Oversharing - The Importance Of Shedding Your Shame

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

This week, Dr. Naomi shares her recent run-in with the police and the feelings of shame that were activated from it. Our Oversharing comes from an engaged Betch who feels like her fiancé isn’t doing his fair share in their relationship. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener whose religious beliefs around extramarital sex keep interfering with her dating life. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for managing volatile emotions before they spill over into snapping at your loved ones. And we’re feeling triggered by post-Covid wedding jealousy, and miscommunications from strained sibling relationships.  If you’d like to get these episodes a day early and ad-free, plus two bonus episodes per month where we answer more emails and have follow-up conversations with listeners for real-time advice, make sure to subscribe at subscribe.betches.com! Follow us on IG @everythings.fine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And I am, I am tuning in from L.A. 7 a.m. here.

Wow. You look pretty fresh. Thank you. Well, I got my hair and makeup done yesterday for an event, so the hair is still there. The hair still looks good. So I had this really, I had like a triggering slash, I don't know if I feel like some shame around it or I'm triggered, but I'm going to share the story. Let's hear it. What happened over the weekend. Do you want me to rate it? Yeah, you can rate it. Okay. You can rate it for sure. So this weekend, I wasn't feeling 100%. I had like a little cold brewing. You might be able to hear it in my voice a little bit.

But I was well enough. I wanted to get up and get out. So I took the two dogs and the kids to this new park that they built in the neighborhood, which we were excited to try out. And you know, Brooks has his electric motorcycle that he loves. So I was like, we're going to go. We're going to, I'm going to let you ride your electric motorcycle, like on these new walking patterns. that they have in the neighborhood.

So we go. Meanwhile, like, just the backdrop is like, I'm kind of a disaster between going to Mexico, then I came to New York, got a little sick. So I pull up to the park. My car is like a disaster. It's like covered in snow from like snow remnant from like three weeks ago.

I get the dogs out of the car. They're kind of like wrestling to get everybody. Finally, we get out. we get onto the trail. And there's this big field that we find to the side of the trail. And I'm like, oh, this is so cool. Anyone that has dogs know, there's no pleasure greater than like letting your dogs run. So there's like nobody on this field.

So I say to Maddie, I'm like, you can let the dogs go. Like, go ahead. So Brooks is riding his little bike on the path. And she's... The dogs don't run away, I assume. Well, the dogs do run away. So the, sorry. So, spoiler alert.

Yeah, spoiler alert. So I figure like, okay, they're just going to run around like this. It's a huge field. Like it's probably like, I don't know, three or four football fields. Like it's a huge field. So when you let the dogs go usually, do they, what do they do? They will come back, but they like to, they never get to like run as fast as they can. Right.

free. Okay. So it's really fun to watch them do it. Long story short, they're running. They run like really far away and they end up jumping in this like fountain lake thing that's in the middle of this park. And I don't know what's in there. It's a brand new park. Whatever. They're all like muddy and dirty and gross. We finally get them back and then Brooks is making his way with his electric motorcycle onto the field and he's like riding around. the field, which I'm kind of like, okay, that's cool. Like, ride your motorcycle around the field, not really thinking anything of it. Finally, we get the dogs. They're all disgusting. This is a kid's motorcycle, right? Like just to, yeah, it's like a tiny little, it's called it an e-bike. Yes, it's an e-bike. It's like an electric battery charged bike, basically. Sounds a lot more appropriate. It's not a motorcycle. But he gets mad when I call it a scooter. We had this thing because I kept calling it. I'm like, you can ride your scooter at the park. He's like, it's not a scooter. It's a motorcycle. I'm like, okay. It's a motorcycle. Fine. So he's trained me well that I call it a motorcycle.

So I finally, I'm like, you know, sniffling. I'm not feeling great. I finally get the two dogs back. I, you know, me and Maddie are getting the dogs back to this car and this couple comes up to me, like walks like ingrily and like intently up to me. And they're like, is that your kid on the e-bock? And I was like, yeah, it is. Did he do something? And they go on about how these fields are new. It's a new park.

And they just planted the grass on the field and said there's several signs. Mind you, like, I don't know, like one by one foot little tiny signs that say field close. Okay. So I didn't listen to and or see the signs that the fields close. They're really angry that he's riding his. eback on these grass. So I was just like, oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize I'm going to get a ruin the grass or like, yeah, I guess kind of. I mean, I didn't realize it. And I probably, I get it, right? Like taxpayers pay, they plant this grass, whatever the thing is, we wanted to

grow for the community, probably shouldn't have done it. So this is where I'm like a little embarrassed that like I'm that person that's showing up. The dogs are like running in the fountain and my son's like destroying. Right. Here's like let the whole family loose on the communal park. Yes. Yes. Yes. So that's like the little bit of like the shameful part. So they come up to me. They're like and I very apologetic. I get him. We're leaving. So we get in the car and I'm trying to get him to get back in the car and he's like giving me an attitude. You said that I could ride my motorcycle and he's really pissed that we have to leave and uh he's not listening and he's starting to like get animated i'm getting him to the car and i'm like already frazzled and he starts like raising his

voice to me and um so i do this is my other shameful part so i'm like shedding my shame here for the listeners that we're all human so i take my finger and sometimes like i'll do like a shoulder poke I poke him. I poked him in the shoulder. And I was like, stop screaming at me, get in the car. Because that's like, at a certain point, like, I need a little physical something that's like going to snap him like, I'm in charge. To poke.

Okay. Yeah, one finger poke in the shoulder. Okay. Stop screaming at me, get in the car. And he starts, like, wailing, like, you know, oh, my shoulder. like putting on this like theatrical performance because I poked him in the shoulder. Like a poke? Right.

So there's no way he actually felt. No. He was just being dramatic. I mean how much it was one finger in the shoulder. Right. And so he starts like this theatrical dramatics about that I poked him in the shoulder. Because he was already, I think he was overtired. Maybe he was hungry, whatever it is.

So he's like emotional crying. And finally I get him into the car. and I get the two wet dogs in the car. And then I see a cop car pull up like perpendicular behind my car like blocking me so I can't get out. So I'm like looking through the rear view and I see like I remember on one side of my car it says clean me and then like please and then I beg of you. You know like when it's so dirty that someone can like write with their finger. clean me please I beg of you so I'm like okay I'm this disaster the dogs are running wild like I poke my kid in the shoulder you know it's like a chaotic scene and the cop car pulls up

behind me this like disastrous car and I'm like oh my gosh like he thinks that I like abusing my kid because I poked him and he's screaming so he was he coming for you he comp blocks me walks up to my window and basically was like the e-bike that those people called the actual cops. Oh my God. Bulletproof vest, gun, like not park security, like full-fledged cops. So I'm like, okay, as soon as they asked me to leave, I leave, they're still like calling the cops. So I told them that's so annoying. Tell me the thing. You should do one or the other.

Right? Like either quietly call the cops or say something. Pretend you had nothing to do with it or say something. And you sound like you kept going, right? No. Second, I was very apologetic. I'm so sorry. I didn't realize. I wasn't, you know, thinking about the grass. Really nice. And we immediately left. So the guy, I go through the whole thing with the guy. He's like on the e-bike. And I was the same thing. Very apologetic. I didn't realize. He's like, okay. I'm not going to give you a citation, but like someone else needs to come over here and have a chat with you. So then I'm thinking like, maybe this is the guy that's going to come over and talk about the shoulder poke. Right.

So they have one guy that's mad about the e-bike and one guy that's going to get me because I poked Brooks in the shoulder and he made like a theatrical performance about it. This is like a trip from hell. Right. This is like my worst mothering moment. like that happened to be caught by security.

Security guard. Anyway, long story short, the other guy comes over and he's just talking, it was a second talking to about the e-bike on the grass. Like they needed a second fully uniformed officer. Maybe they needed like a witness that they told you again? I don't know, whatever. No clue. So anyway, nothing happens. they actually did take my driver's license to like record.

Now you're in the system. Now I'm in the system. So and I was already like was I was like kind of mustering up the energy to like get out and get some fresh air with the kids, which I really didn't need to be doing. So that was that was the end of the story. I left. We went home. But I was like, like, I almost feel like it would be good.

