Oversharing - How To Deal With Post-Breakup Anger

Episode Date: August 9, 2022

In an Oversharing first, Jordana and Naomi record the show in-studio together. They start off with a conversation about being half-siblings and their complicated family tree. Next, they respond to an email from a listener who can’t help but feel like she wasted two years of her life in a relationship. Will she ever get over it? They talk about the therapeutic value of writing an angry letter to an ex—but never sending it—and why it helps you to reflect on what went wrong. For the Betchcist email, a writer asks if she can control who her kid is friends with. Naomi knows this feeling all too well—she suggests a psychological technique called “motivational interviewing” where the kid highlights the negatives of the relationship and comes to a realization about it themselves. Finally, this week’s triggered submissions include being called the wrong name, a vow renewal soon after a wedding, and judgements about how you raise your kids. Check out the Hung Up podcast here: Hung Up Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Dredana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And we are recording today for the first time in person, in studio.

Dr. Naomi is at the Betches office. This is surreal. I love it. I've never been here. here. Welcome. Well, since I have been here, but since you, since you redid it. Yeah. No, you were at the old office. We moved. Oh, you moved and you did it and then you redesigned it again. Okay, so I'm too behind then. Yes. Well, yeah, this is the second office we've had. So welcome. It's great. So let's start with why you're in town. Yeah. So I'm here for my sister's wedding and my sister is not your sister,

which is interesting, which is a weird, I guess, thing to have like a sister who has a sister that's not my sister. She's definitely a sister from another mister. Exactly. But it's funny because so our parents are, we have the same mom. We have different dads. And both of our dads have daughters from, for my dad from a previous marriage, your dad from a subsequent marriage. And then, you know, so we're half siblings and you have half siblings that aren't my half siblings and I have half siblings and aren't your half siblings. Which is just like a weird thing. And it made me start to think about it because I talked about with Sammy Neelyne on the At Batches podcast where we were talking about Chloe Kardashian and they were saying that she had this baby be a surrogate with Tristan Thompson, even though he

keeps cheating on her like over and over and over again because she wants her kids to have the same dad. So just to clarify, she hates him. She doesn't want to have sex with him. So she's getting his sperm and using. I think that's a whole other thing. I think she doesn't want to like be pregnant, which is why they did the surrogate. Okay.

But I think she wants like regardless of how they. How that's okay. That's irrelevant. Okay. I think that she wanted to have two kids with the same guy. Right. Even though he now, it came out that he has another kid that he had with someone else while they were together.

Right. Okay. And he is the father. They did a paternity test. So he keeps cheating on her. And they were saying she is having another kid with him anyway because she wants to have kids who have the same dad. And at first I was like, I don't really understand why that's relevant.

Like, why do you need to have the same dad? What's the big deal? Thinking because I have, you know, I have siblings. who don't have the same dad as me. You don't have the same dad as me. We're very close. I don't really see what the issue is. And they were like, well, you also have siblings that have the same mom and dad as you in addition to having half siblings.

So it's less of like a thing for you. But I think if you were the only sibling of both of your parents, there might be, you know, some other things that came along with that. Right. Totally. We both have three full siblings. Yes. And then half siblings. Yes. So it does, you know, have three full siblings and five half siblings.

Right. I didn't even, I didn't even have all that math in my head, but that's what it is, which is crazy. But yeah, you do get a little bit of both. So yeah, I don't feel any differently. I feel, sometimes it's, I feel like the same way that I do towards you that I do towards my full siblings. You know, I think it's more, it's funny because I feel like our family is almost like a genetic experiment. Like you can see who got what from whom. Which parent, yeah. You know, the Abrahams have like a certain, like, genetic tendencies towards like meat eating. That's true. The skull legs do not. The skull legs are more like sweet nappers, like sweet eating nappers. I think the Abraham's got the napping gene.

We nap as well. I think that was a strong one. It was a double gene. And I think our mom's genes are pretty strong, like physically. I feel like we all kind of look similar. to each other. Right. Just given like you look like her.

Right. But it is, it's funny to tease apart the different genetic similarities between the moms and the dads. But as far as closeness, I really, taller. Yeah.

A little taller than ours. A little lanky, long arms. Yeah. So it really is an interesting thing to look physically. And even like personality wise a little bit, you can tell like who has the same full genes and who has like the half genes. But as far as closeness.

I don't see a difference at all. I don't think it matters in terms of who I feel closer to or less close to. True. And also I think because we grew up in the same house, you get more of that. Or you're not like constantly thinking of like, you know, almost, I think in a way that you wouldn't get. If we had the same dad, but we both lived with our moms growing up, I think it would be probably not as close of a relationship. Totally. We all lived in our mom's house.

Right. So you get all the little family. nuances of, you know, just all the, all the, and for us, I think, you know, we really bond on, like, calling out the, we bond probably like being hazed by our mom. Right. And like calling as adults, when you're a kid, you're so in it that you don't realize it's happening. And then when you're an adult, there was a certain period of time, like us, after everyone kind of started to develop that sense of humor, like that almost Seinfeld thing, where you're like, I have an experience that I know that you also had and when I say it, it's going to be really funny because you're going to know

exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, you fully get the references. Totally. So then it just started to become like joke after joke after joke. So that increases the bond too. Yeah. You can make fun of your parents together a little bit more. Definitely true. And the way that no one who didn't grow up with them would fully get it. Right. Genetically or not. So that's why the whole idea of just having genetically similar kids, I get it. I get it. There's something nice about it. You know,

I do think that there's, you know, something where you can talk about, like, who has the same eyes and who has the same this and that. But, um, yeah. Other than that,

I don't think it matters that much. Again, I think the most important thing for bonding a sibling to another sibling is like growing up in the same house every day with them. Right. I mean,

look, I was, I was in college, when I left for college, you were probably what? If I was seven. Yeah. Yeah.

So we had a good seven years. Yeah. I mean, those are formative years. No, they totally are. They totally are. And then, and then you stay, you know, then because you have that base, then you, like, it's easier to stay close. It's easier to stay in touch.

You have so much more to kind of. Yeah. Even like, even if you were, you know, went to college when I was seven, you'd still come home every summer. Come home. And they're all, all the, like, you know, whatever it is. College, like six weeks in the summer, like in the winter, like in the middle of the winter, you come home for a month or six weeks and then summer.

So, yeah, it's, uh. Yeah, but it does feel strange in some senses when I'm like, okay, you're in town, you're going to a wedding for your sister that I've met like a couple times. Right. When did you guys? I think at Briss. Oh, right. And maybe another event or something like that. Right.

Like not a ton of times, but I think like maybe it wants to be like a huge event. Yeah. To kind of bring all that together. Oh, and maybe Josh is a couple of, Brish is. for both of your sons. For Josh's son and your son. Right. And Brooks.

