way. Now, the other part that I do want to talk to her about is there's some self-restraint and awareness that can help her change her behavior. So there's one, you know, once you realize that you're having an attraction to somebody,

you know, she's not in a relationship, but he is, right? And it sounds like there's been married men in the past. Here's another married man that she's attracted to a professor where maybe it would be, you know, not acceptable at school to, you know, date someone like that. I think there's a responsibility, and I'm glad she's writing in, to recognize these patterns and you have to kind of push the other way. So I don't think she should be going out for drinks with this guy at all, ever. You know, I think you can just opt out of those things. I don't think that she should be spending time alone with him. I don't, I think if you're falling super hard crushing on a guy that's married, like you said,

in order to prevent yourself from becoming the villain and becoming the homewrecker, you have to make a conscious effort to not make eye contact, not be alone with this person, not get drunk with this person. That I think is the responsibility. Even for anyone who's in a relationship, that's where you open the door to becoming a person that you don't want to be. Like if you're out and you catch eyes with an attractive guy, right? You're married. I would assume your instinct, or mine is as a married person, is to like look the other way.

Like I'm not going to sit there and keep trying to continue eye contact with this person. And I'm going to realize, oh, wow, okay, I just maybe caught eyes with someone that I find attractive. I'm going to turn around and walk out. And I think that's like the important distinction because being married or being, you know, you know, wanting to do the right thing is not about not ever having the feelings or like the desire or the instinct like you said. Like maybe you did see someone cute.

You did look at them. And then they look back and you're like, oh, forget it. Right, right, right. I think there is this, I think there's a, it's not necessarily about like never having the feeling. But, and maybe she, I'm saying maybe she has the feeling and she can help that. And don't, I wouldn't like beat yourself up for having the feeling, especially when you're recognizing. Right. Like I recognize this isn't like healthy.

I recognize this is a pattern. I think like you said, that's a great first step. And I'm not like evil for having these thoughts. Because sometimes I think when you like make it so like illicit and wrong that you would even think it and it almost makes you want to do it more. Yes. It becomes one of these like intrusive thoughts where you're sort of like, don't think about that.

Don't think about that. And then that's all you think about it. So with this guy, the married, married doctor, like, you could say like, okay, I recognize that like I'm feeling this. I'm not like evil for thinking this. But let me like take a step back and look at the bigger picture and like who I want to be and what I want to do. and that can dictate like you said those small micro decisions that she's making of

should I be going to the bar should I be drinking a lot around this person when I know I have this sort of tempting thing that's sort of like what makes someone that's what takes you to like a level where you can change or a level where you can can be different than you are in your past I think it's all about those little small moments not like the grand decision of like I'm not going to go I'm not going to be attracted to unavailable men. You can recognize that as being a part of maybe like an instinct of yours, but then it's the actions, the little actions that are really going to lead to you actually changing.

Agree, completely. And I think, you know, the other piece is figuring out what role, you know, male relationships play in her life. And if she is, what is she really looking for? Is she looking for intimacy where she can be her total vulnerable naked self with somebody, have, see their total vulnerable? She's only seeing this person in his glory when he's like with his doctor outfit on doing his doctor thing and being like the, you know, the coolest guy in the room.

She's not seeing him when he's like, you know, on his, on the toilet, taking a dump with his phone in his hand, you know, like that's what his wife is seeing at home or whatever. If she had that version of him, she probably wouldn't even be interested. Right. So she's only seeing this little bit. And then she, you know, I just think you have to realize, like, do you want that whole thing? And if you do, then maybe you can find that in somebody who's like more of a real person. Yeah.

I wrote, um, Esther Peril has a really good book, State of Affairs all about like why people cheat from like all the different angles. like the people who were having the affairs, the people who were like engaging in the affairs. And it really like breaks down kind of like why the reason why a lot of people do those things. I thought it was really enlightening. So you could check that book out in addition to this episode. Yeah. So I think a combination for her of just looking at why she's doing this and then taking action in those small moments. So I would agree.

Don't just I would look the other way, put your blinders on, try to avoid any type of romantic thing with him and figure out what you're really looking for. And look, at 25, she might not be looking for a true, vulnerable, intimate, like, long-term, you know, emotional connection with somebody. Maybe she is just looking for a chase and, you know, a good time. And that's the other thing that I find with people that I see in my practice that are sort of just looking for the chase or constantly finding unavailable people to be interested in, you might be telling yourself you want a relationship because on Valentine's Day or on, you know, certain days you see things on social media that make you feel like the,

the amazing parts of a relationship you want, but maybe that's not what you really want. And that's okay too. You just have to be honest with yourself. And you also have to make sure you're being a good person by not going for somebody that's, you know, committed to somebody else. If you're going to be insecure and go after unavailable men, be like me and just go after single unavailable men that don't want to date you but aren't dating anyone else. That's the next best option. Yes, that is a recipe for success. They'll take nothing, you know, even when, even when given the option. Go other emotionally unavailable people.

Yeah. Good advice. But I think also like, I mean, just to focus on this one guy in specific to, first, several sounds like his wife has a reason to be insecure that since her husband is going around telling 25 year old woman that he works with that she's insecure, I would say, if I were her probably would make me insecure. Just knowing that's. Yeah.

