Oversharing - My Mother-In-Law Won’t Respect My Boundaries

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Jordana vents to Dr. Naomi about something her therapist did in her last session. Our Overshare email comes from a Betch dealing with the relationship between her brother and her bestie. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a new mom who wants her gifting boundaries respected. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for a listener to help her stay on track with her healthcare journey and not let up when she hits her goals. And we’re feeling triggered by stolen last names and even more boundary-pushing therapists. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going?

I'm very excited to chat this morning. I have a lot of thoughts. All right. Let's get right into it. What's going on? So I had a kind of. triggering moment with my therapist that I wanted your take on. Let's do it.

Okay. So I'm in my therapy session. I want to say last, whatever, like last week or a couple weeks ago. And I'm talking about like, we're talking about this funny because we've talked about this on the episode like the psychology of money and like thoughts around spending and like telling him how I get really anxious when I'm when I like spend money, like any amount of money. Or some reason, it just gives me anxiety. And we're talking about this.

And he's like giving some helpful tips. whatever. And then he's like, on that note, I have to tell you, like, my rates are going Oh my gosh. He's like, my rates are going up. And you've been, you know, you've been getting like the discounted rate. But like, I'm like, is this supposed to be like a present for me to like figure out how to get over spending money? My gift to you is I will challenge you in this way. You can give me more money. So he says his rates are going up. I'm like, okay. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm getting the discounted rate. Like my rate's like pretty high.

He's like, yeah, you've been getting the discounted rate. Like, did you not know that? I'm like, I don't remember discussing that this was the discounted rate. I thought it was like on the higher end of the rates. But whatever. I'm like, fine. He's like, you know, I only seem like once a month. And I have, I do have insurance that covers like 80% of the thing.

So it's really not, it's not about the money. It's more about the principle because so we, whatever. I agree to the rate moving. I thought, I thought that was moving forward. I agree to the rate. All right. What was the percentage increase just out of curiosity? Like, give it to me.

Let me see. 25% increase. Oh, okay. 25% increase. So whatever, I get off. And then the next few days, I notice he charges my card the new price.

And I'm like now annoyed because now I'm thinking about it. And again, if you're listening, I don't think he listens to my podcast, but if you are, he's a great therapist. I've been with him on and off for like eight years. generally really good experience with him helped me tremendously with a lot of different issues

in my life. Right. But now I'm annoyed. Right. Because I'm like, I don't think you should increase the price for the session that I'm currently on. I should have the choice to whether or not to see you with the new price. I don't think it should be like I'm already, I'm already in the new price without my consent. Yes. And I told you that this has happened to me before with like, when I used to see a therapist that took insurance, she told me on one of the visits that she no longer took my insurance. And that one I had to pay for out of pocket. Right. Which I think should have been told to me before the session so that I could decide if I still

wanted to do the session. Totally. I agree. And I think even unless, and he's already booked you for the session and you're already in the session. So if you were like, I don't agree to this. This is too much for me. I don't really want to pay this.

You're going to be like, okay, bye. Right. like end of five-year relationship that you guys have in therapy because eight-year relationship that you guys have in therapy, we're going to end it right here because you've decided that you don't agree to the rate increase. I do agree that it should have been starting on the next session rather than that very session. He probably was just doing it to like keep his books clean and like, okay, she agreed. I'm going to put it in. But he definitely could have started it the following week after you agreed to it. It's not about the money to me.

me. I mean, a little bit, I guess, maybe. But like, it's much more about, I think, the, the principle of it. And I think, again, having this longstanding relationship. First of all, like, it's probably very pleasant to talk to me. People live. I'm lovely. I'm lovely. I'm sure it's not. I'm like, are you trying to get rid of me by this price increase? It's funny, all the psychological, like, the psychological thoughts that, that come up from this kind of thing. And then I'm like, well, I'm not going to see him anymore. Like, that'll show him. Right. When really, like, I should see him just to, but now I'm like, now I have to spend 15 minutes of my next session that is very expensive telling you about why you've annoyed me by doing this. Yes. I agree. But that is sort of practice. I think it is good practice to

have that type of confrontation and really like be genuine in the room with someone that you have a very genuine relationship with where you're talking about all of your most intimate feelings for you to say this is how I felt and I can imagine that it feels you know it's it's a sticky situation because your third part of life is money there's so much to that in terms of what your stressors are and what is going on in your life so he has intimate knowledge about like your financial situation and then it feels kind of like now you're increasing the rates would you have done that I mean, maybe it's a new year thing and he does it every year. I don't know.

I guess that's possible. But if it's sort of like, oh, well, you know that like these things are going on in my life and I just bought a house and blah, blah, blah. And like, maybe you think that I have, you know, I'm sure those thoughts can enter. I'm sure they did. Right. And again, I think like, I also think it should have been separated from the discussion about money.

I just feel like to like weave it in in a moment where I'm like talking about that I think was like a little poor choice of of timing around it. Yes. It's very, it's very true. It is the hardest part, one of the hardest parts about being a therapist is that you genuinely care for your patients.

And I think about my patients in between sessions. I care about what's going on in their life, just the same way that I do about a friend or a family member that's told me something that, they're uncomfortable or they're going through grief, but it's very different because I wouldn't be seeing that person if they weren't paying me. So it really, it's like this kind of weird space where it's like, yes, this is a patient, a doctor-patient relationship. This is not just like a friendship where I'm going to listen to you no matter what. And if you said, I am going to go try to find a therapist

that's a little bit less expensive. It's tough because now you're in a position where you have to start your whole story all over. You don't, this person doesn't know you. You don't know them. So it's almost like there is this power dynamic there where it's like, I'm the only one that has all this background information about you. And so it can feel kind of like I, I have a lot to lose by saying this price doesn't work for me.

And you're saying it's not about the money. But for some people, it might be about the money. Yeah. And then you have to kind of make that choice where you kind of say like, is it stressful enough to have to start over, a, find someone new, tell my whole story all over again to not pay the extra,

whatever it is, $25 a week or whatever they're charging. Well, it also kind of makes me think about like, all right, how much am I even getting out of these sessions? Right. At this point in my life. Right?

At this point of my life, I'm like, because again, there was a time I used to see him every week in the beginning where again, I think this is not to say he's not a great therapist. I think he's done wonders for me. But at this point in my life, I don't know.

Now I'm kind of like, for that price, that does seem kind of expensive to talk to you for an hour. Right. Even no matter how much money I have. Yes. Yes. And there, you know, sometimes there might be something nice about starting over. If something like this happens to any of our listeners and you're like, this price is going up, which just personally, I really try not to do that.

maybe if I've been seeing someone for many, many years and they're paying like a super low rate, I might raise it a little bit. But I try not to do that because I'm aware that it puts someone in this type of position where you have to throw away all these years of history if it doesn't work for the person. And I do take their financial situation into account. If I know someone's financially strapped, then that's a huge part of what's going on for them. I'm probably going to be less likely to say, hey, let's increase your rates. Well, that's the thing because it's like, okay, you know that I'm no long. You know, he started seeing me when I was 26 years old.

