Oversharing - How to Reconcile Childhood Issues With Your Parents In Adulthood

Episode Date: July 4, 2023

On this Fourth Of July holiday, Jordana and Dr. Naomi start with a chat about how holidays help us reflect on our career choices. Plus, Naomi joined a gym and shares the valuable lessons she learned about the nature of jealousy. Then a listener calls in with a voicemail about growing up without a close relationship to your father, and how we come to terms with this in adulthood. The Betchicist question comes from a listener whose mom started dating a younger man and is making her uncomfortable. Is it okay to ask your mom not to have her new guy sleep over even though you’re living in her house? The intentions for this week are all about fertility struggles and changing your mindset about the all-too-relatable “fertility window” stress. Finally, they score some Triggered submissions about a reclaimed gift, and a snide comment about someone’s religion. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordani Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. What's up? How was your weekend?

And happy July 4th because this air is on July 4th. So happy Independence Day. Yes. All right. Good day. Everyone's off. Chilling. Maybe you're listening to this at the beach or at the pool. That would be great. Relax. Take it all in. That's my goal. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's always, that's like the best thing about a random day off in the middle of the week is it kind of like keeps you mindful of your day off. It's not like you have like four of them. You just like have this one little pop in day off and hopefully helps you be more grateful for it. Agreed. I think it's easier to enjoy a random day off than like if you have like two weeks off by the end of it, you're like not as appreciative anymore. Totally. I remember, is it just a side note this experience. I did teach for America. I don't know if anyone out there is familiar with what that is. I remember. And the training process of it is really hard. It's like the middle of the summer. You just graduated college. A lot of people are hanging out doing whatever. And there's this intensive training that you have. have to do that's like all day, every day, and then you have to do like more work when you get back at the end of the day. And there was one day I remember where everyone like woke up and went out

to the buses. We were supposed to go off to our schools that day. And they were kind of like, surprise, you're off. And it was just the best feeling in the world because it was like unexpected. It was, I think they picked a day that was like in the middle of the week. And, And to this day, I feel like, just like everyone started screaming and like jumping up and down, but it was really just like a day off. It's kind of funny because in terms of like the day is off, I feel like the more you hate your job, the more like that would be like a miracle, right? And this sounds, I've heard a lot of people who went to teach for America that talk about

this training process and that it's like, it's also, I guess, compared to your peers who maybe you're like messing around for the summer because they just graduated college. Right. But I remember having a job. I had a brief job before, like, while Betches was trying to get off the ground and I hated it. And like, I feel like the difference between the weekdays and the weekends was so intense because I hated this job so much that I would be like dreading going to the job. And I do feel like it's almost like your reaction to a spontaneous day off tells you, we'll tell you how much you hate your job. That's true. When I look back on it, I kind of think I really. not happy with what I was doing every day. It was just really challenging. The kids were challenging. Discipline is not my forte. The kids were really unruly. And I was so happy not to have to deal with that for a day. So you're right. It probably was partially the surprise aspect, but partially just, you know, getting a break from something that I was really not into. Spoiler alert, I did not become a

teacher. So I wasn't that into it. But yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. So I, I, I guess, interesting way to evaluate your life. Totally. For sure. So as far as the weekend, I started going to, since the girls are off for the summer, we started going to the gym together, like the actual, you know, sometimes I would send them to like the kids club, but I was like, all right, let's try this. So we start going to.

Is it the first time you took them? So this weekend, we went both days, Saturday and Sunday. It was really fun. You know, we like stand next to each other on the treadmills or whatever. and they do, you know, they're kids. So they're like pumping it up to like incline 16 and like going like as fast as they can. And I'm just looking over like, wow, you guys are really killing it. And I'm just like, you know, my elevation two, three point seven, a nice brisk walk.

So, but the funny, the interesting thing was, I don't know how it is if you have a gym that you go to. But it's like the outfits, it's like a bit of a. fashion show at the gym. Like everyone's, you know, they'll be like, everyone's wearing makeup to the gym. And everyone's like, yeah, everyone's like kind of done up and wearing like the athletic shirt with the sports bra with the belly showing and the leggings. And, you know, so the girls are kind of noticing that there's like a look going on. Are you wearing the look? No way. I'm not wearing like a midriff, but I'm wearing, you know, like a like a exercise tank top and leggings. I'm not in a baggy t-shirt, but I'm not, you know, I'm not bearing all.

Okay. So they notice this. And then we go to go back the second day. And Maddie, who's like more into style and fashion and she's like noticing all this. So she comes down for day two with her little sports bra and like they called them these flutter shorts. I don't know. She's into these like flutter shorts. It's like almost like a bike shorts.

Like a skort kind of. sport. Okay. Oh, yeah. I remember when I was there, she was very, she was very into searching for a squirt. Couldn't find one. So she's wearing this, you know, like just to basically sports bronze shorts. And Lila's like not having it. She's like, I have a shirt that you can wear if you want to put on top of that. Like, I have the perfect shirt to go with that. Because she just like doesn't want her wearing that. And it was funny because, and I had a good moment with them because she went up, stairs and she was like, I'm jealous of you. And that's why I don't want you wearing that outfit. Okay. Yes. That's great. That's an amazing self-aware moment. I mean, we've talked about

this, right? Like saying, I'm jealous of you really just disarms the other person. Because if she couldn't say and identify that emotion, she might just be like being kind of bitchied or her sister. Exactly. Then that might just cause like more tension. Yes. For her to say, I don't like that shirt. or, you know, you look stupid or, you know, just kind of being mean or... Right. And did Maddie then have sympathy for her? Was she like... Totally.

Totally. Although, so what happened was, you know, she's nine. So I wasn't thrilled with the idea of her really wearing a sports bra and shorts to the gym anyway. Not because you were jealous of her. Not because of different reasons. Exactly. So eventually, I... you know, because I could tell she was like feeling herself.

So I gave it to her when we were like in the house for a little while and I saw her like, you know, bopping around and feeling all cute. And then I said, you know, before we go in, why don't you just, you know, grab a tank top, put a tank top over, still look super cute, whatever. So she like kind of storms in the house and comes out with her, you know, tank top and she's all cranky. And she was like, you know, just because, you know, Lila said, Lila, Lila pestered you long enough that you gave in. And now, now I have to wear this tank top.

And, you know, we ended up having a conversation in the car about feelings of jealousy and that I'd rather you just say that you're jealous. Like I said to her, I'm proud of you for just saying that instead of, you know, beating around it. And Maddie understood where she was coming from. And she kind of got over it. And I said, I'm not making you wear the tank top because Lila annoyed me. I'm making you wear the tank top because.

you know, you're nine and you don't need to be showing your belly at the gym. You know, there's no need for it. If you're on a, you're on a disgusting machine that's been sweated on by somebody else and now your bare skin is going to be touching their disgusting sweat drops. That's not cool either. And I think that kind of convinced her out of her out of her midriff showing shirt. Well, I'm very interested to see the Maddie outfits as she becomes a teenager. Oh gosh, I'm not interested in seeing these outfits. But I think that jealousy is. thing is such an interesting thing. And so few people do that. I think so few people, you know, in any confrontation will admit to that. It just feels very, I guess it, it feels hard

to admit that you're insecure. I don't know why. And jealous and I guess jealousy is a form of insecurity. Yes. Right. Well, it's almost like the ultimate thing of like, I think you're better than me in this particular area, but I think you're better than me. And that's almost like, you and I lose and nobody wants that. But I do think it's almost like we talk about moments, right? So being jealous of someone, if you can admit that, even to a friend, if you could, like, let's say you're trying to have a baby. If you could admit to a friend, there are moments where I feel jealous of you. Yeah.

