Oversharing - Should I Be The Cool Girl At The Expense Of My Comfort?

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Jordana and Dr. Naomi discuss the perils of growing up with social media and whether Instagram’s new restrictions on teen accounts can help. Our Overshare comes from a an exhausted Betch who had to share a bedroom with her husband’s gassy friends on vacation. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a thoughtful listener whose kind deed at work landed her in an awkward position. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for anxiety after an unexpected dog bite. And we’re feeling triggered by exes who propose on group trips and mother-in-law wedding outfit drama. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. Great to be back with you.

How was your weekend? Good. Big birthday weekend for you. And for Maddie, you guys are a day apart. So we celebrated at the Taylor Swift tribute concert, which I know you celebrated. That wasn't your birthday. That was just the thing you did a couple months ago. That was just a night out on the town.

It was like January. Wow, time flies. Right. Yeah, that was something I did in January with my friends. And I think I told the story here where like we didn't realize that it was very like mom, kid, heavy. We like pre-games. I was thinking about you all. I was thinking what would it be like if there were a bunch of 30-year-old women just drunk, like, running around here right now?

It was so funny how wrong we read this concert because we showed up drunk and like super late because we were like, oh, there's got to be like an opener or something. And not realizing, oh, it's like a school night. So it was what we showed up like 20 minutes before it ended. Oh, my gosh. That's actually really funny. Well, that was the total vibe. It was really fun. But everyone in there, I mean, not everyone, but the large majority were for sure under like 16, which was fun.

But at the end, she's shouting out her Instagram handle for the band. And I was just thinking, like, I hope none of these kids have social media at this age. It's at the under 16 age. Yes. I just, to me, it's really unhealthy and way too young. And so, well, can I ask, what is your, I feel like you have kind of a limited experience yourself with social media as someone who's just like, didn't really come of age in the time of social media. I feel like for me, I almost like was there when it started. And you like, I don't think is anyone your age like obsessively on social media? Yeah. People are. Really? Yeah, for sure. Because it's so addictive. It's addictive for everybody. It's literally addictive for everybody. And there are definitely people in their 40s and 50s

that are addicted to social media, just like teenagers. Yeah. I mean, I guess you got on at an age, and even I got on at an age, where, like, we weren't growing up with it. I think I got Facebook, like my senior year of high school, maybe my, and that was like people were just starting to get on there. I don't think anyone really knew what they were doing with it.

and then Instagram, like, after I already graduated college. And you're probably what? And you're like late 20s and 30s when you're on, when you got on Facebook and Instagram? Yeah, probably late 20s. Yeah. And it's really true that I do think it matters when you start because when your whole sense of self is forming

and you're on these social media platforms, it's like your sensitivity to social reward. and punishments. And, you know, we talk about, like, everything you're scared of and everything that you crave, like, you're seeking and your avoidance all comes from your experiences of things that make you feel good and things that make you feel bad. So when I was growing up and you, too, when you're 11 and 12 and 14, you go to school and maybe someone, like, someone called my hair like a rat's nest, I remember in fifth grade.

And that was, like, really painful. But like, that was one time in person. Like, that was probably the meanest thing that someone said to me. But like when you're growing up with social media, you're coming home after school and on the weekends and you're having these social experiences where people are liking your pictures. They're not liking your pictures.

They're maybe making a negative comment, especially if it's like anonymously from some fake account or, you know, whatever. people are doing, you're being excluded from something that when I was a kid, I wouldn't even really know I was excluded from because I just didn't know about that everyone went to the Taylor Swift tribute concert without me. Yeah. I remember, I think the only thing I would, I would remember from that middle school, like if I wasn't invited to a bat mitzvah or something, and then on the Monday after school, everyone would be wearing like the sweatpants giveaway. And that's kind of how

you found out you weren't invited and you weren't like wearing the cool thing. But I agree. But it's also, it's interesting because you do get all this like negative stuff and the positive stuff that you're talking about. Like before you couldn't really get the instant positive feeling either. It was all kind of just like neutral. Sort of like a healthy relationship was. Yes. You know, and then the social media is kind of like a toxic relationship, which is really exciting and really bad when it's bad, but great when it's great. I remember even with Instagram being like, oh my God, do you see how many likes this picture got?

Yes. It's so true, and it creates that seeking mind that we keep talking about. Whenever you get that little jolt of, ooh, this, you know, I got this many likes on my picture, someone's commenting or, you know, whatever. It gives you that jolt, and then you're constantly seeking that. So your brain is even more wired in that mind.

of like seeking social approval, but now it's all day at school and then all day on the weekends. And a lot of these kids, maybe not kids, my kids age where they're young enough that their parents are on top of them, but 14, 15, they're up in their rooms at, you know, midnight on social media, seeing what everyone's doing, not to mention body image stuff and who's posting pictures in the most revealing outfit that's going to make their business. body look great and then maybe I need to up the ante to make my body look great and then feeling badly if you don't have that type, you know, all the stuff. And it's just, I think it's really unhealthy. And I think that they're, you know, from what I hear, they're coming out with restrictions

on. Yes. So in an attempt to, because I feel like, because I've seen all these like hearings that people are coming out against like meta or Facebook saying that like this is really. really, really bad for kids, almost like it was like with tobacco back in, you know, back in the day where they'd be like, actually, this is really unhealthy and there's not enough warnings and there's not enough labels and you need to increase the age. I couldn't agree more. It's actually like the Surgeon General came out and basically was saying, this is as bad as like cigarettes or the AIDS epidemic. Like we need to be warning parents. The suicide rates are skyrocketing. And this stuff is just not good for kids.

So I think them coming out and saying they're going to make restrictions, in my opinion, might not be the popular opinion. I guess something is better than nothing. Well, what are the restrictions? Let's talk about what it is. So they're introducing Instagram teen accounts, which is a new experience for teens guided by parents. And they have built in protections, which,

limit who can contact them and the content they see and also provide new ways to explore their interests. Instagram will automatically place teens into teen accounts and teens under 16 need a parent's permission to change any of these settings to be less strict. What I don't really understand is, I think that's basically it. What I don't understand is like these kids know how to use like phones better than their parents. How would they like enforce the restrictions? Right. Wouldn't it just be very easy to just, like, what do you need to do to, I guess maybe you need to put in a password to change the account settings or something? No clue. Or maybe you just create another adults. Can you just create another adult account that your parents don't know about? Right. Like lie about your

account. Right. Yeah, I guess they could probably get around it if they really wanted to, A, right, one critique. They could probably, I'm assuming they could get around it. B, I almost feel like this is like the cigarette company saying, well, we put three extra filters into every cigarette, so it's safer. Right. It's like, this is still not good. They're not going to prevent, you know, one girl from posting about all the girls that she had over on the weekend and how much fun they were having and the girl who wasn't invited seeing that.

