Oversharing - How To Fix A Fading Friendship

Episode Date: August 23, 2022

It’s back to school season so Jordana and Naomi start the show with a conversation about whether or not having kids really makes you happy (the answer: yes and no). The essie Overshare email of the week comes from a listener who needs help with a long term friendship that’s on the rocks because of distance. Is a simple phone call all it takes to repair tension in a meaningful relationship? And should we stop relying on a text to say all that we need to say? The Betchicist email involves a soon-to-be-married couple that wants to adopt three children… but can they afford the expense? Jordana and Naomi debate whether or not it’s your place as a sister to offer an opinion on the decision to adopt. Then they finish the week with some Triggered scenarios, including body comments at the gym, inconsiderate parents, and a thoughtless friend. Thanks again to our presenting sponsor essie. For more information, visit: essie.com/colors-and-connection Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. So great to be back.

How are you doing since the last time we spoke? So good. I know that sometimes I start and tell you about some stuff. I wanted to give you a chance to share anything since we haven't spoken, but I have a funny back to school situation. It was just back to school here in Texas is like a different thing. So the kids went back on Wednesday. Oh, they're back in school. That's crazy. They're back in school. So early. I know. I feel so like, I don't know. I just feel like I have a lot more balance in my life now. It's really, they're in school. I'm in a really good mood. I'm in a really good mood.

The weekend was super enjoyable. But so they went back on Wednesday, and I don't know if it's a Texas thing or a prosper thing, but it was like mom, Mardi Gras at the bars in town. It was like, you know. Celebration. Celebration, mimoses by 10.30, 11 o'clock. It was like filled with moms celebrating back to school, like a national holiday. It was crazy.

That's very funny. So now that I know, I'm going to have to block out. my morning on back to school and join everybody for that because it looked like a blast. I didn't get to go, but I heard about it. That is an early back to, we were recording this on August 15th. So they've been back since like the beginning of August. It sounds like for like second week in August. Yeah.

Wow. I thought you were going to tell a back to school shopping story. I was like, okay, this sounds very different. But it's funny that you say that because I followed this economist on Instagram who wrote this book expecting better all about like sort of just like new age parenting stuff. She's not a doctor. She's like a researcher on just like studies and basically like you obviously get information about doc from your doctor about like what to do and what not to do if you're, you know, looking to have kids or even raising them and all that stuff. And what she does is she kind of

like looks at all the studies to sort of see to judge for herself. Right. Right. What. What's actually working and what's not working. Because everything is based on probability, right? Like, don't drink when you're pregnant. Have one cup of coffee when you're pregnant. She's very much like, I looked at the studies. This is the percent of people who had issues if they did this and this. And then I'm making an educated decision.

Her name is Professor Emily Oster, for anyone interested in following. But she posted this really interesting statistic that I've been thinking about a lot recently as I, you know, think about starting a family or having kids. their story kind of plays into it. And someone asked, she does like a weekly Q&A on her Instagram story. And someone asked, like, does the research say that, like, having kids makes you happier or less happy or something like that? And she was like, well, actually, like, the research says that when they're actually with their

kids, they're not happy. But, like, the whole act of having a family and having kids does make you happy. Like, the experience of having a kid does make you happier. Right. She's like, and that really resonates with me as well, which I just thought was, was very interesting. It kind of sounds like exactly what you're saying. Do you know what I mean?

Like there is a celebration of like no longer being with your kids. Totally. But like it's this idea that everyone wants them and like, you know, you're naturally supposed to have them. But you do hear like the same sentiment. Like you said, it's all the moms in your neighborhood. Right. Or, and I hear that a lot for my friends who have kids.

It's just like, it doesn't really seem that great. But it almost sounds like a word. workout. So you know what I mean? Totally, right. I like I've prepared them. I've gotten myself fit. I got my kids fit as a fiddle. Now I'm going to send them off into the world. I had guilt about feeling that. And I've had guilt about, you know, feeling those feelings of I need a break. But I do think it's almost like, I would liken it. I always talk about how behavior is kind of like a slot machine or like motivation is like a slot machine. If you played a slot machine and you won, you know, pennies every single time, you played, it would be great. You could sit there all day and you probably win a couple hundred

dollars, but nobody would really do that because you don't get that dopamine hit. So I think sometimes with kids, it's the same thing. It's like it's hard. It's a struggle. They're bickering. You're tired. And then there's like that little moment of just like, I love you or a snuggle or like some cute thing or they do something that shows that it's all paying off and they're kind or whatever. And it's like that dopamine hit. So I think there's that too. I think maybe like 90% of it. Intermittent rewards. Yes. Intermittent rewards with kids. That kind of keeps you going through the tough parts of it. But I do think that the balance is nice. Like that's what my life just feels like it is balance where I'm not just working and momming and working and mommy. I'm like working, momming, doing Pilates, doing meditation, talking to a friend, a little bit of balance. So it's nice. That's interesting.

I'm going to follow her too. That sounds like good stuff because you hear so much that sometimes it's nice to boil it down to what are the actual, you know, tangible outcomes of all this effort that we're putting into everything. Totally. And she has like the research to do that. It's interesting also just because like you see so many studies and you just see the headlines, but they're kind of biased where you see like she talks about like screen time and stuff like. And it's funny. I find it interesting even though I don't have kids. She talks about like screen time and like how bad actually is it? It's like, yeah, if they study screen time, like, kids might be like worse off, but like what other things are kids who are watching TV all day? Like, what other probably

associated negative outcomes are with that? Like, it's probably more about like the economics of it or like demographics of it than it is about the actual thing at hand. But I thought it was interesting. Yeah. I was reminded of it as you said that story. But any regrets? Honestly, no, I mean, that's the thing. There's moments. There's moments where you're like, oh, my gosh, this is a lot, you know, but big picture, no. No, it's just, you know, they're, and as they get older, they get easier too. So for all you moms out there with tiny little ones, I do think it gets a little bit easier as they get older.