I'm just saying it's not that you always, 100% of the time when you're with them or the baby or you see pictures of them and the baby or whatever. that you feel jealous 100% of the time, there's fleeting moments where you feel jealous. And I think owning up to that can really deepen your relationship with somebody and make it feel so much more real. And I think that happened with Lila and Maddie. Like Maddie wasn't mad at her. She kind of was like, okay, I get it. I'm jealous of you sometimes, too, about certain things. And so I understand how that feels. Right. Yeah. I think it's such a powerful thing to say. And I've gotten more into say, I mean, I taught specifically about like the baby stuff. I feel like, and I have a lot of friends who have told me they're pregnant or they're having a baby.

And I like, I think to say that, because that's something people are usually kind of nervous to tell me. Right. They don't, they know I'm not like going to be the person who's like the most excited for them out of anyone that they know. Although like, and I say to them, it's like usually it's like when I hear that, my immediate gut reaction is I'm very jealous that lasts for anywhere from. five minutes to four hours. And then afterwards, I feel very happy for them. Like, I have it. It comes into my body.

It's not. I wish my immediate thought was happiness. It's not. It just isn't. At this point in my life, it's just not like immediate happiness. But I take it. I internalize it. I like feel it.

I feel sad. I feel bad for myself. I feel jealous of them. And then it comes through my body. And then that emotion is really usually replaced by a feeling of happiness for someone else. Totally. And that's the, I mean, you're doing great. That's all you can do is just kind of like allow the automatic emotion to kind of come through.

Give yourself tenderness, offer yourself love and compassion in that moment. And then it will pass through and you can come back. And maybe it'll come back, you know, a week later or three weeks later or at some other point. And then you just do the same thing again. So it's important to acknowledge that you're feeling that way. I was really happy that they did that because I said they're a year and a half apart. I'm like, you guys are going to feel jealous of each other a lot throughout your lives forever. And that's okay.

And not just each other, but other people. Yes, totally, totally. And as long as you can own it and accept it, acknowledge it, move on. I think sometimes when you say that you feel jealous, it can feel like you're taking away from that person's moment, which is maybe another reason people don't like to say it. Like, it kind of feels like, oh, I've made this about me. Yes. You know?

Yeah. Maybe you don't, the timing of expressing that you're jealous is important. I don't think you need to necessarily express that. Right. Immediately. And that exact moment. But yeah, you know, Maddie's like bopping around feeling herself like I could tell. And Lila feels herself kind of like raining on her parade a little bit.

And then, you know, found a moment to. share what she was really feeling because she was doing the thing at first where she was like, oh, do you want a tank top? Or I don't know if I like the way that looks. Or she was doing the thing where she was just kind of letting it seep out through her pores and then caught herself. So that's when you know you need to express it. Right. I don't think you necessarily need to express it unless you feel like it's, you're kind of projecting it onto other stuff that's going to create random arguments that, you know, like if someone's having a baby shower and you're like, oh, what a stupid date for a baby shower.

That place is so annoying. I hate that place or like whatever. It's like not about the place or the day. I agree. Or if someone tells you something that you're jealous of, you want to get engaged, your friend tells you there engaged. You could say all the right things.

You don't have to immediately. Right. But it's okay to feel that way. And then I think at a later point, again, not maybe like in the initial point, you can bring that up. Totally. I agree.

Timing is key. Exactly. And it's a delicate balance. I don't think it's like that easy about like when do I express my emotions that are about me about the thing that's going on with you. It's not like always super clear. But I think that like most people can feel out a situation. Yeah. And honestly, I don't know that you need to express it unless it's affecting the relationship and you're starting to kind of have negative feelings towards the person or you know, the relationship in general. Like we always say when you start to get irritated at like little things. that someone's doing. A lot of times it's not about those things that someone's doing. It's irritating you. It's about like maybe I'm jealous or maybe there's some bigger picture that does need to be addressed. So you can wait until it starts to fester. Wait until it just takes over your entire life and you can't think about anything else. Then you can say something. Let's get into our emails. There's definitely a lot going on today. Today we have a voicemail. If you want to leave us a voicemail, you can call 646-363-66-6-2-9-4 to leave us a voicemail.

And if you want to email us, you can email us at oversharing at fetches.com. Let's play the voicemail. I've been going through something that I'm trying to process and I feel like probably a lot of people have been through. But basically, my parents got divorced from the time I can remember. I think it was like pre-1. So I want to say, you know, sometime between when I was born and my first, first birthday is when my parents got divorced. So my whole life I've grown up with my parents

being divorced, and it's always kind of been my norm. My mom got remarried when I was like three. My dad got remarried when I was four. I have amazing step parents. They both have had children with their new spouses, and I have an amazing dad and stepmom and two brothers and a sister, and my mom and her husband have two kids. And I just have a little. And I just have a little bit. And I just have these great families. But recently I have really been grieving what I lost in all of that and how my dad wasn't the dad that I necessarily needed him to be because he wasn't part of my life day to days. And I have my stepdad, but it's always just been different.

And it's just interesting to me that I've grown up my whole life being okay with this. and now as a 34-year-old adult, I feel like I'm really grieving what I needed and deserved as a kid and having a dad and what I don't have today. So I just wanted to ask, you know, if there's any advice or anything you can share about just kind of grieving this when you've always had it in your life and kind of facing things as an adult that come up from your childhood. that unexpectedly are impacting you emotionally in ways you wouldn't expect. This is really interesting. I thank her for writing in because it's such a nuanced part of divorce that people don't really talk about, this idea of like, you still have your parent. They're still in your life.

But there is sort of a difference when you have a parent that's there day to day and a parent that's a visiting parent. It really does change the relationship, I think, a lot. And that is a piece of divorce that we don't often talk about. It's more about like the conflict or not having your parents together, but we don't talk so much about this. And it's funny because I've gone through something very similar to what she's going through. I don't know if you felt like this.

Well, I think your situation is a little bit different. than mine in that, you know, your parents were divorced. And I mean, and then you, you lived with my dad. So that was like the two of my parents being together. But I never had like really, I never saw our mom have more kids with someone else after me and saw her raise those kids with someone else. Right. How old were you when they got divorced?

I was like nine, but there were no kids that were not in. There were no additional kids after. Yeah, after my parents got divorced. So I never really saw, I think the hard part about this is sort of seeing other people's kids have the relationship that you want while living in your house. Right. And I guess I never fully witnessed that. But I know you have a much more, your experience was much more like this, this reader. Right.

And I think they're really, when you have that like apples to apples comparison of sort of. You know, for me, I have like, you know, my relationship that I have with my father. And then I see the relationship that he has with my half-sister that he lived and always lived in the house with and raised like a regular dad, like waking up and pouring cereal every morning, seven days a week, 365 days a year kind of thing. Right. There's a difference. And sometimes it still makes me sit.

you know, that there's just, it changes the dynamic. It changes the little details that somebody knows about your life or the intricacies of your relationship when it's kind of like a pop in, pop out relationship versus all day, every day kind of thing. So I can really feel this. And my dad also, like, didn't have any more kids after his divorce from our mom. So, you know, I've only seen the pop. I didn't see him raising some raising a different kid, but not me.

