Oversharing - Why Can't I Commit To A Fifth Date? Ft. Jared Freid

Episode Date: January 24, 2023

In an Oversharing first, Jordana invites her U Up? co-host Jared Freid for a dating therapy session with Dr. Naomi. They walk through Jared’s dating challenges, including why it’s so hard to get past the first few dates, and where his mind goes to when it’s time to end things. They talk about his dating habits and history, how his role as a podcast host affects his decision-making, and whether or not people are as upset about ending things after 3 dates as they are after 3 months. Plus, Naomi tells us how the trauma of past relationships inform our decision making with new people. Finally, they rate a pair of Triggered submissions about an inconsiderate mom and people who refuse to pronounce your name right. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Trinana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And we have a very special guest.

We had floated the idea of having Jared on this show. I'm sure you've, if you're listening to this now, I'm sure you've already seen it on the description. And if you don't know who Jared is, it's kind of weird because I feel like that's, you know, we discussed the U-Up show a lot on here. We discuss you. But Jared is my co-host on You Up, and we're very excited to have him on the podcast. Stand-up comedian, extraordinaire.

Welcome. Thank you for having me. I am a fan of the show, so it's very exciting for me to see, you know, how, you know, the other family works. You know, I'm sharing. a co-host. This is like going into, you know, your mistress's home. This is, this is,

this is. That's very funny way to play. Yeah. Yeah. What do you guys talk about without me? Yes. Right. So I know it's exciting to be here.

I, you know, I'm, as even though that we talk about like dating and relationships and, you know, we always kind of get analytical about, you know, I'm, you know, admittedly not an expert in any of these things. I am talking out of my ass all the time. So it is nice to be here with you, Dr. Naomi, a professional. And it is, I feel out of my league.

So I'm happy I'm here. No, I'm excited. And, you know, I, I am a subscriber, a benefits, you up with benefits subscriber. And I feel, I love the conversations that the two of you have. Like, I, you know, I think that you really, there was one in particular. I'm not going to remember. what it is right now. But you guys were like therapistsing each other and I felt like you were really giving each other some great feedback and you know, I think you guys have it. You have, you know, you ask good

questions and you, you know, you dig in and there was one episode that I was listening to and Jordana, you were trying to help Jared with some of his struggles and I really think that you ask great questions. So I love what you guys are doing too. So I'll put that, I'm a fan.

You're a fan. We're all fan. Serapist approved. That's right. Dr. Naomi, before we jump into, you know, exploring Jared's dating issues, you have another group coming up, right? So let the audience know about the group where they can find it, all that. Totally.

I'm really excited. So I'm starting a new mindfulness-based interpersonal relationships group. So that's going to be meeting on Wednesday mornings at 9.30 Eastern. So if anyone out there is interested in learning a little bit more about mindfulness and kind of how you can take that into improving some of your interpersonal relationships, this group is awesome. It's just, I mean, a group I've said this before is one of my favorite parts of what I do because it's not just me. Everyone gets to kind of call each other out and get lots of opinions. You get a lot of validation, people that are going through similar struggles as you, and sometimes you get people who have been through a similar struggle are on the other side

that can offer some helpful insights. And just the group dynamics are a really cozy place to explore what's going on. I love that because sometimes you might have a lot of great friends, but if none of them are kind of like going through the same sorts of things as you, you might still feel kind of like isolated. So it's great to have these targeted groups about like things that people, you know, they all want to talk about. It's already like vetted for your interest in this subject. So totally. And the confidentiality piece is huge because you, you know, there is still that fear.

You tell someone in your friend group and maybe they slip up and tell someone else. And, you know, now it's kind of a topic of conversation, which never feels great. So everything's totally confidential, which is a cornerstone of how it works too. So if anyone out there is interested in getting their feet wet and group therapy, shoot me an email. Um, Ooh, I was going to do, I was going to unveil my new Gmail address. Oh my God. Wow. I was, I was just about to say, anyway, throw them the Yahoo address. You can't forget it. But I'm so glad. I don't think, I don't think I have it. You don't have it yet. Okay. Wow. Okay. I mean, I have it. Still embarrassing. Still embarrassing. Yeah. I have it.

Next time I will get it to you. It's, um, I don't remember what it is right now. But you can hit me up old school, nostalgic typing in that Yahoo. It's Dr. Naomi at yahoo. com, D-R-N-A-O-M-I at Yahoo.com. Don't feel shame. It's okay. And that's how you know it's going to be anonymous or confidential because this email is so old school that you couldn't even get it out to the world if you wanted to. I have a Gmail. I'll find it. Next time there will be a Gmail. You've heard it here first, 2023. That's your your Gmail year. And speaking of therapy, let's get into some quasi three person group therapy with Jared. I thought it would be fun to sort of get another,

get a second opinion on those same issues that we talk about on benefits. Wouldn't it be funny if this wasn't, we weren't even putting this out, this was just my way of getting you into therapy. Right, this is it. We're going to do an episode. And then you just get a Venmo request at the end of the episode from me. This isn't covered by insurance.

So we decided not to release it. And it's like that Creed Thoughts episode of the office where they, you know, they open just like a word document and he thinks he's like posting it to the internet. Right. If another bubble pops up on Zoom with my whole friends and family that have been brought together, then I'll really get nervous. Like a big intervention. Yeah.

We're all here because we love you. Yeah. Exactly. But no. I think that this is going to be a really interesting episode. And I think like, I guess I could let Dewey, I'd let you take the reins on this one. But I think we're, and correct me if I'm wrong,

but I feel like what the big interesting thing to discuss would be would be like, what's holding you back from going on more than one date with a person? That at least for me seems like sort of like the gist of your struggle. I guess the gist of like what I've been going through dating-wise has been like, I'm going on like a nice, having a nice time on a first date and like and going, okay, what next or, you know, and then going, you know, I guess I see eye to eye with like a lot of the emails you guys get where I'm like, why aren't I getting this like, and maybe I'm not a person who gets that, but this like hit over the head of like, you got to pursue that road.

I'm almost like sitting in front of a, and we talked on the last You Up with Benefits episode that it's not even out yet, but just about like, and the description of like being presented with detours. Like when someone tries to fix you up, they're like, you can go down that road. And you're like, I've gone down that road.

I'm not even excited to walk down that road. And you're like, even first dates, you're just like, okay, that was a fun time, but do I want to go down that road that could end up being a dead end? You know, and I described these people as dead ends, and it was like, it does sound bad. But it's not, but it's just the idea of like having to, you know, I think a lot of people who are single, especially as they move into their 30s, they get into this like, oh, I don't want to do that again. I've already played those levels of the video game and it was hard to like back out of those levels of the video games and like start from the beginning.

And I think like every, you know, the fear of starting from the video game. the beginning, I think is like seen differently male, female, maybe, but the, the, the sentiments the same is like, you know, maybe I think a lot of women stay in relationships with someone that they're just okay with because they're like, I don't want to start this again. And I think a lot of guys don't go forward. Yes. Because they don't want to have to end something again. Yes. And that's like, and I only know that from the emails we get in just my own personal experience. So I think that's where I'm at if I was to speak, you know, for someone who's connecting with me on a larger level. Right. So let me ask you this question. What have your experiences been like? Because we talk on

oversharing all the time about how your emotions kind of live in your body. You don't even notice it. But like there's something that's going on in your body, whether it's like a little nauseous feeling or a tense feeling or a that then tells your brain like back away. This is. This is not, this doesn't feel good. Like when people say trust your gut, like literally, it's like a feeling that you have in your actual, you know, stomach or your intestines or whatever that leads your mind to go a certain way. So I guess my question is long-winded, have you had experiences in untangling yourself that have

been painful or that have been, you know, I use the word traumatic lightly? but like being in a relationship and finding it hard to get out. Any time I've ended something, no matter how small the relationship is, it has been like guttural. Like any time. Like, and I'm not even, I'm not even thinking of one person. I'm thinking of legit. I'm thinking of like so many scenarios of like you're about to go into someone's apartment to be like I think I got to end this.

