Oversharing - Should Your Therapist Offer Unsolicited Advice?

Episode Date: September 5, 2023

Jordana is back from vacation and Dr. Naomi tells her about an eye-opening form of therapy (called neurodynamic breathwork) that she was excited to try. They offer advice to a listener who is feeling confused now that the person she’s seeing suddenly became distant over text. Is it okay to demand a phone call from a guy to see where your relationship stands? The Betchicist question comes from an emailer who was invited to the wedding of a not-so-close friend. How obligated should you feel to attend a costly wedding, and when are you required to send a gift? The Intentions email of the week, presented by The Knot Vendor Marketplace, comes from a recently engaged bride-to-be that has no desire to plan an actual wedding. Finally, they end the show by rating some Triggered scenarios about a height-based slight, and an unsolicited piece of advice from a therapist. Thanks again to our presenting sponsor! Find vendors for every wedding on The Knot Vendor Marketplace by visiting theknot.com/oversharing Oversharing: Calm TF Down is available now, featuring our series of guided meditations! Become a subscriber in the Apple Podcasts app or go to subscribe.betches.com Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordan Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How is it going? It's at this point, I guess, this is airing beginning of September.

It's kind of crazy. The summer flew by. Yes, that's it. It's over. Ish over ish, except for the fact that it's still extremely hot, but summer is officially over other than that. Yeah, I just got back from my trip to Italy. It was great.

The only complaint I had was that it was extremely hot. But it's interesting, like, again, not to be that person who goes abroad and starts, like, speaking like they know another culture entirely. Right. But it was like, there must have been, I think there was a heat wave of, it was like in the 90s. every day. And I kind of feel like the European restaurants and like places, they're like, there's like air conditioning, but it's not like an American air conditioner where it's just you walk in and it's

like. You need to put a jacket on. Yeah. Like so. But because of that, I was still kind of like mildly hot the entire trip. Right. Right. I, you know what I'm going to say about this?

You have to just like, I think. I think if you're mildly hot all the time, you just get used to being mildly hot and then you don't really, your body adjusts. And did you feel like after the week or so that you were kind of adjusted, it didn't bother you as much or not really? A little bit, especially at night because I like to sleep in like cold. Yeah, that I could see. In the beginning, it was hard to sleep. But I do think you kind of do adjust and it does, it does kind of remind me of what you and I talk about on here of sort of leaning into your discomfort. comfort and then it kind of goes away when you stop just thinking like it's never going to it's just

never going to be cold enough for me totally and and it just kind of did remind me of like maybe it's like a cultural like american need to just always be comfortable and you know that's talked about I'm not the first person to talk about that there's like fast food yes extreme cold and like everything's big like so much like the portions are big everything is just kind of like tailored to you maximize yeah Right. Maximize comfiness. And even like the, you know, the buildings are always new. Like, and you go to Europe and everything's like a thousand years old.

Right. People, it just seems like people are okay with being a little uncomfortable, which is nice. Right. And then it's, again, uncomfortable is a state of mind. So after a while, they're not probably really uncomfortable because they're not paying attention to being uncomfortable because they're just used to whatever that is. You know, it's so funny. that you mention it because obviously it's been super hot here and the air conditioning's blasting

and I'm like climate change and global warming and it's getting so hot and then I try to do my little bit where like I wait in the pickup line for the to pick up the kids in the car and I see all these cars just like idling their big enormous gas guzzling engines sitting there for 20 minutes and I'm like it's so hot and the planet's getting hotter so and Jeff thinks I'm crazy but I'll like turn off the engine and like open the windows and just sweat because I'm sort of like I can't do your part. I'm trying to do my part and I feel like I'm like pissing in the wind. But at the same time I also try to embrace this whole thing of like if we all just get used

to being a little hot, then maybe we can all like turn our ACs down a little bit and just all get used to being a little bit not like per like it doesn't have to be like 68 degrees all time. Like maybe I can be a little warmer. Maybe it could be 74 degrees. And if we all did that, that might help a little like the maximizing comfort thing. I get it. It's just. It kind of reminds me of I watched this documentary when I was like 22. I think it was the Joaquin Phoenix documentary about like being vegan or something. And documentary is like kind of traumatizing. It really goes into like all the stuff behind all of the meat. all of like the animal products and stuff like that.

And the crux of it was basically like, just like there's like an animal Holocaust every day of like millions and millions of animals that are just like tortured and killed like so that we could like have a burger. Right. We feel like that's okay. And I think I would vegan for like a week after that. Yes. And then I would get it.

That stuff is super inspiring for a minute until you forget about it. and then you're like just smell a burger and yeah, I hear you. So I did want to share this experience that I had where I tried this thing called neurodynamic breathwork, which I had never, I've done breathwork before. I've tried all sorts of different breathwork techniques. But this one was started basically by someone who, I don't know, I don't remember exactly, I don't know if it was psilocybin or ayahuasca or he had some kind of psychedelic experience. and he felt like it really changed him, but he was sort of like, I don't want to continue doing this.

And he wanted to find a natural alternative to that type of thing. And he created this neurodynamic breath work, which is basically, it's like an hour-long breathing exercise where you do just like this intense deep breathing. And it creates a sensation in your body, like differing sensations in your body that allow you to sort of quiet that ego mind, which is a big part of what's like. psychedelics do. And it was pretty cool. I think the biggest takeaway is that it sort of eliminates your need to tell a story about your emotions. You know, like if you're feeling sad or you're feeling rejected or whatever it is that you're feeling, it almost allows it to just like be and live in your

body. And the biggest thing is that allows you to express it. So people typically do this like in person, in big groups, like, I've never done that type of thing. This was an online experience that I hadn't actually. Guided? It's guided. Well, no, it's not exactly guided. It's guided in the beginning. He gives you the instructions in the beginning.

And then there's this like intense music that happened. Like you're not really guided for the hour that you're doing it. He tells you what type of breathing to do. He gives you some instructions about what to do and how to handle different situations that arise. Like if your mind starts wandering back, like how to kind of come back to the breath. But once you're sort of in this place,

you just sort of, it's this open-ended allowing. So the idea is whatever happens, allow it to happen. And then he gives some gentle, like he's like, whatever sounds come up, allow yourself to just make those sounds.

Are you guys muted? Were you muted virtually? Yes, I was muted virtually. Okay. So that's the reason why I thought it was was because it was like this private kind of thing that I was doing by myself. And I did, it did allow me to sort of open up to the sounds that come with emotions. And I think in our culture specifically, we are taught that like expressing these like intense emotional sounds is like,

like, like not okay. Like it means that you're like histrionic or psychotic or there's something wrong with you or like this wailing, crying, whatever that. I mean, it just reminds me of that trigger that someone wrote in about the person at yoga making those noises and we're like, ugh, gross. But you can do this in the privacy of your own home. And that, I don't think that was more like I'm just like, you know, maybe like moaning and relief. This was like a deeper, felt like a deeper emotional.

