Oversharing - I Got Dumped Via Text, Can I Demand A Phone Call?

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

The demands of puppy ownership are weighing on Jordana and Dr. Naomi offers her some “advice” on ways to not only work with the new dog but to work on her feelings around it all. But the work this week begins when one listener opens up about a recent breakup she endured via text after a seemingly good few months together. Our Overshare this week comes from a Betch who is anticipating the loss of her job after a very eerie letter was delivered to her at work and Jordana and Dr. Naomi offer up empathy and tactile tools for getting through the anxiety of it all. The Betchicist of the week presents the question if “is it okay to tell someone that you won't refer them for a job?” after a listener is approached by a former employee they know won't be the right fit for a role at their new company. And the episode closes out with some Triggered submissions from two listeners who feel like their family members could have chosen different words for their comments. Subscribe to Oversharing on YouTube! ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@EverythingsFineBetches⁠  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. I was going to ask how is your weekend, but you were just saying you've had an annoying weekend

or you had something kind of triggering happened to you. Yes. Oh, if we would have recorded this on the day of, I would have went on and on and on. But I realize it's a little personal. It's like not something I necessarily want to put out there. Basically, I'll give the quickest high level kind of like recap is that I had a major issue with another therapist. Your therapist? That is like personal in my family, like to someone.

in my inner circle. And I literally feel it coming back in this moment as we, as I'm just even talking about talking about it. So I'm thinking that maybe I will talk about it on our next benefits episode. Okay. Well, selfishly, I want to hear immediately, but we can get to the rest of the episode. And you guys can hear that this will be out though. The subscriber episode will be out on Thursday, May 8th. So you'll hear all about it then. And I hope everything's okay. Yeah.

It's just really weird to have as a therapist, to have like such a strong reaction to another therapist. Because like I usually can see, you know, I'm in it. I get the difficulties of running a practice and being, you know, a mental health provider. But on this one. And you usually do not get triggered. I will say. You're usually pretty calm, cool and collected. You know what? This was also the other moral of the story is that we were driving. It was my mother-in-law's birthday and we were on our way out to dinner and she was sitting in the front seat and I'm sitting in the back. And I was just like, oh, let me just check my email, which was not necessary. I didn't need to check my email in that moment, like on the way to dinner.

Yeah, a minute. Why not? Because of this. Because then I got an email. from this person that just like was so triggering in that moment. And here I am like out for a nice dinner with a car full of people just like breathing, staring out the window like deep breaths. And Jeff is so in tune with me that he kept like looking at me through the rear view mirror. Like, are you okay? Are you okay? Because he knows like I don't usually get that way.

So it's a good level. lesson that like you never know what kind of email you're going to get. So like there's no need to be checking it randomly when you're on the way to dinner. Or anything. I mean, social media does that to me all the time, but I'll see something and I'll just be like irritated by it. Right. And I check it constantly. And there's just like no reason to do that besides just like a reflex. Yes. It's just like, oh, I'm bored. I'm sitting back here. But there could be information coming in. I guess it's fine. You breathe. You move through it. But this one definitely took. me a minute. It really like hit me very personally. I don't know. I'll talk more about it. But it was also

that that lesson of like, all right, maybe I could just look out the window or engage in some friendly car conversation and not need to be checking my email and aggravating. But yeah. Wait till Monday and talk shit with your sister. Oh gosh. I can't, I really can't wait to talk about this with you and get kind of your take on it only if you completely agree. with me. I'm sure I will. I'm sure I will. Usually I'm not the one getting, you're not the one getting more mad at stuff than I would be. Yeah, we'll get into it, but it's a little, it's a little close to home. It's a little personal. So I would rather talk about it on a smaller scale. But yeah, it was the most triggered I've been. It was more triggering than the tuna on the plane. Wow. Okay.

Yeah. I'm excited, but I am anxiously awaiting hearing it. Yes. And, yeah, Yeah, my weekend was good. I actually would like an intention from you. Sure. Now that I've thrown everything at the tick problem, you know, this is my first time at Ronnie. It's the first time I'm taking care of something that's not me on an ongoing basis. That's not like babysitting or something like that.

I do get my moments of a lot of frustration, especially when he's like, he does. He's very, very cute. I sent you a bunch of pictures. So that's his saving grace. Can I show for the YouTube? Yeah, if you're watching on YouTube, I mean, he's... How cute is that?

He's a very cute, handsome boy. Oh, my gosh. That's, well, that's why he's still in this house. But he gets into these, like, frenzies where he just starts, like, biting my toe, like, skin, like my toes and my skin and my socks and he won't let go. And I guess maybe this is a shed your shame moment. You yelled at him? I kind of yelled at him, but more like he's, like, he's like, he's like, he's, like,

like grabbing onto my sock and he won't let go. And then so I'm like picking my foot up higher and higher and higher. And then he like falls back because I'm like trying to get him off my shot. And he like, it feels like I kicked him but I didn't kick. Like, do what I mean? You just lifted him off the ground kind of. Right. And I mean, like I felt bad, but I was also like, all right.

Like get off. Like I mean, if you're gone. If you could, if you let go, this wouldn't happen. Yes. But then I'm like, do you know what I mean? I feel like everything you see about puppies. is like everything that they're doing wrong is your fault. So that's basically like all the videos, all the like threads that I read are just basically

like whatever behavior you don't want doing is like your fault because like you're the one who's supposed to train him. Totally. And like he's just being who he is. It's the same thing with parenting. Like sometimes Jeff will complain about the kids. I'm like stop complaining because whatever you're complaining about is our fault. We did this.

But then you're kind of like then that just makes you feel like more. You feel like annoyed about the behavior. and then you feel like guilty and ashamed that like you're the one that it's that you can't even blame him. I'm like, I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to feel, how I'm allowed to feel because I'm feeling very irritated. Yes. And like, this thing last night where he was like, I tried everything. He was like biting my feet so I put him in the pen. And then he gets in the pen and he goes to his water bowl and he starts like splashing the water all over the pen.

He just like puts his paw. He's like making his own like paddle poles. So everything's like soaking wet. So I take him out of the pen and then he goes over to like the fireplaces and starts trying to eat the like ash inside of it. And like I haven't gotten the cover yet. So then I'm just kind of like, I don't really know what to what the like solution is here. And he's I've like had it. Yes.

