Oversharing - How To Deliver a Genuine Apology

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

What makes for a good apology? Jordana shares a story about offering an insincere apology, leading to some practical tips from Dr. Naomi for how to craft an apology that counts. An emailer writes in to ask if she should confront a coworker after feeling humiliated by his thoughtless gift-exchange present. Hot off the heels of the Vanderpump Rules three-part reunion, they answer a Betchicist question about the level of vitriol directed at the perpetrators of the Scandoval affair. Why do we react so passionately after someone cheats? And to what degree can you speak up on behalf of a friend who was cheated on? A listener asks for help with setting intentions to deal with a neighbor who is constantly playing music. Finally, they rate a pair of Triggered submissions involving an annoying texter, and a group chat gone-rogue. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. So nice to be back. I mean, in terms of what's going on with me, I have some live shows coming up.

So I'm excited about that. If you guys want tickets to come see Jared and I do a U-Up live show, this Thursday, Friday, and Saturday will be in Boston, New York and Washington, D.C., respectfully. So you can get those tickets if you haven't gotten them yet and you want to see a different show, a different kind of show than this show. I mean, I've only been to a few because you haven't done Dallas yet, which you should add to the rotation. Yes. I'm requesting. But we were there in 2019, but you didn't live there. So that defeats the purpose. But yeah, for me personally. Yes. But I love the live shows. They're so fun. It's just like it's just a different dynamic. It's like all happening right there and just the energy. Laughing is so contagious. It's just like, you know, I'm a big fan of comedy clubs because it's just like, you know, there's never a time where you're going to laugh for like an hour straight. Same. Laughing just makes everything feel like it's not.

not going to be that bad and that, you know, things are bright and looking up. And so I totally agree. I love a comedy show. The only thing annoying about comedy shows, if they're not good, then they're, like, not good. You can't really have, like, a, like, medium show. Like, it has to be, like, funny or not funny almost. Right. Well, if they're not good, then I just end up, like, feeling so bad for the person and, like, kind of trying to give them a chuckle or it just is so awkward. But when there's something, they, you know, they, they did, they do studies. There's something about, like, when other people are laughing. Like, we always talk about, like, social, kind of like fitting in stuff. And, you know, even with the gossip, there's something about when people are laughing, it makes you

want to laugh. And so it just brings out, I think, the side of people that you can't access in the same way when you're just sitting and listening to a podcast, on your walk by yourself. That's just like a such much more relaxed communal part of. who they are. I was thinking totally off topic of this because of you up, like I read a lot of podcasts or people who are like, feel like wronged by someone they're dating or I mean, on this show, we get a lot of stuff like that too where people, you know, feel offended or if you're wrong. But I was thinking about like what makes a good apology, what makes a real authentic apology? Because we all know people who have apologized to us or when we've apologized and we haven't

really mean it and it comes off very inauthentic. And I think that's, you should probably see that a lot with kids. But it's so funny because I remember, I was thinking of a story with your daughter, Lila, when she was like three or four years old just to show how like emotionally intelligent she was. It's like, we were in Florida and I was fighting with our younger sister. And she was there. And we were fighting and we were like not speaking to each other.

And we were about to go to dinner. And our sister was like, I'm not coming to dinner. And Lila was like not having that. She's like, you have to come to dinner. And she's like, well, Jojo's being mean to me. That's my aunt Jojo. That's my aunt. And she was like, Jojo, say you're sorry.

So I said like, I'm sorry. And even she at like, she must have been like three or like three maybe even younger years old. She was like, no, like you didn't mean it. Like say it like, say it for real. Like say it like you really mean it. Which I thought was very like astute for someone that age. Usually that's kind of like enough is just the words. But you're not really understanding emotionally intelligent enough to know that like that's not, that wasn't a real apology.

Right. So, I mean, do you ever guide anyone through apologies or like maybe receiving apologies and feeling like they're good or not good enough? Like what do you feel like goes into a really good apology? It's such an interesting question. The hard part is you have to really feel sorry, right? I think for it to come out genuine, otherwise you're acting. And if someone is very emotionally in tune, they're probably going to feel it or they might not if you're a good actor or actress, but I think it's not necessarily about how to craft

the apology, but more about how to get in touch with what you're really apologizing for. And if you really are feeling that way. So yes, I think I could tell you, validate. the person, you know, kind of telling them how you think that you made them feel, right? So like saying, you know, I'm sorry that I ghosted you. Right. You have to say the specific action. Right.

I'm sorry that I ghosted you. I could imagine that you must have been feeling really confused and just kind of like going through their what you understand of what was difficult for them. and then kind of making an offer to repair in some way. Like going forward, this is how I will handle something differently. Yeah. And even if you want to be really good at it,

I think you could be very specific about like what you will do differently going forward. You know, like next time if I feel like I'm not interested in this relationship anymore, I will, you know, we can meet up and have a conversation and I'll tell what I'm just picking ghosting obviously, but, you know, I think validating, explaining how you understand how it made the person feel

and then like offering a suggestion of like how you can do it differently is great. But underlyingly, I think you really have like, you know, I deal with people all the time that are in difficult relationships and with people that are maybe resentful or, you know, just underlyingly don't, they can apologize for the thing that they did. when they were feeling resentful, but if they're still feeling resentful and they're not really feeling that like genuinely badly for the thing,

the apology is like, you know, I think the work is maybe more done in the other person accepting that this person is not sorry. Yes. Right. Which is hard. And that, you know,

if it's really coming off is not genuine, you know. Like you said, if it's just kind of like, yeah, sorry. right or i'm sorry i'm the worst of all things i'm sorry you feel that way yes is the worst non-apology apology that you can totally yeah so if you're getting that uh it's hard i think there that you know that's a good way to apologize if you really do mean it but yeah people just sometimes well it's so hard to apologize too i think sometimes where it's like you know because i think our brain is instantly wired, at least mine is, to, like, defend myself, right, against a perceived slight

or wrong. So when someone says I do something wrong, my immediate thought is, like, I'm not a person who, like, does bad things to people or, like, makes them feel bad. So, like, my brain immediately, like, rationalizes why I do it or what happened. Right. I'm sure not the only one where you get defensive. Right. And you're like, well, this, this and this and this. And when, you know, you said that, And so that's why I said this, which is probably not helpful to a solution. But it does feel like compared to other interactions, like apologizing generally feels hard because it's very big, it much a test for like your ego. Yes. How much your ego can withstand like being incorrect.

And you know, everyone knows some people who just like literally will never apologize. Just are incapable of apologizing genuinely or otherwise. Yes. totally. I agree 100%. I think that when you say your brain is wired to be defensive, I think there's like in any given interaction, there's like 50 different ways to look at it. And your brain is going to pick the one that makes you feel best about yourself. That's your automatic thing that your brain is going to do. It's going to pick the one that makes you feel like I'm still a good person. But I do think it is important. Like I don't think

an apology is good when you're sort of like, let's say someone says, Jordana, you're so defensive. Like, I can't even talk to you, right? You're so defensive. So then when something happens and you do have a thing about a reason why you did the thing that you're needing to apologize for, sometimes it feels like I can't even say my side because then I'm coming off as defensive. So I think it is important that an apology, it really isn't a one way. Right. It's a conversation. It's a conversation where you do get to at some point say, well, part of why I, and, you know, it can't just be this and there has to be ownership, but part of why I ghosted you is because I, the last time that I said, you know, that I,

I canceled the date or the last time that I said, you know, like I, whatever, I thought we should slow things down, this and this and this. Like, you reacted in this way and that created a reaction in me and whatever it is. Like, I do think that needs to happen in the conversation. Right. It's not an excuse and it's not, you know, but I think if everyone can just stay calm and kind of flush the whole thing out, that's the deal. And I think that's almost like, that's what makes like a real friendship or a real relationship sustain, I think is when it's not just like one person that's always wrong and the other person is just always apologizing that it is a conversation of what are the dynamics that create the situation in which one person feels slighted. Yes. Which you never see.

