Oversharing - Should I Always Take My Family’s Side?

Episode Date: August 8, 2023

Dr. Naomi is back from her recent outdoors-y vacation and tells Jordana all about the sense of awe she experienced. Then they respond to a voicemail from a listener who has a pattern of freezing up when someone yells at her. What are the best strategies to deal with a tense situation, and how can you learn to respond differently? The Betchicist question comes from a listener who is caught in between her sister and a friend after they had a falling out over a guy. Are you obligated to hold a grudge on behalf of your sister even if you think she’s taking it too far? They give their honest take on an intentions email from a listener who often finds herself developing a crush on men who aren’t her husband. Is it okay to let yourself fantasize about others even if you’re in a committed relationship? They close things out with a pair of Triggered scenarios about annoying grief memes, and a suburban snob. Oversharing: Calm TF Down is available now, featuring our first four guided meditations! Become a subscriber in the Apple Podcasts app or go to subscribe.betches.com Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. I was like, should I said my last name?

I usually do. I'm Jordana Abraham in case anyone didn't know. I was like, what is going on here? You know, I get confused because I just recorded the At Batchez podcast. And on that one, we just say our first names. So hard to keep up. But yeah, we're not recording on our usual day because you were on vacay, this little summer vacay.

Oh my gosh. This might have been the best vacation I've ever taken. It was really awesome. I've never done the mountains in the summertime before. I've never really been to Colorado, which is where we went. But it was just awesome. Like, I don't know, it was just beautiful. I've never really had that type of, we usually do like tropical vacays.

You know, you want to get a little tan, you want to get a warm up. But we are in Texas, so we wanted to get a cool down. So we went in the opposite direction. This is a different kind of vacation. This is like an adventure vacation. There's vacations that are like, I'm going to sit by the beach and read a book and not do anything. But this is like a different kind of experience. It's like you're making more of an active memory.

Totally. This was all me. Jeff is not an adventurer. So leading up to the whole thing, I'm like so excited because I love this type of stuff, like hiking and climbing and camping. And not that I really, I like the idea of camping. I don't know that I've actually done that much camping, but, you know, all that type of stuff. And so I basically spearheaded the whole thing.

So I'm like, oh, gosh, I hope everybody. enjoys this as much as I do. I planned it. I planned it. I planned the whole thing. And I didn't really know anybody that did anything like this. So I just kind of took a stab at some stuff and looked at online reviews. But it really turned out. It was like a real nature trip. And that was kind of what I wanted. It was interesting. And I thought I would share with you and some of the listeners. you know, we talk about like when you're upset and you feel your feelings in your body, like when you're anxious or sad or. And then I was being very mindful during the trip of like, I'm driving and I'm looking

up at these beautiful mountains or we camped out in the middle of nowhere one night. And I'm looking up at all these stars. And there's like a sensation that we're all kind of seeking that I was paying close attention to in that moment. Like what is that feeling that we're seeking when we travel, when we want to see something that's new and spectacular and beautiful. And it was interesting that for me, it was like almost a very similar feeling to what I would feel if I was anxious.

It was like a chest. Heart racing. Yeah, like a kind of chest tightening like something up in my chest throat like heart kind of area that I'm like, this is the same thing I feel when I'm worried about something, but it's because I'm looking up at this enormous mountain or looking out over this vista. or and I just thought it was a kind of cool realization that it's the same, not this exact, but a very similar sensation, but totally different assignment that you're giving it. Yeah.

I mean, it kind of reminds me, we think we've talked about this a few weeks or a few months ago or were we talking about like, what are the most important things, which is for happiness or I forgot what the, what it was something positive. And it was like feeling awe. Yes. And that sounds kind of like exactly what you're describing, like an awe at like your surroundings. And I think we discussed this as it refers to travel. And I think you were giving some examples of ways you could get it in other places. But yeah, that's, that sounds like, you know,

it's hard to put a price on that. Yes. That's exactly what I felt many, many times during this trip. It was just a new experience for me to realize that the sensation that I had looking at something awesome and beautiful was very similar to the sensation I would have if I'm worried about, say, you know, am I going to, is my boss going to like what I'm doing? Am I going to get a promotion? Am I going to find a partner? Am I going to get this house? Like that same anxious feeling was a very similar feeling, but it had, I had a different

label to it. So it felt amazing and like exciting instead of like worrisome. All of those things are almost what it feels like to feel alive. And it's weird to think of anxiety as making. making you feel alive. But I feel like my clearest example of that was when I would date guys who were kind of unavailable and I'd get that text from them. And I'd be like, oh, my God, I'm so excited. Like, you know what I mean? Even when you get dumped and you're like, oh, wow, I feel, like I feel something really intense. It's, and, you know, it makes that high like a little bit more.

I don't know. I think that's probably like the less healthy version of it. But if you can get it from something that's not going to like ghost you. Right. This mountain was here yesterday. What happened? Right. Totally. And that's why nature and this and that's why people do all this.

And that's why we, you know, spent all this money on this vacation to get that type of feeling without the feeling of like, what if this doesn't turn out the way I wanted to? Like it's here. It's happening. It's the way I wanted to. This feels great. But it just is interesting. So I encourage you and me and myself to do more of this when you're looking at something.

that's amazing to also do that mindfulness thing of like, what does this feel like in my body when I'm looking out over the ocean or I'm looking at a beautiful scenery or I'm looking at like beautiful old architecture or something that we travel, you know, thousands of miles to see. Like, what is this feeling? And then when you're feeling it, when you're anxious or whatever, it might be easier to kind of be like, oh, wait, this is actually the same feeling. I'm just attaching a different label to it or a different meaning to it or my imagination is taking over this feeling. and like, you know, turning it into something else. This also makes me think of, you know, again, like we spend so much time thinking about

what does it feel like to feel your feelings when you're sad that you don't even necessarily think about the opposite, which could, you know, make yourself that much happier in moments that are good. Learning how to appreciate those moments are almost as important, I would imagine, as being able to feel the negative things. And it reminds me of this class I took in in college, a positive psychology, which was, I guess, the premise was that. that most of psychology up until recently was all about figuring out like why people were so mentally fucked up. Right.

Or like ailments or illnesses or mental health like crises. And like there was very little paid attention to in terms of what was making people happy. Yeah. Or like like looking at the that of things that weren't just, you know, issues instead looking on like optimizing life. Right. Totally. And that makes, I mean, and it's true because we're called to alarm when things are going bad. we're not really called to alarm when things are going well. So yeah, it's a good wake up call.

Even for me, I've never really done that in that type of environment. I haven't actually been in an environment like that in a long time where it was something that I have never in my life seen before. Like I, you know, I love going to the beach. I love going to the Caribbean. And I always have that I do have those feelings of all. Like, oh my God, look at the color of the water. And it's beautiful. And I have that. But something that's brand new, which is a lot. why I think people, it's interesting because I was thinking a lot about what we're going to talk about down the line and the intention segment, which is, I'll just give a little teaser about like, you know, being in a relationship and feeling like you need a little excitement from something new.

