Oversharing - Is It A Betrayal To Air Your Relationship Dirty Laundry?

Episode Date: October 11, 2022

Jordana is still on island time –sorry the Hawaii vacation is over– and Naomi welcomes her back with a debrief of the latest U Up? With Benefits episode she caught. Then a listener calls in to the Oversharing hotline with a question about venting to your friends and family about your relationship. How much can you air your dirty laundry before it becomes something you’ll regret? They debate the pros and cons of sharing your relationship frustrations when it may be difficult to walk back your comments later on. Plus, they discuss the danger of coming off as insincere if you fail to disclose enough about relationship struggles. Then they dive into a Betchicist question about trying to recover from an experience of emotional betrayal with a partner. A listener writes in with a story about her husband’s nicotine addiction having a traumatic impact on her birth experience, and why she can’t seem to get over it. Finally, they tackle a trio of Triggered scenarios about a boyfriend talking in his sleep, a bride-to-be’s mom making a rude joke, and a boyfriend who charges rent. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham and I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. So good to be back. Last week we had a recording break, although we did release an episode because I was in Hawaii.

So that was great. I'm back. So I've missed you and I feel like you just scooted out to Hawaii and scooted right back. I didn't get to hear anything much about it. So how was it? It was great. It was like the perfect, you know what to me? It's the perfect trip for like what I needed, I think too.

It was just like completely different environment. Like it felt like a real break because it's also like six hours behind New York. So it just felt like I was like very off the grade, a little. bit. Right. Disconnected, which maybe you needed. Exactly. Disconnected. And just like it was the perfect getaway. It was like a great trip for the moment. I like needed, I needed it in a way that I didn't realize, I think, until after I came back. So it was really nice. Totally. Hawaii, I mean, we went there on our honeymoon. That was like, it's like my favorite place. I feel like because it's an island in the middle of the ocean, when you get off the plane, it just smells different. The whole vibe is.

different. It kind of feels like sort of untouched, even though I'm sure it's, you know, very touristy in some ways, but. Right. It's kind of got it all. It's got like the touristy stuff. It's got like the hotels that are like nice and polished. Then there's like places you can drive that are very like, again, kind of like in nature off the grid. So you got, you really get it all. Awesome. You know, while you were gone for the first time became a U-Up subscriber. What is it? you up with benefits subscriber. So I got to hear a couple little tidbits that I hadn't heard before, which was really interesting because we don't get to catch up as often as we probably like.

We come on this show and that's pretty much our catch up for the week. So it was really cool. And I wanted to tell you that I just think it's awesome that you do these extra bits that are sort of more personal and intimate and kind of where you're really vulnerable, I appreciate. And I think it's very refreshing. When I talk about meeting new friends as an adult, I always think it's hard because the only people that I connect with are the people that are really able to be vulnerable. Otherwise, it just feels like chit-chat and it just feels really kind of surface level. So I really appreciate somebody that is okay enough with themselves

to be vulnerable in front of other people and the fact that you do it on the air with Jared. And Jared, too. I have to give him a lot of credit. He kind of opens up a lot too. Yeah, he goes there, which is really nice. Well, that's a great ad for you of benefits. Thank you. I feel like a little more comfortable with it, I think, because it's behind a paywall. So it feels less like, you know, it's funny.

We talk about like, you know, gossip. I think that's like sort of an impediment to being vulnerable, especially when you're on a public platform, like a podcast. And so when it's behind the paywall, there is like a little bit extra of like a cushion where it's like you can't just send this to someone to like dissect the person also has to, if they want to do that, they have to pay. Right. So it makes it feel like a little bit more of a cushion to the public for intimacy, which I mean, the amazing thing about therapy, obviously, is that it's such a confidential relationship. Right. To where you feel like you can say anything.

And not just because the person legally can't tell anyone, but also just because they don't really like know anyone that you know or it's really just like a very one-on-one relationship, which I think is like the beauty of therapy, which it does feel like therapy because it's behind that paywall. It's a one-on-one thing. But it's a nice way to kind of mimic that. And, you know, what we do here definitely has elements of that. But again, this is not behind a paywall. You're welcome.

So it can be, I do have that in the back of my head when, you know, when we share or discuss. Right. Like these people are real fans. they really like you. It probably feels like they really care about you and aren't going to use your, I mean, I'm not saying it's true, but maybe it feels like they're not going to use your personal stuff as, you know, against you or is in an evil way because if they're subscribing, they probably kind of like you as a person and, you know, care for you. But I thought it was really cute that you and Jared were sort of doing this little therapy session with each other. Like I just,

I really got warm feelings towards the both of you after listening to it. So, yeah, you up with benefits. It's a great little sneak peek into the real lives of you and Jared. So I liked it. And it was my first time listening. So I've been waiting to tell you that. I love that. That you miss me so much. You paid to hear me. Yes, that's exactly what happened. I want more of Jordan. Well, I missed you too. I missed our recording. But I'm excited we have our sister's wedding this Friday. So we're going to be able to fully catch up in person. Totally. Big hugs. I'm excited for all. that. Me too. How have you been? Yeah, everything's good. Just, you know, busy with regular life and the kids have so many activities. It's crazy. You know, the different stages of life, but it's like,

literally between the orthodontists and basketball and volleyball and lessons and parent teacher conferences and like, it's just. Oh, there's three of them. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot. You know, there's three of them. So, but it's all good stuff. I love it. Like, I feel like I'm living, I remember going to Talia, Talia's our sister who's about to get married, going to her softball game. When I must, I was probably like, I don't know, 23 or something. And I brought munchkins. Like, I wanted to be the soccer mom even when I was, you know, not a mom. So now I'm the soccer mom.

I'm finally living the dream. That's funny. Does it make you understand why I guess no one picked us up for any of our activities? Not really. I'm like, if I can manage this, I could do this. I can. There are eight of us, I guess. but they're all, you know, they were so spread apart in ages.

But no, it is. I can see why with eight kids, it would be really challenging. If I showed you a picture of the calendar on my fridge, it's insane. It's just there's a lot of stuff. But it's all good. It's all, you know, happy, joyful, healthy children's stuff. So I'm happy to say that. That's a nice way to look at it.

