Oversharing - My Husband Doesn’t Believe In Therapy

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

This week, Dr. Naomi updates Jordana on her mission to buy nothing during the holiday sales. Then, they listen and respond to a voicemail from a listener who had a different take on the topic of reselling Taylor Swift tickets that were won in a contest. Our Overshare comes from a Betch whose husband isn’t as enthusiastic about couples therapy as she’d hoped. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener who ran into some airport stress and wonders if she handled it correctly. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for navigating the uncertain space between intentional unemployment and securing a new job. And we’re feeling triggered by unsolicited gym comments and mother-in-laws who judge our parenting. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jurgana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. So great to be back.

How was your Thanksgiving? How to go? Thanksgiving was great. It was busy, but fun. We always love hosting. at having guests. And then there's like a almost like a post wedding. You know, people get like the post wedding blues. I mean, I'm fine. But I think the kids are like, ah, it's an empty house again. They miss everyone. They miss everyone. Yeah. But I told them that we're going to come see you in January.

So they're excited about that. I think sometimes it hits them that we live so far away from most of our family. And they don't think about it until everyone's here and then they're gone. So right. Well, they also don't see the benefits, I guess. They shelter them from all the, all the chaos. All they see is the good stuff. So how did your, I was thinking about you this weekend on the like seemingly never ending sale week. Yes. And I was thinking about your, your challenge, which I did not participate in at all.

I bought so much stuff that I'm not even sure like where or what anything is. right now because I had furnishing this house. Yes, yes, yes. How did yours go? I did great. I mean, I bought, like I said, I bought my little, my little jelly donuts. I bought. Nothing on Black Friday?

I did not buy anything. No sale items. Oh my God. I did not do it. I did not. You know, it's funny because I also watched this Netflix documentary. called Buy Now. I think it's something like,

if that's not it, it's something like that. It's almost like when you watch one of those, like one of those food documentaries about meat or, you know, like what you shouldn't need or where your food comes from and then you're scared of buying things or like eating meat or whatever.

So I did that as a little extra inspiration and just the sheer amount of like clothing, waste that exists on this planet is kind of insane. So that helped me not buy clothes, but it was really interesting. I did it with my groups, like I said, and if you're interested in joining a group, you can check it out at Naomi Bernstein.com. But I did it with my groups. And one of the things that my group members found hardest, that was a theme, was like a lot of people do kind of like a coffee walk in the morning to start their day where they like walk to their favorite coffee shop. The toughest thing for people was giving up their morning coffee shop run.

Oh, you can't even buy coffee? This seems extreme. No, I mean, it was a coffee machine. It was, I don't currently, I just ordered a coffee machine. Okay. It's patient of your arrival. But if you don't have a coffee machine, then get your coffee. But if you do have a coffee machine, then that's not necessary, right, to go and buy coffee. So, Just go to a monastery. This is crazy. It was one week, and then we kind of took it down a notch just to become more conscious of what we're buying. But it was so interesting that realizing that this coffee walk that a lot of people do, it's won the coffee, which is like, you know, a stimulant and it's coffee and the smell of coffee.

But it's like the getting you outside, the little bit of exercise. for a lot of people there's like that social aspect, especially if you live alone where you go to your coffee shop, you know the barista, they know you, you have a little chat. There was so much embedded in this little routine that it was really interesting. Doesn't that seem worth of $5?

Yes. Well, it's not about, it is. So this is more about just becoming aware. So what we did after we explored like what were the hardest things for you to give up was we kind of shifted to, okay, this thing seems valuable, right? You get outside, you do this. But if it's valuable to you, be in it when you're doing it. So like you're aware of, okay, I'm doing my coffee walk. I know why I'm doing it. When I'm walking outside, I'm going to feel the fresh air on my skin. I'm going to, you know, get, I'm really going to

in your hand. Yes, exactly. I know what I'm looking for when I walk in and I want that social thing. I'm going to walk in and get that social thing instead of doing the thing that you do or buying the things that you buy, for example, for you, when your packages start coming in, really actually appreciating, allowing the joy in of what you're seeking. Okay, I'm seeking this feeling of I put on this sweater and it's so soft and cozy and I look in the, mirror and I feel like a million dollars like but actually like make time to let that play out versus like I just have the imaginary feeling of this thing when I click and then when the package comes I'm busy I'm running about my life I take the thing I throw it in the closet and like don't

even care yes yeah no I think that's a great point I didn't buy any clothes this time also for that reason. I don't think clothes really bring me that feeling of like excitement and joy. Again, unless it's like something that looks like absolutely amazing on me or like, you know, something that's like super high utility. I really don't feel that way about clothes. These, I do feel like, you know, I bought the headboard for the guest room that you're going to be like sleeping in. Like there's like, that do feel like I, all the things that I'm buying are to like for utility. I bought like a coffee machine again. So I don't have to keep living my house and spending money on coffee. But for example, like the headboard thing, like when we, when you take that walk upstairs and you're like, oh, this is where you're sleeping

and you show me the room and I look at it and I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. And there's a smile on my face. Like, we can be in that moment and actually enjoying the reason for the thing that you buy. So I really loved it. I loved it. And I'm going to keep doing it. And I have my group basically just like writing down. Yes. And I hope to throw a wrench in the mix of all of this like buy, buy stuff. I mean, I'm just dropping the bucket. It almost reminds me of like an elimination diet.

You ever see those things with like nutritionists or something or like you have like a, you're having like a weird reaction like you're having like gastro issues and then they say they recommend like cut all these things that could be causing the issue from your diet for like a week. and then you like slowly and reintroduce them and see how each one makes you feel. Yes. It feels kind of like that. Obviously that's like a little bit of a stronger body reaction, I'm sure, but still the same concept.

Yeah. And really just watching yourself, you know, we always talk about like feel your feelings like when they're negative, but like this is a good way to feel your feelings when they're positive. Like I bought this thing. I'm conscious about it. I did it on purpose and I'm going to watch what happens inside my body when I, enjoy this item, whatever it is, and like really feel your feelings of whatever it is that you feel

when you, you know, when you put together the room and you step back and you take that look at it. And you're like, wow, it's really coming together and just taking a breath and be like, what does this feel like in my body to look at this beautiful room coming together? Yeah, I love that. But speaking of spending and things you can do with money and we got a strong, you know, It's funny because we did another Taylor Swift ethical dilemma. And I thought, okay, I'm not going to get yelled at this time because I'm like on the side of good. I'm like, don't.

Don't. Uh-oh. It's bad to like to sell tickets at an upcharge and make money off of that. And I this time I felt like, okay, like I came to the other side. And I came to the other side because someone entered a contest, which I think is different than buying them. Because I just feel like maybe you're like putting in the work to get the tickets when you're like. And maybe, again, everyone has their own moral relativism thought process. In my mind, it's like, if this is like a business for me, I'm like, I'm like going and I'm

waiting and I'm going to be the person who's there first to like get all the tickets. And like, then I resell them and that's my job. And to me, that just seems like a little bit, a little bit less morally depraved than entering a contest. Right. Well, that's what people do with anything on eBay. You buy Lego sets and then you save them until Christmas. then you

charge. Yeah. And again, is that the nicest thing either? Also, not really. But I think for some reason, I think that like,

entering a contest, which in my mind is for like people who really want to go. I think of contest is like a thing there's for someone who really wants to go and that you should enter a contest if you want to win and enjoy the thing. Like for some reason,

for some reason to me, it just seems worse to enter a contest. Right. But I guess like, I don't know, maybe people just like to be mad. we got so many emails that were like very angry about our stance that like it that she shouldn't be friends with someone who would do that. And I think a lot of the thought was like we're out of touch or like we don't know what like $12,000 could do for someone.

