Oversharing - How To Stop Sabotaging Your Own Relationship Success

Episode Date: May 10, 2022

Jordana and Naomi are back for week two of the podcast and start things off with a convo about one of the most common sources of aggravation we all share: customer service. Why does the person on the other end of the phone get under our skin so often? Then they tackle the equally relatable topic of self sabotage. The (long af) Overshare email of the week involves a listener who ended things with a guy that was giving her f*ckboy vibes, but now she’s wondering if her past relationship problems caused her to sabotage the whole thing. When should you trust your gut, and when should you ignore your own misgivings? Next, they discuss a “Betchicist” ethical question about listening to a roommate’s therapy session through the walls (and what to do when they’re the ones you’re talking about). Finally, the show closes with another round of Triggered featuring bad kissers, backhanded compliments, and inconvenient truths. Send your emails to [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail at: [phone] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast. It does not constitute medical or psychological advice. And you should always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Trinidadne Abraham. And I'm clinical psychologist, Dr. Naomi Bernstein.

And today we are back. It is our second episode ever. Very excited to be here. last time I was visiting you right outside of Dallas. So that was exciting to be like together. This time we're virtual. But I feel like the energy is still there. That was so fun.

I loved having you here. That was really fun. I know. And it's great because we got to go on our walks and we have like our deep convos. And it just feels like you're like re-energized after you like hang out with someone that you haven't seen in a while. Totally. I felt so, I really felt like the warm and fuzzies after you left. Like I felt like I kept wanting to text you about random things and just like rehash some of our

conversations. So I really did feel re-energized and reconnected with you. It was really nice. I loved it. I agree. And that's why this podcast is great because we get to like now do that every week. It's just much more public. Which is fine.

I feel like most of what we talk about, I'm kind of like there might be other people that would benefit from these conversations. So I'm glad we're doing it. Yeah. Well, I thought I'd start this week on a topic that literally was just happening to me right before we started this recording where I don't know if this is everyone or if it's just me, but I find myself to be like a pretty rational calm person. Like I'm not the person who's like flipping out at the grocery store because they're out of like the thing that I want. But when I'm dealing with like customer service people, I feel like that brings out the most frustrated, irritable, like angry side of me. Right.

Besides my, besides my in fight with my husband. I was wondering if you almost had a take to get people saying that a lot. Like, I'll give you, I'll give you two examples, actually, of customer service things that, like, they really stick with you all throughout the day because it feels like they're like pulling one over on you. Right. So one was like earlier this year after I had my Bachelorette in Tahoe and then our flights got canceled, like the day of the flight, the flight back. And no one was picking up their customer service like calls. So I had to basically, like, in order to go home, I just had to book a different Delta flight. And I paid like $500 or whatever for the Delta flight.

Right. And then I finally get someone on the phone later that week. And I was like, you know, I had to book this other flight. Well, they're like, well, if you had waited for like a JetBlue person, they would have like rebooked you for free. So like you're out of luck. Oh my God. And I'm like, triggered. Triggered.

And then I like find myself. Then again, I become like the worst version of myself. I'm like pretending I'm like but I had children to get home to I don't have any kids. I'm like how you know like what am I supposed to do just wait around on the on the phone for you like for days to see like when and again oh the next flight was like two days later like what am I supposed to like just sit here and wait like 3,000 miles from my house just for you to pick up the phone whenever you feel ready and that's the only way I should get reimbursed it was a whole thing. Right then they have their line that they just give you that they give everybody and you know they're reading it off a paper and it's like so. frustrating talk to me like a human exactly and they like won't but and you just feel like I know I'm right and it feels so unfair and then I had another thing with moving where like they misplaced a box and they were trying to tell me that like I told them to leave in it in my apartment and I was

very very you know what I mean where you're like am I crazy or are they crazy because there is a whole thing where you're like am I actually like because there's usually one irrational person in the conversation and you're kind of like, am I actually just being entitled or like, right, you know what I mean? Or being irrational or is it this company? Right. Well, I think in that, moving is so stressful that like I was saying, if somebody told me you left the box in the prior apartment, I'd probably be like, oh, shit. That's so annoying. Why did I do that? I left the box. Like I don't think that I would have the confidence to say, no, 100 percent, I didn't leave the box. I know you have the box, but it's great that you did because I got, well, they found it.

Right. So I was like, well, you see? Like, do you know what I mean? Like if this were, if it were any one person that I was speaking to, I feel like I would have had like that redemption moment of like, you see, but it was all like several different people and no one, no one is invested in this as me or cares as much. The other thing about customer service is that it's like an anonymous person. That's just a voice on the other end of the phone and you'll never have to see them.

so it's like a good platform for rage because there's no consequences. Like you could just hang up at any time. It's not going to affect your relationship. You could just let it all fly. And then you find yourself making, at least maybe you probably don't do this because you're normal. I find myself making like threats that like, do you know what I mean?

Like you start threatening them. Like they don't care. Like I'm never flying JetBlue again. Right. I'm leaving like Yelp review. Right. And they're like that's like I don't know. They don't own the company.

And also, I guess the other thing to realize is like they deal with people like you all day. So they're pretty numb to like the outrage of like, oh, we did have the box. Like that's like if it was like one interaction a day, they'd probably have more sympathy, I would imagine. If there's any customer service representatives out there, right in on your end, from your side of this, I'd love to hear what it's like to have all of everyone's rage projected on you throughout the day. I feel bad for you. We're here to help. Do you have any tips for like being, for, not for them, for me, for like not letting that stick with you all day, like the injustice that's being done to you?

I hear you. It's hard. I, you know, it's real, because there's nothing you could do about it. But what I try to do, and this is just personal, this isn't something that I would say, I try to like justify it with something to balance it out. Well, I got the flight for pretty cheap anyway. or, well, I saved money on this thing. Right.

You know, sometimes that helps a little bit if you try to like balance it out. That does actually. And it's kind of like I agree with that one. I will rationalize that in my head. Or I'll be like, okay. One, I could afford it. And two, like it's not like, you know, like financially bankrupt me. And two, almost like they're winning more.

Right. You're giving them the power. over the unfairness of it all day and thinking about it all day. It's almost like, not only now have they taken your money, but they've taken your time and calling them and then your mental energy, just thinking about it all day. How long you waited on hold, plus how long you were aggravated beforehand, the conversation itself and now the hours afterwards. So yeah, take back the power of your own mood and your own mindset. But yeah, our line here is always, well, we've spent money on worse things. That's what we always say.

Like we don't know when we've spent money on something stupid or got ripped off. I don't know how much it helps, but it's a thing. I think it helps. But again, yeah, if you're on the other end and you want to let us know why your company is complete garbage, let us no judgment. No, you got your box back. They did the thing. Yeah, it's fine.

And now I actually feel a little good because I'm like, okay, I like fought for it. I like didn't just let it go. Yeah. And I did get what I want. And sometimes it doesn't work out that way. So I do feel like overall it's a win. But then it's funny, the older you get, the more I'm like, am I the like the Karen, the mom, like the woman who just like. Yeah, you're probably getting there.

Right. Who wants to speak to the manager. Like, is it worth it to be that person? Right. Sometimes. Totally. You probably, I do think that's an interesting. Why does it kind of get that way more so when you get more like you said entitled or you're kind of like, I'm not going to let this one go, you know?