I think it is normal that we seek out like a shift in our body chemistry. But then it's like, what do we do with it once we realize that it's there? So it was a pretty cool experience. So funny. It all comes together. I mean, again, I remember talking to an early therapist. about how I could only get excited about a guy if I wasn't sure if he was into me or if he was going to text me back. And she was like, maybe you should travel more. You can get excited from like

things that are not. Yes. Like someone messing with you. Totally. Yeah. Go bungee jumping or right. Totally. It's it's very true. So that was my experience traveling. It was pretty awesome. And I'm going to, I really, I have a good takeaway from it in terms of how to incorporate some of that like mindfulness. into, you know, maybe it's not going to be something as awesome as that, but just trying to realize that so much of what we experience lives in our body and it's our thoughts that turn it into one thing or another. Yeah, well, I'm very happy for you. I'm glad you got that experience. Thank you. It was awesome. Anything going on with you with the move? So I'm in between my apartment in my house now. I'm in with my in-laws for what turned out to be just.

a little over a week, like 10 days. But it was interesting. It's interesting. Because it's like, it's a very, it almost feels like really, in some ways it's really nice because there's, we're living with his parents who are very caring and nice. And, you know, there's so much more food in their fridge than there is in our house. And there's just, oh, you know what I mean? There's always like, don't.

And every time I, you know, I walk their houses in Long Beach and it's like walking distance to the train. So I like walk to. And every time I leave, there's like, do you want a ride? do you like do you shirt i'm like no i'm gonna walk like i like i like the walk or right but you feel like there's there's people who are like really caring about you which feels like a very kind of a different environment from what we grew up in totally and it feels almost like uncomfortable i'm like do you know what i mean because it feels so foreign yes i totally can relate to that idea of like this is it feels

great but it's also kind of like i don't there's like people that are paying attention to my experience and I don't know what to do with that. Right. And I think from our house, you're sort of trained to be very independent and like look after yourself and it kind of becomes like your norm and your way of being. And it can feel like just kind of weird to have the like the idea of someone's interested in if you're going to be home for dinner. Right. It's so true. And I could, I mean, I could imagine that maybe it feels because you're not used to it a little bit overwhelming or smothering or something along those lines just because it's not something that you, your whole system is not prepared to include a ton of other people in your decision making

process. Yeah, for sure. It can feel a little bit like, oh, now I need to like, because my feelings are being taken into consideration at every moment. Now I have to, you know, think about everyone else's feelings. So if I don't like what's for dinner, but you're not so comfortable like you would be in your own home. Like if Mike was making dinner and he had a meal choice that I didn't like, I would just be like, oh, I don't want that.

Right. You can't say that someone's parents. You feel a little, like, rude. Yes. For sure. So you got to just eat whatever's for dinner. Right. That's it.

It's only a week. But I could see. It's just, it is an interesting, you know, look into how. how your childhood affects your whole constitution, even into your 30s where you're sort of like, I'm just not used to this whole, like seeing a totally different dynamic. And I think not until you get married,

do you really realize, oh, whoa, there are whole different ways of doing things that people are doing. And our way was probably not the most typical way of doing things. Totally. And I remember I just said to, I think I said to Mike last night, I'm like, wow, like, you were never going to have it as good as you did in your childhood where your mom was like constantly making sure that you were great and comfy and fed

because like that is not at all. Right. How do you think he feels about it kind of like going from having it to like not having it and now back to having it again? I think it's mixed. I think he's become pretty comfy pretty quickly because we got, you know, we've been waiting to get a close date for our house and then finally we got a close date. And I was like, oh, like we're closing Tuesday so we can move Thursday. He's like, oh, you want to move Thursday?

Like, I'm like, did you want to live here forever? Like, right. There's dinner, you know, there's like parents are dropping him off and taking him to the train station. Right. It's true. Well, I'm happy for his parents who get to have you guys. I could imagine that's probably a nice little, you know, flash from the past having him back in the house and having you too. But yeah. And it's sweet. It makes me think it makes me get a sense of what it was like for him growing up. Yeah.

And your takeaway is don't get used to it. It's not happening. Enjoy it while less. When I first said that, he's like, oh, I'm like, I'm never going to measure up to like what your mom is like doing here. And he's like, oh, like what you do is like fine. I'm like, no, I'm like, no. I wasn't saying like I want to.

I'm just saying like, you're not going to. That wasn't like I'm going to try to make it more like this. It was more just like enjoy it well. Right, right. Totally. That's true. Well, look, you guys have been together for a long time.

I don't think he expected a Susie homemaker. But it's just, it's funny, little case study in, in upbringings. I think if you were in, if you, I'm trying to, I was trying to imagine if he spent a week at our mom's house.

Oh my gosh. I want to see that. Just like as a reality TV episode, that would be really fun. They should do that like family. Instead of, you know, they just have like wife swap. They could do like childhood home swap. Yes. See how the other person would react to growing up in the other person's house.

Right. Well, you're doing it and it's like fine because it's in this direction. You know, it's in the direction of more. If it was in the direction of less, oh gosh, it's like no toilet paper in the bathrooms. Like everyone's screaming at each other. Yeah. No, it's literally the opposite in his house. His mom empties the garbages once a day. Right. Which is like crazy to me. Right. Right. Right. Oh, that does sound nice. All right. Enjoy that for a little bit. I will. Yeah, let's get into the email for today. So we have a voicemail for our first emails. So we're going to play the voicemail. And if you have a voicemail that you want to leave, I love the voicemails. They're so good. And we get some really great ones. So if you want to leave a voicemail, you can leave one at 646. Three, 363-6294 or if you prefer email you can email us at oversharing at betches.com.

Let's play the tape. Hi, Jordana and Dr. was hoping that you could help me with a struggle of mine that might be struggle with when somebody yell. I've now done lock to these people in my life. Yield at me for me. Her main floor and she's yelled at me from everything from my dog has sniffed her recycling. She closed enough and the wind flew it open. Days.

I know rationally this is her problem. She has a trouble of a whole regulating her room. I'm so thankful that I'm still, for hours after she's yelled at me, still. So I'm hoping that maybe you can help me with an intention or what I can tell myself in order to get through that interaction and how I can let it go afterwards. So hopefully you can help me with this struggle and hopefully thank you for all you do. You guys, Robb. This was a really good voice.

got me thinking about how what how you should react when someone yells at you right because I was just thinking like what is the proper response to being yelled at right or or anything you know I feel like some I usually the most when I'm getting yelled at by strangers it's usually when I'm driving yeah I'm like accidentally cutting someone off right or or like and you can sense like a rage from someone next to you but I'm wondering when what do you think yeah this is it's interesting because what I'm curious if her rumination about it is like did I do, did I really do something wrong? Did I deserve to be yelled at? Or is it more like I should have said something.