I mean, I watch so many. this just happens to be a week of the last of so many Real Housewives reunions. And I love the reunions. I love reunion episodes and like Vanderpump Rules and all that stuff. I love the reunion episodes. They're my favorite episodes because it's really just like constant dialogue about like all of the wrongs throughout the season. And you get to see people confront people for things that they said about someone behind their back on camera to a confessional. Yes. Yes.

And it's like really you can't really hide from like the raw evidence. Mm-hmm. That's like the footage being played when someone's like, I didn't say that, and then you have roll the tape and then you have it there. So those are like my favorite episodes. I was thinking about like, why do I like them? And I think it's because it's sort of brought you ahead. But usually like the kind of what we're talking about here with like a healthy dynamic of when you do this thing, it makes me act like this. Like that usually doesn't happen because it's just not great for ongoing drama of TV. Right. But it's it's funny. And it's like exactly what you said.

There's so much everyone's so concerned with their public image that the egos are probably so powerful in that room that it's really hard to break down to, you know, whatever is really underlying the whole thing. I'm jealous of you. Like we always say that, like normalize jealousy, right? Whatever it is. Like saying something like that, like I think you're prettier than me and I'm really jealous of your marriage.

Like no one's going to say that. No one says that. Right. No one ever says that. You know, if that's what it is, then like no one's going to do that. But that would kind of like stop everyone in their tracks. I was a bitch to you because I'm jealous that I think you're more beautiful than I am. And, you know, I want your life.

Yeah. And I think that when you do that, that sort of disarms people, which again, I think makes for bad TV. But good for like a real genuine friendship. Right. So I would say reunions not a great way to resolve the reunion tactic. of making yourself look as publicly on top and wronged continuously as you can is not good for like a real genuine relationship totally everyone's I mean they they always you know it's always I'm always so interested they always like look so at the reunion shows it's almost like yes like you're

meeting your ex and like you know you have to look your best self it's like the ego like I could almost like feel the ego energy in the room of everybody that's like all glammed up, like trying to just put their best self forward. And they're bringing like the printouts of the texts that someone sent them off screen and like, you know, all their like evidence. It feels like a trial. Yes. It doesn't feel like it should feel like therapy and like a real, if you're talking about like a real almost like the stated intention of these is to sort of resolve issues that came up throughout the season. But it's really much more like a court trial where there's like a winner or a loser and it's not really a bad.

repairing a relationship, it's about kind of looking the best physically and, you know, in the fights. Right, which is the opposite of what you need for genuine apologies and repairs. You need vulnerability. You need people to like, you know, kind of sit back and really understand why they were doing these terrible things to each other, which is not going to happen. I would love to sit down and do like a group with all these people, like in private, no cameras, just like, what's really going on here? What are you guys all afraid of? Well, I don't think that's going to happen because there's no money in that for them.

Yes. Yes. But it's a lovely thought. I love that, you know, utopia of reality TV, uh, world where that could potentially happen, a fantasy world. But let's get into the show. I think that was really interesting. And I think something I'm going to try to remember the next time. I've done someone wrong. Okay. Let's get into our first overshare email. If you want to leave us a voicemail, you can leave us a voicemail. You can leave us a voicemail. at 646363-663-6294 or if you want to email us you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. Get great, great emails. I'll read the first overshare. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I'm a 36-year-old female and feel bullied for the first time in my life by my 21-year-old male

coworker and most of the very young group I work with. My scenario is different than most. I sing in production shows on cruise ships. So I work and live with the same group of 11 other cast members for, six months at a time. That is a very interesting scenario. Intense. Yeah. I've been doing this for nearly eight years minus COVID year. And while I'm normally independent and like my alone time, I've never actually felt unwelcome in a cast before. I don't know whether to address it. And if so, how? The specific event that made me feel

humiliated and embarrassed was on Easter. I had never been super close with my cast of 12, but we got along. Had game nights together, et cetera. We did a secret bunny gift exchange, like Secret Santa, pick names out of a hat and got one person a gift with a $20 limit, though nearly everyone including myself went over the limit and or put in a lot of effort. We went on a hunt around the theater for our gifts. Mine wasn't hidden and then sat in a circle and opened our gifts one at a time. Mine was a single chocolate bar given to me by a 21 year old guy. No one said anything and it was very awkward. It was not about chocolate. I could buy my own chocolate. I just felt so small and obviously unlike sitting there with my one chocolate bar while others had.

had baskets full of candies and presents. I felt humiliated. I'm normally not one to cry except in movies, but when I got back to my luckily solo cabin, I burst into tears and couldn't stop crying for a couple hours. This made me feel exactly like the Grinch who just wants to live on my own mountains shut off to the world. And since I live and work here, there's no escape from seeing him slash them except if I'm in my room. That's basically what I've done in the nearly two months since, stayed in my room. I completely avoid him specifically, but really avoid the whole cast as I feel they are all complicit. Many of them said to me privately how shitty that was and one girl actually got me an Easter gift because she felt bad for me.

But they're all solidly still his friend while they all don't even know how to deal with me, as now I'm completely closed off. I have five more weeks here and it still nags me. Plus, I have to see this boy again for a month while we rehearsed in the same building for our next ships. Luckily not the same ship. Do I tell him he humiliated me before we leave in an attempt for this to loosen its hold on me? I can't help but feel like he needs to know how bad he hurt me, but it feels like I'm trying to teach him a lesson or hurt him the way he hurt me. Do I just try to let it go and ignore him every time I see him?

There have been many other reasons I felt isolated by this cast, but this is the event that sticks in my mind. Any advice is so appreciated. I can't really do therapy on board with terrible Wi-Fi, so you're all I've got. I've spent all my time since then crocheting while listening to the entire backlog of you up and oversharing, and you're really getting me through this isolated hard time. Thank you so much, a bullied betch. This was very interesting and clear that there's so much more to it than...

I agree. The chocolate bar. Yeah, because I think when I read this scenario, my first reaction was, this seems to be an overreaction on her part to the perceived offense, which is, I think of all 21-year-old guys is just like lazy and like not caring about anything. and he was probably like, couldn't not do this. I think it had absolutely... Get a basket and fill it up with stuff and like, you know. Yeah, like no one is worse at that than a 21-year-old guy, I think. Maybe like an 18-year-old guy.

Right. Slightly worse. Slightly worse, yeah. But to me, like when I first read it, I was like, oh, this clearly had nothing to do with her. This was clearly just like about this guy, just like not giving a shit about the assignment. Right. I had the same exact feeling. He was just lazy.

It was actually embarrassing for him. the interesting part is that she felt embarrassed by it. She, you know, like to me, it's more embarrassing to him. I think a lot of people probably would have like made a joke out of it or like just been like,

you know, Brian, come on. You know, what? Great job. Yeah, great job.