Like maybe we could have a segment like shed your. shame. I like that. I did feel like a little shameful that I poked him, right? That was not, it's not like my ideal parenting moment. I felt a little shameful that I was that person at the park that was just like wildly taking over the park, what everyone else is just like nicely playing within the lines and the status of my car with like the writing all over it, like how dirty it was disgusting. Who wrote clean me? I'm confused. Maddie wrote clean me. And It was like a three days. She wrote clean me and then another one of them like three days later wrote,

please. And there's like a different one like, you know, four days after that that says, I beg of you. Right. Oh my God. Yeah. So the cops are probably like you are like they're probably putting together all of this information and thinking you're like a horrible citizen. Even though you're not.

Like the worst, you know what I mean? Like all the worst things that all bottled into one section here. Yes, like just a while, like a, you know, a suburban mom version of a hot mess is what it felt like. So, and just my nervous system was so activated with the whole thing that, yeah, I was annoyed that they called the cops. I thought that was excessive. I was embarrassed. So that was my Saturday afternoon. I validate that, I think that is triggering that they called the cops because, again, like, you're already relieving. They already left. Like the cops is just to, at that point, what?

Like to shame you, to arrest you, to throw you in jail? Like, you're like a mom. You're there with your, you're not like there like trying to mess things up seemingly. Right. seemingly on purpose. No. Like I would understand if they talk to you and then you kind of still were like, you just ignored them.

Well, they're like that really annoying thing. You know, Maddie's 11. She likes to call everybody a Karen. But this like was your quintessential Karen. where she like approached me, told me I immediately was so nice and like calm and agreed to, I was going to stop. And they kept walking down the path and they kept like doing that like half turn like to look back. I don't know if it was like, probably to describe you to the cops. Yeah, I don't know. Like they kept turning back and like looking at me. Oh gosh, I'm even like

activated telling the story. But no, that's very triggering. I will I will rate it highly. Okay, I appreciate that. I mean, having to deal with, and then also just sounds like the triggers amplified by the screaming kid and the dirty dogs and then like the car situation. So I think it just feels like the perfect storm, like in isolation. I still think it would be triggering. I think it would be like, I don't know, like a five, but I think this bumps it up to like six and a half. Thank you. It would be worse if they gave you a ticket.

A ticket. Gosh, that would have been really bad. No, he wasn't going to do that. I just thought it was excessive, like blocking my car, two cops. You know, after I was very kind. I just wasn't thinking about the grass. I just, it was an oversight. I wasn't thinking like this bike is, if I thought the bike is going to ruin the grass, I wouldn't have done it.

No, and I can see that. And I, I mean, I think we've all felt that way before. When we've done something, we didn't fully know, like, what we were doing was wrong. And then they get judged very intense. and harshly forward, or you get in trouble and you're like, that doesn't seem fair. I didn't really, I didn't really know. Yeah. Yes. And I do think, like, you know, I think the worst thing for me was that, you know, even like losing my temper or not being able to do the gentle parenting thing, right? Like a lot of people, there's like a lot of, you know, jokes around like the gentle parenting

where it's like a great technique. And I parent that way most of the time. But there are these moments where like you just don't have it in you or the time that it takes to do the gentle parenting thing. And so. Well, yeah, you needed to get it. Sort of it was in direct conflict with your first trigger, which is like you're on the grass. So you can either like gently and slowly get him off the grass. Right.

Or you can be like, all right. right we got to go yeah yeah so it was not my finest moment um but yeah we survived all's well that ends well well uh i validate that you'll have to show me yep take you two next time when i visit next month you take me to the park i'll look for that couple yeah yeah they just had and they were and it's i think just if you paint the picture they had like they're this perfectly you know groomed couple with their both little sweater vests and their like small baby, like blonde little cute baby and they were just so perfect. I was picturing them as older. Yeah, no, they were older actually. They were older but had a baby. Maybe it was their grandchild? Grandparents or older parents,

one or the other? Being from Texas, I would say maybe it was grandparents because people, some people tend to have kids here really young. Right. I feel like there's probably grandparents because of that and the fact that they wouldn't be like, I don't know, have like a parent understanding of like, I don't know, sometimes things are a little mess up. I don't know. Yeah.

Oh, I did get validated too because the guy that had a bunch of kids that was getting in the car next to us when he saw that, he saw the whole thing went down and he opened his window and he was like tattletails. So he had my back. Yeah, the cops seems excessive to me. Yeah. I totally agree.

All right. Well, validated. Definitely triggering. And yeah, no to the listeners. You can either yell at someone in person or call the cops. You can't do both. It's not nice. Yes. It would have been a nice human interaction. Hey, the fields are really, they're new. It's not great to ride the bike on there. Okay, sure. No problem. I hate to have to ruin the fun. But whatever. There's a nice way to say it and get you off. Yeah, and the last thing I'm going to say about this and then I'm really done is I picture myself like in their shoes. And I'm like, am I pushing 911? Am I really picking up my cell phone and dialing 911 because there's a seven-year-old riding his bike on grass? Yeah. You know, it makes me think not to take anything away from your experience, but it does make me think of a lot of like the police brutality stuff. I think obviously it's a very like annoying experience for you to have to deal with all that. There is something. I can totally see where, you know, if you were, you were black or if you were like a young teenage boy that maybe you wouldn't be given the benefit of here's, you know, we're not going to give you a citation or go on your way or maybe because you had your seven year old son there. And it is like, you know, that's very unfair.

It's crazy. Totally. Some reason I think about it, because you see all these stories and they seemingly start like something like this happens, right? But the cop doesn't get. Yeah, it was breaking the rules. It said no, don't, fields closed and I went on the field. Like a somewhat minor infraction that just goes way out of hand. So it's very interesting.

I think when you go through this, I've been pulled over before and I've had like sort of somewhat interactions and you're kind of like, would I be treated the same if I were different and probably a lot of the time answers no. But still, still annoying, still validate that. No, but that's a great perspective that like I took this and I turned it into this like really terrible, annoying thing that happened to me when actually it was an amazing thing that there were no consequences. I didn't get thrown in jail. I didn't get a ticket. Like nobody, it didn't turn into like a five cop car situation where yeah because that was profiled so I totally it's a great perspective I'm glad you brought it up which is interesting I think like when you think about

those kinds of things but I'm glad it's over you got you wash your car it's over I didn't get a car a little motivation to get I was shedding my shame in a physical form by washing that all off the car yeah but I like this segment right in let us know something shameful that you did. We won't judge. I mean, we'll judge a little bit and then we'll understand. No, I would love to be here to just like let everyone know. Like we all do. And this is the smallest one, obviously, because it's not anonymous. It's me. Everyone knows who I am. So I'm like shedding the shame on something that's like I was kind of a hot mess. And I poked my son in the shoulder. So those are my two shames that I'm shedding. But yeah, if you write in, we will try hard to

help you kind of like move past whatever this shame is. Because shame is like the root of a lot of mental health issues, you know, from substance abuse, eating disorders, depression, anxiety sometimes. So let us know. Shed your shame with us. Shed your shame. I love that because, you know, we all, we all do shameful things unless you're annoying and perfect. Let's get into our episode. Guys, we have subscription episodes from January out. There's going to be more coming this month, two bonus episodes and ad free. You get the episodes a day early if you're a subscriber. Go to subscribe.com.com. And Naomi, where can they find your therapy episodes? Groups, sorry. Yeah. You can go to Naomi Bernstein.com and fill out the shortest little forum. Let us know what you're interested in and we will match you up with the group. Or if you just want more information, come check it out. Naomi Bernstein.com. Love that. And our first overshare today is a voicemail. And if you have a voicemail, you can leave us one. You can call one in at 6463636.36.294. Or you can email oversharing at betches.com. Let's roll our overshare voicemail. Hi, Dorana and Dr. Danna and Dr. Dan, I've been a fan of you for years and all the things. The reason I'm calling you today is because of an issue that I have been dealing with. I recently bought a house in June with my fiancé, and since we've come into the house, we've never lived together before.

