Oversharing - Is It Wrong To Ignore My Mom's Calls?

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Jordana and Dr. Naomi reflect on the interiority and introspection of teenage girls. Our Overshare comes from a Betch going through a divorce who wants to foster a good relationship between her daughters. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener who needs some space from her overbearing mom. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for avoiding the overthinking spiral when people take too long to text back. And we’re feeling triggered by sharing clothes with friends and neighbors who forget we’ve met before. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your position or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going?

How is your weekend? We are in the throes of September. Yes. Or October now, October 1st. Oh, right. Yeah. The weekend was really good. It's interesting.

Your birthday's in September. I love September. Because it's like, especially the end of it and living in Texas too, it's like not summer, but then you have like basically all day on Saturday, we had like a pool day, just kind of, it was like 90 degrees and we're just like relaxing in the pool, playing some reggae music, volleyball on the grass, like had a day that felt like it was like a mid-July day. but it's in the, you know, middle of the school year. So that's really nice to just kind of feel like.

And then you appreciate it more because you're like, this isn't, this is like, feels like a random summer day in the middle of the fall. Right. It's funny how you appreciate like the cool air more and we appreciate when you're like more north. You appreciate the warmth. No, I'm saying it was hot. It was like a nice. Oh, I see.

Yeah. It was like, but it's not, but you're saying it's, but it's not like so hot. I thought, oh, I thought you were saying it was like a reprieve from the summer heat. No, it was not a reprieve from the summer heat. It was still the summer heat. But it was almost like we were just having like a summer pool day, but they're almost done with like their first quarter of school already. Right.

Oh, that's nice. Crazy. But it was just a really nice, like we had a really nice day. You know, so my girls are 12 and 11 right now. And it's a really fun age, especially. as I'm moving more towards the mindfulness stuff, just kind of watching them living at an age that I really remember. Right.

You know, like I really remember middle school. Like, they're both in middle school. And it's not like I'm remembering back to when I was like five or like six. So we were just were like hanging out in the pool and having a really fun conversation. They were just telling me all these little things, like these weird. things that they do that they think are so weird. And I was like, oh my gosh, I used to do, they were like having a little confession session.

Maddie was like, did you ever like open the tampon box in the bathroom just to see what it looks like inside? I was like, actually, yeah, I probably did that when I was a kid, you know? Right. Just like, what is that? What is that thing for? What's in there? she's like, it's so disgusting, but sometimes I just like to open it and look inside.

It's probably intimidating. It's scary. Yeah. Or just like, and it's funny. Like these little things that she was talking about, like, they were talking about when you're a kid and you like rub your hands together and you get those little like dirt worm things, like those little. She was like, you know, talking about that.

And like they were saying how they'll put like a binder clip like a. like on their lip to see like how long they could stand it. So funny. Well, it's like they, it's funny they have these like independent sort of like internal explorations. Yes. Their body in the world. And just like also just like weird little, what is it like a tick.

Yeah. These weird like quirky things. And I was just and it's funny because it what it really is what I think struck me about it was it's kind of what we talk about on here was like they're like in their sense. still. They're like still exploring the world in a different way. Like maybe a toddler is like taking you know macaroni and throwing it on the floor to see what happens. And they're in their own. And that's like how precious it is that kids are, there's like less in their head worrying about the next thing they have to do or where they're like, like when she's in the bathroom, she's kind of like,

still curious. Like, oh, what's in the, you know, has the independent. to do that. Yeah. It's just like moving through the world in a way where you're like, I'm like we were getting ready to leave the house the other day and we were trying to rush to get

wherever we were going. And I'm like, we have to pack the water bottles and make sure that we have sunscreen and you know, don't forget the this and the snacks and what time do we have to be there. And Maddie, who's my middle one, is she's like a little bit of just like a, you know, absent-minded kind of kid.

I'm like getting ready and she's just walking around like picking up random items in the house and like looking at them and then putting them down. And I was like what? I walked up here. I'm like what are you actually?

What is very curiously probably slightly annoyed because like I could use some help but like kind of curious what are you actually thinking when you're like picking up this item and then just like there's definitely two ways to say

what are you? What were you thinking? But I tried to be nice. I was like, no, I really want to know. And she's like, well, I was just curious. I was thinking if I draw on this thing, if I really rub hard with this pencil, will it go through to the other side? And she's 11, right? She's not four. But I was like, you know what? That's beautiful that she's like not thinking about, get the shoes and the water bottle, what time do we have to be there and how many snows? next do I have to bring and like, what if I forget this and what if my friend doesn't say hi when I walk in the door? She was just like in the moment looking at this object curiously, trying to like discover the world. So I felt like inspired by that almost like if we can get out of our heads of always focusing on being so productive and be more like that where I'm just going to like pick up this object and wonder something about it. And I do still think for adults,

is still stuff to wonder about, but we just don't really let our minds go there. Right. Well, that's probably also an indication of you being a pretty good parent. Because I feel like she knows she doesn't have to worry about that stuff because you are. Right. Kind of like you're going to make sure she has the sunscreen in the water and all that other stuff. But I would imagine for a kid whose parent is like not as on their shit. Yeah.

being less able to be in your feelings or in the moment. It's true. And I do have two different kids. Like, you know, Lila's more like, I know that you've forgotten the water. And so I, like, I have forgotten the water. And she's going to remember it because she doesn't like being uncomfortable and not having water. So, you know, the birth order thing with like, you know, the first child that's like organized and, you know, remembering things and like future oriented and planning and preparing

because she doesn't want anything to get messed up. And then the middle one that's maybe she's kind of like, oh, she'll take care of. Not only do I have mom to take care of it. Right. My sister's not going to allow there to be no water or sunscreen. I'm like the third line of defense. So I can chill. Yeah.

No, it's true. Yeah. And I'm sure their introspection will have a lot larger. It will be like almost bigger as they get to that 12, 13, pretty awkward stage of life. that is the most awkward stage of life. I think it's because your body is not sure if it's a child or an adult. Yes. Totally.