I should have stood up for myself kind of thing. So I mean, look, I think when someone's yelling at you as I'm envisioning that, the first thing is like that I think any human is going to do is like back away from that. Like literally take a step back if she's getting in your face, like protecting your space. but I think what this listener is saying is that maybe she needs to take back her power by not freezing in that moment and not just like staying silent and saying nothing. So maybe we could help her with something that she could say that makes her feel like I'm kind of rewriting this old childhood script of not freezing, something as simple as stop

yelling at me or please stop yelling at me or I, you know, something like that, which she probably never even said to her dad, you know? So I think that she probably just literally froze, took it, and then left. So I think there would be some empowerment that came from her. And I don't think she needs to yell back. And I certainly don't think she needs to get in this woman's face. But I think she could come up with something that feels like simple and short and sweet that feels like she's not freezing the way that she always froze and that she is kind of standing up for herself. Yeah. To me, this sounds like a childhood, like survival. survival mechanism thing where maybe her dad was the kind of person where if you said,

please stop yelling at me. Maybe that would make him angrier and he had more power over both her and her mom to where she felt like she, the only thing she could do was say nothing or the only thing her mom could do was say nothing. And I guess I think that's usually why we react the way we react to anything is because of the way we learned the other person would react to our reaction. Yes. Right.

Totally. And I think this can go, this is applicable, I think, to a lot of different sort of childhood dynamics that then present themselves as adults. Like, let's say you had a parent who withdrew when they were angry and didn't speak to you when they were angry instead of yelling. Then you're going to have like this strong physiological reaction to someone who withdraws when they're angry. So this is just one example of, you know, kind of like we always talk about watching your body, watching your reaction and seeing how these reactions are wired into your brain from what you did when you were a kid. And she's noticing it in real time. Like when I was a kid, I froze.

Now I am also freezing. So I think in order to rewire her brain, I do think she's probably going to need like a second or five or ten to be like, okay, it's happening. I'm getting triggered. This is the same thing that happened when I'm a kid and just kind of coming up with just something to say, even just stop yelling at me. Right. And just have that prepared so that she could feel like, okay, I'm writing a new script.

I'm not freezing. I'm saying, stop yelling at me and back away or walk away or whatever. You know, I wish she was here so I could figure out what it is. But she said the rumination afterwards. That's another part of it, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. It's a separate thing.

And I wonder if that's, again, not like wiring of her brain that when you get yelled at, it's because you're bad or you did something wrong. and if she's having trouble sort of detaching from that kind of pattern thinking of like, okay, it's your fault, you're a bad girl, you did, you know, whatever it was that made your dad yell at you. So kind of becoming aware of it, but I also think that avoidance strengthens these reactions. So anytime you want to change something or you want to do something differently and you just kind of keep avoiding it by not speaking up or not.

you know, continuing to do the rumination because you're, you know, still in that same thought loop of like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have, I should have latched the door. Maybe I shouldn't have let my dog sniff the recycling, which is ridiculous. Right. Kind of coming back and finding your voice and finding your power and being able to shift up that dynamic. But I would, the other thing that I would say, and we talked, I think we had something similar to this a long time ago of like exposure therapy.

You know, like allowing her to yell, like to not to avoid her so that she never yells, but just kind of being like, I can tolerate this now. And this means nothing about how the rest of my day is going to go. Like it might have with her dad. And this is great practice for her to do that. I think you've said, which reminds me of something you said. I think someone wrote in a long time ago about maybe a mother-in-law or someone in their family making negative weight comments or something that was like triggering to them

in that way. And I think you would phrase it as almost like, there's a good practice of dealing with someone who is not as evolved as me in this space. And the more I do this, the less any of these interactions are going to really bother me. Yes. Yeah. So even like if she yells at you, you can, you know, I think you have a few options. One is you can do like. Yel back.

Yes. You can yell back. Which honestly, maybe that would feel good. Maybe that would feel like empowering to her to yell back at her and just be like, you know, I'm not going to talk. It wasn't doing anything. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

You could push yourself to do that if that's possible. The other thing you can do is literally just almost like have a meditative moment while she's yelling. And she's like, okay, she's yelling. What's happening in my body? And just kind of like having that exposure and taking deep breaths and like realizing, okay, she's not going to hurt me. she's not going to ground me. Like when your dad yelled at you, there probably were some consequences to that. You know, maybe you were grounded or maybe you were in trouble or maybe your mom cried

and then that made you sad or, you know, this random woman yelling at you means nothing about the rest of the course of your day, but it is because she's ruminating about it. So now it is sort of affecting the rest of her day. So I think she's on to something in terms of like not allowing herself to ruminate about it and realizing that the answer is not, she's not going to find the answer to this in her mind. I think it's more about getting into her body, calming her body,

maybe taking back some of the power. But I, this childhood triggering stuff can happen in a multitude of different forms, whether it's yelling or withdrawing or making comments about weight or whatever these things. We're like, oh, whoa, this is like an old wound.

I can feel that. I almost think it's better to deal with this. with this person because you know because you have said she's had so many interactions with this person where she knows it's her yes because it's not like if you have a one-off situation again where someone yells at you when you're driving where you're like well what did I do I can be like you know this is her disposition this is just how she acts and it's not about you being a bad neighbor or bad person because she just does it so frequently it's so clearly about her it's almost a great way to practice that yes yeah so I would either take it back yell at her or just literally

literally like zone out when she's yelling. Not like zone out, but like hear the yelling and like see if you can calm your, like use her as a little guinea pig. See if you can just like hear the voice of her yelling and like take nice deep breaths and calm your body and kind of retrain your brain. Like I can breathe through someone yelling at me and I don't, it doesn't mean you're freezing. It means that you're like working on kind of tolerating the sound of this as your own work

that has nothing to do with what she's doing. So yeah, use it. She's been sent to you for you to practice this. And I am glad that you're not in relationships anymore with anyone that's doing that. So that's the most important thing. Right. But if you want to work through this, I would use this as an opportunity to be like, okay, here's a challenge that I have in my life.

And I've been sent this mean lady that's going to yell at me periodically so that I can desensitize myself to it. I like that. Great advice. or, you know, steal her mail, is it all. I'm just kidding. No. Revenge is never the answer most of the time.

Let's do a betchesis, where we read an ethical dilemma, and you and I say who's right. All right, I'll read this one. Okay. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I love the pod. I'm someone who found their way over from you up and have been obsessed ever since. Your common rational advice has helped guide me through many of my own small conflicts, and for that I'm so thankful.

I wanted to ask your advice regarding a recent argument I had with my sister over the 4th of July weekend. Although the argument itself was recent, the issue has been an undercurrent in our relationship for nearly eight years. A little backstory. In 2015, my sister, let's call her Taylor, was in a relationship with a guy, let's call him Dakota. Very specific. This is probably the names of her kids that she's got prepared. At our shared university. It was my understanding that this relationship wasn't anything serious, but I was aware that they were seeing each other regularly.

Fast forward a month or so, and during the night of the drunken, poor decision-making, my best friend, Megan, slept with Dakota. This resulted in many tearful apologies and Taylor vowing never to forgive Megan. Despite this, Megan and I have remained very close. She was in my wedding and has joined countless family gatherings in the years after this incident. However, despite time and many conversations, Taylor has made no efforts to move past her disdain for Megan. Fast forward to the fourth. I have invited Megan, along with another friend, to spend a couple of nights at my family's lakehouse, because so many years have passed since the incident between them, I assume that Taylor would be able to cope with this arrangement.

