Oversharing - Is My Husband Emotionally Ready To Buy A House With Me?

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Jordana and Dr. Naomi kick things off by catching up about Naomi’s visit with Jordana’s twins and the humbling reality that babies don’t always warm up to eager aunts right away. They discuss the emotional pull of reconnecting with old friends, whether New York is calling Naomi back, and Jordana’s surprisingly complicated reaction to the Knicks’ championship win. Then they jump into listener complaints, starting with house-hunting tensions between newlyweds. A Betchesist shares her very real experience of gender disappointment during pregnancy. We set an intention this week that the feeling arising from grief is not always a call to action. Lastly, our brave Triggered listener seeks solace from her mother-in-law, whose wrath is so strong that the baby won’t even look at her. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. A quick note before. we get into the episode. Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordan, Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How is it going? It was so nice to see you last week. You came and stayed. I had missed you guys. You got to meet the girls. How was it from your eyes?

How was the rest of your trip? So many things. I had so many thoughts that I wanted to share with you. We skipped a recording last week. So I was compiling all of my thoughts. My first of which is this experience that I've had many times as an aunt that I had with your kids, that I've had with all most of my nieces and nephews. I live far from most of them.

So there's this anticipatory like I cannot wait to meet you. I want to succush you. I want to squeeze you. I'm so excited. And most of the time, by the time I meet them, they're not just these newborn little puddles of mush. And they actually have their own feelings about being held by a relative stranger. And so it's an interesting experience. And I'm sure many of our listeners can relate where you are so excited to get your hands on this baby.

and they're like not about it. Like, you know, Lucy was kind of screaming and like I would hold them and they weren't really feeling it. And you have to just kind of enjoy them a little bit from a distance for a while until they can Well, they get to know you. Yeah. To know you and get comfortable. And I've had this experience with most of my nieces and nephews when they're babies.

It's like you can't just jump. right in. Unless they're like literally like two weeks old or something. When they're two weeks old, they're passed around like, you know, like a sack of potatoes. They don't really know the difference. Yeah. No, it's weird because they are at the age where they have like preferences and they have people they recognize and they have people they don't. And I feel bad. It's funny. Like I also have my own feeling of like when people meet them and I kind of like want them to perform a certain way or to be a certain way even though they're like babies. So, you know, I wanted it to go. in a different, I mean, they came around, but like it's, yeah, it was an interesting, I think, thing

to see whenever they meet anyone knew. Yes. And I know there, and it is nice that we stayed with you. That's what I also like is that, and I noticed this too with babies around that age. If we would have just met up for dinner and went home, it wouldn't have worked. Like they kind of just need your presence there for like a couple of days. And then by day two, I was able to hold them and able to like, get them to laugh and like, you know, have more physical contact. At first, it's like, okay, she wants to be in the stroller and she will laugh and they will be great as long as like they're in their little happy place in their stroller or like in their little spot and that was great.

But it is interesting where it's like it's not about me. And just because I want to hold her, them, doesn't mean that that's how it's going to go. So I had to be patient and work my way in. So that was interesting, which I'm noticing is the dynamic in a certain window with certain babies. It's funny. Like, you think about a lot of the things you give up for having kids or the negative sides of it or like the things that are an ideal. And you never like, when I think of all like the positive things that I was excited for, they were a little bit, even for myself as their mother. Like I'm like, and we're going to go on a walk every day.

we're going to go like, I'm going to take them in the pool. And like, then the reality is like, okay, they're like, you know, they're like 10 minutes into the walk and then one of them is like screaming because she like is like over it. Or, you know, I'm taking them in the pool and one of them just like doesn't like the water. It's kind of like you have your own like, it's because it's more about you. It's more about me or you. You know what I mean? Like this is how I wanted it to be. Like this is my like dreamy like mental montage of how being a mom was going to be. Like picnics outside and we're going to go swimming and we're going to go on these walks. And it's like they are not, they're on the trajectory. Like I know I envision it a certain way where I'm like, I'm going to show up

to the house. I'm going to scoop them right up. And I'm going to be like, you know, we're going to have our bonding. And it's just going to start the second I walk in the door. But so I'm beginning to curtail my expectations when it comes to babies of a certain age, which is fine. I think it's just universal. That's how it goes. And it just takes a little bit of time. But they are so cute and just delicious. And there's two. It just, it was, it was really awesome. It was just so nice to get to spend time. So overall, the chip was great. But the other takeaway, which was just an interesting, I always, whenever I go on vacation, I come back with huge reflections. Because one, I'm not working. I have all this time to kind of reflect and think. And I,

I came back and usually, you know, we spoke afterwards and I was like, I had this epiphany and you're like, okay, something about nature, something about, you know. Getting unplugged or whatever. Yeah. It is similar in the sense of like, I leave my environment and I have new experiences and kind of doing that thing where I observe myself having these cravings, having these seekings when I have new experiences where I have this very heart open moment, whether it's a heart open as I'm looking at this expansive, you know, natural environment or I'm smelling the smells of nature. But on this trip, coming back to New York from Texas, I had these very heart open experiences because I I visited with lots of old friends.

So we came to New York, saw you guys, friends and family. We saw so many family members at your house. You hosted, saw all of our family. I saw so many old friends from college. We went to Boston after we left your house. I saw so many.

We walked around Brandeis, you know, with my old college friends and just reminisce and had so many of these very heart-open hugely connected experiences with my old long-term, long-time friendships, which I think most of our listeners can relate to like, there's really nothing like that. There's no, the oftentimes Yeah, the friends you make later in life just can't compare to those moments where, like, I just think back to each hug that I had with each one. of these people that I was seeing for the first time in years, it's like this expansive feeling.

It's not so dissimilar from that expansive feeling that you have sitting and watching a sunset or being in a forest or like that moment in nature. It's a very similar heart open feeling. And then what follows, and I am observing myself having this moment, what follows is that felt great. how do I get more of it? And usually I come out of that with like, I need to move to the middle of nowhere. I watched myself have this feeling of how do I get closer to my old friends?

