Oversharing - How To Get Your Partner To Connect On A Deeper Level

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

Today on Oversharing Dr. Naomi shares her experience with the mind/body connection during her ski trip with Jordana. Our Overshare question comes from a Betch trying to get her husband to open up and start having difficult conversations. How do you get your partner to slow down and connect on a deeper level? Today’s Betchicist goes out to a mom wondering when the right time is to discuss plastic surgery with her children. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for a scorned fiancé impatiently awaiting couples therapy. And we’re feeling triggered by baby pictures and exes on the phone plan. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. So nice to see you again after spending a nice long weekend with you.

That was really fun. It was great to see you. It was a really fun weekend. Yeah, it was great. I've slept 13 hours last night, so I feel like... Oh, that's amazing. Caught up. Okay, good.

Because I took a red eye, so I was like on nothing. You did not sleep on the plane at all? I slept maybe like, I feel like it was like 20 minutes. Maybe it was longer. It felt like 20 minutes. And then I came home and I slept maybe like an hour or two. And then I was like, I'm not going to sleep all day and then not sleep again all night. Right.

All right. Seems like you managed it well. Yeah. It worked out. I had like a nice nothing day. How about you? How was your travel day? Really wasn't bad. It wasn't too bad. The flight was easy. Both security lines were amazing. I felt like a little, it was great coming off that trip. It was really nice. I love being in the mountains and the skiing was awesome. And I had a couple moments on that trip that

really helped me with my own mindfulness, which was great. I like when that happens and I have the space for it. Like, interesting. And I don't know if you experienced this, but like the altitude affects your body. So I noticed that like I was getting like my heart was kind of racing and I was having trouble breathing and it was a good moment to kind of be like, okay, don't let this go to your head. You know, like don't let this physical piece of because that's what happens, right? Like you feel something in your body and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, maybe I need to worry about this or maybe I need to get it. And I found myself like getting anxious about random things and then had that moment of like, oh, wait, this is starting in my body. And then my mind is just like

trying to keep up and find something. So what was like, what was the actual thing that you did when you, okay. So like take like take, like, take me through like one of those. Give me an example. Take me through one of those ones. Because I think this is helpful for the listeners at home. But it's, I feel like when people talk about this, it always sounds like a little vague. So I think if you could like be specific about how you actually did this, that would be really helpful for. Yeah. Not just me, but anyone listening. Totally. So, and this is, this is an easier one because I knew it was like the altitude. Like I knew there was some external thing that was making it hard for me to breathe and making my heart feel a little racy.

I feel like we usually know, though, like the thing that's going on, whether it's, I'm about to see my mother-in-law. And I know that she makes me, you know, right, anxious or I feel overheated. Because, you know, I've had that way, like when we were in the hot tub for too long. Yes. But sorry, go on. Totally. Yeah. So if you can, the first step, and this is why the consciousness coming to consciousness

is so important because the first step is just to kind of step back behind your experience and witness it. So you're kind of like, oh, I'm having trouble breathing. Like what does that feel like? And then you just like pay attention to a breath. And you're like, feels like I can't fully, you know, inflate my lungs. or I feel I can actually feel my heart beating in my chest. I think we've all had that experience where like right now you probably can't feel your heart

because you're calm, you're fine. But there are moments where you're like, oh, well, I can feel my heart like beating through my chest. And then you just, like what I would do is I would take my mind and I would know, like, actually I would go the first place that I would be like maybe I don't know how to ski anymore. I haven't skied in like probably almost 10 years. And I'd be like maybe this is a stupid idea. I'm too old for this. Maybe I shouldn't really be doing this. Like I haven't, and I would become conscious of

that like thought process. Okay. And just kind of be like, this is in my body. And then I would come back and kind of be like, okay, take a nice long, slow deep breath, recognize what I am currently feeling physically and almost like put up a wall to the like becoming conscious that those thoughts are just because my body is feeling activated. it. So then I'd be like, just kind of remind myself, like, don't even, I'm not even going to go there. I'm going to be fine. The only reason I'm thinking like this is because my body is telling my mind to seek out danger in my environment. I don't know if that helps explain it. I think it definitely does. You think you would have had those feelings or those thoughts, even if you were, it didn't feel like an altitude sickness, would you have had those fears? I don't think so. It was just coming from that. Okay. I think what happens, in a lot of these situations is if it is something like this. And that's why like I always talk about like anxiety. That's a real thing because you really do feel like a little nauseous or you do have a little headache.