Like almost these are. for someone if you've had deep trauma. I mean, it could be helpful for anyone, but let's say someone has had trauma or they're going through something really hard and they're having a lot of emotional pain around it. It's almost like the pain stays in your head a lot. And this allows the pain to kind of be embodied

in the sense of like, if I want to wail, like that's part of our human. Like if you see animals that are like elephants that lose their children, and they like cry and they wail and I'm always a big fan of crying and like releasing that and there's like movement in it like I found myself kind of like rocking and like moving and just like allowing my body to kind of like express whatever physical manifestations of the emotion were coming out and you're doing it in privacy and it allows you to kind of I think let your body do its natural healing process

which I think our culture squashes a little bit, if that makes sense. Because it needs to be more contained, you're saying, especially in a therapy thing. I see what you're saying where like you're telling a story, but you're not really, you can react to it, but you're not supposed to like overly emoting. Yeah. Like you could shed a few tears or even like cry.

And, you know, with a therapist, that's probably like the most you're going to do or with like a super close loved one. but even for men, you know, like even men are really conditioned not even to cry, that that's like, you know, so they're holding all of that in a lot, even more so than I think women are. But like, if you ever see people that are just in unbridled grief, they're like wailing and throwing themselves on the floor and like allowing themselves to have these like big grief reactions, but that's not, we don't see that often, even though they're,

are a lot of people that are experiencing grief. Like we don't really see those types of grief reactions. So this is an outlet for that, which I think could be cool for people that do feel like they have a lot of pent up grief or trauma to allow themselves that space to express it. I thought it was cool. And there's a legit, like in the beginning of it, I literally felt like numbness and tingling in my body just from. And I think that's that experience.

allowed me to really buy in. And once you buy in, then you can kind of let yourself go and let yourself heal. And it almost feels like being like hypnotized, but different. Like if you're like, you know what you mean? If you let yourself go there. Yes. You can go there. They kind of say that like it works on certain people who are like willing to believe it works. A hundred percent. And that's how psychedelics work. Right. They like give you this experience that like you can't help but buy into it because it's like taking over. And that's, you're 100% right. Hypnosis won't work if the whole time you're like, this is bullshit. This isn't going to work. And same thing with this neurodynamic breath work. Like, it's not going to work if you're like, oh my God, this is ridiculous. This isn't going

to work. Because then you're in your story. You're in your mind. You're not like in your body, allowing your body to just do its thing. So, and the one that I did, they offer it for free. So if you're out there and you just want to give it a try. Oh, cool. What's it called? You can go to breathworkonline.com. And the founder's name is Michael Stone. And I thought it was a pretty cool experience. Are you going to try to do it in your therapy sessions for your clients? You know, I'd have to be trained in it.

I mean, it does seem pretty simple, but I'm not trained in it. I thought about getting trained in it. It really is a lot of it. They play this like intense like drumming music and this music that like brings up like and, you know, kind of conjures up intense emotions, but most of it you're really doing by yourself. Like, he starts you off. He guides you. He tells you what to do. But the hour of breathing, you're on your own. Well, if you get certified, that would be a fun thing to lead on here. Yeah. That would be pretty cool. It is a very cool experience. I recommend people,

give it a shot. And it's the type of thing where you, one time you can get a taste of it, but the idea is that you do it multiple times. And then you can kind of train that part of your brain a little bit to strengthen that part of you that doesn't always have to be telling the story of your pain. You're just feeling your pain and then releasing it and you're not like beholden by the story of who did what to you and who's wrong and who's right and how am I going to salvage my ego in this scenario and not feel like I'm a bad person or my future is going to be terrible or you know, just all the chatter that we do around our emotions and just let me be. Right. be what they are.

I like that. Maybe I'll try it. Yeah, try it. You need two hours. It's free. Is there camera on you? No, you could turn on, I turned off my camera, I turned off my mic, and I just listened to the music. Oh, okay.

That's great. As long as there's no participation needed. So there's not participation needed, but I will say this. They do have like a, they have like at the end of it, like a, what do you call it, like a forum, like a chat session. Yeah, where you can share your experience. And it was interesting because I actually did share my experience, which I thought was interesting that I was like emoting in this way, like vocalizing, which was weird for me.

I'm like, I had that feeling too of like this. If anyone comes in here right now, like they're going to think that there's like, that this is like really weird, right? So I had that experience and I was trying to like accept it and allow it and be in it. But it was funny because a few days before. And this just happens with kids, like with my kids where they're like crying about something. And to me, whatever they're crying about like doesn't seem like a big deal. And so like I'll be empathic and I'll try and I'll do all the things that, you know,

listening and letting them speak. But then after a while I'm like the crying's not helping. Get over it. Like it's not like let's change the channel in our mind kind of thing. But it was funny because when I was doing this, I had this experience and it made me think of that. Like that's what they need. they just, if they just need to cry, I don't need to make it stop just because it's like eliciting something at me. If they need to like cry because whatever, they can't have a cookie,

like, okay, you can cry because you can't have a cookie. It doesn't mean I'm going to give you a cookie. It doesn't mean I have to tell you not to cry. You'll cry. You'll get it out of your system. And then maybe you'll feel like you got that emotion out. Yeah. I guess though, like, where's the line into adulthood where like, where like, where they become someone who's at their grocery store and they don't have the snack they were looking for and they're just crying in the aisle. Right. Well, the truth is, so look, I guess they're age dependent, right? If you have a five-year-old that's crying because they don't have a cookie, okay, get it. Like the point is, I'm not going to give him the cookie just because he's crying. And eventually, I think he'll figure out that the crying

is not coming from a manipulative place of like, if I cry, I get what I want versus the crying is coming from a place of like, this is my body's way of like working through this emotion of frustration and disappointment, whatever it is. But I do think that like we, even as adults, we tend to really stifle kids in their expression. We don't have to give them what they want to make them stop crying. We can just like let it run its course and just like be there and like, then it becomes less manipulative because they're still not getting what they want. They're just like cleansing their body of that emotional energy. But then is the idea, like when do they then, how do they then learn that like eventually

that's not really an appropriate response to just feeling discomfort? I think it will happen naturally. Once if it's not manipulative and that's what happens. Like I think eventually when they realize that they can use that to get what they want, that's a whole different thing than just I'm having this emotion. And then I think it happens when it really needs to happen. Right. when they're having like a breakup or something.

Yes. You know, a significant thing that is really upsetting for them. Right. Versus like you took my phone away for three hours and now I'm going to like hysterically cry or whatever. Or if they're hysterically crying because you took their phone away, it's because they're like afraid that their friends are going to not be their friends anymore. Or what, you know, if there's some deeper thing, then maybe they do need to like release that

fear emotionally and, you know, whatever that is. I think it's a good, my personal feeling is it's, when I experience that, that there is some, like, pent up emotional energy in there, it made it easier for me to kind of allow my kids or others to have that emotion. Okay, I like that. A little grace for the mentee bees around the nation. Right. I had a feeling that you were, that you were going to feel a way of.

about this. That's why I'm so curious to see you try it and see if you can actually give in and like vocal, make like, you know, vocalize or movements or just kind of get in touch with that like kind of animal part of you that feels, you know? I think I could do that privately. I think there's something very off putting about the idea of like being that raw around strangers or even people you know it feels, I don't know. There is a feeling of like a containment. but I think if it was like me alone in my room, I could probably do it. Do it. Okay.

