Oversharing - Should I Tell My Friend We Hate Her Boyfriend?

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Dr. Naomi and Jordana chat stress dreams and sleep talking. Our Overshare comes from a listener who’s partner is still mentally single. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a Betch who’s not a fan of her BFF’s BF. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for a law school grad who wants to shake her scarcity mindset. And we’re feeling triggered by baby shower gifts and Betches blowback. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How is it going? How was your weekend?

The weekend was actually great. Jeff's show was phenomenal. I have to send you the video, which I didn't. There were like hundreds of people there. It was a really great time. So that was awesome. Pride in the name of you, too. Check them out.

That was really fun. But then I had like these anxiety dreams last night. I woke up cranky, if I'm being honest. I don't, whenever I get really activated in my dreams, I wake up and then everybody's like asking me for things this morning. And I have had like zero patience. I had, when I worked in person, I used to have so many more. I have double-booked people before, like when I used to have an actual office with people coming.

Oh, my therapist did that to me once. Don't feel bad. Oh, really? Okay. That makes me. Like, I had two people in the waiting room and I had to tell one person, I'm so sorry. So it happened to you often or? No, it's happened to me, I think once and then like a maybe once, but I like staved it off at the last minute kind of thing.

And that hasn't happened to me. And because the body keeps the score. And like I have that trauma living in my body. I've since not really allowed that to happen. And I'm only virtual now. So like it's and that was even I think before I had really like this is aging me. But like a, you know, like a Google calendar and everything was like more organized and digital. It was like probably had like a calendar where I was actually writing down appointments and things like that.

But yeah. So I had one of these dreams last night where I had. I had forgotten about an appointment and I double booked somebody else and I was like running around. And then I was like in a hotel room and somebody was in the room that I was supposed to be in. And it was just a very chaotic sleep. It was like your life was going chaotically. My life was going chaotically. That's exactly.

Do you feel like your life is going chaotically? There's a lot. Therapist. There is a lot going on. It's not me. It's like everybody else like Jeff and the kids all have someone. much stuff and I'm kind of like the house manager, which is not my preferred role, but I'm in it. So sometimes I'm like, yeah, feel like there's just too many pots on the stove.

But this, I'm here with you now and this is good and I feel good. I love doing this with you. So I feel like I'm back. But I was definitely short-tempered, you know, because Lila, I was saying we have to do a calm the fuck down for Sunday scaries. It was actually really funny. It's a great idea. Lila had Sunday scaries.

She does almost every Sunday. So I had the idea. I'm like, why don't we listen to one of the meditations that I did for like burnout? Oh. I think when you're in school, it's like March. There's really not a lot of vacations. Like she gets like one day off. They get like one day off for Martin Luther King Day.

They don't really get a February break where we are. They didn't do a president's day week or something? They got like a couple of, they got like a long weekend, like a president's day long weekend. So she's feeling burnout. I think she's feeling burn it. So we listened to the burnout podcast and I turn it on and I realize at the very beginning it says, welcome to calm the fuck down. And I'm like, oh, she looks at me. She's like, did she just say what I think she said, but she she's 11. So she kind of got the thing of it. Like she was laughing. Like she got that like, that it's funny to like calm the fuck down. Like you're supposed to be calming down. But you're like cursing.

So she was laughing and she actually fell asleep, which she almost never does, like halfway through the meditation. Yeah. Wow. Maybe because it was like her mommy's voice or something. Right. It was a little bit more. I mean, it makes me so sad that she's burnt out of 11 years old. I know. It is really sad. I know. It's hard. I keep telling her. Like if you get an 85, that's fine. She just is very high, you know, she's, you know, she's, you know, she's, She's like a high achiever. She has, and those are her own standards. I really don't. It's an oldest child thing. I feel like I had that a little bit. Yeah. I was like,

I was also kind of like my own pressure. Yes. What is that? Maybe you can help me help her because. Right. I mean, no one really cared when it was me. But, but.

Like, she's got to do it by herself. I did. Yeah. I think it was, Maybe it's because, like, if your home life, I mean, again, I think our, our childhood and your house is probably chaotic in a different way. But you're like almost, I think it's almost like you have a set, feel like you can control this. Yes. It's within your control.

So then you, so it makes you super anxious about it because it's one thing you kind of do. Whereas like your home life is sort of like, if it's a little chaotic, there's not much you can do to like make sure everyone's doing what they're supposed to do. but you can control your schoolwork. Yes. Yeah. And I think it's become an identity. Like she's like the smart kid. So now she probably like doesn't know who to be if she's not that anymore.

So hopefully she'll figure it out. It's a long journey. But I really don't think that I mean, I'm not putting any pressure. Like I keep like like my whole thing with you. Be average. Yeah. At 80s. I don't.

That's fine. Be happy. Enjoy your childhood. But she, uh, she wants to do, you know. She's on top of it, but she really liked that ball of yarn meditation, the one where it's like so many things coming at you and you press the pause button and you do one thing at a time.

So that was great. She fell right to sleep. So we're going to do one for Sunday scaries down the line. That's great. That'll probably be the, let's say the April meditations. Because right now, if you're listening to this, it's March. There's two new ones that are out. Go listen to them.

They're running late. Yes. And attending an event alone. Yes. So check out those meditations. It works for Naomi's daughter. I think it will work for you. They're very, very soothing.

And you can always go back to them whenever you're in that mode. And I like that they're very situation specific. So you can get like a real catered meditation. Yeah, for exactly what it is that you're going through. And now we've been doing this for a while. There are a lot out there. So we're hitting a lot of different, you know, anxiety struggle points. There's a lot in the bank.

