Oversharing - Is It Better To Call Or Text Someone On Their Birthday

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

After a relaxing birthday weekend, Dr. Naomi shares some of the love she received on her special day. Together dig into how these milestones can unintentionally trigger sadness, especially when your own sister doesn’t call you to celebrate (wink wink). In this week's Overshare, a Betch wonders how sensitive she should be when sharing positive pregnancy news with those that have struggled to conceive. Then, things get messy at a Bat Mitzvah as one couple’s boozy drama turns into a full-blown relationship conundrum. Dr. Naomi then sets an intention for a mother whose artsy daughter makes her a little uncomfortable. We're triggered when a therapist insists on a break-up explanation while Dr. Naomi gives her two cents on how she would have handled the drama. Finally, a mother in law maybe overstepping her boundaries when she demands her grandkids call her “Mommy.” Subscribe to Oversharing on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@OversharingPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. Happy birthday. I know you had a big birthday yesterday.

And I, you know, I wanted to hear how your birthday went, but I also wanted to hear about my your thoughts on my potentially controversial take that I don't think you should call people on their birthday. Oh, interesting. You know what? I actually thought about this, independently of you bringing it up. Independently bringing it up and me of me not calling you on your birthday. Yes, yes. I did text you. Yes. No, you did text me and you said in the text like not going to, you know, bother you on your birthday. But it's funny because it's, it's, It's a trend, I think. And I didn't notice it until, you know, I was kind of like, woke up in the morning. And all of, you know, all of my siblings, I was thinking to, this is what I'm thinking to myself, all of my siblings, except Jordana called me on my birthday. Called you? So now, oh, gosh, wait. Yes. Oh, wow. I'm the worst. And there's so many of us, too. No, it wasn't even in like a Jordana sucks way. It was in a.

like none of my friends actually called me. Like they all sent texts, like very nice text, but usually it's like that's the one day where you pick up the phone and you call. Right. So it's interesting because I was kind of like, I wonder is that necessary?

Like why do we, why did I kind of, why does that feel like special or I guess it just feels different, right? It's kind of like the one time when you actually call. But I get your perspective. You're doing what you're doing. I'm doing it because like that's kind of what I want.

And you know what? I think it's because we have so many siblings and like you do get so many calls from them. And then like your parents and then all these people. And like in my mind, I'm like I love catching up with my siblings, but also like I want to like if I'm usually if it's my birthday, I have like a plan that I'm doing. You're right. Right. And so part of me was like it's, you. You know what I think it's great to get like a voicemail or a text and then a call like the next day or that week.

Yes. Like when it's not your actual birthday and you're not doing anything. So like my mind is like a text is like I remember your birthday. I acknowledge your birthday and like I love you. And I'm not going to like interrupt your flow by you having to like answer my not be like rude and answer my birthday call. Right. I totally get it. It's also like you're probably not going to have like a big, you know, 40 men.

30, 40 minute catch up with everybody you know on that one day. So like, I get the concept. Right? I would assume like you're hanging out with your husband, your kids. Yeah. But I would, I wouldn't mind like a catch up on that day or two even. Okay. We really wasn't doing much.

We really, but I get it. That wasn't going to be me and you yesterday probably because like we, you know, we have other times that we chat or we chat here. And I get your, I wasn't mad. I just was thinking more. I was actually thinking more in terms of my friends. Right. It was like that's the time that we like always call. And this year was different, which was just, you usually do get a call. Yes. Interesting that you're saying like, you're starting a new thing of like, I'll text you on your birthday. I'll call you the week after. And I happened to be thinking, wow, interesting, this was the first year that, like, I didn't get phone calls from my friends. But maybe there's like a trending thing of like everyone's

kind of saying, hey, I'm probably either not going to pick up or if I pick up, it's going to be a quick, like, hey, thanks for calling. Love you by. Well, that's why I like a text because like you can read it in your own time. You can answer whenever you like have a minute. There's no like feeling of I have to call that person back or I'm being rude. But I could see why like there's like a specialness to a call. Sometimes I'll get a text from friends that are like happy birthday. Like let's catch up this. Yes. Especially if we're talking frequently. But if I mean, here's the thing that I did that based on my own preferences. If your preference is a call, I'll call from now on. Whatever. I don't care. Do whatever you want.

I'm kidding. Especially with like the nieces and nephews. as they get older, I'm like, they don't want to like spend their birthday like, talking to their aunt about like what their birthday plans are. Like they just want to like enjoy their birthday. Yes. And kids don't have like, I think if you called, we could easily do the thing where it's like, hey, in the middle of this, love you so much. Thanks for the call.

Happy birthday. Bye. You know. Right. Kids are a little bit more like, so what are you doing today? And they're like, I really don't feel like talking. about this right now. Hopefully anything but this. Yeah. So I'm good with either one, honestly. And I just sound like it. I mean, if you're, no, you're thinking, if your preference is a

call, I'll call from now on. Yeah. No, you don't, honestly, if it was like the next day, that's great, or a text and then, hey, let's catch up the next day. That's fine. It was not you. You were just like the, the, you were the, my feelings were projecting onto you because I was kind of like, okay, well, I have so many siblings and they all call me, except Jordana. So that's the only reason why it came up. But yeah, it just now that I know that you prefer a call, I will call every year. All right. It's for you.

I didn't call for you. That was. Yeah, I appreciate. I appreciate the gesture. No, but I do think that it wasn't, it was more about like, I think this happens to people all the time. There's like a little trigger of something, and I'm just going to explain my press, there was a little trigger of like, my friends didn't call for the first time. Does that mean we're drifting apart? Does that mean this friendship is changing? Does that mean we have,

you know, like what does that mean? Like writing a story and a narrative around it when it was probably just like maybe they were busy that day. Maybe they had the same thought you did. Maybe they will, I'll get a call this week. But in that moment, that like, uh, that little pit thing is like, does this mean my friendships are, they don't like me anymore? Yeah, or just like it. Yeah, I mean, faded. Yeah, I guess maybe there was a little bit of that like, you know, did I do something to

upset them or, you know, just your mind starts to go in that direction where, you know, when I pull myself back, I'm kind of like, if the whole friendship is, going to be boiled down to one phone call one day. That's a little ridiculous. Right. But I guess if they don't live close, it can feel more important. Totally. Right. Right. Right. Maybe that's a part of it. Yeah. I mean, it is an interesting thought. And I really am fine with it. I don't need the, hey, happy birthday, got to go doing this thing. I really don't. I think it was just tied into this. are my friendships changing because this was a thing that we would like always do. Right.