Really killed us. So made a joke. I think this comes to her just, she said in all of her other years, she's felt. really good and like gotten along really well with her castmates and this particular season she's not and so I think it just is you know all coming into this one secret bunny gift exchange do I think she should bring it up to him now several weeks later it's like going to be July 4th and

this was Easter no like I don't think that she should bring it up to him I think that ship has sailed no pun intended and I I just think it was a reflection on him, but this is, I think it's worth discussing why she is so triggered by this thing and like why this is bothering her so much to the point where she feels like people need to be sticking up for her. It seems very clear that he's just a lazy gift giver and probably like a terrible boyfriend in that regard or whatever, you know. Yeah.

No, to me, it's, I totally agreed. And I mean, I guess maybe what for her. I would just look into like was there a time in the past where something happened where you didn't receive like an appropriate level of like in a group setting you didn't you didn't you were left out or something like that in a group setting that really made you feel awful and that was maybe when you were younger when it was like higher stakes because this just also seems like she's 36 like they're all kind of like coworkers it just seems like again yeah the fact that she's mad at everyone who works with her for not being angry at this person.

And someone actually did buy her like a compensation gift basket. Yeah, which seems really nice. I wouldn't do. I wouldn't have done that probably either. That was, I would almost look at this as a win, you know, like the fact that somebody else cared enough to come out and like help try to fix it,

that's got to be enough. I think the, I think this isn't about because it's not about the one guy that, miss the assignment. And even somebody else was nice enough to go ahead and try to repair it. So though, you know, that's, it's like this big, I get it. You're right. There probably is some like group trauma, something about being in a group setting and being embarrassed or not feeling good enough or well, I'm sure what it comes down to is that she felt like she wasn't well liked. Right. Because of this. And other people felt like she wasn't well-liked either because of the lack of effort from this one young kid.

But then the way she's reacted to it, I think really then is going to reinforce that idea that she's not well-liked because she's isolating herself. She's holding this grudge against everyone who's there. She's making it into like something that is, she calls it bullying. I don't, I don't, I wouldn't call it that personally. I mean, she can feel how she'd feel. But like almost sometimes the labels that you put on things can make them feel bigger or, or less big in your mind. Like the words, it just almost goes to show like how important words are and how,

and labeling things are into like our perception of them. A hundred percent. Yep. Your perception is your reality. And we talk about that all the time. So if she's perceiving this as being bullied, then she's going to feel like she needs to cower in the corner, which is only going to end up being a self-fulfilling prophecy

that she's not well-liked, because now she's acting in a way that's not easy to like someone that's resentful and angry and bitter and isolating. So I think everyone liked you. I think everything was fine up until that point. Maybe it wasn't your favorite cast. Maybe they all did happen to be younger and we're bonding. Maybe they're in like different, you know,

cultural age or whatever it is. And I think that that's what that was and the candy bar was like completely irrelevant. I think if another person, if he picked a different person's name, he would have gotten the same candy bar no matter who. Yeah. Whose name he picked out of the hat. I don't think this was personal. And yeah, I would just try to figure out what it is that's so bothersome about you feel

like everyone, if this was a private exchange and nobody saw it, I also don't think it would bother her as much. It was something about being embarrassed by being the one person that got a crappy gift. So, yeah, that's definitely something to explore when she gets on land with a full therapist. And I mean, I don't want to like make her feel embarrassed of the way she reacted because like, I think that probably doesn't help her mentally to go through it is to be like kind of a of this, what we're calling an overreaction. But I think sometimes that's like, you know, the good, the kind of the beauty of the situation she's in is this is going to be, she's leaving this ship.

Yes. She can sort of put it all behind her. It's not like she's working with these people for like the rest of her life. And she can just kind of like work through that. So the next time that happens, it's less about what happens and more about the way that she thinks about it. Totally. And I think if you do hear this before you have to, you still have three or four weeks left

on this ship, I think. And since you're not in therapy and this is your only shot, I think this would be a great opportunity for you to say, I'm going to change my perspective. I'm going to jump back in. I'm going to move on and I'm going to try to enjoy this. And especially the person that was compensating, you know, with the other gift and the other people that said, yeah, that wasn't cool. He put no effort in. Focus on those people. focus on the people that are kind to you because you don't want this to set your life in a direction of, you know, now you're just lonely and a little sad or irritable or whatever. I would take this as an opportunity to say this is my perception of this situation and I can

change it if I want to. And it's a big challenge. We talked very early on me and you about being a kid and being like in a bad mood about something. Yes. And then you're ready to like not be in a bad mood anymore. And it's kind of like, I don't want it to be a thing that I don't, I just want to like join back in with the party. Right. Come back in and like pretend like I wasn't just freaking out. Right. And not have everyone be like, oh, look who's come back to join us. Oh, you're ready now. You know, so then you end up just staying in your little pout stage longer because you don't want to own your own shit. Like, yeah, I always always.

overreacted. Or you've already invested so much into like creating the scene that it can feel like and like again wrapped up in your ego. Like to say, okay, I'm going to let it go. And I think that's true. We were just talking about apologizing or holding a grudge. Like I think that's true for anything. Like you have to, it's important to ask yourself like is this worth like dying on this hill? Yes. And sometimes in that moment like I'm sure when she opened up when she saw that her candy bar was like sitting right out in front of everyone. Everyone else is running around like, he he, let me find my gift. And it's like, you know, she's standing there with her chocolate bar and like, that's it. She probably in her physical body felt like a rage reaction or like a real

severe activation. And so she conceptualized it with the undertone of that. And then once you calm down, you can kind of reevaluate, but that's when it's harder to get back in. So I think just like, I'm sure you've seen this. I see this with little. kids, even my kids are almost beyond this now. A little kid that's like so mad about something. And you're like, oh, look, a puppy. And they're like, oh, okay, puppy. And they just like can change the channel in their mind because there's no ego. There's no shame of like, oh, I look stupid now that I just was like throwing myself on the floor over a lollipop. And now I'm just going to get up and go pet that puppy and pretend it never happened. Meanwhile, even someone, you know, a kid who's like nine

kind of has to almost like unwind their ego a little bit and like protect their ego and being like okay fine like I'll do it you know like have to still protect that part of you that came from a visceral physical place initially probably like I'm triggered that's what a trigger is something happening in your body that then your brain says whose fault is it where is the danger how do I protect myself yeah that's a great exercise I remember my my therapist giving me that exercise when I would get like, because, you know, I've talked about my relationship anxiety or kind of feeling insecure, especially in the beginning of dating Mike, or if he would do something that I would perceive as like a slight, even if it wasn't really a slight, like, he didn't want to go to like a workout class with me or like, you know, he didn't call exactly when he said he was going to call. It would be like, you know, if you take a second and you talk about this all the time, like your pauses and you're kind of like, okay, like, what is actually going on? here. Like, is this like a reaction that most people would have or is this a reaction that is like that I, that is amplified for me because of some past situation. Which is sort of trying to

me that this is a bigger deal than it actually is. Yes. I'm sure maybe for this woman, it was like, you know, I know they have like Valentine's Day in elementary school. At least when I was a kid, it was like, I wonder if this is, I wonder if this is it for her. Right in and tell us, they used to have Valentine's Day in elementary school and it was like you could just do whatever you want it. You could give valentines to your best friends. You could give valentines to you didn't have to. And now it's like please send in 24 valentines. Make sure everyone gets one. No names or you know, whatever it is like equal. Everyone's getting the same number of valentines. But when I was a kid, I don't know about you. There was no like making sure everyone got equal valentines. And I remember the popular kids,

They would, people would come in with those like jumbo cards that were like, you know, bigger than your whole head. And I'm looking in my box. And there's like three like, not even like two little valentines from like my two best friends or whatever it is. So maybe there was something like that that could have been sort of like a trigger for her that of being embarrassed in a gift giving group setting thing. And if that's the case or there's something there, I would just own it. except that, you know, maybe you overreacted and use it as an opportunity to say, I followed my internal trigger for too long and I'm going to like intentionally undo it now and jump back in and get back in with the group.

