Oversharing - How To Move On From Your Therapist

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

Today on Oversharing, Jordana and Dr. Naomi reflect on their visit together and spoiler alert… they miss each other already. Our Overshare email comes from a listener trying to make holiday plans despite a manipulative mother. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a Betch trying to ease the tension between her husband and brother. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for an acne-ridden Betch in need of help. And we’re feeling triggered by online dating etiquette and getting ghosted by therapists. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And so nice to see you.

I've missed you. You've recently left New York two days ago. I know. Same. It's weird. Like, I feel like I'm. miss you more and I just saw you like I know you were kind of out of sight out of mind before no that's that's like the double-edged sword of like seeing people that uh you love that live far away

it's like so nice and then but like you kind of get used to it and then you're like oh it'd be nice if they live closer totally like you don't really I don't entertain that thought and then waking up and seeing you in the morning and like you know saying good night before bed you kind of get used to it so I've been missing you too. I know. Maybe it's good because then you appreciate the times more. Totally. Yeah.

I mean, that was the whole takeaway from my whole trip to New York, which was sort of a whirlwind of seeing basically everybody that I knew before we moved here in a short period of time. It was worth it to just make, I mean, with you I got a little bit more time, but still not as much time as I would have wanted because we were like running. running around and seeing a million. Yeah, exactly. But like it's worth it just to have that hug, just to be in person, even if I didn't get to take a, you know, hour long walk and chat with every single person that I wanted to. It was nice just to have those connections again. So that was

really great. Agreed. Yeah. It was really nice to see you and have you in the house is the, you know, long, long anticipated first. Well, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we were first, like, real house guests. So it was exciting. It was like so nice. It was so, it was like, I feel like there was so much more like noise and bustle going on. Yes, yes. Yes. And that was really nice. I mean, it's funny because it's like I like the quiet a lot of the time, but it's really nice to have like a feeling like there's people here. Totally. Well, again, it's like you have it and then maybe you appreciate the quiet a little bit once, you know, I'm sure there were moments of, you know, when the bickering gets intense or like the up and down the stairs or whatever where you're like,

okay, I could appreciate the quiet, but it is, you know, I think that's what life is. You need a little bit of everything to kind of appreciate. You need it to be there, then you need it to be gone. Then you needed to be back. Then you needed to be gone in order to really. But I mean, yeah, who was I talking to? Where it's like the ideal life would be like Monday, you're 23 and single and out there having fun. Tuesday, you know, you're married with no kids. Wednesday, you have like two screaming

babies and like Thursday you're, you know, in a completely different state. Back in the womb. Right. Yeah. Back in the womb. You're five years old. Right. It's sort of like, you know what I mean, like the best balance would be having all of that, but you can't really do that. So it's nice to try to enjoy the phase you're in. Right. That's an interesting thought experiment though. That would make a good TV show where it's like all of a sudden you just get swept back into a different time in your life like every 24 hours like oh it's Tuesday I'm back in college just like hung over on the couch totally that's really funny but yeah it was it was really nice I did fully appreciate I got to reconnect with some old friends and just had those moments I remember sitting at your kitchen table

with a very dear one of my oldest friends and just like kind of pausing and saying like I want to just appreciate this moment being here with these people because I know in the blink of an eye it's going to be gone it's going to be another probably a couple of years before I have you know this type of gathering again so I really I really did appreciate it it was it was really nice those connections are so important and I think it's like an email that we're going to talk about later is kind of like how to balance connecting with different people and finding the time, especially with the holiday season. Quality versus quantity and being mindful and taking care of yourself. And so yeah. I think a lot of holiday, you know, it's so interesting that you said

that because I think a lot of holiday questions or advice about how to get through like this time, especially if you're not, you know, if you kind of forced to see people you don't want to see. but the opposite is really nice and not talked about that enough and sort of like how to like stay in the moment and really enjoy things when they are going well like there's not as much attention paid to that totally well because we do tend to focus on the thing where that makes us anxious or fearful first and we have to be in a very like non-activated non-fearful state of mind to really sink into a moment like even being together with all of our siblings, which we haven't done in, I think since before the pandemic.

Yeah. Not everyone, you got married kind of like pandemic-y. Talley got wedding. Oh, Tali got. Everyone was there. Everyone was there. That's right. Yeah.

That was like towards the end of the pandemic. Right. Yes. Yes. But yeah, it's, it is hard. And that's what like that kind of just one deep breath. I always say like just one nice, long, slow deep breath can get you back. into a moment of like, okay, this is okay. Right now, this moment feels good, okay. I'm going to lean in.

I'm going to use my five senses. That's the best way to kind of be in a moment is what am I seeing, what am I smelling, what am I hearing, and just kind of focus on what is actually happening. That's, you know, the only way we still can't, even in that moment I had at your folding kitchen table. Even that moment was like, okay, I'm going to just ground into these senses. I couldn't capture it. I didn't make it any longer. I couldn't extend it or make it last. But you just can kind of sink into it if you ground into your senses there.

So that's. Yeah. And then if you want to remember it, it probably is easier if you've like really paid attention to all the senses. Yes. You can actually put yourself back there. Yes. Like I'm doing it right this minute.