That now we're not doing anymore. So I could see that. Well, our relationship is not changing in fact. I know. I also knew we had like this, you know, obviously this is private, but, you know, we have our own catch up and I'm kind of like, again, does she want. I'm always thinking like, does she like, I'm always thinking of, I was just so generous. So I will not call you on your birthday.

No, I like, you know what? what you do, my siblings with kids do, which is always so cute is they leave like a family. Like if I'm, if I'm busy and they're leaving like a family little voicemail, the kids like singing especially when the little, when the girls were little, I remember used to send those videos and I would like listen to them and it was like really fun. Like I love a birthday voicemail that I can like get back. Because I mean, I don't know. It depends on the year. Some years I'm doing less than others.

But if I'm having like, sometimes I'm having like people over or I'm like going to dinner and it's just kind of like I don't want to feel like it almost adds to. to a feeling of like, am I rude because I'm not picking up or I'm not answering. So yes, yes, I hear you. Well, a birthday voicemail is also nice. There's something about, I know a lot of people use apps to kind of like have a hear someone's voice and you talk through like what's going on or whatever. Right. To me, I'm like a long voicemail.

I love it. Like I have, you know, a lot of my college friends that will leave these long voicemails. And I'm like, I just kind of felt like I had a little hang. with you just by listening to your voice, the tone of it and whatever. So that must be a generous thing. I love it all. I'm not angry. Yeah.

I do think it's like a, you know, voicemail used to be the thing. I probably age myself by saying that, but a birthday voicemail is nice. I might not necessarily get back to you that day, but I heard you and, you know, a little happy birthday, love you, whatever. It's all good. Yeah. I like that. Okay.

Well, now I'll know. I will, and I will know what you like on your birthday. So I'm glad that we had this conversation. Well, you know, if it's a slow year, I'll text you that you can call. You're allowed to call me. Please call me. I'm desperate and born. I have nothing going on.

No, it's true. And I think everyone's, it's kind of like the, you know, it's like the love languages, right? Yes. Like your love language might not be someone else's, but you should give someone what they want on their birthday. And I guess you wanted a call. And I will give you. you would call. But also another part of this, and we've had some inquiries about this is what you did

on your birthday. Oh, yes. So people want to know. Oh, really? Okay. Really, it was a really nice chill birthday. I, we woke up. We hung out by the pool a little bit. Um, chilled. And then I, we came in and I took, this was one of my favorite parts, like a post sun birthday nap. ceiling fan like it was heaven. I love a post sun ceiling fan nap. I did my two sessions of transcendental meditation, which is a new thing I'm doing. Then we all got dressed up. I curled the girl's hair. We had a little dress up party. We went out to dinner. So it was a nice, chill birthday. Sounds like a lovely day. It was really, really nice. Yeah. And I got some phone calls from some other people.

And it's a nice holiday weekend. So you had the, you know, extra. Yeah, it did fireworks on Friday night. It was, yeah, it was a nice weekend. And your birthday is on Sunday. So you probably the time you get to your birthday, you're probably nice and relaxed from like a. Totally. It was actually, that's exactly how it was.

And we just had a chill day at home. Yeah, it was great. Love it. All right. Well, happy birthday from, for me and the rest of the oversharing family that also Yeah, thanks, y'all. Yeah. All right.

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And then when new openings arise, we will hit you up and we will match you up with the perfect group for you. Yes, please check it out. And let's get into our show. Let's do it. All right, I'll read our first email. Hey, Dr. B and Jordana. I love this podcast and I recently subscribe because I'm back in the office and need all the extra content for my drives. Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, I'll jump right in. I recently found out I am pregnant. I'm so happy and feeling so blessed. As I've been telling people, it got me wondering how much I should consider other people's triggers. I have a few friends and acquaintances that have gone through IVF struggles. However, all of them now have their own children through IVF or adoption. When I told them, I realized afterwards that maybe I should have been more sensitive. I know they aren't currently going through it, but I wonder how much that pain always sits with you.

I was somewhat mindful and didn't go into detail about how easy and quick it happened for my husband and I. That would have definitely been insensitive. They received the news well and hugged me and it didn't seem awkward. I just felt bad afterwards. It left me with the question, how were successful? are we for other people's triggers? Should I have started the statement with, I know this may be hard for you to hear. Again, to clarify, they aren't currently going through their struggles and have

been, have beautiful, healthy children. But if you've struggled and been triggered by a topic once, does that mean you always will? All right. I will ask you your opinion on this one first, specifically relating to this topic. Do you feel like you could use more sensitivity when people share that type of news or you're just like spit it out. Well, I think like there's a sensitivity needed, but also like it's, I do think it's different when you're going through it versus when you're like on the other side of something, like she's saying her friends are. Right.

I don't think, I almost think like an apology to someone who already has kids and is on the other side of having kids is like a little like condescending almost. Like, are you okay? Right. I'm pregnant. Are you going to be okay? Right, right, right. Because it's like, you know what I mean?

It's funny. It's like there's no right way to do anything. Like that would feel, I think, like a little like you don't think I can handle it like or something. And I think the more interesting question almost like around this emailer and it could be related to anything is like how sensitive should you be about like anything with the chance that anyone might be. Yeah.

Past, present or future triggered by anything. Like if you had a friend whose parent was like dying or something, could you you talk about your own parents? Could if you had a friend who was going through, like, you know, who lost their job? Could you talk about a promotion? Could you talk about like anything or, you know, had lost their job in the past, but now has theirs? Like, it has a new one. Like, yes.

