Oversharing - How To Effectively Sh*t Talk In A Healthy Way

Episode Date: May 9, 2023

Sometimes you just have to cry… on your own podcast. Jordana shares a moment of vulnerability and Dr. Naomi gives her some guidance for channeling that emotion in a positive way. Then a listener writes in to ask if she vents too much about work and family. How do you find a compromise when your decompression style differs from your partner’s? The Betchicist scenario involves talking sh*t about your MIL to your own mother. Why does it feel so good to gossip sometimes, and what should we do when it crosses a line? This week’s intentions are all about trying to establish stronger connections and resolving a fear of abandonment. Finally, they rate some Triggered submissions about a family deception, and stolen decorating tips. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Dredana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. Hello. Hello.

Happy Monday morning. I feel like you have something to tell me. I'm in like a little bit. I want to say a little bit of a mood. I'm in like a big mood. Do you know what I mean? Let's get it. I'm feeling like extremely irritable this morning.

Okay. What happened? I don't, I nothing real. Nothing like it's like a, it's like you know one of those things where I'm not even sure anything actually happened because I feel like under a normal circumstance. None of these things would bother me that much. But for some reason, every little thing is like making me very like angry this morning. And probably it's, I mean, I came back. I went to London with alien.

and Sammy Betches co-bounders this week, which was really fun. But my sleep was like very disrupted. And I came down with like kind of a cold type thing, like a nasally congestant thing. So that was also impacting my sleep. But then I came back to yesterday. And I had like a nine hour sleep last night. But I woke up this morning and I was just like on a little bit of a warpath. Like like I went to go get like my coffee mug.

and it like wasn't where I put it. It was because Mike had like unloaded the, we just moved in like a month ago and I guess he didn't know where I was put it. So he put them back somewhere else and he was still sleeping. And I was just like getting like, I was like seething at something is not a big deal.

And then it was just like one little thing after the next and just like, but I knew that it was not any of those things. But I just, I feel like there's like, I'm like one little hiccup. My internet was like not where I were. working that well. I'm one little hiccup away from like being a very bad version of myself. I feel it coming. It's brewing. All right. So maybe we could use this time a few minutes to just like get you back on track. It's funny because I always do like people like to say like I'm having a

bad day. And a day is a pretty long time. Like you don't have to resign the whole day. You could just kind of be like, I'm having a bad minute or a bad hour even and then kind of try to make the next hour better. But sometimes when you get in your head, like I'm having a bad day, the only solution is wait for the day to be over, go to sleep and start over. But hopefully we can get you to start over sooner than the rest of the day, seeing as it's only the morning. I also do just 10 a.m. Yes, exactly. Not even here. I think there's probably something, maybe even like a dream that you had or like sometimes there's something even if it happened two days ago and you weren't really able to process it maybe because you were traveling or you were with friends. I mean, we don't have

to necessarily dig into it right now. But sometimes I feel like there's these like brewing things that are bigger picture issues that you don't want to address and then the little things end up being the thing that's easier to address. So I don't know if anything comes to mind. But I think it could definitely be that. Well, in my mind, I was like, is it just like the sleep illness, just like not functioning like in my normal routine thing? Or is it this like some unprocessed irritations that I've sort of swept under the rug because I'm traveling and because it's like not an optimal time? I don't know. How do you unpack that? If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably both. I think it's like what's coming up. There's a negative energy that's like filling you up to the chin,

up, up, up, and it's going to, you feel like it's about to come out. And I think most of the time when that happens, it's the perfect storm of some bigger picture, interpersonal, perhaps, you know, existential, like big picture issue that you didn't want to address, then kind of, you know, the lack of sleep on top of it, then having to, you know, wake up first thing in the morning, things are still not in their place. Maybe there's a little, I always hate to say this and I know people don't like it, but like perhaps like a hormonal component, if it's like the time of the month or before or whatever that I always find like I can sort of sense the difference between like an external irritability and an internal irritability

in terms of like, is this like a hormonal chemical irritability or is this really like something that's happening when it feels like exactly what you're describing, which is like this seems like more than what it would have felt like a week of a day. Yeah. Yes, on a different day for sure. And because I got such a full night's sleep last night, I'm like, I should be like back. Right. You know what I mean?

Maybe you slept well and had some, like, did some processing in your dreams that you're remembering. I could see that. I do kind of remember having an unsettling dream, although I don't remember what exactly happened. Yeah. That'll do it. dreams are like your, you know, your body's way of doing the work that you don't clear the way to do when you're conscious. So you get to kind of do this processing when it's like a, it's a crazy cool thing that your psyche is sort of like, we will not rest. You can rest, but we will not rest. And

we're going to process this random, you know, text that you got three days ago that you decided not to really integrate into your mind in that moment, we'll take care of that now while you're sleeping. And you don't have control over when that is. And then poor Mike just has to be in my war path. And I feel bad because I know he's like trying to help me, but everything he's doing is annoying me. Yeah, poor Mike.

All right, well, look, I think ultimately we could take a few deep breaths And just kind of like, you know, watch, watch your body and see where, like, where is this living? Is it in your throat? Is it in your face? Does it feel like tears? Like, kind of like a. Yeah. It feels like it feels like there might be like a tears swelling or like a like an energy that's like stuck in my body that like wants to exit.

And it feels like it's exiting through this like venomous like irritation. Yes. But I'm sure there's a healthier path for it. Should we pause and you just want to have a good cry? Maybe we should pause the recording and just let it flow. And then we can get back to like, it's coming in as like a half tier. Yeah. That energy needs to come out.

And that's what crying does. It just like lets it get released. You could turn off your mind. Just turn off your mind and let it like be in your body. That feels better. Wow. Yeah. You're good.

I think sometimes, honestly, when you're feeling something, our minds jump in and like try to turn it into a thing that's happening in the external world when it's just like energy that needs to be released within yourself, right? But like crying sucks. Nobody really likes to do that. And it also, I think crying feels like I'm there's like I have. to explain why. Right. There must be something really bad happening if I'm crying. And it could just be like 10 million little things.

