Oversharing - What’s The Difference Between Love Bombing And Being In Love?

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Jordana and Dr. Naomi are together in the Betches studio! They catch up on Dr. Naomi’s NY visit so far, and the dynamics of spending time with extended family. Our Overshare comes from a male listener who wants to make sure he and his new girlfriend aren’t love bombing each other. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a Betch whose married sex life isn’t what it used to be. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for an overwhelmed mom dealing with the Terrible Twos. And we’re feeling triggered by gamer husbands and step moms who overstep. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And we are back and it's a very special episode because you are in studio.

In person. It is so, such a different. Different vibe, right? Like I, it's actually kind of weird. Like I'm so used to looking at a screen that I'm like. It feels uncomfortable. Yeah. Like a slightly uncomfortable.

Yeah. But there you are. Much more intimate. Intimate. Right. Talking actually to each other. Well, it's probably, it reminds me of like when people used to do like FaceTime dates on in COVID and stuff.

Yes. And then you'd be like meet the person and it probably kind of felt like you knew them, but it probably also. kind of felt like a totally different experience. It's very different. I think especially with like with dating stuff, it's kind of, once you're in person,

I feel like you can, there's like the chemical part of it that you don't get on FaceTime. There's like a little pheromone. There's like definitely some in person. And even just like seeing your whole mannerisms and yeah, there's so much that you get. We don't realize how much we get from being body language.

Like just seeing, okay, which way are your legs crossed and like how are you? you holding your hands and um but i like it yeah here should we touch oh my god weird just because we can look at this wow love you love you too oh my god we're in studio and so you've been here all weekend yes been here all weekend so we've already had a hang yes we had a nice beach hang we've had a couple big family get gatherings which you know we're very to be expected Yeah, I got to thinking about that because there's so many people at all of our big family gatherings that you don't even really get to like speak to any people.

But I always wonder what it would be like and you probably have more of a sense of this having kind of your nuclear five person family of like. Because our family never felt like a cohesive unit because there's always like different people with different parents and different things. And even if you had the same parents, your parents were like divorced. so you weren't fully. It's like you were going to like a family dinner and just being with your family. You're always with like a part of your family. Right.

And there's the age difference where it's like I was, you know, gone for part of the time and then you come back. So yeah. Right. So it must be a very different experience. You know, and Jeff raising your three kids as like a, like you're a unit that like goes around together.

Yes. And it's like the whole unit's moving around. It is true. And it's like a manageable size unit. It's five people. Right. It is true. What's interesting is like when you go to these things,

probably in couples, dinners and things like that too. It's like you sit with your family, but like the whole point of coming here is to like talk to other people. Right. It's like we could talk to each other all the time. But I think people do that. Like when two families go out together. You want to be like comfortable.

Like you want to make sure everyone's comfortable. I guess if you're by your kids probably. You want to like manage their. asking you for stuff for especially when they're little like you need to feed them or something. But this, so this, we had a dinner for 15 people. Which was basically our immediate family and spouses. And our great Aunt Judy. And our great Aunt Judy who is at the head of the table.

The kids were like, why were, why was everyone moving around during dinner? Like I wanted to sit at one end so I could talk to some people and then sit at the other end and move around. So that I was kind of like getting away from the whole like, we're moving as a unit. I was like, I want to talk to my brother. I want to talk to my aunt Judy and just kind of see everybody. You don't see everyone. Yeah. So you want to do that. So that was. But then you want to sit away from the people that annoy you. But you need to put in some time. Yeah. So it is a nice little balance. But I think it went very well. 15 people dinner went well. Everybody seemed to get along. Right. But it's funny. I mean, like, I'm saying to contrast it with

your family unit. Do you feel like there's like a different sense of a closeness because everyone's knows what's going on with everyone all day, every day. And there's sort of just like a very clear unit. Yes. Yes. I guess I never really thought about it until this minute like comparing them, comparing them. And there, you know what it is? It's more of like a like a structure. There's more structure. This is what we do. We get five people to do the same thing. And these are the expectations we you know have I was thinking like we have dinner together right most nights and like that wasn't when we were growing up that wasn't a thing like we didn't sit down maybe Friday night we would have dinner right for like a period of like three years when things were peaceful and even then

maybe maybe not so there's like these different rituals that are very structured that we didn't have because there's so many people right and going and there's not as much like a okay, here's what the expectation is. Like, these are the routines. So I think that is different. Yeah. And I think I craved that a lot, like growing up, not having that. Or it's sort of like every man for himself a little chaotic.

Like there's no family structure. I really liked school for that reason. I remember. I was like... You're such a cute little nerd. But it was like, I like was like loving like that ever, there was like order. And, you know, you like did your homework and like that was like expected. And then you get like a test.

And if you did well, you did well. It was like subjective, like, this is the order of the bell in school. It was very nice. It was not that. I mean, look, it's interesting because maybe you crave that. And now that I'm married, Jeff had a lot of structure growing up. He had like a four person little unit. Right.

And I'm more like, you want to have a friend over? Sure, come over. You want two, three, four friends over. Come over. Jeff's like, wait, I'm cooking dinner. Like, I need to know how much food there's going to be. Like what's the, and I'm just like, sure, you want to go to your friend's house? Go ahead.

He's like, wait, what time are we doing this? So there is this now when we have these little moments, it's usually because I'm used to just free for all, no structure, do whatever you want. Or like people will adapt. Yeah, we'll just figure it out. Which is nice. I have that too. I think I have like a good, I think when you were coming to visit and last year or like our

brother Josh talking about visiting in the fall. and Mike's like well did you tell them that like the furniture like we don't the furniture and there's no furniture in the living room like they don't give a shit like what do you tell like they're going to come in and like there's a place to sleep like you don't understand like we had a house where like you were lucky if there was toilet paper and there was something there like we all know like we all know how to adapt adapt yeah so we're animals but there is that very different thing of like we prepare, we plan. There's like a plan in place that we're going to execute. And I'm just like, sure, whatever. Go come back when you want to. He's like, yeah. So when you meld those two things together,

you know, he knows where we come from and he he adapts to. But I think sometimes- Eat before the family gathering. If it's someone's house. That's what Mike learned after a couple years. Exactly. But this one was pretty good. We did a little beach day. Everything went well. But yeah, I think that there is, and it's interesting, we probably get emails about this sometimes, people that are combining their own, you know, childhood, family of origin, culture, and then trying to make a family together. And how do you navigate that? Like, we had a very open door policy. Like, one of the questions that I asked on my intake form is like, where was your home welcome open to guests? Okay. And like, you know, other people and a lot of people, that's like a thing. That's like a thing. they really had so much privacy that their parents didn't want people coming in and out in our house. Or so structured that you're like, I don't really want people coming in and being messy or whatever. Or the whole thing, like dinner and is there going to be an extra person and do we have enough food? And, you know, so we grew up very much.