They're not going to prevent that. They're not going to prevent, you know, teenage girls from posting, you know, pictures. in bikinis to get boys' attention, and then the girls who feel like they don't look good in bikinis feeling, like, crappy about themselves. I think it's them, it's almost, I feel like, a little bit of a sneaky way of being like, don't get rid of all the teen accounts.

We're going to make them safer, which I would really admire them if they said, no one can have an account under the age of 16. I would be really curious to see what would have happen to suicide rates and teen depression if they actually. And is that even enforceable? I guess that's the, again, to me, like, even if they said that, I just feel like, I mean, they say you're not allowed to buy alcohol under 21, right?

Right. But people figure out how to do it. But also it makes it harder. Yeah. I kind of like, I'm like, okay, maybe this is a good step. It does make it harder to do certain. You know what I think this is almost a good step against? This almost seems like more.

preventing, it almost seems like it's preventing maybe like internet predators more than the kids coming for each other. Yes, totally. And I honestly, it's two different issues. Two different issues. And I think the issue that's creating, I'm not saying that internet predators are don't, you know, are not a huge problem. But I think the issues that are driving most teens to the emergency room for psychiatric issues and suicidal ideation is, is not that. It's teen on teen social media aggression. Or not even aggression, just like feeling left out or having to be connected and needing that jolt of affirmation

all day, every day. That's really, I mean, even that's, I mean, if I'm being honest, that's why I don't participate on social media too much. I'm not saying I'm not on it at all. But like, that's why I don't do it. because even as an adult, a very mindful, conscious adult, I notice how addictive it is.

And that's for my very pretty well-developed brain as a psychologist. So for these kids that are just, you know, all they, what they really, they just want like candy and screens and to be well-liked by their peers.

That's it. Right. I mean, the little ones. Isn't that what we all want? So I don't know. think this whole thing is like actually making it seem better for parents. And I agree with you, they could get around it. But I think if everyone had to lie to get a social media account,

I think that would help. So you think that should be just banned under 16? Yes. That's my opinion. Okay. To make it almost again, like the alcohol 21 cigarettes. I don't know what, I think it's like 19, something like that. And then if none of them have it, none of them feel like they need to have it. it. It's like globalized. You know, then it's not like, well, so-and-so has it, and I need it to see what everyone's doing. It just helps everyone just get off of it. But then it's interesting because I think about, you know, the culture. Again, we're preparing it to drinking.

So I'm thinking about the culture around drinking. And there is a tendency maybe because it's illegal under 21 that American society has a lot of like binge drinking once you're, once you're 21 or if you get your hands on it, you're sort of more likely to binge, almost like if you're restricting foods. Right. Whereas, you know, you hear about this. I don't have any personal experience or that you hear about these countries in Europe where, you know, there's not really like an age and everyone just drinks normally. They'll have like a glass or two of wine or something. Totally. Totally. So I do wonder if the banning would create another sense of. Yeah. I guess a binge. Yeah. I hear it. I hear you. I hear you. I hear. I hear. I

I can hear you, but I'm almost like, how much worse can it get? I mean, if you look around at any social thing, like, I see teenagers out to eat all the time, and they're all just sitting around the table, like, together on their separate phones. Like, I don't know how much worse it really can get. But it's your point. I hear your point. And look, I think that they can find it other places, and it's not surprising. Because if they take it away, like, from what it, what?

what is that, Gen Alpha, right? If they take it away from them, they're going to lose their pull. I mean, yeah, maybe the second they turn 16, they're going to sign on and get their account, but I think it is going to make it a little bit less part of the culture and they'll probably lose money and revenue, not to mention all the ads that you're exposed to

when you're watching that are super targeted to all of your insecurities. Do you think people felt the same way about TV, when they came out. People were just going to be sitting in front of the TV all day, not like speaking to each other anymore. Yeah, interesting. I don't know. That's a good question.

And I'm sure people were kind of like, oh my gosh, my whole family is turned into zombies. Right. They just come home from work and they just sit in front of the TV all day. Totally. And there's a TV in the kitchen and there's TV everywhere. Totally. It's really true, actually.

I guess people were less conscious of like that because it was just this one day. TV. Now screens all in the house, out of the house, in the bathroom, everywhere you go. That's true. I mean, I have, part of me is like the banning could work or the, you know, the age restriction could work. Part of me thinks, like, is the solution more to just teach kids how to use it responsibly instead of like banning it or taking it away? And obviously there's a certain level of your brain needs to. to be like we don't want we don't want 12 year olds drive right even if you know we could teach them how right

but part of me is like okay bullying has happened since the dawn of time right I guess I get taking away an easier way to do it but like sort of like the it's almost like the teach a man to fish yeah I'm kind of like if because these things whether they get it at 16 it might be just as addictive or you know you're a little more developed so maybe it wouldn't be quite as bad but it's still bad So isn't the better root kind of teaching these kids from an early age? And I guess that's more on the parents, which is tough, to be like, this is how you use this responsibly or this is how you look deep within yourself and realize when it's going to be too much like you would with anything with them being approached to do drugs or, you know, with sex or anything like that? Totally. And I think that's a great point.

It's almost what we talk about. It's like if someone's triggering you is the answer just not to be around them or is the answer, to learn how to tolerate your own triggers. Like learn how to change your mindset, learn how to step away, process your feelings. Notice, oh, I'm thinking when I see this girl on my Instagram, I feel like not eating lunch, like to notice that you're having that thought. And that's a skill that will kind of take you through your whole life, I think.

A hundred percent. Although I think they're doing, I think the truth of the matter is, and as a parent myself, that's really hard to do. because you can't be there every second. It's really hard, especially when it's a phone and it's small and it goes right in their bag. And that's why I think iPads are a little better because it's almost like it's big. It's out. You can see that it's out and you can kind of lean over and be like, hey, what's going on?

Like let's talk about what are you looking at? How is it making you feel? But when it's that phone and it's just they're at it all the time, you can't have that constant And what you need is repetition of noticing, oh, this are the thoughts that come into my head when I'm looking at this imagery. I don't like the way that thought makes me feel. I can either not look at the imagery or I can be mindful of this thought that I'm having and just take responsibility for my own thoughts and not let, because like you said, you're

going to at some point be influenced by seeing that you are excluded from a party. is the answer not to ever know that you were excluded from a party or is the answer to learn how to tolerate the feeling of being excluded from a party? Right. I get that. I get that perspective too. I just think kids have enough stuff to deal with, puberty and bodies changing.

I mean, it's funny. I think about it all the time when I send my kids off to middle school. I'm like, if I had to go to one day of middle school right now, I feel like it would be like the worst day. Even with your brain right now? I mean, look, I tolerated. It would be fine, but there's just a lot of, like,

fear of people looking at you if you say the wrong thing. And then all the, you know how, like I'm sure you can think of right now, some kid in your middle school that got some name that then everyone's calling them. It's just like you have to walk on eggshells all day, like trying to stay out of the fire.