And it reminded me of the conversation we were just having about like, you know, you think about all the money that of things you could buy or like, you know, maybe you have debts. Maybe you have other things. Right. And so I thought, you know, we got like we got a few emails. people who were like, and maybe there are people who had sold tickets at an up sale value and they felt triggered by us saying, don't be friends with that person. And again, like, I think, like, is it the worst thing you could possibly do? Are you stealing like cancer medication from a hospital? No. But did I think, do I think it's like a little like to enter a contest to, with the point of reselling? And we did caveat that if she had entered them with a mind of like, I think I'm going to, I really want to go. And then she couldn't go for whatever reason and did that.

Right. That was like better. But I thought we got it. We got one of the people left a voicemail, which I thought was like, you know, you really feel strongly. Let's play it. All right. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I just listened to the Taylor Swift, Betisist, I think it was. And I have a strong opinion the other way that I don't think that this woman who received, the tickets for from the contest, the fan contest, and sold them for 6,000 each, that's 12,000 total. I don't think she necessarily did anything wrong. I think that's, that could be life-changing money for someone. That could be paying off their student loans. That could be buying the house. It could be a lot. Also think that it's about someone's threshold for like life-changing

money. I would wonder if you two would feel the same way if they could make, let's say, the person, the woman who sold the tickets could make $40,000, could make $80,000. Then would the Swifties fan experience be worth that still? Would it still be unethical or immoral that she took that experience from someone else just to make $80,000 or just to make $40,000, is that fan experience worth that amount of money? Obviously, I think it's different for every person, but I do think $12,000 can be, like, a game-changing money, and I think it's different for every person. Thank you for all that you do.

I love the podcast, but. I appreciate the, you know, the, you know. It was said in a nice way. I think that there's different ways to give me back. This was fine. What are your thoughts on that? My thoughts are I see her perspective. I get it.

I really can understand. Maybe it's almost like intent, right? If you entered the contest with the intention of getting these tickets and then reselling. them, that seems like not cool versus, let's say she entered the contest. She got the ticket. She was like, I wonder how much these are worth. She went on to Ticketmaster and was like, whoa. I could get $6,000 each for these. Like, this could pay off my loans. This could pay off my credit cards. Like, I cannot give up the chance to do this. That seems a little bit different than entering a contest with the intention of then reselling it.

So we don't exactly know the intention. It sounds like maybe she won the tickets and then I could see doing that. Like if I won tickets, like front row tickets to Taylor Swift, I might be like, I wonder how much these are worth. Right. And then you go on and you're like, whoa, that's legit. That's like I need that more than I need to go to this show. So feedback received.

I can understand it. And there is. There is an amount for all of us. I don't think I would say there's absolutely no amount of money that I would ever sell these tickets for. Right. Well, I guess that's her point. She's trying to say like, you know, if she said we're out of touch, it's like, well, maybe $12,000 isn't enough, but $100,000 is.

It's a fair point. I also think it's a little, also that's morally relative because it's like, all right, well, like, I could rob a bank and have life-changing money. like that's you know like that there it is like like that's also wrong you would say the the victim is the bank what does the bank really need the money for the bank insurance or whatever it is right do you know what I mean like you could sort of use that argument with anything that's sort of immoral that you could do like you could you could do that right with anything yes yes I agree And I just think there's something that feels sketchy.

Like you could just go around all day applying to contests that you don't intend to keep the prize and just your intention is to sell the item. And that just doesn't seem like the right way to make a buck. You know, like there's other ways to make money and kind of pretending that you want something that you intend to sell when you know that's not the point. If they wanted to sell them, they could just sell them. So yeah, it's a sticky one. I do get her perspective. I think to me it matters if you went into it, like I'm going to win these and I'm going to resell them or if you went into it, like I want to win these.

Wow, I didn't realize how much these are worth. I'm going to resell them. Yeah. I agree. I agree. It makes a difference in my mind as well. And for me, and again, maybe not for you. My thing is like you got them for free.

And for me, like you put no work in. you got them for free. You just did whatever. Again, I don't know what the contest was, but I'm assuming you just kind of like threw your name into a hat. Right. So again, it's all relative, I think. Like, do you regret saying don't be friends with the person?

Maybe, maybe given, like with the idea of this thing that she got, she won them, then realized how much they were worth, then was kind of like, I can't. She felt a little bad about it. If she like, again, she like went online. She saw how much it was. She sold them. She felt like she's like, if she's explaining this to you with a little bit of like a, eh, this like I really was going to go.

And then I saw how much it was. And I just like, I have so much student loans. Like I can like, it just felt crazy to me the idea to not sell these, these tickets. Right. Or like something that would make me feel a little bit better would be like, all right. they're worth 12,000. Maybe I keep 11,000. And then I buy two tickets for $500 and give it to a child that would never otherwise be able to go to this type of concert and just get like two $500 tickets and like give them to someone who's like a real super fan that would never be able to go. That would make me feel a little.

Some kind of I got this for free. I'm going to give back in some way. I think would take the edge off of it. Yeah. I mean, it's hard because you think of like, corporations, right? They make like so much money off of probably doing like so many like sort of nefarious things, right? And then they're like, oh, like donate to St. Jude's. Remar like, like, you donate and like we'll take care of the logistics. Yes. Do you know, we sponsor this thing and it's like, again, it's nicer than nothing. I think it's nicer. It's like there's, I think we're all trying to do the best we can to an extent. Yeah. It's very true. Even that I of like we're going to do some sketchy stuff and then like donate to cover our tracks.

They talk about that in that documentary that I saw, which is, you know, it's like people that are just ruining, you know, fashion industry that's like ruining the environment. And then they're like, but we're going to give, you know, donate to this green cause or whatever is. Yeah. No, I agree. But on the other hand, it's kind of annoying when like you have people who are a little holier than now and they're constantly like shaming you for like, don't buy anything. It's all wasteful. like blah blah, blah. Like it's not going to like there is like there is it's like it's okay to like again. I think it's okay to like indulge every once in a while.

Mindful better if you do it mindfully. Yes. That's the only honestly that's the only thing that I that I'm trying to do that I'm working with my group members to try to do is just slowing down and being conscious. And it's so hard when you're getting these emails in like 40%. sent off. You're like, I better do it today. I better. And you just start, like you said, you bought a million things.

Like you probably, when the stuff starts coming, you're to be like, I was almost like in a blackout mode. Like, I don't even remember what I got here. Right. Well, I have spreadsheets of everything that I need. So maybe that makes me a slightly more mindful. Wow, look at you. I didn't know you were that type. Good for you.

I have a lot to. I didn't really furnish my house when I moved in because it was like we were like going to be moving out. So I do want the house to be like have a couch. Organize. Yeah. All right. Yeah, no, get your stuff. But once the couch comes, like, let it sink in. Anyway, I do appreciate the voicemail. I really love some good, level-headed, calm, honest feedback. And on that note, I know we mentioned it last

time that we would love to talk to some of our listeners, because I love, love having a dialogue. I don't want to just, you know, it's really nice to not just be me and you to kind of get feedback from the people that we're helping. So if you did write in, if you have something that you, you know, that we gave some feedback on and you disagree or it went great or you have a follow up, let us know. And maybe we can have you on under our subscription plan to follow up the conversation and get more in touch with what you guys, you know, are thinking and feeling. Yeah,

let you in behind the car. It'll be a very intimate, again, it's behind a paywall. So it's like semi-private. Anyone who's paying, I would assume, is like,

you know, not just casually listening. Like they're, it's a real community. So submit if you want to come on. You can't resell it. And we can keep you anonymous if you want, or confidential or anonymous.

