Oversharing - How To Stop Hating Your Ex

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

Today on Oversharing, Dr. Naomi and Jordana discuss the heaviness we’ve all been feeling this week, including how they’re each coping with the daily news coming out of the Middle East. A “Mr. Betch” writes in for advice on how to fight fair in his relationship. How do you stop yourself from letting things escalate with a significant other? The Betchicist question comes from a long-distance bestie who fears puppy love (aka an unexpected gift) may not be the answer. Dr. Naomi offers an intention for a scorned Betch to keep her off the voodoo doll. How do you get past your hatred for an ex? Finally, we are truly triggered by moms this week. Can we all just get along? Listen in to find out. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. We're back.

It's been a bit of a weird weekend. We record these a week in advance. So we're coming off of emotionally stressful three-day weekend, I would say. Totally. And it's funny because one of the last recordings we had, I was like, I'm feeling heavy and we had this kind of like heavy start. And then today it feels like there's a heavy heaviness to it too. So, you know, we had a back and forth about how and if to go there because I want this show to be calming and I want it to be a release. A release and a relief and a place to come to feel like more centered. So the last thing that we want is to have this be charged or upsetting or activating.

You know, it's tough to know how to address this in a way that's, you know, with our listeners' best interests at heart. Obviously, we're referring to the Israel-Gaza situation, for those of you that have picked up on that piece. And yeah, again, we record these a week in advance. I don't know what the situation will be by the time it is aired. But up until now, it just seems like you just hear worse and worse things every day. It's very like emotionally heavy. Do you discuss this with like your patience? Like how does how does this make its way into your life besides the obvious?

Right. Well, it's funny because with all the political stuff, like the election stuff and the Democratic Republican, and I'm pretty neutral. And I think my patients love that. Like I'm open to hearing everything and I'm very neutral and my body can remain calm. Like I could be talking to, you know, someone on the right and I can stay calm and someone on the left and I can stay calm. And when you're seeing what you're seeing now as a therapist and I know that my job is to

stay neutral and be, you know, kind of just a sounding board. When we're seeing what we're seeing now, I will admit that it's difficult. And I do think, you know, this morning, which is my first morning back, pretty much everybody had some feelings about what's going on. And so part of my job is to be there for them. And there's not a lot. It's interesting. People don't really realize like therapists or human beings. And although I pride myself as a therapist and really you know, I came from parents that were divorced and I was always part of why I think I'm good at what I do is because I see things from both sides. I've always been really good at kind of seeing both ends of a spectrum. And on this one, I can see that there are two sides to a story, but my body

is feeling very activated. And so it's, I'm only human. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's been, I'll say a tough day as a therapist and as a human being, but to try to, you know, maintain that physical, like, calm as all this stuff is, is coming in. Right. And it's interesting, I guess, to think about what we talk about here as like, you know, a microcosm of the world. And just like the idea of, you know, there's, you can work on your inner piece.

it's hard to control the situation around you. And it's not even like, this is even feels different than like, you know, a tornado or an earthquake that it just feels like there's so much like negative energy, so much violence, so much hate, so much like destructive passion. And it just, I mean, we've talked about this before, but like it just seems so far away from like the work that we try to do here around like mindfulness and. meditation and like, you know, just the way that you try to interact with people. It's like if we could do that in a larger way, like, could we avoid this kind of thing?

I don't, I don't know. Totally. Totally. And then this isn't PC either, but I've heard people say that if women ran politics, it might look very different. There's like a softer, more, you know, communicative. energy that would happen if people would just kind of take a more kind of feminine energy towards these types of situations. But I agree. I think this situation brings up all of the most primal,

visceral emotions that people have. And those are the ones that are the hardest to kind of calm and think rationally and calm body and calm mind when your physical life and body and and identity are being threatened. So that's why I think this is so activating. And this one feels even different than, you know, right left in politics. This is like life and death. This is, you know, this is different for a lot of people. So it's like all the intense emotions, fear, anger, grief, sadness, like everything that that, that, that, that activates that primal survival brain. And I think people, I'm sure you've seen this with your patients and I see it with myself.

It's like my own survival mechanism sort of kicks in when there's like a very intense moment. And it makes, I think my survival mechanism is kind of checking out or like wanting to remove myself from a situation. like when I think back to stressful times of my childhood, like that's kind of how I dealt. And I noticed that coming up in me now, it's just kind of wanting to like put my head under a rock a little bit just to like not have to deal. And so I, you know, I think people there's, and then you feel like a guilt because there's people who seem like they're fighting or there's people who seem like they're like in it.

And you're kind of like checking out a bit, which again is like sort of my my instinct. I would say when there's a little bit of chaos. Yes, yes. And it's great insight to recognize like, okay, my insight on myself is that I want to check out, although it's different. It's funny because like in your relationship, you want to like, you're the one who's like, yeah, like pressure to communicate. I want to resolve this.

I want to, you know, maybe because it feels like you have some hope of actually resolving versus when you're in a situation where you're a child with a family of parents. You're like, I have no agency. I have no agency here. I'm going to just bury my head under the covers. Right. And it would almost only add chaos to be like adding to the screaming or adding to the, you know, what seems like tension by getting involved in it.

Yeah. And I think it's okay to take a break from the news and to, you know, bury your head in a, in a, you know, a movie or a. reality TV show or something mindless for a little while. But I do see the perspective of people that are like, you know, if you stand silent, you're kind of part of the problem. So I do, again, I see both sides of it. I do think people are entitled to a break because nothing good is going to happen, especially when it comes to chronic stress. And this does seem as much as I hope by the time this airs that things are all better. I'm pretty sure they're not going to be. So when it

comes to chronic stress, and if this is going to be ongoing, that's where you start to get physical you know, manifestations and real health consequences. So I do think that everybody needs to take a break, even if you feel like it is your duty to be responsive and to be an advocate, you also do need to take a break and take some time to turn it off because otherwise you'll literally get sick. I agree. And I think giving people some grace on the internet to respond in like a, like in a, in a way that is different than the way that you would respond, I think is very important. I think there's like, somehow these things sort of devolve into like in there's a right way

to do this or there's a wrong way. And you saw this a lot in COVID or you saw this a lot in other things. There's like there's the way that I would do it. And then like there's the wrong way, I think is a very common feeling on the. internet and I think people are so different that we do need to allow people a little bit of grace to like process information in the way that makes most sense to them totally and I think when you're feeling activated as I have been feeling all day so I get it but when you're feeling activated it is important to take that one breath or two breaths to be intentional about what you are

saying to other people on the internet or otherwise is always going to be best practice. Just like allowing someone writes something and then you just start chomping away back at them without pausing and taking a breath and being intentional, that's not typically going to be super helpful. Like take a pause, take a breath, make an intentional response. And it's very easy to just start taking your frustration and your helplessness. helplessness is a feeling that a lot of people are having and sometimes you can just take that energy that all those feelings the anger the fear the hate the the grief and just allow it to pour into something that feels like well I have access to this thing I don't have access to getting

these you know kids out of cages or whatever it is I can't help them but I can do something by you know reaming this person on Instagram and it feels like you're doing something, but you're really not. Well, it gives you, like anything else that you stress about sort of this false sense of control over your surroundings, which doesn't exist. But in my survival mechanism of checking out, to take this to a little bit of a lighter note. Yeah, where are you going when you check out? Well, this weekend, I checked out and I removed like a full walls worth of wallpaper from my house.