So check them out. just speaking of like dreams and bad nights. I also couldn't really sleep last night and it was kind of 4 a.m. And I heard all of a sudden I heard Mike next to me being like, what the fuck is going on? And I'm like, what happened? Like I like look over and he's like dead asleep. He's fully talking in his sleep. And then like pause and then yeah.

Yeah. And that was it. Oh my gosh. And I was like someone is annoying you in this. And you're like, your first thought was, is it me? I was my initial first thought. But then I was like, the tone that he had is like a specific work tone. Yes.

And I was like, you're definitely dreaming about someone at work. Oh, I feel so bad for him. It's like tax season probably. It's like this is his busy season, right? He doesn't actually do taxes, but it's not even his busy season. It's just the only thing he gets stressed about his work. It's so annoying. I'd be like, why don't you get anxiety about us?

Right. Like, why don't you care? that I didn't get you, you know, Valentine's Day present. Exactly. That's that bothering you. Right. Why is that not what keeps you screaming in your... That's good, though.

I feel bad for him. I hope he... Do you ever hear him in his office, like getting agitated? He has a voice, you know, like that. It's funny. Like COVID, I feel like introduced everyone to their spouses or boyfriends, like, work voice. Work voice. It's a tone.

Did you tell him this morning when he woke up that he was talking? Yeah. He, like, had no memory of any dream that he had. So it was funny. The mind is so weird, right? Like, how many things that you just could block out if it was literally, he probably had that three hours ago. I know. And had no memory at all.

It's crazy. I wonder how that works. It's so crazy. But speaking of the dream segment, we're discontinuing that because you guys all said in the reviews that you hate it. We listen to the people, no more dreams. Yes. Except for mind. You want.

Yeah. I mean, us is different because you know us. And we're here to give each other the background on on what's going on behind the dreams. Totally. We're taking the feedback. And let's just jump right into our show. Let's do it.

I will read the first email. Today's overshare. And by the way, if you want to leave a voicemail, you can call 646-363-6294 or email us at oversharing at betches.com. Hi, Tradren and Dr. Daomi. I love the podcast. I've finally caught up on all the episodes, and I already miss listening to you both through my workday. So I'm eagerly awaiting the release of new episodes.

Recently, I encountered a situation that really triggered me and I need help with moving forward from it. I regularly rock climb with my friends and my boyfriend has always wanted to join us. This past week, he finally did. But we drove there separately. When I got there, I went over to my friends because he was still doing the training. They make everyone do their first time at the gym. When the girl at the counter was helping him get his gear, he accidentally walked behind the counter. The girl told him, oh, no, you stay over there.

There's nothing special back here. And he responded with, what about yourself? Ooh. He's in danger. My friend and I both overheard this comment and gave each other what the fuck looks. Shortly after, my boyfriend turns around and sees me and says, oh, you're here. I told him the comment bothered me and was made worse by the realization that he said it thinking I wasn't there.

He validated my feelings and agreed that it was not appropriate or respectful. He offered the explanation that he was very nervous about the climbing because he's scared of heights and was just trying to not be awkward because he had messed up and gone behind the counter. He also noted that he had talked to the girl when he first got there about gardening with her boyfriend, so flirting with her was not even on his mind and it was just a dumb comment. he made without any thought put into it. He added that this may be residual singleness since we've only been in a relationship for two months and he's been single for three years. He agreed to be more

conscious of the comments he makes to other women going forward and said he wants to show me the respect he knows I deserve. So here's my issue. We had a great conversation and he said all of the right things, but I'm still bothered by the thought that I'll never truly know what he's saying to other women when I'm not around. I keep thinking to myself, actions speak louder than words, but how will I know what actions he's making when I'm not around to see them. How can I reassure myself to trust him and his intentions? Thank you for the help, not the only special betch in his life. Oof.

It's a tough one. You know, the truth is it wasn't great to red flag. Put it in his file. Yeah, put it in the file at the top of the file. But I don't want to scare her. She sounds like she wants to make the relationship work. And I, you know, you might disagree, but I, I kind of by the excuse of he's only been in a relationship for two months.

It's some residual singleness because I think that there is like a persona that you carry with you generally when you're single, where you're just like having this, you know, friendly, flirty open to all types of conversations. And after three years, it can kind of become part of your persona that you might need to work out of the system after being in a relationship. So I think there's something to that. If she wants to make the relationship work, I think she can lean on that.

But that excuse doesn't work once they've been together for five, six months that it's residual singleness. He gave three excuses and that was my favorite one. That was my favorite of the three. If I were him, I don't like when people do multiple excuses because when someone is giving multiple excuses, I tend to believe none of them are true. Right.

So it's almost more of a red flag. me that he named three different things. Like, I was nervous. I don't know how to rock climb. Yeah. The first two were bullshit. Yeah. What was it? She has, I was already talking to her about, you know, she had a boyfriend. I feel like if she was talking to him about having a boyfriend, that's an even weirder comment. Right. Yeah. Exactly. And then this thing, the residual single singleness, I agree. Like, if that one is true, that is the best, most excusable one. And again, this in itself, I don't know if is fully a deal breaker, but it is something, again, like you said, to note in his file.

It's something, I don't think she can really do much else with it. They've discussed the comment. He's, you know, given these excuses about it. If she can get over it, then, like, they can move on. But I would say this is like, I don't want to say strike one because that's not like a fun way to have a relationship. But it's something to note. And if you see other, like, potentially flirt, you know, like, potentially flirt.

I guess behavior or hear about anything. It's the kind of thing where like if I heard this and then I never heard anything else, I'd be like, all right, we'll let it go. It's the thing about he was single, two months isn't that long of a time. A lot of men, you know, maybe you're again like in that mindset of like just constantly sort of on. But if it was this and then, you know, I had a friend tell me she some. Yeah.