And like you're about to knock on the door and you're like the minute I knock I have to keep going. And it's like and and you have that like, ugh, I'm going to knock. I'm going to knock. And then you do. And then you're like, hey, we got to talk. And you're like, oh, you know, like even just saying, hey, we got to talk. So like literally right now as you're describing it, what are you feeling in your body?

Oh, awful. Awful. Because you're like disappointed someone. Like I, you know, I do sense in myself going on, you know, like being a good date. you know like i i do sense of myself being like you know i i think it goes back to like you know just do the right thing you know and i think in dating that's kind of like hurt me a little bit like just do the right thing like be a mensch is like goes back to like just you know just fake it get through just be you know and i think and not that i'm on dates faking it but i do you know if

you go on a date and you do the right thing and you do it right thing and you do it right And then it's like, well, what about the second date? That was pretty good because I'm always going to be mediocre at worst. You know? Right. And so like even like sending a text, and I've done this with Jordana, like how many times have I been like, is this the text to send? And you're like, this doesn't even matter. This person, you went on one date.

Who cares? Oh, like an ending at text. You're talking. This is all right. Right. This is, I mean, even from breaking up to like a relationship to sending a text to someone that like after a second date equally hard to me equally I mean not equal but the same yeah the same taste feeling yeah honestly I know it sounds crazy but like take a second and like literally physically

in your body as you're talking about this what are you not in your mind not your emotions but like in your physical body what do you feel like I guess way down you know like if I'm to think of it physically like like when I get when I get the text back like no worries totally understand I feel like this like like like I could glide away lightness right right like I um and and I know this so much of this is ego and I may maybe I should let go of that because I'm like you know it's almost like I don't want to be that person who's the ego filled person who I know this person is going to be okay no matter what the scenario you know like I know that inherently, but it's also like I do, I'm admitting to, I don't feel great that I feel that way.

You know, I don't feel great that I feel that lightness. I feel like a bad person. It sounds like you've probably had a couple that have gone poorly in the sense that you feel like you've negatively affected somebody. Or there's some lingering, you know, if everybody was saying, no problem, best of luck, I don't know that you'd be feeling this way. Right. I do you feel some guilt when it comes to like you don't want to think that you've wasted anyone's time. But I never felt that I did. Like I think I'm willing to like I think when someone tells me I've wasted their time, I'll just believe them. You know, like I'm just like yeah, I guess I did. You know, I kind of like lay down in fights. So like I think like when you lay down. You know, like, when you lay down. You know, I think like when you lay down. You know, I'm like, I kind of like, lay down in fights. So like, I think like, like, like, when you lay down. You know, down like you'll just be like yeah I guess I am the time wasteer I'll take it I'll be the bad guy just get the fuck away from it right you don't want to prolong the conversation with a separate argument about right yes yeah whatever you say I'm evil okay can I go now yeah right maybe that's where your work is you know maybe your work is in sort of like you know your truth you know whether or not in your heart

and your soul you're a mensch you do the right thing and maybe it took you a little bit longer than you wanted to to figure out that something wasn't right. But I believe you, and I think you hopefully believe yourself when you say there was no malicious intent. You weren't intentionally wasting someone's time. You were maybe figuring it out or a little bit nervous or trying to find the right way. But it sounds like there might be a piece of you that doesn't trust that, you know, that here's that voice of that woman who was really angry in that moment and said you wasted my time or who hears the voice maybe of your mother saying be a munch or do the right thing or i don't know whose voice it is but well i you know i do this um i do i do this a lot with jordanna but i do it i do this alone

podcast um and my dad listens to it and my dad has all he likes it he enjoys the show but he says that there's some episodes he's like you're double talking you know you're you know he's he points out that like you're not take a take a position he's like you're you know you can he and he says it is interesting that he's like he can tell that I'm straddling so that I don't offend anybody and I do and I and I do that purposely because I do think it's a more interesting conversation especially if I'm doing an alone podcast where I'm talking about a predicament I've been in. I can, I do understand someone seeing me from this angle and thinking badly of me from this angle. And I think if, because I do that a lot, I think like, I kind of just go, oh, you must be right

from that angle. You know, like, I don't really take that strong handed. I'm right. You know, like, no, I think I'm right. I don't care what anyone else. thanks, go fuck yourself. Like I, I, you know, I, I don't know if that's even a healthy way to go. Because when I see that in other people, I'm like, that person seems like an idiot to me. But a little bit of that might be better than none of them. Right. Well, it's got to be hard.

I would imagine dating and being, you know, having these, all these platforms that were, and people just having access to you through DMs and giving their opinion on everything you say and every, you know, women that you date get to hear. All of this stuff and your thoughts. Your thoughts. I mean, they're hearing this right now. Right. Right.

So they're the one Google, which again, I understand that. Like if I had an open, if I could hear someone talk openly. And I'm more honest here than I am on date sometimes. Okay. So that leads me to my next. Right. It's easier here because you don't, you know, I can give my opinion and I can speak. Right.

From 10,000 feet on a podcast. Right. Right. Right. It's more personal, obviously, when it's when the person's, when it's about the person in front of you. It's like, then they're not. Well, that's always kind of something that I wonder because you get so many, again, so many women listen to this show. They listen to you talking about like this struggle that you have. And yet so many women really want, I'm not saying, oh, why would anyone want to go on a date with you? But you get like so many women who are like, and maybe that's something that's kind of wrong with them because I think there's so many women who are like, I'm the person that he's. he's going to want to go on date five with. Right. How do you trust that person? Right. But you're saying,

you're saying like it's very unlikely that we're going to get to date five. And like all the women who are DMing you are kind of like, I'm the one who's going to get him to date five, which is an issue, probably had more of a podcast episode for them. That's a different story. Right.

But I'm sure. Why am I pursuing this? Right. Well, it must be just a very unique position to be in where, you know, it's like the real life meets the meta version of someone talking about their experience with you to the world. Right. And that also, like, adds pressure to it in another way where you're like, you know, bringing

someone into this world where I'd be actively talking about, like, I can understand that they would, like, you know, you have to wait on that, you know, like, if I'm taught, you know, when do I introduce this person into the greater context of how I talk about dating, you know, and that's like another thing to think about that holds me back. And then I used to always, I mean, this. And again, I, I'm not confident enough to talk. Like, I always think of someone listening to me talk about this. And they're like, this fucking guy can go fuck himself. Like, I, like, I always think of someone listening to me, like, who the fuck is he? Who, you know, what, you know, like, to someone who, you know, like, to someone who's having trouble meeting someone

this sound like I could understand how I sound braggy like I don't mean to sound that way like but again now I'm thinking seven degrees away from me and it's exhausting you know like I can't defend myself to what everyone thinks of me talking about dating

like I have to just go and that's not fair to me but I do it does dawn on me and then again like Jordana we've heard from every scorned woman. Like, I've heard every,

I've heard the cries. I cannot claim ignorance. And any scorned woman who writes into us, I go, and they're talking about a guy, I go, I've done that, I've done that, I've done that. So I don't think I'm like a hero in any of this. I'm not professing myself. I'm going, I get what that guy's doing.