I could not have been more wrong. After spending most of the day leaving the beach. After spending most of the day, after spending most of the day, of the day leaving the beach with her boyfriend to have breakdowns in the house, unbeknownst to me. She informed me with a passive aggressive sneer over dinner that she would be leaving the next morning simply because of Megan's presence. I exploded and told her if she was going to continue to hold this grudge that she should leave. In that moment, the space and understanding I had for her regarding the situation had simply run out.

This resulted in a long, tearful conversation outside where many hurtful words were exchanged and ended with her making it clear that she had no interest in having a regular relationship with me and would, quote, see me at Christmas. Trudana and Dr. Naomi, am I wrong for expecting her to move past the situation that happened so long ago? Do I owe it to her to cut ties with someone I consider a best friend because of a mistake that she has owned and apologized for? Any insight or advice is appreciated signed a sad sister.

That's an interesting ethical dilemma. You know what, like the Kardashian, like Kylie Jenner, Tristan Thompson situation? No, it reminded me a lot of that. So Tristan Thompson is Chloe Kardashian's boyfriend and father of her two children. And he had cheated on her like multiple times. And then one time it came out that he cheated on her with Kylie Jenner. So it was Chloe's sister's best friend. Right.

It reminded me so much of that. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Right. And the ethical question of, I mean, maybe like, this is. that was a little worse because they're kids together and there's, you know, they were in a real relationship, not a situation.

But it made me think. And I remember thinking in that situation because Kylie dropped the friendship. Okay. Although I heard rumors that they're seeing each other again. Um, after that happened. And I was wondering like, is that, ethically is that, is that right or wrong? So that reminded me a lot of this situation. I think it's an interesting one.

Totally. Well, the problem here is like, the ship has kind of sailed. Like they've, she didn't do that. She didn't drop the friend. It's been so many years, eight years since this happened. So it would be kind of weird at this point to be like, well, now I'm not going to be friends with you because of a college thing that happened eight years ago. It might have been cool of her to drop the friend eight years ago when this first happened.

Like I think that probably would have been the move. Like, I think if I, if, you know, my best friend cheated with my sisters, you know, someone that she was obviously interested in dating and sleeping with and whatever. Yeah, had a relationship of sorts with. Right. I don't think I would continue to be friends with that person. But now. And I think it would be hurtful if that person, if it was you and that person, if your, if your sister

continued to be friends with someone that had slept with someone. with someone that you were in a relationship with. Right. Yeah. I mean, look, it's a sticky situation. But now that it's so many years down the line, it would be tough. You know, and it doesn't sound like there's anything that's going to appease her.

That being said, I don't think she has to have her to the lakehouse at the same time as her sister if she knows that she feels this way. Like, just keep the friendship separate, you know? Be chill about it. I kind of agree. I sort of see where her. sister is coming from. Right. Like she probably has been pissed that you've been friends with her this whole time for this entire time. It doesn't really see. It seems like she is kind of at least the way she's

describing it to us. She's minimized what happened to her, which to her looking in, maybe it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. She's like you weren't fully dating. He wasn't your boyfriend. Whatever this. But to her sister, this seems like a really, the fact that she's still upset about it now, to me says that this was something really significant for her. And this was something that meant a lot to her. And this was something that hurt a lot when it happened. And it doesn't seem like her sister ever really validated or respected that about how she felt. Like it does feel very minimizing. And then I could see why you wouldn't like someone who slept with a guy that you were seeing.

Right. And had sort of a known relationship with. Right. And then I could see not wanting to be at a lakehouse with them. And then also being especially annoyed that your sister maintained a friendship with them. So to be reminded of that, I think she could have a little bit of sympathy for her sister and that even if she doesn't think it was a big deal because to her it wasn't real. Like, experiences are not always understood by people who are not in them. Totally.

And I think we've talked about it so many times and so many listeners have experienced this thing where you can have really, really strong feelings for someone that you're not in a, you know, that you haven't defined the relationship with. And just because you haven't had a talk where you've defined the relationship doesn't mean that you don't. don't have super strong feelings for somebody. So. And sometimes you even have stronger feelings for those for that person than if you were in a relationship because you're sort of being, and she has situation ship. So to me it means like you're kind of being emotionally messed with. Right. For over a long period of time, which makes you sometimes even more like toxicly obsessed with a person. Yes. Yes. Yes. And look, I think what happened was the friend, Megan, apologized. And, you know, sometimes it feels kind of like, okay, well, she apologized. So what else can we do? Other types of

betrayals that we've talked about, I think there is this aspect of like just one apology when it comes to something as hurtful as cheating typically doesn't do the trick. So I think if Megan would have the entire time kind of been continuing to say, I know that that was terrible. I really appreciate you being supportive of my relationship with your sister. You know, this is why this happened. I was in such in such of a place. And, you know, I feel so if there would have been a little bit more repair, maybe it, maybe it would have been different. But even so, so right now they're in this position where they're like not speaking.

The sister wants nothing to do with her. Like, what does she do with that? If she listens to us and she realizes that the sister kind of has probably been doing about this the whole time and then to take the friend and throw it in her face by inviting them all to the lakehouse at the same time. That was probably kind of like pouring salt on the wound. Maybe that's an entry point where you don't necessarily have to not be friends with your best friend anymore in order to save your relationship with your sister.

But I think maybe just some acknowledgement of like, I get it. I get that you're not like super supportive of my friendship with her. I don't need to put it in your face in this way either. And maybe I'll just like kind of keep it separate. it. And, you know, we've been friends for eight plus years. I'm not really, you know, I don't think it's the right move to cut off my friendship with her now to, you know, to make you feel better about things. But I can be a little bit more sensitive about how you feel. Maybe that would be like a good compromise. And I can respect the idea that you didn't want to spend a weekend with her. Right. So I do think that she probably didn't need to like throw them into a house together knowing that she's, doesn't love this person and she can keep her friendship with her kind of separate and it sounds like the sister has been able to move on it's like she hasn't they haven't had a relationship they've been sounds like relatively cool until she like threw it in her face right yeah i mean again i i do i think

the sisters was maybe overreacting a little bit to her being there sure but again we don't know what the ins and outs of her situation ship with this guy were like how deeply that affected her clearly it was a very significant time in her life that she's still upset about it. Right. And look, devil's advocate on the other side, in an ideal world, would it be great for the sister to be able to say, hey, she was young in college, she made a mistake, she apologized, she cried, you know, she said tearful apologies, maybe that it was genuine at the time. You know, I can understand that it might be nice if she can kind of rise above. sounds like she has a new boyfriend that she's with.

So I don't know what he's thinking throughout this whole thing on this family vacation. But I do think it would be great if the sister could kind of say, all right, you made a mistake. It was a long time ago. You know, we were both almost a decade younger at that time. But if she's not in that position, you just don't have to throw it in her face. Right. Bottom line, you're both wrong. Yeah.

