Oversharing - How To Detach Single-ness From Attractiveness

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

Resolution season is right around the corner, so Jordana and Naomi start the week with another intention-setting email from a listener who’s looking to find a more healthy narrative about why she’s single. They tell us why being single may not be as connected to attractiveness as you think, and why attraction is more subjective than any of us realize. Then another listener writes in to ask why her husband keeps asking her to do “Dry January” even though she’s made it clear that she doesn’t want to stop drinking for a whole month. Is this a veiled attempt to get her to curb her drinking, or is he simply unwilling to accept that she won’t go along with his every request? The Betchicist scenario involves a marital dispute over relocating to a warmer climate in the Winter, which necessitates lying about their dog being a service animal. Is this really about the animal, or an excuse from someone who doesn’t want to leave town in the first place? Finally, the Triggered scenarios involve a revelation about a friend who cheated, and another about not being allowed to ever be in a bad mood. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Trinidad Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And we are back.

It's already mid-December. I can't believe it. The holiday season is in full throttle. you know, all the Christmas Hanukkah cheer to be had. I think it's a great time to talk about the intentions segment that we've been doing. And I think people have been liking it. And obviously it's kind of like a New Year's resolution-y type of a feel. Definitely true.

Do you like New Year's resolutions? You know, I don't, anything that's going to bring you back to focus, even if it's for a day, a week, a month, I think is a good thing to do. So it's nice if people would kind of set of resolution each week would be great, but we don't do that. But yeah, I don't think it's bad. Do you feel a way about New Year's resolutions? I kind of agree with that. I like the idea of like a New Year's resolution is an intention.

It's usually more about like, I feel like something more tangible. Right. Like I know people get annoyed with New Year's resolutions because they make the gym crowded for like the week after New Year's. people that go to the gym all the time are kind of like all you resolution people get out because I'm here all the time. Right. So I do think people get annoyed about that. Waiting for the fad to be over for everyone else.

Yes. But yeah, we could, I mean, we could just get right into our intentions segment considering, again, it's a big time of year for reflection. I feel like new year. I feel like before the new year and before my birthday, I'm always like reflecting on like the past. Big reflections, period. Totally. And reflections are great if you turn them into something positive or with purpose.

When reflections are just like musings or rumination or, you know, kind of like harping on the same thing or using it to kind of get down on yourself, that's when it's not beneficial. If you can reflect and then say, okay, what do I want to be different or how do I want to change things? Then it's great. You should do it all the time. That's true. And if you can't change the actual tangible outcome, then it's a good time to work on changing the way you think about it. Amen. Love it.

Let's do our intention segment. I'll read it. We're starting off with it now where we change the order a little bit. Okay. Hi, Jordan and Dr. Naomi. I really enjoyed the new intention segment last episode and would love to get your feedback on my own negative thought patterns. I'm a 26, almost 27. It's so funny how like hypervigilant.

women are with like age. Right. Or I don't know it's just women, but I feel like there is a sense of like for me to, and speaking for myself also where it's like 33 and like three months and I have like nine months until my 34th. Right. It's very meaningful like to you, the difference between 33 and 34. For her, the difference between 26 and 27 like is meaningful. Meanwhile, like we talked about last week when you kind of, what was the expression you used like big picture? You know? When you zoom out. Zoom out. No one's thinking about them.

Right. Exactly. I'm a 26, almost 27-year-old woman living in New York City, and my biggest insecurity is that I've never been in a relationship. It makes me feel like there's something wrong with me, and I spend a lot of mental energy each day trying to figure out why I've been single for so long and worrying about whether I'll ever be in a relationship, let alone find a life partner. Throughout high school and college, I've never got much attention from guys.

I had my first kiss the summer after junior year of high school, at which point many of my friends had already been in relationships for a couple of years. The first kiss didn't feel super meaningful because the guy, my friend, was super drunk and didn't even remember it the next day. In college, I hooked up with guys very sporadically, always while drunk and never consistently, and had a lot of unrequited crushes. These patterns have persisted post-college. Since I've moved to New York, I've been on hinge dates, never more than three with the same guy, had one or two night stands, and a bunch more unrequited crushes, but still have never been in a relationship or even had a consistent fling. Look at me learning. Paragraph to paragraph. While dating and relationships

have always been a struggle for me, one thing that I have generally been happy with, especially now, is my friendships. I have a solid number of close friendships with both girls and guys and usually find it easy to make friends when meeting new people. It's confusing to me why I'm able to have many great long-term friendships but zero romantic relationships. A common train of thought I have to rationalize this is that the reason I've been unsuccessful in dating is because I'm not physically attractive. This is my line of reasoning. I have a lot of good friends, which means I must have a decent personality. And since the only major difference between a relationship and a friendship is attraction, the only thing that explains my lack of romantic relationships is my appearance. And therefore,

I must be ugly and undesirable. This is frustrating, and because it feels like beyond putting on makeup, there's not much I can do to change the way my face looks. I've caught myself having these thoughts every time someone rejects me, which usually happens in the form of an unrequited crush. Typically, meet a guy, usually a mutual friend a few times, start to develop a crush and then will express interest usually through the mutual friend. The guy will say they're not interested in being more than friends with me and then I'll try to rationalize why they're not interested. I often come to the conclusion that it must be because I'm unattractive, which causes me to spiral and be way more upset than I should be, considering I don't really know the guy that well. I would greatly appreciate

your insight on these patterned thoughts and would love your help in setting an attention. My goal is to believe a more healthy narrative about why I've never been in a relationship and become more confident about myself overall, especially regarding how I look. Thanks for all that you do. This podcast is super eye-opening and has been one of my favorite things to come out of 2022. Sincerely ugly betch. Oh, I don't like that sign off. Yeah, I don't like that sign off either. Look, I think a lot of people can get into this mindset. Even women that other people would consider, or men, would consider to be pretty attractive, can sometimes fall. into this, am I not pretty enough? Am I not, you know, skinny enough? Am I not something enough

for people? So I think this is a pretty common experience. But I will tell this listener that I think she can detach her singleness from her appearance. I read a study actually recently that was done by, I think Harvard sociology students where they found that more attractive people are less likely to be in successful relationships. Interesting. Yeah. Wonder why that is. They were trying to say some of the rationale is because very attractive people tend to

have lots of options. So they sort of go to like a grass is greener mindset and then don't really fully connect in the relationship and commit because they're always kind of feeling like whatever else is out there is a realistic option. and so they're never fully in. Right. Well, Chris Brock has that statement of like, you're only as loyal as your options.