Speaking to someone at a bar or if it was this and then it was like something, you know, anything, anything else, I think, that would that would lean towards showing that he's this kind of person, I think that would be when I'd have to consider if I felt safe in the relationship. Yes, I definitely agree. And I think you'll see, if this really is like

this persona type thing, then it's going to come out even when you're together. You know, so that's the other piece. Like, if you're out with a bunch of friends, you can see how he's acting even with like, you know, friends of yours or friends of friends or if you're out at a bar together, there's a certain way that you present yourself as open to meeting new, you know, singles.

Singles, exactly, or not. So I think that that's really important. And that's something that I talk with couples about all the time is like you can't put your like open for business light out when you're in a relationship. And that just means like making eye contact for more than a second or half a second. That could mean, you know, the touch on the shoulder, the laugh and the little, you know, grab or whatever. Like these things that we do that are like very mild that you have to kind of pull back when you're in a relationship. And it does maybe take a minute.

But I think she can see it when she's worried about what he's doing when he's not around. but I think she'll be able to see some of that, you know, if it's happening when she's around, if they're at a party, if they're out at a bar, you know, that type of thing, anytime they're around other people. And I give them a little bit, I think the multiple excuse thing was like the first two were bullshit and he didn't think she was going to like the last one. Like, it's residual singleness in and of itself sounds like not something that a girl would like to hear when they're in a relationship.

So that was probably the real one, but it's not, that's the hard one to say because that's the one that's true and that's the one that she probably doesn't want to hear that like he's shaking off his singleness. But I think that was the real one and the other two were just him babbling floundering. Yeah, until he can find the truth. Right. So. Yeah. And I find I would also tell him that I think that flirting with someone who has told you that they have a boyfriend is also kind of creepy. Right. I mean, I don't know if I would tell him that. But I'm saying, I think that. If that part is true and he's saying that, like, that's even a weirder red flag on his behalf. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely, you know, I hate to say it. I don't want to, you know, upset you. And I do think that hopefully within another month or two, he'll really shed the rest of his singleness.

But yeah, I didn't love this. I wouldn't have liked to hear this if this was someone that I was in a relationship with. But it doesn't mean it has to be over. I think if he's open to talking about it. And here's the other piece, right? He's made this mistake. He's shaking off his singleness. He needs to be continued to be open to talking about it if there are moments in the

future where you're triggered by something. So that's going to be a huge factor in whether or not this works. His ability to not be defensive, his ability to say, okay, yes, I can see why you feel that way or what can I do to make you feel better? or these types of things where you guys can continue to have an open conversation about it. Now that he's injected this little bit of doubt into the relationship, he kind of has to, if he's really going to work on it, then he can work on it with you together where you can have these open conversations.

Like you just said where you can say, you know, now that I've been thinking about it, you know, it also makes me uncomfortable that she said that she had a boyfriend and then you chose to kind of, you know, put your single, shaking your singleness off on this particular woman who just told you she had a boyfriend. That's concerning. And how he reacts to that if he's like, you know what, you're right. This was just like not my best thing. And I, you know, or ask questions or is like soft and calm and kind when you bring it up.

That's way more of a green flag than if he's like, are we still talking about this? like how many times you're going to bring this if that's you know that one would be more concerning yeah and even better would be if he led with a little bit of vulnerability like oh I guess I do that because I'm insecure about you know just if people are like attracted to me or I was you know no one ever I never spoke to any girls when I was like younger and so it's just kind of this feeling that gives me this like ego boost and it's kind of sad that's the a plus that is the a plus that will remove, you can, if he does that, you can take this out of his file folder, I think, and start fresh. And you're even again. Yes. I would be shocked if he goes there. But if he does,

that's a total, you know, yeah, there's a chance for him to come back stronger. Yes. All right. All right. Do you want to do our betchesist email? Yes, I'll read this. Okay. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I could really use some help figuring out how to navigate disliking my best friend's new boyfriend. For context, this is my best friend Annie's names changed, first adult relationship. It's very different from our post-college flings and one-night stands. I live in a different state from my friend group, so I met Annie's boyfriend about six months after our other core group of friends. Their reviews on him were extremely negative, but I took it with a grain of salt because he was thrown into meeting a very close-knit group of friends at a weekend away, which can

definitely be overwhelming. Since that weekend, Annie has not brought him around to anything, so I made at a point to make sure I was meeting him in a more private setting when I came down to visit. Me, Annie, my partner, and the new boyfriend went on a double date, then out for a few drinks, and all the reviews from my friends could not have been more true. There are a lot of red flags. He spoke very negatively about our group of guy friends saying he was, quote, five years ahead of those duds career-wise and does not know why Annie is friends with them, followed by many conversations about money, success, and brand-name things.