Send me the link after this. I will. I want to see what happens. I did it very privately. I didn't want anyone to like, you know, see or hear or, you know, it feels like a very vulnerable state of like getting in touch with your inner emotions. The versions of that that you see are people who are kind of unhinged. Yes.

Like, it's not like the most normal, well, functioning. adjusted adult is like that you're seeing generally is having like a animalistic reaction to something in public right well it's acceptable if it's like grief right like if you've lost a child or if you've like there's some like deep grief but there are people out there that have that similar type of deep grief over whatever it is like the loss of a of a relationship or that feels very similar to the deep grief where it's acceptable but even then it's not like entirely acceptable but maybe if it was we'd move through this much more quickly rather than like having an entire podcast dedicated to dealing with like breakups if we just all

allowed ourselves because it's like all about telling the story about it which is more controlled and interesting and like takes up this mental energy but you're not really healing from the inside out right and that's really just like it's not as relevant as the feelings but it's easier to hold on to. Yeah. Okay. Well, I like it. I might try it.

Yeah, fine. Two hours. You can do it. You don't have to share. Oh, two hours. Well, it's a half an hour with the intro, like where he tells you what to do and how to do it. It's an hour of the actual breathing.

And then there's a half an hour of like the debrief, which if you wanted to skip that part, you could. Yeah. This seems like a good thing to do virtually because you can be fully private as opposed to if you were in the room. And you might. But maybe if you. you liked it virtually and you got into it like maybe the next step would be being in a room.

Yeah. Even I, but that would make me anxious to. Same. Try it. I'm curious. I'll send you the link. I'll give it a shot. And if you guys, you know, if you want something a little more light than that to get to get into their meditation journey or the breath to body.

Yes. Journey. You guys, it's now September 4th. It means we have two new meditations out on our calm the fuck down. meditation experience on on this show. So those are already out right now. If you want to subscribe, you can also get these episodes ad free. This month, we're doing a meditation for sending a risky text and then also feeling overwhelmed at work. Two things. I'm sure almost everyone living and breathing can relate to. And if you want to try it out, you can also get a seven day free

trial. You can go to subscribe.betches.com or if you're in the Apple Podcast app, you can just check it out. It's right on your feed. You can subscribe right on there. And thank you guys for writing in with your emails. We've got a great episode today. If you have a voicemail that you want to leave us, you can call 646363-6294. Or if you want to email us, you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. Let's jump right in. Okay, I'll read the first email our first overshare. Hi, Jordana and Naomi. This is my first time ever writing into a podcast. I listened to almost all. all the batches media work and I love this podcast so much and I am a social worker too. I have a triggered situation I need advice.

I just got out of a boring 11 month relationship and got on the app shortly after. I matched with this one guy who also just got out of a two and a half year relationship and said he was looking for a relationship. Anyway, let's call him new Sam. My ex was also Sam. I wonder if we could do a whole thing about people like dating the person with the same name because I've done that too. I've dated like a few mics actually in the past.

Really funny. And you ended up with a mic. That's a whole different thing. That's what I'm saying. Like I wonder if that's, you know. Subconscious repair, right? Like you're trying to. Potentially.

Yeah. Okay. Anyway, we went on three dates within six days and sort of hit it off. I say sort of because he was kind of shy, but we had a lot of chemistry. He was texting and Snapchating me a lot like text and snap at the same time. L.O.L. we are adults, but whatever, to each their own. On date three, we got drinks and then hung out at his place after and hooked up as we also did

the prior dates. In bed, he kept saying how much he liked me and we had some pretty deep convoes and I felt a connection to him. Then he just stopped texting me. I felt the vibes were off right the next day when he didn't text me good morning as he had been for like three weeks prior to ever meeting. My friends told me I was insane and people just don't always text the way I do. I'm a big obsessive textor. Anyway, there were a few times I asked. asked to hang out. He wasn't available, but would say things like, ah, sometimes soon, smiley face. He's been randomly texting me and having the most dry convos like, hey, how is your day or what's up, et cetera, and then responding with one word answers. So since I was annoyed, I tried to be more

forward and cut the BS. I straight up told him to text me in the morning one night to make plans to go out again because maybe boy needs a hint, but no follow up on that. Two days later, he sent a random text that said, hey, good look at your new job. Thoughtful, but what? What? I haven't heard from him in five days and it's been on my mind. I'm wondering if I should A, text him and see what's up, but why? B, straight up ask if he has any interest in going out again. So if I get the no from him, I can unfollow, etc. C, wait around and be annoyed. Help. Thanks so much for all you do. Sincerely, annoyed, 25 and single. And what the fuck is wrong with men, betch? Yeah, this is so relatable. It's a tale as old as time.

Tell as old as time. C is not an option in my mind. Like I just feel like your life is precious. You don't want to wait another day if it's on your mind. If you can shake it and just be like, all right, he's not that interested. I want to be pursued or all that stuff that people feel when they're in this stage. And you don't think about it, then great. Then just move on.

But I don't think that's not even an option for her, moving on and not being irritated. So that's not one of the choices. waiting around and being annoyed as, which I think is that process of elimination I would cross out see first. I agree, even though that's definitely what I used to do, because I found it to be like, in my mind, it was the power move, but in reality, it's actually the least powerful move because you're so afraid of seeming like you care that you actually just decide to suffer. Yes. So it doesn't really make any sense, but I understand why one would do that.

Yeah, and I think part of why people do that is because, and we'll just talk about like your typical male, female dynamic and I'm just going to use stereotypes. But you know what it feels like to have a guy that is too interested and maybe that makes you less interested because he's showing interest. So it feels like, oh, I know kind of what it feels to be on the other side of this. And I don't want to come on too strong and turn him off. Yeah, for sure. So I get that perspective of like I have to kind of play hard to get or I have to, you know, but if he's, if you haven't heard from him in five days, like it's not working. That was sort of the other thing I was thinking about this email in particular because she said

I just got out of a very boring 11 month relationship. And this reminds me a lot of like that book attached that I read, which is basically like when you have a little bit of an anxious attachment, you kind of find like stable, healthy relationships to be boring. And I can see why she'd be like, because she kind of describes the situation is, she said they hid it off, but also that he was kind of quiet and there was, you know, maybe she's amplifying the connection in her head because he's sort of withholding. And now she's convinced herself that he's amazing maybe because she's coming out of this

other relationship that was stable. And she's like, I want more excitement. And she's sort of mistaking the excitement of not being. sure if someone's into you for general excitement about a guy. Dang, ding, ding. I think you're 100% right. And I think if he would have continued texting her good morning and been like, I had so much fun last night, I can't wait to see you again.

And like was like laying it on and whatever connection she's now idealizing in her mind might have been if he was just like, yes, I'm in this. Like I want to see you on Tuesday. And then the same thing happened. and they just lived happily ever after, I don't know that she would be writing into us with like anything having to do with this or even that excited about it.

