Oversharing - I’m Sick Of Using My Vacation Days On Trips With My Husband’s Family

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Dr. Naomi tells Jordana about her staycation date night, and the importance of alone time with your partner when you have kids. Our Overshare comes from a Betch who has a strained relationship with her father and is considering reunification therapy. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener feeling stressed about vacation planning with her husband and his family. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for coping with being your baby’s 2nd favorite parent. And we’re feeling triggered by ghosts of exes past and boyfriends who invite friends on a trip that was supposed to be romantic. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. So great to be back with you.

We're recording this fresh on a Monday morning. Are you feeling? I'm feeling good. I prefer Monday mornings. is my favorite time to chat with you. I feel refreshed. I had a good weekend. So our little sister, Shira, is in town visiting.

Oh, she's still there. Yeah, she's here. So we spent the weekend together, and she gave us a Saturday date, Jeff and I alone, which we haven't had. So she earned her keep. She earned her keep. She gave us a very long date.

So I realized how long of a date? She took the kids out at like two. Right. And then we like had the whole afternoon to ourselves, like just in the house alone, kind of little staycation vibes. It was really nice out. We went outside. We did like, I mean, so we did like a little cold plunge in the pool because it was nice out,

but the pool was still really cold. And then we like went in the hot tub. We had like a little staycation at home. And what I realize is just like, and this I recommend to parents that want alone time with kids. We usually do the thing we're like, we'll get our babysitter right before we're about to walk out the door for dinner. Right. So like we get the babysitter. We go to dinner.

We come home. We like gorge ourselves on food, have drinks, come home. And then it's like, it's late. We're tired. Right. Sometimes intimacy doesn't happen because it's like, I'm full. I just had like a big meal. I'm tired. I'm tired. It's like 10.30. 11. Yes. I just want to like get home and get my pajamas on. I don't remember the movie it was,

but Jeff always jokes. I think it was, I'm not going to remember it now, but it's kind of like the rush, like the husband when he sees the wife like get the sweats on and there's like slow motion like tying the knot to the sweats and it's like sex is over. Like it's not happening at that moment. like once the sweats go on. Yeah. So I think there's this fantasy a lot of times with date night that like you're going to get dressed and go out and have dinner and come home and be romantic. And like the kids are home at that point.

Like they're asleep, but they're in the house. So anyway, long story short, my tip is to do like a reverse date night where you kind of. Yes. Yes. What we did which was like we had like from two to I don't know, we probably. we left for dinner at like 6.30. So from 2 to 6.30, we had the house alone. We hung out. There was nobody there. Then we like got dressed, went out to dinner, had our dinner and came home. We went out for music. We had like a really nice night. But by the time we got back, it was late.

And we have to be up with the kids in the morning. So we like came home and went to sleep. But we had our alone time intimacy before the date. I like that. You're making me very excited to move to my house, no kids. Yeah. That's just going to be my life every day. Yeah, you might not exactly relate to this issue, but it's like having sex when there are other people in the house is not the same. It's like a very different.

It's just different. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's great. You know, plus, I mean, Lila's, what, 12 now? Yeah. Right?

Can she watch them? Like, every week? Why don't she take them, take them away? Oh, gosh. No. I mean, she technically could. Like, how old are you in your babysitting? Like, 13, 12?

She would be great at babysitting other people's kids, but she fights a lot with her brother. Like, they bicker, they get into it, they got on each other's nerves. She would be wonderful at babysitting someone else's kids, but it would be okay, but it wouldn't be great. And she can't like, you know, like, Shira took, them out. They went out to dinner. They like did some stuff, like away from the house. Like, how long can they go to the playground of the street, you know? Yeah. No, I totally get that. And then come running in the door screaming. She hit me. She said this. It's like that nothing

less of an aphrodisiac than like bickering children, screaming children, screaming and breaking down the door. That's fair. Well, I'm glad you got a nice little weekend. I'm sure. Did you like seeing Shira too? Yeah. That was. That was the secondary effect. No, it was really, she loves the kids. They love her. It's really, really sweet to see them spending time together. They watch young Sheldon and, you know, all their little shows that they watch together.

It's really cute. That's fun. All right. Next time I visit, I'll give you another day also. Oh, that was great. Where did I take them last time I was there? Mike and I took them to Walmart. Oh, yeah.

It's a big day. Yeah. Day out at Walmart. Yeah. No. It's, it's true. It was actually really fun. And you know, it's funny.

And we've talked about this before. Like, usually when people come, I'm not big on, like, airport pickups. Right. I mean, I think in the age of Uber, I think airport pickups unnecessary. Yes. I kind of agree because it's like now I'm, I have to drive 40 minutes to the airport, wait around, whatever, how long. Airport drop off, maybe, maybe airport drop off, not airport pickup. What's the difference to you?

Drop off. I can drop you off and then leave immediately. Like, I'm not, we're not coordinating. Find each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When should I leave? Do I leave when you land? I don't know.

I don't ever want, Mike has actually offered to pick me up from the airport before. And I was like, no, because like, I'd rather. I don't want to do that to you. No, that wasn't why. I was like, I would rather pay and have someone there exactly when I want them. Right. Because I don't want you, because you're not going to want to wait there. So then I'm going to have to wait.

I'm like, I'd rather, it's just not, to me, it's like, it's like, like not, it's a, it's bigger problem than it would be solving. But drop off is nice. Totally. Although I will say the Dallas airport, they don't, they're not like as intense about like you can't, like in New York airports, if you're waiting in the pickup area for more than like 30 seconds, they scream at you. They start honk. All right, there's honking, they're screaming. There's like someone who's like going to tow your car. And in Dallas, it's like you pull up. They're open the trunk. They're having a tailgate waiting for the person to come out from there. grilling hot dogs, beers, no.