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. All right. Well, I'm sure we'll have a lot more family drama to go over after the wedding next week when we record. But no, so that, I mean, if I'm being honest, yeah, it's all good kids stuff. There's a little bit in the back of my mind of like, how is this wedding going to go.

You know, so we've talked about it a little bit when I went to the last one that you weren't at. But there's always a little bit of anxiety of bringing all the personalities together and how that's going to turn out. So if I'm being honest, there's a little thread of that. Yeah. No, it's funny. I'm glad to hear you commiserate on that because I have that in the back of my of my head too, where it's like, I'm excited to see her. I'm excited, but I'm nervous.

Yeah. Feels like you're going to like a high school reunion or something like that. Right. Who's mad at me? And how am I going to navigate that? And they're, you know, all the different people. But I'm excited to see all the kids, all the nieces nephews, all the siblings. It's going to be great.

Yeah. And I really think this is the first one where I think every, all of the siblings are going to be there, which is because of your wedding, it was still. kind of like COVID-ish. Although now, I don't know, seems like that's just kind of becoming a thing. But anyway, I think everyone is going to be there for this one. So that should be really nice. We can get some good family photos.

Yeah, I'm very excited. Don't worry, guys. We'll give you the main updates on the wedding when we come back. Should we get into today's overshare? We have a voicemail. Yeah, it's always fun. And if you guys want to leave us a voicemail, you can leave us a voicemail at 646-363-6294. this is a great question. Sometimes for some people, it's easier to say it than email. And if you want to email it,

you can email oversharing at betches.com. But let's play it. Let's get into it. Hi, I have an oversharing question, big fan on the pod. But one thing that I do, if I am upset with my significant other, I automatically will just like go vent to friends or family or like kind of who's ever around. like my coworkers, the most automatic. Like if my connection and other is pissing me off, I'll just like go back about it to somebody. And then obviously we always figure it out and communicate eventually. And it all turns out fine.

But then I feel very anxious about sharing all of that personal information with other people and just like clearly oversharing about my relationship. And I am wondering if you have any advice on how to stop doing that when I am heated or anger you're upset, but I can avoid that anxiety that happens afterwards. Thank you. So I love this question because I often have this question in the back of my mind when I want to complain about my husband to various people where I'm like, because on the one hand, I think it's really helpful and it's really nice. But on the other, it's kind of like, am I betraying like sort of a a sacred relationship thing by discussing my problems with someone else. I mean, for myself personally,

I have the added layer of having a podcast where, like, I was supposed to talk about my relationship. But then I'm like, is like what is okay to share? What should be private? What's, you know, airing your dirty laundry, as they say. And who gets to hear this stuff? Right. So more interesting for you. Have you ever came into a recording feeling like, oh, I could really spill on this. one. I'm heated right now and I just want to, because you and Jared are like friends too, especially on that podcast or like me and you are obviously sisters on this podcast. I'm sure there's some filter, but have you ever gone into a recording kind of saying more than you wanted to? Yeah. So there is an element that I'd like to protect him, but I think I'm pretty good at knowing

what's like a real issue that needs like a lot of thought put into it and like a dumb fight. That's easy podcast fodder. Right, right. Yeah. But generally speaking, especially if it's like a more, like a deeper issue, I will either ask him if I can discuss it. If he feels comfortable with me discussing it before going into that. Or I have a kind of a rule generally that. And if I have to ask, I kind of usually know the answer.

But I do have a rule that if it's like a bigger thing, like I try not to discuss it until we've resolved it personally. So that it's not being shared with everyone else before we've had a chance to. like we get into a fight and we don't fully resolve it. I'm not going to go talk about it before we've had a chance to like fully work through it. Totally. Yeah, that makes sense. That's a good rule of thumb. Obviously being on air is different. But I've, you know, I have this issue with a lot of couples that are early, you know, that are in early stages of being serious or getting married where, you know, like this listener is asking, they'll vent to their family. You know, they'll vent to their parents or their siblings about their significant other.

and that can create a lot of problems because then they start to feel, you know, the family starts to get angry or have feelings about it and it creates tension. Like there are some things that I, you know, think are better left between the two of you, but then what do you do with all of that emotion that you have in that moment where you're like, I need validation on this. I think that's really what it is. Right. Right. You're venting. You're looking for someone to tell you, oh, my God, I can't believe he said that or that, you know, you're right or you're not crazy. right, you're not overreacting or something like that. Yes.

So you're looking for the validation, but you have to be really careful because people don't forget things. And, you know, depending on what it is, it can really change the relationship between then your significant other and your friends or family. And that sometimes is harder to undo. Like the two of you can make up because you're in this intimate relationship and you're going to work on it and have the conversation that needs to be had and, communicate, but your mother and your significant other or your sister and your significant other

aren't always necessarily going to have the time or the desire to sit down and work out something that they feel about each other based on your third party recollection of what happened. So now it just kind of sits there and gets stale and kind of gets, you know, is poisonous to their relationship because they're not going to sit over dinner and like work it out. So I think that can be a problem. But as far as what to do, I think if you really do feel like you have to talk about it, what I would do is I would pick like one person. And I used to do this when I was younger before I learned how to kind of be patient with myself

and relax into my emotions and needed to communicate immediately. I would pick a friend who lived far away, who probably wasn't going to have that much interaction with my significant other. And I would talk to that one person. and I would pick one person that I always spoke to instead of what it sounds like this listener's doing, which is just talking to whoever's in front of her at the time. Her co-workers or family. Right.

Right. And sometimes I guess if you're around those people at the same time, it's almost like you can't even help it. Like if you're fighting with someone at a family function, you kind of like, it have to sort of say something because you're so in it. I could see. Or you have to say something, even if it's not the full. And then also the other thing. I mean, I agree with you about that. I think it's like it's nice to have your own personal issues,

be your own personal private issues. But then I would always think it was weird if I had a friend and they would like break up with their boyfriend sort of out of nowhere. And I'd never heard that anything was wrong. Or the boyfriend breaks up with them. And you're kind of like, you kind of let on that you had this like great, perfect relationship. And so now I kind of feel like I don't even really know you.