And then you have to have a cry. Well, it's funny. It kind of feels like crying in theory feels like a loss of control. But it's almost like when you don't do it. That's when you're actually out of control. Yes. Like you can feel like, oh, I'm like surrendering and I like don't have any control. and now I look like I'm like embarrassing myself.

But it's like when you push it down or avoid it, then I'm like just spreading negative energy everywhere I go. Totally. And that's like a worst form of a lack of control. I feel like that's how wars are started. A hundred percent. I couldn't agree more. It's like people not wanting to release their own emotional energy,

just like in a quiet way by themselves because it feels like weakness. Like if all of our world leaders just like had some good cries every now and then, I think the world would be a more peaceful place. It's like you do you want to deny it? So you try it's like what we always talk about. You attach that emotional energy to something on the outside like Mike not putting the cup back where it is. Now you're like snapping at him.

Now he's going to be kind of snappy potentially back at you. and now it's just like feeding this negativity spiral instead of just being like, all right, this lives in me. I need to just like release this and just see it for what it is, which is an overload of emotional energy. I need to open the valve and let it out in like a peaceful way that doesn't involve other people. It doesn't need to involve other people. It's your own feeling. That's so true.

And then there's this other component to it, I think. That's like I felt like I had already like I had a few bad weeks and then I felt like I already processed them and that was like done. And so I'm like it feels like I don't want to go back to the like I don't want to be like crying. I don't want to go back to the emotional part of it because I feel like I already like did that and it feels now less productive. Yes. Or like or it feels like an admittance that like it's that's not like it's still like. there. It's great that you're talking about this because a lot of people feel like that.

Like, I want to be over it. Like, I want to be over it. And if I have to cry about it again, a week later, or a month later, or a year later, somehow I'm interpreting that as like, I'm damaged or I'm not over it or like I'm never going to get over it or, but again, it's like a moment. So you had a moment this morning at, you know, 10, 18 a.m. where you had a wave, of something resurfacing from the past few weeks or whatever it was. And now you can move on instead of like, you know, trying to prove to yourself that you're over something. It's all waves of emotion. Like you could cry about something that happened 20 years ago. It doesn't mean that you're not going to live happily the rest of your life and it's going

to affect you. But I do think people are really afraid of getting swept into maybe like a depression or not being able to function in some way. way or or feel like you're overreacting or something. I don't know. Yes. I think that's another part of it. And I think like our mom's voice in the back of my head being like, it's not so terrible.

It's not so, right. Yeah. Like you're not crying over this. Like you're not crying. Right. It's not like a, you know what I mean? And then I think that sticks with you. It's like you then you tell that to yourself like,

which makes you like, again, feel like it's like a shameful thing. And then it feels more comfortable to express it in like anger. Yes. I think it's a. much more comfy emotion. Protective and it does feel safe and, you know, stronger. But yeah, and I think also for anyone out there, if you have come from a family where there's like a lot of emotions and this probably applies to you and I think maybe to myself to a certain extent, you want to so not be that person that's like succumbing to emotion that you have to

always keep your guard up of like, I don't want to be that, like, overly emotional person who's like not moving on from something. So I'm going to just keep telling myself like, okay, I did that. I cried. I'm over it. Never to return again. But it'll come back. It's just a moment. And hopefully the rest of your day will be a little bit clearer. And maybe you'll have to have another cry at like lunch. Maybe today's just one of those days, you know? And that's okay. Wow. I feel so much better. How much do you charge? You're worth every, I mean, you charge me nothing. Right. And that was great. I wonder, too, if it's sort of like a, you know, when you're homesick at summer camp and then you call and you hear you're fine, but then like you hear your parents' voice and

it's just like you just start crying because it's like a familiar, I'm saying like I'm the mom in this situation and you're the camper. I just missed you so much. Yes. I miss this. Well, no, it's because it can kind of feel like a compartmentalization a lot of the time. And this podcast is very interesting because it's like work, but it's like, I'm talking

to you, my sister. Right. It's like therapy and work at the same time. So it's a very interesting juxtaposition. Right. Yeah. If you're just like stuffed up with emotion and then you see like a comfy pillow, you're like, I just want to put my head in that pillow and, like, cry for a little bit.

Right. And that's why it's nice movies, I feel like sometimes bring that out of you. Yeah. It's a song where you're like, totally. You can go there. He feels like you have more permission because you're like surrounded by that energy. And people don't realize that they crave like a little something that outside of themselves that gives them permission to cry or feel. Like you always hear about those people that like never cry, but they'll cry at like a Hallmark commercial or something where it's like, this isn't a.

about me necessarily so like I can kind of you know put it outside of myself but people do crave that's why sad movies like you know even it's funny because um Lila like she was saying the other day we watched West Side Story did you ever watch the movie yeah the end of it is so sad it's like they they love each it's like a Romeo and Juliet kind of ending like they're just finding each other she thought he was dead he thought she was whatever the thing happened at the end. And then, you know, right before she's about to find him, he gets killed. And it was just like a devastating scene. And she was like, West Side Story is like one of her favorite movies. And I think it's because it like allowed her to feel those feelings, but it was like not about her.

You know, it's like getting the cry out, getting that emotion out, but not having to feel so connected to it. So yeah, crying is super cathartic. I think it's like a gift from God. a way to like connect the mind and body and allow us to physically release emotions without hurting other people by like punching them or screaming at them or you know so um yeah yeah i think that was great what i what i mean it's funny because i'm like okay i'm really not in the mode to do this but it actually i feel like it was perfect for um this episode and what um and the top you know what we do here. Totally.

I think it's going to be a much better episode than you kind of trudging through it and like this, oh, I'm not in the mood for this today. I just want to like walk around and yell at people. Like, that's what I really feel like doing today. Yeah. So it probably wouldn't have been as clear of an episode otherwise. Well, I thank you. And I'm sure everyone that I'm going to be interacting with today, thanks you, even if they

don't, even if they don't know it. Mike, this one's for you. Seriously. I do feel bad because it's like, you know what I mean? You know when someone's just like trying? Yes. But it's just not. And then you feel like even worse because you're like I'm like this like raging bitch.

And I can't. And not only are you irritating me, but I know that I'm wrong. Yeah. So anyway, good episode to listen to if you're feeling that type of way or if you're not in case it comes to you in the future. Should we get into our emails? Yeah. Let's do our emails.