I said that when I turned 30. I was like, when I turned 30, I felt like I wanted to speak to more managers. Like. And then you have the flashback of like the mom standing at the counter leaning forward, you know, with the finger out. Totally. And like you think of your own mother embarrassing you like in any of those circumstances. And you're like, I hope that's not where this is going in my life. Oh, gosh.

No, my kids are the opposite. I'm so like not into conflict that they'll, be like excited if I fight for something. Like they'll be like excited if I want to call the, you know. Go mom. My daughter got irritated from the dentist. They brushed her teeth too hard and she has like a canker sword. And she's like, I want you to call them up and tell them.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So she likes when I advocate, I guess because I'm not usually. Right. That's great that you're not the opposite where they're not like, oh, mom, please. Please, let's just go. Yeah. Well, do you remember our grandma.

would be like she'd be like blaming things on the man. Like she'd be like the man like, the man says you've got to get out of the pool. Like the man told him. And she would like make up an imaginary man like instead of her having to be the bad guy. She'd be like the man says like you got to like pack up your clean up the house. Right. No, grandma, I think of grandma all the time when I pull that move all the time.

I fake look across the room like I'm looking into the distance and can't. catching eyes with someone that's not there. And I say, oh, okay, okay. The man said you have to eat your chicken nuggets now. And it works because they're much more afraid of the man than they are. Right. Although grandma was a little scary too. Yeah.

She probably didn't even really need the man. But at least it makes it so like there's like a group enemy instead of it's like in your mist. Right. I use that all the time. And I always think of her fondly when I do it, even though at the moment it probably felt really scary now that she's no longer with us. It feels a little bit, you know, more endearing.

Right. Yeah. It's a good parenting tip. I like it. Well, if you guys want to send in your customer service complaint or any other interpersonal question of something that's really bothering you in your everyday life, you can email us at oversharing at betches.com or you can leave us a voicemail if emailing is not your thing on the oversharing hotline at 646-363-66.

It's time for today's Overshare email of the week presented by BetterHelp. Relationships take work, especially the most important one you can have in your life, your relationship with yourself. That's where BetterHelp comes in. Check out BetterHelp and get matched with a licensed therapist today. Okay, Jordana, what are we talking about in today's Overshare? So today we're talking about self-sabotage. Do you see that a lot?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a beast. What do you like, what do you think, like what comes to mind when you, like an example of what comes to mind, like simple when you think of self-sabotage? Oh, simple. That's hard. I feel like it ends up being like this kind of self-fulfilling prophecy kind of thing where you make a prediction for yourself. So you have like glasses on that are scoping out for your particular prediction to prove that you're right. And then you find it. It's a perfect example of how. your thoughts kind of like guide your whole experience in life like you're looking for these clues that whatever you thought was going to happen is going to happen then you're only pay attention for those clues you find them then you upset yourself about it and then it changes the whole dynamic i don't know that's pretty general right i don't know if you get what i'm saying well i'm thinking like if what i think of self-suff i mean i always think about it like obviously i think most things through the lens of dating if you went on a date and you're kind of like well it's

going to go, like, why even go on the date? Because it's going to go badly. And I'm going to like, he's not going to call. You know, like, you know what I mean? Like, why go on the date? Because no one likes me. So I'm not going to like even get a second date. So what's the point? Right. So then you go on the date and you're kind of like in a mood or you're like already defensive or you're already like, you're already thinking that the person's like judging you. So then you become like more like the person that you think that you're scared of becoming. Yes. And you're tuned in. Like that's the other piece, you're very tuned in to this fear. Like, we're programmed for fear. So if you're afraid of something, you're going to be on the lookout for it the whole time. So you're not going to be

your cool regular self because you're just like very focused on, you know, looking out for this thing that you're afraid is going to happen. Do you feel like it's like your experiences that create this sort of self-sabotaging behavior? Or is it more like, like, is it because it didn't go well in the past? Yeah. I think it's a combination of like trying to, control situations by making predictions based on the past. I think that's part of it. And I think we're just wired for to be on the lookout in general. Like it's in our DNA to be like a little bit anxious and fearful to protect ourselves. So there's a couple of layers there. But yeah, I think if you've only gotten, if every time after the second date, you get the text that says,

sorry, I'm not interested, then the whole time you're going to be waiting like, wait, is he losing interest? Maybe I think he's losing interest. just to get on his phone. And so then you're in your head. So he's not getting like this fun, easy going vibe because you're in your head analyzing everything, trying to predict whether it's almost like it doesn't. If he's going to send you the,

it's not working out text, he's going to do that anyway. And he's actually more likely to do that. If you're spending the whole time, you're with him worrying about him doing that. Right. So then it's like this self-fulfilling prophecy where it's like you turn into the right version.

But then how do you like read, what advice do you? usually get to patients who are like, who keep doing that. Because like, how do you res... Like, I assume, like, the real direct advice is like, just relax and like, don't like, you know what I mean? Right. Like, obviously easier said than done. Much easier than done. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to say this probably a hundred times throughout this podcast because it's like my way of life, but mindfulness, you know, like practicing that part. we don't train the part of our brain that's able to relax.

So you can't just like, be like, relax, relax, relax, that actually makes you like probably more anxious, you know. But you have to actually practice it, like train your brain through meditation and mindfulness and like you're going to the gym for your mind. You can't just go to the gym and be like, you know, get strong, get strong, get strong. You have to like actually get on the machines and do the work. And it's the same thing with like getting yourself out of that rabbit hole. of anxiety that you're in.

Right. And I find like stopping myself in the middle of like a reaction is the hardest part because you're already like emotional. Yes. But if you can manage to do that, you can really change the way the whole interaction goes. I was talking about this actually on a U-Up episode recently. I think you listened to it. You were telling me about like my honeymoon and like I was like about to start a fight.

Right. Right. You know what I mean? And I actually feel like that's what the years of therapy have helped me do is like. Yes. And just for anyone who hasn't listened to that episode, basically like, we're on the honeymoon and like, I'm not, it's like the first few days and I'm like kind of like tired from all the traveling and I've eaten like kind of gross food. And I'm just not feeling super confident in like myself. And I don't know. I'm just not like the way like my clothes are like just not. It's almost like mostly in my head. I don't think that like anything actually like my physically, it probably looks the same. I'm sure not. I saw the pictures. You looked great. There was nothing. No problem. You know what I mean? It's like more of like a mental thing of like I feel like sluggish or I feel like kind of like bloated and tired. And then he like took these pictures of me. Like took these pictures of me and he like showed them to me on the phone. And I like deleted all of them like I hated them. Like it was just. And then I was like in a mood. Because you know what I mean? Sometimes you see like a bad picture of yourself, you just become. So what in that moment when he showed you the pictures, what was the feet? There was like a sensation in your body that you probably felt like that. that allowed you to, right. Yeah.

Like, nauseous maybe even or like a little. I was just like I, like I don't feel like I can, it's not even nauseous. It was like, for me, it became out as like irritated. And then I was sort of like, well, he didn't like tell me how to like move, like to position my body. Like in these, you know what I mean? Right. Now I'm like giving him all the responsibilities like a professional photographer.