And then your body's kind of like, this doesn't feel good. What's wrong? And then you start being like, well, I text the guy and he didn't text me back or did I say something stupid at dinner? And like you start kind of running through your head to try to seek out something in the environment to match what you're feeling in your body. Like you kind of want your body wants if you're feeling. Yes. Your body. That's exactly it. Your body wants like a storyline to match up with what you're, what it's feeling physically, which is why if you're like lying on the on a beach,

relaxing, a lot of times you're not like going to think of the most anxiety provoking thing. Some people just do have generalized anxiety where their body constantly is feeling that way. It's a different thing. But if you notice. it's a good way to practice when you notice like, okay, I'm hungover. I feel nauseous. I have a headache. My mind's going to want a story to match up with the shitty way that I feel. So it's going to come up with some shitty story to like feel. Right. Which you then might believe after the hangover goes away. Yes. So just noticing that is like half the battle. I like that. Don't let the story explain something that's not true. Yes. Almost. Right. It's like creating something that doesn't have to exist. it goes like in a vicious cycle because then sometimes you get you know all worked up about the story

then your body does start to get you know sometimes the story can come first and then your body reacts to the story and then if you can calm your body then you can kind of watch how the story can you can release the story once your body is cal or a little bit more quickly right because then like you said it feels like you're observing it as someone else and instead of being like deeply in it. And usually like, again, like if you told the story, if you had that like hangover anxiety and you told that story, the thing that you're having anxiety about to someone else,

they'd be like it really doesn't sound like that big of a deal or like, that doesn't sound like you did anything bad. Yes. Which is again, because they're looking at it as not someone who's like in your physical body reacting to it. They're looking at it more logically. Yes.

And that's exactly what I experienced over the weekend. I was like everything felt like so panicky. Everything felt like such a big deal, you know? And then I was like, no, it's my body's making me think this is a big deal because it's like fight or flight reaction was happening. Well, you're a great skier. Oh, thanks. Yeah, I didn't follow it all. Best in the group.

Oh, thanks. No, it was really fun. It's been a while. It's kind of like riding a bike, I think. A little bit, yeah, for sure. Once you know how to do it. It's scary. But anyway, great trip. Glad I saw you.

Yeah, it was really nice to see you. All right. We have some emails. If you guys want to leave us a voicemail, we have a voicemail. Also in this episode, you can call 646-363, 663, 6294, leave us voicemail. But I'll get into our first email, which again, oversharingapeches.com, oversharingabetches.com. I'll read it. Dear Dr. Naomi and Jordana, I've been with my husband for 10 years. We have two kids together and from the outside looking in, everything is great. but our relationship really lacks depth and communication. It has always been this way. My husband

comes from a family that's not really affectionate or emotional while I'm extremely emotional and I don't hesitate to tell anyone how I'm feeling. We would get in the same fights over and over again throughout the 10 years about me not feeling cared for enough, feeling like he didn't take me out enough, etc. He would express that he appeals everything is great and that I was just nitpicking things out. He told me multiple times that he thinks we should do couples counseling or just in general would say, have you thought about going to counseling? I did begin counseling recently myself to try and sort things out. My counselor suggested so many useful tips for me alone, but also for my husband and I to try. One of these things she suggested was having weekly check-ins where my husband and I set aside time to talk to

each other. She gave us a list of questions that would help us work on getting a little closer to each other. When I first suggested this, my husband seemed open to the idea. After a few times of having these talks, it kind of opened the door to me feeling comfortable. was starting other deeper talks throughout the week about how I was feeling or just general discussions. A few days ago, though, I tried talking to my husband about his new job and what it meant for our family and the changes we would be making in our relationship because of this job and ways we can preemptively try to avoid relationship issues. He is a new restaurant owner. He owned one in the past and I know the long hours deeply affected us at that time. His response to this was saying, are we going to have

to have talks like this every night? I felt so offended in that moment and just overall hurt. Well, I think that having these talks is only going to make our relationship deeper and more satisfactory. He acts like this is all a big burden to him. We were laying in bed, mindlessly scrolling on our phones, so I know there was nothing important he was doing. I just feel like I'm always a bother to him when I try to have deeper, more serious conversations, but he is the one who mentioned me going to therapy in the first place. It is clear we have more serious communication issues and just differences overall, but am I justified in feeling triggered by this comment? I will continue to work on my own therapy, but I'm hesitant to try.

and involve him further after this. It makes it clear that he is content with our relationship being a, how is your day, good, how is yours type situation. But honestly, I want more than that. Do you have any advice on me moving forward? Thank you for all that you do. You help more than you know. Sincerely, let's talk about our feelings.

Don't suggest therapy unless you are ready to get what you asked for. Yes, exactly. I think a lot of people do think they're kind of like, well, you go to therapy, you figure out what's bothering you and then you'll kind of like leave me alone. Right. And stop asking all these annoying questions. But he did suggest couples therapy, which I think is a strength for them. Right.

I think the issue that's happening is she's been like holding all of this for so long that the floodgates opened and now she's probably trying to do this a little too much and it's overwhelming him versus I tell couples a lot. One of the benefits of couples therapy is just having your like structured 50 minutes a week where you're going to talk about the stuff. And then both people can, in some cases, some couples do like to talk between sessions. But for some people like this husband that feels a little overwhelmed, he can feel good knowing, okay, we have our session.

That's going to be our time. I'm not going to be caught off guard when I'm trying to chill before bed, you know, with some deep conversation that I'm not prepared to have. So I think the couples therapy might be good. or if not, therapist originally recommended, like, once a week. Like, I don't think you can overwhelm him at this point with too much. Yeah, I kind of agree with that because it does seem like he's, like, open to having those discussions, but I could also see where he's like, I don't want to talk about this all the time.