All right. I'm ready to go. I feel fixed. Cleared. All that energy cleared. All right. You could do a Reiki treatment or you can come on here and have a good cry. All right. Let's do it. Okay. Let's do it. If you guys have a voicemail that you want to email us, you can leave one at 646363-6294 or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. All right. I'm going to read our first overshare. Hi, Dr. Noma and Dr. Naomi, my boyfriend of a year and a half and I, Both 29 are moving in together this weekend. I'm so excited, but I'm also a little nervous, of course. We have a wonderful relationship, and he is an amazing boyfriend and partner. I can see just how much we both have learned and grown throughout our relationship, and I know we are both ready for this next chapter. Like many relationships, we have our differences, so I've tried to create a lot of space for us to discuss our excitement and anxieties about moving in together so that we can be open

about how we are both feeling. This has helped us talk through how we're going to carve out space for alone time, time with friends, doing the dishes, etc. Last night, he said he wanted to talk through something that has been making him nervous. He said that we have two different ways of dealing with stress. He would rather relax and not talk about his day in the evening, whereas I get a lot and of talking through multiple aspects of my day. I agreed with this and said it's helpful to know how he wants to unwind, but then he said that I tend to vent a lot about two situations specifically, and it has really been

frustrating him. This really took me aback because it's the first time. I've heard this, and the two situations he referenced are work and my family, which have both had a lot of ups and downs recently. I feel like I'm actively taking steps to create a change in both situations, for example, looking for a new job and setting boundaries with my parents. And most of the time, I feel like I'm talking about new situations that arise from those changes. Him bringing this up honestly made me really upset because I felt like he's been silently resenting me while I have been going through really major situations and trying to work through them.

I understand that it can be draining to listen to your partner, Ben, but I always try to ask if he is in the headspace to listen before I start a conversation. I also thought I had been sparing him by talking to other friends and support systems first and not bringing these things up as often to him. I even told him, sometimes I feel like I need to tell him about these situations so he knows what's going on in my life and less to bring him in for advice. I feel caught off guard that even by doing these things, I'm still venting to the point that it's an issue. I'm glad he could express what he was feeling, but I feel hurt and confused, while wanting to be. to be understanding of his emotions. He told me he still wants me to come to him when I need to talk, but I don't know what this middle ground looks like. I guess my questions boil down to, how do I work through this and strike a balance of venting while giving space? How do I get through the embarrassment

of knowing he's felt this way for months? And I've been oblivious. What advice do you have for couples with mismatched styles of coping? Am I taking this too personally? Thank you so much for your help, clearly an overshare. What did you think? My first thought on what's happening here is, I think she's made some changes and perhaps he kind of sized this whole situation up before she made those changes. Like she's said that she's been actively trying to work on changing those situations in her life. So maybe before she was just like venting about the same things and nothing was changing and he was getting annoyed. And now perhaps he's not noticing the shift that she's making because I think it, as we've talked about on here before, when people are repeating the same thing and they're not changing and they're not making doing anything

differently and they're just literally ruminating and repeating the same stories, it can feel very frustrating. Right. So maybe she just needs to tell him like, look, this is, I am making these changes. These are new things that I'm doing that I'm trying to kind of process here. I'm open to your feedback in terms of like how it's making you feel. And if you do like, I know what's happening here is he loves her. He feels badly that he can't really help with this. And that's what's frustrating. It wouldn't be frustrating if he didn't care. He would just like turn on his listening ears for 20 minutes and then be like, oh, that sounds tough and get back to doing whatever he's doing. So I think her giving him permission that he doesn't have to fix it, that she, you know, she's not

looking to him to try to give her the perfect advice might give him a little bit of freedom to say, I don't need to help you with this. I just need to listen to your process here. Right. I think a lot of the times also when you like, because again, like you said, she seems self-aware enough to sort of have gathered that she's been kind of draining him

or maybe those around her and gotten ahead of it. But I think sometimes when you have that conversation with someone and you're like, oh, sorry I was that way. And then they're like, it's okay. Yeah, you know, like it was hard when you're like, oh, I thought I was, I said that I was sorry. for doing it, but I actually, like, didn't think I was, the response that I wanted from you was, oh, like, I didn't even, no, it was fine. Yeah, it was totally fine. You weren't being overbearing.

Like, I felt totally like, I didn't notice that at all. I think that's kind of the response you're hoping for. Right. Right. Right. Because she seems a little insulted that he actually did feel that way, almost because she knows she did it. But I think in her, she had hoped that his response would be that it didn't really bother him that much or that she wasn't that way. And so it can feel a little bit like embarrassing or insulting, even when you've preemptively said it, that you were right. Yeah, totally. She knew it and he confirmed it. And she, you're right. She didn't really like the way that felt. But again, I want to validate that it is embarrassing. I think there's something embarrassing about the idea of like, I'm spilling my guts. And while I'm talking, you're thinking about

how you'd like to get out of this conversation. Yeah, that doesn't feel good. So I think that she probably needs to share that with him. And I'm glad they're having this conversation. It's coming up at the right time. They're about to move in together. I think this is perfect, you know, something great for them to discuss and figure out where they can find she's asking about the middle ground. And I think the pre-conversation to finding the middle ground is what's frustrating about this, Is it that you can't help me? Is it that I'm repeating myself? Is it that I'm not taking your advice? Or that you feel like I'm not making any changes? Or is it just merely like you want, it's too much for your brain at the end of a long day? And you just don't want to have to think that hard. Like what is actually going on? I think she needs to tease apart with him what it is that's feeling frustrating. And then they can find this middle ground of like, okay, maybe we don't talk about it after he's had a long day at work. and he's a little brain fried.

