Oversharing - Is Leaving A Job As Emotional As A Breakup?

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

Dr. Naomi is ready to embark on her Hawaiian vacation but before she can jet set away, Jordana has an important question for the seasoned therapist: Do men and women approach therapy differently? They get deep about the differences between the two sexes and how they tap into their emotional selves and Dr. Naomi brings some anecdotal evidence to prove that women might be a little more wired to work on themselves than their male counterparts. The Overshare of the week comes from a listener who was recently blessed with a pregnancy but is reeling after her sister in law spilled the tea to literally her entire baby shower despite explicit instructions not to. Speaking of secrets, the Betchicist comes in with a moral conundrum around gun ownership when one woman is scared to divulge that her ex-military beau not only has a gun, but that he keeps one in the house. Is she required to tell her friends before they come over? Dr. Naomi helps set an intention for a Betch that is moving into greener career pastures but is feeling a little heartsick about the colleagues she's leaving behind. Finally they explore two triggered scenarios, one around a seemingly innocuous comment about “healthy babies” that left one mom spinning and another about how an innocuous concert invite turned into an unforeseen $100 expense for one Betch. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Trinane Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And we are back and I'm excited for you. You're about to, we've done some recording before because you're going to go to Hawaii. Very exciting. Yes, this is our last recording before I leave. Three weeks with no seeing each other. That's going to be a reunion. I know.

It is going to be real. I was just thinking that. It's going to be fun to come back. I'm going to like, it's crazy. I don't know if you ever feel this way. I know some people probably I like what I do. So yes, I'm excited to take a break, not have responsibilities, not have to schedule or do any of it. But I'm going to miss my people.

So you being one of them. So I will miss you too. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, that's the dream, right? I feel that way too. And I'm gone like I'm not like so, so overly excited for vacation. Like it is, it is, when you do like what you do, that's kind of amazing.

But I had a question for you because I was, I've been seeing a lot in, I guess, the dating and relationship space. And I guess there's like a lot of overflow into what we talk about. obviously we still talk about dating and relationships, but like this idea of there being like a lack of men for the amount of available attractive and just like accomplished women, that there's just like there's a ton of women and there's not that many men. And this idea that like women are constantly working on themselves and like going to therapy and like working out and just trying to like maximize all these areas of their life. And it seems like maybe for men

And it's not that there's not a feeling like they need to do that. So I was wondering about, I thought it would be interesting to ask you if you have male patients, if you experience a resistance of men to like work on themselves or like therapy or anything like that or like what you found the male attitude towards therapy is like doing, I mean, I guess you're having all the people who opt in. So maybe that's the general population. But what's been your experience? Yeah, well, I do think, I guess maybe a good example would be someone that comes in as a couple, right?

Or another good example, which I don't really do, would be like an adolescent where their parents are kind of forcing them in or a couple where you're like, I'm not coming in necessarily for myself. I'm coming in because I care about this particular relationship. But I, yeah, I can see that. I do think there is a different. that women have for themselves to almost to kind of like be the best version of themselves so that they can, I think a lot of it is like kind of get the security of a partner. Like I think there is something and like I don't feel safe until I can, you know, achieve the security of having somebody pick me out of all the women.

And I think that happens sometimes in friendships as well as in romantic relationships. So I think romantic relationships are, you know, depending on your, if you want to be a mother, if you want to get married, like that might be a focus. But I think women do tend to feel like I need to be the best version of myself to secure, like we were talking about last week, like these really deep. friendships. I need to be a good communicator. I need to be open-minded. I need to be accepting. I need to be non-judgmental. And I don't think that's quite as much of a thing for male friendships. Right. It's almost like if we like doing the same things together, you like to play golf, I like to play

golf. If you're not the best listener or if you make kind of like an insensitive comment about something, I'm not going to probably not be friends with you anymore unless you like. You like actually steal from me or sleep with my wife or like are really annoying or you know, I don't think there's the same expectation of like how you have to show up to keep people around. I would definitely agree with that. I also feel like they're not like constantly assessing each other's personality traits as to how and to like how they kind of fit in with their own. It's just kind of like they're not thinking about it that much. Right. And it's interesting because we have like a, you know, in our betchesist section, and as we do always, like an ethical dilemma. And I think there is a little bit more of a high standard for friendships in terms of like what your moral code is and like how I judge you and perceive you and how I size you up in addition to are you fun? Are you like easygoing? Are you getting mad at me all this?

the time. Can you handle your emotions? Like there's so many different little traits that I think women are always kind of sizing them up on themselves up on that men just, I don't think are, I think it takes, this is my personal experience. I think it takes more like a devastation or a breakup or a heavy depression or something like. like that for typically for men to say, I really need to work on myself. Right. Whereas women might be like more very slightly perceptive of like, oh, this friend is distancing herself slightly or I want to achieve something more than what I already have

that might bring you to therapy before, you know, you're devastated and this shit hits the fan. I get a lot of guys. This is my experience. This is not research backed. after a big breakup. Like I get a lot of men coming in after a breakup or a job loss or something like that. And then I've had this happen many times where like they get a new girlfriend and like

therapy's over. They stop coming. Okay. Yeah. Right. So I think that because I mean, I think Jared says this a lot on you up where it's like men are sort of like problem solving oriented or kind of just like do things as a means. to an end. It's a little bit less like holistic, I feel like in their minds of like I'm,

again, I'm growing and changing and I'm talking this out with someone and more like, here's my issue and now I'm like feeling desperate enough to like find someone to help me work through it. And then when the problem is seemingly solved, relationship, job, whatever it is, they're backing out of it. Yeah. And I think they also probably just don't enjoy the process as much. You know, like women tend to, you mean, culturally. And I think in some ways, there is like an evolutionary component to the socialization of women kind of being more connected to friendships and wanting to have like a verbal, almost like emotional connection in friendships in a different way. Like men bond by kind of like doing things together and being on a team together or like going out like you said with a team. task and a goal that they can accomplish together. Right. That's kind of more evolutionarily

how men bonded. And I think women bonded in more of like a, you know, verbalizing emotional support kind of way. And we're still the same like cave people that we were. So I think men don't maybe enjoy the process quite as much of opening up and it feels more vulnerable and maybe more dangerous or just icky. Right. And I think there's not like, okay, there's not like a prescriptive sense of it

of like, okay, five sessions and then you're going to be done. I think it just does feel like this like, all right, like it's not like problem, solution over. It's kind of like an ongoing thing, which does feel less solution oriented in some ways.