Like, do we have an intimate. relationship where we can share things if there's this whole like when someone has like a sudden breakup and you're like I didn't even know you had any issues like I thought we were friends it seems weird that you wouldn't tell me that you know a hundred percent and I think that speaking to the like you're doing speaking to the friendship it's hard because a lot of times if you if one of the big things that's you know taking up space in your mind is your significant other and your relationship with your significant other but you're not talking about that it can create like a lack of intimacy in that relationship, the friendship, where you're feeling like you're not

really talking about what's really on your mind. And now there's like this distance that grows and you're just talking about the weather or saying everything's great when it's not because you want to, you know, protect your relationship. So I think, you know, I agree that you have to find that balance between being able to be honest with your friends about your relationship. But again, and this is like my broken record thing about like calm body, like being able to take that minute or 10 or 20 or whatever it is and like, see if you can just calm yourself. And then when you're talking about what happened,

it's going to come off in less of a angry, one-sided way. So it's not going to paint your significant other in such a negative light. Where like you said, once you kind of calm down and you talk about the issue, you can kind of talk about his side too. Right. So you're not just like throwing him under the bus.

You're talking about it in a way that's like, this is what's going on. This is what I hope to, you know, work out with him at some point when we talk about this or whatever it is. So I think if you can calm your body first and really come to a place where you're like, okay, this is what I feel about this. I'm either feeling it or I'm thinking about it. But I'm not feeling it while I'm,

or I'm not thinking about it while I'm feeling it because, is then the thoughts are not going to be as clear and as, you know, accurate. I like that idea, too, to like, because I think that's sort of the most important part. And I kind of agree what you're saying about the friend who's not, who, like, lives far away and isn't involved. But I also kind of feel like sometimes there is a benefit to someone who knows you guys really well and knows that person really well and can kind of like, again, especially if you're telling it to them in a comment or, well, I have, where I've had friends where, you know,

we discuss our relationships or all say, you know, like, again, I think I think you're totally right. I think in the immediacy after, it's never a good idea. Like, but once you have a calm sort of stance about it and then you can sort of, but it can still be an issue even if you're calm. So I can, I like the idea of like, you have lunch with a friend and you're like, can I get your take on something? Right. We've been having this sort of like ongoing disagreement about this thing. and he wants this and I want that and like it just we just can't really seem to agree on it and sometimes that person knowing the both of you

or knowing knowing you really well or knowing you know generally what that other person is like can bring an interesting fresh perspective to it well it's like well you know when he did this it did seem like they remind you of good things about the person or remind you that that feeling that you're feeling in the moment isn't necessarily as accurate as you and your one track mind can

can think about it. Right. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think it just, it leads me to the next piece of advice, which is pick your people carefully, you know, like pick a person that's not going to get all worked up and angry and fuel your fire or, you know, pick someone who's kind of level-headed, who may have a perspective that's, you know, going to, you know, just be something that's thoughtful and, you know, not something that that is going to create issues. between the two of them or it's going to be something that's going to be hard to untangle. So, yeah, if you have a friend that you that knows the person and might try to help you understand your partner or have a perspective that's going to be helpful versus, I think,

picking somebody that's just going to be like, what an asshole, dump in. Right. Yeah. Someone with a more grounded perspective than that potential. Grounded perspective. Yeah, I think is helpful. So if you have, if you want a vent, that's what friends are for, right? I think that's okay. But I think you have to do. do it with people that are going to be helping you. I mean, yeah, maybe you do have to break up with the person. That's possible, but it's not going to be this reactive, you know, break up with him. It's going to be like a thoughtful, well, you know, you did bring this up a few weeks ago. So this is something that's been happening a lot. You know, what do you think or, you know,

someone that you said, like you said, is going to have a grounded perspective. So I think, try to calm down before you address this. And journaling, I think is another thing that's really helpful. like if you're feeling like I just need to spew. Sometimes just like taking out, you know, a note on your phone or a journal and just like getting it all out and then saying like, okay, I kind of cleanse the system. Now I can find my friend and just talk about it with a more level-headed approach is maybe another piece of advice. Right. And I like that. And it's like, again, I think what you said, the most important thing is finding someone that you have an intimate relationship with that isn't, you know, not necessarily your co-workers.

or someone who we might have, because when you start doing that, that might be a good sign that you might be ready for like a therapist also, just because like a therapist is obviously the ideal candidate for these kinds of conversations. It's 100% private. They're not there to like, I doubt a therapist is saying he's such an asshole he's doing. Like they'll have like a and they know your history and that's basically their job is to take that information and break it down for you in a way that is helpful, like, that's like the whole point is that it's a helpful, constructive conversation instead of something that's getting someone else just, like, riled up alongside with you. Right. So if all else fails, if you really can't help yourself, I would consider that as an

option, too. But yeah, this does seem like a, like a journaling thing would be held. I mean, I have, from my youth, I don't do it as much anymore, but from the time that I was, I don't know, maybe 16 to probably 26 or just pages and pages. And it's really interesting actually to read it back now of those moments where it's just like letting it all kind of hang out. And it's helpful. So that might be something that you can do. I like that. And then pick carefully. So let it all out, then come to calm body and then pick carefully of. And you know, it's precious. You know, that information about your relationship, I think if you treat it as like precious information because it is and choose the people that you are wanting to lean into intimate friendships with as like,

and then are intimate with you. Right. Exactly. Because I think that's also the other part of it. And that's really when it's most helpful is I think when someone's like, I've been through something like that too. Or you get a sense of like, okay, this isn't a problem that only I have or this isn't a feeling that I only get that everyone, other people who are married get this feeling about your relationship. I think that that also kind of helps build the sense of like, oh, is it like, is it normal to feel this way sometimes? And most of the time it is, but a lot of people just don't talk about it. Right. Most people do only talk about the positive aspects of their relationship. But I think if you are in an intimate friendship, that's sort of like the best part of it is that

that you can feel safe discussing that kind of thing with someone. And then they can give you a perspective that either they've gone through. We're just saying that they felt that too. And then you don't have to feel like it's this crazy way that you're thinking. Right. I totally agree. So, yeah, that's a good kind of summary of this is like if you're going to give people private information, use it as a connection with that person instead of just like,

you know, I'm going to spew this out and then kind of be regretful after. because it is connecting. It isn't, you know, a lot of times friendships do start to fade because we're not sharing these types of things and then it starts to feel fake. Like you said with a friend who everything seems perfect and then all of a sudden they're broken up and you're like, whoa, every conversation that we had where I was like, how are things going with you and Joe? And it's like, oh, great.