It probably sounds really satisfying. Just ripped it off by the corner. I have to say it was amazing. It was like just what I needed. It was like, it's such a tedious, boring thing, but it's also extremely, and this is wallpaper that I think has probably been on here, the walls for like 40 years. You'll see when you come visit. You should make, you should make like an ASMR video of that, like shh, sound of the wallpaper

that, you know. To me, it was more like this wallpaper is so ugly. I apologize if the person I bought the house from is listening to this episode. But it's so ugly. And so with every strip, I was just like, this house is mine. Yes. This house is like it's not. You know what I mean?

It felt like I was taking ownership of this home. I was kind of nervous to get into it. And Mike, I think was more nervous about me getting into it because I think, I think he thought I would not be able to do it or I would start and then give up. Oh, okay. And that it would look very weird. And I kind of doubted myself. I was like, can I do a do it yourself home improvement?

Like I have no skills in any of these things. And I remember speaking to someone about it. And it's interesting how when you speak to people, you sometimes hear a different perspective. And I was speaking to this guy about it and he was like, why are you telling yourself you can't do it? Like there's no reason to think that you can't do it. Like look at a YouTube video.

There's like there's no reason to think that you can't do it. Totally. And so I kind of have to think that you can't do it. had that in the back of my head. I bought a like $50 wallpaper removal kit and I just like got to work. And it's just, I don't know. That is a perfect way to bury your, you didn't even bury yourself in like some kind of reality TV, social media, well, social media wouldn't be really burying right now. But that's incredible. I love that. It's productive. It's physical. You can see the results right. in front of you.

For those of you out there that want to bury yourself, it's something, it's almost like, um, you know, like I always talk about like Buddhists, like making mandala's, like you're seeing this very slow and steady progression progression and you're doing something physically. You're focused on something. Your mind is focused. You can't, even when you're watching a show, you can kind of be like wandering, you know, around in your mind. But if you're kind of like, okay, I have to do this and I have to do this.

in a certain way. So I'm not going to cause damage to my beautiful new house. There is a certain level of focus that you need to do. I love that. And I can I tell you I spent, I think between, I think I spent like seven hours. How much wallpaper is there? There is, I haven't even scratched the surface of the amount of crazy wallpaper. I mean, if you're, you guys can't see me right now, but the room I'm in is red.

So this is a painted room. The wallpaper is crazier. and it's everywhere. And I was going to hire someone to take it off, but I was like, no, I could just take it off. Awesome. And you saved yourself some money. I love that.

And I got like a therapy, like my own therapeutic entrenchment in this situation. I love that. Painting, that type of thing. That's awesome. I'm excited for you. That is like, you know, the kids are very into like satisfying videos. Like they watch people like. dunking their hands and squeezing slime and these weird kind of things that are

oh interesting that are like satisfying like you know i could see that people always to think that about like you know those pimple popper videos like same concept and there is yeah something very satisfying about popping a pimple and i think that um pop a pimple remove wallpaper i think it's more satisfying to pop your own pimple than to watch someone else pop a pimple but yeah i don't know, teach their own. I wonder if there's a complex around that that you could psychologically unravel. Well, again, maybe it comes back to this idea of like I'm doing something that's like resulting in a change.

Like I don't have a lot of control, but like I squeeze this thing and the stuff comes out. Comes out. And now it's gone. And I've like accomplished something. It was just like ripping wallpaper off. Yeah. It's usually not gone though. It's usually like red and huge and scars.

but that part of it's gone. For that one split second. Yeah. Yes. That's true. Let's just get into our first email. And hopefully this will be a little bit of a break from all of that for anyone who's listening. All right.

Let's do it. Okay. Also, if you want to leave a voicemail, you can give us a call at 646363-6294. All right. I'll do the first overshare. And I know we wanted more mail. listeners writing in, so I'm very excited about this one. Okay. Dear Dr. Naomi and Jordana, I'm writing in because I'm struggling with how to fight. My girlfriend, 32 female and I, 35 male,

have been together for almost two years. We both have had a rough streak of dating and relationships leading up to the one we have, and we are learning a lot together. We both have anxious attachment styles and have worked together to try and navigate how best to help and support each other for our entire relationship. She really is my person and I am so happy I found her and we were building an amazing life together. My issue is that I have noticed a few times in fights, I get really upset and angry and I really struggle to cool off during the fight. Not sure if the history helps, but I was raised by a single mom and I'm one of three children. My mom was the type to blow up and yell and be angry over even the smallest thing, like if the whole house was clean, but the mop was left out.

I remember as a kid vowing to never be that angry and to try to be compassionate. as much as I possibly can during fights because I felt her anger was never fair or justified. I feel a lot of guilt and shame in myself for being exactly what I told myself I would never be. I don't blow up over little things, but I still don't want to be angry to the point of feeling like I need to shout. The only time this seems to happen is when I feel unheard or some unjust treatment. I try to be introspective and when I am told I have an issue or I'm at fault, I really own up to it and try my best to be better and grow and evolve from it.

not always, but most of the time. I feel like she is unable to own up to being at fault at all, and that seems to be my trigger. I don't mean this in terms of keeping score in the relationship, but just that I want to feel like I'm not always the one who needs to work on things. She will either escalate what I'm saying into some reflection that she's an awful person who can't do anything right, or say a loose apology with an immediate excuse as to why she was justified in doing the behavior. I feel like I try and take accountability, and in those moments I feel like she's not, and

that unfairness really bothers me. When I tend to try and clarify or tell her she's not a bad person and this is really a small thing in the grand scheme of things, she keeps resisting and following the same behaviors of escalation or making excuses. When I finally feel like I hit a brick wall with it, that's when I get angry. I don't feel heard. I don't feel validated. I don't feel like my opinion matters. Like, I am wrong for even suggesting it. My anger involves me escalating my voice, interrupting and eventually when I feel so angry and overwhelmed, I literally have to leave and self-soothe myself alone somewhere else. This doesn't help because she gets more upset when I need to leave. Trudana, I feel like you and Mike had a similar fighting style of him needing to be alone

to process and you wanting to talk things out with him. How did you overcome that? Ultimately, regardless of her behaviors, I don't want to be the type to be able to escalate this much to the point of loud, angry verbal spats. It's not fair to her and it's not the person I want to be. But I feel like in those moments, I lose control over myself and I honestly don't know what to do to stop. What advice or strategies do you have to help with this type of issue? Sincerely, Mr. Batch. All right. Thank you, Mr. Batch. I love, again, hearing from a male perspective. I think it's great that he's acknowledging that he's part of self-aware, self-aware, looking to change, writing in, trying to find some help, knowing that he's turning into someone that he

doesn't want to be in this situation. So I definitely have some tips and tricks that I use with my couples to help with this situation. But I wanted to give you a chance first to just share kind of your perspective from what you've been through. Yeah. I mean, I would say we definitely, it's interesting how I think the way we fight has evolved and how much better at it. I think we've both gotten in the years, like, since we've started dating. And it's funny because, like, I feel like most people think of, like, the initial year or two was like a honeymoon phase. And in some ways it was.