There's your brain, I guess. Totally. And it's a topic for a whole different day probably, but like the sexuality that's emerging that like they don't want to talk about. We don't really want to talk about. It's uncomfortable for everybody. So nobody talks about it. So they probably just sit in their own like private thoughts about.

how that is starting to develop because it doesn't just happen where you're like 10 and then one day you're 15 and you're like you know a horny toad you know like there's a process that happens in between

that people metamorphosis yes exactly that's like an awkward metamorphosis that like kids don't want to talk about parents don't want to talk about so they're just kind of dealing with that on their own so yeah that's to come I'm sure but I just I love

Tampons part two. But I had such a laugh when she was like, yeah, sometimes I just opened the tampon box just to see what's inside. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so funny. I think I did that too when I was little. That's funny. So, yeah, chip off the old block. But I do.

I love that curiosity. I really started to try to do that. Like if I, just little things that I could pick up and really be in the moment of an object like, what is this? What is, what could this do? What happens if I do this? Like, it's a great way to just take yourself out of your head too and be in the moment. We talk about being in the moment, like, that's a way to do it. Like, pick something up and be curious about it. Yeah. Yeah. Or it's like that, you know, like that psychological concept of flow when you're like so immersed and whatever you're doing that you sort of lose sense of time. And that's kind of like the ideal situation.

Yes. Totally. And you can be like, all right, I need to. to go to a concert to feel that way, or I need to like, you know, be in, you know, doing an art project or, you know, engaging in a sport or the things that we do as adults, perhaps to get into a flow state. But like, we can get into a flow state at any given moment by just looking at something with curiosity and like really engaging all of our focus on something that has nothing to do with tomorrow or yesterday or later. So I was kind of inspired by that mind of an 11-year-old. Yeah.

Well, it's funny because kids probably think, like, you don't understand. You know, there's always that trope of like, you don't understand what you don't know what it's like. Yes. You don't understand me. They're big into that mindset right now. Yeah. So we've got a great episode.

One of the emails is all about sibling rivalry. I'm sure you'll have a lot to say. about that or, you know, sibling fighting. Another listener doesn't want to speak to her mom on the phone. I can relate to that. We have some intentions for, you know, someone who's dating and having a little bit of anxiety while dating also obviously quite relatable. And then we've got a couple triggers. And those are just about dealing with friends sharing clothes. I'm sure you've done this. I'm sure you've done this. I'm sure many listeners can relate to that. And our final trigger is one that hits near and dear to me, which is when you forget someone's name or you forget that you've met someone that you've already

met and you reintroduce themselves, which I do all the time. All right. Let's get into it. Let's do it. I'm ready. Let's play. Our first overshare is a voicemail. Let's roll the tape. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Thank you guys so much for oversharing and everything about yours. You guys are absolutely the best. I am calling in today because I have, I'm not really sure what this would fall under me, just general oversharing, but I have two daughters, they're five and six, they're almost 18 months apart to the day, and I am divorced, and I am just wondering if you guys can shed a little bit of light on having, on sibling relationships.

I'm an only child, and I just am trying to. be a good mom and foster good relationships between both of my daughters. And because they're so close, they share a lot of things. They have a lot of similar friends and they play a lot together. And they'll love each other. They'll be the best. And then the next minute, they're absolutely horrible to each other. And it's so shocking to me, especially because I don't have anything to compare it to in my own life as far as I don't have any siblings. But then also just on a human level, seeing your two children with the capacity to be so nasty to each other is really crazy. So I really appreciate and admire your guys' relationships, but I also know that

you have so many other siblings and some chaotic family from what you guys have shared on the podcast. And so I would love some insight into how to navigate fostering good relationships between the girls as they're young. And then also, I do think there are some potential inconsistencies at some points. They're dad and I actually do have a really good co-parenting relationship, but I feel like it's a little bit inevitable for it to always be on the same page when we're not all always together. And so if you could lend some advice as far as navigating that as well, because like I said, you two seem to turn out pretty well.

and I would love if my daughters had your kind of relationship in the future. Thanks so much, you guys. Oh, so sweet. Yeah. This is super relatable. My girls are actually also almost exactly 18 months apart. Look, you've talked about this too a little bit before. Yeah, I mean, I honestly, parenting.

I was going to say parenting is not my area of expertise. Like, that's, you know, like I do it. I have not received training in it other than on the job training. So I can really, on a personal level, relate to this concept of sibling rivalry and how that is. It's really hard to watch, you know, people that you love being unkind to one another, you know. And it's always with kids, but it's almost like, if, you know, if you don't know, have kids, if you could imagine, like, living with a couple roommates and two of your roommates are like always just being really mean to each other. It's like, right, just like 10. But also loving

each other too, it seems like, right. Yes, for sure. So all I can say is from, I think this is very normal. This is like really, this is just part of what it is. I don't think there's, or if there is, it's kind of an anomaly to have kids this close in age. that are not doing exactly this, loving each other and then being really mean to each other. And as far as how to deal with it, I think having some minimal involvement, right? You don't want to be breaking up and being a referee

in every single argument that they have. I think you can definitely, if you overhear some meanness, you can make it known that you're listening to some meanness. And the only, you know, what I would recommend is just encouraging them. I think a lot of times they just want to be, just like adults, they just want to be heard. They just want someone to like listen to what they're saying and say, I hear you, I believe you, and tell me more about what's bothering you. Well, what if what they're saying is like my sister's being like an evil, worst, whatever.

and like she did this horrible thing to me. And then does it feel like you're taking a side to say I hear you? I believe you. Right. Well, what I would do is I would have them both like if you are going to get involved, which I think it's probably not the best idea to get involved in every single fight because then what happens is they know you're going to get involved. So they almost like I'll, I know that my kids, they escalate almost so that I'll hear

them and get involved. Like if they, because they, want an ally. They want someone to come in and take their side. So I think if you can try to stay out of it and let them sort of figure it out on their own, unless it's getting really bad. But if it is getting really bad, you can come in and kind of be like, okay, we're going to listen to. I know you both have a lot to say. We're going to listen to each other. Who wants to go first? Well, just like we do in couples therapy. One's going to be the speaker and one's going to be the listener, and then we're going to switch. So who wants to go first? And then one's the speaker and one's the listener and you help

the listener to just kind of say. Is the listener actually listening? Ideally, I mean, these girls are little. They're five and six, but I think they could do it. We're going to just listen to what she has to say. You don't have to agree with her. And then you're going to have a turn and she's going to listen to what you have to say. And we're just going to, even if they don't agree, they're practicing just like having enough self-restraint to let the other person get it out. They just sometimes need to get it out. Like, it's not even about, and then maybe at the end, you figure out, okay, you take turns, you play with the toy for 10 minutes, and then she plays. Maybe that's part of it. But I think a lot of times with kids, it's just a mini version of adults. They just want to say what they have to say.