And now all of a sudden you're broken up. It just feels like it kind of ends up being phony. So, all right. Well, I hope that this helps. I think a lot of people have this issue. Totally. And I think just being mindful about it is an amazing first step. Just thinking like thinking about it critically about who do I want to share with.

What do I want to share? And how do I want to share? And I think if you're doing all those things thoughtfully, you can definitely like do this and have it actually be a really helpful practice to you. Agree. I'm writing in here and realizing it is the first step. So I agree doing it thoughtfully. Great advice.

Should we get into our betcha assist email? Yeah, let's do a betcha assist email. I'll read it. Yeah, sounds good. Okay, hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I've never written into a podcast before, but once I started listening, I thought you ladies might be able to shed some light on my difficult situation. My question is, how do you get over a non-cheating betrayal? My husband of four years loves me so much. I know he really cares about me, but our relationship has completely changed since the day I walked into the hospital to give birth to our amazing son. I gave birth in 2021. Many hospitals at this time had strict COVID rules. I knew my husband, who has smoked cigarette since he was 17 years old, would have a hard time. Once I was admitted, he would not be able to leave my room. I warned him of this. He promised me he would be okay. Anyways, when I was admitted, I was having a severe form of preeclampsia called

Help Syndrome. My liver was in failure and the doctors were very worried that I would have a seizure at any moment. The treatment is induction. It took four days for my doctor to rule the induction of failure and to do an emergency C-section. During the four days in the hospital, my husband was rude to all the nurses, he never held my hand, barely spoke to me, yelled at everyone who came into the room, not about his wife, but about why he couldn't walk outside. He was of course craving a cigarette and acting like a complete asshole. One nurse even asked me if I wanted him to be forced out. I cried for four days straight. I even begged him to leave. Eventually my husband couldn't take it anymore and left a few hours after my son was born. Soon after he left,

I bled out and almost died. I told the nurses not to call my husband, but instead call my mother, who ended up staying with me and my son in the hospital for two weeks before they let me go home. When we got home, my husband still gave me a hard time and was not acting like the person I married. Flash forward, my son is one year old. I've tried to forgive and forget. We've had many positive conversations where he's apologized for his behavior. But I still can't seem to get past. this. In my head, the time I needed him the most he was not there for. I never thought he could do that to me. Any thoughts on how I could move past this and not hold this grudge against him? I want to forgive him, but I just can't seem to. I never felt more alone than I did in that hospital.

Thank you in advance. I really appreciate you both, a betrayed betch. Wow. This sounds kind of traumatic. Yeah, extremely traumatic. Yeah. the whole, I mean, just the whole experience, let alone the relationship piece, but yeah. Yeah, the whole, like all of that put together for sure. Yeah, I mean, it's really, it's funny because, like, you don't think of, I mean, you think of smoking as an addiction, obviously, but you don't think of it as one that really has any consequences on any one that, but the person who's smoking. Like, unlike something like alcoholism or, or something like that, or drugs where you think of, you know, their personality completely changing. I don't think of that for a cigarette smoker, generally speaking. But this clearly was sort of a isolated experience that probably doesn't happen very common where it could bring out those addictive tendencies you generally think of with, you know, more hard drugs or alcohol or something.

Right. Right. The addiction piece came to mind for me too. And it was almost like really the perfect storm, you know, like forcing this person who's probably smoked every day of his life for the last 10 years or whatever it is to then be in the hospital, like with his wife who's sick and a baby who's coming and not be able to have a cigarette and not be a, I mean, it's a stressful situation for anyone, let alone someone who's like immediately detoxing off of an extremely, nicotine is an extremely addictive substance. So yeah, the addiction piece of this came to mind and that's where kind of the recovery piece comes to mind in terms of how does she get over this. If this really is an isolated incident, which I'm curious about.

I really wish we had a little bit more information. Like, does this type of thing ever happen? Or was this seriously just, you know, because of this addiction? I can't imagine any other scenario in which the person would not be allowed outside for four days. Right. Unless they were on like a really long, even the flight is not four days. But still, I could see again how this would be like even fine. It's like an isolated incident.

But even in that instance, you got to see sort of like, the worst aspect of his personality that is possible. Clearly it's possible because it happened. Right. And I can see why she'd be like, I, like, the idea that that would happen ever again would be like terrifying. Right. I'll like completely unacceptable and like the end, probably.

But the other part that is confusing to me is that she said when she got home, he was and he had had two weeks to smoke all the cigarettes that he wanted. he was still not being nice to her. So that part's kind of hard to wrap my head around. If this really was just like a withdrawal symptom, then he was still not being kind even after she got home after going through this. So that part is tough to wrap your head around.

As far as answering the question about how to recover, and I say this with anything, any type of betrayal that a couple is recovering from, is it's not a one and done. It's not like we have one conversation about this. The person apologizes and then that's it. And you forgive them and then it's over. This, especially with a betrayal to this extent,

like any betrayal or an affair or any type of chronic lying where someone's been lying for a long time about something, this is something that has to continue to be addressed. I'm not saying every single day, but like periodically continue to be. be addressed in conjunction with continued behavior change. So that's the part that I'm curious about, is he continuing to make efforts towards never having this happen again? What's his explanation for why he was not kind to her in the two weeks after she got home? Or the two weeks, you know,

she had two weeks to kind of get his nicotine and get back to his homeostasis with that. And she came home with a new baby and he still wasn't nice to her. So like, why? what's going on with that? How is he addressing it? And are they continuously having the conversation where he's saying, you know, and this is what I say for affairs too, just out of the blue, coming to the person and saying, I haven't forgotten what I did to you. I'm still thinking about what happened. I still am sorry about that. And I still want to know, is there anything that I can do moving forward to make you feel safer in the relationship? So maybe they're not doing enough of that. And it's just like, okay, we've had a conversation or two.

