Oversharing - I Love My Boyfriend But I Miss The Chase

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Jordana and Dr. Naomi discuss how they’re kicking off the summer. Our Overshare comes from a Betch who’s missing the thrill of the chase. Today’s Betchicist goes out to listener who wants out of Sunday dinner. Dr. Naomi writes an intention to help navigate uncomfortable convos with grieving family members. And we’re feeling triggered by golf dads and recycled proposals. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. Always lovely to be back with you fresh recording on a Monday morning.

Yes. How is it going? How is your Dallas summer? It's actually going. great. It's funny because when we moved here, one of the biggest things I was fearful of was, you know, kind of being landlocked in the middle of nowhere. There's not really any mountains. There's not really any beaches. It's not super scenic. But we've been exploring and finding some cool, drivable spots. So that's cool. We went to Brokenbow, Oklahoma.

Okay. Which like doesn't. That's cool. Right. It's feeling. It feels very, like, it's funny because when you live in the Northeast, it's like you take a drive, you go to Martha's Vineyard, you can go to Cape Cod, you can go to Newport, Rhode Island, like all these cool little coastal towns. Are you naming all the Massachusetts places people go. Oh, are those? Yeah.

But, yeah, I mean, there's like the Jersey Shore. Yeah. There's the Hamptons. And, I mean, there's just so many places that you can drive to. And here there's fewer. but we went to this we went to Oklahoma and it was really cool there's like beautiful lakes and we went hike down to a river we did like the river was freezing so we did our little cold plunge breath work down by the river yeah it was really nice lake life i feel like that's yeah when you're

landlocked you do you do lakes yeah i need to go to a lake in like the midwest or something yeah it is it It actually is, it's kind of cool. If you, you know, especially if you know how to drive a boat or you have a boat or whatever, that's fun because it's not like ocean boating where you have to worry about as much about, like, weather and, you know, it's easier, I think, to handle a boat on the lake. There's less, um, probably like variables to consider. Yeah. It's pretty chill.

Okay. What about you? Um, I'm good. This, uh, it's starting to get warm here. Which is really nice. because like I feel like I thrive in the sun. Oh, yes. Yeah, me too.

It's just, I don't know if it really is chemical, like vitamin D or what that is, but it just, and the day is being long. Let's take a moment to just appreciate all of that because. Yeah, I mean, some people don't like the sun. I feel like I could be in the sun just for hours. Like, I'm never just like overheating. I'm never like, I don't know, sweat. doesn't bother me. I just feel like I was made to be in the sun. And thankfully as I'm getting

older, I'm putting on sunscreen. But, um, yes, uh, but, oh, I didn't even talk about Memorial Day when I went to San Francisco. Oh, yes. How was that? It was, it was great. Um, one of the highlights of our trip was we went in, uh, a Waymo, which is like a driverless car. That is so cool. I've never done that. That's, it was my first time. I don't. I don't. I think they haven't even like existed for particularly long, but it was kind of like, I felt like when I got in that car, I felt like, I remember like when we took like Lila and Maddie, I think on a trip to Florida and I was with you when they were like really little. And I remember Lila like is on the plane and the plane is like taking off and she's like jumping on

the seat. She's like we, she's like announcing to the plane. She's like, we are flying. Like we're flying. Like why is she like almost like, why? wondering why no one is like as freaking out freaking out as excited as she is and i always think of that moment it's just like this moment of like pure awe that yes you know so beautiful and i kind of felt like that in the waymo i was like this is right so cool like why is nobody else freaking out right now

there's a car driving itself right and it was just me john and mike so i guess um of the three of us i was probably the most excited but i thought it was it was just very cool to like experience something new and you need that a little just even the little things get you excited yeah a little bit of awe goes a long way and now that you found it there you can find it like in a dandelion or in a big fluffy cloud totally well i mean isn't that why it's probably nice when people have kids because you get to like the things that they get excited about you kind of get to like relive isn't that what they say that is so true i think that's a big appeal is you start to be forced to find awe in things again that you kind of went through it,

but you can experience it again through a child, which is really, or through Jordana. Through me, in a Waymo, a driverless car, yeah. What a time to be alive. I don't know. I was just like crazy, you know. And it's funny because I think you could think like, what a time to be alive. Like there's so many issues. There's so many like, you know, things going wrong.

or you could say like what a time to be alive I just got in a driverless car. Yeah, it's another example of like where you put your attention is where you experience life. So yeah, you have to look at the reality of the world sometimes. But then sometimes just kind of being in that driverless car, watching the steering wheel, turn around and just kind of being in the moment of the awe of somebody like made that happen. that's what I always find so fascinating about anything, even like our phones or airplanes or it's like someone's someone is so much smarter than me, a bunch of people. There are some really, really, really smart people out there that create these technologies that we just get to use. So thank you. If any of our listeners are those people, way to go. Yeah. Thank you. If anyone's

working on the driverless cars. I'm, uh, I'm grateful. That was, that was fun. I kind of made me think, like, you know, when you, when you, when you, when you saw like the TV or something, when your your grandpa, you know, your grandpa, you know, I remember like our grandma telling us about how there was like, one, there was like a TV that they got for like, her, the apartment building that she grew up in and, like, everyone would crowd around it. It's like the big new thing. There's all, and this is, this ages me too, probably compared to you. But I remember first driving with a GPS. And I was like, hold on a it. This is going to get me right from door to door. Like, it's going to tell me how to get there the whole way. And I remember pulling up. I think I took you guys skiing once. Yeah. And it was the

first time that I had used a GPS. And I remember pulling up to the mountain. One of those like shitty detachable ones. It was like a garment or whatever it is. And I remember like, oh my God, this worked. Like I literally just. just got us to the door of the place. I was in awe in that moment of how that worked. Because before that, we were printing up directions on MapQuest on a piece of paper with no, it was just verbal. You just look at it.

Right. Yeah. And before that, you just had a map. Yes. And you just took out your map and like trace your own. Right. Totally. Or you called the place and they told you every step by step had it get somewhere.

Gosh, how far we've come. I know. What a time to be alive. Great. It's sunny. Days are long. Technology is great. We're recording this show from different states.

Seriously. It's insane. Let's jump into our episode and help some people. If you want to leave us a voicemail, you can leave us a voicemail at 6463636262626294. Or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. I'll read our first email. All right. Hi, Dr. Damien Jordana.