Yeah. And look, I get that too. Like I've said this many times, like coming into therapy and just kind of like ruminating about the problem of the day, you know, for some people that scratches an itch and they like it. But if you don't like it, that sounds kind of like we're just going to indefinitely do this thing that doesn't really feel great. And, you know, I, it's almost like I

could see, almost like Mike being like, wait, so we're just going to have this chat like, you know, and then what? Yeah. You know, every Friday night. we're going to have these like chats where we talk about the things that are bothering us um just forever it's kind of like right and to me that sounds like fun right yeah right yeah but yeah it's true i think it's true also that men don't get as much you know women are are socialized to do that from a young age like kind of like you've said and men are not that's not something that men are like used to do it yeah yeah and i i just think that There is, you know, even there's a comedian that used to do a bit.

And Jeff will say this to me all the time, kind of like, we're always working on me. Right. Like, you know, like the result of the conversation is like that the guy's got to do something differently and he's going to learn a lesson here. And but the truth is, that's probably the case because we're like working on ourselves internally. Constantly. Right. Always. How can I show up as a better friend?

How can I show up better at work? How can I meditate more? How can I exercise more? How can I eat better? Like we're constantly working on ourselves. So if you have to just work on yourself every now and then after we bring the whole thing to light, that's like your moment. Now you get to do what we do all day long. Right.

That's why we're always working on you. Exactly. I love it. I think it's a really interesting. topic, I think like the way that therapy or just like the gender gap is as women and men get closer and closer in terms of like wages and education and, you know, there's more women in college than men. I think that it's interesting to see how some of these things shift and some of these things don't shift leading to, you know, a lot more like single mothers by choice or people

who feel like there, you know, there's just not as many men in the dating pool for them who are like, of the caliber of like done the work that they've done on themselves. Right. Yeah. And I do think it will start to even itself out. I do think men are way more like in touch with themselves and their emotions and willing to talk. And even, you know, the men that I see in therapy, you know, in couple situations, like they're leaning in and they're doing the work. And I think it's going to, they're going to kind of catch up.

And I am excited to see what happens when there is like an openness to vulnerability and a, you know, kind of introspection on both ends, like evenly. I do think that it's heading in that direction, certainly. Right. Yeah. Even the idea of like 50, 50 parenting, like that is like an expectation now for a lot of people. And that was not even a thing. Like even as when I was a kid, which wasn't that long ago, you know, like,

in my lifetime, that whole thing has changed. Yeah. No, that's true. I think, like, there's just, there's an equaling out of those things. I was listening to this podcast where they were basically saying that a lot of women say they want a man who's, like, in touch with his emotions and, like, able to cry and able to go there. But then when they actually show that vulnerability, they find it to be, like, emasculating. Yeah. So it is kind of, I guess, a thing on both genders of both, you know, men may be accepting women who,

who are financially independent and maybe more educated than them or things like that. And women being more accepting of men who are showing more vulnerability. Because I do think it's like in name, we do want that. But in practice, it can come off differently. Totally. I think especially in the beginning when you're still kind of like developing a chemistry and an attraction that there is still, we're still fighting our biology. And there is this biology of like, if there's,

a tiger at the door and you're going to cry in the corner, that doesn't make me feel safe. Right. So we are still fighting against that where the idea of like a man crying or being vulnerable, sometimes that almost like genetic thing that's like that I don't feel protected and I don't feel safe. In the beginning, I think especially when you're figuring out like, am I sexually attracted to this person? We are leaning on our biology, which is like.

Right. Does my body get aroused at the sight and the sound and the smell and the presence of this person? I need that first. And then we can work our way towards like, it's okay for you to cry. I want to know what's going on inside and I want to be supportive of you. But yeah, we are fighting our biology. And I like, I think I've said this before, like, I'm a feminist and I'm, you know, very much into women being equal. in all ways to men, but there are these biological wirings that we have to push against to get there. Right. And we can do it. We can push against it, but let's not pretend that sometimes it is hard to push against that. Yeah, I totally agree.

I think it's a, I'm sure we'll touch on this again later, but I think I wanted to get your thoughts on that. Yeah, interesting topic for sure. Yeah. And the biggest thing is, takeaway from me is like this idea of like you're saying men go when there's like some feeling like there's a catastrophic event to therapy as opposed to just like a general

feeling of I could be a better partner, friend, employee, whatever it is. Yes. All right. Well, let's get into our show. Our voicemail number is 646363-6294. Or if you want to email us, you can email us at oversharing at bedges.com. Or you can join one of Dr. Naomi's therapy groups and subscribe to our show. you get all the episodes ad free in a day early. How do they subscribe? Yes, you can find me at

Naomi Bernstein.com. I think I mentioned this before specifically. If you are available, work from home on Tuesday mornings, I have a group that has availability. We just met this morning and I was kind of like, this is nice, that this is nice and intimate and small. But the idea of group is to have kind of a, you know, like lots of varied perspective. So there's room and, in lots of my groups, but that one, there's especially some room I know is probably not an ideal time. But if you are available for that time or any other, and you want to join Naomi Bernstein.com. Love it. All right. Let's get into our show. I will read our first overshare.

Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, big fan of both you up and oversharing. Thank you for all you do. I'm a 29-year-old female. My husband and I have been together for five years, married for a year and a half. My issue is this. After a long conversation with my husband about how we're going to be a we want to announce our first pregnancy and to whom we found not everyone was respectful of our wishes. I'm currently 13 weeks pregnant with our first child. I've been extremely lucky and managed to get pregnant with no external interventions. I know several friends who have not been so lucky and tried multiple times before carrying a pregnancy to term. Because of this, it's usually advised to wait until your second trimester to tell too many people. Given this, my husband and I decided to tell

only our parents, siblings, and grandparents expressing our wishes to keep it a secret until my 15 to 16 week mark. They all celebrated with us and said they respected our wishes. My husband's sister-in-law, however, did not wait to share our news. With her own two pregnancies, she's had no complications. She announced her pregnancies to both sides of her and her husband's family early around one to two months of conceiving. This always scared me because who knows what could happen. We told her when I was at week 11, after pressure for my husband's parents to share, the news with them and made it very clear not to tell anyone no matter who it was until we let them know we were ready. At week 12, I attended her baby shower very clearly trying to hide my tiny bump. Her stepmom came up to me and congratulated me on my pregnancy. I was in shock and said thanks, but we aren't telling anyone yet. My sister-in-law's aunt then proceeded to congratulate my mother-in-law.

I absolutely do not know this aunt. I was surrounded by my sister-in-law's family and started wondering, Do they all know? I was so uncomfortable and upset. I know that she is very excited and has already started making custom clothes for our kids who will be cousins, but I've already explained I'm not buying or planning anything

with this pregnancy until at least three months have passed. I can't help but think this is my fault for sharing the news in the first place because you can't control what people do with information you give them. Any advice you have for me during this time

would be incredibly helpful. Signed, shouldn't I get to announce my pregnancy, Betch? Yeah. I get this. This is hard. I think the more people you tell, the better the chances are that it's going to get out there. But I validate like she's going there thinking nobody knows. And there's like several people that she's never even met before. Right. Approaching her about her pregnancy. I could see that being really annoying. Yeah. I'd see both sides. I think obviously this is she told her not to tell anyone. She told her stepmom at the very least, which is like annoying because it's just like she just didn't do what you asked her to do. I do think there's. I do think there's. There's a little bit. Maybe it's like a bad luck thing, I guess she's not saying because I'm like, logistically, did she want to be the one to tell her sister-in-law's stepmom?

Right. Like she wanted to be able to announce it to her. That was like important to her that she heard from her. Is that like, because that's just the way she ended the email being like, shouldn't I get to announce my pregnancy? Like, I don't know. Is that the issue? Is the issue that like she finds it to be like bad luck?

Is it that she wouldn't want those people to know? if it didn't work out, then someone would have to tell them. Right. And I guess like if that was the case, if it doesn't, something happens and, you know, there's a complication or something like that. Like I think there, I think I totally get there is this feeling of like, don't tell anyone anything. And like it's, it feels very like touchy and it feels very sensitive.

But like if the bad thing happens, people usually find out either way. when it's bad or good. I don't know. Yeah, I agree. It's probably like a little bit of a false sense of control, almost like if, if let's say you had a miscarriage or something bad happened, it's almost like, well, I could make it better by not having to untell people or not having. I think that's the hardest thing is like telling people.

And then while you're going through it, you have to. tell people that you had a miscarriage, which is like the last thing you probably feel like doing when you're in that grief process and you're doing that. So this, I could see what you're saying. This doesn't feel like that because it's not like you would then have to call the aunt and let her know that you had a miscarriage. Like that would go through the grapevine. She would find it out. I do think this feels like more of just you're not respecting my wishes. And maybe there is. I could be reaching, but maybe there is a little thing of like, we're bringing this new baby into the world. And a lot of times people do have a fear of like, you are now, you've created a human life with a whole other side of the family.

Like now this baby is like half theirs in some regards. And what kind of influence are they going to have? How much control am I going to have? So I think some of these things, like you said, if it, if it's more like close, to you and you don't you want to the big surprise or the announcement but this one feels like maybe it's touching on a nerve of like my wishes around my fear that my wishes around this baby and this pregnancy are not being respected and I will lose control over my child and how they're raised and you know what influence this whole other side of the family might have on them that's my right guess on

what might be going on here. I could see that too, especially if she hasn't like had any scares potentially. I mean, like, yeah, I get like, again, I get the sensitivity of it, of course. I think it definitely could be like a control thing like you're mentioning. I also could see, I guess, on the sister-in-law's part where like if her stepmom was asking how she was doing that she might just tell her not thinking she would tell her. Or, like that she would care. I guess that's like a betrayal in a way, but also like, I don't know. I could see, you know, if I were pregnant and I was like 12 weeks pregnant, I feel like if

you told your mother-in-law, I wouldn't be like shocked at that point. I don't know. I guess if I told you not to tell her specific, I guess if I told you not to tell her specifically until week 16, that would be annoying. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, I really think it's mostly that. Because it's, you know, I agree.

It's not like she was going to have a big announcement with these people that she's never met before. But it does feel like maybe it's hers. It's her news to tell. And it just feels like she wasn't. I think this is the issue that comes up a lot within laws is like, I have a boundary. It makes me feel like almost protected from you people. And you're not respecting it. So like there is a hard thing about getting married and integrating into someone else's life that makes you feel like I need boundaries so I don't feel like I'm being swallowed up by these people.

And then when I put boundaries up and they're not respected, I get scared. I'm scared that you're going to swallow me up and my baby too and my husband, which is I think why there's a lot of in-law issues. So what advice do you have? I mean, I think the cat's out of the bag. There's nothing you can do about it right now. But my advice to her is to really be introspective about, like you said, why is this bothering you? Like really what it is. Is it that I wanted to announce it?

