Oversharing - Why “I’m Never Speaking to You Again” Isn’t The Answer

Episode Date: August 16, 2022

On today’s Oversharing, Naomi tells Jordana a story about her recent massage experience with a masseuse who went MIA for a little too long. Turns out a therapist off duty is still a therapist—the masseuse was going through it. Then it’s time for the essie Overshare email of the week, which comes from a listener who is feeling lonely and disconnected from family members even when she’s visiting her childhood home. How do you reconnect with loved ones when you’ve begun to drift apart? In this week’s Betchicist, a listener asks what to do about her mother’s pattern of being the “other woman.” How do you navigate a relationship with a family member whose choices you don’t agree with? They close with a game of Triggered, including parents who won’t go the extra mile, a mother-in-law who wants to be called ‘mom,’ and a listener whose husband wants a framed photo of him and his ex-wife in her home. Thanks again to our presenting sponsor essie. For more information, visit: essie.com/colors-and-connection Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Trinidad and I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going? How's everything?

It's going pretty good. Life is good. Summer's winding down, sort of. Is it? I feel like we're still kind of smack in the middle, no. Although it's in Texas, the kids go back to school like the second week in August. So it's sort of, oh, wow. End of July is the end of summer.

Okay. But it's still, you know, cool weather and all that good stuff. So we're all good. Yeah. I think of the end of summer as like after Labor Day. Yeah, for sure. That's true. That's like most people.

But I guess back to school is really your mindset. Totally. And we're heading to New York. So that's going to be fun. We're getting all ready for that trip. Back to the old stomping grounds. I know. I'm excited to see you.

We're going to be doing our next recording for next week's episode in person, our first in person recording, even though we did our first recording in separate rooms in your house. Right. That was interesting. It was a bit of a letdown. I was all excited. But we ended up separately, which was funny.

But this time we'll be in the Betches recording studio. Which I've never seen. So I'm excited to. see the whole office and, you know, see where all the action happens. Yeah, I'm excited to show you where all the magic happens. Yes. It's a very fun office. So I think it'll be, it'll be fun to give you a little tour too.

I don't think anyone's from our family has really seen it yet since we moved in the midst of the pandemic. But yeah, I don't know if we want to talk about it. I had an interesting massage experience. So I went. Oh, let's hear it. So I went. That's always feels like a kind of like. Worrysome praise.

Worrysome praise, exactly. So I went for a massage and, you know, I sit down. I'm excited. I love my massages. It's like an hour, just quiet, no phones, no distraction. No one asking me, the peaceful music. It's like, I love it. It's my happy place.

And I sit down and the massage therapist says something like, you know, she's very nice. We do the whole spiel in the beginning. What are you here for? Blah, blah, blah. And then she says something like, oh, don't mind my stomach. like I haven't eaten breakfast yet. It just makes a lot of noises. And I was kind of like, okay, whatever, it happens to all of us.

The fact that she said it means you know something's coming. Right. So I was like, oh, it's so funny because like I haven't eaten anything either. So like maybe we'll just have like a symphony of stomach growling here, which is fine. So she's doing the massage. And then maybe like halfway through, she's like, hang on a minute. I have to go get more lotion. And I was like, okay.

Like, I was kind of thinking, like, surprised they don't keep the lotion. Yeah. In the room. Like, you have to leave the room to get the lotion. But I was like, all right, whatever. Then I started. And then she's, like, gone for a long time. So I'm like, oh, she probably, like, has an upset stomach and doesn't want to say anything

to me. Like, maybe she's embarrassed. Okay. So she's gone for a while. Like, I don't know. It felt like 10 minutes. she comes back in and so I said to her, you know, because I felt for her like if you're not feeling well, like it's okay. Let's just like, you know, we can end it or whatever. So I said something like,

yeah. So I said, are you feeling okay? So at first she got a little defensive. She's like, why don't I seem like I'm feeling okay? And I was like, no, you know, I just feel like if, you know, I just want to let you know that like if you're not feeling well, it's totally fine. I get it. Like it happens to all of us. And I even said something like, you know, I've had, I'm a therapist and I've had sessions where like I really just suddenly don't feel well in the middle of the session. So like I can understand like sometimes stuff happens. If you don't feel well, that's okay. You could let me know. And like it's no big deal. So she was like, no, I'm fine. And then she's like massaging goes back to doing what she's doing. And she goes, well, maybe what you're

picking up on is that I'm a little off because I'm a. Jehovah's Witness and I just, like, left the community. There's a word. Like excommunicated? Yes. I just like excommunicated. Doesn't someone do that? Isn't that when you get kicked out?