Maybe we need to move back to the East Coast. Maybe we need to come back closer to New York. Maybe I need to, you know, spend more. It's this very quick, that felt good. I need more. More. Yeah. And it can happen with,

shopping. It can happen with, I don't know, going to a good concert. Yes, exactly. I'm a fun night out. Yeah. Totally, which is why people are like, follow a band around the country or it can happen with I sold something on eBay that like I made a lot of money and now I'm going to go through my closet, sell all my stuff on Pashmark or, you know. It's like a little high. Yeah. Yeah. Some are healthier than others. Some, you know, like, but I noticed myself and, and Jeff had, this too. He was more, like, I think he feels very at home in the New York culture. Like, he got very, his high was, I feel so myself in New York. Right. I feel seen. I feel seen. I feel like I belong. So we both kind of came home with this like, oh, that felt so good. I didn't go so far as like we should

move back to New York, but it definitely felt like, how do we get more of that? And then I stop and I pause and I'm like, I'm seeking. This is me being like, that felt good. How do I get more? Instead of like, that felt good. It's okay that that felt good and now it's gone. I can handle that. Instead of needing to do the thing where I'm like just giving into the that felt good,

I need more. Where I guess is the line though of like, shouldn't you do more things that make you feel good, make you feel seen? Like maybe it's like maybe it's not like we need to move back to New York, but maybe it's like, I need to plan. a yearly girl's trip with my old friends or I need to, you know, come back more often. Like that's, you know what I mean? Like, where is the, where's the line of like, because I think it is okay to be inspired by

something or kind of like feel connected and then go with that. Do something. Do something about it. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And I think that's where we fall, which is where we're not very like structured, ritualistic type people, but we have made this ritual of like coming to New York every single summer. I think because of

this, we have created that ritual. But I think the other consideration is it felt really great. Each of those hugs that I had with each of those friends that felt so connected and so loving was because it had been years. It wouldn't be the same. It wouldn't be the same if we were meeting every week. for lunch. Yeah. So maybe like something in between meeting every week for lunch and meeting every two years. Yeah, exactly. Could be like, you know, where the sweet spot in that lies. Exactly. So this leads me into my next thing that I wanted to talk about, which was Olivia Rodriguez's new album. Okay. I haven't listened. So good. I love it. Oh, wow. Okay. I've got to listen to it a couple time through. You'll have to text me your favorite songs. Oh, I'm going to text you. The Cure is really good.

Text. I'm not going to remember. Okay. I'll text it to you. Those of you who haven't listened yet, start with that one. It's really, really good. So our little middle ground, I think, is that we might try to come back to New York because she is skipping Texas. I don't know if that's on purpose. Burn. Burn. Yeah, she's skipping Texas. So we might try to come back to New York to see her. It's not until February. I She's coming to Brooklyn. Okay. What is the name for an Olivia Rodriguez fan, like the Swifty of Olivier de Riga? That's a good question.

Am I that? I think I am that, whatever it is. Seems like it. Yeah. I'm like a 15-year-old girl with my music taste, but. You have like tween girls. Yeah. So I think it makes sense that you would be.

It's like embedded into my. Right. You're allowed. Yeah. You have like a connection. Livies. Livies. Livies.

Levy's, says Will. Okay. Livy's. I think I'm officially a Livy. I mean, it's great. You have to get some merch. I think my kids would cringe if I were. It's for them.

It's not for me. I can quietly listen in my own time, but I can't be too overt about it. I love it. I'm excited to see you then. Yeah, so we might see you in February then. Okay. Or sooner.

We have a group trip maybe coming up. We'll see. Can we get the girls, those big headphones and take them to the concert with those big baby headphones? I don't think you'd want to be around them. at that hour of the night. Once it hits like 5.30,

they are like moody Tuesday. Like not, right. Leave them home. Yeah, I think we can leave them home. So the next one, the NBA championships, as you know. And I was wondering what your psychological take was on my reaction to it, which was like, you know, at first I was like, this is so nice. Everyone's so excited.

Everyone in New York is in such a good mood. There's like this camaraderie. There's like this, everyone who's like in this. city or this area where it kind of like feels like, you know, they get off on like their angstiness or like their like abrasiveness is like softening and being so excited. There was another part of me when they want. And I think it was exciting like leading up to the games. And then something about the fact that when they actually won, there was a part of me that was like, can we rain it in a little? Okay. We're not on the team. Like why are we so excited? Like,

like curb your enthusiasm kind of thing where I was. like it's, I don't know, it's like it's not so special or like how excited people were was like turning me off. Okay. And I think that's a me thing. I don't think it's about like, I don't think that they're wrong. Yeah, you're the outlier. Yeah. I'm there's something wrong with me. And I was wondering what you think there is. Yeah. Let's, let's unpack. But only because most people love the opportunity to jump on a party boat. That's just like floating right. by your neighborhood and you can hop right on. Maybe because you didn't actually watch any of the games.

I watched the last game. The entire thing or just a little bit. I mean, I was on my phone for most of it until the end. Okay. So you personally, I know you and like you're a very real person. So maybe you personally feel a little phony going so hard on it because like, you know you really don't care that much. You only watched a little bit of the last game partially,

mostly on your phone. I think that's part of it. Yeah. And I think a part of me is like a little jealous that I can't. I'm not like a like dancing in the street. Like I never get that excited about anything. Yeah. And I think I'm jealous.

I think part of it is like I'm jealous. So that's why I'm like hating. I'm like a little like I want to be so irrationally enthused by. something. And then I'm like, beat him. I'm like, I didn't even cry when my daughters were born. Like, I'm like, I didn't crying about this thing that has nothing to do with you. I didn't cry in my wedding day. And I think I'm kind of like, I wish I was able to like get happier when like, I think happy things happen. Yeah. Like maybe it's like a brain body connection thing. Yeah. And I was like, I don't know, I was like irritated that everyone was so happy. Perhaps reminds you of like,

your own little bit of like constricted affect. I think so. Yeah. I think and I may feel I feel bad about it. I think it like makes me feel worse about it that I like can't get there over anything. Yeah. I don't know. I'm trying to like get there. I don't. You know, my prescription for you would be like one of EMDR therapy. No, I wasn't going to say EMDR, although that that is helpful. I was going to say like going to one of these wild, like, dance things sober. Well, that's a good point. Like, the only time I think I can get, like, really loose is when I'm drinking. Like, I went to a yoga retreat once and they had, which you would probably never do.

It's completely sober. And they play this, like, kind of, like, tribal drumming music. And everyone just, like, goes in this room and a big, like, gymnasium. type room and you just like wildly like move your body like unbridled just like moving and emoting and just like what you would kind of do at a dance club but like sober and just like not just like emoting and I think that would be my you could start small maybe I'll start a little small Strangers in a yoga retreat, sober. This sounds, yeah, this sounds.

Okay, so maybe what you could start with, my little prescription for you is to just, like, be by yourself in a room, play some music by yourself, sober, and dance. You know, you know what? Going off of that, I think I'm going to try that around my girls. Okay. Because that, I think, is like also another place where it's like, I want to be silly. Yeah. Like for them.

Like I think I want to like, because that's like all kids. Like kids don't have that constrictive. You know, like I look at like them laughing and I'm like, I'm not like, what are you laughing at? It's not even funny. Like that's not what I'm thinking. I'm thinking like, oh, like they're just like so moved by like the simplest little things.