And a lot of times when they're saying it in a mean way, it's getting shut down, which it should, because you shouldn't be able to talk like that, but you should be able to express what you have to say in a, you know, and like it's almost like that energy release, you know, like just getting, just kind of releasing that emotional energy. And if they can do it verbally, that's a good start, right? Versus throwing something or hitting someone or, you know, being destructive.

Like let them say it, even if they're words that they have to say, you know, maybe they're skewed or they're, you know, sometimes they're like completely ridiculous, you know, like an interpretation of what happened. But just kind of letting them get it out, I think will deescalate sometimes the situation. Yeah, I could totally see that. I think, I mean, I definitely have a lot of experience at this.

I've never been meaner to anyone than I have to my sisters. It's really true. It's like a special. Maybe not you. No, not me. Because you're, yeah, not you. Because we're, and she says, you know, she admires our relationship.

I think because we are 10 years apart, you have so much less of this because you're in such a different phase that you're not going, you know, you were more like a mom than a sister in a lot of ways. I think the older I got, to all of your younger sisters.

But I think there's another element of it too, just having been in it, having been like a middle child with like an older sister and a younger sister and like some of it a little bit and maybe this is maybe where the divorce plays in a little bit is like, I do think growing up

like you'd have all this like these like frustrations or maybe feelings about me, maybe like my own parents divorce or my own like issues in my life, whatever those were when I'm like 11 or like 8. And your sibling as someone that you know is always going to be there. No, you can kind of say whatever you want to them

and they're like your sister and they're your family. And so you kind of can feel like you can maybe like redirect some negative energy onto them or like take out your frustrations on other things going on in your life. Totally. On to them. And, you know, they'll always be there. And a lot of the case, if you're like, if you're the younger sister, you're kind of like, you're still, you're like looking up to the older sister. So you're trying, you know, you're going to take more. And if you said this to your friend, your friend would be like, all right, well, see you never. Yes. You're not my friend

anymore. And probably tell everyone in school how awful and mean you are and then you'd have like not a lot of friends at all. Like you do this in this private secrecy of your home. Exactly. And then your parents still love you both. There's no like real consequence to it besides like and person's like still there and still loves you. And I think being even being like the younger sister and being the older sister in those situations like I see how it was like taken out on me. and I see how I took it out on those younger than me because there's sort of that like the elder child is sort of like the can get away with more.

Yeah. Or like, you know, it's like just in a higher position of power. Yes. It's your first taste of a nice dysfunctional relationship and you get to be on both sides. You get to be like the starter. Starter pack. Yeah.

You get to be the power person that's like, I know I have the power in this relationship. so I can kind of treat you like crap and know that you're not going anywhere. And then you get to be the one that's like, but wait, love me. Like I'm going to pine for you and you're going to treat me like crap and I'm going to keep coming back for more. Totally. I'll give you a massage while you play video games if that's like the only way you said that we can hang out together. Oh my God.

It's so true. And then on the flip side, it's like I get to like I get to get all my. evil urges out on you and know that you're going to keep, yeah, because you want to hang out with me, so you'll kind of do whatever I want there. And then like if I have, if I'm having like a bad day, like where am I going to take it out? I'm going to take it out on the, you know, my younger sister who's just like, again, I know just like we'll take it. And tomorrow I know we'll be fine because we always have been. But I do think, I mean, I don't think it's like, oh, the kids are so upset about the divorce that they're fighting is what I'm saying. But I do think that's something to

think about in the whole dynamic. Sometimes if you feel a little bit powerless or you feel really frustrated or you feel really angry can come out, I think, on those other siblings of yours. And I think speaking from a personal, on like a personal level, I think I was like nine when my parents got divorced. And I feel like I was probably a little meaner around that time to my siblings. Yeah. And I think you don't even, I mean, when you're a kid, you don't even know. Right. I don't think at the time I was at all like, oh, like, this is me expressing my frustration. Yes, whatever. Totally.

You don't even realize that that's what you're upset about, but it is. It's like emotional energy that just gets kind of stuck. So that's why I think letting them have some kind of energy expression, whatever it is. The other thing that I love and I've done with my kids in the past that I think is, I mean, I think it's also my, you know, me like experimenting on my own children in some ways, but it always is amazing is like art therapy, which I'm also not trained in, but I just will kind of like offer up for them to draw something.

And a lot of times little girls do love to draw. And that's a good way if there are these underlying feelings for them to get them out without feeling like they need the words or it's going to be like a whole big, deep conversation. Like kids don't typically love that kind of thing. if you're like, are you having any feelings about the divorce? I could be like, no, not having the feelings. Yeah, it's fine.

Right. But if you say, like, do you want to draw a picture of like mommy's house and daddy's house or like, do you want to draw a picture of our family or, you know, something like that, then maybe it would come out a little bit there. And it's like just kind of opening that pathway for the emotional energy expression without needing to have a whole conversation about it that might be over their heads or make them feel awkward. Right.

But yeah, it is really true. It's like we start, we have these little power dynamics. That's where that starts. And then you grow up. And I'm sure you've been on the powerful side of some romantic relationship. You're like, I know this guy's coming back. Like, I don't really need to text him right away. Or I'm going to cancel plans and not.

Right. Or you see what you can get away with. Yeah. Yeah. You know, which is definitely, you know, it's funny. I wonder if that people always talk about your relationship with your parents is like modeling your romantic relationships. People don't really talk about the sibling one. But I feel like there's that's probably, there's probably an element to that especially since that's your earliest, like probably peer to peer way of, you know, acting around people.

A hundred percent. I think sibling relationships are sort of downplayed in a lot of regards in terms of like attachment and development. and all that kind of thing. So yeah, you're 100% right. And you did, I mean, I didn't really have that with sisters. Like, I didn't really have a sharing clothes. Like, I was eight years older than my, you know, closest sister. So.