We don't, we won't share your name. If you really want to change your voice, we could probably figure out how to do that. but I think it's going to be, it would be really cool to have someone on, be able to really work through something face to face. So oversharing at betches.com. Oversharing at betches.com.

Also, you can leave a voicemail at 646-363-6-2-9-4. And again, we welcome feedback given nicely and tastefully all the tests. Should we get into it? Let's do it. I will read our overshare. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I've been a long-time listener, and I knew the day would come when I would feel the need to write in.

Here it is. We are here. Love it. My husband and I have been married for about a year now. We have been dating for quite a few years before getting engaged, so we have had a pretty solid relationship. We've had our issues, but what couple hasn't? We know each other pretty darn well.

I've been in therapy for many years now, and I've made some amazing progress. My friends and family even comment on how much I've grown in so many ways. My husband is a divorce attorney and he's always been pretty against therapy. Of course, bad for business. That was me, not him. No one in his life goes to therapy except me. So he has very little real life experience with it. I've always been a supporter of therapy.

Even when you don't need it, I feel we can all use it to help understand ourselves better and how we function in this world and in our relationships. So naturally, I want to start couples therapy. I found a therapist and we use my insurance to cover it. We have been going for a few months now and the other day we got into a little bit of a tip about lifestyle changes while trying to conceive and he got defensive. I said we can talk about it in therapy and he immediately groaned and rolled his eyes. I asked what was going on and he basically said he sits through therapy with his blood

boiling during and after and he doesn't really feel like it's helping. I was so hurt. I actually thought it had been helping. but then I realized that it can't help unless we're both willing to change. This whole interaction made me realize he's just been going through the motions and isn't willing to change. Should I be triggered by this? And if not triggered, what should I do?

Do we just stop going to therapy because he doesn't believe in it? We talked to our therapist briefly about this issue, but he didn't express how he felt like he did in this instance. When I offered to go every other week or every month, he said, it's fine. We can keep going. So how was I supposed to know that he hated it so much if he's telling us. me he'll go. I'm quite confused and hurt, to be honest. I feel he can really benefit from therapy, especially after how he responded to this. He's always had a hard time expressing his emotions.

We've had many arguments that come from him not saying something for months, and it just comes up that he felt a certain way, and I had no idea. Any advice would be helpful from you, too. You guys are amazing, and I'm so grateful for your podcast, a lonely and my therapy journey, betch. All right. I assume you deal with this kind of thing. Yes. Yes. And the best news in this email is that she offered him the out and he said, no, let's keep going.

Or like, however he said it, maybe he said it begrudgingly. Fine. Yeah. But if he really, really wanted the out, I think he would have taken the out. So this might just be one of these cases where it gets worse before he. it gets better, which happens a lot, I think, in couples therapy and an individual therapy, where it's almost like the hard stuff that you haven't said, which creates like the little conflicts, like the below, you know, the stuff that kind of pops its head up is like the symptom.

And then underneath is this, I think for him, the fact that he's not really expressing how he feels. And he's holding it in. So we're getting to that, it sounds like, in the therapy. Like that's what's coming up is that he needs to be able to have more of a voice in his relationship where he can say how he feels and she's going to need to be able to tolerate that. So to me, this sounds like a natural progression of therapy where he doesn't like it. because he's maybe still nervous for some reason to say how he feels. And so he's like holding it in and blood boiling.

Whereas I think if they keep going and hopefully with the help of the therapist, if he or she is aware of what's happening, they can get to the point where he can start to trust that he can say what he thinks without, I don't know, he might be afraid of some reaction that she's going to have. Right. And that's why he doesn't freely share what he's thinking. And if she's doing therapy and she's becoming more self-aware, that's wonderful. Because now she can be aware of making sure to create a safe space to be like,

no, I really want to know. It sounds like maybe they're trying to have a baby. She, I'm assuming maybe wants him to drink less or not smoke weed or whatever it is. Spend money on other stuff. Yeah, something's happening. And like, he needs to be able to, this is, he needs to be able to say, what he thinks and feels about the changes that she's wanting him to make. And she needs to be able to really listen, validate, stay calm.

And if she wants this therapy to go in a positive direction, maybe she can reassure him. Like, I can handle it. Like, I can handle what you have to say. I want to know. I want to hear it. I like that. turning the tables on her. Why do you think so many men are resistant to therapy?

I just think their brains have been trained, whether it's by their family, society, whatever it is, peer pressure to have an emotion and then very quickly push it down. So that for so many reasons, one, you don't cry, you don't show like weak emotions which don't go with a lot of people's ego identity. Right. Or view of masculinity probably. Right.

I think there's one that's just like wanting to be the cool guy, you know, that just like go with the flow kind of guy and a peer group perhaps. So you learn that way to like not have big emotions around things. And some men, I think, are a. afraid of their own anger sometimes. Like that they'll be angry at a therapist? That they might blow up, that they might lose their temper, that they, like if they open up that little channel to anger, that they can get a switch flipped. And then they might start raising their voice or saying something mean or like just losing.

So it's easier to kind of keep the whole thing tightened up. And then you don't have to regulate. it's like you don't have to regulate your emotions. You know, it's almost like a drinking thing. Like if I just drink nothing, then I don't have to regulate what I'm going to drink, how much I'm going to drink when I'm going to drink. You're just like, I'm drinking nothing.

So this feels, I feel really in control of this thing. Right. If I let out going there. Yeah. Interesting. And I feel like maybe there's like this also this feeling of like, if I'm going to therapy,

I'm sort of admitting that like there's something wrong or like I'm putting it out there that there's something wrong and I don't I don't want to like either feel bad for myself enough to think that there's something wrong or like be seen as having issues or something. Yes. Yeah. I think that is a big part of it is like you're right acknowledging if you go to therapy that there's like a quote unquote problem. Right. Exactly. Especially this guy's like a divorce attorney. He's probably like I know what happens. like after a couple tries that or something maybe. Right.

Yeah, I definitely think that there's some fear. But that the truth, we talked about this a couple of sessions ago, the truth will set you free. You know, like it really is once you do that thing and you go in and you say, whatever it is that you have to say, that thing that you haven't said the entire time and maybe she cries or maybe she feels sad or whatever it is or. you just rip the band-aid off, you can become so much closer after that because it's like now you have more of a shared experience rather than him having this one experience that he's holding

in that she's completely not a part of about. Then you feel so much more connected. So I think you're there. I think you're close because he's still going and he could have when you said, you know, do you want to stop or whatever? He could have said, yeah, this is stupid. I'm not doing this anymore. Right.

And do you have any advice for someone whose partner is resistant, but wants them to, you know, because I think that's probably, I've seen a lot of people where that's the case where it's like, you kind of feel like it's the solution, the men's like we don't really need that. And then you're sort of at an impasse. Yeah. I mean, I guess it depends on the situation, right? Depends if it's like you're kind of, this is, it's not going to work out without it. That's different than if you're just like, I think.

this would really help. One thing that I could recommend is offering up a safe space, like, so that they know that you're prepared that you might, they might have some feelings that come out in the therapy session that you don't like, but like that you're going to be okay and you can handle it and like you're not going to be angry at them all day. And that is on, like a lot of people we've talked about, they want to go to therapy because they want the therapist to tell the person that they're wrong. Right. If that's what you're looking for.

That's usually the person who's like, we've got to go to therapy. It's because like you're not listening to me. Yeah. Yes. So you have to like be mindful of your own intentions as the person that's trying to get someone into therapy also. So it can't be like I need you to go in because I've been saying this to you for so long and now I need someone else to say it so that you'll listen.

