Oversharing - Signs You Need To Spice Things Up Vs Leave The Relationship

Episode Date: July 19, 2022

Naomi and Jordana respond to FAQs in their DMs with an in-depth conversation about getting into therapy. Jordana shares her personal experience with trying therapy for the first time in her 20’s, and makes some suggestions for how to get into it yourself. Pro-tip: your therapist should address it if you’re late. Naomi discusses the importance of chemistry between therapist and client, and provides insight about the importance of self-care as a therapist. Then Naomi and Jordana discuss their therapy guidelines—Is it okay for your friends or family to see the same therapist as you? What is and isn’t a conflict of interest? Next, they respond to a listener who worries she’s settling down too early with her long-term boyfriend. Anyone else love date night? Drawing from their personal lives, Naomi and Jordana share how they keep things exciting with their own partners. Then, the Betchicist email sparks a conversation about verbalizing boundaries in relationships and the definition of monogamy. Finally, the Triggered submissions include a discussion of how to react when someone makes a rude comment, sharing news of an engagement with an ex, and projecting insecurities onto a date. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Duran-Abram and I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. So good to be back with you. I know your birthday is coming up.

Yes. Tomorrow. I'm excited for you. Thank you. I'm taking the day off. I'm debating whether or not to still send the kids to camp and just enjoy a day to myself or to have like a big old family day. So that's to be determined.

To keep them for yourself. Yeah. I get lots of love on Mother's Day and my birthday. So that's something. Yeah. And then the rest of the year, nothing. Exactly. I always ask them, all I want for my birthday is for everybody to get along and be kind to each other.

And such a mom thing to say. it is but it's so true the bickering is is like deafening that's sweet so yeah they usually pull it together twice a year for me which is nice that's good so today i thought it would be interesting to talk about because i feel like i've gotten some dms and we get occasional emails about like what is the best way to find your own therapist because i think there is you know a lot of people think i think most people aren't like seeing or finding a therapist isn't like a one day thing like in the morning I decided I need therapy and then by the afternoon I have an appointment with a therapist. Yeah.

I think it's like I'll share my own personal I think like journey into therapy. I went to therapy right after my 26th birthday. That was when I actually that was the second time I went to therapy. If I'm being honest. I went to therapy. I started going to therapy at like 24 but I didn't really like the therapist. And I don't know. And again, I don't want to be judgmental of any kinds or types of therapists, but I was on our mom's insurance.

And she took insurance. And I think she was a social worker, which there's something wrong with that. She was fine. But she took insurance, but she seemed like she had like a lot of patients and a lot going on. And I remember feeling she didn't really care that much or she wasn't fully understanding like me or I remember she had a policy that I found annoying where like I. I couldn't cancel on her, but she could cancel on me. And I just didn't really like, I felt it was unfair. Right. I could see that. Yeah.

Oh, I guess I'll back up because I feel like I'm going in a weird order. So I think I went the first time. It was really about this guy that I couldn't get over. Actually, both times were about that. And I think the second time was giving it a separate shot. But both times were about like issues with finding a relationship and a lot of anxiety about not being in a relationship and kind of feeling like I was doing something wrong or that I didn't, you know, there was something missing or something I wasn't getting that allowed other people my age or around me to be in relationships, but I couldn't figure out like how to do it. Right. And I remember feeling like a lot of anxiety about that. And then on top of that, there was this guy that I kept seeing and kept going back to even though he would like not, he never dated me. Right. Both times I think I found myself just doing the same thing. And over and over again and getting the same result and feeling really stressed out and frustrated

with myself that I kept doing it and not understanding how to get out of it. So that was what I think I, and that was obviously like a many months to years long situation that I identified and then finally led me to find someone again. I think the first time I didn't really have that great experience and then she kind of dumped me, I guess. Oh, wow. How'd that happen? Well, this was part of this. I didn't really like her that much. Anyway, and again, she had this policy where I had to give her like, I don't know, I don't remember the amount of time. Let's say 24 hours notice. But like she would frequently, she had kids and she would frequently cancel on me like hours before.

Okay. I thought it was like an unfair policy where I would get charged if I did anything late and she didn't. But that was like fine. Which is funny because it's weird to have like an issue with your therapist that you feel weird confronting them about while it's also going to them about trying to confront issues with other people. Do you know what I mean? Totally. Well, a good therapist is going to bring that into the room so you can, like, so she can force you to at least address that stuff, you know, head on.

Totally. And again, I wouldn't say dumped because it was a weird situation. One day I went to her, we had the whole session. And then at the end, she was like, oh, and by the way, like, I don't take your insurance anymore or I'm not taking your insurance anymore. And she goes, starting like two weeks ago, I'm not taking your insurance anymore. And I'm like, first of all, why wouldn't you tell me this? before the session.

Now I have to pay for this session out of pocket because you decided to tell me after it was over. Yes. I just thought it was not like a way that you would communicate in a healthy relationship. Completely. And so that was, I mean, because she wasn't taking my insurance, it already sort of ended it anyway. But it was funny because it almost felt like the end of a breakup or it's like, well, I don't like that you did that anyway. Yeah, it sounds like a bad breakup too.

Like it wasn't really done in the healthiest of ways. Did you express yourself in the session? Like I didn't do that because I think I had a lot of issues with like expressing my feelings and expressing my self, which you probably didn't help me that much with because I couldn't express that. Totally. Well, that's part. That's a big part of therapy. I think people don't realize.

It's like working your stuff out with your therapist, the little things about that. Like I don't think this policy is fair or, you know, because it creates a little bit of a disconnection or a little bit of a, the beauty of a great therapist patient relationship. is when you can have all those conversations like you would have with your friends or your significant other or your coworkers, but you're doing it with a person who's supposed to be like the epitome of healthy communication on the other side. So it should make it feel really, really safe. So you practice it in this especially safe environment with your therapist where you can say, oh, I wish you would have told me that. Like you can be your assertive self in the room.

And she's not going to be like, well, defensive. Well, you know, I didn't know. Or, you know, she's going to be like, okay, I can validate your feelings and model, you know, good communication skills. So I think that, you know, being able to bring those micro interpersonal conflicts into the room with your therapist sometimes can be really helpful. So the fact that you weren't able to do that, especially, and then that led to kind of like a quote unquote bad breakup with her wasn't the best experience. So how long did it take you before you found the right person? So then I think I was like, okay, I guess I'm like not doing therapy anymore. So I decided like that that sort of I took a break from it just thinking like, okay, this is done and I don't, I kind of just like decided not to focus on that again. And then on my 26th birthday, the same guy who I kept again going back and forth with sent me. I remember he sent me this text and it was we had been like hooking up all summer my birthdays in September.

We've been hooking up all summer. We texted all the time on my birthday. Like late in the day, he texts me all lowercase, happy birthday. No, no, not even an exclamation point. Just like, just a set hat. No discussion of hanging out. Nothing sweet. Nothing nice.