Right. And with boys, it's like a little different. Yeah. It's a girl, boy. It's very different. I didn't get close with the brothers until I was older. I mean, we were close. And as kids, like, but not like emotionally.

You know, like it was more like we would play and kind of torture each other. Again, like it's the same thing. Like we would, you know, have these playing relationships, but emotion wise, and that didn't really happen until we were kind of more fully formed. So all this to say, I think this is normal. I'm sure you're doing a great job. And just, you know, be mindful. I don't think it's great to let kids just be really verbally abusive to one another

without at least saying, oh, hey, that's not nice. or that doesn't sound kind or, you know, maybe trying to get them to talk to each other if it works. Right. Well, good luck. Let us know if any of these tips help. Yeah, good question that too. Yeah, I like it.

Let's do a betchesist. I can read this one. Okay, go for it. All right. Hydrogen and Dr. Naomi, this podcast is one of my favorites and has me looking forward to every Tuesday. How often is reasonable to talk to my mom on the phone? For context, I'm a 23-year-old female who just moved out of my parents' house about seven hours away for graduate school.

I previously moved out for college, but I was only 20 minutes away from my parents. However, I still barely saw them. Recently, I've been pretty overwhelmed adjusting to a new school, new classes, new people, and being away from all my family and friends. My mom texts me every week asking when I will be free to call her, to which I respond that I'm very busy, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to. I would have no problem calling her if it was a quick catch-up, but she often asks me millions of questions, so it feels like an overwhelming interview, than a casual catch-up.

Her constant asking to talk annoys me because I feel like she doesn't consider how I'm feeling and is only thinking about her own needs. She also has made comments in our family group chat about how I don't care about any of my family members and how they will probably never hear from me again, even though I respond in the group chat almost every day. These comments put me on the defense,

and make me want to talk to her even less. I often won't even respond to such comments in the hopes that she'll learn that her comments aren't appreciated, which is likely exacerbating the issue. I also wanted to note that we have a Snapchat streak, so she sees me every day and is aware of my daily activities. I also text updates in the family group chat pretty frequently as updating every single family member privately is overwhelming to me.

It's not like she never hears from me, so I don't understand this emphasis on talking on the phone once a week. Am I a bitch for not wanting to call my mom as often as she wants me to? How can I work on establishing my boundaries with her? Thank you in advance for any advice, assigned a horrible daughter. All right. What do you think? I can relate to this a lot.

And I do think it's a tricky moral dilemma, actually, because it's like, and I have this with both my parents where it's like their preference, like my dad's preference is like, I would love to talk to on the phone every day. and that's not my preference, like, at all. It's, like, quite far from my preference. And I under, like, I under, but I'm kind of like, well, you're not like, you're not like an evil person because that's what you want. And, but I'm neither am I. And so, like, who should get what they want in this scenario?

Right. Because you want, this is what you want to talk. You want to be in contact every day. I don't. What do we do here? Right. Yes. It's true.

It is. It's like any type of relationship compromise where you have different needs. I think you just have different kind of attachment needs at this phase in your life. Yeah. Right. So who gets what they want is kind of, I guess, the question. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of room for compromise. But I think what's happening and the dynamic that happens a lot is like if both people are. staying kind of entrenched, it's making the other person more entrenched. So like the daughter's not, the mom asked for the once a week phone call. She says no. And then the mom like wants that once a week phone call even more because it's probably more about her just feel. I don't know that it's about the phone call or it's about the feeling that the daughter wants to connect, you know, that there's like, right. It's almost like a rejection thing. I think that's driving it more than like, I need to know what's happened, like the logistics of what's happening in your life. It's like, I need to know that you want to be connected. Yes, that we are close. Yes. Right. Which is funny

because like even just the act of doing that makes you want to be less close. Yes. Because it feels so forced. Yes. So now the daughter, you know, now the mom's like pushing more getting and there's probably even like a little, not even a little, she said it. There's a tone of like, you know, like a negative attitude towards her about it. Like she never calls the family. You'll probably never hear from her again. So now she's getting more entrenched in her position, which makes the daughter more entrenched in her position of like, I don't even want to deal with you now. So now they're moving farther away from each other. So let me ask you, I guess, let's say, and I don't see this happening in your relationship with your kids. But hypothetically, Lila turns 23 and you're like, love to talk to you on the

phone. I don't know how often at 23 you'd want to talk to her. Every day. Every day. Let's say it's every day. It's, you know, like she is not interested in that. Like, how would you deal with that? Yeah. I mean, look, I can, as, again, as my kids get older. And this is every week, I guess. So It's a little different. Totally. I can feel for the mom, but she's fighting against her own cause. That's the issue, right? Like there probably needs to be a little bit more open communication.

I would be, you know, I would feel disconnected. I would feel like, oh my gosh, we used to be so close and you used to tell me everything. And now I don't know what's going on in your life. And I feel like an outsider, like in my own child's life. And for their whole life, you're kind of like so. I know exactly what you had for lunch every day. I know exactly who all of your friends are. Like you're so enmeshed in their lives when they're little.

And then all of a sudden it's interesting that she's 23. It's like this beginning part of like you have a whole world that I don't know about. And that is hard to sort of come to terms with. So I think that's part of it as well. In addition to the way she's going about it, which is like criticizing her and telling the whole family, you'll probably never hear from her. Like, that's not a good way to go about it.

And like, the other one that I hear a lot is like asking a million questions. So, like, I have a lot of patients and I'll talk to them and they'll tell me something that I know. And I'll say like, oh, did you tell your parents or do your parents know? Or like, I'll ask a question. A lot of times the answer is no. And I do get curious, like, why. And a lot of times it's like the barrage of questions, I think is something. that really irritates people in terms of their parents.