She writes positive conversations where he's apologized. I don't know. Maybe that's not sufficient for her to feel like there's real change. Or I feel like maybe there's still perhaps some inklings of this type of personality trait there. And there's no guarantee that it wouldn't ever happen again to me without any, at least some sort of attempt on his part to quit. It doesn't seem like that's even been a discussion or a possibility. I do wonder if that would make her feel better. Yeah.

Because, I mean, even again, even if this never happened again, I think it would probably make her feel better to know that he has taken steps. Like, just the act of trying to quit to me would be, to me, I think would be a sign that the person actually did feel really badly about it. Right. Even if again, that wouldn't, I do think it's probably unlikely that a scenario of this exact type would happen again. Right. It's true.

You'd have to like, I'm like, okay, we're going. going to take a trip to nonstop flight to Australia and you're going to be like nasty. Even that is like less than two days, but still, yeah. Yeah, but I see what you're saying. It's almost like the gesture of, right. Yeah, right. Or another kid. Yeah, I can see why she would be terrified to have another kid and go into the room with him again.

Yeah. Right. I agree. I do think somehow the idea of him quitting shows that he understands the effect that his smoking had on her and is going to do whatever he can to make sure that never happens again. So yeah, I don't, you know, she's kind of putting it on herself. It sounds like, well, he's apologized. What more can I do? Like, what more can he do? I need to kind of get over this and I want to forgive him. But I think I would honestly, another one on this, I would recommend some couples

therapy on this because this is a big trauma. This isn't a little thing. This isn't. It might, like you said, just feel like, okay, it was cigarettes. And so, like, how bad do we really need to go to therapy because he's addicted to cigarettes? But the ramifications of it in that way were very serious, you know, her being alone in that situation and not just, I mean, it would have been better if she was alone. Right. He was like, he was an active negative force. Right.

Yeah. So I think that they probably need to really do some more work on this than just a couple of positive conversations because this is something that was seriously traumatic for her. and he needs to be part of her process in dealing with that trauma. Because it wasn't just the physical trauma. It was, you know, the physical trauma as well as his kind of abandonment in that moment. So this is really serious. You have a right to be upset.

I can see why if you guys are not really leaning into this in a serious way, why it's not going away. This isn't something that's going to go away after a couple of positive conversations. I think you should bring up the idea that if you guys can't do it yourself, and have, you know, some more deeper conversations about this that maybe you do get some help from a therapist in terms of how to heal from this because this is a big deal. Totally. And I mean, she calls it like a non-cheating betrayal, which I think is accurate. I don't think, like, she probably in her head is like, it's not like he cheated on me.

Why would we need to? And maybe this is probably exactly how he thinks in his head. It's like, I'm not like I cheated on her. Why? Like, she should just let it go. It was like a bat. Like we had a fight. Right. But it can, I mean, in some ways, it can feel like, like just, I'm sure, just as intense or just as big of a betrayal or just as big of a sense of like, can I trust you? Right. Again, to be there for me in that point. And I think that if she labels it what it actually is, which is like this severely traumatic

betrayal on par with cheating, then I think that it wouldn't seem as weird to you, the idea of going to therapy to figure it out or that it would take a longer time. And I don't know that either of them has like fully, has fully taken in that it's that big of a deal. Yes, and it's true. It's like almost which box do you put it in? There's no box for this, but aside from the fact that, you know, just based on her own experience, she probably needs some therapy, just based on what happened, even if the husband was the best husband in the world and was there, you know, holding her hand and giving her wet towels on her forehead the whole time, this is still

something she might need therapy on. So I think that they need to lean into this a little bit harder, and that might help her move forward through it. Because the hard part is it's hard to forgive someone when you don't really know what's changed. Like you did this terrible thing. Nothing's really changed except for the fact that you said, you're sorry. Right.

You have to see some type of, and that's why I think like you said, almost the quitting smoking or doing something that's like an everyday intention towards not doing this again is going to show that there's like an actual change being made versus just, sorry, I won't do that again, which just doesn't feel like it holds as much weight. Yeah. Or even like the act of the therapy, I think, would be a sign that the person actually felt.

Because you do want to feel like if this was so impactful for you that the person isn't just brushing it off, which it sounds like he's doing. So. Yeah. I would agree with that. So yeah, you need a little bit more than what, I don't think this is your issue that you're not able to forgive him just based on a few positive. conversations. I think this is something that needs more than a few positive conversations. So I'm glad that you wrote in and I hope that you take this to heart and that you guys can see some real change. That's like the big thing. And we've talked about this before on this show of sort of like

that's where the mindfulness comes in. It's like an everyday practice towards doing something differently. That's the only way you're going to make change that feels like real change. Right. Which is, I mean, that's why it's hard. It's because it's like you can't. can't just do it one day and then be done. Yeah. But if you care, then worth it. Should we get into our triggered segment? Yeah, let's do some triggered scenarios. Okay, I'll read the first one. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. This has quickly become out of my favorite podcast. Thank you. Your sisterly love for each other really shines through your episodes and it's amazing to be a listener every week. Oh, I love that. Our sisterly love. So background to my triggered. My boyfriend of two

years is a notorious sleep talker. It doesn't bother me as I often fall asleep before him. On the off chance it wakes me, it's usually incomprehensible nonsense and I just roll him to the side and he stops talking in his sleep. Last night, he said in his sleep, I love you, Beth. Beth is his ex from four years ago. I didn't mention anything to him in the morning because he was clearly asleep, but it definitely gave me a twinge in my stomach to hear him say that. I brushed it off because it's not worth the awkward conversation, but it's interesting how it gave me a quick moment of insecurity. So, how triggered would you be of your partner's sleep talk saying he loved his ex, best, sleepless from sleep talking?