Like, I want to come home and feel like I can relax and not, you know, address our issues every night. Right. So I think it is about balance. It does seem like he was intuitive first. And then maybe he's like, well, he's probably a friend. like okay now that she wants to do this she wants to do this all the time and it's just never going to end and then there's never going to be a moment where I can just like tune out I mean part of like

part of feeling comfortable is just feeling like you can have those what how is your day conversations what's what do you want want for dinner like that's usually most of a relationship that's like most of the discussion it's not saying that should be the only thing but like there is a comfort in that you're not constantly analyzing the relationship all day long yes yes But I think, you know, there's something that she's feeling is missing. Like she starts off just saying it lacks depth and communication. So I think she really wants that to feel close to him, which I don't blame her. Like you need that.

And I think when you don't, a lot of issues that happen in relationships and we'll talk in a few minutes about like a cheating thing. But a lot of issues are because someone's not feeling emotionally connected in the relationship. One are both partners. And so I do think it's great that she's addressing this. And he seems open to it. You just have to give smaller doses. And I could see her getting offended when he doesn't want to talk about it. Now this is a moment that can go really badly if they don't, like, handle it properly.

Because the moment where she tries to bring it up, he's feeling overwhelmed. He doesn't want to talk about it. Now she's offended. Now they're going to go back to where they started. potentially, which is like she holds it in, she doesn't bring it up, she feels disconnected. You know, he's kind of like you're a ticking time bomb, like brewing with something and that makes him feel uncomfortable. So I think you just have to, I think this couple would do well with a schedule of when we're going to talk about stuff for now. And then maybe as he kind of gets more

used to opening up, then you can do it a little bit. But I do think it's respectful to say, hey, it's now a good time. I'd like to talk about, you know, some concerns that I have about your new job and how it's going to affect us. And I don't think you can get offended if he says, no, it's not a great time. I just was really looking forward to unwinding. Maybe we can talk about it and give her a time. One would be a better time.

Yeah, I like that idea. And I could see why she'd be offended. Yes. Because it feels like, oh, you're like annoying. And that all these feelings are a burden for me, which is not a good feeling. I agree with that. And if you suggested couples counseling, I would be like, all right, we can, we cannot talk about it, like, randomly. Let's do with like a few sessions and see how we, you know, we could do it there. Totally. And the other thing I think a lot of couples don't do, especially in this situation where she's like pent up with stuff that she wants to talk about is deepening the conversation, but like in a fun way, you know, like talking about moments you'd like to share together down the road. like trips you want to take together or visions for your future or one thing that's fun that is really important for couples to talk about are like rituals of connection. So just saying like, you know,

it feels really great when you come in from work and you come over and give me a big hug or things that you can kind of incorporate into your every day that make you feel connected or I loved it when you did this thing. It made me feel really great. Or even like having conversations about what you love about each other, you know, saying nice things to each other. Oh, I remember when we first met, this is what I noticed about you or you can have deep conversations that are also like loving and fun. And it doesn't just have to be like, let's prepare for all the problems and which are great conversations. Those, those need to happen. But sometimes you forget to do the part where it's like, oh, this little thing that I noticed about you today that was so cute when you did that or I

really loves how you handled this situation or something like that. That feels a little bit more like, oh, this is enjoyable. This isn't like problem solving all the time. It's not just all like things we need to fix. Yeah. I like that. Good luck. Let us know how that goes.

Yeah. All right. Let's play our voicemail for our betches this question. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I have an ethical question for you guys. So the TLDR is how do you talk about previous plastic surgery with your kids? The context is that I had a nose job when I was 17 right after I graduated high school because growing up I was teased about my nose by kids at school, my brothers, my cousins,

and this was compacted by the fact that so many people in my family had had nose jobs, including both of my parents. So growing up it was this given, like, whoa, when you get your nose job. And I don't regret it at all. I think it's one of the best things I ever did for myself. I became so much more confident after. but now that I have two kids, I've been wondering, like, at what point do you tell your kids that you have had plastic surgery? It's such a topic in the media.

Like, do you just look at Us magazine one day and say, like, oh, by the way, like, mom did that? And then what do you do if your kids also want to get plastic surgery one day? So just for context again, when I asked my parents if I could get a nose job, I think they made me appointment like the next week. And it was a little hurtful because no one ever said, like, you don't need to get a nose job. you are beautiful the way you are. They were just like, sure, here's a plastic surgeon. Let's fix that shanaz. So if my daughter wants a nose job one day, I want to know how do I assure her that she's beautiful

and that she doesn't need to change her face, but also support her in doing something that I have done. And I know that every year that passes, I feel like mainstream media is more celebrating to differences is where I grew up in the age of like Jessica Simpson is that. And it was a whole different time then. So I'm hoping that, you know, if my daughter does have my nose, she doesn't have to get a nose job. But how do I talk about what I have done and support her through what she may want to do? Anyways, thank you guys so much.

Love the podcast. It's a good question. Really good question. I think in terms of bringing it up, my initial thought is, I don't know how old her kids are. But I think I would wait until you have a moment where she's, she's saying something, you know, expressing some doubt about herself or a moment of self-consciousness. And I feel like a lot of the best teaching moments with kids are kind of like, I went through this.

