Oversharing - Introducing: Baby Steps

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

Since high school we’ve been led to believe that having a baby was as inevitable as a Sunday morning hangover in your twenties. So what happens when your fertility “journey” takes a massive detour? In this limited series from Betches Media and the Oversharing podcast, host Jordana Abraham explores the various paths to parenthood that lay ahead when starting a family doesn’t come easy. In the first episode of Baby Steps, presented by BetterHelp, Jordana is joined by her big sister and co-host of the Oversharing podcast, Dr. Naomi Bernstein. Together, they walk us through the ups and downs of Jordana’s own efforts to have a child, including what it’s like to experience multiple miscarriages, exploring treatment options to help with the process, and how to respond emotionally when things don’t go as planned. Plus, she tells us what her options are going forward and what she plans to do next. Thanks again to our presenting sponsor, BetterHelp! Visit BetterHelp.com/BABYSTEPS today to get 10% off your first month. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Baby Steps, presented by BetterHelp. I'm your host, Jordana Abraham, and on Baby Steps, we're exploring the various paths to parenthood that lay ahead when starting a family doesn't come easy. With the help of weekly guests, I'm taking you on my own fertility journey and asking the questions that need to be asked. Trying to have a baby, especially when you experience obstacles, can be a huge emotional and mental challenge, and that's why I'm so happy to have better help as the presenting sponsor of Baby Steps.

If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just go to betterhelp.com slash baby steps today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, help.com slash baby steps. And to help me kick the series off, I'm joined by my sister and co-host of the oversharing podcast, Clinical Psychologist Dr. Naomi Bernstein. Naomi, welcome. Thank you so much for doing this with me.

You know, I'm excited to have this episode with just the two of us. and then, you know, an ability to debrief on the episodes that we have coming up and really excited to have you here. I'm so excited that you're doing this. I think the combination of you having the real experience and then bringing in the professionals to help you feel a little bit more control where you can in a world that probably feels super out of control, I think is something everybody's going to be able to relate to that's going through this struggle. Yeah. And it's been really cool. I mean, I've recorded most of the episodes so far. It's been really cool to just get a mix of, like, expert opinions and also people who have been through it. And, you know, some of the people I've spoken to came out on the other side. They have their babies and some people are still in it. I guess to take you back a few steps. Like the reason I really wanted to do this show was because for me, when going through it, especially in the beginning, I didn't really have many friends who had had miscarriages, who had trouble conceiving. And, and, And it felt really isolating.

And I remember speaking to my therapist and one of his like first pieces of advice was like, find some people online, find a couple of other people. Because like he's like it's less normal what you have than most people. Like most people know people who have had miscarriages. So he was like, find other people who have had some struggles with fertility. Speak to them. Get a sense of like how normalized this can be. And I think that'll be like a good first step. And I did that. I went out of my comfort zone. I, like, DM'd a couple people on Instagram and asked

them if they would get on the phone with me and just talk to me about, like, what their experiences were. And I felt a lot better after. So in creating the show, I really wanted to just highlight all different paths to fertility, all different stories of people who had obstacles kind of creating their families in a non-linear path. Totally. I think the balance that you found, yourself in is probably a good one where sometimes, you know, message boards can seem risky because you can get the people that are really validating and then you can get the people that maybe in that mood are just reeling and negative. And so I think what you're doing is sort of pulling people that can relate, but having a thoughtful, intentional conversation that's not coming from.

And which is, there's nothing wrong with hopping on a message board and just venting out all of your hopelessness, but that might not be exactly what everyone on the other side needs to hear in that moment. So this, I think, is a good balance for, you know, to anyone out there who's listening that's tempted to hop on a message board, but fearful of, you know, how that might make you feel if you read the wrong thing at the wrong time. Yeah, no, totally. I mean, I think we're both very lucky and very unlucky to live in the world that we live in now where there's internet forums and Reddit threads and Facebook pages about all this stuff. So on the plus side, it's like, here are all the people that have ever gone through this and like here you get so

many stories. But I personally would find myself scrolling through those things sort of in a panic at night. And most of the time sort of becoming more fearful or more scared or reading stories that made me more worried than they did hopeful. Occasionally you'd get a story that was inspiring. But a lot of the times I left those threads just feeling more anxious than I did before. So, but I mean, they are good for like tricks and tips, especially, you know, as you're doing IVF and that kind of stuff. Yeah, I wanted, I wanted, like you said, thoughtful conversations about a sensitive topic that are both inspiring and real and just to get a real sense of what real people go through. And I mean, I think it's important to note that a lot of the people that I'm speaking to are privileged do have, you know,

financial resources, some of them are pretty famous. I think that part of that is also kind of interesting because you see even those people struggle. Like there's no way out of this really. Like you can't be rich enough to avoid it. I'm sure it helps make dealing with it easier in some ways. But the struggle is sort of like universal. It crosses cultures. It crosses ethnicities. It crosses financial status. Like all of it. Right. So you said you've done a few of these. How have you been feeling thus far. Like after the sessions, honestly, are you ever feeling like, well, this is too much information? This feels like a lot to take in. Or does it feel like, well, I'm glad that I got this? And now I can, you know, get some sense of calm and move forward. I feel most of the time I do feel pretty