Well, I haven't hit teenage stage yet, so I can't attest to that. But keep us posted. No regrets. regrets. All good. I keep telling myself that. I keep telling myself. I'm sure when your kids, when your kids one day listen to this, they'll be happy to hear that. Yes. But guys, thank you so much for submitting all your emails. We've got some good ones today. And if you, again, want to leave a voicemail, it's 646363, 66.6294. And if you want to send an email yourself, a triggered segment, an ethical issue, just a general question you want us to answer, email oversharing

We love reading these. They're all so interesting and so different. And I did a little poll on my Instagram about what you guys want to hear. So we're definitely going to try to. Got so many responses. You guys have a lot of issues. I'm going to definitely, I'm excited to get into a lot of the topics that you guys suggested because there's just so many. Let's get into our email. Before I do, I just want to reiterate our voicemail phone number. If you guys want to leave a voicemail, you can call us at 646-363-6-2-9-4. or if you have a question for the show or you have an ethical dilemma, you'd like our input on, or if you have something that's triggering you that you want to know if we think should be triggered

or how to help with the trigger, you can email us at oversharing at betches.com, oversharing at betches.com. Now it's time for the overshare email of the week brought to you by our favorite nail polish brand, Essie. For many of us, the world feels lonelier than ever. So Essie launched hands all in, a cause initiative to combat loneliness with the power of colors and connection. Fostering meaningful relationships is super important. for your mental health. So today's email is all about friendship and how to feel more connected

to someone that you feel like you might have fallen off from. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Thanks for everything you do. I have a question about friendship grace periods. I am in my mid-30s and I have witnessed the ebbs and flows of all relationships. But today I am asking about long-term friendships. I have what I thought was a very close friend of about four years. I moved to cross-country four months ago for work and this friend has really not been present in my life change. Feeling the shift, I asked her about three months in if there was anything wrong. with me, her, etc. I really appreciated her responding with it wasn't me, validated that she'd been putting distance in general in all relationships as she was overwhelmed and burned out.

I understood for the most part as I do know what's going on in her life. My question is, at what point is this a valid boundary and at what point is an excuse for not being a good friend? I would like to brush it off. She gave an excuse and I would like to be mature, not dramatic. The shift, however, from close friend to hope you are well texts hurt. Additionally, she's, She was supposed to be in my new city for work for two months, starting this month, but when I asked her when she was arriving, no response. This was the point when I started feeling unimportant. She was my best friend in my last city. I moved around in my 20s, but was pretty settled at the point we met. So I didn't understand that almost zero communication. I know it hasn't been a long time. Perhaps I'm simply anxious. I have also had a lot happen, which may make time feel longer as so many life events have happened. But this also hurts. Life events happening that I feel. like I can't share as to not break this boundary or life events she knows about and chooses not to ask about. Is this the case of natural friendship flow? Am I just not a cool friend? Am I missing some clue? It clearly bothers me a lot. I already said something so that doesn't feel like an option.

Thanks so much. Anxious friend. Yeah, I think we don't have a timeline here. So it's hard to tell. It's interesting because she signs off Anxious Friend. My initial reaction to this is to have some patience. I'm not saying that means that she has to, you know, just keep banging down her door, but I think not writing off the friendship one way or the other and just kind of allowing it to unfold, however it's going to unfold. I think sometimes when people do have a lot going on and she said she was overwhelmed and burnt out, people become a little bit selfish, you know, in that place. And it doesn't mean that she's a selfish person. I think she's probably just going through a selfish phase where she's not really paying enough attention to her friendships.

That being said, I think she could send a text. This is just me. If it was me, I would probably just send like a question mark text after the text of like, when are you coming to the city where I live? Would you do that or would you be like, because this is a friend, right? And they were once close friends. I think I would say, and I get while you do that. You're like, hey, case you miss this.

But I almost feel like if she doesn't get the response from that that she wants, she might be like more anxious. I think about dating with this all the time because that's how I used to feel. I was like, should I double text or should I just like, is he not answering my being ghosted? Or is it just like, I don't really know what to do here? And like almost if I sent the second text, then I was more anxious like waiting for that. Although if they answered it, obviously like it's effective. But another part of me is because it's a friendship.

I would almost be like, hey, like, do you have like 10 minutes? to talk on the phone. On the phone. Yeah. At any point, like, in the next week or so, like, I would love to just get on the call, like, if we could. Yes, you're really good at that. I always love that about you.

Like, you're just like, let's get on the phone instead of spending 15 minutes, like, slowly texting back and forth. So I really appreciate that about you in general. And I think that that's a great suggestion here. Well, I just feel like it's so hard with text to, like, understand tone or understand, like, to have a real conversation. Obviously you can say like what's on your mind. But I just feel like I feel so much better after a phone call than I do when I relay

any kind of feelings over a text because it's like you send the text and then the other person doesn't answer maybe immediately. And then when they do, it's kind of like they've crafted what they think you like. It doesn't feel as natural. It just feels like two people crafting their thoughts like to hear to say what the other person wants to say. And then again, you don't have any totally. behind it. And so it feels like either harsher or less authentic. And to me, I think, and especially with dating,

I hated texting because it was like, you have no idea. It just doesn't feel like a real conversation and you have to interpret every little thing. How long did they take to respond? How short or how long was the message? What are they asking you in return? Whereas if you have a phone call, like, let's just she has the call and she could say, hey, I don't want to be like, she doesn't want to do 10 minutes in the next two weeks with you. I think that like I would call it dead personally because I think you can give 10 minutes at some point in the span of two weeks to anyone that you care about at all. You can make that time. Yep. And that's like that's part of it. And then the other part is like assuming she gets on this call with you, you just have a chance to say in front of her face and get an immediate response of saying like,

I felt weird about calling you were reaching out more because you said you burnt out. So I wanted to give you time. but like honestly it's just making me a little anxious and like I really did value your friendship like I miss you as and that's really what she's saying like I miss you as a friend and I was really looking forward to hanging out and then when you didn't answer I just felt like you didn't care and if you do and it's okay if you feel like we've drifted apart or you feel like we're not as close or you're not really as interested but like it would just be helpful for me again in my own if you could do me the favor almost for my own mental sanity so I'm not sitting here like wondering if you hate me or wondering what's going on if you could

just like let me know how you're feeling. Totally. I love that. And I think like you said, it works because you get to hear it directly. It works because you also get to see if she's going to give you the 10 minute phone call in the next couple of weeks. It's like kind of, all right, if you can't do that, then what is left here. And then I think on top of that, if her friend is going through something and you get on the phone, she might be able to start to open up about what she's going through, what's making her feel so overwhelmed and burnt out, versus like she's not going to write seven paragraphs over text about what her whole life story is and why she's so overwhelmed, but she might open up to you about that over the phone.