Maybe that's not the right word then. I think she decided to leave. I don't know if excommunicated is a word. I'll figure out what that word is. Yeah, I thought excommunicated is when you're like banned. I don't think that's, no, maybe it's, I don't know. I'll think of it. But there's a word for when you basically like leave an organization like that.

Sure. So she's like so. it's like a really stressful time and maybe that's what you're picking up on. And I was kind of like, that's not what I was looking for at all. Like I just thought maybe your stomach was upset, but maybe I am picking up on some kind of a stressed out vibe, energy or whatever. So then we started just having a conversation about her leaving as Jehovah's Witness and then, you know, five minutes later, massage was over. Then you're working from her. And how does that make you feel? So it was an interesting experience to say the least, but there was something, I thought it was interesting to share here because there was like some kind of a vibe going back.

Like when you're in a room with somebody and you're kind of in close quarters and you're sharing that space, at least for me, I can't ignore the other person's experience in that moment. So I think that's what it was for me. Like I wanted to make sure that I was aware of her experience. But when I got home, Jeff's like, only you. like only you are going to get the massage therapist that's going to start kind of like telling their whole life story right in the middle of the massage were you guys like working through the like her leaving thing or was it just like it wasn't that long it was like you know maybe five minutes of her just telling me what was going on and then me empathizing and then

and then she was cool after that she kind of like realized okay enough i'm going to pull it together and finish the quiet massage share. Yeah. I mean, I hope that didn't taint your, your experience too much. I do feel like it's annoying when you like go somewhere for the sake of like being relaxed and then it becomes, become more stressed and you're like, this is the opposite of what I wanted from this. Totally. Yeah, which I could see. But it wasn't. It was fine. I really do like helping people and I, I like when people open up to me. I mean, yes, I would probably would have preferred maybe at the end or at the beginning, but, you know, that's the good thing.

And I do feel very blessed about what I do because I really just like to do it in my free time. And I like to help people. But yeah. Right. You probably have a lot more patience for that than I would have. I would have been like, you know what I mean? When you're like, I actually find this experience comes up a lot when you're like, when you're waiting. You know what I mean?

Because like if I'm waiting for anything, if I'm waiting to like for a table or I'm waiting at a register, if I'm waiting at a bar, I'm waiting like for someone to like, do you know what I mean? in any of those. What experience you're saying comes up when you're waiting? Like first I'm like, okay, it's like a couple minutes. And then I'm like, where is? Like I'm like irritated. Like for like, you know what I mean?

If you're waiting for a drink and you can't get the bartender's attention. Or if you're, I don't know, you're waiting, you have a reservation and you're waiting for a table and they say it's going to be five minutes and then it's 20 minutes. And then do you know what I mean where you just the irritation starts to like like every minute that passes. Right. Even if you don't have any reason that you need them to go immediately. you're just kind of like, well, that's your mindful moment where you're kind of like, what am I getting so worked up about right now? Like, I don't really have any place else to go. I'm going to just look around and people watch and, but I get it. I've been there. You have two at places we go, though, too. I was at, what was it? Juice press the other day and they were making a smoothie and it was like taking like 20 minutes. I'm like, I have a meeting. Yeah, that is annoying. But that's how it was when I was waiting the 10 minutes.

it's for her to come back with the lotion. That initial part of me that was like, what is going on? Like, this is crazy. I'm sitting here, like, just waiting. Then that led me to thought of like, oh, maybe something's wrong. Maybe she doesn't feel well. Like, you know, oh, I remember her stomach was growling. So I tried to come back to that. But yeah, waiting is hard. Yeah. I think you get a lot more of that irritation. I would imagine once you leave New York for a while, because for me, once I leave New York, because I live here. If I leave for like, if I visit somewhere else for a couple days, like if I was in Austin last week and the person isn't like, it's like, it's like because it's so fast-paced, I get very irritated when it goes slowly. Even if I'm like, you're not even in my town.