And, you know, I think the power of you up is to give a little bit of, to like give a palatable. response that he can't really give in that, you know, right, you know, so, but I, I'm speaking, and I say that all the time, right? Like, like, I'm speaking, this is going to sound icky, but let me give you what he's thinking. And so I, it's so hard because, I'll give you an example. I went on three dates with this person. We made out.

That's as much as anything happened. And we held hands. So we talked about this. Intimate, yes. It was in, and I could feel, and I know I shouldn't do this, but I, and this is a lot of men get in my position. We're three dates in. We haven't been physical. I'm very attracted to them, but I'm also not sure.

So they're like, well, let's get together tonight. And I'm still sitting there going, well, this is going to. go to another place, probably physical. I mean, do we go? And then I'm in my head, I'm going, do we go out and I say to them, I'm not ready to go to the next step because I'm not sure. Like the amount of honesty I would have to give in that scenario is so uncomfortable to most people, not just me.

But I legit. So it's like, why can't I get to the fourth date? Because I couldn't just go. And I have done. this don't get me wrong like i've been in that position where i felt like man i went out on that next date even when i wasn't sure and then regretted it completely because i'm like fuck like because now the other person is more into it than they were before right i'm assuming how much they're into it and i and i try not to do that but like i could tell the person i was on this third date that's gone three

dates with i was like they're thinking i in my mind the way this could be something this could be something and you and you still you weren't a no you were like i'm not sure you're not sure you're Sure. I'm just not where they are. Is it I'm not where they are yet or I'm not where they are? I'm probably not ever going to get there. I'm probably not going to get there. Right. Because statistically you won't or because, like because the chance is lower because you're just,

you don't see it with them. I don't know. I don't know if I'm just not like giving into it or if I'm just like, like I'm putting up a block. Like I don't know if I'm not giving them. Like I did have fun, you know. we hung out three times like but I was like in there was a piece of me that was like the physical stuff won't change my mind right I wonder if her if her being into you is like a if you seeing that it's funny because our brains are like wired reactions happen so quickly you could just see this like

longing leaning like look in her eye that reminds you know you of like another person that did that, that who you then had to hurt and who you then couldn't be the good guy and do the right thing. And I wonder if you getting that vibe that someone's interested or that they are vulnerable to being hurt by you, triggers you. And then you're kind of like, you're so right because I saw that look. I did. And I was like, and I was like, uh, uh, uh-oh.

back like I bet you literally I bet you you literally had like a thing where you kind of like sat back in your chair a little bit in that right moment and I saw that look and I knew that I didn't have the same look in my and you're right I probably did scooch back and I just remember and and I was like I got a I got to throw water on this was my thought but I wonder if you're jumping quickly to if I'm not on the same level. as her right here on date. What did you say it was three? Three. Yeah. If I'm not there on date three and she is, this is dangerous. Like this is a position that doesn't feel safe for me. Instead of thinking, okay, I'm not there yet. But like if you didn't have all those past experiences, you might be like, well, maybe since it's turned out badly, perhaps in the past and you end up looking like the bad guy, your first, the fear of that overrides the potential of maybe. Right. And I get and I think a lot of times

and I'm put in this position of like if you say go, we go. And I hate that position. Like it is like like if you say relationship, we could try this. Like Jordana. That's most kind of like relationships. I feel like kind of happened that way. But the man,

because the man is like a little bit less like, I don't want in general. but a lot of the time it feels like the man is like, you know, has to be convinced to go. Or like if he's down, then we're both down. Like,

right. And that to me. Of that kind of thing. Right. And I guess maybe that's why like the, you know, the people that play a little bit harder to get, you know,

attract me more because I'm like, oh, at least it's up to them too. You know? Like, and I'm not, I'm not going to hurt them. I'm not going to hurt them.

I'm not going to. to like devastate this person. Right. And this isn't me telling, you know, it's funny because like on the podcast you're put in this position of like people are like, should I play hard to get? And I'm always like, no. Like that's, you shouldn't play games. But I'm also like, I, and I'm now sitting here going being like the game players, but

they're not playing games. I don't, you know, like I, I don't believe that. Who genuinely isn't that into you. Right. I don't want them to pretend. to not be into me. I want them to actually not like me that. Right.

Right. I want them to be disgusted by me in a real, you know, visceral way. I, I, that is, because I, I don't trust. I, I'm a bullshitter. So I understand. I can't bullshit a bullshitter. Like I know when someone is like playing games hard to get and it's really just a mask for their insecurities.

I can point that out pretty quickly. But, you know, like even that DM that I sent you, Jordana, I got a DM, this girl came in fucking hot. She was like, here are my stats. I got a big family. Here are the pictures. She sent 10 pictures. And then she's like, just tell me the dates and I'll be in New York to go on that date with you.

And I'm like, nope. Wait, you don't even fucking live here? No, no, I'm not telling you a date to get a fucking Southwest ticket to come to need. Like, just say the date and I'm in. And it's like, again, even in that scenario, I'm like crippled by the idea of like, say the date and I'm in. Say it's a relationship and we're there. Tell me we're going to get engaged and we're down. You know, say you want to go to the suburbs and we're on the U-Haul.

Like, I don't want that responsibility. And I guess that's like a little bit of growing up for me to do. I don't know. But it's also like a little bit of like, what if I'm wrong, you know? Well, yeah, I think that's the spot where if you can just like recognize that that's happening in the moment of when it's happening instead of just like letting that whole rush guide every. It's in your body. Like you let you let that whole thing guide you know you probably back off and you never talk to the person again or you send the text and you end it because it's a little easier to send it after three dates than after 30 dates you know and it's hormonal you know I don't I don't know if I spoke about this on the podcast I don't think I did but men and women there's an attachment hormone that exists in your body and for men and women that hormone is released at different times in the courtship process. And Giudana, you actually said this once, which I thought was really great. I don't know if you made it up or you got it from somewhere else, but like women kind of just want to attach first and then figure out if they like you. And men are like, I need, right. Yeah, I'll change you later. Right. I just want you to commit and then I'll figure out how to handle whatever I have in front of me. And men are kind of like, no, I want to sort, which seems more rational. I want to actually like you first and then commit. But hormonally,

what happens is for men, when you meet a woman and you're attracted to her, like this three-date woman, there's like testosterone, right? You want to have sex with her, and that's kind of what's driving it. Maybe some dopamine. She likes me. She's pretty. But there's none of this male attachment hormone, which is vasopressin, which is something that is not released during sex. So you're not going to get attached during sex. She may, which is what you're afraid of, right? She might release oxytocin after sex and then she's going to be more bonded to you. And then that's when you're going to be like, oh, gosh, now I have to decide. It's all up to me. I'm going to hurt her. But what happens with men is once you allow yourself to get to that place where you are attached, and once you give it a

little bit more time, then, as crazy as it sounds, your testosterone will drop, which doesn't mean that you don't want to have sex anymore. It just means you don't want to have sex with other women. Right. You only want to have sex with her. I believe that wholeheartedly. Like I, I, I mean, it's science, but I'm saying like, I see, you say that. I'm like, I can see that. I even said to Jordana on the benefits episode, like about like, I think I'd be, like, I'd be a very fun relationship guy. Like, I, I, I dive into that. I know that. But I, but I also know to get me to that there's like large mountain of fear i want fear and i want to fuck people and i want to like you know like and and she's hot she's hot i'm on the dating apps like all this distraction and i think

like there might be someone i i would think a lot of women listening to this might hear me talk about this and feel oddly comforted that this is like an actual it's not personal right like none of this is about like the people I've dated or the people I'm talking to on dating apps it's like hey we don't talk anymore it's like yeah there was another fucking thing that flew in front of my face like right like and that's a very honest thing I'm saying that can you know that I hope would make someone feel better in a weird way but I when you say that I'm like I totally get that like I'm Like there's all this distraction of fear and well the fear of hurting her I think seems like that's like the blinding fear for you that's the biggest thing and no you know and you know and you know and then