But I also think, like, the fights we had were much more intense. And I think that, like, it's almost good that they were because I feel like us figuring out how to fight with each other was such an important thing for our relationship. and the fact that we like figured it out and we go through it so much differently now, I think it's like it was better to sort that out in the beginning than never fight and then work it out later because I think it would have been a lot. It would have been a big shocking thing. A hundred percent.

I do think that you can't even see what type of relationship you're in until you fight with somebody and go through the process of figuring out how to, fight well because every couple is going to have disagreements and issues and get the triggers that he's talking about. I mean, he's aware. Like his mother, I think, would become irrationally upset with him. And when he feels like someone is irrationally upset with him, unreasonably, that's a trigger for him. So he's aware of that. And I think a big part of figuring that out together, one is vulnerability. So being able to say, like, this is, this is a me-ish, Like this is a sensitivity that I have because if you are yelling or screaming or getting to that point,

there's probably a wound that's being touched and having the insight as this listener does of like, okay, here's my wound. I'm going to talk to you about this in a vulnerable way. Maybe not in that moment. So that's the first tip that I have for this couple and all couples is like, let's talk about our fights like before they happen or when we're calm. or at some other time, once you start to acknowledge that fighting is an issue, let's talk about it when there's no issue on the table.

Yeah. It's just a general conversation talking about, talking about it. So that way you could say, here are my triggers. We are teammates. Like when I'm triggered, that's when I need you to like step in and, you know, pinch hit for me or I need you to come in and block for me. or I need you to come in and be my supportive teammate in that moment versus kind of like pouring salt in the wound, which I think people do inadvertently because he's screaming or he's raising his voice

when he's triggered. So now she's, you know, hearing less and reacting more. And it's a vicious cycle. So I totally agree. The vulnerability in the beginning. I mean, what else did you guys figure out in those moments? I think a lot of it was just like, like for me, I hadn't really been in a, in a real relationship in like a long time or even like a real healthy one. And so I think it was like, again, when I felt triggered, when I felt something like the way that I would approach it, which was more like anger and like a sense of I wanted to win the argument. And it's like sort of, I think reframing that for me is like, do I want to win or do I want to be understood? Yes. And I think if you come to someone like you said with both,

Instead of like, I think I originally would come with like things in an accusatory manner of like, and, you know, saying things of about someone's general personality. You don't care about me or you're a bad, you know, you're a bad boyfriend, something like that. I think to more about like the vulnerability aspect of like you said, like why something is triggering for you, what your fears are. And I think if you come with that, the person comes towards you. of wanting to go away from you because you're like yelling at them instead and now you know sometimes I'm not like never triggered again anymore um it's much less but like when I am I think there's there's a way that I know how to do it of like when you said that thing it it hurt my feelings and like it you know it made me think that when you said that that you felt this way or

whatever it is and I think that's different than like either not mentioning it by it up and then it comes out in a bad way or like doing something like this guy is saying that he's doing so yeah I agree and I think even going if you can recognize like the childhood place that this is coming from I think that's great information for your partner to have a lot of times I will recommend to couples to like have pictures of themselves as children like around their house if they're living together to just kind of be like this is. is the injured little, like you didn't do this. Like this is this childhood if you're open to being vulnerable and sharing what your childhood wounds are. It makes someone feel less like she said,

you know, her reaction is like I'm the terrible, makes her feel like a terrible person or a terrible girlfriend or whatever it is. It's like, no, this wound was already here. You can either help me heal it or you can ignore it or you can, you know, make it worse. So sometimes when you acknowledge that you didn't create this wound. This wound was here and I would love if you would treat it tenderly. So I think sometimes if you are aware of what you're, and a lot of people, especially in the beginning, and I don't know if this was you, you kind of want to still present your best self and not really let the person know that you have some childhood wounds because then maybe they'll think, oh, damage goods, I'm out of here. But like everyone has wounds. Everyone has

some damage. No parents are perfect or a life situation is perfect. So I think exploring and expressing what the existing wounds are so that your partner can be tender with them is a great first start. And then just in terms of communication, and I don't know if we've talked about this, but I have kind of like a three-step protocol that some people like because it's like very specific. And the way that you do it is you kind of, you have to take turns, which is hard for people, right? So when people come into therapy, a lot of times I will prevent them from just having a back and forth. Like you say one thing, then you say one thing, then you say one thing, then you say one thing. Because then you're constantly preparing for the thing you're going to say.

Your defense. Yes. Yes. So you take turns, one being the speaker and one being the listener. So when your job is the listener, you are. just listening until it is your turn to be the speaker and then the other person's job is a listener. And this is stuff that you can't figure out on the spot. You have to figure this out beforehand and whoever feels like they have more emotional resources. And maybe it sounds like

for this listener in the beginning, he's the one with more emotional resources, maybe in the beginning until he hits a wall like he said and then he's gone. So if you're the one with the more emotional resources in the beginning, you be the listener first. And the listener's job, and it sounds kind of awkward. It's to be verbally abuse. The listener's job is to actually, first of all, listen to what the other person has to say. And then the first thing you're going to do, and this is the part that's the hardest for people because it feels awkward, is to almost give them a book report back of what it is that they just said in your own words. So you can't, when you do a book report, you can't just copy the book. You have to take what's in the book, put it into your own words,

and recite it back. So what I hear you saying is you feel X when I do Y. And it sounds stupid like I'm just saying back what you just said. But first of all, it pauses you from being defended. because you're focused on writing your book report, so you're really listening. And then sometimes when someone just hears their own feelings back at them, it's validating. It's validating. It diffuses the situation. It makes you feel like, okay, this person is actually listening to what I'm saying. You're not even adding any new information at the stage.

You're literally just saying, what I think you're saying is this, is that right? And sometimes they'll be like, no, actually, that's not what I said. Let me say it again. And you might really not, you might be having trouble listening to the important parts of what they're saying. I'm saying, well, that almost feels like you're getting to the real root of like any fight, which is, again, I think, wanting to be understood, especially when you're fighting with your partner, right?