So, no, it's true. Anyway, yeah. My personal take, and others may disagree, I don't think it's beneficial. They'll have the rest of their lives to be on social media. It's hard enough to be a kid in middle school and high school that to add this in between the ages of 10 and 16, they're going to have the rest of their lives to be on social media. And that's what I tell. Maddie begs me and begs me and begs me for a phone.

And I just keep telling her, I'm doing this to protect your innocence. I'm doing this to protect your innocence. your childhood, you will have the rest of your life to be addicted to social media. And I tell her, I'm like, look at all the adults around you. And I try hard not to do it, but I say, when we go out, look at people around you that have phones. Their faces are buried in their phones. And I think it hits home with her. She doesn't really.

Is she the only one that wants it? Oh, that doesn't have a phone. Yeah, in her little friend group she is. I don't know about the school. but yeah. And the problem is that they're all, whenever they're bored, they take out their phone and she feels like she has nothing to do in that moment. Like she has to lean over and look over the shoulder of somebody else's phone, which then she feels like, you know, annoying. Right. Yeah. No, it's hard when it's just, that's the other part. It's like it's hard to be the only one. And that's

true for any kind of dangerous or bad behavior. It's like hard to be the only one not drinking. It's hard to be the only one not on their phone. Yeah, it's hard. Her birthday just came, like we said. She wanted that badly, and it's just, and it's also different kids, you know, like Lila has a phone, but she's never on it. It's just different kids.

And she's just not, right now, at least, she's not, like, seeking that social reward thing, which is a blessing that she, has in this moment. We'll see how long it lasts. But she just, you know, she'll use it for texting. She'll use it for, you know, I really almost never see her on it. So you have to know your kid, I think, too, and what they can tolerate. But social media, she does not have and they will not have. I think that's the bigger issue is the social media. Than the phone. The phone in general. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the phone with just like texting is kind of just another way to speak to

your friends. And I remember when I was in middle school and there was like aim, like AIM. Right. And that you'd go home after. I mean, at least that was just on, on your computer, but you'd go home after school and just like sit on the computer and just type, you know, like. And there was no imagery. There was no people posting pictures. I think that's really hard. And just that that constant barrage of imagery that creates that seeking mind. It just makes it. I mean, it's all over the place with advertisements and television, but then to have it in your pocket, we pull it out. And now you're just getting hit with, you know, who's prettier than me, who's doing more than me, who's more popular. It's just, it's too much. Their brains can't handle it. Exactly.

So bully people the old-fashioned way. That's our suggestion. Say it to their face. Yes. Great. Let's get into our show. And if you guys have thoughts, if you agree, if you disagree, Also, thank you guys for writing so many great reviews. I read all the reviews. There's been a lot more lately. I think we did a little call to action for them. So keep them coming. I really enjoy reading them.

It means me so excited to record and do this show. And it's just so nice. Oh, awesome. I'll have to check those out. Yeah, thank you so much. And again, I'm just so, I'm always like, speaking of a constant feedback loop. Right? Seriously.

It's so true. You could just find it wherever you seek it. but we do like it. So I'll take my little dopamine hit from y'all. What were you saying before that? Sorry. Just like, you know, for all the listeners, I'm just every week I'm amazed at how many different,

cool, interesting topics you send in. So I'm excited to get to those. So let's hit it. Let's do it. All right. If you guys have a voicemail you want to leave us, you can call 646-363-6294. Or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com.

Let's do our first overshare. share, I will read it. Dear Dr. Naomi and Jordana, I love you both. Thanks for all you do. I'll jump right in. My husband and I went on a summer trip with his group of friends. We were super delayed on our flight to the trip and arrived way after everyone had gone to bed. The friend

who was hosting showed us to our room which had multiple sets of bunk beds and a blow-up mattress for us to sleep on. His four guy friends were already asleep and two of them I didn't know prior to this trip. There were four couples who each had their own room and a bathroom as well. That

first night, I couldn't sleep at all. One of the guys had a breathing machine that kept beeping and humming randomly, and it drove me crazy. I'm not kidding, too, that they were farting all night. We were at altitude. I was exhausted, and the idea of doing this for five nights was overwhelming. I'm someone who really values my personal space, so I stayed calm and found a hotel just a four-minute walk away. It was affordable and seemed like a simple solution. The next morning, I calmly told my husband I wanted to get a room at the hotel so I could sleep well for the rest of the trip. He listened, but I could tell he didn't love the idea. He felt like leaving the group house would ruin the vibe and that I should just tough it out. But for me, it wasn't

about the vibe. I was tired and stressed and I just wanted my own space. In the end, I booked the hotel myself and paid for it, but my husband couldn't handle the awkwardness of me leaving the house. He thought it would make things weird with his friends. So I slept in the group room and didn't sleep for the next four nights. It totally ruined the trip, and I didn't mean to be dramatic, but this really hurt me. I've made compromises for him in the past to keep things smooth, and I just felt like this was not that much to ask. When we got home, I really talked to him about how I felt, but it still feels unresolved. My husband thinks getting the hotel was a bad move, and sticking it out was the right thing to do. I told him, had it been one to two nights, I would have been fine,

but five was just too many. Now, I'm still exhausted from the lack of sleep, and honestly, I'm mad at him. How do we move past this? Might sound small, but it really frustrated me and it made me feel misunderstood. Love sleepless and surrounded by farts. Oh my gosh. You came to the right place. I really validate. I think like one to two nights, you stick it out, five nights. I think you made the right move. Totally agree. And it's not like she's like 19. Yeah, the guy has a sleep machine. He's got to be at least in his 30s. I mean, they're married. Right. So to me, if I'm married, I'm like a past the age. I mean, again, I don't know how old she is.

She doesn't say how old she is. But if I'm a married person, I'm mature and I'm past the age of sleeping in a room with a bunch of four random men. Right. And with no bathroom on an air mattress for five nights. That's, I validate that that's crazy and I would never do that. Yeah. I think the husband probably was like feeling like a little nostalgia for the days when, you know,

everyone just crashed and we all just had a big party house. And I think it was almost like him trying to pine for the past. I don't know how long they've been married. And maybe he's just trying to relive his old days. But you're married now. You have a wife. She wants a bed. She wants to be able to take her shirt off and not feel like she has to go into a closet

to do that and put on her breathing strip as I do. and spreads her pillow with lavender and all the things that we need to do before we go to sleep. Yeah, and she's angry with him because I think maybe there is this stuckness on like, but I want to just be like chill and carefree. I don't want this married life of having to, you know, not be able to crash on the floor anymore kind of thing. Yeah, I'd be angry at him too. I think it's sort of, especially if it's his friends,

I feel like it's your job to make sure that your partner is comfortable, even more so when you're around people that they're not that comfortable with. Right. Yes. And I don't think it would ruin the vibe if there was a four-minute walk. Four minute walk. Right. You can hang out all day and then when it's time to go to sleep, yes. You can go right back to the hotel room just like everyone else,

all the other couples would go back to their room. Right. And it's not even like they'd have to not drink because they have to drive home. Like they can literally walk home. They could stay till the very end and then just like walk home and fall asleep in a bed and privacy. And honestly, I think the husband sounds like a bit people pleasery. And that's probably irritating her.