And I'm like, this is a ruder, this is like a colder, ruder text from, than I would get from like an automated dentist office birthday message. They might even include like a happy little cat dancing with a hat on or something. Exactly. And I've been sleeping with you all summer. And for years. And I think that was like, and I was also my birthday. So I was 26. And I was like, I keep doing this thing. The pattern was that he would withdraw whenever it was like becoming like a closer thing. And it was almost, it almost felt like it was a message of like, I'm not, it's not a thing like in that way. And I remember being like, I don't want to be 40. It's my 26th birthday. I'm 20. I already feel like frustrated and too old to be doing this. I don't want to wake up and be 40 or 45 and just be looking at the birthday text again and doing the same thing. And I need to,

I need to figure out a way to get out of this. And so this time, I think I was a little bit further in my career. I had, I wanted someone who was really good. And I knew that, again, I'm not saying that there aren't really good therapists that take insurance.

But I've known from, I think, speaking to a lot of people that the better therapists often didn't take. insurance. So the ones that gave you maybe like a little better insight or a little more dedication. Again, I'm not saying this is like the universal experience. This is just what I had heard from people. Right. And at this point, I also had, which is a really good tool for finding for therapy or for using for therapy. I had an HSA. Oh, great. Which is basically like tax free, deferred money that you can use for that. So even if someone didn't take insurance or was out of network, but you wanted to go to them, you could use money from this account to pay for it. So and I remember this time I kind of wanted to see, I decided I wanted to see a man. I think because, I don't know, I was dealing with a crisis with men. I have a lot of female friends. I have a lot of sisters. I mean, I have brothers too. But I was like, I think it would be interesting to like speak to someone with a different perspective. I don't know if that was like necessary or right, but I think I

looking back, I enjoyed it. And I went into his office after that. And then it was very, we had, I think I just felt like he, again, I think that I don't know if it was like a self-fulfill. thing, but I did feel like he had really good insights and that, you know, it was a different kind of experience and that experience lasted a lot longer. So that was my journey to therapy. Right. Yeah. Look, I think there's, it's like a chemistry thing sometimes, just like any connected close relationship. And yes, someone can offer you advice and techniques and all of those kind of things, but I do think there's a bit of just your personalities mesh or there, you know, like the same way you meet a person at a party and it's easy to talk to them or it's not, you know,

like the conversation kind of flows naturally or it feels like there's a lot of these awkward, uncomfortable pauses. And so that's part of it is just a chemistry thing. And then it's sort of like, what are you looking to get out of it? Right. And part of it, I think part of it was also the things that you said where it was like he would use things going on in the sessions to sort of get me to help facilitate me doing healthier relationship practices like communication and that kind of thing. There's something that feels different than just venting to a friend or, you know, talking to whomever, your aunt Sadie, when you're in the room with someone who's going to

kind of call you out and who's going to push the issue. shoes and address the elephants in the room. And I think some people do, and this is where it's a match thing. Some people do want a therapist that's going to be more of an, play more of an active role in the session, whether it's, you know, being more directive or just calling things out that you're saying and realizing that maybe you need to go a little deeper in a certain area, where if you, you know, even when I was trained, part of the training is if a, if there's a patient that consistently comes into the session five minutes late, you address that. You know, you have a conversation about like what's up with the five minutes late, you know, is there an

avoidance? Are you afraid of coming? Are you trying to cut the session short? It's not just like, okay, we ignore that and we accept that you're just going to be consistently five minutes late. or if they keep canceling appointments over and over again, then that's something that you address. It's not just like, okay, I'm charging you because you cancel. Now let's just move to the next appointment. It's like that's something that's worth bringing into the room the same way you would. If you're dating someone and they consistently show up late

and it's starting to become a pattern or they keep canceling dates or whatever it is. You have to sort of address these things. That's so funny. I remember him saying that because on my first session, I actually did show up 10 minutes late, but it was a lot because I was like, I couldn't find the office or I was like, you know what I was the first time there,

so I didn't really know where it was. But I did show up late and he did address it like as just like, again, part of like, I think it almost as an example for like us, like how this was going to go if we were going to be seeing each other like with communication or like policies and things like up front and just like talking about particular communication. I think it's also important.

And a difference I found, I might not have known this if I didn't find someone who I felt this way about. But I just felt that with him, that he just, like, he cared more. I don't know if that's, like, just a way, like a, some people have that in their nature or, again, like, it's more about a connection with you. But just the difference, it just felt like there was, like, more insight and more caring rather than, like, getting through the session. That makes sense. I could see that. And I think there is a difference. and part of it might just be burnout on the part of a psychologist or a social worker,

whoever it is, that's taking insurance. So they're getting this flow of patients coming in through the insurance company. And maybe they're taking on too much or they're taking on too many patients and they're a little burnt out or they're, you know, they have eight people on the schedule for the day. So they're not mindfully being with each person. So there might be something to that if you're seeing someone that is overloaded, perhaps maybe that's what was going on. Right. With the first person. But yeah, there's definitely that aspect. If you have to feel like that

person is listening to you. Your job is to listen to every word that comes out of that person's mouth. So like, you know, sometimes even personally, like we have three kids and, you know, there's a lot of sleepless nights in the beginning with babies. And I was always very clear with Jeff. And if I had a night where I was up and I had patients the next day, day, like I needed self-care. I need to make sure that like if I needed to take an app before I started sessions, like I needed to be fresh. I need to be able to listen. I need to be very present because there's nothing worse than I went to a therapist once that was like falling asleep in the session. And he said something after like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm on medication or something. I'm like,

well, then you should cancel the session. Take the day off. Right. Exactly. So I've been on the other side of that. Also, you know, this was many, many years ago. That's the whole. That's the whole. whole point is to like be engaged and you know be able to to do that so I think that that's a really important thing and then in terms of like how to find them I think both both of them I found through doc doc which I think is a very good tool you also get a lot of like people review people on there so I think that was nice to be able to like read reviews and read the things people liked about them and even the things people didn't like about them because sometimes the things that people don't like about people or not things that are important to you.

Right. Yeah, reviews are great. There's not enough therapist reviews, I think, because some people don't want to put it out there. There's still maybe a little stigma left there. But that would be great because even just, like you said, even if it's a negative review, it might not be something that would be bothersome to you, you know? Exactly.

So if you can, especially, I think a lot of the times when you do read reviews, you can tell which people are just sort of like a little unhinged versus actually writing. A thoughtful review. So I think Zoc Doc is a really good tool for that. And then recommendations, and I thought this was an interesting conversation to have with you because you are a therapist where I've referred my therapist to a bunch of my friends and other people that I know. And I know some therapists will not see you if they're seeing your friend or if they're seeing your sibling or if they're seeing someone you know just as a line. I think other therapists have less of an issue with that. I don't know.