For sure. So just that, yeah. To me, anyone who's like talking shit about their wife to you is not really someone you want to be dating. 100%. Because the best case scenario is in 10 years, he's doing that to you with the 25-year-old girl that comes in to work the perfunctionist machine, whatever it is. As they say on Shark Tank, how it begins is how it will end.

Ah, interesting. I don't know who invented it, but someone on Shark Tank said it, and I really liked it. Yeah. So do the right thing. put your blinders on don't go off for drinks with this guy alone or with people focus on your career and if you want something casual and you want to chase go find it with someone who's not married that's my advice right let's do a betcha sis you ready yeah i'll read this one hi gerana and dr naomi long time listener and fan of you up and now oversharing

i have a bit of a dilemma with a neighbor about a year ago my husband and i bought our first home towards the end of my pregnancy with our first baby. Prior to moving out, I was on an app for moms and soon-to-be moms where you can ask questions or even connect with other moms in your area. Since where we live now is a little farther from friends, I was interested in meeting some new mom friends and connected with one mom on the app. We've hung out a handful of times with our husbands and kids, and they're nice people, but neither my husband or I are that crazy about them. Now, a year into being a mom and having met a couple of other moms in the neighborhood, I've really hit it off with, plus making time for both my and my husband's old friends and family, our schedules constantly packed.

When we do have a weekend with no plans, I'd rather just relax with my husband and baby than just to hang with another family for the sake of doing something with other people. She reaches out to hang constantly, and I always had an excuse. A few months ago, I just stopped responding, but she continues to reach out and ask when we're free. I finally cave last Thursday and went for a walk with her when she reached out thinking maybe I just need to be more open-minded to the friendship. On the walk, we walked with our kids and talked about very surface level topics, but when I got

home, I was just kind of feeling me and not in a hurry to see her again. She texted me the next day, Friday, asking what our calendar looks like to try and plan something. I never responded, and then last night she texted me out of nowhere, two pictures of her boys side by side at five months asking if I can see the differences in their features. I feel super mean just ignoring this perfectly nice person, but I don't know that I want to tell her. I just don't think we have a connection. I really feel anxious and honestly triggered whenever this neighbor reaches out because I don't feel like there's a connection and I do feel that the older you get, the more responsibilities you have and kind of have to be more choosy with who you can spend your time with. I think, for example,

in college, my group of friends was much bigger and I had a lot more time to give. Now my group of friends is smaller and I can pour into those. I'm sorry, now my group of friends is smaller and I can pour into those relationships and be more intentional. How would you both handle the situation without being mean or hurtful since she doesn't seem to get the hint from my lack of responses? Thanks so much in advance, a not so neighborly betch. I like this question a lot. Because I feel like I've kind of dealt like with this where you're kind of like, and it's different. I mean, initially it kind of almost sounds like you're dating and you're not like you were like, you know, there were limited options in your town and then you found like more people that you know, you don't want to commit.

to this person as a friend. But with friendships, you can have many. But that being said, like there's no reason, it's kind of like there's no reason to dump a friend hypothetically because like it's not like you can only have a limited number. But on the other hand, it's like, do I want to be honest with this person or do I want to go for a walk with them for the next 10 years until they move out of like, out of a feeling of obligation? Or like, or because I'm kind of like, it's not terrible, but I leave.

leave and I don't feel like super great about it. And I think it's tough because you don't want to be like rude or mean or like you don't want them to leave the situation thinking that they're like dumped or feeling bad, but you also don't want to just be hanging out with someone because you feel bad constantly. I agree. I think, you know, it's interesting because there is, especially when you're in a relationship and even like, okay, so the idea of like as a couple, meeting another couple that you both get a, like, when you're single, you need to meet one person that you kind of click with. Then when you're married, you want to meet someone that you both kind of click with so that the four of you can hang out together and it's really fun and you look forward to it.

Then there's this other dynamic of like having kids that are the same age. And even sometimes we've met families where we have kids. that are the same age, but the kids don't really, like, get along. So now you're trying to, you know, you're like trying to click together these whole groups of people, which are really hard, which is really hard. I think she doesn't click. The husband sounds like she's, he's not that into this either. I think they kind of tried to hang. Did it say something like that? They, they've done it, but they don't like love them. Yeah. Right. So I do think that there's a place I don't, you know, where you just say, I only have so much space in my life and I'm not click.

with this person, especially if they're a new friend. It's one thing if it's like a friend of yours from elementary school. There's a little bit more of like, I don't want to let this whole history go. We've talked about that many times on here. When it's a new friend, I do, I'm going to give you permission to, and I think you've given this advice before where it's sort of like you can keep giving the hint. I think you kind of threw her the bone and went for the walk and now you're going have to start all over with the, you know, like, now she's like, sleeping with someone that you weren't that into. Now they're more attached. Yes, exactly. I get why you did it. You were trying to, you know, it's almost like maybe I'll just do a third date. Maybe there's something that I miss.

She keeps asking, I guess I have like an hour to kill and maybe I should just get it over with because she keeps asking, not realizing that, of course, then she's going to assume you're closer than you were before the walk. Right. I wouldn't do the walk again. I don't think you have to. This is a new friend. You're not clicking.