I think you might be right. I don't know for sure, but I do believe that she probably is looking for a little bit of a chase, not this much, right? It has to be like just the right amount of chase. Like five days is too much. You know, one day is too little. She probably needs something in the middle.

and, you know, he's not abiding by her Goldilocks standards of what exactly is the perfect amount of chase. Do you feel like it's okay to sort of desire that or is that automatically unhealthy? No, I think, I don't think it's automatically unhealthy. But I do think that once you reach your point where you're like, this doesn't feel good anymore and you communicate that, If that is the point where the other person is sort of like turned off by that, then that's when it's unhealthy. So I think like you can enjoy the butterflies and like have that be an exciting thing. And if it moves beyond your little Goldilocks, you know, period where it's like too much.

And then she does what she's asking us probably to tell her to do, which is to say, hey, I've been feeling a little pullback. Like I just want to find out where your head's at. if he's kind of like comes at it with either, you know, not telling the truth and just distancing himself further, then that, and she continues to chase, then that's unhealthy. Or if she gets to this point where she, you know, tells him that. And then he's obviously like, yeah, I think it was moving a little too fast for me. And I'm not sure how I feel.

Then she can like evaluate that and handle it. But I do think once you get to that point where it's like taking up space in your head, doesn't feel fun anymore, feels frustrating, making you doubt yourself, all those other things that come along with it. I think that's the point where like, okay, now I can communicate. And if this communication is like a turn off to him, then I have to like exit the situation. Because being in a relationship with someone where when you communicate what you feel, that turns them off, that's unhealthy. No, I totally agree.

I wish I had known that earlier. Yeah. And look, it's exciting for like. a day, right? You're at work and you're thinking about him and you're reminiscing and you sent the text and he hasn't responded yet. And like, that's all fun and that's exciting. And maybe there's a little bit of chase there. But then if you like go to bed and he still hasn't responded to the text and you wake up and he still hasn't responded, now it's not like not fun anymore. Right. Now it just makes you feel bad. Yeah. So I agree. I think your method, which is sort of a

mix of A and B, I guess, is the best one to just say, like, say what's going on in your experience. I'm feeling a little bit of a pullback. Are you still interested in seeing each other again? That's it. And honestly, the part that's difficult is like, and you can tell me, because you're closer to this probably than I am, is like, the idea of calling someone on the phone and having a phone call is just like, whoa, like, I never said I wanted to get married. It's like, calling someone on the phone is like a marriage proposal you know like I think these conversations could go much better if you could have them on the phone but I feel like nobody just does that I think they could I think it feels like again if you think about like the fear of like turning someone off it's like

now they want to like have a serious talk we went on three dates so I can understand why you wouldn't want to do that. But I agree, like, that would be the ideal situation to cure someone's tone and get their voice and be able to ask a question that you could get an immediate response to. Because, like, that's the other part about texting that thing. And again, we have a, we have a meditation out right now about sending a risky text. Right. And in this case, the risky text would be like, are you still interested in going out? Which is like, yeah, it's a vulnerable. You've been vulnerable. You've said, like, I send something. I'm interested in this.

And you're leaving yourself open to rejection. It's the fear that, like, that person doesn't answer for five hours. Yes. And then you're just, now you're sitting there in an amplified version of what you've been sitting in for the past five days. Right. Totally. And that's why even if there was a phone call, it might not even need to be like a whole talk.

It might just be like a phone call catch up that ends with like planning a date. You know, instead of this like, you know, you know, text me, I text you three hours back. You text 24 hours later. It's like everything's like pulling teeth because people can't get on the phone. Like I do wish that we could bring back a phone call every now and then because then it's like all this is concise. It's all in one 15 minute phone call. You can hear the tone. Does he sound excited? Is he asking me questions? Do we plan a date at the end of the phone call? And then I can move on with my life. But I don't think I'm going to convince people out there to call someone that they've been on two or three dates with on the phone,

which, I mean, it does sound kind of crazy that that's like so absurd that you would have a 15-minute phone call with someone that you probably had sex with or like at least, you know, been like pretty intimate with, but you can't yet call them on the phone for 15 minutes. No, I agree. I think it's like very, I just think as, you know, technology, as it's become so easy to contact people in these sort of low stakes, low lift ways. She talks about them Snapchating, which to me is in itself a red flag. The app where your messages disappear, it's all about sort of making communication as

low stakes and as meaningless as possible. Like a phone call is meaningful. That's, I think, why people are so hesitant to do them because it just connotes like real meaning. Yes. This relationship has real meaning. And you know what? If it does to her, I think that's a great thing.

to do is to say like can we talk on the phone it's saying without saying it this is meaning to me right totally i encourage all strong confident women out there to call the guy call him on the phone put him on the spot like what is the big deal like especially if you've actually like had sex with this person the fact that you cannot dial their phone number and hear their voice and like have a conversation with them after that is I get it but it's like I wish we could turn that around so if you're out there and you're confident and you're dating and you have a question or you want to figure out where someone's heads at call them on the phone and if that's too much for them be gone yeah no it's totally true I had a guy tried to break out with me over text and I asked him

for a call and he was like do you really want to you really like yeah it's like you're like Would you rather text? I'm like, I think I deserve a call. Yeah, totally. Well, that was probably just you wanting to make him uncomfortable, like even though you knew what he was going to say. Yeah, I mean, of course I knew what he was going to say, but it's kind of like, I think if you are ending something with someone that you slept with, it's nice to call them.

It's crazy. I mean, the whole concept, like I can put my penis in you, but I can't talk to you on the phone for 15 minutes. Right, to tell you I'm no longer interested in doing just that. So I really, I think women need to take more control over this situation. It's like, I'm a mature human and I don't want to wait three hours for a text back from you. I have work to do. I have things to take care of.

I have a life to live. So I'm going to call you on the phone and you can just be a mature person pick up and figure out like how to connect or not. Yeah. Anyway. Well, we're bringing back the phone call in Q4, 20. 23. Yes. And you're good at that.

Like with your friendships, I think you really value that or like with relationships. Like I think you're always one that's like, all right, I'm not going to get into a whole paragraphing thing here. Like I'm just going to call you on the phone and discuss whatever it is. And I think that works so much better for so many things, especially when it's like these romantic. I'm not sure how you feel. Yeah.

I think any conversation with any kind of nuance really needs to be done face to face. or over the phone because it's just like you just don't get the whole vibe from someone otherwise and she'll get the vibe she'll get what would have taken her three days to get in a 10 minute phone call if he picks up and if he doesn't and he doesn't call her back then there's your answer he's not going to pick up that's the other yeah he's not going to pick up I think like if what's going on here is what we suspect it is which after five days of no texting I think the writing is a little bit on the wall yeah but if he's the kind of person to do that I don't think he's picking up.

Right. And she could text him and ask him if he wants to get on a call. Right. See if he answers that. But that's my point too. It's like there's your answer then. If you call someone and they don't call you back, then she can skip right to, you know, be.

I get the no from him and I can unfollow, et cetera. So I think it's also, yes, you're going to have to do that waiting period and you can listen to the meditation and like learn how to tolerate the. unknown and realize you're going to be okay no matter what and all that stuff. But if you don't get the call back, then you know that this isn't what you're looking for. Good luck. Now it's all phone calls. Texting should be for like information. This is where we're meeting. This is the name of the restaurant. Yes. How was your day? Any kind of conversation that's heavier than that phone call in person. And I think that's the confident person.

needs to take charge of that and just be like, I'm going to be fine no matter what. If he doesn't like this, then he's not trying to connect in the way that I'm trying to connect or she or whatever it is. I feel like the phone call in 2023, it kind of feels like it would kind of feels like showing up to someone's door in like 1992. Right. It's true. You're like, they're going to think I'm a complete lunatic.

