Oversharing - I’m Tired Of Hating My Ex

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Dr. Naomi and Jordana talk about the psychology of celebrity obsessions and why people are so obsessed with their sports heroes. Our Overshare of the week features a voicemail from a Betch who is tired of trash-talking their ex. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener who is struggling to find the right therapist. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for an anxious new homeowner. And we’re feeling triggered by baby-less baby showers and ghosts of college memories passed. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. As we're recording this, the Super Bowl was yesterday.

But obviously, if you're listening, it's about a week later. Big Super Bowl family? Yeah, we had a good time last. night. You know, Brooks is six, so he's getting into it. He's, you know, he's, he's a fair weather fan. So he likes the chiefs because they're good, even though, you know, even though we live in Dallas, I'm like, the cowboys are cool. Why don't you like the cowboys? He's like, because they're not that good. He likes the chiefs like no matter, like even before they got it. Yes. Like not even just of the two, but of anyone. Yes. Because they're, you know, they're good.

And, you know, little kids like to be on a winning team. Right. It's so funny how, like, invested in sports men seem to get. Like I've never really understood feeling so passionately about, I guess, I mean, I guess people feel passionately about all sorts of things, but like so invested in these games that, you know, they're not playing in. Right. It's so true. You know what it is?

It really boils down to like, they don't realize it, not to patronize all the men out there, but like it quiets the mind. It's like anything that quiets the mind, you know? It's like a distraction. Just like, it's funny because there's all these like little subcultures of, you know, I have a bunch of friends that are starting to get into knitting or like, you know, which is aging, aging. You're getting to that age.

You know, getting into, you know, or if it's like you're into whatever it is, there's like it just quiet. The mind. Takes you out of your whatever shit you're in. Totally. Like I've been getting into, you know, I spoke about it on here before the tribute band scene, you know, like bands that are not the band. So that's like another little subculture. You go to a show and it just like quiet while you're there, your mind is

turning off the mind, turning into the body, being in the moment. So they're like in the moment when the game's happening. You know, it's like. Right. They're fully invested. I don't know. It's interesting to me like the line between because I don't know, something about like super fandom sort of annoys me, no matter who it's about, whether it's like. or like music or like any like anyone who's just like too obsessed with anything I'm like I don't know there's I don't know why I get irritated with it I'm like these people don't know you like they're not obsessed with you like why are I so like I guess I just don't understand the concept I've never felt like overwhelmingly like blindly obsessed with anyone or anything

and maybe that's like sad for me I don't know where's the yeah I mean, I don't know that I would, I think there's like a personality type that's super passionate. And that's probably not, I wouldn't describe you as like super passionate person, you know, like maybe when someone pisses you off or something, you could be like, have a flash of passion. But yeah, I guess. It's interesting because it can become like an identity, you know, like when you're the super fandom, it's like becomes part of your identity. It is sometimes it feels like a little sad where it's like they don't really care about you and you care so much about them.

Maybe that's what I'm saying. It's almost like a guy that's not that into you. It feels a little pathetic. I don't know. I mean, no offense to Sean who just wrote that he's legitimately depressed right now over the 49ers losing. Yeah, I don't know. It just seems so like one-sided. I don't know.

Like there's just like I guess they're giving you like the music, but they could be, it's funny because you could be giving that to just one person or like millions of people and it doesn't really probably change the person who's like giving it to you. What are you getting from this? Right. Well, what you're getting when they win, you get that like dopamine rush, you know, like when they win, it's like it's just the machine that keeps us all kind of ticking, which is like seeking that high of the thing that goes well. Or like if you're obsessed with Taylor Swift, it's like when you get the tickets and she comes out with a new album and you, you know, it's like all these little rushes. So you're just kind of seeking this little rush, which is we all do in our own way.

I mean, I wonder what yours is. We don't have to get into that in this minute. But everyone is like a little most people. Right. You're seeking that little jolt and a win from your favorite team is a jolt, a concert for your favorite musician. Well, like you said, I think I felt that way about dating. So maybe that is, you know, where I've gotten that. But at least in that, I think there's like a gauge for like the person's feelings towards me, whereas this is like, they have no idea who you are. Right. But I don't know. It's safer. It's way safer. It's like love a team. That's true. The team, unless, that's why they say don't meet your heroes, right? Right. Like they might not actually live up to whatever you're projecting onto them, like this magical

weird thing you're projecting. And you know, like I like Taylor Swift. As you know, I like Taylor Swift, but I'm not like blindly obsessed with her. But I think that there's like she has this cult of people that are just like she can do no wrong. There's something they feel about her that just makes you. Because I do think that there's like a level where it can border on being unhealthy. And I'm wondering from you with a licensed therapist, where do you think that point is where it's like, okay, you're passionate about. something you love this thing to you are like kind of obsessive and maybe disillusioned with the object of whatever you're passionate about yes i i can see that i think there is like when

you're when you're when you're blind to reality like sometimes it feels like you're not even it's like all this huge fantasy of nobody's perfect nobody right you know i mean even i have to say i was very turned off by Taylor Swift's, you know, Grammy speech. Like when she was like, this is my 13th, sorry for all you fans out there. This is just my visceral reaction. Like those people, like, there are people who are like, even just here at the beginning of that and they're like ready to fucking like attack. And people do that with like everything, like politics, like whatever it is. Like they're just like, there's just no nuance. There's only like she can do. If you come after her, like we are coming after. Yes. But finish your thought because I am not one of those.

people. Right. No, it's very true. There is something. There's like this protective like team. It's like a mob mentality. Part of it too is like a tribe. It's, you know, this is for Sean too. Just to normalize your feelings. There's like a we are inherently tribal because it's safe. It's worth tribal to our family. We're tribal to our community, to our team, to our political party like because it feels safe to be in a group and then the others or the others. and we've got each other's back. So, and maybe that spills over into like, you know, the Taylor Swift superfans where you can't say anything about her that she did wrong.

I just thought that her, I only caught like this. I walked in and caught this one little bit where she was like, this is my 13th Grammy and I have a new album coming out. And meanwhile, like, it's not about you. Right. My girl, Olivia Rodriguez, looked so sad. and like there were other people that didn't win. And I just felt like she was kind of tone deaf that like there's other people in the room.