I'm just constantly feeling, like, exhausted, like I'm doing so much. I think you give you a little bit of backstory. My family have been together for five years. We got engaged with day we moved into the house, and... When we came in, I put the deposit out myself for the home, the home, and the agreement was he would pay the mortgage until he made up for what I put down in the deposit. So we're approaching that, but also I've been paying for all of the other bills and planning a wedding, and I've been paying for everything for the wedding, and I haven't asked for

any assistance and we got into an argument yesterday because I've just been asking for a little bit more help around the house because I take on all of like the cleaning past laundry and dishes and I just left the list for like to change out with something like called and it just got there for like two or three days until I like set something again and I was like hey like did you see the list like do you mind doing that and he was just like why do I have to do it? Why can't you do it? And that just completely set me off. And I just feel like I'm getting taken advantage of in the situation. He's saying the mortgage, so I don't know, he feels like he doesn't have to do anything else,

but like everything else that I'm paying for is at least the same amount of mortgage, if not more. And then he worked a lot over night. So then he's left after the argument to go to work. And I've just had this pit in my stomach all night long. I couldn't sleep. And we don't have a good communication style, I guess. Like, when something comes up, we will just, like, argue. And he's, like, he's, like, an army guy, so he, like, doesn't show emotion. And it's just, it's just very hard. And I'm just exhausted, and I could use a little bit of help. Thank you. Oh, her voice sounds very, very distressed. So, yeah. I'm so glad for her. She's dealing with this. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's like overwhelmed. You know, like I know a lot of people feel like this when it's like just everything's overwhelmed. And then you go to your partner to kind of help take some stuff off your plate. And then that ends up being something else that's added to your plate now on top of whatever you were upset about to begin with. Right. And now she's like, and we have a bad communication style. And like it all seems like it's.

coming down on her at once. Yeah, and a realization that, like, I can't even ask you now. Like, it feels like maybe it took her a lot to get to the point where she wrote him like a little honey-do list. And now that's making him angry. So she probably feels like now I can't even ask for help. Like, I just have to keep sucking this up, which you don't. Right. Yeah.

I mean, I think there's a lot of resentment that's clearly been built up for a bit here. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. I mean, I think that they just need to be able to have this conversation. The complicating factor here, which isn't lost on me, is that he does overnights. And I have a lot of couples where one of the partners does shift work or overnight work. And it really takes a toll on the marriage because it's almost like that person then comes home at whatever it is, like eight o'clock in the morning or seven o'clock in the morning. morning and then they need to sleep. So like during the day, they're sleeping. And then the other partner's kind of like, you're sleeping all day. And then you get up and then you want to like have your little relax time. And then you go back to work. So I do think that that is a factor in this. I'm not giving him a pass. Like he needs to figure out a way to help her out. But I do think that that does. And it's just not even doing that kind of shift work.

is not good for your mental health. It's like your circadian rhythms off. You're sleeping during the day or wake. Probably more irritable. At night. Yeah, more irritable. And just, you know, it's like, I think people who do that, if you, if they really get eight full hours of sleep, which most of them don't, you know, because like life is happening. So you go to bed at whatever time it is, like seven or, you know, seven in the morning, are you really going to sleep? till like, you know, three, four in the afternoon. I don't know, whatever it would be, oftentimes not. So he might be underslept. And that's why this communication is difficult. So I would do it at a time where I think communicating around this, the timing is going to be important, like a time when he's well rested.

You guys are calm and just laying this out as a big picture issue. Yeah, I think that's very good advice to address it. the first place. And I mean, it's just like they just, this is their first time living together and they have this house. So that's like, that seems like a tough way to do it because like just moving in with someone in general is kind of a an adjustment, like just getting to know their own actual habits, but then add to that like home ownership. So it's like we're immediately starting to have these like joint shared responsibilities on top of like figuring out how to live day to day with this person. So I do think that also adds another level to it.

Yeah. But yeah, I think she's like, I think there's like a lot of unspoken resentments here that she's been building. And there's part of me that's like, okay, there are certain times in a marriage or a relationship when one person needs to do more because the other person just isn't capable, it doesn't have the time. You know, you see this people with different work schedules or things like that. And like to think of each other as a team and like sometimes I take a little more sometimes you take a little more, right? But I think that only works if the other person, like, is appreciative or the other, it's like, it's kind of discussed.

I think when it's not discussed, it can just feel like no one's acknowledging that I'm carrying the load here. And that, that I think is when, like, the resentment starts to build. She also talks about money, which further complicates things. Yeah. I totally agree with that. I do think that this needs to. come out into the open. And even if they agree, like you said, that one person's doing more right now, the acknowledgement of that, I think, would be really nice, even if he doesn't do anything

differently. But if I had to guess, he's probably feeling when she points out that he's not doing stuff, that in his mind, he's interpreting that as like, you're lazy or you're not helping or you're not doing enough, which she is kind of saying you're not doing enough, but I think the delivery is really important. Because he's probably feeling clearly, it seems like feeling sensitive about how that's going. Yeah. And Liz's fantastic. But she shouldn't have to walk on eggshells in her own marriage either. Right. So it's some saying, I think that like it's a little tough in that I think that there's many things that are true here. The bottom line is that he should definitely do more. And like I do think it's annoying that she has to come up with this like, master plan for how to relay something that should be kind of obvious. Yes.

Yep. Right. But I would try this first. She's saying they're engaged, right? So this is a good test for their marriage. I would try this first. You're not married yet. And it is important that you guys know how to live together.

And it is important that you guys know how to communicate. And so no one's saying like, oh, break up with him. But I do think what you're saying is a good way to start. I think a list can sometimes come off a little. passive aggressive, especially when it's there. And they're like, did you see the list? I think a good way to start with this. And again, I'm not saying

justifying what he's saying is maybe again, you find the right time, like you said, maybe like after he's woken up, he's been up, he's been around for a few hours. You say, I'm feeling, start with just like making it in you terms. I'm feeling a little

overwhelmed. You know, just moved into the house, never had a house before. There's so much to do. And I'm feeling very stressed out about it. Totally. I like that. And you could say, is there anything that you think,

you know, you could do? These are the things that are on my list. Like, I have this, I actually have it right here on my desk. It's this couple's card game that is called the Fair Play Deck,

not sponsored. It's a cool. I think. Yeah. Maybe from you. I don't know. It's cool. It's like it just has all the things

that you could possibly, need to do to maintain a household with somebody on cards. And you basically go through the cards and kind of say like, okay, this is yours, this is mine, this one's maybe in the middle, this one doesn't apply to us, whatever the different things are. And it just,

I think more than anything, it's not necessarily, I have found when I use this with couples, the benefit isn't like necessarily divvying up tasks, although sometimes it is. But it's more like desensitizing, you both to the activation of the conversation about who's doing what. Because sometimes it's very loaded, you know, like if you're talking about what you're doing

and they're talking about what they're doing, like that can get really intense. Like it almost feels like you're, you know, one person's like, you know, trying to be the martyr and show all the things that they're doing. And then it makes the other person feel like they're not doing enough. But it's almost like, okay, I am doing a lot more. Right. Here are the cars. Like one person is doing a lot more.

Now what? Maybe appreciation for that is enough or maybe I do want you to take some off my plate. Let's just rip off the Band-Aid and have this really open conversation about all the things. And it's also intimate because it's kind of like the whole mental load thing. It feels really connected when your partner knows what your mental load is. Even if they're not necessarily helping with it, like you said, if they're super busy in their own life if they're kind of like, oh, how'd that go with the thing that you had to take care of? Like, I know you were going to do that today. How did it go? Like, it's just a way of showing, like,

I see you. I see what you're, what takes up space in your mind as you go through your day. And I'm going to just like acknowledge that you have a lot of stuff on your plate, whether I'm helping you or not. At the minimum. Yeah. I think it's like the acknowledgement and the validation of like that it's tough, that again, even if they can help, even if he's, like, let's say he doesn't have the time for it. I'm sure he has the time to do some stuff. I think it's the validation of, you do so much for this house.