Is that like a clinical guideline or is that? that just a personal choice? Yeah, well, I think there's, you know, there is a clinical guideline in terms of dual relationship. So it is very hard if you find yourself stuck in the middle of two people that are having issues about each other and you're seeing both of those people at the same time. That is a very sticky situation that therapists really want to avoid because it just, it's uncomfortable and you, you know, you know things, but you're a human, but you can't say things and you have to maintain confidentiality while holding information in your head. So that is something I think every therapist probably wants to avoid, but you never know

when that's going to happen. And I think everyone has, like you said, their own threshold for where that dual relationship lies. For me, if I ever get a recommendation for somebody that's a friend or even a relative, perhaps, I would probably try to steer clear of that. But I would do an evaluation and say, like, what are the issues? what are the presenting issues here? And if they have anything to do with that person,

then that's a definite no. But if it's like, okay, this is my friend, you know, from 15 years ago and we talk every once in a while and we live in different states, okay,

maybe that's something that is, you know, not going to be a conflict of interest. Yeah. You have to find out how much shit they're going to talk about the person that referred them. Yes.

And so on, which I mean, you would imagine that if you're like referring someone, I guess, again, don't know how relationships evolve, but you had a, I would imagine if I, I wouldn't ask the ex-boyfriend therapist, a therapist, right? Totally. You know what I mean? Like, I do think, usually it's not about that person and I know my therapist will see people who are friends because you see some of my

friends. Right. Which I take as a compliment. It's like someone complimenting my like, like, who does your hair? Totally. I'm like, my mental health must be so great that everyone wants to know. Right. That's really funny. That's true. I never really thought. of it that way. Because you wouldn't go to someone who you were like, you're a disaster. Like, I don't want to see them. Yeah, totally. I never really thought about it like that. But it's true. Like you said, relationships evolve and things change. So it is still sticky. You know, I think in my mind, if there's any chance that there's going to be a connection there, it's something that I would try to avoid. But yeah, recommendations are great. If the therapist,

you know, evaluates the situation and feels like it's comfortable, that's great. Because you're friends with someone, you might connect with a similar type of therapist. Right. And then I do say that people should, and I do this all the time. You know, if somebody contacts me and they want therapy, you know, a lot of people will say, can we schedule a phone call to see if we're the right match? And I'm very open to doing that, you know, to getting on the phone, you know, for 10, 15 minutes and saying, okay, what's going on?

And I give them my take on it. And they tell me what's going on for them. and then we kind of can feel out within those 10, 15 minutes if it feels like a good match. Like you said, it's time consuming, right? It would be great if you could just do six clicks and get an appointment and show up. And you can do that too, but then you're probably going to have to pay for the session. If it's not the right match for you, it's a whole hour out of your time and you've paid for a session with someone that you're not going to continue it.

So I would recommend doing like these little mini consultations and just kind of meet and greet type thing and see how that goes. A lot of therapists will do like, okay, I remember with, again, with the therapist that I wound up seeing and really liking and seeing for many years. When I did make the appointment be a Zoc doc, he called me and he was like, tell me about like your general issue. And then he was and then he was basically like, if you want to come in, we'll do a session. We'll talk like in more detail. And if you don't want to see me after that session, I won't charge you for the session. And but if you'd like to like continue the relationship, then like I will charge you for the session essentially.

Oh, wow. that's your current therapist is what who said that wow yeah that's nice of him i'll do 15 minutes but by phone yeah by phone yeah but a whole session i mean that's you know that's nice i guess it thinks of it like a consult or something like a true consult is totally but i don't know i mean or he's very confident in his ability to uh to have you come back right right right right but i think it's nice to get like the full information up front of like here's the rate here's you know the policies here's all the the things and like know all of that going in and then you can make a truly informed decision

about that. And then another thing that I think if a therapist does feel like it's a conflict of interest, a lot of the times they'll recommend someone that they think or if they, you know, they don't think if it's not a good match or something or they don't really do work with that kind of issue, I think a lot of the times they'll give you a good recommendation. I'm sure you have a few people you know who you think really highly of that you would refer. Yeah, totally. So, and that's true. So it's always nice your last resort, I think the last resort, which sometimes people end up

doing if you have insurance and you need to use it, it's just contacting your insurance company. And then they give you a list of doctors or, you know, therapists that accept your insurance. And you start calling them and then most of them will probably tell you that they're full and they're not taking new patients. Then you have to just go through the list until you find somebody. So if you have daytime availability,

that's usually beneficial or if you could squeeze in now that everyone's doing stuff over video chat, that's probably easier. But I think your last resort is getting a recommendation from your insurance company. If you can get a recommendation

from your friend's therapist, even if she or she can't see you themselves, that's definitely a good way to go versus just getting a bunch of phone numbers and kind of cold calling people. Because it can probably be really also really exhausting to like lay out your like deepest, darkest issue. Totally. On the 15 with five or six people as you're looking for a match.

So I think anything you can do to like find someone who can give you like a recommendation just based on the fact that they know you or you know someone you know and trust and whose opinion you trust is also I think a really helpful way to do it. Do you ever see, if you see couples, do you ever see one, like the individuals in the couple after or the other way around? So my personal, I don't know how other people do it, but my personal rule of thumb is I will see an individual, but I like to keep it even. So like if I see, I mean, it doesn't have to be exactly even, but like if I see one person

individually three times, then I like to see the other person individually like two or three or four times, like around the same amount of sessions to try to. keep it even between the couple. If at any point, and I have had this happen where the couple's issue turns into an individual issue, I make it very clear, like, the couple is going to have to be terminated as the patient and the individual is going to be the patient. And then I move forward with that individual, but kind of like in a, there's no going back type thing.

Because I, you know, I would go back to do like a session or two, but not with one person in the couple. No. Okay. Because then I'm getting one whole side of the story, like a influx of one side of the story and then trying to come back and, you know, treat the couple. I'm only human. So if I'm hearing 20 hours of one side and I'm only hearing one hour of the other side, that's tough to deal with. So I will usually refer that individual out. I love it when I see a couple and they're both in separate individual therapy. You know, that's really great because then we can deal with the couple issues. And then and they have a place to deal with their own individual issues and then come much more prepared for each couple session. Right.

You get the whole package. So basically, like, you have to be seeing both people or the couple or one and not the couple, right, essentially. Like, I'll do it a session or two, maybe three max, but I'm not going to do ongoing therapy with just one person and a couple. That seems like a good policy. I like that. It keeps things fair.