And like it's not their 13th Grammy. And I just felt like it was kind of not considerate way to accept an award. I feel like Taylor is in her. I said this on the ad betches podcast. She's in a little bit of her like head cheerleader moment era right now where she's like dating the star of the football team. Yes. And she's like a little bit maybe feeling herself a little bit.

a little bit too much. Please don't come for me. Please don't for me. I've gotten like hate. I've gotten like people in my DMs are commenting on a picture that are just like, like literally like they will, I'm not even, you know, that big of a person to be like, commenting on Taylor, but people go crazy. So if you're listening to this episode, I hope you, um, you have a sense of nuance and

therapy and, you know, if you're, if you're, I think if you're in someone's DMs, screaming at them about what they said about someone that you don't even really that doesn't even know who you are. Yeah. That's a sign. Perhaps taking this all too far. Totally. She's not a marginalized party. She's like doing really well. She's like has lots of luck and success and she doesn't need all this protection. Right. You're not punching down. Right. When you talk about Taylor Swift, again, she's very talented. I actually really like her, which is the weird part about this whole thing. I wonder if it's because we have such a big family and a lot of different personalities where it's like there is no disillusionment of like there is no blind obsession with anyone.

Like there's like a very long sense on like big, I think big focus on like what are the like good and bad things of everyone's personalities? Like there is no there's no one in our family that's like we blindly follow whatever you do completely. Right. Well everything's like exposed. Like, you know, like you're never going to just hide under some cheery disposition that's like, this thing's perfect. Like there's always going to be someone that's going to be there to expose the other side of it.

And I think maybe that like I actually think like I'm a little bit too far on the spectrum of passionate like blind obsession because I think sometimes I'm like, well, maybe I should just let people enjoy shit. Like I don't have to pull holes in like I don't have to expose. He's like exposing. I'm to expose everything. Like maybe I'm kind of like being a little bit of a hater or taking the fun out of things. But I don't know. I think a healthy medium is probably best bet. Yes.

That's a nice introspective point. I think there is something when something just feels too pure. Pure and perfect. Like it was like whenever we would go to someone's graduation, you know, mom was always there in the corner being like, this is such a load of shit. That guy stole $40 million. You know, they're giving him the award of the year.

And, you know, oh, that's the teacher that did that other, you know, it's like this always. Well, it's not so, remember her,

her phrases, it's not so terrible. It's not so special. Right. It's not so special that, you know, this person's doing well or not, whatever.

Like, there is like, it's a little haidery, but there is some sense of like, okay, like, we're, like,

There's no one who could convince me that anyone in our family is living in some sort of like weird bubble where they have no idea like with the real store. They're not like duped. It kind of keeps you from being duped a little bit. Yes. But yeah, I like your introspection. I think moderation is good in this situation too. Speaking of intense, passionate loyalty, tell us about Jeff's show. Yeah.

So this coming weekend by the time this airs, you remember we went to that. When you came to visit, we went to the legacy. box garden, the box garden at Legacy Hall. It's like that food hall and then there's a balcony above and there's a band that plays on that big stage. Really cool spot. Yeah, it's a really cool spot for anyone that's in the Dallas Fort Worth area. His band is called Pride in the name of you too. They're playing at the box garden at Legacy Hall. I'm really psyched for it. It's probably the biggest show that that he's had. It's on February 24th at 8 p.m. I'll be there if anybody in the area. wants to come check them out they're really really good and it's just like I said it's a great way to

come turn your mind off and the area is cool there's a ton of shopping and it's in plano which is close to where I live which is all convenient so I'm psyched for that so come on out I'll be there I think the kids will be there and I should be a good time and I've heard Jeff saying such so talented such a great show anyone who's lucky enough to go is going to look it okay we're about to get into today's overshare and if you're listening on Spotify make sure you participate in our poll where we're going to ask you your thoughts on the opening question. But it's a voicemail, so we don't have to read it. Let's play the voicemail. Also, if you have a voicemail, you want to leave. You can call 646363-6294. Or if you want to email, you can email us

at oversharing at betches.com. Hi. I have a question. So how do I stop talking shit about my ex? For context, it's been about eight months since the breakup. He broke up with me. He wrote up with me. We were together for about two years and a half, and we lived together for the majority of that relationship. It was a COVID relationship, so I feel like it moved very fast, and we got serious really fast, because all we could really do was be with each other all the time. But anyways, we were the classic anxious avoidant. I being the eight inches one, and he was the avoidant. I was shocked and surprised by the breakup. At least that's what I used to say when the breakup happened,

that it was out of nowhere. But now, you know, I'm feeling better, and I realized that there were multiple signs of the breakup. So, yeah, he went out one night and he didn't come home. When he finally did come home in the morning, we got into a fight, and he worked up with me the next day. and at first I felt like talking shit about him made me help me because I was able to focus on the negative aspects

and what was not healthy about the relationship instead of just romanticizing everything that was good so I do think that talking shit at first did help me let go it felt good to talk shit about it with my friends and have the you're better off conversations but now I'm like eight months post breakup and I don't want to be that person that talks shit about their ex. You know, we were together for a long time, for two years and a half for a reason.

Yes, we weren't compatible. He was avoided and I was anxious, but I know he's not a bad person, and I know he probably didn't mean to hurt me. So I want to be able to stop every time I think about the relationship or every time someone asks me about it, I want to stop going the petty route and just talking shit. And I want to be able to, you know, be grateful for what the relationship was and not be that person that just talk shit about their ex. Yeah, if you have any tips for doing that, I would appreciate it.

Thank you. Okay. Relatable. Totally. I love our listeners. I feel like they're so, you know, when they write in, they're so introspective and like ask such amazing. amazing questions because what I hear from her here is that like she's aware that she did this thing in the beginning that was like protective and working and allowed her to disconnect from the relationship, which is like, I need to kind of hate you in order to accept that we're not together.