But they don't give you a hard time about waiting on the side. So it's not as bad. But so I'm not really a big, typically a big fan of pickup. But I did go and pick her up. One, as a thank you for this big long date that she was going to give us. And two, because it's like, it is a little bit of a nice, like, we're sitting and we're having a conversation, especially because I do have the kids. And it was like good alone time that we got to.

actually sit in chat. So I was happy that I did it, but I did say probably not going to happen again. Okay. Well, I'll keep that in mind. But again, I don't like an airport pickup. So yeah, good with it. All right. All right. Should we get into our show? Yes. Now that everyone knows the logistics of the weekend. Yeah. And the pickups. That sounds fun. Let's get into it. I'll read our first overshare. If you have a voicemail, you can call us at 646363636294. Or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. Love you both, and thank you for all you do. I'll get right into it. I've been estranged from my dad for over a year. He and my mom just finalized their divorce after being separated for over two years. My dad has a massive temper, never violent,

but definitely intimidating and threatening, as well as true narcissistic tendencies. He cheated on my mom with a 34-year-old woman who he's still with. I'm 28. I have not spoken to my dad in earnest for over a year, aside from some texts here and there, where I'm basically reiterating that I don't want to speak to him while he's in a relationship with his girlfriend. This week, he reached out to me to let me know that he would like to pursue reunification therapy with me, which gave me a little glimmer of hope

that maybe we'll have some sort of relationship in the future. I shouldn't have been surprised when I realized that the therapist he chose is only 24 years old. Graduated undergrad in 2022 and is attractive. I've attached pics. She is indeed attractive. Yeah. The pictures are a lot.

Super cute. Yes. I feel bad that her age makes me uncomfortable because I'm sure she's a great person and therapist, but it seems like my dad chose her specifically because he wants to feel in control of the meetings. He's had therapists in the past who have called him out on his myriad bad behavior, and he has either quit or been fired by them. I'm not feeling confident that this therapist has the experience needed to deal with the complicated dynamics of our estrangement, let alone my dad's manipulative and bullish behavior.

I'm not even totally sure I want to have a relationship with my dad. This goes back beyond the past few years, but trying to be as brief as possible. But it feels wrong not to try. My concern is that I'll be on high alert during these meetings for signs of him trying to manipulate me and the therapist, losing my voice in agency, and being me to feel like I've been acting irrationally by not speaking to him for the past year, even though everyone in my life, including his own parents, support me in this. I want to feel relaxed and safe in a therapist's office, and I worry about her age and inexperienced. will prevent me from being able to focus on the already taxing task of trying to build back a

relationship with my dad. Should I tell my dad I think his choice in therapist is inappropriate? Is his choice inappropriate? My impulse is to send him the screenshots I send to you all and say, seriously, this is the therapist you picked? But that probably isn't going to move the needle in a positive direction. If I do go through with these meetings, is there anything I can do on my end to make them more productive if he tries to bulldoze?

Or is this totally a lost cause? Thanks for any thoughts and advice, sincerely, and ageist betch, I guess. And then she sent some screenshots of the person's Facebook page and her bio, I guess, on her website of the therapist. And I mean, I do agree, it does, she does seem quite young. I mean, it's kind of a good little reminder that if you are a therapist or going to be a therapist, you probably want to be a little more private. Just because, you know, I've tried to find my therapist on social media. And I was, like, thrilled that I could not find him. Right.

Right. Not much there. Totally. So, I mean, she's right. She is young. So, I mean, this isn't about that. Yeah. The age is one piece.

Yeah. The age is one piece, but I think she included the picks because she's kind of like, you know, she just seems. It's one thing if someone's young and they have like a professional kind of vibe on social media. But she's young. She's got like the midriff with the short dress and the cowboy hat. You know, like she's, you know. Right. She's looking cute.

That's her. She doesn't look like your typical therapist if you were to Google therapist. Right. So that's probably what's bugging her on top of just the age. But I do get this. And I, unfortunately, I think there is a certain amount of wisdom that comes with age as a therapist. I'm not saying that you can't be an amazing 24-year-old therapists, like have the inherent qualities of empathy

and even being really insightful and intelligent and being able to analyze a situation. But I do think there is something that comes with experience. And I can actually think about when I was young. Unfortunately, just the way that our society is that there is like a bit of a power dynamic that is a little off balance with a 24-year-old brand-new therapist and like a 55, 60-year-old, like, adult man.

Right. That's like not, that is harder for someone who's less experienced to probably handle. So I don't think her concerns are totally unfounded. I could see where she's coming from. I mean, it must be tough for the therapy, because it's kind of like, how do you get the experience? You have to be the therapist, but you're like not that good of a therapist

because you don't have the experience. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think there's, and I'm not saying that a 24-year-old therapist can't be a great match potentially in some regard for like a 60-year-old man, but maybe not with this personality dynamic that she's talking about.

Or maybe she would be great at it, but I think that is something that probably comes with experience is having that happen to you enough times and being able to, you can be a great therapist and be somewhat conflict avoidant to an extent. She would need to really be able

to call this person out and have that real strength in knowing that he's trying to manipulate or becoming aware of that dynamic. Right. Which is possible that she does. It's very possible. I'm not saying to rule this out.

She could be amazing. I think she's also probably a little triggered by her because his girlfriend's relatively young, and that's like probably her one of her issues with him is that he left their mom for I'm assuming much younger woman if she's 28

he would assume he's at least probably 50 at least yeah um at least and you know dating a woman who's 34 so maybe that feels like more of an offense to the mom like he traded her in for a newer model kind of thing um

so it's like touching her trigger as well as just the therapist being young. Yeah, I could see being triggered by this, especially because it's like they like get to seem like they're making an effort, but like you kind of know. And this happens a lot, I think, when you complain about your parents to people is like, if they don't really know them,

it doesn't sound that bad or it doesn't sound like it's like they're doing anything wrong. But if you know who they are and like their tendencies, you're often kind of having to be like, No, like this isn't, this isn't just like a coincidence. Like, if you knew this person, you'd know that they're doing this purposely. Totally. I totally agree with that. I have a lot of friends where, like, they'll complain about their parent. And then I'm like, you're being kind of harsh.

Like, they don't really seem that bad. And then I get around them and there's like these subtleties, these little nuanced, passive things that I'm like, oh, okay. Right. After years and years and years of this, I can see how you ended up where you are. being very skeptical. No, totally. So I get her dilemma.

It seems like she said they haven't really talked in two years. She hasn't spoken to him in earnest for over a year, aside from text here and there. And the other part of this that's interesting, I mean, there's a lot to unpack here, I think. But the other part of this is interesting. We get a few emails about this. I actually see these quite commonly in our inbox.