Yes. It's like, usually I would imagine comes down to just like someone not feeling understood. Yes. And saying like they have to say it louder, they have to say it again, they have to say it in different words, they have to give you examples, they have to say. they have to have supporting evidence. And a lot of times you get it, but you just don't want to say you get it. Because for some reason, you want to get your turn or it feels like if you say what,

if you validate their perspective that you're not going to have a chance or they're not going, you know, that the conversation is going to end there. They're going to be right and you're going to be wrong and they're going to move on. But no, then you take turns. So the first one is reflection, which is like I'm going to give you my book report on what you just said. Then the next step is where you jump to, which is validation. So those two are different. So one is I'm just going to repeat back to what you said in different words. Make sure I get it right. And two is I'm going to actually validate something in what you said. And this is hard for people,

because sometimes you don't necessarily validate the entirety of what they're saying. But you have to pick something. Pick something. Pick something in what they said where you could say, I can understand how you feel that way. A beautiful one. I would feel the same way if that happened to me or if I were in your shoes. And bonus points, if you can say, you know, when I did this, it also probably made you feel that way. Like two months ago or last week when I did this thing, like if you're the one who can come up with an example of something that the person hasn't mentioned yet about how they might have

felt that way, the argument, I promise you. the argument will go from a nine to a two on the escalation scale. Right. Well, it just goes to show like, again, if you're fighting to win versus you're fighting to feel understood, those are like two completely different ways of approaching the same situation. Because if you're fighting to, in your mind, if you're fighting to win,

you're like, I'm not going to give you a point by mentioning something else I did. It's like, I'm going to find you a point and put it on your scorecard. I'm going to review the tape. I'm going to find a point. I'm going to put it on your scorecard for you. And it brings everything right down. Because it's not even like you're just saying, I understand on these examples that you've already mentioned. It's like, I'm seeing you. I'm aware of your experience from a week ago and how this may have made you feel. And at that point, it's going to make a huge difference. And then the last one is support. So it's reflection, validation, support is, how can I prevent this? What can I do moving forward

so that I don't, you know, pour salt on this wound? What can I do going forward to make you feel more understood, to make you feel more love, to make you feel valued, whatever it is that the person is looking for, and take note and actually try to do it. And then you swap. And then the other person gets their turn to do the same thing. And I can pretty much guarantee if you can actually do this, the argument, you will both end up feeling closer, feeling more calm. And it's a great kind of three-step strategy on how to handle these things. But to address his issue, and we've talked about this so many times, about if you do hit the wall where you're both screaming or you're activated or you're not really listening, I think it's great. And I would highly recommend taking a break.

when that happens and saying, hey, let's adjourn for a little bit. Let's meet back up at such and such time or in an hour. And when you're gone, you have a job to do. You can't just leave and say, okay, I'm going to take my break and do whatever. Your job when you're gone is to once you calm your body to really try to lean into what the other person was to do some of this on your own before you come back into the What was she trying to tell me? What was hurting her? What, what did I hear from her and how can I come back and start with that? Because if you take the break and you come back right where you left off with your both being defensive, you're going to end up back screaming within three minutes. Right. You actually have to think about the other person's side during your break. Yes. So it's not a real break. No, I mean, take a break, take your break for a half an hour. distract, calm your body, do whatever you have to do. But then before you come right back,

once your body's calm, before you come right back, you have to lean into the other person's perspective. You know what you don't have to rehearse what you're going to say. You know how you feel it's going to come flowing out of your lips. You have to rehearse the other person's perspective before you come back. I mean, this sounds like a solution to world peace. I'll be totally honest. like honestly like I just think there's so like you said going back to like the way that women fight or handle things or like you know solve problems like I just feel like the world would be so much better if we did this on all sorts of levels totally yeah but it starts at home yes bit by bit we'll work our way up but yeah I do believe that my mind if people did act with a little

bit more mindfulness, which is just slowing down, being intentional, being aware of what's happening in this moment instead of your fears of what is going to happen down the road, it would prevent a lot of conflict. But that's not how we're wired. We're wired for survival, especially in that part of the world where people's survival is threatened every day. Right. It's hard to act from a more evolved mindset when you're literally in physical danger. Yeah. Yeah. No, totally. Let's do a betcha says.

Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, big fan of the Betches podcast. Would love to get your thoughts on the following situation with my friend. I, 29 female, have been friends with Stacey for almost 10 years. Even though we've lived on opposite sides of the country for five years, she's still my closest friend. About six weeks ago, Stacey's beloved three-year-old French bulldog, Charlie, died suddenly during a routine surgery common for that breed. Stacey was very emotionally attached to Charlie and has been absolutely traumatized by this loss.

It's been six weeks and she's clearly still grieving. She's lost a lot of weight, cries every day, only sleeps on the couch. Charlie slept in the bed with her and she's looking for a therapist to help her work through her grief. My heart really goes out to her and I'm doing my best to support her long distance until I'm able to visit. Here's the issue. Today I texted Stacey's boyfriend Josh to take.

check in. Josh has been dating Stacey for about a year and a half, moved in with her earlier this year. Josh appears to have processed Charlie's death and seems to be getting impatient with Stacy. He's told both Stacey and I that he doesn't think it's normal that she's still grieving. The kicker. He told me today that Stacey's dad has a Frenchie puppy on hold with a breeder to surprise Stacey with in the hopes of cheering her up. Josh thinks it's a great idea. When I express concern, he doubled down. I think this is a great idea. I think this is a an awful idea and I'm tempted to tell Stacy. I don't think she's emotionally ready for a puppy and I think she'd agree. I've always been suspect of Josh's emotional maturity and I know Stacy is not very emotionally

close with her dad. So while this is well-intentioned, I think they're ignoring her feelings and rushing her through the healing process. Moreover, I think it's irresponsible in general to completely surprise someone with a puppy, considering the responsibility and commitment and involves. What do you think? Do I tell Stacey about the surprise or do I mind my own business and see how it pans out? Am I completely wrong and a puppy might actually be good for her healing? Thanks for your help, long distance best friend. I thought this was an interesting one. I was like, I mean, as a non-pet owner, I wasn't entirely sure what the correct move would be.

Although in the email, I am getting a sense that she doesn't like the friend's boyfriend and that might be clouding her feelings about getting the dog. Just because like the second thing she said about surprising someone with a puppy considering the responsibility it involves didn't really seem like that big of a thing because she just had a dog that she was fine with doing the responsibility for. But I understand the other part of it. But part of me was like maybe she just doesn't really like the boyfriend. I don't know.

What do you think? Right. Well, I could see that little clue. I don't know about his emotional maturity or that type of thing. Look, I agree with her. I think that everyone when they lose a pet is ready at different times for another pet. Six weeks seems early, I think. And I've seen this before where someone who doesn't have an animal or didn't raise that

animal from a puppy or didn't spend, didn't grow attached to that animal for some reason, sometimes can really misunderstand the grief of losing a pet and feels kind of like, okay, six weeks, like enough's enough. This is not normal when I will... Put a Band-Aid on it. Yes. I will say it is normal. I think this does happen.

I mean, pets are huge part of your life. They're just like always there. Even like a family member that you don't live with is not always there. They're not there when you wake up and you go to sleep and they're not there when you eat dinner and when you come home from work and when you leave for work. And so pet loss is a huge grief. And I agree, I would never surprise someone who lost a pet, maybe a kid, but not even really. You know, like if she wanted a new puppy, she could go out and buy one herself when she's ready.