Is it that I'm afraid that I'll have to tell them if something bad happens or I'll be embarrassed that it didn't work out or is it? I'm just feeling like my boundaries were crossed and that's scaring me. even though in this case, it seems like there was no negative ramifications from that boundary being crossed. But if it's still bothering you, what's the fear? I don't think there's anything she could do. Should she say something? I guess she could say, I heard from your aunt that she knew I was pregnant and I had asked you not to tell anybody. So it just makes me feel like I can't really trust you with things or I feel nervous or I want to be able to trust you. And I'm just curious how that went down.

I think that's a great thing to tell her if it's really bothering her. And she like, or you could just not tell her things going forward. Yeah. Like you know that she tells people things. That's sort of like a natural consequence of people telling things that you told them not to tell people is you just tell them less things. Yeah. It's a beautiful natural consequence.

And I think that that's great. Like you've lost that, you know, you've lost that privilege to know things about me that I don't want like a lot of people to know. So yeah, I agree. Either one of those, either noted, not going to do that in the future, or you could say something if it's still bothering you. But I think it is also good to be introspective. Like, what about this?

Because it'll probably show its face somewhere else. I agree. Later down the line. All right. Let's do our betchaicist. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I have an ethical dilemma about whether and how to tell my friends about my boyfriend's gun ownership. I met my boyfriend a little over a year ago through a shared hobby.

We instantly connected and learned. have a ton in common and shared values. Everything that is except guns. I always hated guns, have never been around them and thought no one should have them. Most of my friends feel the same way. My boyfriend, on the other hand, grew up in a rural area where everyone had guns. He also served in the military and is a current gun owner. The way he sees it, they are powerful and potentially dangerous tools that need to be handled with immense caution and proper training. This was almost a deal breaker for our relationship, but he asked me to learn a bit more about it and see his approach before deciding. After seeing how seriously he takes gun safety and taking a gun safety class myself,

I do feel less inherently scared of them than before. While I still feel similarly politically, way too many irresponsible and dangerous people have too easy access to guns. I feel more comfortable with him and his individual gun ownership. I'm struggling with whether and how much to tell a few of my friends. I talked this over with a few friends when we started dating and they feel similarly to me. Don't love guns, but feel okay with his approach to them. But I've been holding back from telling a few of my friends who I know feel strongly about the issue. Their perspective is so black and white that I know they'd instantly hate my boyfriend who they really like otherwise and it might even end our friendship. Is it okay to omit this detail or am I being dishonest in not sharing and

owning that I changed my mind on something my friends wouldn't like. We also just moved in together, so there are now guns in our shared house, in a safe and a locked closet and a room guest would never access. I know my friends would never set foot in our house if they knew, so am I obligated to disclose to them before they come over, or is ignorance bliss? One other consideration. My boyfriend really doesn't really broadcast his gun ownership, so some of his own friends don't even know. He sees this as a safety precaution. Hypothetically, the more people who know, the more chances a criminal could target you for gun theft, which is how criminals get access to guns, et cetera.

I find this excessive, but I think it shows the level of thought he puts into this. This feels like another reason not to tell my friends, but I still feel so dishonest not telling them something I know they'd have a huge issue with. I'd love to get your take on whether and how to share this information with my friends. Thanks, a gun shy. betch. I thought this was a very good, interesting email dilemma. Yeah, for sure. I don't think she has to tell them, but I also think she can. And, you know, I don't know. This is whenever we talk about anything like remotely political, I feel how this person feels. Like all the listeners who we have a good relationship with, who love the

show like if I say something that they feel is like a hint of something morally that feels different than them, their whole perspective of me after hearing hours and hours and hours of me speak and how I feel and how I conduct myself will be out the window. So it's just such a sticky morally judging people on these like big picture issues. I feel like it's just dangerous. It's, you know, the idea that her friends wouldn't be friends with her anymore because she fell in love with someone and is dating someone who is an extremely responsible gun owner, especially after he served in the military. So it's kind of like if he has his experiences, A, he knows how to use it. He's trained. B, maybe he feels protected after putting his life on the line.

And this makes him feel better or safer or helps with some type of. PTSD reaction that he feels safer, like being able to protect himself, that they would write him off and hate him and not be friends with her because of it seems extremely excessive to me. And if a friend is going to write you off that quickly after having many, many, many experiences with you that have nothing to do with this, I don't know. That just seems like maybe not someone that you want. in your life. I totally agree with you. I think you can be against, you can be for very strict gun control. You can be against owning a gun yourself. You can be any of those things. But I think

there's that becomes this culture again of like if you don't believe, if you don't like what I like, then you are evil and like I want absolutely nothing to do with you, which just creates further and further divides. I think like exactly like, I mean, I think all the constant text and the details she's given. It sounds like he's very safe. He's, you know, she was against it. He like asked her to be more open minded. You know, he pled his case on this. It sounds like he knows what he's doing. Also, the idea that your friends could be in any house and know the exact status of gun ownership in any house is kind of crazy. I don't think, I don't think she needs to volunteer this information. I think the question that comes up because I really don't think it's any of their business necessarily.

I think that if it came up naturally, that would be a different story, right? Yeah, yeah. You definitely don't want to lie. And I don't think you should have to hide. Like with your good friends, I don't think you should have to hide. You were thoughtful about this. You came to a conclusion that being with this person was worth learning about this thing and finding a way to feel safe.

it's almost like we are creating in some ways these like imaginary things to be afraid of. Like you're an adult, you're in a home with adults. The gun is not going to jump itself out of the safe and crawl its way into your bedroom and shoot you. So like the idea that you wouldn't feel safe being in a house with a locked gun is imaginary. That's like an imaginary fear that you're using. to morally judge this person. And I think some of it has to do with, you know, a misunderstanding of what it means when you take one side of a complex issue. If you don't take my side, then that I can size up your entire moral code based on that.