Love the pod. I'll jump right in. I'm a 28-year-old woman, and I finally have a boyfriend. I was single most of my life. I've had lots of crushes, fling, situationships, etc., and one short relationship that I ended. I've been with my current boyfriend for a few months, and he's so nice and supportive, and everything feels so easy.

He is proactive in planning date nights. We talk every day, see each other multiple times a week. He's a great listener and super interested in learning about my interests and making me feel special. He is smart, generous, romantic, and sweet. I feel like from the outside, our relationship is so cute. But there's a part of me that feels anxious about being in a committed relationship. I feel like such a hypocrite because I spent years being desperate for a good boyfriend.

And now that I have one, I feel cagey. I was so used to being on and off the apps, listening to dating podcasts and TikToks. And now it feels weird to not be constantly searching for a new guy. I feel like 90% of dating was very much not fun for me. But there was that 10% of the time that it was, thrilling when you get a crush on someone new. With my current boyfriend, I took things really slow and he was really cool with that, but also made it really clear from early on that he liked me and wanted to be in a serious

relationship with me. It took me a little longer to figure out if I wanted to be in a relationship with him, and there's a part of me that feels toxic for wanting a sexier our story page. I feel really guilty because sometimes I think about a different guy that I went on a few dates with right before I met my current boyfriend. With that guy, I had an instant spark and I felt high. for like one week, but of course it ended with him not being ready for a relationship, which left me totally crushed and sobbing for days. I feel really bad for even thinking about that

time, but I guess part of me misses the intense emotions I could have when I was single and dating. I think there's also a part of me that is a little sad realizing that being in a healthy relationship doesn't mean my life is rainbows and unicorns 100% of the time. It's mostly nice and happy and calm, and I feel like it's just really common for me to have super high expectations. expectations and overhyped things in my head, especially with big milestones. That sometimes it's hard for me to actually enjoy the thing that I've wanted for so long when it finally happens. Do you have any advice or intention for navigating all these feelings? I want to focus on all the good things, appreciate my relationship, and nurture it and not let negative

feelings creep in anymore. Sincerely an anxious overthinking betch. This email is great on so many levels. I have so many things to say about this. I mean, I want to give you a chance to talk about it. No, you know, one is I think a huge part that people don't, I think when people are dating, they're looking for a person, right? The concept is like, I need to find my match. I think there's not enough, people don't think enough about the fact that it's finding your match at the time when you're both ready for a relationship lifestyle, which is, that's a big part of being in a relationship, is the lifestyle of being in a relationship, which I think people want to find a person that they connect with. Some people want to find a connection, but they don't really want the lifestyle of being

in a relationship, which is giving up on those thrilling, maybe, maybe not encounters. Like choosing to give up on that is part of what you're choosing when you're looking for a person. And she's feeling that right now, which is, I think, very normal, especially because this guy was into her quickly. He wasn't playing games about it. He said that he liked her. He wanted to be in a relationship. So she didn't even have that. It sounds like too much with him.

Right. So there's no association with him with that, like, game playing. is it or isn't it. So I really think... But you also don't feel like you've like won because you were never losing. Yes. Yes.

But I do think that's a really healthy way to get into a relationship because you're, you know, that person symbolizes security and calm and not this part of your brain that a lot of times romance is not equated with feeling secure

and feeling calm and feeling loved and feeling seen and cared for and all of those things. A lot of times it's associated with this exciting roller coaster. Like the, you know, I'll die if I can't have you now. Yes. It's feeling, which is like not really indicative of a stable relationship. Right. So what you're seeking.

But it's also not as exciting. Yes. What you're seeking is a lot of times not what you actually want. You just want to win. And then when you win, here you are. Right. You're in this stable, very loving relationship. is she ready for the lifestyle of a relationship?

And it sounds like she is, and she just kind of has to, you know, breathe her way through these moments of craving, the same way you breathe your way through the moment of craving alcohol or craving sugar or craving anything else. I think she's having these moments of craving, but ultimately knows that when she was in a constant state of craving,

she didn't really like it. And it wasn't feeling good. Yeah, I could totally relate to that. I think, you know, I used to be very into these like up and down and dramatic relationship, situation type things. And they are more exciting. And it's more exciting because, like, it's like, it's like an ice cream. If you have like an ice cream cone after you've been eating healthy all week, it like tastes a lot.

You're like, it's a lot more exciting than like if you've been eating like shit all weekend. And then you have like another ice cream cone on Sunday. Don't even taste it at that point. It's like, yeah. Right. Yeah. So that's kind of like sometimes that's sort of like a having a boyfriend. Like it's, you know, it's really exciting at first. And then you're like, okay, like, you know, it doesn't feel, you don't get as high from it as you maybe did in the beginning.

Or I guess in her case, maybe ever. Because like it was always pretty stable. Right. And I think that's really interesting what you said about the lifestyle of a relationship. being different than like the person because I don't think people I've never I didn't even really think about that either but it's so true it's kind of like obviously yeah you want to find someone who's a match with you but you also need to be in that mode of I want consistency and stability but it's interesting and I wonder what your take on this is is like are there certain people

who are more comfortable with the up and down than they are with the stability or they that feels, and maybe that is more related to like attachment theory or things like that, to where if they're kind of used to this chaotic kind of thing, maybe they're, that feels more like home to them. Yes. Than like every day we just wake up and things are pleasant and they're not like super high or super low. You know what I mean?

Like I always think of like those girls who found their college boyfriend and they just like married them and the relationship, they like met in college and they had a great time and then they just like kept living like. a normal stable relationship and then they got married. And I'm kind of like, I don't know, they guess they never, they never got that other like high and low and whatever thing, but they never seemed to want that. I'm like maybe some people, it's like they had super stable parents or something like that felt like home to them and that didn't feel weird to them.