You have old friends to stay in touch with. You have family to stay in touch with. I think what could end up happening is you could, you know, obviously she has two choices. She could see. I even cringe to say it that she could say, hey, we're just not like a friendship match. But if you're going to see this person around the neighborhood, that seems like. Then she's going to hate her. I don't know.

That's the issue. Right. Yeah, I wouldn't even recommend that in reality. In reality, I would say just probably keep doing what you were doing before, which is like you can respond. You can turn it into like a text friendship if that's what she really wants, where you can just like say, oh yeah, they both have the same smile. You know, and you can like respond over text because that takes 30 seconds every time. And you don't have to respond right away. Right.

You could respond like three days later and just like really lay it on thick. like this is not a priority for me. And I would avoid, continue avoiding the plans until at some point she might approach you and say, hey, what's up? How come we don't hang anymore? At which point then she's like asking you a question and then you can give her. My life is very full. I'm trying to maintain friendships with my friends that we had in our old neighborhood.

We have a lot of family obligations. I just really don't have time to dedicate to, you know, this friendship or, friendships or whatever, however you want to say it. I think this is a situation where you only need to tell the truth if it is explicitly asked of you. And here's the other potential option, which I don't know if she's like how much. It sounds like she doesn't like hate her. She just doesn't like love spending one.

Sometimes people you don't like spending one on one time with are like fine in a group. So you could say maybe like the next, if you have her kid's birthday party and you're inviting everyone, you could say like, You could invite her to that because then it's like it doesn't sound like her presence is taking away from anything. And maybe she wants to feel like connected or included. So you can invite her to this large event where there's going to be a lot of other people there. And maybe she'll make a new friend. Yeah.

Here. Talk to Susie. She's really nice. Yeah. But I think like large gatherings are kind of like it's a nice way to like make someone feel included while also saying like we're not one on one friendly. but like I'm happy to have you at like a neighborhood event. I love that idea. I think that's great.

So yeah, I give you permission that you do not have to, you know, make time for this new person in your life that you're not connecting with. But I love that idea. Include her if you're having a party, you know, include her if you're getting together with like a bunch of moms

and you're all going for a walk or something like that. I would, you know, yeah, I think that's great advice. Good luck. I'll read their intentions. Love the podcast so much. Thank you for all the work you were doing. I feel like I learned something new from each episode,

and I can't wait to listen each week. I'm reaching up for help with a mantra that I'm hoping will help me during my first pregnancy. I'm about halfway through, and my husband and I are so excited to meet our new baby. I started really showing a few weeks ago, and ever since I've looked visibly pregnant, I've had moments where I feel really self-conscious of how much bigger I'm getting. I've never really had body image issues before pregnancy, and I'm still maintaining a healthy, non-restrictive diet and pregnancy-safe exercise routine.

I just can't help but look in the mirror and feel anxious about how much my body is changing and how it is out of my control. I try to remind myself that my body is growing to support our new baby and that these changes are normal and healthy, but I can't help but feel a sense of loss and fear around losing my pre-pregnancy body. When I have these thoughts, I feel ashamed that I'm not 100% excited and happy with my pregnant body. I feel like I should be grateful to have the privilege of having what has been a healthy

and uneventful pregnancy, while there are so many people who struggle with fertility issues and miscarriages, people love to comment on how much I'm growing in an excited, positive manner, and sometimes I'm excited too, but other times I feel anxious about ever feeling like my old self again. It's not just the growing weight I'm struggling with. I'm also frustrated that I can't walk as fast as I used to without getting out of breath, feeling so tired at the end of the day, et cetera. And I feel like my body is no longer my own and totally out of my control, which I guess it is. We're going on our baby moon to a beach resort in a few weeks, and I am dreading seeing a bunch of hot people lounging around bathing suits while I feel like a big old

beach ball. My husband is super supportive and appreciative about my changing body and consistently tells me I'm beautiful and sexy, which I so appreciate. I just have a hard time believing it myself. I would love to have a mantra to help me recenter my thoughts and reframe the changes my body is going through and will continue to go through postpartum to be positive and healthy for both me and my baby. Thank you so much for all your help and guidance assumed to be baby mama batch. I love this question. When I read this, I actually think it's a question that a lot of people can relate to, just the whole body image question, right? And I'll get spiritual here for a second because this is like, I think a great way to look at this is sort of, I always think that

my body is a container for my soul. Like my body is. is a conduit for me to achieve what I want to achieve on this earth. So if you are young and fit and able-bodied, maybe you use your body to show yourself that you can accomplish great things and you can run a marathon. Or maybe you use your body to go to a nursing home and you like to read and you can read to elderly people or you can use your body to, you know, work and build things or whatever.