I went through something similar. Here's how I handled it. Here's how I feel about my decision and kind of putting the question back on that. You know, like this is my experience. This is how I felt. Like, how are you feeling and seeing kind of where she stands? I don't know that you need to just like out of the blue bring that up. If there is a moment where, you know, her daughter expresses something like that,

she can use that as like, I know how you feel. I felt the same way too. Right. Because it seems like her feeling about her own nose job is like both. I wish someone told me I didn't need it, but I'm so glad I got it. And I actually do feel much more confident. So I have no regrets about doing it. But I wish that I didn't feel like I had to.

So it's like an interesting, I guess the way that she's processed her own is kind of of interesting because it's like what do you want for your child you want them to be happy and confident and obviously you want them to like be that way no matter what the like circumstances are but she's also saying like and which is probably what her parents felt which is why they you know it doesn't sound like they said she needed to get one but it sounds like as soon as she came to that conclusion on her own they were like oh you probably will feel much better like once you get one so we're just going to help you facilitate this immediately yes yes yes And I could see why that was upsetting for her because I think there is the one thing that she can

definitely do differently is if her daughter does express that she wants this. And this is recommended by plastic surgeons anyway when you're talking about plastic surgery with young people is like having kind of like a three month cooling off period. Where just because like some asshole at school makes fun of your nose, you don't just go in the next day and like book a surgery. So you have to kind of allow that to sink in and see if you can do some of the stuff we talk about on here. You know, like mindfulness, choosing your place of focus, seeing if you can kind of learn to love yourself. Whereas this, you know, as opposed to the second you start to feel insecure about something, you go run and change it to make yourself feel better.

Because a lot of times what happens, and it's funny, I notice this even in myself, like I had, and this is why I think plastic surgery, for some people becomes addictive and it just is something to think about, which is like I had these brown spots on my face, like sunspots, and I got like two of them removed. And then as soon as those were gone, I noticed like two others that I had never noticed before because it's like, now this part looks good. Now your mind's eye goes to like the next thing that could be more perfect. And if you don't ever really learn how to just like relax into those imperfections and see if you can use the power of your mind to refocus your attention or think about things differently, like if I just, you know, then if I go and I get the other two little ones off,

then I'm going to notice some other, then I'm going to start to notice a wrinkle that I don't like or some other. It's almost like you fix one thing and then if your mind's looking for imperfections, you're going to find them. So I do think it is one piece of advice is that if she ever does come to say that she wants to do it is doing the opposite of what your parents did, which isn't like scheduling it the next day and saying, okay, let's talk about this. What bothers you? How often do you think about it? What triggers you to think about it? Do you think you could try to focus on other aspects of your appearance that you feel better about or see the beauty and you say you have an ethnic nose like she's saying, like trying to see the beauty in the difference.

Like just because it's not the nose that everyone else has doesn't mean that it's necessarily bad. But that's how it feels sometimes, especially when you're a teenager and you're trying to fit in. Yeah. I mean, I think it's tough because it's like if you see something that has a clear fix and it's your child and it's there, it's something that they also see. I could see why our parents did what they did. I'm not saying that that's like right.

But it's also kind of like, you know, when someone else comes, I think you see this a lot with weight. And I think we saw this a little bit last week with the mother with the neck that she was also trying to change. Or you see this with weight where it's like someone tells you that they feel like they're, they've gained weight or they feel like they're fat. And then maybe you've noticed, you notice it too. But like what are you supposed to say? And I was thinking about this because I was thinking like, oh, I like gained a few pounds over the holidays. and I'm like saying it out loud to like, you know, to a friend.

And I'm like, I'm saying that. Am I saying that so that they will tell me that I look great, even though I know my body and I know what I look like? Or am I saying that because I want validation in it? Right. So it's interesting. I don't know. I mean, like if you also, if you agree with that person's assessment of themselves.

And sometimes that's probably true, especially with something like a nose that's a hereditary nose and you saw it in yourself. and your husband had it and you see it in your child where you're like, yeah, life will be better if we just change it. Yes. It is interesting that like they've all had this. So they've all kind of dealt with it in the same way, which is like, okay, we don't like it. It's passed down.

This is how we all fix it. And even the idea of doing that is kind of passed down. Like not sort of relaxing into an imperfection is something that they haven't. really practiced. That being said, I get it. Like I think, I don't think there's anything wrong if you're a child or, you know, but people have braced, like your daughter has braced. Yes, totally. So, 100%. I could, we could have just all relaxed into her yuck mouth and just like seeing the, the beauty in it. So I get it. If there is something that is bothering your child, I just think it is good to have a little waiting period. Right. And if it's still bothering you in three months,

then go ahead and go for it. Or if this is something that she had been complaining about, you know, the whole time. And then she finally is like, well, can we do this? I still think it's important to take the time to, you know, it's a surgery. It's going to be painful. Right. And I, from what I understand, and again, I'm not against it if it's going to make you feel better, but there is sort of this adjustment that comes even more so with something like a nose job