But I don't know if that's true, but that was, I always enjoyed that joke. But also I wonder if it's like, because, you know, if you are more attractive, maybe you're making connections more based on that superficial type thing,

which means there might, maybe there's less going on underneath in the relationship and it's the superficial things tying you together, whereas if you're less conventionally attractive, the other stuff becomes more important. Yes, that's a good point. That's a good point. So I think just for her to kind of be able to say,

okay, this is not, we don't know what this listener looks like. I don't know if maybe she is. I mean, there are, they do, when they do these studies about attractiveness, they take, you know, 100 people's opinion on the level of attractiveness and they come up with a, you know, sort of attractiveness is relatively objective, I think, when you ask across a bunch of people. So, yes, some people might find someone more attractive.

So let's just say she is on the lower of attractiveness as it would be determined for like a psychological study, let's just say. Fine, right. Lots of unattractive people, let's take a word for it. Lots of unattractive people are in very healthy, normal, nice relationships. Yes. Yes, exactly. So I don't, I think you have to kind of disconnect those two thought patterns and really figure out what, what are you looking for? So like all these people that you're

crushing on, are you looking for the right things in these people? And that they're not, that these crushes are unrequited? Are you crushing on people because they're super attractive, good looking, cool, you know, or are you crushing on people because you're really having like a connection with them, which I think might lead her towards more, you know, like deeper relationships like what you're saying, based less on physical attraction. Maybe she's the shallow one. Yeah. That's perhaps.

So I don't know if this, like we don't know because we don't know, you know, you know, if this is true that she's on the less attractive side here. But this might just be in her head, her looking for a reason why this hasn't. clicked by now. And I think, again, she's pretty young. I think there is sort of this, it's like a comparisons thing that happens. And even society, like TV shows, I always think about, I never had any romance in high school whatsoever. But all these TV shows, you said you neither? Me neither, yeah. Yeah. Every show that you watch, and my kids watch these shows, which I don't love, but like they're all about like high school kids dating each other.

And yes, there's like a group of kids in high school that date and everybody notices those kids. But I don't think that that's the majority of people are like having long term relationships in high school. I think the majority of people are like kind of like this listener who are like having crushes on people and like generally hanging out with their friends and not getting a ton of. you know, there's probably like five girls in every grade who everyone wants to date. And the rest of us are just, we're just having crushes on the guys who are pursuing those girls. If you're heterosexual. Exactly. And all the boys are too insecure to go after anyone except for the five, like, acceptable options. Girls same. There's like, you know, five to ten acceptable options. Other than that, you're not willing to risk what other people would say.

if you were to go for somebody that's, you know, not in the cool crowd. So I don't think people are dating as much in high school in that way as society makes it seem like they are. But okay, so she's 26 and she's never had a boyfriend. Almost 27, Naomi. Okay. Well, that's important. I think that she's within the realm of normalcy. I think that she probably, you know, is getting in her head about this, which I understand. I don't think it's abnormal. The fact that she's looking for like what's wrong with her in terms of I'm not attractive enough, I think that that's just going to create like a narrative in her mind that's not going to lead her in a positive direction for herself. I mean, she does have lots of good friends, which is amazing.

She, I'm sure like she's saying, has a wonderful personality. It may be a matter of who she's finding herself attracted to. Right. Yeah, I think that's a good thing to reflect on is like, Again, am I, my awesome, am I attracted to, because I agree the fact that she's kind of leaning on the superficial attractiveness as the reason for not being able to date means that's what she's looking for also in dating. So it might do her well to think about dating in a different way, to think about dating and like, who do I feel like is really, maybe I should be pursuing people who are really caring or people who are really down to earth or people who are really generous, which I think also comes with age. In terms of the fact that she's never been in a relationship, I can say

from hosting the U-W podcast, we get emails like this all the time. So many people have never been in a relationship for at this point in their lives. I know people personally who weren't in a relationship had never been in one at that point in our lives. And I know many people who married the first person that they got into a serious relationship with that they got into a relationship with later in life. I do not think that there's anything wrong with that person by any means. But I agree. Like the story with you, the story she's telling herself about this, that it makes her this like outcast, that's the issue with it. It's just what she's telling herself, which probably leads her to be less confident that she would be otherwise. I agree with that. I think this is very common.

And I think it's common that a lot of people worry about this and you kind of put yourself in this box of someone who's never been in a relationship or incapable of relationship or unlovable in some way. or incapable of making a connection. And yeah, I do think that it is very possible to meet someone in, you know, later on in life and just have it click and have that be your person. Or maybe we take the timeline out of it. Maybe you date someone in your late 20s for two, three years or a year. Maybe you date someone in your early 30s for a couple years.

And then maybe you find your person down the road. So I think something that's going to be important for this person. And it's funny how she gives that tell of like I'm 26, almost 20. like the timeline is in her mindset. So I think part of her intention can be letting go of what she should be doing and what should be happening at different points in her life instead of looking for this reason, this cause, especially a reason or a cause that is something that she feels very stuck in, that she can't change, like the way that her actual face looks or whatever it is that she's insecure about. So I think an intention for her that might be helpful is I trust in my journey

or I'm right where I should be or I intend to focus on my life as it is now. Something that's keeping her focused on the idea that her current life is just where it needs to be and that she does not need to be in a different place. So I think all these, I don't think she, it sounds like she wouldn't be thinking about her self, her physical appearance in a negative way. If it wasn't for this, I haven't been in a relationship thing. So it's like swirling up all this, you know, just like pulling in a bunch of crap that doesn't need to be there. Another thing is if she is independently feeling insecure about her appearance, I think that's something that she can, the same way I'm asking her to look for those things in other people, to look for

the beauty in herself, you know? Like, I always tell people that are struggling with insecurity and this is, you know, an experiment anybody can do is just stand up in front of the mirror and look at yourself, a full-length mirror. What's the first thing your eyes go to? For a lot of people, the first place their eyes go are the thing that they like the least about themselves. They're going to look at the pimple on their cheek.