So I think that that makes a lot of sense for you too. But yeah, I'm sure that can be really difficult and getting to bring it back to our original discussion, bring up feelings of some jealousy. Totally. Yes. Just kind of like, you know, because I do think even, you know, when you look at other people, whether it's that person or even just anyone else who had a dad or, you know, a mom, guess it could go either way where they were in the house every single day. It just seems like sometimes

not always. I'm sure there's times when it feels exactly the same. But I think a lot of times people like this listener and myself feel like there's a certain disconnect that arises. And when you see that, it feels like, you know, I think what she's feeling is like she got shafted out of having that the closeness. Like I even see the way that Jeff is with my kids. And obviously, it's, you know, I love that because it's my kids and they get to have their dad every day, but it's different than the relationship I have with my dad, who I wasn't day to day in the house with. So I could see, and I could see how what she's saying is like, you grow up and it's just the norm and you don't really like feel bad for yourself because it just is what it is,

you know, almost like if you never saw, you know, the color pink, you wouldn't be like longing for the color pink because you just never even knew it was a thing. Yeah. And so for her, I wonder what there must be something that's happening now. Maybe it's like her siblings are getting married or they're doing life, you know, some kind of life changes that she's looking at or comparing the way that it feels for her. There must be something, I think, that's spurring this. Or maybe she's a therapy.

Yeah. Yep. It's another time that comes out. Totally. A realization of like, I just kind of accepted this, but I never really, which is great. She didn't have like a pity party her whole life about it. It sounds like she just moved right along, but there are ramifications to it that, you know, probably sounds like as some kind of a lack of closeness or connection or something that she would

like with her dad. So what I can recommend is I think it might be really great to talk to him about it. And maybe their connection isn't going to be exactly the same because, you know, it's been 33 years of not living in the house together full time. time. But I think that having this conversation and letting him know how much she values their relationship and how, you know, that she does feel sad about the difference between his connection with his other kids and his connection with her, if that's what it really is about or whatever it is. I think that that can be an opening to helping fill some of that gap that

that she's feeling there by creating like an intimacy in talking about this. I think that's a great idea and just also to make it a little bit more relatable. I think even though I didn't have this exact problem, you know, with my dad, I've had other things that as I've gotten older, I've sort of realized to become a little bit more resentful of that as a kid you don't really think about or care about. But then, you know, with the eyes of an adult, you look back and you're like, well, that seems like that was done kind of weirdly. Like, or I got shafted. I think recently I remember my dad had an issue when I was like staying at his I was like helping him he had like a hip replacement and I was at his apartment and um I was like sleeping on the couch and somehow in that when I and I was like the apartment

is so small and like kind of it was kind of dusty and got and cleaned around like the furniture was kind of old and somehow I in I kept waking up in the middle of the night and I kept getting angrier and angrier upon this realization because he's lived in this apartment for like 25 years and I And then like, why doesn't this man have a two-bedroom apartment? He has five daughters. Right. Why does he have one? And for some reason that never occurred to me as a kid, or I think he like maybe

mentioned it as a kid, maybe because we didn't really like to go with him. But I'm kind of like, we didn't really like to go with him because we didn't have our own space. Right. So, but as kids, you're not really like thinking it through in that way. And I just started. And it's funny also, I guess because I couldn't sleep, I was getting angry at him and more resentful at him as like the night went on. And then had that morning go.

I was like, I'm never going back here. No, but you think, and then it made me like think about my whole childhood. And I had my own chaotic relationship with my mother. And I'm like, oh, it would have been really nice to have somewhere to go where I had my own room or my own space. And that was never, I guess as a kid, I wasn't going to ask for that because I didn't realize that I even needed that. Yes. But it just kind of goes to show, I guess. You can, things come to you later.

Like, I didn't think about that. at all when I was growing up. I wasn't like wishing that at all. Or like, because you don't know what you need when you're a kid. Yes. It's so, it is so interesting when you live in this bubble of your like childhood home or your childhood home arrangement, whatever that is. And then you get, you grow up and whether it's when you start dating someone seriously, you start spending time with their family, or you go to friends or you just kind of see what else is out there. And you're like, Oh my God. Like my parents are fucking nuts. Right. You can see it normally. I didn't know. I was in this like bubble. I didn't even realize this, you know, until you get out and you see like how like certain choices that they make and you're like this is crazy. How did how did I not even know that this wasn't normal? Why wasn't this more upsetting to me earlier? I guess. And because I guess when things are the status quo and you're a kid, you don't see the world. You don't see what's out there. You just assume that everything that happens is something that. that happened. I think you assume, and this is probably what you unpack in therapy all the time,

you assume that your experience is sort of the experience of everyone else. And so the way you think about things is just like the correct way because that's the only thing you know. Right. But I think talking about it is a great thing to do. I haven't talked about it with my dad. I guess maybe there's part of me that feels like I don't want to make him feel bad for something that's like over that he can't change that you can't like what's the point? You don't have to go out and get. a two-bedroom apartment now. At this point, I don't really think that, I think that ship has sailed. Right.

So it kind of feels like, oh, I'm just going to like, and my dad's like a nice person. I don't think he, I think he would have wanted me to have an optimal child experience. And also like he didn't have a ton of money when we were growing up. So I do kind of feel like, is it worth it to make him feel bad about something? Or even with you and your dad, it's like, is it worth it to make that person feel bad over something that's in the past that they can't change? like what would be the point? Maybe for you it's more about fostering the relationship now. Right.

In my mind, I'm like, well, I don't really know how this is going to bring us closer by him saying, oh, maybe I should have gotten a two bedroom. Like, it's over. Yeah. Well, you also have to know your audience, you know, like some people are really appreciative of that type of like open, like vulnerable communication. And some people might just get offended and, you know, angry. or feel, you know, guilty or be kind of swallowed up by guilt.

So I think in that case, it probably might not be the best thing to do. But I do think it can, if you say it in the right way, especially if you say it in a way that's like more leaning towards repairing in the future, but maybe that's not what you want. I mean, we're not going to get into a therapy session right now, but I'm thinking, you know, like if you were to lean into that a little bit more and say like, yeah, I would have like to be able to like have a safe haven with you. I would have like to be able to and I don't know that it's just about the space. I'm sure the space was part of it, but it would have been nice to be able to have you as like a safe and stable space to land. And I didn't really feel that, but I'd love to

feel that going forward. But maybe I don't know. You don't want to open that can of worms to kind of be like, that's a nice way to put it. Maybe I do want to do that. Yeah. You know, if that's something you want, I think what happens for a lot of people, and this is something that I've felt, I didn't realize we're going to get so deep today in terms of like our own stuff. But I have felt sort of like sometimes you put a relationship in a box, you know, like this, even like me with your dad, it's like in a box. Like I love him. He's sweet. He's great. I feel very loved by him. But I'm sort of like, this. is the box where you are and I don't necessarily want to like now I have my life, my career, my kids, all these different relationships and friendships. And do I really want to lean in to

like opening that up and changing the whole thing up and creating a new dynamic? It's like nice and safe and comfy in that little box in the corner where it is. I know what it is and I don't necessarily need to start shaking that up because it's like working and it's stable. So sometimes there's just, even though you could have more of a closeness or you could have more connection with somebody in a different way, it feels just kind of like, probably like this listener, my relationship with my dad has been in this little area in this box, my relationship with my stepdad has been in this area in this box and they're both sitting there quietly and I don't feel the need to change it, but this little grief that's coming up,

these moments of grief make you kind of think, well, maybe I do want to open that box up and see if it needs to be changed or bigger or, you know, in a different place or whatever it is. But sometimes the emotional work that it takes to really kind of regain intimacy or open up these dialogues feels pretty daunting. So it might be easier to just say, okay, this is my relationship with this person. It's fine enough. We're not fighting. It's not an issue.