I think a lot of people deal with that you know I don't I don't think I'm alone you hear right do you this from men a lot yeah for sure I mean look I think in some ways it's great you're like sensitive I mean you wouldn't be able to do you up if you weren't a sensitive guy with an emotional intelligence and able to read. I think you're really reading people, their body language, their verbage, you're reading into everything they're doing. So you're very sensitive to how you're affecting people, which is great. And I don't think it's abnormal.

But I do think a lot of guys probably don't really give a shit as much as you do. Well, also, they're not in a position to have to give a shit. You know, like, I think that, and I don't, I think I'd be the same way with or without a podcast or a public platform, but... Because you have a Jewish mother guilt in the back of your mind. Right. I got a mom ready to yell at me. Yeah. I... So, yeah, I don't... It's hard.

Am I better now? It's done. All done. You know, even thinking about this testosterone thing, right? Like, where once you have sex with this woman, which is already going to give you fear because then she's going to get more attached and you're probably going to get more triggered and you're going to lean out and you can you're like writing it forward. But what I would do is if you want to work through this, right, let's just see what's actionable here in terms of like changing something you can change or do differently. I think it's,

and you're not going to like this advice, but maybe like holding off on sex a little bit longer while developing more of like that emotional intimacy piece and like seeing how that feels and riding out that wave of what if I hurt this person and maybe even communicating that to her like I have this fear I don't want to hurt you I'm still not sure and kind of getting yourself over that hump of I'm afraid if I give in and I like act like we're in a relationship and then I change my mind next week that it's going to turn out badly for me. So hormonally, not having sex will allow you to get to that attachment phase before the next shiny object kind of runs into your, because you'll still be kind of like, I want sex

with this one. You know, like I haven't gotten it yet. I still kind of want it. I think it might help you progress to that attachment phase and also just communicating your fears of hurting her and maybe getting that reassurance on the front end of like, okay, we don't have. Let's just do this. I get it.

I know you're not sure. That's okay. Or, you know, getting some reassurance from her that might take you down a notch in terms of, like, I can't lean in or I'm going to end up looking like a bad guy here. Right. And this isn't to say I'm like having sex with all these people right away. Like I, that's not really my thing. You know, like I, if I'm being totally honest, like I've chosen eating food and pizza. late at night over women more times than I can much safer they're not going to yell at you the next day

or send you a nasty text right pizza just just screams out of your asshole it doesn't really you know you know it doesn't scream at you know so but I agree with what you're saying like to me like holding off on sex like that's not even like like the the as much the issue you know like I don't it's not a lot it's almost it's almost weirdly not the issue. Right. What about talking with her? Kind of like,

I'm not sure. I get the feeling that you kind of, you know, I want to see where this goes, but like I, you know, I'm still figuring it out and maybe letting her give you a little bit of,

it's okay. I've already, well, even that person that I referenced, I've already ended that. Like I got, I was like, I got so far.

I got so far in front of it that I was like, uh-uh. I don't even want to have that conversation if I'm not. Like I would rat like I get like it's it's it's weird because it's like to me if I was having so much fun with the person, you know, I wouldn't need to have,

you know, the sex stuff I would be like, we'll get to that. I think that's sort of the, the other issue is like I don't know like it feels like to me like you never get. so excited about anyone. Like you're saying like if I had that feeling then I could then I could ride it out and see if I could like get over that thing.

But I don't get that feeling but I don't know that like you can and maybe you can you're talking. Correct me from wrong. If you can pinpoint a time when you did have that feeling about anyone not and and I'm not saying oh he's incapable of feeling excited about anyone. That's not what I'm saying. But maybe that looks differently to you. Are you kind of like, I'll know when I, when I see it, I'll know. Do you trust that? I'm playing that game.

I don't trust that. I'm playing that game and I'm never seeing it. You know, so that's, that's, that's a hard part of it too. Like when I see it, I'll know. I'll know when I see it. And when I see it, I'll know has like kind of how I lived life to this moment. And it's, um, I'm not seeing much shit. my hunch is your fear is not is not going to allow that when you see that look in her eye

that somehow you're going to get blocked and you're not going to let yourself get there so I do think in some ways and I'm not saying to I mean you're attracted to this woman I'm if everyone someone has everything I would just try to recognize that feeling whatever that is that trigger I think you get a little triggered recognize whatever that trigger is, like literally feel it in your body. Okay, I feel heaviness. I feel gut, you know, something in my gut. I feel like this thing and just like breathe through it without necessarily needing to take action on it. And see if you can find your way to the other side of that. Something about this fear of like if I pretend or if I'm not sure and I move forward and I hurt her.

where I think that maybe blocks you from creating that, you know, enough emotional intimacy to keep you connected long enough. Right. If that makes sense. It makes sense. I guess, I mean, another part of this is like, I guess, like, ending things with people that I know. If I know, I just have to end it. Like, I can't leave these, like, open tabs. And I think I do that fairly often, too.

you know, even with people that I don't feel the need to end it with. Like, right. You know, maybe you think you know, but you don't know, though. Like if you're like, if I know, then I have to end it. But maybe it's like, maybe that's, maybe listen less to that part of your brain. Because it's like, what, what, what, like, that they're definitely wrong. Like, what I'm saying? Like, is it like I'm turned off by this person or is it like I know?

That's a good question. I like your, your questions that you ask. When you say I know, like, what is it? Like, oh, I know. like I can't see myself married to this person. What is the feeling when you say you know? That's the feeling. I can't see myself married to this person.

So why would I even, you know, go forward? You know, the reasons because, like, they said something annoying or like, it's, I don't need, no, it's not ever something specific. I'm just like, I can't imagine it. But then I'm like, what am I even imagining? I'm imagining this, like, ghost of a thing, you know, like, I, but I do. I mean, you saw the special. Like, all those jokes are about looking forward and creating a reality that this person has nothing to do with.

Like, I kind of, like, look forward and I don't see it so I don't go forward. And, yeah, I don't know. And I think that's something, like, I'm not alone in doing. You know, if you talk about dating apps and what people get annoyed with, they get annoyed with things with people they've never even met. So they're extrapolating. You know, and it's kind of what you do. But you're assuming they're going to be a certain way, right? Right.

I'm assuming that this relationship will go a certain way, yeah. I just want to validate that. I don't think you're alone in any of this because, you know, I just don't want you to leave here feeling like, you know, we're picking you apart. like some kind of anomaly, you know, like there's something so wrong with you here. I do think it's very common. Let's beat his, break him open. Open his brain. Find out what's inside.