They're going to look at the frizz in the top of their hair. they're going to look at the, you know, part of their body that they don't like. So you have to kind of train your brain to undo that. And when you look at yourself in the mirror, look at your favorite feature, you know, notice the things that you do love most about yourself. So another intention for her could be, I intend to seek out my own beauty and beauty and others. And by beauty, I don't necessarily just mean external. So I think something that might be beneficial for her is to really seek out what it is that she's looking to find, which I think is connection and, you know, intimacy with another person. I think she's on the right track. She talks about having good friends

and, you know, feeling like she has a good personality. I mean, that's the stuff. So just staying focused on seeking out your own beauty and seeking out that deep beauty in other people that she can connect on that level with. Right. Because then, maybe she'll be focused on the right better matches for her, the right kinds of people, or someone's going to actually give her a sustained long-term relationship if that's what she's looking for. Right. And I think sometimes, and this is probably a topic for another time, but maybe the idea that

are you paying attention to the people that are paying attention to you. Right. You know, like a lot of times we're seeking out like the guy that you have the crush on that's a little bit at a distance instead of maybe there might be. really great guys that are paying attention to you and you're not paying attention to them. I'm a believer. You have to be physically attracted to somebody in order to make a long-term relationship work on some level. But that physical attraction, sometimes you might miss it if you're not looking. Like if a guy, you know, there's a guy that's interested in you and he's a little bit

overweight. Like, look deeper. You know, maybe he's really funny. Maybe he has beautiful eyes. Maybe he's, there's something about him that you can lean into instead of maybe she's writing people off too quickly based on like a general physical characteristic. That's a very good point. Stop being so shallow. That's my intention. It's all your fault. No, it's not just going.

It's definitely not. I get this. This is very common. So I will say that. Like you said, you get it on you up. I get it in my office all the time. People that sort of create this identity around never, not being in a relationship by their, you know, mid to late 20s and what that means about them

or kind of using the evidence to put themselves in a box. Like, well, I've never done it before. There must be something wrong with me. Let me figure out what it is. Dig into all my insecurities. That's never going to lead to anything good. Yeah. Being more attractive doesn't really necessarily help any dating scenario at all. It really just gives you, because there's, here's the other thing is there's always someone more attractive than you. Yes. So that's a very, it's a tough one to pride yourself on entirely. Yes. There's always going to be someone out there that's going to be, and that's the other thing is like the comparing. There's always going to be someone out there that's more everything than you. Smarter, funnier, prettier, more successful, whatever it is.

So she says, my goal is to believe in a more healthy narrative. about why I've never been in a relationship and become more confident about myself overall, especially regarding how I look. So I think your intention to seek out your beauty, I also think that your intention to be patient with yourself. There's no rush. There's no reason to believe

just because you haven't clicked with somebody means you'll never click with somebody. It's just not true. It's not a thing. Right. Patience. When you have these intentions, What are you supposed to do with them once you have them?

Good question. I think it's really, we talk about mindfulness, moments of mindfulness. So anytime you can stop yourself, like when you notice yourself getting that physical activation, I'm getting upset, right? How are you? I'm upset. Or, you know, anytime you notice your body getting tense, you notice that spiraling thought process, like, just like going in the rabbit hole of,

of thinking and swirling, that's your moment to tell yourself, stop. What is my intention? Or anytime you're trying to make a decision and you don't know how to proceed, what is my intention? You can also do it just first thing in the morning or last thing at night or during a meditation session if you're going to practice meditation. So it's basically just a moment for you to stop when you're getting stuck in your head. and there's all these thoughts to kind of be like, okay, there's all these thoughts, which is the one

that I want to follow in my clear mind that I've discussed, that I've gotten from Dr. Naomi and Jordana, or that I've gotten from my therapist or that I've done some work on, I want to have patience in my journey. That's the intention that she gets out of this. Every time she starts swirling about her looks or every time she starts swirling about the guy that didn't like her. her age. Pause. I intend to have patience in my journey. And that's going to stop her from running down the rabbit hole of thoughts about where she should be what's wrong with her that

she's not. I don't even think she needs to be thinking about what's wrong with her that she's not at this point. Yeah. I agree. It's not as crazy as she thinks it is. Maybe you're 45 and you've never had like a significant relationship, it's worth looking into. Why have I never been able to connect with somebody? But at this stage, high school and college, a lot of people, you don't, I don't blame people for not wanting to really pursue because people are very, you know, in selfish mode in college. And the guys, a lot of times not to be stereotypical, but they're not really going to know how to treat a woman or want to commit or be monogamous. And I can understand wanting to stay out of it for that whole thing or not really wanting to go there. And then you have a few

years after college, you're figuring out who you are. There's nothing wrong with, I think it's a great path to take. So be proud of your path. Be proud that you haven't spent two years like with the wrong person just to find out they're the wrong person and then have to come out and start over. Your path is just as great as all your friends who've been in four relationships already by the time they're 26. Right. Absolutely nothing abnormal about it. And again, at the end of the day, no one looks back and they're like, I wish I had gotten into this long-term forever relationship earlier. I did all, like, everyone's path takes them to exactly where they need to be.

And obviously, like, it's hard to see that when you're in it. But again, if you zoom out and you think if I met my person at 29 versus 22, is that going to have made a big difference in my life? Probably not. Right. A hundred percent, especially at that age. I mean, by the time this recording comes out, Jeff and I will have celebrated our 14th wedding anniversary. Which there's not a moment where I think to myself, if I only, if we only had two extra years, this would be so much better.

You know, if I only would have met him at this age or that age, no, you know, you're going to be fine. Trust my journey is just as it should be. I would even, you know, if you want to do the intention on seeing your beauty, I think that would be helpful. But I would, I think this is more about a timeline and a comparison thing than really about how you look. So come back to that intention to trust your journey. You're right where you should be. Should we do an overshare, you know? Yeah, let's do it.