He loved flunting how he sticks up for Annie around other guys and constantly takes care of her, which is obviously a positive, but it should never come up in a conversation as much as it did. Throughout the night, he continued to make comments about what he liked and didn't like about my friend's outfits, jokes about how his dad is racist, and made us keep thanking him for buying us roses from a random guy off the street. A lot of this was just coming off as insecurities, which I understand is a deeper issue, but I'm shocked that my independent, extremely book and street smart friend is falling for the frat star that we would walk away from at the bar in college. Now that we're 30, I thought she would be walking away faster, but they're actually talking about moving in together. I'm in such a sticky

situation wanting to be happy for her, but also can't deny this gut feeling that over time might become so territorial about who she hangs out with that it will manipulate how Annie acts in the future. I'm really writing in because I don't know how or even if I should communicate. this with her. How do you tell your best friend that you don't like her boyfriend if he really never did anything wrong? Thank you. BFF's BF is a no-go. I feel like I've met this guy. You met him? Yes. It just it's like such an ego thing. Like he's just he's like a peacock, like flunting his feathers all over the place. And I, it's very distasteful. I can see why it's his personality is off-putting to her. Yeah, I mean, I think it's funny because I'm older than you and I have

friends that have already married the wrong person and are divorced from that person. Do you know they were the wrong person? Yeah. So I kind of did. And I think in the context of what she's describing, which is the entire friend group doesn't like this person, that makes it easier than if you're like the only one. I didn't actually say something, but one of my other friends did. And how did that go? It didn't matter. You know, she married the guy anyway. So I don't think it's going to, chances that she's going to be like, oh, you know what?

You're right. I'm going to end it. Are very slim. Sounds like he's a little too deep. Yes. Like I don't think it's going to matter. But you might feel better by saying that you warned her or that you, you know expressed it i wouldn't i wouldn't say anything unless i was asked if i'm being totally

honest yeah unless it was like they she went unless someone was telling me about like their first date with someone right and they said they said something or whatever like that then i'd be like oh that guy sounds like a nightmare but if someone's like thinking of moving in with someone they clearly love them the person isn't like harming them emotionally or physically i think i would not say anything unless asked right i think the person probably, no, she's as smart as you say she is. I think there's something that she probably knows in her mind about this person, but there's something else that she's getting from him that she feels is stronger than that. So, I don't know, I just don't think it's like anyone's place

to do that unless they are asked in some way, shape, or form. Yeah. Yeah, I could agree. I mean, I guess it depends on how close friends they are. And yeah, I think if it comes up in conversation in some way, I mean, look, she's not bringing him around their core group of friends that live locally anymore. So that, that's not great. You know, that's like, I see how she's playing it forward of like, this is going to be isolating for her. Right.

If they all don't like him. And now she's like, can't really bring him around. But I do agree that I think maybe let the local friends. I'm not saying you should talk to them about it or anything or be doing that. But I think it'll play itself out. It'll run its course in the way that it's meant to be when she's realizing like none of her other friends also want to hang out with him versus you coming to her and just giving her these vague sort of reasons about why he's rubbing you the wrong way.

Maybe she likes that type of a ego bravado. I protect her in front of other men. and, you know, I'm going to stop and buy you guys roses on the street as like a gesture, which is all fine. Maybe she could try what you do. I think we talked about this when your kids have friends that you don't like, that motivational interviewing thing. Right.

Right. Like she could get dinner with her alone and say like, so, like, tell me, like, what do you love about him? Yes. Yeah. That is a good idea. Maybe opening up a dialogue or making it a safe enough space where she can come to you. with some of the stuff that maybe is rubbing her the wrong way. And then that's a good sign.

I wouldn't even, at that point, you don't want to jump on it and be like, oh my God, I'm so glad you said something. I've been dying to tell you how much I hate him. But yeah, that's probably a good strategy too to just, you know, because the other thing that sounds like she's deep enough in it

where she's willing to not hang out with her friends because they don't like him. So if you're another person, like you being at a distance, you could be like a safe place for her because you're not really going to hang out with him that much. You live farther away. So maybe you want to take the role of just being like the non-judgmental listener

and see if you could pull something out of her. And you have to meet people where they're at, I think. So like if she's not in a place to be like I'm looking to get out of this, then I don't think that she's going to take kindly to doing that. And even if she doesn't get upset, I don't think she's going to, it's not going to change anything. And now it's just going to be a little uncomfortable because she's going to know that you don't like him. If we want to give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he just feels anxious meeting all these new friends and he's like doubling down on this like I'm the best boyfriend.

I'm like the best catch for her persona. Yeah. The fact that he's putting down their other friends, that one seems like pretty obviously not cool. Yeah. No, I agree. I mean, sometimes people relax after a little bit. I don't know. Yeah, that's some people's like anxiety, like a defense mechanism is to just be like,

and for some reason I think our culture makes that more of a thing for men than women typically that like when you're anxious, you lead with like this gloating on the coolest, you know, I have a good job. Yeah. Establish yourself as an alpha or whatever. Yes. Yes. Right.

And maybe he, you know, and maybe that like fed into itself, like he thought the friends didn't like him. So he's like putting that on even more extensively. But yeah, I would have dinner with her alone. I would ask her like what she loves about the relationship in a way that's not like, why do you even like him? But more like, tell me about like, why is he different? I agree. And I think this we can broaden this topic for anyone who has a friend that's really like involved in anything that you don't really. prove of that the best way to get them to change is to just be sort of a non-judgmental sounding

board and be someone that is safe enough for them to explore, like you're saying, motivational interviewing, like explore the other side, both sides of whatever it is that they're doing, whether it's drinking or, you know, worrying about being thin or whatever unhealthy behaviors that you have a friend that's doing, if they know that you're going to be judging them, they're probably just not going to talk to you about it. And then you have no access to them at all. So whatever little ability you had to make any change is now zero because they're not even going to talk to you.

So yeah, give that a try. We'll see what happens. Worst case, you don't like your friend's husband that much. Yeah. The worst case scenario is her choice and there's worse things that could happen. You're not going to be the one living with him. Exactly. There's plenty of friends I feel like that I have that I'm like, I'd rather hang out with you alone.

Right. Yeah. And that's great. You have a nice balance. Like there's some couple friends or friends where you like the three of you can hang out and you love their significant other. And there's some where you're like, you know, most of the time we're just going to do our own thing. All right. Let's do some intentions. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, big fan of you both. Thank you for providing a dose of mindfulness, perspective, and humor to my morning commute.