That's right. That was nice. I like it. You know, I kind of like it when you guys get together because it just feels like these two worlds, very separate worlds colliding. Well, I remember at Josh's our brother, who's Naomi's full brother.

And so he's from that set, we call them the favored four versus the second set of four is the forgotten four that I'm a part of. So Josh is in the favorite four, but he like, because my dad was married to our mom from. when we were very young. My dad, they have like a, you know, they know each other very well and he'd invited him

to the Briss. And so I remember Levi's Briss. It was everyone all together. And I remember leaving that Briss because it was like your dad and everyone on that side of the family and then our whole side of the family. And it kind of felt like the last scene in a movie where like there might be like a fight that's about to break out. But then we made it through without that.

And then it was like every single person from all the seasons of life. Right. That was not. That was really and beautiful at the same time because, you know, we don't do that well, like the combining of sides, which is why we never do it because it typically doesn't go well. So that was a really nice thing that that all went very. It's true. It was very short. I think that's why. Yes. Short. Keep it short and sweet in and out and having a religious officiant that you don't want to feel embarrassed around. Right. Keeps everybody in order a little bit. Yeah. But there's been a lot of dysfunction, I think, which helps. And again, I think, I think. almost having the two sides of it or parents who didn't get along helps you understand multiple perspectives in any situation. Oh, totally. I mean, I don't think this is a secret that I chose to really specialize on, you know, couples therapy and interpersonal relationships because I'm always seeing both sides of the story. Because as a child, like, when your mom is talking

about your dad, you're kind of like, no, well, I understand my dad did this. Or I understand my dad did that. and then vice versa. You're like, no, but mom really meant this. She didn't mean it like that or, you know, whatever. So you get a lot of practice. That's why there's nothing worse for you than having parents who are united front who agree on things and get along. Just get no perspective.

Yeah. No, that is a beautiful thing for people that have that. Speaking of interpersonal relationships and how we got here, I guess let's do, let's get into our first email. Should I read it? Yeah, read it. Hi, Dr. Dan and Dr.

Naomi. I love this podcast so much. Thank you both for offering your advice. It has seriously helped me so much. I wanted to write in as I have recently broken up with my boyfriend, moved out of our shared apartment, and changed states for a new job. While I did have the occasional doubt about the future

during our two-year relationship, I was the one that initiated the breakup, just because of how I was being treated. I unfortunately would have stayed with him longer, but after spending a month traveling abroad with his family, I feel like he was treating me like I was the third wheel to him and his sister, and I was a burden, so I ended it. He seemed relieved and we barely spoke as I moved,

out over the next couple of weeks. I was also initially relieved at the time to be done with the doubts. However, it's been four months since then and I have so much hate and sadness left inside me. I'm so mad that he treated me with contempt and eye rolls instead of just breaking up with me. Memories pop into my head frequently that just make me feel worse, like how he never talked about his feelings, how he complained all the time without wanting to change anything, and how he took depressive slash anxiety meds when he hadn't seen a therapist in years. After I broke up with him, my friend's jaws were on the floor as I cycled through all the memories that would have each been a deal breaker, SO to you up.

And although I sometimes get insecure on my looks, I am very confident in who I am. I say what I think and I've been to a therapist in the past for facing a long medical diagnosis process and she even complimented me on my relationship communication skills. Side note, diagnosis ended up being minor. So why didn't I trust myself on accepting the deal breakers at the time and ending it sooner? It's also hard to move on from the things that finally did make me break up with him. For example, I didn't want to go on a snowy hike without hiking shoes. but him and his sister wanted to go.

I was basically forced to cross my boundary and join as I didn't want to be left alone in a foreign country. But I've never felt more alone than during that hike. Or when his mom made a joke at the dinner table about how his ex has a New York apartment and was convenient for the family to stay at and what was my family bringing to the table? He told me it was just a joke when I went to him after. I could see how that would be a joke. Anyway, how can I let go of the hate so I can begin dating again?

Every time I think about it, my stomach hurts and my eyes swell and I would love to move on from these reactions. I'm not sure if this is helpful to note, but I haven't spoken to him since the breakup, and I don't really feel an urge to ever talk to him again. I also have had some fun experiences and reconnected with the college flame these past four months, but it did not do anything to help me move on.

Thank you both, sincerely out of a COVID relationship and almost ready to mingle. All right. She has a couple of questions here. We can probably hit one at a time. The one that I was thinking about first was that she's still, really feeling crappy about the relationship and what happened and my stomach hurts and my eyes swell and she's still really angry.

And so two things. I like when people give me the physical symptoms because that's where I get back to that like feeling your feelings piece because it's like if this is what it is, if this is what it is your stomach hurts and your eyes swell, like stay in that for a little bit. Let yourself feel that for a little bit prior to that. And I thought, you know, I'm always a big fan. And we talked about this on the episode, one of the episodes about like the letter you'll never send. Yeah.

I think she is right. Yeah. The angry email. The letter you'll never send, whatever you want. She's ripe for that. I think she needs to just like get all of her hatred out. I don't think that it doesn't sound like that she ever really. She kind of broke up with him.

I don't know that maybe what happens is sometimes when you break up, you don't have the words. you just have the, you muster up enough courage to say this isn't working out. We need to break up, but you don't get to say everything that you need to say. Right. And then you kind of need to say it, but now it's like three months later and you're not going to say. Right. Just call them and start screaming at them. By the way, the real reason we broke up is and then go on a, you know, tirade.

Where she feels like she almost never got a chance to say that. I mean, I relate a lot to this writer. I've had this like feeling of, and I wasn't even with someone that I fully dated. I remember it was like sort of a situation type thing. And I've talked about that a lot on other shows. And I remember afterwards feeling like I had this sort of thing where I'm like, look back on it. And I'm like, how did I allow myself to be treated like this all these times?

I remember talking to my therapist. And it's like, it's funny because you put that all on this person. But really, like, it's really all about it's about you. Right. It's not about like these are all the things that happen. It's like you're mad at yourself in some. It sounds also sort of what I'm reading here. is it seems like she's mad at herself for putting up with that.

And she's looking from her, from her vision now looking back, she's telling her friends about it. They're all like, he's the worst, he's an asshole. And that's all she's telling them. And so she's like,

what's wrong with me that I put up with this? I feel like, you know, she probably feels like a doormat or, or someone who lets herself be treated like this. So I think she's more mad at herself. Totally. Than she actually is mad at him.

And I'm not saying that these things aren't bad. But I think that like, it's also easier to tell yourself a story after it's already happened. Right. Do you know what I mean? Right. Like if she were still with him, this wasn't be the story she was telling.

Or, you know, if you're still, if they had worked it out. Because I think she says that I, that are like, okay, he and his sister wanted to go on the hike and she didn't want to be left alone in the country, but so she went anyway. Like, I can imagine that being told a different way in a different way where it's like, she didn't have the shoes. She still wanted to go. They were like, okay, come on. Right.