I mean, I do think it would be nice for the sister to be like, all right, I'm with someone new. this was a long time ago. I love my sister. This is her best friend. Let me try to move on. Right. And you could still not really like someone. You're entitled to not like someone forever that was associated with a painful point in

your life. Right. But you could also respect that not everyone else has to dislike them also. Yeah. And she could deal with, okay, I have to see her at a wedding. I have to see her at a birthday. I don't have to just see her at like a random Fourth of July that she doesn't necessarily need to be invited to.

Right. And again, she could invite the friend and then just say to her sister, maybe she'd even give her a heads up, hey, I know you don't like whatever. She's going to be there. I wanted to give you the heads up in case it was uncomfortable. I understand if you don't want to come.

Right. Or say, I want to bring such and such friend out at some point to the lakehouse. I want to invite her, what would be a good weekend when you're not going to be there? Right. You know, so you're kind of not making her feel like she's the one that's got to leave her own family's

lakehouse, but you're kind of saying, hey, I still have this friendship. it's been a long time, but I don't want to make you uncomfortable. So I think there's a bunch of other ways you could deal with this. I also feel like she would just feel more respected that way. Sometimes it's not even that people care so much,

more that they're just upset that no one else has assigned any meaning to the experience that they went through. Yes. So she feels like she has to like overcare about it because no one else cares about it and she still cares about it a little bit. But if she almost like acknowledged it, like, hey, I know you had that fucked up thing that happened with Megan. Is that the friend with Megan?

And I know like how hurtful that was. So I want to make sure that you're cool with this. I think she would probably feel silly to be like, yeah, never hang out with it. She would probably be like, oh, thanks. Like it's not a big deal. Like if sometimes someone else taking up that energy allows you to care less about it because you feel like it's at least been acknowledged. Totally.

And that's why it reminds me of like a cheating situation with someone where you've been cheated on. You choose to stay in it. one apology right after it happens is not going to do the trick. You have to continuously kind of be like, yeah, I'm aware that this was hurt hurtful to you. I'm like, it's in my mind. I'm going to be respectful of that. And even for the friend, maybe to sometimes bring up this thing that she did to her would be helpful too. I agree with you. I think if there was a little bit more acknowledgement, kind of like piecemeal along the way, she probably wouldn't be taking such a hard stand. It's like everyone wants to brush it under the rug. And that's probably what's pissing her all.

more than I agreed. Let's do some intentions. All right. Let's do it. All right, I'll read this one. Hello, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I love your podcast. You guys are so insightful and I love hearing your takes on people's issues. I think I need an intention, please. I'm recently married. I was with my husband for 10 years before finally getting married. Right now, he's 34 and I'm 30. He tells me he had been ready to get married after two years of dating me, but I wasn't ready so soon. I was completing my degree and honestly I've always felt like I've had a mild fear of commitment. I do want to clarify that I love my husband. I'm thankful for how supportive and patient he is and we simply vibe very well and like a lot of the same things. Here's my problem. I seem to have a pattern of crushing relatively easily on other people.

I always had this issue even in previous relationships. It's interesting because she says that she's 30 and she's been with him for 10 years. So previous relationships like in high school. Right. I'll meet someone at work or at school, so places where I have to see the person pretty often, who seems pretty cool and decently attractive, and I feel myself developing butterflies in the stomach type of feelings when I see the person. I'm ashamed to say that I sometimes can't stop myself from imagining how having sex with them would be like, and these feelings continue for as long as I'm in that place, work or school. This makes me feel incredibly guilty because I know I love my husband. I don't want to be with anyone else. But why do these crushes keep happening? It feels so immature and silly, like something that I

should have gotten over in high school. I also want to clarify that I have never and would never act upon these feelings. I would not throw away 10 wonderful years and hopefully more to come with my husband who cares so much for me. I also want to add that even though I haven't had very many partners or boyfriend, probably about four to five before my husband. That's so many. Right. Right. Can you imagine having four or five boyfriends before you turn 20? I know. That's a lot. That's a lot. I think I don't feel deprived or like I missed out on anything. I would like to have an intention to snap me out of these butterflies and bring me back to my reality with my loving husband, please. Thanks for all your help and keep doing what you do.

Chronic Crusher, Betch. All right. I'm glad that she wrote in because I will first off normalize some of this. I think it is, I think it happens. I think it's normal to find other people attractive when you're in a relationship. And in those types of settings where it's school or work, like we've talked to. about this before where I'm kind of like, okay, if you find someone attractive and they're like a random person, just like take a peek and look away so that you don't get yourself into a sticky

situation. But when it's work or school or someone that you kind of have to interact with, it feels more dangerous. Yes. Yeah. It's like more I have to talk to you and maybe it would be awkward not to engage in like chit chat if we're both sitting at this desk together or we're doing a project together and then you get to know them a little more and all that. So that's when I think there's a difference between like noticing that someone's attractive and having like an actual crush. And it's interesting because I feel like for men, this probably happens all. I mean, no one's ever like, if he looks at porn, he doesn't really love you. Right. So and I think for men, it's usually just more physical. And I think for women it can tend to be a lot more emotional, which is why she probably gets crushes on people that

she knows and interacts with a lot because I think it's a lot more emotional or mental, at least it would be for me. Whereas I think men do this sort of thing in a much more sexual, sexual and maybe like less personal way. And so it feels less bad for them. Or most men are not like, oh, I like got off to a woman who in my, in my head that wasn't my wife. And I don't think they would feel very guilty about that. Right. Right. I do think there is like a cultural standard that for a woman, this is a lot more of like, this is like a serious problem about her or about the relationship, whereas for a men, it might be seen as more kind of normal or accepted. So the first thing I want her to do is like not feel so guilty about it.

And it sounds like she's almost developed a little bit of an identity around this thing. Like this is a habit of hers and that this is something that she's done. I mean, look, she's set the boundary where she hasn't acted. on any of these feelings. And says she won't or it doesn't sound like she has a, she never would. Right. That's something she's saying, telling us and herself.

Right. So that's great. And I think the fact that she's, honestly, the fact that she's like admitting it to herself to the point where she's like writing in about it, I think it would be great if she could find a friend to talk about this with, because sometimes it's like the tabooness of it almost makes it like stronger, like not talking about it.

So one thing. You feel like you're bad. Yes. Yes. One thing that I'm curious to hear your take on it that I think. So for all that being said, normalizing it, et cetera, et cetera, it happens. I do think that it might be a warning sign that she needs to lean in to her relationship to try to find like we had talked about in the intro some excitement or some of this like

churning up of body chemistry or something. it might be a good little wake-up call of like I need to lean into my relationship a little bit more. I need to find some excitement there a little bit more. I need to spice things up a little bit more. And one of the ways to do that is to increase your level of emotional intimacy with your partner. So I might recommend telling him how she feels. And I don't know what you think about that. Really? Interesting.