Like, I know, like, you do a lot more than I do. And I really appreciate that. And that's not to say, again, that it always has to be equal. Like, I have that with Mike. He works much longer hours than I do. I can work from home a lot more than he can. So I can do a lot more stuff. And I don't mind it that it's unequal.

but I do, I do like to be, like, you know, have that acknowledged and appreciate. Right. And to me, that's like, that's enough. Maybe it's not for now or, you know, I mean, it is for now and maybe like I would need, and if I need something to be done more, then that's like, has to be communicated, kind of like you're saying. Right. And I, lastly, I do think that, you know, almost this old school thing of like, well, you work outside of,

the house more or you pay, you know, the mortgage or whatever and therefore I'm supposed to just do everything else, like in an unspoken arrangement, doesn't work well. So I do think both people, like even if you said to Mike sometimes, like, it's really incredible, like, that you just have this work ethic, that you wake up, you're on like a 7 a.m. train and you don't walk back in the door until 7.30 at night. And like I really, you know, like I admire your work ethic. Like that would be totally yeah that's that goes both ways too i think he maybe like needs it less than i do but yeah right i think it's it is you know because when i am craving that i'm like all right well what is the other person's contribution like they're not it's not like off like at the beach all day and i'm doing

all the housework like we are and again it's it's hard almost in those moments to remind yourself that you're you're a team and like you're all you're both doing like everything that every that both of us, at least in my situation are doing, is like for like the family. It's for like each other. It's just not always like so obvious. Like when you do something for your shared household, it's a little more obvious than like you're off to work. Yes, exactly. So yeah, communication. And just this, this is the first shot at it that you, that you have had at trying to communicate around household tasks, which is loaded for a lot of people. So I would just relax. I think you need to take another shot at it and be more intentional about your timing and all that

and see if you guys can get to a better place with being able to communicate calmly about what you need, what you need to feel appreciated, what you need to feel less overwhelmed. Yeah. But if he's not even willing to talk to you about that or come to you or have those discussions, I think that's a different conversation. But I would start here. Yeah. And sending this listener a big hug, I feel for you, I wish I could just give you big hug and let you know it's going to be okay. Yeah, you really get a lot more from these voicemails in terms of tone. Because I think if I read this without that, it would feel like a lot less distressful.

Or like how, you know, you get a sense, this is like really bothering her or really, really distressful for her. Yeah, and the worst is when you have an argument with your partner and then they leave to go to work for a long day where you can't really get in touch with them or you can't. can't talk about it because they're at work. And then you just have to sit all day with this, you know, uncomfortable tension left in the air. I feel that. That's tough. I agree. Yeah, that's annoying. That's why fight in the like three hours window, neither of you working. It's, it's tough to schedule a fight. Yeah. But you can schedule a discussion. You can't schedule a fight. So that's why it kind of is important. Timing, I do think is like the most underrated thing in like disagreements or discussions.

Like when talking about stuff that's important, I think people don't think of it that much is like that important of an element. You know, it's obvious like, oh, tone or, you know, not saying like mean things. Like those are obvious more, a little more obvious things. But the timing, I do think really like sets the entire pace and tone for like the productivity. of the conversation. Yes. And mindfulness really helps with that. Like you have to have that, you know, willpower and that ability to like breathe into your uncomfortable emotions and relax into them and not feel this sense of urgency. Like I'm going to text him right now and he's on the way to work and tell him how I feel like not a good idea. Yeah. And sometimes that urge is so strong

that then you do it and then everything's downhill from there because they're overwhelmed and they can't communicate well. So I get it. It's hard to sit in the tension and the discomfort and wait. Sometimes it might be two days that you have to wait before you can, or for some couples that really don't have that much time together, you might have to wait a week until you can sit down and have this conversation. And that is really hard, but I do think it's worth it. And it's good practice to just breathe into the discomfort. This is not an emergency. It feels like an emergency, but it's actually not an emergency. Agreed. All right, good luck. Let us know how it goes if you take these tips, if they work or not for you. For sure. All right, let's do a betchesist. Do you want to read that one?

Yeah, I'll read this. Dr. Naomi and Judana love the podcast. I have a question that's been playing in my life for several years that I would love an outside perspective on. It's an issue that I think comes down to my values at the end of the day, but I struggle to get perspective. on it. I'm a single 27-year-old female in New York City. I was raised in a religious family, and throughout my adult life, I've wrestled a lot with my religious convictions. This is ongoing, but I keep coming back to the idea that my religion is an important part of my life, so I would like to be a practicing member of my faith. I'll be at one with views and practices that would be viewed as more unorthodox. For context, I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, of

Latter-day Saints, aka Mormons. I think that's kind of relevant. Now to my question. I date mostly men who are not part of my faith. I'm very open to a mixed faith relationship, so this is not a conflict from my end. However, within my faith, we are taught to avoid sex before marriage.

It's considered perhaps the most critical rule to follow that impacts one's day-to-day life. Personally, I have mixed feelings. I think it's a lovely way to live your life and perhaps avoid some pain and heartbreak. but certainly can give rise to other relationship problems. That being said, I'm following this rule because it's such an important part of my faith, and choosing to actively have extramarital sex would feel like I was choosing to leave my faith.

Note that the majority of my friends are also members of my faith, so I'm very intertwined in the community. However, I'm finding this to be nearly impossible in dating. I've never had a boyfriend, and I'm very ready for a relationship, but I worry I can't date the boys I really want without moving on this issue. I've had two dating relationship with boys I really liked, who liked me, that both ended within a few weeks because I told them about the no-sex rule. I would venture these both would have turned into several months dating relationships if I had sex with them, plus several other guys that might have been flings, if not for the same. I do think this is perfectly reasonable stance for these guys to take. I would probably do the same, but I feel once they know this,

they become standoffish and weird. I would assume it's mostly because of the sex thing, but I think the label Mormon really freaks people out, even with me explaining that I'm thoughtful and not very orthodox. I would also add, I'm quite a physical person and I make out with guys a lot. I feel pretty in touch with my sexuality, all things considered. Also, dating within my faith is not a great option.

There's about one boy to every six or seven girls in the community in New York, and they are rarely boys I would match with. Finally, I would also add that I don't typically match well with men from other conservative religions as I'm actually politically quite liberal. I feel that people make a lot of assumptions about me when they find out about my faith, but most are incorrect. So I typically just don't disclose and most of my coworkers don't know I'm Mormon. What do you think? Is there any way to move forward without changing my stance here? This is taking up so much space in my brain. Would love any insight. Thanks, a sexless in the city batch. Question. Great question. I know you're kind of, I feel like you've advocated in the past for waiting a longer time before sleeping someone, which I think is a nice thing in theory to do, for sure. And I think that, I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with waiting until marriage to have sex. I do think that will eliminate a decent amount of people, potentially, but that doesn't mean that that's a bad thing.

Like two things can be true at one time. This can be like a perfectly reasonable and good decision that she's making for herself and her beliefs. And not everyone's going to be interested in it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think it's a great question for her to look at. One, I agree.

I think if this is something that's important to you, then you should do it. I think it probably would be important for this. listener to think more about why she's doing it, right? If it's harder to do, and I'm not saying don't do it, but it's harder to do if you're doing it just because you're told to do it. Like, just because, like, this is a rule. I'm following the rule. Because then it doesn't feel like she, like I would maybe even for her own sake, you know, give some more thought to like, why, you know, she said it's like to avoid heartbreak, to avoid painful situations. I'm assuming she's talking about like sleeping with someone and having them end it with you or that kind of thing.

If that's your reason, great, that's your reason. But I think I would explore a little bit for yourself. What are the reasons why you're doing it? And are you doing it just because your religion is telling you to? And you feel like I can't be Mormon if I don't do this thing. I think that's different than like I really see the deep value in this. Right. That's such a good point. Because it's harder to maintain and it is hard. It is going to be harder to give up potential connections with great guys, especially in New York City, right? We're like, the options are endless. So if a guy is going on a date with you and you're saying you're not going to sleep with him on the Uber on the way home, he's swiping through a bunch of other people that probably are going to sleep with him.

Way to scare her. I'm just kidding. No, I mean, I agree. I think that's like a big truth of the matter. I think what you're saying is so important because especially if she's not dating people within the faith who like almost have it is like, oh, of course. That's just what we all do, right? She's not in like Utah or somewhere where there's a huge Mormon community where everyone just gets it.

And so if you're dating in a place like New York City, I think what you're saying is like absolutely true. Like if someone's going to, if someone who wouldn't do that normally is. going, or like I'm speaking for myself, if I were speaking to a guy who said he didn't want to have sex until marriage and I was dating, I think it wouldn't be enough for me that it would be like, because my religion says so, and that's just a cornerstone of my religion, I would have to get, he would have to like bring me on board a little bit. Like, he would have to say like, I just feel like it's such a sacred thing. I feel like it's so intimate. It's whatever the

reasons are, like something that made sense to me. And I think that would make me more. And I think that would make me more likely to be not only be understanding, but to get to another intimate level with the person. Yes. Yeah, I think she has to be clear about why the real reasons why she's doing it and perhaps explore. Like, and it sounds like she has, but I'm just going to say this, like, are there ways that she could still feel connected to her faith without if this isn't something that she really feels that strongly about without this aspect of it. Like most people that are practicing members of a religion pick and choose certain aspects of that religion

that they choose to participate in. And if this is one that you feel really good about, I think it can help. Like if this is one that feels important to you and not just because I need to do it because they say so, I think it can lead you to the, you know, down a path towards connecting with someone that has the same values. And I have said in the past, like, I do think that sometimes if you don't want,

if you want a relation, like if someone goes into dating thinking, like, I want to find a life partner, but you're leading or you're having sex early on in the relationship, you're not, I mean, I'm not saying, don't do that. That's fine. You can do that. But you're also, there's a potential that you're not fully getting to know if this is a person. that could be a life partner before you're starting to have sex with them. And then there is that chance that the person is going to be like, okay, that was great. I wanted to get sex. I got it.