versus like a breast reduction where it's like, on your face and your identity is kind of held in your face. So if you take your nose and you completely change it, there is sometimes, I'm sure this listener felt great about it, but sometimes there is almost this like adjustment period of like, oh my gosh, I feel like I'm looking at a totally different face in the mirror

and something that comes with that. So I think just having these conversations is important. But I think, again, if her daughter ends up wanting it and she feels good about giving it to her, her and they go through the conversations and I think this is a perfect opportunity when it comes up to talk about self-image and, you know, your self-worth and how it feels. And if this is something that you really think is, you know, if there's a general feeling of self-dustain and there's like a

general depression or negative self-talk, this could be the type of thing where you fix the nose and now she wants, you know, something else. And you're constantly changing. But if it really is just this one thing that's been plaguing her and she wants it and you go through the process, I think it's perfectly fine. Yeah. Well, good luck. I think it's a hard line between like support and, you know, being supportive of what the person wants

and wanting them to love themselves as they are. Totally. And I think you can try. There's no harm in saying like, well, let's try some of these strategies and let's look at, sometimes it's helpful to look at other beautiful people that like have a bigger nose. or have whatever smaller breasts or whatever it is that you're like not liking about yourself. Sometimes it's easier to see the beauty in other people that have that. So you could try some of that for a little bit.

And if it's like, no, I'm trying that. This really isn't working. I would feel so much better than go for it. But I'd wait to, you know, bring it up when she brings it up. It'll come up naturally, I think, by itself if she really does have an issue with it. Right. And maybe she won't. Let's do some intentions.

Okay. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I've listened since the beginning and I love the pod. Thank you for all your insight. I recently found out that my fiancé cheated on me while he was on a boy's trip in November. I received a message from the woman it happened with this past Saturday. He was gone for an entire week and she stated that they slept together the last two days of his trip. The entire time he was there, my intuition was telling me something wasn't right. He wasn't very communicative, not texting back for hours and not calling. though we had agreed prior to him leaving that he would call every day. I was upset about his lack of communication, and I let him know that I was upset and that I felt ignored and uncared for. The last couple of days of his trip, he actually seemed to be putting in more effort to communicate the days he slept with her. So once he got back, I believed him when he said he didn't do anything. He had mentioned that his friends had a female roommate and that they had talked when he was telling me about the trip. I asked him if something happened, and if that's why he wasn't communicating with

me and he lied and told me that they hadn't. When I got the message from the woman, I was furious. I felt so betrayed on so many different levels. I ended up moving out of our apartment and into one of my friend's houses. His trip was the first week of November, and this is the second week of January that I found out. He had been lying about so many things from then to now, but he had acted so normal for the most part. We've talked a lot since then about where our relationship went wrong, and there was a huge lack of communication and how we were both feeling before that trip happened. We've decided we both want to work on the relationship because we genuinely love each other and believe our relationship is worth working on.

So we're going to be attending couples therapy and I will be starting individual therapy. However, our couples therapy session is not until February 23rd. What is an intention I can use to help myself cope with the intense feelings I get when I think about and picture him cheating during that trip? I find myself ruminating and making myself sick, thinking about it, if something I see or hear reminds me of it, which I know is normal and it's going to take a while for that to change. I intend to continue to ask him questions about it all, which does make me feel better, but when I have time to myself to think is where my mind goes haywire.

Thank you for all you do, a betch who didn't listen to her intuition. We should have put a trigger alert on this one. I think there's probably a lot of people who's partners. are coming back from boys trips and now they're all freaking out. That's, I guess, a common, yeah, it's definitely a common fear. It seems like she was, like, validated in her thought that something was off. But, yeah, this is tough. What do you think? Totally. Well, it does seem, it seems, first of all, like there was some insecurity even leading into this, you know, that they had made an agreement and how often he was going to keep in touch and that he was going to call every day.

And she had asked him when he came home, if he had cheated, like there was some. There was. something there. Right. If you're asking someone when they come back, it means there was definitely something untrustworthy about the relationship before that. Yes. Interesting also that he was more communicative while he was cheating. It's to me it symbolizes, I guess, like a guilt. Yeah. That's exactly what I think was happening. But yeah, so my thought on this is that there is definitely a disconnect in the relationship. It existed before he cheated because you were doubtful of him going into this for some reason. I'm not sure what that is.

Maybe he's hard to read. He's not telling you how he feels. Maybe he's, you see him being flirtatious or he doesn't. Something is brewing there that's making her feel insecure. So I think, yes, you're doing couples therapy in a few weeks and hopefully that's what you guys can

figure out is what are sort of the underlying issues. And I think until then, you can kind of start your own like, couples therapy-ish while you're waiting, which is setting a time like we talked about in the last email, like every week for you guys to talk, setting aside a time where this is we're going to talk, what we're going to talk about, and maybe making some kind of an inventory for yourself of what was missing for you and having him kind of make an inventory of what was missing for him. Like, yes, I think they asking questions about the actual affair and what happened and the details,

that's okay if she wants to know that to just kind of get the information and quiet her mind. But the real work is going to happen in figuring out where the disconnect was before it happened and then seeing actual change in those types of behavior. So I get why she moved out. I get why she's like, you know, also going to try to work on it. But working on it doesn't just mean like we talk about what happened and then we just move on. It has to mean what caused this and how can we fix that piece? I think that's very good advice.