Like, there were probably. I think too open. Like there were like borders in the house. Yeah. I think people were too welcome. Little too welcome. Doors never really locked. Oh, yeah.

You never had a key. No. Yeah, that was funny. Well, there was always someone home is kind of, I remember the way I would put it to my friends. And they were like, well, that's still, you should clock the door when I'm home. That person could be murdered. Right. At any time.

So, yeah, it's, it's an adjustment. But I like it, maybe because it's my, it's like a unique kind of. I like some of, I think I'm, I still have some of it. But it's like, I don't, I think I, I think I want somewhere in the middle. Yeah. Maybe leaning towards a little bit more structure. Right. Coming from the complete opposite.

Yeah. You know, like a little bit more, okay, someone's going to come. We might want to like make sure we have bedding and a pillow. Right. Appreciate that. You know, the basics. Yeah. All right.

Well, I'm so glad you're here. This is so fun. Awesome. And should we get right into our outline? Yeah, we have some good emails. I'm excited for this. We have a voicemail today, which is always exciting. And if you want to leave us a voicemail, you can leave one.

at 646363-662-94, or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. Let's do our first overshare. I'll read it. I love this question. All right. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Thank you for the great podcast. It's very entertaining and a weekly visit to the emotional intelligence gym.

Love it. All right. I'm a 33-year-old man and started dating a woman 31 a month ago. We see each other a couple times a week. And last week got into the habit of talking daily. She's fun, funny, intuitive, and so easy to communicate with. The attraction is magnetic and we have conversations about compatibility, values, and boundaries. All is great.

But I Google love bombing and see that our behavior might check a lot of the boxes, showering each other with compliments and affection early on, professing feelings, saying that this relationship feels different than all others, and talking about a long-term future together with the caveats hypothetically or if this works out. I'm a divorce dad. It's both my nature and a product of my social circle to be more comfortable in a serious relationship than in dating casually. What is the line between love and love bombing?

Is there a mental health reason to slow down a fast-moving relationship or artificially hold back from doing and saying what feels right? Many things. Mouth says, I like you, and heart feels I love you. I love this email, not just because it's from a man and we don't get many of those. Bring them. Men, come on in.

We want to hear from you. We know you're listening. Yes. Don't be shy. Exactly. So I had a lot of thoughts. I like this question because I think this term love bombing gets thrown around a lot. I feel like it's thrown at anyone who's kind of in a hot and heavy thing.

And I think in the beginning of a relationship, that's not necessarily like a bad sign to have two people who are really into each other. Yes. Because we've gotten the opposite question, which is like, We met and I didn't really feel it at first. And does that mean like we never had the honeymoon period? So it's not going to work out because we didn't feel that like. It feels like you can't win.

Right. If you don't have a love bomb, then you're like, oh, maybe I'm going to miss having that love bomb. And if I do have it, then it feels like too fast. Everyone's overthinking the whole thing. Yeah. I feel like coming on strong is not a love bombing thing. I remember I had Googled love bombing before.

And I think a major component of it is the thing that people don't talk about at all when they're talking about it. And according to the internet, love bombing is a manipulative tactic that involves someone showering a new partner with excessive attention and affection in an attempt to gain control over them. Right. So some of it involves the things that they're saying. But I think the key aspect is this like manipulation part of it or like control. And he doesn't talk about any of that. I mean, and some of the things that it includes are compliments, which again, normal.

Gifts. Sending extravagant gifts. I think extravagant is the key word there. Wanting to spend all their time together and needing to be in constant contact. I don't know. I feel like that's in the beginning. Yeah, that's like a honeymoon phase thing. Right.

Commitment, pushing for commitment or moving the relationship along quickly. Right. Well, so that, okay. Keep going. but I'll note that. Needing to be in constant communication throughout the day. Again, I feel like the word needing, I think, is the part that's a little weird. Wanting to be in constant communication with someone that you really like and just started dating,

to me doesn't seem that crazy. Yes. And declaring love early on or talking about how they know you're the one. Right. So some of this, I think, is if you're using. So this guy that's writing in, he's the one that's feeling like love bombing, right? He's like feeling this. So by nature, he knows he's not manipulating her.

So he's not love bombing because it's not like a malicious manipulative thing. Maybe the question is, is she love bombing him? Is there something manipulative on her end? And for all of our listeners that might be in this or feeling this, I think the question is, can I trust that this Right. That's the best, I think that's the most important question.

Right. And that's like the more common thing. I mean like the term I guess love bombing is used I think by a lot of, I'm going to say women, but people. Right. To describe when someone is dating them in the beginning, coming on strong and then kind of cools off.

Right. And I think if that's, and I think that's why you feel like you can't trust the beginning intensity of someone kind of chasing you. because you're afraid that they're going to pull back. Yes. Or that I think part of it is maybe they're like, they're either trying to control you in some way

or trying to hide something by like, I'm going to make you fall in love with me. I want you to fall in love with me so quick so that when you find out this other thing, you'll already be in love with me. I think that's like a potential manipulative. Yeah. Or I'm trying to move the relationship along in intensity

so that I can isolate you from your friends and family. Right. Because once you find out something, I think there is a component of like either I have some maybe secret thing or I know that I'm like a controlling type and I want you to like fall hard so it's harder for you to get out of it. That's the fear that I think people have. And that's the thing that I think does happen.