Or not even that. Not even that. I think that sort of is like the most evil way to think of it almost. Like he just wanted to have sex with you and then got everything he needed and was done. I think the more realistic way is like he's getting to know you. That's part of the way he gets to know people. And like regardless of whether or not you had sex, like he just didn't see it going long term. And you have and like you'll put it, you'll blame it on, you know, it's easy to say like he got what he wanted.

But it's usually more like as you got to know each other more, he decided you weren't the match for him. But it feels like you've given something away. Right. Yeah. Yes. And that's why I think it does feel safer. But even in general with the idea of sex, like I talk to so many women. that are dating.

And there's so much fear, I think, around this idea, like, of you match with someone on a dating app and are they or are they not a fuck boy? Like, there's so much mental gymnastics that goes into figuring out. Like, for example, I'll talk to someone and they'll get a message from someone that says something like, do you want to hang out this weekend? and they'll be like, nope, he said hang out. Like, that means he just wants to have sex because he used the words, hang out instead of like, go out. Right.

Do you want to go to dinner? Right. Right. So, but I think people are so scared of this idea of getting, this is kind of a tangent from her question, but I do think it's important. So I think a lot of my experiences, women are scared of like, even. even giving someone a chance to, they wouldn't go, they wouldn't respond or wouldn't like hang out because they're afraid that all they want is sex. When I would encourage you to just take control of it. If you don't want sex, then just don't have sex. If you don't want it to be about the sex,

then hang out with him and don't have sleep with him. Yes. And then he can't get, he can't like manipulate the situation, you get to control the situation because you're choosing whether or not you have sex. And guess what? If you hang out and you make out on the couch and he touches your boob, like you can also at that point be like, and we're also still not having sex. Like you can roll around naked on the bed and also say, we're still not having sex. Like you get to call shots. So just because If someone enters a situation and what you think that they're like a fuck boy, they don't get to be a fuck boy if you don't do that. So like I do think in general this idea of like I need to, you know, like I think women are

scared of that. And this maybe feels like a little bit of a protection if you put that out there. Like I'm going to make sure that I'm not getting the guy. Right. It might be how someone could see it. Yeah. I think there's a few reasons. I think there's like many reasons that someone.

would not be interested in this. And again, that's not to say it's the wrong decision. I think that's maybe that's one of it, a feeling of like protection. I think there's some, for some people having sex with someone again is their way of getting to know them or if it's an important part of a relationship that they wouldn't want to wait to see if you're sexually compatible, see if you're married. And again, I think that's everyone's, there's no wrong way to do it. I think, and again, I think it's like, okay that she's getting rid of some options.

And part of it will be helpful. Part of it is she's getting rid of people who are only interested in that or have no intention on getting to know her. But I think it also doesn't, I guess because of the religion part, it seems so black and white. Like to me, if she reframe this is I don't want to have sex unless I feel like deeply committed, like I'm in a deeply committed loving relationship with someone who I feel I respect and respects me. Yes. Like might she be able, like you said, if she really thought about it, might she be able to get the same benefit out of it? of it that's still kind of tied to this idea of her religion, then all or nothing. Like, can she make her own rules?

Yes. And I think it's worth her exploring that. And I do think it can help her find her person if she's kind of like, I'm looking for a life partner. And I love that. I love coming out of the box with that kind of thing. So you know right away there are people that are looking for that and there are people that are not.

And so I do think you can take the stance of like, you know, we can have sex as once we feel like this is getting in a really serious direction and we want to see if we're compatible in that way before we get married, that might be a different stance to take. Like, you know, if that's so important to you that you want to like feel that out, but we don't need to do that on the second or third date. We can do that like once we're really deeply in a relationship and like think that. this is going to really be able to go somewhere and you're having feelings for me and I'm having feelings for you and, you know, we really respect each other and maybe that if that's that person's perspective on it, but that they need to feel that out before. But yeah, there's going to be people that are not going to want to wait. But I also think there are going to be people where they'll say like this person's worth the wait. Like I've been looking for a long time for the person that feels like

For a virgin. They're my person. Yes. Yeah. And you are worth it to me. And I think that you can find that. Obviously, there are going to be a lot of people, especially in a city like New York that are going to roll that out. I agree. But again, I think nothing.

I think the idea of telling someone sex is very meaningful to you is a good thing. And we'll get rid of people who sex is not meaningful. Because someone who does not think sex is meaningful at all is not going to be a match. for you. Yeah. It's too far on the other side. Yes. So I think it's about having it be more of a conversation, working on your pitch, working on the way that you describe it. And I don't think you need to do this, honestly, this, I don't know if you agree with this, but I don't think she needs to do this right away. I agree too. Yeah. Yeah, I think she could date. They could get to know each other. She could just

be another girl that doesn't chooses not to have sex on the second or third or fourth date. And then maybe once you're really connecting, then you can kind of explain a little bit more about how you feel about it. I definitely don't think this needs to be something that you need to say on the first or second date before someone, like, because someone's going to have to say this girl's worth the weight. They're not going to know that you're worth the weight after a date or two. Agreed. Yeah. I think you could tell, like to someone that you feel intimately connected with who deserves to know it. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah. Good luck.

Keep us posted. I'm curious about this. I think whether it's this, like a real, like I'm waiting for marriage or the reason why I bring up the women that are so afraid of like dating the guy that they think is the fuckboys, because I think there are other versions of this. Like maybe you're not waiting for marriage, but you also like don't want to have sex with someone that you're not in a relationship with. And that is, it might be unpopular advice, but sometimes I do talk to specifically women.

about being able to say confidently, I don't sleep with people that I'm not in an exclusive relationship with. And that's another version of this that I think some people can benefit from. One, because you just have the security of knowing that they're not sleeping with other people when they're sleeping with you. And a lot of times it's flip-flop. You sleep together and then you have the exclusivity talk where if you feel like you don't want, which most people honestly don't, once you're sleeping with something,

someone, you're not really comfortable with them sleeping with other people. Let's be honest, but it oftentimes happens reverse. You sleep with them first, then you have an exclusivity talk three months later. Right. It just doesn't really make a lot of sense if that's not what you actually want. It's more it comes from a place of fear of like if I don't sleep with them, they'll leave. And if I ask them for exclusivity, they'll leave. So I just have to, you know, let them call all the shots. I think the way you're describing it is a lot more empowering. Yeah. Yes, I love. And I like, And I like that because you don't have to be at the whim of a fuck boy. He could be, let him be a fuck boy.

It's not going to happen with you if you choose not to let it happen. Exactly. You can't be fuckboid without your consent. Yes. Yes, exactly. Let's do an intention. Moving. You ready?

I'll read it. Okay. Dear Dr. Naomi and Jordana, I'm writing because I need an intention to stop snapping at my boyfriend anytime I'm scared, stressed, embarrassed or frustrated. This issue has come up a lot more since we start. started skiing together, but it's not isolated to that. It's just a clear example. My boyfriend is a much better skier than I am, but I'm getting to the point where I can challenge myself with harder runs with his encouragement. But this means I'm ending up in scarier situations and I consistently find myself

blaming him anytime I fall or get stuck somewhere. One part of my brain feels like I trusted him to keep me safe, so when I get scared, it's his fault. But the other part knows that I'm a grown woman who chose to point my skis down the black run, so that really isn't fair. This also comes up in other situations where I get frustrated and snap at him for things that are really out of both of our control. I find myself blaming him anytime something goes wrong in order to avoid blaming myself. It even extends to things as dumb as it being too hot at night or dinner not going as planned. My question is, in these heightened moments, how can I slow down and focus my own feelings and how to constructively express them instead of just turning my emotions on him and ultimately

ultimately hurting his feelings. Sincerely a snappy fetch. I love this very nuanced relationship issue that a lot of people don't talk about. That I think happens often. Agreed. It's like the tiniest little moments of like, I'm uncomfortable, something's not going as planned. And so therefore I'm going to like turn to the closest person and lash out. I'll all my, project all my rage onto them. And this is, thank you for writing in.