Love it. I'm hoping you can help me with setting an intention when I spend money on discretionary things that make me happy, but nonetheless cause me anxiety. I'm 29 and recently went back to school after more than six years of working full-time. I am in the incredibly privileged position of having no loans from undergrad and between a big scholarship plus my savings from years I worked, I will not have to take out loans

to fund law school either. I feel so very fortunate to be in this position and recognize this is only possible thanks to huge financial help for my family, plus they're instilling in me the value of living below my means, which I very much did until recently. I know that this, being in law school

and not having an income, is why I was saving so carefully that my savings are there to be spent and that I'm investing in myself. But I can't help but get so triggered and second-guessy after swiping my credit card on things that I don't technically need. For example, some old friends came to visit me and we did a biking bar crawl around my city. I picked up the tab for food at one of the stops. I wanted to treat everyone and say thanks for visiting.

Instead of that feeling good and being a blip in a really happy day of catching up and taking a break from school, I'm ruminating on the extra $70 I spent. This is only my second semester of six, and my goal going into 2024 is to give myself permission to have and enjoy a life outside of school that's reasonably within my means. But discretionary spending is just so triggering. It's probably relevant to add that my dad lost his job and was unemployed for a year when I was job searching in college, and that my first jobs did not pay well, which I think really contributed to my sense that your safety net can never be big enough.

Please help, a pennywise, dollar, anxious betch. All right. I think a lot of people can probably relate to this for sure. And what I love about what she, first of all, she gives us two clues. She tells us that her goal for 2024 is to give herself permission to have and enjoy a life outside of school that's reasonably within her means. So she wants to just not be so triggered by all of this. And I think, you know, we know what she's looking to do.

And again, it's kind of like what I was saying in the beginning of this about like you have something that happens. She identifies what it is, something from her past that creates like a literally sensation of anxiety in her body. Right. And then she does her way of reacting to that sensation in her body is by like ruminating and having guilt about it all day after she spends the money. So in essence, I'd like to suggest a different way to deal with the triggering anxiety in her body that's coming from something in her past because the guilt and the ruminating is just not, you spent the $70. You told yourself you wanted to enjoy your life reasonably. I think taking your friends out to dinner or lunch or whatever when they come to visit is a really nice way to spend money. And instead of like just noticing when like she's aware of.

that this is a trigger for her. So noticing it when it comes into her body and like kind of being the witness, watching the anxiety saying, I understand this is like coming from my past. My current intention is to live reasonably within my means. So I'm just going to like allow this feeling to exist, allow it to run its course and come out on the other side of it. It sounds like she has enough money to do this. Right. Yeah. I mean, it feels like it's like a survival mechanism is this, this feeling.

It's like meant to protect her from overspending or, you know, it brings her back to her childhood where maybe they were scared that because her dad lost his job, that they weren't going to be able to pay for things. And then that really served them probably is that feeling of like, we can't just spend whatever we want because that has big consequences. And we can't really afford this. But the circumstances are different now. and I guess that's what she needs to keep reminding herself of.

And I totally relate to what she's feeling because it's kind of like, especially if you're using the money to like do something nice for others. Like you would, if all good deeds are selfish, like inherently you want to feel good about that. Yes. Like if you do it and then you think about it all day and like think about if you should have done it and think of it, then that doesn't associate the like kindness and like, generosity with like an actual good feeling. It associates it with like a stress. So it makes you less likely to do it again.

So I see what she's saying in terms of like she wants to get into a mindset of like she feels good when she does those things for others instead of worse. Yes. So this is an opportunity to rewire your nervous system. And that's literally what you're doing. Like you can think about it like opening up a motherboard and like with a little screwdriver and going in there and rewiring it. And how do you do that by when you notice that you have this feeling of anxiety in your

body after you spend money, you just recognize that this is your past. Like you said, I always like to do the thing where I'm like, thank you for trying to protect me. Like you're allowing, you're welcoming in. Right. In some ways, like you're not afraid. You're like banishing it. Yes.

I appreciate you anxiety or. whatever it is that I appreciate the tightness in my chest. I appreciate the little butterfly feeling in my stomach. It's really not that bad if you think about it, like this physical sensation of it. If you take it away from the significance that it used to have. In this moment, it's like a little butterfly in the stomach or whatever it is. Thank you. Sometimes I need you.

I appreciate your presence. You're trying to protect me right now. I'm okay. I've made a very intentional decision to spend money on things like this. And then just like turn your attention in away from your mind and into your body. So resisting the urge to like strategize and analyze and pull up your phone and pull up your bank account and see how many how much money exactly to the penny you have left and make turn away from the mind, turn into your body.

And that's how you rewire your brain by. Instead of when you feel triggered, you do something about it, you feel triggered and you let the trigger just work its way through your, this is how you rewire. You allow the trigger, you welcome the sensations, you let it work its way through your body and do nothing differently. Right. And then eventually you do that enough and then you'll start to be like, you know what, this actually feels good. And then like you said, you can enjoy the benefits of it. Yeah. And it's almost like doing it more, I think will help you get there.

