Oversharing - How To Respond When a Friend Violates Your Privacy

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Today on Oversharing, Dr. Naomi tells tales from the 5th grade field trip and Jordana preps for her first house guest. Our Overshare comes from a red-handed Betch caught trash-talking by her prying bestie. The Betchicist goes out to a listener wondering if her partner should have a say in her journey with medication. Dr. Naomi writes an intention to help fight the fear of failure. And we’re feeling triggered by oinking mothers-in-law and getting laid off via Zoom. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Duran-Irahani. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. So great to be back.

How was your weekend? Weekend was great. I came back from, I think I talked about it last year. I went on another overnight fifth grade field trip. Wow. So that was. Maybe next year you'll go with no fifth grader. That's the plan.

Just your thing. That would be actually really interesting. It was fun. I got my bottom bunk. Last year I got stuck on a top bunk with a bunch of spider webs. This time I elbowed all those. Not again. I elbowed all those bitches out of the way.

And I got to the front. It was like, you know, arriving at the house on the challenge first day. Or a housewives trip. So it was like a scramble. Yeah. I zoomed in there. I got my, no, I'm just kidding. Everyone was really cool.

It was really, it was nice. I didn't elbow anybody, but I did get my bottom bunk. Nice. I'm happy for you. Yeah, it was cool. It was fun. I got to see the little fifth grade. You know, it's funny because it brought me back to fifth grade.

That was like the age when there started to be like a couple, a couple. and who likes who. So it's just the start of that. For sure. I feel like that's kind of the first age where you get a little insecure. Yes. You know, it sort of like starts to creep up on you that other people might be like kind of

cooler than you. Well, it's funny because that's what I noticed is there was definitely like the kids that were involved in all, it's kind of sad actually, but there were the kids that were involved in all the boy girl stuff. And then there were the kids that were just like, this isn't even my thing.

I'm totally uninvolved in this. And the ones that are involved in the boy girl stuff are the quote unquote popular kids. And then there's like everybody else. So it was interesting to see that. And there's the kids who just like hear the gossip. Yes. But they're not involved. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Exactly. So everyone's kind of interested. But there are only a certain number of people that are actually involved. And I do think, unfortunately, that feedback that you get if a boy or a girl, is interested in you can, if left unchecked, can kind of become part of your identity. It's probably what you're talking about, like almost, am I attractive or not to the people

that I am looking to attract? And sometimes seeing that, that start, even in fifth grade, I mean, these kids are 10, 11, it becomes kind of part of your identity as who you are, which is, you know, unfortunate. And I wasn't in that. So I was just kind of like, all right, this isn't my thing until I was like probably 27th. And fifth grade. And then I was like, okay. You know, I had a memory of like camp, I think, like sleepaway camp when I was like going into fifth or sixth grade.

And I remember I like thought maybe I could be in this thing. And I like asked this boy out. And he was like, no. And then I just like, I think I like was like, okay, I'm out for like the rest of adolescence. Right. Right, same. I wrote a note to a boy in sixth or seventh grade that was like, you know, I like you. Do you like me? And he actually wrote me back. And I remember opening up the note. And I was like, oh, my God, like he wrote me back. And then I opened it. And it's like, sorry. I like someone else. Oh, at least he said sorry. Yeah, he was kind. He was kind about it wherever you are. But yeah. So then it does. Your loss.

It does kind of become part of your identity as like the same way, if you're. the fastest kid in the class or you're the good at art or you're smart or you get good grades or you sort of absorb this identity based on these tiny little momentary experiences, which is, you know, it's kind of unfortunate, but that's how our mind-body works, right? We take an experience, we internalize it and run with it. It's so funny that like until you were really saying that, I never really thought about that. And like those little early, like you said, either wins or like rejections can kind of give you this like longstanding either fear of going for it or I don't know, like you said like a pride

or something that you like kind of pride yourself on. Right. Yeah. And it's unfortunate that it's like at an early age you can pride yourself on something that's so dependent on other people like will a boy or a girl find me attractive. That's really what it's pretty much based on. You know, it's interesting to watch, but I'm kind of like watching a slow motion car crash

of all these little identities of all these children that are being either built up or broken down based on, you know, who likes it. It's character building, I think, to be rejected a little bit. Totally. Like, if you go through life and you're never rejected, I think that that actually doesn't really serve you in the long run. A hundred percent. I totally agree with that. So they'll all be okay.

It was cute to watch. And it's funny because Maddie already has like a type. I know. What's her type? She kind of likes blondes. Oh, yeah. I remember her showing me some crush from last year. Blonde, okay.

You know, they're cute. You know, it's funny because when I was joking with Jeff, because when mom first met Jeff, you know, we were in the car together and she leans in, she goes, I can see the appeal. So when I saw, when she pointed out her crush to me, I was kind of like, yeah, all right, he's a cutie. I got it. Right. Acceptable.

Give your stamp of approval. I mean, I didn't know, I didn't know anything about his personality, but I could see the appeal like he was a cutie. Right. That was all I knew. I mean, at that age, I guess it's like just about like the fun of being chosen. Yes. A little bit. 100%.