Are people who have had like one of their parents, is unfaithful. And they are not really sure what their right is in the relationship and if they're allowed to be mad or how they should place it. Totally. So I think that's another added layer

to this whole dynamic. Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's certainly loyalty stuff that comes into play, but then there's this, on the flip side, it's like, but you're, we're all adults here. Like, I don't need to. And a lot of,

times like the decision has been made. You know, it's not like I can convince you out of it or to do something different. So what am I, what change am I trying to make? And I think your feelings are, you know, the feelings of anger are valid. This person's hurt someone that you love very much when that happens. And so it's really normal to be. And hurt you, I guess, by breaking up the dynamic of the family that you originally had. Like it does not, it doesn't, it's not like completely estranged. It's like if your friend's husband cheats on her. Yes. Like this is like your family unit that's being disrupted. Totally. Yeah. I think you're really valid in being angry. But I guess the question. And estrangement is such an interesting topic, which I would love to talk

more about because it's really pretty common that people are estranged or like semi-estranged from family members. And I put this in semi-estranged, I feel like. Yeah. Fuck it. This seems like more simple. Like they are talking, he's at least reaching out with potential therapist. There's like occasional texts here and there. Right. It's very strained, but not a strange relationship. And it's tough because a lot of times, you know, I think about this personally a lot

because of my sort of like Buddhist leaning, accepting the reality of what's unfolding. Right. So the reality of what's unfolding is this is the direction. that your family is taking, and this is how things are changing, right? Like, you know, it's a new season, and this is like where your dad decided he wants to go with his life, which is, you know, you can't really fight against it. So there's that one part of me that's like, we need to just learn how to accept and tolerate the reality that's unfolding in front of us.

Right. Then obviously the flip side is, but this makes me really hurt and angry and sad and I have all those feelings. So I think human nature is like, I want to, I don't want to have to, you just get to go on your merry way with your new girlfriend. And I have to be the one that's hurt and angry and sad and all that. And I don't put any of that on you.

And I can be around you without being, having all of that drudged up. And then you're like, I don't like the feeling of having that dredged up. So I'm just not going to be around you. that's when it turns into. And maybe you want to punish them a little bit too. I think that's probably like this is like, you know,

there's a consequence for what you've done. Yes. Yeah. Yep. So it's tough because what are you really getting out of punishing this person? But I, so coming back full circle to this therapy situation, I think in some ways it might be great to have this therapist, depending on how much this listener trusts her own abilities to do,

to like, you know, speak her mind and be assertive and really have the therapy almost be like a microcosm of their lives, their lives together. If she feels like he's a bully and he's going to manipulate and that's something that he's done. Right. If he's doing it right in front of her with the therapist, it's a great moment to be like, and you're doing it again right now. And this is why I don't trust to move forward in a relationship with you because you're not really changing. You're displaying the exact behavior that's a turnoff to me in this moment with this young therapist. And maybe I feel like her. The listener feels like the therapist, like being manipulated or like, you know.

So I think it would be a really interesting dynamic. And if she is good at what she does, this 24-year-old therapist, she'll use, that's like gold for a therapist. When something unfolds in the session, that's the exact thing that you're talking about. that's unfolding outside of the session. Right. But I guess if his pattern is to kind of like not really be open to feedback, I don't know if it's going to work with this person, but it seems like it doesn't work with any with the person who's older either

because she says that he's been fired from sessions before also or he's quit. Well, the thing is the listener is going to be in the session with them. So it's not just going to be him privately telling his own side of the story. She's going to be like, this is what I'm talking about. This is why I don't feel like my, we don't know the details of what it is that she needs to get out with him. But I imagine that it might be, it might bring it even more to the surface in real time with this young therapist. And then she could be like, here it is. Right now.

You just did it five seconds ago. She said this. You changed the conversation to that. Or she, you know, recommended this thing and whatever it is that he's doing, that she can call him right out, right there for doing it in that moment. So that might be a silver lining. Okay. If she does decide to go with this person. But I do think it's also in her right to be like, hey, I found a couple too.

Right. Can I pick, especially if he's the one who wants to repair the relationship. I feel like he would probably be open to working with her on selecting the therapist. Yeah. I think she, you know, it's okay if she wants to do that. But I do think there might be something there to, you know, whatever it is that she doesn't like about him. And that's the thing that when it comes to estrangement, I think that's kind of the, you know,

the difference between different situations. And one, it's like this person, whether you go to therapy like they do or you don't, they're doing something differently than the thing that's hurt you in the past. Like you can forgive something that might have happened, even if it happened for two decades of your life or three, if it seems like you're going to therapy, they're listening to what bothers you and they're trying not to do it anymore.

Right. Versus just accepting that this is how this person is, they're never going to change. And can I breathe into and just know that I've given up trying to change this person and there are going to be moments where I have to be around them, I'm going to take a deep breath, I'm going to drop my shoulders, I'm going to relax my face, and I'm going to know that like this isn't my problem. anymore, like outside of the moments when I actually have to be in the room with this person,

which maybe I can just breathe through those moments if your goal is to prevent estrangement. So there's two different ways. One is like, we're going to work on this. You're going to listen to me. You're going to change, which maybe they're still in that zone because he is suggesting therapy and maybe he'll be open to her saying, this, what you're doing right here is part of the reason why I'm losing interest in having a relationship with you. Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

So she can, like, start with this, whether this therapist or someone that they mutually agree to go see. And if that doesn't work out, if that doesn't feel like there's any, like movement or no, like, admitting of giving some, like, giving a little bit, then she could do the second route, which is like, I will see you in, like, the boundaries that make sense for me. Yep. And then she, the second stage for her is going to be working on, like, how to tolerate being around him. in those situations and maybe how to handle her mom or her siblings or however, whatever other factors are involved. So I think this is a good first step.