inspired because especially you have people who have like five, six, seven, eight, nine year journeys. And, you know, they come out on the other end of it and they're doing okay. And I think that is really inspiring. One thing I do have to say about deciding to start this show is I kind of in the back of my head sort of thought I would have like had this figured out by the time I was doing these recordings. Right. So that's been an interesting experience. Like I thought I would be like early pregnant and like. Right. And like emotional masturbation took you to that place of where you were going to be at this time. Right. Yeah. And part of me thinks like you know what I mean? Maybe I would have been like a little more excited to talk to these people because I would have been a little less in the thick of it. But part of me is kind of happy in some sense that I'm still in it because I still feel it. And it reminds me. And I was talking to

Jared, my co-host on You Up about this, is that like when I started You Up, which is a podcast about dating and relationships, I was four months into dating Mike. And I don't think I would have had the confidence to have started it if I was single. Right. I don't think. I would have felt like, I think it would have been too sensitive for me at the time, especially, you know, being 28 years old and maybe not have seen the things that I've seen today or have the emotional perspective that I have today. And sometimes I wish that I had started that show when I was single. So I could, you know, really be in it and really like go through it with the listeners.

Yes. Yes. And so I think it's okay. that I'm still in the thick of it. I definitely think, and look, I can't be the one to tell you this. You kind of have to either feel this or not. And I'm sure there's some days where you can feel this and some days where you can't where you're sort of when something, a struggle happens to you, whether it's like a deep grief

or a loss. And I think what you're experiencing every time you have a miscarriage or when you, you know, the pregnancy doesn't happen or it does feel like a deep grief. and a loss. And sometimes a one way to look at that, which is why I'm so excited for you to be doing this and so honored to be a part of it, is to say, like, how can I take this experience of grief and loss and share it with other people in a way that makes them feel more connected, that makes me feel more connected, that allows me to trust in my own resilience in this? So I agree. I think you're going to be much better able to connect to your listeners. Yeah, I'm sure some people

listen to this after the fact also, right? Because it kind of, they did go through it and probably can relate. But I think you're going to be much better able to really connect and be in the same place and ask the questions and feel the feelings while you're still in it than if you were coming at it from the other side or in the middle of pregnancy or or something like that. So I think, you know, you can be a healer here too, although you don't necessarily have a degree, but I think the fact that you're being honest with your experience and you're not sugar-coding it, but you're also finding humor in it and helping people get information. I just think it's incredible. And I think you're using your pain, your frustration, your feelings of hope and hopelessness and the whole

ride, wild ride that you're on. I think you're using it. to help people, which is the only thing you can do when you go through something like this. Thank you. I think that like, yeah, it's, it's funny. Like you always talk about on oversharing how when you don't have a sense of control or you don't know, you know, there's the unknown and the fear of the unknown and riding the wave of the unknown, which is really, this has really tested my ability to do that in so many ways. But I do think, you know, I do feel confident that I'm going to come out on the other side of it. And I do think that. when I do, I will be much stronger for it than if it had happened right away for me.

And I guess I wanted to talk about a little bit about with you, like how I've already, I feel like, learned a lot and changed a lot just through going through this process in a lot of positive ways. So I thought I would basically, you know, start with just giving you and the listeners my whole story just for some context because we're going to hear a lot of other people's stories on this show and where I'm at now. Totally. I would say about a month after my wedding, I went off birth control. I was, you know, planning on getting pregnant right after my honeymoon. And I think there was this, there was always this sense for me personally of feeling kind of behind where my friends were. And I think there was this feeling of like, I need to like catch up. I'm already like one of the later friends in my group to get married. There's, you know, I don't want to be so far. behind everyone with kids. I want to have kids with everyone else. I want to be like in with what everyone else is doing. And I guess I think a part of that maybe comes from like a childhood where I felt like I wasn't

with it or like I didn't really understand what like I wasn't with the program. Do you know what I mean? You weren't with the program or our entire family wasn't with the program. Yeah, our entire family wasn't with the program. Like we weren't doing things the way that everyone else was doing and maybe some feelings of like embarrassment around that or just wanting to be like a normal kid and not the kid in the chaotic household with like the divorced parents and like the embarrassing parents and all that stuff. Right. Okay. That makes sense. And then you know, and then you find a great guy who's like, you know, kind of, I think a corrective experience there, you know, like very with it, very like with the program, you know, Mike's a great guy.

he's, I think, very steady and stable. And so I was kind of like, all right, here we go. Let's do this the way we're supposed to be done. Yes, that was definitely my feeling. And I guess there was just like this. And even when dating, I think I always felt that too. I was always like, I've got to like make sure I'm with what everyone else is doing. Everyone's, you know, I wanted to get engaged in a certain time and I wanted to get married in a certain time.