I think the question of like, do we need to be mindful of every trigger someone could potentially have is sort of like the more interesting question here? I think obviously if you have a friend who you know is going, is currently in the middle of going through something. There's like a certain sensitivity required, but you don't always know what people are or aren't going through. I think that it's almost like if you, if you're close enough that that person

has shared that with you, then you can be more sensitive. And I think she did the right thing where she's like, I didn't talk about how extremely quick and easy it was and how it happened immediately. We were barely even trying. Like I think that's obviously,

like these are her close friends. So she knows that. So she chose the details. She did sparingly. but I don't think you need to apologize for good news to people who have had struggles with something in the past. I think that's sort of their own thing to deal with. I think we've said this on this show. It's like your triggers are your triggers. Like should I have called you on your birthday with the idea, was not calling you on your birthday. Was that potentially me triggering

you about your friends not calling you? Like I could be like I couldn't have never know that. Right. So I think it's kind of like you can't, I don't think with the, you can expect. the world to go around sort of guarding your feelings about any of these things. It's sort of up to you to like to like process and work out your own triggers so they don't trigger you. Yes. Yes. And I agree. I completely agree. I think in this situation, if they were still going through it and they were talking about it and you had had a conversation like two weeks earlier about how hard this was, I think it would be nice to say, I know this might be hard to hear. right you know but you know I'm pregnant or whatever but I don't think you need to not only like

you're saying anticipate anyone's triggers but then the remnants of their old wounds like I you know it's like we're walking on landmine so I think she handled it fine I don't think she needed to say that especially if they you know have their kids now and I do think people need to take more ownership over their own feelings. There is that instinctual urge when you feel hurt. It's just in our nature to look around and like, whose fault is it that I'm hurt? Right.

You know, and it's you because you brought up this thing or because you meant, it's like, no, I'm sad that I don't have a baby. It really isn't because you brought it up or you didn't bring it up. Right. This is my thing. So yeah, I do think if, you know, if someone knows that you're going through, something in that moment, it would be nice to say just to acknowledge that. But yeah, we can't walk around. I agree. Like, trying to anticipate everyone's sensitivities. And that's what friends are for.

Like, I think you can say if that does bother you, you could, the best scenario is you come back and say the way that you presented, your pregnancy just made me feel a little bit unseen. I don't think this case where they already have their kids would be an example of that. But like if there was an example of the way that you shared this news made me feel unseen, then you can share that with that person. I don't think we need to be anticipating everybody's triggers. If you're hurt by something, come out with it, say it, then you can apologize or say, you know, you're right.

I should have thought about that or I'm sorry. I didn't realize. And then you can move on. I agree. And I think to like apologize before even like giving like to apologize for your news or I'm to to say that to almost like tell them that they, that they should still feel sensitive about it is almost more annoying. Yeah. In some ways. I know maybe that's like you're like like you're still like you're still like you're still like. Or like you're still. Or that's become like like identity. You think I can handle anything. Yeah. Yeah. So I think she handled it fine. I wouldn't. But the general thing of like taking ownership over your own triggers, yes, do that. Like we have our wounds and then those are our wounds to feel to, you know, lean into to give ourselves nurturing and compassion. But if we can notice that urge to get angry at someone who touches our wounds and then kind of

take that breath and say, okay, this was here already. You didn't put this here. Right. I think it's a great way to be in relationship. Yeah. And if you go through life, I think, like, getting angry or trying to, like, avoid any potential triggers at any point ever, I don't think that's actually going to bring you safety. It actually leaves you just very vulnerable to being, like, angered at any moment or upset at any moment as opposed to, like, working through the trigger so that when you do see a baby announcement or someone tells you something that evokes something. I mean, everything, everything is personal.

So everything you relate back to yourself. So like, you know, that's not a bad thing. That just means like you have to think about how things make you feel and probably can do that through like meditation or any of those things. And then like release that as a like thing that's going to make you feel angry or make you feel like sad or and that takes a while. And it's a sign. I think the good thing, the good way to look at it is say this is a sign that I need to nurture

myself in this space. like I need a little compassion here. This thing is coming back up in me or this insecurity or this grief is coming back up in me. So instead of getting mad at you, I'm just going to realize, okay, maybe I need to like have a cry or journal about this or let this live. And it's funny because I notice this with my kids, like if somebody hurts their feelings, like I get very, like my first instinct is to kind of be like, well, maybe that's not a good friend. friend for you. Like maybe she's not a good, you know, like almost going to the place of like demonizing him. They're hurting your feelings. Yeah. Like so they're the problem because they're

hurting your feelings instead of kind of being like, well, what's the insecurity that you're feeling that what this person said is triggering you so much? And maybe you need to do your own work around that insecurity, whatever that is, you know? Right. So I noticed that I need, and we set that example that's probably how we all got like this in some way you know somebody's taught you along the line that person's hurting you they're bad like they're the problem either get mad at them or get rid of them or whatever versus that person's hurting me that means that i have something that i need to nurture in myself that they're just touching and it was already there right so i think that's how you grow bringing yeah totally it's not cut out everyone just walk around being mad at everybody

That's like, and there are those people who for sure who do. And I could see at, you know, as a parent how parents might make that mistake of setting that example or just anybody make that mistake of setting that example of like, you're hurt. Who's the, whose fault is it? Right. Yeah. And it's harder work. It's almost easier to do that than let's get into why this is hurting you. Yeah, because nobody wants to feel.

like anger is way, it feels safer. It feels more protective. It feels more like I can get rid of you. Right. And then the problem solved as opposed like, no, this is like literally in me and I can't really probably get rid of it. It's in me. The only thing I can do is nurture it, care for it, love it, let it breathe, let it live,

but I can't get rid of it. Agreed. It feels like I could get rid of a person. I can get rid of the problem. Well, you didn't do anything wrong. And I think we sufficiently answered that question. Yeah. All right.

Moving right. right along. You want to do our betchesist? Yes, I will read our betchesist. I love your podcast so much and I've shared it with friends who love it too. Awesome. Thank you. I attended my nieces bat mitzvah last night and it was held at a restaurant bar lounge. At each table, the restaurant put out all the food and a bunch of drinks and there was a standalone bar as well. The drinks on the tables were all in unlabeled pitchers big and small. At one point, my one-year-old baby, wanted water. So I served him what I thought was water from a pitcher on the table. Before handing him the glass, I smelled the drink and it was not water. It was straight up vodka. I was like, whoa.