Okay, why don't you read this one? Hey, friends. Love, love, love the pod, but I'll get right to. it. What do you do about small, infrequently recurring differences in opinion that start to become triggers? My example is sober January. My husband asked me to do it every year and pretty much every year I tell him, I'm not interested. A little background. We have very different styles of drinking. He basically doesn't drink at all and then we'll go out and get drunk. F. Why I, this happens infrequently. He is safe and respectful so it's not a bigger issue at play. Whereas I usually

don't get drunk, but I have one to two drinks regularly, like a glass of wine with dinner. I just have no desire to stop completely for any length of time. And if I'm being honest, I have other vices I'd rather try to kick. I've told him this and I've told him, if anything, I'd prefer him practice having one here and one there with me. I could give him because it's clearly important to him, but then I'd end up having to do it every year. And I don't really get the gesture in return because drink moderately March isn't a thing. He's already bringing it up. and the holidays haven't even started. This year, it's a particularly annoying request

because we just had a baby, so I was sober for nine months. We plan to have another baby in the not too distant future. And our baby has a million allergies, so I've been on a very restrictive diet while breastfeeding. If nothing else, I'm glad I got to vet via email, but why won't he give this up? How do I set a boundary here without belittling what he wants to do?

Sincerely, restricted, and grumpy. This one's funny. Yeah. It's like, let's stop drinking. It's like, oh, why don't you stop drinking? Right. That's what it, it sounds like it's the let's stop drinking, but it's more like you, let's have you stop drinking.

Right. Which is a tough thing to say to someone. I get that. Right. You know, it's interesting. He must have, if he's not drinking frequently, this is about her. He just like doesn't like her drinking for some reason. Oh, you think it's about her?

Yeah, because, I mean, she said, at first I was thinking, well, maybe he can't control. himself. So he wants her to stop so that he's not tempted and then it can help him stop. But then she writes basically, he basically doesn't drink at all. Then we'll go out, FY, this happens. Infrequently, he is safe and respectful. So it's not a bigger issue at play. So she makes it very clear that like he doesn't drink often. He's safe and respectful. It's not really about his drinking. I think maybe he has an issue with her drinking. I kind of disagree. I think it is about his drinking because someone could also be like a good drunk and then still feel bad the next day or still feel like kind of hungover or like kind of like lethargic and feel like you don't have

to be like ruining your life to feel to wake up after a night of drinking and be like, I don't know why I keep doing this. I feel like gross because I drink too much. Yeah, I guess that's true. I mean, she doesn't seem to have a problem with his drinking at all. And yeah, maybe he is triggered by her drinking. Like maybe if she's drinking one to two every night, and he's kind of like, oh, that looks nice. But for him and for some people, and this is a difference in drinking style, some people just can't turn it. Like when the switch is flipped, the switch is flipped. There's no point for them to have one drink or two. Yes. Yeah. So I get it. I think ultimately. they have to accept each other's. He has to accept that she can have one or two.

Yeah. And he can't. Sounds like he's a very all or nothing guy. So he's like either we're all not drinking or we're all getting drunk. Or I guess he's allowed her, he's been okay with her having one or two drinks. But I could see it almost like if you change this to dieting. Right.

Where she was like, oh, I feel like I'm pretty healthy. Let's say she was like, my husband wants us. to go on a diet, go to the gym every day in January. I go to the gym like a couple days a week and I'm happy with that. But he goes, you know, he goes for like weeks at a time and then doesn't go for months at a time. And he wants us to do this. I think it's kind of like he feels like he's more likely to do it if she does it with him and it's like their shared goal than if he's just out there on his own. So maybe it's a support thing. Right. What she can do without doing it with him.

Right. I think that she should discuss with him because even if she did do sober January, right? February 1st is going to come and she's going to go back to doing what she's doing. Like if she's not really, she doesn't think she has a problem. She's not really trying to stop. Sober January is like kind of pointless for someone that's not really trying to make a change if she's just going to do it for him. I think the big. picture is that she needs to talk to him and ask him, are you asking me to do this because you find it hard to resist the temptation when I'm drinking? Is that the issue? If that's the issue, then maybe she would support him and say, you know what, I'll have my wine on the nights when you're

not home or I'll go out with my friends. Yeah. If I want to have a couple glasses of wine, I'll go out with my friends and I want to support you if this is something that makes it hard for you to drink in moderation or to, you know, you feel like every time I'm drinking, it's like upsetting to you for some reason. And maybe that there is another issue that he's not expressing to her about maybe she thinks she's totally fine when she's drinking, but maybe she's, her personality changes and he doesn't like it. Or maybe there's something about her one to two drinks that's bothering. I think this just calls for a deeper conversation between the two of them of why he keeps pushing this, the real reason about why.

he keeps pushing this. Right. Because the simple answer is, you do you, let him do him. If he doesn't have a problem with your one to two glasses and you don't really have a problem, it sounds like with his getting drunk every once in a blue moon, then do your own thing. But it sounds like maybe they do have issues with each other's drinking, but they're not addressing them directly. Right.

And assuming they don't, I think if she said to him, listen, love this for you. love that you're trying to do sober January. Happy to help you in whatever way support you need for me, but it's not going to include we're two different people. That's not a goal of mine. I understand the goal of yours. Let me know how I can best help you. I'm not interested in doing that too.

Exactly. I think that's great. And it is hard because different people have like, you know, even like you said with food or sugar, or, you know, carbs or smoking or whatever it is, different people have different relationships with those, quote unquote, substances. So some people can, you know, have a couple of bites of pasta and be like, okay, that was delicious. I'm glad I tasted that. And some people will eat like the entire tray of pasta if they start having pasta. So everyone has different relationships with these substances. And just because

he can't control himself doesn't mean that you have to adopt his ways. But I do think you do have to be supportive if he's going to be willing to open up about why he keeps bringing this up. So yeah, I agree. In my head, I just came up with the perfect solution for them. She says, not doing sober January. When I get pregnant with the second baby, we'll do a nine month, no drinking. Just the two of us were committed.

Yes. And, you know, this is a great idea. We're going to save it. And it's going to be... Love that. I love that. It is true. I wonder how you would respond to that.

If it's kind of like, okay. Right. That seems like the perfect opportunity. You're going to do one month. Why not nine? Yeah. But yeah. I'm curious to hear how this goes.