No, I totally. I get it. But, you know, the truth is, I think we talked about this at one point. Eventually, you're going to pick someone and they're going to annoy you. And you're not going to be attracted to them one day. because they don't look that good or whatever, you know, whatever it is. There's going to be some stuff there that, so it's never going to be. Well, I know that they're going to be a disgusting monster one day.

I know. In my heart of hearts. I'm kidding. In my heart of heart. Yeah. I know. And, you know, no, but I, I'm also like, I guess I don't want to believe that I'm like this nitpicking person, but I do sound that way.

but like I know that it isn't like I kind of like like like the mess of a relationship like I do like the the mess of two people that are a little fucked up and kind of carry each other through with right you know those things I understand that I I but I'm like you know again I guess it goes back to that like it feels like it's all on my shoulders to like push through or not you know like like just you know just tell like there's so many instances and it gets exhausting of like just tell me I'm a disgusting pig that you never want to love ever again or be with me and you're like I don't feel either of those I there's somewhere in the middle and then they take the middle as okay well let's see and I'm like I don't want to let's see with the middle you know right right be in love with me or chop my head off that is like the constant. And I have so many times, and again,

this goes back to like be, be a mensch, be a good guy, be nice, where it's like, well, do you, do you hate me?

You go, no. I think it's like be in love with me or chop my head off after three months, not after three dates. Like I don't think I would be demanding like, be in love with me or chop my head off on date, on date four.

Like that seems like it. realistic expectation on the other side. After three months for you to say, I'm still figuring it out or after six months I don't really know. Then yeah, maybe I would prefer I deserve someone who would know by that point. But I don't think like

most people are demanding that. No, I know. I agree with you. They're not demanding that. But here's where like where it comes to this like what Naomi was talking about with this like this guttural feeling. I think in my 20s I was I told you Jordan, I was like, I would always get in 10-month relationships, you know? And I think the timeline kept creeping back as I got older.

As, you know, like, and shorter and shorter. Yeah, shorter and shorter. If I'm to self-diagnosed of this, like, when does this stomach punch start? Like, maybe 10, you know, 27, it would start at like six months, you know. And then at 30, it starts at, you know, you know, three months. And then at 37 after, you know, a long relationship that ended with a breakup, that ended with a move out, now it's at three dates.

Yes. You know? Yes, that fear center of your brain, that, that like protective piece is getting more efficient, you know, that protective piece of like, okay, I see this forward. I see what's happening. It's like if you swing at pitches that are coming 100 miles per hour and you do that every day for a week you're going to get really fast. Eventually you're going to hit one.

Right. Because you're going to react so quickly that you're going to get it. So I think that... Swing early and earlier, yeah. Right. So I think that, you know, that I hear... That's actually makes perfect sense and is kind of an argument for maybe like breathing through that gut punch for a second.

If everything, you know, like, if everything else seems great, you know, because I think sometimes you're... You can't trust your own brain. You can't trust your own gut feelings. I know everyone likes to think that like you can just like trust your gut. And yes, sometimes if you're in a dangerous situation, sure, but I think with something like this where you've you've been on the bad guy side of this, not because you've done anything wrong. I'm sure. Right. Like I'm sure, you know, you seem like a great, nice, kindhearted, sensitive person. I don't think that you're a bad guy, but maybe you've been perceived that way by an angry, hurt woman. And you've internal. some of that and are now acting very quickly to prevent that from happening. So my only advice here is to see if you can have that feeling without reacting right away or feeling like you need to make a decision or you have to act on a decision because you have that feeling. And maybe just seeing if you can breathe through it a little bit, you know, do some meditation or yoga or go for a run and go on, you know, just kind of and it might happen again at the next date, especially if you

feel like she's starting to fall for you, I'm sure that's going to trigger you a little bit. But there's nothing giving yourself the green light that it's okay to end something. And this is what I talk with a lot of my patients about. Until you're married, you can end it at any time for any reason. You can end it six months in. You can end it three years in and you didn't waste anyone's time. She could have broke. If she's not happy, she could end it.

if she wants it to move faster than it is moving, she can end it. There's nothing wrong with you deciding six months down the road this isn't the right person for you. That doesn't make you a bad guy. Right. You're down the road, whatever it is.

Unless you're standing in front of all your friends and family and saying, I promise to love you forever. Right. And I have it in writing. And there's a legal document. And even then people get divorced. You can always change. You can always change your mind.

That's like sort of. of the thing about like the society that we live in but like I think it's obviously like higher I can understand the higher stakes fear of that fear of that but I agree with her like like you can feel angry and sad and mad when someone breaks up with you that you thought you were going to marry but it doesn't mean that the other person is a bad person in fact it means they're a good person because they didn't just do something that you because you asked them to do it and they didn't want to do it right well I'm I'm truly flattered that Naomi thinks I look like someone who would go for a run to calm themselves down.

Or yoga. Or yoga, yeah, right. Just slap on those lulu lemons and do some yoga to breathe it out. You work out in the rom-com field. I'll go to the rom-com field, yeah. No, but I agree. I think this is like an exercise for me to like give a shot to. Like I need, obviously give a shot,

but I need to try and breathe through these things. And I think also like, you know, it's funny, like my brother even said this to me recently. He was like, you know, you're either dating every night or you're cleaning out house. Like it's always the case. Right. You know, and that's to the point of not going forward with anyone. It's like these dates are like all easy. Their first, second dates.

their first meetings. You don't owe anybody anything. You can make out on a street corner and feel good about going home and click your heels. And then you get to those. And then the other side of it is like, oh my God, I got these four people

that want to go on this fourth date. And I don't really know how I feel about any of them. So let me just get rid of them. So I got to kind of breathe through some of this. I think also dating less people at a time might be good. Like fewer people that you, you know, you don't have to go on a first date with everyone. Right.

Any other parting advice? Do you feel like you could do that? Could you breathe through the third date to go on the fourth date? I can try. You know, you have to do it. And even like a mantra, like telling yourself, like, I'm not, you know, I don't know what you could tell yourself, but like you're not doing anything wrong. If you decide a week later or whatever that you don't want to. date this person, you can break up with anyone at any time. That's okay. And I think just reminding

yourself of that might help you kind of breathe through and say, I get it. If it's a definite no, it's a no. But if it's an I don't know, then you know, you're not doing anything wrong by spending the time to check it out. Right. Allow yourself to work through and I don't know instead of just ending an I don't know before. Right. Yeah. Because I think for you and I don't know is more, And for a lot of guys, and I don't know, is more complicated. Like emotionally, trauma, past experience. It's not just, I don't know. It's I don't know.

And I'm predicting this is going to go away that's not because that's how it's gone in the past. So I'm predicting that forward. So now the fear is overriding the potential, you know, the possibility of this. Right. I mean, that's exactly what it is. like that that speaks to me you know like like you're not yeah the the fear takes over and I don't know every time right so maybe next time you're on third date and you have that urge that triggered urge to just to just send her that tech that well-crafted text that you probably have in your back pocket

from me that I've written you text Dr. Naomi and you say I want to end this thing it's probably not and maybe you can uh you can uh you can give him a meditative intention i'll help you breathe you breathe through a meditative intention i would like that yeah well right we'll craft you an intention too that'll that would be good i don't know if you listen to the uh yeah yeah i know i like the intentions oh you have an intention you know yeah i mean on top of your head yeah i think something along the lines something that would free you of this burden that you carry of of of not not hurting people, you know, or of not, of having to end something. Like just, you know, I intend to choose possibility over fear, something like that. You know, I intend to intend to

open my mind to the potential and, and breathe through the fear. Something that's going to allow you to kind of take that fear of looking like the bad guy, hurting somebody, letting it go on too long, maybe, you know, whatever that entails. And just like quiet that and free yourself of this guilt or even something about I can even as simple as I can end something with someone at any time and I'm still a good person. You know, like just giving yourself that freedom that you don't have to decide. There's no time limit where you have to decide if you want to marry someone by the fourth date or even if you think there's potential to marry someone by the fourth date. And it doesn't make you an asshole.