Like, you know what I mean? Yes. And like I was like for like 15, 20 minutes, I was like kind of irritated. And then he was like, are you. you're right like you seem like annoyed and then like I was kind of like just give me like a minute I was like just give me a minute and then we were like walking kind of like quietly and then I was thinking to myself like okay like be rational like this doesn't have to do with him like don't like there's no reason to and I think that really could come from years of therapy because I've had many other instances

like that with him where I would have just been like and even like honestly maybe a month before this I would have been like, well, like, you're not, you know, you're not passionate enough or you're not complimentary enough and like, and like putting it on, you know what I mean? Right. Whose fault is it that I feel shitty right now? You're the only person in the room, so it's you. Exactly. And like thinking and like in my head, those thoughts were actually swirling in my head. I didn't say them out loud because I did, I was able to catch myself and be like, okay, is that like the, are those the facts of what's going on here?

or is this have absolutely really nothing to do with that? And that's sort of an easy way, like, place to place it. And what's actually going on is, like, you're just, like, feeling kind of bloated and, like, not the most confident version of yourself. And that's sort of, like, tainting the vibe of this thing. And I kind of, like, instead of saying, you're not doing this and you're not doing that and, like, I'm upset because of what you're doing. I was like, you know, I'm just, like, not really feeling that, like, great about myself.

And it's making me feel a little insecure. And I think, like, I'm on the honeymoon. and I feel like all like this pressure to like have it be this like particularly like sexy fun experience and I think it's like just messing with my head so like it's really it's me did you say that all or you thought that all I did say I wound up saying that all because I didn't say what I initially my gut instinct reaction which is to be like it's you that's creating right me to feel this way when that's not even like really the case like sure there's some fact to the extent that if he was like, every time he saw me, he was like,

you look unbelievable. Like every, you know what I mean? Like every, like, sure, maybe like that would have tempered it a little bit. But at the base of it, it really wasn't about that. It really was about just like me personally, either like feeling good or like feeling a little off. Right. And now you stopping and pausing and mindfully like being aware of what was going on,

it gives him the chance to respond a little bit with a little more care. taking versus if you were like, you're not doing this. He's like, you're psycho, I'm leaving. Like, now we're in a fight. Totally. Versus him being like, oh, you look great or whatever he might have said. Like, oh, like, no problem. Whatever. It's just something a little bit. Oh, yeah. Like, he's like, I think you look great. Like, I don't see what you're talking at all. Right. And then you're like, okay, like, maybe it is me. Yeah. Right. It's it. Or like, it becomes a self-fulfilling in a positive way of like, then you can like reaffirm that it wasn't, it's not this person's fault. Right.

100%. And when another person's involved and you're projecting your sort of not mindful, just rambling, nonsensical, not nonsensical, you felt how you felt, whatever it is. But when you just put it on somebody else, now you have another person's reaction to that in the room. So now it's like doubling down on, you know, just kind of self-conscious, insecure thinking. Then you're like in this like stressful, tense like moment, which then almost leads you to feel worst but now they feel terrible so it's like now you're just and I think that in long-term relationships I find that that's probably the biggest thing to worry about is like being able to separate your emotions from the other person's emotions and the idea that like just because this person's in a bad mood

doesn't mean we both have to be in a bad mood totally that's like a whole separate that should be a whole separate topic episode yeah we should have a whole episode on that yeah I think that's a big issue for sure. But yeah, I'm glad that you were able to stop yourself and like, and that's what the solution is, right? When you're on the date and you start thinking like, oh God, he took out his phone. He's not interested. This always happens to me. Like, why can't I? I'm going to be alone forever. Like just kind of stopping and being like, whoa, that was just a slew of irrational, worst case scenario thoughts that I just had. Let me take a sip of my drink and like notice the taste of it and just come back like to the reality of what's happening here.

I like that. That's such a good place to start too because it's like, let me take a step of my drink is not even like, how do I feel about like what are the facts of what's going on in this situation? It's more just like, I think that's important too, but it's almost like that's like a third level meditative, like, you know what I mean? Right. Self-awareness is to be like what is going on in my head is how it's made me feel. But like the first step to that if you're not good at that and if you don't practice that is to be like what is like the physical sensation? Yes. Yes. Because I mean, sometimes it's so tempting to like go there and while the person is talking and you're on the date, you're like analyzing your future based on like the fact that he took out his phone or whatever it is versus like, okay, I'm still here. This is not the virtual reality that I just played out for the last 10 seconds. This is me sitting across from an attractive guy that's, you know, potentially interested and let me just like come back to the moment, sit my drink, come back, look, you know, and re-engage and get out of that.

but it takes that awareness, which also takes practice. And that will help back to the whole self-fulfilling prophecy. That's all a mind game that you create in your head. So if you can practice pulling yourself out of that, you can come back to reality and actually change your reality based on that as we're talking about. Right, which is the cool part. But I guess let's get into like the meat of the email. Let's do it.

Because it is very, very long. This is actually from a listener of the U.S. podcast because, you know, we hadn't started yet so we don't have emails yet. But if you guys have an email for Dr. Naomi and I, please email us at Oversharing at Betches.com. That's Oversharing at Betches.com. Again, we will take emails on any sort of interpersonal relationship issue,

not just relationship stuff, but it can be long-term relationship stuff. It could be an issue with your sister, with your brother, with your mom, co-worker, literally anyone with the customer service rep. Like, it could be like literally anyone in your life. and we will give you both the therapist clinical take and the less professional Jordana's own personal opinions based on just my own opinion. So that's oversharing at betches.com.

And if there's a topic, a therapy adjacent topic too, that you guys want us to like do an episode on, let us know that too. You know, we're just starting this podcast and we want to make it tailored to what you guys want to hear about in this world. So, you know, if there's something you heard, a psychological term, an article you read, send it in. We'll discuss it. I'm a 27-year-old female living in Chicago. Around this time last year, I got out of a two-year relationship with someone I sincerely thought was the best person I could possibly imagine. The idea of a life without them seemed unfathomable. We frequently had conversations about marriage and he was basically living with me in an

amazing lakefront apartment on my dime. Hmm, okay, some extra info there. Yeah, I mean, to me that that adds, it's funny, like the extra info gives you, like, the real opinion on what's actually happening here. Because, like, if you could have a, that, you could have had that whole conversation paragraph without the on my dime and it would have been, like, sweet. Yes, exactly. I thought it was going to take a very loving turn, but there's some, there's some resentment. Okay. A lot of opinions in there.

I'll spare everyone the many effed up details of our breakup. but long story short, he ended things and left me absolutely heartbroken. The way he went about the breakup was truly just so traumatic and shocked me and everyone in my life. I was actively trying to leave off on amicable terms and he made sure to sabotage any chance of that. I never thought he was capable of doing the things he did and was left feeling pretty manipulated and bamboozled. Okay, so she doesn't really give any actual details about what that means, but I always find that interesting because everyone tells their breakup story as if they were like, Almost when I read one that's so clearly like that, like so clearly the other person's a monster, it makes me think like this person. You're hearing the other side of it. Yeah. Because even if there's some element of like, and this is why I feel like he did that or like this is why it might have caused this person to act in a way that was like that felt then that gives you a sense of, okay, they processed the situation from like a third party. Right. Yeah. Right. Because I never believe anyone who's like painting their breakup story as like they were this like victim of this complete. psychopath. It just also doesn't make sense that you would date that person for that long.