If you guys do bring it up on a... Like the whole sober January thing seems like a way to keep this conversation light when it seems like it needs to be a bigger conversation. Right. And I think maybe he has worse. feelings about his drinking than he's telling you. And so that would probably help you understand it. Because I do think you don't have to be like a terrible, horrible drunk to feel like there's so many people, like there's a whole sober curious like movement who are just like,

I don't know if I like want to be doing this anymore. Right. So. Oh, that's interesting. Sober curious. I never heard that. Yeah. It's basically like when you're sober, not because you have an issue, but just because you're like, maybe I don't need this. And like you're, which I think is great because you're just like reexamining why you, anything that makes you think intentionally and thoughtfully about why you're doing something, I think is, it's good to have. Totally.

I mean, I think all the time. And again, this is another conversation for another day, which I would love to have about like the drinking culture in general. And I don't know if you're the best person to be having this conversation with because, What? Just because, you know, betches or party girls and the whole thing.

We do have an alcoholic canned cocktail faux pot. You can get it in 16 states as of now. Sorry. But just the cult, like, and it all starts, I feel like, kind of in college, where it's just this accepted thing that four out of seven days a week, you're probably going to be getting really, really drunk. Three to four days a week. That's just how it is.

That's just like. it is and you are supposed to be getting this education, but you're also kind of like creating this pattern of binge drinking that lasts for four years. And then every single weekend, Friday and probably Saturday night for another several years after that, you're just going to be drinking not in moderation. It just seems like unhealthy. And it's just sort of this very accepted unhealthy behavior that is part of even. Even as an adult, a lot of parents kind of bond on like drinking or there's a lot of like bonding that goes on or like social interactions that are very involved with alcohol and overconsuming

alcohol. So it's an interesting conversation for another time about how alcohol is accepted into society. And for a lot of people, like you're saying, the sober, curious people, starting to realize like, hey, this isn't bringing out the best version of myself, really. Right. And I've, I mean, I haven't shared as much of that with you, but I've definitely examined my drinking, especially, you know, when being in a relationship or getting older or entering my 30s, it was something, you know, I'm kind of like the only, like you said, the only example I had for how, how to drink was like this college age thing where we were drink, you know, just drink until you're drunk. That was the goal. And maybe like the more negative experiences you have with alcohol, you're kind of like, okay, that was how it was done. just because that was how I did drink doesn't mean that's how I need to keep drinking. Right. I can use it. I can use.

And again, I'm not saying good or bad. I think anything in moderation, if you can handle it or you have a fun time with it is fine. I think it's more just like how, what is my relationship like with it? Can we change it for a different setting? How can it be used to that I can get the most out of it,

not just doing what I'm doing? So I think thinking critically about it is a very good thing, no matter what conclusion you come to. And I think just. for the basis of our purposes, a lot of it starts off alcohol to like, you know, for self-esteem or for people that are insecure. You socially, you know, like it starts off as like a social kind of buffer to be able to socialize without feeling anxious or insecure or to be able to approach somebody that you're

interested in romantically a little bit easier or there's all these self-esteem issues that I think play into over drinking. So once you feel better about yourself and you feel more confident to be out in a social situation without needing to be drunk, like even she says, oh, the other, the other listener was saying about like that she's, you know, been drunk most of the time that she's like hooked up with boys or whatever it is. So, you know, I think that it's just something interesting to look at, your relationship with alcohol, why you drink it, what your intentions are for that, for her and her husband. And if they can have that, you. conversation. I think this will be much more productive than like, do we do sober January or not.

It's not about it. I agree. All right, let's do a betcha cyst. You ready? Sure. Okay, I'll read it. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Thank you for your ongoing thoughtful conversations and sharing openly of yourselves. Here's my current dilemma. My husband, newly married six months ago and I are going to road trip to Miami for three months with our dog during winter. This is something he has dreamt of as he suffers seriously with seasonal depression and we are in the northern part of the country. I'm happy to support him on this trip, although I'm the one putting my career at risk, self-employed. Sounds like she's very happy to support him. Self-employed, and while I can do some work remotely, most of my clients are in my home city. I don't love hot weather, and we are using my

vehicle and relying heavily on my savings to make it all a reality. He will maintain his salary job, which is great, but the safety net, while shared by marriage, is 90% a result of my savings. We communicate pretty well, but I've been budding heads recently about his acknowledgement of my feelings being different than his around this trip. He seems so blinded by making this trip happen that he rarely asks how I'm feeling about it, even though I tell him from time to time my worries about the work I'm leaving, family I care for that won't be present for that time, and the insecurity around where we're going to live there. It's about three times our rent at home. Maybe I'm dumb for not knowing Miami was so expensive, but wow, we, I was surprised. All of these issues in living situations have arisen since we started hunting for a three-month rental, and I've come to realize he did zero research before we committed to this and sublet our place, and it's catching up to us, most leases being minimum six months, monthly fees being super high,

and usually only small dogs allowed. Recently, we found a place that seemed to have it all. Good price, good location, allows pets, we'll rent for three months, etc. Then it came up that they only allow service dogs, to which my husband told them we have a certificate for. This is a straight-up lie. It's caused a huge bite because I'm saying I'm not comfortable lying about that for three months, risking the person who's renting to us his trust, and I just want to find a place that's okay with our dog.

He insists we can get an emotional support certificate, and then our dog will simply be an emotional service dog. My issue is with his so-called solution, and he will not hear out my concerns and discomfort in living with this lie. And also, I find it unethical and just not right to do when so many rely on these animals. wondering how do I get him to hear me out and acknowledge my concerns are valid or if I'm the nuts-so person for not feeling at all good about this loophole and jumping at the apartment. Thanks for everything, a morally devoted and seemingly irrational betch. Okay. I don't think this is about the dog.