They're all on their way to writing into overshutty. sharing in another 15 years. Dear Dr. Naomi and Trinette, this boy. Yeah. Most of our listeners are not quite that young. I had a very relaxing weekend. I said no to a couple plans, which was nice. I was like, I don't want any plans.

And it feels weird to say no to plans when you don't have anything else going on. Totally. Well, good for you, though. I think that's sometimes really the best time to say no. Yeah, it felt good. And then I was kind of just prepping for your arrival in a couple weeks. because it's going to be the first time we're like really hosting. And I got into like a little, it's funny.

I got into like a little fight with Mike. It wasn't really a fight. It was just like a, well, he was like, did you tell her that we don't really have any furniture? I'm like, we have beds and we have a couch and we have a TV. Yes. He's like, well, did you tell her that like there's not like, you know, it's not like fully set up. I'm like, why do I need to tell her that? Like it's not going to affect anything.

She's still coming. Like, she's not going to be like, well, if you don't have a second couch, like I'm not coming. Right, right, right. So what do you think that is? He just wanted to make sure the expectations were low. Yeah, I think maybe he thinks that I, like, go into stuff and don't think it through. But I'm like, I have thought it through. We've got the beds.

We've got the TV. That's it. Ouch. It's going to be great. I mean, honestly, we are so low maintenance that it does not matter at all, except for Lila, who, like I said, needs an actual request. It doesn't need. She requests an actual bed. She will have her bed.

Yes. I'm so excited to have you guys. I'm a little nervous going into like our first. Oh, don't be nervous. I'm so excited. Honestly, I don't care. I would do whatever.

No, I know. You're like the perfect, you guys are like the perfect people to have. We'll be the first guinea pigs. Yeah. It's not like our brother John who would leave like a Yelp review. Yeah,

but I mean, it's cute that Mike wants things to be right. Well, his family, as I've stated before, as we get into the holidays, is much more of a thing. His family's very on top of like their hosting game. Oh my God.

We have the lowest expectations like I know. Toilip papers, you know, that's that would be great. That would be great. If it was on the roll, yeah. On the roll, that's like bonus points. I don't know. What is the, the Buckingham Palace? Guys, if you want to leave us a voicemail, you can call us at 64636336294.

Or if you have an email that you want to send in, you can email us at. at Oversharing at Betches.com. Also, if you haven't checked out baby steps, comes out every Friday. It's a limited series, so it's not like forever, but there's going to be a bunch and they're out every Friday pretty much until the end of the year. Okay. I'm going to read our first overshare. Hi, Trudana and Dr. Naomi, I'm so thankful for you guys in your podcast. Your voices and advice provide a huge comfort for me weekly. I'll just get right into it. My best friend slash roommate asked if I could send her some pictures, and I was preoccupied, so I just handed her my phone thinking nothing of it. When we got home, she was super pissed off, and turns out she had gone

through my text with my other friend where I was harshly venting about her because I was upset and didn't want to take my anger out on her. My roommate is pretty naive due to the fact that this is her first time moving out of her parents at the age of 29, avoided, insecure, and scared of confrontation. She made it clear right away what she saw, and she is now understandably very hurt. I feel violated that she went through my phone, but also stuck because I feel I have no right to feel that way because of what she saw. It's been about a week and she is not talking to me or letting me apologize, which makes for an awkward living situation. So here are my questions. How do I deal with my guilt for saying hurtful things I never expected her to ever see? How do I navigate the living situation

and communication about whether or not we need to break the lease? I pay two-thirds of the rent and live in an area I do not wish to live in because originally it was convenient for her and she can't afford to live on her own. I do not wish to continue this for someone who dislikes me at the moment, and I truly don't know if she will be able to get over this. Excited to hear you guys' perspective and thanks for all you do, sincerely red-handed betch. Yeah, this is like you always say, kind of this happens, right? Where this is a thing. And I feel bad for her because this is her best friend. You know, this isn't just like a roommate. So this is a tough spot. Yeah. I've seen the situation much, I mean, more maybe because of you up, unlike dating.

I saw a text that I didn't want to see about him speaking to another girl or something like that. But this also happens all the time with friends, I think, too, with someone, you know, you send a screenshot to the person you were. Right. Oops. Wrong text. Right. That's like the classic meme of like you send the screenshot to the person that you screenshot it.

So I think this can happen a lot. In this case, it's closer to, I think, what we see with dating a lot because someone's going through someone's phone. And I'm sure you see this a lot. with like couples or something. There's like that thing of like the person did something kind of sneaky and shady by looking at my phone, but now they've seen the thing and who's at fault here? Yes.

This is probably in some ways easier said than done. But I think when things like this happen, it can kind of be a blessing in disguise because it forces you to have the conversation that you probably never would have had that perhaps you need, sometimes you don't need to have it, but sometimes you do. and you're not going to have it until you're forced to have it, which is whatever she was venting about, I do think that she needs, you know, she needs to have that conversation where she's like, look, when you did this thing, this is how it made me feel and I was venting about it. I feel terrible. It was unkind the way I was saying it, but this is sort of what I was saying and

thinking and feeling. And she has to own that because she was saying and thinking and feeling those things, but it doesn't have to be either or. Like either I can apologize for what I said or I can be upset that you went through my phone. You can do both of those things. You can apologize for what you said and also address what you said, right? Because maybe it is something that the two of you need to address

whatever you were venting about. And then also say, but I don't know how you go from photos to text messages without actually like intentionally going through my messages, which is not cool. So I think you can do all of it. It just needs to be like a big sit down whole conversation. Right.