Right. Right. And anyone can always leave you. They always have that power. So it's like you don't have to think of everyone as a victim. Mm-hmm. Right. They're not getting what they want.

Right. And then you come running back. Right. Sprinting. Just be honestly disgusted with me. That's the best way to lock you in. Should we do a couple trickards? I'm down. Yeah.

Oh, I feel relieved. Do you feel good? I feel good. I,ish. I, it's probably believe, relief we're going to stop talking about you for a second. Yeah, right. Exactly.

That's the relief. Let's talk about these other crazies. It's like when a serial killer donates their brain to science. And then we're right. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm not evil. No,

you're not evil at all. All right. So we're going to play some triggers. Jared's favorite. part. I know you always, you would, and when we're recording you up, you always have a, have an opinion on these. So I'm excited for you to play with us. I have so many thoughts on the triggers. It is, they're so good. They're so like, meaty. I like how real they are. Cause like, you know, when we first started doing Red Flag deal breaker, a lot of them were like, and he wets

his pants. And you're like, that's not real. You know, like, these are like juicy. These are real for sure. Yeah. Yeah. All right. And we're going to rate them. I'm excited. We're going to rate it with me. Okay. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana, big fan of the podcast. I wait patiently every Tuesday to be able to listen to it the minute it comes out. Thank you. I have a situation for the triggered segment. My partner and I live very far from both our families. We are talking 20 plus hours on the plane far. That's pretty far. A few months ago, we both flew back to my hometown for a family wedding. We were going to stay about two weeks there before flying back. When I arrive, I realized my mom hasn't taken a single day off to spend time with us. My mom, was one to two years away from retirement and I could and could retire at any moment and has lots of leave available over six weeks a year. How triggered can I be? I had to ask three times before she finally took one day off. My partner and I both took more than two weeks off of leave to visit and spent over $3,000 on flight tickets each. Keep doing the Lord's work with this podcast.

How triggered can she be? What do you give it? I mean, I personally, I think this is pretty triggering. I mean 20 hours on a plane two weeks of whatever it was two weeks off work she couldn't take one day off I would be pretty triggered by that maybe she's like we'll hang out on the weekends there's a piece of me when I hear this I'm like you know it's funny that you're like

how triggered should I be by my mom's mental illness you know like the mom is mentally ill like she's two years from retirement she has the leave she obviously has this thing about work where she can't like this is like like a workaholic thing right

right there's something obviously wrong with her so it's like I don't really it's hard for me to take the side of the saying versus the someone with like a real issue like and how do you like negotiate someone with

an issue like I guess like my this goes back to the therapy session I had where I'm like a people please are trying to like make everyone happy i like my thought to this person would be like well did you plan any events that she had to actively turn down like did you say like here are some things i want to do like obviously you just like my mom if i'm just around is happy she doesn't need to do things right you know i just need to be she needs to feel the heat off of me you know like like that like my mom when are you coming when are you coming and then i get there

and she's like okay good you're here and then she'll leave like she doesn't hang with it it's not like she's on top of me so i can understand where this mother is going i just like that you're around and i don't need spend all day with you right what are we going to do you know like and this person's coming with no options yeah right i you know i think there's that the fine line but between like you said, is it a workaholic thing or is it just selfish? You know, like I'm just not even considering. I could see getting off a plane after a 20 hour flight, no one's home, you know. If it were, if it was like, it's selfish, what is the self, how is it selfish?

It's my question. It's just not considering her experience. It's almost like, well, this is my life. My life is going to continue as it does because that's my comfort zone. And I'm not going to consider how. it's going to affect you when you, you know, wake up in the morning the next morning after you arrive and I'm gone all day and you're just, if she was going to sit in the house all day, she could have sat in her house, you know, without taking a 20-hour plane ride.

I guess they have dinner or whatever. Maybe she has less needs of connection in that way, but I don't know. I would be triggered. You feel like you wouldn't, you probably like more space and better. I'd be like great Like well limit the I guess if she's going home Just to see her

That's a different story It's like I need to know more about like Their relationship I think to decide How triggering this is Like how close are you How like how far in advance Did you plan this trip Have you at how did you ask her

To take the day off like again Is there another Is there a plan for something that you wanted to do On that day off That's a big part of this Like if if I got home 20 hour flight and my mom was like I'll see you and had like I'd be triggered but if she was like dinner at eight we have the reservation like that's a different story to me and then you went to work yeah

I'll see you later we got the dinner at eight and we're going to go out and that's when we're going to have our like because that to me I'm like oh good now I get my day I'll go see friends from home like right I'm 20 hours away from everything I get to be in the country it sounds like that they're used to. Like I, to me, yeah, I would need to know, like, is it just them that they are working or is it that they don't do anything? If they did nothing, I would feel badly. I'd feel sad. I'd be like, do you even care that I'm here? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the main thing. It's like, do you even care? But like, again, it depends on like what this relationship is like, for me, I would love it. um like well like like my my dad needs to my my dad needs to like work out like just because i came home my dad's not going to go well i guess i don't work out today like this woman this mom

needs to go to work like like whether you think she needs to or not that doesn't matter like but is she doing anything you know that would be the right she's showing you that she cares that you're home i think an acknowledgment like you said is almost like, okay, I have to go to work today. Here's the car. Here's some things you could do or whatever. An acknowledgement of her experience. I'm not, you know, like that she's going to have an experience while the mother's at work

and kind of being aware of what that might be. I think it would be helpful. I agree. If it's like dinners at eight, here's the car. I'm going to leave it for you. Go do what you got to do. And I'll see you later. I'm so glad you're here.

Love you. Can't wait to see you. That's different than no acknowledgement of. of you're here and I'm just going about by day as if you're not even here. If it were like our mom, she'd be like, oh, you're here. I forgot you were coming. Can you clean the kitchen while I'm at work? And pick up like these few things that I need.

Right. Totally. Become a resistant. Actually, though. So a lot of it depends on like what it's like, you know. Right. I remember going home to someone's. home once and

visiting their family and was just kind of left to our own devices and I was like this does feel weird like I was like no one no one even took a moment you know like is this how many hours do we have to spend here

you know like it was a little bit of that right no one thought about like oh what I'm because there are it's I remember this in college I felt like there were other kids who like went home and their parents were so excited to see them and there was like you know know they were like making their favorite meal and doing their favorite thing and it's like we went home and it was like here's a list of shit that you need that I've been waiting for you to get home

to do it's like why would I go home right it's not fun um so yeah totally depends on the um on I think the type of relationship but I guess if if all things if she asked her asking three times I could see as being annoying and depending on how she asked her I would say this would be like a five could be a five depending on the relationship I'm on board with five all right hey Jordana and Dr. Naomi love the podcast thanks so much

I have a triggered scenario for you I understand my anonymity isn't going to be protected here but I don't care and anyone who knows me knows how triggered I am by the situation we have someone so triggered that they are doxing themselves right for my entire life

people usually mispronounce my name at their first pass my name is sari rhymes with Larry and Harry, et cetera, like Sarah with an eye. Sometimes people call me sorry. So this name is spelled S-A-R-I. Sometimes people call me sorry, and I always correct them in a kind way, as this has been the case ever since I was little.