I was going to say, that was my, it's like, well, it's like two paragraphs about how resentful she feels about this whole entire trip that she definitely does not want to do. Right. And then like the last thing about the dog. Totally agree with you. Yeah. This is not about the dog. That's a way for you to procrastinate not doing this or doing this, which you don't want to do. This is a perfect like couples thing where they could spend forever arguing about this dog thing when the bigger issue is that she doesn't really want to do this. I think she feels resentful that it's kind of coming out of her savings and that,

you know, she talks a lot about her car, her savings, you know, that she's not really getting much out of this. And this is just going to have to be a compromise situation where it's, you know, the dog issue is irrelevant in my mind. I think she's going to find something wrong with this, whichever way it goes. So I get it's like a betches this thing. Like should you lie to get the emotional support dog thing? Yeah, no, that's not the right thing to do. To me, that doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Yeah. I feel like it's kind of like people can get certificates who don't really need them and I'm sure a lot of people do and I don't think you're taking it away

from someone who has an emotion to me and again maybe I'm a little more relaxed with the morals but let's say it was just about that I would be like she's being a little annoying right well it's also look I mean she's saying he does

have seasonal depression so like his needs to like not be depressed for three months or whatever it is would probably trump the needs of the, you know, whatever she's saying. Like, there's some of the people that do, right, that do rely on these animals and it's kind of like not fair to the people who really, you're not taking anything away from them. So yeah, I agree.

I guess the bigger issue is, and this is something that's huge in relationships. I mean, this is a three-month thing, so it's less of a big deal than someone that's like, I want to move to Miami. Well, I don't. Right. What do you do with that? Yeah, I mean, it sounds like she's agreed to do it and just be extremely resentful, which doesn't sound like that's how it should be done. Yes.

Anyway, like, it's kind of, I kind of feel like if you're going to be that resentful about the whole thing and look at it as like, this is mine, this is mine, this is mine. And then it's not going to be a great trip anyway. Yes, totally. This trip is going to be, if she goes into it with this mindset, I can guarantee you that it's not going to be what they want it to be. It's not going to be like a break from him for his depression. It's not going to feel fun for her.

It's not going to be like a nice three-month get away from the cold. I love the idea of it, actually. I think it's cool. We don't need to wait until we retire to be snowbirds. Like let's be snowbirds in our 30s or however old they are. Right. You know, if your job allows for that, then go for it. I like the idea of it.

but if she has this mindset going into it, even if this place tomorrow contacted her and said, you know what, it's okay, bring your dog. She would go and she would find something there that wasn't right or good or she missed her family or she would harp on not making enough. She's going to find the negative

because that's the mindset that she's in. And if I were her, I would take a pause for a second and say to her husband, which it sounds like she's like truly feeling is like, I'm getting a little anxious about this trip. Here's the reasons. I feel like it's going to be a lot of money.

I didn't realize it was going to be so expensive. I am worried about missing my family. I'm worried about, you don't have to say, you don't have to necessarily immediately present a solution. But you can just tell the person how you feel and then maybe you can work out the solution together. Yes. I agree.

I think she needs to communicate that this, and I think a lot of times that's what happens in relationships is like one person is anxious about a move or a big decision or whatever it is, so they just aren't ready to do it. And instead of leaning on your partner to help support you through the anxiety, you use it to create like a just put up a logistical wall. And, you know, even when it comes to like getting married, or having a baby or, you know, moving in general, a lot of times people will talk about the logistical pieces when what the bigger issue is, is I'm anxious about this big move in our life, or I'm anxious about the financial situation,

or I'm anxious about becoming a parent, or I'm anxious about committing, or whatever it is. We have to talk about the real thing instead of talking about the details. So I could see why she's anxious. She's going to burn through her savings, it sounds like. The rent is very expensive. Figure out which of these things are the real issue and then talk about it instead of, you know.

And listen, you're allowed to change your mind. So you can say, listen, I know we said we were going to do this three months into Miami. I really want to help you with your like seasonal depression. I would love to figure out a way to do it that is maybe like less costly or is maybe shorter. maybe we could do, this year we could just do like two weeks, take a like a vacation, do an Airbnb and see how we feel. Like I'm just, I know I said that. I'm sorry. I'd love to support you in other ways. Like we can figure it out because that's laying it out instead of just, I think you think like I'm just going to eat it and do the thing. And I've done this where I've been like, at first I've been very gung ho on an idea. And then I'm like, oh, this is actually causing me a massive amount of anxiety. Let me like, you can change your mind. Yeah. Like we're. just because you say yes, and you can apologize for changing your mind. If the other person, you know, got excited about it, it can be a letdown. But it's better to do that than to just keep doing the thing because you've already said

you were going to do it and then just be very unpleasant the rest of the time. I love that advice. I think it's great. You are entitled to change your mind and you have to have a conversation about it. And I think you're spot on. the idea that she's going to go and be negative and resentful, she might as well not go. If you can't go with like an open heart and an excited spirit, then you have no other choice, but to bring it up and see if you can come up with some kind of other compromise.

It's okay to change your mind. It's okay to say, look, we've got to reevaluate. I'm not feeling good about this. Yeah. Solve that one. Let us know how that one goes. I kind of want to know. I love updates.

If any of you guys out there have any updates, if we've answered your question and you want to let us know how everything transpired. I would love to hear it. Should we do some triggered? Yeah. Let's do some triggered. Jay and Dr. N. Recently, I was out to dinner with three friends when one asked the other about a man she

kept referring to who was not her husband. The response included details about an affair she had with a married man that extended many years, including when his two children were born. She explained that her husband found out when the psycho, wife called him. I couldn't contain my reaction. My now ex-husband of 18 years had an affair, and I called her husband when I discovered it. While I knew that my friend had an affair, I did not know many of the details, including it was with a married man, and to hear the wife being referred to as psycho for rotting them out sent me into a tailspin. I was then told by a mutual

friend at the table that she would never call the other spouse of her husband cheated on her. She also defended our mutual friend's cheating behavior. While I accepted, my marriage is over, this conversation triggered so many feelings. How could a friend judge me for reacting the way I did? We then argued over whether or not a person is responsible to themselves for being honest and having integrity in difficult situations, such as not lying or cheating when married. Now I question whether or not I can continue to be friends with this group. How can you respect people who don't respect themselves, their husbands and their families? I also struggle with respecting my now ex-husband who lied to and cheated on me.

We should be co-parenting our three sons and I don't trust or respect him. While I know his behavior was not me, does it matter that I don't have any respect for him? Thanks for your advice, sincerely triggered by cheaters. It's so interesting. The last episode, this is like the opposite. Yeah, maybe they were at the same dinner, right? Right. I was thinking that's two people writing in from the same dinner.