use your hand like all these parts of your body that it's not really about how they look it's about how you can serve and how you can contribute and how you can inspire yourself and other people through the use of your body and yes i think there's a part of it that our bodies are sort of designed you know unfortunately or fortunately to attract a mate at a certain part of our life right so that's the part where it becomes sticky because that starts at, I don't know, whatever age, 13, it goes until you find your person. And so I think that becomes sort of all, yeah, and after. Yeah. It makes it difficult to kind of disentangle from this idea that our bodies are solely for aesthetic purposes to, you know, attract and keep a mate perhaps. And I think it's, you know,

this is an opportunity for you to look at like, what is the meaningful purpose here in my body? And how can I, you know, see it as something more meaningful than just being attractive? And I also think she has this fear that I hear that it will never be the same again. And I think there's like a, you know, kind of a joking cultural thing that like your body's never going to be the same after you have a baby. And yes, there are some changes. But I think if you take care of yourself and sounds like she's being really healthy and doing all the right things, I think she could have her, that there's no guarantee that she's not going to have her body back. This is just what it's doing right now. It's not going to look this way now. Well, there's another human inside. But that doesn't mean that she can't go back to feeling good about the way she feels in her body afterwards. Right. I guess it's like the lingering fear of like, and I think a lot of maybe a lot of people can like, accept that their body is going to change in pregnancy, and they're okay with that.

And it's like, oh, I'm pregnant. That's like a, you know, that's a, that's a thing that's societally accepted where it's okay to be in a larger body. But then once the baby's out, it's like, okay, now I have this pressure, maybe not even from society, but maybe from yourself of like, okay, I don't want to, I don't want to lose my entire sense of self. I don't want to lose. And part of that includes, like, the way you see yourself, you say your own sexuality

or your own physical attractiveness. I think that plays into, like, obviously, like, all the changes responsibility-wise and mentally-wise. But then you're also, like, and I don't even really get to live in the body that I had before that, which I think can feel probably compounding when you think about all the other things that change. And then you're like, and I don't even, like, look like myself. Totally.

I do think there's, like, a patience piece here, too, where sometimes if you just, it's going to take time. This is not, you know, it's going to take time for you to come back to yourself. But I do think that with enough time, if you can, you know, be patient and take care of yourself, you're going to find your way back to something that feels reasonably similar to your, you know, pre-baby self. If you are, you know, doing all the things and, you know, being, having the same healthy, habits that you had beforehand. It's going to take time. I'm not saying it's something that's going to happen immediately, but I certainly don't think it's what a lot of people put it out there. Like, that's it. You're never going to see your body again because it's gone. Yeah. I think it takes patience.

And I think it takes, you know, just, you know, getting back to the same habits that you had beforehand, which is hard when you have a new baby or your nursing or, you know, then a lot of people get pregnant again. So it's, you know, you don't even have enough time to do it in between. All very true. Do you have like something she can say when she's, or an intention that she can have when she's feeling like, I guess it sounds like she's feeling like frustrated that she can't move the way that she did or like scare. It sounds like she's feeling like scared of like never going back again. Like those days are over. Right. Which can be scary. Yeah. I think in any, I think in again, mentally and physically where you're like, oh, is that just am I, have I peaked physically? Yeah. Yes. So I wrote this and I. and I tweaked it a little because I was aware that she has this fear that it's never going to go back. I first wrote, I will honor my body's meaningful and evolving purpose. And then I realized that that was kind of like telling her that she's evolving, like could make it feel like it's evolving in one direction,

which I don't think is the case. And so I tweaked it to say, I will honor my body's meaningful, ebbing and flowing purpose. So right now it's ebbing towards, I have to grow this baby. And then after the baby comes back, then she can find her way back to feeling sexy and, you know, walking and moving and not being tired and being more energetic. And then maybe she gets pregnant again. And then it ebbs or flows back to the meaningful purpose of my body right now is to grow this baby. Just like we talk about all these emotions that come up that are uncomfortable,

It's like temporary. This is how it feels right now. It's not going to be like this forever. I'm going to let it pass through. And then I'll come back to whatever's on the other side of it. So just patiently realizing right now, and this is just the way it's going to be the purpose of her body, the meaningful purpose of her body right now is to grow this baby. And for anyone who has any body shape, if you can look at this as like, what is the meaningful purpose? of your body. So if you're a bigger person, then accept the meaningful purpose of your larger body. Maybe you're a little bit stronger. Maybe you have a little bit more cush for your partner to squish into or your child to squish into. There's beautiful, meaningful purpose that you can find in every body. We come in all shapes and sizes. And I think if you can, when you're having body image issues, if you can come back to you know, not trying to fit into this norm. It's funny, the girls found, my two daughters found this song, that Victoria's Secret, you know that song?

Victoria, I know Victoria's Secret, and it's basically like Victoria's Secret is that it was made up by a dude, so it's basically like every, you know, I would sing it, but I'm terrible. I'm sure some people out there, it's like, talks basically about how women, have to conform to, it even says in the song something like, uh, skin and bones with big boobs. So my, so the girls like heard this phrase in this song about like skin and bones with big boobs and that's like what society wants women to look like. Those are the Victoria secret models. Yeah. Right. Exactly. So even there, you know, and I, I let them listen to it because I like the idea that they're like becoming aware that this is, this is not the way everyone's supposed to