Yes. I will validate all of it. You're allowed to have all of the feelings of irritation. It is really irritated. because let's say you're trying to work. Like in my mind, I'm like, he probably wants to play. He wants some exercise. But like, I took him out.

Yeah. You can't always do that every second. Like, you have to work. You have to do things. Maybe you want to, whatever it is that you want to do. I totally validate how irritating that is where you're like, nothing that I'm doing is making this stop. He's just like constantly like on a tear messes and nibbling.

And yeah. The chewing is bad. Lucky our dog, she actually chews like the drywall. So we have to leave her. She hasn't gotten there yet. She's almost two years old. And whenever we leave, we leave her in the crate because she will actually chew holes in the wall. So yeah, they have their little isms.

And I think as long as you can just try the thing that I used ever since I had small kids was like, it's just an unpleasant, whatever, sound, sensation, you know, it's just, like, even the water on the bottom of the pen, okay. It's unpleasant. The biting, I think, is where it's hard to do that. It's hard to be like, it's all right. It's like my skin is being like ripped into. Like you're like biting my wrist. You're biting.

And if you try the thing where you're like, okay, I'm going to give him an appropriate chewing toy. He chooses not to do that. Yeah, I know that that's the thing. Right. Yeah, that's the thing. Like all the advice is like do that stuff. And it's like he doesn't want that. He wants the thing that he's not supposed to.

He's not trying to behave. He's like trying to. Yeah, probably get your attention. Yeah. Like I got him like a little toy shoe. So he would stop eating my shoe. He used that for like 30 seconds. And he's like, no, I want the one that's like going to annoy you.

I want the one that like you don't want me to eat. It's not like I'm doing this because I really love eating. shoes. It's like I wanted. I think it's probably a little like attention seeking, but I will tell you what. Some people fall into the trap of thinking, oh, my dog is attention seeking. I'll get another dog to keep my first dog company. Don't do it. Don't do that. Do not do that. It doesn't even help. They still want your attention. Right. Well, right now he's sleeping in the corner of my office being a little angel. So maybe he'll just stay like that. He probably needs more exercise.

I mean, I'm not trying to give you advice because it's the most annoying thing ever. Bring him outside to run his huge backyard. He's running around all the time. I can't really walk him yet because he doesn't have all his shots. Right. It's almost like then I'm thinking like I'm almost giving him too much attention. And that's what Mike says. Mike's like if you like ignore him a little bit more, he'll go to sleep.

Like he's just tired. He needs to go to sleep more. But you like keep like engaging with him so he's not. You need to just ignore him. Yes, I think if you're kind of like, if he's biting you, you give him the other, put him in the pen with the appropriate chewing toy and like, yeah, at that point, then you can ignore because he's not going to be biting your actual skin off. But then he's so sad. He's like cries. There you go. There you go.

So that's it. I think the issue is that you probably want to be with him, but you want to be with him in the way that you want to be with him. Right. Which is like, I want to be with you when you're quietly snuggling and being cute. Yeah. But when he's not, then you just have to handle a little separation, put him in there, maybe take the water bowl out temporarily or whatever and let him. It's so hard to hear them cry. I know.

And then he looks at you and he's like, oh my God, those eyes. Come on. Just let me out. He has the definition of puppy dog eyes. And I'll say like, I'm going to let you out, but you got to be a good boy. And Mike's like, why are you doing this? He doesn't understand English. And I like, then I'll do it.

And then he, like, is not, you know, as soon as he gets out, he's like fighting again. Like he's not, like, I'm trying to reason with someone that's not reasonable. Yeah, well, I think he's smart because he's like manipulating you a little bit. He's doing a good job. I think that's what I'm saying. Like, I always say this. Like, I feel like he's training me. Yeah, I think Mike knows what he's talking about.

I would just put him, it's like with a baby, put them in a safe place where you know they're not going to hurt themselves. And as long as they're safe and clean and fed and he's gone to the bathroom, you can just ignore for a little while. Right. I guess it's like dealing, and this is kind of like anything else, even if you're dealing with adults,

it's like breathing through someone not liking you or not having what they want from you. Yes, yes. Which is almost more difficult for you than for them. Like, I want things all the time that people don't give me. Yes. But like it's almost harder to feel,

to know that you're not doing what someone else wants. Yeah. some other, you know, what he wants. Right. Do you have a thought of like maybe he won't attach to me or maybe he won't love me or like maybe he'll think I'm mean or? Yeah, I think I just don't want him to be sad and I don't want him to feel like he can't depend on me for all his needs. Is he like going to be like securely attached to me? Is he going to feel like I don't care about him? Right. I think it's like all of that. Yeah, he's got to learn to self-soothe with his appropriate chew toy and his pen when you're, you know, doing what you've got to do.

Right. I really validate it is very frustrating when you, like, you lose your temper. I remember once, like, one of my kids, like, hauled off and, like, smacked me right in the face. And I was like, you have, like, when they were, you know, little and they just got pissed and, like, smacked me right in the face. I'm like, the reaction, like, I didn't, but I could see how you want to, like, shove them back, you know. Well, that's how you would do it with anyone else who was like, coming at you, you'd be like, get off me. Like, I felt that moment where I was about to like snuff her back in the face.

I didn't, but it's like a like an automatic self-defense reaction. Right. Like if something is biting you, your kind of reaction is to like kick it away from you. Yeah. Yeah. That's a phase. It's all, it'll be a phase. It's going to get better.

I mean, it's so hard. Again, like that like you say this all the time. Like he's so cute. that I just like, you know, when he calms down, we have our moment. I'll tell Mike, I'm like, all right, we've made up. Yeah. We forgive each other. Yeah.

If you, you forgive me. Yeah. Anyway, let's get into some other people's issues. Again, you can hear more on benefits of Naomi losing her cool, which I am, again, not looking forward to hearing, but interested to hear about it. It was like triggering on the deepest of levels, I think. I'll rate it if you want. Yes, I would love that.

Therapists. just like us. Yeah, human. Totally. All right. Let's do your emails. And if you guys want to leave us a voicemail, you can leave us a voicemail at 646363-66.6294. Or you can email oversharing at betches.com. Also, other ways to interact with the podcast. You can subscribe. You get two bonus episodes every month plus all the episodes ad free and one day early. Or if you want to get even more involved, you can join one of Dr. Naomi's therapy groups. How do they join? Yeah, go to Naomi Bernstein.com.