But again, it's like a vicious cycle. You don't talk to her a lot. So when you do talk to her, she's trying to squeeze in every question that she has into your 20-minute phone call. Yeah. And I relate to what she was saying too. Or it's like if it was like five minutes and we are done,

great. Like every, like that makes sense. Like I would, you know what I mean? You'd love that. But there's no, it kind of feels like, this huge commitment to calling someone where like it could be an hour on the phone and you're like, I don't, there's much fewer times I can tolerate an hour long call than there are a five-minute call. Yes. Yeah. So I mean, part of this might be like just some more open communication,

like defenses down, open communication saying, look, when we talk, I feel like you ask me like a ton of questions and it just makes me feel stressed out. like I have to have the right answers. And a lot of times with mother-daughter dynamics, there's this feeling of like they're so, um, like invested in your life that if you tell them something that's not going well or that's a problem or you don't have the answer to the question that they want, then they, then they get like anxious or upset for you and that's just a pile on. So that I think makes, you know, parent, child, adult relationships difficult because now they're dealing with their own emotions about the situation and their parents' emotions about the situation.

So it's easier to not even talk about that. So if that's part of it too, I think it would be helpful if she kind of explored what are the parts that are difficult. Like she said, too many questions. The phone calls are too long. I feel criticized by you around the way that I'm acting in my life towards perhaps other family members and coming to her and very nicely saying, like, I know that We have this conflict around how often we speak. And these are the issues that are keeping me from wanting to call you more. Right. And hopefully the mom, coming back to like if this was me in 10 years and my daughter came and said,

like, when we talk, you ask me a million questions and it actually makes me anxious, I'd be like, okay, thanks for letting me know. I'll do that less often. Yeah. I'll try not to do that as much. or I'll just kind of listen and just be like, oh, wow, that sounds interesting or that sounds tough or, you know, what do you think you're going to do? Do you have any ideas about what you're going to do about that or, you know, just a little bit more like the mom checking her own emotions around what the daughter is going through? I think that's a big thing that a lot of parents do. No, I agree with that, but I do feel like a lot of parents wouldn't take that feedback. I think you would. Yeah.

I think a lot of parents are kind of like thinking that they know the right way or like, or, you know, think you're being difficult or you're being rude or like don't think that. And then it becomes a lot of the time where it's like, do I just not, and this is a weird thing to say about your parent. It's like, do I just not enjoy speaking to you? Do I not enjoy your personality? Yes. Which is like a weird thing, I think, to realize as an adult and probably a difficult thing to like come to terms with and kind of a sad thing if someone raises you from when

you're a child like the idea that your kid could not like you. It's probably not something that that many people consider. Yes. Like maybe we just don't vibe. Yes. What do you do in that scenario? Yeah. Right? No, it's really true and it's hard because like you can, you know, the parent can just be themselves their whole entire, you know, the whole time they're raising the kid. And then all of a sudden they get to a part where they're like, oh, wait, I have to like actually maybe be a little bit of a different person in order for you to tolerate me. Right. Like I have to have a little bit more of a filter or say certain things less.

But I think you end up doing that with a lot of people in your life. But yeah, that is hard to have to do that with your own kid when it feels like, oh, we're family. Like, I could be so myself. But you know what? Sometimes you can't. Because if the way that you're acting is upsetting the other person to the point where they're not wanting to talk to you, then like you might have to not always just unbridled, be completely yourself with certain people in your life. And that's, and that's tough. But I do think this is coming

from like a whatever it is that she's not liking about her is coming from some emotion that the mom is having around her being excluded from her life or her moving far away. Although she did say when she was 20 minutes away, they barely saw each other. Right. Maybe it is this feeling of like she's gone in the mom's own feeling of internalizing that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think she, yeah, I think if she could say to the mom, and I think this is all she

needs to do, I can commit to an eight-minute phone call every Sunday. Right. And like, and that's what like that fits into my time schedule. That fits into my like, my own like energy. needs, like, that's, that would feel, I would be excited to call you every Sunday for eight minutes. Right. Yeah. I mean, you could, you could definitely try that. I think it is probably not going to help the mom feel like less rejected around it. Because what I don't, I don't really think she, my hunch is she doesn't just want the phone call. She wants the daughter to kind of want the phone call.

Right. Well, that's therein lies the problem. Right. Right. But I do think it's worth a shot to say to her, look, these are the things that make me, there's something happening in the daughter that's like not comfy when she's interacting with the mom. So she needs to figure out what that is, communicate it to the mom and give her a chance to see if she can maybe not ask so many questions. It's okay. Like she could probably tolerate that if that's the part that's irritating her. or a big one is like when I say I have to go,

I want to be able to go without a guilt trip or you continuing to talk to the point where I have to like literally almost hang up the phone on you, which I think happens. Like I love, we have so many siblings and what I love about all of them is like, if someone's like I got to go, it's like respect it. All right, yeah.

Okay, bye, talk to you later. Love it. Not the case, parents. Right. I think we probably all respect that because it's like you know what it feels like to not have that. And then it just makes you not want to call because you never know it's going to take you 10 minutes to get off the phone. Right. And I think that if the person doesn't respect that, then you can kind of just hang up. Yeah. You could just say, I really got to go. I'll talk to you soon. Hang up. Yes. Yes. Yes. And you get, you know, you get a thick skin to that. But I think for a lot of people, it's like that. That's tough.

So I would definitely start with like a calm, not in the middle of a tense thing when you're having some warm feelings and you're craving more closeness with her, if that happens, to have this conversation and say, these are the things that are blocking me. The other piece of advice is like,

texting is easy. So just shooting her a text every now and then, you know, maybe on a daily basis, I know you're doing Snapchat, but I don't know if that's just photos and she doesn't really know exactly the context, or texting is a better way to kind of be like, all right, I'm not going to get stuck on the phone.

I'm not going to get a million questions. And if I do, I don't have to answer them. So it's a nice way to stay connected without that thing of like, I get on the phone and I get, like, attacked with questions about every aspect of my life. Right. Don't they understand? Less is more. I mean, the more, the less someone wants something, the more,

Or like if I haven't heard like I talked about my dad wanting to talk every day. Like if I haven't heard from him for like six days, I'm like, oh, I should give him a call. Yes. Like, yeah. Yeah. It is okay. There is a sense of like, oh, like you want to call them. Right.