Because I mean like because I was thinking like, oh, why not just like hang back at the hotel or like do something like. I think there's just a bunch of ways that those things can be interpreted. And when we're angry after a breakup, especially when she's like looking back at that time and she's like, oh, I wasted all these years with this guy who didn't treat me right. Then she's telling these stories in a way that really makes him look like an evil person. I don't really feel like the demonizing has helped. As someone who has had a lot of anger towards someone in my past who I felt like strung me along or didn't treat. treat me right or I think about all those instances where I felt like disrespected after the fact almost more more than when I was in it because when I was in it I was so into them and I was so

excited to see them that I put up with so much other stuff. But I think the more interesting question is like what about who you were at that time made you want to stay with someone who was doing that or made you feel that way? It's more about you and how you felt in that moment than like putting it on them, you know. Totally. And I think it sounds like she didn't really tell her friends. She wasn't telling any of her friends any of this until after the fact, like you're saying. You know, she was probably sugar-coding the whole thing at the time or just not talking about it at all and then came after the breakup and there. The friends had no idea that this guy was such a quote-unquote asshole when the whole time she was, like you said, had the perspective that everything was totally fine.

So it's, it is interesting how you change your perspective. And I guess what, and again, it comes back, I think, to being able to tolerate your own discomfort. And that's why I say things like sit in your feelings and like feel your feelings and all of that. Because if you can sit in your discomfort, then you can be honest with yourself about what it is. Like she probably just either didn't want to be alone or didn't think she was going to find anyone as, you know, handsome as him or as successful as him. So she stayed in the relationship just to have to not have to deal with the feelings of loneliness or whatever it is of breaking up. So she created a perspective that fit the narrative that she was living, which is I'm with this person. Right. Yeah. So, but I do think there is

probably, I agree with you. I don't think like a hate email is necessarily. I think that would help because it gets it all out there again, even if you don't send it. And I've written that about the same person to like to the same person without sending it to them because it sort of like gets out all. and if nothing else, it helps you to stop thinking about it, I think. Right. Because you get out all that, like, venom and, like, anger and you put it on paper. And then you feel like, okay, like, even if they haven't seen it, I've gotten it out of my body. Right.

Right. It's like out totally. Like we talked about the burning or burning the, you know, it's like out into the, out into the universe. But I do think that there's something about giving yourself that opportunity to just like. And I think he probably wasn't. I agree with what you're saying. I don't think he was a demon, but I could see,

I can relate almost to the hike part where it's like, you know, it seems like it could be like a totally not a big deal. Like you decided to come so like just suck it up and like come. And I don't need to hold your hand the whole time. But I think there's something about like when someone's with someone else's family, making them like he just seems like he was ignore.

Like almost like being very passive aggressively like ignoring her, knowing that her feet were like cold and wet and like not giving a show, which to me is really not nice and unkind. And I could see why that would be something that would make her feel sort of depressed about the whole relationship. Yeah. And I think it's like the most intense version of what he was already being like before that. It was like all in like this two hour hike. Right. You know, everything. And I could see having resentment about it feeling to her like he didn't have like the balls to break up with her and he just kind of like made things so uncomfortable for her that she had no choice but to break up with him.

I could see being pissed off about that because that's like a shitty way to handle a relationship or talking about your feelings. Some of the stuff seems a little petty that she's mad about the fact that he's taking medication without going to like a therapist. Like that's not really about you. Totally. Um, do you know what I mean? Like I think you, and when you hate someone, you see everything they do through the lens of

them being the worst. So you're like that, you know, it's illegal that he's taking these like, like, drugs. It's like that doesn't, there's certain things and I think you could take them case by case about like, it was this actually like a really terrible thing that they did to me or is this, am I reaching a little bit here? And I'm trying to paint a picture of a terrible person. And sometimes part of seeing it like written out might create, you know, cause you to pause and be like, okay, that one seems like a stretch, you know, like once you like get it out and it's on paper and you read it back, you're like, all right, that one's like a little ridiculous.

Totally. I feel like we should start a segment. I would love to see if like a angry email. or letters you're not going to send where people can just like send them to us. And then you can get it off your plate and we can either. I like that. And we can read it out loud. We can read it out loud. Maybe I'll hear it. And maybe if you hear it back, you'll be like, yeah.

Oh, wait. That's me. Yeah. I'm mad at that guy. Or you might be like, oh, that really doesn't sound that bad or. Totally. The more like space you have from the situation, because I do think you eventually do get over it and you're not as mad at them and you're not as angry. agree. It's almost nice to have that email to look back at how you felt at that time.

And like, also, I think when you can think about too is what I try to do with the situation that I had is think about that time. It makes me more grateful that I knew what to look for the next time. Right. Like I, you know, I mean, every person you date, you get, you think about what are, what are the things that I liked about that relationship, what made me feel good and what made me feel bad. What I don't I want? What do I want to avoid next time? And then with that perspective, you find someone a lot closer to like someone who's much better for you. When I first read this, I was kind of like, this was the best thing. Like, I would, if I were her, I would be like, thank God you got out of this. Right. And you took the power and you were the one

that ended it instead of adding on this feeling of like rejection on top of everything else. Right. And she herself says that he doesn't talk about his feelings. So I guess, and that was something that bothered her about him. So to me, it kind of checks out that he wouldn't be able to break up with her. If he had an inability to talk about his feelings, like, why do you even want to be with someone who couldn't articulate a way to break up with you in a normal way? Right. And that's the worst. That really is the worst. And I see that happens so often where somebody just like doesn't have the balls to break up and then they just start being an asshole. Yeah. It's the worst. It's the worst. And that's, I think, this family trip, like maybe he probably, if I could guess and this is going on a limb,

he probably didn't want her there. Yeah. He probably didn't want her to go. But he probably didn't figure out. He couldn't, like, not invite her. So he invited her. And he was just, like, ganging up on her with his sister. It just sounds really bad. Like, making her feel like a third be like, like, this is a family vacation. And I invited you out of pity. And now I'm just going to treat you like crap until you break up with me.

Totally. And that does sound awful. Like, it is very cowardly, I think, on his part that he did that. And I can see why you would be upset about that. But the good news is you're not in the relationship anymore. And like obviously, again, I can understand having moments where you go back there, where you go back to that moment and you're angry. And I do, but I do think the more useful thing to channel that in is because you can't control him and you can't control what happened and it already happened. It's more like why, and I think about this with the guy that I, that I was seeing is like, why did I?

And I talked about my therapist, like, why did I stay for so long? Why did I keep going back? Like, what about it made me keep going back? Totally. even knowing that, you know, because those things weren't secrets to me at the time, now I'm more angry about them now that I'm out of it. Did you figure out what it was? What, why did you? I mean, maybe it was like a self-esteem thing, I guess, in some capacity of it.