And I guess like will that in terms of like quieting her actual mind, like when it starts to just constantly replay that over and over again, this betrayal over and over again, is there something she can tell herself in that moment to get her through the next few weeks? Yeah. So she may not love this. And I don't. I think that the pain of that is, you know, it's serving a purpose for her. And I think it's important.

I'm glad she moved out to kind of show like, I'm taking this really seriously. Like something's got to change because I'm not just going to continue in something where like you cheat. I feel suspicious. It's fine. And you say you're sorry and you want to work on it. Like what does work on it mean? Work on it means there's actual. actionable changes that are happening. So I think when she has these moments where she's like

nauseous over the images that she's creating in her mind, that's her signal to herself that like in order to make this feeling subside somewhat, I need to see actionable changes on both of their parts, mostly his, it seems like, but hers, I'm sure too, if there's something that he's not feeling connected. So the intention that I wrote for her when she's in that moment, and it's probably, it might not make her necessarily feel better, but I think it will make her feel hopeful that she's going to find her way out is this pain exists to remind me that if nothing changes, nothing changes. And I think I'm hoping that will help her stay grounded in like either there's going to be change where this isn't going to work. And I'm going to move on and find happiness

with somebody else. It's almost like gratitude for the intrusive thoughts that this is here to, because what happens is a lot of times. Because if they went away, then you're right. Like it would just, she would just be living in a life where like that kind of thing is fine. Yes. And especially they're not married yet. So in some ways, I feel like, and this happens a lot where it's almost like there's a festering infection in a relationship. And before the wedding, somebody like rips open the wound to kind of be like, we need to address this before we get married. And it does happen in terms of like cheating and that type of thing beforehand. Or you'll see this with the wedding and like arguments that happen about finances or whatever

where it's sort of like unconsciously trying to address something through a sort of like cowardly, passive, aggressive way. But it does seem. I mean, I don't know how this woman got her phone number or how that happened, but maybe there's something where he almost like wanted this to come out or, you know, unconsciously like needed for something to come to a head. So that's a speculation. I don't really know about that. But I do think that the pain of this is a warning sign to her that like, we've got to make changes or this is, I'm going to continue to feel like this.

So the key in recovering from an affair, I think, is realizing that you see the actual changes in your partner and those changes make you feel confident. I'm not just going to be confident because nothing is different based on nothing. Like you need to see he's either being more affectioner. Ideally, he's communicating more. He's telling you about doubts that he has in the relationship. He's opening up about things that are working or not working. That's real change. And if you see that, then you can allow your mind to quiet a little bit.

If you're not seeing that, then this is serving a purpose for you right now. Sorry you're dealing with this. Yeah. February 23rd comes sooner rather than lady. Yeah. But I think that's really helpful. You feel this for a reason. It reminds you of like your strength.

It gives you almost it gives you a strength. Yes. To live like a real life, not like one where you're pushing things under the sweeping things. Yes. Make sure you're seeing change. And that's for couples. Like I talk about couples that are recovering from an affair that happened 10 years ago. And if the change that you were looking for stops happening five years down the road,

the thoughts are going to come back because you're going to be triggered by, oh, this is how he was when right before he had his affair. And this feels like it's happening again. He's growing distant or he's not affectionate or whatever it is. And that's your moment to kind of be like, hey, remember all those changes that we made that helped us feel more close and helped us both be secure, well, it's falling off. And we just need to kind of get a little refresher. And that needs to happen for the rest of your marriage. So in some ways, when these things happen during an engagement or even a dating period, sometimes I feel like it's a blessing in disguise because it's sort of like, before we do this, we need to realize that our relationship is going to take constant watering and care in a way

that we've discussed is important. And then we either go to therapy every week and remember to do it or we have a date night every week where we remember to do it or whatever it is. Like you have to be kind of religious about caring for your relationship. Okay. So we're about to do some triggers. Just so you guys know, there is an option now. If you are listening to this podcast on Spotify, you guys can say if you think the triggered

is triggering or if you think it's not a big deal, we're going to have polls up on Spotify, on the feed. So check it out. Because, you know, sometimes you guys disagree with us. Sometimes we disagree with each other. That's kind of the fun part of this game. And play along with us.

We'll do some triggers. You ready? All right. Let's do it. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I have a triggered scenario for you, but it's a little different because I'm the triggering party. My husband and I were at a get together at a friend's house

with our one-year-old daughter. He and I were talking to one of the women about our daughter. And she said, I can't tell which one of you she looks like the most. and I said in a matter-of-fact way, she looks like me. And then I showed her a picture of me at about her same age so she could see the resemblance, and she agreed with me. In the few days since then, he's mentioned it several times in a joking way, but I can tell it really bothered him.