It has to be going into it like there must be something that's blocking this other person from doing the thing that I'm repeatedly asking them to do, whatever it is, like, you know, where you're like, I need someone else to, like, drill this home. Right. Being self-reflective and maybe ahead of time, it might be helpful to just offer up a safe space for them to do that. So some people feel like, I don't want to go in there. I'm going to say this thing that I know I need to say, she's going to get all angry about it. Now we're going to go home fighting. We're going to be, you know, it just feels like you're opening a can of worms. So I think it is helpful to go into it with an awareness of I might hear some stuff that I don't want to hear

and I have to be able to be okay with that. Right. Like whatever is boiling his blood, he's not saying it for a reason. And it might be because the therapist, perhaps he doesn't want to be judged by the therapist, but it might be because he doesn't want to like make the situation worse at home or start fighting. And yeah, like you said, he's a divorce attorney. So maybe in his mind, it's like, I don't want to turn into one of those couples that starts fighting and then we end up in this position. Yeah. No, that's very interesting, I think, to like see that perspective of why, you know, because I mean, like, obviously, like, we're very comfortable with the idea of therapy. And so it's like, sometimes it feels like hard to understand why someone wouldn't want like do something that would help them.

Like what's the, like, you start to see the downside. of something when you're so like, and she, and she's kind of like that too. She's been therapy for years. She's like, I think it's amazing. It's been like, you know, it helps me do all these things. And it's sometimes hard to even like see the perspective

of someone else who's like, this thing that you think is great, like I think is kind of stupid. Right. And it is, it's very vulnerable. Like, it's, you know, it's a very unique relationship where you're not even going to tell your parents the thing.

You're not going to tell your best friends. friends like these are things that you're going to admit to that are problems in your marriage that nobody knows and now you're going to walk in and tell a total stranger like kind of owning up that your marriage has these like weaknesses or right trouble spots and some of them do come from like sexual issues that are like very personal or financial issues that are very personal or substance use issues that are very personal. So you know that you're walking into something where you're going to be asked to be vulnerable in a way that is really different.

It's hard enough to do it alone with your intimate partner, let alone a brand new person that you're just meeting. So, right? I do get it. But I think if you're, you know, if you can say I don't, you know, to him, like, I don't want you to be bottled up. Like, I want to know what's going on inside of you. And even if I cry or even if I get angry, you know, for a day or a few hours after whatever it is that you say, like, I want to know.

And you have to mean it. Right. Yeah, and that's hard. All right. Well, good luck. Let us know how this one goes. If, if, I mean, sounds like he's already, like you said, he's already there. He's not trying to leave.

Yeah. He, I think he's aware that this is a good thing or he would have taken me out. So that's positive. I would just keep going. And maybe in the room with the therapist, like talk about talking about it at first before you talk about it. That might be helpful. I like that. Let's do a betraceousist.

We've got a, I thought this was great holiday travel, betchesist. We've got a two for, we could do each one first, two for one special. Dr. Naomi will read. I will read this. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. me, thank you for everything you do. Your podcast is the perfect blend of humor, relatability, and expertise, and I look forward to it every week. Thank you. I have two non-tuna sandwich-related air travel questions for you. One, this morning I was at JFK and rude to meet my

family for a vacation. I checked into my flight, but needed to drop off my checked bag. The line was long and I was a little nervous as my boarding pass said I needed my bag checked by 8.10 a.m. for my 9, 10 a.m. flight. At about 805, there was still a dozen people ahead of me and at least two or three dozen behind. A woman approached me asking if she could cut in front of me. She said her flight was leaving at nine. I told her, sorry, but I'm nervous about missing my flight too. She and the people behind me both gave me dirty looks, and the people behind me let her cut in front of them. I felt like an asshole standing directly in front of her one place closer to the front of the line than she would have been if I'd let her cut, but then I realized she didn't just cut in front of the people

right behind me. There were 30 people behind them that she got in front of. Any of those people could have been late for their flights, too, maybe even later than the woman who'd approached me. In essence, the people behind me screwed everyone else over by helping her out. And if I'd been behind them, I would have been annoyed. Who's in the right in this situation? I'm someone who truly loves random acts of kindness holding the door open, swiping people. into the subway, et cetera. But is this kindness at other people's expense? I like this one.

Yeah. Yeah. I like this one. I think it's an interesting question. I don't think that I think if you're, if you're going to miss the baggage window, you have to go to like the front person who works there and be like, listen, it says the cutoff.

And that's, I've done this before. I've been late. You were also super late airport person as we, as we've done. Maybe you've gotten better as you've gotten older, but I feel like when you were like in your 20s and 30s, definitely. My 20s, I missed many flights. Yeah, and I've gotten there.

Like, I'm always someone who's like, I'm like, I'm super positive, I think, thinking about, I'm always like, oh, I'll get there like at the time. And then to bring it back to the beginning of this episode, I feel like when I'm at the airport too early, I just start buying things I don't need because I'm bored. So I try not to get there too early. So I think this is a common issue.

I think that she should, my personal opinion was that the woman behind her should have gone to someone who worked there and said like, I'm here before the amount of time that was allowed to check the bag. But if I wait on this line, I'll miss it. Can I go to the front? Not the individual people.

Right. Yeah, look, I don't fault her for trying. I also think it was within this listener's Right, to say no, she was also stressed out and late. I think it would be different if her flight was at like 11 and she said, no, that would be annoying. And I like the idea of like a human interpersonal interaction around like, hey, yeah, no problem. My flight's not for an hour and a half. Like, go ahead.

That's lovely. That's like nature taking its course and people helping each other out. I don't think she did anything wrong by saying no. I get that it felt really icky that everyone else let her go. And then she said no and they're all like stink eyeing her. Right. And she seems like the asshole. Yes.

She's going to make her fight. Right. Would you rather be kind and stuck in the airport? Yes. If she wasn't, she was also late. It was a 10 minute difference. I think if I was late also, I probably would have said no as well. I don't think she did anything wrong.

Yeah, my flight's at 9-10. I'm so sorry. I would love to help you out. But like I also am running late. So, you know, yeah, I'm gonna go. You'll be one, it'll be five minutes. It's five to seven minutes later for you. Yeah, I don't think you have to do it.

I think when it's annoying is when if you have a flight and you're there like two and a half hours early and you don't let someone in, that's annoying. Like you're just standing there and you're just going to be standing there when you get inside. So yeah. It's like a paid forward thing like you know, you let someone cut you one time when you have extra time. That someone lets let's let's them cut you. I mean, this is like the airline's fault. Like get more people working at the desks. Right. To check people in. No, totally. I do think it would be, you know, your idea of like going directly to the front being like, I have a flight at nine o'clock. Can I please jump in here? Yeah. I was here on time. The line's really long. I

think that's a great idea. Then it's up to them if they want to say yes or no. And I don't think there's anything wrong with just nicely asking someone. But if they say no, because they have a they have a flight that's leaving soon too. I don't think you did anything wrong. I get that feeling of like you have like, you know, 12 sets of eyes like glaring, glaring down at you that you're the one that like wouldn't let her in. But maybe they didn't know your situation. And I've been, again, I've been this person. I was that person this year. I think earlier this year. I went to a airport person. The airport people never say no. Because then they have to deal with you. They really don't. Because like if you don't get the thing on, they have to deal with you like again. And so I think that they do move you to the front. People hate you. That'll see them doing that. But right. Again. Don't make eye contact. And, uh, yeah. Don't make eye contact. If anyone said, I just apologize. Yes. I think people feel, I think that's what happens at the airport people feel like you can like i get i'm okay with like a slightly unethical act at the airport cutting the gate in front of you doing the you know boarding one one boarding group ahead if you're

worried about your bag having to be checked like i'm okay with that if something happens where you get called out you could just say i'm really sorry yeah like yes no i i agree i think part of why if i'm thinking about it now, as I've gotten older, I don't cut it as close is because I like the feeling of being able to maybe let somebody in front of me or not being like in fight or flight, like my nervous system activated mode because I'm late. Like I don't like that feeling. It doesn't bring out my best self either with the people that I'm traveling with or the people around me or just my relationship with myself in that much.