It's not a negative. So like I'm just going to leave it alone. Yeah. No, I think that, I mean, only. Only the listener can decide how far she's willing to go. Right. Or, you know, how important it is for her to resolve it. So I think that's probably on a case-by-case basis.

But that's good advice. Maybe I will, maybe I'll take it. Yeah, we'll see. Come to, you know, a place where you have, you know, you have to have some emotional reserves. Right. In order to really open up something that's like laying nice and quietly by itself and not really bothering you.

For this listener, it's coming up, and she's having these waves of grief. And she could just, like, do the thing that we talk about. Watch the waves of grief come and, like, pass over her and kind of allow herself with tenderness and care for herself when she's feeling these feelings and do that process by herself. Or maybe she does want to involve her parents in that process. I think either way could be healing. Right. Yeah.

I mean, good luck. Let us know. give us an update. Yeah, for sure. Great question. Let's move on to our betches cysts. We have a lot of family issues today. We're going to get right into it. Do you want to read it? Yeah, I'll read this one. All right. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. First off, I love this podcast and look forward every week to hearing your insights. Let me get into my dilemma slash trigger. About four years ago, my father passed away in an accident. It was sudden, unexpected, and a tough thing to go through as a family. Over the last two to three years, I moved back in with my mom in my hometown to be closer to family, as well as help my mom take care of the house.

It's been great, and I feel like it has helped both my mom and myself not to be alone. Fast forward to now. I'm moving out in three weeks to live in another city with my partner. However, in the last few months, my mom has started dating. At first, it was super hard and awkward to navigate, especially since I'm in the house. More recently, she's been dating someone more seriously. he's 17 years younger than her, which initially made me uncomfortable as he's closer to my age than hers. I met him with my sister for the first time two weeks ago. After everyone left to go home, my mom and her new

bow were cuddling on the couch. I've made it clear that I'm not at the point that I'm comfortable with him spending the night, cuddling with my mom while I was at the house as it makes me uncomfortable in my own space. I told her that in three weeks, I'm out of the house for good, and I would appreciate that she not have him over slash cuddling on the couch slash sleeping over. Yesterday, she asked me if it's okay that he spends the night right in front of him. I felt like I was put in a situation where I couldn't say no. I later confronted her about it and she was defensive at first before she apologized. Do I have a right to be triggered by this?

Am I being unreasonable and asking to have some space from their relationship? Thanks for your advice, uncomfortable betch. I thought this was a great ethical dilemma. Totally. I think a lot of people do go through this when they have lost a parent and their parents starts dating again. I've heard of, yeah,

I've heard of this just anecdotally for many people who just do not feel comfortable. And I think like sometimes it's about the amount of time and I think sometimes it's just about just the first time that they're doing that. Yeah, for sure. And I think for this mom, she probably knew that the daughter was moving out and was sort of like, okay, you're going, moving on with your life, with your partner. I'm going to be alone when you leave.

And I don't really, I want to set up my life to not be alone as well. So I get from the mom's perspective, her wanting to start dating, obviously. The idea that she can't wait three more weeks when she's waited, you know, however many years now seems a little. I don't know why she can't say, all right, just give it three weeks. My daughter's uncomfortable. Three more weeks and then we can do whatever we want. I see her side why, you know, the daughter doesn't, is uncomfy with it. Flip side, she's going to have to adjust to this eventually.

I guess that's sort of like the, I understand both sides of the thing where she's like, this is my house. And I do, I do feel like, and this, maybe you don't notice this unless you get it, I feel like a mom that is happy is a much better thing. Like would you rather her be like kind of just miserable and grieving this person for the rest of her life? Or do you want her to have like an independent happy life that is. I think you see that on the other side sometimes too where a parent is grieving and the other one becomes depressed and like very sad. And like it would be amazing for them to be able to move on and have a whole like.

Yes. Have a whole life outside of grieving this. person and it has been, what did she say, three or four years? Yeah, four years, I think, since he passed and then she's been living there, I think. Right. So I do think that might be an interesting angle for her to explore of like, even almost like selfishly, like she will have to spend less mental energy thinking about is her mom okay when she's found someone that is making her happy that she's having a good life with. It could de-burden her in that way. I know it's not an obvious way to think about it.

And maybe you want someone, you want to feel like the person really grieved the loss of your parent. Yes. That it meant something to them. And I understand that. Yes. And it's hard to have both, I guess. Yes. You make a great point on two levels.

One, I totally agree with you that I think the alternative could be the mother's like resisting her desire to move out with her boyfriend or her partner, whoever it is, because she's going to be alone and she's depressed and she's missing the dad. so she's kind of looking to the daughter to be a caretaker for her, which I know a lot of people that are in that position. And I agree with you. I think that position's worse where you now have to feel guilty because you want your own life. And this person just is, you know, throwing all of their energy into you, the child, as opposed

to another, you know, romantic partner that could bring them happiness. So I definitely agree that there are other ways that this could go that would be worse. that she might not be thinking about as an alternative to what she's experiencing. And the other pieces, again, like we talked about in the last email, having a conversation about it, like a real conversation, not about the symptom of I don't want you having a sleep over or will you or will you not agree not to do this until I'm gone, but more the deeper side of it. Like I want to make sure that you're still remembering dad.

I want to like have check-ins with you about how you're feeling about the like maybe she needs to hear the complicated emotions that she's having in regards to moving on with this new person that it's not just like okay you've forgotten about dad now you're moving on we're never going to talk about it again like I think it would be great if she could have a conversation with her mom where her mom is being honest about like yes I still think about your dad yes I still miss him yes I still feel sad, but this person gives me a break from those feelings or whatever it is that she's experiencing. So instead of focusing on like the actionable behaviors of like sleepovers, yes, snuggling, no, you know, whatever it is. Like I don't think that that's what it's about.

I think it's, you hit the nail in the head that it's more about like making sure that she hasn't forgotten her dad, that they can still kind of be a safe place for the other to land when they're feeling feelings of grief about that. loss. So I think this is a bigger conversation than just what are the rules around you dating? Because the three weeks, by the time we air this, the three weeks are probably going to be up. But it's not, I don't think that's the end of it. You know, agreed. I think that'll probably make her relationship a lot better with her mom just generally. I feel like you hear, sometimes when you hear about, you know, being estranged from the remaining parent, I think it's because these conversations haven't happened. and other little things did start to build up and resent.