Her part is it sounds like the friend isn't willing to even talk about it. So I don't know how you're going to deal with that. Well, I don't know if she's trying to talk about it either, really. It seems like they're both kind of, I mean, she says the friend isn't talking to her. But I think that like maybe she's not talking to her because she's not coming to her in a genuine way. Yeah, I agree. I think it's really awkward. and it's much easier said than done,

but like the lead up to those kinds of conversation is always worse than when you actually have them. I think you start off by apologizing for what she saw and then saying the reasons behind why you did it. And then also I think you're right. Like you can also say I don't think that, that you were never supposed to see that. It doesn't make it okay.

But like I also don't think that we're entitled to go through each other's private messages. Yes. I agree. I think she does understand why this roommate's upset so she can say to her, I would feel the same exact way. If I saw this on your phone, I would also be really, really hurt and kind of clean out the wound a little bit here. I think the worst thing you can do, which is probably what they're doing right now, is both just be so

kind of afraid of the confrontation and afraid of feeling like a bad person. So when you're afraid that you've done something that makes you look bad or that makes you feel, bad, there is this tendency to kind of like go to the opposite extreme and just like defend and focus on what the other person did that was so bad to make yourself feel better. And then that's, that's where it can become like friendship destroying. Totally. And you see that in the email where she's like, well, now I have to move out and like, I want to move to a different area and I was doing it. Like she's gone. Sometimes it does feel easier to just go like as a protective mechanism to just go to the extreme end of the fallout to be like, okay, she's not speaking to me. Now I need to move out.

Like, now, like, you've already like kind of drawn the line in the sand in that way when you haven't even really tried to work it out. Like, I bet, again, I don't know what she wrote, but I would imagine this could be worked out with a clear-the-air conversation. Yeah. And I do think it could go in a bad direction if she comes at it like, okay, so are you moving out or what? you know, which I could say some people really doing that because they're just so afraid of having to say, I am so sorry. I would have been really, really hurt if I saw those messages too. And just like bathing in your own remorse for a little while, which is kind of what it takes

to get to the other side of it and addressing the fact that it was uncool that you went through your phone. But sometimes those things are so scary that we just want to avoid it and be like, all right, I'm moving out or are you moving out or are you ever going to get over it or are you ever going to talk to me again or just addressing it in a way that feels very defensive. So it's not going to be easy and you're going to have to sit. This is the issue with these types of confrontations is the hardest part is like sitting in your own remorse and shame and like allowing that moment between the two of you where she

letting her say what she has to say about how hurtful that is. and just like letting it sit without coming back and getting defensive and going immediately to what you're upset about. Like give that time to soak in. And then you can say, well, you also went through my phone and do both. But you can't just like jab, jab back and forth. Otherwise nobody ends up feeling really understood. Right.

And she can say like, I should have come to you directly with this issue. Yes. But I didn't. I don't know why I didn't. I guess I'm afraid. that you're going to whatever her fear is there. Right. Yeah, she said, I didn't want to take my anger out on you.

Well, this is what you can say. This is a learning experience for me. Next time, I'm going to try to just like wait until I'm calm, you know, journal it out or, you know, whatever it is, kind of like calm down and then come to you directly. Yeah, she probably shouldn't have come to her when she was heated and venting, you know, saying mean things. but she could have, you know, had that moment of I'm going to be patient, let my body come and then come to you and talk. So this is a learning experience for both of them. Right. And clearly her friend has, I would imagine, her friend has some built up unsaid tension with her because I don't look through people's phones casually, like friends.

Yes. The only, I think a reason that someone in her friend should be honest with herself with like, why am I looking through her phone, what tension, what unsaid things do I? have that I don't want to confront directly. So instead I'm, you know, violating someone's privacy to kind of see what they're saying behind my back. Like to even think someone was saying something behind your back, you clearly have some things that you haven't said either. Totally. And that's why to come full circle, I think this could be good for their relationship so that they can kind of learn how to talk about what's really going on between them instead of, you know, just kind of hiding in the shadows of, you know, I'm going to go through your phone and I'm going to talk shit behind your back.

Like, let's just, you know, flush this all out. So this might be a good, if this was a couple, I would say this is the start of a new chapter for you two. Yeah. A way to be more honest and not be conflict avoidant, which ends up having things like this just fester and eventually they come out. Right. And that's the thing, interestingly, about like, roommates where, you know, if you

approach it right, you can learn open communication to prepare yourself or living with someone you're actually going to be romantically involved with. When I think about having a roommate, it's like there's so much stuff I just didn't want to say because I like didn't want to do the thing, but then you get the pent up resentment and you're kind of like, well, I don't need to have open communication with this person. I'm not even like dating them. Yes. But it's such good practice before you live with a partner. Totally. And just the practice of if you let resentment build, it will come out. There will be symptoms of your resentment. And then you're going to have to deal with it. Yes. Good luck. Good luck. Let's do a bet you see. Do you want to read it? I'll read this.

Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Absolutely love the show and I'm loving the Baby Steps episodes as well. I'll get right to it. I've been considering going on Ozempic to help me lose weight. I work out every day and eat mostly healthy, but I'm struggling to lose weight as I get older. My husband is vehemently opposed to the idea, stating that people with diabetes, actually need the medicine and I don't need to be putting unnecessary drugs into my body. I see his point, but ultimately it's my body and I feel like I can make the decision for myself with my PCP. So my question is, how much of a say do our partners get in our medical decisions? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. This is an interesting one. I mean, she doesn't write about this, but I would, I would ask her

if she were here, how much of this is about a medical need to lose weight. and how much of it is about, you know, her just wanting to look a certain way. Not that I think that if either of those things is true, that she should or shouldn't do it, but it seems like something that she needs to unpack and feel really comfortable around. Right. Yeah, I see that. I think that's why she's kind of saying, like, between me and my primary care physician. So it's sort of like, I think if she's getting the green light from her doctor who's saying, like, yeah, this might be beneficial for you, then that she feels like that's kind of, okay, then I do need this for my health in some way. But I see the perspective of her husband who's probably doesn't feel like this,

like it sounds like he's trying to say, you're just doing this for aesthetic reasons, not really for health reasons. People who need it. Don't, right. I don't know about the people who need it. I'm sure there's enough OZMPIC to go around. Yeah. This is a pharmaceutical company that wants to make money. If there's more demand, they will make more. I remember there was a thing about like a shortage a while ago. I don't know that that's still a thing or like, again, I think that the company will probably adjust to provide it for everyone who needs it. Right. Yeah, it seems like it's it's more about his fears of it being unhealthy for her. So, you know, one thing you could do is maybe invite him in with your, you know,

bring him to the appointment with your primary care doctor. and maybe if she feels like this is something you need, she can explain to him why it is something that would be good for you. And he could ask all the questions about if that's something you're comfortable with. But I guess the betches this question is, do I need to even allow my partner to have that level of access to me and my doctor and what's good for me? And that's a, that's an interesting question. I mean, I think ultimately at the end of the day, it should be a my body, my choice kind of situation. Right.

In all things that are about someone's individual body, does that mean that someone isn't entitled to an opinion? I don't think so. I think that like you can take someone's opinion, understand it, try to like take it into account. But ultimately like you're the CEO of your own body. Like you're the one who's going to be ultimately living with whatever decisions you're making there.

Right. Yeah. I mean, I totally agree. I think if he's concerned about her health and they're married and their partners, I think it would be nice for her to give him access to feel like information that might soothe him around this decision that she's making. But it doesn't even sound like it was that he was concerned about her health. It was more like, oh, there's not a shortage of this medication.

But I do, I think this is another good example of learning to accept your partner's influence. Because even personally, I don't know if I've told, I certainly don't think I've talked about it on here, but when I first met Jeff, he had one tattoo on his arm that he was like trying to get removed or in the process of removing. And through the course of the time that we've been together, he's gone the opposite direction and now he has like two full sleeve tattoos. And when he first went and got like, he got like a half sleeve at first. And I was really upset. Like I was kind of like, this is my body too. Like I have to.

Right. I have to look at this. And I wasn't into it and I didn't like it. And I was like very rejecting of this thing that was like he was doing to his body. That was sort of his choice to do. and now, however many years later, I embrace it and I like it and I get it because like I think I get him more and like I understand that's kind of like his artistic expression and that's his passion and that's, you know, something that's meaningful to him.

So I think somehow, and it's not exactly related, but I think it can be related and like if your partner can understand why this is important to you, can understand what. what is going on behind it, how you think about it every day, how this affects you, what you're hoping to get out of it. I think it can open up a deeper conversation of trying to understand one another instead of trying to kind of be like, well, I'm not the type of person who takes a medication to lose weight. Or I'm not the type of person who needs to, you know, draw permanently on my body in order

to feel whatever, artistic, you know, just kind of saying like, okay, tell me what, why this is important to you so I can more have a better understanding of you. And maybe in loving you, I can accept that influence a little bit more, which I think is a big part of growing together as a couple, is not trying to change the person to make them more like you, but kind of accepting their influence on you. I definitely had a similar situation too. That's a good example that you gave. And like when I first time when I was with Mike and I was getting Botox, he was very against it. Right.

He, like, was like, didn't want me to, like, look like a real housewife and, like, thought it would, you know, he didn't like that look and he didn't want it. And I'm like, and I remember it was kind of like a fight of like, you know, respect your opinion. Like, I'm not going to overdo it. You have to trust me. Right. That I, like, know what I'm doing with my body in my face. Yes.

I mean, that's the kind of thing where it's like, would he prefer if I didn't ever get it? Yeah. is that do I take that into account when I'm doing it? Do I think about how much I'm doing and how often I'm doing it? Yeah, maybe that's a good influence in that way. But ultimately, you know, I think that that fight was resolved in the same way. Like, it is my body. And that's not medically necessary.