Yeah. I think part of why I was drawn to couples therapy is because as a child of divorce and all sorts of different, you know, interpersonal relationship dynamics, I've always, I think, out of a desire to keep peace in a house that sometimes didn't feel peaceful, I'm always very good at seeing both perspectives. I think I just have a natural ability for seeing both sides of an issue. So I'm pretty good at it. But if I was getting completely bombarded with one side, it's almost, I'm still human. It's almost, you know, it's pretty hard to really understand the other perspective and take that into account. Totally. And I mean, I have just in starting this podcast, I have a lot of friends who never, you know,

haven't really gotten to speak to you. And they're like, wow, like, she seems like great, such a great therapist. And I'm like, yeah, it's because she's like, you're like the least judgmental person I've ever met. Somehow. I don't really know how you do it. But I do get a lot of my friends being like, she seems, I want her to be my therapist. She seems like such a great therapist. And I'm like, well, we're a little too close for that. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I couldn't see someone that's like a super close friend of yours that

you're hanging out with all the time. Conflict of interest. But although I'm sure they would only have great things to say about me. But. True. Looking for a therapist, I would definitely one, one just practical tip. And this is what I do when I'm leading when people are reaching out to me is. And sometimes it, I hope it's not off-putting, but it's just, you know, it's just the practical way to do it is I make sure the logistics are going to work out first because I don't want someone to get on. And like you said, have to have a 15-minute phone call where they're talking about all their issues. And then we realize that like, I don't take their insurance or we can't schedule an appointment at the right time. Our schedules don't match up or the, you know, they can't afford the sessions or whatever it is.

So I would get all the logistics lined up, like an appointment that works out for everybody and the finances work out for everybody. And then you can do your check-in because otherwise that can get pretty exhausting. And I've had that happen. So I learn my lesson. Right. Yeah. I'm sure you have that happen enough times where the policy is because it's to save everyone's time.

And I think people appreciate that. Like, again, I think that was my issue with my first therapist was that one, I didn't like or agree with the policies. And two, that it just didn't feel. feel like the communication. I was getting the full communication of everything there. But I think this was helpful. If anyone has any other questions, feel free to email them or wants us to expand on a certain part of this discussion. We can get into a little more detail. I know we have like an email about transference and a bunch of other things that happen at therapy that are really interesting.

We can get to that in a later episode. And again, email oversharing at betches.com. Oversharing at betches.com. if you have a question you want to submit or a comment and or you can leave us a voicemail at 646363-66-6294. Should we get into today's email? Yeah, let's do it. You want me to read it? Sure. Hi, Jordana and Dr.

Naomi, I'm loving the podcast so far and already learning so much from your advice. My question for you both is, how do I get over feelings of FOMO when it comes to my relationship? For contacts, I've been with my boyfriend for nearly five years. We met when I was 21, him being a few years older. For the past five years, I feel like we have both grown together as people and have grown to be extremely alike in the process. Although we have our differences, we overall see the world similarly and have the same values, morals, and goals for the future.

I've even found myself thinking, my relationship is so solid and I'm so lucky to have found my partner so early on in life. I'm constantly thinking of how much I love him and how that love grows every day. We have even discussed marriage plenty and have anticipated an engagement would happen in the upcoming year. A few months ago, a new co-worker joined our office and I can tell he's interested in me. Our banter is flirtatious, but he's aware that I have a boyfriend and we have not crossed any boundaries. Still, I cannot help but enjoy the flirty banter as it makes me feel desirable and fun. I genuinely do not have any interest in this person in a romantic sense, but I cannot help

but get excited chatting with him. This makes me question the extreme. confidence I have had in my current relationship and makes me feel like maybe I'd actually miss the fun of dating and flirty banter in my early 20s due to my early commitment to my partner. Is there something wrong that I suddenly have these regrets? I love my boyfriend and feel like we could spend our lives together, but I sometimes feel that things have gotten monotonous in our routine, which may be leading to these feelings. Recently, I've switched jobs, which means I'm home on my partner's schedule and we see each other much more frequently. Prior to this, my job took me away from our home for a few days at a time,

and we ended up missing each other on a regular basis. Now we spend much more time together, but our time together is not quote unquote quality time, but more so tasks such as walking our dog, making dinner, and cleaning up before bedtime. This monotony is further aggravated by the fact that this year we're not taking a long vacation in the summer due to life circumstances. Feeling the sense of staleness, it makes it thrilling to have someone to banter with, at work, whereas the early relationship courting is gone in my relationship. Are these normal feelings of cold feet? Did I miss out on all the fun of dating years ago? Is the grass always greener? Thanks for your help. Not even engaged yet jitters. So many existential questions here. I like the

end. Yeah, I think, you know what I mean? I think this, this is probably a lot more common than a lot of people will admit. Yes. In their relationships, especially when you've, you know, you've been with someone for a really long time or you've been with them since college or something like that. And I think it can feel really confusing because you're like, there's nothing wrong with my relationship. I love this person. It's going well. But, you know, like, does it mean something bigger to be excited about something new or someone new or someone that's not my partner? So I appreciate this email because I think that that's a hard thing to admit. And you definitely wouldn't be like telling many people about that.

Totally. So what do you think? Do you get this a lot for people who have been in those kinds of relationships? I think this, her attraction, or she didn't even use the word attraction, but her excitement by this new person is definitely a symptom of something that she needs to discuss. It doesn't mean at all that this isn't, that she should not be with her boyfriend or that there's something that's irreparable in the relationship or that she needs to go be single and flirt and do all that, but I do think it's, it's a symptom that she needs to pay attention

to and a sign that maybe she needs to be honest with herself about what's going on in her relationship. And more importantly, not more importantly, but equally as important, honest with her partner. So that's what jumped out to me here is that being in a relationship where you meet young and you haven't had a lot of other sexual or romantic experiences is a challenge that needs to be, accepted and explored and discussed in the relationship, just like a long distance is a challenge, or an age difference is a challenge, or, you know, different cultures is a challenge. This is a challenge. You know, she hasn't had a lot of other experiences, and it's something that I think they need to be able to speak really honestly and openly about to the point where I think, you know,

she can start with bringing up the monotony and bringing up, you know, all we kind of do is cook and clean and take out the dog and we need to find something to have more fun here. But even at some point saying, like, I'm enjoying this flirty banter. That's going to be a really hard conversation to have. I think she should tell him. Maybe not off the bat. I would address the relationship piece first, like the stuff that she says in the second half of the email where things have gotten monotonous and, you know, they're not courting

each other anymore. Like, I'm a huge fan. and Jeff and I still do this every single week. And if we don't, it's like a sad week. But we have a date night every single week. So I think that's something, that's just one quick fix that when you're, especially before you have kids to make a point to spend time outside of, if possible, if you have the financial means and you can do it, even if it's pizza or walk on the boardwalk or wherever,

spend time outside of the house where you get dressed up and you make a date. and you spend time where you're not doing anything but being with each other. So I would address that part first, but if she still is feeling this excitement about something else after she takes the signal to work on her relationship from this external alarm bell that's going off for her, then if it's still there, then I think she's going to need to bring it up.