look, this is like a societal creation that we're supposed to look like this. So I think at any age and stage, you can become aware of like, what is the meaningful purpose of my body? And it is not to be visually pleasing to the masses, that there is some deeper, maybe more spiritual, perhaps meaning in terms of like, what am I going to use my hands for? What am I going to use my brain for? What am I going to use my big squishy belly for, you know, it's snugly, it's cozy. I can comfort someone with that. I can, you know, bigger picture kind of, you know, what is my body for? So, yeah, I like this question for a lot of reasons. And I, you know, the intention that I wrote for her is to, you know, I will honor my body's meaningful, ebbing and flowing purpose. And at different stages in your life, when you're a

grandma, your body's going to have a different purpose. And if we don't accept it, we're always fighting against it forever and ever. Yeah. And I think the utility part of it, like, it would be helpful for me personally. I think that makes a lot of sense. And it's just kind of like there's a season for everything. Like there's a season for like maybe you have a season where you feel and look like your hottest, but there's other things in your life that maybe you're not focusing on. This is the season for focusing on. You know what I mean? Like it's not going to be your body's hottest season. It's not going to look the best it ever looked for this for this. at least a year that you're doing.

Although I would say, and I don't mean to cut you off, but I do think, and it sounds like her husband's doing a great job, saying, like, this body is so beautiful. Like the shape of a pregnant body, I personally, like, now that I'm beyond that, I see pregnant women and I'm like, oh, my God, you are so beautiful. Like, I love that shape. I love that whole, you know, it just, to me, it really is beautiful. And I think to a lot of people it's beautiful, but it's not skin and bones and big boobs.

You know, it's, it's different than that, but different in a beautiful way. Yeah. No, that's true. I should replace thin. I should replace hottest with thinnest. It's not going to be your thinnest period of life. And if it is, you're doing something wrong. Like, that's the other thing I think to remember.

It's like, and I think that, you know, going through all this fertility stuff, you do realize, like, like, the societal, like, picture of, like, of hotness is not really healthy. like because that's because the most important thing when you're when you're trying to get pregnant or being um you know you're in that phase of life where your focus is on creating another life it's not it's usually like thinner is not better like right healthy weight range is like better and so um i think that's another it's like another it's sort of interesting realization that you have when you're kind of like oh this societal thing of just like be as thin as humanly possible is not actually like biologically good for you. Healthy.

Yeah. Right. Yes. Totally. And that's why the song is so funny because it's like this, it's an old man who lives in Ohio. That's what she says in the song. There's like an old man that lives in Ohio that told everybody,

oh, here's what you're supposed to look like. It's not even good for you, you know? That's so funny. I remember in there, there's this really funny scene and I think it's how to be single with Al. And Alison Brie is like talking to the kids about like, she's supposed to rewriting them a story and she has like this breakdown and she's talking about like the expectations of women and she's like and have hair and have no hair anywhere on your

body but on your head have like extremely long thick flowing hair but nowhere else like right totally it's it's so true even that you know the the standard it's like not natural like either you have body fat or you don't it's like you know body fat here except on your Your ton of body fat right here. But nowhere else. Right. It's just like, yes. It's like totally unreasonable expectation.

And we all kind of buy into it. So let's reject it and just accept, you know, that there's a body for every season. And usually skin and bones and big boobs is not, you know, see, even a good season, even if you're using that to attract a man, like, if that's what he needs in order to be attracted to you, then that's not sustainable long time. So yeah, if you're just looking for a fling, okay, great, go for that. But if you're looking for a lasting relationship, you don't want to attract someone with this body that is not a sustainable body for you.

And where that's, yeah, and where that's their main thing that keeps them. Totally. Like you want the thing that they're like into to be a thing that you're going to have forever and it's only going to get better and more interesting. if it's your wit or your brain or, I mean, or a personality trait of yours, like, that's not something, that's something that can get stronger. But if the biggest part of their pie for them is, is the physical appearance, it's probably not going to go well for you.

Totally. Yeah, I agree. I like this question. And I think it's, it's applicable to anyone at any stage, but I know that it's especially hard when your body feels so different than how you're used to having it feeling. but you're doing something so meaningful that hopefully you can lean into that. Let's do Trigger. I will read the first one.

Hi, Jordana and Dr. Bernstein. Oversharing has quickly become my go-to podcast. I decided to write in with a triggered scenario. I worked for a small company, 15 people, and quickly found a work bestie. We're not only connected through day-to-day office drama, but personally as well. I considered her to be a good friend. We saw each other regularly through work functions and talked on a daily basis about everything from work to kids to in-laws.

A few months ago, she left the company, but we had talked about continuing our friendship outside of work. At first, I was reaching out regularly just to check in and see how life was going, and she would respond, but then would quickly turn to asking questions about work. Like, how do I do X? What's the best practice for why? When we work together, I was happy to help in these situations, but now that she's working elsewhere, it feels wrong for me to offer help.

Her background, our work involves handling clients data and therefore non-competes are involved, so it feels inappropriate for me to be answering her questions. Lately, when she's reached out to ask a question, I brushed it off and said that I was busy and I would try to help her later, except I wouldn't because I'm uncomfortable with it. Eventually, I set up an outing for us where I was hoping to address the problem in person, but she canceled last minute, and when I attempted to reschedule, she completely ignored my text, never responded. However, a couple of weeks later, I received more questions from her.