Like I'm in your town. Totally. And that's not how you run here. But I remember I got, I was ordering something at like, I was ordering an iced coffee. And then they brought the iced coffee. And I was like, can I just get like the milk? They're like, I'm about to go get it. I'm like.

Okay. But like, how am I supposed to know that? Chill out, Yankee. I don't know. I mean, it's funny because I think of myself as like not that annoying, but then sometimes I leave the city and I'm like, I can't handle this. Yeah, it's true. There's just a whole culture around time that changes depending on where you go. Yeah. So anyway, that was my massage story. but that is a good like what you said a good time to be like okay I'm going to be mindful about this I'm going to bring myself back to is this actually a situation where I it's also that other thing where you're like should I say something should I not say something yes like I want to say something but I don't want to be like that person or maybe if I don't say something they're going to call me my name in like a minute right totally well sometimes what I do this is just personally I'll like look at my watch and I'll be like okay if nothing happened by this time then I will politely say something. But yeah, I guess if you, like you said,

if you had a meeting and you went in to get a juice and you thought it was going to take like seven minutes and it took 20, that's tough. The little daily irritations are sometimes almost harder than the large, because when you're dealing with a person you know and that's usually when it's a larger issue, then you can put it more into context of like,

okay, this person said this thing that was irritating because like I imagine this is why. or as if you're dealing with, you're just going about your day-to-day life, it's easier to, like, in your head, build up a whole story about why you've been very wronged in this. Right.

And this whole place is being so poorly run and look at the garbage is overflowing and what's going on here. This is a disaster, right? Right. But yeah, just being mindful, okay, if I really do have some place to go, then I'm going to make a rational plan

of how I'm going to an exit strategy. At some point, you're going to have to leave. But if you don't have any place to go, then maybe that's your little mindful moment for the day. Listen to the sound of the blender. As they make a drink that's not yours. The delicious sound of somebody else's blended juice. But that's a good point.

Just try to take the context into it, what you can control and what you can. It's a good way to look at it. Now it's time for the overshare email of the week, brought to you by our favorite nail polish brand, Essie. For many of us, the world feels lonelier than ever. So as you launched hands all in, a cause initiative to combat loneliness with the power of colors and connection, fostering meaningful relationships is super important for your mental health.

So today's email is all about loneliness and your family and connection and just how to feel more connected overall. Let's get into it. Hi, Jay and Dr. N. First off, thanks for all that you do. The episode about feeling your feelings really helped me. So here's my overshare. I've been feeling lonely, especially when I'm home in the suburbs of my family. I love my family and I want to get closer, but I don't really know how to.

We spend lots of time together when I'm home, but it doesn't really feel like we're truly connected. My dad and I are cool now that we've learned to avoid all political topics, but it's hard for us to find things in common. He wants to watch World War II documentaries and I want to watch The Bachelor. And when we're home hanging out with people his age, although they're very nice, we obviously can't relate on too many levels. My sister and I finally started getting along and we both want to be closer, but it's still to be tough. When she comes to visit our child at home, we sometimes settle back into old ways, or she brings her boyfriend, who I don't know that well yet. So I guess I'm wondering, is there a better way to really connect with the people close in your life? Do you have any

advice on things to do, talk about, et cetera, with my family to feel more connected and less lonely? Thank you for all you do, a lonely batch. All right. Sometimes I think this is hard because you feel like it's your family and you should, there should just be this automatic connection. But a lot of times you go through ebbs and flows of closeness. So I could totally relate to this. And it's funny that Essie is sponsoring this email because whenever somebody comes to visit, the first thing we do is go get our nails done. That's like the girl bonding thing. Yeah. Maybe it's the girl bonding thing in our family. Because like if I picture like having a daughter like in life, that's like sort of the activity I picture doing it. Right. And I don't even have a