That's funny. That is really funny. And it's just funny to see the way that like the same situation can trigger, you know, hot. It's a very, this is obviously a very heated emotional conversation and people have very mixed feelings about this kind of thing. I could totally understand why that would be triggering, especially if someone was talking shit about someone who's the exact same thing that I had done when she says she called

the ex-wife. Yes. So I think this is definitely rated. pretty highly. And I think especially if you're cheated on, there is a thing that I've seen maybe mostly in pop culture and personally through people I know, where if you have been cheated on and someone is a cheating defender in any way, it becomes very infuriating, which I can understand. Right. Yeah, I think this is really triggering. Like, especially the part that stood out to me was like the psycho wife. So it's sort of like, and I've seen this happen a lot, where it's almost

like somebody does something and drives a person to the brink of insanity, to psycho behavior, and then that all that's left, when all the dust settles after everything, is that this person typically female is psycho. Right. Like gaslighting. Yes.

When there was so much that led up to her behavior, but then it's like that's, the moral of the story is my ex-girlfriend was psycho. It's like, no. You kind of really did a bunch of stuff to make her pretty crazy until she lost her mind. And then you're like, whoa, you're psycho. I'm out of here. Yeah.

On your second hinge date, you're like, oh, yeah, I broke up with my ex-girlfriend because she, like, was banging on my door at 3 o'clock in the morning and sent me 20 texts in a row like she was psycho. It's like, hmm, why was she doing that? Right. Ask yourself. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I can see, again, I've already said a week. I would rank this like a nine. Clearly it's about more than just this conversation.

And she says that herself. Like I'm still, I'm not only really angry at this group of friends, but I'm also angry at my ex-husband. I know I have to raise these three kids with him. So I don't know. Can she still be friends with these people? I could see that being a conversation

where you might want to take a little bit of a break. I don't know if she voiced in this, in this discussion, like, what happened to her? What happened to her? because that might garner some people to think differently about a situation if they're open-minded. And obviously, everyone, you know, everyone looks at a situation first and foremost through their own lens, through their own ego. So the person who's having the affair, maybe still currently, is clearly maybe not in a place to be like thinking about the other woman.

Right. Right. Yeah. I, you know, I almost wish that she, she was triggered. I get that she was triggered. I probably wouldn't have gone. well because I'm sure she was like very physically activated at the time of this dinner. But I do think it would be great for her to say, I was on the other side of this. I was the psycho, quote unquote, psycho wife. So I just, I would love an opportunity to tell you what that felt like from my perspective. If she could ever have that conversation with, I think she probably has to have that conversation before she can be friends with these people again.

Yeah. In a real way. I agree. Maybe give it a minute. Yeah. When you feel like you've like fully like a week or however long that is, I think you can call maybe individually again because I think these conversations are hard in groups when people feel like so, you know,

and then they're kind of riding off the other person's agreement with them. But if you spoke to them one on one and you were like, listen. And man, maybe she also is kind of judging her friend for making that same for cheating too, which is another possibility. That might be another reason. She might say, oh, like you're morally a different person than I thought you were. And if that's a conclusion she wants to make and she doesn't feel like their values line, that's one thing.

If she feels like it can be salvaged and it's worth explaining herself to them, I think your idea is great. Totally. Yeah, if the friendship is worth, if you think you can salvage it, if you think it's worth salvaging, then I would definitely say, you know, I was just thinking about that dinner that we had and this conversation. and, you know, I was on the other side of that and this is how I felt and it was pretty triggering for me to have that conversation with you. And yeah, I think she kind of has to get this out because I'm sure this is not the only, if they're speaking so openly about this and saying like how crazy it was for the psycho ex-wife to call her husband, then that's probably going to come up again at some point.

Right. And if these are your real friends, my other thing, it's like if these are truly your friends, I would imagine they would kind of know to an extent about like what you had gone through and how that might affect you and how that conversation might feel to you. Like this reads to me like superficial friendship. Yes. Because if I had a friend whose husband left her and cheated on her with three kids, they were married for 18 years, I certainly wouldn't be like getting into this conversation. If I didn't have, if I had views that were opposing to maybe like the standard, what she might

think, I certainly wouldn't be engaging in them. in front of her. Yes, totally. So yeah, I think at this stage in your life, you're probably, I mean, if you've been married for 18 years, you're probably not at a point where you need to just have like a bunch of random friends around, especially ones that are triggering you. So if you can't go there with them and let them know what you've been through, then it's probably not worth maintaining the friendship. And as far as the ex-husband, you know, I don't think most of the time it's not worth trying to heal that relationship on like a deeper level. I mean, if they could, that's a fantasy. That would be amazing if she wanted to sit down with him and like give him an opportunity to

apologize or acknowledge. I don't know that that's realistic. I think you just have to have respect for your sons and co-parent with their best interest in mind. I don't know that you need to necessarily, you know, respect your ex-husband's decisions, which is the beauty of not being married to him anymore. That's true. Okay, let's do one more. All right. Let's do it. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I first, I just wanted to say I love your new podcast. I feel like I can relate to Jordana's experiences of dating anxiety. So I've been a listener of you up for years. I'm happy to say I've been really happy in my current relationship of a year and a half. So it's been fun to listen to oversharing with episodes that are more about relationships than dating. But I'm still a loyal listener of

you up. Don't worry. Appreciate it. I'm not sure if this would be triggered or another topic, but the other day I was having a bad morning and I was hanging out with my boyfriend. I wasn't in the best mood from a bad night of sleep and I could tell I was being short with him but couldn't help my tone. And he met me back with a what's wrong with you response. I did apologize a few minutes later

and he cracked a joke to break the silence and everything was fine. Normally I'm a pretty positive and caring person and I struggle with anxiety. I would describe myself as someone who doesn't get angry but gets irritable when anxious or upset and I historically try to avoid conflicts when possible. I guess I felt triggered because I felt like I wasn't allowed to have a moment of frustration.