moment. So I think as I've gotten more experience, I realize that, you know, leaving the extra half hour is just good for my own constitution and the way that I deal with the world around me, where then I can easily like feel great about being like, sure, go ahead in front of me. No problem. And then I've like done a good deed. I can stay calm. So yeah, I do think that leaving a little extra time is great. It just allows you to be a better human. Even like I I've seen people all the time, like couples traveling together or families traveling together where like if there's a group of people traveling together and they're running late, it's like so the vibes are so stressful between the people and the group that I'm like,

oh gosh, thank God I'm not involved in that dynamic right now. Like they're all snipping at each other and like. Very tense. Tense. Very tense. So it's one thing if you're on your own. But then, you know, you know, you. you're just, then you sometimes kind of have to be that person that you're saying, like,

skip to the front, cut in front, don't, you know, whatever. It's like, that's not ideal. If you have to do it, I agree, apologize. But, yeah, I don't think. You know, everybody wants their carry-on bag on the flight, not just you. Not everyone. Some people have a check bag as well as carry-ons. And in that case, I would be happy to be the last person to board because if they check

the bag, then I could just... You're checking a bag anyway. I could go there anyway. Right. So, you know, it's just one... It's basically at the end of the... Just so I'm first on the boarding of my individual ticket. Right.

Yeah. I mean, I definitely think there's worse things. I've definitely tried to, like, you know, rush to get to the front, for sure. But, yeah, let's see what her other... She had a second question here. So number two is... I dropped off my bag just before the cutoff and made my flight, yay, and I'm someone who likes to sit on the aisle. I like having the freedom to get up and go to the bathroom when I want to without disturbing anyone, and I rarely sleep on planes, so I don't mind being disturbed by others who need me to get up so they can too.

But the pilot warned us before takeoff that we'd be experiencing turbulence a couple of hours into the flight because of weather. We hit a few small bumps, and the pilot said something like, there's that turbulence I promised over the intercom saying he's turning on the fast and. seatbelt sign. The woman sitting in the window decided in that moment that she needed to get up to go to the bathroom. When she started to get up and asked me to get up too, I asked, didn't they just say to fasten our seatbelts? She said, yes. And I said, as jokingly and lightheartedly as I could, you don't care? And she said, no. I felt I had to get up and let her out, so I did. Of course, everything ended up being totally fine, but as an anxious flyer who was super freaked out at the news of all the hospitalized people who were hit by flying objects,

during turbulence on a flight in Europe a month or so ago. I spent the time that she was in the bathroom wondering to myself, is it ever okay to say no when someone asks you to get up from your aisle seat so they can get out of the row? Looking forward to your thoughts, a bet you should maybe just win the lottery and fly private. P.S., please continue to talk about your family dynamics growing up. It's so comforting to hear all the deep and compassionate ways that you relate to your listeners.

Well, we try to do that for sure. when it feels right. I think for this one, for the last one I agreed with her with, this one, she's being a little bit of an arc. Yeah. And here's the thing. No one's like loving using the plane bathroom.

So if she's going when they have the seatbelt sign on, like she's got to go. Yes. I would assume. Totally. I agree. I've had the same feeling. That's on her.

Like you're going to lift your butt up for two seconds, let her out and sit back down. and buckle your seatbelt and you're going to be fine. If she wants to fly around the airplane bathroom, that's her choice to make. That's not on you. You cannot say no. She's going to like paint her pants. Yeah.

So the answer to like, is it ever okay to say no to let someone out from the inside? Like not really. I guess maybe if they've gotten up like 15 times and they're getting up to like just go chat with someone and then come back and that they keep doing it. It's really annoying and they don't actually have to. use the bathroom. Like after a while, you could kind of say something, but that's her choice if she wants to break the rules and get up and go when the seatbelt sign is on. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. She is being a bit excessive. I had issues where like, you ever try to, you're ever like, I'm going to like just wait until we land. Like, I have to go a little bit. I'm just going to wait

until we land and then maybe like something gets delayed or whatever and like the seatbelt sign is on, but you're like, I was not counting for this extra time. Yes. And like, I've got to go. And I've got to I wasn't like, you know. Yeah. And it's, you know, at that moment, that's her decision to make. It's not, there's, there are flight attendants that will reprimand her if it's really a big problem that she got up. That's not your job. You're not getting paid to police the ship, let her get up.

And then if someone wants to say something. But yeah, I think we've all been in that position where you've waited a little too long. You didn't account for something. Or maybe she doesn't know how long the turbulence is going to last. So she's like, I want to just go right now. get it over with so I'm not thinking about it the entire time. Yeah. I don't think she's going to like chill in the back. Yes. Yes. Yes. Um, so yeah, half and half. The first one, I think you were right. The second one, just get up quick, let her out, not your problem. What is your preferred seat? Window or aisle?

Oh, window. I like to sleep. I like window too. I also just feel like more secure in there. I'm like less exposed to like the elements of the aisle. Yeah, you get your elbows knocked. You have to keep like moving your feet in with the carts going by. I like to, I'm a big plane sleeper. Like people think it's crazy. Like before takeoff, I'm like, wow.

Curled up in my little ball with my head on the side. That's impressive. Sleep. Well, that's when I don't have kids with me. I love flying by myself. It's so nice. Just curl up and. Shluff away.

Yeah. So, yeah, I like a window seat. Same. And sometimes if I sit in the aisle, like, you realize it's kind of part of the job. You're going to have to get up. It's annoying. But, like, that's what you get for that extra bit of space on the side. On the side.

Yeah. It comes with the territory. You can't be like, I'm not moving if you're in an aisle. Let's do some intentions. Hi, Jordan and Dr. Naomi, thank you for giving us the gift of what we're sharing. my favorite podcast and I always feel more centered and grounded after listening. I love that. I'm writing in to ask for your help setting an intention as I navigate a more uncertain time in my life. I'm 30 years old and I recently quit my soul-sucking corporate job. After many months of feeling

burnt out, unhappy and unfulfilled, I decided to take some time off to reset mentally and figure out the next step in my career. For extra context, I have good savings, a strong resume, and a very supportive partner who I can lean on for support, all of which led me to my, make the decision to quit. I'm about two months into my break and I feel immensely better mentally and so much happier. I'm confident it was the right decision from a health and well-being perspective and I generally really enjoyed my time off. However, I'm still feeling a lot of anxiety around things like the pressure to choose the right role, silent judgment from others on being unemployed, the feeling that I'm not maximizing my time off, and stress around whether I'll be able to land a job

in a more challenging job market. I've heard many anecdotes like, I've applied to 200 jobs and I've landed one interview. Can you help me set an intention that will allow me to enjoy this time, feel confident in my decision to quit, and feel excited rather than anxious

around how the future will unfold. Thank you so much, sincerely, anxiously unemployed. Yeah, I think this is very relatable for people getting fired, losing your job, or quitting, or whatever. It's like this really weird, where it could be amazing and you can really enjoy some freedom that you're probably not going to have again. But somehow it feels really hard to just give yourself permission to do that. Yeah. Especially if you have like, I mean, in this case, she quit, but sometimes you get like laid off