Nobody's thinking about the secret bunny anymore. Agreed. Except you. Yes. So don't let it ruin your life. Don't let it ruin your time. Even your next, when you're listening to this, when you're done, go out, do something social, be nice to someone, go give some positive energy, get involved in something, jump back in,

enjoy the last of it, and then you'll get a new crew in another few weeks. That's my guess. I love that. All right. Well, good luck. Let us know how that worked out. Yeah. And now we have a special Scandibald edition of the Betchesis where we debate an ethical dilemma.

So you don't watch the show, right? No, you're not watching. But, you know, I've even had patience that, like, kind of talk to me about being triggered by some of the stuff that happens. I probably should watch it. You're going to have to start from scratch. I basically don't. That's the thing about watching it.

It's so much more scandalous when you've watched all 10 seasons. And then your life has passed you by. Exactly. I mean, I don't want to like, you know, take away from you raising your children or running your therapy practice. But so I'll read the email. And it's, I think there's like, I mean, we just talked about reunions, but there are so much juicy ethical stuff to really get into especially as it comes to bander pump rules so i'll read

the email i'm coming fresh from watching part three of the bander pump rules reunion post scandal and i have a bet just this question for you about the way it was handled for those who may not know tom sandal cheated on his partner ariana nine years with their close friend raquel the scandabal news broke in march and we finally got to see tom and rakell get dragged by two-thirds of the cast for the past three weeks It was amazing, wildly entertaining and incredibly gratifying to watch. The Chadenfreude. I'm seeing Tom and Raquel have to own up for their transgressions was so, so good. However, I'm curious what you think of the level of vitriol that came from the non-Ariana cast members, including Lala, Katie, and James Kennedy.

As much as I enjoyed their commentary and mostly agreed with it, I found myself recoiling at the heightened level of venom and name-calling that came from their side of the room. At no point did I judge Ariana for reacting the way she did during the reunion, but the level of piling on from Lala and James just got out of hand. They continued to call Tom and Raquel names, calling them subhuman and evil, among other things. By the end of it, I felt like they were just bullies and enjoying their one opportunity to stomp all over these people without any chance of blowback. After the show, I saw a video post of the reunion on Bravo's official Instagram page, and almost all of the comments agreed with my point of view. people seem to agree that it went to the level of bullying and this reunion was not a constructive way to go about this. They even went so far as to say Bravo was irresponsible to present this level of bullying to the public the way that they did. That's not to mention that Tom has a point when he claims Lala and James are hypocritical considering that they cheated with each other when James was still dating Raquel.

Naomi's like, I have no idea what's going on here. I'm kind of figuring out. You have a sense. Okay. So why exactly do they think they have a like to stand on here? and is this situation really any different just because it's recent? So here's my betcha's question. What do you think of the way these people piled on to Tom and Raquel?

Do you think it rose to the level of bullying? Is it the duty of your friends to come to your aid after you're cheated on by attacking the people who wronged you? And what do you think of people who have cheated in the past directing this level of vitriol at another pair of adulterers? Is this just the pot calling the kettle black? Is this scandal of all situation on a different level because Ariana and Raquel were so close? Okay. So here's just like a little clip of, the kind of commentary going down at this reunion.

I don't see anything good coming for either of those rats. A reunion that may be more explosive. Don't even look at me. You don't deserve to look at this. And dramatic. James and Lala can't talk because they f***ed until this. I wasn't your best friend, help. Then anything we've seen in the show's 10-year history. Put your timelines together to match.

I have been super selfish. Selfish does not cover it. Diabolical, demented, subhuman. Poo-poo-head? Both of you, poop-poo heads. What do you think of the idea of like when someone does something wrong that like, let's say one of your friends, their husband cheated on them, like, how much should you be pilot? How much is your responsibility to like tell them, tell them exactly what you think of them? And I mean, this is obviously a very different scenario because it's like your honor.

show where like that is the topic and you're being asked to comment on a situation at hand. Right. You know, I think that it's so different because in these shows, everyone's trying to get airtime. Everyone's trying, like we talked about with your image. Everyone's trying to protect their image and show that they're the good, loyal friend. And it's not surprising to me that the people that are being super loud about this are ones that have also been unfaithful, right? that's the concept that like yeah i mean that's part of it i think it's like one that they're very loud and like really really mean yeah but i mean some might say deserving but then you know there's people who are there's other people in the comments who have been cheated on who were like

get them like you know there's i think it kind of can trigger some people and that you so that's how i think sometimes you get that like mob mentality or people who are like yeah really going for someone when they feel triggered by something or they feel like they relate to it, you can be a little bit blinded by your rage. Totally. And again, and it's interesting, even we talked about like being at a comedy club and other people are laughing. And so you're laughing. I think there's this tribal mentality of like everybody's attacking, so you're attacking. And I do think that it can be, it's not productive. Like it's not, it's, I mean, it feels cathartic probably for the people that are, you know, they're, they're probably are triggered. This is, they're, they're. They're,

friend and she was really hurt. And so I do think there's a part of it that genuinely comes from a place of I'm protecting this person and I'm sticking up for my friend. But I do think when it gets to that level, it almost becomes, I agree, it becomes like a tribal sort of, you know, we're all, you know, like attacking the weakest monkey in the group because we can. And it's a way for us to get out some type of negative energy or some, to me, the idea that these two cheated, but now they get to demonize someone who cheated worse is like perfect for them. Yeah. You know, like it makes them look, it's an opportunity to be like, well, we're not that bad because these people did, they were best friends and they did this. And so that, you know, now we can kind of deflect from ourselves

and project some of this negative energy onto somebody else. But yeah, I agree. I don't think it's productive to have it be a big pile on like that. Right. I mean, to what extent? Because everything is evolutionarily, like, sort of important, I wonder. Because, like, what role does, like, vengeance? Because I think that's part of the motivation here, too, is like,

let me get revenge on this guy who did this really wrong thing. And we need him to feel, like, really bad because we felt really bad. And I think that's sort of when you get to, like, the core of it, it's like, what is the evolutionary purpose of revenge? Because I've felt that too. It's like if someone hurts me, I want them to feel very hurt themselves. Yeah, for sure. It's interesting. I mean, I think it probably, you know, and I'm just thinking of this as I'm saying it right now, at the deepest of deep comes from there's a threat and I want to get rid of it. Right. You know, like, kill it, basically. But I can't kill you because like I'd go to jail and I can't do that.

So the next thing is to just, like, hurt you as much as possible. Like, I think it probably does come from a place of, like, in the oldest of millions of years ago, there's someone who's a threat to me for some reason and I want to eradicate them. Yeah. I mean, it's a very, I would think it would have to be like a very extremely Zen, like Buddhist monk person to be like, oh, I've, this person is cheated on me. And I wish them just happiness. forward. Right. Like, I mean, I guess maybe there are people like that. I don't really know any.