Right. He knows I make, and the rate has increased. The rate has increased marginally since I've been that age. So it's not like, oh, he hasn't increased the rate since I've been 26 and now I'm 34. And I'm like, my financial situation has changed. But I do think, like, I don't like the idea of like me telling you information about myself and it being used against me negatively. Right.

Right. It's true. It's almost like it makes sense in the one direction of like if you know that the person likes, you know, as a therapist, you're supposed to do a couple of like pro bono sessions, you know, and when we take ethics classes, that's kind of part of what, and I think it's the same thing for attorneys. Like you're supposed to be helping out the community. And so if you have a patient that can't afford, you know, instead of maybe doing it completely pro bono, maybe you would just keep the rate the same, even though cost of living and inflation and all that has gone up because you. You know, instead of maybe doing it completely pro bono, maybe you would just keep the rate the same, even though cost of living and inflation and all that has gone up because. Because you. You know, you know that they can't do it, but I get the feeling that it's being raised just because they can really doesn't feel good. So, yeah, I totally get that and I see how it could make you feel that way. But what I was going to say is I think that if this happens to you and it does feel like this is too much, instead of, you know, strapping yourself to continue to see this therapist, I think there is something nice sometimes about starting fresh with someone new. if you've been seeing them for eight years.

Yeah. New perspective. You're a different person and a different place in your life. And you can meet someone and start from where you're at instead of maybe starting from where you were eight years ago. So I don't think it's the worst thing. There's a little bit of work that goes into giving the background and the history, but you might even tell your story with a different mindset now that you're looking back on it.

So it's not the worst thing. Yeah. It'll rue the day. Sorry. And I'll talk about my, my vindictive tendencies with the new therapist. Very true. Well, I do think you should, I think you should say all of this to him and see. And just, you know, express yourself.

Like, I know that you know kind of my financial situation has changed. And I wonder if that's part of that or whatever. I'm afraid that's part of this or I feel like that's part of this or just express whatever you have. That's the beauty of the therapist is you get to have a nice calm conversation about whatever you want and they have to communicate really rationally and calmly and listen and validate and do all that. Well, here's the other thing is he sees a friend of mine and I know he charges them less. I asked her and she charges and she said he charges her less than my previous discounted rate. So now I'm like especially annoyed. Okay. Yeah. So you guys really had the talk.

Like I'm not sure if I was supposed to like do that, but I'm also like this friend doesn't need any help. Right. Right. Right, right. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, that's a different kind of changes things because he's telling you you're getting a discount, but then someone else is getting even less than you. Right. So, I don't know. And the whole thing just like irritated me. But maybe I'll talk to him next month or maybe I'll cancel. We'll see. Yeah. And that's that's what tends to happen. Right. Like I would I would urge you not to cancel because I think what happens is like you get annoyed and then that's like this kind of. of passive aggressive communication of you being annoyed. I also get you don't want to pay whatever this increased rate is that he's charging just to tell him that you're pissed off about the increased rate that you're charging. And then by the time the session's halfway through, you're like, I didn't even get to talk about anything.

Exactly. Although I guess maybe that would be helped. Again, maybe that's more helpful in terms of like confrontation and like learning how to express my irritation with someone. Maybe that's like the real more of the lesson than the thing about. the money. And again, I don't, I think he'd be like, I'll give you the, I'll give you the $80 back. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, or I think if you don't want, it's, I'm saying it's not about that. Yeah. I, I totally. I agree. I think there's a lesson to be learned here. I could see why this

feels sort of triggering, especially when you're going in there talking about how spending money gives me anxiety. Right. Right. And I can imagine this time of year is hard. You have a house and then there's like, You're supposed to tip like the garbage people and you're supposed to tip the mailman. And you're, you know, or, you know, you have to give holiday gifts to all these people. I guess you lived in an apartment. So you probably had some of that there too. But I have. And I just, there's definitely a lot more expenses with a house.

And it, but again, like I understand. I am trying to be, I'm trying to be less uptight about this, the situation. So it's funny because like, this isn't like helping, but maybe it is. I don't know. He's, I guess, I mean, I don't think he's doing it on purpose. I think he's doing it because he wants his extra $85 or whatever it is. But it can help you kind of be like, okay, I'm going to breathe through this. And I'm going to evaluate if this is something that's, just because you have more money,

it doesn't mean that you have to be totally just buying everything, like paying mindlessly for everything. But it is an evaluation process. And it's something worth exploring. So yeah, he's giving you the gift of being, making you uncomfortable. so that you have to breathe into it and calmly evaluate. And I think the gift could have been given with the next session. And I would have felt fine about it.

Yeah. If he had mentioned this at the end of the session after we were talking about something else and then he said starting next session, this is my rate. I wouldn't have, I would have been like fair again. It's been, it's not, I understand. I might be a little annoyed again because it would feel like he's changing. it based on something else. But I think this was especially irritating. Yeah, I'm sorry. It's okay. Keep me posted. Whether you decide to go back or you just flake. Yeah. I'm going to,

I'm going to figure it out. Because, you know, I mean, I'm sure, I mean, I don't know if you have your own therapist or how it works with any of your patients. Do you ever, sometimes I'm like, it's the day before I'm supposed to see the therapist and I see him once a month. And I'm like, there's nothing that I feel like, I really want to talk about. Yeah. And then I'm kind of like, should I go in and then pay for this thing, which I don't really feel as helpful. But sometimes you wind up talking about something when you didn't want to.

Like, what do you suggest in those scenarios? Totally. I mean, I think sometimes the best sessions are when you're not like worked up about some event happening in your life because then you end up just talking about like the event that happened in your life, which I think people love therapy for. that they want to like yeah it's like a crisis yeah right some thing but really the work is done when you're not putting out fires and you're just sort of like exploring bigger picture stuff like the identity thing i got a huge response on that at the end of the last maybe the last week or

the week before i talked about like identity exploration and how i have this group where we do identity exploration and so many people reached out like you know i'm not sure like my identity and so many different things, like my sexual identity, my career identity, my identity as a woman or whatever. So many, but you're not going to get to diving into your identity, you know, exploration. If you're like, my husband is so annoying and he said this thing or my mom came over and you're just going to talk about that. So sometimes I think not having anything to talk about is when you get to the best kind of stuff.

So that's true. I wouldn't recommend canceling when you don't have anything to talk about. I find that I have people that show up and they're like, I don't really have anything going on today. And that's how they are, that's how the session starts. And it usually ends up with some good stuff. So that's my feeling on that. Good to know. Yeah.

I'll keep it posted. Let's get into our episode. There's more people with issues with their therapist, but that's towards the end. Okay. Let's get into our overshare, which is actually a voicemail. let's roll the tape. Thanks, Ronana and Dr. Naomi. Thanks for all the awesome advice.