Right. I mean, that seems like a little bit rare though, right? Yeah. Like the most intense version of it, I guess you would see on a TV. lifetime movie of like a dirty John is a classic I think example of someone you know you the divorce age starts dating someone really quickly and then they marry her because she's lonely and then they steal all her money right and you know the family keeps warning her I feel like this no that's the extreme

I think like you're saying the other option is more of like you're just infatuated with me and it's going to go away right so yes that's maybe like the more middle ground like the extreme the 10 out of 10 love bombing is like someone who's actually like trying to scam you. Right. Somewhere in the middle is maybe like someone comes on strong. They, you have, you sleep with them and then maybe they pull away and you're like, whoa. And then when you're coming out of it, you're a little angry and you're like, did this person love bomb me? Were they being manipulative by telling me they were so into me? And then we get to a certain level and they start pulling that. Right. Yes. And I honestly, the truth is there's like, Yes, I think like extravagant gifts, if they're giving you something that's worth like more than $100 in the first like two weeks.

Yeah, I think that's excessive or like that type of thing. Or the other piece that I think is important to realize is are they using, are they getting angry with you if you set certain boundaries? Like if you're not available when they call, do they get upset and angry? and cranky and try to guess, let you and make you feel bad. And that's, I think, a good warning sign. Like if they, you know, whatever it is, if you say something like I feel, I'm feeling so strongly towards you and you just say something back like, oh, thanks. Like I really am enjoying our time together. And then somehow they're like pushing. Like if they're not respecting your pace, that to me is like a red flag. Right. Just someone's like I, and that's the other thing. Like I want our listeners to be

able to enjoy the excitement of a honeymoon face. When it does go well, yeah. So it's kind of rare that it does a lot of the time. Like most of the emails that I see are like, I'm not sure or getting mixed messages. Right. This does seem like the opposite. And the way he's described, and he goes and he gives details, which I think are helpful, where he says, he says, you know, they talk about a long-term future together with the caveats.

It's of hypothetically or if this works out, which I think seems we should go on this trip if we're still together in six months. I think that's like fine. That seems tempered. Yes. Right? I think this sounds okay. I'm going to give this the green light.

I think you guys are good. I think you're just falling in love. And that's a beautiful thing. You know, everyone's so scared. I get it. We're all scared. We've all been burnt. We create words like,

love bombing as like a, you know, fear tactic of like watch out for this. But unless you're feeling controlled, unless you're feeling like if you set a boundary, the other person's going to get angry or it's like huge extravagant things, like we always talk about. Being prepared isn't going to make it that much more bearable. Like if you fall for this person and you don't in the back of your mind say, oh, he's probably like a sociopathic love bomber. If he decides he doesn't doesn't want to, or she decides she doesn't want to see you again in another month, like, it's going to suck either way, whether you're like, I knew it. I knew it was a love bomber or not. Either way, I think you're still going to be upset. So I would, unless it seems creepy or they're

using their emotions, getting angry at you to manipulate you and make you feel like, like, like I think sometimes that's a thing. Like, well, you must not be as into this as I am. And then you're like, no, no, no, I am. That's like almost. Right. Then that's almost like a sign of another personality issue. Yes. Like a heading towards a controlling abusive relationship. Right. I wonder if he fears also, because this might be a different thing. Maybe he's a little afraid that he really likes her now. But eventually, maybe like he doesn't know if it's for the long term. So he doesn't want to come off as the love bomber.

If, you know, he's really into her month one. And then this happens, I think, the most often is you date someone, you're a month in, you really like them. And then you get to like three months and you're kind of like, all right, now I really know you and I don't know if we're a match. Right. And then the fear is, this is what happens. And I think this does typically tend to be like a male, female dynamic where then he, you know, he looks like the bad guy. He looks like a liar. He looks, well, you told me you wanted to go to France with me. It's like, well, at the time, I did. You said this relationship felt different. Right. And then when you retell the story, it sounds like you're being like you were lying or you were manipulating or you were just trying to get her into bed.

But really, like, I think you were feeling those things. Right. So it is a hard line. I think everyone out there needs to realize, like sometimes relationships don't work out. And it doesn't mean that the person that's ending it is a bad person. Right. And then on the other hand of it, but like knowing that, it's like someone could say all these things to you. someone could say, you know, I could see it or I do feel like this feels different or I really,

really like you or here's a little gift. Yeah. And they could change their mind. Yes. And that's the hard part. And yes. But it also doesn't make them a bad person. Right.

Up until you get engaged or married, then like that's when you're really not supposed to change your mind anymore. Yeah. That's the difference. But it is hard. I get it. It's hard to date someone for three years or three months or however long and have them say, look, I've just realized that you're like, you're not the one. That's painful. But that's also allowed. And it doesn't mean that you did anything wrong. So if you feel all these loving feelings towards her right now and in three months, you change your mind, you heard it here. You didn't do anything wrong. You're not a love bomber. You were saying how you feel and you're allowed to break up with her in three months or six months or three years. until you're right married yeah you are and she could be upset but it doesn't mean you did anything wrong and I think that's that's sort of the crux of these dating issues is like someone could be like kind of mad at you or upset with you or be really hurt and it doesn't mean you did anything wrong

could just it just means yes it's upsetting that's like and you know I love Taylor swift but like she does this like all too well it's like you guys were dating you were really into each other. They're going to come for you. And I love that song, but it's like he didn't do any, he just decided he didn't want to date you anymore. That's it. Like, he liked you a lot and then it fizzled and that doesn't make him like a big, huge villain.

Right. Yeah. No, it's true. I mean, that's the thing. It's true. It could hurt. I think it's hard to say like if something hurts a lot, you kind of want to feel like there's a bad person there on the other end.

it. And I get that. I've done that a lot. And sometimes it helps to have like a some, it helps almost to feel, to feel that because you can direct your feelings into someone. It's easier to feel angry than sad, because sad is like weak and vulnerable and you feel a little like pathetic. Right. And when you get rejected from anything, I think, if you don't make a team, a lot of the time, you're like, well, the coach was, you know, didn't like me. Or if you get, you don't get a job or if someone, if someone fired, it's getting fired is a great example of that. like you could get fired and you could feel really bad about it without necessarily meaning that the other person did something wrong. Yes. So that I think is the bigger, the big picture lesson here

is like when someone does something to hurt you, the best thing to do is just like lean into the softer emotions rather than feeling like you have to turn someone into the bad guy because now this guy thinks he should pull back because he doesn't want that to happen to him, which which, you know, we're not going to change the culture and all of human condition, which is that we prefer to be angry than sad a lot of times. But I think that's the lesson. It's like, if you're feeling loving feelings, go for it. Right.