daughter. It's just, right. Because it's like you could sit and chat and like you talk about, you know, it's like you're doing something, but you're also able to just kind of have a conversation and there's distraction, but not too. It's like the perfect amount of a little bit of distraction. So it's not super intense, but you still have plenty of time to talk. So that might be something she would want to do with her sister. That's something that we do a lot. But with her dad, I mean, my recommendation would be maybe try some of the stuff that he's into, you know, like maybe you could watch one of those with him and try to find something interesting

just to kind of pull it out of him a little bit. If I were talking to him, I would say the same thing. Maybe he can try to, you know, show some interest or at least give it a shot. You know, sometimes with people you say like, that's just not my thing and so you don't even try it. You know, like Jeff is always trying to get me to watch music documentaries and it's not my favorite thing.

But every time I give in and I watch one, I get like obsessed with the band then I start listening to the music every day for the next two weeks after that. Right. I agree. It's like a willingness to try new things. But sometimes you don't actually like it. I feel like if you're like on occasion, that happens.

But I think other times you're kind of like with Mike, he like tried to get me to come to baseball games. And like every time I go, I'm like, I just like, don't really like this. Let's just peel that, pick that apart for a second. Do you really try? You go in there with an open mind and like really try or are you just kind of going and saying that you're trying? You could be honest. I think for those one-off games, I'm probably not really trying. But like, I don't know.

There's baseball in particular just feels like so slow. And like, I'd rather, I'd rather play baseball than watch baseball. Like I don't like watching people do things that I'm not, can't participate in. I think a good adjacent example of that that actually did work for me in the sports world was, like when there was the World Cup, um, a few years ago he, I really like games and like gamifying things and he kind of brought me into his friends.

Like they had like some betting league where you get to like pick. I forgot exactly how it worked, but it was like a draft like the teams or you guess who's going to win. And then you can make a little money. It's not like, or like a huge gambling thing, but it's like you make like 20 bucks if your team wins. And then I'm like, okay,

now I am really interested. Like now I really care. Yeah. That's perfect. Maybe she could watch some World War II documentaries and drink every time they mention a general's name. Yeah. You know. No, I think it's something to make it more like fun and like interactive.

Right. I mean, maybe there's a, I think it's leaning into that in some way. But that's cool that you were able to kind of find your way. Or even if you say, okay, I'm not really into, you know, I mean, you don't have trouble connecting with Mike, but let's say you did, right? And you could say, well, I'm not into watching baseball. but if you want to get a bunch of friends together and we can all play, I'd be more into that. So finding those commonalities, because it's really not about the thing.

Like, you have plenty of time to entertain yourself. You don't need to necessarily be, if the point is to be connecting, it's not really about like having the most entertaining time. It's about connecting. Yeah. You know, it's almost like, again, people don't like meditation because it feels like boring, right? It's like this, I'm working on myself. if I'm growing here, I'm doing something with intention for a purpose, it's not going to be the most

entertaining thing. And I think that's part of this too, is that sometimes, you know, you want to always feel like, you know, we're bonding on this thing that we're both super entertained about. And yes, you can try that. But I think sometimes just seeing your dad's face and how happy he is that you're asking questions about his documentary will probably be worth it, even if it's not the most fun thing, you know. And I think like what I guess another part of it, I think especially with siblings or with parents, because like I have a similar situation with my dad who's not your dad. But with politics, like when we talk about, I know when we talk about politics or we talk about certain topics, like that divides us. That's because we have different political views. So like part of me is like, oh, let's get into like an interesting discussion about it.

But then you're kind of like if you do it enough times, you're like, this doesn't feel good. I don't feel more connected. I actually feel less connected to this person. Right. When I talk about this topic with them. So rather than try to change it so that we feel connected about the same thing, I think about like, what are topics that we're both interested in? What are topics that make we feel like connected to him? And I think that happens a lot with siblings too. And it's funny because with our siblings,

it's like our shared history or like the same, you know what I mean, like the same sort of like chaotic childhood stuff that does unite us in a way. Totally. Totally. And it's fun to talk about it. It's like, it is fun. I get it. It's really fun to talk about something with someone. and they're like, yes, oh my God, yes. I know exactly what you. I get it. And they can add on to something that you said. That's the ideal, right?