I hear us a lot also sometimes there's like someone remarries and the other person, the deceased person's parents or the diseased person's family feels like upset about the other person moving on. I think in that, in those cases, this kind of conversation would also really help. Instead of just having people just feel their own resentments and make it about, like you said, make it about, I think it was disrespectful that you moved on so quickly. or I think it was, you know, you're not monitoring this person in that way. I think to have those more meaningful conversations would probably help a lot of families stay more intact after these kinds of situations.

Yes, yes. And it's similar to the jealousy conversation and the idea that if you don't talk about what you're really feeling, you end up like seeping out resentment that gets projected onto like little bitty behaviors that are not the issue. Right. You know, like the cuddling on the couch is not the issue. It's the whatever she's feeling about her dad or her dad being replaced or her mom, you know, finding happiness or, you know, whatever that is that it might not be an easy conversation and there might be tears and it might be hard and it might take several conversations

to really get there. But I get it. Having these big conversations are so easy to avoid. And that's why these things happen, you know, because it's just so easy not to talk about it. And to talk about, I didn't. like the fact that you did this behavior or I didn't like the fact that you, you know, did that thing or that annoyed me. So I don't envy you. This is not an easy situation for either one of you, but I would definitely lean in with whatever the deeper thing is. And I think, Jord, you hit the

nail on the head. It's probably like the idea of her father being replaced or her feeling like her mother's over it or doesn't care anymore or too happy. Right. Right. And maybe if the mother shared, yeah, like there's moments where I'm with him and I can forget everything and just like enjoy being touched again or enjoy having that connection again. And then there's moments where I lie by myself in my bed and I cry because I miss your dad. You know, that might, she doesn't probably see those pieces and maybe she's not doing that in front of the daughter because she doesn't want to make her feel bad. But, you know, I would just, I think this is a good opener for a larger conversation. Great. Good luck. Good luck. Let's do some intention.

I'm going to read the email and you can give this reader and myself some intentions because I have I can relate a lot to this email. All right. Go for it. Hi, ladies, love the podcast. One of my favorite podcasts to listen to each week. I have an intention that I would love help with setting. All my life I have wanted to be a mother. I have a great job, a great life, and an amazing husband. However, I feel like there is something missing in my life and I believe that it is creating a family with my husband.

Anyone who knows me knows I have always wanted to be a mother. Unfortunately, back in January, I experienced a miscarriage at 12 weeks. This was hard on me as I quickly began to visualize the future and felt a crazy new sense of purpose after hearing the baby's heartbeat. Since then, I've had hopes of becoming pregnant again. Though due to a medical thing, I have been told it may be a bit harder for me to conceive. Unfortunately, the desire to become a mom has overtaken a lot of my thoughts and floods my mind daily. Realistically, I believe that our family will grow and it's meant to and I know we will

have a beautiful family one day. However, it's so easy to become impatient during the process, especially as it is such an underspoken about an isolating process. Do you have an intention or advice on how I can stop myself from constantly stressing if I could possibly be pregnant from my fertile window until my next period each month? How do I stop the hopes from breaking my spirits each month when it doesn't happen. Thank you for all your great advice and insights, sincerely, future mama. Yeah. I mean, I'll let you kick this off in terms of validating her because I'm sure that like you said, you can kind of relate to this. Yeah. I mean, for like context, I feel this way all the time. I know anyone I know who's had any kind of

trouble conceiving has also felt this way where it feels like it's a world of dealing with a lot of unknowns and it feels very um sometimes it's about it has to happen now and sometimes it's about the fear that it won't happen so i think those are two separate things that go on in your mind that i don't know if they need to be dealt with the same or both and i mean i've talked about this before it can be easier to zoom out and try to look at the big picture when you're feeling that way and i know you'll probably have some intentions for getting to that place but when i try to zoom out and I think about my life as a whole. I'm kind of like, well, if it happens this month or in three months or in six months or even in two years, like what will be the difference in my life

story? And if you really think about it, it's not that much. Sometimes that helps take the edge off. Sometimes it's like, I remember talking to my own therapist about this where the idea of two years, I think the first time they brought that up, I was like not willing to entertain that. It was like... Not an option. Right. It felt like not an option. It felt like that would be devastating or that would be so hard to possibly imagine.

But I mean, right now it's been a year for me of trying. And the longer it has become, the more I realize that it doesn't, you know, as long as I feel like I'm making some sort of progress, I'm still doing everything I can to work on it. Right. The actual date of it happening does feel less dire. and maybe that's because it's been longer and the longer you were doing it, the less long it seems to add more time to it. But I can totally relate.

I think it is very underspoken about. I think that because, especially because miscarriage and being pregnant and trying for family does feel like this wrapped in this very like secret thing, it feels like you're going through it alone when there are really so many people that go through it.

So many. And it's hard because you don't know that that many people. And you don't know, because people are hesitant to talk about it, You don't always know when other people are struggling about it. But most people that I've told when I felt like an intimacy with them, even if they already have kids, have shared some sort of obstacle in getting them. And it's weird because it's most people.

And as a 20-something before I was dealing with any of this, I would not have thought that at all. Yes. But it's the kind of thing many people go through. They don't really talk about it. And something my therapist had me do, if she doesn't have many friends who have gone through it, which I found to be helpful and very out of my comfort zone, was to like find people either through a friend of a friend or on social media or somewhere who have and have a phone call with them, ask about their experience.

Because I think the more people that you talk to, the more it normalizes the whole experience. And the more you get a sense of like this thing happens in so many different ways. Because sometimes when you when you look at things societally or when you look at things in the movies, it just looks like for most people it just happens normally or it just happens. You know, they want it and it happens and it's there. And I think that's sort of the picture that you've seen. And because the expectations are there, that's why it's almost that much more devastating.

Right. Totally. Well, I give you so much credit. And I don't know if I've said it to you on this show before, but the fact that you just talk about this freely, I think is so helpful to so many people because I'm sure that there are a ton of public figures or people that have a voice that are not sharing this. So that just, you know, embeds this the culture of secrecy around fertility and pregnancy

and all the things that everybody's, not everybody, but a lot of people experience. So totally. And especially because a lot of the time, I think you see these celebrities and they're only announcing their pregnancy announcements. And it's like Hillary Swank pregnant at 48 with twins or like Courtney Kardashian just announced, you know, her pregnancy at 44. and you're kind of like, oh, anyone who wants one, like, they like, they figure it out and like, why is it me, you know, not having, not being this age or not doing these things. And you don't,

most of the time, there's a lot behind those stories. Yes. That you haven't heard. Yes. So. And exactly what, what this listener is describing of that thing between like your fertile window when you try until the moment that you like check your, you know, wipe in the bathroom. and you see that your period is there, all of those women had that experience month after month, after month, after month, and aren't really talking about it. So I think she does a good job of saying,

like, it's these 14 days that are really stressful because there's this huge unknown that's going to be this huge life-changing thing if it's one way or the other. And you feel very caught in the stickiness of those thoughts where perhaps you feel like I'm having trouble kind of like enjoying my life. life because I'm stuck in these, you know, just like, when can I test and how many days has it