Once that happens, now you're like a source of support for her rather than an energy stuff. An obligation. Right. Now she, if you can be supportive to her if she chooses to open up over the phone, now. now you're both fueling each other. You're fueling her because you're being supportive and someone she can talk to about what she's going on, what's going on with her.

And she's fueling you because you don't have this anxious feeling, you know, an albatross on your back about this friendship fading. So I love that about just asking for 10 minutes on the phone. And maybe the 10 minutes turns into an hour and you guys can really reconnect over the phone. But yeah, I think you bring up a really good point. And we could probably do this across the board, especially with friendship stuff. I think with dating,

it's a little bit more difficult because it feels... Well, you're like, we barely even know each other. So it's like, like, 10 minutes to a date that person you've been on one or two dates with can feel like a little like, like in the wrong,

if you're not actually feeling, you might not get 10 minute phone call from someone that you went on one date with that you're feeling anxious about. But I think with friendships, it's like, if they can't give you 10 minutes on the phone within a span of two weeks, like, is it even a friendship?

Totally. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I love that. And I love in general with friendship and family and even, you know, in romantic relationship where you're like already in the relationship, get off of the text world, get on the phone. I totally, I love that advice. I think it makes the connection so much easier. I think it saves you a bunch of time back and forth texting versus just hopping on the phone and you could clear things up much more quickly. So I really like that advice for this. because there is nothing that feels like quite as depressing as like two unanswered texts then you're like it almost become i think it becomes like a real self-esteem thing like if i reach out to someone twice and they don't answer me i'm that doesn't help me if that just has me like stewing in my head and especially if i've said something vulnerable and there's no answer right so i'd just be like not saying the vulnerable thing be a text and just saying the like can we take this to a different medium at some point, well, like, doesn't feel as you're not going to sit there all day being like, I can't believe I said that. And then now I'm thinking about like, was I too much? Was I not enough? Because I didn't get the answer yet. Or even in the 20, let's say they do respond, but it takes them 20 minutes an hour. That whole hour, you're not like able for me anyway. I wouldn't be able to be like thinking about other things. No, I agree. I think the one benefit,

perhaps, of the second text is giving you the green light to say, like, I, put in my due effort here and there's nothing else I can do. Like I'm not going to triple text. I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to harass this person. So I like your strategy first. Phone call. Ask for a phone call. I agree with that. Second choice, if you're going to send the double text, at least you can give yourself that reassurance of like, I tried. This person definitely doesn't seem interested in putting any effort into this relationship so now I can feel settled in knowing that like this isn't you know there's nothing more I can do right no I agree with that especially if a lot of people don't like faking on the phone and I understand that like that is my preferred method of communication but I know

a lot of people don't like that so I think that your way is definitely like a great a good alternative in saying in terms of like I've done all I can do I just know in my head at the end of that I would be like well maybe their phone broke so you're saying there's a chance yeah do you know what you don't think that would like text like maybe they're on a plane maybe they're like right right right totally obviously like those things are rarely ever the answer but I just think like the beauty of the phone is that you've trapped them for the

duration of the conversation right and you know what I think also about that is the beauty of the phone like they have to be their real self for the 10 minutes but I think the other piece here is that for someone who says they're going through something, they're overwhelmed or they're burnt out, asking for the phone call is kind of another way of saying, like, I care about you. Like, I want to make time to like see what's up with you. I want to make time to make sure that like you're okay and to make sure that, you know, like, I know you're going through something and I want to give you like a little bit more than what I give other people who

or I'm just texting about their regular life. So I think asking for a phone call is like a show of care. You know, like if somebody texts you that something bad happens or whatever, like you'll call them right away to be like, this is not a text thing. Like I want to connect with you on this. I want to hear your voice.

I want to talk to you. So I think the phone call here too is another way of saying like, I want to be there for you more than just through texting. So I think that could hopefully help her friend. open up a little bit and include her. I mean, that's what, that's how friendships survive. You go through things and they don't have to necessarily be the same thing. Like you're going through a breakup and they're going through a breakup. Like they could be going through, God forbid, a death of a parent. That's not something that you're familiar with. But your friendships, the ones that are strong are the

ones where you're going to include those people in your struggles. You're going to open up. We always talk about vulnerability. So in order for this friendship, I think, to stay strong, you're both going to have to be vulnerable. And she's going to have to talk to you a little bit more about what she's going through and you're going to have to be there for her. And then you're on her real team, not just the team of people that you keep in the background, but the team of people that really know what you're going through and that are going to really be there for you. And there's only so many people you can have on that team, really. But if you want to be one of them, you're going to have to break down those walls. Yeah. And I think the phone call, again, even if it doesn't go well,

even if she's like, seems disinterested or again, or doesn't even agree to it, then you could say, okay, I'm not going to invest in this friendship anymore. Right. And like, again, I think that can manifest is like I'm really angry at this person. But it can also just be like, I'm not going to waste my time thinking about if they like me or not. I'm going to foster friendships with other people that I feel like will are more interested in getting to that vulnerable real place. And if this person comes around at a later point, right, maybe it's not your time. And again, coming back to like having some patience with it, like, you know, I said in the beginning, but reaching out by phone, I think is a great idea. And then have some patience. If she's someone that's important

in your life. Maybe she's going through something and she'll come back at a later date. I don't think there's ever any benefit in like, unless you're really, you know, feel like you're being mistreated or disrespect it or something terrible is going on to say I'm never speaking to this person ever again, or the friendship is over. So I think it could be an ebb and flow of friendships, which is possible. But before you put it on the flow side of things, I would take your advice, Jordana, and just say, hey, let's hop on the phone for 10 minutes. Agreed. All right. Thanks again to our presenting sponsor, Essie.