I'm glad he's reaching out and they're trying. I think she can suggest someone else if that makes her more comfortable or use this as like a, you know, in vivo example of what you're really deeply annoyed with him about. Like in real life. Like in the,

you know, it's unfolding in session, in front of us. know. Right. I guess she wants, I think most people when they agree to go to like a family therapy, I assume are looking for the therapist to tell the other person that they're wrong. Right. I think we've talked about this before. Like whether it's couples therapy or any kind of therapy. So I guess she's afraid that the therapist is not going to be strong enough to tell him that he's wrong. Yes. And if he's intimidating, like I honestly, I mean, part of what I was saying in the beginning about like I could see why she's concerned is because I was once.

a young female 24-year-old therapist. And I probably was intimidated by like a middle-aged man that had like a strong, loud, like, assertive, aggressive-ish personality type. Right.

Maybe less likely to push back. Right. There's, you know, especially depending on your own history. And so, but she might, she could be totally off base. It might be worth a shot.

But I, I'll validate. that this is, I could see why she's having an issue with this. Well, give it a shot. And if you're listening and you're a therapist, put your profile on private. Yeah. All right, let's do a bet is this. You want to read this one?

Okay, yes. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, long-time listener here, you guys light up my week with your thoughtful insights. I have a situation here and I can use your insight. My husband and I love to travel, but unfortunately, I do not have as much vacation time as him. His family would like to plan a vacation 10 months in advance to the outer banks in North Carolina. As you might know, it's a low-key beachy place. I've been to this area on many occasions, as has my husband, though maybe not as many times as I have. While this sounds great, I'm ambivalent ongoing

as I would like to keep open the possibility of going to another place I or we haven't been to with my limited time off. We have traveled with his family at multiple occasions and have not done anything with mine, though his family travels more generally and is good at planning. To throw in another wrinkle, his family is proposing we stay at the same house they stayed in previously while my husband was married to his first wife. This location has no shortages of homes, especially when booking this far in advance. My husband would really like to go and doesn't really understand my hesitance, both on the house and the vacation in general. He'd like to RSVP yes, and I'd like to keep our response flexible this far in advance,

What should I do here? Signed a salty batch. Interesting one. Yeah. I think first to address the ex-wife living there, I think they probably just like the house. It was a good house, had all the accommodations they were looking for.

And like, I don't think anyone's thinking about the fact that he went there with the first wife. If anything, like it would bother him. I'd feel like not her. Maybe. I don't know. I guess I could see why it would feel a little weird. But I don't know.

I think it's fine. Yeah, I mean, I think it's fine too. I think she's going to have like a feeling about it probably like a, oh, were they in this room? Were they in this bed? Like what was it like with her? Like she's probably going to have some of those thoughts. But you just, I think that's on you to kind of. Right.

I think yourself there. You can have those thoughts when you just go visit your in-laws. Like any time at their house. Right. If he was married to someone, I'm sure they've been there with him too. Yes. I totally agree. I think this is her thing that she has to kind of, but I get there is, and I don't know if you've

ever felt this, but there's almost like a, you had this experience with someone else already, and it like makes it feel harder for us to have like a unique experience here, whether it's like the person you're with went on vacation to a certain place with someone else or they went to a restaurant, a bunch with another person or they used to walk in this particular park. it almost feels like they've marked that experience and that memory as their own. I don't think she feels that way about this place in general, maybe because she was also there. Right. Before him.

Yeah, I could see that, but I think you could almost extend that to anything. I can see like how that might give you a feeling for a second, but I don't think any action needs to be changed based on that feeling. Totally. Not worth, like certainly not saying anything and changing an entire. family's housing arrangements based on that. I think it would be weirder if the family was like, we loved that place, but we're not going to book it because, like, he was there. Like, that would bother me much more if they were like, don't worry.

Like, we won't like let you sit foot in the house that she had slept in. Like, I think that making it a big deal would be like weirder on the family's behalf than it's not. So I get having the feeling, but you've got to just breathe, let it pass through. I don't think this is an actionable thing that you need to do anything about. Where she does have the like to stand on, I think, is not wanting to use her vacation days

to go away with his family again. Yes. That, I think, is fair. Yeah. But the issue is she doesn't have any other plans. So that's like the problem when you're married into a family that has like, that's always making plans.

It's kind of like far in advance. It's sort of like, now I'm, like, I either have to say yes or no to this, and I don't know what my plans might be. Right. Well, that's why she wants to say she wants to be non-committal. Right. So I don't know if it's an option, because I think this is deeper than this. I think she wants an opportunity to go on vacation with her family, even though that's not,

someone would have to take the reins on that and make it happen. Or she maybe would want to go on vacation alone with him, but someone would have to take the reins and make that happen. So I get where she's coming. coming from. She doesn't want to use her vacation time. I wonder if what they could do is just say yes and he could just go alone. Right. If she ends up like making other plans or using her vacation days for other things, he can just go. And if she doesn't, and by the time this trip rolls around, then you just go. Which is why I don't think that maybe it's about that because it seems like

an easy fix to just kind of say like he's going to go. She may or may not go. Yeah. I'm a maybe. But it's tough to like, it's tough to RSVP maybe when your husband's going and you're like, I'm just going to see, I'm just going to see how I feel. Like it does seem a little insulting. Yeah, you'd have to probably be really honest and be like she only gets like 10 days off a year. I only get 10 days off a year.

I am thinking about planning something, but I don't have it totally ironed out yet. And if I have the vacation days at that time, I'd be happy to come. Yeah. This is my backup trip. it's no big deal. I don't think that's so offensive to say, like, I only get a certain number of days. I was thinking of going and just name a place where you're thinking of going. If this was your daughter-in-law and she said, you know, books can go,

I'm a maybe see if anything else comes up. Like, what would you be fine with it? I think if we had gone on multiple vacations together, I would be fine with it. If this was like a one in a lifetime thing, we never get to go away together and like this is the time, I'd be more like, wow, it's kind of weird

that she's not coming. But if we do like a vacation or two every year and she doesn't come to one, I don't think I would be offended by that. I think that's, I think that seems like a fair compromise here to say like he can go, because also he's more flexible

so maybe you plan a trip with him and then he also goes to this. So you're not like, I think the issue comes when you're like, and people I feel like are scared to a couple of, seem like scared to separate a lot because it like feels weird

to go away. Maybe what has it either it's how to what's the look of it? You know, like does it appear like we're not a unified couple here or are they going to be offended? But I do think open communication like I get 10 days off. I was really thinking of going to, you know, wherever you were thinking of going.