been and should I do a test now? But maybe it's too early and it'll be negative no matter what, but what if I try again tomorrow? And now you're just like laying away thinking about that. Yes, totally. And like, can I pee first thing in the morning? But what if I want to try at night? And it says, you know, whatever it is, like all the things that run through your head. So totally relatable. And I'm appreciative to you and I'm sure others are that you're, you know, how candid you are about this experience. And I don't know if that was a big choice on your part to kind of be like, you know what, how can I do this podcast and be genuine without talking about this? Or I don't know what brought you to that, but I'm appreciative that you got

to this place. And I think it really is helpful. Thank you. I mean, it just for me, I like remember Googling like celebrities with fertility issues. Right. Honestly, because I do think it like, it helps you, you feel better to just hear other people's stories. So. I would recommend that she also talk to people because that really does help more than you think. For sure. And including these intentions when you're getting those intrusive thoughts of sort of fixating on the timing. So as far as intentions, I took a course over the weekend or a portion. I started a course over the weekend that was talking about kind of reframing and it's all based in science and facts about,

like there's something in our brain called a default mode network, which is basically the program that's running in our brain all the time, which is not the kind of the, not the program that's running when you're meditating or you're focused on a task. So that's more what's using like kind of your frontal loaves and the focus center of your brain where you're working on a project or you're meditating or you're calculating numbers or you're doing something that requires focused attention, that's not our default network. Our default network is basically the way that they were describing it in this course

that I was taking was your imagination. So where we are the rest of the time, once we're done focusing on a task that we need to get done, our brain goes into wandering mode, imagination mode. And when that default mode is left unchecked, what we're imagining causes anxiety. So what it really is, our default mode a lot of times isn't imagination, quote unquote, it's anxiety. But it really is your brain just wandering to, well, what if this? The same way you could think, what if I take this blog that I've created and turn it into like a, a media, you know, company and what if? So the what if could be a really great productive thing or the what if could make you extremely anxious. But it's all just like your imagination that is,

you know, kind of creating this space that sometimes can be uncomfortable. So what I liked is the idea of instead of labeling it like anxiety, you're kind of saying like, I'm, my imagination is running away with me. Right. You know, like, it's my imagination. So that feels more like, this isn't a real thing. This is like I can imagine an elephant dancing and a polka dot tutu. And that's like my imagination.

Just like your imagination probably goes to the place of like, I'll never get to be a mother. Or like, I'll never be able to have the family that I see my friends having. Like, that's your imagination taking you to a place just like you can imagine. you know, painting a picture of a solar system and a different galaxy or whatever. Something that's like, it's just using your imagination because it's not, you know, anything that's based in any fact in this moment. So I really like the idea of seeing this anxiety as like your imagination.

And so one of the intentions that I wrote for her, because there is benefit, obviously, I always talk about practicing using that other part of your brain that's not your default mode network. That's not your mind wandering brain. That's what you practice when you practice mindful intention. So I think practicing that is going to be helpful. And it doesn't have to be, I'm sitting in a meditation room with my eyes closed for 20 minutes. It could be what I'm going to try to get her to do is just be conscious of her imagination taking over and not even like necessarily try to stop it because sometimes that can feel like resistance and that can feel like worse is just watch it as if you're watching yourself imagine shapes of animals and clouds.

Like watch it almost like with a curiosity of like, okay, here it comes. My imagination is taking over. I'm not going to like try to pull it to a screaming halt. I'm just going to watch this. and after I notice myself watching it, I'm just going to come back for 60 seconds to like a consciousness of my breath and a consciousness of what's happening in this moment, which is my imagination taking over. Just 60 seconds of that. Okay. I think can change that experience.

So the intention to kind of boil it down is I will practice focus, which is practicing mindfulness. And that's just to help her. strengthen that part of her brain that's able to have directed focus. So I will practice focus and harness my imagination. Which is like kind of watching it, but without feeling like it's going to take on a life of its own. Like you can kind of watch it and maybe you direct it to where you want it to go.

Maybe you direct it to a place that's like imagining the family that you eventually are going to have, what we call it visualization. Like I'm going to visualize the family that I'm going to have eventually. Or I'm going to visualize a vacation that I'm going to take. Or I'm going to visualize like kind of choosing where your imagination goes instead of, we're just redirecting your imagination instead of just, you know, first watch it, non-judgmentally.

Oh, look, there it goes. It's going to that place again. I know that place. We've been there before. I'm not going to like get worked up about it because it's just my imagination. Right. taking over. And you know what would be more fun to imagine me and my baby sitting outside on the rocking chair. That would be more fun to imagine than like dying alone with no children or whatever the,

you know, other places that your mind goes. And they're both imaginary right now. So true. Yeah. Why not imagine the one that makes you feel better? Have more fun. Yes. So I will practice focus and harness my imagination is one that I wrote down. And the other one is like what I always kind of talk about, which is just watching your mind going there in those 14 days, your mind's going to go there. Just watch it. Don't allow yourself to get pulled in. This is the difference of like consciousness. And we haven't talked too much about consciousness. But consciousness is like the key to I think most feelings of well-being is like creating intentional consciousness. So when you're just conscious of what your mind is doing, it allows you the piece that comes from like a separateness of like,

oh, there goes my imagination again. Agreed. And especially when you say it like that, like when you separate it from who you are. Because sometimes like you said, we've talked about this a lot where it's like your thoughts, sometimes you think your thoughts are indicative of who you are and what and your whole personality. But if you can separate your thoughts from who you are. Like, just because you have this thought in this one moment doesn't mean that's who you are. Doesn't mean you have to keep having that thought. Yes. And if you can watch it like something separate, it allows you to say, this isn't me. This is just a passing wave that's coming through and it's going to leave. And then I can choose if I want to let it back in or when it comes back in, if it does, like you said, I automatically feel that feeling of jealousy or

whatever. Like it's automatic. That you can't control. But the next wave, that comes, you can kind of like, I'm just going to watch it. I'm not going to beat myself up about it. Oh my God, here I go again. I'm never going to be able to be happy. I'm always going to be feeling this for the 14 days of my cycle for the rest of my life until, no, no, no, no. Just watch it.

Don't wrap yourself up in it. It's just a passing imaginary thought like any other imaginary thought that comes through your mind. So I wrote, I will watch my mind being drawn in by my imagination, breathe, and relax into the passing moment. And the stop and the breathe is the important piece. And that's where the intention can be for her. When she's feeling this way,

don't just kind of let it take over like a runaway train. Stop, breathe. You're not trying to make it go away, really. You're not even trying to make it go away. You're just observing it from a little bit of a distance. And I think that will help it pass through sooner. It's not going to make it stop. So it's probably not going to just,

ever totally stop. Right. But the resistance against it. Yes. The resistance makes it last longer because then you get into a whole rabbit hole of like, oh, well, what if I never get it? And then I'm going to think about adoption and like what agency might I use. And this is all, I mean, you could go down that rabbit hole.

But probably better ways that you could spend your time right now. Like we talked about last time, write down what you can control, do it. And if it's not on your list, and you don't think it needs to go on your list, then like it's imaginary. And you might as well be thinking about a dancing koala bear. Right. For as helpful as it will be.

Right. It's not going to be helpful. It feels like you're helping yourself, but you're not. You're not. And if it is helpful, put it on your to-do list and do it. Right. Okay. I like that.