Oof. That's tough. I'm like a nine on this. Unconscious mind is a real thing. Yeah. I was going to say, I mean, like, it's one thing if he was talking to the ex in the sleep, but the fact that he said, I love you. Right.

is like, is a tough one. Just hearing her name would be like triggering, like, why is he even thinking about her, you know, but like. Right. Literally, you know, was it, was it a nightmare or was it a dream? That's what you need to know. It's hard to like accuse someone of something that they've done in their unconscious. Right.

You know? But I agree. I don't think this is an accusation situation, but to me, this is 100% worth a conversation. and he may deny it, be like, I don't even remember that. I never think about her. I have no thoughts about her. And maybe his conscious mind doesn't. And I guess you have to accept it at that point.

But there's no way that I would not be able to just not bring this up. Yeah. I think this is something that you have to tell him that you heard. And maybe he would be honest and say, you know, yeah, sometimes I have these thoughts or are they married? What's their status boyfriend? They've been dating for two years. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, dating for two years. I think, you know, maybe there's some thoughts. Maybe there's a couple lingering feelings. It doesn't make him a cheater. He didn't do anything. But I definitely think it's worth a conversation in some way. I don't, you know, I do believe that dreams hold some weight.

And not to say that he loves her. You know, maybe he, I'm not saying it means he loves her, but I think it means that there's some kind of a thought or feeling or something in there. Or maybe he, you know, was there was something that just planted a seed. Maybe he was looking over, looking through an old box of cards and that would kind of explain it. Or maybe there was something that happened that brought this to the forefront of his mind. But there was definitely something that planted this little seed in there. I agree.

And especially now it's been a few weeks. You could probably try to say it in a non-angry, judgmental way. And again, even if he had those feelings, it doesn't mean that he doesn't want to be with you. Maybe like there was something just in the back of his head that he was thinking about. I think if you could approach it in an open, like, just tell me about, like, it's a little, made me feel a little insecure. Could you tell me about this? And you had a real conversation, it might actually make you guys even closer.

I agree. I would definitely have to say something. We could not be able to let this. Excuse me? Right. No, yeah. I mean, you can't be mad. There's nothing.

He didn't do anything wrong. But I do think it's, you know, maybe just fodder for some intimate conversation about his unconscious mind that has now been brought to consciousness through his sleep talking. And what if he was like, I don't remember, I don't have any, I haven't been thinking about her, I don't even think about that. Like what if he was just like complete deniability, denial rather? Yeah, I guess what, then what are you going to do that you have to just try to move on? I guess there's nothing else you can do.

You should just be like, I'll be listening. And he's like every night before he goes to sleep, he's going to muzzle himself. Yeah. Just in case something comes out. No, that's, and for him, you know, I feel bad for people that have that like sleep talk because it really, like, that's very private. Your unconscious thoughts are extremely private. So to feel like there's like a printout going out into the world without you knowing it is,

you know, even when people share dreams with me, it's very intimate, you know, like people don't realize I think sometimes sharing your dreams is very intimate. It's like really a look into your unfiltered consciousness, which, you know, I love it if people do that. But sometimes someone will share a dream with me and then I'll kind of come up with an interpretation and I could see in their eyes like this fear of like, oh my God, you're like seeing, you're seeing into the depths of my soul right now. Please stop it.

So, yeah, dreams are interesting, really interesting. I agree. I mean, I feel bad for him because it's really like, I don't think it's fair that. Because she's getting to police's thoughts in some ways by being able. I do think everyone is entitled to like their own fantasy dreams situation. But it's not like she like tried. Right. She was like trying to tap into it.

So I get it. Just bringing it up not in an angry way, but just like I heard this. This is what I'm feeling about it. Like this is just making me upset. I just wanted to talk to you and I want you to be able to be on it. There's like some lingering feelings. I mean it doesn't mean we have to break up. It doesn't mean, you know,

maybe you have a moment of like, oh, I saw this movie that we used to watch together and it brought up like a thought. It doesn't mean that he like loves her and wants to leave his relationship and be with her, but maybe there is a little something there that he can share with her. Or maybe there is literally, he feels like there's nothing there and he just saw her name on a billboard somewhere and it seeped into his unconscious and that's what came out, you know? Right. Let us know how that goes. Yeah, seriously. I would love to hear how that conversation goes. It's funny. I've gotten mad.

Like, I've had dreams where, like, I've had a dream, you know, about Jeff. And I wake up and I'm, like, annoyed with him. Oh, totally. Yeah. Where I'm like, you know, what you did in my dream last night was absolutely unacceptable. A hundred percent. Yeah. I've got, I've had that too.

And I think Mike said that about me. Right. And you're kind of like annoyed at the other person. Right. You wake up like in a mood. Because you're in your mind. You're like, well, they could have done that. Right.

Or just it really felt like you're almost, it's actually very interesting example of like the mind-body connection where sometimes the mind and the body can get all swirled up and mixed up where you're still, your physical body is still activated in the morning about this thing that never happened. It's like the virtual reality where you're worked up and I'm still like kind of talking myself out of being worked up about something that literally didn't even happen. but your body still kind of thinks it happened. So you have to calm your body before your mind can come around to being like, that wasn't real.

Yeah. And I think that's a great reminder of what you've said in previous episodes where it's like you were not your thoughts. Right. Like just because you're thinking that or you're feeling that doesn't mean that it's accurate. So you don't always have to trust it. But I've definitely felt that way too. But usually the nice thing about dreams or nightmares are that they do kind of like

fade throughout the day. Like at the end of the end of the, the day, I barely even remember what the dream was. I wonder why that is. Like, why do you remember so intensely right after? And then you completely forget about it by... Right. Well, yeah, I think, again, it's like that physical activation. Like, when you're first having it, it's living in your body. It was in your mind and then it lives in your body. And your body is the part that's like real. That's the part where you really do have chemicals like coursing through your bloodstream. You know, thoughts aren't, they're not even a thing. Thoughts like there's, you cannot

record them, you cannot measure them, you cannot, with all the technology that we have, I cannot read your thoughts. There's no machine that can, because they don't really, they're not like a thing. They don't really even exist. But the physical ramifications of your thoughts are a real measurable thing. I can measure your heart rate. I can measure the level of cortisol in your bloodstream. Like, there's all these scientific things. So once it lives in your body, now it's real. And once your body comes and the thoughts are gone and the physical sensation and your body is gone, now it's gone. Okay. I like that. Yeah. It's actually a great little, you know, explanation of how to separate your mind and your body. And like once you can,

the only thing that's real is what's living in your body. The rest of it's imaginary, all of it. Yeah. We should do a whole episode on dreams. Oh, I would love that. I would get a dream expert on here. Yeah. I would love that. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure this woman would love that too. Come on. Bring your boyfriend.