Essie has made it their mission to help combat loneliness with the power of colors and connection through their hands all in initiative. Naomi, as sisters, we've bonded over our love of Essie nail polish. We've talked many times about how doing our nails together, especially like me with your daughters, my nieces, or just like brings the whole family together and it's such a great activity. And Essie has the best colors out there. If you're feeling lonely, you're not alone and Essie is here to help. For more information, visit sse.com slash colors and connection. That's ess.I.e.com slash colors dash and dash connection to find out more. Should we get into our ethical email of the day? I thought this one was an interesting one. Yeah, this is good. Let's read this. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Love the pod. I'll get right to it.

I'm having a dilemma with my sister and unsure how to approach the situation. My sister is 33 and has been with her partner, 32-year-old female, for two years now. This is her first serious relationship, and from what I can tell, they have a great relationship and love each other very much. They got engaged Christmas of 2021 and planned to have a long engagement. For most of their relationship, they talked about how they were happily child-free and didn't see having kids in their future. However, in January, they began fostering a nine-year-old boy that they've totally fallen in

love with. They want to adopt him and his two twin five-year-old brothers. Because they both want to adopt the kids, they're now planning to get married in early October 2022. Here's my dilemma. I don't think they can afford to adopt all three kids. My sister is a teacher and her partner has jumped from job to job having four to five jobs in the two years I've known her. Her partner quit her job to be a stay-at-home mom for the summer, even though my sister doesn't work during the summer so she has time off to be home. So they've been living on one income for the past three or four months. My sister has also said things to me like,

I'm not sure I can buy new shoes this year since T, the child, needs some, or our grocery bill has gone up so much just from feeding him. My sister's a pretty impulsive person and has always been bad with money, spending more than she's earning, needing to borrow money from my parents, etc. And like I mentioned before, they talked explicitly about not wanting kids for most of their relationship. She has such a big heart and I know she thinks adopting these three boys is what's best for them, but I'm worried it won't be the best in the long run. This is a huge decision and you can't just change your mind if things get difficult.

I'm scared to broach this topic with her because she might take it badly, but the whole situation has given me a lot of anxiety since she told me. So my big question is, do I say something? I think at this point they've made up their minds and if I bring it up, it will make it seem like I'm not supportive of them and could hurt my relationship with my sister. Should I talk to my sister about how I'm feeling? we're not a feelings family. So these conversations are often difficult for us,

and I wouldn't even know how to bring it up. Am I justified in feeling this way? I feel like my sister and her partner are making decisions with their feelings rather than thinking about all the consequences, and that's what scares me so much. Any guidance you can provide would be much appreciated. Thanks for all you do, stressed sister batch.

This is a good question. It's a great question. Because I think obviously this is a very specific circumstance, but we have a lot of listeners. I think this comes up, especially with family, where someone's decisions are not decisions that you would make and that everyone has their own judgment about what people should and shouldn't do. And it's kind of like, where is it your place to say something?

Or is it none of your business and not your life? And so, like, you don't get to judge or implant yourself in that person's decisions. I personally find that to be a very, thin line. Totally. What do you think? You know, and you're right, this does correlate to other situations. Like if you don't like your sister's boyfriend or, you know, something like that where my

feeling is if you feel strongly and it's someone you're very close to, I think you should express yourself so that you know that you've said it so that if it happens, there's not this feeling of regret of like I should have said something. But I think the way you say it matters, I think you have to say like, These are my concerns. I feel scared for you. I feel worried about you. But if you decide to do it, if this is how you feel, if you decide to do it, I can be there for you in X, Y, and Z way, you know, whatever that, whatever you're willing to do to be supportive. So you're showing that, like, if they choose to do it, you're not going to remove your love unless you are, if it's a different

situation where you really feel like it's, you know, something that you cannot be supportive of. I don't know that she's at that point in this particular situation. But I think, it's good to say something so you know you've said it. But then, yeah, then at that point, you have to kind of step back, let them make their choice and decide what your boundaries are in terms of how much support you can provide. Right. What if her sister feels like offended that she's implying that? But I guess she said things like her to that. I think then you have like the evidence for why you might feel this way. If the sister has said, like, I don't feel like we can afford groceries or something like that. Right. Then it also can feel.

like it's not like you just randomly deciding that she's incapable of handling this and more like the comments you've made to me about that make me a little bit worried about you in that way and then it becomes like about the things she said and not about you thinking she's irresponsible or spontaneous or something like that and yeah so I think bringing that up and just saying this this is my doing it in a loving way like I love you so much I want you to have a happy life I don't want you to be stressed out like you know, I just want you to be able to enjoy your life and I'm afraid that this is going to be too much. You know, I don't know if she's going to get really offended when, if you express it like that, then there's a bigger thing going on that maybe she is having her doubts and, you know,

that might be something for her to figure out. But I think if you say it in a kind, loving way, it's almost easier than if you say, like, I don't like your boyfriend, you know, like you shouldn't marry him because there's like nothing, you know, that's not, that's like offensive, I guess. This is just sort of, these are kids, kids are work. It's not that they're not good kids. It's not that I don't like your kids. It's, you know, for anyone. Even if you were making a ton of money,

suddenly having three kids that didn't exist that are, you know, older, that eat more, that, you know, have activities and all sorts of expensive things would be a lot for anyone. So it's not even like she's saying, you guys are so unstable. This is a big thing for anybody, even if you're super stable. Yeah. And again, on that note, one thing I wouldn't bring up is the fiancé is like work habits, because I don't think that is necessarily like any of your business.