But that really doesn't give you closure. That just kind of helps you like survive and not like text him obsessively and not turn into like a, you know, kind of clingy stalker, please, please type person. If you're really like missing the relationship, the anger, it's almost like a teenager that starts to get like angry at their parents when they're getting ready to go to college because it like helps you kind of separate and, you know. Right. It's like it helps moderate the pain.

Yes. It's an easier, it's an easier cover than like vulnerability, which feels. for a lot of people, I think it's easier to be angry than it is to be sad. Yes, for sure. It's very protective and it feels like stronger than the sadness. So I think it's amazing that she's kind of coming to this realization now of like I wrote this story of the breakup and maybe that's not the real story. Right.

And very few people actually do that. So I think that like you said, like kudos to the listener because I think a lot of people which is kind of like, it's a more flattering angle to be like, oh, I, you know, he was a sociopath and he broke up with me and like he's the devil. And it's a much more like flattering to yourself thing. So I think it does take like a really evolved ego to be this isn't how I want to frame what happened anymore. Yeah. It's hard. It's hard. I get what she's saying. Because it's like I've already kind of like been pitching this narrative around town. Yes. How do I, how do I switch that? without it seemingly being out of nowhere or like how do I communicate this change in feeling to any time this might come up. Yeah. Well, I mean, I do. I think she can model for herself and her friend groups that there is power in rewriting

the story of your breakup. Like your initial reaction, like I always say, when your body's triggered, first of all, the way he broke up with her was so cowardly. it was like the worst, you know, like, I'm going to end it by like pissing you off so badly that then you fight with me and then I end it, which sucks. So I feel bad for her. And I could totally see why in that moment her body's activated. She's feeling abandonment. This guy isn't, you know, he did this in the worst possible way. I mean, maybe not the worst way, but one of the worst ways. And so, you know, of course, she's going to write, her mind is going to attach itself to all that

activated body stuff and write this version of the breakup story. So I think I would love it if she was even, I think it's more about for herself. But if she wanted to go to her friend group or if I was her therapist, I would kind of be like, hey, let's do an exercise. Let's write down your original breakup story. And then let's write down the real story or the story as you're seeing it right now, which is probably a little bit more like you said, you have to have a bit of a, you know, less attachment to your ego. That maybe, you know, whatever the real situation is, that you weren't a match or he wasn't, he wasn't that in love with you,

or you were overbearing and he, you know, retreated or he, whatever, whatever the real story is, there's so much power in just owning that truth. and rewriting the story with truth. That's real closure. So if you want closure in a relationship, that's why you can't really usually get closure in the first week of a breakup, especially if you've been dating two and a half years. Like it takes time to kind of...

Yeah, and eight months sounds like when you'd start to like get enough distance from it to be like, all right, let's look at what actually happened here. Yes. I mean, it's hard because, like, you know, everyone has their version of what happened from their own side. It's very hard to take the other person's full, you know, when you feel like you've been wronged. But I always think like the way, kind of what you're describing, it's like, what would be the way that I would want to hear that someone described their breakup if I was on a first date with them? Right. Right. And like,

what would you want to hear? You wouldn't want to hear like, I dated a sociopath. Because that screams like, again, not, doesn't have closure, not fully over it. Maybe it doesn't have the full sense of like what was actually going on. What I'd want to hear is kind of what you were just describing is like we kind of were a bad match. He was a little bit more of, you know, withdrawing and I was kind of clinging. And if you could, you know, it kind of ended in a messy way. But like when I look back, the relationship, we had a good time together.

It just seems like we weren't really a good match. Yes. I think coming to the conclusion that you were not working well together is, ultimately what it is, which implies that there's two of you, right? Like if you, we have no idea really what the underlying stuff is other than the end of it. But she does say she was anxious, he was avoidant, which leads me to believe that he was withholding some affection in some way. And that was probably making her, like, obsessive over him, like thinking about him all the time and having higher expectations of him than what he would have wanted.

or whatever it was. So I think when you break up with someone or like you said, talking about the breakup, it's nice to kind of say, you know, this way that he was acting brought out a side of me that's not like my favorite part of myself. And I, you know, realize now that like when that happens, like I need to, or even to say if you're like on a first date,

like I believe now that I'm strong enough to realize that when someone's not making me feel good that I can end. it before. Like I think a lot of times that's what happens with these relationships. It's like a relationship that's two and a half years probably should have been over in four months. If both people were like knew themselves and knew what they were looking for and could recognize when someone wasn't giving them that and then also had the confidence and the like you said ego or something like that to be able to like cut something off that wasn't working,

then it would end in four months. A lot of things have to like you have to be like kind of healthy to end something like that in four months. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that's what I really try to work with people on is like being able to be okay alone so that you're not like trying to change someone long enough until someone just throws their hands up. And he threw his hands up by staying out all night and then coming home and breaking

up with her because whatever it was wasn't working. And I do think for the anxious person that's like continuously trying to get. something out of their partner that they're not getting, the best thing you can do is find strength to say, you don't have to be angry. You don't have to be, it doesn't have to be anyone's fault. It just kind of has to be,

I'm not getting enough communication from you that I, this isn't making me feel good. And I, if you can't communicate more clearly or more frequently about how you're feeling, like this isn't going to work for me and leave. And if that person really does want to make the relationship work, then they're going to have to start communicating their feelings. And if they don't want to or they can't, then that's on them and then they can leave. But there's so much power and being able to be okay, alone enough to say, I feel worse in this relationship than I would feel if I was by myself.

And it's hard to get there. I, you know, I wish I had, I've been in like situations like that. And I think it's very hard to have the confidence. to get to that point or to not, to ask for what you want and then leave if you don't get it. It's probably the most confident thing that anyone. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Well, look, I love that. And I like this exercise. And anyone out there can do it to rewrite the story of your breakup, even if it was five years ago. You know, if it's something that you feel like you've kind of talked yourself into, but it doesn't really feel accurate. It feels like you're still living with this, like, protective story that you made up. because it can also help you feel better and a little less triggered in your future relationships. Right.