And it's rare. That like degree of and dating, especially with two years that you're not going to find out there's psychopath until you break up. Seems odd. I always wish that we could get the other side of that too, which would be a fun little segment we can work on. Anyway, I've spent the last year working through the aftermath with an incredible therapist, reinvesting in myself and my friendships and really throwing myself into my work. I also look and feel significantly better post-breakup than I did in the relationship. After taking the time to heal and get aligned with what I need I'm looking for in a partner, I recently decided that I'm ready to date again and download Hinge. I've never been on a dating app before as I prefer to make more organic in-person connections,

but I feel it is in my best interest to remain open-minded, showing up both in-person and online. Shortly after joining, I matched with a guy who I went on a series of four dates with over the course of a month. This was actually my first time ever going out on a date with someone I didn't know, let alone someone I hadn't previously slept with. From what I gathered, he seemed to be looking for a relationship. He frequently provided me with the reassurance in his level of interest in me through both his words and actions. But even with all the therapy, I still have a lingering fear of being hoodwinked again. Although this guy appeared to be stable, healthy, and emotionally available, I still felt the need to proceed with caution and was actively on the lookout for red flags.

Things started to get weird for me on date number three. leading up to the date, I had suspected that we would be having sex that night and was fully prepped and into the idea. However, I was somewhat skeptical that this was a normal schick for him since everything leading up had gone so smoothly and seamlessly and seemed to be very well thought out. The sex wasn't anything mind-blowing, but was better than expected. We went a couple rounds, and he came pretty quickly each time. A lot of particular details, unless it's relevant. Let's see. I feel like it's not. It will say, all right. However, immediately after there was this.

unexplainable shift in his demeanor. His vibe and tone felt totally different than what it had been leading up to the sex. I had this weird unsettling bodily reaction and made a comment implying that I didn't want to overstay my welcome, to which he said he doesn't sleep well with new people initially and would call me an Uber soon. This made the whole interaction feel pretty transactional and made me question the seriousness of our dynamic. I've never had anyone offered to call me an Uber before, but I perceive it as something men do when they want to make sure they get you out as soon as they want you to leave. I insisted on getting my own Uber home, trying to hide an indefensiveness coming from my end.

So I know there's a whole second part to this email, but what do you feel like is going on up until this point? It seems like exactly what she thinks it is. I mean, not exactly, but, you know, basically there's little hints the whole way along that she's projecting and reading into all of these little details. You know, like I'm just trying to look back and see like what in specific. But there's a couple little things in here. I have a lingering feel of being hoodwinked again. And that was, and he's providing her all this reassurance, but she's still constantly like afraid of what's going to.

Oh, this is the part where she says, I was somewhat skeptical that this was a normal schick for him. Right. Because everything had gone so smoothly and seamlessly. So somehow this is like some kind of a master plan when it's like, okay, that's just kind of a good thing. Everything went smoothly and seamlessly, but she's finding a way to twist that into

that somehow he doesn't really like her or care about her or, you know. Yeah. So that seemed a bit intense. Look, I think the part about him, you know, asking her to leave right after, I could see why that was off-putting. But I do think for men too,

and I think women have this experience where if you do really actually like somebody and you have to go to work the next day, you might be like a little anxious, you know, like, yeah, to just like fall asleep with next to someone who you sort of have like this very new relationship with. Like, I could, you know, it doesn't mean he doesn't like her, I don't think. Yeah, I think I would feel similarly about the Uber thing.

Just like, I would definitely overanalyze this to death if I were her, if I were in her shoes and dating at that time, just being like, okay, like, he's trying to get me out of here. Like, I'm in like my worst fear would be like staying. Right. Over night when the person didn't want you there. Yes. would be like the biggest nightmare.

So I can see why she's like trying to get like two steps ahead of it being like, okay, I feel weird. And also, I mean, yeah, she didn't really tell us, she told us how whatever happened with her ex like made her feel,

but she didn't say what actually happened. Right. But when she's like, has this fear of being like, she's kind of like, well, I do feel like there's something about her mentality that's like, well,

no one's going to get one over on me like again. Like I'm going to be like. Yes. Almost like getting there. First. Yep. And I think it probably changes the dynamic, although I think from his perspective up to this point, everything could have been incredible. But yeah, I could see why she was off put by him asking her to leave. But I don't think there's anything really bad here at this point in terms of like what's going on between them, although she did write, which is exactly what we're talking about. You know, his vibe and tone felt totally different. I had this weird unsettling. bodily reaction. So that's like what you described where you're like, okay, right. I just got flooded with something. That's the moment to like pause and breathe and realize like I can't start creating a beast out of this thing when it's not really that. It's just totally. I mean,

and it's so funny how like your past can color your thoughts on your current situation. Because like, if I'm reading this a different way, you could, one could read this email or like one could read these exact experiences as just got out of a really long relationship. I started dating again. I immediately had success. I've been on three dates with the first person that I've like been on three dates with. It's going well. You know what I mean?

I've had a positive experience with someone who's like seems to be showing me that there's other people out there. Right. Even if that didn't end and like and I met my new boyfriend, it's like how many people go through breakups and then they're like having so much trouble like going on a date or like getting asked on a date. when they're interested in. And that person's interested in them.

So it's just funny. Like you could read this like super positively if you wanted to. And that just to me shows like the power of the self-sabotage because it's like you're reading a positive situation or one person's positive is another person's like, here's this thing that's happening to me. Yes. And I think that's exactly what's happening here. Like this could have been great.

Look, I don't like to sleep next to new people. Blah, blah. I get that. So that's the one thing that I think. Right. She has. But I, you know, I definitely think that there's a, she has a, like a certain gray colored glasses on that's making this feel worse than what it has to be. She could have been like, this is great. Like, I mean, honestly, I'm sure if she was being honest with herself, she probably maybe wanted to go home and sleep in her own bed too. I don't know. But I don't think it's the craziest thing to, you know, just want to kind of, it's a new thing. And if it's right, you know, take it a little slower or whatever. I don't think it's the worst thing. All right. You're going to finish the email? Sure. What I should have done is told him that I sensed the shift in the dynamic following the interaction and straight up asked him what his intentions were. Instead, I told him that I was feeling a little weird since it had been a while since I was less involved with someone sexually and that at times I can struggle with intimacy. I actually feel like what she did do was the better move. Like I don't think what she should have done. She said instead I told him I was feeling a little weird since it had been a while since I was last. I was someone sexually. Like, to me, that's honest and vulnerable and like, nice. Like, no. No, no, I'm saying, I guess I don't know if that's true. She didn't really, I guess if she had this

boyfriend, yeah, maybe that is true. All right. I'll go with that. I don't know. What do you, I mean, like, what would, I think that's an interesting almost debate. It's like, would you think that, like, she should say, I felt a shift in the dynamic and I kind of upset that you wanted me to go home? Or would you say, like, because I feel like what she did was she put it in, in her terms. by saying like I don't want to overstay my welcome and I'm leaving. No, she said I told him I was feeling a little weird since it had been a while since I was involved with someone. Oh, right, right, right, right, right, right, right.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, what I think she should have done was just like what you did, which is like realize I'm having a reaction here. And if it's such an intense reaction, it's probably not even about this person and just like, relax, breathe, do a little like grounding thing, went home, slept on it. And then if she felt the need to kind of say something, she could have said. I don't think it was something that needed to be like addressed so deeply in that particular. I think it was a type of thing where she could have just waited on it a little bit, slept on it a little bit. I mean, yeah, I'm sure there was a part of her that maybe felt vulnerable because she had slept with this guy.