I think my therapist had told me this because I have a similar kind of fear of spending where it's like the more you do it and then you see that like things are all fine, like you still have enough money. You haven't like bankrupted yourself. Like the more that you do those practice doing those things, the more your brain will know that doing those things like won't create whatever really negative situation maybe is like in the subconscious of your brain that they, thinks it's happening. Yes. And that is, that's basically like changing the neurons that fire in your

brain, changing the activation in your body that tells you that this is a bad thing, that this is a dangerous thing. Now your body kind of starts to feel like this is an okay thing. And some people get scared of that. Like that's kind of what you're holding onto. But I do feel like there's a spectrum, there's like a spending spectrum, right? We all know people that just are like swiping away with reckless abandon and they're on one end of the spectrum and then there are people like her that are on the very cautious end of the spectrum so i always say this with anything whether it's like your conscientiousness at work or spending or whatever like if you're on the cautious end of the spectrum what to you feels like you're recklessly spending with abandoned is probably like the

middle zone where you should be right totally that's a great way to put it like you're the biggest fear is that you become that person who's on the other end of the spectrum, but it's very unlikely to happen just given how hardwired your anxiety isn't about that. So when you feel like you're on the other end, you're probably somewhere right in the sweet spot where you should be. So the intention that I wrote for her is when she feels this anxiety coming up, whether she's about to spend or she has spent to, you know, kind of go through the process. Recognize. my body reacting to my past, allow it, turn away from my mind into my body, breathe, and be patient. And this is the process of rewiring your physiological reaction to spending money.

So recognizing, okay, this is something old that's continuing to live here. Don't shun it away. Don't push it away. allow it. It's protecting you. Notice where it is in your body. And then this is the hard part. Turning away from the mind and turning into the body, which is why I always recommend like literally watch your stomach. Watch what the butterflies feel like. That's a distraction from the mind that wants to pull out your banking app and calculate every penny that you spent and tell yourself, convince yourself or plan out how you're going to spend money for the rest of the day to make sure that

you compensate. I won't have dinner out. What? Shh. Quiet the mind. Relax, breathe, be patient, and it will go away by itself. And once it goes away, that's when you know that you've started to kind of rewire your brain. And like you said, multiple, you have to keep doing it on repeat. Let's do some triggers. All right.

I will read the first one. Cool. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Thank you for all the great advice you give every week. I often find myself thinking of the triggered stories. long after I finished listening to the podcast. I have my own triggered scenario. I 32 female was invited to the baby shower for the cousin of my partner, 34 male. Since I was going to attend a loan, I told him I would buy the gift instead of the usual routine we have of each person taking

responsibility of purchasing the gifts for their respective family members events. The invitation stated no box gifts. So I decided a $50 gift card would be an acceptable gift since it was a shower for her second baby and she already had all the necessary items. My partner agreed. Flash forward to three days before the shower and my partner called to tell me he spoke to his brother and mother and he decided a hundred would be better gifts so he purchased a new gift card. He told me I could keep the card I had purchased for myself instead. This upset me because he did not speak to me before he purchased the new gift. I felt like he had allowed his family to make the decision for me as to how much I would give as a gift. My partner did not understand.

understand why I was upset and saw the new gift as just a gesture of his generosity. I told him purchasing the $100 gift card without telling me first made me feel like he deemed my gift as not good enough to give to his family and that my thoughts on the situation were not necessary, even though I was going to be the one attending the shower. How trigger can I be in this situation? Did I overreact? Should I have just thanked him for getting the new gift? Look forward to hearing what you have to say. More money, more problems, betch. I could see being annoyed by. this because I think it's annoying that he didn't like discuss it with her. Even I could I think there's no issue that he spoke to his mom and his brother and

he were like, well, what are you getting them? And then he found out they were getting them a hundred dollar gift. And he wanted to make sure that like his side looked enough. But I would, if I were him, I would have said to her like spoke to my mom and my brother, they're getting a lot more expensive gifts. Like I kind of feel like we should up the amount. It's my cousin. I don't need you to pay for that.

I'll pay the difference or I'll or I'll get you a new one. I think it is like a little irritating. It almost feels like it implies she's cheap that he just got the new one. Mm-hmm. Already. Yeah. Which I don't think is the case because he agreed with the 50 until he spoke to his other family members.

I agree. I can see why this is triggering. It sounds like in action wise, he fixed it. He got the card. She actually didn't have to spend anything on the gift. which in theory is great, but I do agree. I think there's something to,

maybe there is sort of a bigger issue of kind of like, I think that this is sufficient. So this is what I, it's almost like a values, you know, like a values judgment thing, where she's kind of like, this is what I think is sufficient.

This is what I think would be a reasonable gift. And maybe because they are, it sounds like they're pretty serious. If she's, she's going to his cousin's, baby shower or whatever it is, you know, and they're having these types of interactions where they're giving joint family gifts and all that. Like maybe it's more an issue. And this is probably open for discussion between the two of them about like expectations for this type of thing.

Um, and I could relate to that feeling of kind of I think this is enough. Like I don't, it's her second baby. I'm her, I don't even what, what's the relationship? I'm her cousin's girlfriend. Right. I'm her, I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the cousin's girlfriend, I think a $50 gift is very nice and lovely and I think should be appreciated. And almost I think this is where the values thing comes in. Like if she is not appreciative of that or that doesn't feel like enough for her or for your parents, it's almost like it's it's a insulting and be kind of like I don't care because that's what I feel like should be that should be appreciated for what it is versus like if there's talk of this should be more.

Right. Then that just makes me want to not. Then it feels like just not grateful and I don't want to play that. Or like you're trying to change me. Yes. Right. It'd be like let's say she's going to the baby shower and she has an outfit picked out for the baby shower and then he comes home. He's like I spoke to my mom and my brother. I have this like outfit that I actually think would be like way more appropriate. So you can like return your outfit. And I bought you and I got. Yeah. I bought you an outfit very generously. And like it's going to look great. It'd be like, it's sort of like, I think a, she's seeing it as a commentary on who she is. Like, she's bringing herself and her choices to this, to this event, which are not enough for him.