How triggered should I be? We had become good friends, just given the frequency in which we chatted, but it's become abundantly clear that she does not feel the same and has just been using me for work. Do I address this or do I just stop responding and save my time and energy for those who do care? Thanks for the help. Love the work you guys are doing. Sincerely and only suitable for work, Batch. This is like someone on the other side of that first email.

Yeah, totally. To an extent. But this is annoying. Yeah, this is annoying. And I feel like she probably feels hurt that she thought they were friends. And now it seems like she probably wondering, was she using me for like work advice the whole time. I don't get a handle on whether or not that was a big part of their initial connection. But I could see why this is really hurtful. Yeah. I mean, to me, it's kind of like,

she's talking about how it's like inappropriate for like the work context. But to me, that's sort of like, I don't think she would mind doing that if they were still maintaining this friendship, especially because it doesn't seem like she's asking about like specific, like what is, how much is ex-client making next year? Right. It sounds like she's asking me about practicing. or like general functionality, which I don't, I don't really, I think that like she's using that as a reason to get even angrier or to maybe confront her. She's using that as an outlet to be like, and I'm going to tell her it's not appropriate. So she stops texting me about that. But when really, like the issue is that if is that you're kind of insulted that she doesn't seem like she ever

really was your friend to you. Like she was just maybe it was just a work friendship. It wasn't a real friendship. Right. Yeah, I could agree with that. I think that I was wondering about that, too. It didn't seem like such an ethical dilemma that she's like telling her best practices for this or that. Although I don't know the nuances, I guess perhaps, but I agree it's very possible that she might just be using that as an excuse to say, I'm not just going to answer these questions. And I have a very specific reason why, as opposed to the truth, which is I feel really hurt that you don't share anything with me anymore.

We're not talking about our personal lives anymore. You didn't answer me when I tried to reschedule our last thing. Right. Totally. Yeah. So I do think that I think she could have the conversation and see how it goes or make maybe one more attempt to have the conversation with her. And at that point, I don't think she signed up to be a mentor.

So I don't think she needs to continue the friendship in this way if she's not. getting what she wants out of it or feeling connected in a way that she's looking to feel connected. Right. And I mean, I could see why that would be hurtful. But there are, I don't think it's like evil or so wrong that she was kind of like, okay, when we work together, we like kind of chatted about like our lives and our families. Now we don't work together. And I don't know how this conversation was set up where they decided they were going to still be friends after she left. But it kind of seems to me like the kind of thing where you wouldn't be able to like normally turn that down. Like if she was like, oh, like when you leave, like we'll still talk all the time.

What is she going to be like, actually like I'm only going to. Yeah, I'd like it to end here. Right. I'll let you know if I have something that I need from you. Right. Totally. So that's why I think she's writing in. And that's, I do think that there, you know, she is probably making it clear that she's not

interested in that maybe for this other person, it was just a work friendship. which is hurtful. And I think that that's sad. I think you could maybe make one more effort to say, hey, I'd like to be, like, actual friends.

And I agree that maybe if they were actual friends, she wouldn't care that much about answering these couple of questions, if that was like the least of it, you know? Right. Yeah. So if you do confront her about it, I would make it more about,

like, the lack of responsiveness and just telling her you feel like hurt that she doesn't really seem to want to be hanging out anymore. And again, if she's like, I honestly, I'm very busy with work and I just don't really feel like I have a lot of time to devote to this friendship. Kind of like the first person. I don't think that would be like an evil, terrible thing to do. I think like it sucks if you were sometimes.

There's always one person a little bit more invested in literally every single relationship. It's very, it's very hard to find two people who are on the exact same level of investment in anything. And usually it's like they're not, they're far, they're, they're close enough that it doesn't really matter. or it ebbs and flows. Right. But this sounds like you're maybe a little too far away on the expectations. Totally. So what would you give this on a triggered rating?

I'd give it like a three because I think it's like, I think it's like rude. But I also just think it's kind of like, okay, this is like now I know what the friendship was. And like I guess depending on how close she thought they were, I guess it could be higher. but if they haven't really like hung out outside of work like I know they talked a lot about their families or their in-laws but like if you're at the same office as someone all day every day like I think it's weirder to not do that so maybe she read a little bit too into the friendship not that that's wrong but it's kind of like okay now I know right right yeah I might give it like I agree with everything you said I might give it a little higher just because I do think it's

very hard when you go to work every day five days of work every day five days of week and you have this person that sort of feels like they make work bearable or they make it feel real or you can kind of be yourself or have this connection and then all of a sudden it's just gone which is a big deal I think a lot of people experience that where they get have a close friend at work and that person gets a new job and it feels almost like an abandonment like it changes your whole dynamic at work when that person's gone so I could see why this is tough I don't think it's necessarily about the way she's handling it. Although, you know, she probably could be more upfront about it.

But I do think just the idea of losing this friendship at work is probably tough for her. That's fair. I guess I've never had that because I work with my two friends that. And they cannot leave you. They cannot go anywhere. Really good for my abandonment issues. So I can't relate, but you're right. If I could relate, I probably would feel more hurt by it.

then I do hypothetically. Right. Especially if it's in person work and they're going and they're seeing each other every day in person. Like that's a big sort of loss when you go in and now it's just kind of silence all day instead of, you know, connection. That could feel lonely. Okay.