This is almost like kind of what you were describing in the beginning, a little bit of a shame. What did you call it? Shed my shame. Shed my shame a little bit. Because, you know, I think, and good for her for recognizing that she acts like this, because I think a lot of the times in relationships, people don't, are not introspective and aren't looking at their own behavior

and maybe convince themselves that acting this way can be justified. Yeah, because I'm sure you could come up with a million reasons. I, you know. Right. The thermostat or like you convinced me. Yeah, you could justify this a million ways, which she probably has done. You can find a way to blame someone for anything for sure. So what do you think she should do?

Yeah, I mean, I think that her nervous system is like taking over. So and the reason why I love this question is because this happens so much where like when you're just uncomfortable or you're, you're scared. or there's something happening in your nervous system that is like activating, the go-to thing for a lot of people is like, I need to do something. And one of the quickest and easiest things to do is to blame, assess blame. I think that's something that people often do very quickly when something goes wrong.

Like even if I could think, you probably can too. Think of a million examples where this happens in your own life. like you're late for a dinner reservation and you get to the restaurant and they say, ah, you know, we have a 10 minute grace period and we had to give away your reservation. The first urge is to kind of be like, well, whose fault is it? Right. I told you to get ready. I said that we shouldn't make a 730.

I said it should be 745. I was in the car. It's like, bam, your instinct is to instantly when something goes wrong, assess blame. So I think just immediately recognizing that tendency and it happens with literally could be anything. Like you think about your house. Yeah, it almost gives you the feeling of like you have more control, I guess, because you can blame someone. So maybe like your brain is trying to figure out a way to make it something avoidable in the future. Like it's harder to be like, oh, we miss the right.

They're not going to seat us. I'm just like sad. Yeah. Like that sucks. Yeah. That sucks. It does feel, I don't know, it feels like you can't really do much with that, I guess. Like there's not.

Yeah. And I think we are always kind of wired to like want to like do something about something. And if you're blaming someone, at least you're like, I don't know, punishing someone or maybe avoiding it in the future. Yes. Yeah. It feels like you're doing something, but you're actually doing is making it worse, which I think she's starting to realize that. It's the quickest fix to one, feel like you're doing something and two, not feel badly like you, that it was your fault or you made a mistake.

So it like is a quick way to solve both of those problems. Like something bad is happening. It's not my fault. And like I'm doing something to about it because my nervous system is activated and is telling me do something to change the way that this feels. Right. And it protects your own ego. your own feeling of shame.

Like, let's say, if she goes down, she said this is happening when they're skiing. Yeah. So it's like a lot harder to be like, I made a huge mistake and I went down this mountain,

which I am not capable enough skier to do. And we've all, not, we've all, but like I've done that where I'm like, oh my God, I might die and it might be my fault

because I just could have easily just not done this. You know, you fall, your ski falls off, you get like snowed down the crack of your butt. You're like,

totally uncomfortable, embarrassed, like people are looking at you. And it's much easier to kind of get that, like, look at your partner and be like, this is your fault. I should never, I shouldn't be here. Right. How could you let me do this? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Totally. It's an ego protection thing for sure. And I think it's just a very simple, like, retraining your brain with the mantra or the intention of sometimes bad things happen and it's nobody's fault. It's really just as simple. I think we learn this from our parents. I think this is a learned behavior that a lot of times,

if you start watching it around you, you'll see how prevalent this type of thing is, which is why I love this question. That when something goes wrong, I'd almost venture to say most people will immediately go to finding out who's to blame. And the more you watch it and the more you could notice, okay, sometimes bad things happen or sometimes hard things happen and it's nobody's fault. Right. And I think that's almost the realization you come to like

after, you know, when you've had like, you know, if you start a fight with someone and then maybe like an hour or later you're rethinking about the situation, you're like, I'm not really even mad at it. Like I know, you kind of almost like you feel like after you've thrown a tantrum as a kid, we've talked about this for your like, kind of want to pretend it didn't happen. So it's like almost if you could do that before you actually start the fight. Because I think we all know when we're blaming someone that doesn't desert. You're taking something out on someone. And I almost think it helps to like name the, name the emotion when you're freaking out about it.

Like if she's on the black diamond, she could just say instead of like, why would you make me come down here? Which I, it's like her, why are we here? I feel really scared. I'm just very scared that I'm going to hurt myself or do this wrong. Yes, or I'm embarrassed or, yeah, whatever the emotion is. Totally. I think that's a great idea. Pause.

I think pauses are really, really important to kind of interrupt that automatic process of like nervous system activation blaming someone. Right. Like nervous system activation, pause. Name the vulnerable emotion, the softer emotion. Right. Scared, embarrassed, whatever that might be. Even frustrated or whatever it is. Hot.

Right. I'm feeling I'm hot. I'm comfortable. Yeah. Yes. And then I'm just reminding yourself, sometimes hard things happen and it's nobody's fault. And like then future instead of past. like then going, how do we make it better?

What do I need to move forward instead of looking back? But yeah, I love this question. If you're listening, pay attention. I think a lot of people do this. And it does negatively affect relationships often because it ends up. That's what it is. You get in the car, you're running late. You see it all the time.

Like when I used to have in-person couple sessions, I could tell if like couples were running late and they would come in. There's like this big thick like tension because I know that on the ride over they were probably fighting about like whose fault it was that they were late. It's like, okay, you're late. Right. There's a point in, you know, assessing blame around it. Right. It's not actually helping a situation. Unless someone really did screw up. Unless you said you were going to be home at five and you didn't show up. Like that's obviously, like sometimes it is. Someone does screw up. Yeah. Yeah. If it's a pattern, if it's something that like, You've addressed many times, and that's a different story.

But this sounds like I think she's just noticing that when she gets physically activated, her urge is to blame. Right. So I'm glad that you're aware. So what intention do you have for her? Yeah, so just that simple intention. I think of, yeah, I mean, of just realizing, like, sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes bad things happen. Nobody's fault.

I honestly have already established that intention from myself. in noticing this thing that happens. I like that. I'm going to use that for a flight delay. Yes. Yes. It just is. There doesn't have to be somebody to blame.

Like even that, you know, it's almost like, you know, we're getting on the plane and, you know, we had to check the carry-on bags

because they didn't have space for the carry-on bags. And then, you know, you start in with, well, why do they make the planes like this? They should make the plane. planes with enough room for everything. It's like,

why are they bored like that? Right, yeah. It's just like, okay, we're checking the bags, take a breath. This whole rant is not going to undo the fact that we're going to have to wait at the baggage carsel. Yeah. And a little bit feels like almost like someone has to pay for this negative emotion. Yes. Right. Yes. Yes. And if it feels unfair. If it's the airline, it's okay. It doesn't affect you. But if it's your partner, it could kind of ruin your day. Right. Yeah, blame the airline. That's my intention for you. Blame the airline. Let's do some triggers. Do you want to read our first one?

Yeah, I will read this. Hi there. Here's my triggered scenario. It's one that at the time was like a 9-10 and over the years has definitely reduced but not entirely gone away. I was a COVID bride. I planned my 2020 wedding entirely before the pandemic hit. When the world shut down, I postponed my wedding six months. We planned the whole thing basically, only to wake up to the real, a few months later that the wedding wasn't going to happen due to the pandemic and a new situation where my mother-in-law became very sick, and we realized postponing more would mean she would be unlikely to be able to travel to a wedding. In the end, my husband and I got married on our original 2020 wedding date with just our parents and siblings and attendance. Suffice it to say, it's a bit sad to see our wedding video with masks on people's faces and no friends there. So what am I triggered by? We sent out Save the Dates before, COVID hit. Then we sent out postponement slash news save the dates. Then we ultimately sent out a cancellation

card and shared that we just got married without having the wedding. In the months that followed, some people sent us wedding gifts, but it was a relatively small fraction of who was invited. Many of our friends whose weddings, bachelor's party showers, et cetera, that we attended and spent so much money on over the years did not send us anything. It was a real bummer on top of missing out on having a wedding and any events that go with it. Can I still be tricky? Can I still be triggered almost five years later when I get invited to a wedding, it feels selfish to be triggered for not receiving gifts. But I think part of it isn't about financial and material gain and more so feels like my husband and I were an afterthought during a time that we were really hurting. And yes,

we did lose money on our wedding deposits too, so it's not not about some money. Thanks. Okay. So I want to start by saying, I validate that it's very, it was probably very stressful and a hard time in your life to have to have a COVID wedding that you canceled and had to redo and postpone and then get married and then also having to get married without the wedding that you originally wanted to have the wedding you envisioned for yourself. Like there is a grieving process for that. It's not nothing. Obviously, we'd make fun of people getting married all the time, but I get it. I think it is a very annoying thing to have to deal with. On the other hand, I can totally see the mindset, especially for friends who are not that close to you, of if I'm invited to a wedding

that it's happening, I will give a gift, whether I go or not. And if I'm not invited to the wedding, I don't need to give a gift. I can understand someone thinking that, like, if there's a wedding to attend and I'm invited, like, I don't know, I don't know if she sent out like a Zoom link. People used to do that for weddings. And I, I, would be more likely to give a gift that I was invited to the wedding, even if it was virtually. Right. Yeah, I think it, I agree. I totally validate. This is, you know, this was a thing that you lost out on, the grieving process, all that. And I do think for most of these people, like, if they were listening to this and they heard about it, they might even send a gift.