Like I know after I come out of a day full of sessions, the people around me are sort of like, okay, I need a minute before I can get into their personal stuff because my brain just needs to like rest kind of and reset. So maybe it is a time of day thing, or maybe he can be open with her and say, I don't have the bandwidth right now to do this. Like maybe I'm going to go like play basketball or whatever

and come back and maybe we can talk about. about it, then just them having open enough communication where it doesn't become offensive, where it just becomes like, I love you, I want to help you, here's the way that I'm going to be in the best state of mind to help you. And it's not that I don't care. It's that I love you so much that this sometimes feels frustrating that like there's nothing I can do to help or however he's feeling. Yeah. And I think, I think that's all great advice and a good way for her to like draw the boundaries and find out the context for it. It's not just about like, you're just doing this annoys me. It's about the more specifics of like what about that is the part because

it it could be, you don't want to like assume that it's he doesn't want you to speak to him at all or that he never wants to hear this at the end of the day. But it could be like, I think finding out the context and the specificities are going to like make your whole relationship function better because you're going to know like the ins and outs of that person even better. And when you live together, that's something that really definitely happens more naturally and the more you can talk about it, I think the less you'll fight about it. But then also I thought something that stood out to me was a line that she wrote. She says, I even told him sometimes I feel like I need to tell him about these situations so he knows what's going on in my life and less to bring

him in for advice. So I would sort of examine maybe there is an underlying resentment also there and that maybe he that you don't feel like he's curious enough or is asking you enough questions about, you know, what's going on with your sister or what's going on with your work or whatever it is that you seem to be complaining about. So you kind of feel like he doesn't really know me. He's not interested in getting to know me on that deep of a level, which could be an underlying feeling.

And I think that that's not necessarily true. I think a lot of the times men maybe like can operate differently in those contexts where they're not, they don't want to like pry or they're not with their friends. maybe they're not getting as emotionally in depth, as a lot of females seem to have a lot more practice with that. I think that's a great point. Yeah, he might not realize. I think she does probably have to share that piece with him if she hasn't already. Like, even in the context of, I don't need you to fix this. I just kind of want you to know me, know what's going on in my mind or in my life throughout

my days and weeks. And, you know, I just want us to be close and connected in that way. it's not because I'm asking you for advice. And I think that if she could make that clear, that might give him some relief. But yeah, I agree. That probably is a disconnect that they're having. So that's worth bringing up. And this is great. This is good that this is coming up right now.

This is exactly where you guys should be. These are conversations that you should be having as you're moving in together. And it's almost like the embarrassment of this conversation is the initial kind of gut punch, but if you can get over it and kind of realize, like, okay, we're working through it. Maybe there were moments where I was talking and he was thinking like, oh, I wish this conversation would end. And that sucks. But acknowledging that, kind of like accepting the reality of that and then moving towards changing it is all you can do. And it's going to give you freedom once you can open up dialogue about it and not have it be an elephant in the room. So you guys are on the right page.

It can feel like, I think we have a sense sometimes that if we don't communicate perfectly or we're not completely in sync in terms of like the questions we ask or the expectations versus the reality of what you're getting, that you're kind of doomed or it feels like a question of compatibility. But I think it's much more realistic to just be like asking and getting closer to those things the longer you're together. And that's sort of like the beauty of a long term relationship and living with someone is like they get.

get to know you on that level. Most people don't automatically just understand the best way that every single person in their life operates. Totally. Yes. And it feels, again, it's like we talked about a few weeks ago, it feels kind of unromantic and like people are under the illusion that like when you are in love, like everything just flows like water and there's this magical connection that just automatically happens and we talk for hours and we both love it. It's like, no, sometimes it needs to be like a business arrangement. Like I have a 20 minute capacity for like deep emotional interpersonal conversation. If she's a listener of this podcast, she probably has a lot more than a 20 minute capacity for deep emotional interpersonal conversation. I'm willing to guess

he's not. So it feels like a business when you're saying kind of like, okay, I can only tolerate this for 20 minutes. Doesn't mean I don't love you. It's just kind of like the way that my brain works and the way that my psyche works and whatever that is and not to take it personally because I could see if he was having hour and a half long conversations with other people and not her, but I have a hunch he's not doing that. So it's not always going to just happen naturally in these conversations are part of being in a relationship and figuring each other out, like you said. Right. Fights are what make you closer, generally speaking. Yes. And the change happens when you're in this state that she's in, which is I'm uncomfortable because I feel

sort of rejected or I feel disconnected or I feel embarrassed. You almost have to feel that before you can get to the other side of it. If you're just comfy all the time, you're not probably going to make any big changes in your relationship. So keep doing it. Have the talk. Have it again. There's more. I think there's a little bit more. You probably got a little triggered and maybe shut down. So I think this needs to be readdressed. Agreed. All right, you want to read our regist? Sure. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I love your podcast.

Thank you both so much for all the amazing guidance. I think I was a bitch, and I would love your help to not make the same mistake again. I'm getting married this summer to my long-term boyfriend of eight years, ages 19 through 27. He's someone who makes me a better version of myself. He's not perfect, but we consistently bring out better versions of each other. Post-college, we live in the city where he grew up, and I don't have very many of own friends here. We have plenty of shared friends, but all my close personal friends and family live in other cities. Because of this, we hang out with his family a lot, which makes my mom jealous

because she doesn't see us often. My mom and I are very close, and when talking on the phone recently, with my fiancé in earshot, I think I crossed the line. My mom is pretty insecure slash jealous of how close we are with my fiance's mom, and I had been anxious about telling her my fiance's mom's friends wanted to throw me a bridal shower. After a while of talking over the phone about an hour, with some wine, I told her. And while she took it well, we got into the topic of my mother-in-law. They're both friendly, but definitely have a female power struggle. I ended up telling my mom a story of an incident that happened over Christmas where my mother-in-law had crossed the line. And in response of the story, my mom said, fuck, insert her name here. And my fiancee heard on speakerphone.

He's definitely upset and I feel horrible because the story did not need to be told and I egged it on. I feel horrible because I definitely fed into the mean girl spirit, bringing up unnecessary issues to make my mom feel better. I felt the need to do this in the past with friends and family and I don't like the person I am when I do it. Can you help me hold back the indulgent mean girl attitude? I hate putting other people down behind their backs. Thanks, a recovering mean girl. I like this question a lot. Yeah.

Because I can relate to it. I feel like we all have like a friend or a family member who seems to like really like, the conversation sort of seems to go smoother when there's like some shit talking going. Yes. Yeah. Like it feels like it's like feeding it. And it can be hard to resist the urge to go there. Yes.