Yes. I totally, I think you're 100% right. But I think writing in here or doing self-reflecting is a good way to kind of be like, am I what's comfortable for you isn't always what's best for you and I wouldn't even be saying that for this listener if she didn't say that she disliked it 90% of the time right and that it was only like she barely found joy and peace and serenity and whatever in that lifestyle so but I think there's a great deal of people no matter what age I'm not going to put an age on it like whatever age you are, or if you've been married for, you know, 15 years and then you get divorced and all

a sudden, you're like, okay, now's my time to live this like up and down. Does he like me? Doesn't he like me? Like excitement, romance. Whenever that happens, I think if you're choosing that intentionally and you're aware of that about yourself, that that's part of the fun of it, and then you can kind of, that, and then that person can sort of breathe through those moments where it doesn't feel great and be like, well, this doesn't feel great right now because I've gotten like the nail and the coffin rejection from the guy that I've been flirting with for a few weeks and this doesn't feel good. But I'll remember that moment when I did walk in to meet up with him for whatever and it was exciting and fun. And we had this very, you know, casual free fun encounter. So I

think whichever when you choose, you just kind of have to, you know, breathe through those moments of discomfort because you're being intentional about how you're spending the majority of your time. You know, if you're looking for the thrill, great. And that feels good to you. For this listener, I don't think it did. So I'd probably recommend that she just kind of like breathe through these moments of craving and realize that the majority of the time it's what she wants. But she also brings up another great point around like seeking these milestones, right?

Like almost the idea, and I think this happens for a lot of people, you know, even whether you're looking to get the boyfriend, okay, got the boyfriend. Great. Now my seeking mindset is like looking for the next thing where, you know, I want to get married. And you're just having in your head this visual of somebody else's like wedding photos that you see on Instagram. You're like, that's what I want. But you're not realizing like, okay, that's the thing. And then there's like 50 year marriage, God willing or whatever it is after that. Like that's the whole point of it isn't like this milestone of the wedding day.

It's like this entire life that comes. Right. Getting deeper and deeper into this commitment. Right. And a lot of people I think they're just like, I want to get the, I want to nail down the person and the commitment and the wedding and the celebration. Right. You know, there's so much more to it. I think there's a part of that that's like, I want to get the, I want to nail down the person and the commitment.

want to like signal to society that I'm like okay. Yeah, I've been I've been chosen by someone. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Or that I have like the trappings of a traditional lifestyle. Yes. Totally. You know. And but there is the constant. And then that happens constantly even with like wanting a baby, wanting a family, wanting a house, you know, like there's this milestone that you want to reach and there's like this craving for the milestone. And then I think what this listener is pointing out What a lot of people do is like, then you get there and you're like, oh, that didn't solve everything. Like, now I just have a different set of thoughts that take, like, I think the milestones create achieving the milestones create a shift in the internal dialogue that goes through your mind

every day. Like, it's one thought. Like, even for you, it's like, I want to get pregnant. I want to be a mom. I want to be a mom. I want to be a mom. Then when you get that, those thoughts are going to drift off. into the nothingness from which they came. And you're going to have an entirely new dialogue, like box of repeating thoughts that go on from that day forward. It changes the thoughts. But the frequency and the ruminating and the repetitiveness and the seeking, it comes right back.

But like with a different storyline. I don't know if that makes sense to you. No, it does. It does for sure. Yeah. So I guess the solution is to just. just live in the now? I mean, that's part of it.

I mean, you could seek the thing, but now that she kind of has the thing, right? She's like, I have the boyfriend. I guess there is a, you know, with a baby, you can't be like, oh, do I really want this? This didn't solve all my problems. Like, but she is in a place. She's not married yet where she can kind of reevaluate.

There's like a new dialogue going on here. Now it's about my, you know, ex-situation ship or it's about, is this, maybe it is about, is this the person for me? is this enough of a passionate, exciting relationship? And it might be a good moment to just stop and realize, like, not everything needs constant evaluation of what could make this better. Right. I mean, yeah, that's the hard part, though, because you're kind of like,

because you're sort of saying also, though, on two hands of like, she should evaluate it, but also maybe she shouldn't evaluate it. Yeah. Well, part of me is like if she's saying 90% of the time I was miserable, right? Then like probably this is where this is better than that. Well, I guess the question is like, is for her, is it, is this a symbol that she's not ready to be in a relationship? One option that she actually prefers the exciting life of being single and being on and off with someone or something like that.

Yes. Or does she want a relationship with someone who keeps her a little bit more at arm's reach? maybe she wants a relationship with someone who's less interested in her, which some people do want. Possible option two. Yes. Agree. Want a little more, I don't know, a different kind of power balance.

Yes. Maybe, let's say. Or is she the problem? And like she just needs to learn how to like enjoy the stability of a healthy relationship and sort of like stop doing drugs. if you think of like the yeah i mean because i do i do think of like those up and like almost the situation i just described in finding someone less interested in her like that is sort of like microdosing on the drug that is healthy eating in the ice cream totally like it's you know

yeah yes totally and i love how you laid it out because i think those are exactly her options i don't know enough about her but i think and i think this is good for all people is just to notice your seeking mind and we all do it. This is just one way that she's doing it. Notice your seeking mind and try to, again, yes, come into the moment and find the little pleasures in life that don't, when you move through your life just seeking like those big waves of dopamine hit, that's when it does seem, and this is my opinion, you're not going to have stability. You're not going to be able to have gratitude for the little things in life, you're not training your brain to relax into awe over something like a dandelion or my, you know, my boyfriend's, you know, breath while he's sleeping and

he's healthy and he's here or like something simple as like, you know, pouring a cup of coffee for each other in the morning. So when you pay attention to those little pleasures of life, I believe that's a pathway to longer lasting happiness and peace without needing to have this constant seeking. So my advice for her would be probably to go towards number three, which is just becoming conscious of your seeking mind because it's always going to be seeking something. And if you can just catch it and be like, okay, come on back to where we are. Like just notice it and kind of bring it back the way you do in a meditation.

That's why meditation is helpful because it teaches you to train your brain. Okay, I'm seeking something more exciting. I'm seeking something and maybe doing it in a way. I think it is better to seek excitement in things that are not in interpersonal relationships. Right. No, I agree. I mean, so people, you know, they take trips. They do like new activities with someone.

They try a new restaurant. Yes. Totally. There's a lot of like healthier ways to feel. a little bit of like a rush. Yeah, set a personal goal and achieve it, create something, being creative. Like there's a lot of different ways. I don't think that finding excitement that's dependent on another human being's behavior

is the best way to go. And you're right. We do learn that from childhood and attachments and all of that, that another person's presence or lack of presence is going to bring us either safety or seeking or excitement or validation. So we do need to retrain our brains to find that without looking for our partners or our family or our friends to do that. Easier said than done.