I think she expressed it to the boyfriend that she didn't think it was a great idea. I don't know what more she can do than that, but let the chips fall where they may. She did express that she didn't think it was a good idea. And if Stacey isn't ready for a puppy, it's a little puppy, it's cute. I'm sure somebody else will take it. Right.

I don't think this is going to result in like a catastrophe. And my other thought was like, if Stacey's like overwhelmed with the responsibility of it or she doesn't like it, maybe you could watch it for a little bit. I don't know about that. They live far away. What do they put the puppy in and over? I guess she,

right, she lives far. Never mind. I don't know. I seem like well intentioned, but I see, I totally see what you're saying. Would that be,

like if someone did that for you after you're a dog died, how do you think you would feel? I would not have liked that at all. You would not like it at all. Okay. If my husband came home with a puppy six weeks after my dog died, I would be like, bring it right back.

I would not want it. That makes sense. Yeah. I mean, again, like I don't, not having been a dog owner, I don't think I would fully understand it, but I can see why that would feel that way. Yeah. You know, I think it feels like you're trying to replace some, you know, like it wasn't just a dog.

It was that dog. It was like the relationship that you had with that dog. So it's, you know, it's kind of like you can't just bring in another dog and it's going to be like, oh, great, like it never happened. And I do think what the part that's. it's frustrating the friend and perhaps might frustrate Stacy is that it does feel like they're rushing her through her grief process by trying to just patch it up with a brand new puppy. If it was that easy, then nobody would grieve their animals.

They just go get another animal. It just doesn't really work like that. Right. I understand why someone would have the urge to do that because you probably feel if someone else is grieving something and they're in so much pain, you're like, how can I fix it? I do think it's well-intentioned. I get that. And they probably never, like, had a deep, deep love for an animal. And it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with them. But I do think six weeks is a little bit soon if she's still not sleeping in the bed and she's still not, like, she's still crying every day. And she's not through her grief yet. So I think once she starts to show signs of feeling better

and getting back to normal, that would be a better time. But I still also don't think, surprising, I would just say, I would just ask her beforehand. Like, do you think another puppy would make you feel better? Just like a curious comment. And, um, well, on that note, if you are with someone who is or, you know, related to someone who is grieving and I'm sure you feel relatively helpless and you don't really know how to, if there's, you know, they seem like pretty depressed about situation. Like, what do you recommend to help that kind of person?

person because I can see why someone they're like I don't know what to do there's no like let me and especially I don't want to gender this but I feel like especially men have this idea of like being a fixer like yes you know anything but but just listen for days on yes and that is one of the hardest parts about being in relationship is just sitting with someone in their grief and I mean it's the most sacrificial thing you can do. You know, it feels like, oh, I'm going to go out and I'm going to spend $2,000 on a puppy. That's a big sacrifice. I'm spending money. I'm doing the research. I'm getting this puppy. But the real sacrifice is like, you're crying and you're sitting on the couch and you're being depressed makes me really uncomfortable and I hate it and I want to change it and I want to fix it.

But I'm going to do the opposite and I'm just going to sit here. And I know the boyfriend's getting frustrated. The partner's getting frustrated. But I think what he needs. needs to do is just sit with her on the couch and hug her and ask her questions about what she misses. And when she's already in it, I wouldn't take it when she's like on a great day and be like, what do you miss about Charlie? But like if she's already in it to kind of be like, do you want to look at pictures of him? Do you want to talk about your favorite memories? Like she's in it. So be in it with her. That's what I would recommend, which doesn't feel like you want to distract the person and take them out of it, but it is one of the most selfless things that you can do to just,

and you can, this is any grief that anyone is going through, our urge is to try to want to fix it and make it better. And there's some things where you can do that, right? If someone's like looking for a job, you can send them opportunities that you see that might be helpful, great, that works out like 2% of the time that you send someone, the one job opportunity that then they get.

But maybe, but with grief, all you can really do. And you can ask her, do you want, do you want me to distract you? Do you want to go do something fun? Or do you want to just sit here and feel this? And if she just doesn't want to be distracted and she still needs to sit, just sit with her. And that's hard. I get it.

That is hard to do. And, yeah. And is there an amount of time after which you does feel like this has been a long time? Yeah. I mean, look, she's seeking therapy, which, I think at six weeks, I would recommend seeking therapy, right, what she's doing. And I do think there is a grief process that maybe she needs to do more intentionally with a therapist and kind of do more, you know, grief work there.

But yeah, I'd say if after six weeks she's still feeling like this and she's not doing anything about it or seeking therapy or trying to get some help, that would be frustrating. But she is. Right. Okay. You know, and I think, I mean, I don't want to put a. time limit on grief, but, you know, I think if she, if someone's just sitting and wallowing and not doing anything for several months and they're still depressed and not functioning well

and not getting help, then I think you can jump in and kind of be like, I'm really concerned. And if you're not going to get help, it's hard for me to be there. You know, I can't be the only person that's helping you with this. I'm not a professional. Like there are professionals that are trained in helping people work through grief in a way that makes it feel like you're moving towards the light. Okay. That's fair. So I guess to the list to the to the listener who wrote in, I guess maybe like it's hard to like what should she.

I suggest you just sit with her like might not go over well with the boyfriend, especially if he doesn't have that high emotional maturity. But you could say I don't I don't know if she's ready for that. I don't think it's a good idea. and then he's going to do whatever he's going to do and let him deal with the impressions of that. She voiced her opinion. There's not much more she can do.

And if Stacey doesn't want the dog, like what I said I would have done. If someone would have bought me a puppy after six weeks, I'd be like, thank you. I appreciate the gesture, but I'm not ready. Right. And that's what Stacey may or may not end up doing. And you'll feel validated if she sends the puppy back.

Yes. which is all that really matters. Right. Good luck. Let us know how this one goes. Let's do some intentions. I'll read them. Hi, Trudana and Dr. Naomi.

I love listening to the podcast every week and it's really gotten me to think about setting intentions, but I need your help. I've been married for three years, have a daughter and another on the way. I'm very happy with my husband and my life, but occasionally I remember my ex-boyfriend and just wish the worst for him. I love this email. A friend of mine who is still his Facebook friend told me that he had a child right after I had my daughter. In true millennial fashion, we stalk the hell out of them.

L.O.L. He seems like he also has a good life, but I just wish he didn't. He was so awful to me for the two years we dated. And even though we broke up almost 10 years ago, I'm still upset at myself for letting someone treat me the way he did. That is probably why I'm constantly hoping his penis falls off. He breaks his ankle or that he just generally has a terrible life. I realize that's not a good way to think, and it's not doing me any good to harbor such negative emotions towards someone. Is there an intention you can give that can help me when these negative thoughts pop up? I tried this thing from eat, pray, love, where I would say, send light and love anytime I was having mean thoughts. That did not work. L.O.L. I'm truly not that nice. Hoping to have an intention for someone who just doesn't want to be mean, but also doesn't just want to send love.