And I don't think that that's fair. Again, I talked a few weeks ago about how I am reading this book, The Righteous Mind. And he really talks, he does a good job of explaining like where this comes from. We survived by making these moral judgments and sizing people up. And not only that by saying like, okay, are you someone in my tribe that I can trust? And if you like guns and you have guns, maybe you're not someone in my tribe that I can trust. And so you take that information. And not only are you sizing people up, but then you also have to, like, and this has been for, you know,

thousands and thousands and thousands of years that we've developed in this way, where it's like, not only do I make a judgment of you, but I make a judgment of anyone who associates with you. Right. And then that's where all this fear of being, like, ostracized from the group and alone in the forest and kicked out of the cave. So it's almost like this listeners is feeling like, I'm going to be kicked out of the cave. just because I'm associating with someone who you have deemed to be immoral based on one single act that they've taken in their life. Right.

Yeah. And he hasn't heard anybody. Sort of like socially accepted. Yeah. Yes. That's socially accepted. I mean, I think we kind of talked about this to the, to an extent with the person with the, but who wanted to, who asked if she should still be friends with the woman

who wasn't going to vaccinate her children. I think there's, there's a boundary that you can. take if you hear that kind of thing where if it's truly a concern about your own safety where we said okay she should you know if she's afraid of her children potentially being unvaccinated she could not have her her unvaccinated children around her unvaccinated children or whatever it is her children around them here it's like if she told a friend this and a friend was like I truly do not just feel so uncomfortable being in in your house and so I'm not going to come to that but I'm still your friend that would be fine also if that's

That's a boundary that friend wanted to do. But to say, I'm not going to be your friend anymore. I'm not going to, I don't, I now discard you as a person in my life because of this association, I think is a totally different thing. And I think that like one is necessary maybe for your own feelings of safety and comfort. And the other one is really is really something that you're doing to sort of almost punish someone for their differing belief than you and sort of gets rid of all conversation around topics that are usually a little bit more complex than were led to believe.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. No, I agree. I think it when when when people feel like this, you are getting in touch with your less evolved self. Like you are having a tribal mentality as in like you are on this side of this issue.

You're out of the tribe. Right. Versus like he didn't hurt anyone. I could see if she decided. to date someone that like murdered somebody or went on a shooting spree and like her okay great this person is dangerous i don't want to be around them but i don't really think it's about that i think it's about you're not i can't trust your moral code or you're not on my team and therefore you are a threat and if i don't disown you or distance myself from you i might people might think that

that I like you or that I agree with you and then I might be kicked out of the cave. So I agree with you. I think if it was really about a safety issue, great, I don't feel safe. I don't want to come over. I don't think it's that. The gun's not going to jump out of the safe and start shooting people. That's an imaginary threat in that moment. It's about are you on my team or are you on the other team. Right. And I've equated your team with like, you want everyone to have a gun. You don't care about anyone's safety. You don't think it's a big deal. The problems around gun ownership and this. And like, all those things are like things that we say about the other side so that it can feel, again, you can feel more righteous and more like you're on the right path. And I think it really just squashes any sort of

interesting nuance conversation. Yeah. And that's what the, that's, That's what the problem is around all these things, whether it's like a vaccine issue or a gun control issue or an abortion issue. There are people on both sides of these because these are nuanced conversations. And so to just not even sit down and talk to somebody, like I think it would be amazing if they could sit down with her boyfriend and hear him out. Why he feels like he wants this, why it makes him feel safe, what his feelings are on it. Like that's a better way to get to know someone's moral code than to size them up based on like a book that they have on their nightstand, for example, in the vaccine situation.

I don't think she has to tell them, but I think it might be cool to tell them and kind of see, you know, if they're really going to cut off the friendship. Or I guess the fear is like, you're just going to look at me differently now. Or you're going to think that I have like all these values that are attached with people. that have guns. Now all of a sudden, I'm connected with an entire set of values that we haven't even talked about. Right. That's probably the bigger fear of like, oh, I'm not, now you think that I'm morally, you know, not as good as you anymore. And you know what? Maybe they, maybe they think that. I think like the idea of like, maybe they think that and fine, that's what they think. You know, you're the only, you're the one who knows who you are. You're the one who knows your morals. And I think,

kind of like breathing through that discomfort because you could because that's not a good reason to do things. It's like people potentially judging you. So it's kind of like, okay, worst case, even if they're they're fine with it seemingly they might judge me. Fine. They judge you. That's okay. Yeah. And look, if they start to back off or they say no to plans or they're like distancing themselves from you because of this, like then it just feels like I have to hide myself. and that's not a good way to feel in a relationship. So, yeah, they might not love this. This might not be their favorite thing about you or your boyfriend,

but you know your truth. You know how you feel about gun control and all the other issues. And yeah, you don't really need to justify yourself to other people. You haven't done anything wrong. So bring it on. I feel like we're going to get some heat for this, but I'll take it. We'll take it. You know, we could easily not do these questions, but we do because I think it is an important

discussion. All right. Let's do some intentions. Okay. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, huge fan of the pot. I've been a listener since day one. I'll jump right into it. I could use some help setting an intention for leaving one job and starting another.

After about seven years at my current company, I'm finally moving on to something else. I'm very emotionally tied to the company I've been working for. I've met some very close friends there and ultimately wish things could have worked out. I'm leaving because they're being. in a couple of instances where I felt undervalued and I feel like I deserve better. Ever since I gave my two weeks notice, I felt like I'm going through a breakup. I'm worried about making a mistake and have concerns that I may not like my new company as much. My new job will be for a much less glamorous company, but the pay and benefits are a huge

improvement. Plus, I'll get to be mostly remote, whereas my previous role had us going in five days a week. This will also be a title change and I'm sure I'll learn a lot and hopefully be able to use those skills for future jobs if I do end up unhappy. I wish I wasn't so emotionally caught up in this company to where I feel like I'm breaking up with it because I couldn't get them to change. But that's the story that's caught in my head. Could you help me set an intention to let go of what's behind and look forward to what's ahead and hopefully not wonder what if I stayed about my old job? Thanks for all you do, sincerely a self-doubting bet. Yeah, I think that I love that she's using the analogy of a breakup because I think that endings are hard and change is hard and staying there for two weeks

and seeing everybody else that's going to still be there and she's not going to be there. That's hard. And it's bringing up probably feelings of like nostalgia or sadness around like leaving and change. And sometimes what happens is the same thing with a breakup is like I'm uncomfortable with the ending. So I have this discomfort in my body. and then my mind says, well, do something about it. And what can you do?