You'll get all the info. You can fill out a form and I'll match you up with a group. So hit me up. Love it. And then also we are on YouTube. If you haven't subscribed yet, the link to the YouTube will be in the description of the episode. And it's just a little, get a little more from the show.

If you want to watch on YouTube, it's available there now. All right. Well, let's do our first email, which is a craft my text. Love these. Oh, yeah. And submit them because we, you know, I think this is such a great lesson in like taking a,

taking a breath and doing something intentionally. And text is the best way to do that. Like, I don't think text is the best way to have serious conversations. But I do think that texts are like a great medium for like stop, think, go. Right. Yes. Yep. Totally.

All right, well, I'll read the email and then we can read the text. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I heard about your new segment on how to respond to a text and its perfect timing. I'm struggling on how slash if to respond to this message from my ex, who at 36 years old broke up with me over text. Long story short, we started dating in December and it's been really amazing. So this really is out of the blue. He is six years, divorced with a child, and has clearly had some trouble balancing his

personal life of having a new girlfriend along with his life with the daughter. I brought it up a few times because I do feel like he has a lot going on and I didn't want to add stress to him. He always said it wasn't an issue. Last week, while he was on a vacation with his family, I had communicated that I didn't like going two days without a quick five-minute call. He has ADHD and has trouble focusing on more than one thing at a time. So I was trying to be understanding about it. He sent this text on Friday afternoon and it's now Tuesday. We even had a vacation plan for next week that I had to cancel. I couldn't figure out what to do or say. So I didn't figure out what to do or say. I just canceled the flights and Venmoed back his money.

I still haven't responded and I really appreciate any feedback. I want to be as healthy as possible, but is no response a good response? All right. So let's read his breakup text. Hi, sorry to have to send this through text, but it's been difficult to get enough alone time to have a conversation like this and I didn't want to keep you guessing. I know I've seemed distant during this trip and while I've been with my family, it's been really tough for me to find a healthy balance with everything.

and I realize that hasn't been fair to you. When I have blank, she's my full focus, and I've needed to be fully present in those moments. I didn't anticipate how difficult it would be to balance that with giving you the time and attention you deserve. You're an incredible person, and you deserve someone who can be fully present for you. Right now, I just can't provide that in the way you should have,

and I want to be honest and fair to you. I really enjoyed our relationship and getting to know you, and I truly appreciate the time we've shared. All right. This is a tough one. Yeah, I can't. can't tell from her message how she feels what she wants, what she wants to say. So we're going to go with that and help her craft the text. But if you guys are writing in, let us know like what you really want

to say and then we'll clean it up. Yeah. It's a little better when we get a text that we then edit. So we have a sense of like what you're looking to convey. Right. Although for this, it seems like the part that she's most disturbed about is that he broke up with her over text. Right. So to me, I felt like what she really wanted from this was to get a full conversation. Okay. Right. You might be right.

And I think one way to go would be to say, like, this is, you know, I can be patient. I can wait until you're home from vacation. Like, let's talk about this in person or at least on the phone. On the phone, at least, yeah. But the way that I took it was like, she was thinking of not responding. at all, which I don't think that's the best way to go after you've, you know, had, it sounds like, four, four month relationship. Yeah.

You know. I understand the urge. Right. I totally understand the urge. Because like, what are you really going to say? Okay, thanks for letting me know. Right. Best of luck.

Best wishes. Wish you the best. I wrote my text, which I will read in a second, with the idea of like, she wants to respond maturely, address the issues and have a little. bit of closure like received were broken up goodbye in some way i'll just read what i wrote for her and you'll let me know and but if she does want a conversation this is not the one so the text that i suggest that she write back was i appreciate your honesty and i had a feeling you might be struggling to balance both relationships thanks for validating my desire for more consistency and thanks

for being a part of my journey i've enjoyed it too that sounds very healthy yeah and good And goodbye and it's over. I mean, she doesn't sound like she wants to fight for this. Like, he's ending it. She didn't say that, right? Yeah. It's not, I don't think there's a lot to say other than, you know, I had a feeling this was going to happen because she said she brought this up a couple of times.

He kept denying that it was an issue. I think your text is perfect and healthy and really nice. And, I mean, it has been three months, right? So he's, I do think a phone call would have been more mature and nicer. And clearly, that's not something that he. has done or felt comfortable doing or maybe he was scared to do that. I think a lot of people do that. So I think your text is great. And I think I would keep that and then just add at the end, if she does, if the thing that's bothering her most is that it's over text and she feels like she

has more to say or she wants answers about certain things, I think she could say all that. And then end with, I would really appreciate a phone call just to tie, you know, just to tie up any loose ends on my end. It would really help me just close out this whole relationship. Right. I agree. I do think if she wants a conversation, which I think she's entitled to, I think it was almost, I don't think he's a bad guy. I think he was just like, I can't have, I can't do a breakup. I think what happens for a lot of people is they have to weigh, I like this person. I enjoy spending time with them, but there are certain sacrifice. that I have to make to be in a relationship.

And the benefits of the relationship are not outweighing the sacrifices that I would have to make to be a good boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever the case might be. Yeah, especially, I think as you get older, and this guy has a child and he's divorced. So I think a lot of the times, the older you get, the less willing to make sacrifices you are for a relationship. because he's like, all right, I like have my daughter. I have my situation set. Like she wants two five minute phone calls, which doesn't seem like a lot. But I'm kind of, it's kind of made me realize that I don't really want to do anything else that I don't really want to do. Because I probably, this guy probably already does a lot of stuff he doesn't want to do because he has a six year old daughter.

Exactly. Yep. And I think that happens a lot when you're dating someone and you're like, oh, this feels like it's pretty good. but like you make a couple of very reasonable relationship requests, whatever they are. But some people are like, I want to see you in the way that I want to see you. And I want to be in this relationship in the way that I want to be in this relationship. And if that doesn't work for you, I'm out. Right.

It makes it sound like they're a bad person, but like that's your right as a dater to decide how much, you know, you're willing to do what you don't feel like doing. to be in a relationship. Yeah. And I mean, I say this all the time. It's like you can hold out for like finding. And again, I don't think anyone's perfect, but you can hold out to find out, find someone who interacts and wants just the right amount from you.