Like, why not be people pleasing to me? That's exactly what I would say. I think couples have this issue a lot where it's like you're a people pleaser, but not when it comes to me. Like, you want to please everybody else, but like I'm the last one on your people pleaser list. Because I think anyone would understand if she said, hey, you know, we'd like some privacy.

It's five nights. Maybe they want to have sex. Like, whatever. Who knows? I mean, it's a vacation. They took time off work. Like, I don't think it's so crazy that a married couple or even a non-married couple is going on vacation and they want their own space.

And if anyone was upset about that, that's kind of on them. So, yeah, I really validate this. I do not think that this is. And it's like she knew that this was going to be her sleeping arrangement before she went on this trip. Like they got there late. Clearly everyone else took the other rooms. Right.

And she presented a solution. She paid for it. Like, this guy's really annoying. Yeah. I would be, I totally, I totally feel her. And I think that's the conversation she needs to have. It's like, I should, I'm your wife. I need to be your number one part.

I told you I'm not comfortable. Like where does that end? Where's the line where like my discomfort is taken seriously? Totally. Yeah, I agree. And I think this is when as you age, when you get a house, you ask all the questions. How many people are going?

How many rooms are there? What are the bed arrangements? So this will be the last time this ever happens to you because you, I'm sure, will be asking all the questions next time before you sign up for a group house. rental. Well, do you feel like they, when you're she saying like she can't get past it or can't get over it? Like, what do you think she would need to get to get over this? Yeah, I think she needs him to

wake up and be like, that was very reasonable and rational. And I was being a people pleaser and that was really annoying and that will never happen again. Like I think she just needs, I think he's not giving that to her. He's still making it like you were the one that was wrong and you should have toughed it out for five nights. And I, you know, I think with couples, there sometimes is this like a differing level of tolerance for being uncomfortable. And that can be like a conflict in the relationship because one person's like, yeah, I want to be able to go visit my buddy from college and like stay in his one bedroom apartment.

And someone's like, no, it's not worth it to be. Like I would rather. Right. That doesn't sound fun to me. Right. Right. So now it's a question. of are you like the chill girlfriend that's going to just like come with me to visit my friend?

Or do we have to make a whole vacation out of this with like a hotel and now we can't just play video games still two in the morning and fall asleep on the couch? And you see this about like I think even lower level stakes things or just a bar for discomfort. Like if you're ever been in a hotel with Jeff and like the air conditioning isn't working like exactly correctly as you want. And like one person's like, all right. like it's, you know, we'll open the window. And the other person's like, no, we need to like change the room.

We need to call down and complain, change the room. And it's, it is funny. That's usually I feel like where these things manifest. Yes. I think the fear, the ultimate fear for him is what was that series that everyone was watching? White Lotus. Yes, White Lotus.

The guy who was like complaining constantly about the room. Oh, no, was it? The Pineapple Sweet. Yes. I think his fear is that she's going to be. like the pineapple sweet person, like down the line. Right. And he needs to just chill out and realize, like, this is a reasonable request.

She's not going to turn into the pineapple sweet guy. Right. And she offered a solution. Yeah. I don't know. I'd be mad at him too. I would need to, like, really hammer that. Hammer that in.

Yeah. I just feel like my comfort needs to be like a priority to you because your comfort's a priority to me. Yeah. And I wonder if there was kind of like a sexual, layer to it too where he like didn't really seem to be interested in that for whatever reason while they were away which you think she he'd be kind of like psyched like okay cool let's get our own room we have our own room sounds fun so yeah but look if he doesn't give and he's going to stand his

ground i mean one thing she can do is be like why you know she can ask the question of like is there a bigger fear like that i'm not going to be able to like do things because i always need to be comfortable, like, is there something else that, because the solution seemed pretty simple, or, like, maybe she can dig, like, do you feel like you're on the outside of the group or you'd be afraid of being on the outside of the group? Yeah. I was wondering if that was maybe it. Like, he was kind of, like, didn't want to, like, FOMO. FOMO or, like, doesn't, he wants to feel like he's part of everything. Maybe he has a feeling like he'll be left out. Right. Which is, I'd be like not a, most men, I think, would be uncomfortable, probably talking, being

vulnerable in that way and talking about that among their friends of being like, I don't know if, you know, if I'm like fully accepted and I don't want to. Right. I want to make sure I'm here for everything so that I'm on the house. Like that would be it. That would be, if that was his explanation, I think that would be more understandable. Yeah. So I think she could ask some questions to try to find out like why did this, why can't you just

tell me that it would have been a better trip if we had our own room? Like, why can't you just own up to that? It would have. For sure. It sounds like he wanted like a slumber party. And like, what is that about? Because the solution was pretty simple and easy. So, yeah, I would ask those questions.

And if he still won't give, then you just have to divorce. You just have to accept that on this one, you know, agree to disagree. But if it's a big issue. Well, now you know next time. Yes. Also, you could say next time, before I go on, we go on any trip trips with your friends, like, I need to know all the arrangements. I need to know where I'm sleeping because clearly like when I'm there, you're not going to help me handle it if it doesn't go well. So if I need to know before we go on any other trips, like what my arrangements are.

Now you've taken responsibility for any further neuroses that happen on these trips and it's all your fault. Yeah. He will pay one way or another. Next up. Okay, let's do batches. Do you want to read it? Yes, I will read this. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi.

I've been thinking about a sticky situation I found myself in recently that I appreciate your advice on. I work the front desk at a large doctor's office slash rehab center. I have about 50 to 60 coworkers who have various roles and responsibilities, doctors, nurses, physical therapists, social workers, nursing aids, etc. And who I regularly see and speak to on a weekly basis. It can often be a stressful environment. we pride ourselves on teamwork and the support we've built working so closely together.