And like, is that, is that even where you want to be, though? Like, if something really terrible happens to you is the goal to be like, I for, I mean, like that seems very like, you know, like Christian to be like, forgive, you know what I mean? Like just forgive everyone. It seems like a very nice thought. But I don't know. Is that even like psychologically healthy? I just think it's so because we are so wired, like for, and it really comes from like mating, right? And like wanting to know that like the children that you're raising and protecting and whatever are your own genetic offspring. So you can spread your DNA and like survival of the fittest and all that stuff. So that's kind of where this, why cheating feels so terrible. It's like that's you're supposed to be the person

that's going to bring the, you know, the antelope that they killed back. And so that's, to your cave and share it with you and your children, but maybe he's bringing his antelope and sharing it with someone else's, you know, right, children and like not, he's not your protector. And if there's a bad guy or there's a tiger, he's going to go and protect that woman and her children before he's going to come and protect your, yeah, it's like a survival instinct. It's a survival instinct that why we hate cheating so much. And I think it's so ingrained. And it's interesting that that piece, like, cheating is just universally like the worst. And every, you know, there's some cultures where maybe, you know, even among this cast who have all cheated on each other all throughout like so many of the seasons, there's so many plot points that involve them all cheat.

I think almost all of them have cheated. So even then, even though it's like almost normalized within this particular group, it's still like this huge crazy thing. And I mean, there are other layers to it. It's like two people who have been together nine years. They own a house together. If she was freezing her eggs, he was going to fertilize them. It was like this whole, you know, larger discussion. To me, that's the biggest for me personally.

I think the most interesting thing is that they're all cheaters and they're all getting so angry about this. And I think that that's about protecting their own ego and making them feel like I'm not that bad because these people are worse. And that's, I think, a huge part of why they're piling on because it's like, oh, my God, this is a chance to project everything away from me and make me feel better by piling on these people. So I don't think it's so much about like, oh, he hurt my friend because there's a woman that they, that was hurt by their cheating or another man that was hurt by their cheating and they didn't care that much. So I don't, I think there's a little bit that's

like, oh, you hurt my friend and I feel bad for my friend. But I have a hunch. It's a It's a lot more about their own saving of their own ego and feeling like, I'm not that bad because you're worse, which is why I think it's getting so hot and intense. Yeah. I mean, do you think there's a level like even, let's say even for Ariana, who was the one who was wronged, like how far is too far in terms of letting out that kind of emotional venom as you're so mad and so angry at someone who has done something like, you know, what can you call an ex who has cheated on you? Like, is there a line? is there like, obviously you shouldn't do any, like, physical harm or like anything like that. But like, where do you feel like the line is between, you know, I deserve this rant or this, you know, emotional obliteration versus like, it's too far. Right. Yeah. I mean, look, there's a difference between like ideal and reality. I think in reality there's no way.

Like ideal might sound like just saying how it made you feel. saying, I feel embarrassed. I feel devalued. Like saying all the things about how you feel, how that act of that person made you feel, calling him like a vulgar, horrific, disgusting name is like the reality. Like, that's not, that's, you know, that just is this urge, like you said, to hurt the person. Yeah. That's kind of like that instinctual old, like monkey brain.

You know, that's like that protective. brain that's like you hurt me. I can't kill you, but I'm going to do the closest thing that I can to hurting you because I feel like it's going to eradicate the danger. But it's not really. So like ideally none of that would be productive and beneficial. In real life, I think you can have, maybe you have like one shot at it. When you first find out, you can let it fly. Go for it. say what you have to say and then you know because it can see it can feel like inadequate to just be like when you slept in my had sex with someone with my friend in my bed while I was at my grandma's funeral it made me feel very upset right I can see why someone like like like why that wouldn't

feel like enough to like fully encompass like the rage and the hurt that you would feel in that way right so I can see like that's why I like that you give a free pass for the first um aside from like violence i think you can just have one occasion where i mean look not even i think there this is going to happen on many occasions i think the sooner you cannot scream and name call the better right right that's probably just not going to make anything better and i don't know that it's going to make you feel better but what happens is i think people feel very you know and again, boiling it down to human nature and our wiring. And that's what's running the program, right? That's what's running our reactions to everything is like our DNA and our wiring and our evolution. But like,

it feels very weak to just sit quietly and say, you hurt my feelings. And this is how it made me feel and I feel and I feel embarrassed. And it feels weak, which leads us to feel like, if I'm weak, this is going to happen again. Right. So, you know, doing the soft thing and just saying, like, like all of your soft emotions in this moment, I think the program that's running in our human bodies leads us to believe that's not protective. And this is going to happen again if you don't eradicate the threat. So that's why I think people lead with that like aggressiveness, but I don't, in reality,

you're not, A, you're not eradicating the threat. The only thing that's really going to eradicate the threat is like never speaking to the person again and never allowing them to cheat on you again. Yeah, I think the threat has been eradicated also just by the fact that in this particular situation, it has been such a national thing that everyone in America knows that he's cheated. Everyone in America can see how wrong do you were. They see the footage week after week after week of all the deception and the lies that he's telling. So I mean, I've said this on a different show.

I'm like, if it's going to happen, like, this is as close as you can get to like offing someone. Yeah, this is like pretty much as without, you know, physically. harming someone like this guy can't go anywhere without being like harassed and booed which again I'm not saying like it's okay or bad or like or anything but it is a fact so right and it doesn't feel fair because there's so many thousands of people out there that have done the same thing and are not living that way she's like a little lucky yeah I said this before people don't like when I say that but I'm saying if it's good obviously you don't want this to ever happen if it's going to happen. And I was thinking also about like the footage from this show where it's like,

who else gets like, because I'm sure when someone cheats on you, and you've talked about this too on the show where it's like when someone cheats about you, you think back to all the times that like, oh, they told me this, but they were actually doing that. And like you probably become so enraged, but it probably feels very isolating because no one else has like has those memories that you have or was there for those times. And in this case, everyone, like they found out in the middle of the season. And so everyone got to watch the whole rest of the season knowing he was cheating on her, dissecting everything he was saying to her, knowing that he said he was doing this, but he was doing that instead. And to me, I feel like that would be incredibly validating

to have everyone in the country enraged with you as you walk through this experience. Because I have to imagine that when you get cheated on, like, that's just such a big part of it, like those flashbacks or those feelings of being re-triggered over and over as you remember a memory of them stepping out to take a call or, you. going to a place that you thought they were. Right. And feeling stupid in not like having it, you know, being gullible or being, you know, again, that feeling of being weak and vulnerable to a threat, I think is a big part of why people want to lash out.

So, yeah, I think the pile on is more about the people that are piling on and their own feelings. Like you said, they're all cheating on each other like and have been. for however long so. Well, what if it was your close, what if it was like people who are relatively innocent? It's your close friend, their boyfriend cheats on them, their husband cheats on them.

Like how, what is, I mean, we had sort of a question about this, but that was a little bit, a while a few weeks ago about, that was a little bit more about like physical abuse and someone who had like actually like,

and again, not the cheating is like, okay, but I think it's a little bit of a different level. But where is the line for like, where your loyalty can drive your actions or the way that you would encounter someone who was wrong to your friend. Yeah.

I mean, look, everyone has their own limits. I personally think that, like, you can express yourself and the calmer you can do it, the better. But obviously, that's not the way that we work as human beings when we're really, you know, hurt and feel like the, you know, our sense of security. And, you know, if this happened to a friend of mine, I'd definitely be, like, infuriated and enraged and probably have some things to say about it, but I don't know that it would be super productive to just keep, you know, like, calling this person every day and like unloading on

hammer. You know, I just don't know how beneficial that really, it feels like it is. It's almost the same way that we, our brains have not evolved to understand the concept of like modern day stress, you know, like, our brains have not evolved to understand the concept of like eradicating a threat. Like you're not eradicating a threat by screaming at a person or like calling them, you know, vulgar names on TV.