Yeah. Good luck. It's tough time, but I think most people come out on the other side. All right. Let's play some triggered. All right. Do you want to read our first triggered where we rate your triggers as to how upset we think you can be?

All right. Let's start judging some people. Hi, Dr. Dan and Dr. Naomi. First, I absolutely love the pod and you too. Thanks. And I'm so grateful for all you two have done for the oversharing community. About a year ago, my mom spontaneously purchased herself a vintage designer purse. Upon seeing the purse, I totally fell in love and expressed how much I would love to have a

similar to it. My mom, who proclaims gift giving as her love language, was very generous and decided to give me the purse as a gift. She even said, quote, I wasn't totally sure about the purchase, so it makes me so happy that you love it so much. The purse quickly became one of my favorites and I carried it almost every day. Fast forward to now when I recently was out of town, she rediscovered the purse in my closet and decided to reclaim it for herself. She has sent selfies carrying it and sent cryptic texts like, you may need to find another purse. I really like this. And overall has been parading it around without any comments about eventually returning it. Besides the fact that taking clothes slash accessories without permission is a pet peeve of

mine, the whole situation has made me feel so badly and even anxious. Should I anticipate that any future gifts could be taken back at any time? Can I trust her future generosity? Why would she take something she know means so much to me? My mom and I have always had a complicated relationship, So it's highly likely that this is more than just a purse. I'd be happy to lend it to her if she asked, but I can't help but be triggered. How triggered should I be? Sincerely, finders are keeping. Losers are weeping.

Okay. This is funny. I think it seems like she and her mom have a like non-boundary relationship. It's kind of what this was screaming at me. Like there's not firm boundaries and things get a little messy. Mm-hmm. I wish you said. more about what the complications are because then we could figure out like how the purse,

what, you know, the symbolism of the purse in this relationship. But I think you're onto something in terms of like her just going into her closet and literally taking something out and leaving with it without asking. Seems like a boundary cross. I think this is worth a conversation about like when you give a gift, what does that mean? Yeah, for sure. And again, even this gift was sort of like weirdly boundary because it was her purse and then she just said she liked it and she's like well you take it but it's and this happens so much with family

where it's like you had a roommate in college and they went into your closet and took your purse you'd be like calling the police like family kind of just feels like everything and I mean I grew up with five sisters so I remember just you know you weren't sure if your clothes were your clothes

or where they were like community clothes because everyone felt very entitled to each other's stuff and family, I just feel like it's so much different in creating boundaries than with anyone else. Right. This would never happen, even with like a close friend. This would never happen. Never.

But I think there was probably, I wonder if it was sort of like, oh, you like this purse here, take it versus like I'm putting it in a box and I'm presenting it to you as a gift. It's a little bit different. I think if I'm playing devil's advocate than like, oh, you like the shirt. it here, take it. It's different than like maybe if like for example, you were here a few weeks ago, you left a shirt, right? I found the shirt and I was going to wear it. Right. So you said in the text message, you can borrow it. And just now even you said you can wear it. Right. You didn't say take it or you can have it or it's yours or anything like that. So I think there's the verbiage.

is very subtle. Do you want the shirt? I mean, am I really going to give it back? I don't know. Probably not. Have you been wearing it? I wore it a couple times, yeah. Okay.

It's a nice, it's a comfortable, it's a comfortable, casual. And it's basic. If it was like a, you know, expensive winter coat, I think it would be the type of thing where I'd be like, all right, I should probably return this. But it's a T-shirt. So it's kind of like, all right,

when this was an expensive, like, like an expensive purchase. So I do think there might have been some lines being crossed in the like, oh, I'm so glad you love it here. Take it. Take it and give it back later or take it and have it forever. If it was presented in a box on a birthday, I think that's like a take it and it's yours forever. So I do think there might have been some like nuanced communication around the purse that created some confusion. And it seems petty to go back and kind of say like you gave this to me and then you took it or even to just approach her and I wonder what the communication issue is there. Maybe they're afraid that any kind of conflict is going to turn into an argument.

I don't know exactly what it is, but for her to say, you gave me that purse. I really like it and I'd like to continue to wear it. Can I have it back and see what she says? That seems easy enough. Right. And then the next time she gives you a gift in that manner, which again, I think is not uncommon in for family members. You could say, before you do it, listen, I know last time with the purse you seem like you wanted,

is this like actually mine? Are you trying to suggest we share it? Like I'd like to create like, I'd like to manage my own expectations as to the boundaries around this purse. Right. And I think this might be, look,

like she said, there's more complicated stuff going on with her relationship with her mother. But I think maybe this is a sign that with someone who has perhaps, your hypothesis is that there's blurred boundaries. So with someone, if that is the case and there are blurred boundaries, sometimes you have to have what feels like these very business-like contractual conversations

around certain things. You know, like even with the purse, like you said, to just really, if there's something else in the future, to say, I just want to be clear. Is this mine now? And I get to keep it until you ask for it back. Are we sharing it? Like, what is the arrangement? And that might help clarify boundaries.

And I know with some people, you have to set different boundaries, like, you know, whatever it might be. I'm coming over and I'm going to be leaving at 7.30 and that's my boundary or, you know, whatever your boundary is. Some relationships really need this type of communication on clear boundaries. So maybe this is just a wake up call between her and her mother that there needs to be clearer, more firm boundaries set when it comes to, I'm sure, more than just this person. And I think it's so nice when you can manage expectations because that really just makes, I think that to me that puts me at ease. I feel like boundaries are just managing the expectations. Like it would have been, it would have been still very nice if she was like, you can use this purse whenever you want, but it's mine. Right. And when I feel like wearing it, I'm going to ask you and then you're going to give it back.

Right. Yeah, which would have been fine. But it's all about like the, the expectations and like setting them firmly, which seems weird, especially. in family when you don't really do that that often, but I think it can help you if you're feeling anxiety around this kind of thing. And just for the record, you can keep the shirt. You can keep the top. It's yours now. So just to clarify, yes, it's now mine. It's now yours. If you would ever like it back in the future, you can just ask me for it and I will give it back. Okay. Sounds good. Hopefully it doesn't come to that. I have a few of them in different colors. They're great. All right. Yeah. Okay. Cute little basic. One last thing on this is I just want to say I could see the idea of her mother like maybe, I don't know if she was house sitting or whatever it was,

like going into her closet and looking through her things to like retrieve the purse back. So that kind of got that she like lived with her maybe. Oh, maybe. Yeah, perhaps. So yeah, I think again, a boundary in this way of like, yes, you can go through my closet and take things out. No, you can't. Like I think this is just great fuel. for some boundary conversations. Fun boundary settings. I'd give it a five. Yeah, I think I'd give it a five too

because it was presented as a gift. It sounds like it was, I'm trying to read back the verbage. She probably doesn't even know exactly how it was phrased, but it does sound, she decided to give me the purse as a gift. So I think the fact that it was presented as a gift and then taken back, I would agree.