But I think the first step I would say is to address the second half of the email, which is the monotony that's going on. Right. Because it's, I mean, especially if I'm sure this happens even more in like post COVID or post like a change and work from home. You know, it used to be you'd go out every morning, both people or say goodbye, kiss goodbye, leave, right, get dressed for work. Like you kind of look nice because you're getting dressed and you're leaving looking nice and exactly. And you're not just there all day was because and I can also feel I think when you both do work from home, especially if you don't have any kids that you're kind of like, we. see each other all day. Why do we need to like go out and do a separate thing when we're to,

it's like it feels like you're, you know, you're washing water. It's like we're already wet. Like, why are we? Right. Do you know what I mean? Like we're going to leave to spend more time together, but we spend all day together. And I can see it. I, having especially been in that, why it can feel like unnecessary, especially if you don't have any kids and you do live together where it's not like, oh, we're both distracted by all this other stuff going on. It's like, yeah, we see each other all day. Right. But I do think having done it and having like done the, you know, those date night things

or the quality times or the trips that you're taking, it does. It's different because it's not time in between the other things you're doing. It's time that you're doing. Yes. Just for you. And I also think it's kind of nice in her scenario, again, no kids yet and just kind of like, it is nice to have some time separate from the other person. Yes.

That's not if you can do that. If you can manage to do that, if you can, you know, create your own separate lives, your own separate space. Because one that gives you more to talk about. Totally. And two, it allows you to like have a, I think one thing that keeps things like sexy and fun and exciting is a little bit of mystery. Like she said, I used to go away for a few days at a time and I'd come back.

You'd be like excited to see someone. You'd have like, what are they doing now? I don't even know what they're doing now. Like that's like a little bit exciting. And I think the idea. of knowing every single thing that someone's doing at all moments is really a lot of the time what takes away that feeling of like desire that she's talking about. And any and I think the thing for her to realize is that let's say she did go off into the sunset with this coworker,

eventually things would become exactly that too. Like yeah, like all relationships are work. There's no relationship that's healthy, I think, that has no effort or work put into it and a certain point that doesn't have its lulls of like monotony if it's stable. So, you know, that's like, that's sort of a part of life. And I think these little moments where you feel is this cold feed or, you know, you're getting excited by something else outside of the relationship. That's just an opportunity not to end the relationship or run from the relationship, but to say this relationship needs a little bit of like food and water. It needs a little attention, needs a little loving care. It needs a little injection of something.

And it is so easy to get comfortable, especially like I said with people, like you said, I'm sorry, people working from home. Like I have a lot of patients, couples that there's issues that arise from the fact that they're just, you know, constantly interacting with each other all day long. And if you're angry or irritable or in a mood about something, this isn't really this particular issue, but it could feel on the worst case, like that person's just always there to kind of be on the receiving end of you huffing through the kitchen while you go in to get a glass of water and then they didn't clean out their dish. So now you're like ganoid or, you know, just there's so many opportunities to project your own stuff onto somebody when you're around them all day. Right. They're not getting

your like sexy date night attitude. They're getting your right middle of the workday. Someone sent you an irritating email. Yes. But it's funny because I do, it's you said like it needs a little watering. it needs a little like care because I guess I just suggested like going out and doing it like leaving like or doing your own thing. I agree. Maybe I skipped over that. I agree with that. I do. And that's why I think like if you can have separate work spaces like one person maybe can do even if it's really becoming a problem do like one of these we work type office rental things or ask your company if they can give you something like that because I do think saying goodbye and leaving and doing your own thing. A lot of people have optional like you have. You have.

have the option to go into an office even if you choose, you know. Right. I would take that. I agree. I think it is good to take that option sometimes if you're both working from home. I know it's kind of annoying, but it also, it's good for you to get dressed and go out into the world and be around other people and be in the environment with other people that are doing the same things that you are. And I think it is good for the relationship. So I'm not saying, if I inject it, I do agree that some space and having your own life is part of it. The injection means like more than just okay the time especially if it's not quality time right and I think a lot of people what happens after being together myself sometimes included is you go out to dinner

after being together all day and you're kind of like I don't really know what we have to talk about like we kind of right been talking about it all day do you know what I mean right right right and I think going out and doing your own thing and having your own experiences that are separate from the relationship whether that's dinner with your friends and catching up on their lives or an interesting, like you said, work project outside of the office or seeing other people, kind of gives you that sense of like, I have this life that I'm now sharing with you instead of just having one. We have a unit experience.

Right. And then we're both talking about what we already know just happened. Right. Exactly. Where you can like bring some interesting things into the conversation, which again gives you more sense of like, oh, I don't know every single thing that there is to know about you all the time. Right.

And I think that you can also do the same thing just by virtue of not necessarily communicating a million times throughout the day. Like I think some couples will like over text or just like be talking about every single thing as it's happening throughout their day versus like, let's just save it. You know, we can talk once in the morning or whatever and then let's save it up. And that way when we're together, we can actually discuss this stuff in person instead of constantly.

texting throughout the day or having multiple phone calls for people that do that. I agree with that. I think we help this person. I hope so too. Talk to him about it. Bring it up. Inject the relationship. And I have a feeling this flirty banter will feel not so necessary or it won't be as exciting

if you can up the excitement factor at home. You can make it sound really fun. You can be like, I'd love the idea of doing like a weekly date night. Like I'll plan the first one. Then you can plan the second one. It'll be like fun. We'll get to. Right.

And if dinner, if sitting at dinner and having conversation doesn't feel like that's where you guys are at, then do something fun. Go rock climbing or go to a concert. Yeah, go to a concert. Exactly. Just having fun together. A comedy show is always a really good time, I think.

Yeah. And then you can discuss who was and wasn't funny. Right. All right. Let's do the Betchaist ethical email. I will read it. Hello, ladies, loving the podcast and finding your input super valuable. Here is my story.

I have been living. in my apartment for about 10 months and gotten to know one of my doorman quite well. He is about 25 years older than me. I'm 29 and a bit of an overshare himself, but overall a nice and friendly guy. We're both social talking to people and will frequently discuss baseball or hobbies, building drama, his failing love life, and a myriad of other topics. Recently, we were having one of our deep-dive baseball conversations and he invited me to attend a future game with him. I politely blacked out of the conversation as I found the suggestion a bit inappropriate, it, but I didn't dwell on it. A week or so later, he repeated the suggestion, and again,