If you can rewrite the story of your breakup instead of like your worldview of like, you know, I was, you know, I always find these guys that are like the worst. Like I have the, you know, whatever your story is around what happened, then you might project that forward into your new relationships instead of kind of owning like we've talked about before. I probably should have left when I realized that he wasn't communicating. And that's the thing. I think a lot of the times with these things, especially when they go on for a long time,

you're a little bit, you're mad at the person, but you're really mostly mad with yourself. But it's hard to be mad with yourself because you live with yourself. You're all you have. So I think, and I felt that way too. It's like I'm actually mad at myself. The real closure is saying like, why did I stay in that for so long? Why didn't I leave earlier? is sort of like the real question to ask yourself.

Yes. And I would cut yourself some slack because what you're asking yourself then to do if you want to do that immediately is like deal with the separation, the loss, the grief, you know, the loss of your best friend and your lover and the lives that you've had intertwined or whatever that is. And then on top of that own up that you've made this mistake and it was kind of a lot of it, not all of it, but a good portion of it was your fault. So it's like too much, I think, for anyone to do right away.

But I'm glad that she's doing it. And I think literally rewriting the story like on a piece of paper or, you know, typing it out and just kind of being like, how can I reevaluate how this whole thing went down? I think it'll prep her for her next relationship too. Let's do a betchesist. I will read it. Dear Dreda and Dr. Nomi, thank you for all that you do. I'm not sure exactly which category. might fit into, but I'll lay everything out there. I've really been struggling after my boyfriend

had an affair last year, another email for another time. And I've been trying to find a therapist that feels like a good fit to help me through this crap situation. Over the past year, I've had more than a dozen consultations with possible therapists, and I wound up seeing three of them for full sessions. I saw each of these therapists multiple times to give it a good try, but ultimately felt like they weren't good fits, and I wasn't being helped. Fast forward to now, and I've been referred to a new therapist I really like from the jump, but there are two things I'm trying to process. One, she told me in one of our sessions that her partner has cheated on her and that they're still together. Is her disclosure ethical? I'm still trying to figure out if there's a path forward with my

boyfriend. How am I supposed to balance the disclosure with my therapy goals? Does her lived experience with an affair make her better suited to help? Two, I did a deep dive on Google and found out all about my therapist's life. I learned she's in her mid-20s. I'm in my early 30s and in seems like a bit odd to be seeking counseling from someone younger than I am. Doesn't matter if your therapist is younger than you. I worry she might be too green to help me. Also, should I have refrain from this research? It's probably unhealthy and perhaps I need an intention to stop.

Finally, do I bring any of this up to her? Do I just cut my losses again and try to find yet another therapist? I look forward to any wisdom you have, sincerely old and sad batch who just wants some help. This person seems a little neurotic, I have to say. You're judging that based on like how many therapists she's switched from. Based on like the extreme due diligence that she's made. Not that like I don't, I think that's a bad thing.

Like I think it is good to find someone who's a match for you. But it might seem like it might be that she is doing some over analyzing. And I've also looked up, try to look at my therapist online and I couldn't find anything. And I was like very happy about that. Yes. Yeah. I'm also a little neurotic. So yeah, you know, it's it's interesting because I thought the same thing.

I mean, at a certain point, yes, your therapist matters. You need to have a good rapport, but you're doing the work in the room. Like you have to find someone that's going to be a good match for you. But ultimately, if you're looking for a magical healer that's going to come in and like fix everything for you, that's not really how it works. They just kind of set the stage for you to feel comfortable and safe. like exploring your truth, which is sometimes painful. You know, your truth is painful and you need someone that's going to like hold that with you. But as far as therapist disclosure goes, it's tough, right?

Because sometimes therapist disclosure can help you feel like she or he understands what you're going through. It's almost like AA or a lot of recovery programs will have people that are in, that know what it's like to be an addict. And that's helpful, I think, because it's sort of like, I know how you feel. I've been there. And it's possible to find your way out, which I think is what this therapist was trying to do is kind of be like, it's possible to recover from this. I've done it. You know, disclosure is a tough thing to figure out when it's helpful.

I probably would have, and I do this with couples too, is I will say something like, I will let them know if I have a leaning. Right. So this couple's leaning, this therapist leaning is probably like I would make it work. Yeah. So if I have couples that come in that are married, especially if they're married with kids, I'll say like I have a leaning towards like trying to keep you together. Like that's my first. My first stop is like, let's see if we can keep you guys together.

Obviously, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. but like when I let them know that in the beginning, sometimes they're, you know, that might be their cue of like you might not be the best match if we're really, what we're trying to do here is separate. Or get over each other.

Right. Ultimately, I think she needs, she's been through a lot of therapists. She liked this person. I don't think she did anything by saying that she's been through it and she made it work. I don't think it's like a deal breaker. I think you probably,

I think what she really needs is to communicate. And I've said this on here before. that a lot of people don't do enough of is like communicate with your therapist. Let them know like this is how I felt when you told me that, you know, your husband has cheated on you and that you guys made it work. This is how I felt, you know, when whatever it is, you raise my rates or this is how I felt when I said this thing and then you ended the session two seconds later and I felt like you weren't really listening or you have to treat this person like a human because it is sort of like

a microcosm for your real relationships in your real life. Yeah. And I mean, if you could, it's a good person to practice with because they're not going to like tell you to fuck off. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. As someone in the real world might do potentially. I don't know. But you get like proof of concept. It's a perfect. Yes. And that's the kind of that's what that's how it works. It's the perfect person for you to come in and say, hey, this thing hurt my feelings or this thing, you know, if I'm being honest, like I've been through a lot of therapists. I thought we were a match, but then this thing happened and now I'm not really feeling that way anymore or it's, that's what you need to do with your therapist instead of, I'm not saying

you need to find a match, but like if you're going through dozens of people, at some point, you have to pick someone and just establish the relationship with honesty and let them know, like these are the things that are working and not working. Right. What about the age? Yeah, the age is interesting. I mean, I was once that young, I was once that young green therapist. And it's tough because you do kind of have that feeling in the room of like, I'm significantly younger than this person or I'm younger than this person. And I definitely still treat patients that are older than me because it's not, there's a lot about what questions you're asking and just sitting and holding and being warm. and comforting.