I'm calling from Canada today to get your advice on a situation that has been bugging me for over a year now. My very best friend since childhood recently started dating my brother, and I know you guys have brothers, so hopefully you can understand. And we actually have other

friends who are in the same situation, crazy enough, but it has been one of the hardest things I have gone through is trying to navigate this relationship and I know it's not just hard for me. It's hard for my best friend and my brother and even my parents and my friends too. So any advice you guys could give me would be appreciated. But basically, it's just been very weird and difficult and I definitely feel jealous and even the trade. I know this maybe isn't understandable, but to an extent I guess I feel like she chose him over me. And I know that we don't choose

be loved, but I've just found it really hard, I guess, to stay friends throughout all this. It's just been really weird and difficult, so I actually told her recently that I would like some space because I don't... What happens, them dating

has changed our friendship so much that we don't really have a friendship anymore, and so I recently told her that in the spirit of someday wanting to have her as a sister-in-law, I think that I need some space in time. and distance. So we now haven't talked in about a year and obviously that's difficult and

honestly just really sad. I really miss her and I know like I said it's hard for everyone involved. So if you could get any advice on how fixing or if I even have to fix things, everyone in my life has told me that I should expect it and yet somehow I can't seem to. So if you can help me out at all, I would love that. Thanks again for all you guys. do. Bye. Okay. Yes. Surprisingly, with all eight of our siblings,

we've never really had this particular situation. And there's a mixture of boys and girls, but we've never really had this. She doesn't say exactly what's bothering her, except the only little nugget that she gives is that she feels jealous and like the friend chose the brother over her. Yeah. I could say,

I mean, have any of your, patients, clients ever had this issue? Yeah, I've had things like this, but usually the biggest issue is like if they date and then they break up, right? That's like the big risky thing. Like we dated, now we broke up, now it's awkward, we can't be, we used to all have dinners together, we used to all do these things together, and now it's uncomfortable. That's like more of the thing that I think happens is like what if you break up?

but this sounds like it's heading towards marriage. Yeah, I mean, if they haven't spoken for a year, you would imagine they're still together. Right. I think maybe it's like a, it's a twofold thing of one. It's like, okay, the best friend was like her best friend. And now she kind of like is in a more serious, more meaningful relationship with her brother. On top of that, maybe the feelings of resentment you get from your best friend dating anyone.

and feeling a little bit left behind, but then coupled with like, I don't know what her relationship with her brother was like, maybe not the best. Like if she's feeling jealous, I feel like there might be some sort of like rivalry something issue with the brother. Right.

It seems like there's a few different things at play. Yeah. And I would venture to guess also that the relationship with the brother doesn't have amazing communication because I think if they were communicating this wouldn't probably feel quite as bad to the point where they literally can't even have a relationship anymore.

Unfortunately, if they've been together a year and it looks like she's talking about one day sister-in-law kind of thing, and I don't blame her and I get it and I think many people would feel the same way in this situation. Like we even talked about, you know, you're single with someone and then they start dating someone and you feel left behind or your roommate starts dating someone or whatever and you feel left behind, that is going to create these types of feelings, let alone now it's my brother. So like when you guys are together, like I have neither one of you to kind of go to or hang out with or and like you've, I guess maybe there's an element of like even though they're not broken up,

there's an element of like you've risked the friendship. Yes. That's what I heard. I heard more like what I think may have happened. And this is a hunch and I could be wrong. That in the beginning, in the very beginning when they first started, that the listener was sort of like, you're willing to like put our friendship at risk to pursue my brother. The whole like what I was saying before. What if it doesn't work out?

like how is that going to affect us? And she was like, I'm doing it anyway, which was where the whole like you can't control who you love kind of thing. And then the roommate got like in tunnel. I'm not sorry, the roommate, the listener got kind of in tunnel vision about this thing. Like I don't like this. It feels like you're choosing him over me. And she kind of dug her heels in her position there.

And now she's like holding the line on like, I'm like, I've said I don't like this. It risks my friendship with you. I probably was getting used to the idea that my best friend was dating anyone when we were single together. She doesn't say. Does she say if she was, if she's in a relationship?

She doesn't say. So like maybe that's part of it too. And I think she dug her heels in. She took a position. And now she's has, it's almost like what we talked about many, many months ago. Like you've said you're mad about something. And now you kind of have to like figure out a way to not be mad anymore without it

being like, okay, I'm ready to like not be mad anymore. Right. You know, like so I think she doesn't play out the way that she thought was going to play out. Yes. Her being mad, I think she thought she was going to control the situation, get the roommate to say, look, it's not worth it. I'm not going to pursue your brother.

I love you. I don't want to do anything to risk our friendship. Now they're both out. They're single again. Everything works out the way she wants it. The friend. Friend, yeah. Defies her.

Dates the brother anyway, which feels kind of like I have no control over you. you don't value my feelings here. You're disregarding my feelings. You're going for it anyway. That makes her more mad, digs her heels in even more. And I think now you're writing in, perhaps you're ready to like release your position and say,

okay, I'm going to accept this. Let's all hang out. Actually, I think it's really fun. Like I think there's a lot of people out there, listeners out there, I think it would be really cool for my best friend and my brother to get married. because then like you're my sister. You get to come to all the family stuff

and thanksgivings and Christmas and. Yeah. Maybe she's like a little embarrassed now at this point also where it's like to say, and I think that happens a lot of these times with these garages and they last longer than they should because it's like a little embarrassing now to almost be, it's almost embarrassing to like go back and be friends with both of them.

And then it's like, oh, you just had this like complete overreaction for a year and she probably feels weird and they probably are like yeah you acted kind of great like I don't know I can see why it would be embarrassing for her to go back and I think a lot of people even outside of this situation will kind of hold the line because they don't want to humble themselves to say okay I overreacted I played my I didn't my my hand didn't play out the way it wanted to I thought I was going to throw myself and you were going to back. off. That didn't work out. And so I had no choice but to like stay the course. So and this is, this can be for anything that you get angry about because that's just your visceral reaction. And then

it's okay to say, you know what? I was triggered. This was my reaction. These were my fears. That's why I think the communication is important. I realized that you guys, I was afraid that maybe this wasn't going to work out and it was going to affect our relationship, all three of us. And I was jealous. And I was jealous. Yes. Totally.