You know what I mean? And a lot of this does come back to attachment. I think if the mom, I don't know what's going on if she has a partner, if she's still with the dad. Like a lot of times if they're if they don't have their own attachments, then their children like become their attachments and they're very fixated on maintaining that attachment. So that's tough too when you become your parents like attachment figure. Right. And we talked about that a lot, especially like for people with parents in their only child, if they're like an only child. It's probably a lot.

It is. Responsibility. It is hard. There's, I mean, there's so many ways I love a night. Like you talk about greeting. cards with Mike. I think that's a great way to kind of be like, hey, thinking about you, love you a lot. There's a lot of words in this card.

It's heartfelt. I'm going to stick it in the mail. And when you get it, you're going to feel like a burst of love from me. Yeah. And you don't need to call me to tell me how great you feel. You could just feel it. Let's do some intentions. Do you want to read them?

Sure. I'll read this. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana, big fan of oversharing and you up. Thanks for all you do. I'm wondering if you can help me with setting an intention. I'm dipping my toes back into the dating scene and finding myself starting to spiral slightly over text conversations. I tend to immediately focus on the most negative possible reason why a guy might take time to text back or initiate plans or respond to invitations to spend time together. But it's almost always the case that things go well and I end up getting the response I'm hoping for. I'm working myself up

over nothing. I'd love an intention to help me sit with the discomfort of waiting for a response and to keep myself from going down the road of imagining the worst case scenario and thinking the next thing I'll hear is, I'm just not into you, or assuming the most negative reason slash intention on the part of the guy I'm texting. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. I like this question. I think many, many daters, especially anxious daters, deal with that kind of thought process. of like kind of just like a lot of anxiety and panic when you're when you put yourself out on the limb in any way whether that's like texting someone first or initiating a plan totally feels like very intense yes the waiting is so it's really really tough to have that space where your mind

wants to jump in and fill it up with all the possible ways that this can go and I think for a lot of people, the negative thinking is just like kind of bracing yourself. It's like preparing yourself, which is a false sense of like control over a situation. Like if I prepare myself that this guy's not going to answer or the next text is going to be, I'm just not that into you. Then somehow it feels like it's going to be less painful. Right. And then there's I think also the anxiety around like, especially as a woman, like, did I come on too strong? Was I like clingy? Was this too much? And he's going to be like, oh my God, no. So I think that definitely adds into it. I don't know if that's part of what she's feeling. But it's interesting. She says it usually works out. Yeah.

It's almost always working out, which is not always the case for everyone. So that's great in her scenario that she's kind of, if the more she does this, the more she's sort of proven wrong. Like the assumption is proven wrong. Right. But it is funny. I talk to a lot of people where it's like, no matter how much evidence they get, that it usually works out, they still can't shake that automatic, like, protection of like, this isn't going to work out. I need to brace myself for it, even if they keep getting evidence over and over and over again. I think that's like anxiety in general. It's kind of like, I always get anxious before the presentation. The presentation always goes well, but I still get anxious before the presentation. And I think it's your mind, like I always talk about, especially when it's like this waiting piece, right? When you're waiting, there's nothing you can do. You're not going to send another text because that's like, obviously. Because then you should get dumb.

Yeah, you're not going to send another text. There's no amount of like internet stalking. If you can, you've probably done it already to see if they're on their phone or what they're doing. There's nothing left to do. So what your mind wants to do is make you feel like you're doing something when you're not. So your mind will create something to do, which is to worry and ruminate and think and then go down the rabbit hole of, well, what if he, like everything you just said, is it because I came on too strong? Is it because I, you know, did this? Is it your mind's just trying to find answers to something to which the only answer is that you have to patiently wait

and watch it unfold. And that's really hard. But I think the biggest tip that I can give, and this goes for everything, is if you can know your mind enough to watch it doing what it's doing, like step back, be the observer, watch your mind doing the thing instead of being like in the thing. You're kind of like, oh, look at what my mind is doing. It's trying to tell me I shouldn't have text. It's trying to tell me why did you send that. It's trying to say, oh, you probably, you know, thinks you're coming on too strong or I bet you're never going to hear from him again. Just watch it. Look, oh, there it goes again. And then you can kind of step back from that and realize what's really happening is I'm seeking a feeling like that. Like that's,

Getting that text back is like a boost, like a jolt of adrenaline, yeah. Yes. Or also the, yeah, a feeling of like when, like I won or like I'm accepted. Yeah, I'm okay. It just feels like, okay, I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm not like an outcast. I'm not being abandoned here.

So what you really want is that feeling. and you're pinning it all on this text. So I think coming back to the realization of like, I'm craving this feeling, I have to wait for that, but maybe I can seek out another moment of joy that is a little bit more within my control. Like we talked about in the beginning,

just getting in the moment of going outside and looking at a flower and being curious about what the petals look like, or how the pollen is falling or going outside and watching the simple pleasures of life, they're not going to give you the same huge jolt that attacks from someone that you're interested in is going to give you. But they'll take you out of that rumination and it'll take you out of that rumination and maybe give you a little moment of like, oh wow, I never noticed that, just that. That's a moment of joy, simple pleasure of, oh, I never noticed that before.

and now it's like you're not trying to control anything. You're just observing what's already there. I like that. Yeah. If you can manage to get out of it. Yeah. And one... Sometimes it's hard to concentrate on anything.

It is really hard. I get it. But I think the first step is almost like getting to know your mind and its patterns and watching it do its thing. It's almost like if you see it happening, you're not as like entrenched in it because you're watching it from the outside. So it sounds like this is a pattern for you.

And if you can step back and watch your mind doing its little dance, then you can be better able to kind of step back. I realize, okay, like this usually turns out well, but also on flip side, I'll be okay if it doesn't. Right. I was okay before I met this person and I'll be okay if I never hear from them again.

I think that's a big part of it too. It's almost like reframing the anxiety of like, is this person going to like me to turning it around and saying like, let's see what this person answers. That'll tell me a lot more about like if he's a good match for me. Yes. Or if I, you know, like if this person, if it's, if it's seven hours later and I don't hear back from this person, that's something, is that someone I want to date? Yes. I like that. I really do like that. So an intention that I wrote around this is I will, will observe my mind trying to grasp for the feeling I'm craving. I trust that feeling will come, but for now I will seek out a simple moment of joy. So realizing you're not you're not

grap you're not craving this person. If it's very early in dating, right, you probably don't even know them that well. You're not looking for them. You're looking for the feeling that you think you're going to get from them. And that feeling is out there in a million other ways. So I like that. It's a good, good one for all the daters out there. Let's do some triggers. Our first one's a voicemail. Let's roll the tape. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi.