So I think it could work, but I think, again, something she could bring up. Right. It's funny. It's almost like she's annoyed by the things that are painting the opposite pictures. Like she's annoyed that her therapist has enough experience with this, has experience with this thing what she's telling her about. But she's also annoyed that she's so young that she doesn't think she has enough experience. Right.

So it does seem like to contradict each other in some ways. Like I'm like, what is the benefit of seeing a therapist who's older than me? with more life experience. It's like, I guess more experience in therapy, but also more life experience to kind of know what will pass or what, you know, have some, have some feelings on things that they've been through themselves. So I do think it's like the thing that she thinks is hurting her

is maybe the thing that's actually helpful. Yes. It's an interesting point. I do think she maybe wants her to have more experience with like other people's stories and not her own necessarily. I mean, but I get it. I think it could work. I honestly think at this point,

she said she's had more than a dozen consultations. She's had like three full sessions with several of those. I think you should probably, if you really want therapy, you have to look at this as like, this person is more here to like ask me questions to help me understand. And to be honest, I think, and this is how I,

where I've come to in my later years, of therapy. Like I used to do a lot more of the thing where like, let's figure out the underlying cause for all of these feelings that you have. And what I've realized as I've gotten older and become more experience is you can do that. And it's scratching that itch of like intellectualizing the problem and like really understanding it. But it doesn't usually, it oftentimes doesn't make it better. It doesn't make it better until you can do the mindfulness thing where you're like, these are my thoughts. These are my automatic reactions that maybe come from my trauma. And I realize where they come from. But the healing doesn't happen until you can separate yourself from that.

Just understanding like, oh, this comes from my mom or my dad or my trauma or whatever, that's not going to really fix it. What's going to fix it is realizing, oh, this feeling is coming from my trauma. but now what? Like now I have to inject some intention and some energy and some purposefulness in terms of controlling my thoughts and my body. That's when you start to feel better. You're not going to feel better just by getting a therapist that can figure out where it all came from right away. And I think a lot of people, they think, oh, that person's smart. They figured it all out.

So they're good because they're smart and they figured it out. That's part of it. The other part is now what once you figure it out? Right. What do you do with that information? Yeah. So like, how do you, what do you do with that information? What you do is you notice it, notice where it's still living in your body.

Like the body keeps the score kind of thing. Like you notice, okay, this came from like this traumatic event with my mother when I was eight or whatever. Okay. And then when that feeling that you had when you were eight is now present in your body when you're 34, you're sort of like, okay, here it is. I don't need to go down that whole over intellectualizing rabbit hole of where it came from. I just need to recognize this is living in my body today in 2024. This is a remnant of, you know, 1990, whatever it is.

and I need to calm my body. I need to detach from my thoughts. I need to like accept, accept the feeling, relax into the feeling, not do the thing that I usually do, which is everything to avoid this feeling. That's where the problem is,

if that makes sense. Like everything you do to avoid that triggering feeling, like text the guy 500 times, you know, update your profile on hinge or whatever, you know, call your husband and yell at him, whatever the thing is that you do to avoid the feeling that really came from when you were eight, relax, allow it. I know what this is. This isn't about now. This is about then. Let it pass. And then when your body is come, now you can move forward and

make a choice that is more relevant to your present situation rather than reacting to your past situation, if that makes sense. Oh, it does. I love that. Yeah. I'm going to try that. Yeah, so I think it's like the therapist. People want this like, you know, Freud that's going to come in and figure it all out and like tell you where it all came from. And like that's great and that's fun.

And it feels like you're doing like this interesting exercise with your therapist and you're digging into like almost like everyone loves like a personality quiz. You know, like who are you? And like. Right. It's not going to fix it. I agree. It sometimes does feel like. That's why therapy can feel like indulgent.

Yes. When it's probably not like. the right version of it. Do you know what I mean? It's like you can, it feels like somewhere you can go and just like talk about yourself and analyze yourself and overanalyze yourself and go over the problem again and again. And it kind of feels like, this is nice. I'm like taking a bath in like my own like corrosals. Yes. Yes. Yes. And when I was a younger therapist, I will admit that I did that more. Like I would do that more with my patients. Like I would sit and do the thing where we're going to like take a bath and all the things and like really like swim around

in the past and where it all came from and like there's a place for it but I don't think it serves a purpose if you want to feel better and feel more content and feel happier and more in control of your own experience that has to be like a minimal part of the process in my opinion that's my style is I know some therapist might disagree with me, but I think that's a good idea. Also, I would, I mean, I think most therapists try to hide their personal life from the internet to an extent. Yeah. I would avoid doing that if you can, but I've done it. Hopefully you don't find anything and you can just go on about your day. Yeah. No, it's, it's, I mean, look, obviously, I'm doing this show. So people find out more about

me than they probably would. I do, you know, in the right ways, I think self-disclosure is, is okay. It lets people know, like, I'm a real person and I understand what you're going through to a certain extent. But, yeah, too much information is just going to make your head swim if you're already that type of person that's like to like overanalyze all of it. Yeah. All right. Let's do some intentions. Do you want to read them? Sure. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I'm a huge fan of the podcast and love listening to you every week. My boyfriend and I are currently in the process of purchasing our first home. We live in Massachusetts and like many places, the cost of homes here has grown astronomically over the last few years. The market has been very tough. After much

searching, we finally found a house that we both love and can afford. A few weeks ago, our offer was accepted. We're set to close at the end of the month. The house is in a great location and has a great floor plan. We're very excited, but it definitely needs a lot of cosmetic work. floors need to be refinished, everything needs paint, kitchen needs to be completely redone, basement needs to be finished, et cetera. While it's nice that we'll be able to put our own stamp on the house, the emotional and financial stress of these mounting projects is overwhelming at times. That combined with all the other stress, unexpected issues, the costs associated with the home buying process has me feeling much more anxious than I usually am. There are moments when I wonder if it would

have been better to just continue renting and if all this stress will be worth it. Thankfully, my boyfriend and I both have pretty good jobs and we're getting some financial support from my parents. So we do have the financial ability to get through all these things. Everything is just ending up more complicated and more costly than we had anticipated. Jordana, did you go through anything similar when you were looking for a house? If so, was there anything that helped you keep sane while you were going through the process? Dr. Naomi, I'm wondering if you have any advice or an intention for what I'm

feeling overwhelmed by everything that I need to do and pay for related to my new home. I'm also a subscriber and love the meditations. Keep them coming. Thanks for your help, a homeowner batch. Love this email. Yeah. Hard. Okay.