But I'm willing, I would love to like put it behind us and move on as a family and welcome this, you know, it could be a really fun thing. So I think, and if you can't get yourself to the place where you're happy for them, then I think there might be some exploration for you to do in terms of like what's missing from your life that's making you still feel jealous. Like, do you need other friends? Do you need, you know, maybe you want to pursue dating or, you know, a really close, like intimate relationship with

somebody that is not the best friend or the brother? But I get that it's hard. Once you take in a stand and it's for anyone out there, it's okay to say, okay. I was wrong. Right. I think you see this a lot, I'm sure with like step parents and kids. Mm-hmm. Or maybe you're sort of like attached to the idea of not liking them. And then you get a little older or they're around a little longer and maybe you don't really mind as much or it's not as like painful as it was in the beginning. But there's a feeling of like, well, I've already kind of like said what I think and now I kind

of like need to reinforce my own beliefs. Yes. And that's why I think sometimes it takes kids like years to, warm up to a step parent. It's a great example. And I think I had this too with my own stepmother, which was like I was rebelling like in my tween years, teen years. I was like rebelling hard. And then eventually I was like, okay, this person's here to stay. Like I need to just let go of this. But it feels embarrassing to go from like one day to the next. Right. Like I was a bitch to you yesterday and now I'm just going to be nice and it could take months to kind of be like okay fine like

one day I'll let you you know whatever it is like I'll say that thank you for the dinner it was delicious and then you know six months later I can give you a hug you know what like you can it takes this time to kind of undo this stance that you took on something so hopefully you can it's a little more acceptable when it's kids yes versus this situation so I think in this situation she's going to have to like have a real conversation about it she can't just be like are you guys coming to are you guys coming to christmas right exactly yeah i would just it's real maturity that is maturity i know it feels like shameful it feels embarrassing and you're it's not like your feelings like you did something crazy like you punched her or you like

you know you just were distant and cold and it took you some time to get used to it and i think you can come back at any time say can we talk and talk and talk It's rock it out. Yeah, life is short. It kind of reminds me of that there's like this one clip from the office from Angela where she's like, she goes like, my sister and I, I haven't spoken her in six years. Why? I don't even remember. So like, yeah, I'm that good. Right. Right. It's true. Who's the crazy person? Right. Totally. So don't wait six years. Just say I'm, I'm ready. It's so it really is a hard thing to do to be like I was I was having a fit and I'm ready to not be having my fit anymore can we just like because there is a risk that they're like you made our lives miserable for the last

year or like I guess there is a risk that they're going to be angry about how she handled it and she just asked for space and now she's saying I don't want space and you're like am I the crazy person it's like no it's okay you're mature for being for humbling yourself and saying let's do this it's happening whether you like it or not so you might as well accept it yeah and And I, because here's the thing she's like, you know, she's almost created the thing that she was trying to avoid, which is losing the friendship. She's already like done it and there's no real reason for it. Yes. It's 100% true.

So breathe. It'll be fun. If you can get through this, you're going to have everybody. You need to, you know, it'll be, I think it could be great if you can embrace it. Let's do a betchaist. I will read it. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I love the pod and listen every week. Thanks for all that you do. I'm looking for advice and how to handle

gifting and grandparents, specifically my mother-in-law. For my husband and I's birthday slash the holidays, she usually asked what we want in a certain price range and we either send her a link or she sends us money to buy it. Now that we have a baby, she's acting differently. We put together a list of items for our daughter's first holiday that we circulated to family members, which has items across a variety of price points and categories. She didn't respond when we sent it and when we found. And when we followed up, she was non-committal. A few weeks later, she said she wanted to get our daughter an item that is not on the list, and we politely but firmly said we'd appreciate if she could just use the list and suggested an item that was in the same spirit as what she suggested. She said she'd think

about it, but ultimately told my husband she wasn't sure about it. Instead, she sent a completely different item that was not on the list. Again, not one we asked for or need. It's clear she is an issue with the list, and I'm not sure how to handle it. Do we just say thank you and donate the gift, which could become problematic as our daughter gets older. Should we reiterate that we appreciate the thought but really prefer items from the list, which might make her dig her heels in more? Does this type of behavior come from a place of control? I understand that it might feel controlling on her end that we're suggesting gifts, but we are trying to be intentional with the items we're accruing for our baby, both in terms of managing quantity and researching the optimal options for her.

I also want to feel like my boundaries as a parent are being respected. Ultimately, my question is, Is this a battle worth fighting or do I just accept this is how she is and move on? Sincerely an ungrateful daughter-in-law. I've kind of, I see both sides of this. I've been on the side where I'm sort of like we have so much stuff. We don't need more like random stuff. I know my child won't like that or I don't think it's, you know, like I don't, you know, I don't want plastic toys and this is a plastic toy.

I'd rather be a wooden toy or whatever the thing is. I get, I think this is a battle between her and the mother-in-law over like control. I think this listener wants control over her mother-in-law's kind of influence on her child's life. And she wants to set this list as a way of setting a boundary of like, I will pick, I know her best, I know what we need, I know my child, and these are the things that we would like, personally, probably being, you know, 11 years down the road from her and also being a therapist and seeing both sides, I would let this go and realize that I think the mother-in-law wants to bond with the baby and she wants to buy her something that probably feels in some way

meaningful to her like she chose it. If she wanted you to choose the toy, she would just send you money and then you could pick the toy, which doesn't feel personal. It doesn't feel like she's bonding. I felt like this before when people give out lists, people that are close. If it's a distant person, I'm like, okay, tell me what you want and I'll get it for you. Right. But if it's someone I want to feel really close to, it's like, I want to buy you something. I want to give you something meaningful, you know, that like I picked for you that I can,

gift giving is a little bit selfish. It's kind of like, I want to enjoy you picking this thing and then, seeing you enjoy this thing that I picked because then it makes me feel good that I know you well or I made you happy versus like your mom knows you. She made you happy and I just gave her the money for it. Right. I agree. I think the person who's writing in is being a little annoying. Like it's a gift. It's not like and because it's a gift, a gift can be whatever the person who's giving the gift wants it to be. And you kind of have to deal with that. It's not like, again, if it was if it was like she owes you money and she gave you the gift instead of the money, that would be like one thing. The essence

of a gift is that the person who's giving the gift gets to decide what the gift is. And maybe it's not your preference and maybe it's not useful and maybe you don't like the gift. But one, the gift isn't really for you. She doesn't say what the gift is. So like I don't know how terrible it is that she feels like she needs to donate it. And again, it's like, so the baby is not going to be like, that's mine. Right, right. Exactly. But. I think it's kind of like this, I agree with you. It's totally about the sense of control. She's like, for both of them.

Because she said in the past when it's a gift for her or the husband, she will just give them the gift or give them money, which I agree is kind of weird to get money to buy your own gift. It just takes the connection out of it. Like I, I'm trying to know you. I'm trying to like think about what you might like, buy you for it. And then enjoy watching you enjoy this thing that I picked for you. is very different than like you pick this and then I send you money for it, which is nice,

but then you might as well just not put a gift into it. You might as well just send money if you're going to pick your own gift and then send the money for it. I totally agree. A lot of people do this. I don't agree with it. I understand it's more like efficient in terms of people who don't like, you know, when I first started dating Mike, like he had for Christmas like he's like, I'm supposed to create a list of things.

I'm like, I don't feel comfortable sending your parents a list of shit that I want. Yes. Like that feels uncomfortable to me. I agree with that. And yeah, the other side of that is that if you don't do that, then someone gets you something and you're like, I don't really like this. But whatever.