Thank you for all you do. A mean thoughts, betch. I love this. As someone who's like inherently vindictive, I don't know where I got that from. I also have like vindictive thoughts that I think are not my best, the best version of myself. So I'm excited to hear your intention for this. But I think that something she said in there is really important. And I wonder if you picked up on it too.

where she says, I'm still upset of myself for letting someone treat me the way he did. Yes. So that was something you held on to too, right? 100%. And I think that's really what this is about. You know, I think that she is still holding on to the person that she was and feeling guilty or stupid or shameful or, you know, and I told you, my new favorite is Olivia Rodrigo and I've realized that her her first album was like I hate this guy he broke my heart

and her second album was like how did I let this happen and feeling really kind of you know shameful and embarrassed and all the things about how she allowed it to happen so I think there is a real thing here about people who you know your stage one is like oh my god this guy is such a jerk. I'm just like hateful and I hate him and I hate him. And then there's a stage that's like, I played a role in allowing myself to be in this situation for two years. So she stayed in that relationship probably for far too long. And I think a lot of the hatred that she's having towards him is probably just, you know, her needing to forgive herself. And it's so interesting. I have a lot of patience that will come.

in really feeling regretful or having trouble forgiving themselves for something they did at a young age. So like, I'll have, you know, patients that are in their 30s that, you know, feel badly about something they did when they were 19 or 20 or 22 when like your brain is not even fully formed yet, you know, before the age of 21. I don't know. Does she say how old she is? I don't think she said, but she said this was this relationship. They broke up almost 10 years ago. Right. So I would imagine it's in her 20s, you know, mid-20s, the latest.

Totally. Like I almost, I hate to say this, but I don't know a lot of people that didn't have some kind of a dysfunctional relationship in their 20s. Like it just, it's almost like a right of passage. And moving through it, is a big part of that is exploring like why did I it's not a dysfunctional date or a dysfunctional two dates it's a dysfunctional relationship which means that you stayed so I think a big part of that is figuring out like why did I stay in this what void was I trying to fill and the self-awareness

might allow her to kind of forgive herself or to you know kind of realize that I'm not that same person that I was 10 years ago. Like I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago. You're not the same person. It almost sometimes feels like an entirely different person. Yeah. I think that's a great way to think about it. I think that's a big part of it is, again,

like that's the much more interesting part of it. Like this person, I think we all think of everything is so personal. And I remember my therapist because I, you know, complain about a guy also. to him and he'd be like people are always saying why would you do this to me and really the other the real question is like why do you do this because it's really not personal and the real question that you that you want to know is like why did it why was I okay with this or why did I stay with this and that's the much more interesting question because that's about you like whatever happened

with him like he's not in your life anymore he's like not here so it doesn't even matter why they did that it's much more interesting to think of like how are you different than you were back then? What beliefs did you have about yourself or the world that allowed you to stay in that for so long that you're no longer using that allowed you to overcome that and be in a healthy relationship with your two kids and whatever? But I think even if you, sometimes even if you've done that, you still get, I don't know, it just feels like an easy target for that part of your brain.

Yes. reason. Maybe, I don't know, don't feel like you have that part of your brain. No, well, it's the same part of me that like always sees kind of the wound, you know, like whenever someone does something, I have like a, like a radar for the wound. And so I do see people that act most of the time when people act in hurtful ways, hurt people, hurt people. Like I always kind of see their wound. And then I'm sort of like, oh, okay. Well, they're just kind of. of like this wounded child, and I'm sure this guy was, and hopefully he's changed. He's probably not the same person that he was 10 years ago. And that might help you be able to forgive him in the same way.

But yeah, I think, you know, the vengeance and that desire and that hatred and that aggression comes from like not seeing the wound that causes these people to act that way. And I'm not saying that there's not sociopaths that just act hurtfully for absolutely no reason. But a lot of times it's defensive, it's self-protective, it's, um, you know. Right. I agree. If you can change the like anger to sort of like sympathy, that's sort of when you're the real winner. Yes. Like the real winner just kind of feels bad for the others and they don't like want to like get them. Right. Yeah. If you could find that place where you just feel bad because whatever. Maybe he was some insecure, 22-year-old kid, and he needed to see how many women that he could date at the same time to make him feel better about himself because he was a dork in high school or whatever.

That was the only thing. Whatever his story is, I'm making. I'm obviously riffing. I have no idea. We don't have any backstory. Where's this coming from? No backstory. But like whatever, a lot of times insecurity is a huge player in these situations.

situations. Someone that feels insecure has, you know, needs that ego boost ends up doing selfish things. Like, ego is selfish. Ego just wants to constantly be fed. So when someone has a weak ego, they tend to do things to feed their ego blindly. And that ends up hurting people. And a lot of times that's where some of this stuff comes from. I don't know, you know, I'm assuming this is all vague, but a lot of times that is a big part of why people act in whatever way she gives us no indication of how he acted. But I'm sure that there was some type of a weak ego underlying all of it that you just have to feel bad that he doesn't feel like he can stand on his own two feet and he needs all this whatever the external stuff was that he was doing to make him feel temporarily better and you feel

crappy. I would like, like you said, try to feel bad for him around that. But I, you know, the intention that I wrote for her was more just about the fact that it was 10 years ago. And she's a different person and he's a different person. So I wrote, you know, something she can remind herself is we are all ever-changing beings. I will forgive my former self and his. Hoping like that. But he's not that same person that he was 10 years ago because hopefully you're not that same person that you were.

10 years ago that tolerated being treated like that. So it's hard because we're like the same flesh and blood, sort of. We're actually not exactly the same flesh and blood. But like we feel like we are the same person, our identity and whatever as we were 10 years ago. But we're not. And we're not going to be the same person 10 years from now. So almost detaching from that so that you can forgive yourself and forgive him.

That's true. If you think of that version of yourself as sort of like a different person, it feels less personal also. Right. In some ways to who you are now. And that comes back to my whole thing of like who I am, like the untethered soul thing that I always talk about. Like who I am is just my consciousness. And my consciousness is changing from moment to moment, let alone decades. So like what I'm paying attention to now,

is like who I am. And what I was paying attention to 10 years ago was probably very different than what I'm paying attention to now and where my mental focus is and where I'm living my actual life. And what do you think of that stuff she was saying about meditations,

about like sending love and light? I feel like that's a little ambitious. I would just start with like a little neutrality. Yeah. That does sound like a stretch to go from like hatred to love. Right. It sounds like you wouldn't really believe it. Yeah. I mean, you could say the words, but yeah, I could see why that one wasn't, you know, linking up. And I do think you hit the nail

on the head. I think this is really more about her forgiving herself or she wouldn't even be thinking about him anymore. Right. And but your intention is great. I really, I really like that because I think that's the way to go. Thanks. All right. I'm going to remember that one by have a negative thought. Yeah. That's someone who wronged me. Especially if it was a long time ago. It's one thing if it was yesterday, you know, but if it was a while ago, it's like,

I'm a different person, they're a different person. Right. If you came across the same encounter, you would react very differently to it now than you would back then. And I think that's part of your self-forgiveness. It's like I would not, that would not happen to me again. Totally. It's like you don't you don't beat yourself up over, you know, something you did when you were seven.