And if she eventually thinks, like, oh, he's an asshole because he said that, you know, he's never felt like this before. Well, you never felt like that before, you know? Right. It doesn't mean, he didn't say, I want to be with you forever. Yes. That is different. And if he's, and he shouldn't say things like that.

Yes. And I agree. Like, I do think there's a line where it's like, you shouldn't say things that you don't mean. Yeah. Never felt like this before. You could feel that and still end something. You know, I, I want you to meet my parents and then you never do it or like, then you break up with someone the next day. Like there is like a line of being tempered with what you're saying while you can still show someone that you're really into them.

Totally. And one more point on this. Interestingly, I'm working with a writer from. Cosmo in this article, it's like an extension to the three-month situation ship, like why that's so painful. And she writes sometimes after the fact, there's like a revisionist history. Like someone will come back and be like, well, it wasn't that serious. It wasn't that, like, I don't know why. It wasn't as deep as you thought it was. And she was kind of asking me, why do people do that? Like, what is that that they're like, come back and be like.

At the person on the breakup end is like, the person who's doing the breaking up is like, this wasn't that deep. Like I don't, you know, I never meant. That's the most hurtful thing. Yes. Yeah.

Is that they're kind of like rewriting history. And I was sort of talking about how there's this term in psychology called cognitive dissonance, which is like you want your beliefs, your actions, and your values to be in line.

So if you think like I'm a good person, I would never hurt someone on purpose, you need to kind of, anything that's subjective, you want to tweak it a little bit to be in sync with like the I'm a good person thing. So you may be like, well, when I said I never felt like this before, like I was talking about the sex or whatever you want to tell yourself in your mind to make an excuse for like, I didn't mean to hurt you, but I said these things and I have these actions and I have, so the belief piece is the subjective thing.

So you can kind of be like, well, this is what I was really thinking or this. So I don't think they're like totally lying and manipulating in these situations when someone comes out and says, well, it wasn't that deep. I don't think they're doing it on purpose. I think their subconscious is like, you know, just picking out the parts that make them feel like they could still be a good person. Right. So you don't think it said they actually don't think it was that deep?

I think in the moment they were feeling, I want to be. with you all the time. Like I think it was very like I we went on four dates a week because I wanted to see you four times a week. Like I really wanted to see you. And then I didn't. Right. So their interpretation is like what that meant to me was like right now I really want to see you a lot. So if I said to you, I love spending time with you. Right. That's what they meant. But then the person on the other side interprets while we were seeing each other four times a week for three months. And you said I love spending time with you. Well, that's why I think communication about what things mean to you is so important.

And it's a way to like make someone, you know, clarify that while you're still in it. Like you could say to someone if you've been dating two months and you see them four times a week. Like seeing someone four times a week to me means like that we are like headed somewhere serious. Yes. And then the other person now that's something they know. Right. And like that's. Yes.

They can't claim ignorance to that. Totally. communication in the beginning is great because it lets you know how they communicate and if that's going to scare them away then better to know so i'm a big fan of i think people are scared to communicate in the beginning because it's like too too heavy too intense i want to play all my cards right too by like letting them know what this means to me yes i want to be cool and chill yeah little chase and there is something to be said for a little chase i think if you're looking to get someone but if you're looking to keep someone. Right. That's true. That's a different kind of relationship.

Well, you're off the hook. Lots of stuff. We think you're fine. Do it. Yes. And if you're listening to this show, you're probably not a love bummer. If you're thinking about if you're a love bummer, you're probably not a love. Yes, yes. All right, let's do a betchaicist. All right, I'll read this one. Okay, cool. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana, love the pod and appreciate all that you do. I'm going to jump right in with a little background. My husband, 42, and I, 35, have been together for 12 years, married five, and we have no kids. My husband's a great guy who's really been there for me throughout our relationship. He's dependable, kind, and makes me feel safe. That said, our sex life has dwindled with time, and he rarely initiates. We've done couples therapy on and off throughout our relationship to keep

lines of communication open, but have been out of it for about six months since our therapist switch practices. Now, getting to the main question. I recently accidentally saw him, I accidentally saw him looking at half-naked women on his Instagram explore page. In a nutshell, he was sitting on our back patio scrolling on his phone when I happened to look out an upstairs window of our house with a telescope. We added that part. He didn't know I was watching, but I saw lots of bouncing boobs and bare butts all in a span of a few minutes. It left me feeling badly about myself and like I'm not attractive enough. It also made me worry that his mind could be wandering down the path of cheating.

I'm wondering, should I bring it up to him or let him know I saw and that it made me uncomfortable? Or should I leave it alone and respect his privacy? Another thing I'll add, if I'm being totally open and honest, is that I watch porn on occasion, so I feel like a hypocrite calling him out. I honestly believe porn and masturbation are a different type of pleasure than sexual intercourse. but I'm not sure what category to put casually scrolling half-naked Instagram hoddies while eating dinner. Could the Instagram Explorer page just be that addictive? Anyway, aging and keeping less alive and the long-term relationships is hard,

but I love my husband and hope to be in it for the long haul with him. Please help, sign a betch who's feeling like she's not enough. All right. Another great question. Great question. I love the part that she put in there about like, I think we have different sexuality. There's like the masturbating solo sexuality and then there's like the intimate making love partner exploration sexuality. And she did a good job of kind of bringing that out into this question. Totally.

And I think people link them a lot. They think that one means something about the other. And I do think a lot of the times they are distinctive and they are their own form of getting off. Right. Totally. Although sometimes I think they are linked because there is a thing where if you are watching lots of porn and you're masturbating a lot, it can affect the amount of stimulation that you need when you're with an actual real life person. Right. That's not like an oily bouncing butt like you might see on. like it sounds like whatever she saw him looking at is not just like a hot model and a bikini. It was like designed to be extremely sexual, you know, like not just like, oh, there's another

attractive woman. Like I would almost be more upset about him looking at like one person, one person or even like people that were just regularly dressed or like in a bikini or like a normal. versus like she's saying like bouncing boobs. Like it almost looked like it was like... It seems more like porn. Yeah, right. Like a very sexualized version of like random breasts.