Maybe I'll just, I'll like try to, you know, it's like that's a great opportunity to be silly without seeming like feeling like you're an idiot. Because there's no other adult, like, fully conscious human around. Right, where you're like dancing for your babies or something. Play some silly music and just dance and move your body with no one else around but them. That's my prescription for you.

I love it. That'll be my foray. Yeah. And just like start to just get comfortable emoting. We've talked, I think this is coming up for you, this idea of like having big emotions. There's a little shame around that. We talked about that a couple of sessions ago. There we go.

We did. Yeah. No, we did. So, all right. We're tapping into something here. All right. More on that in the coming weeks. I'll let you know how that goes.

But let's get into some advice for the listeners. Let's do it. I'll read our first overshare. Before we do that, if you have a voicemail, you can leave us a voicemail at 646363, 6294. Or you can email us at oversharing. As always, if you want to subscribe to this podcast, We love our subscriber community. You get two bonus episodes a month and you get all the episodes ad free and a day early.

Or you can join one of Dr. Naomi's therapy groups. How do they do that? Come find us at Naomi Bernstein.com. We have rolling admission. If you want to find more of that connection that I was describing, if you're feeling lonely or just craving support, we do all these sorts of challenges. Yeah, come find us, Naomi Bernstein.com. Also, if you are looking for an individual therapist or a couples therapist, I do have some

openings there too. So Naomi Bernstein.com, you can fill out an intake form there and see if we might be a good match for each other. So yeah, come find me. All right, let's do this. I will read our first overshare. Durdana and Dr. Naomi, I could use your advice. My husband and I got married in April this year. We currently live in a condo downtown in a major city and have started the process of looking for a house in the suburbs. We aren't in a huge rush, so I was looking forward to starting the process and having some fun on Zillow,

going to open houses, etc. That's always how it starts. Gateway drug. Yes. Unfortunately, the process has become a point of contention in our relationship. We live in an area where the housing market is highly competitive and expensive,

so I've made peace with the fact that we may not be able to find a house in our budget that checks every single one of our boxes. For example, maybe it's in a good neighborhood and has a renovated kitchen, but no garage. When we tore a house, I'm always pretty positive and can envision changes we could make to make it work for us. My husband, on the other hand, is extremely picky. He's always quick to decide he doesn't like a house.

And despite insisting that he knows we may have to compromise on some things, it's starting to feel like he can't actually act on that. He thinks I just like every house we look at. The difference in our attitudes and his general pickiness is causing some resentment going both ways. For me, it brings up the fact that I am the one that is savings and a higher salary, so I will be covering the entire down payment. He could never have bought any of the houses we were looking at on his own. How do we get back to enjoying this process and being newlyweds? Please help. What do you think? Yeah, it does sound like that sentence in there around how she's financing the down payment

is increasing her sense of irritability around his strong opinions. And I think it's probably feels icky to her both ways. It's like one to even have the thought and like feel a little resusc. sinful for it and then also to like feel like he doesn't have a right to say anything because of that even if she, you know, maybe she doesn't think she believes that, but maybe she does believe that in some sense. And I think that's tough. And I think a lot of, that's probably very relatable to a lot of marriages said or unsaid. Yeah. And I'm glad you're saying it because I think when you don't admit that you're having these negative feelings, then it just kind of seeps out in like,

this low level irritation, so I'm glad you're aware. The finances is part of what's irking you here. I think the other part that's bothering her is he's just like yucking her yum, which is kind of annoying. Like she went into this like, I want to be excited and this is fun and I could see this and I could, I've been on the other side of this where you see something and you're like, oh, wow, wouldn't this be great? And someone's like, well, this point out this negative thing or I point out that negative thing. And once fine, twice fine, when it feels like that's happening every time you look at a house, after a while it just feels like you're kind of ruining the joy of this, which is I think where

she's at, which I could see why that's starting to get annoying. And then once you're starting to get annoyed, then on top of it, this feeling of, and you're not even contributing to the down payment, like you should just be happy kind of to be moving into any of these houses. Right. You should just be happy to be here. Right, which is not something that feels like right in a marriage. Well, I do think she needs to change the way she thinks about the money situation because

they're married. It's not like they just started dating. I could see if I just started dating someone and like I think she needs to remove that from the equation because if you're going to be a part of being married as being a team and I think if the roles were reversed and he was contributing more, I think that like you would think it was odd for him to not say that you could have a say and looking for these things. And it's a hard mindset. I think it is like that's sort of an underrated thing about marriage that no one really like talks about or prepares you for is this idea that like especially if you're single into your 30s or your 40s even or later this idea that you're automatically supposed to start thinking you know as a team

as opposed to like as to what you're bringing to the table as opposed to what you're doing like it is an entire mindset shift especially when you're married. And so I don't think it's it comes on day one of being married where you're like. like, okay, now it's like everything is equal and like we're all just working towards the same thing. I think that does take a little bit of time. But I don't think that thought about her money and the housing thing should be a part of the equation. Yeah. Well, the first step is awareness, right? She's aware that she has this thought. I think she doesn't love that she has it, but denying that it's there isn't going to help. So great. You're aware that you have it. You're sharing it with us. It's playing into it.

I think what will help is if you can share the rest of this, which is I was looking forward to being excited about this process. I think the same thing can happen with a wedding sometimes too, where you're like, I was excited about this wedding process and now it just feels like it's getting stressful because someone's so particular or nitpicky or anxious. What it sounds like is he's having a lot of anxiety about picking. the right place and his anxiety is like ruining the fun for her. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like he has unrealistic expectations about what they're going to find in this market with the amount of money

they have. So I think they just need to have an honest conversation about that. But it sounds like he's saying like big in reality, like he's saying logically what she says in the email, I know we're not going to have everything. But then boots on the. ground when they go to the house, he's focusing on what's not there. And that's the part. Like I think he'll be like, I know we can't get everything, but he's not able to open his mind to say, like, I'm really okay with not getting everything. Well, maybe he wants to wait until they have a larger budget to get more of what he wants. Maybe he doesn't feel like he can say that because she's so excited about looking for a house. And so instead he's like trying to stop her from getting all the

houses that she wants instead of saying what he really thinks, which is like, I would rather wait until we have a larger budget and can get more of the things on our list than buy a house now and kind of have to sacrifice for this. Like they need to have like a realistic conversation about what's out there, the budget that they're getting and their expectations given that budget. And like if they even want to do this, like maybe he doesn't really want to do this. Yeah. Or maybe she's talking about like her experience of being. being the only person contributing. Maybe that's effect.