And, you know, hindsight, 2020 when thinking about all of those things, probably. not all for the right reasons. I mean, yes, of course, I love Mike and he happens to be a great partner and we're a very good match, but I think there was a lot of other stuff that was going into my need for a certain timeline on that end. So I brought that timeline to the fertility process, always fun. Yes. But it was there for you from the very beginning. Like some people I think don't start to feel like they're on the timeline until maybe they, you know, it's taking a little longer. But you from day one were kind of like, all right, let's get this thing cracking. Yeah.

I think there was a feeling of like, let's do this because we're already like two steps behind. And I remember I didn't get my period for like three months and I was a little concerned. And so I spoke to a fertility doctor who had me come in and do a bunch of tests and figured out I had PCOS, which is fairly common, I think. And basically, like, what that means is your body just doesn't ovulate super regularly or like your cycle isn't that consistent. And this is, you didn't find this out until after you stopped taking birth control. Like, you had no idea about this. Right. Right. Yeah, because I had been on birth control since I was about 18 and I was under the false impression that a period on birth control was a real period. So I was like, oh, I get my period every month.

like clockwork. Like, I was like, I'm on it. It's weird, I guess, how little you learn in health class. I didn't realize that wasn't like a real period. That's really withdrawal bleed. So I went off birth control. I wasn't getting a period. I went to the doctor.

She discovered this thing. And she was basically like, you know, people have this issue all the time. Basically, like, you can do this thing where you just take like the shot. It's called overdrill. And it just like sort of forces an ovulation to, sort of force your body to obulate. I did that basically the first month I started trying and I got pregnant like that very first month. So I was like great. I'm killing it at this. Catching up.

Right. All great on the path. And I remember even still then thinking like well my like how many months behind my like the other friends who were doing whatever like literally. And I mean I understand of course that these thoughts are irrational and meaningless. especially now. I mean, right. Nothing is. Right.

So I got to week seven and there was a, you know, a slowing heart. There was a heartbeat that was much slower than the week before. And she said it didn't look viable. And then the next week I came back and there was no heartbeat. So that was like, I guess that was at that point, it was June of 2022. And I remember feeling this like really large, devastating feeling of, almost like I it's weird because the only thing I could relate it to at the time was a feeling of like being broken up with after like a three month thing or something. Yes.

Because it was kind of a similar thing where I was like I had visioned this whole future and I imagined, you know, all the things we were going to do and, you know, you think about this. It's not, I didn't even know, you know, it's really at this point, it's like a bunch of cells. It's not. I mean, obviously like I agree. It was a loss for me. I grieved it, but it wasn't like I knew the embryo or anything. Well, you were, you were, it was more happening in your mind, I think, than even in your body at that moment, like just the fantasizing and the, you know, planning out the future and what it,

you know, even as it pertains to the timeline, which is so interesting, you know, like maybe even like, okay, I'm going to have one baby and when am I going to have my next baby and whose birthday parties are we going to be going to and, you know, just kind of, playing the whole thing forward. Yeah, you play out your whole life. Yeah, and look, I think that that's very normal. That would happen, that happens probably within seconds, a lot of times of finding out that you're pregnant.

It's like the way you would see it on a movie, you know, like almost that flash in your mind of like what the future, like a flash forward of what the future is going to look like. And so I think that does that probably was a big part of that feeling of loss. It's like, oh, wow, all that is not gone. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I think that was like, that was a really hard summer.

I think I was not really. I think there was this sense of like, in my mind almost like, all right. Like it happened like, let's just get pregnant as soon as possible again because I'm like behind to now I'm like more behind to now I like, you know, every week felt like a month. then my levels wouldn't go down, like my pregnancy levels wouldn't go down or they were going down very slowly. So it was like this happened in June. And then in September, there was still there. Right. So I went in and I got a saline sonogram and they discovered there was still some tissue left in uterus. So they went in and they did a hystereoscopy, which is basically they put a camera in

to uterus and they take that out. So this is done then by like October. And I remember feeling that whole summer just like on and off again crying just feeling like something wasn't right. I wasn't myself. There was like some like my my skin was really bad. There was just like it just felt like there was something incomplete, which I guess there was. Right. Which was a weird feeling to have just on top of the other stuff. Because then it was like, oh, I've been not pregnant for longer than I've been pregnant, but I'm still testing positive for pregnancy. Yes. It's like dealing with a breakup for like longer than the relationship has lasted. It's so true.

It really does feel like that. You're just like, you know, you're watching the clock and the time is ticking and there's still these hormones and they're affecting you physically when you're trying to kind to kind of move forward mentally. Yeah, I could see why that whole thing was tough. And you're like, oh, it's summer and I'm supposed to be like in a good mood. Right. Having fun or, you know.

And it's like, you know, part of you. after that first miscarriage is also like, oh, let me like go and do all the things that I couldn't do when I was pregnant for three weeks. Right. Right. That alcoholic part of you started kicking in. Exactly. So I'm trying to go out and trying to have fun. But there's the sense again of like when you're, you know, when you're at a bar post breakup and you're like, I don't really want to be here. Like I'm here, but like not by choice. I'd rather like be in my relationship. I'd rather be pregnant and have the ability to do all these things. So you're like free, but you don't want to be free.