So tell us. How are you getting through it slash gone through it? Yeah. I don't think people talk about how like the, like especially when you're coming from just renting an apartment to buying house. I don't think there's that much about like the anxiety of a home, of owning a home and the expenses that come along with that and the maintenance that come along with that. I don't have a child, but I would imagine there is some comparative level to like, okay, before we were kind of just living in a situation where everything was taken care of. now this is on like it is on us to maintain it's like if it does well that's on us if it looks like

shit it's on us yes and it's a little bit of um pressure and especially when you move into a house that's not like newly done that needs some work like this listener's house and like my house you're kind of like not exactly sure what you signed up for because there's no way to know really when you buy i mean you own a house like there's no way to know what's going to break what's what, you know, once you look under the hood, like, is actually not doing well, what the costs are for heating or any of that stuff. So I do think it's like a pretty overwhelming thing that no one really talks about that I, especially as someone who gets anxiety spending money, have also felt. And I think some of that goes away the longer you, like, live in the house and just see like how the house works and what and you get used to like whatever the costs are associated with all the different things that you have to do, whether that's like landscaping or. painting or furniture, any of that stuff, there is like a sense of like the longer you're in it, the experience of having done it does give you some ease as it pertains to renovating and things like that. I think the most helpful thing that anyone has told me is that your house is kind of like

this living, breathing thing and it's never really going to be done. Like it's never just like, okay, you said it and it's good and it's over. Like you're always kind of working on your house, no matter how long you live there, whether you're living there for like two years or five years or 20 years or 30 years. Like there's always things to be done. So you can't look at it as like something that you need to just finish. It's like I imagine again like raising kids like you're not like just done one day. It's like it's just a moving constant thing. So I think that was really helpful just to know like it's not like I'm so far behind the game. I can do this at my own pace. Yes. And then The final thing that's been really helpful is feeling like, okay, I can take, I can like break

this big project down into smaller ones and work on one thing at a time. And whenever you, whenever you're looking at something smaller, it's much easier to manage than something that's like, I need the whole house to be finished. Totally. Yes. And that's why I'm glad she listens to the meditation because the one that came up when I was thinking about this for her was like the one about like being over I think it was more like overwhelmed at work but it's the same concept it's like you're holding the whole conveyor belt line of all the things that are coming towards you in your mind at one time and inherently it feels like I can't hold all that I can't possibly do all of that so yeah you know breaking it down into little bits is really important and I think

what happens is after you, like you described, after you are in the house for a while, you kind of start to be a little removed from the decision to buy the house. Like I think right now she's kind of in this place where she's like, what did I get myself into? Should we have just continued renting? Was this a good decision? Was this house a good decision? Should we have done a different house, which then just clutters your mind up even more? And once you're in it, you're like, okay, this is the house. Like, it actually feels like my house a little bit more now. Like, I'm in it.

This is our house and we have to like take care of it and do the things instead of like, this is someone else's house that now we're living in. And now we have. Signed up. Yes. Yeah. I think it's, I don't know if anyone's told her this, but a few people, a few different people told us

this before we moved in, which looking back was pretty helpful of like, you're going to move in. Something's going to break. You're going to have like an immediate feeling of like, what did I do? Mm-hmm. No matter how nice your house is, no matter like what house you bought, something's going to happen and you're going to have that feeling. Like it's natural.

Everyone feels it. It doesn't mean you bought the wrong house. But just having that expectation, I think that like that's the thing. You kind of feel you're like, am I a sucker? As soon as you move in and something breaks, you're like, did I move into a money pit? Yes. I think that happens anytime you spend like a lot of money on anything. There's this feeling of like searching.

It's got to be perfect. Yes. Searching for the problem to tell yourself that it was, you know, that your sucker, you shouldn't have done it or whatever. So all of this is so normal. And she sounds like they're very early on in this. So I hope she, you know, listens to everything that you're saying to help calm her mind that as she's in it longer, she'll realize this is a constant work in progress. And the beauty of this is that there's really a.

no time, like your timeline is self-imposed. Unless you literally don't have a toilet or don't have like a, I don't know, refrigerator or some basic things that you, or heat or whatever, the rest of it, the aesthetic stuff, that's, there's no pressure. There's no timeline. Like, it will get done and I don't know if this is helpful, but I like to just remind myself, that's why I like watching these like nature kind of. of like, you know, sociology documentaries were like, we used to live in caves with like bugs.

We used to live in huts and tents. And like our floors weren't finished. And they didn't even think that their finished floors were like an option. So if you can just kind of come down and realize like I'm in this house with my boyfriend, we are going to fill it with love. We're going to get this stuff done. But in the meantime, like you said, one thing. thing at a time. Break it down into little pieces. So the intention that I wrote for her, which has a lot

to do with what you were talking about, interestingly, is there's no rush. I will fill our home with love while I stop, breathe, and focus on one thing at a time. So what you don't want to do is end up like creating a tense environment in this new house. Like you bought this to be together to start a life together, to have a home together. So like when you find yourself getting overwhelmed, you have to stop and breathe and just find gratitude or love for your partner or love for, you know, the fact that you, you know, have this space that you can fill together and then break it down. Listen to the meditation. One thing at a time, because that's all you can do. Even if it's painting one wall or. Which took me a while, right? As you know, has someone who

stairs at this wall. Right, right, right. So, yeah. I think that's important. And I think it's like, if you could try to have fun with it, I think that is also like really helpful. It doesn't always, because I remember someone who had recently redone their house. They're like, are you so excited? You're going to have so much fun. I was like, what? Like, what do you, it's like, it's, because you think of it is work. But like, it actually, I think if you, if you have fun with it, then it's like a fun project that you're doing together and you get to pick all the things that you want you to make it yours and that feels really nice and I imagine like again to relate it to kids again it's not like if someone said to you you could snap your fingers and your kids are like out of the house and 18 like