I'm trying to just think like how I would feel on the receiving end of that. And I think if it was phrased correctly or like in the right way, I might, I think I'd prefer that to someone cheating on me. Yes. For sure. Do you know, right? Sure. Because you're like getting ahead of it, which is the. Yeah.

And it's sort of like, I think it's a gesture in some ways of like, I'm doing this because I want more intimacy with you. I want to feel closer with you. I've kind of given this some thought. And I realize that maybe part of why I'm doing this is because I'm like, craving, there is excitement in emotional intimacy. Like we talked about, maybe the idea of like you being interested in people that weren't interested in you, I'm sure there'd be some serious butterflies if she thought about having this conversation with her husband. Like that would be something that would be super exciting, quote unquote, or, you know, shifting up her body chemistry.

If she was like, all right, we're going on to dinner tonight or we're going to be home alone and I'm going to like bring up this idea that I have found myself in these situations and all the things she said, I love you. I'm not looking to leave our relationship. In fact, the reason I'm bringing this up is because I want to work together and feel closer to you and not like I'm dealing with this situation on my own. I'm dealing with it together with you. And these are the things. And I have some tips in terms of what maybe she can do to get some of this back with her husband. But it would be easier if he was involved in the process versus you, you know, kind of, it's like showing up one day and like some sexy lingerie with a new toy. And he's like, what is going on? If it feels like it's

just like out of the blue versus him realizing like, okay, this is what we're doing here. Like we're working on kind of creating new excitement and working on our relationship. Then it just feels like, all right, I'm it. I want to do this, you know. Right. No, I like that. You said you have specific tips or that was the. Yeah, yeah. No. So like coming back to this idea, of like your emotions live in your body is like creating that feeling of excitement. Like your therapist telling you like go on vacation, I think for them doing something new together. So like, you know, whatever it might be, like even we talked about like go bungee jumping or make a plan. Right. Take a class. Do something that's going to be new and exciting and like churn up some of that little bit of anxiety.

But together, you know, we talked about The Bachelor a couple of weeks ago. with this idea of like, why do they fall, why do these people fall in love in six weeks so hard? And part of that is like this psychological design of like they make them like repel down the side of a building together. Right. And this is already in this new stage of like honeymoon butterfly just getting to know you. But I think that idea of like repelling down a mountain with somebody is like I have these feelings of excitement.

I'm looking to you like we're doing this together. there's like a chemical bonding that happens when you are going through a super intense situation. It's even like, you know, I think I spoke a few weeks ago about like the Teach for America thing where it's like you're going through that like are people that go through. I mean, I'm not comparing Teach for America to war, but like people that go through like war together. Look at hazed. Yes. Yes. Perfect example. Why do they do that hazing? Because it like bonds. people together because they've been through this like adrenaline pumping, super tense, hard experience together.

So even like taking on a household project together, doing something that's going to require like physical energy and effort and like the idea of like getting through a journey together, I would add something like that. So that's my first tip is like creating some excitement, doing something out of your comfort zone together and not just one time. So my second tip is planning regular time that's like your time together, like a date night or whatever, something where you get out of your routine and you spend time both doing the same thing at the same time.

Because a lot of times if you're in the house, you're like, okay, we're going to watch a movie together. They've been together 10 years. Right. So that's a long time. Yes. I was because I was wondering if the fact that she's been in a committed long-term relationship since she's 20 and has always been in.

sounds like if you're, to me, if you're in four to five relationships before you turn 20, you're always in a relationship. Yes. So I do wonder, and she says I'm not, I've always had a small fear of commitment. And I do wonder if that's also part of this, just the idea that it's always been very easy for her to get into relationships. So maybe there's an element of taking them for granted or just always, because it's so easy to get into another relationship, you maybe sometimes devalue the one you're in to an extent.

Right. for sure. I could see that. And I think she, you know, she made a point to say it's not that I feel like I'm missing out on something or that she wants to be single again or I think she's just seeking this kind of little bit of a rush. And I have a feeling and maybe even talking with her husband about it, maybe he would say something like, yeah, I find people attractive or I watching porn together and seeing that he's getting excited about another woman might make her be like, whoa, okay. Like he's got, You know, that might give her a little jolt of something. Feeling something, yeah.

I mean, I'm not saying it's the health. You know, that's like, I think emotional intimacy is the best way. But it can't hurt to kind of be like, all right, we're actually having a real conversation about this. He's sharing his thoughts about how he feels about other people. I'm sharing my thoughts about how I feel about other people. That feels like intimacy. You know, it's scary.

And yeah, it might be a little hurtful or a lot hurtful. but I think that that's better than you just keeping it in, going through it on your own, which is only going to create more distance in the relationship. And it might be really fun to repair together and do some of this stuff that I'm talking about and sharing your feelings. And also like changing up sex, I think might be something that you can do that's really fun together. And that, so this is almost like the precursor. I think I was saying that like sometimes when people cheat,

it ends up being like not a good thing for the relationship because it's really hard to get over, but it does end up forcing you to reevaluate the relationship and pay more attention to it, change things up, increase intimacy. And this is actually like the perfect time to do it because nothing has happened that you can't recover from yet. Right. Yeah, there's no betrayal yet. So you could get like the intimacy of getting back together in a relationship like this, but without actually being betrayed.

Right. Or losing the trust. Totally. The best of all worlds. So I guess you're saying like she doesn't need an intention because she should just, it's not something she, it's not like a thought that she should just try to get through, right? She should just confront it almost instead of giving herself an intention, right? I mean, I did write an intention for her. And what I wrote is I will welcome this reminder to fuel my relationship.

So when she finds herself crushing on someone, instead of, like feeling like, oh, I'm a terrible person. What's the matter with me? Like I, I need to stop this. I need to stop doing this. Like, you know, maybe what does this mean about me and my relationship to just be like, okay, here's a little alarm bell that like we've been together for 10 years. I need, I can't just let this relationship run on autopilot. Like I have to do something and lean into this and feel like I'm really actively working on keeping things exciting in my relationship and doing new things together and changing up sex and talking about deep feelings that wouldn't come out otherwise. That's a positive way to put it. I like that. Yeah. And look,

I think if you're going too far into this, I normalize it, but it's also, it's a warning. It's like, okay, I got to put this energy back into my relationship. Right. Which I can see after 10 years, it doesn't always happen like that, you know. Yeah, you might need to shake things up of it. Yeah. Have fun. Try it. Have fun. Let us know. Give us an update. I'd love to know how he takes it. Especially if you talk to him about it, which I know it's going to be a tough conversation. I'm not minimizing that. But I think the alternative is not having the conversation and just constantly putting all this energy into other people, which I think she's realizing is not where her energy needs to go. Okay, let's play some triggered. All right. Let's do it. I'll read this first one.