And then all of her fears started like coming to the surface. So you think she should have done neither of the thing she wanted to do or actually. Yeah. That's funny. I mean, I think the truth is great, and it's always good to be vulnerable. So I do think she could have said, you know, just been vulnerable in either one of those ways. Like either I'm vulnerable because I haven't slept with anybody or I'm vulnerable because I need some reassurance that this isn't a casual thing. I think either of those could have been a fine.

I don't think it really matters if they're both true, right? It sounds like they're both true, you know, whether she felt, ultimately she felt insecure and vulnerable because she hadn't had sex in a while and tied into the fact that she also probably. was concerned about whether this was going to be, you know, whether it was just sex or it was something more. But ultimately, I think this probably was a moment for her to pause, chill, realize that that intense bodily reaction that she had was probably not, was like a little bit on the, her antenna were too sensitive and like creating too much of a, you know, intense reaction. And if the next day she woke up and she still felt that way, then she could always have that conversation. It's funny.

Your tip is probably actually more practical than my opinion on this for like real actual dating experiences. Because I'm sure like you would think the therapist would be like, well, just say how you feel like in the moment. And I do think it's okay. But sometimes you have to like let it flow through a little bit. You don't want to just impulsively communicate everything that's on the top of your mind, especially because she said I had an intense bodily reaction to me. the time to communicate. That's true. To communicate is like once you're a little bit calmer, you've had a chance to kind of let that flow through, then you can communicate more clearly. Otherwise, it tends to come out like,

I forget how she said it. And you can see the situation more clearly when you're not like physically in it. I kind of agree with you now that you're saying that I take back my opinion about that, where especially in the beginning of dating before someone knows you, that's probably better. Like if it's your husband, you could be like, well, this is how. I'm feeling based on that. Even then, it is probably good to not feel like agitated when you're having the conversation. But like I can imagine right after you have sex, you're like, what are your intentions? You know, it's like a little intense, you know, like maybe the next day or two days later,

if things start to continue to feel like there's some distance, then you can have that conversation. Right. Well, I think what happens often in these situations is you're like, I feel like this very intense thing and now I need to like feel better immediately. Yes. And the only way I can think to feel better immediately is, if I say the fear and then you like make me feel better about it, which if you don't know the person, especially if you don't know the person, it's like you have no idea. It's almost like a dangerous thing to do because you're putting your how you're going to feel in their hands like immediately and like are also being extremely vulnerable. So it makes it like that much worse if you get rejected in that scenario. I'm a big advocate of like calming your body before you communicate anything at any time because what it feels like in your head and how it. comes out of your mouth when you're aggravated, agitated, tense, uncomfortable.

It's very different if she, like, it might have come out with like, I'm feeling really insecure. I don't know what your intentions are instead of like the next day. It's kind of like, I had a great time. I really enjoy spending time with you. But I have to tell you the truth. I'm feeling like a little bit insecure because, you know, when your body is calm, your whole delivery is going to be different. That's so true. That's very good advice. All right, let's finish the email, I guess. I'm no stranger to casual sex, as all of my previous relationships have started out as one-night stands, but made a point to tell him I was trying to establish more meaningful and intentional connections first moving forward.

He said that sex is better for him when there's an emotional and mental bond with someone. As I was getting just to leave, he kept excitedly telling me what an amazing ass I had and how much fun he thought I was. I was flattered, but also felt a little objectified by the whole experience. This made me uncomfortable and had me in my head questioning everything. I think he could sense that and said, look, I'm going to lay all my cards on the table here. I'll be out of town until next Sunday, but I'd really like to see you when I get back.

He texted me throughout the week stating that he'd enjoyed getting to know me and was looking forward to our next meetup, quote unquote. I couldn't tell if the exchange in language from dates to meetups and hangouts was because we had crossed that sexual line or if it was because he was intentionally trying to convey that this would be strictly casual moving forward. He checked him while on vacation, sending me some photos and once again asking if I wanted to quote unquote meet up when he got back. He put the ball in my court asking what I wanted to do.

I gave him three options. One of which included drinks and takeout at my place as both an opportunity to allow us to get to know each other in a more laid back manner, but was also intended to test him with the bait of casual sex. He took the bait. Okay. So here we are. Right. It's like a very, I mean, like she seems like the manipulative one now. Right. Right. Do you know what I mean? It's very true. And again, that's like that defensiveness fear thing coming out. It's creating a sort of an unhealthy dynamic at the onset. Right. He took the bait. Like I offered him. It's also like she said she was doubt. He said, someone gives me three options. I assume they're like equally cool with all three options. Right. I'm going to take the one that's best for me, which, you know, I wouldn't like. Yeah, I wouldn't go about that. That's a dangerous game.

Right, totally. The evening was very cuply, good conversation and cuddling, but every time he went in for a kiss, it didn't feel like the timing was right and it felt rushed, which made me feel more awkward than I was already feeling. It's probably worth it to note that since I've been feeling insecure in our dynamic, I ended up having a case of the sorries all night. I guess that's when you just keep saying sorry for everything.

I haven't heard that expression, but it's a thing. At that point, I suggested we move to the bedroom. again, the sex was quick with little effort on his part, followed by more cuddling, handholding, and about an hour of pillow talk. He kept saying things like how much he loved the way I smell, loved how soft I am, and loved my long hair. He also made a point to let me know that he was having a great time. I asked him if he wanted to have sex again, to which he declined. He said it had nothing to do with me and that he had been yelled at for a mistake at work earlier that day. I shared that I had been feeling the stress of work as well. In response, he really didn't say

much, but gave me a long, hard kiss and abruptly said, I'm going to go. As he left, he said it was nice talking to someone about these things and was generally sweet. He texted me the next day to check in on the outcome of my review, which I had let him know had been rescheduled to the following Tuesday, and we exchanged a few jokes. This is very, very detailed, which I like, but it really is painting a good picture of what's going on here. There's more. I didn't hear from him after that, so I decided to check in. He didn't respond that night, but got back to me very early the next morning, letting me know he wasn't feeling the spark and thought we should stop seeing each other. I was so appreciative of his honesty and we ended things on a respectful note. However, this leaves me

wondering, did my trepidation and anxieties bite me in the ass and get in the way of what maybe could have been a healthy relationship or was my gut trying to warn me against a wolf and sheep's clothing? I took the loss and I'm trying to keep my head held high, but I've also been beating myself up a little bit. I'm trying to take his word of face value and respect that it takes the connection on both ends to work and that this is likely just wasn't the match. Did I ruin a potentially good thing with someone healthy because I was too in my head and behaving awkwardly or avoidantly? Give it to me straight. Do you guys think this was an act of self-sabotage or did I unknowingly spare myself from another snake in the grass? Or was there truly no chemistry on either end?

sincerely hell bent on having hindsight. It's funny, she has like a bunch of different ways for describing like a man who's going to like pull one over on you. She had like three different analogies, like the wolf and sheep's clothing, a snake in the grass. Like, it's clearly like to me that's almost more telling like the term she's using to describe like just a regular, just like a regular guy. Everything to me points like he's just like a regular guy. No, I'm glad that this woman is looking for some insight.