You just have to be okay with being single for that. So this guy is like more okay with being single than he is having to deal with someone who wants him to call them two times with five minute calls. Yes. Through his vacation. Exactly. Which is again, if he's just doing his own personal. math. It's not personal. And that doesn't, that means her request is totally valid. She could

a hundred percent find someone who not only would do that, but probably wants to do that. Yes. Yep. I totally agree. You have to decide if you want the phone call. Maybe you want that time to just have more closure. But if you don't really need it and you're doing it just to kind of be like this isn't cool, breakups over text are not cool. They're not. But if you don't really want the conversation, I don't think you need to have it just to like. like force him to have it. I hope that that helped. I do think, did you write a full blown text? Can we hear yours? No, mine was just about getting him on the phone. Oh, okay. So I think yours was good because I think also he's, here's the thing that I didn't have, which I think that yours is great with, is that

yours sort of like lets him know you don't think he's evil. Right. Like mine was just going to go straight to, can we get on a call? Like, like, I think I deserve to to discuss this over the phone. Right. But yours, I think, makes him much more likely to do that, which is why I'm changing mine to just add to the end of yours, like, would love to get on a call. Yes. If that's okay. Because I'm putting myself in his shoes, I'm much more likely to get on a call. If the person isn't texting, would you please get on a call?

I deserve a call. And instead being like, hey, here where you're coming from. Like, debillinizes him before getting there. Totally. Yeah, because I think that's what he's not looking to do. do is like have to do anything he doesn't feel like doing, which I'm sure he doesn't feel like having this breakup conversation on a phone call after he just sent that whole tax. But yeah, that is one of the drawbacks of dating is you, oh, you do have an interpersonal

responsibility to somebody. Right. To like handle an ending in a way that feels okay for both of you. So. Right. And maybe she kind of like, maybe the relationship was more serious to her than it was to him, where he's like, he thought they were like less far along and didn't necessarily, he didn't necessarily need to do phone calls while on a trip.

And maybe like that request was a, you know, we say on you up, it's like a little bit of a mini reveal. Right. The reveal is like, I'm at a place where like, I think we're at a state where when you're going away, I want to be speaking to you on the phone. And he, that made him assess like, oh, I don't know if I'm in that place. She's way more ahead of it. Yep.

More ahead than I am. And so let me end this before because we, because I'm not going to be. giving her what she wants or I'm not where she is. Right. And look, I get it. I get his perspective. I don't know how long this trip is, but he doesn't want to have to like fake it for the next five days or however long he's away for and like just give her these phone calls so they don't have a fight and ruin his trip. So he's like, all right, I'm just going to end this. Do I think he could have found somebody if he's away with his family to watch his daughter for an hour so he could get on the phone with her?

Probably. But again, I don't think he was in a place where he's willing to do a whole bunch for this relationship. Which is good. She found out early. Yeah. All right. Let's do an overshare. Do you want to read it? I will read this. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. So I think it's happening. I got the dreaded, hand delivered letter from my job. It's the one telling me that I have a meeting with the head of the department, HR, and I can bring union representation. I can only assume what this is going to be. Fired. I'm freaking out. And this is never. happened to me before and I want to cry. I work with students with behavioral needs and students on the spectrum. I've never done anything to harm the kids I work with and I am at work every day and available for all

kinds of emergencies and anything they need for me. I really think one person had it out for me and I honestly don't know why. One coworker joked that maybe I slept with her husband. I did not. I don't even know him. I can't seem to get past whatever it is this person said or the seed she planted. She's not even at this job anymore. And now I'm sure this letter is the end for me. Now I'm flooded with imposter syndrome feelings, feeling like I will never find a job like this again and I am not worthy for my profession. In past jobs, I was the leader and looked up to.

My last job cried when I said I was leaving. So this is such a weird feeling to be in now. Ugh, help. I don't want to face this and the dread of starting over is suffocating me. What are some ways to cope with feeling less than? And how do I last till the end of my contract with these people who see me as not fulfilling my job responsibilities? Any words of wisdom or advice you can share would be so helpful.

Thanks in advance, an impostering batch. Okay. This person sounds like they wrote this in the thick of it. Yes. I kind of like that. The sense sort of seemed like a stream of consciousness for getting, like, in the moment of getting a feeling or news that you know. was going to be bad.

Totally. Like she's run the gamut of like all the emotions. Like a little bit of anger, a little bit of like, this is unfair, a little bit of like, I don't know what I'm doing. No one's ever going to hire me.

Like panic mode. Yes. And then the best paragraph, which I will bring her back to, which is she was amazing at her other job. She left her other job. They cried. She was awesome.

Like building herself back up. And then very quickly coming back. Right. down again. So yeah, I appreciate this email because it really, I think we've all been there in the thick of getting what feels like a rejection. Yeah. And I think a lot of people are going through this right now. I've heard personally, I mean, anecdotally, I've heard of so many people let go. It's like the economy is very weird. And I think this is a very common occurrence that like people of a certain age are getting let go or a certain position or a certain, you know, whether it's the

government or just general companies kind of acting on like this fear. Yeah. Recession or finances and just leading to a lot of this kind of thing. So I'm sure this is going to be relatable to a lot and helpful for a lot of people. Yeah. For sure. I mean, this, I think the other piece that is makes this feel so heavy is that they're saying like you can bring union representation, which is like it almost is making her feel like, do I need to be preparing for a battle? Like this sounds serious. And like, but yeah, I mean, I don't know. know how far in you are, but I would do what they say and, like, protect yourself. And if there's some kind of, it sounds like maybe you're a teacher or, you know, contract, because she says last till the end of my contract. Right. So. So I don't know if you do have a union representative, this does feel really scary. Like, I would be scared if I got this email. So I think I can't deliver, bring a union representative. Like, she's just like, I'm just a therapist or whatever, trying to like work with these kids like I'm not prepared for a whole workforce battle here.

Right. So it's like I think it's like the responsibility or the feeling of like, okay, now I have to be prepared coupled with I'm in fight or flight. Like I'm both dealing with the rejection to my ego of being told I'm not good enough to be. I mean, she hasn't been told anything yet of the anticipation of being told that I'm not good enough. But also now I need to have my game, have my A game on to make sure I don't get like screwed over. I think it's a lot to deal with. I'm sure she doesn't know what to do first, what to do. Like, what would you do if you were her? Yeah, this is the hardest part because what I would do if I were her and what I would love for her to do is focus on that paragraph where she writes about her last job and all the

things she's doing well here and all the reasons why she knows that she's good at her job. So I would do, you know, kind of what I was doing in the back of the car, like, just kind of take those deep breaths and focus on like, I am okay. Like my sense of self, this would be different if she did, like, lose her temper with a kid or something. And she really had something that she was feeling shameful around or that she did that, which happens. I mean, nobody's perfect, right? So, but that's not what we're dealing with. Sounds like she's done everything by the book. She feels really good at her job. I mean, maybe she even wants to go back to her prior job. She's talking about being afraid that she's never going to find anything.