Yeah. Can you believe she called me after three dates? Like, whoa, psycho. Right. It's like popping in. Oh, my gosh. It's true. What has this world come to?

Let's do a betcha assist. Do you want to read this one? Yeah, I'll read this one. All right. Hi, Dr. Dana and Dr. Naomi, huge fan of your podcast and look forward to listening every week. A betcha assist question for you, which I totally thought was betch assist until you clarified recently.

A friend of mine from college is getting married next year at a destination that is a four-hour flight away from where I live. Attending the wedding would require my partner and I to pay for flights, hotels, overnight care for our dog, et cetera, and would be an expensive excursion. The destination itself is an expensive one to stay in. Some background on my relationship with the bride to be. I'm not particularly close with this friend, but we share a ton of mutual friends. We never hang out one-on-one but see each other about quarterly and groups.

We also don't live in the same city at this point, but we used to, so we used to see each other more often. The majority of our mutual friends, to my knowledge, are planning to attend her wedding. I don't really feel a need to get closer to this friend. We don't mesh super well, though I don't dislike her or anything like that. It's also worth noting that I have not had a wedding yet, so I don't know if she would travel for an event for me. What is my obligation to attend her wedding, knowing that I'm very free on the actual weekend of the event and could go from a logistical point of view. Is just sending a gift enough? Is there a general rule around attending weddings that require flights, hotels, and other travel costs from a bet she's trying to be more protective of her time

and energy? I like this question. It's a great question for two people who had destination weddings. Yes, totally. Right. Yeah, my feeling is if you don't think it's going to be fun to like hang out with your whole group of mutual friends and you're not going to be looking like that to me would maybe make it worth it if you think that that would be just like a good time and a good friend's trip which I will say now that I'm past all of this my friends and I have no reason to do that stuff so I do kind of miss it because it was nice to kind of have these built in weekends where everyone got together for weddings and now it's like no reasons why we do that So I would enjoy that if that's something that you would enjoy.

But I think if this isn't a friendship that you want to lean into and that you are willing to kind of, you'd have to be willing to almost let it go, I think, if you were going to say no for no reason, which is also fine. So I think it's okay to say no. And I also don't think you need to make up an excuse. I think you could just say, so sorry, we can't be there. Have a great time. Sending a gift would be really great.

And that's it. I don't think she has to go. I think if you wanted to or you thought it would be fun, go for it. But I don't think you need to go to do the right thing. Totally agree. I think as someone who had fairly recently, O Destination Wedding, most of the people at the friendship level

that this person is saying that they are with this person did not come to my wedding. And I think there's maybe like a 10 second little sting when someone says no and you know they're just like not coming because you're not close enough. But you can't, if you're like a self-aware person,

I think you also know that and that it's a big ask and that someone who isn't that invested in the friendship won't feel like they need to be there, which is fine. Right. I don't think anyone is wrong in that situation.

So I totally agree. I think she cannot go. I think it could be fun if all her friends are there. That's more of the reason to go, it seems, than like needing to celebrate this person's love. Yes. Yes. And I think that most people know that too. So I would say no. If you want to maintain the friendship in any sort of sense, I would send a gift. If you don't, I don't think you have to.

Actually. Yeah. Like I think that if you're invited to a destination of a wedding of someone you don't really feel like you're ever going to see again or maybe you'll see one more time in your life and you don't really feel like you're investing in that friendship. I don't think you need to send a gift. Yeah. I think sending the gift. is a nice way to like make this, smooth this over, make it nice. I, if we see each other, it'll be great. I don't have to feel awkward. I think you could, you know, maybe shoot a text after the wedding, looked beautiful.

So, you know. You looked great. Yeah, so happy for you. And then continue on as if nothing ever happened. It's tough. I mean, it feels like not going to someone's wedding. Sometimes feels like this huge rejection. But I also think it sounds like this trip is going to cost her at least,

several thousand dollars probably. So like that's a big ask. A lot of the times people have these destination weddings because they know people will not come. Like that's sort of part of the appeal is that they get to invite, and this was a little bit of the appeal to me, is that I get to invite a lot of people

while knowing that a lot of people wouldn't come. Yeah. But not feel like I was like rejecting or not inviting those people to my wedding, but also sort of like most of the time people decide to do a destination wedding, it's because they want a smaller guess list. Right. And you have to be okay with people saying no. Like I think the fact, if we flip it, the idea that someone would have a destination wedding, that's a four-hour plane ride away

for somebody, plus whatever expenses they're going to spend there and getting there. And like you said, you know, taking care of your dog, et cetera, if someone's going to get mad at you and like have hard feelings towards you for not doing that, they're going to have a lot of difficult relationships. You're not going to be the only one. So I think when you're doing that, you cannot. You have to know that there's going to be a lot of people that say no. Like you said, I had that type of wedding and there were a lot of people that didn't come and I felt no differently about them. Like, I got it. It's expensive. And that's fine. Yeah. You can't make it. Let's go out to dinner when we get back and we'll cheers.

Just say sorry, we can't make it. That's a good general one. Yeah. And now it's time for a special segment brought to you by the not vendor marketplace with easy to use filters like location, ratings, aesthetic, and more. The knot helps take the stress out of your vendor search. Visit the knot.com slash oversharing to get started today. Each week, we answer an email from a listener who's looking for help setting intentions

for their big day and help them quell their pre-wedding jitters. Let's get into this week's email. Let's do it. Okay, I'll read it. Hi, Trudana and Dr. Naomi. I just got engaged. By just, I mean, three days ago, L.O.L. Congratulations.

I'm already anxious about wedding planning. I've never been the type who have dreamt of my wedding day. I am uncomfortable getting lots of attention and really never saw myself having a big wedding. I jokingly, not jokingly, said to my fiancé that we should just elope and he immediately shut it down. Rejected. It's funny when you get engaged and you find out what someone's like really strong preferences are immediately. She's like, oh, maybe we just have a cord.

No, not happening. I also said something to my mom about not wanting a big wedding before getting engaged. And her answer was, why not? You're so organized. You'd be so good at planning a wedding. Even though I quite literally have never planned an event. I foresee myself being able to compromise with a small destination wedding with just immediate. at family and very close friends or loping and having a reception later on. But I don't know if my

fiance and family will go for this. I also have to be mindful that he is elderly grandparents who would really want to be there. My grandparents have all passed so I don't feel tied to any specific location. Our families also live across the country from each other, so I would feel like I was choosing one of them over the other by picking one of our home states, which just adds more stress. I already feel all of the questions coming from my friends and family, and it's already stressing me out. I want to enjoy being engaged and plan something I really will be happy with. So how do I tune out everyone else's opinion and really plan something I want? I know this is also an important factor. My family would be the one contributing more financially between the two families.