I mean, isn't that the whole point? Right. Like you said. I was going to say, especially for like the grandma and the baby, you, I think the next, you know, God willing, 50 years of your child's life are going. to be much better and more peaceful if you can encourage the bond, you know, them making a bond together, the grandma and the baby. That's what she's trying to do. And that's why she's rebelling against this list because she wants to bond with her grandchild and she wants to choose something

that she thinks would be great. I kind of agree that it feels nice to pick something out for somebody buying something like that they're telling you to buy. It just doesn't feel like it's the same connection. Like when we went to your house for housewarming, like I probably could have gotten you a gift card to like whatever, crate and barrel. We did this ridiculous when we came to visit and we went to the beach, which I actually think was kind of cute. I don't know if you still have it in there. We went to the beach and picked up these like the kids picked rocks off the beach and we like made this little like rock balancing statue out of rock. Right. Zen.

But like it was meaningful. It was like your new neighborhood, your new area, you live kind of near the beach. And like I felt really good about that as opposed to just like giving you a gift card for you to go pick something. It felt like it was a moment that we shared, you know, kind of bonding. And now you have it in your house and you can look at it and maybe like remember the moment or remember us or versus like. oh, I have this card in my wallet and in six months I'm going to take it out and use it or Right. Use it on like some mascara or something.

Right. Right. It just doesn't. So I think what's happening here is the, and I have this, you know, I have thankfully a wonderful, loving, doting grandmother for my kids and she just wants to bond with them. And she buys them so much stuff. And in the beginning, I was kind of rebelling against it because I'm like, please stop buying them things. We have so many things. And I get it. If she was buying you like a life size pony that then

you had to have in your living room or your toy room that took up the whole thing. I could see that being annoying. It's like this is taking up a lot of space. It's like kind of impeding our lifestyle here. But if she wants to buy a spinny boppy instead of a teething boppy, whatever it is, like I think she's just trying to bond with the baby. And God willing, she'll be. trying to do that for many years. And it is wonderful for children to feel love and connection to other people besides their parents. And that's what I think a lot of new moms struggle with because they want to bond with their child. And sometimes they don't realize that it is really wonderful and beautiful and amazing for the grandparents to bond. And she's trying to bond through this gift.

Right. Agreed. And by trying to control the gift, I feel like she's making it about her. Mm-hmm. Like it's not about what I said I wanted on the list. And it's like, it's like you said, it's a power struggle. And I think it's like a little rude because a gift is, the point of a gift is that it's from someone else and you get to pick it. It's a moment of connection. I think it almost takes out of the spirit of giving and gifting from the holidays.

We're like, this is about people trying to connect and sit and watch someone open up something that you chose for them. I think she needs to get more in touch with her heart and more away from her head, which is like efficiency and, you know, I get it. As a new mom, you're kind of like, I did the research and this is the best toy and these are the right things and these are not the right things and these are the things we don't need. Get in touch with your heart. Your mother-in-law is trying to create a connection with your baby through this gift. Let that happen. Enjoy it.

Enjoy your let go and enjoy watching your mother-in-law. enjoy her grandchild. One day, that's going to be you. And you're going to want to pick out a toy for your grandchild. I know people don't think about that. I'm kind of in this little weird middle ground where like I still have a six year old, but I'm also 44 and like seeing myself aging and like seeing the mother-in-law that I can relate to the mother.

Yes. I can relate to the mother-in-law. And I'm like, one day you're going to be the grandma and you're going to want to pick out a toy for your grandchild and how wonderful would it be if your daughter-in-law was like pick out whatever you think that she would like. I can't wait to see you and her have that moment when she opens it and you guys can enjoy that little beautiful moment together. And don't donate at it. That's passive aggressive. Yeah. And also I hate to say this and be kind of morbid, but like one day she's going to be gone. And like maybe she wants to give her things that I know that that's,

how my mother-in-law is, we don't talk about it. She doesn't say it, but I know she wants to give the kids things that are going to be like memories of her and like things that they can keep. And one day when she's gone, they will remember her. And there is like this kind of existential crisis that people go through as they're getting older and they want the generations to kind of have these gifts that are from them that are meaningful. So if she gives her something, I'm not saying whatever she gives her when she's one, she's going to keep forever. maybe she would though and then she'll have this memory oh grandma gave me this on my first christmas and i still have it and it's like a meaningful connection so get out of the logistics of it let them have

this bonding moment i totally agree all right let's do some intentions do you want to read them sure hi i just discovered your podcast a couple of months ago and i can't get enough it's immediately become my new favorite i look forward to each week awesome thank you i'm currently 31 and i've struggled with being overweight my whole life, as in started dieting in third grade and struggle with emotional slash binge eating. My weight fluctuates a fair amount, but I'm finally starting to get a good grasp on things and I'm on meds for both my mental health and weight loss from my therapist and PCP. The problem I've noticed is as soon as I lose enough weight to achieve a goal, like fitting into a specific pair of pants again, I get in the I have arrived mindset, where I start to go off the rails and

act like I'm one of those high metabolism people who can eat whatever they want and stay thin. For context, if it matters, I've technically been diagnosed with ADHD, PTSD, anxiety, and depression. But personally, think the symptoms overlap so much of that, I'm not nearly as bad off as the list of diagnosis sound. I agree. Those are all kind of interrelated. Can you help me set an intention that allows me to enjoy my victory while also maintaining

the regimen that got me there and stay on the right trajectory? sending love your way a roller coaster batch. I think this is a good one. I think a lot of people struggle with this kind of thing, with anything. It's like you feel like you're good at it and then you kind of feel like you can do whatever. You don't have to keep trying. Right. Because you've achieved some level of success.

And I think what happens sometimes linking this on the other end, and this is where eating disorders start to come in, where you're so afraid of this. You're so afraid of like feeling like I'm good. I've arrived that you go like to the extreme to give yourself like wiggle room. Like, okay, well, like I've arrived, but like I can't take my finger off the pulse of this. Like I can't let go. I can't, you know, like that's when you see people where it's like you're too, you've lost too much weight. Like it's starting to look unhealthy because they're sort of like I can't take my foot off the gas or I'm going to let go.

because I think a lot of people do feel that way. And we talked a little bit about this in our like resolutions thing. You know, you were talking about the joys of mediocrity. But just like finding that balance, there's not as much evidence for like a balanced life as there is for one of like complete control or completely doing whatever you want to do all the time. Like it's hard to pinpoint balance.

Balance. Hence our little rock structure, our little rock sculpture that we bought for you. Balance is really, it's one of the cornerstones of mental health and happiness, and it's really hard to do because our brains are wired for maximizing and control, right? Maximizing is like, I want more,

I want all the dopamine. I want more dopamine. I want to seek, seek, seek. And control is like, I need to be constantly worrying about not having enough. Like when I have, When I have it, I want more of it. And when I feel balanced, I have to worry about what if I don't feel balanced?

So balance is really, really hard. And I think the only, you know, again, in line with the goal setting stuff that we talked about, I think if you can stay focused on the journey, the daily act of doing the thing, breaking it into like the small bits of the goal and focusing on really like almost meditating into at the end of the day, and this is what I would recommend for her. Instead of waiting for the six weeks and then trying on the pair of jeans and either you're like flying high on dopamine or you're super depressed because they don't fit, whatever it is, taking the focus off the genes and at the end of each day, if you've made healthy choices,

if you've been good to your body. And that's in terms of like not under eating and not overeating, like having a day where you've had a nice balance. Meditate on that. Breathe into the gratitude for yourself, for your willpower, for the fact that you've spent a day of your life, rewiring your brain towards balance. And that's the moment that I want you to enjoy and relish in.