I would calm those fears first, come back to what you know about you, and that maybe this does sound like it's some kind of external, funky, interpersonal thing. But what you hit the nail in the head, it's really hard to kind of just do the thing. We're like, okay, I'm good. I'm good at my job. I'm going to find something else. maybe it'll open a new door that I wasn't expecting.

There have been other people that really value me, really like calming her sense of self first because that's what I think is the most triggered. But again, that's really hard to do. It's hard to be calm and be ready for battle at the same time. Right. So I think the first thing is to calm yourself. And once your body is nice and calm,

then you can move forward with like seeking out some advice. from other people. It sounds like there might be some kind of union involved. I would call them and let them know what's happening, see if you want to have somebody in the room with you when this is going on. It sounds like maybe they're aware that it might come off to you as a little bit unfair or funky because they're even suggesting that you would want to have representation there. Right.

And you don't even know what they're going to say. Yeah, it could not be as bad as she's. as she's thinking. Right. It could be we have to make some cuts, the budget, our enrollments down. Right. You know, maybe it has nothing to do with you personally. Yeah.

I mean, most people don't get advanced notice when they're going to be fired. So if she is getting fired, I would almost look at this as in some ways, like it's kind of sucks when you get this kind of thing because then you just spend every single second leading up to the moment where you have this meeting dreading and worrying about what's going to be said in the meeting. But the positive is that you can work through. the worst case scenario in your mind and come prepared with how you want to respond that's like not it's a little bit less emotional that's a little bit more like thoughtful, calculated

and taking like everything into mind. Right. Totally. So I think there are two pieces. One is my ego, like you mentioned. Am I good at what I do? Am I a good person? Am I valuable at this, you know, in terms of like this calling that I have to help these children. And then the second piece is I'm afraid that I'm not going to find another job. Right. So don't let those two intermingle too much. Like you know you're good at what you do. You know you're valuable and you're going to find something else.

Right now, like you said in the beginning, it's just a big, you know, vomit of all the emotions, which I appreciate. it's very real. It's what a lot of people feel. So thank you for putting it in writing and getting it out there. But yeah, separate out the fears. I'm afraid I'm not being valued. I'm afraid literally from my security, my job security going forward. And then you can kind of walk through the reasonableness of each of those fears once your body is nice and calm. So I think that's the first thing that you have to do. And then you can be like, all right, strategically, legally, what do I have to do to protect myself?

Agreed. Okay. All right. Sorry. Give us an update on this. Yeah, let us know if this helped. All right. Let's do a betraces.

Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, first time writing in, but oversharing is one of my absolute favorite podcasts and I look forward to it every week. I love the advice you give and hearing about all the different scenarios you talk through each week. I had a scenario come up that I would love to get your take on from an ethical perspective. In my last role at my corporate job, I managed a senior level employee who was very challenging to work with. They needed my help with even the smallest, simplest tasks, were not able to work independently and just generally produce sloppy work. In performance reviews, I gave them gentle feedback on things they needed to work on, but it never seemed to improve.

I also received poor feedback on this employee from business partners they worked with. They were ultimately let go through a round of layoffs. My badgerist's question came up from a situation a few days ago. I now work for a different company that is hiring within my department, and this former employee reached out to me to see if I would recommend them for an open role at my new company. How do I approach this situation? Lie and say I will recommend them and then don't actually pass on their resume.

Or be honest and say that I'm not comfortable recommending them. I don't want to hurt their feelings, but I also don't want to hurt my professional reputation and recommend someone that I truly don't believe will be successful. Any advice would be so appreciated. Thanks. That's a great one. Oof, my thoughts are this, depending on how ethical of a human, how high do you want to rise? I get the temptation and I think a very real option.

As much as lying isn't great, I think you could phrase it in a way that's like, thanks, I'll see what I can do, which isn't really a lie. You're seeing what you can do and what you can do is nothing because what you would say wouldn't be helpful. So I think you can do something like that and still be within ethical boundaries and not have to hurt their feelings. Right. The hot is a good one. I like that. I'll see what I can.

I'm going to bank that in my notes section for something I don't. I'm not, for anything that I'm not going to see what I can do. So I think that you could phrase it like that. If you really want to be like a mentor and like someone who's going to be. like make a difference in this person's life if you have a lot of time in your hands and you want to rise above you could say hey let's meet for a call or let's meet for a coffee or something and just sit down with them and be like here's my feedback about you and what I noticed about you at when I was your manager in this last role here's the ways that I think you could improve I think if she wants

to be like if I were this person the best thing that somebody could do for me in my career is sit down with me and be really honest. And especially because they're not like working together anymore. She should probably have been more honest with her and her feedback then. But if she really wanted to rise above, she could say, hey, I just want to let you know. I'm not going to be able to recommend you for this role. These are some things that I saw. I want to help you and help you kind of try to work on, you know, what she calls sloppy. Like these are the things like the same feedback that I gave you when I was working with you. This is some of the feedback that I gave. I didn't really get a chance to see it improve. Hopefully it can. And I'd love to be, you know,

kind of someone that can help you along in your career. But you've got to work on these things before I can then wholeheartedly recommend you. I wouldn't put that in a email. I wouldn't send that in a text. I would have a meeting where you can be really open and honest as like a mentor role. Right. But that's that's far. That's like going really hard. be a really, really good person to do that. Because I could see where she's like, I don't, now this is like my job. I'm like your career coach. Also, here's the other thing.

This person didn't ask her, I think, for like feedback on how she's doing. Like the one thing if they were like, would you recommend me? Like let me know if there's anything you think like I should work on because I'd love this role and I'd love to be great. Like there wasn't. And it just sounded like it was like, can you do me the favor of like throwing. my name into the ring and vouching for me. Right. So I would, I don't know if I, I think that's like really nice thing to do.

I don't know if one, she would do it or two, I don't know if it would be well received. She might be like, well, who asked you? Right. That's true. She might be like, I just ask for the record. I'd be open to meeting with you to discuss this further. Yeah.