I just think it's not like top, it wasn't, I'll speak for myself. Like, Unless you're a very thoughtful person that's like dotting all your eyes and crossing all your teas, I just don't think they thought about like sending a gift to a wedding that they didn't go to. Like I don't even know that most of these people were like there was no wedding, therefore I'm not sending a gift. I think it's almost like when you're getting dressed for the wedding to like go to the wedding, you pull out your checkbook and you write a check and put it and like bring it with you to the wedding. That's like the process of how you give this gift or, um, no, I agree. I think I meant the same thing. Like, they're not, they're not thinking like, oh, if I'm, if I'm invited to a wedding, I'm going to go and bring a gift to the wedding.

But if I'm not, then you just wouldn't think of it. Yeah. Wouldn't even think of like sending a gift. And I'm sure the people that probably did, I'm curious if those are more of your like type A friends that are like more on top of things in general. Yeah, or on top of etiquette or wanting to feel like you've, you know, they've, they've, they've, they wanted to acknowledge the original wedding invite. But I wouldn't be, I can't say that I would definitely not be the person that was like, oh, I'm invited, especially if it was not like a close friend. If I got a wedding invitation that was set for like May 2020 and then I got another notice, notice that the wedding was canceled, I might just go about my life and not. think about, I might not even, you might not even know that they, that like they got, that you eloped until they saw it on Instagram. It depends how close you are. Well, she said she wrote in the thing, like we ended up getting married. Oh, she wrote in the like post-bonment like the postpon, like the postponement that we ended up. Right. Another part of it is also like sometimes people do that and then they, I've seen people do that and then they had like the big party a year later.

Yes. Yes. So I think that's an option is. like one thought that came to mind is like you never got to do this you're obviously sad about it like maybe you don't call it a wedding but if you want to have that feeling of like a big celebration of your love with your partner with all your friends like do like a five year anniversary or um something like that and then everyone will come i don't know that everyone's going to bring a gift but i think they might i would bring a gift to anything i was invited to that was like a big deal also or just like if someone was like if someone was throwing an event.

Like, would you go to someone's house without bringing anything? Right. I mean, I went to your house without bringing anything. But, yeah, that's different. We're related. Yeah. But, yeah, I do think that there is an aspect of this. I get it.

I really do understand how she feels. And I think, honestly, looking back, it's probably the, it would have been the right thing to do for these people to send a wedding gift. if they, especially if they have gotten married and you've sent them a gift, I think it would have been the right thing to do so I could see why you're irked. I just don't think it was done intentionally. I think it was done as an oversight, like a logistical oversight, which I could see why it's bothering you. And I do think if you want to have that experience, not just obviously for the gifts, but for the experience of like celebrating with friends and family, maybe you do it. Anniversary party. Yeah. I'm just saying that would be another reason I might not get a gift for someone who said that they eloped because a lot of the time that happened and then people through another event. Right. And it makes more, it always feels more, I think internally it feels more appropriate to bring a gift to something that you're technically invited to.

Right. Showing up than just like putting something in the mail. So definitely validated. I think like this, I could see this being me, right? Like, I'm the person that, like, didn't send the gift, but I, but I should have. Sure. Yeah. You know, like I see that too.

You know, I get that these people probably should have put a gift in the mail, but didn't. And I think you just have to chalk it up to, you know, and maybe you do want to talk to some people. Like, she said something about, like, not being seen when they were going through a lot. So, right. Maybe it's just a matter of a conversation with some select people that you feel like maybe didn't fully understand how hard this was for you. And, you know, just calling up, feeling like, I look at my wedding photos and there's like five people there. Everyone's wearing masks. Like, I just feel sad that I never had that. Right. And also, maybe they didn't know how many people were at the new thing. Like, here's my other question to you, hypothetically. If someone had a, someone had a wedding, they canceled in COVID. And then they had a 50 per. Because the last. limit was 50 people for a while. And they had a 50 Purverson wedding and you were cut from the 50. You weren't included in the top 50. Would you feel like you even need it to send a gift? Right. Yes. That changes it.

I would say no. I would say no too. I'd be like, well, I didn't make the cut for the new smaller wedding. And like... Good point. That might be what people are thinking. It's like you said it was an elopement, but like, some, you know, was it really just the two of you? Yeah. Yeah. The pictures, it's not always clear how many people are there. Like, I might, you might just think you had like a small COVID. You just reduced, you just cut the guess list. Right. Yeah, good point. Um, but I think the bigger issue is that you're kind of like grieving the loss of this experience. And I get it. And look, I, I want, I don't know if I have a reputation as like a bride hater. Like, I don't like, it's, It's weddings are amazing.

Like, they're beautiful. They're fun. Like, do it. You know, I'm not, I just think when it becomes this whole thing of like if somebody doesn't, you know, respond to my every whim that somehow they're not like a loyal. Right. No, I'm joking. I know you're a reasonable person.

That's, that's all I'm saying. So, like, I do feel for her that she didn't get the wedding, you know, really any type, anything close to the wedding that she wanted. So, yeah, throw a little party. I think that would help you feel better. And again, not for the gifts, but maybe you could just, you know, as a way that you guys can have that experience of celebrating your love with friends and family. And if not that, then just talk to some of your friends, I think, about, like, how this did affect you. Because maybe they, you know, everyone was in their own little bubbles during that time anyway.

They probably didn't realize. And people don't know how much money you lost on the deposits. Like, no one knows how much, like, you know, what you could get back or whatever. that I would take that part out of it because I don't think that's entirely obvious to people. I'd give this like, give it like a three and a half because I think I would do the same thing. Right. I'm going to give it a five. Okay.

Because I do, I do think the right thing to do if someone sent a note saying we ended up getting married would have been to send a gift. Would I have done it? Probably not. but I'm not saying that's not the right thing to have done. Okay, there. So five. You're giving a five, I'm going to three and a half. We disagree, but I'll, I respect your option.

All right. Let's do one more. All right. Dear sister power duo, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, love that. I need some sister power support because I'm feeling really hurt right now following a triggering scenario. I'm the oldest of three sisters. and tonight my middle sister called to tell me that our youngest sister's boyfriend texted her to share his proposal plans. He gave her the proposal and engagement party details and asked her to invite

family. Can you give me a headcount for how many people from your family would come? Invite grandparents, cousins, and her best friend and anyone else you can think of. I already asked your parents. Everyone, it seems, except me. For context, I've never been particularly close with my youngest sister's boyfriend, but we're always civil at events. As sisters, we, used to be really close, but now the middle sister is the one who connects with each of us separately. Hearing this news, my first reaction was shock and hurt. To not even be considered on the invite list, let alone inform directly, feels awful. Does he not see me as part of the family? My middle sister says she's telling me to make sure I block off the dates to be there, but when I got quiet and

upset, she dismissed it, saying, I don't see what the big deal is. But if the roles were reversed, I know she'd be hurt too. When I asked how, he got her number, she said he must have been, she said he must have asked my youngest sister for it, which means he chose not to ask for mine. That stings even more. I don't want to take away from my little sister's special day and I won't. But how do I move forward after being completely excluded? And how do I handle my middle sister's dismissal of my feelings, especially when this might be a sign of things to come with wedding planning? How triggered would you be? Big sis, bigger snub. Weddings have a way of doing this.