And I'm not sure if that's like I don't think that's, I don't think they could be offended by that if she's honest about it, if she really has limited time off. Right. But I get it. I think if you confront it, the hard part is when you have to make an excuse for your partner. Right.

On their behalf. Like, that's awkward. Like, I'm coming. She's not, I'm not really sure why. Or like something that seems sketchy, which is why I think honesty is the best policy. Right.

She doesn't have that many days. She's going to see if she can go with the amount of days that she has left. Yes. That's true and it's fair. But I also think from her end, if this is really about what she's saying it's about, then call your family and start planning a trip if that's what you want to do. Or plan your own trip. Yeah.

Yeah. Like I think you do need to kind of, I get it, it's annoying because you might not be the type of person that plans a trip 10 months in advance and you're kind of being forced to do that now. But if that's something that's important to you and nobody else is really doing, doing it, like he's not doing it. Right. Which maybe is part of what's offensive to her is like he's not prioritizing like a vacation alone with her.

Right. I think people feel resistant to feeling like they're like plugged into someone else's whole family thing. Yes. And then their identity is kind of gone. And also like, I think you could like your in-laws a lot and not want to go on two vacations with them a year. Yeah.

I think that's like a totally fair thing. Totally. I agree. And it's like a big house vacation. It's not like everyone has their own hotel room kind of vacation. So that's like more togetherness than maybe you're comfortable with. But I think it's more like I want, I don't want it to always be with your family, but her family's not planning it. So she might, you might have to be the one that's like spearheads, your family trip just because you happen to be in this predicament.

Yeah. And I can understand why he's like, I'm not going to not, like, we're not going to not go on principle. Right. There's no, like, actual reason. Right. So I think you tell him, you R.S. P.S. Put me in as a maybe. I'll let you know.

Because that's not probably really going to affect the plans, I would imagine. Yeah. Yeah. I do think that you're right. There is something about her feeling like pulled into his life. And I do have a lot. I have a lot of newly married type couples that have this issue where it's almost like, I feel like I'm being absorbed by your life prior to me.

And we're not creating enough of like a separate life or you're not coming into my life that I had prior to you. And there's like a resistance to that, which is why I think it ties into like the same house with the ex-wife and her going away with his family and not him coming away with her family. Like I think that's probably the deeper issue. Yeah, that's a good point. I guess because it's the same house she might feel. like she's like just plug one wife in for another. Like switch him out and then go. It doesn't feel like unique to her or anything like that.

The same place, the same house. Yeah. So I get that her like subconscious she's like subconsciously probably triggered by wanting more for him to come like into her life prior to him, her family, her stuff that existed before him, the same way she's going into his stuff that existed. before her. Right. All right. Well, I think we gave her a practical solution, but she might want to look into the creating more memories with her family thing or things to go. It might be an interesting

discussion to create more intimacy with her actual husband. Totally. And this is how those things happen, right? Necessity is the mother of invention. Like, she might not be a planner, but maybe because of the situation that she's in, she's going to have to become the vacation planner for her family as a result of just the situation that she's in with her husband, and maybe that will continue on, and they will have, you know, maybe this will spur them to have a couple more family vacations, if that's something she even wants,

or a couple vacations, whatever it is. It might light a little fire under her ass to start becoming more of a planner because she's in this planner. Yeah, she's still sent there rejecting the vacations. Yes. Yes. Yes.

All right, let's do some intentions. Okay. I will read them. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. First of all, thank you so much for creating my very favorite podcast. I started listening right around the time my husband and I were trying to decide the name of our future baby.

Well, on oversharing, I like the sound of Naomi so much that we ended up naming our baby girl, Naomi. Wow. That is amazing. That warms my whole heart. That's so sweet. Would you say the baby is named after you? No.

It was just an inspo. It's a little bit after you. If you were like an asshole, she probably wouldn't name the baby Naomi, right? I think. She got a little warm vibe that is really flattering. I love that. I've had such a kind of love, hate. When I was little, I did not like my name at all because it was unique.

And I wanted to be named like Jessica or Samantha or like. Right. Like an easy name. Yeah. An easy name that like there were like four others in the class and I felt like I fit in. But I will say once I got older, I appreciated having more of a unique name. So hopefully a little. baby Naomi will as well. I'm sure she will. And you know, if you're going to have another,

Trudana's a lovely name as well. I'm just throwing it out there. I'm throwing it into the, into the ring. It is a lovely name and unique as well. Thank you. Okay. So baby Naomi, my baby girl is the reason I write to you now. She just turned one and is so much fun. Walking, talking, playing, learning new things every day. It's the best stage yet. Though there is one part of the stage that I don't love, baby Naomi is a total and complete daddy's girl. When he is around, she wants to be in his arms, playing with him, reading with him, walking with him, or to him, touching him, fed by him, and the list goes on. She's so smitten with him that she will literally bat my hand away or push me away to get to

da-da. When she's in my arms, she will squirm away and reach out for him. So far, I think I've been doing a pretty good job of telling myself things like, it's okay. This is sweet to see the amazing bond between father and daughter. And I'm lucky to have a husband who is such a wonderful father who loves his baby so much and she loves him so much. But last night, I hit a wall. I had a tough day at work. I'm an elementary school teacher and all I wanted to do was get home and be with my baby.

Well, she wanted absolutely nothing to do with me. My husband felt bad because he could see I was feeling sad and rejected and he kept encouraging Naomi to go to mama. Or he would even try to deposit her with me and sneakily leave the room, but she would immediately go trailing after him, screeching dad-da, dad-da. The logical part of my brain knows that this is normal and it's temporary, but my heart is really hurting right now. I was at home with her for 10 months before I went back to work in August. And so I'm not only missing her when I'm away at work, but I'm also missing her even when I'm home. Can you help me with an intention? I can tell myself during this chapter, the Invisible Mama. Aw, this is hard. I feel for her. I feel like this happens, like more often than not,

babies have a preference. Is it usually the mom or like not really? A lot of times I think it's the mom, but I've definitely seen it, the dad before and like people have to deal with this a lot. It's not easy, but it's like I would say, I mean, I don't know the numbers,

but I would say often there is like a strong preference for one parent. Right. In phases, like little phases as, and this will, she knows that. So that's my number one thing. It's like, this is a phase. It's not going to be like this forever. she will grow out of it.