Best, a courthouse wedding looks better every day. All right. I like this because I've said this to you before. I like weddings and wedding planning because I think it unearths some of the deeper issues that couples need to kind of go through before they get married in terms of like just having, opening up those conversations about what is meaningful to you. What, you know, this this one day becomes a big deal because it's supposed to kind of embody all these things about your relationship, things that are meaningful to you, things that, you know, are important for you to commemorate and share and experience. And I also think the lead up is a good way for you to express your fears, express your insecurities, express, you know, your concerns about joining

lives together and what that looks like. So the big thing that I have for her here is like, she's been engaged three days. And I think right now it probably feels a lot like more intense than it will in another week or two or month or two. But I feel like just using this as a time to lean in to conversations with her husband where she says, oh, maybe I'd like to elope and he shuts it down and just says no, that's a moment where it's like, okay, why? For him and her, what makes you say no so quickly about that? Why is that such an automatic? Like, no, I don't want that. What are you looking for in a wedding that that wouldn't allow for? And for her too, like what is she looking? for in a wedding that having a ton of people there wouldn't allow for for her.

Maybe it's, you know, like she said, not wanting to be the center of attention with people that she doesn't know that well or not wanting all these eyes on her and like allowing her to express that to her fiance and explore what that fear is, what that insecurity is. And for him, if he has a passion about like, you know, spending time with a bunch of people, or he loves like, you know, parties and, you know, dancing or, you know, what, or his family, really important that his family is there. Right. The whole family or whatever.

Yes. So this is a great opportunity to just have these conversations that are going to help bring you closer and help you understand each other better. It's like this, the wedding is the symptom. Whatever you want in your wedding is like a symptom of something that's meaningful to you. Or a rejection of something that's not meaningful. to you. Yes, exactly. And that's important to discuss. Like, I don't want everybody like pampering me the day before, like, or what the morning of? Like, that just doesn't feel like something that I need or something that I like or I don't want to have that this, you know, these are the parts that feel like uncomfortable for me. So you can even just sit down and write out lists of like, what are the part, what is meaningful to you in your life and how can we bring that into this wedding ceremony and reception? I like that a lot. The people. The people, Beyonce's rejection of the elopement is a good place to start.

He doesn't even know why he rejected it. I'm sure he was just like, whoa, no, that's not what I envisioned. Okay, well, let's explore that. What did you envision? Why? Right. What parts of the vision that you had feel like super exciting to you? Let's see if we can maintain those parts that feel super exciting.

Yeah, you definitely get to know a person a lot better when you're planning a very expensive wedding with all of your family and friends in attendance. Yes. I think it almost like exists for that reason somehow. I know it doesn't, but I think there is so much depth and connection that happens through the process. If you can do it the right way. If you just are like, I want this. Well, I want this. Well, now I'm mad at you because you don't want what I want.

And now we have like a conflict because I don't want what you want. And then it just stays there and you focus on the symptoms. Then it can become difficult. But it's a perfect, you know, breeding ground for communication and connection and getting to know each other probably better. than you did before. I like that advice a lot. Yeah. So I wrote an intention for her to think about as she's going through this,

if she chooses to take this advice, which is communication and connection with my fiance will lead us to a meaningful and joyful wedding. So this is about the two of you. This is about how you communicate. This is about how the two of you find meaning together. It's not about, you know, making other people happy. although maybe that's part is making other people happy something that you're both passionate about.

How do you feel about making other people happy? Is that something that really is important to you in your life and in what ways? So that's another piece of this that's going to come up. And you get to find out just how annoying you're in-laws are. It's another exciting part of it. So true. And like, how do you deal with that? You know, like, okay, we decided that we're not going to let your mom invite her whole bridge club or whatever it is. Like, okay, now how are you? are we going to communicate that to get to her together how are we going to tolerate her displeasure how are we going to try to soothe her or you know this is all part of this beautiful unfolding stressful process but i think it can bring you closer if you guys and that's why i do recommend a lot of

couples do therapy couples therapy before getting married because all these things on earth deeper things that you might not have touched on before you're joining making a huge joint decision that involves a lot of money and a lot of people and a lot of personalities and all that. Agreed. Good luck. If you're feeling very stressed on your wedding day about all of these things coming together, we have a meditation for the morning of your wedding day, which is literally the perfect thing to do to get into the right head space before you get started on your marriage and your wedding day. Also, another suggestion for anyone who wants to reduce the stress of planning a wedding, the Knoth vendor marketplace. When searching for that special someone to bring your wedding vision

to life, it helps to have the inside scoop and the knots got it. Maybe you want an ice cream cake to commemorate your first date at a Sunday shop or hire a marching band as a nod to your first kiss at band camp. Whatever feels authentically you, find it on the not vendor marketplace. Thousands of couples who know what it's like to be in your shoes have left reviews and ratings, helping you connect with vendors you can trust. All you have to do is visit the knot.com. slash oversharing to find top rated vendors near you. That's the knot, spelled K-N-O-T. All right, let's do some triggers. Do you want to read our first one? I'll read the first one. Sadusi. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I have a friendship triggered scenario for you. I've tried to

brush this off, but it's been three days after and I'm still triggered. I have a friend who I met in college and we've been friends for about five years. We were not very close in college, but have grown closer in the past year or so. We're both in our mid-20s, working women are in our both in relationship with men. We're having lunch recently when I mentioned in a conversation that my boyfriend was 5-9. I was continuing to speak when she cut me off to say almost laughingly, I'm sorry, but blank is not 5-9. He's my height, 5-7. Then she proceeds to mention how another friend of ours is also about 5-7 and she's taller than him. I was taken aback and said, Are you sure? No, he's 5-9. At least that's

what he said. I've asked him before. She went on to say, I'm sorry, inserts my name, but he is not five nine. My boyfriend is also my height, five, seven, and I don't mind. I didn't want to immediately seem upset or defensive, but I was. I don't care how tall her boyfriend is and whether or not she's okay with it. I've always instill like tall guys. I've only dated guys that were five, nine and above when I met my boyfriend. I believed he was tall enough for me because I'm only five, too. I mean, I liked him regardless and thought we looked good together, but now I feel kind of shallow that it bothers me that I've been potentially lied to all these years and I didn't know and that my boyfriend thinks he got away with it. Regardless, I went on to defend my boyfriend to say that I believe he's 5'9 because that's what he told me. And then I said we should all hang out soon because I want to see how tall you are next to him because she said they're the same height.

Oh my God. This is devolved so quickly. Everybody against the wall. This quickly became a very awkward conversation. When she realized how seriously I took this, she then said, no, you're not going to do that. Oh my God, I'm sorry. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he does think he's 5'9.

I haven't seen him in a while. About a year, so I could be wrong. Three days later, and I can't stop thinking about whether she's right. And honestly, I'm still pissed off that she thought she had to tell me this. How triggered could I be? I keep fighting the urge to bring this up to my boyfriend, because I don't want to. If my friend is right, then my boyfriend would be embarrassed, as it would mean that this

is something he's insecure about. And honestly, I don't have a lot of friends, so I don't want my boyfriend to dislike her, and I can't afford to hold a grudge against her either. Thanks and all the best. This is insane. Oh, my gosh. I think she's, like, missing the point of, like, how she feels about his height in person as, like, her boyfriend.