Let's do one more. You want to read it? All right. Yeah, sure. Hey, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I love, love, love your show. It's my favorite podcast now. I find the advice you give for handling interpersonal

relationship so useful. I've been using skills and techniques you've taught us every day. I really freaking appreciate you both. We appreciate you too. Yeah. So getting into my triggered, I'm 30 years old and just got my first office job working as an admin coordinator at a counseling and psychological services office at a college in Massachusetts. I love it so much and I'm really great at it. Everyone at work is so kind and helpful and I caught on to things really quickly. My boss is super impressed and many of my coworkers have expressed their gratitude for me coming in to help with the madness of the office before I joined the team, scheduling and answering the phone and emails, checking students in for their appointments, et cetera. Before I started working a couple

weeks ago, the clinicians were having to delegate admin duties amongst themselves, which left a big chunk out of their schedules that they could have been seeing students and providing them with mental health services, aka doing their job. So they're happy they get to stick to their job. and I get to do mine, which is great. I love feeling helpful and like I'm making a difference in this office environment as well as being part of something bigger, which is helping these students in need of some caring faces. Anyway, my dad always gets on my back about being professional because he thinks I can't be professional when I need to be. My typical jobs before have been working events, dog walking, working at a couple of radio stations, and then I became a residential counselor at the

home for little wanderers, which was my first real job. It was a place for kids who don't have families or guardians to take care of them or family members that may be abusive, have addictions, or just don't want to care for them. We provide them with mental health care, transport to school, food, activities, chore, money, etc. Anyway, I'm a really fun and silly person. I crack jokes a lot and make everyone really laugh, but I also am super caring, introspective, loyal, hardworking, helping people, and I really love this job. He doesn't get it. He's constantly telling me to speak a certain way and dress a certain way and act a certain way, as if he's embarrassed by me. I don't think he believes in me and that hurts a lot. Whenever I've gotten a job offer before, he says it's okay until I find something

better because of how much it pays or what the job was. So I often declined jobs because I didn't feel like it was good enough. So please help with this text combo I got this morning while I was getting ready for work. How triggered should I be? I am livid. And it was an awful way to start my day, but I used a response you guys taught me. Thanks for everything. Love you. All right. So should we read the text?

Yeah, you read the text. Okay. I'll be her dad. You be her. Sounds good. Good morning, honey. I know you probably do anyway, but I just wanted to remind you

to always speak and act very professionally while at work. They are not your quote unquote friends, and they expect professional behavior from everyone. Thanks. Have a great day, sweetheart. Heart emoji. dad you don't need to remind me of that i know you're just trying to be helpful but that's kind of

offensive to me that you feel like you keep having to remind me of that i know i just wanted to work out for you honey okay i thought it's like i mean when she was like when i was reading the email i thought it was going to be like a really rude text but it did seem like he really did try to make it as like as non-offensive as possible. Like, he's definitely peppering in, like, it feels loving. And I see what she's saying, because it's like sometimes from the out, like to an outsider, you can explain your parents' behavior is really annoying. And then someone sees it and they're like, oh, it actually sounds like a really nice

normal message, like you're the problem, unless you're like are in the family and you know the history of it. But I did think that was like kind of a nice message. She's trying to do it as just like a, by the way. like clearly to me this is like stressing him out like the like and he wants to just make sure that he's doing everything she can to make sure she keeps the job maybe knowing some previous tendencies of hers right it did make me think that maybe there was something else to the story because he seems very like walking on eggshells concern like he's aware but i kind of disagree

with you in that i do feel like this was condescending like the whole whole whole tone of it. Like he wrote honey, he wrote a heart emoji, he wrote sweetheart, but at the thick of the message, it's basically reminding her just to like, don't fuck this up. Yeah, be normal. You know, like just be normal. I agree. It is kind of condescending.

I mean, again, I don't know the context. I agree with you. Like, if I got this message, I would be annoyed. Right. So I do agree with you on that. But I've been on the other side where it's like, throw in an emoji to be. make it feel like a little softer, but what he's really doing is he's acting on this urge to keep like inserting himself in her career, which I don't know if there's, it's the way she describes

it. It sounds like she's been doing, having jobs. I guess there's been a lot of turnover, perhaps. I don't know how old she is, but she's been doing, trying to do good, oh, she's 30. Okay. She's been, maybe he wants her to get on a track of more of like a consistent career or something like that. Maybe she's been bopping around from job to job a little bit. That kind of sounds like, when she lists like seven jobs. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like she's found something she likes. Maybe there is room for her to be a little introspective about, or maybe she doesn't want to keep the same job. Maybe she likes the idea of, you know, bopping around a little bit and he wants her to have more

consistency or maybe he's kind of been supporting her in between jobs or maybe there's some bit of a background here about why he's so invested in her career choices here. Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure if she's like an unreliable narrate or not, if she's leaving stuff out about stuff that's happened in the past or of any of the things that you're saying are true. But I could see, I mean, this can happen too where it's like a lot of sometimes there's a generational gap.