Yes. Yeah. I think she's getting ahead of herself a little bit about the wedding and like things to come in terms of what this means. I think this was maybe like a Freudian slip on his part. Like if she's reading the direct text message, which doesn't make it not hurt. Like it sounds like somehow she got a copy of the actual text. that he sent out. Yeah.

Which he was like, oh, invite the whole family. Invite the whole family. And I think maybe I could see why she, like she wasn't on there, but I think it was like a subconscious, like Freudian slip that she wasn't on there.

Like there sounds like maybe they have a little bit of a tense relationship. I don't think he intentionally was excluding her because like he said invite everybody, invite the whole family. Yeah, it would be weird for him to be like, not include, you know what I mean? Invite your grandparents, anyone you think would be great, but not the person.

I think maybe he just didn't include, again, just an oversight. Right. Of saying for exact. Right. Go to the store, get some fruit. Get apples, bananas, grapes. Does it mean that you cannot get peaches?

Like, you can get peaches, but I just didn't mention peaches. Right. Plus, this wasn't like a list. Like, here's the people that I want you to invite. It's like, let me know everyone you want to invite and just so you know it doesn't have to just be like immediate family. It's kind of what I read that as. Right. I agree. I think because there is sounds like maybe some tension between these two

sisters, perhaps, or this older sister and the fiance, I think she's aware and sensitive. If they had a great relationship, I don't think she would have even noticed or cared. It's because they have a tense relationship that, A, he might have, like, subconsciously forgot to put her name in there. Or, and B, she noticed that he forgot to put her name in there. So I don't even know if it seems like it's tense, though. To me, it seems like they're just not close at all. Like, maybe they don't, like, the fact that he didn't have either of their numbers. To me, it's like, It's not even like he had the sister's number. Like, to me, it's like, she's not that close with the younger sister.

She says that. She acknowledges the middle sister is close with both of them. And they kind of communicate through her. So I'm like, why would you think this would be any different? Like, to me, it's not like, oh, he hates her. I think he just like doesn't see her that much. And I think she's kind of taking out kind of what we were talking about before, where it's like, it can be no one's fault and still be hurtful.

Like, yeah, this is good. And that's what weddings do is like, okay, now we're kind of like acknowledging who we're closest to. And that's kind of how weddings are made. Like you have the maid of honor and then the bridesmaids and then the regular guests. And like it kind of forces you to rank people. And for some people, I think there's a lot of interpersonal problems that come with that because it sort of makes you you're either you're having to evaluate all the people in your life or you're getting a very clear sign about where you fall. in the person's life.

Like I'll see this. If I'm at a wedding and I'm like at the back table in the corner, I'm like, we're not close. And if you also agree that you're not close,

I'm like not offended by it. If I thought I was closer to someone and I'm like basically in the hallway, I'm like, good to know. Yes. Totally. And I do think for this listener, I get that this hurts a little bit,

but this might be a wake up call that if you want to have a closer relationship with your younger sister, you have to do something about it. Right? Like this might be a good indicator that like maybe you're not okay with the middle sister being the one that connects you or like, you know, having most of your communication linked through this middle sister. And if you're not okay with it, maybe you need to start reaching out to your sister. Maybe you need to reach out and say, hey, let's grab dinner, you know, the three of us. you know, I want to get to know so and so better. Like I do think this might be, there might be a silver lining to this that's showing you

that you are hurt by this because you would like a closer relationship than what you have. And that's not just going to happen. She's going to be wrapped up in her new marriage and her new life. And I think it's going to end up having to come from you to be making a little bit of more effort to be closer. It's almost like, it's tough because you're like, okay, you don't notice that you're drifting away from someone or you don't care even that much that you're growing distance between someone with someone until the bridal party list comes out. And then you're like, wait,

we've, but why? Why are when I hire? Right. Right. And it's like you probably, most people, not always, but a lot of times, it's like, well, let's look back at our text chain. Like we haven't talked in six months or we haven't got out for dinner in, you know, a year or whatever it is. So, like, you have to face reality. Like, if I want to be closer to this person, I have to put effort into being closer to this person. Totally. And I think getting mad is not going to help you get closer to this person. I think it's, to me, it's almost like she's acknowledging the reason he didn't text her instead of the other sister in the email.

She says, she's closer with a middle sister. Why didn't? And then she goes, why didn't he text? She asked for the middle sister's number. He didn't ask for mine. Like, you already gave the answer to that. you yourself said they're closer. So it's like, that's why I don't think it's that triggering.

It's because like she's acknowledged preemptively that they're, that her middle sister would be the obvious choice. If I were, if I were, you know, if I were going to propose to someone with more than one sibling and I wanted to relay the details of the proposal, I think my first thought would be like, let me pick the sister that she's closer with, who knows more, me knows more of her friends or has a better sense of,

you know who she'd won at a surprise in proposal party or whatever it is. Yeah, and has been the middle person between her and the other sister. It seems like like if they're close and they're getting married, he probably knows that, that a lot of the communication between you guys is through this middle sister. So why would this be any different? But I want her to listen to this and leave with like,

this is a good thing. This is a wake up call that you want to have. have a bigger role in your little sister's life. Instead of getting defensive and angry, you have the choice here to take some ownership over where that distance has come from. And if you wanted to be better, the other good thing is a wedding is a great opportunity for you to lean a little further in. How much you care about them, for sure.

I want to come to your dress shopping or I want to, you know, can I plan you a bridal shower? Yeah. And I think a super vulnerable, nice way to do that would be after she gets engaged, like Don't ruin the proposal. But after she gets engaged, I think you could text her and be like, you know, when whatever the fiancé texted the middle sister, like, I realize we like really are not as close as we used to be. And it made me kind of sad. And I would love to use, you know, and again, not anger, but it may be kind of sad that we're just, we're not really in that place anymore. I would love to like use this opportunity of you getting married, like, and be, I want to be there for you, like you said, for all of these events.

sir, I just want us to like grow that bond more because this was kind of like a wake up call for me that our relationship has kind of been on the back burner and I'd rather work on it now. Love it. Even hearing you say that, like I feel like I'm getting a little, you know, like an excited sense of like this is a moment for connection, for vulnerable connection. Like I'm excited at the idea that you can choose instead of leaning into anger to leaning into vulnerability and you guys can come out of this much closer. I know it's very possible to take something like getting married or having a baby or moving into a new apartment or like these life milestones to change the direction of a relationship that could be fizzling. So I'm actually excited for you

and I hope you choose to use this to lean in instead of getting angry and please give us an update. Yes. Again, but if you respond with, With anger, she's just going to, it's just going to be further away. It's just going to, the relationship is only going to get further, not closer. If you respond with what you're really feeling, which is like sadness at the state of your relationship, that's where you move forward with someone who's like working with you and not against you. Agreed.

So I kind of want to give it a low number, but I also am really excited about how this can be helpful. So I don't want, like, I think how triggered. Can she be given all the information? I would say like a three, but I also feel like this triggered is like I'm glad that it happened. And I'm glad that she feels triggered because if she didn't care, I don't think there would be any effort to repairing. Well, you always say this. It's almost like she's adding anxiety about this thing, which she's not naming it that, but it seems like she's having some anxiety about this thing. And anxiety is helpful to the extent to which it gets you to take action.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. So this is good anxiety for her. It's giving her a sign she wants something different. Totally. So I hope this is a step in the right direction. Great. I agree. Give it a three. All right. I think we did it. And I hope listeners are kind to me from my vulnerable share at the top of the episode. I appreciate you sharing. I think that, you know, it's helpful. We've all done it. before. Losing my temper is like my least favorite emotion. Sure. I like you. Yeah. It was not. It's almost kind of nice when I see it. Well, it's just so ironic. I know she had it in her. It doesn't happen often and it happened

and then like the cops fell off. Well, maybe you have an anxiety. Maybe that's going to now feed your fear of having, you know, let it out a little bit. I think it's okay. Right. Right. And that's good for you. Oh, Jeff loves it because he's like, I don't want to be the, like, sometimes you're so, like, chill all the time. Like, I don't want to be the only one that's like, you know, losing. You're human too. Yes. All right. So, uh, all right, that's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Rebecca Steinberg. Editing by Will Maxwell. Guest booking by Allie Freebender. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and everything's fine. And send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294.

Betches. Thank you.