She's dating her boyfriend. She knows what his height feels like around her. The actual number to me doesn't fully make sense. 5-7 and 5-9, while they might seem like totally different, are kind of similar. Like I could see how someone who was like 5-8, 5-7 might say 5-9 and then because it makes them feel better. And it's the type of thing where it's like after the first date, it's a moot point. Like you saw me.

It's not like you lie about your age. and then like you never you could never find out and then finally you find out the truth and it's like whoa you have been lying this all time versus height it's kind of like you knew the second I stood up from the table how tall I was and either you were into it or you weren't into it like there was no yeah I think heights kind of like weight in some ways I mean obviously it's a little more objective but it's the kind of thing where like if you're kind of between two numbers you might go with like the lower, you know, that's in the case of the weight, the higher number. Right. Right. Right. Totally. Yeah. I mean, I think what's what's bothering her maybe.

There is a piece of it that's like my boyfriend lied to me and I need to find out the truth. Like get up against the wall and like, let's see what the truth is. Like that is ridiculous because he's as tall as he is and it really doesn't matter. You saw him, you liked him, you guys connect and you decided to date him. I think, you know, she wants him to kind of, own up that he like stretched it up or I think the bigger picture is that the friend felt the need to like call it out and make a thing of it when she's and then making it sort of about her where it's like I am okay with my boyfriend not being that tall. I've like come to terms with it but perhaps you haven't come to terms of right which she obviously hasn't so maybe she's onto something

like I do think it bothers her to kind of have that as a fact about her boyfriend. Right. Maybe she feels more pride in having a taller boyfriend. And so that's sort of like a... And I mean, the fact that she again wanted them to get against the wall, I think does show that maybe like this is a little bit... It's less about the height and more about what the height says about her in some ways or something like that. Or this identity that she has of like, I've always liked tall guys. Like that's... So in order, if she was going to marry this person and he wasn't quote unquote a tall guy,

is she going against her type? Is that going to be something that's okay with her if she's identified as someone who likes tall guys but she's married to a not tall guy? What does that mean? So maybe there's a deeper thing here of like if this person could be a match for her if he is her type or he's not her type.

But yeah, I think it's the issue is more. I can understand to an extent that being triggered about like the idea that you feel so confident in something and someone else is sort of like you read this like completely wrong and now then you're also sort of like faced with your own insecurities about this thing and that's really what it's showing it's really showing her insecurities about who she's with right honestly the question is funny and it's like really like we're saying kind of ridiculous because she likes him she's with him she's it's fine until this thing comes up. But the kind of the idea of like what does it, and this is for a lot of people and this whole like

tall guy thing is I think a manifestation of like what does it mean about me if I can date a guy who is this way or that way. And this happens a ton the reverse or like just the, you know, the image of my partner and how that reflects upon me. So I think that there's a bunch of this going on like if I have a super successful partner or a super good looking partner or a really whatever it is about the image that your partner projects and how you're allowing that to affect your own sense of self. I think that plays in here. And that's something for a lot of people to give some serious thought to, you know, because it's like you're with this person. They don't need to be a reflection of how good you are because you're.

were able to snag this type of specimen. Yeah, no, I agree. I think there's a lot of, I mean, there's people have that and I think that people judge themselves based on their own capabilities in all of those areas. I recently had a doctor's visit where someone told, where the nurse was trying to tell me that I was 5-5. And I've always thought of myself as 5-8. So I was just, and then I found myself like arguing with her when I'm kind of like,

I'm the same, like, regardless of whatever she puts down. I'm the same height. But then I was like, I can sort of understand the triggering nature of it just because I was like irritated with her because I was like, no one else has measured me at that height.

Right. You just keep trying to like tell me that that's my height and I know that's not my height. But she's like, I'm looking like, you know what I mean when you're like against the wall? She's seeing it. You're not seeing it. Yeah.

And it doesn't, that's a thing. It doesn't, especially with something like height where it's like not really moving or right. It's almost different than like weight where it's like, let me take off my shoes. Right. Like with height, it's like I am the height that I am. Totally.

And I don't know why it bothered me that she didn't see that. So how did it turn out? Was she like fine, crazy woman and I'll put whatever you want? No, she kept, she was like sticking to her measurements. And I was like, all right, it's fine. I mean, I got over it like two minutes later. Right. But I was still kind of like, I feel like I'm being gaslit by this woman about my own.

Right. No, I could totally see that. And I think there are these things. And I do this in my groups a lot where, you know, sometimes we'll talk about like what makes up our ego. What makes up our image of ourselves. Like, okay, this is my name. This is my ethnicity. This is what I'm good at. This is how tall I am. This is my body shape. These are my skills. These are, you know, whatever it is. And if we can let go of that, sometimes it'll help us be less like clinging to these. types, exact types of things where it's like the image of yourself. And then also like this listener saying the image of my partner. Like I always think about middle school and how it was almost like if you said that you thought someone was attractive that like wasn't collectively like a hundred percent attractive. It was like as if you like ate a booger. You know, it was like. Yeah. It's a really good point. It's like, oh, really. you secretly thought was cute that wasn't on like the approved list.

Right. And then, you know, it's funny because I see this even more so with women, like all these beautiful girls that like in middle school, maybe they didn't wax their eyebrows or like whatever it was. They weren't like exactly the right or they weren't in the right crowd. And now I like see them on social media and I'm like, all you stupid boys, you didn't realize that like there were these gorgeous girls that just weren't in the cool crowd. and now they wouldn't even talk to you.

Like they wouldn't give you the time of day. They've like blossomed and like come out of this little bubble of like the approved list of girls that were like okay to say we're pretty. So I think it's like this image of like what does me being what this person mean about me and like it means nothing about you. You are you separate from this person. Yeah. I mean it's hard to take your ego out of or like what anyone else thinks out of most things.

Like everyone has, I think, some level of that. But if you can make that a little lower, I think that's the idea. Yeah. I think becoming aware of it is a great first step of like, why? What does this mean? Especially when it's something so ridiculous as this is like a measurement that nobody sees, nobody knows, and you walk around and you're as tall as you are and so is your boyfriend. Right.

Well, I have a feeling she's been telling a lot of people that he's 5'9. Yeah. But I guess it's a little triggering to just. here that someone disagrees with you about something that you've led as a fundamental truth. And as as I have just gone through that at the doctor, I can validate that's really that experience to an extent. Right. I would give this.