I always say real estate is very emotional, which is why it's an interesting investment place to invest your money, right? Because if you can strike in certain areas where people are making emotional decisions, like I think for him, his rel-like, this might be avoidance. His anxiety, his pointing out the negative might be his way of avoiding doing this until he financially can contribute. So he might be pointing out the negative because like you're saying, maybe he wants to wait until he can contribute something more financially and then they can

get exactly what they want. So subconsciously even he might be saying, oh, well, I don't like this. I don't like that. I don't like the other thing because what he really wants to say is I don't feel comfortable moving forward until I can contribute. financially to this. It doesn't make me feel good. He might be just conflicted. He doesn't really want to say that because maybe he does want to move, but he's kind of subconsciously feeling that way or his subconscious is coming out by just pointing out the negatives because he kind of wishes

that he was in a place where he could make up potentially that extra difference that would get them the garage or the brand new kitchen or whatever it is. Yeah. I think this is worth like ironing out before you do commit to a house. Because I think that like it sounds like there's like many financial things unsaid. Yes. In the relationship that it would be good to just like work through. Like you know,

you could say how you feel about contributing. If that's something you really feel like about you contributing more, if there's some sort of resentment underlying that. Like don't wait until the like your mortgage payments. I think like talk about like the way that you see your finances going over the rest of your relationship. Talk about like what you. feel like is fair, what you feel like what your expectations are of each other, what your,

feelings around money are. I think having it to talk about like what your feelings around finances and spending and money is like such an important thing to process, especially when you're doing it with someone else who might have totally different feelings about money and spending and saving and how expectations about what their partner brings to the table financially. Yes. And I think this is a perfect, this. When you go to see a house, this is a perfect projection board for all of these unspoken insecurities or resentments, depending on who we're asking, to come out onto. You know, I don't like this or her being like, I love this or whatever it is.

This, you know, this listing is the perfect place for that to come out. So I do agree. I think she should talk to him. How do you feel about the. that you're not able to contribute to the down payment right now. Like, are you feeling insecure about that? Let's, that's a very vulnerable share. I don't blame him for not just coming out with that.

If that, if he is having insecurities about that, that's a tough thing to say to somebody that you want to, you know, that you're sleeping with and you want them to find you sexy and, you know, attractive. It's hard to say, I feel really insecure that I can't contribute. especially for men. Yeah, especially for men. So that might be underlying why he's nitpicking and why he's maybe stalling a little bit or doing these behaviors that are irritating you and then making you even more annoyed. I think she would be less resentful if he was kind of like, just like, oh my God, this is so amazing that you, that we slash you have the money for this down payment. I'm so thankful. Let's do it. These all. look great, yay, but I don't think he can do that because he's struggling with probably some insecurity around not contributing. And maybe he feels that you also have some insecurity about

him not contributing also, which it sounds like she does. And maybe he can feel that. So I think this would be great to get through. I know that wasn't like your solution of your right, he's right. But like, give us an update. Yeah, let's know how that goes. This is a tough one. But you will be closer and stronger. And stronger. a couple if you can really talk this through in a calm and loving way. Yes, I agree. Staples Preferred Business Membership, built for busy business owners, because you've got bigger things to think about.

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All right, well, let's do a betchesist. Do you want to read this one? Hey, Dr. Dana and Dr. Naomi. I have a 20-month-old son and I'm currently 13 weeks pregnant. We tried for almost a year for this baby and were overjoyed when we finally did conceive. That has led to more anxiety this time around. In addition to knowing four people personally who have all lost a baby post-20 weeks. weeks pregnant in the last year. That being said, I kept saying I would be happy with a boy or a girl

and that it didn't matter. I would be very happy with our first girl who I'd name after my late grandmother and giving my in-laws their first granddaughter. I also thought I'd be equally happy with a brother for my son that would be only two years apart in age. On top of that, I wouldn't have to buy anything new. I'm also very comfortable with boys and feel confident in the knowledge I've gained so far in raising a son. So yesterday, I got an email that my blood work results were in, which would include gender. Once the possibility of actually knowing came, I started to feel differently. I immediately got my hopes up for a girl.

And in just a few hours, I waited to be with my husband so we could read the results together, I really started to have a preference and overthink the whole situation. We opened the results in red, consistent with male. My first thought was, aw, and I teared up. I was actually really comforted and happy knowing our next. baby would be a boy. My husband, however, was immediately disappointed, made a noise and sighed. In his ideal world, he'd have three girls. I don't know if it was his reaction or the feelings I had leading up to reading the results, but now I'm not as excited as I thought I'd be.

I'm worrying more and more than I'll never get to use my grandmother's name or even have a daughter at all. On the other hand, I don't think I was lying to myself and genuinely I'm excited for my son to have a brother, but my feelings aren't congruent anymore. do you two feel about gender disappointment? I feel ashamed for being upset when I know so many people struggle with infertility, but I can't get myself to tell friends and family that we're having another boy. I'm also fearful that the news wouldn't be as exciting as saying we're having our first girl. Do either of you have an intention that can improve my mood surrounding sharing the news and give me back that sense of excitement about being a mom of two boys? I really want to be excited because

the current shame and disappointment I feel doesn't feel great. Thanks in advance, a true boy mom. I think gender disappointment is like one of those things that a lot of people feel, but it feels really icky. Yeah. It feels like kind of gross. So people either usually don't talk about it. Because it's also like it kind of feels like it can translate into like not being excited

for your child or being upset that, you know, not just being grateful to have a healthy child. It can feel like this shameful feeling. of like, my baby will know that I felt this way and will feel like, if I speak this out loud, then my baby will somehow know and feel like I didn't love them or like that they weren't wanted or I didn't love them for who they were or, you know, there's a lot. Or enough, yeah. Or I wasn't like as excited about them or something. Yeah. And this comes up for patients that like didn't want to be pregnant at all. And then, you know, like,

someone who gets accidentally pregnant and they don't even know if they want to keep the baby. And then they decide to keep the baby. And then they're like, feel guilty that they ever thought of not having the baby, you know. It's on a different level. Oh, I thought you were saying they feel gender disappointment. No, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. No, I'm saying like, you know, they've even considered not having the baby. Even considered not having the baby. And then they're like, oh my God, how did I ever think that I didn't, like, there's almost this feeling of like, what if they found out that I didn't really want them or that, you know, then they're going to feel, like your love for your baby comes in how you are with your baby when your baby is born or like

that you don't have to worry that it means you don't love them or that you've rejected them. It's normal to have feelings of I had a hope or a dream or a fantasy of what this was going to look like. and now it's just going to look different. Yeah. I mean, I just talked about that in the beginning of this episode, like not in terms of the gender, but in terms of like my vision for how they would be. Like it wasn't a vision for how their gender would be,

but it was a vision for how like taking them on daily walks would be. And they're not living up to that. You know what I mean? Like does it mean I don't love them or they're not like, no, it's like there's certain things that you had visioned in your head might go a certain way. And like, yeah, it's kind of, it feels icky to be like,

I wish you would just behave. Yes. You know, but it doesn't mean I don't love you if you're not doing that. It just means like, you know, there's, I think there's a million different moments in a, in, that probably come up with the kids where you expected something and it's not how it turned out. And it is, gender is an interesting concept around that where, yes, there is some likelihood that you will have certain experiences with certain genders more so than others. But I'm sure there's those moments where you realize, okay, I have a boy and he's, I thought I really like basketball. And he has no interest in watching the next game with me.