It might have been feeling like I was putting this person on a pedestal that I felt like, you know, if I could have them, then my life would be great. Right. Which was probably wasn't going to be the case anyway. Definitely, right. Definitely not. There's an interesting difference, right? If I could have them, my life would be great. Yeah.

I don't believe it was that. I think it was more if I had them, I would feel great about myself and my abilities to, like, get a guy like that. I think that's probably the more accurate way. Yeah, I agree with you. Right. Yeah. It's more about me. Yeah.

And I think it's an interesting thing because I, you know, I talk to a lot of women that have this thing. And I think we've talked about this where it's almost like, a lot of people feel like they're not going to find the right guy because they're always looking for the chase. They're always looking for the guy who's like giving them just avoid and trap. Yes, exactly. So they're always looking for that. And I don't think it's because you think your life is going to be better with this person. I think that's like you said, a self-esteem issue.

And what does it mean about me if I can get this guy? Right. You want the validation that you could. Right. Which is like, and it comes back to, it's frustrating. and I get it, but it comes back to like, what are you looking for? Are you looking for hot? If you're really looking for hot and wealthy, I mean, what else is it about these guys, you know, that are so, so.

It's not even that, I think. It's about, it's because, it's like you said, it's because they, like, it's because they keep you at an arm's distance that makes them more attractive if that becomes, like, what you learn to, I think if you, if you don't, if you're not super secure in relationships, like, if you're secure, any very secure person I've come across and I would say this about all my friends who were always in relationships, all the girls that I knew. And I was like, how do they do it? I don't understand. It's always have a boyfriend. Right. It's because they would still date, they would date guys like the guys that I dated. But when they, after a date with them, they would be like, I'm not interested because this person didn't text me the next day.

So I'm not interested. Do you know what I mean? As opposed to I'd be like, and how do I get them? Right. I'm more interested. I'm like, how do I get them to text me so that I will feel better about myself? Whereas like, if you're super secure in who you are and like, in your ability to be in a relationship or whatever you're super confident in yourself. I do think you're turned off by the same. It's not like you're better that the people, the other people. It's just that you're turned off by the behaviors that don't feed into that story,

that you are a great person who deserves someone who texts you back and, you know, is sweet to you and says nice things to you. Like, I think it's much more about that. And you think, because you look at those girls. I'm like, they're not like better than me in that way. Right. They're just more, you know, they have a better sense of self, which is great because you can work on that.

Right. Totally. And we could do a whole episode on like how to untangle from that pattern of like wanting the guy that doesn't want you. Yeah. Well, they say, stay tuned. They say your attachment system changes if you are in a secure relationship, which I actually do feel like is true. I do think now I wouldn't be doing the same thing that I was doing for like such a big part of my 20s with those guys. Right. It's like a reparative experience. It's like you're repairing the damage that was done in your childhood. Right. Just super fun for the secure person that you're with to get to be along for the ride. Totally. All right. Well, look, she could try the letter. She could try to change the perspective, but I think she dodged a bullet. Yeah. And again, I think that, but I think that is an interesting question that she should now go back and think about. Right. You know, what about, what, why didn't she leave sooner? That's a good question. Go ask yourself about you. You find out more about yourself. And you can do the thing. Again, the whole like feeling, your feelings thing, you can do that. Go back to that moment where he was not nice to you on that trip and like find your own like figure out what was I feeling there and I took the feeling of what could have been anger and what could have caused me to approach him after the hike and say, hey, I don't like the fact

that you chose this activity over me or whatever it was. You know, pick a thing. She had an intense emotion and instead of like taking it and finding her anger and finding her power, and saying, I don't feel good in this relationship, she probably turned it inward, turned it on herself, felt like she wasn't good enough, felt like he didn't love her enough. If she was only X, Y, or Z, maybe he would have been nicer to her. So go back to that moment, figure out how you feel and just let yourself feel your feelings instead of, you know, contorting it in some way to fit the story when you're in it. So that's why that practice is good when you do it. Present day, do it today. Yeah. And it can be painful to like bring yourself back to that.

moment like I'm trying to think of like the moments that I'm that would come to mind for me and it does feel uncomfortable but it does feel like if you could only then you almost like get a redo in your mind right even though you don't physically get like the chance to say whatever you feel like you should have said to them at the time right and you could instead of sending him like the two page paragraph or whatever you did at the time that was like not the move to make or whatever the gate whatever you did in that moment instead of sending that just sit there and cry and feel and like go through your own thing and then come out of it and be like, this is how this relationship is making me feel. It's making me cry and feel like puffy red eyes and like, you know, just like this is not

how I want to feel in a relationship. And I don't have to feel this way because I wouldn't feel this way if I wasn't in this relationship with this person. Right. Let's do a nice little ethical family email. And I'm excited to have you here ready to answer this one because I don't have any kids. All right. Okay.

Betcha's this email. All right. Here we go. How do you handle situations where you don't. approve of a child that your child wants to be friends with. My husband and I have two daughters and our older daughter is nine. She's had a friend since preschool that for many, many reasons we don't feel as the type of influence we want around her. She talks back to her parents. She's controlling and manipulative. She's unkind to other children, the kind of kid that in front of adults is one way

and then different when no one is looking. However, she's not like this with our daughter, unless she isn't getting her way and the list goes on. Our daughter has observed this in small moments, but ultimately wants to see the quote unquote good and believes this child is a best friend. A few years back, we even had a direct confrontation with the other family, but they don't see any negative behaviors in their child. They don't follow through with boundaries and consequences. And overall between the child and the parents, it's not a relationship we want to foster. To complicate matters, both the adults and kids have very similar friend circles, including the younger sisters and both families. Live in the same community, tons of overlap. I've tried to avoid

situations as much as possible without being direct, but it continues to get more and more complicated. Dr. Naomi, have you run into this in your parenting life or with clients? Trying to navigate how to handle this, both with our daughter and with this other family. I'm okay sacrificing the friendship with the other family, although this type of confrontation isn't easy, but my daughter's feelings and relationship to me and my husband are much more important and delicate. Thanks very much for any and all advice on both situations. Mama bear, betch. I have been in this exact situation,

probably even more personally than professionally. But the thing that I come back to with most parenting issues, and she's probably not going to love this answer, but I'll elaborate, is like, everything is a face. And you just have to kind of be patient and wait it out. It's the summer. She's probably going to go to her next grade. She might meet a brand new friend.

and then this will all be like let it go naturally point as it is i'm not saying that she can't you know i get how she feels i felt the same exact way and you feel this need to get in and like be the puppet master and really try to control who your kids are friends with and what their you know what their outcome is going to be but i think in a lot of these situations yes you can try to steer clear of play dates i wouldn't go out of your way to make play dates i would try to minimize gently her interactions with this girl. She doesn't need to be texting her if that's something that she does or like interacting with her excessively.