But yeah, give it a try. Try option three. Yeah. And the actionable step for option three is just noticing when you're having this seeking and craving and you don't have to push it away. And you don't have to be like, bad girl. Don't think that thought.

Don't do that. just like, okay, here it is. It doesn't, I don't have to write a story around this. I don't have to do anything when I get this feeling. I just have to notice it, notice how I feel in my body, watch my reaction to it, and it will pass by itself versus feeding it with, well, maybe we should break up or maybe I'm just not cut out for this or me. I would try that first, like just noticing it, letting it pass by,

not judging yourself for it. I would try that first for a few weeks when you have these waves of boredom, maybe you want to call it. And if that doesn't work, then you can really do some reevaluating on whether or not you're ready for the lifestyle of a secure, calm, healthy relationship. All right, let's do a betchesist. Okay, I will read the betchesist.

Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I love your podcast. Thank you both so much. for the amazing advice. I'm looking for some advice about feeling resentful, obligated about weekly dinners with my in-laws. My husband and I live in the same city as his family. His parents, brother, and grandmother are all within 20 minutes of us. We've lived here a few years now, and at some point, without really noticing it, we started doing weekly Sunday family dinners. I try my hardest not to mind the dinners because I do love his family. And once I'm there and have a glass of wine, I usually do enjoy it. But at some point, recently started feeling this

annoying resentment about having to do this every week. It could be that I feel jealous we don't see my family, a plane right away, as much or possibly just a sense of obligation and my own lack of control over the situation. Every week, we get a text along the lines of family dinner tomorrow, arrive at four for apps before dinner later. And it always rubs me the wrong way. There's no ask, just a command to come to dinner. My husband and I want to have kids soon, thinking about trying to start this fall. So now part of my spiral is thinking I should set boundaries now before we have kids so I don't get blamed for not bringing the grandkids over every Sunday. Am I wrong in thinking that sounds like a lot of work or overthinking too far ahead? I would love to know your thoughts, maybe a mantra to get me

to dinner without feeling resentful, or just to know if I'm justified in my trigger. Thank you for listening, a daughter-in-law that loves her family as well as a do nothing lazy Sunday. What do you think? Should she, does she have to go to the dinner? I mean, I think every single week, if there's a week where she doesn't feel like it, I think she could say, I'm going to sit this one out. I think that's very reasonable. I think she's right that it's probably a little deeper, that maybe she misses her family

or feels. I think there is something common that happens in relationships where you, you know, kind of feel like we both have, you each have your former self before you get into the couple. And there is kind of an urge to hold onto and to cling on to your family of origin, your traditions, your own thing that was you before you joined this new family. So I think she's probably feeling a little bit of like, wow, I'm getting very absorbed. We have this daily, weekly routine with his family and probably a little sad if she looks more deeply that maybe she doesn't have that with her side of the family. Yeah, I agree with that. And also this feeling of

like, oh, like, I don't even remember like agreeing to do this. Yes. So I do think that part's annoying that like it's here it is family dinner, come at four instead of. Right. They've absorbed her without her consent. Yes. Right. Yes. So I think she can say if she, ever really just doesn't want to go. I think that is okay. Right. I guess she wants it to be, she wants it to be more of like an opt-in situation than an opt-out.

Yes. Like, oh, are we going this week as opposed to like, we're going unless someone says we're not going? Yes. Which I could see being sort of irritating. Although she says she likes it. So I see also why she's in a conflicting space. But I think we all have that where it's like,

especially with someone else's family, you're like, you know, we said we would go to this thing. I don't really like feel like moving even though we got like it's generally pretty pleasant, but I don't want to have to commit to it. Yes, I agree. And I think the part about setting boundaries is because they're going to have kids. I think that's just your brain trying to find a reason for you to have to set this boundary when that's not the reason. Like you'll figure that out when it happens.

I don't think you need to do it now. I think there's something about this that doesn't feel great. So you're looking for a reason to justify setting the boundary. I think you can set the boundary just because if you work full time and you have two days off a week, maybe you want to spend one doing whatever you feel like doing or Sunday nights. It's like you're getting ready for the work week and you just don't feel like socializing. I think that's fine too. Yeah. And I think like, and again, I would feel weird about doing this. So it's advice that's easier to give than taste. But I think you could say, I'm just not going to go tonight. Yeah. And like you go and I'll watch my favorite show and say it would be, but I'm also thinking on the other hand. If someone, if you had like a family dinner and one of your kids, she's not coming because she doesn't like feel like it does feel like she doesn't like you. Yes. That is really hard. I think that's going to be the hardest thing. I don't think she needs to write a whole story.

around it, but I do think she needs to just work up that courage to just opt out one time and realize that it's going to be okay. And then maybe you go the next week so it doesn't seem like a thing like you're never coming again. And then, you know, maybe go two weeks in a row, then opt out another. I would just opt out sporadically to set the tone that like you're going to opt out sporadically. And I think you can let your partner go, your husband, go if he wants to go or maybe he'd enjoy an opt out every now and then as well. Right. There's like, I mean, I think weekly is too much time to have any sort of tradition.

It's like for grown adult children, that does seem like, it's a lot, right? Yeah. It's like for some people, like just doing like the like Christmas or the major holidays is like a big. Yeah, weekly is a lot. Every single week. Yeah. I agree, and I do think she can definitely set her boundary, although I think if you look at it from the parents' perspective and you envision like she's planning on having kids and maybe 20 years down the

line or 30 years down the line, she'll want to see her kids for three hours once a week when you're used to seeing, you know, like I'm in the thick of it now. I see my kids all day every day. And I can imagine at some point not seeing them like ever or like, you know, if it's like for four hours every two weeks doesn't feel like a lot when, you know. Every two weeks sounds better than every week too. Yeah, totally. I agree. I think this is for you guys to talk about as a couple first. And to say every week feels like a lot.

I do enjoy it. But I want the option to either opt out or maybe I can come every other week or. or whatever you feel comfy with. But this is the beginning of starting to have these conversations about what you feel comfortable with. But I do think her issue is not that she doesn't like it or they're not nice to her. Or I think it's one, she wants every now and then to just like lay around on a Sunday night and not have to do this.