This episode of Baby Steps is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's almost the end of the year. And this time, while it can be exciting, can also be really stressful. And a lot of people feel a lot of sadness and anxiety about it. And it's not just the stress of finding gifts, but it's also the stress of seeing your family, of it starting to get cold, a little seasonal depression.

But adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings. And therapy for me is always something I go to when I'm feeling anxiety or stress around anything, whether it's the holidays, winter, or just like things that are going on in my life that are not going as I planned. I've been to therapy for over eight years now and nothing has helped me quite as much as therapy has overcome whatever obstacles come my way. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just spell out a brief. questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist anytime for no additional

charge. Find your bright spot this season with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash baby steps today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, HELP.com slash baby steps. And so that was October and then I tried a couple more of those shots. They weren't really working. And then I just decided like, why not just bypass this and do IVF, which at the time, I thought of as like somewhat of a guarantee right can I ask a quick question about the shots were those you did that yourself or you went into the office to do that I went into the office and they would they have to like track your like follicle growth and your cycle to make sure you're like at the exact right date for them to give you the shot and then you have like a weekend to have sex and then that is when you should

for the for the right timing and then they give you a pregnancy test like 10 days later right and that's a whole other topic we could talk about is like this pressured sex to have at the right exact moment, like when you're not. Oh yeah. Yeah. So like so I so I had a couple more of those cycle. Actually, that reminds me. I forgot about that. So I had this October cycle was lasting like 50 days, 45 days, something like that. It was, was, I was not. I kept going into the doctor to try to get to this, try to be ready to take this shot. And something was happening where I was just like not at that phase in the cycle. So I kept having to come back. over and over again.

I finally did the shot. It took like literally three weeks of visits maybe. It didn't work. So I was like, okay, I'm going to take a break in my head. Right. I'm going to take a break from doing this. So I tried to do it like without the shot, just like on my own. But at this point, again, having this PCOS not knowing when you're ovulating.

And when you have PCOS and you take those ovulation stick tests, they'll sometimes be positive and then be negative. and then be positive. Oh my gosh. This sounds like torture. Yeah. Yes. Which is not sexy, which was not like, I think of a fun way to go about it.

So I was like, oh, this is even like less appealing than the other way. How do we get around this whole thing? And then I had another like thyroid issue. It was just like, I think it was just like the stress of all of this stuff and the feeling of like this needs to happen immediately. And everyone around you is like, just relax. It'll happen when it's going to like happen. Just don't.

know, don't overdo it. Even the doctor, I spoke to one, I spoke to a doctor that I had gotten a opinion from at some point. And he was like, you know, like, don't show your husband the sticks. Just like, show him your boob. And I was like, okay, I think we need, I don't know, you're understanding me. Right. Oh, my God. Yeah, I didn't wind up seeing him. So I was kind of like, all right, this whole process is kind of miserable. Let me just try to shorten it. And I think my way of doing things in life had previously been like just knuckle through them just like just like pound it through and then you'll probably make it to the other side so that was sort of the approach that I took with this so I did a retrieval that part went really really well like very lucky in that sense I got a lot of it we got a lot

of embryos and I know a lot of people struggle a lot to get through that part so I want to acknowledge that like I was very lucky in that sense that we did get a lot of embryos sounds like you need a win at that point between everything else, the thyroid and the PCOS and the positive ovulation the next day, it's night. Like, I'm happy that you got a little win there. Thank you. Yeah. It felt, it felt very good at the time. I guess I think a side effect of PCOS is sort of that you get a lot of eggs. Okay. A lot of people, not always, but a lot of people with PCOS have a lot of eggs that they get in the retrieval. So I did that. I'm like, oh, wow, like, I'm set. We are, sorry, we are set. I'm like, we're good.

We're going to have a million kids. It's going to be amazing. Like, how fast can we get this in, right? And so we did a transfer the next month. And it worked. And I'm like, great. I like did what I've always done. I like threw everything at this problem.

And now I fixed it. And now I'm good. And then I get to week, same week as I had had for the first one. And there was no heartbeat. And I remember like, I had been bleeding a bit like the weeks before. You remember because I was calling you like hysterical. And I had been bleeding and I was like so scared.

It felt so fragile. But I went in for like a couple skins and they were like it looks good. Like there's a heartbeat. And they were like in IVF patients, there's more of a tendency to bleed and you're in all likelihood going to be fine. And then it wasn't. And it was like for some reason that the second one was like the hardest day. think of all of this stuff because it was like I felt so sure and I felt like I at this point

I had put in the first one like kind of like it was my first time trying it was like I don't know this one I feel like I really worked for I guess yes I put in the time I put in the effort I went through so many shots to get this retrieval I went through you know this this transfer all the money like it's it is expensive and I'm lucky Mike's company offers very good insurance, which helped pay for a lot of it. But it's still, even with that, still very expensive, still very time consuming and still very like emotionally draining. And I think I just felt like I had done everything right. And I didn't understand why this was happening. Because the embryo was good. It was like a genetically tested embryo. And it was kind of like, I think that was like a mix of

just like fear and panic and despair and grief and just like everything. And I had a little bit of a moment, kind of like we discussed on the most recent oversharing on, I think it's the episode that is, that just came out on Tuesday of like a fuck it. Yes. I've done everything. I went to acupuncture.