I can see why it'd be frustrating, though, because you're giving so much. And that's probably a good lesson, because that could probably happen at any stage where, like, you know, especially if they're a teenager, you give them everything and they want nothing to do with you.

Totally. I would imagine. Yeah, I think it happens. I mean, this is going to flip-flop probably a dozen times before they're grown. And even in adulthood, there's like, you know,

you talk to, your kid calls one parent more than another parent or goes to you with certain things and goes to them with other things. So I do think this is the beginning of a long journey of watching this, you know, this relationship change between who she prefers. I think right now it's her dad. And that really is painful. And I'm sure there is almost like that feeling of longing. Like I want to come home. And I think some of this is like more of like a, like her, the mom is craving like the physical touch with the baby. Like I want to hold you. I want to like nuzzle you.

I want to get close to you. I want you to like it. You better like it. Totally. And that's not happening. But I do think that sometimes what she might be missing is that if is that the dad can hold the baby if that's what she prefers. she can still interact. Like, she could still enjoy aspects of it without maybe having that physical affection piece,

like the snuggles and the cuddles and the holding and the touch. Like, if the dad's holding her, she can, like, make a funny face or play with her, talk to her, read to her, or feed her or whatever it is where they can do kind of like a combo where she doesn't have to, it's like either I'm holding her or I'm out of the picture. Maybe she senses your desperate energy. Is that a thing? Oh my God, that's so funny. There was like, I saw some meme that was like the dad shows up to pick the girl off from school.

Did you see that? I think so where the dad, yeah, the dad shows up and then she like runs to him and he's like, whoa, like, don't be so desperate. No, I mean, she doesn't say much about the dynamic because it can go either way. Sometimes it's like maybe the dad's working from home. and he's home more. And so a lot of times that will create that preference if the dad's, like, around more. And it could be the opposite. Sometimes it's like the parent, they prefer the parent that's not around more, like, that they see less often.

That's like more new and exciting. So I think it can go either way. So you know the advice that I'm going to give, which is like quiet that noise of like, why doesn't she prefer me? Is it, am I doing something wrong? Are we never going to be as close as, I thought, I envisioned us to be like, it's just a phase. It will pass through, like to kind of feel it in your body of like, I feel this longing to like snuggle and cuddle and hug and touch.

But right now, I'm just going to, you can still look at her, you can still interact with her, you could still do all those pieces. Maybe she just wants to be like in the arms of her dad. But I still think you can interact. but I would just definitely like notice that longing feeling in your body, but quiet the noise of like, what does this mean for my future with my daughter, which is nothing,

means nothing, literally. Yeah. But that's probably what makes it feel really painful is the idea that like we're not bonding or she doesn't love me or maybe there's something I'm doing wrong. Yeah. Yeah, I shouldn't have gone back to work and what, you know, like quiet all that noise. It's just a phase.

So what intention should she? So the intention that I had for her is, and she knows the temporary part, but this season will change, I will allow my longing to exist in my body rather than my mind and remind myself to connect through mindful witnessing of each moment. So that's a bit wordy, but you can take it in pieces, but remind yourself to connect through mindful witnessing. of each moment. So she doesn't have to be like the one touching, holding to in order for that to be a moment of connection with her baby. She can witness the two of them together and just knowing at one point, that's going to be a memory. Watching her and her dad in this way, her like scooting off to run after her dad, that's going to be a distant memory at some point. Right now it's happening, but this is a season and it will pass.

And at some point, you know, you'll look back at it as if you're watching it in your memory. So I'm almost kind of doing that ahead of time. Like, I'm just watching this thing unfold without attaching so strongly to like what it means about me and my baby and, you know, how it's all going to turn out. Totally. I like that. In the meantime, you know, use this to your advantage. Let him do all the like, you know, eating with her on his lap, like all the annoying. He changes the diapers.

She really wants you. I could tell you can handle that. The other piece of advice that I do have on this that I found was helpful is like it removing him from the picture. Like if you do. Get a divorce. Here's the thing. That's one option. Just have him visit on the weekends every other weekend once during the week.

No, I would say if you do. either like if they're spending time together, like I said, you can be involved without needing to be like the one that's holding her. Or if you do really want to be like spending time holding her, doing all the things that he's like out of sight, I think is very helpful. Because a lot of times when they attach to one parent, their eyes are like always on that parent.

If they're coming, if they leave the room and come back and then leave and come, you know, if they're like around, it makes it harder. Well, did he try that by putting her in the room? with her and then she was like screaming. Then he needs to go away for like a longer time. Like he needs to be out of sight, I feel like for like an hour or two where she doesn't

think that he's an option. Like he's not even. And it might take her like 10 minutes of like dad, dad, dad, dad, dad, dad, which sucks. I get it. But eventually she'll be like he's literally not here so like I can redirect my attention toward Right. Sounds like when you drop a kid off

at like school or camp or something. Yes. And they're really upset. then they get over. Right. And the answer is never like, have the mom stand in the corner of the room. Like, that doesn't work, right? You have to leave and be out of sight.

And then they adjust to the caretaker that's in front of them, which is going to be you. So I think the hardest, the worst thing you can do for your own esteem at this point is like, stand in the corner, you know, have him stand in the corner, like waiting to come save you if she doesn't accept you.

and then jump back in, you know, I think he either has to be gone or you have to accept that he's going to be doing the holding and whatever, and you can still be part of it in an interactive way and enjoy her

without necessarily being the one that she's like clinging to physically. I like that. Give it a shot. Good luck with baby Naomi. Aw, love that. Send a pick. Yeah, send a pick.