And laughed off the mix-up with my family before serving him actual water. A little later, my husband, who was not at the table when I did it, made the same mistake. He poured a glass with vodka thinking it was water and smelled the drink before giving it to our baby. He didn't have the same reaction is me. My husband got mad. He saw zero humor in the situation and immediately wanted to speak to the manager of the place to complain about the fact that they have unlabeled pictures of alcohol mixed up with non-alcoholic drinks on the tables where there were kids and teens who can easily, by accident or on purpose, drink the alcohol. The manager took zero responsibility and was only defensive and avoidant. My husband was so angry, but he managed to mostly keep it together until

we got home so as not to cause a scene. At home, I tried to explain that I made the same mistake, but I didn't get so mad because I figured this is the way the place presumably is allowed to operate, and it's my responsibility as a parent to know and check what I'm feeding my kid. And I did check, and so did my husband, so no harm was done. He couldn't disagree more, saying it was too easy for him to accidentally give alcohol to our baby. And if he had done so, our baby would have had to go to the hospital and he would have been arrested. He was extremely shaken up. Now he wants to call the police and report the place for the way they serve alcohol. He also wants to confront my brother and sister-in-law for what happened, blaming them for choosing to host the bat mitzvah at a venue that could have

harmed my baby and ruined my husband's life. For the record, I think my husband's right and feeling angry for what could have happened and for how the manager took zero responsibility. And I support him reporting the place to the police or whatever authority regulates how alcohol is served in restaurants. That said, I'm not as mad at the situation as he is. I think it's a funny story to be honest because no harm was done. And I don't agree with blaming my brother and sister-in-law for what happened. My husband, unfortunately, is interpreting my lack of outrage as a sign that I'm not on his side and now he's mad at me too. What do you guys think? Should I be taking this more seriously for what could have happened. Only water on the table. This was a good question. Yeah. I can see both sides.

I feel like this is almost like not about the incident and more about like the way that they deal with these feelings of like, I guess for, you know, it's funny with him. He's like triggered. He's like, I guess there's a fear and there's a trigger that comes out like a like an injustice was done that needs to be paid for. Right. And she doesn't think of it that way. Right. She thinks of it as like an almost situation that didn't actually happen. So, I mean, I do think it's kind of insane to put a pot put a pitcher of vodka anywhere. Like, why would you need vodka in a pitcher? That seems crazy.

At a bat mitzvah where there's like a bunch of 13 year olds that probably would, some of which would love to get their hands on vodka. Yeah. Like it does seem weird. I do agree. It seems very irresponsible. I guess like the fact that nothing happened makes it feel like he might like he does seem to be wanting to make this a very large thing. And I can understand why for her, especially it's like her brother's event where she's like, I'm not going to create this whole scene for something that didn't actually happen and like make a police report and like potentially embarrass him or make something weird because this all happened when like nothing really happened. Right. So I think there's a compromise here of like maybe not an extensive police report or yelling at your brother and sister-in-law for choosing the venue, but calling the venue back asking to speak to someone calmly in charge, maybe when you're less activated about the situation and just say like, hey, here's what happened. Here's what almost happened. I really think it would be very wise, like very unwise to be doing that because like it could potentially cause your venue.

Like if the kid accidentally drank a glass of vodka, I think the venue would be in a lot of trouble also. Right. Yes, for sure. I mean, I do agree. I think this is crazy that have unlabeled pictures of vodka at a table and not come by and make sure everybody knows, hey, just like that. Who's drinking that much vodka that it needs to be in a pitcher?

They need to be in a pitcher. Yeah. I totally agree. I think the whole concept, I think they do need to know that that's not a good concept. And it doesn't work and they shouldn't do it again. What I think would be a great idea because I agree, I think the issue is between her and her husband of kind of like him not feeling him being so enraged and protective, I guess, over himself and the baby. You know, also I don't think. Validated by that.

Yes. Yeah. That hurts. She's not validating him. She's not on his side. I think it would be great if maybe she was the one that like called the venue back at some point. asked to speak to somebody else, whoever it might be, or even the same person again, maybe a little bit more calmly after everything has settled. And she was the advocate for like,

we need to make sure this doesn't happen to somebody else or this doesn't happen again. This is a big problem and could have ended up really badly. Although my hunch is his imagination of what would have happened. Like, I don't think that a baby's just going to chug down a bottle of vodka. They're going to spit it out. They're going to cry. They're not going to really. drink it. And then you probably like, I don't think the idea of him getting arrested after the baby like drinks a bunch of vodka. I think that's, that's his fear of the worst case scenario of what would happen. But I think that if she could come to the table and say, I agree with you. I got this. I'm going to call because I do feel upset or I do feel like this probably could have been worse.

We, it didn't end up that way for us. But I'm going to, I got your back. and, you know, I see where you're coming from. I think there probably is a little bit of, like, fear on her end that he's going to make a whole thing with the sister and, you know, and her family and cause a big rift. And then it's going to be a conflict. You know, like, I think she doesn't want all that. So I think you could find a middle ground where you're advocating, you're agreeing with him, but you're not causing, like, a whole war with your family over this. It wasn't really their fault. I'm sure they weren't like.

have a great idea. Let's put pictures of vodka on the table with a bunch of babies and teenagers. Yeah, no. Crazy concept, but I agree. I think this doesn't, I think there's a middle area where you can like escalate a situation or like do your, do your part to like make sure this doesn't happen again without burning down relationships and the venue and like everything. One last thing. I think what happens often is in the heat of it, like in the moment, you're in public, you're with a bunch of people. It's a party. It's a big event. She probably wanted to like de-escalate him.

And in doing so, she might have been not validating his feelings. So I think you can go back afterwards and, you know, make sure that he feels validated, that you agree that this is kind of a nuts way to serve alcohol and probably illegal, I'm assuming. I would imagine to not have to like cards, to have someone, have anyone to have access to vodka without showing an ID would be illegal. Yeah. I'm sure this isn't totally kosher. So yeah, I think that just validating him either verbally or by going ahead and taking the lead on escalating it in some way. He should be validated because like it is, you know, it is a potentially very, even if it's a 13 year. old who gets into that and gets really drunk. That's like, who's probably more looking for that experience.

Like, I think it is a very irresponsible thing to do. And it, it is angering that you could be like putting people at risk by doing that. Totally. I agree. This was not cool. And they probably should say they shouldn't be serving it in this way. So if you want to go ahead and let them know, I think that would be a great idea. But yeah, I think this, I wonder if this is something that happens between them like,

in terms of one person gets angry and the idea that he's like angry at her for not being angry enough. Right. Yes. I think that can happen in relationships too. Like I want you to be more angry about this. And you not doing that is making me angry at you. More angry. Yeah.