I took all the supplements. I was on all the threads. And I was just like all for nothing. Like what's the point? Like. And then I was became like a little bit existential. I think in some ways where I was like, well, what's the point of any of it? Like, why am I doing this?

Why am I in such a rush to do this? Why is it so painful that it's not happening so immediately? Right. Did you have any moments of like, how badly do I really want this? Like maybe I should just let go or the whole time you were like, I see the goal. I'm going to continue moving forward. I think there are moments. They're like, they're moments, but they were literally that. They were like moments of like, because I've just never, I don't know, it just didn't, it didn't, and it still doesn't really seem like an option, like the taking myself out of it entirely.

And I guess that's a different thing to explore. Right. Because there are many people who are happy with kids, happy without kids. And I remember talking to my therapist about that. And he's like, yeah, people have like great lives with whatever. options that they choose or wind up with. But I think thinking that kind of made it feel like by accepting that as an option that I was accepting that as a possibility.

Right. Yes. Yes. And that it's an interesting place where you like let your mind go and you don't let your mind go. I mean, you said that you've spoken to people. Is there anyone who's that you've spoken to that's been on the journey that tried and tried and tried and then just said, okay, I'm just accepting that this isn't going to happen or everybody that you're talking to is still going. I think there's people who took a break.

And maybe that's somewhat of a difference. I don't know. Like, who we're like, I'm just going to not focus on this. Right. But I don't know. Do you think, I mean, as a therapist, is that something that, it feels like giving up? Like, is that something that you would advise? Yeah. I mean, I don't know about advise but I do think like and again we just talked about this the idea of like what can I control here and you it sounds like in this moment that you're referring to this like dark moment that you had it was sort of like I'm going to take the supplements I'm going to do the IVF I'm going to get the eggs we're going to do the shots we're going to do all the things we're going to control everything and then it still doesn't work then that's the moment where I think sometimes it's it's tempting to either go

one way, the way that you went, which I don't know exactly you were about to say it. I kind of cut you off there, but like, fuck it. I'm going to wallow in the hopelessness of this. Or the other piece is like, I'm going to let go and just accept that the universe is going to give me whatever it's going to give me. And there's nothing more that I can do. But I get that temptation to be like, okay, part of me wants to just like wallow and feel terrible and hopeless and angry and frustrated and all those negative things and do perhaps the

negative behaviors that come with that mindset, whether it's just like some type of addictive, numbing, whatever people tend to do in those moments. And the harder one to do is to kind of get, and I think it doesn't have to be either or. It's probably both. But yeah, if you can come to a place eventually of like I've done everything I can. Now all I can do is trust that I am resilient enough to get through whatever is going to happen. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of where I am right now. Right. I think at this point. So anyway, so this happened in April and then it was I had a bunch of tests done because again like I think the scariest thing for me was that the embryos were normal. even though they say that sometimes

they can't test the whole thing they test like a piece of it sometimes it's not fully normal but I did a bunch of tests cariotype tests MRIs like blood tests blood clotting disorders all of that stuff

and they discovered a uterine septum so I had a certain I had a couple of hystroscopy surgeries to remove that and then I started again in September it's interesting before I started again in September, before I decided to do another transfer in September,

I was having a lot of anxiety going into it. Like I took the summer off because basically to get all these tests and these surgeries. So it felt like I felt like it was a break to an extent, even though it was like a working break. Right. Right. But then going back into it, I was starting to feel all that anxiety, so much pressure, so much put on this.

And I remember speaking to a career coach of mine about that. and she was like, what if there wasn't so much judgment on every result? What if it was just an observation? What if you're just like noticing? And you don't take all these like, you don't project all of your fear and anxiety and stuff into every result. And it's just like, oh, that's the number there. This is the level there.

And something about that really resonated with me. Like if I could just go into this it again and I'm still trying. But this time I'm just observing. Right. Instead of like, kind of like the, almost the ultimate goal of meditation, right? Yes.

It's like you're observing your thoughts. Yes. You're not like overtaken by them. Right. Because when you attach every, and this is what ends up making most people anxious and or depressed, is like you take the information that's in front of you and then you attach it to an imaginary story about where that piece of

information is going to lead you for the rest of your life. And most of the time, that story is just that. It's imaginary. It's really probably not going to lead you to that place. Like even if you, you know, go on one date with a guy that you really like, that you were super attracted to and you don't hear from them, just observing that moment of disappointment or whatever that is, it's like, it's just that moment. But what makes it feel like so much more than that moment is, no one's ever going to like me. No, I'm never going to get, have a partner. I'm going to be alone forever.

So it's like the imagination. So I think what you did, which is like, I'm just going to witness what's happening in this moment and not allow my mind, my imagination to take over and write a whole story about the whole rest of my life based on this level of 57 instead of 27 or whatever it is. Yes. And that's the perfect way of putting it. I think I made a decision somewhere along the way.