And I think you can reward yourself, but not like I'm going to reward myself for the pants. I'm going to reward myself for the little bits that make up what I'm trying to do. So at the end of each day, really like sinking into, I had a great day today. I, you know, really made healthy food choices. I exercised. I pushed myself. I did all the right things.

And I'm going to reward myself by enjoying. I can go to sleep knowing that I did everything I was supposed to do today. even if you still don't fit into those pants today, you've done everything that you can up until that moment to get there. And that's what I think you should kind of lean into in that moment. That's good for anyone working on any goal this January. Totally. It's the small bits.

And that's almost like I wrote a couple of intentions for her, one of which is pretty simple and it's just celebrate the small bits. celebrate the one meal that you had that was balanced and healthy. Celebrate the one workout that you had. And how do you celebrate it? You take five minutes afterwards and you close your eyes and you actually enjoy the moment of knowing that up until this moment, I've made all the right choices, that I've done everything I can in this moment. And sometimes it takes pausing, stopping, closing your eyes and really sinking into, sinking into,

to that moment of just one, like even take your day today. Say you have a long, busy day. And after we do this recording, which is one of my favorite things, so I don't really need to reward myself for doing this. I love this. But after it's done, if I close my eyes and I say, you know what, I'm just going to savor this. I just got to talk to my sister for an hour. We had some laughs. We helped some people. I'm going to close my eyes and just let that sink in and kind of enjoy the small bit. of what makes up your day instead of, oh my God, but after this, I have another meeting. And like she finishes her meal. Okay, great.

So I ate one sal. But later I'm going to have to go to this dinner and then I'm going to have to resist this. And I don't really feel. Right. Break it down. Keep it narrow. Focus on the small bits that make up whatever the goal is. And I think she can also reward herself, but not.

Yeah. But little. bath because it's sensory, right? So when you get in that bath for the first minute and your body hits that hot water and it's like there's something you're going to send signals, reward signals to your brain there, especially if you add aromatherapy, which is an inexpensive treat that's good for your body. You can get into a bath, put something in that smells good, sink in and just close your eyes and think about what you did that day that was good for yourself. It's a great reward. It's sensory. It's in your body so it's going to send those dopamine signals that the same thing is going to

chick filet and ordering, you know, something terrible for you. It's going to do the same thing for your brain, but much healthier. That's a great point. Like the reward doesn't have to be doing the thing that you've been restricting. Right. Yes. You know, like. And she says that she, you know, there is another layer to this where talking about brain chemistry, when you've been, been in this roller coaster dieting thing since the time you're eight years old, it does change your brain chemistry. Like if you're used to overeating, now you need to kind of eat more. It's almost like a drug. Like it changes your brain chemistry. You kind of have to eat more to get that same reward center high. And there is research that shows that it's like which comes first, the chicken or the egg,

I don't know if they know, but like obesity and overeating, right? There's something in your brain, perhaps, that allows you to need more food to get that reward center firing up. And is that, you know, because you've exhausted the reward center by overeating or do obese people maybe have a different brain where they need a little bit more, you know, they need more food or that reward center takes more to fire? I don't know the answer to that, but there is a brain chemistry involved in this. And I think you can start to rewire by doing some of these things where you're offering reward.

That's a different type of sensory reward, like a warm bath or aromatherapy or a massage. Yeah. The theragon is like, I mean, these are some great things that you can kind of have that feel good without attaching it to food necessarily. I love that. Healthy rewards. Yes, sensory. Your body. your body's you know or even like sex or you know masturbation or whatever's going to float your boat

that's going to give you there's other ways to get a release yeah reward yeah exactly like that reward center firing in your brain where for you i don't think the food one is serving you well in that area i think you need i mean in all areas you need balance but it's probably hard because like that's the thing she probably wants the most right yes and Maybe it's just trading your brain to not want that the most. Yes. And she is doing it. So you know, like, she knows how to do it.

So you can calm yourself by saying, like, I know what to do and I can do this. And I'm just going to celebrate the little rewards along the way. And, you know, and look, I don't think it's the end of the world if she wants to, you know, that's why some of these point system things. Have a cheat meal or something. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. But for some people, it does set off that trick.

where like you can't just have a slice of pizza. Like if you're going to have a slice of pizza and your brain is wired to be triggered, and it's like some people can't have one drink. Some people can't have one slice of pizza. If you know that about yourself, then that might not be the best way to reward yourself. Right. Good point.

But I don't think it's the worst thing. And the most important thing is if you do, go a little crazy, no shame. relapse is part of the process. It's okay. Just find the next small bit that you can do and then sit and relish in because the small bits, you can get that at any moment. You can't get the fit into the pants at any moment, but you can get the,

I just had a really healthy lunch and now I'm going to sit and enjoy the fact that I had a really healthy lunch at any moment. Again, good resolution intention for, Totally. All right. Let's do some triggers. Let's do it. There's a really good one on here.

The first one is great. I love this one. Yeah, this is awesome. Thinking about that one for a bit. Okay. Dear Dr. Naomi and Jordana, I really loved oversharing from the start. Thank you for your stage advice

and grounded mindful approach to life's challenges. I'm a therapist myself and take a very relational attachment oriented approach in my clinical work and I found the podcast to be a great anchor for me. I am writing today because, because this scenario is just too wild to not share, and I would appreciate your perspective. I separated and divorced from my ex-wife about five years ago. I am the one who ended our marriage, and it took a lot for me to finally choose myself after years of caretaking. Unfortunately, the way things ended was pretty awful, and I'll spare details to protect her privacy,

but it led to us having zero contact and me being blocked on social media, unfriended by family members, etc. We have no kids together and not many mutual friends. She also moved away from the town we lived in, so we really have gone our separate ways, which has probably been best for both of us. I can now say I'm in the happiest stage of my life I've ever experienced. I did a lot of grieving, processing, and healing. I feel like my whole authentic self again, and I'm in a stable, mutually caring relationship where my needs are valid and we are true partners. I think I needed to go through my marriage and divorce to get to where I am now, so I do not regret the past, but I also have no desire to relive it, nor do I miss that relationship. That being said, curiosity

gets the best of me once a year or so, and I typically will do. a Google search of my ex to ensure she is still out there and hopefully okay. On my last search, I found a wedding website and learned that she's engaged to be married to her girlfriend. This is not the triggering part. Honestly, I was relieved and glad she has found happiness again. The triggering part is that when we married, my ex-wife took my last name and when we divorced, she kept it. My last name is also pretty unique and lovely if I do say so myself. And now on her wedding website, my last name is their wedding hashtag. Wow. Upon further reading, they have also adopted a dog who also has my last name. I have kind of a great of a great last name so I can have

some understanding as to why my ex-wife kept it. But from what I'm reading, it looks like her new wife might be taking my last name too. My question for you is, how triggered should I be? I'm not sure if I will ever get married again and I'm currently partnered with a man anyway, so it's unlikely someone will take my last name again. I have also landed in a place in my late 30s where I am pretty certain I will not be having children, so also will not be passing my last name down in that way. I feel protective over my name and identity. I do not love the idea of them creating a new life or family with my name. Am I being ridiculous? Is it possible she is not taking my last name? But if she is, how is the new wife going to answer the inevitable question she gets about the origin

of my very cool last name? Oh, it's my new wife's ex-wife's family name, not mine. It all just feels very weird and honestly a little reminiscent of my marriage. Sigh. Thanks anyway, the original wife. She gives us her last name, which we're not going to share. But it has like very like Miss Honey vibes.