and you get severance. So you like can take a minute to regroup. But it feels probably very uncomfortable for all the reason she listed. Yes. And it's interesting because I think, think it is part of like the human condition in a lot of ways that we and you it pops up in a lot of different different ways like that we almost need to keep whipping ourselves or like punishing ourselves or having like guilty thoughts in order to keep ourselves motivated um and you'll see this sometimes with like even with like eating issues or weight or body image or food stuff. It's almost like if you're okay with how your body looks, you're in a good rhythm and maybe we'll talk about this in a second. It's like I have to just keep stressing it. I have to like keep

it in my mind to make sure that I'm keeping my finger on the pulse of this so that I don't like completely let go or lose control. So I think she's struggling with that. perhaps, like, how do I make sure that I'm staying vigilant about like doing what I need to do, but also relaxing and enjoying my time? And it's like your mind is, that's where you live. You know, what you think about is your experience. So you can be laying on a beach or reading a book in bed with a cup of tea at 11 o'clock in the morning and doing something totally relaxing. But if your mind is telling you that that's not okay, then you're not enjoying it in that moment. Right. Well, how do you, I guess, how do you hold space for both for, you know, enjoying the time off?

But also like, yeah, you do have a future. How do you enjoy like, you know, whatever you're eating or doing right now, but also, you know, want to make sure you don't drop the ball or do. I think that's like sort of like you can reply that to so many situations. Totally. Yeah. I mean, one suggestion is to like create specific time to strategize and plan and, you know, do all of that thinking, productive thinking stuff. Like, okay, when I wake up in the morning, I'm going to, or whenever you want to do it, I'm going to write down my to do list for the day. And then I'm going to see which of these things on the day. And then I'm going to see which of these things on this list. Can I do now? If I'm not going to do it now, I'll schedule it. I'm going to do it at this

time. So you kind of know, like, cognitively, I have the plan. I have the strategy. I've done it intentionally. And it doesn't have to be this like constant ruminating thread throughout your day because you're doing it with intention of like, okay, I'm going to apply to jobs from two to four or whatever time you're going to do it, or this is when I'm going to check my email, or this is when I'm going to even sit down and just have a brainstorming session or whatever it is.

And then when you give yourself that time and you actually plan for that time, then you have to do the other piece, which is when it's not time for that and those thoughts pop in as they will, that's when you have to kind of be intentional about coming back to your, senses, the moment, I'm enjoying myself now, it's on the list, which is why I love lists.

Because it's like, put it on the list. I know it's on the list. Either it's time to actually be productive about the list or else I'm just spinning my wheels and like depleting my energy source by, you know, by just mentally ruminating about something. I'm just not enjoying whatever it is that I'm actually doing. Right. So then you're sort of like stressing twice when you could just stress once. Yes. And I get, you want to have a plan. Great. Have a plan. Write it down. Put it on a piece of paper. And when it's time to do it, do it. And when it's not time to do it, ask yourself, is this productive? Like this thinking that I'm doing right now, this ruminating that I'm doing as I'm like trying to enjoy my cup of coffee and my sleep in or whatever it is

that you can do now that you're unemployed. Is this productive? Is this helping? Or is this just, like creating a false sense of preparedness, constant preparedness and guilt. And most of the time it's the latter. That's a great point. I like that a lot. It's a good thing to keep in mind for any kind of thing that you ruminate about. Right. Just like there's a time for action and then there's a time to recognize that my thoughts are not,

like you're creating a false sense of control with your thoughts. Right. by thinking over and over and over again about the same thing. Yes. So do you have an intention that she can use when she's in those thoughts? Yes, I do. It's a little on the long side, but take from it, you could pull pieces of it if you want. But I wrote, similarly to what we're just talking about, I will be intentional in strategizing

and planning and then let go of the urge to control the outside world with my thoughts. I will trust my path to unfold as it should. So there's like a few pieces there. There's the intentional about strategizing. There's letting go of that urge to control, like that if I think about it, I'm controlling it somehow and then trusting that once you've, the part that helps you trust is the first part. I'm going to be intentional at times.

I'm going to do the best I can when it's time to do the best I can. that will allow you to relax, let go of those thoughts, and then ideally trust that you're doing everything you can. I like that. That's great. Anyone overthinking anything? Yeah. That's great.

Write it down. Get it out of your head and then, yeah, trust that it's out there and you don't have to hold it constantly in your mind. Yeah. All right. Well, good luck. Good luck. I'm sure you'll find a job.

And enjoy. No, there's so, like, if you can let yourself, she knows it too. Being unemployed is like can be really fun. You could do all the things that you never had time to do. You can meditate. You can exercise. You can sleep in. You can relax. You can volunteer. You could take up a hobby. You could do nothing. Walk aimlessly. Like so many things to enjoy. Well, what about that judgment piece? I think that's probably. a big one too of like I quit my job I don't have another job and I'm like enjoying myself maybe it's their judgment of herself that she's projecting onto others yeah that's quite possible um and I it's interesting because I do think we've talked about this before like a lot of people have this kind of martyr syndrome like that somehow if you're not miserable and like stressed out that you're not doing enough or you're like lazy right lazy yeah yeah whereas I kind of hope that she could shift that mindset to like the thing to be envious of or the thing to

desire is to be happy and relaxed. So that's almost like something to be proud of that you're unemployed, but you're like doing this. You're like, yeah, I've set aside time to look for a job. And then when I'm not doing that, I'm relaxed and I'm enjoying my time. And that's like something you should brag about and be happy about. I mean, I don't know about brag. But like, Right. Well, anyone who's judging you is probably just like jealous because they hate their job. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's one thing. I could see people judging and not even, but like if you're just like, yeah, I don't really want to work anymore. Like, I'm just going to, you know, I'm not doing anything about this. But if you know that you're actually doing what you can to try to find a job, you don't need to be miserable and stressed out to prove that to anybody. Right. Which I think happens a lot.

It's like we even, I mean, we can talk about this at another time, but there is so much of this culture of like, I need to be, we all, weird, we all want to be happy. That's kind of the goal of all of it. But there is this competition of like whoever's the most stressed out and kind of miserable, like wins the prize. And if somebody sees you, just like being. really relaxed and enjoying that somehow you're not doing enough, which is not cool.

Right. It's counterintuitive. Yeah. Which is interesting. Yeah, I guess it's like the culture, it's to bring it back to the beginning of the episode, it's the consumerist capitalist culture so that we just keep buying more shit. Yes. You just need to be more stressed out so that you have more money to buy more shit to then throw it away eventually. No, but it happens with couples, I think a lot, like in household stuff. Like, we've talked about this before. If your partner wants to go play golf for the day and you're at home, like, cleaning up the kitchen,

it's like, well, you're cleaning up the kitchen anyway. Or maybe you would be if he was there and he was cleaning up some of it or he was cleaning out the garage and you were cleaning out the kitchen, like just be happy for him that he's enjoying his day and playing golf. It doesn't have to be this thing of like whoever's had a worst day. wins like the trophy for the day.

Yeah. Assuming that he also cleans other things at different times. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Right. Or if you like same thing, you want to go for a spa day with your girlfriends or brunch with your girlfriends and he's going to stay home and like, you know,

clean out the garage. Like great. You should just be happy for you genuinely that you're getting to enjoy a day and not have this feeling of like, well, I win the award today because I had the worst day. Right. It's a good point. Good thing to keep in mind. Yes. for sure. All right. Let's do some triggers. Ready? Let's do it. I'm going to read our first one?