And two, I think there is a little bit of like a jealousy or something perhaps around. It's his family mostly. Right. And not hers. Do you ever like see a friend you haven't seen in a while? and then you're like, oh, we should do this more. Yes. But then you're like, well, what is the actual?

But also like, what is the cadence that would actually? Like, you don't, we don't really want to do this every week. Right. In that moment, though, sometimes it feels like, oh, my gosh, this is great. We should do this every week. But in reality, it's not, you know, you want to be able to make the call per your mood. Right. I think as well, which is the hard part about life and socializing is like you make a plan.

You kind of have to go even if at the time of the plan, you're not. not in the mood. Right. So that is a silver lining of the every week. They can do it every week. That's true. And then you can just go when you want. Yeah. And you don't have to necessarily have it all planned out.

Yeah. I think it depends like the ability to execute this, but depend on how like, insultable the, uh, the exes parents are. Like how would, how,

how would they find it? Right. And what do you actually say? Right. That's the hard part. like, oh, she's, you know, she just, I guess he could say she just felt like having a lazy Sunday. Right. I don't think that's the most offensive thing.

If this is happening every week, it's different if, like you said, if it's Christmas and they're like, oh, she just felt like having a lazy day. Right. It's like, yeah. That's not okay. Is that what you would say? I just kind of feel like I'm going to relax here. Yeah. I think you could say, you know, there's an urge to kind of make up a problem.

Right. that like staying home would fix like, ah, I'm stressed about the week or I don't, not feeling great or whatever. I wouldn't go that route. It is hard. It's very tempting to just say,

I'll see you guys next week. I just kind of feel like lounging around. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's like, that's, that's an art if you can figure out how to do that.

Yeah. I need to practice that again. I told you. We've talked about this with like the, I don't want to babysit your kids email. Yes. Like saying no. thing no without lying is tough. It is tough. And I think once she establishes this, I think it's a big lift in the beginning. But once she sort of establishes this, I think it will turn into more like, oh, is she coming this week or not? Like everyone's going to kind of wrap their heads around the fact that sometimes she comes and sometimes she doesn't or maybe sometimes the husband goes and sometimes he doesn't or whatever the case might be. But I think the hard work is going to be.

in the beginning and in setting the tone. But flip side, right? We always like to give play devil's advocate. They're cooking. They're cleaning. You don't have to worry about anything. And I do think once you have kids, it might be nice to, you know, have everything done, the cooking, the cleaning, have an extra set of hands to help you.

So that part I would just realize is you trying to find an excuse to set this boundary when you don't really need that. you can set this boundary. Every week, I don't think you have to go every single week. Yeah, she might like it. All right. Let's do an intentions email. I'll read it. Hi, Trudana and Dr. Naomi, thank you for all you do. I'm writing in for your advice on navigating family relationships that have transformed somewhat since my dad passed away. My mom has developed or finally revealed the lack of warm feelings she has for my dad's side of the family since he died. And my sister seems happy to follow suit. I feel alone in my efforts to maintain the relationships with his family, I know he would have wanted.

One in particular presents challenges. My aunt has struggled with her sobriety since he died, is in the habit of only talking to me about the fact that he is dead instead of the millions of other things we could discuss. And because he died on a holiday that changes dates every year, sends me bummer messages to mark the anniversary on the wrong day. To top it off, her messages are all just statements that end with a dot, dot, dot. Whenever I bring this up to my family for advice,

their advice is not to respond because they don't when they receive messages. It seems so cold considering her fragility and after years of my dad spending holidays apart from his side of the family isn't responding the least we could do. What intention can I said to approach my aunt and uncle's messages with less obligation to respond and more compassion than my current, well, what the fuck am I supposed to say to this? Is it fair for me to ask my mom and sister to chip in a bit on these relationships? How do I do that when they're so stubbornly on the same page? Sincerely, yours, mine, and our crazy relatives.

Yeah. I think she's longing for someone to share in the responsibility for sort of taking care of the aunt and uncle's emotions. I think she's going to be banging her head against the wall if she's going to try to convince them. She has to make up her own mind. How does she want to handle these messages? I don't think she could say, hey, I'm going to forward you this text so that you can then respond. I also don't think them answer them get.

If they got those text messages, it would still be just as annoying for her. It's not like you know who else someone is texting when they're texting. Right. Exactly. It's stuff. My initial thought here, and I get this, is sometimes when it's the same idea that we talk about when someone's going through something hard. A lot of times it's hard for us.

us to sit with them because we think we need to have the words for it. Like we need to find something to say that feels helpful and doesn't make it worse. That's very mentally and emotionally draining for her. So I think, and it's funny because I feel like it's kind of an older person thing to do, but it makes sense, like maybe just sending an emoji or sending, you know, like a heart emoji or sending one of those little gifts that's like, you know, remember we had the listener that was getting those like condolences, like, whatever it is, like a cat like curled up. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like some cheesy, but it has its place because I think in this place, maybe sending something like that that's like a little message. of I read this. Yeah. Right. I read this.

I feel you. And I think she genuinely can have compassion. I think she does have compassion for her aunt. But it is a little draining when she's sending these statements with a dot, dot, dot, dot that like she has to come up with some kind of a verbal response to a joint grief. I think she, they're, the aunt and uncle are trying to share in their grief with someone that they know is grieving also. So I don't think it's bad what they're doing. I just think it's probably exhausting if it catches you off guard or you don't know, you don't have the words for how to respond.

So I think if you can have a couple of texting kind of go to either a little picture or an emoji or something that you can send that's like, I feel you. I'm sad to, but I don't really have the words to like have a dialogue about this right now, but I'm not ignoring you either. Right. Yeah, no, I guess that's, I think that's the way to do it. It's just annoying because it's like, it feels like, and I get where she's coming from where it's like, there's no end here.

I'm just going to like get these text messages until like forever. And then the thing about a text is it kind of just like comes. And I get this too where it's like I feel like I need to respond to every text text message that I get. And then when you get one that you don't really, you get one with a message where you don't feel like answering it. it kind of just like lingers annoyingly in the back of your head until you answer it. And then it's and the thing about text for rather than phone calls or any other medium is

you just kind of get it when you're like not in a mood to get it. Just kind of like hits you randomly whenever the other person feels like sending it. So it is hard. And I think that I, you know, I relate to you don't want to be rude. You don't want to be like abandoning someone. But you also don't want to be responsible for every fleeting thought that they have, that they feel like sending to you. Yes.