I'm very used to it by now. When I jokingly poke fun at my parents, whose names are Robin and John, for the record, for naming me something no one can pronounce and naming my brother Alex, my mom usually just laughs and says she'll pay for the therapy. L-O-L, it's fine, and I do love my name, And I think it suits me well.

Okay. Anyway, here's the situation. I've been married for over five years, been with my husband for over a decade, and have spent a lot of time with his extended family at this point in my life. I'm Jewish and he's Christian, so we spend Christmas with them every year and see them a few other times a year as well. So now we have two kids together too. Just trying to put into some context why I'm so triggered.

So get this. His family still does not pronounce my name correctly. His mom and dad do, but his aunts, uncles, and their kids call me sorry. In the beginning of our relationship, I used to correct them, but after the second or third time, it just gets super awkward and I'm too much of a people pleaser to keep saying, it's sari, not sorry. I've even made the joke, my parents are not sorry they had me. And they still call me sorry. As far as I know, they're all mentally sane and can pronounce each other's names correctly. So what the fuck?

How triggered can I be? Jordana, what would you do if your husband's family called you Jordana like J.I.R. D. I think that's how you would pronounce this word. Dr. Naomi, same with you. Same with Naomi. I think that's pretty much how you say it. I don't know. Besides the fact that these aren't good examples. Besides the fact that a 10 out of 10 seems appropriate here, what the fuck do I do? They don't have speech impediments. So there's absolutely no reason why they cannot learn to say my name correctly. Thanks so much in advance. Sari, not sorry. You know, I relate to this because people don't know, you know, there's like Naomi,

Naomi. A lot of people pronounce my name, Naomi. And at some point, I'm just like, there's different ways of pronouncing it. If you want to call me Naomi instead of Naomi, it's really, doesn't, you know, after 40 some odd years, you kind of get used to it. But I guess she's not getting used to it and it's tweaking her. Yeah, I get called Jordana a lot. it's very elegant

Jordanna my mom my mom calls you Jordana yeah it sounds very like like uh like uh

I don't know exotic I think Jordana Madonna right right right I agree it doesn't really bother me

but I could I could see why she'd be like a little annoyed um for it happening continuously although it is like

aunts and uncles not the parents it's his extended family yeah right I guess she thinks it's rude. I am so against her. She's so annoying.

I hate people who get bothered when you fuck up their names. Like none of it. I can't believe that these aunts and uncles are doing it with malicious intent. Like, you know, you think they're- That seems like maybe that's what she's thinking, like that they just know it's not her name and they're doing it to annoy her or something like that. Right. Right.

And if someone did think that about me, I would keep doing it to annoy them. I would enjoy annoying this person. She'd be, the kids would be calling her, sorry. Every time she walked in her room. Go say hi to aunt, sorry. Yeah, go, yeah. Stop apologizing.

You know, like, I would fuck with her. It does. And I actually like this family. Who even says someone's name that often? I never say anyone's name, really. Like, when are you saying someone's name out loud? I avoid saying people's names for, fear that I don't know their names, you know? So everyone I know is buddy man, dude, bro,

you know, like that's everyone to me. So and especially aunts and uncles, like, I don't know. To me, I like this family if they're fucking with her and I'm like, I think that they're fun. Like, I think that's like a fun little thing where they're like, because if someone was like, my parents didn't name me sorry. Like if they came up with these like these things to like combat it, I would see that and I'd be like, oh, we got to go full on sorry. We like, this is the family shit I live for. So like, if I saw that like someone was squirming every time my kids said sorry instead of sari, I'd be like kids. Okay, we're going to buy a board game called sorry.

So, okay? And we're going to start playing it around her. So you'd be just like her worst fear is like. true. Yes. Right. This is why I'm 10 out of 10. Totally. Yes. Right. This is why I think I'll be a great fun father and partner. This is the type of stuff that I would get into. So I can torment very much. I would torment a family. Absolutely. I would this person would be my favorite person to bother at family events. Like I would look forward to Christmas just to fuck with sorry. Oh gosh. I'm sorry.

After hearing that take. What's your therapeutic response to that? After hearing that take, I give it a 10. There are people that exist. Well, I agree. If you don't like someone saying their name wrong on purpose is probably a like, it's like a very passive aggressive way of letting them know that. But like, why wouldn't they like her?

She's like the, she's like the nephew in-law's wife. Like the nephew's wife? That's my point for why I would want to fuck with her. You know, you're getting annoyed at us for something we didn't mean to do. We didn't call you sorry because we wanted to fuck with you initially. Now you're assuming we're all these evil people that don't care about your name when we just fucked up. We're sorry. We see you fucking once a year.

And I don't know how I'm saying and I'm drunk. I just had a bunch of eggnog. And you're giving me shit for mispronouncing. name that I don't give a fuck about. You're so-and-so's wife. You know, like, I wasn't even invited to the wedding. And it's like, and then so it is. You know, so like, it's this like, you know, it's, it's, I didn't intend to call you

the wrong name, but now because you assumed I did intend to call you the wrong name, I will now call you the wrong name forever. And my children and my children's children, like, if I were her, like, this happened to my friend. This happened to a good friend of mine. the family called him Byron instead of Brian And they He came he's married to this woman The whole family was like

I guess the grandfather if I'm remembering the story correctly The grandfather was like going on and on about Byron And they all were like Who the fuck is Byron? And they're like he goes Byron with Jess And they all like died laughing And I think he might have gotten a little annoyed at it And then the whole family picked up on

he was annoyed at it. So now he's Byron to literally the whole family. And that's the most fun evolution of this. And to me, her fighting against this, like, if I'm her, I'm showing up, I'm Aunt sorry. Like, she's got to go with the flow on this one. Like, this is the family doesn't want to hurt your feelings. Like, just because this has been something you've dealt with your whole life doesn't

mean we're new to the show. We're new to the sorry show. Right. We didn't, we, we, we, obviously, we took. touched a nerve with you, but, you know, sorry, sorry. That's your name now, bitch. That's an alternative take. I like it.

This is the therapy show, right? That's your name now, bitch. Well, that's my question is like, is there an actual, like, what is so hurtful to her about not being called the right name? because she's called the right name by his parents, people she sees, I assume, much more frequently. I do think there is something where, like, if you are only seeing someone once a year, you might not forget because you're not saying it all the time.

And people are like that with difficult names. So I don't really think it's that offensive. I agree. I think it kind of, it is a little strange that she's that offended by it. Again, as two people, you and me, probably me the most, with someone whose name is not pronounced correctly most of the time. her her whole email was annoyed she she the whole thing about well I'm my parents are Robin and Alex they never have to deal with this and it's like this isn't your cross to bear this is not like

like like just that whole thing about her family having names where they don't have to like she's made herself more of a victim than anyone would accept you know and And like that's why these aunts and uncles don't give a fuck. Because they're like, oh, we fucked up the name. Who cares? They don't know that she has this trauma because her brother Alex never has to deal with such misgivings. It's like, I'm Jared. No one understands Jared right away.