And even like a hug that. I shared with my friend. I remember, you know, noticing just the sensation of like our cheeks next to each other and just like kind of taking that moment. And then you're right. Once you take that moment of like, oh, this is what her cheek feels like next to my cheek. Now when I'm looking back on it, I really can remember it a little bit more vividly and it's easier to access. So now when I want like a little positive recharge, I can access the sensory experience of that moment. Yeah. And it's so interesting, again, like in the positive way, because you think of I was reading this book. And it's a lot about like how, you know, people are unable to like let go of

the past or let go of things holding them back because they, you know, they were such strong memories. Like, let's say you had someone who broke up with you and you like, again, you're more likely to pay attention to how you felt in that moment. And if you kind of like pay attention to that and you relive that, then it becomes sort of more ingrained in your body. And then you remember it easier. Yes. You know, it's almost like you, you unwillingly get that stuff mostly for bad memories or bad things. And then it lives in your body. And then you replay it. It's almost like you're still in the past. Totally. And we are wired for survival like I always talk about. And so those things are the ones that get really kind of seared into your memory. So we almost have to be intentional

about being sensory with the positive, unless it's like the super, like flash, like if you won the lottery, you're going to remember the moment where you found out you won the lottery. Right. But like other than something that's like, or the first time you saw someone after a long time away or whatever, something like that. But a hug with a friend, unless you really sink into that moment or a family member, you're not going to steer it into your memory the way that you would something that's scary. That's just how we're designed. So it's, this is a good reminder to kind of, if you want to have easier access, like almost the reverse trauma, like I can't stop thinking about this thing. Like, I can't stop thinking about this positive thing. You have to really be intentional about sinking into

the moment. So true. Because like we're usually on autopilot. Like you usually kind of just go do the thing and then you go home and you don't like really think about it but if you could really pay attention to the good moments be cool to try to like whatever the opposite of traumatize yourself is yes like positively word for that yes yes searing that positive moment into your that's what that's when i talk about rewiring your brain that's what that is right it's paying really really close attention with your senses to something that is either a neutral or positive because our brains are wired to pay really, really close attention to things that are scary and negative because we want to make sure that we can prevent them from happening again.

So we want to remember what did it smell like? What were the sounds that happened when that scary thing happened? What did the guy look like that broke my heart so I can make sure never to date a guy like that again or whatever it is? You know, like you really, so in rewiring our brain, we have to do the same thing but with positive experiences. Which we have a little bit. We like the smell of like cookies, so we might be more drawn.

Yeah, people associate like the holidays or something like that. A lot of the Christmas stuff I feel like kind of gives you that. Yes. Flashback to whatever that is. And also I guess with like seasonal stuff like Christmas, it happens every year. So it helps to probably rewire the situation in your brain. Exactly. So let's all get out there, be intentional about creating more of an intense positive experience by paying attention to the details of it.

Yeah. Enjoy those holidays. We have a lot of questions about holiday issues, but I like this as like a nice little positive start to them as you go into time that a lot of people are spending with their friends and their family and they're like off. They're maybe having some better memories. Right. Totally. Or find that little. you know, that little connection that you make with someone that is positive, you know, and really focus on it, the details of it, and that will make it feel bigger than what it is. It could be a minute, but in your mind, it'll feel like something that can last you. Yeah. Let's get into it. Our voicemail number is 64636362626294.

If you want to leave us a voicemail, or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. I will read our first overshare. All right. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, my mother has diagnosed bipolar disorder an unhealthy relationship with alcohol and often sees the world from a narcissistic point of view, per my therapist. I've never had an easy relationship with her and was forced to grow up quickly as a child. Our family often walks on eggshells around my mom to avoid her lashing out or causing a scene. I'm 26 and I live with my fiancee.

I'm writing in seeking your advice on the best way to navigate the holidays with multiple families in multiple locations. My parents had a nasty divorce and haven't seen or spoken to each other in years, living in two different states, and my fiance's family also lives in a different city. Most recently in mid-October, my mom called to ask about Thanksgiving and Christmas plans. I told her I hadn't thought about the holidays yet or talked to my fiancé about his family's plans, but was confident we would make something work and figure it out as we got closer. I believe because it was not an immediate yes to the plans she suggested, she took it as a personal offense and the conversation from her end spiral, in a very toxic and manipulative way. She sent me a long text afterwards saying how disappointed she is

that I can't make decisions without consulting my fiancé, that I'm not my own person anymore, and that I've made my family my second priority in my life, etc. Last Christmas, we spent several days driving over 20 hours to many locations to see my two parents and families and my fiance's family. I know this is not sustainable and seems impossible to appease everyone without spreading ourselves

so thinly and being exhausted afterwards. I honestly enjoyed the holidays for this reason. I would greatly appreciate your insight on the best way to handle future events such as holidays or birthdays. Thank you. A betch with mommy issues. Can relate to this one. You've come to the right place. Yes.

A family member that is acting insane. We can relate. I think. And you also, I think specifically can relate because you just came in and saw, you know, like our parents are divorced. You saw your dad. you saw, you know, like our mom, you saw siblings from all over the place. Yes. It does sometimes feel like a little overwhelming that it's, you know, most people on a nuclear

family, they have like one sibling and their parents to just see. And it's pretty straightforward. Yes. Although I do think a lot of people can relate to this. And now she's married. So she has the in-laws side. It only gets bigger. Yes.