I would give it a six. Yeah. Even though I don't think it's like her friend's fault. Like I would do the same thing if I was her friend. Right. Yeah. I think I would maybe, I'd give it a little bit lower. I get it's kind of like her friend could have just let her live on.

thinking that her boyfriend was 5'9 and like it wouldn't have killed anybody. I think the triggering part is that the friend was almost doing it to make herself feel better. Right. My boyfriend's 5'7 and that's okay and so is yours. Like we both have boyfriends that are 5'7. Yeah, it's like don't loop me in with you. So like the part of the friend like trying to pull her into her like acceptance of this thing when she's perhaps like not there or doesn't think she needs.

to be pulled into that. I could see that part being triggering. But the rest of it, like, get over it. I'm sure he's amazing. And like, short guys are- line up against the wall. Right. Don't tell him. Yes. I agree. I give it, I give it like a 4.5. Okay. That's fair. Yeah. This is a, this is a you issue, I think, not a friend issue. Fair. All right, let's do one more. Okay. Hey, Trudan and Dr. Naomi, I look forward to oversharing every week. Thanks for the grade podcast. My last therapy session left me feeling very triggered and I'd appreciate your take on the situation. For background, my grandmother passed away and on the same day she died,

my husband picked a major fight with me about some longstanding frustrations he has with my family, among other things. The fight was super uncalled for and left me feeling alone in a time of grief and I spent my next therapy session processing that. Now, here's what triggered me. At the end of my session, my therapist asked if she could give me some advice. I said yes. And then she said, don't get pregnant right now. Time was up and I didn't really have a chance to unpack the statement. I'm not even trying to get pregnant yet, but the comment felt like a gut punch. I understand she found my husband's behavior to be shitty. It was. But it felt like she was making a massive judgment about my relationship, playing out scenarios in her head and giving me majorly unsolicited advice. Is it ever okay for a therapist

to give this kind of advice? I know she asked permission, but I wasn't expecting this. The more I think about it, the more angry I get. I need support as I grieve my grandmother, but instead I'm using energy being upset with my husband and my therapist. How triggered should I be? A grieving betch. All right. This is interesting. I mean, I think the most triggering part about this is that she said it like at the end of the session and just was like, okay, bye, like without leaving any room to discuss it. Yes. And I think the way that she said it was a little bit, look, I could see having that feeling of like, I don't think you need this extra stress on your plate right now. And it might not even be because the, like, you don't get pregnant because I think you guys might get divorced. It might just be like you're going through something. You're processing through it. You guys are having this struggle right now. Adding a baby into this or pregnancy into this might like be more unnecessary stress. It might be more unnecessary stress. It might. might not have you, like she interpreted this as like, your husband's terrible, don't have his baby kind of thing.

Right. Which it may. Which is kind of how I would interpret it, I think. Yeah. And maybe that's how she meant it, perhaps. And I do think there were other ways that she could have said that. And as I'm thinking about, I guess I do agree. Like, she didn't say I'm thinking of getting pregnant.

So like that was just out of the blue. I feel like therapists don't usually give random unsolicited advice like that. Right. That has like for no reason. Almost nothing to do even with what they're talking about. Right. Yeah, that might have been a moment that I don't know that she would do if she could go back and and do it again. But I think the bigger issue to focus on is like, why was that so triggering for you? And what are your doubts?

And is this something we're like, okay, we're going to figure this out. We're going to get through it. Like I, you know, I could see it being triggering the way it was delivered so abruptly at the end of session with no time to process it, but ultimately is your trigger. It's also kind of weird to me that like the therapist says the wrong thing at the wrong time. Her husband also says the wrong thing at the wrong time. Like, I could see why it would be especially triggering when she's coming to the therapist

to talk about how her husband handled her being in a vulnerable emotional state and use that as a time to reflect to say something that was about him, I guess, in her family. And then the therapist is sort of doing the exact same thing. Right. Totally. And I think that that would be a great thing for her to say at her next therapy session. So I think what happens a lot of times with people, especially if it's a newer therapist, is your therapist maybe does something or says something that you don't love and then you just stop going,

which I don't think that that's the best way to handle it because sometimes therapy is dealing with your issues about your therapist with your therapist. with your therapist can be very healing. And it can show you like how to have a problem with somebody, how to be offended by something somebody said or feel like they did something that, you know, therapists are human, we're just regular people.

And yeah, sometimes, you know, she might have said something that she would take back or wasn't the right thing or maybe she was not focused that day or her, she was distracted by something, whatever it was. And to see how that works where she brings it up with her and how does she

handle it, you know, and maybe she could own up to like, yeah, that was probably something that shouldn't have been brought up in that moment. But, you know, how do you feel about getting pregnant or bringing that up and she can bring up the triggers or exactly what you said? Bringing up, yeah, I came to you for something that I was struggling with and you kind of created a pile on just like my husband did. So that was extremely triggering. Like I would, sometimes these little moments where you're angry at your therapist, you have some kind of strong emotion towards your therapist, that's your moment. We're like, all right, there could be some really good growth here if I can bring myself

to have the confrontation where I tell my therapist that I didn't like the way that felt. Do your patients ever do that with you? Not often, but I almost wish they would more because then I think it really allows for a conversation between me and you about me and you. That's what intimacy is. That's what like connection is. Like I think it would help me, you know, help my patients feel more connected to me if they would bring up.

Yeah, you said this thing and didn't sit with me well or, you know, and that happens sometimes. Like some people do that. And I think it usually does end up bringing us closer together if that's what it is. And I will always say, like I do like to say to people in the beginning, I don't know what works for you and what doesn't work for you. Like, I don't know. Everyone's different in terms of what type of therapy they're looking for.

So I need you to be open with me and communicate with me about like what's working and what's not working instead of what a lot of people do. It's like, okay, if this isn't working, I'm just not going to come back, which, you know, it doesn't happen often. But I think that type of communication is exactly, like people think that they need to go to therapy and talk about the other people in their life, but sometimes the best therapy is like, I'm talking about me and you and not everybody else. And that's the best person to practice the confrontation with.

Totally. Because you're going to model kind of like how to handle confrontation, how to take ownership, how to listen, how to lean in, even when someone's like, you're having your own. It's not to say if someone says like, oh, you said this thing and it really hurt my feelings. Like, of course, that's not going to be like my, that's not going to feel great. You know, that's not going to feel like, oh, wow, I did make me feel like the most amazing therapist. I never want to hurt anyone's feelings or upset anyone.

But it's a great moment to like repair and connect with someone that I care about and that, like, I care about our relationship. I agree. She should say something. Yeah. See how the therapist responds. I'd give this like a six and a half, seven. Yeah.

I could see why this is triggering because of exactly what you said. You hit the now in the head with like. I'm coming here to you to feel better about that, and I'm getting like a pile on of something that I wasn't expecting to talk about. And at the end, when I didn't really have time to be upset about that. Timing is super important. It really is. Like as a therapist, you have to be mindful of the clock and how much time you have and how to kind of make sure you have enough time to process. It's one thing if the patient brings up something in the last minute or two minutes. There's nothing I'm not going to certainly go ahead and like stir up some kind of potential wound with like

10 seconds left in the session. What did you say that's called when the patient brings up something like super important at the very end? Oh yeah, door knob comment. Door knob, yeah. That's back when we used to do in-person therapy and the person would be like standing it. And I have people that would do that all the time like literally standing at the door, hand on the door type feeling and like, oh, by the way, I quit my job.

We'll talk about it next time. It's like, well, what? I guess it's something you don't really want to talk about. Right. Exactly. But you know you need to. So it's like that avoidance, which is fine because then we just obviously talk about it next time, talk about the avoidance next time, talk about the shame or whatever there is behind that next time.

But that's at least their decision. Yes. As opposed to this kind of thing where it's like yours. Right. Yeah. I could see why this is triggering also. I get it. Timing is important.

Well, good luck. Yeah. All right. We set them up. We knocked them down. We did it again. That's our time. Great work today.

Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Picoe, and Rebecca Salis McHaw. Editing by Basilio Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com. Or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294.