Right. Versus like here's this woman that like I would actually crave to be married to this person. Yeah, I agree. I think it's it doesn't seem, I wouldn't be like as insulted seeing that than seeing the other things. especially she says she watches porn. Right. It seems like he's just doing it a little publicly, I mean, in her mind. In his backyard privately while she was upstairs.

I mean, but yes. It's like it's like it's not like he's in the bat. Like he's opening it when he's alone, actually masturbating alone. He's like casually looking at it at dinner. Yes. But again, like I don't think she should call him out on it personally. I think that feels like a little bit of an invasion of privacy. And he's not technically doing anything wrong.

I think this would only kind of serve to shame him. But can she bring up, I think, the actual issue, which she says the sex is dwindling. And to me, this is more of a symptom of that than, you know, like, she's upset about this because I think the sex is probably not what it used to be. And now she's a little paranoid or worried that it's going to lead to something worse. Yes. So it's not a bad thing that she saw it, especially if it helps her.

have this conversation with him. Yes. And I do think the other thing about Instagram is like, you click on it one or two times and now it's like in your face. So that's what makes these things like so addictive almost. It's like, you know, you know, you'll talk about like kitchen cabinets. And if you, right, they're all click on one kitchen cabinet, all of a sudden you're like being bombarded with kitchen cabinets. So if he clicks on one bouncing boob pick, it's like all over the place right on his feed. So I think that does make it. seem like it's like he's doing it all the time. You're not looking at kitchen cabinet. It's like all the time. But if you do it two or three times, that's what you're being fed.

So she can rest a little bit maybe with that. Right. Do you think she should bring it up? I mean, I'm torn on the bringing it up. I do think they need to talk about it in some way, shape, or form. So I think if she wants to just bring up, we haven't been to therapy in six months, maybe either we should start having those conversations at home or maybe we need to go back and find someone else. I think it's the fact that he's not initiating. That's what's bothering her. It's not even like, you know, when we have sex, I'm not, it's not satisfying me or we're not having enough of it. It's like there seems like there's a shift in him initiating. And yes, it could be, like I said before, part of this if he is watching a lot of porn and I don't know

that that's exactly what's happening. But it could be like he's just gotten used to handling it himself. And so he's not really, and they've taken six months off, he's not really, you know, thinking, like he's getting a lot of his sexual stuff out on his own, which isn't the healthiest thing to excess. So I think she probably does need to address some of this with him. That she saw it? I don't think it's the worst thing. She wasn't, she didn't like go through his phone.

She did kind of, you know, and she, but I think she should fess up on her own end, too. Like if she's going to bring up, she should kind of like, she said, she watches porn. Right. Not to, like you said, it's like, you don't want to shame him by being like, I saw you looking at this. And she could say, look, I watch porn too and I masturbate by myself also. I don't think either one of these are wrong, but I would feel better about both of them if we were being intimate with each other more off. Right. And I think she could say her fears too, which is like the vulnerability aspect of it to say,

if she does bring it up, I saw this. It got me like, I am a little like, made me feel a little bit scared and insecure that you, you know, that because you're not initiating, that I'm worried that you're looking elsewhere. Right. Right. And yeah, I think they should have this conversation. It's not easy, but I think they'll feel much better once they have it. I really do.

And I think there is to an extent. do think you can be doing these things in excess. So if he is doing it in excess, which we don't really know, it might just plant the seed of like, maybe I want to take a little break because it is there is something that happens where when you're getting these like extreme sexual images and then you see your wife walking around like in her nighty with like her hair, whatever, with no makeup on, it's kind of like it's not the same. It doesn't mean that he, if you oiled up your butt and shook it up and down, he'd feel excited too,

but you're probably not doing that, right? And I'm not saying you have to, but I just, but I do think that there, this is something that probably needs to be talked about. Yeah. I don't think it matters that much how you address it. Honestly,

I don't think you need to say you saw it or don't. Right. The only reason I wouldn't is I do feel like there's, the phone is kind of like a diary. And I get it, even if it's an accident, it just does feel like, I don't know, like you're invading his privacy,

but looking at what he's looking at. A little bit. Yeah. But she did it, right? I guess. The best thing would have been to have not done it. I think from an upstairs window, if you're looking down.

She should have said it. You wanted to see what he was looking at. That's fine. I get it. It's probably because you're feeling a little disconnected. Right. And you were like curious about something that, you know,

he was looking at like garage tile flooring, you might be like, oh, I wonder if he's interested in like redoing the garage. Like, let me get to know something that he's thinking about. You happen to not see that and you saw something else. So I do think there's like a little bit of a disconnection that's happening. Maybe it's more than just sexually. Maybe there is some kind of like an even emotional intimacy disconnection that's happening here. A lot of times they go together. So I don't know. I'll leave it to her if she wants to say. I think sometimes, just like, the truth will set you free. Sure. Yeah. Well, if he's like, especially if he comes back and he's like, I don't, I don't,

you know, everything's fine. Right. Right. Or like, it is a little bit of like an evidence of like, here's why we should talk about it. Right. And she doesn't want to like trap him either by like setting him up for a lie when he has to, you know, I think you can go either way with whether or not you let him know that you saw this. But what you could do is start off with like, I watch porn. I masturbate on my own. I feel like that's a little bit of a different thing than when we're together. But I would like to be together more often. And what can we do so that we're not just both having like completely independent sex lives?

Right. I think that's fair. And that's what I think ends up happening a lot. It's like you're both having these like private sexual experiences and it just feels like that's a disconnect. Right. And then the longer you kind of leave that unexamined, the worst it probably. gets right it might be nice for it then you could be like he could be like well what type of porn are you watching maybe I'll watch with you right and then it's like all right now we're kind of you know converging

the roads yeah um I like that all right give it a shot let us know how it goes yeah keep us posted I'd like to hear on this one I love an update all right let's do some intentions we've got a voicemail for this one roll the tape hi Jordana and dr. Naomi I'm calling to see if dr. Naomi has some intentions or mindfulness tips with my current situation. So I have a two-year-old, a newly two-year-old, and a newborn. And my toddler was very sweet, very well-behaved until she turns two, which is right around the time our second child was born. And she just, I mean, of course, like terrible twos or nothing new, but it was just like such a 180 from her regular personality. And I'm feeling really overwhelmed.