If I had to, I mean, we're obviously going to talk about it more deeply, but I definitely, if the question is, do you think this was an act of self-sabotage? I think the answer is yes. You think yes or no question. Yes. I'm going to go with yes. My thought on it was like not necessarily no, but more like, again, not so much self-sabotage, but like clearly she's in a place where maybe she's not ready to fully. because I feel like to call it self-sabotage and the way that she calls it that makes it seem like

it's like this hugely negative experience that she like ruined and it could have been like her boyfriend and she like no guilt no shame right where I'm kind of thinking like okay this is your first dating experience after your two year relationship like you're just getting back in the game if you look at it like I'm just getting back in the game and like I'm like having fun and like

this one didn't really work out maybe like we weren't fully the match because like we just kind of like weren't vibing with each other. But cool first experience, not like super traumatic. It doesn't sound like it was like fine. Especially she seems okay with like the casual sex part. Like she didn't feel like super uncomfortable about that.

Yeah. And like I'll try again next time. But I do think that to your point it's like there are things to be learned here. Yes. And like that you can bring into your next one. But I think to for her to like label it as like I sabotaged this thing. It's like almost building it into like it was maybe it probably would have been like a fine thing either way. And maybe it could have lasted like an extra month. But I kind of feel like if it was

truly like the exact match for her, what she did wouldn't have been like that big of a deal. I agree. I don't think there's any reason for her to feel badly. I actually really hope she's listening because I think it's great that you're looking into this and you're self-aware enough to try to realize that this isn't like a travesty. You shouldn't feel guilty. But this is actually a really wonderful learning experience to kind of be able to get out of, you know, try to just get out of your head. It's not, and a lot of people feel like if you go to therapy and you understand what your issues are, then you can prevent them from affecting you. And I think that's a little bit, there's one step. It's like, okay, I understand that I was traumatized by this breakup and you can

process the feelings and figure out how it felt and why and, you know, dig in and spin it all around. But then ultimately you have to put into practice not allowing that to seep into your new relationships. And that is like practice that you have to do. So I'm glad that she's got the awareness. But now she has to figure out how to kind of be more in the moment versus what she was doing. It's like I think I could tell what happened here. When she says like every time he tried to kiss her, she didn't feel like the timing was right, which I think was code for like it felt like all he wanted was sex. Meanwhile, you know, that was a fun dynamic and she kind of probably just kept making it like a little awkward because she was afraid that all he wanted was sex when either that might have been the time to kind of have the conversation.

Right. The original conversation or that, you know, could have been a time to just be like, okay, we're just kissing here. Like, let's just enjoy this and like enjoy the kissing. And maybe if he goes for sex, then I can stop and have this conversation that I feel vulnerable. or whatever that is, that might be a better time to do it. But I could tell that she was probably just, he had a great time.

He seemed really into it until, I mean, he was giving all these compliments and calling her while he was on vacation and saying, I'm going to lay all my cards on the table. I want to see you again. Like all this stuff sounds like he was really into it

until the follow up when she was like so in her head about whether all he wanted was sex. Maybe that might have been the time to have that conversation. Yeah, I agree. I would definitely like tweak some action. going forward. I definitely wouldn't offer a date that you don't want to be on as an option,

as a test, because who's the one who suffers there? It's like you. Totally. Yep. And that's exactly what happened. Yeah. And if you want to make the relationship less sexual or give yourself time to like feel comfortable being more intimate, be like, let's go to dinner. Like, let's go to the movies. Let's, you know. And like, I think a lot of people also think you can't go back. Like if you had sex, like now we have to have sex every time. It's like, that's not a rule. And, and, and, and, I think, And that's a good way. If you really want to test someone, offer them only options of things that you feel comfortable doing

and see if they're happy to come, like, if they're interested in things that are not just sex by agreeing to do what you want to do. Yes, 100%. I think people think, like, an ideal relationship is someone who, like,

already knows what you want and, like, automatically does it because that's their first choice. But I actually think, like, a better relationship is someone who's doing what they, don't necessarily want to do because it's your choice. Because they, you know what I mean? It's easy to do what you want to do.

What shows that you care is to do what someone else wants to do because it means something to them. And how they handle your communication of that. You know, like if she was able on that second meetup or whatever to say, hey, I'm feeling all the things that she wanted to say the first that she said or didn't, you know, all those things. If he's like, oh, God, this is getting too intense. Then it's like, okay, that's not the person.

But if he's like, okay, no problem, I don't want to make you uncomfortable. Let's go right now. Let's go out. We'll go to a movie. We'll go to, you know, whatever. Totally. That's the real test. Right.

That's also, you know what I mean? Like, I think that that mentality that she has of like, this is my theory. I'm going to test it out by like seeing if he takes the bait. Yeah, that wasn't, you know, no regrets. But going forward, I would. Yeah. You can tweak some things. But I think overall, like she could have written this email as a totally positive thing

if you were like looking to be in that mode too. Like to me, this is like great. You had a great first dating experience after a relationship that sounds kind of bad. And I would also like, I would revisit that first relationship too. Maybe like while you're dating or before you fully start dating because to me, I don't think she's processed that in like a truly subjective way. It sounds like he's the bad guy. I got screwed over and that's the conclusion of that.

Right. Like if I went on a date and someone was talking about their ex like that, I would kind of be like, it sounds like you have some like things to work through. Or you're not, you haven't completely processed this in a completely like unattached way. Right. I don't know. I could see that too, which is also leaving her feeling I could be dating a psychopath at any moment. And if I didn't know it after two years, how am I supposed to know it after three dates? Right. It's a scary position to be in. Totally. And that even if you get past the board, even if you're, even if. If someone becomes your boyfriend, you can't, I think people are, and I was under this impression that like all of those preconceived notions about how people are, like once you get the person, they don't matter. It's like, no, that's almost like when they start to matter because that's

when that will come out in your relationship. That doesn't just like go away once you get the exclusivity badge or something. Exactly. And look, there are people, I mean, there is such a thing as like a psychopath and there are people that are like master manipulators and like really evil. Like the, what's that series that has the guy that's just like a total dear, dear John? Oh, dear John, yeah. So that's a thing. I guess that exists, but it's so rare. Like usually there's, you know, there's going to be a part of the processing of the breakup

that is like you have to get through that defensiveness of like making him the devil so that you can feel better about how it ended. Yeah. And to have that constant paranoia is really just like. That's taking away more of your life than actually dating someone like that in some ways. Yeah, for sure. You know what I mean? It's almost like if you take the risk of, okay, this person might wrong me and they wrong you,

it's usually not as bad as the constant everyday fear or paranoia that someone is about to wrong you. Like the actual thing, would you be fine. And you constantly thinking about it, first of all, isn't really going to, it's not going to make it feel any better when it happens. It's still going to be awful. It's just going to be low level awful for the pre-period and then really awful for when it happens versus like fine and then really awful. I think we help this person. I think so too. I hope she was listening because I really, I do think this was probably helpful for her.

Agreed. That's it for today's overshare presented by BetterHelp. BetterHelp online therapy wants to remind you that you matter just as much as everyone else does. And therapy is a great way to make sure you show up for yourself. BetterHelp is customized online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with your therapist. so you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. Give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp online therapy. Oversharing listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash overshare.