We will help figure out what's going on here. Yes. All right. Let's do another one. Okay. Okay. Hi, Trudan and Dr. Naomi. I was out to dinner with my family and my fiancee to celebrate our recent engagement.

When the waitress asked if we'd like dessert, my mom said, don't even give her a menu because she's got a wedding dress to fit into while pointing at me. I said, I don't have. have a wedding dress yet and I'll be sure to get it in my size. The waitress was clearly uncomfortable and said, well, congrats to me and my fiance. I didn't end up getting dessert, but everyone except my mom and I did. Later, I asked my mom what that was all about and she said she was just joking. Now it's been a few weeks and I'm still annoyed. She's going to be with me when I am dress shopping and now I have it in the back of my mind that she thinks I need to lose weight. She's never made any negative comments about my weight before. Her and my sister have always been thinner than I am and will

diet together. I'm not sure if it matters, but I'm not overweight. Before this comment, I didn't even plan on going on any diet or losing any weight for my wedding. How triggered should I be? Am I just overthinking it? And it was just a not funny joke. Should I just try to let it go? I wish I didn't have to think about this while trying on dresses and eating around her up until my wedding. Sincerely, let her eat cake. I like the sign off. Yeah. You do not need to lose weight before your wedding, so I would stick with that. If you like your body, I would not let this affect anything. I could see why she's triggered, but I do think it was like a bad joke.

Yeah. I think it was a bad joke where it's like, oh, the bride has to be careful now. Yeah. Yeah, if she's never said. I think it's almost like they were at an engagement dinner and it was kind of a way of being like, she's the bride. Like I think there might have been a piece of that where she was just trying to like, let the waitress know that she's the bride in a really annoying and bad joke way. It's funny how like words or one little comment can take up so much space in your head when it,

I agree with you. I think it was just a total like, I think moms have this thing where they want, you know, they want to tell everyone like the news and it's sort of like their news. And this was just kind of a way that would that she wound up doing that, especially if she's never said anything like that before. I think it was just totally a thoughtless comment that really didn't mean anything. But it is interesting how one little comment can just make you question everything about yourself. Totally. Yeah. And I guess that's sort of the whole point of the triggered segment. But like before she was feeling so good, one little comment. Yes. Like she said, I'm not overweight. She's never bought into the whole thing that her mother and sister that they want to go on diets and do the whole thing. Like I love the confidence that you had before this. Don't let it shake you. I think this is maybe more of her issue, you know, than anything. If she's the one that's already thin and trying also to diet, I think this might be something that's kind of a seed that's

just planted in her mind about, oh, you're getting married, you have to be obsessing over your shape. And she just put that. Because that's what she would do. Right. It might be an excuse for her to dig deeper into her own desires to change her body and whatever's going on with that. But I do think that this was just a way for her to let the waitress know that you were getting married in sort of this culturally annoying concept of like, now you're going to be a bride and now you can't, you know, you have to watch how you look or like be conscious about how you look. So yes, annoying for sure, but I wouldn't do anything differently and I would try your best not to let this seep in any further than it already has.

I agree. What would you give it? I would give it a six. Because I do think that like it's especially, I think when you are getting married, that is a kind of thought in the back of your mind, even if you're not someone who's constantly thinking about that. And I could see why this would make you, like just that wedding culture, I could see why this would kind of like stick in your head.

Right. Like now it's a thing that she has to think about when maybe she could have ridden off happily into the sunset in her whatever size gown she ended up getting. Yeah. Because you always get so many messages about like how, you know, this, you have to look the best you've ever looked in your entire life on your wedding day, right or wrong. But I can see how that would, it starts right away too. So I could see why this comment, especially around then, would make you double think something that you don't have to. think twice about. Totally. So this is just good practice. When it comes into your mind, let it go. This is probably a her issue if she's, you know, and this is, she's projecting her stuff onto you is what I think this is. So I would just try to let it go. I agree. Should we do one more? Yeah, let's do one more. All right. Want to read it? Sure. Hey, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I'm a betcha's super fan. This happened last year, but I still feel a little triggered when I think about it. My boyfriend bought a house and we planned to move in together. He moved in April.

My lease ended May 31st, but I asked if I could move in May 15th as we were busy the two weekends leading up to this. My boyfriend said yes, but wanted to charge me pro-rated rent. So half the month of rent. I felt like he should have let me just move in two weeks early instead of having me pay double rent for half the month. We talked it out and he didn't charge me in the end, but we both had a hard time seeing each other's perspective. I wanted to get your guys thoughts. Would you have felt triggered too? We are engaged now and have come to understand each other more in terms of how we handle money, but I still struggle to understand his mindset with this. Best Squatter, Betch.

Well, it's interesting. She says they've, you know, come to terms with how they think of money and she's still struggling. She doesn't really say either of their rationales. I mean, I understand his, I kind of understand his rationale more than her. his rationale is she's going to be living here for an extra two weeks. Like, she's not really giving any explanation as to why she thinks she shouldn't be charged. Oh, gosh. I kind of totally disagree with you. Really?