I backed out of the conversation. My boyfriend and I are in a long-distance relationship. I went out to visit him soon after these instances and mentioned the interactions with my doorman to gauge his thoughts on the situation. My boyfriend got very heated and said he wanted to call my building and report the incidents, especially as he had determined some of my dormant's previous comments regarding our relationship to also be inappropriate. I told my boyfriend this was an overreaction and asked him to withhold raising the alarm. In exchange for him backing down, he requested that I reach out to my girlfriends and gather their thoughts on whether the interactions were appropriate and how I should proceed. Initially, following my trip, I did not hold up my end of the bargain. I had determined that

the situation was trivial and I simply forgot. When it came up again with my boyfriend, he was angry that I hadn't followed through on my end of the bargain. So I did eventually ask a friend her thoughts. In summary, she agreed with me that my doorman was overreaching, but it wasn't a large enough breach to report, and she herself had dealt with far more severe breaches in her own building. When I relayed the feedback to my boyfriend, he got very upset and claimed I both wasn't taking the situation seriously enough and trying to instigate him. So I have a few questions to ask. Was the initial interaction with my doorman inappropriate? Is my boyfriend overreacting? How should I proceed with the conversation so that we can move on? Thanks for your wisdom. All right. What do you

think. I think the whole concept of him bargaining with her to take a poll with her friends, which was clearly designed for him to try to come out, proving himself to be right, is a bit ridiculous. It's like when people come into therapy and they want me to immediately take aside on who's right and who's wrong. And I think when they find out that I'm not doing that, it's like all the wind is out of their sales. Like, I was paying to come in here so you could tell me that I was right and she was wrong. We could stop having the spite so that I could be the victor. The victor. The victor, exactly. So that whole thing is a bit ridiculous. My take on this is if you are having long conversations with a single person repeatedly, there's an opening there for them to think that they might

want to ask you out on a date. And I don't think that that's, this isn't your therapist. This isn't your brother's best friend or something that might be off, you know, limits. This is, A person that knows you, even sounds like she's engaged in hours and hours of conversations, having one of our deep dive conversations. I don't think there was anything wrong with the doorman. I mean, I guess he knew she had a boyfriend, right?

He's probably never seen the boyfriend. I don't know what her conversations are about the boyfriend, but I don't think it was crazy for him to ask her to a game. I don't think that that was grounds for like being reported to the management. Right. It's not like it's out of, nowhere. Right. Like she walked in on her first day, moving in with moving boxes in her hand. And he's like, hey, can you want to go out. This is after what sounds like extensive conversation. So this leads me to,

we had a brief conversation about like the definitions of monogamy and kind of how people handle themselves in committed relationships. And having really long conversations with a single person of the opposite sex isn't opening. That's just what that is. intimate conversations. I could see that. Right. And to me, it's also like, if I were the boyfriend, and maybe this is sort of the case of like,

this seems like more of a symptom of an issue in their relationship than what it's actually about, whether the doormons being inappropriate or not. Like their fight about it seems more indicative that the boyfriend maybe feels like he doesn't trust her that she's there potentially or like that there's stuff going on that he doesn't know about. And that he, you know what I mean?

he wants her to be more angry and upset with it as a way to prove, like, her loyalty to him. And I could see if I were him thinking, you know, I had a long distance boyfriend and there was some woman who was talking to him who asked him to do something twice, it wouldn't be about what their position was. It wouldn't be about, like, where they worked or something like that. To me, my real issue would be like, it would make me feel a lot better and safer if they said, you know, I'm not going to go to the baseball game with you because I'm in a relationship. I just feel like that would be inappropriate.

Like, she didn't really say that. She just kind of like politely declined. But you can politely. Backed out of the conversation. Right. And you can polite, you can back out of a conversation while also giving a clear boundary in a nice and respectful way.

And I think his, I have a feeling if she told the boyfriend that she said that. And again, I think if he continued to ask her after that, that would be a larger breach. And that would be a larger, you know, crossing of boundaries,

especially who works there. And like she might feel uncomfortable if he kept doing it. But she hasn't even said, very clearly, and we're talking about communication, I can't do this because I have a boyfriend. I don't think it would be appropriate. Right. Yep, I agree with that. I think she needs to confront the issue.

That might make him feel better. But again, I think her and the boyfriend have to have a conversation about, like, what their expectations are for one another. I mean, just if she was telling him the full extent of the, you know, long, intimate conversations that they were having about his love life and, you know, whatever's going, you know, all this stuff.

The truth is when you're talking to someone, he's obviously attracted to her. He's single. She's engaging in long conversations with him. I think there is an area where she needs to figure out if just that is sending the wrong message, especially if she's not being very clear with, we're just friends. I'm not interested in dating you. I have a boyfriend. We can have these conversations.

all that it is. So she needs to be clear about that. Otherwise, I could see why he might think that this is an opening for something more than just chit chat in the lobby. Yeah. And I think she should discuss what's really going on with her boyfriend, like, in terms of like, the bigger issue is like, why do you feel they need to have these long intimate conversations with the doorman? Like, what do you feel like a loneliness? Do you feel like you're, because it just, it seems like an interesting person to have like long intimate conversations with. Right. I agree. So I think that, you know, couples don't often do a check-in. There's just sometimes an assumption that we're both on the same page in terms of what types of interactions are okay with the opposite sex or the same sex or whatever, depending on your sexual orientation. But what types of interactions are okay. And everybody has their different limits. I mean, I think, I don't know about you, but if you knew that Mike, he went into the office and he was having, you know, 45-minute conversations with the secretary at the desk every single day

about her love life, regardless of her asking him on a date, I don't know, would that be, would you be probably not be interested into that? Yeah. Right. Or even like things that are less like almost clear like that. We've had conversations where it's like, oh, if you're, if you go on a bachelor party, like, do I care if you talk to women at the bar because you're all out and you're speaking, do I care if you're speaking to women? Do I care if you're buying someone a drink? Is that bothering me? obviously you know what I mean like some people would care some people wouldn't care do I care if you go to a strip club what do you know what I mean like what is what is my I don't think there's a right or wrong answer there it's really just about like what is your plan and what is my comfortable with and where can we you know come to an agreement about what is and isn't appropriate because I don't think there's like to say this is wrong this is right is not reflective of two people's comfort levels or what they you know what they would find as a betrayal exactly and the biggest takeaway, I think, is you have to have those conversations to figure out the deeper issue

is him asking her to the baseball game. I think the deeper issue is how okay is the boyfriend with these long, you know, conversations. And it's easier for him to get mad at the doormand than it is for him to get mad at his girlfriend saying, like, why are you, why do you feel the need to keep having all of these intimate conversations with this single man in your building when you have friends and you have me and you have all these other people? But I think every. couple, I could write a list. I actually have, you know, a list that I've used with couples before that have dealt with these types of issues of all these gray area questions and sitting down and talking to them, talking about these issues with your partner. Like you said, is a strip club okay?

Is a lap dance? Is porn okay? Is porn okay? Exactly. Is, you know, flirting being someone's wingman okay? Is being another big one that comes up is like online interactions. right is liking a picture okay is liking a bikini picture okay it's okay it's okay to like following an instagram model okay right following but not liking okay yeah everyone has their own thresholds i think right i'm interested i'm gonna make a list and i'm gonna add i don't know if you'd feel comfortable but i'm curious what your perspectives are in terms of like what would you be so are you okay with following an instagram model oh we're doing this now uh it's funny well it's like following a million or following like a couple?