That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P dot com slash overshare. Okay, so now we're going to get into our new section. It's called The Betchesist. Every week we tackle an ethical question, but this week's question again is taken directly from the New York Times and this column. So it's not ours because, again, we don't have any submissions yet. because we just started our show. But feel free to submit your own betchesist questions

to oversharing at betches.com. And again, that's like any question where you're like, am I ethically right or is like this person ethically right? It can range from like a recycling question to a, an issue with your parents, like any sort of, I constantly think like am I ethically doing the right thing or does this not really matter?

So I think there's so many of those that come up. I don't know why my brain was immediately wired to like recycling. But, oh, it's important. I think that's a big one. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you're in a couple or one person's into it, like, I'm kind of into it. My husband's like, just doesn't really care.

Sometimes I'm like, er, just put it in the recycling. And people have very strong opinions about that. But yeah, this one's not recycling adjacent. But again, if you guys have any sort of ethical question, we'll tell you who's right. As that, well, we're morally superior. We'll tell you who's right. Okay. So here's the question.

My roommates have been listening to my therapy sessions. Is that okay? My therapist is no longer seeing patients in person, so I've been attending therapy sessions at home in my room. Recently, one of my roommates told me that she had been listening to my sessions for weeks and heard me mention her name and the name of our other roommate. Now, both roommates have told me I will not be allowed to have any sessions in the apartment anymore.

They asked me to do them in a coffee shop or the public library, which is still closed in my city because of COVID. I could get a white noise machine, but at this point, I'm scared that they hear a part of my session and gang up on me again. Is this an invasion of privacy? Was it wrong for them to not disclose to me weeks earlier that they had been listening in? My sessions always begin with my therapist asking if I had any thoughts of self-harm or suicidal urges in the past week. How could a person not tell me she heard my private thoughts and held them against me? Oof, I think that's totally the worst. If she heard it, very first time she heard it, she should have come in and said,

hey, I can hear what you're talking about in therapy. You might want to get a white noise machine or and or I would have just put on some headphones. But I do think it's best to just let her know. I can hear you. So you got to do something about that. To wait weeks is like pretty messed up to me. That sounds like eavesdropping actually more than just like accidental. And I heard this thing and that thing.

And also like why would the friend be like you've got to leave? It's like why would it bother them to that extent that it should have been like her idea to be like, I'm going to leave now because there's a chance, right? Totally. Totally. Well, it sounds like there was probably a good amount of weeks of shit talking between the two other roommates that has brewed up into a whole resentment. So that's what that sounds like this is.

But look, it's a tough situation because I do mostly virtual therapy, all virtual therapy right now. And it's hard sometimes for people to find a space that is private. And a lot of times the people that you want to talk about are the people that you're living with or the people that you have issues with. So it is a tough spot, but it's obviously extremely important to get proud. White noise machines are great. They work. So that seems like a simple solution. Yeah. I especially in COVID was like seeing my therapist virtually. And Mike was like always in the room. And I was like very paranoid that he would be able to like, because that's sort of defeat to hear anything. Not because like, oh, I'm talking so much shit about him, which I mean, like, like, like occasionally, yeah, obviously, like, complain. But more just like, these are like the best thing about therapy is it's like this completely safe space to like say whatever you want in a completely private manner. So if someone hears it, that definitely would make me think about, double think about what I was

going to say, which defeats the entire purpose of therapy in my opinion. 100%. You have to have privacy. And I mean, Mike does not seem like he seems like the type of guy that would come right to you, be like, I could hear what you're saying in therapy. Like you might want to move to another room. or whatever, you know. Right.

Yeah, no, he was very good about that. He would like specifically stay. Like, he would do his part to like stay on the other side. Right. Or he would put on headphones and like listen to music while I was in the other room. Yeah. You have to make arrangements. I mean, a lot of people, if this sounds like this person lives in the city,

a lot of people go their car, just sit in their car. That's an option. It's like a super, it's like a little bubble. I actually think it's a great spot for people to do therapy if they don't have privacy. but yeah, it was not nice that they listened for weeks before saying anything. Yeah, I would almost like move out. I mean, that sounds very harsh, but it's kind of like, I think people underestimate how like your living situation affects such a big part of your life.

Like now, not only do you know you're living with people you can't fully trust, but also like there's this tension because they've already heard this thing. Like if it were me, I'd be like, I would feel more comfortable just not living in this because it's also like where you live like you come home to. I understand like and a lot of people are like maybe I can't afford to leave or like there's a thing like something around that. Yeah, we should do something on roommates too because that is really a whole thing. Nothing makes you hate someone more than living with them.

But like and then the fact, then once you're living with someone and you have a lease for a year and there's like this resentment and you come home and there's this icy thing and like, you know, it just sounds really awful. That's supposed to be your safe space. Honestly, like I usually think, and I can't speak for anyone's financial situation, it's usually worth like, that's the kind of situation where it's like, it might be worth like paying a little bit premium to like have every day not be like tense.

That really weighs on your mental health, I would imagine. And look, again, so like they're in this situation. How do they deal with it? I mean, I think this is a great spot to communicate where she could say, like, I really feel like my privacy was invaded. I wasn't aware that you could hear me. And so, like, I do, you know, I'm doing therapy here in the apartment. It's my apartment.

This is where I want to do therapy. I'm going to get a white noise machine. But let's, I don't know if they're friends or they're literally just roommates. But I think this needs to be communicated. Otherwise, it's going to just feel really uncomfortable. You know, they need to have like a more open communication versus like, you can't do therapy here anymore. Or like, like, I felt really like kind of like betrayed or like my, you know, like,

violated that you were like listening to my own, like, very personal conversation. Like it actually really hurt my feelings that you would like do that. And I feel like it's like I feel as tough for me to trust anything. I don't know. Yeah. Privacy is an interesting issue. It's like a human right in some respects. But it's also they're probably like, I don't know.

She doesn't get into what was said between her and the, you know, like what she was saying about the roommates. So that's like a whole separate issue. If she was saying something really terrible about them and that's like. Or even she's saying like her therapist asking her about like her. own like self-harm or something like that like that's such a personal thing if you knew someone was listening you might answer completely differently than if you didn't and I think that's really totally and that's like even unsafe at that point and I wouldn't even use that for pity but I would use that as you'd be like I have actually some serious mental health issues that like are very like sensitive

to me and like I'm trying my best to recover from them and like it's like really upsetting to me in that like I think when you then the person can like feel some empathy for you right maybe They didn't catch that. I don't know if you caught this part when you were listening. Right. Right. Totally. When you were completely violating my privacy, but in case you missed it.

Right. No, it's true. You know, they need to, I think there is some further conversation that needs to be had here so that they can, you know, I think they're trying to jump in and solve this with like an action. Like the solution to all of this tension that we've had for the last four weeks is that you can't do therapy here anymore. Like they're just trying to solve it with like a quick fix. Like that's clearly not the solution. I mean, yes, they can't be listening to her therapy, but like there's a lot more to it than just you have to leave during your therapy sessions.

Sounds like they were trying to take back the control of the situation somehow. But whatever it is, I think that they definitely, she needs to let them know how violated she feels. And yes, you have a right to feel violated. I agree. Let's play game. Can't play game? All right, let's do it. Let's play a round of triggered.

In this game, we're taking your emails about feeling insulted or wronged and telling you just how offended you should be. I'm going to score the grievance on a scale of 1 to 10, telling us just how offended I think you deserve to be. As the end, I'll be all about what's offensive and what's not. Do you want to read the first one? Here's a great triggered situation my friends and I were debating. How offended should you be if someone tells you're a bad kisser?