It always Jerry, Jerome, Gerard, Gerard, Jeremy. And I'm like, yeah, whatever the fuck it is, just get out of the way. Like, I don't give a fuck. All right. It is interesting to hear this take because my initial was, no one would be doing this intentionally to bother you. I know, this is the joke that I would, I see this. Maybe maybe they really are. And I get what you're saying where it's kind of like, come on, give me a real like childhood trauma, you know, and then we'll be very sensitive to it.

You know, instead it's not like you're making fun of a handicapped. or, you know, it's, it's, I hear you. She must have had some, like, elementary school, like, trauma around this. Yeah. Well, if she's around a certain age, that whole commercial for the board game, Sorry was sorry. I mean, like, that's eat. Maybe you hit it on the head.

I might have. I mean, that's got to be close to it. So do you think the, so Jared, your solution is to just take it. Oh, my solution is to join in. You can't beat them join them. Right. Right. Okay.

My solution is own the name. Like my friend is Byron to this whole family now. Like own it. Like wear a T-shirt with sorry on the back. Like I, it's also such a like sari versus sorry. I kind of get it. Like I, it's like Naomi versus Naomi versus Naomi.

I don't really think of like that big of a difference. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Alex never has to deal with this. I think if it really, really bothers her, she could just continue to correct them every single time. Until it gets really awkward and uncomfortable.

Oh, my God. I'm just thinking about how much fun I would have with this person. Like, and it's maniacal. Let's say she's with a monster like Jared. Let's say she, that's like the, you know.

Like if I was the brother-in-law, oh my God. Her brother-in-law is like a complete monster. Right. What do you think? If the brother-in-law is fucking with her, like, yeah, she has a right to be triggered because that's what they're trying to do. What would get you to stop? Yeah, if you were fucking with her.

If she started crying, she started crying. It really hurts my feelings. That would ruin the fun. If she really had a public meltdown, I would walk away making like a face like, ugh. And then I go, I would be on a separate. I would never say her name again. I wouldn't even acknowledge her. Right.

I wouldn't acknowledge her. If she couldn't have fun with it, like I would actually never, like we wouldn't have a relationship. This happened. I got, I was fucking with someone. I, I'm a ball buster. Like I like making fun and being ball busted on. Like I do enjoy that type of humor.

So there have been instances where like, I said. a video to someone being like, you met like they weren't at the time. We were out having fun and this one person wasn't there. And so I sent a video being like, you missed out, you bitch, loser. And they're like, like this fun video. And they wrote me back like so mad. They were like, you, you left me out. And like, I don't know, I was like, oh my God, I would never like send a video to someone

that I didn't like. That's the thing. Like I was sorry. I'd be like, I like, I like. this person. I just think it's funny they get annoyed by it. It's not that deep. But if they made it deep, I would be like, ooh, I guess we don't like each other's humor. Right. Okay. So solution A, go with it. Solution B, it's cry. Melon. Down back off. Yes. No, I like this person hates me so much now. This person is like, hates me in a way. They can't even fap.

Were you up listener before? They might not be anymore. Right. I like the advice of like, don't take yourself so seriously, you know? Just kind of roll with it. I hear you on that. That's at the heart of it. I'd give it a three.

I don't really feel like it would bother me very much, especially if it was like, I think it's not like the wrong name. The wrong name, I think is very insulting, but an inability to pronounce the name. Not that hurtful to me. Anyway, personally. I give it a 10 for the aunts and uncles. They're, like they're, they're triggered by. They should be triggered.

They're triggered. If I'm the aunt and uncle, I'm triggered at a 10 by her being triggered by the name mismatch. Right. You're insulted by the, uh, even the, the idea that it would be insulting. Well, look, I could see that as a comedian, you can't, I mean, it's, it probably puts a lot of, you know, would, I don't know what the expression is, but it stifles you to have to worry about offending people all the time.

So I could see a comedian being triggered by the fact that someone's offended by something so small because then you can't, at some point, you probably have some really funny stuff that you can't even say because you don't want to offend people. No joke I've ever told has been to make someone feel badly. Right. You know,

I've never started at how do I get this person? even if I was doing a roast it wouldn't be about how do I embarrass this person it's about how do I take something from their life that's funny and make them laugh at themselves like and so when you like internet comments

that are you know anyone who comments on the internet like angrily I just think is like the saddest loser like they like for them to like go to the place of that I started at mean I think so sadly for them. Like, I'm like, how did you, your first thought was that my first thought was to be mean to someone?

Wow, like, life must be pretty upsetting to you. So I, whenever someone's like, and I don't, I don't live in a world where like everyone's offended. Like, I do believe you can be offensive. Like, I think if a joke is told wrong, it can be offensive. I think that's the responsibility of the joke maker. but and you can fuck up but I think if someone believes that your fuck up was because

your intent was to be mean I'm like I can't get it yeah I hear that I do think you know obviously from my perspective when people do have those past experiences of bullying or trauma or whatever

it's like that their antenna are up all the time right and they do not give people the benefit of the doubt and I think that's what happened here you know she was not giving them the benefit of the doubt and then that turned into perhaps this intentional poking when in the beginning it probably didn't start that way or deaf i'm sure it didn't start that way i love that we've just been convinced that these aunts and uncles are fucking with her i love well you did you did make a very strong argument for it in our defense yes that's true

you really turn the tables on us on our own show right it's what i would do Yes. Be mean. Thank you so much for joining us. This was such a fun episode. I feel like we had a good mix of some fun times and some deep conversations. If the audience, I'm sure the audience already follows you, but if they don't, what should they, should they know?

Where can they get more? Where can they get their own name roasted? Right. If your name, please don't DM me, sorry. Whoever you are, I would say, thank you so much for having. me my the only up the only regret I have about doing this is that I can't listen next week this is I've lost one of my podcasts so I'm a huge fan love your two the dynamic you guys have this is and when you in a new show that's hard to find but you got you know fit the familyness of it it it's

drenched in the show so you're an honorary Abraham Schoenlick sibling I I'm so happy to be I'm I'm a proud member of the family. Thank you for having me. Yeah, they can find me wherever. I'm in Vegas this weekend. If anyone wants to come to some shows, I'll be in Vegas. I'm going to Europe. I just announced the European tour.

So if you're... I'm excited about that. So London, Amsterdam, Copenhagen. So Jaredfrey.com, if you're interested in my date. Jaredfrey.com, if you've seen Jared stand up and Dr. You've seen it, right? It's so funny. It was so good.

I had such a good time. That was really, really funny. That was great. I was laughing the whole time. I got all this new stuff about my mom now. And then my mom and I told her that and she was like, what are the jokes? And then I was like, fuck. And I'm like trying to like tell her.

I was like, you know how you don't know how to order coffee? And she's like, what are you talking about? Like she just didn't get it right away. I was like, all right. All right. We'll talk later. Oh, God. If only everyone had the cathartic outlet of just doing a public standup show to, to roast all

annoying things that their mom does, right? Right. It's a dream. Right. Or come to my show because your mom probably does the same thing as mine. Same exact thing. Right. Yeah.

Totally. Exactly. Jaredfrey.com. Check him out and listen to all, you know, J-Train podcast, you up podcast. You know where to find him. And if you're an ex of mine listening, I'm sorry. I hope. You're sorry, not sorry.

Right. I think we have a title. There we go. This was fun, awesome. We'll do it again. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Picoe, and Rebecca Salis McHale. Editing by Basilio Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Freedander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294.