We often celebrate birthdays, baby, wedding, showers, retirements, et cetera, as a group in the office, sometimes pooling money to buy pizza, a cake, et cetera, to feed the office. Recently, one of my coworkers, let's call him Tom, took an extended period of leave after his mother was diagnosed with serious and degenerative illness, requiring him to be at home to care for her while his family organizes long-term care plans. He was open about this need for absence, so it became common knowledge throughout our staff. As a show of support, I emailed the rest of the office to organize a collection to send him and his family a gift card for a food delivery app during this stressful time. Tom and I started around the same time, and he's one of my better

friends at work, so it seemed right and appropriate to do something. I received about $200 in donations. I sent it to Tom, who expressed his immense gratitude in an email to our staff. A few days later, a different coworker informed me that another member of staff, let's call her Sarah, was upset after hearing about the collection for Tom since her grandmother had recently passed and there was no response from staff and or a similar collection. This death was complete news to me as I had not heard about it from Sarah herself or any of the other staff who were closer to her. I immediately felt sympathy for Sarah, but also a bit defensive over her implying that her grief

was disregarded as well as her overall bitter tone towards the well-intentioned shows of support for Tom. I know they say no good deed goes unpunished, but I don't feel responsibility to know the nuances of every co-worker's personal lives if they aren't openly sharing it. Makes me wonder if other staff have felt similarly about past events or parties, and if they also felt overlooked but said nothing. If one of Sarah's closer friends at work had known about the grandmother's death, shouldn't or couldn't they have organized something? Even something as simple as passing a card around. I feel conflicted since the situation makes me want to stop these kinds of group displays cold turkey in order not to ruffle feathers. On the other hand, I do think

these kinds of things are done with good intention and promote a positive working environment and bonding among staff. I never want anyone to feel like there's a popularity contest at work, but I'm not sure what the middle ground is. Do you have any advice on how to handle future situations like this? Thank you again, a no good deed betch. This is an interesting one. Yeah, she's a sweetie. I like her. She doesn't have to do any of this. Yeah, this seems like a really nice gesture.

And it's funny, like the no good deed goes unpunished thing that she's mentioning, like, is sometimes the case where it's like, you know, to do one nice thing for someone, it's like people see it. And then it becomes about what you're not doing for them or what other people aren't doing for them. And I think that's a certain kind of person that usually has that mindset. Mm-hmm. Although, I mean, I guess I could see why you might be upset about if you told people and no one said or did anything and then you see someone else with a similar situation. But it sounds like she didn't know. And I don't know if she told anyone. Right.

I can validate maybe feeling a little badly to see someone else get acknowledgement that you didn't. Totally. And then I guess the only person that you sort of can blame is the person that organized it. Because who else, you know, I think what this other woman is probably upset about, Sarah, is that nobody organized something for her and she feels like probably nobody cares about me. It's really not about this listener who's like doing the nice thing. She didn't even know about it. So I think it's Mr.

directed anger. And maybe even it's not, I'm trying to look back in here and see somebody repeated to her. Like I wonder how that. Someone told her. Maybe it was like that was a feedback she had gotten because she did it. Maybe like don't do it again because someone's, it's upsetting some people.

Right. Or this person. Right. Right. Right. Right. Which honestly, I hope you don't go that route. I think if you know about something and you have the bandwidth to do something nice,

there's no committee for the person who like does the nice things in the office. So you taking responsibility for that even on one person, that's great. You did that. Like you should continue to feel good about that. What you could do is if you see Sarah, you could just come up to her and say, I had no idea that your grandmother passed away. I'm so sorry if I would have known. I definitely would have tried to, you know, um, show a, you know, gather a show of support for you. And then what's she going to say at that point?

Like I think she could just address it. And then she's like doubling down on doing the right thing. I don't even think she has to do that, but that would kind of be like, all right. The nicest thing. The nicest thing that you could do. Yeah. Right. And I agree.

I think it's more about Sarah and her own feelings of being seen or being heard. And I don't know if she told anyone, but maybe it's her kind of being mad at herself and it's easier to be angry than sad. Yeah. If she's feeling isolated, maybe it's easier to feel angry at someone else for not giving her attention

than to feel sad that maybe she hasn't formed as many connections at work. Yes. Or that she didn't feel comfortable telling a lot of people. Yes, I think that's exactly what it is. You hit the nail on the head. I agree with that completely. I think she has her own sadness and grief

around not having the connections. You know, this other guy was really open about everything that happened. And that's, you know, and then you get that. It's almost like, if you don't tell anyone it's your birthday, you're not going to get a cake, you know? Right. That's right. You can't both be like, kind of keep to yourself and have the strong social,

you know, the positives that come with a strong social network. Yeah. So look, maybe this, I mean, I don't, unless Sarah is a listener, um, she's not going to get this advice. But like, maybe it's good for Sarah to kind of. I realize if I am seeking a little more support in my life, I have to be more open about what I'm going through. And maybe in her mentioning it to the other coworker like, oh, I felt badly, it should have just been I felt badly. It shouldn't have been, oh, it's listeners' fault that I feel

badly. You keep being you. You sound super sweet. The fact that you're even writing in about this, the fact that you took this on your own to do this for someone and your first, what I was kind of What I loved about her is that her initial response to this was feeling bad for Sarah when I think a lot of people's initial response would be like, you know, fuck that bitch. Yeah. I mean, my initial response was like, it's also, I also think it's like a little different when you have like a grandmother die versus your like parents. He's take, you're right, it's his parent.

He's taking off to take care of her. Right. Like money in service of like him doing something like just seemed like a. different kind of scenario also. And that was, again, I don't know if you can compare traumas or tragedies or whatever it is, but I did think it was a different scenario also. Right. The gift card was like an actually useful thing that he might need.

If he's like taking care of her full time, maybe trying to get some work done from home, doesn't have time to be like making food. It's like a useful thing that he's actually. And he's taking like a leave of, he's taking a very public like leave of absence. to do this. It's not like, again, not that grandmother's dying is not important, but it wasn't like, oh, my entire family died in a car accident. Like, no one said anything. Right, right, right, right. A little bit, um, I don't know, it did seem like a little bit of a, she's that kind of person thing, which I, my immediate thought was like, you're annoying. Yeah. Yeah. I, look, I get it.

And I, and I do feel bad for her and she felt left out, but I keep, keep being you. I think you're a sweetie. this was awesome. Keep doing what you do. And if you have the bandwidth and you hear about all these things, sounds like she would be more than happy to have passed around a card. I don't think people want to keep donating $50

every time someone has like something stressful or difficult in their life, but certainly passing around a sympathy card is easy enough. Right. Agreed. All right. Let's do some intentions.

I will read them. Hydrodana and Dr. Naomi. I love y'all's show. and I'm so glad I found it late because I've been enjoying binging the backlog. Great thing about this show. If you send it to someone, there's tons of episodes for them to listen to. Not time sensitive. I'm Drew Dina's age and my big sister is Naomi,

so it's so fun listening to y'all's dynamic. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. So my question is a little different than most because it's about my relationship with dogs. I love dogs. I've had mine since college, and my husband has had his since his early 20s as well. so they are now both geriatric.

Dogs have been a constant in my life and have always brought me so much joy and I've always imagined raising my future children with dogs around like I was. However, this past weekend, my relationship with them was shaken. My sweet old girl who has always been good with kids and has never ever bitten a human,

some minor tiffs with other dogs in the past, that's it, was in a grumbling situation with another dog. So in an effort to prevent any drama, I pulled her away. Well, I guess she was scared and she turned around and flipped out on me, giving me some pretty nasty wounds to my hands. I'm fine and she's fine, but as cheesy as this sounds, I feel heartbroken. I can feel my unease around her and other dogs now, which is upsetting. And I'm wondering how I can trust dogs again.