It just feels like you are the same way it kind of, you know, feels like you're protecting yourself from a tiger when you, you know, decide to worry about your finances when you're really okay. Like that's where it comes from. It's like, Right. We're working with the brain that hasn't caught up necessarily to the time that we're in.

And I don't fault anyone. It's human nature. It is how we are. That happened to me, I'd be the same way. So I'm not judging anyone that does that. But I'm saying if you can realize that like you're working with old programming and that's not really going to make anyone feel any better, that might be helpful. Agreed. I mean, it would be bad for TV, but good for the world, as I'm. I like to say about a lot of Real Housewives interactions or Vanderpump Rules interactions. What's good for us is bad for, you know, the world. It's great for TV, but it's really like bringing out the worst in people because they're all, they all know that they're being watched and they have an image to protect. How come you didn't protect your friend?

Right. And who doesn't get called back is the person who reacts in a very boring. If they react, if you react like rationally and calmly, you're not invited back. Yes. Because that's not good TV. Yes. And so if you're there in the first place, I assume a goal of yours is to perform. Stay on the show.

Stay on the show. Keep your job. Get more followers. People that want to know what you have to say. So yeah, I think everyone has their own horse in the race in terms of how involved. You see, I mean, I watch other shows and I see the reunions. And there's people that's like, were you even that are like getting all amped? It's like, were you even on the show?

Like, I don't even remember you. You know, it's like they just want some air time. This is their moment. Yeah. Yeah. So. Well, if you want more Bravo takes, you can listen to, mention it all on Bravo by Bech's the Betches, the Betches channel. It's a podcast. I also will be on the Real Housewives of New Jersey

reunion episode this Wednesday. Let's do some intentions, potentially, you know, get away from reality TV, cleanse our brains. Do you want to read our intentions email? Sure. Looking for help with an affirmation slash mantra for a recent problem in my life. I just move in with my boyfriend in an amazing apartment in the Upper West Side. Everything is perfect. The neighborhood, the building, you can practically hear the birds chirping, except for one thing. Our next door neighbor is a full-time piano player who also sings opera. You can't make this up. This woman plays piano from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. I honestly don't know when she even eats because it's nonstop. I work from home and the sound has been driving me crazy. I've already filed complaints and

suggested remedies to my landlord, but let's assume nothing will get fixed because it never does. I really just need a way to get through the day when I'm working from home while this goes on. Is there an affirmation or mantra you can give me about surviving these moments and trying not to focus on it when it's not happening that second? I literally have anxiety when it's quiet because I know it's only a matter of time until it starts up again. Sincerely, just trying to enjoy my $5,000 apartment. That's very funny. very funny very relatable i think i've happened i've had this happen when like you know when there's like an alarm that's broken or like some sort of electronic that's broken and then it keeps making a noise but it's

like every 20 seconds yes and then you're like oh did i fix it and then you hear something and then you're like more waiting for it to come back yeah yes so i totally understand where she's coming from what do you what do you think yeah i can validate how annoying this might be especially because it's like her home and she feels like there's like an invader in her house. So I really validate this. However, I do think that it's not like construction. It's piano. Right. And if this person's practicing 12 hours a day, they're probably pretty good. I guess. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if they're professional or what it is. I get it. I valid like just to put that out there. I validate it. I don't think anyone would want to live with this. I think she should fight about it. I think she should make a

point to tell the person. Or I don't know if she tried actually just going next door to the woman directly and saying, hey, your piano playing is beautiful. You're so talented. I think this is, you know, like it's lovely. However, it's a bit distracting when I'm trying to work from home. Do you think we can create a window? Whatever. I think she could, I don't know if she's tried that, but I might also just first go to the actual person because that might be better than going, you know. I mean, it's crazy to me that you would just think it would be okay to just be like playing a loud instrument all day.

Right. In your apartment. Right. Maybe she doesn't realize how loud it is or that, because if nobody's saying anything to her, it's different. If they're coming and they're saying like, hey, this is a problem.

Because the other thing is there's technology to where you can play an instrument and wear headphones. and I mean, it couldn't be like an actual piano. She'd have to get a keyboard and headphones electronic and like listen to her piano playing through her headphones, which is a thing that exists. So it could be a win-win for everybody. She wouldn't be able to play her big, beautiful piano, whatever she has, which, you know, maybe they could create a window.

You could play it, you know, between 12 and 2 or, you know. Totally. Oh, yeah, that's a great. I didn't even think of that option. It would be like a great, it would be good start. Just ask, just explain to her. what's going on with you. Right.

See if she gives a shit. I feel like if she's normal, she would. Right. If she's not, then maybe you've got to move. I don't know. Like, I mean, how long can one really, if no one's doing anything about it and this is happening, like eventually I do think you probably need to move. From the way she phrased it, I have a feeling something's going to give and they're going,

I mean, I just think it's going to be unacceptable. She can't be the only person that's like hearing this. not enjoying it 12 hours a day. That's a lot. That's crazy. I can see if you're like, okay, from seven, you know, from whatever, 10 to 11 in the morning is like classical hour. And as I have my coffee, I listen to my neighbor play her piano. Yeah. But fine. You know, it's all day. It's not. All day is excessive. I do think that something's going to have to give on this and that there are going to be changes. And even in her question, she was sort of like, until this happens. Okay. So until she can fix the.

constant piano playing all day long with no reprieve. Right. What should she tell herself? Okay, well, one is like obviously a practical suggestion, which is that she might need to just put on some like noise cancelling headphones with some white noise or something like a low level thing where she's just like, this isn't ideal. Nobody wants to have to wear noise canceling headphones all day in their own apartment.

In their own apartment. But if we're talking about, you know, the intermediary period, until you either move or get this handled, that's one option and just play whatever music you want or just play like a soft white noise that drowns out what's going on next door. Again, validating, not saying that it should be this way that you should have to do this. And the intention that I wrote for her is I seek acceptance over control because I think it's like in those, like she said, it's in those moments of space where she's sort of like, I think maybe it's gone. How long is this going to be? Like, I want it to be longer. Like, I want this quiet to last.

Yeah. Instead of maybe shifting it to sort of like, okay, this is going to come back. And it's going to be okay when it comes back. And I'm going to put on my noise canceling headphones. Or perhaps she can enjoy the music a little bit. I don't know. Maybe she could just be like, hey, can you play, you know, Beethoven or whatever, you know, whatever she likes. Maybe she could put in some requests. I mean, piano inherently is like, I think, a pleasant sounding music instrument. It's not like it's a drum set. It just always feels less pleasant when it's not your choice. Not in your control. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why I kind of wrote like I seek acceptance over control because I think part of this is she's not choosing it.

She's not choosing how long it happens. She's not choosing how loud it is. She's not choosing what type of music is being played. And she's feeling like totally out of control in her environment. So I think she can accept it in a few ways. One by saying like, okay, maybe it is, I can seek out the beauty in this or some pleasantness of this music. There must be somebody who's paying to go see her do this.

if she's really playing 12 hours a day without a lunch break. Wouldn't your fingers hurt? I mean, I validate you, person. This is crazy. This is a lot and this is intense. But she's probably a professional that people are like going to pay to come see. So you're getting it for free. Maybe you can lean in a little bit, see the beauty in it.

And when you really can't see the beauty in it, put on your noise canceling headphones and, you know, move on with it. your day. But so my intention was I seek acceptance over control because I think in that space, it feels worse because she's like almost trying to cling to the space and control the space. Right. Well, can you both seek acceptance and try to change what's happening? A hundred percent. That's the best way to live your life. You know, I accept the things I cannot change and I change the things I can. Right. So like, well, I think she's probably torn. of like, I don't want to, I'm not if I'm ready to like accept this. I'm still trying to change it.