I'm of the opinion that it's absolutely horrifying, but my friends think it'd be no big deal. For the record, none of us have ever explicitly been told we're bad kissers. I just know I'd be crushed if I ever heard that. Thanks so much loving the show. All right. I would say that would probably be like a seven or an eight to me. That's harsh.

It's harsh. But you know what? So not to over intellectualize, but like maybe it comes down to that mindfulness thing. Like if you're just in the moment and you're just kissing the person, however feels good to you and like doing what you think is erotic or you know sensual right and the other person doesn't like it then it kind of comes just back to like we're not a match but if you're like trying hard to be this kisser that the other person enjoys right that might be where it backfire I think it would be more almost just like oh now I feel like it's almost like if I heard that the first

time I kissed anyone I'd be like okay I can like think about now then if I heard this at 32 I'd be like I've spent years doing this thing and I assumed everyone likes and they've all hated it. Like, do you know what I mean? That would be almost the annoying part for me. Right. That people might have been thinking this the whole time. Right. Almost more so than just the person in front of me not liking.

But it could just be like the person not matching to your kissing style. Yes. Totally. I mean, I think most of us have probably had that experience of not enjoying a kiss with somebody. But maybe there's another. you know, another set of lips that are a better lid for that pot or whatever it is and it's just not totally for you. So I think you can, you know, I would take this and learn from it as most triggered situations and say, if he didn't enjoy kissing you, then either you

weren't doing what came naturally to you. Like maybe you were trying to please. And so it was coming off and feeling forced or unnatural. But if you were doing what you enjoyed and he didn't enjoy it, then it's not for you. Maybe it was them. But yeah, I would, I would, the gut reaction would be ouch on this one. I agree. Right. Almost, again, as a whole, like if someone was like, oh, you pronounce, like,

say you said a word all the time and they were like, oh, by the way, you've been saying that name wrong the whole time. Like, oh, I've had so many conversations. Right. Right. Never. It does. You flashed to like all the kisses that you've had and all the guys that you've, you know,

turned off. Yeah. Totally. But I think this is a lot more subjective than something like that. like that. So I agree. Some people probably were into it. Okay. How offended should I be that my co-worker said I'm, quote, smarter than I thought you were. Context. I'd been working at a new job for two months. And after meeting with someone, I somewhat knew. She told me that when I first started, she got the impression I wasn't qualified. But that after meeting with me, she concluded that I was

smarter than she expected. I was like, excuse me, bitch, what? Anyway, let me know what you think? All right. What do you give this? I give this like a four. What do you think? I would kind of agree with that. I mean, I think that, you know, one, you could cut, you know. It could be seen as kind of flattering.

Like, oh, I'm like super pretty. So they didn't think that I was smart. Right. You know, I'm really fun. I'm really fun. So they just didn't assume those decorrelated with smart. I think you could interpret it like that. Right.

Like maybe there were some other qualities that they first noticed. And this is another one that's like, you can't possibly. be beautiful and funny and smart, but here you are. Yeah. I don't know if she meant it like that, but you could, again, you can choose to perceive it that way. Yeah, you can choose to perceive it that way. Your perception is your reality. Exactly.

And only you know yourself. But I also think like as someone who doesn't give like the best first impression, I like to say, give a great like fourth or fifth impression. Like I'm much better once you know me than I think I can come off like unfriendly or standoffish or aloof if you don't know me. True. I think you can work on that too. extent, but part of me is kind of like, okay, that's just like, I'm like, that's just the kind of like,

I'm a person who you might like even more than someone who you like more than me on the first time. You might like me even more on the fifth. Yeah. I think there's also like along with that comes like a lack of phoniness, you know, like you're just kind of your real self and maybe it's not the most like peppy and, you know, you're not, you're not like saying all the things that someone wants to hear necessarily the first time they meet you. But then you know, you get what you get. And as you get to know you, you know that like whatever you're going to say is going to be the real deal. So I'll take that. I'll give it. Oh, thank you. Yeah. And you know what I'm saying? Like part of me sometimes wishes I were the other way, but then it's kind of like everything is a tradeoff. So.

Right. I hope you are smarter than we thought you were. Do you want to do the last one? This isn't so much a triggered situation as it is a hypothetical. If for some reason you're on a date and the person you were with thought you smelled bad, which of the following two options would you choose? A, they politely inform you that your odor is a bit off, but they still want to see you again. Or B, they don't say a word, but then ghost you without any explanation. Hmm. I guess the first where like they tell me that my odor's bit off, although that would be a little bit traumatic.

That would really hurt, but I agree. But they want to see me again. It's almost like kinder. It's like someone telling you your fly is. down. You're like, now I feel uncomfortable, but it's fixable. There's something I can do about it. And now I'm not walking around thinking I'm one way. Like, to me, delusion is the, is the worst thing that can happen to me. Like, if I'm living in a delusional stance, so much more than I'd rather, and I think that goes to what we were just talking about of the first impressions. Yeah, I agree with that.

And I think the truth is, speaking of the dating situation, and you guys might talk about this on you up. But if somebody had a little bit of an off odor, right, you're going to be married to somebody. They're not going to smell amazing all the time, right? Somebody, you didn't get a chance to shower or you, you know, ran out of deodorant or what. So a lot of people would just literally never see someone again because they didn't smell

100% great on the first date. And like, that's it. I'm out. But maybe that was your person. And they just happened to like have some extenuating. circumstance and if you don't address it, then you've just lost a chance in spending time with someone that might be great. So, agree.

Especially for things that are like easily fixable. I think if it's like a character trait, like just don't see them again. Like I found you to be obnoxious. Like I don't think you need to. Just so you know you were a little obnoxious, but I'd like to see you again. Right. Or you have horrible teeth or like you know, I don't like your face. You know, like those are not things that you can say and then kind of recover from.

But odor, everyone has a little odor every now and then. And, you know, it would be very upsetting to hear. But if they're saying they want to see you again, then that's soft and simple. Right. Especially if they said it in like a lighthearted, joky way, not liking it in like, just so you know, like, do not smell good at all. Like in Slyther, they were like, I don't know how you would bring it, make it a joke. I don't know how you would do that either, but do you want, would you like a piece of gum or something? Do you want some, I happen to have an extra deodorant, would you like one?

Right. Right. So yeah, better than ending, especially if there was some other kind of connection, but I could see a lot of people just, especially with apps and how many options you have that if somebody didn't smell 100%, then just ending the whole thing based on that, which would be a shame. I agree. Communicate. Communicate, communicate, communicate, even at the onset. It's the moral of the story. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Well, I think we solved a lot of, of interpersonal conflicts. What do you think? Yeah, I definitely think, you know, I think we helped write in. Tell us, you know, give us your questions. I still really want to hear from the customer service, Betch, who's listening to all this. I'm very curious what's going on. So please write to us. Let us know your perspective. Or leave us a voicemail. Whatever feels good for you. And guys, if you were enjoying this podcast, we would love it if you left us a five-star review on Apple

podcasts, go to the app, write the review, and write what you love about the show. And that'll be really helpful for us as a newer podcast. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales-Picot, and Rebecca Salis McHac. Editing by Missileo Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches. Thank you.