Dear Dr. Naomi and Jordana, I've been listening to your podcast for a while. Finally, have a story to share. A few months ago, I lost my mom to cancer. It's been an extremely challenging time for me dealing with grief and loss, but on most days, I'm doing okay. I have supportive friends and coworkers who provide a listening ear when I need to unload my feelings, which I greatly appreciate. However, recently, a coworker slash friend of mine sent me an illustration titled, Reminders that passed away loved ones are visiting you. For reference, she's in her early 40s, and I'm in my late 20s. She often sends me cringy, memes and TikTok videos. So I'm not surprised this is coming from her. Some quote reminders listed

are feelings, cardinals, song lyrics and songs, feathers found, coins, flickering lights, and butterfly visits. I don't believe in any of these quote signs and I think this is dumb. She sent me things like this before, including inspirational quotes. I know she's trying to be kind, but I hate receiving these types of messages and I end up having to text her back. Thank you when I don't actually care. I find these memes triggering because I'm on my own journey of overcoming grief and don't need quotes or pictures of butterflies to lift me up. This bothers me more than it helps me.

I would love to know your thoughts on whether I'm justified in feeling triggered and how I should address this with my coworker moving forward. Thanks for all you do. I feel like it's relatable, even if it's not about, obviously, this particular grief situation. I think just the idea of like getting constant jokes or, or videos or something from someone that you are not, they're not really realizing that you're not interested in that.

Right. I totally could see how this would feel like cringy and annoying if this is not your type of thing. Like there are some people that would love this and be like, oh my gosh, I just saw a butterfly this morning. Thank you so much for sending this. Like this feels so like this is perfect timing. So my thought on this is you need some communication because there are people that maybe received this well that are more into this type of thing. You're not one of them and you're being

polite, which is nice. But I think, again, having that kind of tough, awkward conversation where you say, like, thank you so much. I really appreciate that you keep that you have me and my grief in your thoughts. But this is just not my type of thing. It's funny. I thought you were going to say, just ignore her. Like, don't say thank you. And she'll get that. Yeah, but it's like a friend and she keeps doing it. I guess. That's what I'm saying. She says thank you every time. She's like, oh, the person, maybe maybe the other end of it.

She's like, oh, she keeps acknowledging these things that I sent her. She's thanking me for them. To me, the thank you is like almost as bare bones as it gets aside from like, I guess she could just completely ignore it. Like, thank you is like, I guess. Received. Yeah. I mean, where can you go from there? Received, I guess is the next, or thumbs up.

Right. Yeah. No, I guess you could say that. It sounds like, if you don't want to say, it's obviously not something that you find cringy or stupid. You could say, I don't really like reminders. Right. Yeah, that's a good way of fear.

You could go that. And I think it's kind of weird that the person wouldn't know or even think that, even if she did think she was sending some amazing piece of content over to her. Like to me, if I had a friend who was dealing with losing a parent, I wouldn't assume that they just liked, random reminders of that in the middle of their workday. Right. Well, it is hard because I think on the flip side, sometimes people, like we've had people, I think right in here, at least I know people that would be like, nobody's, nobody like checked in.

And I guess a check in could be like, how are you doing or like, how are you feeling today versus like, oh, your mom died, just letting you know in case you forgot. You know, like I think there might be other ways to do a check in. but I think some people might like this idea of like, I haven't forgotten your grief, you know? That's true. Yeah. I can see that.

But again, you can say I haven't forgotten your grief by just being like, hey, how's it going today? Or how are you feeling today without like. How are you doing? Right. I think a way that if the person doesn't want to talk about, they'll be like, I'm good. And then just talk about something else. Yeah.

So, I mean, if this is a friend of hers, that's the difference, right? If this is just like an annoying person that you don't even care. to continue to have a relationship with, then yeah, maybe you can just ignore it, like you said. Or I like what you said. Thank you. I really don't like reminders. You know, thanks for thinking of me, but I really don't like reminders is maybe something she could say.

But if this is a friend, I think she can kind of tell her how she needs to be cared for. And it's not with this spiritual stuff that she's not really connecting with. And she just finds annoying. I guess it depends on how much she cares about. this relationship. If you care about the relationship, you might want to say, like, I really, I do appreciate that you're continuously thinking about me and what I'm going through. This type of stuff is not my thing, which is the most offensive thing. Like, she didn't write it. She's just passing it along. And she kind of has to know that. But triggering, I could,

I honestly could see this. It's almost like, I don't know, whatever you're, it feels like I don't even, it makes you not want to open up to people. If you're, if you tell them. them something and then they're like injecting themselves in a way that makes it feel worse. It just feels like. Yeah. And then you have to do the work of like talking to them about it. Right. Or even just responding. Right.

Like having to formulate a response to acknowledge the thing that someone's doing that you don't even like. Yes. Yeah. Now it's like putting more on her plate in addition to losing her mom. So I could, I definitely, I feel like this is, I could see how this could be triggering for her. The ignoring, I don't, I mean, yeah. I don't know if ignoring is going to make it stop. Yeah.

Your way is probably the more mature way. I'd give us a five though. Yeah. I would agree. I would even give this like a six just because of the like skin crawly, cringy part of it, you know? Right. I don't know.

Adding on an extra layer. Yeah. Just like, it's not a butterfly. Like stop. Right. Or take the hint. Right. Let's do one more.

Hi, Dr. Dan and Dr. Naomi, love the pot and all the bedges content. Thanks for all you do. I have a triggered scenario I'm hoping to get your take on. I live in a major city. My best friend, she was my maid of honor, did as well until about 18 months ago when she moved to the suburbs after eight years in the city. She doesn't have kids yet, but wanted to buy. And so her and her husband decided to move to the suburbs where they could buy what they refer to as their forever home.

Other than events for my wedding last year, she has rarely come to the city for plans with Mason she moved 18 months ago. The city is only a 30 to 40 minute drive and there is a great train option as well. The only time she has come to see me has been adding on to other plans. For example, she had a shower in the city for another friend. We went to dinner the night before and she stayed over for an easier morning drive. We had a friends going away party and she stayed over and we went to brunch the next day to celebrate my birthday. She was out of town for. Each time, there also seems to be a rush to leave. Like she will say, I have to be heading back to the suburbs by 1 p.m. because I have to run errands or something similar. Other than that, if I want to see her, I have

to go to the suburbs. It irritates me because she comes out to the city for other things, mostly with her husband's family or other not as close friends. But if I suggest we do something in the city, she seems to always come up with an excuse. My husband and I have been to the suburbs many, many times for dinner, workout classes or barbecues with them. So it's not like we aren't making an effort. Additionally, I introduced her to another friend and her husband who live in the same suburb as them, and the four of them hang out all the time, but never extend an invite to us. Do I have the right to be triggered? I would get it if she had kids or other major priorities. But in my opinion, there's really no reason that it shouldn't be

a somewhat fair tradeoff, especially when all the cool places are in the city anyway. Thanks so much, just missing my friend, Betch. I'm curious to hear your perspective on this because you had, like, you were in the city and you had friends in the suburbs. Now you're in the suburbs. I'm sure you're friends in the city. There's always this dynamic of like, who's making more effort for the get together. Yeah. I mean, I think she's being a little, the writer seems like she's being a little annoying. Personally. Like the friend comes in. She's like madded her for trying to make it convenient for herself. Right. Which I think we're all naturally inclined to do. She's saying it's only 30 to 40 minutes, but it's still like a trip. So she's annoyed that she's trying. It's not like she's not seeing her.