So why do you beat yourself up about something you did when you were 17 or 22? Like where do you draw the line? My opinion is you're always ever changing and you should always kind of be able to detach from who you were before and forgive yourself as long as you're realizing and changing and working and growing. You don't have to cling to an identity that you had years ago. Okay, let's do some triggers. Do you want to read the first one? I'll read the first one. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I have a triggered for you.

Four years ago, I experienced a traumatic birth with my son. Long story short, after laboring and pushing, I required an emergency C-section that had to be done so fast I was put under general anesthesia. I was told if they had been even 30 seconds slower, my son might not have made it or would have suffered lasting brain injury. As it was, we both had concern and complications that kept us in the hospital beyond the typical stay. Luckily, my son is 100% okay now, though I still deal with some of the ramifications of the event,

physical and psychological. I've worked through much of what happened to me in therapy, but I'm still very impacted by what happened. I was truly the most terrified I've ever been in that operating room and the fact that I was not conscious when my son was born, not the first person to hold him, care for him, feed him, hear him cry, et cetera, is something that breaks my heart to this day. So here's the triggered. About two months ago, I was talking to my mom about a friend's birth experience and she asked me, was your C-section under general anesthesia? I was so stunned that she

didn't remember this critical piece of my trauma. My parents live across the country and so we're not around when all this went down, but they came to help once we were discharged from the hospital and so we're present in the immediate aftermath. I know I can't expect everyone to have been as impacted by what was a significant event for me, but my mom? Am I allowed to feel triggered by this? Not sure that it matters, but my mom had three uncomplicated pregnancies and delivered all three of her children without complications or pain medication. She obviously cannot relate directly to what I went through, which makes the experience

feel even more isolating. On a lighter note, thank you so much for the incredible podcast. You share with us listeners every week. This was a good triggered. I think this is triggering and I totally get how she feels because I feel like this is it's one of those things that would feel really isolating because you are going through it. Alone, obviously her husband was there. But I think when you go through this like medical stuff that most people don't fully understand,

I think it can feel really isolating and like people don't get it. And maybe there's some lingering stuff from her mom living. far away also and then she kind of feels like she's not understood or seen by her but i think on the other side because before i even went through any fertility stuff i feel like i would just think like of the end result of any one of my friends who had any birthing stories i'd be like well baby's fine you're fine like seems like it all went well yes right totally you're your your pinpointing exactly what the issue is is that the mom was just focusing on okay blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, baby's fine.

And that's probably like what she was listening for the entire time, which makes this listener feel kind of like, you didn't even hear the whole point of the whole trauma of why, like the whole trauma was that she was not conscious when her baby was born. That was the whole thing, that she wasn't able to hear him cry. She wasn't able to be conscious when he came out and hold him and have that whole first moment.

moments experience with him. And it's like the mom missed that whole part of the story and was just exactly like you said, okay, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, healthy baby. Right. Because that's what I used to hear. Right. So I get it. Right.

Right. Totally. And it's funny. And it's interesting that you're owning up to that because you're kind of like, all right, like, all right. Big trauma. Like you at least, at least you have a baby. Like I haven't even gotten that far.

So I get it. And I don't know that that was where the mom was coming from because it sounds like she did have all these uncomplicated pregnancies. But she might have just been like, oh my gosh, there's some, you know, crisis going down. All I want to hear are the words, baby's okay. And then once she heard the words, baby's okay. Forgot it all. It was like gone with the wind. So I see the mom's perspective, maybe that she was just kind of focusing on, I just want to know that my grandchild is alive and healthy. and then just moved on with that. But it does sound like maybe she needs to have another conversation with her mom about

it might have been a whirlwind for all of us at that time. But there was this huge piece of the story that still affects me. And it's that I don't have these memories that I wish that I had, you know, when my son was born. I don't have these experiences. And I, you know, maybe she can have some understanding that her mom might have, you know, been so scared if she was part of the process that she was just like waiting for that good news and then blocked everything else out. But I do think if this is a big part of her story and her

trauma and something that she said she's still kind of dealing with, it might be important to reiterate that to her mother who for some reason seems to have blocked it out. Yeah. And I think another part of, I think the part that her mom had three uncomplicated pregnancies, I think is important. Because I think that it is, I mean, obviously, like, ideally we would all feel super empathic to things that we had never experienced or gone through or have no experience with. But I think it's much easier to feel a connection to something that you felt before. And so if she's never experienced, like, the fear of losing your child in childbirth or, you know, not being able to hold your kid when they come out, I do think, like, if you can do it, it's great. I think it's harder for me to feel compassionate about things that I've never experienced.

And I think it's amazing when people can. But I think that it's just harder. So I think she needs to sort of accurately relay just how traumatic that was if that wasn't, if that wasn't explained to her. Yeah. Right. And I think it's okay to say like it was kind of hurtful when you said that. It made me think you didn't even remember this super traumatic thing that happened to me.

Totally. I definitely think it's worth a conversation of like, you asked me this question the other day and I, this is an important part of my story and I just want, it makes me feel like you didn't hear it or you weren't, either you weren't listening or you blocked it out or you didn't hear it. But I, this is a big part of my story and I need to tell it to you again if you didn't remember. And maybe, you know, I totally validate this is triggering because that was like the main part of the whole thing of why you still feel, you know, traumatized by the event. And that's the part that she just completely blocked out.

So I think it's worth another conversation. I totally validate that this is triggering. It's your mother. I could see if it was like a friend or someone that was a little bit removed. But that's a person that you would think would be kind of really listening and an integral part of processing through that whole thing. And it does sound like she probably hasn't had any subsequent conversation. with her mother about the lasting effects of this if she didn't remember.

So that might be a place where the listener can be introspective is like maybe you shared it with her when it happened. But perhaps you haven't shared it with her since then or how you're, that you still have feelings about it because if you have and she still doesn't remember, then that might be like dementia or something at that point. And she's like, you keep talking about this thing and she's still not remembering that it happened. That's a bigger issue.

but if it just happened in the beginning and it was a big whirlwind and she heard the story and you know look I get it I still think it's triggering but I think she does need to know the bigger impact of this part of your story perhaps again agreed I'd give it like an eight yeah I would agree all right let's do one more I'll read it hi dr. Naomi and Jordana I'm a psychologist and I've been through a lot of therapy so I value Dr. Bernstein's therapy Appetetic approach and Jordana's opinions as well. Thanks. And Trudana too. I was diagnosed with an eating disorder, anorexia, which I recovered from with the help of a specialist. Ten years later, my mom started taking Ozempic and lost a significant

amount of weight. While size isn't an indicator of weight, she is the thinest she has ever been and would even be considered thin for someone in their 20s despite being much older. My mom recently started attending my workout classes and goes as far as taking two classes in a row. She's so excited about her new look and constantly talks to everyone about her weight loss. This is triggering to me. It doesn't help that now when I'm in my yoga class, trying to be mindful, she shows up, throws her mat next to me and starts talking about how she hopes it's a hard class so she can burn some calories. I try to avoid her, but there aren't any other yoga studios nearby.