And I think this situation is complicated by the fact that she probably has, she says in the, in the email, I know my dad would have wanted, like, for her to have a relationship with his sister and be nice to her, yeah. Be compassionate and not cut them out and even says something like he spent holidays away from them his entire life. So there seems to be an underlying. dynamic of the mom not being super supportive of his relationship with his family. And now this listener is sort of picking up the pieces for, you know, that they exist and they have

feelings and they felt closeness to her dad. And so there's, I think, a lot of guilt there too from her and doing what, you know, her dad would have wanted. And yeah, guilt is one way to say it. you can also say like a reminder for compassion. You know, maybe that guilt is, guilt is a negative,

has a negative connotation, but I think there is this reminder from her dad in the back of her mind that he would like for her to find that compassionate part of herself and give a little bit. And I don't think sending like a two hearts emoji or a little, you know, a little picture of something sweet that says like, I see you, we're both in pain. Right.

Is that big of an ask? If it doesn't work and that seems like it's getting, the frequency of this is becoming uncomfortable for you, that's a different story, right? We don't know how frequently this is happening. It does sound like maybe her dad, the anniversary of her dad's passing was recently. I don't know if it was like Memorial Day is one of those holidays

where it's like, oh, it could be a different day every year. and it's annoying that she texted her like on the wrong day. So she's grieving on the day. Right. And then she's getting reminders. And then she's grieving. And then she's also. Right.

And she probably also feels like not only am I grieving now, but I have to like comfort you when we're not that close. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So I think this is complicated.

I think this is hard. I could see why she's feeling this. But I think if one, this is probably. when she wrote this, it was probably like the wave of this was huge. So I think just like letting this wave patiently subside if the anniversary recently happened, you know, kind of give it some time to play out. Maybe your aunt and uncle are a little bit more triggered than usual around the anniversary,

which does tend to happen. But I also think you can just, if you can bring yourself to just shoot her back, You can have a, you know, four or five different tools in your arsenal. And if you're not really feeling genuinely like you have the words or you want to get into it with her, you can just send out a quick something over text. Something that's like an expression of the heart where you don't necessarily need to have verbal dialogue. Because I think that's the part that seems pretty exhausting. And you don't have to answer right away. Sometimes if you get people like a few hours to like, after they've been.

texted you, they're already like over the emotion that they felt when they were texting you. I totally agree. I don't think you need to be in a rush. I think you can respond when you want to. And I think you can respond with anything that feels like it's just a connection. I think all that your dad would have really wanted is for you to maintain some type of connection. So that could be with an emoji, with a little message, whatever it is. It doesn't have to be a big verbal dialogue. And if you'd like to bring this relationship with your aunt and uncle beyond the shared grief, which it sounds like right now, that's the bulk of the relationship, you can maybe initiate some of that, which might make you feel a little bit better about not having the association

with your aunt and uncle all about grieving your dad. If you can reach out with, oh, hey, I did this today or this is what's going in my life, then maybe they'll bite the bait that we can talk about other things. besides your dad. Right. That might make this feel better. Better than like every time I hear from her there's like a grief association. Right.

Then that's the whole vibe you get. I agree. So do you have an intention that she can say when she gets these annoying texts? Yeah. I guess it depends what she decides to do. But I think if she does take our advice or my advice probably and sort of lean in with like just a quick, something of like, I see you, I'm compassionate. I wrote, I honor my dad by choosing compassion even when I don't have the words. That's nice. So I don't think she needs to find the words to comfort her.

Just find some gesture of compassion connection. I think that's what this is about. I like that. Let's do some triggers. Right. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I have it triggered. I need you guys to weigh in on My husband and I have a four-month-old, and we were talking about celebrating Father's Day this year. I shared I could offer to cook his favorite meal. We could order in or go out. He mentioned that it was a big tradition for dads to go to golf on Father's Day. He's a huge golfer and loves being out on the course. I was extremely triggered by this.

Golf takes anywhere from six to eight hours, and I'm so hurt that he would want to spend his first Father's Day away from his family. He said it's super common to go golfing in the morning and then spend the evening together. My mind was blown. I'm Hispanic. He's not. And the idea of spending any holiday away from your immediate family is a little odd to me. He doesn't see it. He says it's not personal and just something he would like to do on the day before we celebrate together.

I'm equating this to me wanting a spa day on my first Mother's Day with my girlfriends and ditching him and baby. I would never. On Mother's Day, we enjoyed a chill day at home together. Please help, wife of a golf dad. I have to say, I see where he's coming from. I feel like this, I get it. I mean, again, I don't want to speak on like any like Hispanic traditions or like if that's maybe culturally not a thing where she's from.

But like as someone maybe doesn't have those cultural things in the background, I'm like the whole point of Father's Day or Mother's Day is that like it's their day and they can pick how they want to do it. And like for most people and it's funny, it's like the irony of Mother's Day and Father's Day is that most. people like what they want most is like a break from their kids. Yes, I do think that's a big part of it is like just it's your day. It's like a yes day for you. You get to choose what you want to do. I do think if you choose, if a mother or father chose to spend the entire day without their children, I think that would be different.

But I do think a combo of like me time to like celebrate me as a parent, father. and a little bit of time with the family. I think it's fine. I get where she's coming from. Like she's saying I would never want to be away from my, like, it's a day that I celebrate being with my child, my family. But I think it's really, it is pretty common. And this is, it's tough because I do think it's a cultural.

Right. And I think both people would be right. I don't think there's like a better way to spend the day. I think if she did want to go to a spa on Mother's Day, like that would be great. Like I don't think that would be like she said I think in her mind that would be like blasphemous but yeah I get where it's like oh you want to spend a holiday away for me it feels insulting right but it's not like he wants to go golfing on Christmas I don't right yes I get yeah it's hard because she's going to be you know I guess if it really is six to eight hours that's like

the majority of the day so she's basically going to be with their child on Father's Day and then come home and like they're going to be together for dinner time. But I don't think this is a, I wouldn't say this is hugely triggering. I think she can offer what to me, which would be ideal is for her to come with the baby, she handles the baby and he can kind of come in and get kisses and snuggles and whatever he wants like periodically throughout his golf day. I guess maybe if he's playing with all the men and his family and that's just kind of like what they do.