Like that's all you follow or? Yeah, I guess that's different. There's some people that like their whole all day long, their whole feed is just, okay, following like five Instagram models. Follow fine. Like, like no. Okay.

Liking no. And I mean, I used to love that there was a follow. There used to be like a following tab on Instagram where you could see what everyone was liking, which I liked because I'm a stalker. Right. Yeah, I would say there's, I say there's no reason for you to be liking any bikini pictures of anyone, any strangers that you don't know or anyone of the opposite sex.

Right. So even like a friend, a female friend bikini picture like not acceptable. Unless it looks particularly wholesome. If it's like a thirst, if it's like a picture with a bikini with your grandma, fine. If it's a thirst trap picture, you don't need. And also like, I'm not, you know what I mean? I'm a realist. I'm a person of this world. You can like it in your head. Right. You can see a woman on the street and think she looks beautiful or she's wearing a certain skirt or pants and you could look and like if you, you know what I mean? I'm not offended. I don't believe in policing thoughts. Right. You can think someone is attractive. I'm not offended by that. But you don't need to publicly let everyone know that you think someone. Right. What's the point? Right. You're walking down the street with your husband and, you know, there's someone who's beautiful passes you and they walk by and they notice it and that's fine. There's difference between that. And did you see how beautiful that woman was? Right. Right. Like to me, that's a very, the public and the like the confirmation of it is what makes it offensive to me. I agree. That's why any of this talk like the AI where they can take people's thoughts and they can turn them into electrical impulses and potentially like translate people's thoughts is so scary because the world would like implode if everybody knew what everybody else was thinking.

So yeah. What about, um, being friends. with an attractive ex-girlfriend? It would really depend on the reason, I think, for the breakup and the nature of the friendship now. An intimate friendship with an ex I would not be okay with. Right. If you are friendly, you know, you see each other and you have a conversation, you run to them

a party, you have a conversation, that's okay. Okay. No lunch, no dinner, no phone calls. Yeah, I would say. Friendly and civilness and like, you know, not hating someone is fine to me. but I don't think you need to have like one-on-one interactions. Right. Okay.

What about a platonic female friendship? That's fine. Alone, lunch, dinner. I think that's fine. Again, it depends how often, I would say, like, every week, that's a bit much. If it's like, you know, if you have an opposite sex coworker that you have lunch with once a month and you're both at the office, I don't, it's really like about the context, I think, in that scenario. Right. If you're going to dinner with them and not inviting me.

on like a weekend. I think that's weird. Right, right. Let's see. What else can I ask you? I like this game. What about a new female friend? Like that making a friend that is attractive,

that is a new person that he was not friends with prior. Made a new attractive friend. No. No new attractive friends. Right. That you see, again, friends like, we're in a large group and this is another person that's joined the group. Fine.

A one-on-one intimate friend. to me it's like about the more of that the one-on-one interactions and the frequency of those interactions right like a big group thing is not a problem yeah right to me all right let me give you one more what about um being a wingman like going out with your friends and approaching women for the sake of them trying to date that woman i'm fine with that i would do that for a friend right i think that would be like you can do that and i almost almost to tie it back to that first email I actually almost think that makes you more excited to see the person you're with a lot of the time. Do you know what I mean?

Like you're out there. You're having experiences. You're seeing what it's like to be single. It's usually not as fun as you think it is. And you know what I mean? As long as you're not doing that to be creepy. Right. Do you know what I mean?

Like if you're doing that to creep, that's one thing. If you're doing that to help a friend out and to be social, I think it's okay to be social and talk to people of the opposite sex. I don't think that's in a healthy relationship. I think you should be able to have a nice. normal conversation with someone else. Yeah. No, totally. So yeah, I think this begs for the two of these people to probably have a conversation about some of these boundaries, how long of a conversation, how many times a week is she having these conversations? We can give you a list of questions to ask. I think it's a good conversation to have. And it tells you a lot about, you know, what the other

person is comfortable with and what makes sense to you. And it just, I think like they're just interesting conversations to hear the reasoning behind them too. I think that's a good. great list, we should put that somewhere. And then so if my boyfriend were having long conversations with the waitress at a at a restaurant or something, frequently long intimate conversations or if she's the doorwoman, I think that would be inappropriate, depending on the consistency and the intimacy involved. Right.

So I think the question is, is the doorman inappropriate? I personally don't think the doorman was inappropriate. I think perhaps her not setting firm boundaries if she's going to have long conversations with this doorman is more what was inappropriate. I can agree with that. Should we play Triggered? Yeah, let's do a couple triggered scenarios. All right, you want to do the first one? Yeah.

I'm a 26-year-old woman and I paid my own tuition throughout both undergrad and law school. A few months ago, I was visiting my boyfriend's family for the third time. And at this point, they didn't know me very well or anything about my upbringing. as we were leaving, his parents noticed my new car, which I had bought the month prior. This is the first vehicle I've purchased myself and I'm very proud of it. As we got into the car, my boyfriend's mom complimented it and then proceeded to say, you've got to love daddy's money. I was incredibly insulted but didn't feel it appropriate to snap back.

I'd love to hear what you think. I think that's pretty rude comment. I would give it a seven or an eight. But if I were the girlfriend, I would almost just think it's something. like more like it's clearly more about the mom's insecurity that she's making that comment like she clearly feels like you or your family or someone she clearly feels insecure about the amount of money that she has so she's saying this to kind of like make herself feel better about that you have this car totally or even some insecurity about her son's you know financial situation or yeah but

I agree this is really rude and I could see why this would be very triggering for her I would agree with an eight and I wish she would have said would have been such a great opportunity for her to say, yeah, no, this is nothing to do with Daddy's money. I bought this myself and I'm very proud of it. Yeah, that wouldn't be a rude comment to say. I think you'd say, actually, you know, I bought this at myself. I saved up and I've been working for it and I'm really proud of it. You could say it in like a nice way. Yeah. I think too. Makes the other person feel worse if you're nice about it. It's so true. It's so true. But I think what happens is a lot of times when you are so triggered and like we always talk about physical activation when

you're like physically pent up and angry, there's nothing that's going to come out nice. So you just choose to not say anything. Yeah, that was really rude. And you know the truth that that's something you worked hard for. So you go, girl. Great. Okay. I recently got engaged.

Yay. And my fiance designed the wedding room himself. Also, yeah. The triggering part is that he asked his ex-girlfriend for advice and what she thought of the design before making it. Now, to put this into perspective, I have a sister and a mom who know me pretty well and several girlfriends that I'm close with too. In other words, there are people in my life that would know what I like in jewelry besides just me. Plus, I had a Pinterest board of rings that I liked and shared it with him a few months before the engagement. And we had talked about it quite a bit too.