So it does, I will validate. It sounds. And I'm glad you're. You know, I think she said she's 26. So this is the time to start figuring this out. You're young and you're going to have a life ahead of you of trying to do this in a way where you can maintain your sanity, respect your husband and his family and your family and your mom. It does sound like she's being a little manipulative by trying to, you know, draw your character into question when you're trying to make a decision in a complicated situation by saying, oh, you know, you have to ask your, husband permission to, you know, it's ridiculous. Yes, of course you do. It's the holidays or your fiancee. You're engaged. Very reasonable that you're making this decision together. Very reasonable that you're taking his opinion into account. So hopefully you're not letting that voice take up too much space in your mind. And it seems like this is something that you have to

try to figure out with your fiancee. You guys are both probably as good at anybody as mapping out this plan and then you just have to reveal your plan to the rest of the family. Like, I don't think that you have to, you know, other than are you available this day, are you available that day, trying to figure out what works for everybody? I think the amount of time and the amount of driving that you're willing to do. And if you don't see someone on Thanksgiving and you end up seeing them Christmas instead or you don't do Christmas Eve and you do Christmas Day or maybe you do New Year's Day or New Year's Eve, you've got to do what works for you and spend the amount of time with people that you want to

spend time with, especially if there are people that don't make you feel great and don't fill your tank. I think they can get a little bit less time than the people that do make you feel good and do fill your tank. And I mean, it's hard, I think, when you're dealing with, it kind of feels like the only way out of this is to not care about what someone says about you. Yes. in this way. Easier said than done. But I feel like that's really the mental hoop to get through sort of for the rest of your life. Like if you have this kind of person in your life who's constantly, you know, trying to manipulate you or telling you certain things or is going to be mad at you

if you don't realize you have to walk on eggshells as you say. Like you really only have to do that to the extent that you care about what their reaction is. Right. Right. So I think that's sort of the mental hurdle to go through. Like, where if you, you know, she has a therapist, she said, if you feel like you're, you know, you know your fiancee isn't controlling you, you know you don't deprioritize your family. Like if you know that about yourself, then you can say what this person's saying is not about me.

It's about them. It has nothing to do with me. And like I can't stop them from saying it doesn't sound like she can stop her from saying it. And again, I think once you hit a certain age, your tendencies are kind of your tendencies. is right so I think the only thing she can say is whatever she says I know who I am I know what my priorities are I know that I'm a good person I know that I'm not whatever this person she's painting me to be is and then if she wants to like then then the words lose all of their sting right I totally

agree and not taking it personally like you said kind of and I do think you have to sort of take an inventory without her voice in your mind of what makes sense for you think about it when you're calm, when your body's calm, when you're thinking straight, come up with your plan of what you want to do. And then when she comes at you with these character attacks, I think you can just say, I've thought about this in a calm state of mind. I trust myself, like you're saying. I'm not going to take this personally. And I also, I don't think you need to be exposed to long periods of time of somebody just, you know, I don't know if it's necessarily abusive. I don't know exactly what she's saying, but, you know, trying to make you feel badly

about yourself. If you've been thoughtful about it and you think you're making a good decision, you can hear her out as long as she's not being abusive and then say, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Here's what we've decided to do. Right. And then just kind of, you know, step back and come back to the security that you have, that you've made a good choice and that you're trying to do the best for everybody. And this is also your time off from work to enjoy yourself. So you don't, that should carry some weight. I think, you know, the last year when there were 20 hours driving around, and if you're enjoying that, and you can enjoy the time in the car with your fiance and put on some music and make it enjoyable, great, do that. But if it feels like it's

just going to be draining and exhausting, you may have to break the news to somebody, hey, we're not going to see you on Christmas, we'll come by maybe Christmas Eve or maybe we can make an alternative plan for New Year's Day or whatever you think you can do to make this work. I think it's okay to set these types of boundaries, specifically if there are people in your life that are extremely draining are unkind to you. It's a tough, that's the tough spot where it's like, well, it's my mother, right? So I feel obligated. to be with her on this day. But if someone's not treating you well,

and you've said this in the past, it doesn't family... Just because they're your family, doesn't give them free reign to say whatever they want and you just have to take it. Right. Especially going out of your way,

driving a long distance, to show up at somebody's house to have her potentially be drunk or not kind or whatever it is. You know. And I mean, at this age, I would imagine she's tried to relay her feelings about all of this stuff already. Like, you know, that's always step one.

When you do this, it makes me feel whatever. Like you can try to change the person's behavior by telling them how you feel. I would imagine she's already done that. If she hasn't, try that. But if you say that enough times and the person still acts the same way, then you can say, like, you know what I mean? I understand why you would feel bad, but the other person doesn't feel bad. Like if the other person felt bad for the way that you feel, they would just,

change the way they act around you. Right. Right. So I think that's sort of another key point because it does feel like, oh, I'm being mean. I'm not like going to see my mom spending time with my mom. I'm not like taking her considerations in. But she's not taking any of your considerations. So it's kind of like at the end of the day, if she's made the rule that we only think about what we want, then you can go with that. Right. Right. And look, if she is mentally ill and she's diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I think you can also make sure that her getting proper treatment, that's part of a contingency on you, you know, having a relationship with her, going out of your way to see her, is that she be in treatment, taking medication, seeing her therapist, seeing her psychiatrist,

doing all of those things to make sure that, you know, she's acting in the best possible way that she can so that it makes it better for you. Like you're saying, she has to show some care for you. A lot of times when you do have a parent that has narcissistic tendencies, it's more about them wanting, you know, the child to take care of them. So you are entitled to say, look, I, I want to help you with your mental illness or your alcoholism or whatever it is that you're struggling with. But you also have to be, I'm not going to put more effort into this than you are. So here are the things that I need from you. And then I'll be happy to support you in your battle with, you know, bipolar disorder or alcoholism or whatever it is.