What if it had been someone else she bit, or worse case, if it had been one of the children that were there? We don't have kids yet. We are getting closer to that stage of life. And now that a dog I trusted completely has flipped, I'm just wondering how I can get past this and get back to my dog loving self and feel okay, letting my future kids be dog lovers as well. I guess I'm hoping for an intention to not allow this unease to fester. Sincerely, minor trauma giving me pause.

I love the sign-offs. I'm not like witty like that with like little sign-off. I think you are. That's super cute. Pause. Pause. Yeah, this is hard. It's like you feel like you know.

someone their whole life and then all of a sudden there's like you turn on you you have to be uneasy um i i totally get where this is coming from it it's just kind of the perfect example of how your feelings around anything are based on those experiences that cause like intense activation whether it's like the activation that you get when you see a puppy and you're like oh my god it's so cute like I just need to squeeze it and like you're petting your puppy and it feels so good. There's like a heart opening. Like there's like an energy that just feels really like loving and connected and then and she sounds like she's had thousands of those and like being with her dog and petting her dog.

And then you get one that's fear inducing and traumatic and it can really fear is so powerful that it sounds like it's starting to overcome all the years of positive experiences. Right. Yeah. No, I think it's interesting because like, in my mind, I'm like, okay, the dog is older. It's maybe doesn't have its same, it's more irritable. Maybe it's like just not doing as well physically. So it makes sense to an extent in the same way, like, I'm sure you're, I'm sure it's like this with your kids where they're like great one day and you love them and then they do something and you're like why are you like why are you acting like this like I this isn't this isn't like an unconditional love kind of thing where you kind of have to be like accepting someone in all their stages yeah and it's

it's so funny the one thing that comes to mind this is sort of like an irrelevant side note but it's just a funny story where when Brooks was maybe like three years old and we're watching the lion king and he was like My favorite part is when the dad dies. Wow, dark. And I'm like, oh, my God, he's a sociopath. Like, what do we need to do? Is it still his favorite part? No, so, like, my kind of point is, like, it's a phase, you know,

like these little moments come in phases. And I conceptualize it as, like, in his mind, not ever having seen that, like that was the most exciting part when it's like the stampede and like he's hanging and he was like that was like the most intense part of the movie like it was my favorite part. Very dramatic. Dramatic.

At least that's what I tell myself so that I don't have to like check him in. Well we'll keep an eye on him. Yeah. So you know you get to that thing where you're sort of like this feels really like I don't like this person is like or this animal I don't know them

like I can't even trust them. I don't even know what they're capable of if this is how they're acting. One, maybe it was, you know, I think it was a very specific circumstance, which unfortunately she's going to have to be mindful of because now the dog's older. It's probably more easily startled. Maybe you can't see as well or smell as well or hear as well. Like maybe five years ago, the dog would have like smelled her and knew it was her and not done that. But when they start and they lose their inhibitions and there's brain changes in dogs too. So I think she does have to be mindful that like you have to approach the dog more slowly and like you're learning to deal with this phase of life with your animal. And I don't

think that, you know, I don't think that the dog was trying to hurt her. I think she's exactly right. he, you know, just startled and probably was already in an aggressive thing. It almost felt like her presence was someone else trying to attack her from the back. Right. So, you know, turned around and overreacted. But yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's tough because I feel like now she has this feeling of like, of a distrust of the whole concept. Yes.

Which seems like a big jump. Yeah, I do think it's a big jump. maybe it will instill a little bit of a healthy fear that when she does have kids she'll do the thing, which I do with my kids, which is like,

you can't just go up and pet any dog like from the back. You know, you have to, if you see a dog and you want to pet it, you have to ask the owner. Is it okay? Is the dog friendly? And then you have to approach slowly.

So maybe this experience can have a little silver lining that she'll have a little bit of a healthy fear for dogs. but it does sound like her nervous system is creating like a new schema in her mind around dogs. But she's had all these really positive and just neutral experiences that are kind of getting pushed to the back because of what happened. So I do have an intention for her when she gets in this mode where she's starting to be fear. Like if she sees a dog and she's being fearful or she's around her own dog and maybe that's the worst part.

being around your own dog and feeling like when you're like mad at them yeah yeah mad at them and also like I wonder does she is she looking can I pet her right now is she looking funny like does she seem like even just a little skittish around your own animal that you've trusted forever like I could see that being hard but I think she needs to know that maybe she does need to you know be more mindful However, I think she can, you know, the intention that I wrote is, I will recall all of the thousands of neutral and positive moments with dogs and allow my mind to release its hold on one fearful experience. So, of course, this one second of your time with your dog is taking over because you got cut and I don't know if you needed stitches or how bad these wounds were, but like your body's trying to protect. protect you. Your mind is trying to protect you. But because this experience was intense, it's taking over the thousands of, you know, neutral moments, positive moments that you've had

this entire time. So I think if you can come back and try to remember all of the moments where she was sweet and licking your face and, you know, just so gentle and loving, I think that that can help you regain this trust and knowing that there's this one very specific situation When she's in a fight with another dog, she's in mode. It's almost like some people will say don't touch a dog when they're eating, let alone, like, fighting. So I think if she gets in a little scuff with another dog,

that is a moment when you probably can't really trust her. But I don't think that means you can't trust her when you're laying on the couch and rubbing her belly. Right. Or I agree. I don't know if this is a male or female dog. I keep switching, I think. I'm not sure.

It kind of reminds me also of when people are kind of like when they ride horses. And then you fall off the horse or the horse gets a little jumpy and then you fall off and you're like, can I trust? Because I think a lot of these things are about your connection or you're feeling like you're connected to these animals. But also they have their own thing going on in your own head. Totally. Yeah, which doesn't always involve you. Right. It almost feels like the nice part of pets that we like project onto them is that they're just sort of like an extension of you.

and they're going to do whatever you want to do, but they do have their own, got their own problems. We'd like to hear from all the pets out there. It's right in. I was in the middle of a fight. My owner grabbed me from the back. What did she think I was going to do?

Yeah, I think those situations, you probably never had to think about any of this, but I think a lot of people do have that little bit of like, okay, if a dog is like in a fight mode or eating or chewing on a bone, they're in like animal mode. And you have to maybe treat them a little differently there. Got to watch out. All right. Let's do some triggers.

Okay. I will read the first one. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. Love the podcast and you up and love listening every week, jumping right in. This summer, I have a couple's trip with a bunch of friends from college. It's one of my core friend's 30th birthday and his wife planned an entire. surprise trip for him with the big group. It's a little complicated, but one of the guys that's going on the trip is a guy I used to date in college. Dates in quotes. We were in a situation

ship like the one Jordana talks about. I wanted to date and commit to him, but he could never give that to me. It felt like he was giving just enough to keep me around. It was hard in college because I would work up the courage to break things off with him, and then we would see each other when I would spend time with other friends, and I would fall right back into it. I'm ashamed to say, but this was happening for over five years. It's been six years since our last talking phase. We have seen each other at different events over the years, and we were able to be cordial.