But I think here maybe she needs to sort of go for less than ideal, but still, you know, like you said, kind of find a topic that might be mutually slightly interesting instead of, you know, shooting for the stars. Right. And then see what you can work with there. But I also, what do you think of like, and again, like, is there ever a point where you're just kind of like, we're just not that close? Like, is that okay to just be like, oh, my sister and I are just not that close

or my dad and I are just not that close? And like, it doesn't have to be a contentious thing, but it's just kind of like, we kind of don't just have, we just don't really have that much in common. And sometimes you do, and that's great, and you're kind of lucky. And sometimes you don't.

And I don't know, like, is that okay? Or is that something you need to always be working on? Because I, you know, we have so many siblings. And over like the years, you know, sometimes you're like, I just don't really feel like we're in this, especially the big age gaps where you're like, I don't really feel like we're going through the same things in life. I don't really feel like we're interested in the same things. And like I don't have anything against you. But I also like, I don't know. I don't feel like we have much to say. Totally. And I think there is a place for having some patience and realizing that, you know, relationships are going to go through phases. Like since we've been doing this, I have, you know, I feel like we talk more. I'm more

involved in your life. And this is not something I ever would have thought that we would have been doing. you know, like when you were in your early 20s and I was in my early 30s, like, we didn't talk that much. We didn't, you know, we probably weren't that close at that time. Right. You know, so, and it came back. So I think sometimes you can be patient. And I also think depends on how you feel. If she's feeling lonely, then no, it's not okay.

You know what I'm saying? Right. Then she wants to put some more effort into it, which I get. And I like, you know, I respect her for this because she's, you know, trying to. make some effort to find closeness. If it wasn't bothering her, then I guess it's okay. The other piece I think is some people are not as verbal,

which we kind of touched on a few weeks ago, right? Like some people find closeness just by being in the room together, watching a show together, and that's how they bond. So if she just sat on the couch next to her dad watching a show, he would probably feel really close to her. she probably would want some conversation about it or she would want something that feels more verbal as an expression of closeness, but not everybody needs that. I mean, it sounds like maybe she needs

more than whatever it is that they're doing. But I think sometimes just being with someone, that can be your time, you know, just being in the room with them. Like, he's in the, you know, living room watching a show. You're in the kitchen making a snack. Maybe you're, you know, whatever it is that you're doing. You sit on the couch next to him. reading a book and he's doing whatever and you're still kind of together even though you're not necessarily having conversation. So I think everybody sees that connection is different. But to answer your question, I think if she's feeling lonely about it in her life, I think it's something that she probably needs to put more effort into in some way. But if you don't feel lonely and you don't miss it,

then I think it's okay to kind of let it work its way back in in time. Right. Yeah. And I guess it's tough if it's like you feel that way about your whole family. And then it becomes like, okay, like, is it me or is it like, and I think there's this idea as you get older of like, because I see that with, you know, more of my friends, especially like, you know, as they relate to their parents. Like, there was a comfort in having like a home base, especially as you're like in your 20s and trying to figure things out and like, you know, even now, I feel like there's people who could feel like they can always just go home. And I'm, you know, I don't necessarily.

like have that feeling especially as our family has like dispersed throughout the country and I do think it's very lucky to be able to have that but not everyone does I don't think I necessarily do and what I found is like the comfort in friendships in that way and so like you don't because obviously like in societally we're sort of told that like you should be extremely close to your family physically and mentally right but I remember growing up feeling more of this sense of like a loneliness especially being like in the Forgotten Four, as we've discussed as the younger generation. Right. And just kind of like a lot of chaotic things going on and like not really having much connection

to anyone just because of all like the craziness and then feeling like a comfort and security and like my friendships. Totally. So I think again, maybe that gets you through those moments of this connection. And then you can always reconnect at a later point. But I think it's nice that she said her sister and her like starting to connect more. maybe as their age gap closes or they're in a more similar place in life. Yeah, that makes sense. And I think it's, you know, it's hard because when you come home again, it's not the same.