And I think in this situation, this exact situation, it was like you're almost, you could, you could soothe someone's emotions in a few different ways. and you don't really think that one of the ways that you can soothe someone is by engaging in shit talk with them. But it does, that is kind of a way that we can soothe each other because it's sort of like a social evolutionary construct that humans have done for probably ages in whatever context we could shit talk. Because it's a bonding thing. It's kind of like you and I are on the same team. We feel the same ways. It's a way of sharing emotions.

without sharing your own personal stuff. So we can connect and be emotional about something outside of ourselves. There was a good heart under it. She wanted her mom to feel better. She probably wouldn't have cared that much if she didn't get caught. But it is a tough spot. Yeah, I think it's the perfect way of putting it. Like it is hard to, it's a much easier, much more fun way to deflect from your

own feelings of insecurity to bring someone else's situation down or to say their situation isn't so great or like this person, you know, like I hung out with this person and we had a nice time, but, you know, they're also, like, they're annoying in this way. So don't, you could feel better about like you're still on top in that way. And it's very hard to, I feel like it's hard to resist that a lot of the time or you have to be like in a really good head space to not go there, especially if that's something that's sort of baked into a lot of your conversations. And especially if the other person is going there too. Do you have any tips for like kind of in the moment when you might be like very tempted to talk shit about that person or say something negative?

It's someone you actually really like and don't really feel anything negative with, but you still want to bond with the person that you're speaking to. Right. And not insult to injury by being like, yeah, they're the sweetest. I love them. Right, right, right. That's like a very awkward moment if you totally reject. Like, they're almost being vulnerable by putting, it's like the vicarious vulnerability or whatever you want to call it. Like, they're being vulnerable by telling you their feelings about somebody else that you also know. And so if you're like, no, I actually really like her. Like don't say that about her. That's really mean. It's kind of like the ultimate, it's like almost shameful. You know, like you're taking that person's vulnerability and like stomping on it. which is ironic because they're not being super kind in that moment. Well, you're doing the opposite instead of we're on the same team.

It's like, oh, I'm actually on the other team. Yes, yes. And that can feel really like rejecting. So yeah, I don't think people are going to be quick to do that, which is why this happens a lot because it feels so awkward to stop a person when they're in mid shit talk and just actually be like, you know what, this actually doesn't feel good. I kind of like that person and this is upset.

You know, it's like so uncomfortable to say something like that. And you're ruining all the fun. Yes. And you're a buzzkill. And I'm probably not going to call you again for a while because you're raining on my parade, totally. I think there is something, it's interesting because I was reading an article that had a research study on like gossip and that it's very frowned upon, obviously, in our society

to gossip. But there are some pro-social aspiral. to gossip if it's done in a way that sort of is like helping, and this is where it came from evolutionarily, like helping others learn about the people around them. So like if it's sort of like, oh, this person, you know, read my diary while I wasn't home, then it's kind of like, oh, that's good information for me to know.

Like, or this person, you know, is really cheap. And like if you, they're going to try to get out of a, bill or they're you know it's kind of like okay good to know like now i know maybe i don't want to go out to dinner with that person or you know i think there are some aspects um of shit talking or gossiping or whatever that are in some ways helping others prepare themselves and it does sound like this mother-in-law she said crossed the line right wasn't that the yeah i mean to say fuck this person is like that's a little strong yeah right that's not helpful but her sharing the story about what the mother-in-law did, if she really did cross the line.

If this mother wasn't already triggered by this person, you know, there is a school of thought that is like, unless it's just totally mean, like about someone's appearance or something they can't control, but if it's like sharing stories about how another person, like, acted in a certain situation that's factual and true, it might not be the worst thing. But I think in this situation, because it's her mother and her mother-in-law, I would advise against it even more strongly, even though I'm not a fan of gossip in general. But I would advise against it because what's the, you know, like you said, what can she do to stop doing this? If you envision the outcome, right, you're just going to be creating negative energy between,

like, fueling your mother's fire towards your mother-in-law. And now when they have to be together or there's a family gathering or there's some type of, you know, it's just go or the worst case scenario of exactly what happened, which is your fiancee overhears her like literally just cursing her out on the phone. What's the benefit? What good is going to come from it versus just saying, yeah, I can understand why you feel that way. That might be a nice way to say, you're not crazy, but I'm also not joining in this. Right. And sometimes there's like an almost like a third unhealthy, but maybe less than healthy option of like, all right, you're not going to talk shit about this person.

Maybe find someone further away from you guys to sort of put that on that's going to affect you guys less that's not really in your lives and try to foster a friendship, almost like create the team being like the three of you. Which is hard to do if someone has an underlying issue with someone. But a lot of the times when you actually see or hang out with someone in person, you kind of like feel bad about the negative things you think about them when you when they're actually being like nice or you feel like positive regard from them. So if you could sort of create a sport, maybe you invite your mom to that shower and you make her go out of your way to

make her feel really included. And then it's the three of you. And then you pick one of mother-in-law's friends or some annoying cousin that's there that you can all. Or just you and your mom. Like you can still have that kind of like gossipy thing because it can be fun. I agree. I think it is harmless when it's someone who's like not at all really in in the circle that needs to get along. So just try to channel it elsewhere. I think that's why like reality TV is a great channel for this because it feels like it's real people that you can kind of observe with other people and then gossip about those people. and they're sort of getting paid to be the fodder for your gossip. That's like their whole reason for their existence on earth.

And they're not going to hear it. It's probably never going to get back to them unless you're like an internet troll, which I don't recommend, like leave them alone. But like behind their back, you can talk a lot of crap about reality stars. And that's a great way to kind of bond over like, oh, we both hate this character. Oh, you know, that thing that person did is so annoying. So maybe you could start watching a show with your mom and find someone that you can talk shit about that's never going to find out. Exactly.

But you feel like you know them, but you don't actually know them. They don't know you. So it doesn't really matter what you think. Yes. And you can have that bonding experience, but without really hurting anybody. I love that. We should call this episode how to effectively shit talk in a healthy way. Yeah.