Right. I mean, she could do that. or her, I would like not be interested of that. Yeah, that seems like maybe more annoying for her. But I think it, you know, it could be nice to kind of have them there, but also be able to be like, okay, I'm

like going to go for the next hour. I'm going to do this and then I'll come back and say hi. But yeah, I wouldn't put this hugely triggering. I get it. And I could see if he came like if he left at seven in the morning and came back like six o'clock at night, that's kind of

annoying. Yeah. It's funny. Because like I think that this kind of stuff happens with couples where, you know, there's no like right answer, but you're like the tradition of how you've kind of done the thing makes you feel a certain way. Even if it's not really like logical or illogical. Like I had that with Mike and gifts where like he very much is like if you get it like if it's your birth, you get your birthday gift like on your birthday. Like there's no giving the birthday gift earlier or like. he's like that with like the holidays too like he wants his Christmas gift like on Christmas on Christmas and I'm like that seems kind of stupid not not as practical not as practical because I'm like okay so for instance like his birthday is in July is at the end of July and he wants like golf lessons

and I'm like why would you wait until the end of summer to get the golf lessons just because that's when your birthday is like why wouldn't I just buy them for you now he's like because that's not how like the birthdays work. And I'm like, all right. So we had this discussion because I, on the flip side, he once got me like a travel backpack and I had it for like the holidays.

And I had a trip in early December. And I wanted the bag. Right. For the trip. And he was like, no. Right. So I was like, all right. It's not time.

So my, our compromise on this was like, for you, you'll, that's what you want. So you'll get your gift on your birthday. That's not what I want. I want.

when it's most practical. So, you know, I could see the merit in both. And for this, it's maybe like, okay, for Mother's Day, he doesn't go anywhere. Right. I want the whole day with both of you guys. And yeah, totally. Although I kind of see Mike's perspective. Because if you give the gift before the day, then on the day, there's like nothing's

that special about the day. That's why I said on the day, I'd like a lovely card. Right. I get a dinner and a card. or something like that. Like, do you know what I mean? And he's like, I guess he doesn't care about cards as much as I do. Right.

So for you, he's kind of like, if you give me my gift two weeks before my birthday, then like you just wake up and say happy birthday and that's the day. Right. It just seems so impractical to me for that kind of thing. But again, if like I'm kind of like, that's what you want, I don't get it, but it's what you want. Right. We'll give you what you want.

I think for holidays that are supposed to be about the other person, like this one is the whole, it's not like he's picking a new, he's not picking Thanksgiving, he's not picking a neutral holiday, he's picking the holiday that's supposed to be about him. I think she should give it to him. I would give this, I'd give this like a three and a half because I think it's the first father's day and she's probably feeling right. Getting used to it. And I could see, I guess, where she's like, I wanted to spend my whole day with you, my special day and you want to spend your whole special day, not with me. Yes, with someone else.

Totally. And the other hard part about Mother's Day and Father's Day is like, if you are a parent, it's like you are the father, but you also have a father. So like you want to be part of that person's tradition and that person's day. So like his dad's going to go golfing and he's not going to get to be with his son. Right. So like if he doesn't go. So now it's kind of like, well, I've been the son that's had this tradition.

with my dad and now I have to remove myself. So I think that's a big part. That's what makes Mother's Day and Father's Day kind of complicated because when you are a parent, because you want what you want, but you also have an obligation to your own parent and grandparent and, you know, whatever other, you know, dynamics you have in your family. So I think that makes it a little bit difficult. And I would have some compassion there that he probably doesn't want to rip apart. his dad's father's day tradition.

Right. So just for the purpose of like, okay, so I could, you know, sit at home and like feed my kid mash banana. Yeah. No, I get them. And he probably kind of just wants to go and have a break if he's a four-month-old, I would imagine. Totally. Yeah. I would give this a two.

I think it's going to take some getting used to. But yeah, I think you could also definitely use part of your day on Mother's Day if you wanted to for a little break. I don't think that's terrible either. All right. Let's do one more. I'll read it. I love this one. I knew you would.

Hi, Trudana and Dr. Naomi. Love your podcast. I've been a loyal listener since day one. My Tuesdays are made better with both of you in them. So sweet. Backstory for context. My boyfriend and I have been dating for a little under a year. We met on the apps and had a modern day courting from talking, dating, exclusivity,

and finally a relationship. For him, asking me to be his girlfriend was a, big moment and not to be taken lightly. He was dating with the intention to marry and ultimately emulate his parents' successful 30-plus year marriage. When he did finally ask, he did it big. We went to a hibachi restaurant where after the main meal was served, he had a dessert brought out with a bouquet of roses and a custom fortune cookie. When I opened it, it read, I love you. Will you be mine? Of course, I said yes, and it was one of the most special moments of our relationship. Maybe my life. What girl doesn't dream of this. Fast forward to now. I'm moving into the home that he owns. We both work

from home and require separate offices. However, he is out of the house some days to visit project sites or meet with clients. For my office, we've been cleaning out his spare bedroom, aka storage room, the trigger. With my boyfriend gone for the day, I trudged forward with the task of cleaning out the closet, in which I found old scrapbooks that his ex, they were together for six years and his only previous relationship had made him. He told me ahead of time about these scrapbooks and that he'd throw them out after he got home. So that was not the triggering part. Despite my better judgment, curiosity got the best of me and I started flipping through the pages. I came across a page with pictures of both of them at a habachi restaurant, roses under her arm and a fortune cookie that read,

I love you. Will you go out with me? Essentially, my boyfriend recycled what I thought was a completely unique way to ask me out. How triggered can I be? Sincerely, this fortune has already been used, Betch. Oof. This is a crazy. Yeah, this is like a nine. This is triggering if I were, and to not know.