Yeah. And so you think in those scenarios, the solution is to just be validating. Yeah. Validating. And yeah, totally. Because I think some like there's a yin yang. Like you don't want two people to be like enraged at the same time because then you're kind of like just like both seeing red and not thinking clearly. And you don't want nobody to care because then you're just like going through life accepting these injustices and not doing anything about it.

Right. So sometimes you need to balance each other out. But that might feel like, you know, I wonder if he's the one that always has to be, you know, getting angry and doing the thing and fighting for what's, you know, fair and right. She gets to be the one that's just like, oh, that was crazy. So funny. But, yeah, I wonder if this is a bigger dynamic in their relationship. And if that's ringing a bell, then maybe you should have a conversation around that. Do you feel like you're the one that always has to be fighting the battle when I get to kind of sit back and.

Right. Because you're there. Because you're the one fighting the battle, you know. All right. Well, good luck. And I think this one can be. resolved with a nice, nice long conversation. Yeah, long conversation. And I, I just will say this. I get this because I think personally, I'm like the calmer of the two in my relationship.

Yeah, you seem like maybe more of the her. Yeah, I'm definitely more of the her. And I think sometimes with Jeff, like, I know that I, we as a family like need that. We need the person that's going to like stand up for the thing. But it's hard to always be that person because you feel like you're always the bad guy. You're the one that's always making the stink in the scene when ultimately like I benefit from that sometimes. Right. Your social loafing off of the someone else's anger and you get to become. It's like when you go on a trip and like someone plans the whole thing because they're really anal and like annoying about what you're doing and you just get to just go and enjoy it. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I would I would give him some credit there that might make him feel better.

Agreed. Thanks for trying to protect our kids and other kids in the future. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. Let's do some intentions. All right. I like this one for you specifically because I feel like you have older kids and you will be able to have some feelings. Yeah. Big kid problems. Yes. All right. These are some intentions. Hi, Dr. Naomi, and Jordana, I'm looking for advice or maybe even an affirmation to use when dealing with my 15-year-old daughter. I'm a single mom, and my daughter and I have a very close relationship. She's very smart and unique. She's very much an old soul and doesn't like most of the things most teens her age are into. Think John Denver and the Beatles over Taylor Swift and Stephen King over Colleen Hoover. She's an avid sower and has been making some of her own clothes for a few years now. I'm having a hard time deciding when I should be pushing back or making her do things as her mother or just letting her do them and figure stuff out on her own. By no means do I consider myself

a controlling parent and I trust her to make good decisions when it comes to social situations or things like that. Which brings me to my dilemma. She is going to a John Denver, Willie Nelson concert with my sister and her husband at the end of the month. She wants to wear this dress that she made from a vintage pattern to the concert. It reminds me of something a 60s teacher or librarian would wear. I told her, I think she should wear something else since it'll be hot. It's outside and I think she'll be uncomfortable and it will be a nuisance once she's actually there. She keeps pushing back and telling me that she's old enough to decide what to wear and that she should be able to wear what she wants. While I do agree, I think for something like this where she has no idea what the venue or concert would be like,

she needs to wear something more practical. She says that it will make her confident and at the whole time she'll be wishing that she had that on. Do I just let her wear whatever she wants and let it go? What's an affirmation I can use when dealing with this kind of situation? I'm sure we'll have many more. I remember at that age there were things my mother wouldn't buy or let me wear. I'm just having a hard time remembering how it felt to try to relate. Thank you.

Yeah, I get this. I think as a parent, she's trying to protect her. I don't know. She's not clear about if she's really trying to protect her from being too hot. Right. Or if she's trying to protect her from looking silly. A little weird.

Yeah. Yeah. Like not cool. Right. She starts by saying like the outfit is like not something that she like thinks is a cool look. Right. Yeah.

You know, it's so funny because I think as parents you want, you want, it's so important for your kids to feel like included. and not lonely and like part of a social group. And so I think, you know, that's her priority maybe is like, am I letting her go so far off the deep end where she's like not going to have friends or she's going to be lonely or ostracized or, you know, she's going to this concert like with two adults. And I think her fear is that she's not going to fit in or she's going to be made fun of

or something like that. But it's, but it's manifest. It's easier to say you're going to be hot. That's too, you know, it's too long. It's too, you know, it's a prairie outfit, it sounds like. Right. If she's hot, she's hot, she'll sweat, you know, I don't, I am not, you know, when you want to prevent your kids from doing things, it's because it's dangerous, right?

Like, maybe if you, she was going to wear like a totally underdressed, like, outfit with, like, her boobs out and short skirt, you might be like, this is kind of dangerous. Like somebody might try to take advantage of you or somebody might, you know, whatever, take pictures of you or something like that that might feel dangerous. This isn't dangerous. I think it's her fear of her not fitting in socially. But it's interesting because I think as a parent sometimes you notice there's these phases where you just you want certain things for your kids. Like even, you know, I'll just with my kids, I'm kind of like when they wear the uniform. You know, whatever the uniform is, like, whatever all the 12-year-old girls are wearing,

I'm kind of like, why don't you be a little more unique? Like, you have such a good fashion sense. Why don't you try to be the trendsetter? And she looks at me like, nobody does that. Not going to be the trend setter. She's like the opposite almost. Yes, the total opposite where it's like, I'm kind of like, so a dress, be unique. But you might feel the same way if your kid was this, went that far in the other direction.

Yes. So I guess my point is we're all trying to keep them like kind of off the guardrails in the middle, like not a total sheep, but not like a total rogue, just trying to keep them in the realm of normalcy. So I guess long-winded way of saying this is a phase of whatever it is. I think it's awesome that she's unique. I think you think it's awesome that she's unique to. The fear is probably that she'll end up lonely. if she's not accepted by the group or people are looking at her like she's weird or they'll make fun or they'll be, you know, whispering about her or whatever. But I think it's really actually pretty cool that that's not her concern. So top of mind for, yes, that's not her concern. And she's because for so many people, they live their daily life. Like that's the only concern.

How do I stay below the radar? Right. and not draw any attention to myself in a way that's different than everybody else so that you end up wearing like, I mean, middle school, it's like, this girl sounds like she's older, but like you look and it's from the back, they literally all look the same. Their hair is the same length.