I just feel like he was going to be living there and paying it anyway. So, like, his girlfriend now is just, like, taking up space and so she has to pay. It's his girlfriend. Right. No, I get that. I'm just like, he's going to be living there. the whole time, though, like into the future and beyond. Like, why should he charge her at any point? Right. Well, that's more, I guess that's the point. It's like, okay, this is going to be a shared expense

in general. Like, maybe he's not going to, you know, foot the whole bill. And that's the agreement that they had. She can help pay for some things. But like, if she moved in when she said, he was planning on paying this whole thing by himself. So now he gets the benefit of her presence for another two weeks. And you'd think that he would like that. That's his girlfriend. I just, I don't know. I was really, I was on her side with this. I think him making it so transactional when they're in a relationship feels, it's like what we talked about last episode or whenever that was about like taking the romance out of something when you're like making it very transactional or like there's no just like, yay, of course you can come two weeks earlier. I'm so happy. Like, that's

going to be amazing. Yeah. Versus like, yeah, but you better pay up. I understand that, but it's also like the whole, like, the act of like moving in together or living in an apartment together is kind of transactional too. Like the rent is going to be split. Like I, I see what you're saying too. It's like, yeah, if you wanted to make it a more romantic thing, like it could, but a lot of

living together is not romantic. Right. A lot of it is transact. A lot of it is who's going to make sure. we're not out of toilet paper who's going to... Right. So he's getting you prepped for that. You know, if we're digging in, I do agree.

I think he probably has some type of fear of her not contributing and not wanting to set the tone, the wrong tone of like, this is my house and I'm going to be, because he bought the house, it's his house. So not wanting to set the tone that like he's going to be paying for everything and that she's going to have to pay her way. So I think that's probably why he did it. The part that feels triggering to me was that the plan was for her to move in on the 31st and she wanted to move in earlier because we were busy. Like they had collective things that they had to do the weekends before. So it's almost like, well, if you don't want to pay up, then you better just like figure this out and stay in your, you know what

I'm saying like that part about treating her like she's a tenant and like it's not my problem that you're busy the two weeks leading up like this is a deal yeah we had a deal you're not getting two free weeks that's the part that is triggering I think and I think when she explained it to him he did he did not wind up charging her right but I could I think it's it's almost like these are the conversations that are that are interesting to have in a like like you said like he maybe he didn't want to have her feel like he was going to be paying or doing everything. those are important conversations to have that like the way you think about money is such an important thing to discuss if you want your relationship to get more serious and like again those are

not the beginning romantic like fluttery convos but those are the things that like as the years go by are like an important part of your dynamic so I do think it's interesting I also think that when she did explain maybe like the way that she was thinking about it that he didn't in Jarger is also like a, it's not like he was like sticking to his thing. He was in probably in his head just like, okay, like she'll just start two weeks earlier. But I wonder if it were the other way around, would you, would you feel the same way? Yeah, I think I would. It's at the, I think the other part that feels sort of, I could see why she's triggered is because he bought the house, which leaves me to believe like, right, he's, he's paying for this house anyway. It's not like they

picked out an apartment together that they could both afford collectively together. Like, I need you to pay for this because otherwise I can't afford it. Like, I think that's the part that's triggering. It's like it's his house. He's going to be living in it anyway with or without her is what I would assume, right? Yeah, that's a good point. And I mean, I guess it does feel weird to be paying rent on something that someone else owns. But they have a mortgage that they're probably paying too, I would assume.

And so, like, yeah, it's a very unsexy conversation, I think, when you think about those kinds of things, but they definitely, you know, the conversations that need to happen. But I see which I, I can agree that the, he could have let her come in two weeks earlier. Right. Especially because it's like he's living there anyway and he's buying this house anyway. So I think for him, it seems like it's more of a communication of setting boundaries financially. that's what I think this is. Him charging her is more of like him trying to set the tone of like,

this isn't going to be a free ride, even though it is my house and you're going to live in it with me. I'm not going to be supporting the both of us. Right. Which I think it's a fair opinion to have in that sense of like, you know, this is. And again, I can see why he's like, well, like, why wouldn't she, like, if she's going to be paying rent anyway for the month, like, she's just asking to start a little earlier.

Like I could see, but I could, and again, I think the fact that she'd be paying double rents is really the main issue. Right. Yeah. Exactly. It's like she could just not start until after. But I think if she was not paying any rent the whole time and she just decided to move in two weeks earlier, I could see why in his head he'd be like, okay, she's just moving in early. Right. But I think her main point, which is that she'd be paying twice would be the bigger issue for me.

And as her boyfriend, he should not be trading her like a tenant in that way. if it doesn't make any financial difference to him. Right. Like, it's not my problem that you're paying two rents. Well, it kind of is. This is your girlfriend. Like, why would you want her to be stressed out? And I do think I would feel the same way if it was the woman who had the house and the guy said,

can I move in two weeks earlier and she was going to charge him, like, pro-rated rent. Right. Yeah. The double paying now that I think of it is kind of the annoying part. I mean, yeah, I guess I'll sort of agree with you. I think either way, the part that rubs me the wrong way is that he's, paying anyway. But he's paying anyway the whole time is the part is is the thing for me. It's like right. He could never charge her anything ever the whole time. I think what might be nice

is if, you know, and especially now that they're engaged, it's like, okay, I'm paying anyway, you buy the groceries or you pay the electric bill or you do something else because like I'm paying for this house regardless of whether or not you live here. I sort of get that you want to set these boundaries. And it just leads to a conversation, a bigger. conversation for another time about how necessary is it to share finances and pull your money when you're creating a life together as an engaged or married couple. I mean, some married couples just have completely separate finances. And how does that affect the intimacy and the connection in a relationship? So I think that, you know, that's probably a different conversation. I mean,

it's similar, but it's, there's something to be said for, it's almost like human nature, part of the reason and why humans are drawn to getting married is to kind of pool resources. Right. But there's also another argument to be made for financial independence, regardless of your situation, you know. Agree.

I think that's, maybe we could do another conversation. I'm sure there'll be more that comes up on this, but like how does separating finances affect your, like, intimacy and connection in a relationship where it's more like mine and yours versus ours? Right. Yeah, no, I think that's a very interesting conversation. I have a lot of thoughts on that too.

All right. We'll shelf that for next time. Well, that's it for today's episode. Thank you guys for listening. Again, if you have an email, you can email us at oversharing atbatchez.com. You can live as a voicemail at 646-363-6294. And don't forget to rate review and subscribe to the podcast on Apple and Spotify. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales-Pucco, and Rebecca Salis MacKhan. Editing by Missileo Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to Oversharing at Betches.com.

We'll leave us a voicemail at 646-363-6294. Betches.