And I think that's where it could start to get weird. I would bring up the concern as it stands and let her, like, all you're doing is like putting the seed in her brain that maybe she should just do a double take think on this. And if she comes to that decision or she comes to that realization that maybe her fiance, their plan for her being a stay at home mom isn't working for them, leave that part to her. Right. I agree with you.

you should make it fully about just like the comments that your sister has made and just the idea of of how hard it would be to raise the kids. But I wouldn't bring up any of the, because those sound a little judgmental. Your work history, you've had 45 jobs in the last year. Right. I wouldn't bring up any of that stuff. She knows what her work history is. She knows what her fiance's work history is. She doesn't need you to bring that up. But on the flip side, I think for this writer to also see it from the other side. So I think, think sometimes necessity is the mother of invention. Like they've obviously been able to live with the amount of money that they're making. And I have a feeling, hopefully, that once the three

kids come into the picture and they literally need to put food on the table, she will start working more, be more consistent because they have to. You know, maybe right now she's choosing not to have shoes. That's her choice. If she chooses not to have shoes, but if she chooses, you know, if it gets to the point where she can't eat or she can't, you know, pay the rent, then I'm hoping that the fiancé will step up and kind of do what it takes to make it work. And sometimes some people need a push to kind of get their lives together. Yeah. And if you truly love her and you respect your, I think that's another big thing of it.

It's like, I think when we try to control people, and I've seen this and heard this before, it's like if you try to control people, it means you don't really respect them. Yes. Enough to trust that they're making like the best. decisions for yourself. So I agree. I don't think there's anything wrong with stating your concerns in a loving way. But after that, you kind of just got to trust that your sister can handle her own life and whatever challenges come her way. She'll figure it out. And that's part of respecting someone is respecting their ability to handle their own life. Totally. And I agree. I think maybe looking a

little bit deeper and maybe talking to her sister and understanding why they're doing it. You know, I think, so what is the fear for this person? The fear maybe is for her sister. The fear maybe is for the children, right, that they're going to take these children in and they won't be supported the way that they need to. But ultimately, probably living with two parents who really love each other, who are both committed and both really wanting to do this, I would assume, is going to be better off for these kids than staying in the foster care system for another year looking for parents. You know, maybe they won't have new shoes or they won't be able to get the best things, but they're going to be in a loving home and with people that love each other and love them and

really want them. So I think ultimately it probably, if the alternative is leaving the kids in the foster care system and you're afraid for the kids, and maybe this is, you know, really, I think love is, yeah, being in a home with two people or even one person or whatever that chooses you and loves you and wants you, obviously they need shelter and food. But other than that, that's really probably the most important thing for these kids rather than keeping them in the foster care system for a longer period of time. So, you know, just hearing her sister out and what's her perspective and the idea that like you said, maybe she's not respecting that the sister might be really an amazing person and willing to sacrifice financially to help save the lives of these three kids.

So just being able to respect her opinion and her feelings on that might help her feel a little bit better and just, you know, not just coming into the conversation with like the agenda of stopping it, but also the agenda of like hearing what she has to say and why this is so important to her might help her feel better about it. And I thought the one last thing to touch on in this email, which I thought, I was wondering if you had any tips on because she says, and I've heard. this before we are not a feelings family so these conversations are difficult and I can see I feel like that's almost the hardest part in this scenario because if you have a kind of relationship where you're

always talking about your feelings and I feel like our family kind of does does right ways but if you don't have that I can see how it would be like this is going to seem kind of random like suddenly you know what I mean I have this concern where our family doesn't have a lot of practice with just saying I love you so much and I can care about you and I don't want you to like see this. I could see how it would come off harsher just because that's sort of maybe that's the way the family interacts with each other or they're just not used to being like super deep divey into their feelings and how everything is affecting them. Totally.

Yeah. It is tough. I think sometimes there has to be someone who's kind of the catalyst. And just because you haven't always been like that doesn't mean especially within the relationship of like two sisters. Like you might not be able to change the entire. higher dynamic. But sometimes if there's a relationship between two sisters that hasn't been very feelingsy, you can be the catalyst for that and just kind of do it, you know, maybe in small

doses, maybe it's not going to be like a two hour deep dive right off the bat. It could just be 10 minutes of, I'm going to tell you how I feel. Or maybe she wants to start off with some other feelings conversations before she digs into this one, you know, like even just starting off by saying, I really admire the fact that you guys want to do this, like, and just having the first conversation be, tell me about that. You know, like, what are you feeling about this? What's driving you? Where it's like she can start, have a pre-conversation that's like opening up in a positive way about this. And then maybe like a few days later, a week later, if she still feels the need that this is really something that she needs to say, she can have the follow-up conversation where she's already kind of dipped their toes in the water with something that feels like, just tell me, I want to know your feelings. And maybe that might be a good opener versus jumping in their first feelings conversation that they've ever had with a criticism, you know? Totally. Because I think also what that does is that establish, if you start with a negative thing, then it establishes all feelings conversations to be this like, all right,

what did I do? Kind of thing. Which happens a lot with people are not super touchy or lovey. I think that there's conversations that only had when something negative happens. And then you're like, and this happens, I think, in relationships because Mike is a lot less into talking about his feelings than me. So I think that's a really helpful tip for that too. It's like make a lot of them just like positive, nice conversations. So it doesn't feel like, okay, when we're sitting down for me to tell you how I feel, it's because you've done something wrong or you've done something that bothered me. And I think by doing that, the person feels much more comfortable opening up if they feel like it's safe and you feel like you love. them and that's sort of like most of the conversations.

Right. And then a handful or about an issue you might be having or something you want. Creating a positive association with those intimate conversations. Yeah. So she, you know, she may need to do a few of those perhaps, like, you know, kind of leading up to this just to might be a little late because there's probably a time situation here for her to reestablish a whole, you know, dynamic about that. but I do think, you know, in the future going forward, it's a good tip.

And even for this, to do something where the first one is just being curious about her sister's feelings and her perspective, leave it at that. And then follow up if you still feel like you need to with something that's like, well, I feel nervous or concerned. Okay. I think that's helpful. Yeah, but this is a good question. I wonder how this is going to turn out.