Like, I'm in here watching the next game and he is playing chess in the other room or whatever. And there was like some disappointment there of like, I got my, you know, consistent with male, you know, six years ago. And here I am watching the next game by myself. You know, I envision that consistent with male meant I'd have my little boy next to me with his Nick's jersey on and going crazy with me in the streets and he's, you know, not interested. Playing Pokemon or whatever he's doing in the other room, not interested. So I agree. There's going, this is just one, not to, you know, be a downer, but this is just one of many disappointing moments that you're going to have as your children grow into their own humans

that are going to be completely out of your control. Yeah. And I think almost like if she just like leaned more into it, like let's say that is a sad thing for her that she's not going to, she's envisioned having this daughter that she could named after her grandmother. And maybe she has these thoughts about like what she was going to do with her and do all these things, whatever it is. Like I think it's okay to let yourself be sad about that for a little bit.

And, you know, not feel like. like you're a bad person for doing that. I think if the shame around it almost makes it linger more, instead of saying, okay, like, let me take a, let me take a few hours a day, whatever it is to like, just feel bad that I didn't get the exact thing I wanted. It's okay. And this is coming from someone who's struggled with infertility and you're not here being like, how dare you care about the gender? Like, you should just be lucky to have a baby. And I think this happens to a lot of people. And I do think ultimately there will be experiences that you will have with your two boys that you didn't expect to have that are going to be joyful and fun and adorable. And there might be experiences that you

won't get to have that might feel like a little bit of a loss where you might see someone having an experience with a girl and you'll be like, ah, I didn't get to have that. You know, it's interesting because I did, you know, I met up with one of my college friends like I was talking about when we were in Boston and she has two boys. And I remember when she got the results of her second, you know, she's a girly, she likes shopping and she likes lots of girly things. And when she found out she was having her second boy, she was a little bit like this, you know, a little not the happiest. I won't go into too much detail, but not the happiest. And so, you know, we were sitting on the couch. Me and my two.

girls and having, you know, girl chat. I could tell she, you know, now 13 years later, she was having a little pang of that moment of like, she was like, do you guys do this a lot? Aw. You know, she was like, do you guys have these, you know, have these talks, you know, and I could tell, like it comes in these little moments, but I'm sure she has her moments where she feels like all the, you know, boy mom loves. So it's going to be a... And she could have talks with her sons. It's a certain way to, I mean, maybe it's, there's less of an inclination, but it's still pot, like you said, yeah. But we always talk about moments. There's like moments of feelings of loss and there's moments of feeling of joy, you know, in all the different, you know, combinations of

families and how that's going to work. So I agree with you. Let yourself have these feelings. Let your husband have his feelings. I think probably what triggered it was like him, your husband not hiding it and just showing his disappointment. You maybe were trying to kind of fake it a little bit or like cover it up a little bit. And then when he was letting it out, it may be. Then it's in the air. It's in the air. Yeah. Yeah. Which is infectious. I do agree with that. It's like, you know, there's these moments. And again, you're kind of like, you're kind of like, well, what are we going to to do with this feeling because we're not we can't change the results so like what are like what are we you know what I think it's like an awkward moment probably for them as a couple yeah and I think what

happens sometimes when what our minds do when we get an unchangeable disappointing result is we very most a lot of people very quickly go to well but it's okay because of this and it's okay because of that and this is why it's going to be okay and I'm going to do it this way and we're going to do And that doesn't allow you the space to feel your feelings and have that disappointment. And so I think it is important that you let yourself feel disappointed. It's okay. You're still going to love your son. You're still going to have wonderful moments.

But it is also, you might in 13 years sit on a couch with your friend with two daughters and have another pang of disappointment. And that's okay. You know, allow yourself to have those little feelings. feelings, those little moments. And sometimes it's hard because, like, other people project their own shit on you. Like, even me, I have two girls. And, like, you know, sometimes people will make comments. Like, are you going to try for the, are you going to, like, do another and try to have the boy?

Like, you get that sometimes. And it's like people, people almost, like, she said, part of it as I think there's, it's not as exciting to say we're having another girl. Like, I think people, like, there's like this visual societal vision of like, you know, this nuclear family with the boy. boy and the girl and like now you're set and like doesn't you know what I mean like totally got it all I remember we did a gender reveal on our boy I don't really remember doing a gender reveal when we had our second girl because like who cares kind of oh you already knew that you already knew

the gender we we knew the gender but we did like a gender reveal for everybody else right oh that's funny but it's like yeah I mean big deal you're bringing another girl you know like but when we had the boy, like it was like for other people to be like, oh, yay, something different. Right. I think that's something different. Something different. And I mean, I'll like normalize that too. I got, I have my, the, the, uh, twisters are three weeks apart. So I got one result. And then I got the other result three weeks later. And I think there was a part of me that would be like, it would have been nice to have one of each. There's like a feeling. Like I think there's like a, and I didn't feel like debilitatingly upset.

about it or like even if there's like a fleeting thought of like this would have been nice. But again, like I think if you I think what I did maybe it's different than this person is like, that would have been nice, but this is going to be nice too. And I think it's okay to say like that would have been nice and doesn't make you not love the baby. Gender reveals are funny, right? Especially that's why I think when we did it, we found out first and then we kind of did the reveal for everybody else because it's a little personal, you know, to be like getting the news publicly because people do have a feeling about it that you might not want to process in front of a lot of people. Yeah.

I mean, in some ways, it's like, you know, finding out what college are going to or like any of the, like, sometimes you want a second to like take in the results on your own. Right. That's why I think a gender reveal is kind of loaded. Personal experience that happened. Like I've seen a few where I'm like, oh, get the popcorn. and this is kind of entertaining because this person is having this very personal moment that probably shouldn't be public. I think if you're the kind of person who feels really strongly about the gender,

a gender reveal, a public, a gender, yeah, public or like large gender reveal is probably not the way you should go. I think you should only do those if you really don't care at all either way. Yeah. I've seen a few where like someone's unhappy and it's like not, you know, as I'm saying, no shame, but like, it's hard. Word to the wise.

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Canadian New Vehicle Total Registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. Okay, let's do some intentions. I'll read them. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I'm a newer listener who quickly became a subscriber. Thank you. Love the podcast.