Right. Totally. You know, the tattoos aren't medically necessary. So I think the medical necessary thing is like not really what it's about. And I would ask him, because when you give two, when you give two, two reasons. I usually think neither of them are true. Right. So I would ask him, like, what is it about this drug that he fears, you know, is he upset that I like have this, you know, that I have this insecurity that I'm, you know, always trying to lose weight? Is that something that bothers him?

Is it something he prefers the way I look now or he's worried about that? Or maybe it is really the side effects of that or something down the line. He doesn't know what it's going to look like. I think that, like you said, an honest conversation about it. And if it is a little bit about the way you look, I think if she brought some vulnerability to that conversation of, yeah, part of it is like, I don't like being this weight. It's not comfortable for me. I prefer to look thinner. I feel more attractive when I'm thinner.

That's okay. Mm-hmm. Yep. That's an okay thing to do. And like you, you know, and you can say, I've weighed the risks of this. I know there are potential side effects. Like I've taken all of that information into account and I've decided I still want this. Yeah. Yeah.

I do think this is more of a get to know you conversation and kind of really being able to take a look inside each other's heads and hearts and find out what their fears are, what their, you know, concerns are, what, you know, what makes them feel good. And, you know, she might need to give him a little bit more of a clue into how her weight affects her mental health or what she's trying to do with this. So all these conflicts are like the wedding conflicts where it's kind of like, okay, this is just a symptom. We have to figure out what the, you know, this is a good way to get underneath the hood and really get to know each other and what's important to each other. Right. I mean, it's kind of nicer this way than he's like, yeah,

get on a topic as soon as possible. Right. And get a boob job while you're there. Right. Right. Like it's like it is kind of, it does feel nicer when the person, is trying to get you to look, to not change yourself. Yes. Yes. Like that does feel somehow more comforting. Right. Than the other way. Totally. I get that. And but you, again, you have to kind of allow yourself to grow with your partner instead of forcing them into your, you know, path that you've decided about the partner. That's why when people are choosing a partner and they're sort of like, well, what if in 20 years, this, that? And I'm like, in 20 years, who knows they you know they might decide they want to move to you know antarctica and and explore

the penguin population you know you have to kind of let your partner live their life and just be there all right well good luck yeah it's i think you guys are going to be closer after both of these first and second emails i think you this is an opportunity to get closer together if you do it the right way agree and i think people really just want to be heard and like feel like they're what saying to you, especially if they're your romantic partner, they want to feel like you care about their input. Yes. And you've considered it.

Yes. Yes. Agree. Even if, again, ultimately, I think we're both in agreement that, you know, if you wanted to, you were talking about a year ago growing your hair out to be all gray. I can imagine, you know, Jeff might be like, I don't know if that's a look that I'm so into. Yes.

Totally. I mean, we've been together, it's coming up on 15 years married, 17 years together. There's stuff that we've changed over the course of time. And that's part of what you have to learn to figure out together is like how to accept each other and embrace each other. So yeah, you can give your input. But if it's important enough to the other person, then they have the right to do what they want with their own body.

Let's do some intentions. Hi ladies, I'm looking for a mantra or a guide for positive self-talk as I progress through my career. I'm a 36-year-old woman working in health care. Since graduating with my PhD about four years ago, I have a lot of learning experiences and opportunities for growth. I'm not someone who sailed through school and have many failures before getting to where I am now. In order to continue growing and advancing in my profession, I decided to take a big test this spring. I started studying and I'm tapping all of my resources for guidance, including peers who have taken and passed this test before. My problem is that I keep talking about it as if I might fail. For example, if I pass

the test this spring, instead of when I pass the test. I find myself very anxious about the possibility of failing and often bring this up in conversation with peers and my spouse looking for some kind of solace and encouragement. I realize that failing this test is not the end of the world, but in addition to the test being expensive, if I fail, I feel like it would indicate that I'm a bad clinician and that my worst fear is true, that I simply do not know what I'm doing. I don't want to manifest failing the test with all my negative self-talk. What can I say to myself to flip the script and encourage success rather than getting myself all worked up about failure?

Thank you in advance. Fearful of failing, Betch. Yeah, this is, this is hard. The problem is there's no way to really objectively judge somebody's abilities aside from taking a test. And these tests, I hope she can understand. they're just a measure of how much you can regurgitate on a given day. It's really not a measure of her abilities as a clinician. I don't think with most of these things, it's your ability to focus. It's your ability to absorb the information for a period of time and then regurgitate

the information in a discrete period of time. If I had to go back and take the test that I took to become a psychologist tomorrow, I would probably fail it because I don't think that I would, you know, there's so much nuanced information that I just had to memorize and then regurgitate. And that's how I think most of these, unless it's like a clinical exam where you're demonstrating your skills. So if I were her, I would really separate out for starters, her abilities as a clinician from her ability to be a good test taker and pass this test, first off, because it sounds like what's really important to her is that she wants to be the best clinician and she even says it's not the end of the world if I fail this.