I'm a stay-at-home mom. And so it's like our newborn, thankfully, is relatively calm and low-key during the day. But, of course, she's not sleeping through the night yet. So I'm not getting a full night's sleep. And then being a stay-at-home mom with this, like, toddler who's throwing temper tantrums all the time. It's just wearing me out mentally. And to give some background, I come from a family with a lot of siblings. and my parents were very reactive and they yelled at us a lot.

And so a lot of times in that moment when I'm like overstimulated and I'm tired and my toddler is throwing yet another tantrum, sometimes I just like want to scream at her. And I give myself credit, I don't scream at her, but it's like the not yelling takes everything that I have. And so I'm trying to like be able to not only not yell at her, but also to be calm and present in those moments and be able to defuse the situation. Because it's like I'm reading a book called How to Talk. So little kids will listen.

And it's like when I'm feeling patient and calm, like in a calm moment, I can use those tips and it's really helpful and great. But then when she's throwing a tantrum, like, all I'm focusing on is like not yelling and trying to hold in my emotions. So I can't even like access that part of my brain that like knows what to do and how to handle it. So I hope I'm not rambling too much. But yeah, if you just have any intentions that can help me get through the overstimulating mothering moments and maybe some mindfulness tips, I would really appreciate it. Thank you. Oh, I want to give her a big hug. That's why I love

voicemails. I like hear it in her voice. Stress. Yeah. Yeah. This is probably like just happened or she's fresh off the heels. Yeah. Send us a voicemail when you're fresh because I can like feel your energy. Yes. you're a good mom you're trying your best you're reading the book you're like trying to do mindfulness stuff i totally get this this is not yeah and it's impressive that she hasn't screamed i feel like a lot of people yes kind of like would especially no one else around your kids are still that'll wait a couple years sometimes it's easier not to scream at like a small child because they're like so clearly right you know not in control of anything but

Yeah. So imagine it's like particularly hard. This is probably the hardest phase of anything that you'll have. I mean, you had two kids. Right around this same thing apart. Yeah. So I had like an 18 month old and a newborn and you're tired and they both need so much all the time.

And when things are going well, it's like I got this. It's great. And then when she freaks out. So when the older one is flipping out, I think there's some things you can do to make it not to just kind of be like, oh, this is just the same way like if your newborn has an explosive diaper, right? It's kind of like, all right, this happens. It's like a thing that newborns do. They have poop and it goes all over the place. Sometimes when there's like a misbehaving child, especially like if it's in public, there is this feeling of like this is something's what's wrong with my kid or they're having, like there's there's you know they're not well adjusted or people are going to judge my parenting or people are going to be looking at like even yesterday I went to the pool my kids were just bickering and fighting and like I was with some old friends and um their mom and like there's this moment where you're

like okay my parenting is like going to be it's like on display right now right like how are you going to handle this like are you just going to ignore it and then you think oh there she's just letting her children act like animals. Or if you discipline them, then she's like, oh, my gosh, she's yelling at them. Like, no matter what you do, it sort of feels like there's going to be people have like an opinion. Either way, yeah. But I don't think they really do.

I think most people get it. It's hard. However you handle it. You ignore it. That's one strategy. Right. You get involved. That's another.

But I think if there is a part of her that feels that's like worried about the judgment of how she handles these tantrums, I would like try to be mindful. of that and aware of that and like let that slip away because that's not you're doing the best you can sounds like you're a great mom um my advice to her is this she sounds like she has a mindfulness practice or she's trying to and i've done this with my kids and it really works i just you know it's you sound weird so it's hard to do in public because but like you kind of or i kind of will like do my mindfulness out loud in front of my child as I'm relating to them. So I'll be like, I feel like yelling right now too. I also need to take a few deep breaths. I'm going to take a few

deep breaths. And you're just like doing your mindfulness and you're walking yourself through it out loud, even if they're not joining you. Even if they're not joining it. Because they're on the floor, they're kicking and screaming. There's not much you're really going to do about it that moment. And the only other strategy is just letting them finish their, make sure they're in a safe place and let them finish their tantrum. Right. So the absolute best thing you can do is really narrate and model your own mindfulness practice of like, I'm going to smell the cake. I'm going to blow out the candles. And even if they're not even list, I think. that the kid may stop as passerbyes would as well and be like what is happening here this is

like an odd thing to see right someone just like being very calm in the midst of like a crazy tantruming child and like narrating their steps of mindfulness um i really think it's gonna help because first of all the most important i mean it's more it's less weird than if you're screaming at them i feel like that always gathers more attention and we don't even know if this is happening in public or not. I don't know. Probably happening in her house. Yeah. Newborn, I guess. And if it's happening in your house, I think it's great for you to, because

then you allow yourself, I think what she's trying to do is she's trying to think, she's reading this book that's helping her think of like the best way to address her child or like speak so the child will listen. And I think she's so worked up that she's not able to like have the clarity of thought to do that. Right. It's like when you practice anything and then it comes time to use it and you're like, oh, I'm actually way too activated to remember. I was taking a tennis lesson the other day and like, you know, you do all your practices with the right swing. And then he starts hitting you balls and you're like, well, I'm in the moment and I'm just going to like get it over however my body wants to get it over. Yes. Yes, exactly.

A hundred percent. Whatever I feel like I need to do in the moment. You're not like thinking about the correct stroke or form. And that's why even for tennis, maybe you could use this. Like if you kind of narrate the steps. Right. Like, okay, elbow back. I don't know, whatever it is. You know, elbow back and wrist straight. And, you know, you're kind of like talking yourself through it.

Sometimes it helps you to like rewire your brain out of your natural tendency, which is to yell if you have a tantruming child or for you to like, you know, spasticly. I didn't say spasta. It is kind of spastic, yeah. You know, contort your body weirdly, yeah. So I think if she can kind of narrate her way through this, she's reminding herself, okay, I'm becoming conscious of the fact that I need to take a few deep breaths here. You're welcome to join me.

You know, oh, I'm watching my belly rise and fall as I'm breathing. And your child might be completely ignoring you. But I will promise you, if you're doing that, it's not going to make it worse. And even if it did make it a little worse at first, if she's used to you like leaning down and trying to talk her out of it or offering her a cookie or whatever you typically do,

even if at first she doesn't like that, I think eventually this will really help. You're just going to, I'm going to do my mindfulness right now. And part of your mindfulness is, I hear the sound of my child's raised voice. It's just a sound. Let me notice the pitch.