All right. You want to read our first Triggered? Yes, I will read this. I love oversharing and I look forward to it every Tuesday. I'm writing with the Triggered for y'all to discuss. I've been with my boyfriend for two years. He's the kindest and most thoughtful partner I've ever had and I feel so lucky to be with him. This Triggered is about his previous girlfriend and how she's acted since they broke up. She was awful to him, per his family and friends, taking advantage of his kindness and gentle nature and the relationship ended with her cheating on him. Without going into details, it was a significant betrayal with a lot of deceit involved. About a year into our relationship and seemingly out of nowhere, she started asking to see the dog they got together. She only lived with the dog for a couple of months and hadn't seen it in two years. And trying to lean on him for emotional support to her own relationship problems with the person she cheated on him with, the audacity is out of control. There's a lot more from her end, but I'll leave it there. He repeatedly told him, her no to seeing the dog, and I fully trust that he's not interested in seeing her or knowing

anything about her life. They do not follow each other on social media. He unfollowed before we met and blocked her from following him a few months later. Here's where my triggered comes in. She recently completed a PhD, which she dedicated to him referring to him as my love, and noting how much he means to her. If you read this dedication, you would reasonably assume they are still together. Despite the fact that he was not involved in this project at all, they broke up as soon as she started the program. And she was with the guy she cheated with throughout the research period. To be honest, I don't know why it bothers me so much. My boyfriend doesn't even know he was mentioned in the dedication, and I have no doubts about the seriousness of our relationship or the way

he feels about me. But reading this dedication, a friend sent it to me, made me feel so mad and disrespected as his current partner. I know that she's a selfish person who's going to do whatever she's going to do, but I'm having a hard time letting this go. Looking forward to hearing what you rate this situation. Thanks. She's my dog now, bitch. Interesting one.

How did her friend even find this thesis or PhD, whatever it is? I don't know. I could see, I mean, I'm going to say it's triggering. However, I could see if it was like public on Instagram or like, this was like, some document that was like dug up, it seems like. Right. Like you'd have to be like seriously stalking her, which I mean, I totally get. I would do too.

But I agree it's not quite public and it almost just makes her look quite deranged. Yeah. If she truly believes that there's nothing going on with the boyfriend. Well, it sounds like she does. She didn't even tell him, which I find more odd. That would be the first thing I said. I'd be like, look at what your psycho ex-girlfriend did. That minute.

It's weird that he still doesn't even know it happened. I wonder what that's about, that she didn't mention it to him. Right. I mean, maybe she's embarrassed because it's like stalkery. Yeah. It kind of is. But like, maybe she had a friend that was in the program that was like, can you get a copy of her thesis? Is she sure it was about the boyfriend?

I'm very curious to know how she got this. Do you need to dedicate a thesis? Is that part of it? I guess people might do that. But yeah, my first thought is like, are you sure it's about him? But it's about him. She wouldn't have been, she wouldn't be writing in if there was like any gray area on whether or not it was about him.

I would assume. I mean, it does. Okay, I think it's triggering the entire act of like she's contacting him while they're together. She's asking to see the dog. She's clearly trying to like wedge her way in there. I think it's like pretty obvious that she's trying to insert herself into his life with maybe the long-term goal of getting back together with him or of being there when they break up,

which I think is definitely triggering. I think like asking to see the dog is like kind of annoying. Yes. And maybe her issue is that the boyfriend is being nice to her. Yeah, I do think that there must be some insecurity that she has. Look, again, triggering, right? No, it sounds like this person's still in love with her boyfriend. That in and of itself is triggering to know that there's a woman out there.

that your boyfriend was once in a relationship with, that he found attractive, that he was in love with, that's still currently in love with him. That's like a tough pill to swallow. But maybe you're right. If he needs to make more of like a hard line, which I don't know how much harder. He blocked her.

He said no. Right. He said no to the dog. They're not friends on social media. She said trying to lean on him for emotional support through her own relationship problems. I don't know. I don't know what he's saying.

I guess he's saying no, but like is he saying no as intensely as she wants? Because I guess the instigures are an insecurity, right? So the insecurity is that like he's in some way, shape, or form interested or that they had this really deep, intense connection. Yes. And the truth is she cheated on him.

So she essentially exited the relationship. Right. You know, I think it's a little safer when you're with someone who was, the one who ended their last relationship because you know, like, they had a choice to stay in it and they chose not to. And I guess he could have stayed with her cheating, but like not. He wasn't going to do that. So it's almost, and I'm sure that was very painful for him. So they probably had conversations about him like, you know, grieving that relationship and the rejection and the betrayal. And so yeah, he probably does have intense or had at some point intense feelings about

this person and the ending and yeah i i think that's the triggering part yeah that maybe there's like a little thread of like i wonder if right and also just like it's annoying like back off my man kind of like basic trigger no totally but i think that's basic i think that in itself would be triggering but i do think if she's dedicating this thesis to him and there's something in the dedication that makes her know it's him it does i think the the real the real trigger at the heart of it is this feeling of like, I'll never really understand this connection that they had and like, what if there's still something there?

Yeah, and then there's the other additional part of like, either this person's like a completely delusional, like, stalker, or you're giving her a little something that's making her think that this is like a reasonably acceptable thing to do. Yeah. I think you'll get a lot from his reaction to this, dedication. Like, I would show it to him. I would own that you're like, you and your friends are like a little crazy also, the fact, just the fact that you are in possession of the dedication.

I would cop to that, like, right away, just clear the air. And then say, this is my insecurity when I saw this. Like, are you giving her anything? Like, right. And also like, what's his, is his reaction? Like, wow, that is truly delusional and crazy. Yes. Or is it like, Oh, interesting. Hold on, let me call her and find out what that's about. Right. I do think, like, how obscene he thinks the dedication is will kind of, like, either push you at ease or maybe make it so that you need to talk through something. Right.

And, like, I'm a person that would consider myself, like, pretty patient and, like, able to tolerate holding emotions and, like, processing through without. necessarily needing to involve other people. But the fact that she has this and hasn't told him is like shocking. Yeah. I mean, I would just need to tell him immediately just so I could like, we could like get into it. Yes, immediately. So that might be a little bit more of like, I wonder why she doesn't feel comfy. I guess the stalker part, but still. And they've been together for two years. That's a long time. I can understand maybe if it was like they've been they've been officially in a relationship for like three months. months and she's like, this is like a little early to be showing him my stockery colors.

But like, it's two years. Yes. I think that's fair. I agree. The fact that, you know, you guys have been together for quite a while, they've been broken up for quite a while. I get it. The whole like coming back a year end to ask to see the dog. Yeah.