I think I would probably just go with the, I'll see what I can do. Yeah, me too. I literally, I honestly would do that. What if she followed up? Like, hey, just submitted the res. may like let me know when you've recommended me. It's very hard not to lie in these scenarios. Very hard not to lie. And I guess, you know, that's the question. This one, this one really had me stumped. William, when I first read it, I took a good long time to sit and think because

lying isn't great, but like hurting someone's feelings just for the sake of it is hard too. I think it might be good practice for this listener. If she did put, if she did the whole like, let me see what I can do. Right. And then she followed up again to just be honest at that point. She's following up again. And actually just say I, you know, to be honest, I didn't feel comfortable referring to you based on the issues that I had that I gave you in our, you know, in our feedback sessions when we were working together. Right.

Another white lie that's also kind of like not true, but sort of true is like, I don't know if I don't know that I'd be comfortable recommending you because I'm not sure you. because I'm not sure you'd be the right fit for this position. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good way. She's telling her without telling her. I'm trying to think how I, if someone asked me to set them up with someone. Right. Right.

And I knew that person like, they weren't their type or whatever. Wasn't their type or wasn't going to be. I guess you could always ask that wouldn't be like as weird as this. But I might say if I knew the other person wasn't going to be interested in them, I might say like, I don't really think you'd be a good match. Yeah, that's a good response. I'm not sure that you'd be the best fit for this role.

Yeah. And if they don't want, they also might be like, like insulted by that but to me it's like all right you don't really know them you're not you didn't waste a whole lunch on them right right yeah no I agree the wasting the lunch that's more like I you know I want to do a good deed for the year and I'm going to like do a good deed and I'm going to like mentor this person and take this whole thing on I really don't I don't think you need to do that um I think that would be like the most ethical thing to do in the world I don't think you need to do that. I think the first one, which is like, I'll see what I can do and or straight out of the

box. I don't think you'd be a good match for this role. Or you start off with, I'll see what I can do. If she pushes it, you can come back and say, to be honest, I don't think you're a good match for this role. Yes. And then if they ask you to elaborate, you can say why. Yeah. Okay. I think that helped. It's going to be uncomfortable. It's so annoying when this happens because you're like, I didn't even, I was just going about my day. Now you're making me into an asshole. Right. I mean, the fact that she cares is really nice. She's writing in. She's trying to do the right thing.

She doesn't want to lie, which is beautiful. Keep doing you. Be a good person. But yeah, that's true. Like now all of a sudden I feel like the asshole because no matter what I do, either I lie or I like break your spirit. Right. Why'd you do this to me? Horrible.

Okay. Well, let's do some triggers. Should we roll the tape on our first one? Oh, yeah, let's do it. Hey, Trinna and Dr. Naomi. I have a triggered for you that happened this morning, and I love your opinion on it. So for some context, I work from home, 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. Monday to Friday. And my husband is home during that time and takes care of our 11-month-old baby.

So throughout the day, I still help him. I nurse the baby. I help get our son down for naps. comfort him if he gets really upset about something. And I'll just, like, hold him if my husband needs to, like, go to the bathroom or prepare food or whatever. Our house is pretty small. So, like, it's kind of like we're all hanging out all day and I'm just in the corner working. Even though my husband is the primary caregiver, he's not really, like, solo parenting if he gets plenty of support for me.

And then right when I finish my work day, I typically take over, like, right at 3 p.m. I'm on child care and my husband will go work on, like, his projects around the house, or maybe take a nap, do, like, a little self-care, or he does kind of have a side hustle as a handyman, so he'll go out and do, like, a handyman project as well. So anyway, this morning we were all laying in bed as a family, like, playing with our son before my workday started, and my husband suddenly just groans really loudly, and he's like, ugh, it's only two. Like, I can't wait for the week. So mind you, on the weekends, he normally gets up, gets out the door, like, really early, and goes to tackle one or more of his handyman projects. So he's typically gone all day. So from my perspective, it feels like he's saying, like, oh, I can't wait for when I get to get away from you to and just go work all day. which I like I do understand like he likes working he likes to feel productive and you know it's kind of like a break from having a parent you know we both love our son but it's always nice to be able to kind of take a break from that but it also seems pretty depressing to me that he's so despises like his time just like hanging out of the house with me and our son that he's like groaning about it being only Tuesday like he's some weekend warrior dealing with this nine to five grind

but the grind is just like being home with us. So yeah, anyway, I kind of expressed my hurt, and he loved us, and I'm spending time with us, and he just really likes working. I just feel like, that's two different things. He's going to be like, oh, I'm excited for this weekend because I have, like, a big project, but I'm excited to tackle.

Versus me, like, ugh. I can't believe it's only Tuesday. Like, I cannot wait for the weekend when I can go to work. So, yeah, anyway, I was just wondering what you guys think, how triggered can I feel? Because I definitely got pretty upset. Anyway, love the podcast. Love you guys. And yeah. I could see how this comment would be annoying. Yeah. But I could also see how it would be very true. Yes. Totally. Totally. I completely agree. Yeah, I get it because she's kind of like her favorite thing probably is like the weekends when like, you know,

maybe she gets to spend more quality time with her baby. And maybe he's around for some of that. And they can just kind of be a family and not have to have someone necessarily working the entire time. But it does sound like he just want. I think I get it. It's triggering. It feels like I can't wait to get away from you. I totally can see why that.

I think he means we can't wait to get away from the baby. Yeah. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I don't think it's value. Yeah. It's a lot. And I think it's also can't wait to get away from the baby because that is a lot all day.

But I think he just also probably enjoys feeling productive. And maybe for him, if he is the type of guy who likes to do projects and hands on like handyman stuff, he, there's a feeling that he's missing. Like I produce something at the end of the day versus like I just kept this child alive. And there's not like that much really to show for it. Like if he's building a bathroom, like at the end of his day, he's like, wow, I built that bathroom. I fixed that thing. I like feel really productive.

He got to use his hands. He got to be uninterrupted, like to focus on something. Yeah. I see his perspective, but I could see why this is hurtful. Yeah. I think there's this, there's probably this feeling where like she, she feels more excitement coming home because she has this other job during the week. So she feels like, okay, I'm working.