It seems like she's annoyed that she's adding other things onto the visit. Right. When I would just be like, great, she's like working out her schedule to make sure that she gets some time with me. Totally. It's like she wants it to just be, she wants like the effort. Like she wants her to almost like be a little uncomfortable or go out of her way to show effort in the relationship. And maybe that's because the writer feels like every time I come to see you, it's just to see you. Right. Because there's nothing quite as convenient in the suburbs. Right.

So I think there is a little bit of like a tit for tat mentality, which is never great in relationships where it's kind of like, well, I come in and I just come to see. you. And when you come in, you get to like multitask and do a bunch of stuff. And that doesn't feel fair. I think if she's seeing her as much as she would like to see her, I think that that's fine. I also think when they're about to make plans, she can say, you know, hey, would you mind coming into the city? You know, I came out the last few times or if that's what she feels like is happening. It does sound like what's happening is she's making the effort more of the time. And maybe this is a matter of communicating that. But this is a sticky situation. I find myself personally in this situation a lot where it's like who's going to, how do you, everyone has their own different

set of circumstances. And it's like you're putting everything on a scale and like weighing. Whose circumstances equate who needs to do. Right. Who's putting in more effort. Right. But she doesn't, I mean, she says she comes in to see friends who are, she's less good friends with. It's like she might be coupling that with a bunch of other shit too. You don't just not telling you or every time you see her on Instagram, she's not saying what her whole schedule is. And then when it comes to the couple that they introduce them to, to me, she's like, I'm not inviting you to these dinners in the suburbs because I know you're not going to want to come all the way out to the suburbs. Right. Right. Which I'm sure she's getting that vibe, perhaps, that she's not loving coming out there.

Yeah. I mean, I relate to the friend to an extent. I mean, and I had friends who were, who lived in the suburbs when I lived in the city. And I agree, there is like some sort of sense of, you know, who's making the effort more. And to me, it would be kind of like, when I lived in the city, it made sense that other people came in to see me because there's other stuff going on that they would need to couple it with.

Like to me, you could see this person and that person also. You could go to your hair person who's in the city or whatever. Some people work in the city, that kind of thing. And now that I live in the suburbs, I'm like, yeah, it's my, I don't expect the city people to come out to me, really. But if I'm going in,

then I'll know I'll make an effort, especially if I'm doing something else already. Like I think the weirdest thing that the emailer is that she's upset that she's trying to make it convenient for herself. Right. To me is obvious. Right. Maybe there's a bigger picture thing of like not feeling prioritized as a friend.

So if that's the case, I would look into what that is. Like I don't think it's about this, you know, that she's adding on combining. Like I actually love when that happens because then it's like now it's more convenient for you. So I don't have to feel so bad. badly about this. Like, I don't have to feel guilty. Yeah, or so much pressure on the thing that you came all the way in for this thing. It's like, oh, if you had something else going on already, then it can be a casual thing like it used to be when we both lived in the city. Right, right,

totally. Yeah, I agree with you. I think maybe there is a bigger issue of like, for some reason, you need to have a conversation about your friendship or the priority that you're taking in her life or how you think she's feeling. It does sound like maybe she's kind of like leaning out into her own suburban life where like even when she's coming out there, she's like running home to do errands. And, you know, that kind of thing. I think is a moment to sort of be like, I was real so excited to actually like spend some time with you. And it seems like you're in a rush to go home. Like what's up with that? You know? Yeah. I think that's a great point like you said about her leaning into her suburban life. I think there's sometimes and I've seen this happen recently even before

I left the city or when other people left the city and then when I left, there's this feeling of kind of a sadness of like the end of an era, you know, like I think, especially when I think about me and my friends, when we all lived in the city in our 20s and we were, you know, before anyone had families or was married and everyone was just kind of hanging out with each other all the time and doing stuff together all the time. And then people get older and they get married and they have kids and it's sort of like the friendships become these secondary things. And it be, there is like a sadness. Yeah. I think in that where, these people that you kind of thought of is almost instead they were they were in place of your

partners they're now have like a real like a family and and kids that are relying on them and a lot more to do i know she said the person doesn't have kids yet but you know she's got like a different life now and i think that's natural home depot and getting paint colors or you know whatever she's doing that's not part of her city life that feels like ah you're in a whole different world now like we were in a world together yeah now we're in like two separate worlds and i think that's it's kind of sad. And maybe she's maybe taking that out. She almost feels better to project it as a little bit of like an anger towards that life not existing anymore. And whose fault is that? It's her fault. She left 18 months ago. And she makes, she made a point to mention she doesn't have kids yet.

They bought their forever home. Like she's moved on to this other stage. Yes. And maybe left her behind. And there's a sadness in that. But you can't really get mad at someone for that. So she's maybe trying to make it more about the amount of effort that she's putting in. Fair or unfair. Like let's, you know, know, take out the scorecard. I totally agree. I think that's a great point. And I, I think it's a great entry point into a conversation with her about it. Like, I'm feeling sad, if this is how she feels, we're assuming. But I think, you know, I'm feeling sad that like you moving is sort of like the end of an era. I'm here. I have so and so and so and so. But we used to be this big group of people. Or I used to have so many friends. And now I feel like I'm kind of, you know, I'm still here,

but everyone else is moving on. And I could see if this person had kids and they were like absorbed into their life with their family and their kids, it would almost be like, okay, well, that's what it is. So I have to just accept it and deal with it. But since she doesn't, it feels kind of like it's not okay to feel sad about that because she still could do it. But I think there, yeah, it is probably a shift in the dynamic, which is what needs to be addressed and maybe addressing it with vulnerability and saying, like,

like I feel a little lonely or a little left behind or a little like just sad that we're like moving on in our lives and you know, these are the things that have happened that make me feel that way. And maybe that might be a good entry point into like I want to be included in the dinner invites or maybe you guys can come into the city and we can like do like old times and go to this place that we used to go to or so I think that's a great way to phrase it and approach it. And I think you're probably right. there is this sadness when it's like it's almost like you get maybe sadness you get on a birthday like a decade birthday or something yeah or when college is ending or anything that's kind of just like

it's changing this period of your life is over it's a little that's just because it's sad doesn't mean it's wrong yeah and you know she could say come in like old times but i think it's okay like accepting like you're not going to see each other as much as you used to yeah it's just not going to happen yes and that's kind of life it doesn't mean you can't have great intimate experiences is when you do see each other. But it's, you know, life moves on. Yeah. And you hit the nail in the head where sometimes when people feel sad about a transition,

the easier emotion is like anger and it's not fair. And they kind of like wronged me in this way versus just accepting and, you know, allowing that sadness to exist about something that's changed. So that's a great point. I like that. And it's probably true. It happens all the time. Well, I think we help these people.

I hope so. these were some good these are some good questions keep them coming please give us updates all right that's our time great work today oversharing is produced by sean kilby horhe marilla spuccoe and rebecca salis mccane editing by miscellio Perez guest booking by alley freedlander send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363 6294