And or he's kind of like, okay, like, I. I see you and you're kind of acting a little ridiculous. And if I were working with you, maybe I would think that about you. Right. And so he's like trying to like get ahead. He's projecting what he's feeling of like how he might interpret. She said she's very silly and very, what was the other word she used? Makes people laugh.

I'm a fun and silly person. She makes jokes a lot. So maybe he's like, again, maybe he works in an industry where that's not really acceptable. and so he's afraid that like someone will view him, you, you in your industry, like someone might view him and his. Right. So I think it's worth a conversation about, and I agree it's condescending, but like I imagine either there's something that happened in the past with a previous job

or something else happened where he's kind of like, I want you to be taken seriously. And he does, I do feel like it is being done with her best. interest in mind, even though I agree it's condescending and she is 30 and it does sound a little like she's eight. But like in the text. Right. Right. Right. Right. But she's also like this. If she's also saying this is like my eighth job in the past five years, I can understand where he'd be like, especially if he's supporting her and I don't know if he is. She didn't mention anything about who's paying for what. But I can, I do think he's probably like, all right, like,

she better not fuck this one up because like, then it's my problem. Right. Right. Yeah, I think that I agree. I think that maybe this is a bigger conversation that you need to have with your dad in person where you say, dad, I, you keep giving me this advice. You keep telling me to change the way that I'm presenting myself in these situations. What is your concern? What is your fear for me? I'm really happy. I love this job. I feel really appreciated here. I would love to keep this job forever. I think people really like me. I don't feel concerned. What is your concern? Because I keep getting this feeling like you're not okay with what I'm doing or how I'm acting. And then maybe he'll say, yeah, like, I can't keep paying your rent or what I, you know, like, I don't know what it is. You know, I don't know why.

In which case you might not want to ask questions. You don't want the answer to. I, you know, I don't know why he's so concerned. Maybe he just wants her to be in a different field or he, you know, whatever it is. But I would hear him out and figure out why is he so. concerned about your career path. Have you come to him crying in the past? I can't get a job. I can't hold a job. I was fired. I feel sad. I feel rejected. What's the history of why he's feeling this concern? Is it something that's for you, really? Because you've expressed, you know, anxiety or,

you know, sadness around your career choices. Or is this something that's his issue where he wants you to be something other than what you are. So we don't have enough information to know that, but if you can figure out, is this a real concern that he has for you based on something that you have expressed or a negative way that you've felt in the past? Or is this just his issue that he wants you to get some corporate job and put on a pantsuit and, you know, act the way he thinks you should act? I think that that's a conversation that's worth having. Yeah, because I think that'll get to the actual like root of the fear that he has because if he's like waking up on a Monday morning and he's like 7 a.m. and he's like anxious that you were going to say something. Right. Crazy at work. Like,

clearly that's coming from something. And I don't know if it's valid or invalid. Like I don't know what happened in the past. She hasn't really mentioned anything in the past that happened with him besides that he's disapproving a lot of like the jobs that she gets. And again, maybe that could be like he style your life going a certain way and it's not going his way, but you're happy. And like, in which case, he shouldn't be saying any of these things to you. But if there's something else that involves maybe him more directly or things that he has to do or how he's playing into it, then maybe he has, his concern is a little bit more valid. Right.

And so I could see why this is triggering if it's like a kind of like a passive, aggressive tendency that he's having. And so that's why they need to have a conversation. But I think if you are happy and self-sufficient, he's got a hands off. Back off. Yeah. I agree. If you're not happy or you're happy right now, but you weren't happy six months ago

when you were at his house crying and upset and or he's supporting you, then I do think he kind of has a little bit more of a right to kind of interject in this situation. But as far as just taking that text at face value, I would give that like a, you know, a four or five on the triggered scale. I could see why it's triggering because it just comes off as so condescending. At least it was like it seemed like it had a nice intention somehow because it seemed like he was trying to make. He at least was trying to make it as he wasn't like yelling at her. Yes. It could have been way worse.

And you're like, I've gotten way worse. I know what it looks like. But yeah, it definitely could have been worse. He was trying to be nice. It does sound like he's kind of trying to walk on eggshells and say this in the kindest way possible. But he definitely seems like he's having some anxiety about her career, which we don't know what's behind that. And I think she could say like, I mean, she's like, you guys taught me this, which we did to an extent of saying she's like where she says, I know you're just. trying to be helpful. It's not kind of, that's kind of offensive to me. I think she could write why it's

offensive to her. I think that would actually be more helpful in like really facilitating a conversation. So I get that you're just trying to help. But when you say these things to me, it makes me feel like you're embarrassed by me or it makes me feel like you don't trust me to behave professionally. And that hurts my feelings. Yes. Like, yeah. Because offensive is not really like. It doesn't explain. It doesn't explain why that is or why. it's offensive. Yeah, I agree. I think this is also, I would have this conversation in person because it seems like this is a pattern. It's more than just this one text. I would talk it out and say to him, if this is the case, I'm happy, I'm self-sufficient. Why are you so worried? Yeah. And he says,

I just want it to work out for you, which to me is like, maybe he does see that you're really happy and really good. And he just wants to like help keep it that way. Yeah. All right. Well, I think. think that's it. I think we help some people. I hope. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Picoe, and Rebecca Salas McCann. Editing by Massilio Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Freedander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294.