I am calling the triggered situation. I have a friend and it's pretty, I think, common in a lot of groups of friends for people to borrow each other's clothes when we're on a trip or at a wedding, whatever it might be. And I have a friend who will often ask to borrow my clothes. And then she will try them on and specify the reason that she's not going to wear it as it being too big. This has happened before with like sweaters, with dresses. I am probably like eight inches taller than her. Just am a bigger person than her, but it's not unreasonable that we would be able to wear the same clothes.

Most recently this happened at a wedding and she tried on a few different dresses of mine and told me that they were too big. and even said something like, well, if I wear a bra, maybe I'd be able to fill it out. She ended up actually wearing one of the dresses that I was letting her borrow. And that I think really was just kind of the kicker for me that she had been saying like throughout the day like, oh, well, it's too big. It's too big. And then where is it anyways? But either way, I think that there's something that's just a little rude or offensive about telling somebody that their clothing is too big for you. I think if I were trying on a friend's clothes and it didn't fit, I would just be like, oh, this one didn't work for me.

So either way, I'm curious to hear what you think, how triggered I can be, if this is more just something that I need to work on on my end. Either way, love the podcast and thank so much. This is funny. Yeah, this is funny. Trying on other people's clothes is, I don't know. it's a tough one because nobody's body shapes are going to be the same. Like, you know, it's always going to bring up feelings around differences between bodies. Right.

How this looks on you versus how this looks on me. Is it going to look equally good on both of us? Right. And yeah, I do think it's like a little annoying that you just keep saying it's too big. It's too big. It's like it's not like you're at a store. Right. Also, it's like you're getting it for free.

someone's doing you a favor by lending you a dress, like just to have to be a little more tactful. Like not the right fit. Even just like not the right fit is like, I think fine. Yes. Like she said, didn't work for me is probably the best.

Yeah. What the most triggering thing about this, which I could see being really annoying, is that she wore it, said it was too big, or tried it on, said it was too big, chose to wear it anyway, and then kept repeating,

about how it was too big. So that, it's one thing, even if at one point she tries it on once, oh, this doesn't fit me, it's too big. A little annoying, I get it. But to then wear it all night and keep talking about it, that's annoying.

That's rude, yeah. But it also does sound, in the friend's defense, like maybe it was like a boob issue because she said if I wear a bra, it will fit. Maybe I can fill it out. Right.

Fill it out. And she's eight inches tall. that is right so the flip side of this is she's asking maybe this is me and I'm not saying it's you because I think anytime this happens it is triggering but like you're eight inches taller sounds like you probably have a bigger chest than she does maybe that's why she feels comfortable saying all this like it might be her own insecurity around yeah like I'm a little flat chested and short and you're tall and like busty. And so I don't don't think either one, you wouldn't be offended by it because that's kind of what this is or two, like I'm making myself feel better about my own

insecurities by pointing out like this one thing that like it's big that might be making her feel better about her own insecurities. Still annoying. But yeah, I think it is annoying. I think she's uncomfortable in the dress, or uncomfortable with her own body in the dress. And that's how she's saying it. But she's now making it like your problem. No one wants to hear anyone talking about their clothes, like they're huge on them. I think no matter. Yes. Where the large part is. Right. No one wants to hear like people borrowing my clothes say they're huge. Yeah. Although I honestly like I would, and this is a fantasy and I think she could work on. Yes, this is triggering. She can be triggered. but I do think she could work on like,

I'm tall and that's beautiful. And even if I'm tall and I'm big, maybe that is beautiful. And like I am going to recognize that like my initial reaction is this is triggering because bigger is worse and smaller is better. Right. But it might be nice to kind of work on like not necessarily needing to give into that in the sense of like you can't say I'm big or bigger because then you're mean

and you're pointing out something that's bad about me, where maybe it's just like, okay, maybe it is a fact. Maybe you are bigger than her, and maybe that's okay. So, like, I do think there might be a little work to be had here around kind of rewriting the narrative that bigger is worse. I agree with that.

I think that's totally true she could and should work on that, but I also think, like, societally, like running around. just saying that you're wearing a dress that's too big on you. It's like, you should know. I know. But like, I do agree, obviously, like, the notion of bigger is worse is not a great way to be. Yeah. Society hasn't caught up yet. And I went through this personally, my own journey around my body image was that I always kind of like, like, I'm tall. I always felt kind of like an Amazonian, like an Amazon woman. Especially when you're next to like a five foot, like petite. tiny person. Like I always feel that way too where I'm like, I am like her bodyguard. Yeah. And I always want like I was that a lot. Like, you know, especially in college, I remember,

you know, a lot of the men, you know, Brandeis wasn't a big like athletic school. We didn't even have a football team. Like the men were, you know, weren't like the biggest guys in the world. And I always felt like so big and self-conscious. And then I think as I got older, I started to realize, like, this is okay. Like, it's okay to be big. It's not a bad thing. It's just, you know, if I feel like I'm healthy and I'm fit and like I, you know, I'm taking good care of my body, then it feels, you know, you have to kind of grow into your, like,

confidence in that you are what you are and you don't have to try to be. different. If you're eight inches taller than her, I'm assuming you're tall. And that's beautiful. And you are bigger than her. Like you are bigger than her, probably. And maybe just that. But that doesn't have to be a bad thing. So I get that it's triggering because of, you know, societal norms. But I also think this might be a good opportunity for you to say, hey, how can I just be like, okay, yeah, I'm bigger than you. And that's okay. And this dress doesn't fit it, fit you. So take it off, bitch.

Give it back. Yeah. That's it for you. You're done. What would you give this? I'll give it a four. I was thinking a four. I think that's the right space for it.

I get it. I do get it. But in the scheme of things, I think this is just maybe a little warning sign for you that you need to own your shape. And I get it. I've been there. Like I was, I would not have liked this.