I think you can limit the interactions. But aside from like general limiting of the interactions, I find like it's actually could be a good thing in terms of opening up conversations with her daughter about how this person makes her feel. You know, whatever it is that's going on, if she thinks that she's being manipulative, she says our daughter has observed this in small moments,

but ultimately wants to see the good. Right. So there's clearly something she's getting out of the friendship that she likes. Totally. And it's, you know what's, it's interesting is that sometimes with kids and with everybody. So there's a technique that in psychology we call motivational interviewing.

I don't know if you've heard of it. I don't think I have. So it's basically, it started with for treating like substance abuse patients. So if I'm talking to someone who's using, let's say you're smoking cigarettes, you want to quit. Okay. And then you come in and you say, I smoke this many cigarettes and, you know, if I say,

well, you know, it's really not good for you and here's all the statistics and here's what, you know, all the things that it can do to you that are bad, then you'll come back and be like, but I just can't. It's like so relaxing and I really need it and blah, blah, blah. But then if you, if the person comes in and says like, you know, I smoke this many cigarettes and you say, well, sounds like you're really just not ready to quit yet. And then they'll come back and say, but I know I really. need to because I was coughing when I was trying to walk up the stairs the other day. So then

then you kind of pull the reasons from them that this thing isn't working for them instead of you shoving the reasons down their throat and then they are forced to defend their negative habit. Okay. So you kind of give them permission to say, okay, it's okay. You're not ready yet. You're not ready or with this child, for example, like you're not ready to give up this friendship yet. And then the girl might say, well, you know what? She was so mean to this other girl in class and I really, she's unkind to me and she doesn't make me feel good. So almost instead of the parents, and I do this too, so I'm talking to this mama bear batch, not in a judgmental way because I've been probably today, I did this with my kids. We're like, I want them to be one way, so I tell them to be that way or I push them to

be that way. But I think ultimately the best thing is to like allow them to kind of come to that on their own through opening up a dialogue where they can feel really comfortable with both sides. Because if they start to see that you have an agenda and she probably has a fell against this. Yeah. She probably has a great time with this girl. I bet she's, you know, I think my kids are drawn sometimes towards these kids that are a little bit. Yeah, like they're a little off color. They make a joke about like butts or boobs or something and like they think it's really funny or, you know,

they're like drawn to that a little bit. So I think they want some excitement. Around the age of nine, they're starting to like look for the new, something new. Right. So I think if you push too hard, she's going to push back.

If you kind of just open up the dialogue, and this is really hard to do, but just try to almost come off as neutral. It'll allow her to talk herself into the things that she doesn't like. Because if you don't like this girl, I'm sure if your daughter, you know, is socially aware, she's going to see the same things that you're seeing. But when she's feeling pushed, then she might push back.

So my advice is be patient, wait. She might meet a new girl when school starts up in September and that's going to be her new best friend and this will all be pointless. What are the kind of questions you would ask her if you were trying to like do your method of motivational or whatever? Just like, oh, if they had a play date, what did you guys do? oh we did you know this that the other oh did you have fun you know just open ended right question I mean I guess did you have fun is not an open end of question but what was your favorite thing about

what you guys played today or you can even say what was your least favorite thing about what you guys did today right just like give these kind of open ended questions but really allowing her to come forward because if she knows that you don't like this girl and you're trying to pull her away she's not going to tell you the bad stuff because she knows that that's going to it's so funny I think about when I was a kid and our mom or dads would use that against each other. Which is like, interesting. How so? You know, you'd come home from seeing your dad or being with your mom.

And it's like if you had an issue, like if I had an issue with my mom, I definitely wasn't telling my dad. Because my dad was already talking so much shit about her that I was like, why would I tell him this? Right. I would just give him so much more. So I would. And which is sad because then you also don't have anyone to like, just got to.

But if he had been, I think of either of them, had been like neutral like so tell me about how like your dinner with your dad was or something like right oh he didn't let you order a Coke yeah oh how did that make you feel then they they would tell you a lot more you know what I mean like you would get it would be such a safer place for me as a kid to feel like I could because who you mean like who else are you going to talk about your parents with and like the other parent in a way that could be like really healthy and normal but I had there's no one for you to really discuss that with if the if the parent is so heated and intense, you're definitely not going to be telling them anything negative about the other person

because you're like, unless you're like, unless you really, you already know that they're going to react like then. You really want someone on your side. Right. Right. Totally. And then you get like almost protective. And I think that might be what's happening. Like she says she tries to see the good in her. She's probably feeling a little protective. And I think your daughter's a sweetie. I was very much like this when I was a kid. I would like be drawn towards like troubled kids and like really want to see the good them. So I think, you know, I think your daughter's probably a sweetheart. But I really think my big advice is, especially with kid things, we've had so many different little phases that I was so worked up about at the time. And it's hard to hear this. You're so worked up about at the time, but everything

changes on the dime. My advice would be not to, don't go out of your way to schedule play dates. Don't foster the relationship. But I think you can, you know, make excuses and not go and try to avoid it as much as you can. I don't think you have to take a big stand and say like you are never allowed to play with this child ever again. Open up conversation that allows your daughter to try to come to it on her own that this person in some way doesn't make her feel good. That's what I would say. That's great advice. Good parenting. I do say so myself. It's hard. You really want to control it. You really want to like control your kids and you feel so responsible for how they turn out. So there's so many feel like even you don't want someone else coming in and painting all your good work.

the scratch on my arm. So this is from Brooks. That's pretty right. Yeah. It's a nice little nail. Yeah. I told him it was time for bed. He didn't want to go up to bed. It was yesterday after we just got to New York and we had traveled all day and he was exhausted. And I probably waited too long. And so he, you know, he's fighting me. So there's this urge in me where I'm like, oh my God, he's turning into a psychopath. He's like abusive. He's getting aggressive with me. Like I get that thing in my head where I'm like, I have to stop this. And then I take the breath and I'm like, okay, just because he had this tantrum, it doesn't mean that he's turning into anything or like, I'm sure that this parent's fear is like,

she's going to start having these friends and they're going to be, you know, terrible. And one day she's going to be doing drugs and having sex. Like I'm sure her mind running away with her about like talking back to me. Right. Yeah. She's going to turn into this girl. If I let her hang out with her, that's probably the fear. We always talk about like, what's the fear?

My daughter's going to turn into this. manipulative, you know, nasty girl that's unkind. That's not what's going to happen. It doesn't sound like that's the type of girl your daughter is, but your fears can lead you down this path where just like the other day, I'm like, oh my God, I have to like control him now. I have to like, discipline. You know, I have to do some. He was just exhausted and he just needed to go to bed. I didn't need to like change the course of his life at 11 o'clock after, you know, traveling all day. So I think there's that piece too. Yeah. But I mean, then how do you. kids become like nasty and doing drugs and talking back to their like how how does that happen?