Right. It's true. Although I saw something recently that was like, a fun for like the mental health of reality stars. Did you see this? No. It was like somebody was trying to. We're going to pay them even more to make fun of them. Yeah. Like I didn't watch love is blind, but I guess somebody was twisted up or affected negatively, which they all, I mean, I do think the whole thing is sadistic a lot of times and the producers are really evil and like, you know, want to drive them crazy. But it was something about like, let's start a fun to help with,

Reality Stars, mental health. I don't know exactly what that was, but it was just an interesting topic of conversation, like how they are affected, but they're also intentionally signing up for this. Right. So I think if anyone needs to pay the reality stars more, it's the networks.

So like if you're getting the viewership, you should just make it more worth their while, paying them more, they can pay for their own therapy. I don't think it's up to the viewers to subsidize that situation. I agree. But that's funny.

That would be an interesting, Betjist. Right. Totally. But yeah, I agree. They should just give them like a lifetime therapy or something. Yeah. So as far as this reader, I would just, you know, try to channel it elsewhere. But you learn the lesson the hard way. I wouldn't talk shit about your mother-in-law to your mother. I would keep it out of the family, keep it separate. You learn this lesson early. I think a lot of people learn this lesson early in their marriage and their relationship, like, don't say, don't like give too much negative information about your new family to your old family and vice versa because they're going to have to be around each other and it's just not injecting positive vibes into the new family connections.

Especially not on speakerphone where their child can hear them. Let's do some intentions. I'll read them. Hi, guys. First off, thank you for all the insights. every week, every Tuesday you both give me a needed mental reset. I'm looking for an intention to help strengthen my relationships. Oftentimes, I will sabotage myself in social situations and try to prove to myself that people in my life don't care about me. I feel like I'm constantly looking for reasons why someone might not care about me and feeling almost fulfilled because I'm proving myself right. I do this mostly with my significant other and try to prove that he does not value our

relationship as much as I do. These feelings have been impacting trust in my relationship and causing lots of friction. The more I allow myself to become angry or upset, the more I feel I am pushing people away. For example, when friends or my significant other are busy when I reach out, I think, well, obviously they don't care that much. I was right. In these situations, I feel like it's not about the people around me, but me wanting to make my relationships competition and win. I want to stop putting myself in these situations and feeding off the negativity I'm bringing to myself. However, it feels like I'm almost satisfied by these feelings of being right. XOXO, XO, the girl who's a little too competitive.

What do you think? Yeah, my guess here is that there's some, she has some abandonment issues, something that's happened to her in the past where someone has either been emotionally, she's been abandoned emotionally or even like literally physically abandoned. I think there's some fear here in someone not feeling, enough love for her and then ultimately, I'm assuming the fear is that they will leave or they will abandon the relationship. And all of this competition over who loves who more or who's more invested in the relationship, I think is probably an attempt at trying to protect her against that.

We've talked a few times about just being prepared for an emotional trauma make it easier. and I think she's probably in the camp of like if I am prepared for this, then it will be easier if this person leaves me or this person rejects me. So I think all of this competition is her way of being like, if I know that they, I love them more than they love me, then I won't be as hurt when they ultimately, when that ultimately ends up being true. Right. And then something that proves her right just makes her feel like more comfortable in that

mindset. So she keeps, like you said, what have you said again about like your thoughts just sort of like becoming deeper and the neural connections becoming stronger the more you do them? So she's practicing that. She's admitting she's practicing that. And then it becomes more true because it's more just deeply ingrained in her mindset. Totally. And I wouldn't be surprised if she's had instances in the past that maybe have led to some abandonment

where maybe there was something that happened when she was three years old. and then in her, you know, fourth grade relationship, she was so afraid of the abandonment that she started to get, you know, like even little kids. They get dramatic. Like, oh, you were talking to this friend. Now you're not, I'm not friends with you anymore because you played, you had a play date with her and not with me. And now you're like going to lean in with anger like she is in these relationships and, you know,

be hypersensitive. And then people are kind of like, you know what? like the way this feels. So yeah, actually I'm not going to be your friend anymore. And it becomes like the self-fulfilling prophecy because you're so afraid of abandonment that you act in this sort of angry kind of whatever it is, like an irritable, angry, overly sensitive way that then does end up turning people away. And then you're like, see, I was right. I knew it. I knew it. And now part of your sense of identity and something that you're proud of yourself about is like, I had a feeling. and I knew I was right.

Like a lot of people are like, oh, I have a great intuition about people. And it's like, do you have a great intuition about people? Or are you causing those people to act that way? Yes. You're like creating a pattern and then relishing in like becoming aware of this pattern that's more of like your own pattern than like a worldwide phenomenon that you're like predicting.

So how do you get yourself out of that? What intentions do you have for her for? Yeah, so I wrote a few. And I think what's going to work for her is that if she's listening to this, that she can maybe become a little bit more self-aware of that this is coming from a place of fear. If I'm right, I could be totally wrong. And feel free to write in and tell me if I'm totally wrong about the fear of abandonment thing, I could be off base with that. But if that is true and there's an underlying fear under all of this, I think becoming aware of that fear and then communicating that to the people that are being affected by that. this. So being able to say to them, hey, look, when I'm overly sensitive because you don't answer me, it's because I'm really afraid that, like, you don't love me as much as I love you and, like, leaning in with some softer emotions instead of the accusatory emotions that make the person feel like they're not a good partner or they're not a good friend or it just makes them feel badly about themselves, which doesn't really want to make them want to be around you probably. And it

spirals. So I think if she can have this conversation and lean in with some, softness, then that would be helpful. And so what I wrote for her was, being soft will bring us closer than being right. So when it comes to these relationships, so she can remind herself, if I'm feeling insecure, being soft will bring us closer than being right. So if she's just, you know, saying like, okay, I knew you were, you know, I knew it. I knew I loved you more than you love me. Sort of like, well, that's just not, that's really ultimately not going to help.

What would help is you saying, I know this is my issue. When you didn't answer my call, I got really triggered. It's probably because of, you know, this boyfriend that I had when I was 17 and this thing or this childhood thing. And I know it's my issue and I'm working on it. But I just wanted to, you know, kind of communicate with you about how I was feeling and coming at it with a little more softness than. and the irritability and the anger and the I'm right that I love you more than you love me thing.