You can get back together. You can send them a text. You can, you know, convince yourself that you should stay in this job when you've made an intentional decision to leave. So I think this is just another example of endings and change are hard. And then your mind wants to tell you to do something to make that hard feeling go away. And so you want to the temptation. is to kind of backpedal.

Yeah. I think that's totally right. I think there's this fear of like just like in a breakup or if you're doing the one with breaking up, it's like, will the next person be better or will it be worse and I'll regret and I made the wrong decision? I think there's just so much anxiety around not knowing. Yes. Especially when you make a big decision like leaving something like this and leaving something

that's really comfortable. And that's why a lot of people don't leave. long-term relationships, even if they're not that great or if they're not that happy because it's just super comfortable or they're scared of an alternative that's worse. They're scared of being alone and feeling lonely or they're scared of the next person not being as good in some ways as this person. So it is, it is hard. Yeah, totally. That's right. The unknown. You know, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. And so that voice is always going to kind of be in your head. But I think if you can do kind of that untethered soul thing where you're going to step behind your thoughts and recognize

like this is just the pull of fear. And if I don't learn to kind of recognize it, acknowledge it, breathe into it, relax, I'm always just going to be pulled by the fear of the unknown. And there's always, there's unknown around every single corner all the time. It's like a rare thing that you can find yourself in a place that is never going to change or there's no chance of unknown and you're never going to move forward and experience new things. So this is hard. But I think it's, oh, if she can look at it as just like, oh, this is just my mind and my body, like reacting to this fear of the unknown, she can quiet the voice that's like, well, maybe this is a mistake. Maybe you should change. And, you know, and exactly the same thing

for being in a relationship and deciding to leave, it's going to be hard or you would have done it already. Right. So that's part of the process of change is being able to tolerate that it's going to be hard without backpedaling and giving into the fear. Yeah. And I think to get great, you sometimes have to give up good or like fine. And that's, I think, the hardest part is to be like to take, It's like a risk and it's a you're having faith. But I think if you have faith in yourself, if you look inwardly and know that you're talented and you are deserving of a company that treats you the way you want to be treated, I don't know what the specifics are, but gives you what you want, that you deserve what you

want, that you can find that. I think if you kind of re-center yourself around like, I am capable and I am smart. And even if this job, next job isn't what I want, I will be able to find another one. just having like give a faith in yourself that you're going to be able to handle whatever comes at you even if it's even if you don't know you don't know if you're going to like the next job but if you don't you know yourself that you're capable of succeeding no matter what the next job is totally and that's the you know sometimes the best advice around like a breakup or something like this is it's not even just about finding the next best thing it's about proving to

yourself that you will be okay if you don't find it right away or if this job isn't the right thing to you, isn't the right, you know, that this next job isn't the right job for you or you're less happy. Okay, fine. What I need to believe in is that I can handle it and I can leave if I need to. So sometimes,

you know, when I work with patients that are trying to leave a relationship or a job that they feel really stuck in, it's like it's not even about the job. It's about your growth as a person. and can you use this experience to learn that you can leave when things don't feel right and you will be okay. You can be alone. You can be in a job that's not perfect for you right now and trust that you will not be alone forever

and you will not be in this job forever because I have the strength to leave something that's not working. That's, I think, one of the best things that you can learn from either this, quitting a job or ending a relationship that feels like, eh, okay? Right. There's so much power that you can gain by learning that, like, I can leave a relationship. It's like getting wings. It's like getting a superpower. Because if you avoid it or a job, if you avoid it, then you're always going to avoid it.

And you're more at risk of being stuck. So I think it's more about not that the next job is going to be better. although it might, but it's more about like, I'm learning that I can do scary hard things and I can handle it. Love that. Yeah. So I did write an intention for her, which is I will recognize the pull of fear, breathe, relax and allow it to pass.

I am moving forward with intention. So her mind has been made up that this is the right move for her. She just has to get her body on board. and she can do that. Breathe, relax. This is fear. This is not, you know, an intentional direction by backpedaling and going back to the job that she, I'm sure, very intentionally left.

She applied. She interviewed. She got something new. This wasn't something that just, you know, happened by itself. I love it. Okay. Good luck. All right.

Let's do some triggers. I'll read our first one. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I absolutely love oversharing. Thank you for everything you guys do. You strike a perfect balance of therapist and best friend advice, and I look forward to listening every week. Thank you.

Now for my triggered scenario, I have a one-year-old daughter with a genetic disease that caused her to spend the first few months of her life in the NICU right after birth. It was a rough start to life with a few surgeries, but she's doing well now. She will have to deal with this disease her whole life, though, mostly just by taking medicine and doing some therapies.

developmentally and socially she is a normal kid, so from the outside, people don't know she has this disease. Here's where my trigger part comes in. I have many friends who are pregnant right now, which is really fun to have more friends in our group becoming moms. One of my closest friends was talking about the gender of the baby recently. Her gender reveal party is coming up. When I asked whether she had a preference on a boy or a girl, she said, no, I don't have a preference, just a healthy baby. I know this is a super common phrase people use, but I was so triggered. She knows everything I went through with the birth of my daughter last year, and I don't think my baby can be classified as healthy.

I was triggered for a variety of reasons. First, I know I am probably grieving the loss of the idealized healthy child experience, and hearing her say she wants health over everything else feels on some level like it diminishes the value or wantedness of a child like mine. My protective instincts were on full blast. Of course, there's a sense of unfairness and envy, I feel, for someone who probably won't have to deal with what we've gone through. I know I just have a heightened awareness of health now,

and so much of our routine is now built around keeping my daughter healthy and giving her meds, so being healthy isn't an abstract wish for us. It's a constant and active concern. I know she didn't mean to offend, and I know I have complex emotions around this. It just felt like a subtle judgment, like a baby who isn't healthy isn't as desirable.