I feel like this stems from my childhood where one of my siblings was always the one to have tantrums, meltdowns, meltdowns, and fights with my parents while I would normally try to talk it out or talk about it. Or if I was upset, I would go be alone and eventually get over it. Today, when I do express my frustration in a tone or I get irritated and slip and say something mean, I feel like I get called out for acting out of character. I guess it triggers me when people who are usually more reactive. than me, call me out when I let my anxiety get the best of me. And I react with frustration

before I respond and can express myself calmly. Can I be triggered by this? Thanks for all you do. Somewhat sassy bitch. I see her perspective. I get the idea of like one person just gets to kind of spew all over the place. And then it's normalized. Yes. And it's kind of normalized and they don't get called out. And because you're typically calm and collected that any little bits of frustration are so upsetting to everyone around you. So I totally get that. I think I can personally relate to that. Like I'm usually pretty even tempered.

So when I'm not, it's kind of like everyone's like, whoa, what just blew in here? You know, like everyone notices it. Does that annoy you? Do you wish that you could like not have it be as big of a thing if you were to get irritated? Yeah, I do and I don't.

I do. But sometimes I don't mind the, reminder of like, and that's what I was going to say to this listener, I don't mind the reminder of like something's up with you. Why don't you go like handle that instead of spewing it out? You know, like sometimes you almost, you're so in it that you don't, it's like a moment of mindfulness, I think for me when someone could be like, oh, are you like, you're in a bad mood. It's kind of like, oh, wait, yeah. I kind of am in a bad mood. Like what, what's a, Why? What am I feeling? Like come back to my, that whole thing of like, come back to my body. Where do I feel it? What's upsetting me? Let me like check myself. So I don't mind that because I like to find those moments of mindfulness. But yes, there have been times when I do sort of feel like, well, everybody else gets to do like 10 times worse.

Right. Than me just like making a little bit of a being a little short. Can I get a moment? Yes. Yes. I have, I'm entitled to a moment too. But I think the big picture is nobody should really be tolerated to be spewing their negativity all over the place. He shouldn't and you shouldn't. If you're a little short and what might be nice is if he was like, oh, are you okay? You see him off. And you can not what's wrong with you. Yeah.

Right. That's an annoying phrase. Totally. So I could see her saying like, you know what, sometimes I do get irritable and a better way to address it would be, you know, to just ask me if I'm okay or what's going on. You seem a little off. And then she could say, yeah, I didn't sleep well and I just need some time to myself. It's a much better way than like, let's change the protocol so that we all just get to walk around being moody and irritable whenever we want to. Because I don't think that that's like good

vibes in a household. Right. Yeah. Or she could preempt that by saying if she's feeling irritable, She could also say, hey, feeling a little annoyed, I didn't sleep well. And I say this sometimes where I'm like, let's just have like a little silence. Right. Just like, I'm not in the mood to talk about like my day. I'm like, I'm a little annoyed. Right. Because you're aware of like how it's probably going to come off and that you're not going to be like connecting well in that moment.

So I agree. It's much better to just say like, let's have a little silence. I like that expression or I just need a few minutes to myself. I think those are great ways to go about it. But I don't think that the answer is to flip the script the other way to now where you also get to be kind of, you know, I forget the word that she. She had a tone. She said she had a tone. Right.

Yeah, which isn't, it's not terrible, but I don't think it's also like something to make room for. You know, like, I don't think you need to like make room for being kind of rude and short. and I think you can, nobody should be aspiring to that. If you're feeling away, you can just kind of step back, take your time, figure out what's going on with yourself, and then communicate it in a way that's not just coming off as rude and short and having a nasty tone, which it sounds like is what she was doing. I also feel like the beauty of a long-term relationship and the longer you're with someone, the more this is like a thing

is that the more you're with someone, the more you kind of know them. And so it can become a thing where it's like, at a certain point, you're like, I anticipate like what this means for you so they can almost give you space

before you even ask for it is obviously like a different level of it. But it's nice when like, if Mike I can tell if he's like, he's stressed about work, I kind of know now it's not the best time to bring up. like, you know, a trip I want to take or ask him his take on, you know, some decor situation.

Like I now, now having been with him for five years, I have a sense of like, these are the best times to go into these conversations. These are the best times to give him space, close the door, let him, like, not interrupt him. Right. Yeah. And, you know, what's wrong with you is not, like, the best way to approach somebody that you think what he didn't really maybe want to know what was wrong with you, he wanted to kind of be like, I don't like the way you're talking right now. It doesn't feel good. Like, I don't like the tone that you're taking with me. So he could have approached that differently. I could see why it's triggering because she feels like she never gets that. You know, she says other people are usually more reactive. So she wants,

I don't think the solution is that you get to be more reactive. You know, I could see why it's triggering, but I think the best way to handle it is to say, like, when I do get irritable for some reason, I don't feel like it's received well. I'm going to work on trying to handle it and communicate a little bit better, but I also would appreciate this reaction instead of that reaction if I do have a moment. Yeah. She could say because I'm human and I, just like everyone else, I get irritated too. Right. Yeah, I think there needs to be room for her emotions here in this relationship, but I think all parties should be working towards not like spewing their. That's not what loved ones are for. Love ones are not for like being the catching your poisonous words.

Yes. That's not their job. Their job is when you communicate clearly, I didn't sleep well. I feel really tired and irritable. I just need to be alone. Their job is to give you that. Or I just need a hug. or whatever it is that you need, ask for it, and their job is to try to help you get it, whatever it is that you need. Very true. And let's remember that as we all spend time with the families over the holidays, boundaries,

and communication. And communicate clearly. Pause, figure out what it is that you really want and just calmly with calm body, ask for it. instead of picking fights about a million other things that are not the thing that you're really upset about. Right. Great advice. If I do say so, I hope this helps. For any of you guys, just to reiterate for the intentions segment, as the New Year is approaching, if you would like help setting an intention, let us know a little bit of background what's going on, what you

notice your pattern thoughts are, what you notice your patterned fears are. If you, if you You can identify what your big picture beliefs are about yourself or the world and what your goals are for yourself. If you can give us a little bit of information on that, we can help you try to set an intention for the new year coming up. All right. I think that's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Murales Picoe, and Rebecca Salz McCaff McCann. Editing by Missileo Perez.

Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to Oversharing at Betches.com or leave us a voicemail. at 646363-66-6-2-94. Betches.