They're wearing the same shorts, the same top, the same panda dunks shoes that like everybody's wearing. And I think it's cool that she's different. And she'll probably, if it's not serving her, she will grow out of it and change and move if she really ends up feeling lonely or she'll find her people, you know, that are into fashion and vintage. And if it's truly about the being hot, like, that's kind of how you learn how to dress for anything. Like one day you go out and you wear something that's too hot for the season or one day you go out and you wear their jacket is not heavy enough. like that's how you learn anything.

And like she had already given her the warning about the, she said, I suggest you're going to be hot. At that point, again, she's not going to die from being in the long prairie dress. You can insist that she brings a deodorant in her purse to freshen up throughout the night.

But other than that, I would let it slide and I would lean into gratitude for her ability to be unique and not walk around caring so much. much about fitting in. I think it's a pretty cool quality. I think she sounds like a pretty cool kid. But my intention for her,

because I think a lot of parents need this as their kids move through different phases, whether you might, you know, there's probably someone out there listening that has a toddler that's, you know, throwing tantrums or a kid that's not sleeping or doing poorly in school or whatever the things are that. there's strength and there's growth in all of these little phases. So the intention is I will trust that all of the phases of life will serve us well. In the moment, it might feel uncomfortable, but trusting that in the long run, it's going to serve you to kind of move through this phase with patience and gratitude. Love it. Okay. Good luck. All right. Let's do some triggers.

Let me read our first one. Okay. I will read this. Hi, Jay. Dr. N, big fan of all that you do, and I'm an oversharing and you up subscriber and super fan. Thank you. Love it. On to my triggered scenario. I decided to start seeing a therapist as a postpartum mom, and my husband is going through health issues. I told the therapist in our first session that I've tried therapy in the past but didn't connect well with the therapist, and although I'm very pro therapy, this was going to be my first time giving it a real shot in 10 plus years. We had four sessions together where I was very open with how chaotic my life is, how traumatic my childhood was, et cetera. I decided after giving it a real shot that we were not a match. Perhaps

relevant, but she is a woman in her 80s, and I felt her advice was a little outdated. Plus all the technical issues she would have during our sessions, which were virtual, gave me anxiety and the ick, and overall, just not for me. So after four sessions, I sent her very polite text explaining that it was nothing personal, but I was going to step away from therapy for a moment as I deal with the chaos of my life, and thank you for all your time. She then proceeded to call me, which I did not pick up. Then she texts to ask if I have availability to speak today for another session.

Not wanting to push back. I just said I was very busy today in work meetings all day and today wasn't good. She responded saying she thinks she needs an explanation as to why I'm deciding to take a step back and wants to talk it out. I did not answer this as I don't feel I owe this person who I've met virtually four times any explanation more than what was said. Had this been someone I was seeing for years, I'd understand that maybe they knew me to the degree that they thought for my mental health I should continue therapy.

Then she proceeds to call me twice and leave two voicemails reiterating that she wants to talk this out. I felt like this was such a rude thing to do. Especially because someone more vulnerable, would have felt pressured to have a conversation or session they did not want to have. And thankfully, I felt very firm and not having that conversation with her. But I'm open to the concept that maybe I'm in the wrong here. So therapist bombards you with calls, texts, and voicemails after you end your four session fling.

How triggered can I be? Signed, you're a bugaboo. I don't understand the sign off. Oh, like she's bugging her. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Is this standard therapy practice? If someone stopped seeing you after a few sessions,

like would you do any of this? Well, so yes and no. I would call and what you're supposed to do, and if four sessions is not, I would not necessarily define as like a therapeutic relationship. I think that's still in like an information gathering stage. So I agree with her that if this was longer, it would be more acceptable. But when you're trained in therapy, if someone terminates, we're trained to have a termination session, like an ending session, where you kind of say, hey, you know, this is what's happening, see if there's any transfer. And it would have been great to have one more session to kind of be like, honest.

I think this is the problem that I feel like a lot of people have in therapy. And I agree. This is too much. I would have followed up with one phone call, one voice. She doesn't call me back. I'm out. That's what I would have done. I wouldn't have kept on and kept on and kept on.

But I think people struggle with the idea of being honest with their therapist about like how you're feeling about the therapy. Like I think it's really okay. Or even if in that fourth session you started feeling like this isn't the right match to be able to say, hey, I'm just not sure I'm getting what I would. want out of this, I think what the therapist wanted was a conversation about ending it. Right. And I get from a patient's perspective, like, I shouldn't have to pay a whole session fee to end this. So that you feel better about the ending. Right. I mean, it's not really for the

therapist to feel better. It's kind of for the patient to feel better and the therapist to feel like they've done their job. Right. And not like ignored. I'm sure there's some reasons. Maybe she's whatever it is. Your advice feels outdated or the technology is whatever the reasons are to have a conversation about that.

That's hard to say to someone though. Yeah. Yeah. It is hard. But it's honestly, that's the place to do it. We can handle it. Do it. Tell your therapist how you really feel.

I think after more sessions I could see that. I'm putting myself in her shoes. Like, it's almost like if you went on four dates with someone, like would you just say, I feel like the polite thing to do is to say, like, I just don't think we're the match. I'm going to take a break from dating now instead of being like, and you said that thing,

you like, fold just your napkin weirdly and I just got the ick. And I just like, you know, just felt like was, you know, like, do you need to be, does she, do you, does the therapist, like, is that really going to help the therapist to know that like her advice is outdated? Like, what's she going to do? It's true, but it's not for the therapist. It's for her to be able to.

She's paying for it. Yeah. But no, but it's, it's, I think what people don't realize is it's in your best interest to be able to have hard conversations. Like in my groups, for example, I have everyone commit to four sessions, you know, like ahead of time so that people aren't coming and going and popping in and out. Like you're here. If you're sharing, people know you're going to be here the next week, the week after the week

after that. Okay. But then if you're going to leave, I always ask them to please come for one more session to tell the group why you're leaving, to explore what was working, what wasn't working, to have that hard, honest conversation. And for the group to be able to kind of have some closure and say, hey, you know, I really appreciated this insight that you gave me. And, you know, it was one little sentence, but I've thought about it ever since and I'm going to carry it with like to have some sense of a closure conversation.