You know, it's like when you lived in that house, I'm assuming they're in the same house that they lived in. When you lived in that house, there was like, okay, what are we having for dinner? And like, you know, what, what's your plan for the week and where we, you know, there was like this whole collective life living thing that was happening. and then when you go back home, it probably feels different. You know, it's not like you're going, you know, it just feels like you're a visitor, which sometimes can feel, I don't know, just like it can leave you feeling like a little bit

of a void there. Like I'm visiting this home that used to be my home. And so now I'm just kind of coming in here and watching everybody do the things that they used to do. I'm coming here to connect and they're just going about their lives living. So I think that might be affecting her as well. But yeah, I think you can let it give a little bit of effort as she seems like she is. But then also, yeah, lean on your friends if it feels like that's what is coming most naturally to you.

Right. And there's a time in place for everything. And maybe there'll be a later time in your life where you're feeling more disconnected from your friends and your family is more like, you know, in line. I think it. And I've been thinking about this a lot actually lately. it's kind of like the nice thing about friends is that you can have many of them but there does feel something a little different about family in that it's like you know they're always going to be your family whereas you know friendships do feel more like they could change based on circumstance in life and you could kind of like completely lose touch with a friend but with family it's like they're kind of like you have like a literal blood bond that you can't almost escape that like you know will always be there, which is why, I don't know, I think if you have a really strong family connection, it feels even stronger sometimes than a strong friendship. Oh, totally. There is something.

I think it's almost, you know, like an evolutionary thing to feel closeness to someone who shares your bloodline. Like when it's there, it's really there. That's just, I think, kind of like an instinctual thing. But I think sometimes what happens on the flip side is you know that person's always going to be there. so you don't care for the relationship as much. You know, like you don't feel like you have to necessarily put in as much effort because

they're always going to be there. Like, if you have a friend, you're going to figure out, you're going to call them and think of something to say or you're going to make a point to do something. You're going to put a little bit more effort in probably if you actually want to maintain that in the long run because there's no guarantees, like you said, the way there is with family. So it might be worth having a conversation. Her sister sounds like she wants to do it, but it might be worth having.

a conversation with her dad, maybe even just bringing up something she needs advice on, financial something or, you know, something where she feels like he could feel like he's helping her. And that might increase that connection. And then with her sister, when she brings home the boyfriend, I think nothing makes you feel like as good as someone trying to like get to know the person you're dating. Yes. It would be like, let's go to dinner. Like, let's go do the three of us. Let's go do an activity. and then you can feel like I'm even more connected to this person because I'm connected to the person that she's, that's really important in their life.

Like that could be the shared instead of like, oh, we both love baseball. Like we both are big fans of her boyfriend or something. Right. No, no. I think you're onto something. And then that, you know, it just sounds like somebody needs to sometimes put a little bit of juice

into the relationship. And if you're the one that's feeling lonely, you're the one that's probably going to be the most motivated. to put a little bit more effort in. So whether it's suggesting something for the three of them to do, asking her dad for some advice on something that he feels that he would know about, something that she could do to just put a little bit more effort and might go a long way.

And yeah, the person who's going to put the effort in is the person that's feeling the biggest loss. So, and right now it seems like that's her. Agreed. Well, hopefully we helped Lonely Batch out and gave her some tips for connection. But let us know if you try them out, how they go. Thanks again to our presenting sponsor Essie. Essie has made it their mission to help combat loneliness with the power of colors

and connection through their hands all in initiative. I love that Essie's doing this. I know that nail polish is something that we've bonded over so many times. I love my Fiji on the toes. It's my go-to. It's the family color. It's a family color, I think. Yeah, this is really cool that they're doing this.