I'm writing in for an intention. For some context, I'm the eldest child in my family. I'm in my mid-30s. I live out west while my family is all scattered around the northeast where I grew up. My mom is pretty classic. borderline personality disorder and perfectly fits the emotionally immature profile. So needless to say, our relationship has always been strained. I have been in therapy for over 16 years about it. I went to counseling with her before my wedding because her invitation and involvement were constantly in flux.

And generally, I'm in a really good mental spot considering my primary caregiver was and still is angry, reactive, judgmental, punishing and lacking a shred of self-awareness. I have her blocked on the phone and her many emails are filtered out of my inbox so I can choose to read them if I want to. attended my wedding and while she didn't make a big scene, she made a lot of small scenes and was unbelievably rude and self-important in the debrief. My parents are currently going through a divorce, finally, and naturally her behavior has escalated. She has no support system because she's such a difficult person and one of my siblings also doesn't talk to her. All of this is to say from one human to another, I feel for her deeply, but in practice it has become clear that she is just not someone

I can have any semblance of a relationship with. I tried in the beginning of the divorce to be there for her, but her disorder permeates absolutely every interaction. And as they say, don't light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm, which is exactly what this relationship constantly entails. As I get older, I feel like a mother hen for other adult daughters who have a relationship with someone who falls in the emotionally immature parent spectrum. And I'm able to help them so objectively and matter-of-factly, but every so often, I'm completely overwhelmed and saddened by my total lack of a mother. I genuinely don't like her. I don't have any love for her. And I don't have any love for her. And I don't have anything nice to say about her.

My body and mind, no, she is not a safe person. Sometimes these feelings make me feel like an objectively awful person, even though I'm consciously aware of how much time and energy I've put into this relationship. I'm at peace with not having a relationship with her, but I'm hoping for an intention that I can tell myself when I'm feeling so badly that I just can't have a relationship with her in any capacity, signed a betch who craves a mother. This is a really tough spot.

I think there's always sort of this natural craving for, maternal relationship that sounds like she's done a lot of work and she's made the best decision for her, which is not to have this relationship. But there's going to be moments where you're going to feel that longing, you know, even her sign off is, you know, it's in there. That's who craves a mother. She's going to have that moment of craving. And I think even coming full circle to beginning of the episode, sometimes when you have that moment of craving for anything, whether it's craving for nature, craving for connection in some way, our minds want to do the thing where we say, oh, I have this craving. I need to do something about it. I need to make a

change. I need to move. I need to, you know, and for her, I think what might happen or when you have these relationships where you've cut somebody off or you've created a very firm boundary. And then something happens where you have a craving, whether you're getting married or you have a baby or you, um, the person's nice maybe one day or I don't know, whatever. Something happens where you have that craving. There's that little bit of like, should I do something about this? Should I, am I doing the right? Yeah, should I reach out? Am I being too hard? Am I being too hard? I feel bad for them. Should I undo this because I'm having this craving?

And I'm here to tell you no. I think you've made this decision after years and years and years of probably painful experiences that have led you. I mean, I don't know all the details, but I can only trust that you've come to this decision for good reason after many, many years. of inability to set boundaries. And it's hard because the way she describes is that it's a disorder. Right. It's a mental disorder that feels in some ways like, oh, how can I blame her?

It's a mental disorder that's out of her control. But there are therapies that you can engage in and, you know, twice a week. She can be going to therapy. She can be doing DBT therapy, which is one of the only treatments that works for borderline personality disorder. she can be really engaging very heavily in that. And maybe she could get back. It doesn't sound like that's happening.

Yeah, she's being very self-protective. She kind of has to be her own mother. Right. And that's kind of the tough part. I think if you have a, you know, this kind of strained relationship where you're sort of like, societally, I think your mother is sort of is the person you're meant to rely on the most. Or, you know, it's a given that you would have a sort of relationship there. So I think it feels very strange.

societally, mentally, like, you're kind of like, I think to not have that relationship at all, there's no one who I think who would just not think about it at all. But it doesn't mean it's wrong that you're not, you don't have a relationship with her just because you think about it and it bothers you. The other thing that I think could be maybe comforting to her in some ways to use the comparison what we talked about a few weeks ago in terms of grief and loss with like a death was the idea that when you have these waves of grief, to conceptualize that as instead of like, uh, there's an loss and grief in that way of like someone's dead, they're gone, you can't experience them anymore. That's like so heavy because they're literally,

there's nothing you can do about it when you get that wave of loss. Here you get that wave of loss. and there's this, well, maybe I can do something. Maybe I can reach out. Maybe I can try again, which makes it more complicated. But if you can use that same concept of like this wave of grief is a form of what's left of my connection with my mother. It's not a physical connection in that I'm going to hang out with her and I'm going to hug her and we're going to go shopping together and,

we're going to have this loving motherly relationship. I can't connect with her physically anymore. I can't have the relationship that I want with her. But the grief, even though it doesn't feel good, it feels like a longing, but it's still a sign that there's like something left of our connection. There's like something's still there. So it doesn't feel good. It feels like a grief and it feels like a longing. but maybe there's some comfort in like she's not totally gone because there is some, I still long for her. Like she, the way she describes it,

and I get it. You know, this is kind of how a lot of people describe the way that they feel about emotionally immature parents or, you know, trying to love someone with borderline personality. You know, I genuinely don't like her.

I don't have any love for her. I don't have anything nice to say about her. She's not a safe person. Like, this is how this feels. So when you feel that way, it's not safe to be physically present, but this is a, this is her presence. You can't help it. This is going, you're going to have waves of this.

And maybe this is the closest you're going to get to any type of connection to her. Is this grief of whatever was once there. Maybe it was a connection you had with her as a baby. Or maybe it was just a longing because. you grew inside her body and her DNA is still inside of you and, you know, whatever that connection. There's something in there, some connection piece that is creating this longing, this craving, this loss. And maybe that's the only, this is a remnant of that connection.

Even though it's a painful remnant, maybe that's the best you're going to get in terms of a connection to her. So do you have an intention for her for when she's feeling that? So the intention that I wrote is this grief is what's left of our connection, not a call to action. I can feel the longing without needing to change the boundary. I think this can work for friendships that you've cut off or, you know, that this, there still might be some good things, you know, this or even a breakup, you know, there still might be. be good moments that live inside of you or there still might be good memories that live inside of you. Maybe in this case, I don't know how many good memories are. Maybe there's mostly bad memories,

but there is that maternal instinctual thing. But like if it's a breakup or if it's a friendship breakup, you know, this is what's left of your connection is the grief, the longing, but it can't be the physical real life connection. It's just living in this, this grief longing bit. but that doesn't mean that you have to do anything about it. It's just, you know, a feeling that will pass eventually. Yeah, this is a hard one. I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope that was helpful.