The thing that makes it feel like the end of the world, as she said in the email, is that it means that she doesn't know what she's doing or it means that she's not going to be a good clinician. So I think she needs to separate that out for starters. Right. Yeah, no, I think that's great advice because it seems very wrapped up. And I think whatever her past failures of tests, clearly it seems like she's, she has these memories of not doing well on these tests. And then it becomes this like self-fulfilling prophecy where you can think that things from the past are going to happen in the future. But the past has no bearing on the future. And that's, it really is tough because our society is very based on, you know, being a good test taker is a skill in and of itself,

which some people, unfortunately, they get very anxious and one of the symptoms of anxiety is inability to focus. So that's really going to affect how anybody does on a test. So it really doesn't have to do with how good she's going to be at this thing. And I think in the past, she probably, I would assume based on what she's saying that she has trouble with test taking, not that she's not good at what she does, not that she's not, you know, able to help people in the way that she wants to help people,

but she has test taking anxiety. So I would focus on that. And there's a lot of resources out there for test taking anxiety that I think you can hone in on. But I would really definitely focus for her on when she has these negative thoughts about not passing the test, focus on how proud you can be of yourself that you are setting this advanced goal for yourself and that you're studying and pushing yourself every day to get there because that just means

that every day that you're studying you're learning more you're becoming better you're trying to improve your skill set and that's something to be proud of whether you pass the test or you don't pass the test and there's not there's only a limited amount of stuff you can do to make sure that you're going to pass it. One is studying and two is dealing with some of the test taking anxiety, which I think is a thing for her. What do you think of this thing that she kept bringing up of like, I say if I pass the test instead of when I pass the test?

Like, do you think there's anything around the framing of that? Is that like, okay that she does that? I mean, to me, it's like to say when I pass the test seems a little like, I was like too sure. Right. Right. Right, arrogant. But also, like, that's not, I mean, that might put her in a better mindset.

Like, I don't know, what do you think about that kind of stuff? What it signals to me, and I don't think it matters. Like, we had that whole manifesting conversation, and I don't think it matters in the universe if you say if or when. I really don't. What I think matters is that the if, I think she's saying if I passed the test to kind of hedge for the shame that she might feel to those people if she doesn't pass the test. So that to me more indicates that there's fear of, that she feels shameful or she's

afraid of feeling shameful in front of other people if she doesn't pass it. So that's important information for her to know about herself and try to work on. Like there is no shame in setting a high goal for myself and trying my best to get there. even if I don't get there. So I think if she can, that just indicates to me that she doesn't want, she's trying to avoid the shame of not passing the test. And that shows that that's something that I do think she needs to work on with herself, is relinquishing that and saying, I feel proud that I'm setting this goal and going for it

instead of, you know, I feel shameful of setting this goal and going for it if I don't pass the test. because the whole journey is exactly the same, except for that one moment where maybe she has a panic attack or freaks out or whatever happens and she doesn't can't regurgitate the information on that day. So it's almost like the reality is that she is doing all the right things and there's really no shame in that. So I would just use that as an indicator that there is some shame under there that I hope

she can find a way to get rid of. Right. And maybe like if she can do that, she's more likely to pass the test because there's not so much pressure on it of like, you know, it means so much. So like when you're a bad test taker, I assume part of that is when you go in and you're very anxious, it feels very high. Like if you're like you can't concentrate or all, it's usually imagined from the pressure of feeling like there's so much pressure on this test as to what it says about you, as to what it means. Like she's even saying it's not the end of the world. So like if you could go into it being like, you know, I've talked about this with fertility, like more of an observer like, I'm going to try it.

We'll see what happens. I get the score. That's interesting. You can try it. You know what I mean? I can take it again. Take it again. Keep taking it over and over again.

Like if you go into it with that mindset, then maybe that anxiety that you go into the test taking with goes away because it just really doesn't mean that much to you anymore. Right. It's not like your whole identity as a clinician. and a person and how smart you are and all these things are wrapped into this one test. I totally agree. And that's how I think manifesting does work. Like manifesting works because it allows you to let go a little bit of this.

Of the outcome. Right. Of the outcome. So you can kind of enjoy the journey. And just for today, know that today I am doing everything that I can to be the best clinician that I possibly can be. and that's what's actually important to me.

So I totally agree, and I think it will allow her to be calmer on the day of the test because she'll be taking it with a grain of salt. This is not my whole identity wrapped up on this one test. This is just how much can I regurgitate because I guarantee you in a year, anyone who passed this test, if they took it again in a year cold without having studied,

probably wouldn't do that well. And they could be an amazing clinician. And so the intention that I wrote down for her is instead of thinking about the outcome of the test to think, I am proud that I'm pushing myself to be the best clinician possible. Or I'm proud of myself for setting a goal and going for it. More about the process than the outcome, because that's something she has control of and she can work on every day and feel proud of herself around. Love that.

I'm proud of it. I think then, yeah, it's reframing the whole story. Let's do some triggers. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, thank you so much for this amazing podcast. I have a triggered scenario for you. When my boyfriend and I started dating, his mom made frequent comments about how much I ate. For example, she said, oink, oink, when I ate a piece of cake at their house. That part is insane.