It's all definitely. I agree. Triggering for sure. But, yeah, see what he says when you. bring it up. And maybe the issue is you need him to be more firm, especially because the leg that you have to stand on about him being really firm with her at this point is that she's clearly still in love with him. Right. And not getting the message that he doesn't want anything to do with her at all. Yeah. So if that's your issue, is that you need him to like just not take her phone calls

or whatever, this seems like a good push in that direction. Yeah. But I'll get this to seven. It's like kind of insane. having another woman dedicate their, you know, thesis to your boyfriend is pretty triggering. And call him my love is. Oh, wow. It's also just crazy because it's like if someone asked her about the dedication, she'd be like, oh, that's my ex-boyfriend who's in another relationship.

Yeah, and it also feels kind of like permanent, you know, like long, it's not like a social media post. Right. You know, it's like on her thesis that's like, I don't know, maybe if one day, your kids would be like, oh, let me see your thesis. And you're like, oh, I wrote that to this guy that I had broken up with two years before. Like, I don't know. All right.

Let's do another one. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I love this segment of the podcast. And I wanted to share a trigger moment of my own. My boyfriend and I booked a dream international vacation for the two of us this winter. It took a bit of prodding for me to finally get this from a hypothetical trip to actually booking it. So I'm very excited. The other night went out for drinks with friends.

We were telling them we booked this trip when my boyfriend goes, open invite if anyone wants to join we had not discussed this beforehand and i don't think i reacted well in the moment making me feel embarrassed in front of the friends on top of the outrage at this invitation how triggered can i be thanks apparently the more the merrier yeah i don't know maybe this is just like a drunk like word vomit yeah to me that was like he's kind of just like in the i kind of invite people to things all the time that i have no intention on actually inviting them to many people on couples trips sort of just like as a passing comment.

Right. And if they like really wanted to come, it's not like he like sent them an email with like all the information for booking. In the middle of the day on like a Thursday, it was like, hey, want to invite you guys to this. Right. I assume the insecurity is like,

oh, does the boyfriend not actually want to go on this romantic trip with me? Because she said it took a little prodding. It took her a while to get this trip on the books. And then she's like, and I guess in the back of her head, she's like, maybe he doesn't really want to go with me. that's why he's inviting other people.

Yeah, that's the issue. That's the insecurity. I think she, you know, maybe needs to, I wouldn't, I would communicate, but not like how dare you invite people to our couples trip, but just like, I had this weird experience

when you invited them that like I felt a little insecure that maybe you didn't want to like be alone together for so long or you didn't want it to be romantic or something. and possibly, like you said, because you didn't see that into it in the beginning. So, like, I just wanted to check in

and let you know, this is how I was feeling versus, like, why did you do that? Like, you did something wrong. Totally. I also don't think it's embarrassing. She says she was embarrassed. I don't think, like, that's embarrassing to have, to invite people on a trip with you,

especially, like, in that way of, like, if anyone wants to, so, like, you're talking excitedly about this trip. You're probably talking about all the cool things you're going to do. And that's why I think I would just do that. that as a passing. Like, it's like when that woman invited everyone to her wedding. Yes. Yes, exactly. Because it feels weird to tell someone about this super exciting trip and then, like, sucks that you're not going. Right. Yeah, maybe there on his end, there was a little bit like it felt, you know, like he needed to soften that.

Like, you know, like they planned some huge trip. He didn't need to soften that. You're allowed to go to vacation alone with your significant other without inviting people for sure. But I do, I, I, agree. I think it was more of just like this sounds so fun like you guys could come along. I don't think there was much more to it. However, there might be some other vibe that she's getting that she's not able to

verbalize other than like it took some prodding. And I don't know, you know, I think it's more about that than that he shouldn't have invited people. Right. Yeah. So maybe there is, I mean, maybe there's something there. I don't know. Yeah.

Although I, to validate her, a little bit. I do feel like if I'm putting myself in her shoes and we were planning like a romantic, a lone trip.

I guess if it's the first one, too, it's like our first. Did you say it was the first one? She doesn't say, she said might, but they booked a dream international vacation

for the two of us. Right. So I don't, I don't know. If it was the first trip, I would say that's maybe more triggering. Right. Right.

Yeah, I mean, I do validate that it's sort of like, I'm looking forward to just having this be like a bonding thing with you and you're inviting other people. I could see without discussing it with me. Right. First. And I don't know how long they've been together. Like I've invited, I invited Mike's friends. We were just in France. I invited his friends who were like living in London

to like, well, we saw them before they left to come meet us in Paris. Right. Just like, and maybe that's, but I think because we've been together so long and it's not, and we've done many trips together. Yeah. Alone trips. Yeah. So I guess the content. text matter. Like this wouldn't bother me, but I think maybe they don't go on one-on-one trips a lot. Totally. I really think that matters too, because I'm even thinking about it like, you know, we don't get alone trips a lot. How would I feel if he like invited other people without telling me? And it does feel like maybe you can't come back from that either. If they text you the next day and they're like, oh, what's the name of the hotel? Like we're thinking of joining. It's like,

now what? Sold out. Oh, sorry, he was just drunk. Right. Like, you know, like, what do you say to that? Yeah, I mean, I don't know how earnest it was or like how usually people don't actually follow through on those things. But if they did, I could see why she might be annoyed. Yeah.

I do think context matters. How often do you guys go away together? Is this your first time or, you know, even like I'm saying, for a long-term couple like I'm in, if this was something like we hadn't had an alone trip in like several years and then we do and you're inviting someone, it might be like a little bit annoying. Right. Or like we probably should have discussed this before doing. Before. Right. But it wasn't a formal invite, which to me is what makes it okay. If like he sent an email to them without telling you with like your itinerary. Yes. And suggestions, that would be very, very triggering. This kind of one off comment to

me feels like four and a half. Yeah. I agree. And I think it's more about because of the way like you said, It was just like a comment at drinks. I think it's more about her insecurity about him dragging his feet on it or how him not being as excited about it as she hopes he would be. So I would bring that up. But I agree. I would give this, given the context, and that it was like a throwaway comment at a bar.

I would give it like a four. Okay. We're aligned. Keep us updated. Let us know if these friends actually join you for this trip. Or if you get into a big fight about it, we always love to hear updates. All right. That's our time.

Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Rebecca Steinberg. Editing by Will Maxwell. Guest booking by Ali Freedlinder. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and everything's fine. And send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.