But I, you know, I understand her concern, but I also really respect the sister and her Yeah, seems like a very nice thing to do. Totally. You have an update. Send it in. All right. Are you ready to play triggered? I am ready to play triggered.

For context, I work out before work around 6 a.m. Typically, this is when the majority of the elderly population also seems to be working out, L.O.L. I'm used to having old men give me compliments about how much weight I'm lifting, how hard I'm working out, etc. I know they're just trying to be friendly and start conversation. And overall, they mean well. However, I was surprised the other day when an older gentleman asked me how much

I'm not sure why he thought this was an acceptable conversation starter. Sometimes I will wear gym outfits where my stomach is slightly showing. So I'm not sure if he was pondering this thought in his head or what. But I feel like even back in his day, this was a rude question to ask a woman, no matter what the context is. I ended up telling him and then walked off. But as someone who has struggled a bit with weight and body image, comments like these sometimes will still feel triggering to me. So ladies, what do you think? Should I be triggered by this grandpa or just brush it off because he's old and doesn't know better?

a body positive betch. Yeah, this isn't cool. Nobody wants, it's intrusive. Even if you ask somebody, you know, how old are you? Or even if you ask somebody, you know, personally question. Yeah, any personal question from a total random stranger, I could see this being very triggering.

So I get why she didn't like this. My follow up is, I bet what he was trying to say was like, you look super strong, you know? I think it's funny because you assume that it means that you don't look good or that you look fat or that he's trying to apply something negative. But strong women weigh a lot. When you have strength, you have muscle and you weigh a lot. So like weighing more isn't necessarily a bad thing. If she's going to the gym regularly and everyone's commenting on how much weight she's lifting, then she probably looks like, you know, big and strong, which isn't a bad thing. That being said,

I think anyone would probably be triggered by that. Yeah, I agree. I think this is much more about, I also think if this older man is asking you this, this is something that he does frequently. Yes. He probably asks a lot of personal inappropriate questions very frequently. I doubt this is,

he was just so compelled by the way that you look, that you're the first person that he's ever done this to. Totally. So I would just think about it as like, imagine you knew him and imagine you saw him asking these kinds of questions to people all the time. You would probably take it less personally. And you don't know him.

So you have to just assume it's about you. When in the majority of these scenarios, if someone says something inappropriate or rude, you're usually not the only one. Right. So it's usually more about them than it is about you. So I would also think about it like that. But yeah, this would be, I can see why this would make you think like, what about me is making him ask you that.

Yes. Yes. So I would give it like a seven. Yeah. I think it's pretty triggering. And you're right. And I don't know how elderly he is, but there are brain changes that happen when people get older, the early signs of dementia sometimes are like having like impulse control

and, you know, your frontal lobe changes so you don't have as much of a filter, you know, which is why there's like the dirty old man thing that's like a phrase because sometimes you get to a point where you, you know, your brain changes and you have a hard time filtering out thought. So I think you're right. I don't think this is something unique to her. I think he probably just doesn't have a filter. But yeah, I can see what this is. triggering. Yeah. But the way you just said it almost like it makes you feel like if you think about it like that, almost more compassion for the person of like, oh, this is kind of sad. This person can't help themselves. Right. That actually takes away all of the sting of it. If you're just kind of like, it's kind of sad,

this person can't control what they're asking. Right. I do think sometimes when it comes to older, but I'm sure everyone, I could think of seven examples of older people who have said things where I'm like, I cannot believe that person just said that. Like, that's kind of like, that seems so crazy. But sometimes it is as a result of like, I'm not saying it's like dementia, like it's going to be necessarily Alzheimer's, but there are some brain changes that might, you know, cause personality changes in that regard. So that could be a thing too.

I like that just for all the triggers things almost. It's like what? I think if you think about what's the worst, what's like the saddest reason that the person could have said the thing that was really triggering to you. What's the saddest explanation? Because usually we go for like this person is great or is all their shit together and it's just, you know, it's about me. If you think about like, what is the saddest explanation for why this person said this hurtful, mean, the thing? And most of the time there is if somebody's, I mean, in this case, maybe it's dementia, but in another case, maybe it's, they're just, you know, hurt people, hurt people or they're

trying to project something onto somebody else or they're really insecure. And most of the time when people are mean, it really is because they are feeling, you know, negatively about themselves and just trying to distract misery loves company. Yeah. And when you think about that, it really like changes the story of like how much anger you feel and you can just kind of feel almost like that's the worst thing that you could do to someone who's trying to be mean to you is just feel sorry for them. Right. If you're thinking about the best way to get revenge, it's to feel bad for them like right to yell at them. Totally. All right. Let's do another. one. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana, male listener, and I love the pod. Great. I like to hear from

male listeners every now and them. My wife, dog and I are spending August in our home state of California because Texas is too hot. I hear you. My parents asked us to come to their place first. So the day after driving 13 hours to Tucson, we drove seven more hours and got to San Diego around 5 p.m. When we got to the house, no one was home. My fan was away for a doctor's appointment in Los Angeles, and they wouldn't be home for three hours, and there wasn't a key hidden. We weren't giving constant road trip updates, but they knew we had made it to Tucson, so we were in striking distance. I was ready to say, F it, and just go to my wife's parents' place another 90 minutes north,

but we were tired, so we found a dog-friendly brewery that had salads after eating road trip crap for two days. I get having appointments, but was frustrated. We weren't kept in the loop, so I expressed as much, and the response was, well, whatever, it happened and you're here now. No apology. How triggered can I be? That's pretty triggering. I would be very irritated. Yeah, this really sucks. This is, you know, this makes you feel very like that like they were not excited about you coming. They didn't make any arrangements. It was like a side thought that you were going to show up after, you know,

it sounds like almost a 20 hour drive or whatever it is. And it's just kind of like the way that that feeling coupled with the irritation of I've been in the car for 13. hours and I just don't want to do this. Totally. Like even if they were apologizing, you'd probably still feel really irritated. Yeah. So it's like the physical irritation of being just tired and wanting to. Right.