Insane. That's like a 10-year-old brother says to his eight-year-old sister. It's ridiculous. So me. She said it's, quote, great that I have a, quote, healthy appetite, unlike girls he's dated in the past. And she said, quote, I don't know how you could eat that whole thing when I ate a sandwich at their house that I thought was a very normal size. My boyfriend and I both talked to her on separate occasions about how these comments make me feel self-conscious and I would prefer for her not to comment on how much I'm eating. after four or five of these conversations, she finally stopped commenting directly on how much I'm eating.

However, she has replaced the comments she used to make with new comments about meal size and appetite. After every single meal we eat together, regardless of what it is or how big it is, she makes several comments about how the meal is huge, she's so full, we'll all have to exercise later to make up for it, etc. After we had lunch with her recently, she asked me if I was going to have dinner that night or just so, skip it because lunch was so big. I didn't think it was that big. I think it's completely fine and normal to comment on being full after a big meal, but what bothers me is how frequently she makes these comments, even after she eats nothing but a side salad as her entree at dinner and the fact that I know she's forcing herself to refrain from explicitly commenting on how much I'm eating, which makes

her general comments about how we all just ate a huge meal feel like she's still trying to find a way to say that I'm eating a lot. Am I right to be triggered by this? Thanks for all you do. A bet you just wants to enjoy her food. The boyfriend's mom clearly has a lot of issues. Yes. This is a her issue.

I mean, I think it's extremely triggering. The oink oink thing to me is like crazy. Crazy. And like that's extremely triggering. I don't even think of myself as someone who has food related issues, but if someone did that to me, I think I would like be very, very upset. Crazy. Yeah.

I totally agree. And that comment specifically is very triggering. And all the comments are triggering. But sometimes, and you always say this, where it's like it can help it feel less triggering. Because to me, it's so obvious that she has an issue around food that you can almost like feel bad for her. That like this is all she can think about like before, during and after a meal. And maybe that might make it feel a little bit less triggering. and almost if you can just expect it,

like I say to people all the time, the sky is blue and your mother-in-law is going to comment about something about the meal. Like if you can just expect that it's going to come, you know it's going to come. This is part of her, whatever she has to work through. You just happen to be there for it. That might make it feel a little bit better. Like if it was anyone sitting there,

she would be making the same comment. Right. Yeah, that's true. The expectations, I feel like are what makes a situation like doable or traumatic. Right. You know, if someone I didn't expect, if it was a random person who did the oinkoing comment, that would probably be like way worse. But you know this person has like this almost like their own disorder where they can't help but do that because they're so enslaved to their own body issues. Right. Like I agree. If you can say like how isn't it like so sad that someone like can't just enjoy a meal? and they have to make it about how much everyone's eating and think about it, and they're thinking about it all the time, all day long.

Like that is, that is kind of like depressing. Yeah. For her. Yeah. And as I'm hearing you describe it, I actually feel bad for the boyfriend's mother because just the idea that when she finishes a meal, she's thinking about skipping the next one to make up for this one or exercising.

It's just really very obvious that there's something that it just sounds like she's really a prisoner to, you know, an eating disorder of some sort and bringing you into it doesn't feel good and is definitely, I can see some of these comments being triggering. But I think if you can just be like, okay, this is just her. She's going to do it every single time. Kind of just expect it, almost like laugh at it in your head or feel bad for her, one or the other and move on. It might feel a little bit less triggering. But I do hope she gets help because it sounds like she's probably pretty miserable because this is one meal that this person is sharing with her every now and then.

And this is what she probably deals with every time she puts food into her mouth. Yeah. She sounds like she could use a good therapist. Yeah. But I would say the continuous comments about everyone being full or how much everyone, like generally like how full everyone should be, I would give that like a four. The original comment, I think, is much higher. Right. Yeah. And also you can just be you and be like, actually, I could probably another half, but, you know, whatever. I'm not or, you know, like I have yours.

Yeah. I mean, I think you also don't have to pretend to go along with whatever she's saying. I think you can be proud of the fact that you have your appetite and you enjoy food and you like what you like. Like you don't have to pretend to be on the, you know, same train as her. But the original. comment, I agree, was really just obnoxious. As these comments continue, I think the score can go down because you can just kind of expect it and realize that it's a her issue. Right. I'd give the original comment, like an eight if I was like meeting my boyfriend's mom for the first time. And she said that. And she said, point, oink. Oink. It would be like a nine, maybe. But I agree. Subsequent comments, like are four. Yeah. I would agree with that. Just expect it. Let's do one more. Okay.

Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I have a triggered scenario for you. I recently got laid off from a job I worked at for 10 years. My entire team was eliminated with no advance notice. Maybe five minutes into my one-on-one Zoom with the HR guy who was delivering the news. His cell phone rang loudly and he informed me twice that he really needed to take the call. Then I think perhaps he realized that that wasn't cool and said, but do you have any more questions? This was the first time he'd even opened the floor for me to ask anything.

since prior to this he kept trying to make awkward friendly chit-chat, and I hadn't had an opening. So I literally just laughed and said no before I could say something I'd regret. I know I was already in an emotional state because I was being let go, but this made me furious. Am I overreacting? I think 10 years she worked there and they had like a five-minute Zoom call to end it. That sounds pretty triggering.