I'd give it a purse. a five well sometimes people just want the like the feeling that they gave they did something nice for someone without actually suffering the consequences of that right where she's like oh you love it i like you're saying you love it so much it'll make me feel really good that i did something great for you by giving this to you and maybe she had some remorse and then that feeling wore off yeah it's funny i almost did that like i have these moments where like if someone really likes something that I have and I see that it's like making them happy. I'm like, oh my God, how amazing would it be if I just gave this person this thing? It would make them so happy. And sometimes I have to like,

pause and be like, I don't, I want this thing. Like, I don't really want to give it away. Like, I've had close calls with that. Like, I had the Dyson Air Wrap thing. Oh, yeah. So I got that for a gift for something. Jeff bought it for me. And one of the sisters was over there. And, the house and I hadn't used it. Like I guess for whatever reason, I hadn't used it in like several months. And she was like loving it and it was amazing and she came out and like so excited. And there was like on the tip of my tongue to be like, you know what? I haven't used this thing in like a while.

Just take it. And I like had that the restraint because I didn't want to give it away. It's expensive. Yeah. And you might want to use it. Yeah. And I might want to use it. So I didn't.

But it was like I was very close to doing it. And then I was sort of like, oh, few. I like, no, we've all had that moment. I mean, it's like that woman who wrote in about letting the neighbor use her pool. Like she wanted to feel good about the fact that she let the neighbor use the pool, but she actually like didn't really want it. That wasn't a feeling that she wanted to have that often. Right.

Totally. So, yeah, I agree. I give it a five as well. All right. Let's do one more. Okay. Dear Dr. Naomi and Jordana, thank you for everything you do. I look forward to listening each week.

And it has truly helped me be more mindful of my relationship with friends and family and the way I react to. I love the podcast. Thank you. I have a triggered situation that this happened probably two years ago, but it's still been eating at me. So I figured I'd write in two years ago. Wow. For background, I grew up in a Catholic family. I'm still religious and I go to church, et cetera. I have a sister who is no longer religious. We occasionally have discussions relating to religion, but typically it doesn't get very deep when it comes to these conversations between us. I respect her decisions and the way she lives, but I often feel that she doesn't respect mine. The main triggered example was one time she and I were

discussing that I still attend church every week and practice Catholicism. Her response to this was, you just seemed too smart to be religious. What the fuck? There have been other small comments like this, but this is the one that triggered me the most. Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I'm unsure how religious each of you still are, but I know that your Jewish background is a big part of your identity. Would a comment like this bother you? How triggered should I be?

And how can I deal with comments like this in the future? Thanks a million. This betch is feeling cross. Pun intended. Yeah, that's a funny sign off. Yeah, I get this. I could see why she's triggered. I think that if she feels confident in her spirituality, religiousness,

whatever it is, then hopefully she can be less triggered by this comment. I do see why it's triggering because it feels kind of like something that's probably really, really important to her. She's going every single week and like dedicating herself to this thing that she, her sister feels like it's some kind of a, you know, that she's being duped or that you have to be stupid to believe in whatever it is that she's believing. I could see why that would be, why this comment would be triggering to her for sure. But I do. I mean, I think that when you are confident in your spirituality and whatever way that that, that you're expressing that, it almost feels, you know,

you could be less triggered by feeling like, okay, you just don't, you don't get it. You know, you You don't get what this brings, you know, what this brings into my life and, you know, peace or the faith or whatever it is that this is doing for you. You just don't get it. And that's okay that you don't get it. And kind of being able to move on. That being said, I definitely understand because there is this stigma around religion sometimes, like, oh, you're like buying into this like imaginary, you know.

Yeah. And she's implying that she's dumb, which is right. Mean comment. Right. I think. Yeah. Like how, you know, only dumb people are into this. So weird that you're into it.

Like, there's a, yeah. But I also think because her family is religious and because this sister left the religion. And this happens a lot. I see this sometimes people who are sober in the beginning of stages of them being sober. Or if you're religious and then you're not religious, there's needs to be certain things that you tell yourself in order to stick to changing your lifestyle. Right. And sometimes they can feel like an overcorrection. So maybe she was, she was raised in this Catholic religion and she wants to leave it.

and in order for her to like fully leave it and that's okay if she wants to leave it I think that's also a valid choice she needs to say being in this religion you know people are are dumb yeah whatever story she needs to tell herself I hear this from people who are sober alcohol is poison you're just literally poisoning yourself and that's a you know that's a feeling that they have that they need to tell themselves because this really was not working for them this life's when something they were formerly in was not working for them. So they need something really strong to feel about this in order to keep not doing it or to keep doing what they are doing. Yes. I love that. It's very true. You hit the nail on the head, I think, for a lot of this. It's sort of like,

in order for her to leave, she has to feel like this is so stupid. Like, how could this is like ridiculous? So I have to get out of this. Like if you're an alcoholic and you're like, yeah, drinking sometimes is okay. Like you're probably not going to stop drinking. Yeah. Right. And she's probably having to, in some ways, like the sister, abandon a lot of the culture around, because religion is religion, right? And there's like a spiritual component to it and a faith component to it and all of that. But there's a lot of like a cultural component to religion too that sometimes when you give that up, you feel like you have to give up that cultural component to, which is a big sacrifice in order to leave. So I think you're right. She probably is having to go. extreme on the other side to justify that she's going to draw this hard line and not be religious anymore. So yeah, I would look at it. I think it's a great way to look at it to make you feel less offended by this comment that it's almost like her reaction to this is based on her having to kind of justify choosing something different. It would be great if she could take a little bit

more of a middle of the road approach, like whatever works for you. If this brings you peace, if this makes you happy. And, you know, just personally, like, I'm not, I, I wouldn't consider myself a religious person, but I do think that along the lines of everything that we talk about, kind of like having faith in something, whether it's God or Jesus or the universe or something, having some kind of faith that, like, you are not in control, which is just facts, like, we're not really in control, having faith that there's like forces in effect that like you do not have control over can bring people a lot of peace if you can like accept that in some rights.

So no, I'm not religious. And like I don't think that there's any one religion that I feel like is like I'm going to follow it to the T. But I do think there is a lot of power in doing something religiously. that trains your brain to think in a way that's more in touch with reality, which is, it's all unknown. There's a lot of unknowns. We don't know, we don't really have control over this life, and we have to just kind of

accept that. And whether you can find that acceptance in saying, like, it's in Jesus or it's in God, or it's in Allah, or it's in whatever, or it's just, you know, in the universe spinning and us flying through the universe at thousands of miles. I don't even know very, very fast on a tiny little planet that's like a spit in the bucket. That's what I think about when I think we have no control and I just have to like have faith, right? Yeah. So I think there's a lot of power in that.

Stand your ground and I would see this as like a her issue. I think you hit the nail on the head. This is the sister kind of having to reject the religion in order to have some distance from it. Right. And I think the longer that maybe she's away from the religion, her the more confident in her own self and her non-religiousness she gets, the less she'll feel like she needs to put down people who are in it because that won't, she'll feel comfortable enough in whatever state she's in that she doesn't have to do that. But I would give this like a six or seven because I think that it is insulting. Yeah. I definitely would give it. I would give it a six.

She's basically calling her stupid and something that's obviously important enough to her that she's going every week is calling that like ridiculous and stupid. And I could see that. Right. Being offensive. So, well, we tackled a lot of issues today. Yeah, this was a good one. I really, I really enjoyed the depth of conversation that we had today. So this is a good one.

All right, but I think that's about our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Salis McHan. Editing by Missileo Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at Betches.com. or leave us a voicemail at 646363-662-94. Betches.