I wanted to just get in a house and sit on a couch and, you know, not have to go to a restaurant after all this time again. But yeah, so this is pretty triggering. I think, I think this is a thing where a lot of people maybe can relate, like you're coming home for the holidays or this or that. and your family isn't prioritizing or doesn't seem super excited about you coming back and just not being on the same page about how important it is or like the fact that you're putting a lot of effort in to arriving someplace.

Didn't you get left at like volleyball camp or something? No one, no one picked you up. I did. I went to volleyball camp in Rhode Island. I was probably, I don't know, 14 or 15. And it was like pickup day and I'm standing outside with everybody else. Like, of course, I'm getting picked up. And, like, everyone gets picked up.

It was probably two and a half, three hours away from home. And I was just, like, nobody came. Yeah. Yeah. And the people that, you know, that was before cell phones. So, like, they went into the office and called my parents from the landline. And they were like, oh, my God. Like, that's today?

That's today. So it was an exercise and independence. I ended up, I think, taking a train back, which. was, you know, it was probably scary, but fun and like an adventure at the time. Do you remember feeling irritated or sad? I think I was probably sad more than irritated. I think I probably felt sad and just anxious about like trying to figure out how it was going to get back. Right. And embarrassed, I think too. Like, I don't know if this is a thing with like his wife is there and like his family's just not excited and they're not waiting. Right. And then you're now

the one having to sort of deal with like handling the two people's disappointment and you know what I mean like her disappointment in what's going on without being like yeah my family sucks but also that's another part of it yeah yeah so this actually makes me think of something else which I don't know what your thoughts are we always talk about like picking someone up from the airport like if someone's coming to visit you is it like if they're coming to visit I'm picking them up or is it like they it's no big deal. They'll take an Uber. I can get lunch ready for them when they get here. What's your thoughts on like if someone's coming to visit picking them up? Well, you don't have a car. I don't have a car. And I live in Manhattan. So it's a I never,

that's never and no one really visits us. But because we don't have like a house. But I feel like personally, I prefer to take an Uber at the airport just because I'd rather, I feel like it's faster. Like, and then you don't have to wait for the person to come. And then if they're late, it's almost like that. It's like the person is late to picking up the airport. I have to be like, they're like, I'd rather, I could have just taken an Uber. Right. When I prefer to take that out of it and just take the Uber and I'm like on my own time. Low expectations. Right. Keep you happy. Yes. But if someone, I mean, I guess it depends on the person, their financial situation. I think I was sure someone who like, if you had someone visiting who was, that was a big expense for them to take an Uber,

I think they would probably appreciate it a lot more. It'd be like very exciting. for them or something much nicer. I think it really depends on the person and the gesture. But what do you think this guy should do about the fact that his parents were kind of just like, well, we're here now. Like, don't get over it. I feel like that's an annoying thing when someone does something annoying and they're just kind of like, well, it is what it is.

Totally. No apology. No, not even acknowledgement. I mean, look, what else is he going to do? He brought it up. I mean, he could, I guess, bring it up again. Or else you can kind of say like, no. next time we come, maybe we'll go to her parents first and maybe we'll say, hey, we're here and

wherever her parents live. And if you want to come visit us, you can come visit us, like not putting yourself in a position like this again where you can be disappointed or injured, like just kind of making a note of like, this is how they handle this type of thing. If he's already brought it up, I don't know if you want to keep harping on it necessarily, but just, you know, setting boundaries to the point where you're not continuously getting disappointed and hurt. If this is something, it sounds like what they're saying is, this is not a big deal. This could probably happen again. Right. That's, you know, like we're not even, it's not like they're saying, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. And you can, you know, say,

wow, they're really aware of this. They will not let this happen again. It sounds like this exact thing could probably happen again next summer. So you may just want to protect yourself from that. Right. In this case, I can understand if he wasn't giving updates, I could sort of understand the idea that maybe they didn't have no idea when he was coming. So. Right. He did. say they were within seven hours of striking distance. It's kind of, it's not like they said they were, you know, an hour away. So yeah, I give them a little bit of a pass on that. Seven hours is a big window. Right. That's what I'm saying. I could see why it'd be annoying. I think you could say, I understand that we didn't really give you. And you could take, I think,

address it maybe one more time while taking ownership of the part that you had and saying, I understand we weren't really giving you updates, but it felt a little bit like a little bit of let down when we got there and no one was there and no one really seemed to care. that they weren't there or care that we like were tired from this trip and would have wanted or like you could have at least left a key and I don't know it just made me feel like you weren't that excited for us to be there and then I agree if they don't really care after that then you can change your actions right and even saying that much saying look it seems like you don't are not really acknowledging how hurtful this was so if this is the type of thing that's going to happen again because you don't

think it's a big deal, then, you know, we're going to prevent this, you know, putting ourselves in this situation again in the future. Yeah, all about expectations, like you said before. All right. Let's do one more. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I've recently found myself triggered by a friend in hoping for your advice. Ironically, this is the friend who actually pushed me to go to therapy. She had some concerning statements lately regarding her own mental health. She admitted that she struggles with obsessive thoughts, restrictive eating and overexercising. She's constantly seeking approval from friends and romantic relationships in unhealthy ways. While she is currently in therapy, she is not telling her therapist the extent of her issues

regarding what I believe to be undiagnosed OCD. I've reached a breaking point and finally told her I think she needs to seek a form of therapy specific to OCD and potentially look into medication. I personally have been off and on medication since high school for my own anxiety and obsessive thoughts, which changed my life for the better, which she knows. Imagine my surprise when she tells me she would never consider an everyday medication Am I wrong to be triggered? Not only do I listen to her every anxiety as if I am her therapist,

but I've actually had to deal with the stigmas of using medication for mental health for years. I slightly went off on her and told her that it's a very rude thing to say to someone who has taken that type of medicine, and she is reinforcing the stigma that mental health should be a silent struggle. Sincerely, Prozac prescribing betch. Yeah, I love this triggered question because I do think the stigma around taking steps, specifically medication for mental health. issues is something that needs to be addressed. You know, the idea that, you know, I think it brings up this idea that there's something wrong with you and that that's something to be ashamed of.