Let me notice the tone. And just like making it. it like a, you know, something that's happening in your world and that there's not a huge ton of meaning around it. That's what I'm saying, like taking the meaning out of it. Oh, my child hates her newborn baby. They're never going to be close. She's not well adjusted. She's not adjusting well. People are going to judge my parents. There's a sound. It's unpleasant. I'm going to breathe. And I think if you narrate it, it's a great way to teach. I like that. It's good for any kind of A little breakdown or unpleasant thing that you're hearing or finding or encountering.

Yes, the construction. This is what it sounds like instead of, oh, my gosh, we shouldn't have brought this house. Shouldn't have bought this house. It's like taking forever and what if it never and what if. Just a sound. So the intention that I wrote for her is just about that. To remind yourself in the moment, right now is the best moment to practice and model. mindfulness and say it out loud so she knows what you're doing and it's a great way to teach her

because the next time maybe she'll be like oh this is what we do when we get upset right take deep breaths and we you know uh does any kid do that yeah brooks will do that take deep breaths by the third child i've gotten a little bit better i think at like modeling that with him Like when I do like I actually do this when he gets I'll just stop and breathe and it's almost like he you know if they're not used to it they'll be like it kind of creates a space for them to pause and be like wait what's happening like you're not doing the thing that you're not reacting the way you usually do yeah and then it kind of stops them in their tracks and they see that like they actually like that I'm calmly being present with them So they have a positive association with it. So he'll, like, he came up to me the other day and he was like, I think you need a couple deep breaths. And I was like, yes, I do.

Thank you for reminding me. So it really works. It helps them have like more of a, you know, of a. I think you need a couple of deep breaths. Wow. I love that. Really? And I did.

Mindful child. You've really done it. Ah, parent of the year. Oh, thank you. I love it. Probably easier since he's just one. You know, probably it did. maybe you did a better job with him.

Yes. Because he was like, you know, the other two were a little older. Right. You live and you learn. And so, yes, this is, she's in the thick of it. Get a good hug and just do you in that moment, but like do you out loud so she can hear it. Yeah. I would imagine also it only gets easier.

Oh, yeah. This is hard. This is really hard. I remember right around this phase, I remember, and this was like I had a guilty moment about this as a parent, but I remember being like, what did we, like this was a mistake. Right. Like what did, I can't do this. Where's the nearest firehouse?

Put that, get that basket together. Fluffiest blanket. No, I really remember feeling like we shouldn't have done this. It's too soon. We can't handle it. And now I'm, you know, obviously we're thrilled. They're close in age. They're like really sweet best friends.

It's great. You'll get thrilled. it. But this is hard. Yeah, validated. All right, let's do some triggers. I'm ready. Ready. I'll read the first one. All right. Hydrodina and Dr. Naomi, I have a triggered scenario that I would like your opinion on. For context, my husband and I are in our early 30s, just got married in November, and recently purchased a new home. He is insisting that he needs to buy a new Xbox to play a newly released game with his friends. I told him, I feel like it's a waste of money. It's around $500. He claims that he needs it for his mental health and argues,

it's the same thing as paying for my gym membership. I was very triggered by him comparing playing video games to me trying to better myself by going to the gym. How triggered can I be? This is funny. This is funny. I do think he has somewhat of a point of being honest. Obviously, it's like, doesn't have quite the same physical benefits.

But she said all of his friends have this game and they're trying to play together. So in his mind, it's like a social thing. Like I'm playing. I'm going to be involved. We're like doing this thing. It's something everyone's doing together. I want to be a part of it. And so I do think it has some mental health benefits.

Is it as many or as clearly obvious as a gym membership? No. Right. Is that mean he should spend $500 on it? Not necessarily. Right. But I do think it's not like a totally outrageous point. Right.

No, I kind of agree. I think she's, you know, she probably is sort of like, I, maybe she is like, I kind of hate going to the gym. And I do it and I want like my credit that this is a thing that I don't or it's not her favorite thing to do. But like I do it because it's good for me versus like you're going to get credit for like taking care of your mental health for playing video games. Like do I get credit taking care of my mental health because I go like. Watch reality TV. Right. Exactly.

but it's a great point. And I think it's interesting because I have a lot of patients where we're kind of like, what's the line between like, what's the benefit of distraction? Is it healthy to like if you're stressed out to use distraction as like a coping mechanism? And the answer is sort of like if you're stressed at work and you're sort of at that point where you're like, okay, I've written my to do list. I'm doing all the stuff that I need to do. There's no deep grief that needs to be processed here. It's not like I'm distracting myself from a death or distraining. Yes.

So if there's, if it's just like a rumination, like if you're struggling with like ruminating thoughts, where you're not ruminating over like a loss or a grief or something that's like big and heavy that you probably do need to process, I think there is a lot of space for distraction. So like whether it's video games or wordle or reality TV or. or takes you out of your own head.

Yes. And I think it can be good to just take a, like give your mind something else to think about. So I, you know, I think there's benefits. If he's not doing it to avoid some like deep grief that he's, you know, avoiding feeling or going through, I think it is okay for him to do this.

Yeah, sounds expensive. But, you know, I think if he needs that, it's social, it probably, and it, if it's with, in moderation where he's not doing it for like seven hours a day. Let him have an act. I mean, it sounds like her issue is more with the price and she's trying to like justify him not, well, not wanting him to spend the money.

Right. Versus like her gym membership or whatever, which for the year is probably more than that. Right. And I also, it's funny. I think that like men, men are like going to dinner with each other to like talk. Right. Out their days. I do think like, and they won't, I don't know if they did bid it, but I feel like playing

these games or like watching a sports game or something like that is almost like the only way that they feel like they can like socially acceptably bond it's so true and I'll say this it's sober right I think there is a thing and women too like drink a lot together but I think men especially they're typically going to like watch a game and have beers or they're going to like you know whatever it is like do this video games is like typically a sober right activity that they're doing their bonding and they don't need to like be going out and drinking while they're doing it. So that's healthier. So yeah, I get it. The comparison doesn't have the same exact benefits as a gym membership. Right. If you can afford it. Yeah. I think I would let them have it. Let them have it. I'd give it a

two or a three. Yeah, I'd give it a three just because the comparison is a slightly annoying. Right. But other than that. Yeah. I mean, is it one probably is video. game, I would say, do gym membership have a longer term better health benefits? For sure. Sure. But is the argument totally insane? I don't think so. Yeah.