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All right, let's do some triggers. Do you want to read our first one? Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I'm writing in with a triggered scenario that just happened at the gym daycare I bring my son to. He turns one on Father's Day, and the daycare has a big calendar where they write all the kids' birthdays each month. I noticed several June birthdays were already listed, but not his. So I excitedly mentioned to the daycare worker that his birthday is on Father's Day if they were able to add it. She responded, oh, well, we can't really write it on there because it already says Father's Day on that date.

This made absolutely no sense because they could just write his name smaller underneath it. There was definitely room in the box. I walked away feeling weirdly deflated and annoyed. I know he's only one and would have no idea whether or not he's on the calendar, but it's this first birthday, and it's important to me. So how triggered am I allowed to be that she wouldn't just add my baby's birthday to the darn calendar? Sincerely, birthday, blues, batch. This is funny. I think this is more of a sign that the daycare just like, doesn't really care that much. And like, I think it's more, no, I think it's more triggering that

she asked and they said no than if they had them that they hadn't done it at all. Right. But it's weird that she like, because it's so easy to do. Like the fact that they said no is would be more upsetting to me than if I never said anything and it never happened. Yeah. It is odd. Just take a pen and write it in there. Like I'm a professional at squeezing things in the calendar until I got my skylight. Look at you. Not sponsored. Not sponsored. It is annoying that they couldn't just write it in there, but also who gives a shit? The kid can't even read. He has no. clue. It's going to be squeezed in microscopic letters in the bottom of the calendar. That's the thing, though, it's like, it's not even, it's for her. Like she wants, she said it's

important to me. Right. It's his first birthday and it's important to me. So I wanted some acknowledgement from someone else that it was an important date. Unfortunately, the daycare doesn't think it's that important of a date, which is like sad because you're kind of like, I think the idea of like you send your kid to this place every day, you want them to like want to like want to make you, you as the parent and the kid feel that's what it is. comfortable and included. And I think if it were like, if it was like her apartment building with like a list of birthdays or something and they didn't include it, I think it would be less triggering than like, I drop my kid off here every day and like I want you to make him and me feel

good. Right. Well, it's also the gym daycare. So that's like a little bit different because it's not like she's entrusting him there all day and they're like molding his mind and they're look. That means it's just like he, when she goes to the gym, she puts him, I've never used one of these things. Is that what it is? Like for an hour while she's at her workout class or whatever, she drops him off, which is kind of cool that they have everyone's birthday. Anyway, well, but I can also see the gym daycare people not being like so invested. That does change things because those gym people probably aren't that invested in making you feel special. Like,

you're not like maybe not even a paying customer of the gym daycare. I'm going to bump it down because it's the gym. If this was your daycare daycare, I agree with what you're saying, where they're like, you are entrusting your child to us, like for their, like raising them, helping to raise them.

Every day of the week. Yeah. This feels like we really care about your whole experience. meanwhile these people, I don't know. It does sound like you probably go there enough every day or often enough that this is bothering you or that they have consistency enough where they're writing down the birthdays of the kids that are going there. So I get it. It's annoying that they wouldn't just do it. If that was me, I would definitely just someone asks and it matters, just take a pen and write it in.

Right. Even if you thought it was kind of ridiculous. It would be like more annoying to say no to them than it would be to just write the birthday on. But I'm still going to give this like a two. I think this is not a big deal. It's writing it in with a pen. You probably won't even be able to see it. I think how they treat your son is more important.

And how they treat you. I would focus on that. I would focus on how they're treating your child, how they treat you. If this is an isolated thing that feels very irrelevant to the way that you're being treated in general, you know, maybe they're just kind of an OCD, neat freak.

it's going to mess up their calendar. I think they're more likely just lazy. She's like, I'm not writing. Like, it's fathers. It's taken. I don't, you know, or like she probably just thought it was stupid. So she didn't want to do it.

And the kid doesn't know. But like, I would have just done it if I were her. I'd give it a three because I think, I think I'd give it a three because I think it was harder to not do it than to do it if it made her happy. And she says, but it's more about it.

I don't think it's insulting to the kid. The kid doesn't know. It sounds like it's insulting to her, which I think makes it less triggering. than if it was an actual, if the kid were like four and he was like, why isn't my name? Yes. On the thing. Then it's like a five.

Yes. But because it's, he doesn't know it's about her and like, do we really need the daycare, the gym daycare to be that excited about the birthday? I'd give it a three. All right. Moving right along. Okay. Let's do our last one.

It is a voicemail. We love our voicemails. Let's roll the tape. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I am calling to see how triggered I can be. by my mother-in-law. I have a new baby, and she was over the other day

visiting the baby, and my baby's breastfed. She's with me all the time, and so she commonly stares at me when other people hold her. And my mother-in-law looked at me and looked at the baby and was like, what are you staring at her for? You look at her all day.

Now, that's like a throwaway comment, but ever since then, anytime she's over and my baby is looking at her son, my husband, she talks about, look at her, looking at him. Oh, she's looking at him. She brings it up all the time. The other thing that she did was this morning, I sent a video of my baby saying her first words, Mama, so sweet. And I even wrote in the text message to my mother-in-law that we're working on saying, dada, we're working on it, we're practicing it. And my mother-in-law just

wrote back. All I hear is Mama and thumbs up the text saying that we were practicing dad-da. It's her only son and she loves him very much, but I'm so triggered by her. She sounds very passive-aggressive. This is almost more infuriating than like a regular negative comment towards her because it's like you have to know the like subtext. Yes. If that was really the tone of the initial what are you, stop looking at her, you look at her all day. Not as a joke. That one's like rude.

That's just, I don't know. That's weird. Stop looking at her. Like, don't tell my baby to stop looking at me. Like she loves me and back off. Right. She's like making herself competitive with you. Especially when she's talking, when she looks at the sun, she's like, oh my God.

It's so cute, blah, blah, blah. It is like this weird dynamic, I think, probably if the mother-in-law and the daughter-in-law don't really like each other, that now there's like this thing that they both love. But there is a, you know, it's funny. Even when I send pictures to like Mike's parents, I'm like, I'm not sending pictures of like me and the baby. Like they wouldn't be like offended or say something negative about it.

But I'm just kind of like, I think they care more about pictures of their son and the baby. Yeah, it is. And she even, it does sound like it's like affecting. she's like starting to walk on eggshells where she has she's sending her right she needs to clarify we're working on dad-da it's like you don't have to be walking on eggshells just like clarify what the curriculum is in your house like the verbal you know structure of what words you're working on next so it does sound annoying to the point where you feel like you have to justify why she didn't first of all way to go most babies do say dad that first so the fact that she says

mama first is uh congrats on that one but yeah the fact that you have to walk on eggshells to clarify that you're working on dad that i think just shows that there is this culture of like competitiveness for some reason i mean you're breastfeeding her you're with her all the time there's going to just naturally be i mean even if she did like you more that's fine right at this age there's going to naturally be a little bit more of that connection to the person who's providing all of the sustenance right now. And she should know that. She raised a baby also.