Yes. Or like he's embarrassed. He's embarrassed. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's funny because I had this thing. Oh, by the way, the Betches account posted this a meme on like sitting next to a 10-year-old.

And it was like, it's like all about the skincare and going to Sephora and like all the fancy stuff. This is kind of a side note. But it's exactly how Maddie is. And she's going to a birthday party for one of her friends. And I always give her. I'm like, you could spend like $20 to $25 on like a birthday gift for a friend. So she goes to Sephora and she's begging for more stuff that she wants to give to her friend. And then I go and I give her whatever we buy like $20 worth of stuff at Sephora.

4, which is nothing. It's like a 4-ounce bottle of whatever it is. But anyway, we spend 20, we like spend $20. And she's like hunting around the house. She goes through my makeup thing and starts like taking out like new unused makeups and like putting it in the bag. Are you triggered? I was triggered. Because first of all, it wasn't, A, it was a little annoying that was like she was taking my makeup and putting it in the bag. But I was sort of like, this, should be enough. Like if this girl doesn't want to be your friend because you didn't give her a Sephora bag full of, you know, $75 worth of goodies, then like good riddance to her. So I think maybe there is a similar feeling of like, this should be sufficient. And the fact that it's not

is triggering. So yeah, I think maybe I'm like personally, like I could definitely personally relate to this. And I would probably give this like a. six. Yeah, I think it's a little lower for me, maybe like a four, but I think it's worth a discussion about how you're annoyed about that kind of thing. And again, I think if he brought it as a discussion, like, with some vulnerability of like, I'm, I'm a little anxious that my cousin who's like a materialistic bitch is going to, is going to see this and think it's, it's not enough.

maybe that's wrong, but like I'd rather, you know, it's not something. I don't really want to deal with it. I would much rather just like pay the difference to not have to like think about it. I know there being what like that would be like a little better. Right. Yeah. I think that would be great. And I do there probably is something there. Because when I think any time you give like a guideline on what type of gifts you'd like like no boxed gifts. Right. I find that a little off putting. It's kind of like, whatever I get you, you should be thankful for, whether it's a boxed gift or a gift card or. What does that even mean no boxed gifts? It has to be a gift card.

Yeah, I guess we're money. I don't know. Right. Yeah. Which checks only. That's kind of crazy. It's basically kind of what you're saying. Which I think for like, you know, a shower type thing.

It's kind of like I want to, sometimes people want like the heart to heart thing of like I got you something. that then you're going to go ahead and use, and that's going to make me feel good. You know, like I have love for your baby and I want to buy them something that's going to be from me. Like that feels like a connection that you're making with the person's baby in some ways. So it kind of takes the heart out of it

when you give these guidelines for exactly what type of gifts you'd like to give. So, yeah, I have a hunch. You're probably right. There might be something there about this cousin and, you know, he's feeling, yeah, he needs to fit into the mold of what she's expecting. So, yeah, I think I do feel personally triggered when I think about that, you know, story. Well, it'd be like if someone, if someone, like, added to your tip, if you were paying for dinner and then you added to someone's tip, you'd be like, yeah, that would be, that would be very

triggering, I think, for anyone. And I guess it's kind of a similar situation. Yes, it is similar. So she wants to feel like this should be enough and they should be thankful for this. And if they're not, then like, it's not really my problem. But, right. Yeah. All right.

It was a good question. I was oddly triggered by that. Interesting. It doesn't seem like a big deal. But I think it's almost like you're trying to buy the person's approval. Right. Or maybe he just doesn't want to hear it. Yeah.

You know, I get it's not. It really isn't even like, I know the, I think the boyfriend's just trying to please his mother and brother or whatever. it is. I wouldn't even be mad at him. It's more like the family dynamic that it's not going to be enough for this person. Right. Yeah. I don't think he's like, thinks any way, certain way about you. Yeah. I think he's probably just trying to shut everybody up. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's do one more. All right. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I have a triggered scenario for you that has to do with Jordana too. Ooh. Juicy. For some background, I run my own business and my husband works for his parents.

His family business is more Monday to Friday, whereas I work from home in a flexible schedule. I also take care of our two toddlers full time. I have worked in therapy on not feeling resentful, but I often feel that my husband's job is taken more seriously, even though for the past few years I have been the higher earner. It often feels like my in-laws think that I have a cute little side hustle versus a real business that supports our family. So here's my scenario. At a family gathering, we're talking about.

podcasts. I chime in that I'm a big podcast listener and there are some in particular that I love from this media company that is really cool because it was started by three best friends that knew each other since they were kids. My mother-in-law responds, that is cool. That could never be done by women. And I was shocked but also thrilled to say, actually, it's called Betches. And the friends are women. I swear I had adrenaline in my veins and this still pops up in my mind occasionally. And I'm truly baffled by the comment. We had not been talking about gender in any way. This was just what she immediately thought. So, how triggering is this? Am I too sensitive because of my existing feelings of not being taken seriously because I am a woman slash mom? Or is this totally rude? Sincerely,

a betch that means business. P.S. Thank you, Jordana, Sammy and Eileen, for giving me this moment. You're welcome. Yeah, I love this. I love this for you. Actually, I was like really happy. One, that you know, have such a fan and that what you guys do really is it it was like the perfect teed up setup for her to be like actually your whole way of thinking about gender is completely wrong and yeah i can't believe someone would say that that's crazy i i feel very flattered by the way thank you very much glad you're bragging about us to your mother-in-law and that we can help you um get one in with her yeah totally i i agree she must be like from a different generation and I could see why it's triggering, but I think if you can almost just say

it's not even her fault, it's like a product of the time in which she was raised. Maybe it'll take the, it's not, I don't think this, I mean, it's obvious that it wasn't personal. Yeah. I think it's like, if anything, it's personal, I think to the mother-in-law, I think, when people make these kinds of statements, especially if they're a woman themselves, to me, it's like maybe you have an insecurity about having not done more with your career. And therefore, it makes it easier to say that women can't do those kinds of things because it makes it easier to not think about what you maybe could have done in a different scenario.