If he said physical benefits, that would be crazy. Right, right. All right. Let's do another one. I'll read the last triggered here. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. My friends and my partner have different opinions of what I should do in this situation, and I'd really appreciate your input.

for quick context my mom and dad got divorced when I was 12 my dad remarried a couple years ago I like his new wife and we get along but our conversations are always very surface level I wouldn't say we're emotionally close but that's fine because we're pleasant and friendly here's the thing though every single holiday without fail she sends me and my brother a text saying something along the lines of hey guys insert holiday here is coming up and I want to make sure you remember don't forget to send you your dad a text and get him a gift. Here's some gift ideas. Insert gift ideas here. Thanks. I'm almost 29 years old and my brother is 24. We're very close to our dad and have never once forgotten a holiday or

birthday. In fact, usually by the time she sends these texts, I've either already planned what I'm going to get him or have ordered it already. These texts really upset me because it feels like she's implying that we're forgetful children, which couldn't be farther from the truth. I never know how to respond to these messages and usually either say already on it, thanks for the reminder, or ignore them all together. What I really want to say is stop sending us these messages. We have never and will never forget a holiday, even before you came along to give us these silly reminders.

How triggered can I be? I agree this is annoying. This is annoying. I would be annoyed by it. I think it's funny. She said she usually replies already on it, thanks for the reminder. By saying thanks for the reminder, she probably thinks you appreciate it because you literally said thank you for doing it. Yes.

So my initial response would have been somewhere in between those two things. Yes. My initial response would be like, yeah, we're on it where like we never forget Dad's birthday. Don't worry. Don't worry. We never forget Dad's birthday. Yeah, I agree. I think she needs to be a little bit more assertive.

Maybe not that assertive. Yes. Thanks. The thanks for the reminder, I definitely leave that out. She's telling her she likes a reminder. So I agree. That part, even just saying already on it, exclamation point. And just, you know what could be, I do come up with these like little passive aggressive. Let's hear it. I love it. Just to copy and paste already on it, exclamation point, like identical every single time she sends it. This is once a year, I guess. Maybe 20. twice, Christmas and his birthday. Right. Don't forget to do what is annoying, especially if you've like, it's not like you've missed every year

and the dad's so upset that everyone forgot. Like, to me, that would be the only reason. I do think she probably thinks because you said thanks for the reminder that you like the reminder. That's true. I mean, that's what I would think if someone said thanks to the reminder.

Yeah. She's being a little too soft in her response. She's conveying the, wrong thing. Right. I mean, yeah, to me, this is more triggering. I mean, I do think it's triggering just because just when someone tells you to do something you already know what to do. Yes. And there is like the stepmom child thing. It's kind of like we were here first. You're the noob. Like, know your place. Right. Yeah. So I think that's probably some of the triggering part is like we love our dad a lot. Like we don't need you.

to come and tell us like how we should love our debt. I'm the head bitch in charge. Yes. There's probably a little bit of that. Even though it says she gets along well, I think she likes this relationship. I would just be a little bit more assertive. Also like some are here are some gift ideas.

It's like if I want gift ideas, I'll ask you. I wonder if she ever asked her or if she like who opened the door on this. I guess it sounds like she, the stepmom completely opened the door on this. whole like dynamic. So yeah, I would just... She does sound a little annoying to validate you. Yeah, it's annoying.

I would be definitely triggered by this, but I think you're playing into it by saying thanks for the reminder. So definitely remove that. Right. Birthday time. Yeah. And if she wants her to never do it again, she could say,

we're on it. We actually like every year we already have a side conversation where we talk about this. Yes. Don't worry. We've never forgotten a birthday. Yes. Yeah. I think you could say something like that. Even before you came along to give us these silly reminders. Yeah, something's just in between these two. I agree. I'd give it like a four and a half. I think

it's kind of irritating. Yeah. That sounds about actually right to me too. I would give it. I'll bump, I'll bump it up to a five just because it's like cons the same thing every time. And, you know, how does she say? I want to make sure. don't forget. Like, yeah, it's annoying. Right. Again, unless there was like a previous history of you guys forgot to give him a gift and he was very upset about it, which doesn't sound like the case at all, according to what she's saying.

I think this is a her issue. Like, I think either maybe her kids forget or there's something going on on her end. Maybe she's just super like controlling or like planner or planning. Yeah. And she just wants to. Maybe she wants him to have like sometimes. I wouldn't tell someone else's kids to get them a gift. I know.

You'd tell them to get something like you want one. Totally. I agree. But like maybe she wants, she knows something that she wants him to have and she like doesn't want to get it for him. She wants you to get it for him. Well, that's her problem. Yes. Totally.

I agree. Yeah. I'll give this a five. It's annoying. All right. Well, that's it for us. We did it. Oh, I'm sad.

I don't want this to be over. I know. We solved everyone's issues, though. I Uber it all the way here. Wow. We're done already. You should take this. subway. I know. Have you taken the subway? I have not. I would love to see it. Brooks has never been

on the subway. You should take him. Yeah. It's an experience. It's a little scary. It'll be fun. Yeah, you don't even need a metro card anymore. Oh, how does it work? You can just use Apple Pay. Really? Yeah. You just right at the turnstile. Right at the turnstile, yeah. Oh my gosh. Now I'm definitely taking the subway. Yeah, it's very easy. You just like double, you know, like the same way you'd pay for anything with Apple Pay. All right. We'll take it home. You don't want to go for that long walk. where I gather all the pamphlets and talk to all the homeless people. It's a little scary. That's scarier, I think, going for the walk where you're interacting with people.

I'm more of a cross-the-street kind of person. Look down. Look down. Headphones on. Yes. No new friends. All right. I'm so glad you're here.

Yeah, this is great. All right. I guess we're going to have to end it here. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced and edited by Rebecca Steinberg. Guest booking by Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and everything's fine.

And send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Betches.