Right. It's like, it's a nice last name. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. So I could see why the X likes it and it, you know,

wants it. Right. But this is this is nuts. I mean, naming. naming the dog, first of all. That's not the dog that they had together. She got like a new dog and named it.

So the writing's on the wall. She already gave the dog her last name. Yeah, I mean, she's kept the last name. Right. I'm trying to think like, because I mean, this is a unique situation because it's like a lesbian relationship. But let's say, because it happens a lot of the time where someone gets divorced from a man and they keep the last name. Right.

But then usually if they got married. to another man, they would be taking the other man's last name. Right. But the other man certainly wouldn't be taking their ex-husband's last name. Right. So I can see how this would happen. It's not like, like, to me, if you took out the whole like patriarchal thing of like having to take the man's last name, you would just take in a relationship the person who had the

better sounding last name. Right. Yes. however she should then take her maiden name right like then as they get remarried she's now marrying someone new and whichever name they like better I think the choices should be the two maiden names not the married name where they're now divorced but she kept the married name so she's oh she's been since she's met this person I guess this is I mean she clearly doesn't harbor that much ill will towards her if she's willing to keep the name and bring it to her.

Yes. Unless that's like a weird like revenge scheme. Yes. I wonder. That's what I think she maybe thinks it is. Like this listener sounds like she's totally over it. She's ready to move on. And this other ones, I don't know if she thinks it's passive aggressive that she's like

clinging to this name just to kind of. It's almost like keeping the engagement ring. Like, well, you gave it to me. Now it's mine. I mean, I wouldn't feel comfortable if I was dating. someone taking their exes last name personally. So I think it's almost weirder that the, assuming she knows that's not her real last name.

I think it's weird that the new wife doesn't have a problem with it. Doesn't have a problem with it. I don't think there's much she can do about it. I could see why it would be like kind of irritating. It's like you're taking my whole family lineage and grading. Yes. And she's not going to have children. And she's so there's going to be this whole like for, you know,

hundreds of years, there's going to be this whole line of, you know, Miss Honey's. It's not Ms. Honey, but, like, there's going to be a whole line of those that's not her kids and not her lineage. It's true. I mean, technically speaking, you could change your last name to anything you wanted to change it to at any point. Like, two people could do that. So it's not, like, illegal what they're doing.

It's weird. I don't think that she should say anything. I think she, like, I think she's, like, I think she's, like, I think she's, like, I think she's, a right to be like irritated about it but um that's it i don't think there's much that can be done here now you know if you give someone your last name it's theirs to keep i mean but i'm saying like it doesn't even like like we could change our last names to this person's last name yeah i mean anyone could pick any name they really want like you could be dating a guy and he never likes you back and you're like obsessed with him and then you go to the social security administration office and you say i want my name to be this

and you could just change your name, whatever you want. I agree. At any time. Yeah. I mean, I would just say. No one's ever done that. That sounds super like creepy stalker movie. Totally.

Because you could legally do that. Right. Like a crush that you had in like high school. Yeah. It's like insane. I mean, I would just think of it as flattering, I guess. Yes. Yeah.

It's a great story to tell other people. I would immediately tell everyone I knew and be like how insane is. this person, but I wouldn't say anything to them. Yeah, there's nothing you can do. That's it. Trying to think what level triggered it would be. I think because she broke up, she was the one,

the person who's emailing is the one who broke up with her. I give it like, I give it a five. I think if like she had jumped and then her got her last name stolen and take and brought to someone's new family, I think that would be really triggering. Yeah. And I do think that that's,

part of why she did it. I think the fact that this listener was the one that ended the relationship, I think that that's, I don't think she would have done it otherwise. So I think the fact that she did get broken up with, she's kind of like, well, this is my parting gift that I get because you divorced me and, you know, I didn't want this relationship to end. I don't know. I still am going to bump. You said five. I give this more like a seven. I think this is weird. Definitely weird. Definitely weird. Just knowing that this could be hundreds of years of like your name being passed on. And now she has the same last name as both the ex-wife.

Right. The ex-wife and the dog and the potential kids. I give this a seven. Yeah. It's fine. I'll give it a seven. It is kind of just having like weird distant cousins with your last name. But I could see why be.

It's more weird. I think it's much more weird for them. I could not. imagine how the new wife is just kind of like, I guess it's, should they really like the name? And people spend a lot of time picking out like their kids names and they wanted to be the best name and they think about it a lot. So if you could pick your last name. Yeah. I mean, it's possible she's not taking the last name because like the last, we're not going to tell you the last name again, but it's very conducive to a hashtag. Yeah. So it's possible it's just the hashtag and she's not

taking the last name. You don't know that for sure. Right. It is weird though. Yeah. All right. Well, that was a good one. Love that one. All right. Do you want to do our last one? Yeah. I'll do one more triggered. Here we go. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Thank you for all that you do. I have a triggered for you. I was talking to my therapist about how my husband and I have just started trying to have a baby. I ovulated. We had sex. And the next day, I had a girl's day in the city where I ended up having five drinks over the course of the day from 11 a.m. to 9 p.m. This is not usual behavior for me. I do drink. Sorry. It does sound fun. But when I do, I will have one, maybe two drinks depending upon the occasion. The next day, I was experiencing the most crippling sense of guilt around the fact

that I had drank. I knew that these thoughts were irrational, but I could not stop thinking. I had caused harm to my baby or my ability to conceive. I was looking for validation and possible skills to help let go of all this guilt and silence the irrational thoughts. Instead, my therapist commented, well, five drinks is a lot and suggested that I may have a drinking problem and spend 10 minutes describing her own friends who have drinking problems. I'm now bawling and she pivots and starts discussing her own pregnancy. She has two kids and how easy getting pregnant was and how I don't know why you're giving so much thought. I never did and I have two healthy kids. I honestly couldn't even speak at this point and I just let her fill the hour. I wasn't even talking about being

pregnant, but the not knowing period between sex and a missed period. Maybe the fact that she's in her 60s has something to do with it or the fact that all three of my closest friends have recently experienced miscarriages. So I'm hyper aware of all the risks, but I wanted to have some validation. And instead, I got a substance use diagnosis and a dose of shame. How triggered can I be best, a hopefully soon to be mom? Yeah, this is very. triggering. Yeah. There's like two, two, one is the whole like, why are you worrying about getting pregnant?