Like using the same ring. Oh my gosh, totally. I mean, that's even like almost better. Yeah. Not as bad because a ring is really expensive and like there's a practical. reason behind it like oh gosh yeah I would be I would be really triggered I mean like you did it I understand in his head he's like she's not going to know this worked out really well last time it was a great idea like I can see why he would think of doing it I don't think it's like the most obscene

thing especially if he does these things big but like come on oh my gosh gosh, no. It is weird. Like, in theory, they were together for a long time. He, you know, had strong feelings. They have strong, you know, like, it's, in theory, it's not a big deal, but there's something that just hits wrong about that she, you know, she felt like he came up with this idea for her. Right. He came up with this idea for someone else with, with someone else in his heart when he had this idea. So I think that's the part that and that he didn't tell her. Like, oh gosh, I could imagine. Yeah, I guess he's not going to tell her. Right. I think like maybe men think of romance more as like the gesture. And I don't want to mean, I don't want to generalize. But I think in this

scenario, he was more like the romance is in the gesture. And to me, the romance. And that's why I like a card because I'm like a well thought out nicely written card. Because I'm like a well thought out nicely written card. I'm like the romance is in the specificity to like me. Like I want you to tell me what about me is special to you. And I think that like that's sort of like indicative symbolically here that it was not about it was not about her at all. It wasn't like she loves habachi or something. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I do think that there is there are some people. that will reuse. I don't think this is the first time someone's like reused a romantic gesture because I think for some people it's kind of like,

this is a romantic gesture and anyone's going to like this. Like without the concept of there's something that feels special about, I inspired you. Yes. To come up with this idea. This says this is about me more than this is about you. Yes. I think that's very clear in this scenario.

Yeah. Well, people do this all the time, like with a restaurant. Yeah. Like you took me to the same place and you took her. And but I think for some people, they're like, I found it. I found the spot. Yeah. It's almost like the guy has like their lucky shirt where it's like I wore this shirt.

I got a lot of positive reinforcement. I'm going to wear this shirt again. Right. Like this shirt works for me. This gesture works for me. This restaurant. Girls love this restaurant. Yes.

So I guess I'm saying I get why he did it. But I think the hurtful part of it is that it wasn't personal. Could she say something? She'd have to say something. You have to, especially because I hear from people all the time. It's like I found out something my significant other did. And I found out in a way that I shouldn't have found out by like going through their phone or snooping through their stuff.

And then you kind of have to lay in the bed you made sometimes without if unless you want to confess. I would look through the scrapbooks. I'm cleaning them out. Of course, I'm going to look. Right. And it's like a scrapbook. It's not a journal.

It's not like a diary. Yeah, it's like looking through someone's Facebook like photos. Right. Yeah, I think she could say something. Maybe give him a chance to redeem himself with another romantic gesture that's just for you. And then I'd have to like make fun of it constantly for the next few years. I'd be like, if you proposed, I'd have to be like, have you done this with anyone else? like is this the is this I don't think it's a deal breaker I don't think it's like oh she needs to

break up with him right but I do think I would be very irritated for a bit yeah and it wasn't a marriage proposal right most people don't even that's the other part it's not even like he's like I it was I can't tell if that makes it better or worse because it's like he didn't need to do this it's not like she was like where is my elaborate will you be my girlfriend and like suggestion. Yeah, he got a great reaction the first time and he was just like, all right, I'm going to reuse this. It was a little lazy.

The whole thing, it's crazy. The whole thing. It was lazy. It was like he got a big bang. It probably cost him $10 on the fortune cookie, personalized fortune cookie, and they were going to go out to dinner anyway. And he got a great reaction.

And he was like, all right, repeat. Let's do that again. That worked really well the first time. But he needs to know this cannot happen again. Yes. Why is her unacceptable. Yes. You should just let him know. And yeah, every time you guys order Chinese food from now until eternity, he's going to get a, oh, you want to bring one over to Alice? Where's her cookie? I'd give it a seven. It's a great story though. It's a great story. You just have to make fun of it and realize that he's got he's got to learn the hard way that that was a joke and he can like you will find out. Right. But it also goes to show you that most romantic gestures, positive or negative are not about you. Or like lack thereof. Do you know what I mean? Like I think I've learned this too. It's like someone who's like Mike Sperry into Valentine's Day. He like really likes it. He like goes. He goes. was like an extra mom. But I'm like,

I also know that like, it's not like he's very into Valentine's day because of me. He's just like into Valentine's Day and like, yeah, I'm sure he was into Valentine's day with his ex-girlfriend too. Like. Right. Right.

And that's again, that's why I demand a card because it must be written about me. Yes. It's true. But it's like, I totally get it. And I'm also like he was, when I first met him,

he wasn't good at cards. That also wasn't personal. You know what I mean? Like at first you get upset. I remember the first card I got. from him. It was like pretty generic and joking. And I didn't like it. And then I'm like, and I realized it's not, again, that's not, it's not like he doesn't like me. He's just not a writer. And then we, we've changed that. And now, now he sits with his pen trembling as you stare over his shoulder. Exactly. You know, doing six straps. Whipping his back. Exactly how I like my romance.

It's made with fear. But no, what I'm saying. Like, I think it's like with all this stuff. it all feels so personal. And this, this feels really bad because it feels like, like it would have been personal in a good way and it was actually done to someone else.

But anyone who's like, does romantic nice things probably has done them with someone else too. Yes. But look, I do think for their relationship, this can be a growth moment. She can calmly express to him

why this hurt her feelings, why she felt bad when she heard it, and communicate what a romantic gesture would be what about that would be meaningful going forward where you can say it's something you know I'd appreciate it if you're going to do that and I love the fact that you're romantic and positive and I love the fact because what you don't want to do is scare him away from ever trying to be romantic ever again but just letting him know I I loved the fact that you did this it was a great idea but going forward I'd love it to be a little bit more unique to you and I

to our relationship or to me, and that would make it feel more meaningful. I think, I don't know how old they are, but I think this, he's probably learning how to do this versus just like the Pavlov's dog that's like, ooh, I got a treat. That was good. Do it again. Right. You know, I think he needs to evolve to something else. And this is how they learn.

So take some breaths, be calm, communicate. And hopefully he can give you another gesture on another. occasion that feels more personal. Yeah, I wouldn't want to be this guy coming home from his site visit. Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, good luck. Great episode. As always, we solved a lot of problems. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby. Editing by Jazz Apados. Guest booking by Allie Friedlander and send your emails to Oversharing at Betches.com.