And then at three, I get to like, I get to see my baby, which is I think a lot of people who, a lot of parents like working so that they can feel like they miss their baby. Right. I think so that they can be like excited to take care of and feed and do all that stuff. But it's like when you're doing it constantly, I think there is this feeling of like, I need some balance. Yeah. And I think societally we still are not, he's probably not totally immune. to maybe some ego stuff around being a stay-at-home dad. You know, like I don't think it's fully,

I'm sure there's some of that that plays into it where he feels like he gets to leave the house and do something, you know, to earn money and to, you know, feel productive. So. And she's helping him,

but it's like he, it is his primary responsibility. Right. Yeah. It sounds like he's the, like she's like, I hold him when he has to go to the bathroom. You know,

like he, he sounds like he. he's she's not not helping but and she does sound like she's still nursing so that's a big part of it but like it does sound like he's majority like if the baby needs something or is crying or like whatever it is he's on it and he's doing that he's 11 months old he's probably on the move he's following him around the house and like it is exhausting and yeah I don't think it's getting away from you I think it's getting a break from the baby which if you don't go into parenting signing up for stay-at-home parenting, even if you do, it's a lot.

Like, everyone needs a break. And that's really the only break that he gets. And it's true. I mean, stay-at-home parents is kind of like a seven-day-a-week job. You don't really get the weekends off. So I can see why he's like, okay, I have this job. It's kind of my way of getting my weekend off. My weekend off, even though I'm working. It's like, I think that's the biggest complaint I've heard about people who are stayed-home parents. Like your job is not, it's kind of like 24, seven. It's not like nine to five. Then you go home and you relax.

It's like, oh, the baby's there all the time. Yeah. And even, you know, this part might be hurtful to her too, but I think it's normal that maybe he just wants some alone time, you know, like they're all three and a small house together all day. I can see this idea of like, I get to get out of the house and like driving a car by myself, have a conversation with somebody else, listen to whatever music I want to listen to and not be listening to Miss Rachel all day or, you know, whatever music everyone agrees on.

Like he can have his own time alone in the car when he's focusing, doing his product. Like I totally get it. I wouldn't, you know, I see the feeling that you got from that totally valid. And even the way it was presented, like, oh, I can't wait for the weekend. This life of mine is so dreadful. Right. I think if he had said, I can't wait to, like, get a little break from parenting. Yes.

Might still be offensive, but I think less offensive. It doesn't totally. Less about her. Yeah. I'd give this like a three. Yeah. I agree. I get why she's feeling this way, but knowing all that, I agree.

I'd give it a three, maybe three and a half. He loves you. It's not you. It's being in a small house. He's got to ask you to go to the bathroom. Yeah, exactly. Even just that, like literally, just being able to like, I can go to the bathroom. I don't have to rush when I'm in the bathroom.

I don't have to ask permission to go to the bathroom. Like, if I want to make myself a snack, I can like take the extra time to make it the way I want it without worrying about that I'm keeping you from your work and I'm going to have this baby back any second. And 11 months is a tough age because, in my opinion, that's the age where they're like moving. They're putting things in their mouth, but they have no clue about like consequences or danger or they're like wrecking balls. I wouldn't take this too personally. Right.

All right. Let's do one more. Okay. My sister and I have very different parenting styles and I've rarely, if ever, watched her kids and she's basically never watched mine. We're friendly and the cousins hang out. We do stand-up comedy together and generally have a pretty fair relationship. That's an interesting hobby to share with your sister. Totally.

Yeah, that is kind of fun. Yeah, that is kind of fun. It seems like you'd have to be like pretty close to do stand-up comedy together. How triggered can I be with how she asked me to watch her kids? Dave is my fiance and the two kids are my kids that are technically not his, though we live together and he's definitely super dad. Curious if I'm too triggered about this. You can be the person who's writing in and I will be her sister.

Okay. Any chance you'd be interested or willing to come watch my three kiddos on May 3rd at my house for me and leave Dave with the girls from 7 to 11 or 12, you'd have to do their bedtimes and such. I can understand if that would be too much, but just wanted to ask. I'd be happy to. Wait, I probably leave someone else with one of the girls and bring Dave, mostly because I'm not loving driving when it's dark.

PTSD, etc. That works. We just wanted to ask that you don't have the girls so you could have full attention on the kids, especially since it's all three. It's just a little nerve-wracking for me still. I'm so sorry to hear that about the driving. I'm not going to lie. This text is extremely off-putting to me and makes me not really want to help you. Hi, I'm sorry that upsets you. Definitely no pressure to help, just being transparent. It's hard because I feel judged by it, to be honest. I don't think it was necessary at all. It's definitely. not my intention. Like I said, I just haven't left all three of them with anyone for bedtime. I just

wanted to make it clear so that there wasn't any misunderstanding. That's all. Well, you're making it, quote, clear. My kids aren't welcome, which I wasn't even planning or asking to bring them. Okay. You can take it whatever way you want to. I was just letting you know. But I feel pretty grossed out by it. Okay. Just being transparent as well. I was willing to help for sure, but now I'm not really interested. This is like such a sisters, like a frenemy sister text. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm being transparent. Well, now I'm being transparent. TBAH. I'm not really interested in helping you at all anymore. I didn't find this that triggering to me. Like it seemed like she said it in a way that was like nice. She was just basically like I'm a little, I guess I could see why it would might be

insulting, like, you don't think I know what to do or I can handle it or I have the judgment to, like, bring my kids. And it seems like she has this, there's something going on where she feels like her kids are unwelcome. Like, to me, like, is there something else that would make her think that her sister doesn't like her kids? Right. Well, maybe just this thing that they've, like, never really, they've never been in, like,

a parental role for each other's kids. Maybe they're, like you said, they said, she said they have different parenting styles. So maybe there is like a back and forth judgment of each other's parenting slash the results of their parenting. Like your kids are not well behaved. And I'm not saying that's the case, but it does seem like there is a little bit of a sensitivity around that. Right. Because if you took this at face value, she's basically just saying like, I'm super anxious about leaving the kids all three of them at the same time and having one person watch them. like, I'm scared you're going to be overwhelmed if you bring your kids to.

Yes. Which seems like not that insulting unless there was a history of a feeling of your parenting style is maybe a little more lax than mine would be. Right. Which you have to think from this that that's what it is because the one sister is like a little neurotic. Like if we're going to do this, this is how we're going to do it. Not another option would have been, hey, bring Dave.

And the two of you will handle the five kids. Right. Like you'll have. She said she was bringing Dave. Right. But I'm saying like the beginning, what, what the sister wanted was. And she's asking for the help. So she's asking for the help in the exact way that she wants it, which is like, I would like you to leave your kids at home.