I apologize when he brings it up because I realized I was very definitive about it and I didn't need to be. I didn't mean it as a slight to my husband, even though he seems to have taken it that way. He's very handsome, and I would love with one of our hopeful, future children look like him. But I feel pretty confident that this one doesn't. I do understand that I could have just let our friend speculate because maybe she could have seen my husband in her. But to paint a full picture, she does look so much like me. We have the same eye shape and unique blue, gray color, the same nose and round face shape. And my hair looked the same as her as when I was

her age. My husband has a much longer face shape and his eyes are green. He keeps saying, it's an option, but you said that as if it was a fact. I feel like it is a fact, though. See, as everyone I've talked to, thinks so also, including his own mom and sister. I'm attaching pictures so you can decide for yourself. I don't know.

What do you all think? Should he be triggered? Sincerely, betch with or without a mini-mee. And she includes some pictures so we can decide if the baby looks like him or her. And I mean,

we're not going to show the pictures for privacy purposes, but I have to say, I think in the first picture, the baby looks a lot more like her. And I think in the second picture, I could see both. Yes, I had the same reaction.

First of all, I love the pictures. I don't know. Beautiful baby. Beautiful baby, which is why they're like fighting over who she looks more like. She's so adorable. She's really cute. But I totally agree. I don't think this was an open shut them.

The first picture I could see, it kind of looks like. And I would say, if you guys are asking, she's probably 70% mom, 30% dad, something along those lines. But it's not like it's a mini-me situation where there's like none. of the dad in there to the point where it's not a wipe out yeah right it's not a wipe out i totally agree the second picture i could see the dad in there more i could also see her being like sort of like thinking the baby looks like her and then you kind of get into that like oh i have a little mini clone and she's like my mini me yes and it's kind of like that's i think the idea of that is kind of fun so she's probably just like gone all in on it and then you have like the confirmation bias thing

where you're sort of like now that you've decided this now you're looking for every little thing like her pinky toe looks just like my pinky toe and you know Right get you're kind of like looking for all the things that confirm that she looks like you. So I could see why the husband felt a little bit like it's not it's not one of those where like I've seen people where it's like this is all mom or this is all that like even Lila my oldest I had you know it's so funny. I was thinking about that. Yeah. You envision, you're like, I'm carrying this baby for nine months. Like I envision like a dark hair, dark eye like, and she came out looking just like her dad, like blonde hair, blue eyes. Pretty much looks almost like I'll kind of sometimes be like, but your eyebrow shape is like sort of like mine.

Like I'll try to find like one little thing. But sometimes it's open shut like that. No one would be like, I think if they looked at Lilo and she was a baby, being like, I can't tell she looks like both of you. No. I wouldn't really be what someone would say. But I can see being, again, in the situation where it's not entirely clear when the parents look a little like each other, which happens a lot too.

Yes. This couple kind of looks sort of. They have similar coloring. They're like both lighter. Like Mike and I don't have a kid, but if we had a kid, we look somewhat similar to each other. Yeah. If it was like a little unclear and then someone said something and he was like, absolutely none of her. It's all me. Yes. I think I would be a little insulted. I'd be like, yes. Especially if the baby was as

cute as this one. I'd be like, it kind of like, it kind of looks like, you can't just completely shut me out of the equation. Yes. It's not like that cut and dry. Yes. I agree. I could see why he was triggered. It's not like to the point where it's like facts. That's it. Like, don't be delusional. Like I don't think we're at that point. So, but I will give the listener and the mom, I'd say she looks more like you, but I don't think it's open, closed. Right. And also, I mean, I think they're not that I think this really is any that much to do with the situation, but I did hear or read somewhere that like when babies are born, they're supposed to look a little bit more like the dad so that like biologically a father could like claim them. So maybe there is a little bit of a biological insultingness in the fact

that you're stating that he looks absolutely nothing, like factually right, the child looks absolutely nothing like him, just biologically could be more triggering to a man than a woman. Yeah. Interesting. I could see that. And I do, I also agree with the idea, you know, my kids are a little bit older and like they change, you know, who they look like when they're first born is not always like how their features end up, like, evolving. So I think they can go through little phases where they sort of look a little more like mom and a little, their expressions start to come out. And maybe they have expressions that are more like one or the other. So it just makes their general. vibe different. So this was a fun one. What would you give it? Um, so for the, if it were you,

if it were you, the baby looks, again, you look so different than Jeff. So it would be very, it's hard one for you to probably imagine, but right. No, I could imagine it. Cause like, the other two, like Maddie and Brooks, I think I look more like. So if somebody was like, oh, totally, you look, they look nothing like you. I kind of like, but that I, that's like I was feeling this. Well, not somebody like your husband. Yes. Yes. Yes. I agree. I do think it's, as I'm envisioning it, it's triggering. Not like immensely, but I'd give it like a five, maybe, four. Yeah, I think that's fair.

I think I would be like, if I think I would be a little triggered if the, you know, they didn't see any of me in it and the baby looked. One case could be made. Yes. At least pretend. Yeah. Yes. So going forward, just like, you know, try it.