And those sessions are really powerful. Like those, as much as I hate to see people leave because we all get attached, we all have look forward to seeing somebody or feel like I wonder what's happening with them. Those sessions are my favorite sessions because there's some realness. There's some genuineness that there's like a. realness that's there that often is harder to come by. So I think, I don't think she's, I agree with her. I get her perspective. This was excessive. It was like three texts, four probably total phone calls, two voicemails, like it was much. So if I ask someone to come back for one more session and they say, no, I really don't want to, I might give them the

explanation of why I think it's important, all the things I just said. And that's, it. And then I back off. So I get this was a lot of pressure. A relationship with the therapist is different than a relationship with a date, you know, like, I guess. This person can handle it. Right. I don't know. It seemed to me like the way the therapist was contacting her, it felt like the therapist was like panicking because she was losing a patient. Like, and it was about her. That was the part where she said like, I think you owe me. I forget what. She thinks she needs an explanation as to why I'm deciding to take a step back and wants to talk it out. Yes.

That's the part that's, eh, like, that she needs an explanation. It's not really for her. What I would say is I would like to sit down with you and, one, force you to have a hard conversation in person. And two, go back and forth about, like, what was that? That why was that ick? What is it about my advice that feels out? outdated. I think a lot of times with therapy, people feel like, oh, well, you need to know, anticipate all my needs, know exactly what I want, or you're not the right match when the

the meat of it is in having that conversation. Right. Yeah, it's very hard to have those kinds conversations. So being uncomfortable is where growth happens. So I'm not, I get it. This was much. But I do think going forward, if you're in therapy, and four sessions is like, I guess, it's kind of on the cusp. You know, maybe you could just be out after four sessions if you want to. I don't think she did anything wrong here, certainly. Right. But anyone out there that's in therapy right now, if you're thinking, I don't know if this is therapist is a right match for me. I think maybe I, you know, I'm going to try someone else or maybe I'm going to stop therapy.

Your next session, tell your therapist. that. Tell them. I'm not feeling great about this. I feel like we talk about the same thing every week. I'm not making progress. Go into your next session and tell them that. And I pretty much promise it will be one of the best sessions that you've had in a long time. Well, maybe they don't want the therapist to like try to convince them to stay. Yeah, that's fair. But I don't think that's where it will go. I think it will go to either we need to reevaluate your goals. We need to, out what you're looking for that you're not getting, or it might just go to where the beauty of a therapeutic relationship is. And like, I'm talking to, we're talking about each other.

That is where a connection happens. That is where you're going to. And I think that's probably why this therapist wanted her to come back because she's kind of like, you're feeling disconnected. If we talk about me and you, we're going to feel more connected. And maybe it did feel like that was coercing her to stay, but a good therapist will kind of be like, this was great. We felt connected today. I hope you feel better about that. And best of luck to you. Like, we can still end this.

Right. But at least we're not ending it in a way that feels like avoidance. That's what I think the therapist was trying to. Like, let's not avoid this. Let's, because the one person that you don't have to avoid the hard conversations with is your therapist. And I see it all the time. Yeah. I understand why she would do it, but I agree. I mean, like in a perfect world, you would address. But I think four sessions and she says she needs an explanation.

Yes. I'd give this like a four, three maybe. Just because like, again, I don't know how much. She clearly wasn't interested in having that conversation. And it wasn't reiterated to her as a way to do what you're saying. Right. Yes. I agree. The therapist probably. could have explained it in a different way. And even if that was me, I would have said, let's just hop on a call, like a 10 minute call. Right. You know, we don't. Yes. This doesn't need to be a whole. We don't need. I would have said, we don't need to schedule a whole session. Let's just hop on a 10 minute call, talk this out in person instead of ending over text. All that being said, four sessions, I probably wouldn't have done any of this. Right. I probably would have said four sessions. We're not a match. Yeah. Let's move on. I think the way she's

did it felt a little like desperate for her own like about her and not about the patient. So that's why I would give it a little higher. Yeah, no, and I agree. I'm going to agree with you. I'm going to give it a four, maybe even a five because she was like, kept calling and kept leaving messages. Like that part is intense and it feels like pressure. I'm just explaining why a therapist doesn't want to just let a patient say I'm done without having any closure, there are benefits to having that closure. So I agree. This was much. It was only for all the things around it made it feel like this was annoying and it was a lot. So yeah, I'll give it a four. I agree. It was annoying. But in the future, and for all you guys out there, do it. I'm telling you,

you will not be sorry. All right. I'll let you know if I have a the courage to I think I just didn't make another appointment with my last therapist. I don't think I ever. Yes, that's what happens. And it's, you know, I'm almost offended. He didn't try to contact me. Oh, you just didn't make an appointment. He never reached back out. Yeah. Rude. Yeah, I guess that's the opposite of this. Like, I don't even notice that you're gone. You didn't even care about me. Rude. Yeah. Yeah. This is all relationship stuff. Yeah. Right. That's what I, I think that's the reason why, You know, like I have a lot of patients that use like chat GBT for therapy. Like they ask them questions in between sessions or like before they met me or whatever.

They'll like go and yeah, ask their ask chat GBT questions. And I'm like, am I going to lose my job? Because chat CBT gives awesome answers. So that's another thing for those of you out there that can't afford therapy. Try chat GBT. what I hear. They give really, gives really good advice

and it's like really warm and empathic, but you can't do this. Right. You know, you can't do the thing where we talk about us. So that's what makes me feel like,

okay, I'm not going to be replaced by. Get a robot therapist. Or don't. If you're avoidant. All right. Let's do one more. I will read it.

Okay. Hey, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Love the show. Let me get right. to it. While my mother-in-law has given me lots of instances where I could submit a trigger, the last one finally gave me the fire to actually do so. I have a four-month-old daughter, my mother-in-law's first grandchild. Months before I gave birth, my mother-in-law told me she wants to be called

Nana Cindy, which was fine with me. It sounded cute and I was happy she was so excited, and already thinking of what she wanted to be called. Fast forward to last week, my first day back at work. My mother-in-law offered to wash my daughter while we work out some child care kings. From the office upstairs, I heard her talking to my daughter saying, Mommy Cindy, I'm your Mommy Cindy. Surely, I thought I must have misheard and let it go. Later at dinner, she confirmed my ears when she proudly announced, I decided I want to be called Mommy Cindy. She was so excited about her decision and I couldn't hide my annoyance. I try to be very cordial with her, but I didn't even know how to respond.