Yeah, I definitely see this a lot where there is this irritation that happens when the mother-in-law comes over and everything the son does. Oh, my God, look how helpful he is. Look how great he is with the baby. Look how much the baby loves him. And it's like, are you kidding? Hello. Yeah. I've done everything all day and he changed one diaper and all of a sudden he's like,

it's like the next coming. Right. I mean, it sounds like she doesn't really like you, unfortunately. But I think that maybe she is like jealous of like you having this family or there's something underlying there. I would imagine if she's, because it's just like a weird thing to be so negative about. But I do think it's quite triggering. I hope you have a friend to make fun of her with, if not your husband.

I hope you when you tell your husband the store, like your husband says that it's weird. You know what's hard and I do, I really wish I could help with these mother-in-law, daughter-in-law dynamics because I think they can get very embedded. And most likely the people that we reach are the daughter-in-laws. If we reach some mother-in-law is great. I would love to attack this from both ends to help this dynamic because I don't think it has to. to be as bad, but what ends up happening is it gets very entrenched because maybe there is a little bit of jealousy or there's like a nostalgic longing to be needed in that way. Or maybe it's the experience that I had with your kids, you know, where it's like, you're so excited to be a grandma

and you come over and you just want to love all over the kids and you're not. And you've just waited and all they want is they're a mama. Like if I didn't have my own kids that were so needy and I've just been waiting for the last 15 years for a grandchild and then I come over and they just cry when I hold them and all they want is you. You know, it can feel a little bit like a rejection or if I don't have my own identity or I'm not working anymore. I don't, my kids are grown and they're out and now even my grandchildren feel like they don't want me when they're babies because they're so, it's normal. They're attached at that age. Well, I think it would be fine if she wasn't so excited about

her looking at the husband. Well, yeah, it feels almost like there's that he's like the extension of her in some way. So I think that's where it starts. And then what happens is the daughter-in-law is picking up this, you know, energy. And then this is where this dynamic builds in a negative fashion because now she's picking up this negative energy and she's kind of like developing a negative of response to it. And now she probably isn't thrilled when the mother-in-law comes around because she's getting this like, stop looking at her. Look at me.

And you're like, why would I want someone coming over holding my baby that's acting like this? So then she maybe says, no, it's not really great. I don't really think it's a great time for your mother to come over on Sunday. So then the husband says, oh, Ma, it's not really, you know, Sally said it's not great for you to come over on Sunday. And now, oh, well, Sally doesn't want me to come, you know. And then we have this vicious cycle if she doesn't want me around, you know, doesn't want me around. So then we do this dance of we just get more embedded in this negative mother-in-law, daughter-in-law.

I think all that is true, but she also did say, like, we're working on, like, she's clearly not trying to be, like, match her bitchy energy. She's saying, like, we're working on debt out. Like, I'm trying to, like, I know what you like, and I'm trying to get you more of it, which I think is, like, very irritating that she's responding to the. that negatively. Yeah, totally. I do give her credit. She really is trying. But to us and to others, she's like, I really can't, you know, she's good. I could, I'm glad this was a voicemail because you could hear that this is building towards something where if they don't, a few more times of this and she's going to reach her breaking point, which I get. So yeah, I give you credit because you really are continuing to try to give her what she wants.

which is her to leave. Yeah. To raise her child with her son. Yes. Kind of. That's what it sort of feels like. Right. It's hard.

It's like this baby phase. It's very natural for babies to have a strong preference for one parent. And it's hard to ride that out. It does balance itself out eventually. But like babies, especially breastfed babies that are really only being fed and spending so much quality time with one parent. You know, it can leave the other parent.

And she probably sees that she is that the baby is more bonded to the mother right now. That's okay. And if she could just, if the mother-in-law could just relax and realize like, okay, this is just a phase. She's going to say dad-da. She's going to look at dad-da more. She's going to bond more with him. Just relax. It's going to happen.

Maybe she could chill out a little bit. But yeah, this is the whole stop looking at her. You're with her all day, triggering. Yeah. She also sounds like she's like yelling at your baby. If the tone that you repeated is the tone, I'm going to give that like a six. That was really annoying. Okay.

I was going to say a five, four and a half, but six, yeah. If that's the tone and I think combined with all the other stuff, it's a lot. Yeah. I mean, text, you can't really tell the tone through text, but. I think even not to just say, oh, that's so cute, I can't believe it, blah, blah, blah, instead to say all I hear is mama. Right. Her first word.

Her first word. She's speaking. She's developing. She's making words. Like, yeah. Yeah. I agree. Six because of that.

Rude. I can't wait for you to become a mother-in-law and tell us what it's like from the other side. I know. I need to help the mother-in-laws. Maybe you should make a group for mother-in-laws. Yeah. You can't. You just can't like,

I could see there. urge to want to go back there and kind of vicariously like relive those years in some way or I could see how it could feel very tempting to want to grow up yeah you have to do something with that you have to like get therapy and do something with that's not your baby and that you can't project your maternal urges onto your grandchildren. children in that way. Well, it's kind of like, I could see, I guess I could see like, again, it feels like such a big moment for you. Yeah. But you're just not able to be as big of a part of it because it's not your baby. Yeah, it's like a lost identity. There's a sadness. Yes,

I'm sharing that. Yeah. And also what happens is like the, the mother is like oftentimes working and mothering and like so many identities that are, you know, competing at the same time. And then you have oftentimes this mother-in-law that maybe is retired or doesn't have that same sense of identity that is just like, you know, lost in some ways and so looking forward to this grandma identity that when it doesn't coming back to this idea of fantasy expectation of what they fantasize being a grandmother was going to be like. And then when it doesn't turn out that way, they're just trying to regain control in some way. I could see you why it's a tough spot to be in. I'd love to try to help so that you can enjoy being a grandmother, but without trying to.

That everyone hating you. Yeah. Just push it, just kind of bullying your way into something that then And it could be a really beautiful relationship. It really could if I think if it's done right with some vulnerability of like, oh, you know, I know that this, this reminds me of this, but I, you know, just in a way that that is a self-aware. I think being a self-aware mother-in-law is key. Self-aware of your own urges and your own fantasies and, you know, all of that without projecting that onto your grandchild and your daughter-in-law.

is important. So anyway, work and progress. If all that doesn't work, find someone to make fun of her with. I'm here for you in that way. All right. Well, we did it. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Betches.