And again, it's not like instantaneous, but it comes from like a lot of doing a lot of work in this area of like, if I tell myself I'm only going to be happy when I get this, then I'm not going to be happy or I'm going to be happy for a minute and then it's going to be something else like we always talk about. And I think that was really how I felt for the majority of this whole experience was like, I cannot be happy until I achieve this thing. like that is it is completely hinging on this thing

and like I can have a good moment here and there but I will not be like complete or I will not be worthy or I will not be okay until this has happened and I do think that there was a big shift between the second miscarriage and when I went into my most recent transfer

of that of feeling like I have a lot of other things that I'm grateful for, that I'm happy about, that I don't need to have a baby to feel like I belong in this world, in this society, in this friend group, and whatever it is. And I think that was sort of the ultimate thing that I've learned from this whole experience. That's an interesting point that I haven't heard you say before and I haven't really heard is the idea of feeling like you need the baby to. belong, right? Because you start off with the timeline and the friend group and what, you know, there's almost like, can I still come to the party if I don't have a baby? Like, you know, like this idea of belonging because you're kind of doing this same thing. Your lifestyle is the same. So just being aware of that, I'm not saying that's all of it. I'm sure that's a small

portion of it, but it is a portion of it and a portion that maybe you can let go of because it doesn't really, you know, that's not why you're really wanting this. So you can belong. You're wanting it because you want to have those connections with Mike and the baby and, you know, have a family. Yeah. To make a family. Yeah.

And I think it was like a, and to me that, then that dream is still there. It just takes longer. And so why it's kind of like for me, it was a lot of dissecting why I felt like it needed to happen so soon and why it felt like there was such urgency. Yes. With it. And I guess, I mean, and I think that that doesn't mean

that there aren't still days where I have that old thing in my brain, which is like, you know, there's the moms and then there's you or there's like, you know, you see stuff on Instagram and you're like, everyone's hanging out with their kids or like with each other and their kids.

Like there's, that doesn't mean that that's completely gone away. Yes. But it has softened. And I do think that I would have never done this work. if this didn't happen. And so there is a part of me that is grateful for that because it did really happen, I think.

I had to like give up on that, which is good. Yes. Right. You know, it was like against my will that I have now given up the timeline. But nevertheless, I've really questioned like why it was so important. And I think the further into it that I dug, the more I realize that it doesn't really matter. And that's what sometimes I'll ask my patients. Like if you had a crystal ball and you looked at it in it today and it said,

you're going to have one baby when you're 39. And that's what's going to happen. How would that feel? Would that be like, okay, I'm just going to relax so I'm 39 because that's what the crystal ball says. And I'm going to just hang out and do whatever because I know how this outcome is going to turn out. It's not going to be maybe the exact outcome that you would have wanted if you could script it, but you are going to have your baby. and it's, you know, going to be in the time, whatever the time is.

You know, would you be able to relax and be like, all right? What else? So now what? Now what am I going to think about from 34 to 39? I mean, yeah, that's kind of the scary part almost, right? And then when you do that, you kind of realize, like, how you almost use this whole process is a distraction from focusing on other things. What would you literally, you know, there would be something else that you would worry about

from here. What could I be? What could I or like what amazing things could I do with that time? You know, because it's funny because I remember when you were trying to have a baby and I was, or maybe it was after you had already had kids when I was dating and I would say like, if someone just told me that I would like meet someone at this age, like I could just have fun. Yeah.

Wouldn't it be if I could just relax and I could have fun. And I remember you telling me that that you felt that way when you were having kids where, you know, if you could just like imagine all the things. things you could have, and you were saying this because I think you had young kids at the time, and you were like, you know, I would have been sleeping late and I would have just like had just like the best time doing whatever I wanted all the time. Right. But I was doing like ovulation kits and thinking and mentally projecting, well, what if and you know, yeah, the same thing. And look, it's obviously, it's not always, you know, it's easier said than done, but I do think at some point

you can get to that place where you're like, all right, I'm going to release the time. I know that I still want the baby, but I'm going to release the timeline. Like, I'm not going to release the wanting of the baby, but maybe I can release the direction of the exact specifics, which in the grand scheme of the universe of our earth as a ball of spinning rock flying through the universe, the difference of four years or whatever it is is like completely irrelevant. It's like completely irrelevant. I get you want the experience of being a mother. You want the experience of having a family with Mike.

That's less, that's not irrelevant. And there's, you know, even if it's not this way, it could be adoption or whatever. And I don't know if you talk about that. I'd be curious to hear. But the timeline is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, even if you cannot. get to the point of accepting, all right, maybe we'll just be a couple that, you know, doesn't have kids and travels the world and does whatever we want all the time. That's a much harder ask in the world of acceptance. Right. Yeah. And I don't know that I'm there yet. Right. No, and I also don't,

I'm certainly not suggesting that you get there, but I think that, you know, it sounds like you're releasing the control over the timing of it a little bit more. Yeah. Well, I'm trying. Yeah. I did another transfer last month, which wound up being an ectopic pregnancy, I guess, just to finish off this story. And now I am medically managing that. And I took two methotrexate shots, which are supposed to just dissolve it so you can keep your tube.