Yes. And so I would imagine the only reason you would say that if you were a woman yourself would be because of some of your own internalized insecurities about working in women's roles in the workforce and how that validates or invalidates whatever you've done career-wise. Yes, totally. And maybe like we talk about that sometimes it can make you kind of feel bad for her and like not feel so angry because you kind of feel bad. I don't know if she had a career or if she just raised her kids, but maybe, yeah, she's probably feeling away about that. And I wonder if you could tell her more about what you do and kind of create a bond there that's deeper.

Again, with these mother-in-law relationships, sometimes it's kind of like, in order to fix it or repair it, you have to lean in and be vulnerable and kind of have the deeper relationship. Or you can just accept that it's sort of this cordial, nice, you know, like casual, there's going to be things about you that are going to annoy me. You're not going to maybe know me that well, but we're also not going to be. intertwined as much and I like the distance and the boundary or you can lean in and maybe be like, I want to tell you more about my business and what I do and my day and how like I put my one kid down for a nap and then I take a call and, you know, just kind of letting her know sort of

how much you're doing in a way of like, I want you to get to know me in my daily life. And maybe that would help her understand. And maybe she would open up about, oh, wow, like I'm actually envious of that. Like I never got to feel like I had control over finances in my home when I was raising my kids or I don't know. Maybe you could deepen the conversation and kind of get her like we're talking about to be more vulnerable. But if not, I think this is definitely a her issue. It's not personal. And I could see why it's triggering. But it's like you said, if this was coming from a man, it would probably feel way more triggering coming from a woman. It almost feels like sad. Yeah, no, I could see that.

It's almost, it's not, almost not as bad coming from a woman. I think that's a good way to look at it. If she wants to go there, I think she could do that. If not, I would work on, I would work on your, those feelings of resentment because it does, I would be very annoyed if I'm taking care of the kids full time. I'm earning more money and no one takes what I do seriously. That would be quite a very thing. It's not the betches comment. That's, that's the issue that needs to be.

if it can't come from your mother-in-law, I think it needs to come more from your husband. And he might not be doing it either because maybe he feels a little insecure. I do think the insecurity is coming from the deeper place that you suggested. And I think this is probably maybe if she can't get that validation from the mother-in-law, maybe she can get it from the husband who might not be giving it to her because maybe he has that insecurity of like she's doing the load of the parenting and she's making more money. So sometimes when you feel insecure, it's a topic that you lean away from. because nobody likes to, you know, shine the spotlight on their own wounds. Right.

But then that's how you get resentful. Exactly. Yeah. So I think she could, you know, I don't know if she's talking. She seems like she's putting it more on like the mother-in-law, that the mother-in-law doesn't respect what she's doing. Maybe I don't know, but maybe she could, she needs more validation from the husband because it does sound like she's doing a lot. Yeah. And maybe the husband could speak about her all that she's doing to the mother-in-law.

Yes, that's a good idea, too, to kind of make sure she's aware of like, she's kind of like a super mom. Right. Like you would want kind of that validation pretty frequently, I think, if you were carrying that entire load of like family and work life. And again, maybe it's his husband's insecurities that he doesn't do that, that he feels, you know, insecure about whatever he's contributing to. But I think that's, I think it's okay to say, like, you know,

even if even if you don't mind doing what you're doing, doing to say like I'd like a more acknowledgement. Yeah, this is definitely the more I think about it, he works for his parents too. So it's kind of like they've given him this job. So they're in some ways like kind of providing him with the way to provide for his family. So they both have this joint stake. Right. And not in feeling like that's very, that's like the big thing.

That's the big important thing. Because I think there's something, people don't talk about this a lot, but it's sort of like, and it's just our culture, I think more so with men, that like the parents want to believe that their son typically,

stereotypically, and I think in our culture, that their son is a good provider. That like is an ego thing for them to feel like I've raised a son that provides for his family. And that their business, which is also the provider,

is also like the best thing in their, in their son's life, let's say. Yes, yes, yes. And that their business is providing this beautiful life for their son and his family. They're like in this delusional world that protects their own sense of self and their own ego. So this is all about them. And your husband probably too. It really is hard.

It's, I'm not feeling bad for him because she sounds like, I don't know how she's working full time and having two toddlers at home. all day. I honestly don't know how she does that. But I think it's, there is like a bit of an ego blow that if he's not willing to be vulnerable with her about it and they can't have an open conversation, that's where the resentment's going to build. So I think the husband is the first stop. And I agree, maybe to, for, to send him to talk to the parents. And they all need to like drop their egos and worship this woman because she's amazing. Yes. Do not settle for anything less than being worship. But I'd give it a seven. That's just like a fucked up comment to make to a woman who you know owns a business. Yes. Yes. This could never be done by women. To a woman who literally,

it's not even like she works for someone else and she said that. Like, that is her job. Is that she's a business. Right. It's almost like they're saying, don't even bother trying. Like, you'll never get there. I agree. Seven's a good number. But it's a good story to tell your friends. Yeah. We did it. We did it. Proud of us. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby. Editing by Jazz. Zipatos guest booking by Ali Friedlander and send your emails to oversharing at betches.com. Betches.