I would like you to come by yourself. And I would like you to just watch my three kids. What another option might have been is like, we're both going to come. We'll have this is like if this were me, Right. I'd probably be like, we're going to have all the cousins together. Me and Dave will do it. It's going to be a blast. We'll have all five kids. There'll be two parents. We'll kind of have the cousins have a little sleepover party. And like that sounds fun. I think the sister is a little bit more on the cautious like. Right. I don't want your kids bad behavior warping off. Right. And the other and the listener is a little bit more like lax and chill. And I think she's I think what's making this. triggering is that judgment. Right. Perceived judgment. She didn't say it like that, but I could see why if that's evident, she's taking it that way.

Yes, because there probably is a little bit of water under the bridge or something where she knows it's so clear that they have different parenting styles. I think she's overreacting a little bit. I don't know if I would call it gross or saying her kids are unwelcome. I think she can express, there would be a healthier. She didn't write this in as a craft my text. But if we could edit this text and she was annoyed by the insinuation, I think she could say, when you say you don't want my kids to come, it makes me think that you're judging my parenting style or you don't think I'm able to take care of your kids well.

Right. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that she's being triggered, like the definition of triggered. Something else is triggering her that is not. I don't think anything that the sister said here. was that triggering. She's allowed to ask for this and the way she wants. And the listener is also allowed to say, no, I don't feel that doesn't work for me.

What I could do is, you know. But she said she was going to do it this way anyway. She's like, I wasn't going to bring them anyway. Right. I was going to leave whoever someone else with my kids and bring Dave with me. I think she's being very sensitive. I think there's more to it. I don't think anything the sister said.

screamed, you're not good enough. You don't know how to handle this. I think the sister said it in a way that was like pretty reasonable. She made a suggestion. If she didn't like the suggestion, she could have, you know, said, well, I don't, that doesn't work for me. She asked for it how she wanted it. She clearly didn't, you know, like maybe she does think your parenting style is not

the way she would do it, which is like, fine. again. She's not saying like if she had said this text of like, I know you let your kids run around and like kind of do whatever they want, but I just ask if you leave them at home because I don't want my kids to have. Like if she had said, and maybe that's what she's thinking. And maybe that's why she's triggered because she's like, that's what she's thinking. But that's not what she said. Yeah, that's not what she said. So I'm going to rank this to, I actually think her response is a lot more triggering. Yeah. I think to call it gross is a little bit like relax a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just reading back over the text that triggered her.

The specific text that triggered her is that works. We just want to ask you didn't have the girls so you could have full attention on our kids since it's all three. It's just a little nerve-wracking for me still. So that's the part. I think the sister-ro, it's a little nerve-wracking for me. You know, like. Yeah, I get anxiety. That's why I have this controlling parenting style. That's basically what she's saying. Right. I don't think there's anything she said in there. She said, I'd rather you don't have the girls.

That's what she said. That's what you were planning to do anyway because you knew. You also agree that it would have been too much to have your girls and those three kids. Maybe it's like you don't think I know what I'm doing. Like you don't, you think you thought you had to tell me that. Right. Which like, I don't know. I guess if someone told me something that I thought was obvious.

you might be like they really, but also I'd be like, all right, they just want to cover all their bases. Yeah, I also don't think it's so obvious, like I said. I'm like, you know, from the house that we grew up in, it's like there's kids running around from like, I don't even know who half the kids are in this house right now. So like, I would be like, oh, I'll bring the kids. We'll have a big slumber party. That'll be really fun. Like that's kind of, you know, so I don't think it's so obvious. If someone said that to you, would you be insulted?

if they were like, can you just, not bring the girls? Yeah, I would get it. I'd be like, yeah, okay. You know, I would get it that for some people, they don't like a whole big, like, you know, chaotic slumber party vibe. Yeah. You know, they want like bedtimes at seven and we start heading up the stairs at 615 and we're focused and I get it.

Everyone has different parenting styles. What I do think is I think you guys do stand up comedy together. Interesting little side note, right? I wonder if they do comedy about their parenting styles or something. Right. I was going to say put this in your act. Totally. I think you guys should talk openly.

You and I agree that she probably overreacted a little bit in her reaction to that last text that got her. I would bring this up and be like, look, I know we have different parenting styles. I feel, you know, mine works for me. Yours works for you. If you do sometimes feel judged by her, I would bring that up in like a an outside calm conversation. Like sometimes I feel like I love watching your kids.

I want to be able to spend time with them. I want us to be able to do that for each other. But sometimes I do feel a little judged if that's how you feel, which it sounds like maybe you do, which is why this is triggering you. So I would just approach it with her outside of like watching, you know, this exact scenario because it would be nice if you guys could watch each other's kids

every now and then and also kind of accept each other's influence a little bit. Right. Do it a little bit more like they would do it. Right. When you're watching their kids. Right. All right.

Well, I think something's got to come out. This is what, like the good thing about this is that it's making, I hope it makes you aware that there's like a little bit of an underlying tension here around this. Clearly. Bring it to the surface and talk about it. Maybe you guys could like, that's the thing about comedy, right? Like it's a great way to kind of bring something out. into the open that's unspoken.

That's also the thing about sisters, I think. I mean, we have so many of them is that you could have a conversation like this, like you said, and very easily just go from like next week. You just act like everything is normal. Right. So a lot of this stuff doesn't ever get talked about in a healthy way because, like, you might not speak to someone like this if they weren't your sister. You might not be like gross.

Like forget it. I'm not helping you. You're like really annoying. Right. Because then you might not speak to that friend again. Right. Exactly. So I think that's a great point.

You could actually pretend you're not sisters and use this as an opportunity to like actually get into it. Because then maybe you won't have these, you know, passive aggressive texts with each other. Totally. Yeah. And both parenting styles have their merits, you know, like it's great. Being structured and organized and, you know, cautious is great. and being able to go with the flow and like tackle, handle whatever comes up is great too. Yeah.

I give this a two. Yeah. I would give this a two. I don't make she said anything wrong. Yeah. I would give this a two also. She was just explaining where she was coming from and why she wanted it done that way. I hate giving super low triggered ratings because I want you guys to feel validated.

But hopefully I validate the underlying thing that's triggering you and we don't have the backstory. But yeah, this in and of itself, that text was not too bad. Agreed. All right. Well, we did it. I'm proud of us. All right. That's our time.

Great work today. Betches.