And that stung a bit. How triggered can I be? Sincerely an unhealthy baby mama. I will always think about this when I hear people, say that because I can definitely see how she feels like I didn't have a healthy baby and that that's not desired. Somehow the baby is like less desirable with them, you know, without having full good health status. So I get it. They didn't mean anything. It's the thing that people say. And what they're trying to say is like, boy or girl doesn't matter. Most important is that, you know,

the baby is okay. But I will think about it differently from now on when I hear people say that. I feel like it would have been more triggering for her to have a strong gender preference. Like to me, that would be almost more diminishing of what she's gone through to be like, you know, almost not to me it almost, again,

like I think everyone can interpret this differently. But to say I really, really hoping for a boy or I'm really, really hoping for a girl, to me, one, I mean, do people who then who have boys feel like their, their son, that their sons are diminished by someone really wanting a girl? Like, maybe. I guess that could happen sometimes, right? If someone really wants a certain gender, then someone could feel their own child is devalued in that way. So I don't, I don't know that there's like a right answer for that. I think that this listener herself would obviously prefer that her child be healthy. and I think that that's obviously what's triggering about it because it does feel, I think it probably speaks to her insecurities around that feeling or maybe feeling a bit guilt of guilt that she isn't grateful, you know, that she's okay, but that she has all these health

issues. I think there's probably a lot that goes on there. To me, I think it would be more insulting for someone to say, I'm absolutely dying for a boy and like, I want that so bad to me. be like, you're just going to be so lucky to just have a healthy baby that it's almost like a little insensitive that you care so much about the gender. You're like you're so flippant about the health. I don't know. I get that. Although she is the one that asked the question. So she, you know, she's kind of setting that, setting that up. It's almost like the offensive part comes in like, you can be offended if like someone has what you want and you can also be offended that if like what you have someone doesn't want.

Like those both feel like kind of offensive things. And I think this is like you said, just triggering because she's, you know, grieving. And it's okay to feel sad and to feel sad for your daughter and that she has to take these medications and do these therapies and that, you know, your parenting experience isn't what you thought it was. And that's hard and that's sad. and that's okay.

And that button was like pushed here. I don't think this person did anything wrong. Maybe she felt it was a little insensitive. That part I can see almost like if I knew I was talking to someone who didn't have a healthy baby. What would your answer? Like what would be the appropriate answer though, I guess to someone. I just, I just stop it. I don't, I don't have a preference.

I don't know. I don't really care. I don't have a preference. I guess that would have been the ideal answer. Yeah, like I wonder if you were, and maybe because her child's health issues are less visible, like, if you were talking to someone who had a child that was severely disabled or like in a wheelchair or on a feeding tube or, you know, needed help breathing and they were standing right there and someone said, do you want a boy or a girl? Would you be like, I just want a healthy child? Like, you probably wouldn't say it in that context. because it's like in your face, you're so aware. I think maybe what... That's a good point.

Her here was what we just said. But I think that just feels like there's a lack of awareness. I think that that makes sense. Yeah. She's still going to this. Especially I guess because she knows that she went through this, even though it's not necessarily extremely visible to anyone who sees it. I think that that makes more sense.

When you describe it like that, when it being like more obvious of a disability, it seems far less, it seems far more insensitive. But I think you've brought me around a little bit more on that. Yeah. And look, she put her in a spot, you know, like there's really not a great answer. Like you said, I think you're right. The answer, I really want a boy or I really want a girl isn't a great answer. She was probably just making conversation and didn't realize like she was setting her up, setting her friend up for failure. Maybe people should stop asking that question, I guess. Someone can let someone volunteer. Yeah. It is kind of very personal question too. You know, like I have had, I'm sure you've gotten this with your friends too. Like I definitely have patience that, you know, really want a girl and

they have a boy or really want a boy and they have a girl and they're like sad about it or disappointed and there's like shame around that, but you can't help how you feel. You had a, you envisioned whatever you think having a boy or a girl would bring, and it's not going to be that. And you are allowed to have your feelings, but there is a lot of shame around that, you know, for people that do feel like, okay, I really prefer a boy,

but I don't even want to tell anyone. Or I prefer a girl and I don't want to tell anyone because maybe I'll make them think I love my child less. And I guess now there's also the risk of offending the person that's asking potentially, which like I also see like where, again, She did kind of set her up for that. Maybe that's not a question you even want to ask.

Yeah. How would you rate it? And it would probably take a close friend to say to you, I really wanted a boy or I really hope it's a girl. Like I don't think that's a casual for a lot of people, not a casual conversation because it comes with some guilt feelings usually. I don't know. What would I rate it?

If I give it a high rating, it doesn't mean that I think that this person did anything wrong because I don't really think they did. because of what she's been through, yeah, I'll give it a six. Okay. I was going to say a four, but I see what you're saying. So I'll get, because she knows her, I guess, because it's the friend that knows her. I think if it was anyone else, I think most people think of saying that as the appropriate answer.

Like I do think that's sort of like the line that you say. Totally. If this was a stranger, it's like a two, you know. Yeah. And then also could be the kind of thing where she said it and then she thinks about it. all night that she said it to you and she feels weird about it, but she doesn't want to go back and say it to you because she feels like that's like re bringing it up. Like that's sort of the perfect thing where I like someone might, I might accidentally say something insensitive and then

think about it all day, but like not want to mention it, you know. Yes. I'm sure she did because she probably like had a look come over her face. I'm sure or the friend probably picked up on that she didn't love that answer. I would would not be surprised if that was the I'm sure she didn't mean to hurt your feelings. It was just a flew out of her mouth. And yeah, but I do feel for you that is, it's a hard spot. And it's like you feel different. You just feel like your parenting experience is not the parenting experience that a lot of other people are having.