Right. Exactly what you just said, I think is where she needs to tweak it. Because and where most people need to tweak, it's almost like they can't accept while they're trying to change because it almost feels like if I accept this, I'm giving up and it's never going to change. And it's the same thing with being single or trying to have a baby or trying to get a job. Like it feels like if I relax into this, I'll stop fighting for. what I really want. Right. Well, I mean, how do you like then come to terms with that? That's not like, how do you accept something while trying to change it? Write down a list of all the things that you can do. I can contact the super. I can contact the

manager. I can contact the owner of the building. I can go next door, write a lovely note with a gift basket or something, you know, nice and say, I love your playing. It's, you know, beautiful. However, blah, blah, blah. I'd appreciate if we can create a. time, strike, whatever. Make a list of all the thing, the action steps that you can actually take

and start taking them. And once you've done all the things that you can do, at that point, you have to either learn to enjoy the music, invest in a really good pair of noise canceling headphones, probably both, and say, I'm doing what I can to change this.

And it doesn't help for me to hate it. It almost feels like, I think she feels like she has to hate it. in order to like make it stop. Yeah. But she doesn't. She just has to do what she can and then probably try not to hate it. Because otherwise she's like just ruining her own in between while waiting period.

Yeah. I love that. I'm going to try that for myself. Yeah. The list and then acceptance. Because I agree. I think it's like that's the hardest part of acceptance is like I don't know if I'm ready to like accept the life where there's music all day. Right. Like you said, like if you're doing everything you can and you've done everything on the list, then like there's nothing left to do.

Right. It's symbolic for people that, you know, are going through like a bigger life picture thing. Like if someone's single and they're like, you know, I feel like I need to be unhappy being single because if I'm happy being single, I'll stop trying. I'll stop looking. I'll like accept my singleness and then I'll end up alone versus like, okay, I'm going to go on a day to week. I'm going to join a pickleball league and I'm going to update my profile, my hinge profile, whatever thing you want to do. These are my goals for myself of like what I need to do in order to feel like I'm doing everything I can to get what I want and then accept, relax and enjoy if you can. And, you know, enjoying your life as a single person is probably way easier than enjoy. like an intrusive opera singer as a neighbor, but it is kind of symbolic for relaxing into that, which you cannot change in general.

I love that. All right. I'm going to try that. I'll let you know how it goes in future episode. Yeah, I would love that. Let's play some trigger. I will read the first one. Hello, Jordana and Dr. Naomi.

I'm a 48-year-old woman, not exactly the meat of your demographic, but I do enjoy listening to all the stories, people write in, you give. Listening to your podcast is a bright spot I look forward to every week. That's so sweet. Yeah. Here's the issue. I have a friend who begins every interaction, text, phone calls in person, literally every interaction with a greeting specific to the day of the week. Happy hump day. Happy Friday Eve. Happy Friday. I used to indulge her and respond with the same or similar greeting,

but over a couple of years, we've been friends. It has become stale and quite frankly annoying. So now I specifically ignore the greetings and dive right into whatever. we are talking about, hoping she will get the hint and stop with the silliness. It's been months of this and no luck on getting her to ease up on it. Should I be triggered? Is this a universal annoyance regardless of age or am I turning into a cranky old betch? How do I get her to stop without hurting her feelings? Thanks for reading.

Not so fun day Sunday. This is funny. I think people do this to kind of like just have an entry point. Right. An upbeat entry point. Right. I don't think you're, you know, I don't think there's anything you could do about this. I think you just have to ignore it.

Yeah. I don't think it would be worth like bringing it up because it would, you just seem like such an asshole. Right. I think. It's just her texting style. I don't know. Do you have anything like this where it's like a way that somebody texts that like irks you? Yeah.

You know what irks me when like this is less from my friends, but more from like a third party. If someone calls me like Babe. Oh yeah. Like, hey babe. Yeah. It's just not a breeding that I particularly enjoy. Right. I think people are trying to warm up like a text.

Like sometimes when I tell, I'm just thinking to being introspective for a second. When I text other moms, sometimes I'll be like, hey, mama. And I'm like, that might be like weird and annoying, but it's kind of a way of being like not so cold in a text or something. Like I don't know why I do that. I'm trying to think about like why I'm trying to do like a term of endearment, I guess. A term of endearment that's like not just like if I want, let's say I want to ask them a question. Like what whatever is what camp is your kid doing this summer? Okay.

It feels a little weird to just be like, hi, what camp is your kid doing this summer? I'll usually do like, hey, exclamation points in place of terms of affection. Hey. Just wondering what camp is, right, whatever. Yeah, I get it. Truthfully, I wouldn't be into the, hey, mama. That's why I brought it up. Because I think I could see it being a little like cheesy, cheesy and weird.

Like, I don't know why I do that, but I'm not just kind of introspective in this moment of like I'm probably doing it to just like warm it up and make it like a little friendly. Right. You don't get tone over text. Yeah, you don't get tone. So I'm trying to like inject a little. Would you say it in person? No, I don't think so. Okay.

Maybe. I don't know. Are you, is someone writing this in about you somewhere? I'm not like a happy hump day. That's not my style. I agree. I think it's harmless. I think maybe if you're getting annoyed by it, she's getting annoyed by this person.

And maybe it's sort of like a side effect of that. Because you know when sometimes someone's, starting to annoy you and then everything they do annoys you. Yeah, I would, that's a good point. I would look into like if you're annoyed by this person in general and maybe this is just, you know, like a symptom of some fee for annoyance. The easiest thing to point to. Right. That does happen a lot where it's like you start to get annoyed about the like way someone's breathing or chewing or something and it's like there's something bigger going on. Right. It becomes like easier to latch on to this like solid thing than I think thinking about the friendship as a whole on occasion.

Because I have friends who do annoying things all the time, but if I'm like good with them, I don't really care. Right. It's more like once you're starting to see, like someone's starting to irritate you, everything you can see about them might start to irritate you. Yes. I agree with that on this. I would put this pretty low on the triggered scale. I'd give this like a two. Agreed.

And like if it was your thing, if it was your boss, you would never say anything. So. on. I think she's just trying to find an entry point. I get that it feels like a little annoying. But I think she's just trying to find a way to start up the conversation without like just coming at it. Right. And clearly this person does this because they are trying to like, again, come in warmly. Come in hot. A little too warmly, I guess. Yeah. And you know, maybe you could make a little joke about it. Maybe if you over did it, she would stop. Yeah, possibly.

I might encourage her. I don't know that I would go that route. That's true. She might be like, oh, she loves it. I'm going to bring out all my best stuff with her. Right. Yeah. All right.

Let's do another one. Do you want to read it? Yeah, I'll read this one. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. My group of nine childhood friends and I have had a longstanding WhatsApp group for 10 plus years. Because we live in different parts of the world and only get together every few years for key events, I've always really valued this as a way for us to keep in touch.