I, you know, at a different point of my life, felt differently about being bigger. And now I, you know, have kind of, like, I do have friends where I'll joke, like, they'll put on some of my shirts and it's like so big on them. And it's like funny, you know, because it's like, all right, I'm bigger. Well, it's funnier when you're making the joke. Yeah, that's very true. Right. Then when they are. All right.

Let's do one more. I will read it. Here's my triggered situation. I've lived in my neighborhood for a couple of years now. I have a preschooler and have gotten acquainted with several other moms around the hood on the playground, birthday parties, neighborhood events, etc. There's one mom with a kid close in age to mine who I have interacted with at least eight times. We aren't BFFs for obvious reasons. And to be honest, I forgot her name until recently. But I've known she is En's mom and I know which street they live on and a few other surface facts about their family from our several interactions. Every single time we interact, she acts like she has never ever met me or my son, asking questions like, are you new to the neighborhood? It's so nice to meet you, et cetera.

I wouldn't be offended at all if she just forgot my name, but the fact that she acts like this is our first interaction ever is just weird. Even my partner has commented about how this lady acts like she has never met us every time we see her. Are we really that forgettable? Does she have amnesia? I feel like I can't be that triggered since her name didn't stick with my brain for a long time. But when I try to remind her about how we have actually met before, she's oblivious. Fifty first play dates. Oh my gosh. That's funny.

Yeah, seven times is a lot. I'd give her a pass if it was like two or three. This recently happened to, I mean, like the only reason I'm feeling like bad for the person, the neighborhood that she's talking about is like I recently had an interaction with someone. where I introduced myself, and she was like, we met like twice before. Or whatever. And I still, and before, I knew, like, this person was, like, coming.

And I was like, oh, I've never, I had met her husband, but I had never met her. And I, like, knew. I was like, in my mind, I was like, oh, I haven't, I'm about to, like, meet her for the first time. And I, like, I almost don't believe her. I'm like. Oh, so you still don't recall the. I still, after she said that, I still didn't remember. but I felt awful.

Yeah. Well, I guess meeting someone is kind of a gray term, right? Like, there's a meeting like, hi, this is Jordana. This is, you know, Emily. But like, it's different if, like, you're in the same room and you kind of have had a whole conversation. But, yeah, I mean. Right, yeah. I think there's different, yeah, having a conversation is different than just like,

I see you standing there with your kid. I'm standing next to you with my kid. kid, maybe you're paying attention to me and my mind is elsewhere. I think that's really what it boils down to. But if you've had conversation, like, looked at each other in the eye and spoken, but maybe we've never technically met, like, you know, yeah, there's some gray area here, but seven times, that's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah. No, that's a lot. If you met this woman seven times you would know. I would remember. Well, now that she's, now that she said that, I will never, I'll never forget her. Right. Because I thought, because I, because it made an impression on me of

feeling making me feel quite ashamed. Yes. Of like, because I usually, I usually, if I'm not sure, I will go with, it's great to see you. Yes. And then that covers, or it's nice to see you. Yes. That usually covers both, even if we, we haven't met or whatever. Totally. But this one I was like so confident that I did the introduction myself. But yeah, I'm surprised if she, if she corrected her like once. Yeah, that she wouldn't be like, oh yeah, we met that she wouldn't remember. Like you said, almost like shamed into remembering the next time. I wonder if she said that or if she just goes along with it every time. I think she, it sounds like she said something about it. Like she said when I try to remind her about how we've actually met before she's oblivious.

Okay, well, then if she's done that more than once, then I think that's especially triggering, or she actually does have some sort of memory issue. Yeah, I think this is a her issue. Like, I have a feeling that, like, what happened to you was like a great example of like, someone might just be distracted when they met you, right? That happens, like, maybe you had a bad day,

maybe you were going through something and happened and your mind was like not focused on that at all, it didn't register, fine. It happens, first of all, seven times. And second of all, she's, like, tried to remind her of how they've met before. She didn't pick up on the social cues of, like, this could be offensive. Let me make sure that I don't do this again. It sounds like this is probably happening with many people in her life.

Like, I almost feel bad for her. Like, maybe there's something going on that she's, like, not able to focus in her life. And she forgets the husband. too. So distracted. Yeah. Yeah. This is, this really sounds like something's up with her. Maybe she's going through something or she's just like so distracted or anxious or something where she's not focusing. I mean, I guess the worst thing she's worried about is that she's just like kind of evil and like pretending she doesn't know her to make her feel small. I think the worst thing she's worried about is that there's nothing wrong with her and she and her husband are just like so

list to her and mean absolutely like are and are so forgettable that people don't even remember interacting with them. Right. But like what does that even mean? I'm so forgettable. Like. Right. To me it just means you had like a normal non super interesting conversation with that person.

Right. Okay. And if that's, I don't think that's the case. I think there's something up with this person. I could see that being the thing if this happened twice, maybe three, times. If you've met her seven or eight times, this isn't like normal. There's something going on in her brain that she's not focusing on, like, talk about being present, right? Like, she's not. Her mind is somewhere else in all of these interactions. Maybe she's worried about the impression that she's

making. Maybe she's worried about, I don't know what, but I honestly wouldn't take it personally because it's, you know. Pray for her. Yeah. pray for her. But yeah. I'd give it a five. Yeah. Because I think it would be like, all right. Like, I've already, if I already said something to you, like, you should be, you should

remember me just because of your embarrassment. Right. The five, I agree. The five is like, now you're just inconsiderate about the fact that you're, that you were rude. Right. You're not just like spacey. Right. So I wouldn't, I certainly would try not to look at this as like there's something

wrong with me that we're not, she doesn't remember who we are. I would find it triggering because it's like I kind of, you know, made it pretty clear that we've met before. And then again, you don't take the cue. And this, that's what makes me think this probably is happening to her all the time. All the time. Yeah. Yeah. She's like immune to the fact that it's offensive when you've met someone and then you don't remember them. All right. Well, five, if it happens more than 12 times, again. If it still happens after more, you can write in again. Yeah, right in again.

We'll give you a good response. Yeah. All right. Well, we did it. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Rebecca Steinberg. Editing by Will Maxwell. Guest booking by Allie Friedlander. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and everything's fine.

And send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.