My husband saw how upset it made me and said, don't worry, she changes her mind every other day. What do you want to be called? Obviously, mom, mommy, mama, I told them. How triggered can I be? Your mother-in-law decides on your first day back to work that she wants your daughter to call her mommy. Sincerely, what did I marry into?

That's crazy. This would trigger me. Yeah. That's crazy. She's like, she's like swooping in as soon as she goes, Like she's got one day where she's back at work. And that's such a hard day, that first day when you have to go back to work and leave your baby and then to be like working. And here it almost feels like the hand that rocks the cradle.

You know that movie? I don't, but like I have a sense of what you're. Yeah, there's like a, it was really old. It was like an early 90s movie where this like nanny moves in and just like basically starts like breastfeeding the, woman's baby, like without her knowledge upstairs and like basically trying to like steal her baby. Watch it or don't. Maybe this person shouldn't sounds a little too close to home. Yeah, they probably hit really close to home.

Yeah, I think she just needs, she said like she couldn't hide her annoyance. I think she needs to be more firm. Like that makes me uncomfortable. It could be confusing. Pick a different name. I've heard of this thing. Yeah, I've heard of like grandma's trying to do this. I don't think it's, it's not the first time I've ever heard of this, but, and maybe in some

families, it feels okay if like, I don't know, but I totally get it. I wouldn't be okay with it either. I think you need to be very firm. That's not okay. You're not. That's not what's going to be happening. Nana Cindy was great and we need to find a different name. Mommy Cindy is not going to work. And I think she could be a little, you know, be a little vulnerable and say like, you know, I just went back to work. I'm feeling a little anxiety about like being apart from my, from, it's her daughter, she said. Yeah, from my daughter. From my daughter and like is giving me like a lot more anxiety hearing me, you're asking her to call you mom. Right. Yeah. I think she could, you know, she don't, don't rage, don't scream, just very calmly. I agree. Just say, this is what

I'm feeling. I have these fears about other people spending more time with her than I am. And I really you know, I feel connected to being the only mommy to her. And I want that to be my name. It means a lot to me. I hope you can understand. It's weird that the husband was like, well, what do you want to be called? Like, of course she wants to be called mom. Right.

He's like, do you want to pick something else to be different? Yeah, that was. And even him saying, like, she changes her mind. Like, no, we don't have to wait for her to change her mind. We're going to just let her know. Right. That was an annoying response. Yeah.

She can choose anything else other than mom, mommy, or mama. Right. Like, pick anything else in the world. Gigi, Mimi, whatever it is. Like, it doesn't, yeah. I agree. That's absurd. And I would be, I honestly think the husband's response is just as triggering.

Like, that's your problem. Yeah. You deal with her. Like, not telling me, asking me if I want to. change what I'm going to change what I'm going to know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't, you know. I mean, I guess it's tough because because she's coming in to watch the daughter while they figure out these. That's one of these lines get so blurred, I think, when someone is like, they're usually like the more helpful someone is, the more annoyed, annoying they become because they kind of like probably feel like they're entitled to

to more. Yeah. And that exactly. And it's a very vulnerable position because you, need her. So you feel like, you know, you don't want to leave your child with someone who's angry with you. That doesn't feel like a good moment of like, I'm leaving, I'm going to work. And we've just had this conflict where now there's tension between us. Like that never feels. Yes. Yeah, totally. So I think you have to say it nicely. She is helping out and be very appreciative and say any other name in the whole world besides mom, mama, or mommy is all yours. I appreciate everything you do, but it makes it's an insecure. You could even just say it makes me feel insecure. I feel badly leaving her and having someone else care for her. I wish I could be with her all the time,

but I can't. I hope you can please understand. And I'm sure she'll back off. You would hope. I would give this like seven. That's sort of crazy. Especially the timing. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I'm going to give this a seven that would really tweak me. That's a hard day.

If you're going to, like, if you're going to ask for your name to be something like that, it's crazy to announce it to the child before the mom. Like you would think you would ask, not be like telling the kid that you're their mommy. Yeah. That almost makes me want to make it an eight instead of a seven. instead of us, I'm mommy Cindy. I'm Mommy Cindy. What? What is happening? No, that's crazy. It is. I mean, there is a, you know, I'm not even going to go there because I think she's totally validated, but like this mother-in-law must be going through something. I don't know, like reliving her

days when she was a mom. She should be thankful that she gets to be a grandma, but you're a grandma. It's different. Right. I think there's this like aversion to being a grandma or maybe like wanting to like go back to what you see as your like glory days of. Yeah. Yes. I think there is something that's happening here. And it's there probably is like a grief process in some way on her end or like a longing or a nostalgia that's like she's with this baby and she's just feeling so nostalgic for that time in her life.

But yeah, you got to figure that out without, you know, coming in and doing this. So, yeah, you have to have the, again, this is why you go to therapy, practice having hard conversations so that you can have these hard conversations in real life. If you can have it with your therapist who's there to tolerate it in a healthy way, you can have it with all the people in your life, closure, endings. Even if one day you say, you know what, she's insisting, she's doing this mommy Cindy thing. I can't have her watching the baby. That's another hard conversation that, you know, you might have to have down the line at some point.

Like if she says, no, this is great. I love watching the baby. You don't figure out child care. Like, I'll do it or whatever it is. If that's not what you want, hard conversation. Like, that is part of what you learn to tolerate in therapy. So yeah, another reason to come join one of my groups. We're having some hard conversations this week we're doing basically.

We're having feedback where people are receiving feedback from other members in the group of how they come off and how they're perceived. A little mid-year review. Yeah, first impressions. Like how do you, just so we can, for many reasons. Like you can get some honest feedback. And also we can learn to have hard conversations. and tolerate criticism and yeah, do all sorts of hard things. And then it makes the rest of life a lot easier.

You practice it in therapy and then you do it in real life. All right. Well, we did it again. We'll be back next week. Please give us an update on Mommy Cindy. We want to know how she's doing. We'll draw the line at nursing the baby upstairs in the rocking chair. That's fair.

If that happens, Jordana and I will come in and intervene. In-person intervention, yes. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Betches.