you wouldn't be like great right you'd be like no I want to like have this experience yeah yeah I want to have the experience of like the ups and the downs and like creating like the life that's mine I don't want to just be like done totally that's a great that's a great. great analogy, I think, because it's sort of like, you know, even little things, like, I know you've done some of it yourself, like ripping up, ripping off the wallpaper or whatever. Like there's something, there's an experience in there. There's a sensory experience in there. There's a way to get yourself out. The takeaway is get out of your head, get into your body, get into your life, the present moment, and just take one little project at a time. And yes,

and try to enjoy the mindset, mindset. So yeah, your mind's going to slip off. And all of a sudden, it's going to do the thing where it's like broadening your perspective. You're holding too much in there at one time. And that's when you have to take a breath. There's no rush. And just bring your mindset back to one thing at a time. And it's going to keep happening.

And this is what meditation kind of is. It's like recognizing where your consciousness is and repeatedly bringing it back to whatever you choose you want it to be. And that has to happen. People get frustrated with it because you have to do it over and over and over and over again. So it feels like this isn't working. I keep having to do this. But that's how you choose your mindset.

You have to choose your mindset dozens of times a day. well that's yeah that's where you also get that experience of knowing it's going to be fine yes if you redo a bathroom like then you can redo another bathroom and not feel like it's the most overwhelming scary thing because you know what to expect and like you said like if you could redo the bathroom and get through it you just almost left to like see for your like experience and my therapist used to stress this a lot like I could tell you something's going to be fine over and over the only way for you to really learn is for you to like do it it see that it's fine.

So you can do it again and be less anxious the next time. Yes. It's this and it really, I like the parenting analogy in a lot of ways because I do think it makes sense. Like as I've grown in my parenting, something that would like feel like I need to call the doctor. I need to do the research. I need to,

you know, call and she needs to be in therapy. After a while you're like, oh, this was a phase. This kind of like, it'll pass. It'll pass.

And now when that type of, type of thing happens and they get worked up about something or I get worked up about something. I'm like, everything is a phase. It will pass. And the more you do it, the more you realize, like, okay, I can get through this one little wave at a time. So, yeah. Right.

Good advice. I like, I like, you know, you got something nice about someone telling you that you're going to feel like a negative thing. So you can kind of be like, oh, okay, this is what they were talking about. This is part of it. Right. Don't freak out. It's kind of like what you talk about a lot where it's like your feeling happens and then

you try to rationalize it, right? Because you feel so like, you're like, I must be the only person who's feeling this. And so I must have made a mistake. And so if someone else tells you like that you should or like that it's okay to feel that way, then your brain, you know, feels free to like you said, just to feel the emotion without over analyzing and creating some story. Yes. That is true around it.

Writing the story. the story is important or not writing the story and just like I don't have to write a story around this it's just a moment it's going to leave soon just as quickly as it came just pay the bill yes get another one soon yes exactly send us picks when it's all done all right let's do some triggers I'll read the first one dear dr Naomi and jordan I'm a big fan of the podcast and listen to it every week thanks for all your stage advice and wisdom I've a triggered scenario for you I'm currently pregnant with my first child and we are getting to the stage of planning baby showers. My husband is from a different state than we live in, but his hometown is only about a four-hour drive away, so we visit often.

My husband's grandparents are having a big 50th anniversary party coming up that the whole family will be attending. Unfortunately, one of my good friends from college is getting married the exact same weekend and I chose to attend the wedding instead of the anniversary party. It was very important to my mother-in-law that my husband attend his grandparents' anniversary party, so I agreed that we would go to our separate ways that weekend. Both destinations are within driving distance, with my wedding being further out than my husband's event, but along the same route. So the plan is that we will drive together Friday to my husband's hometown and I will drop him off and then continue on to the wedding by myself. I'll be about 30 weeks pregnant at this point. Recently, my mother-in-law asked if I would be willing to stay

later after I dropped my husband off so that she and her family could throw us a baby shower when everyone was in town for the anniversary party. I agreed that it was nice that everyone would be there, that specific weekend, but I did not think it was a good idea as I already had had a long day of driving ahead of me and with me being so pregnant. I told her would be happy to come back a different weekend or I could stay later on Sunday on the way back, but I did not want to stay late on Friday. My mother-in-law did not like these ideas because that meant my husband's siblings could not attend as they would be leaving Sunday and were only in town for the anniversary party. She decided to throw the baby shower anyways without me slash baby and will have my husband

be there instead. How triggered can I be that they are doing this without mom and the guest of honor, baby? Ultimately, I did agree to let them have the shower without me because the baby is my husband's too, and I will have another shower with my friends and family closer to home. But it still irritates me that my mother-in-law went ahead and planned this without me anyways, even though I gave her several different options to try and make the event work so I could attend. How triggered should I be? Sincerely, betched with baby, but no shower. This is sticky. Kind of a tough one. It's I could see both sides of it. It's sticky.

I'm interested to hear what you think. My initial reaction is almost similarly to the wedding thing. If this was the only baby shower she was having, then I'd say very triggering she should be there. But she is going to be having another one with her friends and her family that live closer to home. And it's an interesting thing because it's kind of like there's many times where the mom only is at the baby shower too. Like I've seen that happen a lot of times. You don't usually have

the dad only. No one would say anything about that. Right. It wouldn't be a thing. But like it is equally your baby and the presence are for the baby. So like, you know. I agree. I think I would find this. I would actually, I think maybe be like a little happy about it. I'd be like great. All the presence and none of the socializing. None of the socializing. I don't have to speak to like your cousin who. who's like there to do whatever and like make like he gets he can like we can divide and conquer he can do this baby shower his mom feels like she's getting like an acknowledgement in a celebration maybe she doesn't want to drive four hours to yours and she wants something to acknowledge the baby I would think of it it's like it's kind of nice that she wants to do that unless you like really

it doesn't say I feel like if she really loved being with his family she would probably go to this anniversary party over the wedding just a feeling um just a feeling um So I feel like she should just like take the win there. Or she could stay like an extra hour. Like I get that she doesn't want to do that. But it seems like they were trying to include her. It wasn't like they were like saying that the initial thought was that they would just do it without her. Like they did try to make it work with her.