Yeah. I mean, that's a whole other conversation. But I always, I tell parents a lot. And again, what do you avoid to make you? Right. You make them feel loved and you make them feel listened to. I think those are two big ones that if you can just really do that, I don't think all the intent control is really going to.

Right. I don't think that that. Because then if they feel loved and listened to, then they come to you. Exactly. And then you can. Do your motivational interviewing. You can kind of reverse psychology them into, you know, they're going to figure it out. If there's a friend that doesn't make them feel good and they know they have another place to go,

that's the other piece. Like a lot of kids will go to these friends that even though they don't make them feel good and flash forward like we talked about to girls or guys who are with men and women that don't make them feel good. Yeah. And a lot of times it's because they, you know, they don't feel like they have any place else to go. So if your daughter knows that there's love at home, and that you guys are there for her and she's capable of making other friends and she has that self-esteem, she's going to find her way out of this.

Yeah. Like that. Less likely to find herself in a toxic situation ship as well. Right. All right. Let's play some games. You ready? That's pretty triggered.

Hi. I first met my boyfriend's family a few years ago when we traveled there for the week at Thanksgiving. They live across the country. Everything went great other than his mother who continued to call me by the name of his previous girlfriend. What the fuck? Both of our names do start with the same letter, but he hadn't been with her for more than three years.

You'd think that after the first slip up, she'd be careful enough to not continue to call me the wrong name. Nope. Rest of the week, she continued to do it, never are sorry or anything. I let it slide on that trip and just took it in stride, but then again, the next two times we visited them, she would continue to do it. I'm convinced it was some power dynamic BS. My boyfriend was adamant that it's because she's just super forgetful and she didn't even realize she was doing it. Yeah, right. I refused to outwardly show that it bothered me because I didn't want her.

her to feel like she won. After the 10th time she did, finally, my boyfriend got super pissed and pulled her aside to tell her how rude and unacceptable that was. Fast forward, we're now engaged getting married this fall and his mother hasn't called me by the wrong name in a year or so, but I can't help but have this weird anxiety that on our wedding day, she's going to slip up again. So what do you think? Am I totally justified and being triggered by her? Thanks for all that you do. Yeah, this is nuts. After the first one, I mean, that's like crazy. Or you would feel if you did it twice you'd feel terrible after the second one there's definitely like a big apology and then it doesn't happen again unless she has dementia right which it doesn't sound like that's a factor there's only like

really it would take i think it would take some kind of a brain disorder to continuously that basis to the other scenario was that it's on purpose right and like sounds like that would be like a weird power dynamic thing or like kind of like passive aggressively showing your disapproval i feel bad for her yeah This is not a good situation. But it's not, you know, she says like about that now she's afraid that she's going to do it at her wedding. I don't think it's about that. I think it's that she wants an apology or she wants an acknowledgement that this was. Right.

Might be too late for that if she hasn't done it in over a year. Right. It's like, remember when we met and you were doing that annoying thing several times? Right. Yeah, she can't go back. But I feel like currently, I don't think it's triggering because it was old and it's finished. But the wedding is just, I think, her way of saying, like, I still am. I still find this really fucking weird and nobody's acknowledging it.

That's what I think that is. Nobody's owning up to the fact that that was crazy. Although it sounds like her fiance did at the time, pulled her over and tell her how unacceptable it was. Yeah, that's true. He did that. But I don't know that he said anything to her. Like, I'm so sorry. That was nuts that my mom did that.

I don't know why. I mean, it sounds like she probably did it. The way she describes like a dozen times or something. If you have a crazy family member, it's your duty to let the, other person know that you think they're crazy. Yes. Because that's really the worst. I think that like people have crazy family members.

You can't choose who you're the family you're born into. That's like fine. You can get over that. What you can choose though is like how you position yourself around them and the way that you present them. Because to me it's like something's crazy. I'm fine as long as it's not like an elephant in the room. That's just like this person being rude or mean or like anything.

It's like if you, before you introduced me, your mom say my mom's kind of an asshole. Right. It'll make me feel better. Totally. I think that's one of the biggest reasons for people to come to couples therapy before marriage. In-laws? Let's discuss.

First, I need to figure out who I need to own and accept who's crazy in my family. And then I need to verbalize that to you so we can both own and accept who's crazy in our individual families. And then there's no elephants in the room and we're all on the same page. That's great. I like that idea a lot. That's like what happens. Clear the air.

Right. They come in. They talk about, well, your mother did this and your father did that and your sister said this. And if you can just like, you said, just get to the point where you can, because a lot of people don't see their own family members craziness because they're in this bubble. Yeah. Of like craziness. And unless, you know, you might be like, oh, that's kind of weird. My other friends' parents don't do that.

But like, until you meet your person and they start to kind of feel personally offended by your family, then you're forced to actually acknowledge it, which is probably a good thing. It's a great thing. Yeah. Unless you've done the work before that too. Right, which would be an even better. And that's when you come and you say, okay, you're meeting my mom. Here's what you're getting yourself into.

Right. Versus like you just meet the mom. She does something crazy. And then you defend her afterwards because you haven't acknowledged that your mom. Right. We're like, whoa, who's this outsider who's like talking shit about my mom as opposed to fully examining them on your own. Totally.

And that's a huge part for new couples. is like being able to own your own family's dysfunction and talk about it with your partner. That's good. I would give this one a seven. I give the actual act an eight. The actual like repeatedly calling the girlfriend wrong name. I think it's more embarrassing for the mom though and for her.

Right. Do you know what I mean? It's like people always get on brides. You get those emails about like my mother-in-law like showed me the dress and it looks white. I'm like, that's embarrassing for her, not for you. Right. Like, not everyone's like, oh, like, who's the bride? We're not sure.

It's more like. There's the old lady in white and the young lady in white. The reason not to do that is because all the guests are going to talk shit about you. Like, that's the reason to not wear white to a wedding. Totally. Totally. Yeah, I feel like maybe she let this slide too many. Speaking of like not tolerating poor behaviors, I think she's like this.

What she said. Just my name's, you know, Marissa or whatever. Like. Yeah, actually. Right. Yeah. What can you say? of that make her feel uncomfortable about it like it sounds like if everybody just kept ignoring it she was

kind of like i might just keep doing this until somebody notices like maybe she thought yeah right maybe it's a bid for her for attention for her right are you going to the next one uh sure my future mother-in-law greatly dislikes me and has made this clear over the years through her exclusion of me passive aggressive behavior and even some outright comments to other people about me nevertheless my partner and i are getting married in a few months and we have been planning our wedding since March of last year. Recently, we were with my future mother-in-law, and she announced to us that she's planning to have a vow renewal and reception one month after our wedding.