Like I didn't worry and I got pregnant, which is like crazy comment. Which seems like counterintuitive to her next triggering comment. Right. It's like that you have a substance abuse problem. Like don't worry, but worry about your drinking problem. Right. Yeah, this is triggering. I mean, look, it is sometimes tough for a therapist when someone discusses their substance use.

because in this case, you know, I might kind of explore how like anxiety is a real thing, right? So like when you drink too much and then the next day you're anxious about whatever, what did I do? What did I say? This is especially true for people that tend to like black out or not remember things. The, I always talk about like how our bodies influence so much of like our mood. So like if your body doesn't feel good and you feel sick and all that and then you're anxious because you don't remember, it's just like this vicious cycle of like my body and my mind and my body and my mind. So I would probably want to address how the drinking is perhaps affecting her anxiety the next day.

But her coming in being like, I just want to like have my feelings validated and like not feel so shameful. and then she's leaving, like feeling invalidated and shameful is like I could see why this feels super triggering. Right. And just for the record, according to Emily Oster, you can drink up until you get a positive pregnancy test. Okay. That's what she says.

Right. Who's been on baby steps? Check out the episode if you feel so inclined. That would have been a helpful thing for her to probably have heard. Yeah. And she says, I mean, again, I don't know how long she said this therapist, but she says she doesn't really do that that often. Right.

She had what sounds like a very fun day. Yes. And I think if the therapist would have maybe asked a few more questions about like that, because it is part of a therapist job to figure out how substances are affecting someone's mental health because it's huge, right? If you are drinking a lot or you are using drugs or whatever it is, you know, it's very hard to treat somebody without treating that part of it if that is a big piece of it. But it sounds like for this listener that that really isn't a big piece of it.

And she could have asked that and found out that answer without, you know, going into her whole substance abuse problem. And then talking about, like, there's a reason why therapists are not supposed to talk about themselves in the therapy session. And it is a balance that you have to find. And I probably do it more than what I was trained to do. you know, 15 years ago in my original training because I feel like it helps me connect with my patients if done in the right way.

But this feels like it was the completely wrong way to do it, which was like, let me tell you about how easy it was for me to get pregnant and then talk about my personal friends who have drinking problems. Like, I don't know. Not how you want to use personal information and therapy. I think this is very triggering. And like, again, to feel like you pay. for something that has made you feel worse about a situation.

Yes, yes, yes. That you've gotten the complete opposite of what you needed. As someone who has listened to the, anyone who's listened to the beginning of this episode might know would be, I think is very triggering and inappropriate. And also just like I don't think is like none of that is accurate. Like I don't think not worrying is something that you, I don't know why you're worrying about something should not be like something that. Right.

Therapist says. It's not really about, it's like for you to figure out with this. Yes. Yes. And I totally, I agree that I, and I think you should, if you continue to see this person, I think you should bring it up and let her know how you feel. Hopefully she's open to it and maybe just somehow had like a moment, a bad moment where she was like, yeah, I probably, you know, was personalizing this too much and it really isn't about me and maybe she can apologize and you guys can repair or whatever, we're not maybe want to find someone else. But I definitely feel like you came in there looking for it's okay.

You're going to be everything's good. You know, like your feelings are valid. I can understand why you feel anxious. And even perhaps something like what you shared about there's nothing even in there yet. Like the sperm probably didn't even reach the egg by the time the alcohol left your system. you know, relax. She's fine. Yeah.

And yeah, I would, I mean, if I were her, I would also, like, read some books and do some research on that just because, like, that helps a lot of things. I would read Emily Oster's book, which was, which I really enjoyed called Expecting Better, which kind of, like, goes into a lot of that stuff with trying to conceive. But aside from that, I think I agree with you. She should confront the therapist and then find a new one if she doesn't seem to get. I think part of like part of a good match with the therapist is you feel like someone who understands you.

It doesn't sound like she felt understood at all. Yeah, it does sound like maybe this is like a newer therapist for her. I just get that vibe. I think you did too that like she's not aware of how much she's drinking or what her, you know, habits are. Yeah. On that if this is something that's very rare for her. And I also do think that five drinks over the course of, you know, whatever it was,

10 hours isn't crazy, you know? Yeah. Again, I don't think that's something that's really going to meaningfully impact anything she's trying to do. Yeah. So look, I think, you know, maybe one of the themes of this episode is like, confront your therapist. I feel like when people come to me and we talk about me and them, it makes me feel

I think it makes it allows them to realize that this is a safe space where they can tell me things, even things that they might think that I might not like and we can talk it through. So it's reparative for them. And it allows us to feel kind of like we're having a real conversation about real things, which is kind of best practice for everybody in your life. So that's when the real stuff happens is like when someone says like this thing happened. And it made me feel this way and to see that there is someone in this world who's going to say, okay, tell me more about that.

Like, what did you feel about that? What bothered you about that and not be defensive and not try to like, you know. Do you ever apologize for something that you've said? For sure. Yeah, for sure. Like I, you know, and I'm open to feedback. And in my groups, like I had a patient who felt like she was sharing something in one of the groups and then someone else interjected.

with something else and then I kind of like went to that other thing and never came back to what she was talking about. And I probably did. And it felt, I probably felt like, okay, someone else said something. And then maybe someone else said something in relation to that. And like, okay, here's a topic that people are interested in. And like maybe just kind of didn't in my mind remember to get back to the original place where it started.

And she left feeling like I was trying to say something. The conversation got derailed and I never got to say what I was. wanted to say. And I said, I'm sorry. That was my fault. That's my job is to make sure that you're kind of, you know, if you bring something up in a group that you're, you get to finish your thought and kind of come to a place where you feel good about what you shared. And I don't want you to feel like you're opening up and then having yourself kind of cut off in the middle of what you're sharing. So 100%. And you know what? Now I'm more mindful of that. And now I'm more aware of that. I mean, we're only human. I'm only human. And I make mistakes too.

And I'm glad that she said something because now I'm better able to say, okay, I have to make sure that like I close off this one thing before I move on to something else. So confirm your therapist. That should be our title for today. I give this an aid, by the way. Oh, yeah, we didn't rank this. I would, uh, I would agree. I think the, more so than the substance abuse comment, the part about like,

I didn't stop worrying about conceiving because I conceived. It's like, yeah, totally ridiculous. That makes helpful anything thing that anyone has ever done. Yeah. That makes it feel like an eight. The comment about like, let's talk about your substance use, that I would give more like a six.

Because I think it's normal. It's like you go into a doctor and you're kind of like, especially she's new or she doesn't know you and your habits that well. Right. I think it could see it's part of their job to kind of say like, okay, let's explore this or whatever. But the two combined,

especially this, you know, the one about the conceiving. I agree with an eight. We did it. We did it. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Picoe, and Rebecca Sousel McHan. Editing by Massilio Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Freedlander. Send your advice emails to

oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.