Very exciting. So I can keep it. So now I still got my two fallopian tubes. And as we are speaking on this podcast, I got a call that it is working. Okay. the shot is working because I had to get another one. So that is where I am in literal real time. Wow.

Okay. It's just the most up-to-date updates for the listeners. And one thing I do think that helped me in this one was before I even went into this transfer, I told you I did, I think I talked about it with you where I did this Reiki healing. Yes. It was all about like your energy going into this. And I remember thinking, because I did this like a week or two before this transfer and

I felt like she was basically like your thoughts or spells. Just go into it. Be positive. Just feel like bring the positive energy to it. And I did it. I was doing like my crystals. I was like lighting like the, the Palosanto stick on all this stuff where I'm like,

okay, I clearly really want this. Right. This is like crazy for me. Like I'm like becoming a crazy person. Yeah, you're not like a crystal palisanto like your thoughts or spells kind of. Right. Yes.

I'm very much like science. logic everything like you know chemicals whatever and so but I did this and then it didn't work and part of me was like well that didn't work fuck the crystals that was my like initial thought the crystals get flung into the garbage can or do you still have the crystals I was like did I not charge them correctly I don't know what is going on here that was my initial thought but then I was like no one told me that having a positive attitude meant it was going to happen immediately. And I think there's this expectation that whatever you're doing and so much around this fertility stuff is like if I do X, then it'll be like the secret.

That'll be like the thing that I need to finally get over the finish line. Like if I do the acupuncture, maybe that's the one thing that I was missing. Maybe the supplements are the one thing that I was missing. What I've noticed from that is like I actually I think still came out of it much more positive than if I didn't do it. Right. So it sounds like it's more almost, and this is the, I think you're touching on what I think is the key for a lot of people is like the positive attitude or the positive mindset. It's not about making the thing happen that you want to happen. It's about learning to trust that you will be okay, even if the thing doesn't happen. Because then you're less scared the next time of the thing not happening because you start to trust like, okay, I can do this. I can do this. I can. do hard things. I can get through this. So I do think even physically then it does start to create more big picture changes in your lowering cortisol levels, stress hormone levels,

just like kind of allowing you to have relaxed mind and relaxed body over the long term of like, I am not so petrified of this thing not happening that every thought is like so powerful. Every test result is like, you know, the most powerful thing that now keep the crystals. Hold them and realize it's a long game. And if you can realize, okay, oh my gosh, this happened for the third time. I never would have thought that I would be able to not only tolerate it, but get to the place where you are here being recorded, talking about it with a smile on your face. like you're not crying in a pillow unable to function, you're showing up, you're helping people, you're doing good things with it. Totally. And that's resilience, right? And that, and like you said,

like I did it before. If it happens again, I can, I'll be fine. I'll come out on the other side of it again. And that was a big thing that I think I've learned. And I'm, you know, I'm proud of that. And I think that I'm, I'm a better person for it. And I think around that, around that resilience note is like one other thing that I remember thinking when I was dating or hearing from my therapist, because I would go through these three month things and I would be so devastated when, you know,

the person didn't want to commit or it didn't wind up being a relationship. And I remember with my therapist, I was like, I'm glad that this happened in a way. Because like, the more of these you do, the more you realize, like, you'll be okay. You can go in and have fun. And if it doesn't work, you'll be okay. Like, you could have a good time. You can have a fun three months. And then it doesn't turn into like your husband and you still had a good time. And like the more like

failed ones you have, the more you know that. And I do think the more you trust in your own resilience, the more that's like we talked a few months ago about, you know, manifesting. And it's like, no, I don't think saying I'm going to get a Lamborghini is going to get you a Lamborghini, but I do think that saying I trust in my resilience. I know I'll be okay because I've been okay can help you even in the relationship example, like relax into a relationship so you're not so on edge wired and making the person on the other end who maybe does have a little avoidant attachment like super triggered and run away after three months because you're you know if if that person ends it I've been okay because I've gone through this three times already and I didn't end up in a mental

hospital I went to work the next day and maybe I cried on the way home or maybe I cried myself to sleep for a couple weeks but I'm okay I pick my head up yeah I have friendships I can I can get through it so I think that's really the key to it all is like learning to trust that you can't control the bad thing from happening, but you can build resilience through your experience and positive attitude with it. So I'm glad you're in this place. And I know it's not, you know,

maybe as soon as we hang up, you're going to go down a rabbit hole about whatever test result you just got. That's quite possible. No, I really do think that like that attitude is the only way to get through it. If you're listening, I think that like it's not, doesn't happen overnight.

it doesn't happen every day even when you feel like you've got it down. Like a lot of days I feel really good and I feel really like happy with where I am in life and I have other things that I'm doing and other things that will fill me. And sometimes you see a picture and it makes you feel shitty and you feel shitty for like an hour and then you can continue on about your day. And it's interesting what you said about like the relationship thing and you know the way that you go into a relationship when you know you'll be okay no matter what. And in this case it kind of feels like you're in a relationship with your body. Yes.