And with her taking two classes a day, she always finds a way to show up to my class. I'm trying to navigate so many conflicting thoughts. I want to be happy for her because she is happy. But I'm also frustrated because she constantly discusses weight in front of me, knowing my history. I also worry about her health and if there will be adverse mental and physical side effects later on. Lastly, I'm not sure what is worse. The triggers in yoga class are the loss of an activity that improves my well-being.

I've tried discussing this with her, but it is not productive. While I'm frustrated with the situation, I have always been very sympathetic with my mom. And ultimately, I don't like the idea of hurting her feelings or making her feel bad. I appreciate any advice, sincerely, the tense yogi. These two sounds similar. It's almost like the mom being very dismissive of something that's a huge part of these listeners stories. So I can totally see. And it even relates to the beginning of like just not being understood. Like having these people that you think are your number one supports not really understanding what you're going through, where your wounds are and how they're continuing to be re-injured by not being. being seen. Right. Despite explaining that to her, it seems like.

Yeah, I do wonder what that conversation was like. She said she tried to talk to her about it. I really wonder. Well, here's the thing. If she has, like, if she has a history of anorexia and her mom is like this, I'm sure there's a lot intertwined with the way that she was brought up and the way that she was brought up to think about thinness and that, like, I think this is like a bigger discussion almost in a way, right?

because a lot of people who suffer from eating disorders, and you would know this, you worked in an eating disorder clinic more than I would. Sort of, I would imagine a lot of that comes with like these thoughts that they get from home or they get from their mothers about what it means to look good or what it means to be value or what it means to be like attractive. Yeah. So I think there's probably a lot of that that goes into this. Totally.

And I think part of this is when an eating disorder. order is very similar in some ways to a substance abuse issue or any of these things that you're never 100% cured from it. So she might need to go back and do some more therapy on it and kind of explore the triggers around it. And I'm not saying I think her mom is very triggering. And I think if she had a conversation with her mom about it and said, hey, I'm here in yoga to be mindful and to be present and to be healthy, I'm not here to lose weight. Like, that's not what I'm doing here in this class. So, you know, when you come in and start talking about how many calories we can burn, it really just kind of sets, you know, takes me off track of where I'm trying to go. You know my history.

Whatever her conversation was, it sounds like she tried. Maybe you want to try again to explain it in a different way. Like, here's my wound. I'd appreciate if you could help me heal it. instead of re-injuring it, but I do think that sometimes eating disorders like substance abuse or OCD or some of these other tendencies where it's not like, okay, I went to therapy, I'm cured, I'm better, I never have to revisit this again. It is the type of thing that's going to flare and subside and flare and subside and you might, it might subside for 10 years and then come back and you get a little flare up. So I do think if she's tried to talk to her mom and she's not changing and it does seem like there's almost no way out of this, there's no other yoga studio, her mom lives nearby,

this is something she just, that's going to happen to her. I think her only course of action is to try to go back to therapy and see if there's any bits of this that are, that she needs kind of refreshers on how to talk to herself, how to combat her eating disorder voice, how to take pride in a healthy, moderate body that's not too thin that she's taking care of and maybe find a way that she can find her mom's comments less triggering and almost see her form herself in her mom, which doesn't feel great either. She wants her mom to be healthy and not to be going to these extremes of taking two classes a day and being like extremely thin. but what I'm sure is happening is she's kind of like, ooh, that might be nice to go back to being

extremely thin. Like that felt really in control. There were parts of that that felt good, that she knows are not healthy for her, but there is temptation. It's like you're recovering alcoholic and you go to a bachelorette party and you see everybody drinking and it looks like a great time until you're, you know, six weeks down the road and like in a puddle of your own vomit in the middle of the street. And then you remember. why it wasn't fun. So she might need to remember why she wanted to get help for her anorexia and why being that thin really didn't end up good for her. But I think I wonder if there's places where anorexia comes from a desire for control. It comes from feeling out of control.

And I wonder if there are other places where she's feeling out of control. And this is just triggering that or if it literally is just her mom, which it could be, really could be. really could be because I could see why this is triggering. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's some other things that she's feeling out of control around. And so anorexia, which was a coping mechanism for feeling out of control at one point might be tempting her back at this point if she's feeling out of control. So I get it.

I wish she could go to another yoga studio. I wish her mom would respect her boundaries and not wanting to talk about weight and size and calorie burning. Right. But it doesn't sound like that's happening. Don't you think there's probably an also just like an added layer of resentment about like these thoughts about food and calories and how you look just being like ingrained in her? That this was like the cause.

Right. That you kind of. I don't know not saying it is, but. Yeah, that perhaps you started this. I did the work to get over it and now here you are like trying to inject it back into my life. Yeah, totally. Right. Yeah, I could see why this is 100% triggering.

They're oftentimes, I mean, not always, but they're oftentimes, especially if this mother does seem like she's desiring thinness. I'm sure she sent that message that thin, thinness was desirable when this listener was growing up that probably did play. a role in this. But the idea, again, of being complete, having your story completely ignored, like your trauma, which I'm sure getting help and recovering from an eating disorder is really, really, really hard. And she did it. And you would think your mom would be the one to like be the most supportive of that sort of recovery. Especially if she's like asked her flat out and had a conversation asking her not to do that. It's almost like, you know, and family members do this too where they're like, okay, I know that my daughter is a recovering alcoholic, but I'm still having

wine at Thanksgiving dinner. And that's not like the most supportive thing that you can do. Right. But her good time is the priority or her boasting or, you know, making it known that she's on a health, quote unquote health kick, although it doesn't sound like the most healthy thing. But that's more important to her than supporting her daughter's, you know, evolving, changing, again, ever changing. We are all ever changing. She was feeling in control of this. Now she's feeling less in control. And as much as I wish her mom would be more supportive, if it's not her mom, it could be a friend. If it's not a friend, it's the media. So she might want to just strengthen her scaffolding around her recovery.

I think that's great advice. I'd give this one in eight. Yeah. Yeah, there's something really, really infuriating about someone who's supposed to love and care about you, like pushing your buttons. Doing the opposite, it seems like. Well, heavier episode today, but I think we still had some laughs. Yes, we had a couple.

We had a couple of good laughs. If the world could get its shit together, we'll keep it light next week. Yes. Let's hope for that. All right. That's our hope. That's our time. Great work today.

Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby. Editing by Jazz DePatos and Shannon Sassone. Guest booking by Ali Friedlander. Send your emails to oversharing at betches.com. Betches.