I finally feel like I've gotten over it, and I've been in a very happy and healthy relationship for almost two years. My boyfriend is coming on this trip, and I'm very excited to get to introduce him to everyone. Right before the trip, I found out that my ex-boyfriend is bringing his girlfriend of a little less than a year on the trip, and he's going to propose to her. Oof.

I was immediately triggered and thought it was crazy. First that he would want to propose on a trip with me there and that he was making this birthday trip about him. It's also annoyed me because I've been dating my boyfriend for a year longer than they have and I'm still not engaged. To top it all off a few months into dating my current boyfriend, the ex texted me randomly and asked if I wasn't, was busy the next weekend.

I was working in a different state. and he said he always wanted to visit that state. I thought it was really weird that he was texting me, and I told him I'd actually started dating someone after which he backed off. He confessed to me later that he was wanting to see me to get to spend time together since he had always thought it was going to be me that he would end up with.

What the hell? Please tell me how triggered I can be. The wife who planned the whole trip was the one to give me the heads up so I wasn't blindsided, but I almost wish I would have known sooner, so I could have had the choice to go or not. My current boyfriend knows about the situation and doesn't feel like it would be weird, but I can't stop thinking and talking about it. I also have zero plans of going, but what if he has the audacity to invite me to the wedding?

That's going to be a whole other triggered segment. Thanks for your words of wisdom, a not jealous, but also wants a ring, betch. I will validate this. This is very triggering. All around. Yes. I think there's so many parts of it that would be upsetting.

It's like one year around this person who you kind of had this like kind of always brings you back to a place where you always kind of felt like not good enough. Two, they're going to propose to someone they've been dating less than a year in front of you. So clearly they like can commit. That's another part of it.

And yeah, like you also, the third part And I found this part to be almost the most triggering is that he's going to propose on this trip with this girl that he had this on and off again thing with for five years, meaning he thinks so little of what they had that he doesn't think it would be an issue to propose to his real girlfriend on this trip. Like he thinks so little of whatever they had going on.

Right. That's one way to look at it. The other way, because he came, he did come back. Right? They always come back. They always come back. They always do. You were the first one to tell me that.

You were right. He did come back and she rejected him. So I don't know if this is entirely like aloof, you know, that he's like, oh, I think so little of this that I don't even know and care that she's here. I think it might be his ego, maybe, perhaps being like, okay, she said no. So like, I don't have to feel badly about this. Yeah, I guess that's like a. that's a better, I guess, way to look at it in the most flattering.

What is the timing on when he came back versus when he started dating this soon-to-be-fiance? Well, I think it's probably, because she said she's been dating the soon-to-be-fiance, he's been dating the soon-to-be-fiance for less than a year, and she's been dating her boyfriend for a year longer than him. So it was probably like. Right before he started dating the fiancé. I think it was probably like within a year of when he started dating the fiancé. but it was still before.

Right. Yeah. This is really, this is really triggering. I mean, but look, I think you can, I don't think she wants this guy. I don't. I think what sounds like is the most triggering part is that he's getting engaged first, which I'm going to make you feel a little better about it. He came back to you before he met this girl and said,

I always thought you'd be the one, something like that, right? I don't know exactly what the worst. Easy to say on your. Right. But my point is, his mind was in like a commitment place that it just probably wasn't when you were dating in college, which most guys are not, you know, in that commitment place. And girls are more into that at that age. So I think if you make it kind of like a, like you said, I think you, you know, I don't know if you put this in her head because I don't know that she was thinking the whole like, you refuse to commit to me.

but now you're going to commit to someone else. I think that's probably a part of it. Yes, I'm sure it is. I'm sure you didn't put that in her head, but she didn't specifically mention that. But I do think if that's your, if that is what you're thinking, you can soothe yourself by being like,

it just was the timing. You know, like when you were dating, he wasn't ready. And then he was ready and actually came back to you to see if you could be the lucky one. But you weren't. And so then he decided to commit because he was ready.

this has nothing to, you have to completely separate this from your relationship with your... I do think it's a weird choice. Oh, to propose on the trip. Yes. Oh, of course. If I didn't say that, that's 100% that. Totally. But I'm just trying to soothe her from this concept of like, I'm undesirable.

He refused to commit to me. That whole thing. It is interesting because I do feel like a lot of these situation chips, almost like harder to, like, fully separate yourself from because they then an actual shorter actual relationship yeah because you have this like it almost it it puts this like reward

intermittent reward thing in your brain and you do it for so long because you know you don't know how to get out of it so it almost feels like more lodged in your in your psyche than if you had a relationship with like a real full relationship with a guy for a year and it ended and it was over like I think you'd almost be less triggered by it than this kind of thing, which is sort of,

your brain has taught you this guy is associated with this feeling of feeling really good and feeling really horrible. Totally. And it's almost like it reminds me of the social media thing. It's like a constant, am I going to get it today or not? Am I going to get the likes or not? Am I going to, you know. And it's interesting because there are studies on.

that they do on like mice and motivation and kind of like what keeps people what keeps mice motivated to keep going through something that's difficult and the best type of reward that you can give a mouse or a rat or whatever they use in the study is like something that's surprising that's like new and unexpected so i think to your point when you're in a regular healthy relationship if your boyfriend calls you up and says, hey, I missed you, you're like, oh, that's sweet, I missed you too. But like if you haven't heard from this guy

in a week and a half, and then you get a text that says, I missed you, it's like you just got hit with a, you know, like a love bomb. Yeah. And like an amazing way. Right. And that's such an amazing high.

Yes. And then, you know, and then you, let's say you sleep with them and then they don't text you for another two weeks. weeks, that's like a much more intense low, which makes the high of the text, of the I Miss You text, that much higher. Yes. And it really does change the wiring of your brain in terms of that, what level of reward you

need to get yourself going. And like, the only way to get that much of a reward is to kind of be involved with someone who's not giving it to you that much or who you're totally surprised when you get it from them. Right. Which is a hard situation, which is why I know many of you, as I speak, are in these situations where, like, the amazing part feels so good because it's like shocking and surprising and you didn't think it was coming. Meanwhile, you could be in a relationship with the nicest guy who's telling you, I love you every single day. And it just doesn't pack the same.

You're like, yeah, I heard that yesterday too. So, yes. So I get why this is sticky. and the fact, even if he was just going on the trip, that would be triggering. Right. And bringing the girl. Yeah.

Proposing. He's going to propose to her? Nine. Yeah. Nine and a half. Clearly, I feel biased. I mean, even I have not been in this similar situation, and I'm going to give this a nine too.

This is really triggering. And it's tough because a lot of people would probably look at this situation and be like, are you not happy? you're in a relationship. Like, aren't you happy? Aren't you like, why would you even care? Right.