Again, right? Like using the power of your mind, where you focus. your attention. So if she's only focusing on the aspects of her daughter that look just like her, she's not going to see those bits. Like we both saw a little something, especially in that second photo that was like more similar to dad. So it's there. And I think she's not seeking it out because it feels nice to, you know, that narcissistic love that we all tend to have for our children. It's like, oh, you just want to focus on the things that are just like you. But dad's in there. And see if you can focus on it a little more.

It'll make him feel good. Yeah, throw him a bone. Do you want to read our second one? Yes, I'll read this. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. My husband and I have been married for a year and have two kids. My husband has been divorced for about four years and has a child from the previous marriage. Important detail just to indicate that he and his ex are still in contact.

My husband, his brother, and his ex are all on my mother-in-law's phone plan, which my mother-in-law pays for in full. I brought it up about a year ago to my husband stating that it's a little weird to me that she's still on his plan and shouldn't she get her own plan at this point? He addressed it with my mother-in-law who said it's cheaper for her to stay on it and keep a four-person plan. I've since left it alone since it doesn't affect my daily life, even though I find it ridiculous. How triggered should I be?

I can see why this would be triggering. It's kind of weird. I understand like the mother-in-law's excuse. kind of. Right. And also it's like the mother of her grandchildren. So maybe she feels like she's like hooking her up and not having to pay for a phone. I'd let it go just because they share the kids and it's like would probably just cause a thing for no reason. But it would, I would think it would bother me too. I'd be like, this seems a little weird. Yes. I agree. I think the only reason to address it is if you want to get on the phone plan and like have your phone paid for. Right. You could be the fourth.

Right. You could be the fourth. So I think unless you want to like take that on and say like, hey, you need a fourth. Like I'd like to be the fourth. I pay $85 a month and I'd rather not. Right. And then it makes sense. Then then you're putting them in a spot where it's like now they're having to like pick, which is uncomfortable. But unless you really want to go on the phone plan yourself, then I would leave it alone. If it was like an ex girlfriend or even an ex-wife with no kid, kids, I would probably be a little more annoyed. Yeah. But I think that like because there's a kid, they want, you want to keep it as peaceful as possible. And I think for that reason, I would, again, let it go unless I wanted to get how much cheaper is a fifth. You could all get on there. Right. One big happy family.

And I don't know. The poll plans are weird because I do think like people say that somehow. There's something about, yes, I totally agree. It is a weird thing where it could, in a twisted world, which it is, it makes, it could make financial sense to have to have an extra person on there. But yeah, I could see being triggered by this. I think there's also this idea of like when there's a grandchild, it's sort of like, okay, the extra $85 is going to go towards my granddaughter, which feels like, okay, it's like the mother. And maybe she would, saving her money is like giving money to my grandchild. Yeah.

And a feeling like because you're the mother of the grandchild. you're like part of the family to an extent, which I'm sure doesn't make her feel good. Yes. You know, she has the kids. So she's more her family member than maybe this. She doesn't say they have kids together. But yes, I agree. Triggering.

But unless you feel like you want to go on there, I don't think you can just be like take her off just for principle. It really is irrelevant. It doesn't really matter aside from. My only reason, again, this would be more triggering is if the mother. in law and the ex-wife or like really best friends. Yes. That would be that.

That would make it a lot more annoying if she was like, um, not only is she on the phone plan, but they're just best buddies. Yes. I think. Yes. She doesn't say how close they are. Totally. I think if this is an isolated thing, you feel good about your relationship with

your mother-in-law. She's not intrusive in any other ways and everything else is fine. You could leave it alone. If this is sort of a symptom of a more like intrusive and meshed relationship that's bothering you, then maybe you want to address that. And this is just like a symptom of that. But if this is all it is and you really like your own phone plan and you don't want to have to deal with changing providers or whatever it might be, then I would leave it alone and say this is just an isolated random technicality.

Yeah. I'd give it a six. Six. I think it's more on the triggering side. Yeah. I maybe give it a five, but I'm in that, I'm in that range. I could see on principle. It's like she's on the family plan.

How does she even know, I guess, is the other. Like, how do you even know who's on the plan? It's not like there's a group plan chat. Yeah, or maybe they went to the store to get a new phone and like there's her name on the list of whatever. And I could, in that moment where you're like at the AT&T. store and all of a sudden they're like, oh, so there's four lines and it's so and so and so and so. And you're like, wait, what? What? Right. Yeah. I think it's ex-girlfriend. Absolutely no. Absolutely. No. Yeah. Unacceptable. Eight. Yeah. Mother of the child, ex-wife. I'd give it. I'd give it six.

Yeah. Okay. I could agree with that. We did it. Guys, if you want to vote on these, we'll read the poll results. If overwhelmingly different or if they're really funny, go on Spotify, if you're a listener on Spotify. You can choose if this is trigger or not. Or maybe we could even do a scale. I'm not sure if that's one of the options. If we could do a scale, if we could let you collectively pick the number. Right.

We'll let you know too. I can't wait to see what everyone thinks. I'm always interested to see if the listeners agree. I know that there have been a couple times so they strongly disagree. So I love feedback. I'd love to hear what you guys think. But I think that's our time. Great work today.

Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby. Editing by Jazz Apatos. Guest booking by Allie Friedlander. and send your emails to oversharing at betches.com. Betches.