Boundaries as a former guest, Terry Cole would say. For sure. I would definitely do that. And there's, it's more of a book for borderline personality disorder, but there is a book called Walking on Eggshells, which is very helpful when trying to set boundaries with people that are, you know, I think, Terry Cole's book does a great job for boundaries with just like regular people, but boundaries with people that have mental illness, there's a great book called Walking on Eggshells that might be helpful in this scenario. Oh, I'll have to check that out for my own issues. Anyway, let's do a betchesist. Let's do this betchesist for anyone who's new here is where we debate an ethical

question from a reader. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I'm a huge fan of everything, Betches, and I especially look forward to hearing your commentary each week. As the holidays approach, I thought I'd reach out to you regarding an issue between my husband and brother, I can't get off my mind. Last year, my husband and I hosted Christmas for the first time with my family, my dad, older brother and his wife, staying about five nights from out of state. Immediately after my family left, my husband expressed his frustration that my brother never helps pay for anything. We went out for numerous meals, which either my dad or my husband paid for and my dad and myself handled most of the cooking. He expressed his frustration had been building up for years. As there have been many situations, he has picked up the bill for

the night, but my brother has never returned the favor. He's also emphasized that the issue wasn't solely about money, stating my brother does not put effort into anything. He pointed out in the situation he did not help with any household activities and in the past when we all lived in the city that we were always the ones reaching out to initiate hanging out. I totally understand where my husband from, especially the latter issue. During the time we lived in the same city, I was very disappointed by my brother's lack of effort into our relationship. However, that's another email for another time. My husband told me this holiday, he was at his breaking point and expressed it was time for me to bring up the issue to my brother. He thinks it's ridiculous that my brother is seven years older and still

expects my dad and me, his younger sister, to take care of things, especially considering his financial situation is fine. While I can agree and empathize with my husband's point of view, everything he says is objectively true. I don't see the point of bringing it up to my brother as he's somewhat socially unaware in general. He even recently noted to me after visiting his wife's family abroad for two weeks that he thought it was weird. Her family asked him to contribute to groceries and meals out. I too have noted his lack of financial contributions to family and social outings, but I love my brother and his other great unique qualities, so I'm okay with letting it go. It would be nice if he contributed more in general, but to quote Jennifer,

Manistan, the breakup, I want you to want to do the dishes. My husband is cooled down about this issue over the past year, but will still make sarcastic jabs about it randomly, which makes me feel like there will still be tension this Christmas season when we host again. The situation is more nuanced than what I can explain here about my questions to the two of you are A, would you be as annoyed as my husband in this situation? And B, is it my responsibility to bring this issue up to my brother. I can guarantee my brother did not pick up on my husband's irritation last year, and I fear me bringing it up will just cause more attention between the two of them, but not actually solve the problem. I don't see my family very often, and ultimately, I'm just happy to host a few

carefree days with them, but of course, I want to validate my husband's annoyances, sincerely trying to keep the Christmas cheer. This is a good one. This is a good one. I think this is like an interesting dilemma. If I were her, I would, I agree. I wouldn't say anything. Because It's not personal. He's talking about how his wife's family asked him to contribute to groceries and meals when he was there. So, like, this is a him cheapness problem, right? This is, like, who he is inherently.

And that's sort of, like, punishment enough, I think, a little bit. Like, the fact that, you know what I mean? Like, I don't think it's worth really saying anything. I would just be like, you know, like, what he has to live with is the fact that, like, people are talking about how cheap he is behind his back and to his face, I guess, from these other people. Like, we can afford it. It's not really about the money.

It's, I can totally get, I totally validate that it's annoying. I would say this to the husband. But I don't know. I don't feel like, I don't feel comfortable saying anything. I don't know. What would you do? I feel like you're revving up to disagree. Yeah.

I can tell when you in your face. No. I, um, the revving up to disagree is like, I'm no longer listening. to you. I'm planning my counter argument. No, I mean, I'm glad we're doing this as a betchesist because I do feel like she's not doing her brother any favors by not saying anything. If this was like even an in-law or like a, you know, a friend of a friend, if this wasn't her brother, I might agree with you. But I feel, I almost feel like he needs to know. And he heard He wants.

Yes. He needs to know that this is unacceptable. It's unacceptable to stay with someone for two weeks and then be surprised enough to retell the story that someone had to ask you to contribute to groceries and to be with someone for five days and not offer to pay for a single meal. Like I think he needs to know and who better to tell him than his sister that, Like, this is not, you know. What about his dad?

I would almost. Yeah, the dad would be a great person. Someone's got to clue him in. I kind of agree with the husband. This can't, it's just not a way to exist in society where you just show up at people's homes for long periods of time and don't contribute in any way. Like it just, it's okay if he's aloof and he just doesn't know, but someone's got to tell him. Well, what of his point of view is like, I'm the guest? I guess.

You know, and when I host, I pay for everything. Okay. That's kind of how I think it's stuff. I'm just playing devil's advocate. Right. Okay. Look, if maybe if devil's advocate and he does invite you to stay, then he has to invite her to stay with him and pay for everything,

which I don't hear exactly happening. And it's fine. I think if she brought it up and he was like, look, my perspective is, when I stay with you, you take care of everything. And when you stay with me, I take care of everything. That's fine. But I, if this is me, if this was one of our brothers and they were around for meal out after meal out after meal out.

Not even doing pretend credit card grab. I would eventually say, hey, I love you. This is part of being like a good guest. This is my opinion. I don't want to hurt your feeling. but I just, you know, especially because he already heard it from his in-laws. And she might have done the thing where she validated him, which is not helping him. This is something he's getting from multiple places, it sounds like.

And I think she's got to clue him in that he's got to do a little bit more to be a better guest and just. And it's not even about like the husband's it. It's not even about the money, even if he picked up something small. Yes. Like, oh, I went and got. bagels or you know what I mean like something like that totally just the gesture of it is I think probably more about what the the husband's annoyed about yeah somebody's got to clue him in I think he's

he doesn't make him a bad person he's just aloof aloof enough that he was I don't know if he's aloof because aloof enough that the in-laws mentioned it to him and then he came back and started complaining to the sister who potentially said oh my gosh I can't believe they expected you to pay for groceries, which I don't know what she said to that, but if that's what you said, you're not doing him any favors. Well, okay, here's my question. How would you bring this up? Christmas is coming. It's about to fly in. Like, what would be your method? Because like, okay, I get what you're saying in theory. And I agree with it. Like, you know, your explanation makes sense that she should tell him it's the nicer thing to do to almost tell him. How? Right.