My biggest thing with mental health. And this is kind of like the, you know, one of the most important concepts for people to understand is that the shame that you feel that there's something wrong with you will wreak way more havoc in your life than the actual thing that is wrong with you. So like feeling ashamed of having a mental illness and, you know, creating behaviors to defend against that or creating behaviors that are going to create this fake image that you have to project to pretend that that's not the case are going to create interpersonal issues that you might not have had otherwise. They're going to create self-esteem issues that are just going to wreak all sorts of havoc on your life versus just owning. I have obsessed. I have obsessed.

obsessive thoughts. I have O.C. You don't even have to put a diagnosis on it. I'm struggling. Whatever it is, I have a tendency towards depression or anxiety. If you can own that and take care of it, your life is going to end up being much better than if you live in shame and denial. And shame is the number one emotion that creates the most dysfunction in your life when you are living in shame, substance abuse, poor interpersonal relationships, aggressiveness. So this is a big deal. And I'm I'm glad that she asked this because I do think that this type of stigma can create a lot of worse problems than taking the medication itself. Right.

And she shouldn't let this friend's feelings about medication. I mean, it's funny because we come from a house where I don't, I've never felt any stigma about medication, anything, maybe overmedicated. But so I don't, I guess coming from a place where I don't understand like I'm not as familiar with feeling a stigma. like I don't feel that at all. There's nothing someone could say to me to make me feel like there would be.

I'm kind of like, how sad for her friend. Almost like we were talking about in the first triggered scenario. I'm like how sad for this person that they are, you know, they're letting these kind of false feelings about medication or they're feeling

that they have to project a certain image and it's stopping them from getting the help they need. Like I would be less angry and more like, oh, that's like sad for this person. Totally. And I think you can, when she takes this medication, you know, she can feel confident if she's feeling shaken by it or like there's, you know, something wrong with her. Every single day, you are doing something to improve your life, to improve your relationships. You're taking this pill that you're taking care of yourself, that you're taking care of the people around you. Because it really is, like she said that she's having, you know, lots of conversations, that she's being her therapist. So taking care of yourself in this way, if you're prescribed medication, taking it properly and regularly is a way of taking care of yourself and taking care of other people. So yeah, I think she can turn it around and see it as something that is a strength that she has, that this person is not at a point where she's able to take care of herself in the same way,

that she would rather, you know, feel like pretend there's nothing wrong with her than, you know, have to take an everyday medication. And you're right. That is kind of, you know, sad for her that she's not able to get to the point where she can get the help that she needs and fall through with it. Right. And for her to be like, well, I can't relate to this exact scenario. I can relate to someone negging something that you do. Right. And I can see why that would be like you're like, oh, I didn't realize you were judging me this whole time for whatever the thing is that I was doing. Right. That's, that too. Yeah. Yeah. I think this can lead you to think, oh, you think you're better than me because you don't do this stuff. But at the end of the day, what does that do for her?

Even if that's true, what is that, how is that working out for her? Totally. And the funny thing is like, I'm sure this friend maybe drinks alcohol with regularity or, you know, smokes marijuana or, you know, eats unhealthy food or does any of these things that people do to regulate their emotions, you know, but for some reason, this thing is something that she's like, I would never consider an everyday medication, but you would consider lots of other things that are probably, you know, worse, right, not the best way of coping. Yeah. So, yeah, I could see why this is triggering because I think there really is still a cultural stigma

against taking psychiatric medication. Or therapy or anything. Right. Some people have that about therapy and themselves. Like she encouraged you to go to therapy, but some people, maybe you could look at it like that too. like some people have a stigma about that. Totally.

And I think that's, that is getting better. And the one that's lagging a little bit is the idea of like some people do benefit from, you know, taking medication. Like I said earlier in the episode, I think sometimes you can take it for a little while as like a like a reset for

your brain to get detached from obsessive thoughts, whether they're obsessive thoughts about feeling depressed or low self-esteem or obsessive thoughts about anxiety provoking. things or a breakup or whatever it is and you could take it, shift your brain chemistry and then move on with your life versus the alternative, which is never take it and just constantly, you know, live in a mental health struggle just to stand on ceremony and say that you're strong enough to do it without medication. Well, if you're suffering. You don't have to suffer. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I think this is triggering. But I hope she can, like you said, turn it around and say,

I kind of feel bad for you that, you know, your ego. and your image is so wrapped up that you're willing to suffer so you don't have to take an everyday medication. Yeah. And if you think about it like that, again, you feel almost compassion for the person instead of anger. But I would still, I would give it a six personally. Maybe she would probably give it a little higher, but. Yeah. Well, like you said, you personally don't have this. Right. It's not triggering to me. Not triggering. But I can see why. There are so many people that really come from families and cultures and little bubbles. I mean, I've treated people that are in law enforcement and people that are, you know, in certain professions, even medical professions where it's, you know, really looked down upon whether it's there, any type of mental health care, you know, is really looked down upon, whether it's just therapy or medication or any of that. It means like there's something wrong with you and like, you know, you're not to be trusted or something. So it's, I'm hoping that as a society we're coming out of that. I think we are. But I could see why this, I would give it higher. than a six for sure.

Fair? I mean, you probably talk to a lot more people with a lot more opinions. I'm in my own bubble. So totally. It makes sense. Well,

that's it for today. Proud of us. Yeah. I thought we had some good stuff here. I hope we help some people. If anyone has updates, really, I would love to hear any updates. So send those in if we've covered any of your questions.

You want to let us know what's going on. Send them in oversharing atpetchus.com, oversharingabets.com. And if you like the show, give us a little review. Go to Apple. Go to Spotify. give us a review, tell us why you love the show, and give us all the stars.

All right, that's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales-Picco, and Rebecca Souselma. Editing by Missileo Perez. Yes, Booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.