Over the years, we've covered. everything from quick picks of us going about our day to spirited, debated, and deep conversations. As someone living on her own and single, this was especially valuable to me to maintain connections during COVID lockdowns. Gradually, over the last couple of years, six of those friends had kids and have since created a new group chat because they, quote, didn't want to spam the group with kid stuff. I thought it was weird that our old group had fallen so silent, but since one of my parents have suddenly gotten sick. I've not had the headspace to pay too much attention. This weekend, we all flew into our hometown for an event, and the whole weekend, they would keep

mentioning stories slash pictures they had sent. When I would ask what they were referring to, they would simply say, oh, that must have been in the kids' chat. After prodding a bit, it seems this new group chat now houses the majority of day-to-day conversations, not all of which were kid-related. I adore their kids and seeing videos slash picks of them always brightens my day. Whenever they send me a picture, I express this or react to the message. So I can't help but feel upset and excluded that this divide has been created. How triggered should I be? Thanks for all you do.

Childless shouldn't equal friendless. I think this is super triggering. I could see why this would be really hurtful. Because it's like someone else has decided on her behalf that getting these pictures is like too much or annoying or like upsetting for her. And I think there's nothing kind of worse than feeling like you're like pitied and therefore excluded. There's like two things at the same time. Yes. Yes.

I think if she would have said, hey, I've like, you know, I'm single. I'm not really in this world. Maybe you guys can start a separate chat. Then she made her bed and now she has to lie in it. But she didn't do that. And I totally agree. I mean, I see from the friends perspective, it's no wonder that the other group chat has gone dormant because you're not going to be like, well, this has a kid in it. So I'm going to do this chat.

This one doesn't have a kid in it. now I'm going to send it to this chat. So like you have one chat that's going to take over. So I get that it kind of took on a life of its own probably what they weren't intending. But yeah, I could see why this feels really triggering, especially because she was like really enjoying connecting in this way with these friends on, you know, these chats. So she probably feels really lonely and excluded.

I could see. Yeah. Especially if she already felt maybe like a little behind or a little left out just not having them, then it being like such an obvious. obvious marker of like this is the like this is our new life it's like a group chat can be symbolic of like who's close to you in your life right so it's like oh I'd no longer talk and engage with people in my old childless life and now I'm only connecting with those in my in this current life like you can feel like you don't matter in their life at all see how that would be really

symbolic for that and I'm not saying that's like an intentional thing that they were to do I can see in their mind where they would be like they're probably trying to be. sensitive. Like if they were like, oh, Timmy has like, you know, a diaper rash. Like, what do you think we should use? And she's at work. And she's like, I don't know what kind of cream to use on Timmy's diaper rash. Like, I don't want to really hear about this, you know? Right. I don't think the intentions were necessarily like bad or like a bad spirit. Yeah. I think it's a simple fix. I think you need to go back to your friends and just be vulnerable and say, look, I feel I love seeing stuff about your kids. I don't mind hearing about diaper.

or whatever, like, I want to be included. And can you please add me to the other chat? And I'm sure they would say, sure, no problem. Yeah. And I think, like, I guess they wouldn't like announce the separate chat. So like she wouldn't have known. But I can see, have feeling like, oh, you've had this whole other like side friendship. No, I think they said to her, like, we didn't want to bombard you.

So we started a set, like she knew there was a separate chat. Right. But I guess she didn't know that was going to be like the only. The main chat. The other chat was going to become non-existent. I could see how that could happen just because you don't have, you know, like I said, you're not going to be like categorizing every text that you're sending, like kid or not kid. Yeah.

I would ask to be included. I would ask to be included in the other chat. And then I would also say like, I don't know how easy it is to connect with nine people in a group chat in like a really intimate way. Yeah. Personally. Totally. And I think maybe that works when you're younger and maybe like all are on the same page or like are all doing the exact same thing and you're coordinating like brunch plans or something right right but

I do think that like more meaningful connections are made through one-on-one conversations yeah the other thing yeah I agree it does sound like a big group chat I don't typically enjoy like enormous group chats like that either she could also go if there was nine of them and there's six in the new chat she can start like a you know just kind of putting a little juice into the chat with the rest of the people that are not in that group chat because it's not just her that was excluded from that chat. So she could kind of be like, just start texting in that chat more and maybe even being vulnerable with those friends and letting them know like, hey, you know, I'm not in this group chat.

I feel kind of excluded. Like I really feel connected to you guys when we can keep in touch a little more. So maybe we can try that. Although it's very vulnerable to be like talking in a group chat that hasn't been active in a while. And then you're like waiting to see if anyone answers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Then you feel like to lose. I mean, I've had this before too, where it's like you write something in the chat that you think is like funny or engaging and no one responds. And sometimes people don't respond because like other people haven't responded. So then it becomes like no one's answering. And then I feel like the person who initiates the text just feels kind of lame. I've been there. So I would be like scared to do that too. It feels very like. Totally. Or even, you know, maybe I could see that maybe going to like one person that she's closest with in that chat and saying like, hey, this is how I feel about, like, oh, kind of just saying this how I feel about the situation and the other chat and whatever. But I would go, I think she, for some reason is more connected or like the people that are in that other six.

I think she really like, that's where she's, if she was wanting to connect with the other three and that was fine with her, she would probably have done that already. Right. So I think she really probably needs to address this with those people. But another option is to, you know,

maybe one on one say, hey, I'm just feeling a little disconnected. Like there's this other group chat. We're not in it. I really enjoy like our, you know, check-ins and whatever. And I'd love to kind of give a little bit of energy into our friendship. Agree. But I give this like a six or a seven.

Yeah. I was going to say seven. I think this is pretty triggering. I mean, do you have this where you, like, I know you have a very close-knit group of friends? I don't know if there's a separate chat. Like, I wonder, is there like a chat where they talk about baby stuff or whatever? Do you feel like they talk about that in your regular? You know, I think there might be.

I don't think it would bother me as much. And again, I think maybe it's all added to it because I like, I see these people a lot or I speak to them like on the sides a lot. Like most of my interactions are not one of one. Right. And I think this person, she says everyone lives in like a different area of the world. And this is like their main form of communication. So I think that that would feel more isolating and more hurtful than the situation I'm in where I'm kind of like, yeah, I don't know if I need the like diaper rash updates. Like I'm okay with you.

Right. Having a separate chat about that. But it seems like in this particular friendship, the chat is used to like really stay connected to what's going on in people's lives because they don't see each other. Right. To speak to each other very often. Yes. Yeah. I agree.

So yeah, I do think it's important for you to maintain. And maybe it is like a turn that you can take to develop more of these one-on-one friendships versus doing it in this group setting, perhaps. That might be a place that she wants to lean in as well. Yeah. And I mean, I can see why it would be, why they would think it would be annoying. Like sometimes you are, even in like larger family chats, like you're going about your day. And then there's just like random like updates about something that you're not involved in.

or don't, you know, maybe don't have an opinion on and then it's just like a lot. So I can understand the other side of it. Yeah, totally. It's like, would you want to be on a group chat that was like going over an itinerary for a trip that you weren't going on? Right. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I could, I could see that.

But I also think, again, and the whole concept of the triggered segment is sort of like, what is this bringing up for you? And I think if I think it's okay. to just not respond to like almost if you know that's true i give myself permission if there's like a big group chat like i don't feel like i have to comment on every single thing and i also cannot be then offended if i put something in there and people don't comment on it agreed as long as like one person saying something then it's you know like okay that's it yeah they're not being ignored i don't have to answer this if i don't want to the like button is your friend the like button is the

best thing that was ever invented on the iPhone. It's just like the ability to comment without having to think of a comment. Yeah, exactly, exactly. All right. Well, I think that we did it. Did it again. People did it again. Saving people from themselves. Week after week. Exactly. Doing God's work. And we'll be back next week. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales-Pucco, and Rebecca Salis MacCat. Editing by Massilio Perez. Yes, Booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to Oversharing at Betches.com

or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.