Okay. Okay. I mean, here's the thing. I don't know. I guess because she hates the mother-in-law, I think it's an issue, but I think if she didn't care, like, if they were fine, like, how does that really affect her? Right.

I would rate the first part about the mother-in-law being not nice, that's not nice. Yeah, that's upsetting. Second part, I don't think it's a big deal. It's not a day after. It's not a month before. That would have been worse. Well, it's kind of like what we were just talking about. It's like if you hate someone, then everything they do is seen through this lens of like a personal attack.

That's what I think this is. Yeah. I mean, here's again, it's kind of like, what does this take? How is this going to affect your wedding? Right. It's afterwards. The wedding's going to be done. Right.

It's like people, again, on brides, I remember people would write about that stuff all the time. Like my sister wants to get married a month. a month after a month before, it's like, people are going to attend two weddings. Right. It's like. Speaking of which, I have three sisters that are getting married within the span of like less than a year. Nine months or something?

Yeah, no. You got married in November and Talia's going to be married in October. Okay, so 11 months. Yeah. So, yeah, you guys are just banging them out. I wasn't upset that she got married same. Right. You know, within a year of me.

That's what I'm saying. Anytime I don't think I, the only. The only reason I could see caring is if there was like, if I planned my wedding and had the date and then they picked a date like a month before me that was also an annoying place to get to. Right. Where I'd be like, I already cornered the market on annoying, making people do annoying things. Like they're going to be, you're going to upset them with adding on more annoying things. Like, let them be.

Totally. But being first also, I think is like, you know. Right. I also think this matters if the mother-in-law, if her actual anniversary is one month after your wedding. and that's when she's doing her renewal, then I think that's not a big deal. If she's, like, randomly doing it a month after your wedding and her real anniversary is like six months later, then...

Right. It's so funny, all these people's issues with their mother-in-law is, like, I do feel like it seems like so much effort to care. Right. I guess it depends how... You have such a sweet. I mean, I do too, but you have a very sweet mother-in-law. Yeah.

And she just seems like easy, easy. Yeah. No, she's very easy. Maybe it's the kind of thing where you don't think about it, until you like have a mother-in-law who's super there are you know there's a lot of power dynamics there where there's this passive aggressive is the word that comes to mind there's a lot of passive aggressive stuff where like the mother-in-law and the daughter-in-law are both trying to like assert themselves through head in the family yeah through like the matriarch of whether it's that little new nuclear family

and she wants to be the matriarch of the whole family. There's a lot of people think men, I guess it's like in the family world, women are very... The alpha. Yeah, the alpha. At work and in finances and all that, sometimes not always stereotypically,

but men want to politics. But, you know, I think when it comes to home stuff, who runs this family. Who runs this family, right? Yeah. And so I think there's a lot of that. And it's not spoken about. It just comes out in these little,

passive, aggressive jabs that just like poke holes in the relationship for a long period of time. Yeah. And that probably gets exacerbated when you do have kids. So who knows? Maybe I'll have the same issue. Oh, yeah. You're not there yet. That's true.

When it came to my wedding planning, she's very hands-off. Yeah, that's true. She seems so sweet. She is very sweet. Okay. So I'd give this. Yeah. What are you?

I'd give this like a four because I just don't see. I mean, I think maybe because you hate her, it's a six. but like if all other other things being fine, I would give it a four. Right. I would give it a three. If you tell me what some of the other excluding passive aggressive, outright comments to other people,

those might be higher, but this is just the, like you said, you're just seeing this through the lens of someone who hasn't been kind to you. Right. And almost when you get all worked up over these things, it's like they've won. Yes.

Like, if you're just like, oh, another event. Right. Totally. Do you know what I mean? Okay. Okay, let's do one more.

All right. Hey, ladies, love the pot, of course. Definitely piqued my interest in meditating since I might benefit from learning to control my thoughts about this triggering phrase slash phrases I'm about to share. I have just had a baby and it drives me absolutely nuts when people say things like babies have survived a long time before whatever X new guideline is or I did this and so-and-so turned out fine, et cetera. I know half the time people are just making conversation, but it makes me feel dismissed or

like they actually aren't listening to how my partner. and I want to raise our child. Thanks for the outlet, baby steps, bitch. That's funny. I feel like me not having a kid. I've definitely say that all the time with my friends with kids when they're like stressing out about something. Totally. I've been guilty of this too because my, you know, I've been through the newborn stage and my kids are a little bit older. And like I said, like she said, they've survived. They're fine. But I could see why it's really annoying. Because when you're in it, it feels really important and it feels. Right. Well, it feels like you're minimizing the thing that's really like your number one focus at the moment. You're just

minimizing like the amount that you care. You're making someone feel like silly for caring about it. Totally. Yeah. I remember when I don't even, it must have been Maddie. I think it was Maddie. When Maddie was a baby, you know, there's a whole thing about how you're supposed to give them only, you know, breast milk or formula in a certain point. And then you can give them like cereal at a certain point. And then you can give them food. So we had a nanny who is actually Jeff's nanny also who when he was a little kid. So she, we were like complaining about how the baby wasn't sleeping long enough. So she just without my knowledge went and put like cereal like oatmeal or some kind of baby cereal in the milk when I was at work and just came I came back and she told me. And I was like livid.

I was so mad that she put the cereal in and it wasn't what the doctor said. and, you know, how did she do that? It's my child and who does she think she is? And now looking back, I'm kind of like, all right, it was like two tablespoons of the thing that she got at the supermarket that was like a baby thing and she put it in. But I went crazy. She turned out any different. Yeah.

Right. Exactly. She's perfectly fine. So I could see when you're in it, it feels like, you know, someone's rock. There's all these firsts, I think, also. There's all these things that you really want to do right in these formative years and it feels really important. So I've been there where every one of those little decisions feels like a huge deal.

And then looking back, I bet you this person, once she gets to the other side, she will end up saying like, oh, you know, so and so turned out fine. But I could see when you're in it. It's very triggering. Yeah. But I mean, I also think it's kind of helpful, right? Like it probably might be. And that's what I think they're trying to do is say like, okay, you know, that's,

she's going to be okay. Don't stress. I think new moms often feel very stressed out to other people and other people are picking up on this anxiety and you kind of want to be like, no, don't worry about everything. Like I think it is from kindness to kind of let them off the hook. Yeah, like I'm not judging you because whatever this is. Right. But if they wanted to be let off the hook, they'd let themselves off the hook. Yeah.