And then trying to make it like less than five minutes. Right. Saying I have to take this call. It'd be like if someone was breaking up with you and they were like, do you have any question? One second. I really have to take this. Right.

Certain things like it's like this. It's respectful to like there's a respectful, classy way to do things. And then there's a way to show the person that you don't really care. Right. It's like what you said in the beginning, part of what makes this and a lot of things triggering is feeling like you are not, your experience is not being recognized. by the other person. So this person did not recognize that she was losing her job that she had gone to and been working at for the last 10 years. And that that might be something that was emotional

that took some time to process, that she would have questions that. And he just, you know, I think he was being kind of cowardly, wanted to just drop the bomb and run out of the room to make it easier for himself. So I think that's what he was. was doing was trying to just avoid having to sit with you and your negative emotions. But whoever has the job of firing people has got to know how to do that. I agree. Very triggering. Yeah, it's a crappy job. I wouldn't want his job either. He has to be the one to deliver this news, but they need to teach him how to deliver the news and say, you have to be willing to sit there while somebody is really upset and or angry and or crying or sad or expressing emotion. Just like in a breakup. Exactly.

I mean, could you imagine if someone was like, I really have to take this call, but sorry, it didn't work out. If you have any questions, text me. Yeah, no, it's, I think it devalues the person. Here's the thing. Either way, like, obviously, like, it sucks to get fired. You're going to feel shitty about it either way, even if he sat there for a while. But you might feel a little better if someone does something in the right way. Like, you might feel a little better if someone breaks up with you in, like, a way that allows you to be heard that's in person.

that is looking at you in your eyes. Yes. Is it the same outcome either way? Like, yes. Right. Are the questions probably going to matter? Probably not. Like, right.

But it's just allowing, it really is having your experience seen. And I think after 10 years, I could even see this. If this was like she worked there for a year and they fired her over a five minute Zoom call, I put that as like still kind of triggering. but like lower. But after 10 years, I would definitely put a five minute Zoom call interrupted,

have to take this call in the middle of it upwards of like a seven after 10 years working for a company. I agree. It's extremely triggering. Well, you don't work there anymore. Yes, totally. I think the theme of this episode

is sort of like being able to tolerate other people's uncomfortable emotions is an important life skill. It's really hard, though. Yeah. Like, it is very difficult. I will give everyone who's avoided discussions in this episode some slack. Like, it is really hard because you're kind of, I think it's a lot of it. It's like you don't know what to say.

You know, I was just reading something about kids and how to deal with kids when they, you know, like if a kid comes home from a soccer game and they're like, I suck at soccer. whatever and you're like, no, you don't suck like you're good or you did this good thing. That's not really as helpful as just saying to them, yeah, that probably doesn't feel good. What do you mean by that? Or like asking questions or just like letting them kind of get it out. I think sometimes other people's negative emotions make us feel so bad. Like we are empathic and we don't want to feel bad.

So we try to like shut it down by either avoiding or cutting the conversation short or saying something like, don't feel that way or it's going to be okay or whatever, instead of just giving them space to just be with someone as they express negative emotions. It's very, very powerful and can bring you much closer. Everyone knows when you're feeling a certain way, there's not much someone's going to say that's going to make you feel better other than allowing you space to say it and being warm and listening. I like that. I'm going to try to do that more. Yeah. I have to remind myself too because, you know, we are very empathic people and like feel. So it is hard to just, you know, look at people like, don't cry, don't cry.

It's like, no, it's okay. You know, it's so funny because at the summer camp thing or the overnight camp thing, there was this little girl that missed her mom. And I was, you know, trying to comfort her and she was crying and she was doing the whole, you know like she couldn't talk and I was telling her I was like it's okay she had her little blanket in her hands I said just how lucky if she was to have a therapist on the retreat I said just put your face in your blanket and cry go ahead just get get it all out go ahead cry and she was kind of like she did it and I could tell that that wasn't something that she was used to hearing you know like it's okay to kind of just cry it out and then she sort of cried it out and

You know, and the reason why I was able to do that in that moment and why it was easier for me is because I knew that it was going to, I had trust that it was going to pass for her. And this was just a moment. And she was going to feel better. But when you're in it and you don't know if it's going to pass for this person and you don't know, like if you don't trust the universe that like this is a fleeting moment for yourself or for others, then it feels harder to just let it be. If that makes sense. Right. You feel like you need to fix it right away. Yeah.

And so I was like, okay. Get out of there. Yes. Yeah. Like, all right, she's having a moment of homesickness. And like, I know it's going to pass because I am, I just know it is. And that's how it works. So me being calm and trusting that it was going to pass for her allowed her,

me the space to let her kind of cry it out and then talk more about it. And then, you know, she picked out of Taylor Swift playlist and we cranked up some music and then she felt better. So. Well, you could just tell you'll be back there next year. No, I'm not going back. I am not going back next year. I did my two runs. And Jeff is going to go back with Brooks in another four years. So he'll get to see what it's like. Yeah. That's cute. All right. Well, this was great. I feel more empowered to have difficult conversations. I hope so. I do too. It's a refresher for all of us. So all right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico and Rebecca Salz McCaffey. Editing by Basilio. Rez. Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294.