In some ways. Yes. Because you know, you want your, I'm like, I'm kind of like, how do I like yell and I'm, because I've tried like the whole like whipping my body into shape to like do what I wanted to do. And that method, just like when you're in a relationship with anyone else, usually doesn't have the best results. But if you like give your body some grace. And if you tell your body like, we'll try it this time.

If it doesn't work, we've got it the next time. Like we're in this together. It's not. Because that's really like, I mean, not to be like cheesy and maybe we'll end this on somewhat of a cheesy note. But like your relationship with your body is the longest lasting relationship you're going to have. Totally. And body and mind. So like the way you talk to yourself, like the way you actually treat your physical body and the way you talk to yourself and how kind you can be and positive and hopeful, the same way you would want to talk to a friend that was going through a hard time.

you know like nobody wants to have a best friend that's like oh my god again what's the matter with you like i can't believe this is happening you're never going to get a baby like nobody you would not want a friend like that but sometimes we tolerate our own conversations with ourselves that sound kind of like that yeah and what better time to work on your relationship with yourself than before you have kids totally because eventually it's not you know there's less space for you to do that work. And you're going to have all these lessons to come back to with your kids to be able to explore.

That's the best way that I, like whenever I want to get a point through to my kids about something, I kind of have to tell them a story about, that I went through something similar. So they know that I get it and they know that I've been through something and that I understand what it feels like and kind of a, here's what happened and here's how I handled it. is the best way I think to relate to anybody, but I do think at some point. If you never had any heartache or issues, like how would you, how can you guide others? Yes. So what you're going through right now is, I hate to say this. I mean, I'm about to say it, but like, do it. I was going to say it's meant for you in some way. You'll figure that out what that is

and it sucks and suffering sucks. And I wish that this is going to be behind you sooner than later. but I think every day that you continue to go through it, you are building strength and building resilience. And not just for this, because once you have your baby, like you said, there's going to be some other thing. Nobody gets out alive. There's going to be some other thing that's going to end up feeling like, oh, my gosh, I am not, it's going to feel for a second like I will not be okay if X, Y, or Z happens.

Right. Or unless I get whatever. Yes. Yeah. So, you know, you're proving, the proof is in the pudding and you're proving it to yourself. But I'm so glad that you're doing this and that, you know, that we're doing it together and that you're getting some experts to, you know, kind of give you some real steady guidance. And this is just such a great idea.

Thank you. Yeah. And I know you guys are going to love the rest of these episodes. Again, we wanted to keep it a little separate than the oversharing feed because I know some people, some people don't want kids and some people don't give a shit. about hearing about other people's experiences with kids, which I totally validate. Maybe you should get one of them on the show to just kind of be like, these are all the reasons why I have no interest in this.

Here's the thing. Going through this, I love hearing from people who don't want kids. I think it's like, I'm like, tell me more. Like, you know what I mean? It's like. Right. Because those are people who are like, why? You know what I mean?

There's something that feels good. And some people don't think this maybe, but there's something that feels good about someone just like. just like shit talking something that you're trying to get but don't have. Yes, I can see that being sort of healing. Or just like the idea that like this isn't a thing that, you know, this is a thing that many people don't have by choice and are fully happy and fulfilled by. And I think that takes a little bit of the edge again of that like timeline.

Belonging. The belonging piece. Yes. The belonging thing. And I admire that so much because that's not a popular societal thing to say. it's becoming a little bit more so, but it's not something that used to be, you know, super accepted. And so I think that anything that goes against a traditional path that makes people happy is amazing. But anyway, that's not for this podcast.

Yeah, different audience. But I like it. I'm excited. I can't wait to listen to all the interviews. Good stuff. Thank you. Yeah. We'll do a little debrief on them as we go.

But thank you so much for joining me today. And I think you've really, you know, as my makeshift therapist and as my older sister who's seen it all, you know, I love having you on the show. And I love personally going to you for advice because just like one of your kids, like, you're 10 years older than me. Like you probably have been through one of the things that I'm going through. Yes. Yes. And even looking back, I'm kind of like, I, you know, getting pregnant the first time was not the easiest thing for me either. And if I didn't have to go through that, I really wouldn't probably be able to connect. to you on some of the stuff that you've been going through and feel like I had something to share other than, oh, sorry, that sucks. Right. Yeah. And so I think every experience is really like building and serving people in ways that they might not even be clear to them.

Right. So this was great. I hope you guys enjoy the show. If you have any comments or questions, you can email oversharing at betches.com. And this show meant a lot to me. I put a lot of my heart and effort and thought into doing it. And I hope you guys really love it. it. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Thanks again to our presenting sponsor BetterHelp.

I hope this episode has been a help to you on your path to parenthood. If you want to get started with therapy, I highly recommend trying BetterHelp. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Baby Steps today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P.com slash Baby Steps. Betches.