I will read this first one. Hi, Dr. Dana and Dr. Naomi, love the pod. In fact, I was listening to it when this triggered happened. For background, I work 10 to 12-hour shifts at the hospital. I find that after work, I'm exhausted, so it fits better in my day to go to the gym before my shift. Since I have to be at the hospital early, this involves me waking up at 4.30 a.m. and squeezing in a quick workout about 30 minutes. I'm really proud of myself that I've been able to maintain this schedule consistently for several years now. I find that also very impressive. That's me. Yeah. Lately, I've noticed a middle-aged man who arrives at the gym around the time that I leave. The first time we passed in the parking lot, he looked at me and said, done already in what I perceived to be a judgmental tone. I said back in a chipper

voice, that's right, and moved on. Immediately after turning away from him, I felt a lingering shame and anger about what he said. This morning, he said it again, the exact same phrase. This time I replied with, dude, really? I don't like that. And walked away. This man is obviously not in any physical condition to be giving workout advice, not that it would be okay if he was. I hate that I can't brush this off and that it brings my day to an unhappy start. Because I'm so triggered, I do think it's relevant for me to mention that I struggled with an eating disorder throughout all of college. It involved exercising for a minimum of one and a half to two hours a day, 365 days a year. It's been over 10 years now, and I'm so happy and proud of how far I've come with food, but also with exercise.

There was a time when I would have considered 30-minute workouts four to five days a week to be unacceptable. Now I feel happy and healthy living a balanced life that includes short workouts, rest days, and indulgences. Thank you for all you do and for giving me a safe place to share such a small thing that makes such big feelings triggered batch. I understand why she's triggered and I think she explains it quite well, but I don't think not knowing this about her, I don't feel like it's objectively that triggering. I think he's saying it because he's like, I think he's like, he feels weird, like he's gotten there late or something and he gets there like so early and he's like, oh, this person's like already

done. I'm so jealous. Right. Yeah. I don't think he's saying that to be like, shaving her that her workout was so quick. Like that would be like literally the last thing I think I would think of when he said that. Yes.

I agree. I think this is a perfect triggered in the sense that this is like there's something going on for her that she's aware of. I don't think it has anything to do with what this guy said. I think it is tough. You know, what I was just saying about like feeling the need to hold the thoughts, the guilt, the shame. The like mental punishment that we do to ourselves, that is one of the cornerstones of an eating disorder. And I think for her, it's not about the guy.

I think it's good for you to be mindful that that little beginning of that eating disorder mindset is just creeping back a little bit. And you can squash it. Like, swat it like a fly. you're aware that it's there you're aware that you're balanced you said you have a nice balanced lifestyle the fact that you wake up at 4.30 a.m. like amazing give you all the credit in the world four to five days a week keep you know you're doing the right thing for yourself and you've created balance but here's this trigger that's making you aware that this little creeping voice is coming back of like it's not enough we're not doing enough you better think about this more

more to make sure that you don't let go of control of this thing. You're going to hold it by ruminating on it. So I'm glad you wrote in because I think you need to become conscious that this is little. If you weren't aware of this and you were just like, oh, that guy's being a jerk and he made a comment and you weren't aware that this is coming from within you, I think it could grow. And that's sometimes what happens with these little eating disorder, body image voices that just kind of start as like something small. Like, oh, is 30 minutes enough? I don't think 30 minutes is enough.

Right. You better do more to make sure that. Yeah. When she was working out one and a half to two hours a day back in college, she was probably thinking that that wasn't even enough. Yes. So it's probably like that feeling. And like she's like, oh, I'm doing even less than that now. Totally. So I'm glad that this happened because you wrote in and now you're aware that there's just like this little irritating, buzzing, eating disorder voice that's starting to try to creep back into your head. And you have to just know that you've been doing great. It's been 10 years. You don't need this voice to keep you on track. Exactly what you're doing now is fine enough and more than enough.

Yeah. So I would say, again, validate that she feels triggered. She knows where it's coming from. objectively, I would say, again, if she didn't have this issue and someone told me this story, I would rank this like a three or four. Yeah, I would agree. I don't think the guy meant anything. He's probably just making chit. Honestly, anyone you see at the gym at 4.30 in the morning, like, we're cool because like, we're both here.

I'm just trying to find something to say about like two of you being there at the same time. Yes. Yes. Totally. he could have picked something nicer like, well, like so you should be proud of yourself or like way to go or, you know, something like that would have been nicer. But I think he's just, I think he's probably feeling insecure about like his, like that he's, again, like not as early as maybe he thought he should be. Yes. I mean, if he's getting there at five, he's probably like, whoa, I'm so proud of myself.

Like I'm working out at five. and here you are leaving done at five. Right. Or whatever it is. And he's like, you know, he probably has his own shame. Yeah, he probably has his own shame cycle that he's going through that he's telling you like, oh, wow, done already. You know. So yeah, I don't think this is him.

This is you. I get why it's triggering. But I, yeah, I would agree. I think a three. Great. All right. Let's do another one. Hi, Dr.

Nome. I have a triggered situation that I would like to hear. get your take on. I have a seven-month-old baby, and I've always had a pretty good relationship with my mother-in-law, but it has gotten a little strained since I had the baby. She's a very nervous and uptight person, and I'm pretty laid back and would say my parenting style falls somewhere in the middle. We have started introducing solids to our baby, and we are doing a combination of baby-led weaning, giving him some bigger pieces of food to learn to feed himself, as well as some pures. My husband and I have done a ton of research, bought books, and did a webinar about how to safely introduce

solids. She has made a few offhanded comments, and I can tell she wants us to feed him rice cereal and peaches from a jar instead of the salmon pieces and turkey meatballs that we've given him. Here's my triggered. She gave my husband a bag of clothes for our son, and this device to measure if something is a choking hazard was placed in the bottom of the bat. I've attached a photo, for reference, I was pretty insulted by this passive aggressive gesture, how triggered can I be? And then she attaches a picture of like a little like cylinder that you're supposed to put food in, I guess, to measure if it's, if it's too big that someone could choke on it. Yeah. But first of all, when I saw this cylinder, this cylinder, I'm pretty sure, is not for food. I think the cylinder is for like items, like a ball or like a toy or something. something that's not edible.

Like object. Right. It's object of, yeah, on the cylinder. Yeah, it's like about the size of, I don't know how, like a golf ball or something wouldn't fit in there, just not fit in there, I would say. Like that's approximately, I think, the size that it looks like it is. It's hard to tell because you're only seeing the picture. You're not really seeing anything to like scale, really.

Right. Yeah, you can kind of see her finger there at the bottom. What I think this is for is if you want to give your child a toy to play with, how big does the toy have to be so that they can't choke on it? Because it seems so obvious if you're going to give your kid a piece of salmon, it's going to fit in that container. Right. You're not going to give them a hunk of salmon that's as big as a golf ball. So I think that somehow the lines of communication are getting crossed. I think I don't know if the mom, if the mother-in-law thought that this was a food measuring device because I'm pretty sure it's not.

Well, she didn't even say anything. She just put it in the bag. So like, yeah. I have a hunch. And look, I get it. I was a new mom. Criticism is hard to take. I don't know what the comments were that she made about the peaches and the cereal.

And I definitely have been there with people making comments about what my kids should, babies should or shouldn't have eaten. So I get that. But either the mom has no idea what this device is or she does know what the device is and it's irrelevant to the food conversation. Because this, I'm pretty sure this device is not for food. I think this device is for like objects like toys that you might leave with them on attendant.