I love that. And I think that you could use that for any issue that you have, like sort of along those lines where your first instinct is to just, again, say, oh, I was right. This person's acting in this way. Or even just your first instinct to start with anger. I think that's a great intention for anyone with that to bring it back to the beginning of the episode. Yes, totally. I think she has to take more accountability and control over being triggered by these people than putting it back on them and saying like, well, you're the bad person and I knew it all along that like I'm more invested in this than you are. And so therefore, you know, that's what the focus is instead of having her focus. So another one that I wrote is I will feel more secure when I learn to soothe myself.

So instead of looking for them to act in a certain way to make her feel loved that she knew. needs to kind of learn to realize that this might be her own insecurity and soothe herself rather than, you know, seeking out specific behaviors, random, how long it took them to answer her phone call to make her feel better if ultimately she's in a secure and loving relationship, which I think if she wasn't, she probably would have mentioned that. She didn't say anything about it. But if you're in a relationship where you do generally with a clear mind feel like these people love you and care about you, then now it's on you. not to read into every little behavior that they do.

Do you do some triggered? Yeah, let's do triggered. Hi, Dredana and Dr. Naomi. I'm a long time you up listener and have loved being able to add oversharing to my weekly podcasts. I have a triggered scenario for you. My boyfriend of two years previously lived in a house with roommates, but he moved into my apartment in the beginning of February and we will be moving

to a bigger apartment together at the end of April. At the time we moved in together, his mom was in the hospital after having a major surgery, so there was a lot going on with his family. On April 1st, the rest of his roommates moved out of the house, but their lease goes through the end of April. We were at his family's house for Easter, and as we were leaving, his mom made multiple comments about how he was going back to an empty house since all his roommates moved out and he didn't correct her. Since we were on our way out the door, I just waited until we were outside and asked if his mom doesn't know we are living together. His response was, quote, sometimes it's just easier to nod along instead of correcting her.

I told him this felt less like he just hasn't told her and more like he's actively hiding it. And he said he just felt like by the time she got home from the hospital, in the beginning of March, it felt weird to tell her. He agreed to tell her the next time it comes up because I told him I didn't want to lie if she started asking how it is, quote, finally living together in our new place when we've been living together for months. Am I right to be triggered by this or do you think I'm overreacting? I think this is triggering. Yeah, I think this is triggering too. Although I I can understand, like sometimes I think this might be a situation of like I waited so long because she was in the hospital.

Now it's awkward to kind of be like, oh, and by the way, we moved in together a month ago and I didn't tell you. Right. That it's almost like, then it's like awkward for her. Like, why didn't you tell me or like, you know, a month? You've been living with her for a month and you didn't say anything, but maybe he just didn't want to overwhelm her while she was sick. So I do see the other side of it.

I could see it, but to me, if I were her, my immediate thought would be that his mom doesn't like me. And so he's, I mean, that would be my, again, I'm putting myself in in her shoes. This might be me totally like creating some story. But my thought would be, why didn't he tell her, even when she had surgery, it's not like she had to do anything or it's stressful for her. Like the only reason he's stressful for her is if she didn't like his girlfriend and he told her that they were moving in together. But if she loved the girlfriend or she was like excited about the relationship, it'd be nice news that he just, oh, like, what's going on with you? We're moving in with so and so. Like, it's going to be exciting.

The fact that he felt like he couldn't tell her because she had so much going on. I don't tell people negative things when they have a lot going on. So to me, if she's, I would take it as you didn't tell her because she interprets us living together as a negative. And that's why it's easier to just let her think whatever she wants to think. Totally. Yeah, I could see, I definitely see that because otherwise it would have been a gift, like, when she was sick to give her the good news of like so-and-so's moving in. But it's like she has to help them move. Like, totally.

And we need you to come over and lift some heavy boxes. I get it. I see. And I think that's exactly what she's feeling. But I think there's almost like if you, if she's not taking it personally, I think there's a bit of like a mother and a son thing where it's sort of like it might have just been an adjustment for her. Because sometimes there's just like, oh, like, you know, I'm losing my baby to another woman. Like, it's almost like a lot of moms have a hard time when their sons get married. And oddly, for whatever reason, like dads have a hard time when their daughters get married.

Sometimes, like, there's definitely something there, which is kind of weird and a Freudian kind of weird thing. If you think about it, like mothers and sons and fathers and daughters. But anyway, I digress. There is like, you know, it might not be about her. It might just be about the son kind of moving on and moving in with someone else rather than taking it personally. That's why, like, we've talked on here about how mother-in-laws and daughter-in-laws, there's a power struggle. Yeah, there's like a power struggle there of like, I was the woman in your life and now there's this other woman in your life and you're probably going to do more for her than you will for me or be more, you know, accommodating to her than to me. you know, she's going to get more attention or so there might be just some kind of like issues that

have nothing to do with you that are just about her kind of letting her son go to another woman. I mean, it's probably, it might be you. There's a chance. Maybe she doesn't like you, but there's also a very good chance. It's not about you. It would happen with any woman that he's moving in with for the first time. Right. Maybe like float that idea and to him and like, again, give him that is it your mom feels a little,

like is it about that, ask him about that. And if he, and when are you planning on telling her would be a question that I would also need to know? Like, right. Is this going to be a big secret? Because that's not cool. But I agree. Maybe, okay, even it, fine. Even if the mom, even if it is about not necessarily the mom not liking her, but the mom having like a feeling of sadness around her son being with a woman.

Like letting go, I guess. Anyone, sure. Like that's something that you can give him the space to say and it's not a big deal. you understand if that's it. But you should probably like mention that instead of saying like, oh, I just didn't mention it. And like it just didn't, you know, didn't get around to it. It's like she's clearly, if you're someone saying something that's clearly to the opposite

effect, that's a great opening to be like, actually, I'm not going back to an empty house. Now you're getting into like you're lying territory. Here's the good news. We, you know, right. So I think she can address like this. Why do you think this was going to be more stressful for your, like, why? wasn't this a happy, joyous news that you were going to give your mother to make her feel happy when she was not feeling well versus why did you assume that this was going to be like a burden of some

sort on her? And maybe he will say, look, she has a hard time letting go, like, you know, whatever. Maybe that is the case and it's more just about their relationship and her like letting go of her son. Or maybe it really is something that she doesn't like about her, which if you have, ask the question, be prepared for the answer also. Well, that's something you should know. Totally. Doesn't sound fun, but necessary. All right.