Right. Mom's like if we're going to do it, I'd rather like the whole point is that the siblings are there. Right. And if the Sunday didn't work. If the siblings are not going to be there, that kind of defeats the purpose. Yeah. I agree. I agree with you. I think this is okay. She has another shower. They tried to include her. I think maybe they could perhaps even do a thing. Like, you know, the old school weddings where like they would like get married and then everyone else would party and the couple would leave.

Yeah. So almost like you could show up. You could open like the gift from your mother-in-law perhaps and then be like, hey, this is great. Hello, everyone. So sorry. I have this. thing to go to, but really nice to see you all. And thanks for the gifts. And I got to go. Totally agree. And then you could like FaceTime in for like a little cameo if you wanted to. Yeah. I just think you can't really have it all here. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I think again, because she's getting a baby shower and it's probably that's probably going to be like the main baby shower is the vibe that I'm getting. It's like closer to where she lives and with more of her friends. And this is like an extra. So I would be happy that. You're going to get lots of guests for the baby.

Everyone wants to shower the baby with presents. The timing is really unfortunate. It just happened to not work out. I would try to just see the good in this and say, hey, my mother-in-law is trying to do something nice for the baby. Your husband will have to do all the schmoozing and all the, oh, this is so adorable, and I love it. And thank you.

Baby's not going to be there either. Right. Yeah. It's not personal. Yes. I get it in theory. Not being your own baby shower. in theory sounds crazy, but when you explain it all out, I give it like a three and a half.

I'd give it a three. I think it's because she tried to have her, she tried to make it work with her there. Right. It's like the backup plan. Right. Yeah. It makes sense. I think to get, what would be worse, in my opinion, if I'm this mother, is like having all the siblings have to come back on another day, a separate day, just to do a baby shower for me when I'm having another baby shower to have like a second baby shower that's making all these other people have to go out of their way. Yeah. Logistically, this seems like the best possible option. I would totally see how the mother-in-law would come to this idea. Point for mother-in-law. Mother-in-laws don't usually get a lot of points, especially with the betches demographic. So.

Totally. She seems very practical. Like, it just seems like a very practical solution. Yeah. I don't, I don't mind it. Three. Yeah.

Three. All right. Let's do another one. You want to read it? Yes. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I have a triggered scenario.

I'm currently 26 and married and have a group chat with all my friends from college. Every year, one of my friends, I don't know if this adds perspective, but she is engaged and has a baby. Sends a video from her Snapchat memories of me and a random guy we knew flirting and cuddling on our apartment couch. I've been with my husband for four years now.

Last year when she sent it, I asked her not to send it again as it makes me uncomfortable, being I'm happily married to someone else. The date came up in 2024 and she sent it again. How triggered can I be? Sincerely, ghosts of college passed. I think because she asked her not to do it and she did it again, it's very triggering. I think if that weren't the case, I don't think it's, it's that triggering, but this is like very annoying.

It's like, she told you it makes her uncomfortable, which is kind of a hard thing to say. Right. It's like everyone's kind of like laughing and having fun. And then you did it anyway. Like, that's pretty triggering.

Yeah. When I first read this, I was annoyed by it. Like, I think it's annoying. She told you she doesn't like it. Like, are you like a little brother that's just like

trying to annoy your friend? on purpose. I don't know what it is. I don't know why she's doing it. If it's maybe she forgot. It doesn't make sense. I would be annoyed by this because I just, you know, I don't know. It feels kind of icky and not like your boundaries are being respected. Yeah. I don't think it matters that she's married now. I don't think it matters matters that like her friend is is married with the baby. I think none of that really matters as much as like very clear line here. She said, this bothers me. I just chose to not listen.

Like, I could see why you just, like, wouldn't want to see a picture if you were just, like, with a guy from before, maybe something ended weird. I mean, she's 26 and she's been married for, she's with her husband for four years. So it sounds like she was probably with her husband right after this. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It might just be tweaking her for some reason.

Like you said, maybe they were kind of close together or there was some lingering something or, like, whatever. whatever it is. I agree. It's not like this is someone from 15 years ago. Right. And the video doesn't sound that funny. It's not like it's like this hysterical video. It's just her and a random guy flirting and cuddling.

Whenever, you know, you try to make a joke, I think you have to weigh, like, is this offensive? And if it's offensive, is it funny enough to warrant being offensive? Because sometimes the answer, sometimes the answer is yes. Yes. You know, I totally hear you. This does not sound funny enough to piss her off on purpose. Yeah, I give this, yeah, I give it a six. I give it a six too. And I would text her again and be like, hey, remember last year I asked you not to send that. Yes. So annoying. It makes you almost want to like do it back just to kind of let her know how it feels or why it's annoying, which don't. do that. But yes, I think you need to reiterate. Like, why did you send that again? I specifically asked you not to. And I get there's something sometimes about like when you're with someone new and it's real and you're married and whatever. Like it just, there's something that just feels a little

icky about seeing yourself with someone that you're not with or that you didn't end up with or I don't know. I just think it's a loving way. Yes. Like in a flirty loving way. Yes. It just, I could see why the video in and of itself the first or second time or however many times she sent it. It's kind of like, I don't love the feeling this gives me to which point she says, please stop it. And then she does it again. It's like I just. It's not even her ex-boyfriend.

It's like the random guy they knew, she said. Yes. Yeah, totally. So, yeah, uncool. Stop doing it. Six. All right. I think we helped some people today.

I really love so I have to say again, I know I said it before, but I, I love our listeners. I feel like, and the ones that I have, have come and join my groups are, I just, it's whatever, whatever is bringing these group of people together, I just feel like they're insightful and introspective and bring up really interesting topics for us to talk about. So keep sending stuff in. We appreciate you. Even if we don't get to your email, we appreciate you. We appreciate you sending them in.

But yeah, that's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby. Editing by Jazz Apados. Guest booking by Ali Friedlander. And send your emails to Oversharing at Betches.com. Betches.