Was it really necessary to ask his ex-girlfriend to give input? I've never even met her. How would she know what is right for me? Isn't the ring supposed to be a symbol of our love, not his exes? Yeah, I think this is almost, I could see why she was triggered, but I think this is almost his attempt at sending a message to the ex-girlfriend, like, I'm getting engaged. And I want to make that clear. And if you still want to be friends with me, you have to be kind of a part of this process. Like, you have to accept and be part of this process of me getting engaged. And our new friendship is going to entail me talking about my new wife and things for her. And so in some ways, I think this could be almost a good thing. But that being said, I could see why him involving her

in any way might be triggering. Right. I think there's ways to sort of to do that without having her being the one to design. I think that's like, to me, I would be like annoyed. Again, it's like, why would you take this person who's not me who used to be in the position that I'm in and ask them what they would want when like, we're the ones who are getting married. I think that would be, I would be triggered by that.

I think that would be like an eight or nine for me. Right. Okay. Well, look, I don't know that she was the final person. perspective on this. I think it's like he asked her what she thought, maybe just as like, here it is. I did it. I designed it. What do you think? Okay. That's right. That's one way to think. If that's the case, I agree, not a big deal. But if it's like he asked her what shape she should get and didn't ask her mom or her sister or anyone else.

Yeah. Yeah. Then that would be really annoying to me. Yeah. Right. I think it does depend on if she had like an actual effect on the final product or not. Because I don't. want, you wouldn't want her putting her stamp on your ring. But if it was just like, do you like it? And she said yes. That's different story. Right. And if she's the only one that he showed it to, that would also be annoying. Right. You didn't show it to my mom. You didn't show it to my sister or my friends. You just show it to. Yeah, I don't know. Exactly. I think all that, those little details matter. I don't know if she says it in here. She doesn't. We need to know more, girl. I don't. It really does. I think it matters. If it was just like, what do you think?

She said, oh, that's so pretty. I think that was him communicating to his ex. Here's the new status of our relationship. But if it was her actually putting a stamp on this, that would be really annoying, that she has to wear that ring that the girlfriend, ex-girlfriend had input on. Should we do one more? Let's do one more. I had a situation that definitely triggered me,

but I feel like maybe I don't deserve to be triggered by it. So now I'm curious for your take. Some background. I got divorced during the pandemic after my wife was treated for severe anorexia. She always wanted me to lose 10 pounds, too, to look like I did when we first met. Fast forward 18 months.

I meet someone long distance via Instagram who's gorgeous and makes me feel very attractive. After a couple of months of sexting and sending picks and videos to each other, we decided to meet and have a date. And if she felt comfortable, spend the rest of the weekend in my hotel in a nearby city with me.

Well, we did dinner in a movie and I immediately got a vibe that she wasn't feeling it, so I didn't make any moves beyond touching her arm back to see if she responded. The next morning she messages me to say she's glad we met but didn't feel a romantic connection so she won't be coming. I went out to some bars at night to relax, got a little tipsy and made the crucial mistake. I asked what in particular she didn't feel a connection about. She told me, quote, the physical part just didn't translate in person. I felt a friend

vibe, not anything you did or didn't do, just didn't see us being physical. I should have just kissed you so I could be sure. After having gotten to feel attractive and sexy for the first time in a very long time, this was pretty crushing. How triggered should I feel do I deserve to lose triggered points because I asked for it? To me, I could see being triggered by this. I can understand if he feels insecure about his body, why he might feel triggered by this. But I also think that he's projecting his own insecurities onto something that she said, which she didn't say, she didn't say, I don't find you physically attractive. She said it was when we physically got together, there wasn't that same connection, which I think happens pretty frequently with people who go on dates who haven't met in

person yet. It's not about the actual objective physical attractiveness of the person. It's more about like that chemical pheromone thing of like, do we just have a vibe that feels natural? Right. Totally. I agree. And I think her saying like, I should have kissed you to be sure is sort of like, well, there must have been some physical attraction there or that. wouldn't even been part of the equation. Yeah. I mean, to me, this guy is almost in his own. The issue was that he was probably in his own head more than anything that's actually

physically there. And if I were him, sounds like he got out of a sort of, like, upsetting divorce. I would work on your own relationship with your own body before going out again. Because to me, that's not about like changing your body, but just changing your relationship with how you feel about it. Because to me, that probably held him back from like, feeling confident and maybe going for it in a way that he felt, like, excited about because he was in his own head, which led there to be less of a physical connection.

We talked about this in a very early episode about like sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy of sabotaging your own self. Totally. I agree with that. I think he jumped from one relationship where he was made, you know, to not feel super attractive. It seems like that was probably a deep-seated issue in their relationship. and then try to heal that wound by trying to find somebody else immediately who is going to,

you know, fill that void. But I agree. You need to kind of get to a place yourself where you either, you know, choose to say, I want to work on myself physically or, you know, the alternative, accept yourself physically and be able to confidently present yourself whether or not you are 10 pounds heavier or 10 pounds lighter where you can just feel great about yourself and how you're presenting yourself no matter what. So I agree. with that. Obviously, I get why this was crushing and, you know, he was giving her a lot of power in that moment and that's what ended up happening. So I agree. You need to take the power back for yourself. But I don't think she said anything that bad. I don't think she said it. The actual

actor, the thing that she said to me wasn't like a terrible thing that she said. She just said, I didn't feel a physical connection. Right. Which look, I mean, I don't feel a physical connection is sort of code for I didn't find you that attractive, really, or it wasn't really that attracted to you, which is fine. You know, I mean, it's just this one woman wasn't that attracted to you, but I could see it being very disappointing. I'm sure they, you know, had some type of texting, I mean, photos or FaceTiming or something prior to meeting in person.

So it is very disappointing that. And maybe that does lead to what you're saying. Maybe if they did exchange photos or FaceTime, it's not really about, you know, the actual visual field. It's maybe is more about it. It's about more the confidence. Right. You're a lot more confident on the phone when you can pick, you know,

pick the angle of your picture and you, or you feel like you've sent it out. You know what I mean? You can think about what you're saying more. I think it's a lot harder to do that in person a lot of the time. It can be built up to feel even bigger than it is. And also, I actually have gone on many dates with people that I found objectively attractive

that I wasn't attracted to. A lot of the time it was a confidence thing where it was like there's, or it's a confidence thing or they're just like a chemical thing that just doesn't feel like where, you know what I mean? It's on or it's not. And it's not about like this person is objectively bad looking. Totally. No, I do agree with that. I could see why he read that text.

It's like, I'm not attracted to you. But I agree with you that it may have just been. And you're probably right. It probably was the way he was carrying himself because of his lack of confidence. I agree. So. Well, I think we did it. We did it. It helped a lot of people. If you guys have an email or a voicemail, send it in,

Oversharing at Betches.com, 646, 363, 6294. And we will see you next week. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Murales Pucco, and Rebecca Salis McHan. Editing by Missileo Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to Overshering at Betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363. 6294 Betches