But might it be just as triggering if it was for toys because she's like, oh, she's still like paths. She doesn't think we can like handle this thing. An appropriate. She's like passively aggressively leaving the thing in the bag and not even like as a hint that like we might not know what we're doing. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Maybe less so than if it was a food thing. I don't know. Right. Yeah, I get it. I do think leaving it a random thing that we can't even quite figure out what it's for at the bottom of the bag is annoying because it's like either you have something to say that you're concerned about or not. Right. On the other hand, to defend the mother-in-law, and again, I validate that it would be annoying to have someone like critiquing what you're doing, right?

on the other hand, it sounds like the mother-in-law is a very anxious person. So she has all this anxiety about maybe she's laying up at night thinking about like the baby choking or the baby getting too much due to the baby not. Again, it's not her kid. So she doesn't have as much of a right to be that anxious about the baby. But let's say to give her like the best benefit of the doubt. She's extremely anxious. She thinks about the baby choking all the time. it's like an intrusive thought for her.

She knows when she brings it up to you, it gets a little tense and you don't like her. Yes. Any commentary or her saying anything. And so her solution is like, I'm just going to put it in the bag and like maybe they'll use it and it'll help me sleep better at night

and like I don't have to get, we don't have to discuss it. I don't have to talk to her about it. She doesn't have to get like angry at me. But like maybe they'll just see it and and use it and I can feel better. Yes. Yes. Look, I honestly,

I don't know if it's that I'm getting older, but I feel for the mother-in-law. I saw that Betch's moms, like, put out a question to their listeners, like, what's the most annoying? What do you wish you could say to your mother-in-law, but you'd never say? I don't know if you saw this, but the answers were, like, so harsh.

Like, stop buying ugly shit for my house and my kids. I was like, oof. I mean, that's people don't actually, that's why people don't actually say it. Right. But you might, I don't, I could see having that thought. I don't think that's a thought that's never crossed anyone's mind. Like another fucking ugly onesie that I have to pretend I love. I can see why someone would, would think that.

But like, yeah, is it mean? Yeah. Yeah. Look, and it is, you can't police people's thoughts. It's their thoughts and, you know, whatever. And I, but I'm just like, I feel for the. mother-in-laws too. Like they love, it's really a hard spot to be in. Like they love this baby so much, but they have like no control over very little control over what happens. What the baby's fed,

what, you know, they want to show love in a way, but they have to show love in a way that feels like within the boundaries of what the parents want. And like, it's just a very, it's a very different, It's a huge transition, I think, for a woman to go from like, I raised these children. I did basically whatever I wanted with them. I haven't done it in decades. I miss it. I'm so excited at the idea of doing it again. And now I'm like, I feel like I'm in like a prison where every little move I make is like upsetting

specifically to the mom. I think a lot of times. I think this happens more when you have. like a son. I feel like it's like you kind of there's a there's two complaints I hear from my friends with kids about their mother-in-law is like one is that they're like overbearing and too many thoughts and do all this stuff. And then the other is almost like the opposite. It's like they don't even help with the kids. They're never like around when they come. They're like don't even like they're just not like they don't want to like watch them. They don't want to babysit. So it does feel like it's hard

to find the right balance. Yes. How in your shape. you want someone to be yes yes totally it's just it's a really hard spot and look when i was a mom of littler kids i definitely i got that feeling of like having those moments of irritation and like not wanting so much input and feeling like the input was a criticism like that's how it feels right um but i i don't think it is i think like you said, if you really sit back, it's just that they really love this little baby. And they, it's so, it's hard enough as a parent to love this baby and be able to make all the decisions. But I can't imagine how hard it is to love this baby and have like none of the

decision making power or be able to control any of the things that just particularly make you anxious. Like choking might be a thing that just like makes her anxious for some reason. but she can't do anything about that except for stick this thing in the bottom of a bag. Which is maybe why some parents go like the complete opposite route and they're like, I'm not going to like at all be on top of you or I'm not at all going to like give any input here, but I'm also not really going to be helping you.

Right. Because I'm not even going to learn how to puree the foods and the style that you want. Right. Which is maybe why you're seeing that with your friends where it's like, it's very hard to be like, I care a lot. My whole identity is wrapped up in being this grandma. Yeah.

But then I'm like handcuffed. So that feels really hard. So then you're like, all right, I'm just going to kind of hands off. I'll enjoy, but I'm not going to like wrap my identity up in being a grandma of this kid because I can't really do it the way that I would do it. Right. So I'm just going to back off completely. It really does seem hard to straddle the,

straddle the line of like I care a lot but I have no control. That sounds really hard. Yeah. No, I agree with that. So justice for mother-in-laws. I think, like as all triggers are, if she feels really strongly about it, I think it comes from a fear that she's doing something wrong or that she is not, you know, doing enough to make sure the solids journey is going exactly as she planned. Yes.

And so I think it's a little bit more about her. her again i don't know what it's like to have someone who's like giving you a lot of commentary you do so maybe you maybe you could take the lead on how triggering this one would be yes i could i definitely can see this being triggering but i do think you can come back to you said you've read books you took a webinar like you're giving him little pieces of salmon and i'm sure tiny little bits of meatball like he's fine if this is if she's putting this thing in the in the bag you're you have to just kind of say to yourself, this is a her thing. Like I feel really good about what I'm doing.

So like just trying not to let it upset you because of the fact that you know that you've done your it's almost like what we talked about. I've planned. I've strategized. I've done my research. I've like done all the cognitive bits that feel relevant and productive. Right. And now I'm going to relax even if she throws this little thing in the bag, which is honestly

ridiculous because I'm pretty sure it's not for food. It's for choking hazard objects. But anyway. Yeah. And you could just say next time she says something, thanks so much. I'll keep that in mind. Right. That's what I say to my mother-in-law, honestly. Like when she's, they came over yesterday to see the house, which is great. Again, I love my in-laws. But, you know, when my mother-in-law is there, she's like, oh, you should, you could, should clean the sink with this, with this cleanser that works the best. Or you should do this. Like you should buy this brand of whatever it is. Right. And I just say, oh, thanks. Like, text it to me.

Yes. And then you can use it or you cannot. Yes. Totally. That being said, I do get, this is, it sounds like it's her first baby. It probably is making her a little bit anxious because there are different schools of thought on like what to do with solids. And so I get that any type of criticism, especially in this way, is triggering. but I think you could just rest in that you've done your research and try not to let this bug you.

Maybe she did mean for it for like objects and she happened to see it at her. I don't know where she would find that. Maybe she did order it on Amazon, which is kind of annoying. Maybe she just has one for herself. In case I want to hang out in the playpen with a ball. You never know. Yeah, I get that it's annoying when you're trying to learn how to be a mom for the first time to have this. But yeah, I'll give this a four.

All right. That seems nice. That seems generous of you. Yeah. I think in the scheme of what we've gotten on here in terms of triggering, she got this little device. She threw it in the bag. It could be related to the food. It could be completely unrelated to the food.

Yeah. I think it's nice that she threw it in the bag so you don't have to do it. talk to her about it. If you want, you could toss it in the garbage. Like, if you really like... Don't care about it. It's passive-aggressively given to you. It could be passive-aggressively discarded if you truly want. But if not, again, might come in handy every now and then. Yeah. Yeah. It might come in handy if like, you know, somebody gives you something at a birthday party and you're like, I don't know if I can leave him alone with this.

Throw it in the cylinder. We'll find out. Love it. All right. I think that's... It's it. Great times. Great, great, great issues solved. We'll be back next week. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Rebecca Steinberg. Editing by Will Maxwell. Guest booking by Allie Friedlander. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and everything's fine. And send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.