In addition to what you're going through, what your child has to go through. So I feel for you. I think you're allowed to be triggered around this type of thing. It is clearly, you know, the harder of the options for how you could start off your motherhood journey. So, yeah, I will forever think of you when I hear that exchange. So thanks for bringing it to your attention. And I think I'm not going to ask that question anymore.

Let's do one more. You want to read this one? Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I reconnected with an old friend after moving back to my home city. We hung out a time or two and then I got a last minute text inviting me to a concert with her for the next night. as she had an extra ticket. I was familiar with the artist, but wasn't a fan, but decided to go with her so she wouldn't have to go alone. The show turned out to be really enjoyable. As we were saying

goodbye, she asked me to Venmo her $100 for the ticket. In my shock, I agreed in the moment, but I left feeling duped. I thought she was inviting me as her guest, and I was doing something thoughtful by going with her. There was no talk of money before or during the event. I just sent the money but feel icky about pursuing the friendship. How trigger can I be signed concerned concert goer? This one's like, I think it's like a miscommunication issue. I think the friend, I think the right thing to do what would be the friend say, do you want to go to this concert with me?

I have an extra ticket. It's like $100 each. If you want to go, let me know. And the right thing for the listener to do would have been to say when presented with the ticket, oh, how much is it before agreeing? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. If you invite someone to, you see, I think this is like a living if you say you have an extra ticket, does that imply, is the term I have an extra ticket imply that the person is paying for you? I don't, I think that's where the, the miscommunication happens.

In my opinion, if your ass is in the seat, you should offer to pay for your ticket. Fair. Yeah. Like I don't think that she obviously paid for the ticket. she should probably, you know, at least, you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with her asking, yes, could this have been clearer beforehand? But now you live and you learn. Next time someone says, I have an extra ticket, you could say, how much is it? You know, it's almost like if this was Taylor Swift and someone said, I have an extra ticket, you'd know, like, I'm supposed to pay you for it. Or at least offer. You know, like, no. No one's going to give me a free, right, or at least offer.

No one's just going to give me a free Taylor Swift ticket or whoever is a big artist that you would be like, these aren't going away for free because it was like a lesser known artist that she didn't really like. I think that's the only reason why she felt like it would even be an option that she would get this ticket for free or that the alternative was gone. And I don't know how like it was phrased. I guess like if the phrasing of the friend asking her was like, I have this extra ticket.

Like, I really want to go to this concert, but I have no one to, but like no one will go with me. I really want to go though. Will you go? Like, I think that may be like, be a little bit more annoying for her to do that. But yeah, I think either way,

she should still have offered. Yeah. If I had to decide, I get it. There was miscommunication in the future. I agree. You should say, like what you said, how much is the ticket? And if she said, no, no problem, it's on me.

Yeah. Great. Problem solved. Or it's $100. Right. There you go. It's harder to back out, I guess, after. So you live in a lawyer.

I get why she didn't want to do that, though, because it is awkward to be like, how much is the ticket? $100. Like, oh, I'm, eh, I'm going to pass. Like. I don't know. I think that's fine. Yeah, I guess you could say like, I don't really, I don't really like that band that much. Yeah.

Yeah. I think the friend could come back and say, don't worry about it. I'll, I'll tell you. If it's about the money, I'll pay for it. That's like a. communication clear up front. No, this concert's not worth $100 to me. I think that's okay that the concert's not worth $100 to her. I think this is one where you eat it and you learn and make time ask the friend.

Yeah, do you think the friend had the obligation to say like if you had an extra ticket and you wanted money for it, you wanted to go with a friend but you didn't want to pay for them? I do think it is kind of your obligation to also say, I have an extra ticket. It's this price. Would you want to go with me? Yeah. I do think like it is a little triggering because like you could, you should say something. Because like what if the ticket was like $2,000?

Right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I do agree. I agree with that. I'm kind of like I was, I was convicted in the beginning that like you go to the

concert, you pay for yourself. Like, she's not taking you out on the date. But I do, now that you say it, if she said the ticket was $300 or $500, that would change things, you know? Even $100 is like not a cheap ticket. It's like it was a $30 ticket. I think whenever I invite someone. I might be being talked about of this. Whenever I invite someone to like, sometimes Mike and I will like buy four concert tickets to a concert we want to go to and then invite another couple. And when we do that, we'll always like, if I'm inviting someone, I'll be like, we got more tickets to this, they're whatever each. Like, if you're, if you guys want to come, let me know. I do think that's like the move. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I'm being convinced maybe I'm changing my mind in real time here that I think

it probably was on the friend to let her know ahead of time how much the ticket was before. she made the decision if she wanted to go. It's a tough one. I'm going to rate it in the middle because I kind of see both sides. I think the friend should have mentioned it, but I also think if you say yes and you attend something, you should expect to be shocked that she was that she was asked to pay. But it is, yeah, it is poor form to not mention the price. I would give it like a three and a half.

I'll agree with that. It's not shocking. It's maybe a little annoying and could have been. done differently, but I definitely don't think this is like, and then she talks about ending the friendship. That's tricky. I mean, maybe she would, like, she's going to end the friendship. Yeah, that seems excessive. I think if, I think if you're ending the friendship over that, you weren't really that interested in being her friend anyway. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Maybe could have been done differently. Definitely not shocking. Definitely not friendship ending. And the more you know,

Now you know. And for all you listeners out there, if anybody gets you, says they have an extra ticket, you should respond with, cool. How much is it? Agreed. You know, or what do I owe you for the ticket or whatever? I agree. Logistics.

Oh, tough one. This is a tough one. I got my mind change. We're always challenging ourselves on this show, you know. Yeah. Still not super triggering, but I did start off with like, you go. you pay. We did it. We'll be back next week. That's our time. Great work today.