So I would wait until he doesn't pay. No, I wouldn't do that. I would do it sooner than later because then you have the conversation, say, the beginning of December by the time he comes, it's the end of December. He's like cooled off, had some time to either think about it or not. And then at that point, if he still doesn't do it, then I would agree with you. I would let it go. How would you actually say it, though?

I would say, you know, we're coming. You know, I'm so excited to see you. We have a couple of dinners planned. you know, we're going to go here, we're going to go there, you know, so and so and I are going to handle everything for Christmas dinner. We're going to get the groceries. We're going to decorate. We're going to do all that stuff. If we have a, you know, a couple dinners out, we'd really appreciate it if you'd be willing to take care of one of the dinners. You know, last time we came, we took care of this and the other and dad paid for this and so and so paid for that or we paid for whatever.

We'd really appreciate it if you could, you know, contribute a little bit this time when you come. Okay. I'm nervous on her behalf. Yeah, it's not going to be fun. It's not going to be a great conversation. I wouldn't throw in the thing with the wife's family unless it really gets sticky and then you can say, you know, I wouldn't go there because then that's kind of like using his disclosure about his stuff against him. Unless it's really necessary. No, you know, what are you talking about? I always pay for everything. Right. Right. Or I can say that worst is when it comes off like, oh, I'm keeping, I'm keeping track. Right. I get it. But at this point, it does seem like this husband, and she's validating the husband. Like, this isn't something that

happened one time at Christmas. Maybe they were going through a financial thing that he didn't, that they were unaware of, give him the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. But if this is something that's pervasive that's been happening for years and the in-laws are talking about it, I think it would be nice to say this is what we're going to take care of. We're happy to do it. Maybe you can take care of one of the meals out. And if that's the case, we'd be happy to have you pick a spot that would be doable for you and even offer. Right. In your budget. Right. It's not going to be comfy. Right. I like that around the planning. It's good to admit because it's like we're, you know, we want to plan the itinerary for when you guys are coming. Right. Which spot would you like to take everyone to? Yes. Yes.

I think it's reasonable. He can't go on like this. All right, fair. Yours is the more mature and less conflict avoided. Yes. Way of doing things. I get it. It's not easy.

And if the husband didn't care and she didn't care, then fine. But I get why the husband cares. And he's kind of asking her to mention it to him, which I sort of don't blame him at that point. If you said it, at least you'll know you like, you did everything. That's it. You said it. You said it nicely in a way of like playing. planning if he's at that point, then really not going to do it.

Then like you said, then that's his. He has to go out in the world like this and everyone after he leaves the dinner is going to be like, oh my God, again. Right. And if that's not punishment enough for him, then like, that's, you know, his thing to live with. Right. All right.

Let's do some intentions. I will read the next one. Hi, Jordana, Naomi. Love the pod. Thanks for giving me a laugh every Tuesday. I'm hoping you can give me an intention for an issue I've been facing lately. I'm a 26-year-old woman who has struggled with hormonal acne since my teenage years. While my skin has gotten significantly better over the years, mostly with the help of birth

control, the acne is still visible and I often get painful breakouts. My skin has always been a source of insecurity, but at least in high school and college, many girls around me had the same problem. Now it feels like everyone else's skin is cleared up except for mine. On days or weeks when I'm experiencing a breakout, I'm sometimes so self-conscious that I cancel plans or choose to work from home instead of going to the office. When I do leave the house, I think about my skin all day long and I feel the need to cover up my spots with makeup, which only makes the breakouts worse. I hate feeling this way because I'm generally a very self-confident and outgoing person.

Other than my skin, I've always had a great relationship with my body and appearance, but lately it feels like I'm always comparing myself to friends with perfect skin, wishing I had what they have. I feel like this acne is the one thing holding me back from loving myself fully. Can you give me an intention to help me get through the days when my skin just isn't agreeing with me? How do I convince myself this is simply not a huge deal and preserve my competent energy during the periods? Love pimple popping fetch. Yeah, I'm glad she wrote in on this. I think we talk a lot about like weight insecurity and body insecurity and this is something that a lot of people do struggle with that isn't talked about as much that I think can be just as detrimental, if not more so,

to your self-esteem. Totally. And I mean, I've had, when I went off birth control, I had, like, several months of raging, like, serious hormonal acne. And I was surprised about how intensely I felt about it, too. Like, how it did make me extremely self-conscious. And every time I went out, I was, like, just, I think it's just feeling that everyone's, like, looking at your, like, looking at you and thinking what you're thinking when you see

your face, which is, like, this looks gross or, like, you know, like, when you have a big, I think every single person can relate to going out with a big pimple on their face and just assuming that everyone is watching them and zeroed in on it. Yes, for sure. And when it's like that painful, like cystic, and it's almost like you just lean over and you're like, ah, it actually hurts to the touch. Like, it's the worst. It's like a reminder even when your mind's not on it if something like touches it. So and it's weird because it's not, it's like a skin condition. And it's, but it's kind of normalized because so many people have it, but it still is something that is painful and doesn't look great and all that. And like she said, like when it's when you're in college or high school, like everyone's walking around with bad skin and you're kind of like, all right. Well, yeah. But it does, I totally agree. Like it feels like you almost, I remember almost getting like happy when I saw someone else with a pimple. I'd be like, crazy. Not just me. Like this normalizes it.

Like it normalizes just like leaving your house with bad skin. Yes. And it is true. It's not as, it's not something that people talk about the same way people are talking about, oh, I want to lose weight or I want to go to the gym or I want people aren't being like, oh, did you take your spiroanolactone, whatever that medication is today? Or, you know, how's your salicylic acid acne wash working for you? You know, people just aren't talking about it as much.

so it doesn't feel like it's normalized the same way other things are. So I get it validated, totally. So what do we do? I think one thing, and it's the same thing I talk about with people with weight stuff, is like you don't even notice, but the first thing you do when you look in the mirror is like look at the one thing that is not that you don't like, whether it's like a body image thing, like a shape of your body thing or a, you know, a blemish.

thing. So part of it is like retraining yourself to focus on your hair looks great that day. Like literally look at your hair when you look in the mirror. Or like she said, and this is what I'm going to come back to with her, is she said a couple of times in her email, I have a great relationship with my body and my appearance overall. And the one thing that's keeping me from loving myself fully is this thing. So even for this particular person especially, there are a lot of other things that you like about yourself. And if this, if you didn't have this, that you would really love yourself fully, which is amazing. And it's almost like, you can't have it all.

So if this is your sort of cross to bear, in some ways, having this hurdle, it can help you. It can help you to kind of do what we talked about in the beginning, which is choose your focus to rewire your brain. So this is your challenge. Everybody has one. Everybody has a thing that they have to choose to focus away from in order to rewire their brain to stay present in something that is not unpleasant, whatever that is. So one, it builds empathy.

Like you can relate to people who might have something that they're insecure about. out helps you kind of relate to other people about whatever it might be. So if you love your body, you can still relate to somebody who maybe doesn't because you have this thing. And this idea that you can like go out into the world with imperfections. Yes. Is also like a very, I think, important thing to feel like you can do. Totally. Like I, while validating that I totally understand the self-consciousness. Totally. I get it to, especially if it's like a gross like, I cannot, I cannot if there's like white, a white head, like has to be removed. I don't care what kind of damage I do.

I don't care what the aftermath is. I'll pay the price. But so like I totally 100% validated, but this is your challenge. This is what the universe has sent you to overcome so that you can be an imperfect person living in an imperfect world. and when you have this, the good news is it comes and it goes, right? It's like probably within a couple of days, maybe it's a different point in your cycle or something changes.

She said it's like a breakout that happens and then clears up. So in that moment, it's kind of like, all right, I'm at the gym. I'm doing my spiritual pushups today where I'm learning to kind of accept this about myself, try to focus my mind on my hair or like, my outfit or how cute I look in other ways and not lasering in on this area of blemish, which I'm sure is exactly the only thing she looks at when she's looking in the mirror. So I have a couple of intentions for her. And one, I don't know if she's going to like this one or if anybody likes it,

but I have a great relationship with my body and my appearance, her words, I can't have it all. So just kind of overall, this is pretty good. This is one thing that she doesn't like. Everybody's got something. So just kind of putting it into perspective. I like that one.

Yeah. You have to think, you know, I think the metaphor is used off and, you know, life is like you're handed a deck of cards. Seems like she has an overall, like, pretty good hand. Right. Is it a perfect hand? Right.

But it's like solid. Yes. It's gratitude. Yeah. I'm sure there are some listeners out there that, you know, maybe don't like any they don't like their body they don't they also have acne their hair is thinning like they have a multitude of things that they don't like about themselves so that's you know I'm sure there are people out there that have that maybe this this particular intention isn't

going to work well for you but for some listeners who are like okay either i'm a little 10 pounds heavier than i'd like but my skin looks great or i have grateful hair but my whatever i think you can most people can find something. So for her, I think that might help. And the other one is just kind of similarly choosing my focus during this passing moment of insecurity is building empathy and allowing me to rewire my brain. So it's giving you something that you have to work at. That's going to help you in all aspects of your life, like you said, going out into the world with imperfections and standing tall and confident is a skill that you, you need to kind of work towards. It's not just going to happen. So here it is. It's forcing you to do

that. I like that. It's a more empowering way to look at it. It's like an opportunity to train yourself to feel differently. Right. And for me personally, I think it always helped me to remind myself that no one is looking as intensely at me as I am. Totally. You're your own worst critic. So the things that you're thinking about your face. I mean, yeah, sometimes you look at someone, you think they have acne, and then you move on. Yes. Like you're like focusing on it too. Like you are the one who is hyperfixated on it. The world really isn't. Yes. And that's a good thing to remember too is like, okay, the last time you saw someone that had acne like you had acne. I mean, I wouldn't actually, I don't know if I would use that because you might just be extra critical because you have it. But like, chances are you're going to

look at someone and you're going to be like, yeah, you probably don't know, oh, there's, you know, she's got a little bump there or whatever, but that's it. Right. Move on. Nobody's sitting there like thinking about it for hours. Thinking, oh my God, how disgusting. What a pariah. Cover that up.

That's awful. I can't believe you left the house like that. Nobody is thinking that. Right. Whatever you're thinking, take it back at least 30 degrees. Yes. Agreed. Totally agree.

Let's do some triggers. All right. Okay, hello, Dr. Naomi and Jordana, loving the pod, keep up the great work. This situation happened a while back, but I was semi-fresh out of a long-term relationship and on a weekend trip with some of my girlfriends. We were chatting about online dating and one of my friends mentioned how one of her friends talked with her now boyfriend for three months before meeting him in person. I scoffed and said I would never entertain talking to someone from the apps for that long before meeting. This led to my friend asking how long I would talk to someone before meeting up for a drink. I said probably a week or so, to which they burst out laughing and called my method crazy.

I was genuinely baffled at their response and said, that's typically how it's done. And what's recommended by dating podcasts, shout out to you up. This did not convince them and they continued to laugh and make fun of my answer. It wasn't until another friend who met her current boyfriend via dating app spoke up and said that I was right and that's typically how most people online date. The reason this was especially triggering was because neither of these two friends have ever been on dating apps

and are both married to their first boyfriends. In contrast, I've been on and off the apps from most of my 20s, spent endless hours in therapy and continued to spend a significant amount of time exploring various dating topics via podcasts. However, it seems to me that being in a committed relationship is the greatest qualification when it comes to giving dating advice. I'm thankful that my friend spoke up, but also upset because if she didn't, I feel my dating

method would not have been taken seriously. So how triggered can I be? I think here's the thing. I think this is definitely triggering, but I think her original comment is what sort of, I think her original comment was maybe triggering for the person that she said it to with the boyfriend that she spoke to for three months. Right. She says herself, like, I scoffed and I said like, I would never do that.

So I think if someone says that about anything that anyone that has done, you're kind of immediately on the defensive. And it's like, well, that's rude. Yes. What I did. Like if someone said like, oh, I, you know, I slept with my husband on our first date. And then the other person's like, oh, I would never do that. Yes. That's, yeah.

I just think if someone said that to me, you'd have to understand that that was also like an initially rude thing. I agree that the response was triggering. but I think maybe it was like sort of a defensive response against someone who felt a little insulted. Yes, great point. I totally agree. She opened herself up for attack there because she was judging her friend's way. And she's also like, what are you dating this guy?

So it makes it kind of feel like, oh, you know, yeah, exactly. I totally agree. I do agree the triggering part of this is not that they, for her, I don't think, is that they judged her method. I think it's that she's being judged by someone who never had to do dating apps at all, ever. So I agree that someone who met their boyfriend in college or high school or graduate school really can't, doesn't know anything about dating. Because that's not dating like real life dating.

That's like college dating. She really just was telling just a story about her own situation. Right. So I can see why the friend would be annoyed that she was just like, ran. Like she's not, unless she was saying, I did this, you should talk to someone for three months before doing that. That would be annoying. But if she was just telling her own story and then she just sort of like spontaneously decided to insults, I guess her standards there for talking to someone for three months. I could see why that would be annoying.

But I agree. Like if I, if not for that first comment, I think this would be extremely triggering. Totally. I agree. I could see it being very annoying to be getting dating advice from people who've never such strong, like they're laughing at her kind of dating advice from someone who's never had to really date in that way. So I can validate that. But you kind of ask for it because you were being judgmental on the, everyone's entitled to have their own methods of what works for them.

Unfortunately, I think TikTok culture and all these. influencers that come out and give you the, here's the deal, right? After, you know, whatever it is, after three dates, if he doesn't this, then be done. Or, you know, if he doesn't ask you out within a week, then this is who he is. Right. Forget it all. Do what works for you. Obviously, your brain is working on your experience and all of our experience is different. And for the record, I actually, I think her method is correct. I think she should, I don't think you should be talking to someone for more than a week on a dating app. But her friend having met someone in college is at a totally different dating.

Not even the same point. Yeah, completely different set of circumstances. The rules would be, whatever the rules are. Like the context is totally different and like the two situations are just not at all comparable. Yes. And you, you have your experience. Do what works for you. I kind, three months does see.

like a long time. But some people like to just feel like they know someone or they have a banter or, you know, whatever works for you. Do what works. You know, if you're, like, if you're actually in college and you're talking to someone in class for three months. Oh, that's not, but that's the totally different thing. That's like, I don't know, what did she say?

They were talking online. How did they? I think they were talking. She said they weren't on the apps. No, those, they're. Oh, one of her friends talks with her. Yes. Okay.

Got it. There are two friends that met someone like their first boyfriends like. Oh, right. And then there are, then there's, I think, another friend who said that she was talking on the apps for three months, which does sound like a long time. But I think some people are like, all right, you're a stranger. I want to feel like I kind of like almost the old school like, you know, you've got male. Like, you know, we're kind of like getting to know each other online. Whatever.

Honestly. Yeah. To each. That's why like, yeah, because also everyone has their own separate ways of being in the world and prefers separate things. It's like saying there's one diet that's right for every single person. It's like, you know your own body and what works for you. Like you know your own mental state around dating and what works for you.

Yes. Yep. And you hit the nail in the head. You started off with a judgmental comment. They came back at you with a judgmental comment and came back hard. It sounds like laughing hysterically at you, which I agree. is a little absurd laughing at you hysterically because you'd like to be asked out within a week of matching on an app, I think is clearly, you know, maybe they were just trying to get you for,

you know, judging the friend. I agree. And I can see, again, I think it's, I think it's triggering because it's like she's in the struggle. And it's like, it almost feels like you're kicking someone when they're down. Like, you guys are like done with this thing and you're trying to still pretend like you're, you know anything that I'm dealing with out here totally I could see that being triggering but because she started it I'm going to kick it down to a four I agree four all right one more all right I dr. Naomi and Jordan I love the podcast it helps keep me sane between therapy appointments

I have a triggered scenario for you about therapists a couple of months ago my therapist told me she would be leaving the platform we used but that I could still see her with the new platform she'd be using. I told her I would set something up in the future. A couple of weeks later, I reached out to set something up, giving several availabilities and a week went by and I did not hear from her. I emailed her twice more with no answer. I was nervous something had happened to her and even started Googling her name to make sure nothing awful had happened. Finally, I found her practice website and reached out through there saying I was trying to get in touch with her. She finally got back to me then saying, sorry, things have been busy. And when I asked to do an appointment that week,

she said she couldn't do it so I offered an alternative. This was over a week ago and still no answer. How triggered should I be? Shouldn't a therapist have some way to communicate that they're not just abandoning you or ignoring you? An out of office message or something? Thank you. Therapist M.I.A.

Yeah. Does seem like the therapist is like trying to like ghost her. Yeah. I could see this is triggering. They're actually, I mean, I think because maybe she waited two weeks, the therapist felt like, okay, this isn't. an emergency. She's not like actively seeking treatment. So, but there is, there are rules against like just abandoning your patients. So you can't just be like, hey, sorry, changing platforms. Good luck.

Goodbye. You have to offer a, if you can't see that person, you have to offer them a referral to see somebody else or mutually agree that they're in an okay place and that they're going to discontinue therapy and then mindfully terminate therapy. Like I would have offered. an appointment, a follow-up appointment, even if we were going to end up terminating at some point, you have to do that in a intentional way. Yeah. And I mean, a lot of this stuff with therapists can be really triggering

because it's like this is like the person you're going to to feel, you want to feel valued by the person who you're at least telling all of your issues to. Totally. And like if you don't feel valued by that person, how are you supposed to feel safer, like telling an essential stranger? your innermost thoughts. Yes, yep. Remembered, thought about that this person cares enough about you and what you're going through to follow up and make sure you're okay. I mean, look, I get it. An email can get lost, especially when I was using my Yahoo email. There's probably, emails get lost. I have probably

been guilty of missing an email, especially then. So, but the fact that she sent all these follow-ups, the therapist apologized for, I don't if she apologized, but said, yeah, sorry, I've been busy. At that point, she should be aware that this person is trying to continue treatment. Even to say, I'm sorry, I've been busy. I don't know if I, I don't think I have time in my new schedule to like maintain a relationship. Can I give you a referral or something like? Something like that. Totally. I mean, I, if she's trying to get rid of her by ignoring her,

that is terrible. I don't think, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and say that. Might as well, date her. I would give her the benefit of the doubt and say that that's not what she's doing, that maybe she's just really overwhelmed, which again, unacceptable. One email missed, fine. You acknowledge it. If I ever miss someone's email that's trying to reach out to me, I'm very aware of making sure that this person's trying to connect. So I have to prioritize that and make sure that I get back to that person and try to, you know, get them in or like you said, refer them to someone else if I can't do that or at least let them know in some way.

So I could see why this is triggering, especially because she's been like harassing her almost, like really trying hard to set up this appointment and she's not responsive. So I would rate this as pretty triggering at this point. She said it's been a week. I really hope that by the time this airs, you've heard back from her and you've either set up the appointment. And I think if you do set up the appointment and you continue seeing her, I think you should address this. Agreed.

Or find someone new to help work through this issue with the previous therapist. Yes. Yes. And if she doesn't, then, you know, look, I validate it. it she's after the first slip up I'm too busy at that point you have to really put prioritize again do you want to see someone who values your experience with them right yeah totally give it like a seven and a half eight maybe yeah I would I would agree with that it is hard because you know you want you want to feel like your therapist is thinking about you and cares about you and one or even two but at that point it should be like Like here are my availability for the next.

She should be telling you, here are my availability for like the next month. Yeah. Even if it was like two months out. Yeah. Whatever it is. Or I, again, some sort of explanation or I don't have time is also a good, a valid response. Yes. Here's another option for you.

Here's some other therapists. Yes, totally agree. The fact that she did none of that, I would agree with your triggered rating. Ah, I'm sorry. Yeah. That's tough. Yeah, this is a crappy feeling to have to be really chasing her down. But look, again, for anyone out there who's tried to reach out to me, and if I've missed an email,

especially if it's gone to Yahoo, that's probably why I was just checking. Oh, my God, it's awful. I was checking. I checked that email still, but it's like just overrun by, I don't want it forwarded it because then I'll get all the junk forwarded. All the spam. Yeah, it's like overrun. by junk, I feel like I live in an infested, rat infested apartment.

That Yahoo email address. Just, I mean, next time you're here, I'll have to help you. Find a way to do that. I don't know. I mean, on the Gmail, though, I always get the ones that are like, greetings of the day. Whenever an email starts with greetings of the day, it's like. You know, it's bad. Right.

Well, you know what you could do is you could do an automatic reply on the Yahoo one. that's like I've moved email addresses if you would like to like contact me email me at right and then if it's a real person then they can yeah actually follow up there if it's not a robot or like a ad sale yeah that's a good idea they'll actually email all right cool figuring stuff out here cool multitasking of it yes all right well this was fun this was fun good lead up to the holidays episode yeah send us all those holiday family drama emails and if you take our advice and lean in to some of those little positive moments, even just a moment, you know, even a moment where someone that you typically have a hard time with, like, I had that this weekend where, like,

there have been family members that I've typically maybe had difficult times with, and I just had a moment of like, this is pretty good. Like, allow that to really sink in. And we're happy to hear updates on that stuff, too, if you guys take our advice and find those little sensory moments of joy. give us some examples we could do some positive stuff on this show maybe it's a little boring but you know every now and then if you send a good one yeah let's do it and i do appreciate some people will email me directly and say you know thank you this was you know i tried this or this was helpful or so i love those i'm always happy to hear stuff that works for sure

that uplifts me so thank you for that all right that's our time great work today Jorge Morelas Picoe and Rebecca Salis McCown. Editing by Basilio Perez. Gas booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com. We'll leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.