I guess, well, what do they want people to say then? Right. I think they want people to say. You better not get rid of the solids. watching. No, no, I don't think it's that. I think it's they want them to say, okay, I understand why you have to leave to take your baby home to put him down for a nap. Or like, I understand it's so annoying that like, you know, she's not sleeping at night instead of like just put the, put the cereal in the bottle and maybe they'll sleep longer. They just want to hear, oh, I'm so sorry. That must be so hard

that you really can't sleep. And this is just what you have to do. And this is just the way it is. And it sucks. Right. Sometimes saying that is high. I feel like, I feel like, a lot of people want that and I don't have I'm not good at that I think a lot of times with people in my personal life like just saying it must be so hard or just oh that really sucks yeah because I want I just feel like it's not helpful not I agree I feel like it's not helpful and it's like adding to the negativity but I think that's a lot of times what people don't be validated want to hear yeah well it's funny we were just talking on the way here about like you know our husbands and taking trips because you're taking a trip to new york I'm taking a trip out of new york this weekend

and like I was annoyed at Mike because he wasn't annoyed enough. And so at like a thing that happened like on the side of what we were talking about. And it's almost like you want someone to just validate your feelings of annoyingness of like being annoyed or being whatever you are or being, you know what I mean? Like that they're saying like it makes sense that you are like this. Right. Right. Right. You know what I mean?

Right. Instead what happens and I'm on the other side of this where, you know, like we came into LaGuardia and we rented a car and you have to take a shuttle to the car rental place and then another shuttle from like the general car rental place to your specific car rental company. You know, we came off the flight and Jeff was like annoyed and he kept complaining and this is so annoying and, you know, we moved to Texas. So he's like, New York is the worst in this airport and it's a dump and I'm like, oh, it's not so bad. And like, so I go and the Jews wandered to Egypt for 40 years and you're complaining about taking two shuttles.

That's grandma in you. So he didn't like that. So he wanted me to be like, oh my God, this sucks. I can't believe this airport. What's a matter? And getting, you know, governor. That's what this mom wants. Right.

She wanted to get. Like, it totally sucks that you have to deal with us. Totally. So he wanted me to join him and multiple occasions. Almost more than you want someone to find a solution because when I'm with Mike and I'm doing that. And then he's like, well, we could go over. We could, you know, we'll go to my parents. then we'll take an Uber from here to there.

And I'm like, I don't want to do any of that. Right. I just want you to tell me. I'm going to do all of that. I don't want to do any of that. I just want you to be like, this is really annoying. I'm sorry. Exactly.

That was my life today. I was like trying so hard to like see the bright side of everything that was happening. And I think he just wanted me to be like, this is really annoying. I'm sorry that we have to go through this or even just this is really annoying. Right. Period. Yeah. And not try to like talk him out because what ends up happening is,

I think, and you can tell me because you're him in this scenario. He ends up feeling like on top of being irritated and pissed and like hot and sweaty and annoyed, now he feels like, I'm this perfect little Pollyanna happy person and I've like, whatever. And he's the crazy, angry, grumpy guy. Which makes you angrier. Right. Yeah.

No, I totally can feel that way too where you're like, okay, now I'm the person who's like bringing down the mood in addition to being in the mood. Right. But I think the thing that you said about feeling that like what you said about or what we said about, you know, it's just saying this sucks. This is annoying. Let's the person feel the feeling. And then they can feel it. And then they can come out of it and be like, all right. Everyone has given me the opportunity to like feel shitty. And I've gotten a minute and a half to complain. And now it's out of my system. And I can be like more solutions focused. Right. So as we're talking about this, I realize for me personally, I need to follow my own advice. it comes to like sit and I've been trying this over the course of the last couple of days like sitting with my own feelings of people around me being uncomfortable and not trying to like jump in and fix it and just allowing myself to say like okay he's not happy that's okay I understand why he's not happy this is an annoying situation sit with it not try to fix it not try to change it and just realize like it's going to pass and this is going to get better I don't and same

thing with the mom, with the daughter, with the manipulative friend. Like, I need to work on that still myself. Like, this is going to pass. This is okay. I don't need to jump in here and control the whole situation by like pointing out the, you know, beauty of the, you know, the shininess of the excavator and the, you know, the jackhammer and how, you know, the vibrations feel pleasant. No. It's hard because you're kind of like this person's like angry at me and I didn't really like do anything. So I want to like fix that now. Yes. But like the best way to fix it is to just let them be angry. Just let them be angry, validate, be patient. And most people will find their way out of it. No one wants to be angry, but they want to not be angry because it's their idea. Not because it's like

coming into the office. Right. I betches, you know, we, we do a hybrid model where no one has to come in. People want to come in when it's their idea. Right. When it's not. Totally. You're not being forced. Yep. People want to not be angry when when they've given themselves permission. to not be angry, not because someone told them to not be angry. It's so funny. Just one last thing. I remember being a kid where I was like in a mood about, like, something happened and I didn't like it, whatever it was. Maybe I like lost it bowling or I wanted candy and I didn't get one and I was like pouting.

And I remember that feeling and I don't really get this anymore of like, I want to not be in a bad mood anymore, but I don't want anyone to make a comment about it. Right. That's very true. I have a specific memory of similar situation with like these orange icees in Aruba. I don't know if you remember I had meltdown about them. I still remember it to this day. And what happened? Where it was like, I don't like sharing because I have a lot of siblings and I have to share everything. Right. And we were on the beach in Aruba and they had these like orange icees that I, that my dad got for me. And then Jonathan, our brother, he was like, I, he's like, can I have some. I'm like, I have a little lick. And then he took like, I was probably like seven or eight at the time. He took like this huge bite of him. Oh, that's really sad. And I like freaked out and I like

threw it on the floor. The whole thing. And I just remember this was like my big, for some reason, this just stands out to me. And I just remember everyone around me like laughing at me. Oh, I was probably laughing. I'm sorry. You know what I mean? Where someone's acting so like brady that you like are, you know, now you're like, okay, now I really have to freak out because like now I. Now I'm even angrier because now everyone's laughing. I think I have a picture. You used to take pictures of me when I was crying. It was really mean.

I wish we could show it right now. But yeah, I see. Maybe I'll find it. We'll post it somewhere. But yeah, kind of like, do what I mean? You're kind of like, I don't want to be, I don't want to be this person. It's too late for me.

It's too late. I'm in it. But I remember the feeling of like, I want to get out of this, but I don't want a whole big thing of everyone being like, oh, you're in a better mood now. Yeah. Because imagine if after that everyone was just like acting normally. or not. Yeah.

You wouldn't not be able to comment on it too. No one wants to feel like the crazy person. So I'm going to, this was actually a little therapy session for me. I felt like it's a reminder that I need to be patient. I need to relax into my feelings, relax into other people's feelings and like let everybody have their feelings and not get, feel like I need to control it. So thank you. Good reminder to all of us as we go through annoying summer heat waves.

Yeah. Patience. It is hot. Validate the heat. Anyway, that's it for today. All right, that's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales-Picot, and Rebecca Sous-McChan.

Editing by Massilo Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.