Let's do another one. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I love your podcast. Listen to it every week. I see my own therapist on Fridays. So this is a great midweek practice for me. I can't tell you how many people say that. This is like what gets them to their next therapy session.

So that's really fun. Yeah. You can see that. Sometimes you need a little refresher. Yes, a little mental health hit. That's what you might say. I'm writing with a triggered scenario. I'm an interior designer. I work for myself and am completely self-taught.

I'm proud that I was able to leave a full-time job in a completely different sector to make a career out of my talent and passion. My triggered scenario. I recently finished a project for a client where I decorated her living and dining room. I selected all of her art, furniture, textiles, accessories, etc. As part of the project, I give clients a video presentation which explains my rationale behind the selections I made. For example, I picked this coffee table book because you told me you loved beach vacations with your family. And adding a plant to this corner will give us height to balance out the windows and warmth from the woven texture of the basket. The client recently started her own decorating Instagram account.

I built my business on social media and I understand its importance in showcasing your work and knowledge. I also know that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and everyone has to start somewhere. But this client is using my exact words as if they are her own. own and not crediting me. She is careful with the wording so as not to completely lie, but she's definitely avoiding the truth. Actual examples include. We bought these chairs because we liked how the black ties into our kitchen island. She did in fact buy them, but I selected them and vocalized that I picked them because they tie into the island color. Adding a plan to your corner adds height and warmth. Decorating with coffee table books from places you love to go is a great way to make your

house feel like a home. Most of this makes me laugh because I'm picking. picking out pillows and art, not changing the world. It's not that serious. But sometimes, especially when I think about the years I put into my business as a side hustle and working for others for free to learn, it makes me a little defensive and irritated that she hasn't even said so much as working with a designer has really helped me learn more about something I'm passionate about. I don't know. Just throw me a bone or two. On the other hand, she did pay me for this service, so I guess she kind of owns the ideas. Seems like a stretch, but I'm trying to understand her perspective. On a scale of one to going back to home goods and the pillow you should have bought

already sold, how triggered should I be? Thanks for all that you do. Copy catty. I love this one. I thought it was so funny. This is really funny. I think this is triggering because she's starting her own interior design page. If she was just putting it on her personal page, I would say less triggering, but because she's trying to, it's clearly, if it's an interior design page, she's trying to play it off like it's her own designs. That's where I think it's triggering. I agree. I think it's triggering because of that. But it also made me think, like, I wonder if my therapist listens to this podcast or my other show and it's like, actually, I know where that insightful thought came from and it wasn't you, bitch. But I do try to say,

like, you know, I have my conversations with my therapist. I've learned X, Y, Z. Well, you're giving it to him right now. Okay. Right now you're giving a global, most of the most insightful things that I say come from my therapist. There you go. There's your credit. It's my interpretation of the thing.

Yeah. I mean, I do try to like shout him out every, no, and then because I'm not pretending like I'm the expert or I don't know anything. But occasionally, obviously, like, I'm not sure like what's my thought and what thought is coming from him. But this seems a little more blatant, I think. And again, I'm not trying to pretend that I am a therapist. Right. And like using his ideas as my own.

Totally. So I think it wouldn't be, it would be less triggering if she was like, been working with a designer and learned these things or tagged her or said something like that. But this is kind of annoying. I see what she's saying where it's like it's not that big of a deal, but it also is very annoying. Yeah. It's, I totally agree. She's not going to like start a lawsuit over it. But again, I think if this person was doing this just on their own personal Instagram page, like, look at my house.

I redecorated it. I think she would have said we used what would be amazing if this was me is I would say we used an amazing designer. Here's her name. Shout her out. Give her some business. You love what she does. The fact that not only is she not shouting her out and driving some business to her page. Yeah, I agree.

this is triggering. I give this like a seven. I agree. I think seven nerd. Yeah, seven. Because here's the other thing to remember when it does trigger you because you're probably not going to be able to say anything to her because it's just going to be like weird or probably contentious is that one thing to remember because I also see, you know, and it's funny because like I steal ideas from my therapist and then people steal ideas from our show and they're on TikTok or on whatever and they try to, you know, claim them as their own. And there is like a cycle. Most. information is sort of recycled and packaged differently. And I think the thing to remember if you're getting irritated is like, no one does what you do like you do. Like people can try to copy it, but like no one really, no one can be you. Like you're the only person who can be you. No one can fully replicate your style. And whether that's not, it's not just your ideas, but it's like the way that you present them. And clearly she has, she can feel confident that she has like business acumen in actually creating this business.

And it's more than just like throwing ideas at a person. So just keep that in mind that like just because someone is trying to copy you doesn't mean that they are the same as you. I agree. I wonder for this person, maybe somebody along the line taught her, okay, you have to put a tall plant next to a window or whatever, adding height to a room using a thing. Like somebody probably taught her that. So she's probably using somebody else's ideas.

And now you're making me feel guilty. I'll shout out Tara Brock, who was my inspiration, a lot of my inspiration. She's a meditation teacher that I love, that I have taken a lot of what I use just for myself and in here. So you're shouting out your therapist. I'm shouting out Tara Brock. She's an awesome meditation teacher. So, yeah, I learned what I learned from somewhere.

You know, she learned what she learned from somewhere. So even in this sense of like just a collective universe, she's added. to the general carmic experience of interior design. This woman's going to have a cool idea. She'll give it to someone else. They'll give it to someone else. And you're enhancing the Zen beauty

of everyone's homes with your ideas, even though you're not getting credit. So that's another kind of way to look at it. Right. Think of it as charity work. Exactly. That was a fun one. That was fun.

I like that. Keep sending them in oversharingabedges.com. Rate review and subscribe to the show. It's the best way. for us to know you guys are listening and engaged and so fun to read your reviews. So send them in. And I think that's it for today. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales-Puccoe, and Rebecca Salis McHale. Editing by Massilio Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to

oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches