Oversharing - How To Quit Your Job In A Healthy Way

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

Today on Oversharing, we begin with Naomi’s family Halloween recap and Jordana’s recap of the big news at Betches this week. The Overshare email comes from an overworked Betch who’s struggling with guilt. How do you reconcile putting your own needs above those of your coworkers? Our Betchicist answer goes out to Dr. Betch, who feels uncomfortable diagnosing family members. In response to a listener voicemail, Dr. Naomi offers some intentions to a new mom struggling with her in-laws. And we’re feeling triggered by DINKS and pregnant belly shaming. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. So great to be back recording with you.

It was a fun weekend for me. How about you? Oh, yeah. I saw a little dress-up pick. You looked super cute. Super cute. Thank you. I did Barbie.

Mike and I did Barbie and Ken. Oh, that is actually perfect. It was fun. I got him to wear the blonde wig, so we really went all out. He was like good sport with that. He's not typically. I feel like some guys are like love an opportunity to dress up and some guys are not that into it.

I feel like he's like somewhere in the middle. Okay. Okay. So we just moved into our house and we got invited to a part, like a Halloween part. party in our neighborhood. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. You're making friends already. Yeah. It was like fun. And we're, I always say this about like us. We're not the most like outgoing like friendly people. So we're like a little nervous like going somewhere where we don't know everyone like we usually do. Right. Totally. So it's tough. It's funny with the costume you're like I want to like show that I'm like

like in it like you know you have to be like in it like not too cool for it. But also like. not scare people. Not going too hard, right. But it was fun. It kind of, it's funny. Like you talk, you know, we talked about this before, like, getting out of your comfort zone and just like meeting people is not, for me, and for me, and I know for a lot of, like, relatively introverted people is not like so exciting at its face value.

Right. But I do find when you do it, it's, it's not that bad. And we had a really fun time. Well, Halloween is such an interesting time to meet people for the first time when you're like, you know, wearing like this blonde wig and probably... I wonder if they think I'm blonde now. They've really do what I look at. Right.

It's just such a funny time to meet a new person, especially someone you're going to continue to see that's like in your neighborhood. But fun though still because it's like everybody's kind of forced to be sort of silly and cool and just like chill. Yeah. Because you're wearing like a stupid wig or whatever it is you're right. You can't take yourself too seriously like that. Exactly.

It almost takes the pressure off like finding the perfect. outfit for like introducing yourself to a neighborhood like a first yes yes you know do you want to go like too fancy not fancy this kind of like takes all that out of it so I kind of like it because I'm not good at like choosing what to wear like I don't know I'm always like second guessing all that stuff so I thought this was almost a better way to to go into it all right nice that sounds fun I'm excited for you that's cool thanks yeah we had a really fun time and then Friday I went to a little celebratory dinner with Eileen and Sammy for selling our company, which was also really fun. Really fun.

Super exciting. That is the whole story of the three of you. It's so funny because I have, I think I sent, I sent you a picture of it. I found this old book. It was like the get-together girls or something. And it was that you guys had from like seventh grade. Really? Didn't I send this to you?

I thought I sent it to you. It was like you had written little comments. there were like a, it was like a little hardcover book about all these girls that were like hanging out. It was like a kid's book. But you guys had like written in it like, you know, with an arrow to the girl with the curly hair and like Jordy's frizz or whatever. And it was like, you guys were like kind of.

I don't think you showed me this. You were like kind of roasting each other in the book. And it was from, I mean, it must have been from middle school. I'm sure. That sounds like my middle school selves. Right. Right. It was like just kind of, you know, busting on each other.

It was like someone's parents wouldn't let them go out. And it was like so-and-so's parents. I forget what it was. But you guys were like making fun of each other via this little book. That's very funny. That's very funny. I have in my bin of like old things. Do you have it in your house?

I have it here somewhere. I can send it to you. That's so funny. Yeah. So I guess it's a good, it's funny. It was a good mix of like old friends and new friends. Right. Totally. All right. But it's just so cool that you've known each other forever and now, you know, have gone through this whole business, like created your whole career like together and

with each other. And I mean, I find that whole thing fascinating is probably for another time, but just how to navigate being friends, staying friends, and then having all these big decisions. Yeah, it's like we got married. Right. Totally. Like without, without even realize, you're like, okay, let's do this thing. And before you know it, you're like, you know. Oh, totally. I think we spend more time for, I mean, when we used to go into the office every day, at least, we would spend more time with each other than with our significant others of

just like a marriage, so many decisions to make together. And, you know, just like a marriage, we've had our good times and times that were like a little bit more contentious. So it's been very cool to do that with the two of them. But yeah, I got a lot going on. It's funny because like at the beginning of this. year, my three goals were to, you know, buy a house. Check. Yes. Sell this business and have a baby. Working on the last one. Yeah, but it's funny because I remember talking to a friend and she's like,

well, what order? Like, how much do you want each? And the baby was like number one. But it kind of almost shows you like how like if I could have like, I feel like I've been kind of relaxed about the other two just knowing that they were going to happen and like feeling confident in what was happening there. And I brought the most anxiety to the baby one. I do wonder, it just seems like the one I like was like trying to like force to happen the most. It seems like that has that strategy is almost backfiring a little bit. Right, right, right. Yeah, I could see the thought process there.

But I think it's just how the universe is panning out. And maybe it's all happening for the right reasons. You're going to get all the ducks in a row. And, you know, we had the opposite thing where we, we ended up, I don't know if you remember this, but we moved into, kids in that one bedroom. Yeah. We had a one bedroom apartment that we were trying forever. We lived in Long Beach, Long Island, and it was right after Hurricane Sandy. And then we realized that we were having a baby.

And Long Beach was destroyed. And nobody wanted to buy our apartment. And it was just a disaster. And so we're like, all right, we'll have the, you know. So we were squishing. up in there, not able to get our house for a long time. And that was its own stress. Not the same. I'm not making that comparison. But it's sort of like, it's nice that you have everything ready to go. Right. And I'm doing some work on my house as I'm sure you guys have heard on

various podcasts. So maybe I'm just like, I'm creating the house to welcome baby, just doing it in that order. Totally. And I think once you have the baby, whatever projects you have going on will probably not be done as efficiently as if you have all this time to just focus on that now. Exactly. I have a feeling I wouldn't be able to spend like six hours removing wallpaper with a newborn. Totally. But speaking of, you know, fertility and babies and all that, if you haven't listened yet, we have now three episodes up of baby steps where I talk about fertility with Naomi and my own journey.

to get there. And then we interview a bunch of other people. Right now we have also Jessel from the Real Housewives of New York. And we also have Emily Oster, who is kind of a data hero of mine. And that episode is up now too. And we have a bunch more episodes coming with some really cool people. So check it out if you haven't already. And let me know what you think because I think we put together a really meaningful show that takes a heavy topic and makes it a little lighter. a little more digestible. So totally. That's the best way to do it because it can be heavy.

And sometimes on this show, we get heavy. But, you know, it's really nice when you can like, you know, that moment when you're like feeling something really heavy and then like two seconds later you laugh. It just, yeah. It just is like almost a double release. It's like you're releasing the negativity. And then you're finding that two seconds later you can also laugh really hard about something. it just gives you this confidence that like I can feel like in deep grief in one second and then 30 seconds later I can laugh again.

So there's something really powerful about that. Totally. And sometimes it almost feels like weird when you're like because you're like, oh, is it okay to like laugh and have a little fun with this subject even though there's like parts of it that are super painful. And I've always found that like that's like the best part of like if you can find something funny in almost any. situation. Some people think that's insensitive, but I think it's like, that's the only way through it. Right. Well, we were talking in the first episode about how cool it is that you're doing this and kind of like, I thought maybe when I started this, I would be like pregnant or like further along. So you almost can do whatever. Like the other benefit of this is like, I'm in it so I can laugh at

you guys. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. If you like already down. Right. If you already had your baby and then we're like, you know, making light of it. People are like, yeah, of course you could laugh. You have a baby. It's like, no, you can laugh at whatever you want right now. Exactly. I'm just like the rest of you. Yeah, I think it's, we put together a really good show.

So check it out. And should we get into our episode? Yeah, let's do it. Cool. Okay. Also, we have a voicemail this episode. And if you want to leave a voicemail, 646-363, 629, I love getting the voicemails, hearing the voicemails.

It really adds a little personal touch to the show. Or you can email us at oversharing at fetches.com. All right, I'll read the first overshare. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I really love your podcast. I agree with Jared. The two of you together have such a calm and soothing vibe. I like to pretend I'm in therapy when listening at work.

It's fun. I feel like that might make you more calm throughout the work day. The only way to multitask actually going to work and doing therapy at the same exact time is by listening to this podcast. I love it. That should have been our pitch. Speaking of work, I'm struggling with how to quit my job. This is my first job in a new field for me, and I've been here for two years. I've learned a lot, and I definitely like most of the people. However, it's a crazy place to work. It's chaotic every day, and the boss is insane, which creates a very toxic work environment. Another problem is that we're severely understaffed. I've been pushing for

them to hire more people from my department for over a year, and we've only been getting less help. have the opportunity for a new job that would be a step up from where I am now and help me advance in this new field. However, I would feel extremely guilty for leaving my coworkers with even less help to deal with the volume of work here. My question is, how can I look out for myself and leave this toxic place without feeling extremely guilty? Sometimes I feel like I should just stay out of obligation or until things calm down, but things haven't calmed down for so long. I'd love to hear your thoughts, sincerely guilty and gutless. This is a great question because I personally talk to a lot of people that are in these situations where they're like swarmed at work and they keep saying they need help and whoever's above them is just not hiring people and keep having this feeling of like, okay, well, when it gets better or if it gets better or once they hire more people, this will all feel okay. and a lot of times it's a long wait if it happens at all.

So I'm glad that this listener is thinking about leaving. And I hope that we can help her find a way to feel less guilty about it. Well, it reminds me. I mean, sometimes you hear this about like relationships too where people are like, you need to change this thing. Like, you know what I mean? Like you need to drink less. You need to drink less.

You need to drink less. And the person's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, kind of like in that same way where you're talking to the boss. Yes. And then they don't and you're kind of like, did I give it enough time? Like it feels mean to leave or some of those things. So or even something maybe even more benign of, you know, you need to text to be back faster. Right, right.

Yeah. Right. And I think there's a fear of like leaving right before the good thing happens. And then, you know, you could have had the comfort of being in this place, but the thing, minus the thing you don't like. But I really, that's a fantasy. I think that it sounds like it's probably time. But the guilt is big because they probably all talk about how overworked they are and they're sharing. And right now she's commiserating.

And then soon she's going to be like, sorry, can't relate to that anymore. I'm out. Right. But although here's the thing, though, everyone has the ability to do the same thing that she's doing. It's not like they are trapped there. Like everyone can also look like has the agency to stay or look for something else. And maybe her leaving will inspire someone who that happens a lot of the times you see that these companies too.

One person leaves and then it gives everyone else like an idea. Totally. And I do think that a lot of times and I don't, we have no idea what type of industry she's in, but you are a commodity and they will squeeze as much juice out of the lemon as they can get. So if everyone just keeps showing up and doing the work and, you know, occasionally make a complaint, it's almost like the relationship example where you just keep asking, I'd like it if you'd text me back or I'd like it if you'd say more nice things or I'd like this and I'd like that. And you're like, okay, you know, she'll get mad at me for two hours and then eventually she'll get

over it and we'll go back to normal. That's not a recipe for having somebody make any real change versus if you say, okay, I'm leaving, and then that starts an avalanche of other people leaving the company. Now I'm back to that. Maybe they'll realize that this isn't just people getting annoyed for a minute and complaining that there's real changes that they need to make because you're a resource. And if they can get a certain amount of work with the least amount of resources. That's capitalism. Yeah, exactly. So they're going to do it until they can't anymore. So you leaving, you can look at it this way, perhaps is an opportunity for you to start, which what you described was like, you know, this kind of contagious quitting thing, which maybe will

help the company realize that they have to actually listen to their employees. So that might be one thing that can help you feel a little bit less guilty. Right. Yeah, no, I totally, totally agree. And here's the other thing. I think that there's a way to leave in a classy way. And just like there's a way to break up with someone in a classy way. I think you can, when it comes to work, now we're talking about work specifically, I think you can, if you feel guilty, you can give a good amount of notice. You can make sure everything you're doing is very well transitioned. You know, there's people who make like really good transition docs, very clear, like just help the people who are still there not be like scrambling when you're gone.

And to just say like exactly what you said to us, I've had a great time here. I've learned a lot. I feel like I'm looking for a different kind of environment. And that happens all the time. People leave jobs all the time. People leave relationships all the time. It's like if you can do it in a way that is respectful and graceful, I don't think anyone will be mad at you.

And especially if you're trying, if you make sure that the people left behind are not leaving them with a complete mess. Totally. I love that as a starting point because it's kind of, of like what we talk about. Control what you can, right? You can control giving them everything that you said, the best possible transition, easiest possible transition. Control what you can and then relax into the discomfort of the parts that you can't control. Like, I'm sure there's going to be people that are going to be, you know, disappointed, hurt, angry, feel whatever they're going to feel.

But if you know, okay, I did this really thoughtfully, I controlled all the things I can, made the transition plan, like you said, at that point, all you can do is just relax into the discomfort of people not being thrilled. I don't know if she's friends with them. Maybe she, you know, there is a chance that you might lose a friendship if there's someone that really doesn't understand what you're doing here. But I think professionals are expected to grow. They're expected to move forward and advance in their career. So this isn't totally like a, you know, out of the, you know, you know, universe thing that you're doing where you're quitting and moving on to something else, another opportunity.

Totally. And as someone who runs a company, people leave. I don't take it personally. Like, you know, there's like, there's a natural cycle of things. And sometimes people like move to a new role. That's like, doesn't, I mean, breakups feel a lot more personal, I would say. Right. But even then, it's like you can break up with someone in a way that's like, okay, I'm going

leave the apartment like for you you can have you know I'll still pay my rent well you can stay here for X months and like I've thought I've thought through this I'm trying to make it as easy as possible I'll tell X Y and Z whatever like taking on a little bit more than an equal burden in like she could leave and be like I'm not making any documents I'm out by yes and I'm glad that she's writing in and even that you're giving that advice because I think sometimes the temptation is to like tuck tail and run because you feel so bad or you're afraid of everyone being angry that you kind of do end up doing it in sort of a rushed, avoidant, you know, scared way, which then is going to leave a bad taste in people's mouths

about you. So I think if you can be upfront, communicative, and just kind of speak your truth, there's nothing wrong with it, helping out your coworkers and whatever way you can before you leave. And just being, I'm sure everyone's probably thought of the same thing. And I would be shocked if there wasn't like an avalanche of quitting after this and maybe the company will realize they need to listen to their employees. Right. The worst position is like when you're the last to go and you're like, oh, I didn't. Yes. So, yeah, you're a pioneer here. I think it's great. You have another opportunity. Go get it. Be open. Communicate. Just everything you're feeling is valid and reasonable. So just communicate clearly and control what you can. And then you have to just

relax into the people that are going to be stressed and having a bad day and hear that you're leaving and be annoyed with you. Like that may happen. And also that's okay and doesn't mean that you're doing anything wrong. Let's do a batch assist. Do you want to read it? Yeah, I'll read this one. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I'm hoping to get your thoughts on people from your personal life asking for professional advice to give you some background. I'm the only doctor in my family. I knew she was going to be a doctor when she said that because people always do that. Because like I just feel like for some reason when you're a doctor, people are always, I don't know, like ask, you know, like I have a little mole or I have a little. I guess that's the clearest one. Yeah. It just popped into my mind at first,

but I guess lawyers might get that too. I don't know. No, but like you have a legal problem a lot less often and then you have like a little thing. Right, a cough for a thing. Yeah, totally. I graduated from medical school a few years ago, and since then I've been almost exclusively working in my specific specialty. Ever since I was in med school,

I have had friends and family members asked me for medical opinions on anything from COVID to knee pain to weird moles. In the past, I would usually dodge these questions by telling them not to stress too much, but to mention the problem to their own doctor. But over the years,

the situation has gotten more complicated. as I have a cousin who suffers from illness, anxiety disorder, and is frequently convinced she's dying from a rare disease. Even when her doctor orders tests and the results are reassuring, she will come to me asking for my interpretation and insinuating that her doctor, the radiologist, or the lab may have made some mistake. I honestly don't feel qualified to answer most of her questions because I have a relatively basic education in areas of medicine outside of my own specialty, such as reading x-rays and other imaging studies. However, I usually try to say something reassuring because if I say anything to the effect of, I don't know for sure. She'll likely take this to me that I'm actually concerned and just don't want to be the one to tell her she has some terrible disease.

In reality, I don't think this is the case at all. It's not that I mind taking the time to talk to her about this kind of thing, but I'm not really comfortable questioning a more experienced physician who specializes in the relevant field. On the flip side, I'm slightly afraid that one day I'll be wrong and have to live with the guilt that I told my cousin everything was fine when it actually wasn't. Dr. Naomi, have you experienced family members or friends asking you for psychological or medical advice you don't feel qualified to give?

Do you have any recommendations for handling these interactions without either overstepping your limits or sending someone into a spiral of doubt? And more generally, to either of you have thoughts on setting boundaries with people from your personal life when it comes to your profession. Thanks so much and hope to hear from you, paging Dr. Betch. I like this question. I agree it's mostly doctors, but I think that anyone can have like that sort of thing

where someone is asking you to do something because you're in the field. You don't necessarily like, one, you don't, sometimes you don't want to. Like even for me, it's like people want to talk to me about this job all the time or ask stuff about that or send me a meme as our brothers do, but which I'm always thankful for.

But sometimes you're kind of just like, I don't really like I'm on a break. Like I don't really want to talk about this. Even if it wasn't like, oh, am I qualified or my not qualified? And I'm sure you have that with yourself because I'm sure everyone comes to you with like their therapy type issues. Do they not? Yeah. I mean, sometimes we have one couple friend that they're just like always in a fight.

Like they're always, you know, having some disagreement. And so a lot of times when we hang out with them, you know, within a few minutes, they're kind of like, all right, who's right? who's right and who's wrong. They're in couples therapy. Yes, they're in couples therapy, which to be honest, I mean, I love them and their relationship is just so like, I don't know, it's interesting. I have so much love for both of them that I don't mind it and I like kind of helping them.

But there are times when I'm going into it and I'm sort of like, oh, gosh, are we going to just hang or are we going to do couples therapy today? I'm not sure which type of dinner we're heading into. I like those questions too, like because, you know, I do like you. up and like I actually that's the stuff I actually like maybe more I'm like I would be interested in solving a couple's or or choosing who's right yeah so like I do think that happens but I you know the part that I think she's touching on which I can relate to also as a couple's therapist is there's some places where you're like I am not really this is not my area of expertise like I think

couples therapy is something that like I probably could help couple with, not that I necessarily want to do that when we're out for like dinner, although I really don't mind that much. But if it was something that's out of my comfort zone, what I'm wondering for her is because this started when she was in med school and I know it's very competitive environment and she was probably trying to prove herself and learn everything that I wonder if there's a part of her that doesn't want to say that's out of my area of expertise. I cannot answer that question. I don't know. I don't know. Right. I don't know. I can't help you. Like maybe there's a part of her. Like my recommendation to her is just to say, I don't, I really don't know

the answer to that. I don't know how to read x-rays. I've only, I've taken one class in my life in radiology. It's not my area of expertise. I don't know. Like maybe there's a part of her that has to kind of admit to herself that she doesn't really know. And that's why there's different specialties in medicine because you can't know everything. Right. And I guess she's afraid that that saying, I don't know, will cause her cousin to panic. But I think she could just preface it with that. I want you to know, I'm not saying this because I think it's an issue.

I'm not saying because I don't think it's an issue. I really have no idea. And it would be worse for you for me to tell you something that I didn't really know or didn't feel confident in than for me to tell you that I don't know. Right. I do think totally. I think there's a thing when you're first in school and trying to prove yourself where she almost maybe like wanted to know enough that she was kind of pretending

perhaps to know things about things that she didn't know. And now she's become like the doctor of everything. Like from, you know, from radiology to dermatology. She's like doing it all where I think the solution is, if you have a question about whatever your specific, her specific areas, and she can say this to the cousin. Let's say her area is cardiology. If you have a cardiology question, I'd be happy to help you. That is my one area that I do feel qualified to really help you and guide you. But other than that, I really don't think I'd be doing you a service by, you know, trying to diagnose you or give you.

Because I don't think she should really be reassuring her. you know she could say you know i i you know like i think it's going to be fine or something like any friend might say but i think her best thing is to get this cousin used to getting the answer she has to desensitize her cousin to the answer i don't know that's not my area of expertise right and when she hears that enough she's going to stop asking because she's going to not be scratching the itch exactly and i can understand why the cousin would be like i don't know is she's like she doesn't want to tell me so she's saying she doesn't know because that's right Maybe what I would, that was what I would think if I heard that from a doctor,

where you were like, Naomi, should we stay together? I don't know. Like that means, right, right. That probably means no. But it's, in this case, I actually think it's, she just needs to like, like you said, reiterate that multiple times. Preface that multiple times. And then just be like, you know, I told you, I don't, I don't really know.

Like, she'll stop asking. Yeah. Yes, totally. And, you know, it's funny because part of the reason, Like sometimes I'll talk to someone who's like an investment banker. And I kind of want to be like, so, you know, got any tips? Like, what do you think? You know?

But sort of like part of what they're getting paid for is that they may sometimes be right and they may sometimes be wrong. Like that part of that risk is like, you know, it's built into the job. So she's not getting paid for this. Her malpractice insurance isn't going to cover her for like, conversation at the breakfast table with her cousin if she's wrong or like her guilt. So I think the best thing to do. And I know it feels a little cold, you know, like. Well, I think it does, but it's also kind of like, you know, it's, we're colder to just give

someone false positive reassurance or tell something that's someone, something that's wrong. And even with the stock stuff, it's like sometimes it's like the answer is a lot more complicated. And you really have to know what you're talking about in order to like give that advice. They're not just usually just like randomly picking stuff. They're like selling this to get that. It's like they don't, you know, it's a little more complicated. And you know, what's your risk tolerance? Right.

You know, there's like. Totally. Yeah. So it is way more complicated than her just, you know, looking at your mole and being like, I think it looks all right. Yeah. I think there's also with medicine, what I've come to know also from like being a doctor so much the past couple of years.

It's like so much of it is not. You want a black and white answer. Mm-hmm. You want like, okay, this is like, this is terrible. Like, this is what's happening. Or like this result is perfect. You're fine. Like, most things are sort of in a middle gray area.

And you have to know just like the stock stuff with like risk tolerance and all this other data. Like you have to know a lot more about the person and their medical history and all the other stuff to like really make an assessment. Even if you do know what you're talking about, even if it is your specialty. Right. Totally. I agree. So I think this is this cousin in specific, if we're talking about the cousin, she's anxious. And usually when she talks to you and you tell her, I think it's fine. I really think it's nothing. I think you're okay. It's like soothing to her. So you are a soothing, you have been a soothing person. So she's going to keep doing this and keep coming to you because

she's getting soothed by your answers. But I think you're realizing that the soothing is not really doing her is not in her best interest or yours. So I think, unfortunately, you're going to have to switch it up to this is not my area of expertise. I really don't have enough knowledge in this. I, you know, if you're worried about it, I would talk to a doctor and keep saying that over and over again until she stops seeing you as like a place to go to soothe her medical anxiety. I'm sure you'll get there. Good luck. Okay. Let's do some intentions. This one is a voicemail. Again, if you want to send in a voicemail, the number, again, is 646, 363, 6294. We love a voicemail, don't we, Naomi?

Yes, my favorite. Okay, let's play the tape. Hi, I am calling with an intention request. So first, I just want to say thank you both for everything that you do. I think you're both so insightful, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I love listening to you all every week. I'm actually a clinical social worker myself and just love. hearing all of your discussions about mental health and responding to all the emails that you get and all of that good stuff.

But I'm calling because I'm needing, I mean of an intention. I had a baby seven weeks ago, and I've been struggling a lot with my in-laws. And they're actually very kind, helpful people. I've never had a problem with them. They live like 20 minutes away, and they're pretty, respectful of boundaries and just generally helpful and I've always liked them and ever since having a baby everything they do has been annoying me so much and it's very strange like his my husband's mom will call him to just check in on how the baby's doing and I'll hear her calling and I'm in the other room and I'm

like oh my god she's smothering us like this is so ridiculous and like everything they do every time they want to come over it's just annoying me so much and I'm finding that I'm already dreading like the next time they're going to come over and all of this stuff. And it's not that they're not, I mean, they come over and they've been really helpful. This is a few times since the baby's been born and they've been helpful. And I mean, my mother-in-law does want to hold the baby like constantly, which annoys me too, but like everything she's doing annoys me. And I do think a big part of it is that my mom is very sick and she's likely, she's

disabled and she's likely not going to have much time left. And it's been kind of an ongoing diagnosis where she's been declining over the last few years. And I think a big part of it might be that I'm still kind of mourning the loss of maybe her not being involved in my baby's life. And I don't know if that's like then making me really annoyed with my mother-in-law because I don't know if that's maybe part of it. But she's just kind of struggling a lot. And I don't want to feel like annoyed all the time at my in-laws. So I'm just wondering if there's some kind of intention I can use because dealing with way is not fun. And I don't like those taking up my free time. Like I'm sitting here dreading when they come back from vacation because I know they're going to want to come see the baby

and it's like not a fun way to live. So anyway, hopefully you can help. I'm sure you can. And thanks for all you do. Bye. Interesting. I feel like people get a lot more annoyed with their in-laws once they have kids. Yeah. And I think she's touching on a part of it. bit that a lot of people don't recognize. For her, it's so glaring. I mean, first of all, I want to just validate her that it sounds like what she's going through is really hard. You know, she's a seven week old, which is a really, you're in the thick of it.

And she's dealing with, like, losing her mother at the same exact time. It's really, really hard. I think you kind of have, in some ways, like this fantasy. of, you know, we think about like the fantasy that we have of being parents, right? Like, oh, I'm going to, which you probably have from time to time. Like, oh, I'm going to hold my baby and we're going to do this and we're going to do that. And this is how it's going to look. But I think there's sometimes a little bit of a fantasy of like how your parents are going to play into that.

You know, like my mom's going to come over and she's going to do this and she's going to be. Right. Grandma. And then seeing that fantasy kind of being played out. but it's not your mother and it's your husband's mother and you're dealing with what sounds like the impending death of her mom, which sounds like it's going to be happening relatively soon. So I want to validate that how much she's going through and that this is coming out. I think her own grief and loss is coming out in this irritation.

I think she hit the nail on the head because when I was first listening to it, I was kind of like, all right, what is the underlying irritation? And then that seems like the perfect storm for being irritated. I think the issue is how she has to allow her grief to be seen, first by herself, then by her husband, and then maybe even by her in-laws, where it doesn't feel like I'm just like faking this thing and pretending to be happy, go lucky when I see you holding the baby. and like I really do long for my mom. And I wish my mom could be doing that and going through this with me,

especially because she's like the mom, you know, like, right. You kind of want your, it's very natural to like want your mother as you're learning to become a mother, especially if she's had a good relationship with her. Yeah. No, I think that's a very astute take on this. And yeah, and it can feel, I think it would be one thing if she was like relying it to her husband, but to relay that to her in-laws feels like maybe they're not on that intimate of a relationship.

Like she says, they're nice and they have good boundaries, but it's not necessarily that they're so close. And I can see why you're kind of like, I don't know if I, I don't know if it doesn't feel so natural to be like to my in-laws, this is like kind of painful to me because it just, I could see why she'd be hesitant to go there. Yeah, I could see that too. I think you could work your way there, you know, like not even tying it at first necessarily. to like, yeah, it annoys me when you hold my baby because I wish it was my mom.

Like, I don't know that I would come out with that right off the bat. But I think she could open up a little bit. Like, it is really hard to be a new mom and have my mom not be able to be a part of it. Like, I think that that, even if it's just at first with the husband, but I think that's, like, I think sometimes there are, we hear all the time, like, in law that there's like this kind of, conflict with in-laws. And a lot of times, I think there is, you know, this, this, whether it's like, okay, you're fighting for your husband's attention, you know, like we got one a few weeks ago where the husband was going on vacation with his mother and it was really pissing off the wife, like she was about to be pregnant or pregnant and they were going to go on vacation, you know, so there's,

there's always this little bit of like, there's usually something underlying the resentment. if you feel like your husband's being taken advantage of or he's taking his time or his attention or in this case I think it's pretty obvious that it just feels like almost like a little bit of a jealousy which we talk about that all the time like normalizing that feelings of jealousy are okay I think sometimes when it's your partner that you're jealous of it feels really icky right because you're like we're supposed to be on the same team like and also it just feels like it feels like you to be like oh, I don't want your mom who's a new grandma to be like holding my baby. Right.

Right. So I could see why she doesn't like the way this feels because it almost feels like maybe I'm jealous of my husband because he has his mom or like I'm resentful of the mom because I wanted to be my mom, which I want to normalize. Right. Doesn't mean she's like a bad person. Yes. Yeah. I think a lot of people in this situation might feel that way. It's sort of like, you have this thing that I really want and there's no way.

And for her, it doesn't sound like there's even a chance for it to happen. Like for some people, it might just be like, oh, my mother lives far away and she doesn't come a lot. But this sounds like this is just not something that is going to be an option for her. So the only real recommendation I have is that I hope that you're taking time to allow your grief to be seen by yourself, like allowing your allowing yourself to go there and like feel those feelings and like recognize how sad you are that your mom's not a part of your baby's life in the way that you wanted her to be and communicating that to your husband at first and then maybe even your in-laws not about them necessarily but just about like guess it's really hard for me you know yeah envisioned my mom

being here and doing all these things and I think if she can allow her grief to be seen, it might reduce the irritability a little bit. Because I think the irritability is like the seeping out of the grief. Totally agree. Do you have an intention? What I wrote for her is when she starts to feel irritable, that she tell herself, this is my grief asking to be seen, take this time to care for myself. So I think in that moment she can realize, okay, maybe she needs to just her mother-in-law's there, right? It's a break that she can take in that moment. Maybe, I don't know, we can't get into that whole dynamic of how it would feel for her

when her mother-in-law comes over just at first, just to see how it plays out. If she finds herself getting irritable to be like, okay, maybe this is a sign that I need to go, like, write my journal. And like, express all the stuff that, you know, whatever her grief is, like get that out and just like express that or call her mom, go upstairs and call her mom and, or, or, whatever she could do in that moment, journal or cry or reach out to her mom or do anything she can to allow those feelings of grief to come up and out. Yeah.

Instead of feeling like I have to shove them down and like sit here and watch my mother-in-law hold the baby while I'm shoving down all these feelings of grief. So even if it's like maybe that's her chance to go for a walk by herself and listen to music or call a friend and vent and talk or I think that. those moments of irritability are her opportunity to say, okay, there's something that I need to see in myself that is asking to be seen. And just sitting here with this and stuffing it down is making it turn into this irritability. Right. So I hope she's in therapy too. That might be helpful as a place to kind of explore her grief. I think she said she is a therapist, right?

Yeah, but it doesn't mean she doesn't need a therapist. Yeah. So I think if she could feel, if she could like kind of release this grief energy that she's holding, I think it will probably help in her irritability with her in-laws. Because it's coming from a, it sounds like they're fine, they're great. It's not really them. It's when you stuff down emotions, that's what I always say. Like if couples come in and they're like, the way he breathes at night is so annoying, then I'm like, okay, you're angry about something and you're stuffing it down. And like, that's why the way that it's not about the way he's breathing obviously yeah some other thing and i think even if she says that to them which again could come off i can understand why that would come off she says it

like in a sensitive way of like there's a part of me that's really excited and it's of course happy that you're here and happy that you're like able to spend so much time but there's another part of me that's really jealous because i don't have that and if you almost say that i find like you say that it breaks the ice and then it almost makes the feeling disappear to an extent. Because I think the most frustrating thing about those things is kind of like when you feel like you have to pretend, like you said. Yes.

It's like if you could be real about the moment, it usually goes away. Yes. It's like holding it and stuffing it and then like trying to smile and like be whatever. And there's, I'm sure if her in-laws are kind and loving and they know what her mom is going through, they're not going to be offended. especially if you just phrase it like, I, you know, I'm so happy you guys are so, like, as a thank you to them that you guys are here and you're so helpful. But sometimes, if I'm honest, it makes me really miss my mom and it makes me long for my mom or even like you said,

jealous that my mom can't be here doing the things that you guys do. I cannot imagine that that will be received with anything other than empathy. Give it a shot. Give it a shot. or even if you can't communicate it, I would just at least make sure that when you feel irritable, that's your body telling you, like, you've got your own stuff that you need to deal with now. And you have help with the baby. So it's a perfect time for you to go take care of yourself. Take advantage of that and try to, I totally see where, like, why it would be hard to say it to them. But find an opening. All right. Let's do some triggered. Let's do it. I will read the first trigger. Hi, Dr. Anna and Dr. Naomi, I have a triggered first trigger. Hyderdana and Dr.

you. My best friend and I have known each other for over 15 years. She is a truly wonderful friend in so many ways. She's the person who has been there for me the most in my adult life. Although life has taken us in some different directions and we now live a long plane flight apart, we are in frequent contact. But there is one issue for me. I have young kids where she chose not to have children. It is relatively common for her to make comments to me about her preferences to spend time with people who do not have children. For example, she has excitedly told me more than once about meeting a new dink couple, dink equals double income, no kids. I had to look this up. And how great it will be for her and her significant other to be able to hang out with them. Another example, she is friends with

a couple that recently had a baby. She and her significant other had previously vacationed several times with this couple. When the couple suggested another trip, presumably with new baby in tow, she came back to me laughing about how they don't understand that she refuses to vacation with kids in attendance. Does having kids make people undesirable to a portion of the population? These are affluent people double income no kids she repeats so presumably whomever they are meeting up with could arrange a babysitter does she understand the people with kids can show up to a bar or restaurant without a kid in tow right are there no hotel arrangements that would minimize the interference a child could have on a vacation how triggered can i be i think part of what bothers me is that i wonder if she and i did live

closer would she not hang out with me so much because i have kids is it worth being triggered over a hypothetical Are there other people who choose not to develop a friendship with me once they learn I have kids? I do think that she has some underlying insecurities about choosing not to have children that drive these comments, but does she really need to throw them my way? For what it's worth, my local friends that I do spend time with are a mix of dink, double income with kids, single income with kids, and just plain old single with no kids. Thank you so much for your thoughts, a not always baby toting batch. Yeah, I could see why she's offended.

the friend seems a little bit, I think she's doing this because she knows that they don't have an opportunity to hang out. Otherwise, it would be like pretty offensive. Right. I think it's kind of a weird, like, thing to say anyway, but here's what I equate it to.

I think deciding to not have kids is a societally unpopular decision. It's not as popular as having kids, right? Kind of like, and I've seen this sometimes, it's like if someone chooses to be sober. Yes. It's a little bit going against the grain of whatever else is doing.

And sometimes I think people, especially like when they're getting used to being public with that decision, they need to almost villainize the other thing to make themselves feel better about the fact that they are doing something different because it's like, I'm sure there is random societal pressure or feeling like that's something that everyone's doing or feeling like. So you kind of almost like need to reinforce that by like really exaggerating. this thing, you know, sometimes people are like talking about how like, you tell your friends who drink that alcohol is terrible for you or, you know, you're kind of like going on and on about it. And it seems like offensive. But to me, both of these situations are just like the other

person trying to like reaffirm to themselves that they've made the right decision. Yes. I totally agree. I think the hard part is that her reaffirming her decision is sort of, you know, putting down the friends, putting down the other side's decision, which is like, I'm going to laugh at how ridiculous it would be for her to even think that I would entertain going on vacation with her with a baby. Like, you know, it's that to me I get feels like, okay, you're taking it a couple steps too far. Like, it's one thing if you, in your, there's a difference between in the privacy of your own home, you and your significant others saying, look, last time we did that, it wasn't fun. I'm not doing it again. I don't want to go on vacation with people with kids and then

making it into this big show to her friend of like how ridiculous it is that they would even think that we would go. Yeah. I think it speaks to a lack of like awareness of the situation and sensitivity to other people. But to me, it is so much, so clearly a mark of her own insecurity that she would, that she would do that to her friend. I think there's almost this sense of like, again, I think societally there's so much like pro having children and like that seems like the natural next step. But like she probably thinks she needs to argue for the like merits of a childless life. Right. More than like she needs to prove it to herself by proving it to you. Like your life isn't better than mine. Like, I wouldn't go on vacation with someone with kids. Like, that seems like that

sucks. Right. Totally. Had you ever heard of dink before? Oh, yeah. Oh, I've never heard of that. That's a thing. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's kind of the whole like, this is what we get. Yeah. Because we don't have kids. Like, we get this like extra bonus money thing, which, you know, I think I agree. She's trying to justify it. Look, I'm sure there are moments where it's great. And there are moments where maybe, you know, like we talked about on baby steps where it feels kind of like, you know, maybe I don't really belong in some way because I'm not part of this club. So this is her way of, you know, justifying the fact that sometimes she doesn't belong to kind of be like, well, maybe I'll be the excluder here. And I'm going to make you not feel like you can belong with me. I agree. I think

it's like rude. Yeah. I think it's rude and like kind of just not. It's also kind of like, And this, again, I think happens when you pick the thing that's not very popular. It's like because you don't want to be judged so much for picking the thing that's not popular, you then judge others. Right. Which doesn't really help your situation. Totally. Yeah.

So I could see why she's offended because, and I think what she touched on, it really doesn't matter because they live far apart and they're not planning on doing vacations or whatever it sounds like. It's the hypothetical of like, would she, not want to hang with me. It sounds like you guys are phone call friends right now. So it really doesn't affect you anyway. But it's the idea that like, would she be rejecting me?

She asked the question about like, do other people not want to be my friend because I have kids? I don't think so. Yeah, I would like get rid of that one. And I would say the next time she says something like that, you could say, you know, when you say that, it kind of makes me think like you wouldn't want to hang out with me. Right. If you were here.

Right. Is that the, is that the guy? You know, I have. It's not sure. Right. No. Right. You could say it in like a friendly kind of like almost funny way.

You're like, you know I have kids, right? Right. Right. Totally. I think she can call it out and just say it. They're truly best friends like she's saying. Like that's what I would say that like right away. I'd be like, um, hello.

Right. Yes. I completely agree. And I think it could open up a dialogue between them that maybe needs to be had, which is like, how would we hang out? Would you want to hang out? Do you want to meet my kid? Would you want to hang out with my kid? Would you prefer that we hang out alone, like, you know, and open up a dialogue about how they can actually spend time together with or without the kids? And look, I get it. I prefer to vacation without my kids too. Most people. Yeah, I think most people do,

actually. You know, no, sometimes it's really fun, but it's definitely not. It's definitely not relaxing. vacation without your kids. Right. And I can also, I can actually understand why a couple with no kids would not want to go away with a couple with kids. Yes. She doesn't have to laugh about it, but I do understand the preference like me. I don't really want to go away with my friends and their kids without kids myself.

Totally. Like that doesn't sound that appealing. 100%. So I get it. But the presentation is almost like arrogant or, you know, coming off in that way. So I get this. I agree you could talk to her about it and let her, you know, it might have been better at the first comment like you said to have just been like,

oh my gosh, you know I have kids, right? Like this is offensive. Right. And you could still do it. But I don't know. I give this, I don't know, like a four, five. I'd give it a three or four. I don't think it's, again, I just think because she's in like the societally accepted way of being.

You don't have that much sympathy for her. I'm just kind of like, no, I do have sympathy for her that her friend is being annoying. But like I don't think it should be a, I don't think she should take it personally. She's going to have plenty of people to hang out with that have kids. It's like someone who's vegan, who's constantly talking to you about how bad, like meat is. It's like, yeah, life is a little harder for them because they can't eat like very delicious foods. Right. So they need to like they need this to like in order to maintain this lifestyle.

They need to say that you were like murdering animals, which like fine, you are. But like I'm saying there is a sense of I don't think it's about if someone was saying that to me. I wouldn't think it was about me. I would be saying like yeah, they are doing this lifestyle. Yes. They need to validate it for themselves. And so fine.

Yes. I agree. I would look at it like that. This is what makes her feel better about. being in the minority in terms of her family structure and, you know, just give it to her and move on if you don't want to address it. Agreed. Yeah.

We'll give it a 3.5. Yeah, I would agree with that. You want to read the last one? Sure. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi got a quick, triggered situation to share and would love to know your thoughts. I'm currently 14 weeks pregnant with my first baby. I've gone through the process of telling close friends and family and feel ready to start

sharing the news more publicly. I'm a middle school teacher, and a few days ago, I shared the news with my students. They were all so cute and excited, and it was an all-around good experience. A lot of the kids went home and told their parents, so the next day I got a lot of really sweet emails from families who are excited for me. But one of them really rubbed me the wrong way. One parent sent me an email saying, congratulations. When I saw you last week at school, I thought to myself, she looks pregnant. And I was right. I'm still not really showing at all, and this parent hardly knows me. Am I being overly sensitive because of pregnancy hormones, or is this a low-key, rude thing

to say to someone? I'm just barely now starting to have my jeans feel a little bit tight, and now I'm triple self-conscious about my size because of that one comment. Is pregnancy glow even a real thing, trying to be as generous as I can and assume best intent, but I honestly don't think I look any different at this point. So the comment fully triggered me. Anyway, keep up the amazing work. Your podcast keeps me sane even when I'm feeling myself fully spiral out.

Sincerely, barely bumping batch. This is funny. I always think it's weird when people say stuff like that. I thought you were pregnant. It's like, just don't sit. Just like don't say that. Yeah. It's very dangerous comment to make.

Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. It's not never, I mean, risk reward. Right? It never is like, you know, the benefit of that. What that you knew? I was at a wedding with some friends and one of my friends is pregnant and then like, I guess someone's husband said to her like, let me guess how many, how far along you are.

I was like, please do not guess. Like, I don't think that that is like, that's not playing this game. Right. I don't think that's going to be like fun for anyone. Right. There's no right way to answer to that. Totally agree. I mean, look, to make, first of all, a couple of things.

you are supposed to get bigger when you're pregnant. So like even if it was that you said your genes are starting to fill a little tight, and this was last week, maybe someone who's super perceptive is looking and sees that, and they commented on it, and that's okay, because that's what's supposed to happen, and you are okay. And your body is supposed to grow and change. Also, there's other changes besides just growing around your waist, which is funny because John, when I think I was pregnant with Brooks and we went to the beach, I think, and John, our brother was

there and said some made some comment about how he like knew I was pregnant or thought I was pregnant. And I really think it's because my boobs were like enormous too. Because sometimes that's like the first thing that happens is like your boobs get really big. So that may have been what somebody noticed. If they, they're obviously a parent, they have kids, they know how the body changes. It could have been pregnancy glow. It could have been the size of your chest. It could have been the size of your belly, which is okay. Like, I think that's the other part of this too. It's like, I want to urge her not to feel so offended. You're only getting bigger. It's not going to get any better than this. No, but that's natural and that's beautiful and that's like what's supposed to happen.

So I think there's probably this thing where like you're getting used to your new body and then like you want to be able to feel like you've taken ownership of it before anyone else is yes, you know, giving you their commentary about it. Totally. So I totally agree. I wouldn't comment on anyone's body at all. But I don't think it was malicious, certainly, because she wouldn't have put it in an email just to hurt your feelings. No, definitely not. I think if anything, it was just. You know, who knows what it could have been. It could have been a variety of things. But even if it was, like you have a little belly, like that's what happens. And I think this mom or whoever wrote this email is probably like, oh, yay, like you're growing a baby, which is the point. It's supposed to happen. But I get it.

It is hard to get used to a changing body, especially. I think your point is a good one. Like you want to kind of own it yourself first and then like reveal it to the world. Right. Like I want to think I have a cute baby. bump before everyone else is like saying that for me or something. Totally. Yeah.

And I think it's hard to kind of that early period where it's not like a really a baby bump. It just looks kind of like, like you're a little chubby down there. Then it turns into like a cute baby bump. So this is a harder part, I think, for a lot of women where they're not like so obviously like big round baby bump. And it just kind of, they're just starting to realize, okay, this is going to start to grow. and I have to get comfortable with it. But that being said, I could see why she would find this triggering.

Right. What do you give it? I would give it a five. Yeah. I think. I think that's kind of like a, I would probably read into that. Yeah. Yeah.

Commenting on anyone's body, I think it's just not, it serves no purpose, no beneficial purpose. It was just this person to like reaffirm that they were right. It's like, just do that to yourself. Totally. Tell your husband that. Yes. I knew, yes, tell your husband, oh my gosh, I knew she was pregnant. You don't have to put that in an email that was like an impulse message.

Yeah, I agree. I think it was probably impulsive she didn't think it through. But that's it. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morelas Picoe, and Rebecca Sousel McHaw. Editing by Missileo Perez.

Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646-363-62. Batchez.