But I think that if you haven't experienced it or don't know sort of the psychological toll that that kind of situation does to you, you know, it's not, you don't see that it's not even about the person. It's about kind of like the triggering trauma of like,

the practicing that dynamic for years. Yes. Which is just further. proof that like it's within you. This isn't the external world isn't what needs to change to make you feel better. It's like trauma that's living in your body. It's activation that you are having. It's associations that you have in your mind and your body.

And you need to take responsibility for noticing the thoughts and the feelings that are making you upset because it sounds like she's in a great relationship. If they're thinking about marriage, I'm sure that's going to happen for them. There's no rush. But yeah, this reward punishment thing is wired into her chemistry. Unfortunately, five years is a long time to be doing that. Doing that. Yeah.

So, yeah, totally validated, triggering. Maybe this is, I mean, I don't know why someone would propose in that. setting. Maybe he's a sociopath. Yeah, it sounds a little bit maybe like that. They always, maybe he wants to do it and run. Maybe he's like, I don't know. There might be something wrong with him. Yeah. It's very weird move, I think. A very weird move. Like, even for the girl, like, I wouldn't, for his, yeah, like, she could write in a whole separate thing. Like, my boyfriend proposed, like, with his ex-girlfriend, basically girlfriend of five years. You could call it situation ship, call it whatever you want.

If it's on again, off again for five years. With someone that he was sleeping with for five years. Yes. Like, that's triggering for her too. Yeah. Yeah. This guys are, I want to follow up on how this marriage goes. Yeah, same.

Let's, let's hear it. All right, let's do one more. All right. Hello, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I love you both so much and look forward to Tuesdays every week. I'll get right into my triggered scenario. My fiance and I are getting married next month. I'm just so excited and everything is coming together.

About nine months, ago, my mom purchased her dress for our wedding, photo attached. So it gives us a picture. A few weeks after she purchased her dress, my future mother-in-law texted my mom asking her to send her pictures of her dress. My future mother-in-law has since sent me photos of her in perhaps 10 different dresses, all different colors and styles. None of them have been white, so no issues there. I told her how lovely she looked in all of them and that she really couldn't make a bad choice. Two weeks ago, she texted me that she purchased her dress

and she texted me a photo. She also attached this photo. To my shock, it was almost identical to the dress my mother had purchased. Almost nine months ago, she also sent a photo to my mom. My mom called me

and expressed her surprise that she would get literally the same dress. My mom has a very meek personality, interesting choice of words, and would never say anything to rock the boat. I, however, am annoyed. I expressed to her

that while lovely, the dress is quite similar to my mom's and that I thought she might be more comfortable in a differentiated style. I love that phrasing. It's actually really funny. Perhaps you might be more comfortable. And a differentiated style. She proceeded to explain

all the reasons that it was different, slightly different shade of blue, bigger beating, etc. My fiancee also mentioned it to her and she threw a fit saying it was the only dress that she had tried that would work and that all the others were horrible. So my question, how much of a wedding faux pa is it that if the mother of the bride and the groom

show up in the same dress? My fiance urged me to pick my battles and that this isn't worth the confrontation. In isolation, I may be inclined to agree with him. However, this isn't the first instance of her making these seemingly small power moves to push boundaries and see how far she can go. How triggered can I be if she shows up to my wedding in the same dress as my mother on purpose? I'm saddened by the thought of my mother being uncomfortable in the dress she purchased First, what would the betches do? X-O-Xo, something blue times two. Okay.

Enlarge these, just to get a little sense. What are your thoughts? The dresses are similar. I'll give her that. They're not exactly the same. Yes. My take is, and I don't have like the most empathy, I'll give the caveat.

I don't have the most empathy for like these little wedding details. nuance things. I think it's, you know, just not the biggest deal. I'll just say. The first one's a V-neck. Her dress is not, the other one is not a V-neck.

So the neck line is different. They're both sparkly. One has more of like an embroidered beating pattern and one is just all over sparkles. I think they're different enough that it's not the same dress. It almost looks like maybe coordinated,

like the way, brides are coordinated. I don't think this is a big deal. I don't think it's the kind of thing that would make me uncomfortable as the mother of the bride. I don't think I would feel uncomfortable. Right. Right. It's almost like they're not totally twinning. Like, oh my gosh, you guys are in the same dress. How funny. Like, I don't think it's that. It looks like it's a coordinated style. I think the issue is deeper because she mentioned this is not the first time that she's, you know, how did she phrase it? Not the first time of her making seemingly small power moves to push boundaries and see how far she can go. I think it's about that.

I think the mother of the bride is meek, as she says, and she doesn't want her mom to be, like, turned into a pushover and her fiance's mom to be like the bull that gets to, you know, do whatever she wants. I think it's about that. I don't think it's really about the dress. I see slightly irritating. I'm literally going to give this like a two. I don't think this is a big deal, but if there's a bigger issue going on that she's, and people get like this before their wedding.

They're kind of like, I see a trend that feels scary for my marriage and my life intertwined with this person. Like, who is this mother-in-law and how is she going to try to control my life? So I think she's being extra sensitive to all the things that are reminding her of what she might potentially be scared of. Agreed. I think it's a battle over. Who's going to be the head bitch in charge? Yeah. And I, you know, I can see why you'd be like, okay, this is annoying because of that. I think if you take that out of it, I don't think this is that annoying. It's like they're coordinated. They're both wearing blue. I'm sure that matches both of your color schemes. Like, who cares? No one's looking at, if people are like noticing that, it means your dress isn't great enough.

Yeah. My opinion. Like, no, I don't think anyone's going to be paying attention to that besides you. like this is a little bit of a picking. I agree with the fiancé. I'd let this go. Yeah, I'd let it go too. I think they're both really pretty. I think it's going to look great. Yeah.

Don't let it bite you down. I give this a two. Yeah. I'd give it a three just because like she sent so many other dresses that she like could have picked. And then it almost does. I can see why she'd be like, you're almost, are you doing this to annoy me a little bit? But why would she want to wear the same dress as the,

mother. If she wants to be so, you would think she would look for a different dress that she thought she looked hotter. She almost wear like bright red or something that's going to like make her stand out.

Yeah. I mean, look, is she doing it on purpose? My inclination is to say no. This listener really seems to think she's doing it on purpose. And that part is triggering, if that's the case. I don't think there's enough evidence here

to say that she's doing it on purpose. I'm glad you attached to pictures because otherwise I probably would have thought that they were like, exactly the same. And that would be a little annoying. Yeah, that would be more of a reason to be like, even if they match though, whatever. Yeah, I mean, like, why do you want your bridesmaids to match and not your mothers? Yeah, coordinated, better than one having some totally off-based color. Right. For sure. The pictures are going to look great. Everyone's going to be like one big,

happy family, all in blue. Totally. I'm getting that sense already. Good luck. Let us know how the morning of the wedding goes. I want to hear about all the fights. Yes. And that's it. All right. For this episode, we did it.

That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Rebecca Steinberg. Editing by Will Maxwell. Guest booking by Allie Freebender. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and everything's fine. And send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 64636363.6294.

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