And I hope that this can help some people. people feel a little bit less lonely as we try to do every week. So if you're feeling lonely, you're not alone, and Essie is here to help. For more information, visit s e.com slash colors and connection. That's E-S-S-S-I-E dot com slash colors dash A-N-D-D-connection to find out more. Should we do a batchist ethical email? Yeah, let's do that. Jordana and Naomi, thanks for all you do. I'm really enjoying oversharing in both of your perspectives. I'll get right to it. I'm looking for advice on how to handle a forthcoming conversation with my mom about her repeated behavior as quote unquote the other woman. Some backstory. My mom left my dad when I was younger for another man. She moved out of the family home and my dad was the primary caretaker of my sisters and me. Over the next 20 years, she engaged in at least two other affairs with married men from work.

always hoping they would leave their wives. They never did, and she was left devastated. It was always a challenging topic for my sisters and me, and she was incredibly defensive when we expressed that we did not appreciate the path she was choosing. Throughout the past five years, my mom has seemingly grown up a lot, admitting many of her mistakes and is a great grandma to my nieces and nephews. I've grown closer to her as I prepare to get married later this year and for children of my own. Very recently, some old patterns began to surface. These patterns include talking about work drama, her appearance, a very attractive woman, and considering making big life changes out of the blue. Notably, my mom called me to tell me she was looking to sell her home, which she'd worked

really hard for and moved to a town I'd never heard her speak of. My grandparents also live with her, It's not my life, so I told her I supported her decision. Then something clicked. I put all our conversations together and texted my older sister. Is mom seeing someone? Is it that guy from work she talks about? And he's married, right? She confirmed all the above and that my mom wanted to bring the married guy to my wedding later this year. It's become clear that she's moving forward with this relationship, selling her home to live close to this man and to bring him to my wedding. The reality for me is that I'm in my mid-30s with a great fiancee and future. Her decisions don't impact me anymore, but they affect the closeness of the relationship I want.

want to have. She's been preparing to tell me and to ask about the wedding. When she does, how do I effectively express to her that? Number one, it's her life, but I'm concerned she's making big life decisions for a married man and not herself. The move is to his hometown. That this path has never worked out for her, rarely works out for anyone, and is painful for many people. Two, I don't love the idea of him at my wedding, but she can bring him. However, saying yes, is not approval. It's apathy. Three, I no longer want to fight about judging her decisions, but I can't continue to care, but it does have an impact on the closeness of our relationship. When I've had these discussions in the past, they am with her yelling that I'm judging her,

telling me I'm not perfect, and that I don't understand the situation. And lastly, how do I accept that maybe the relationship I envision with my mother, as I have my own kids, just isn't going to happen. I have amazing sisters and dad, so I'm lucky there. Thanks, daughter of the other woman. This one's tricky. Yeah, there's a lot here. And I mean, this is a very specific scenario, but I think a lot of people can relate to the idea of like a member of their family that they are tied to for life, does things that they don't agree with, that they are very frustrating to them and like at one point do you say this is like not about me on the other hand it's kind of like why can't i judge you like it's totally right especially on this where it's like so obvious right this is

something that's like pretty black and white most people would say is not a not going to be in her mother's best interest and also not the right thing to do it's not like it's something that is actually going to end up probably making her happy in the end. So I could see why she's judging her. You know, when I read this, I think this emailer is pretty right on. Like, I think she has her three things that she wants to say to her mother, I think are great. Yeah. She's done some base. It looks like she like had some therapy before this. It feels like she's worked out a lot of it. Yeah. This looks great. It's like the first one is basically, I'm going to express my concern and let you know how I feel. It's almost like if a friend or someone is doing something you think is terrible, there's sort of this moral obligation.

Like, I need to tell you this because if I don't, then I'll feel like, you know, I was not a good friend for not speaking up about this thing. So she wants to tell her. She's saying basically like, he can come to my wedding because I don't want to fight with you or I don't really care. But that's not saying that I approve. It's just saying that I don't care enough to fight with you. and three, basically, I'm not going to argue, but this is going to affect the way that I feel about you. I think those are the three great points to speak to her mom about.

I think those are pretty perfect. But what comes to mind to me is something that I think, like you said, a lot of people deal with, which is sometimes you have to grieve the loss of the relationship that you wanted with a parent or a sibling or a child for some people or anyone that doesn't turn out the way that you envision. it. Yeah. And I mean, that brings to the larger question of like, do you have to

unconditionally love someone because they're a family member? Right. Or no. And I mean, like for kids, I feel like that's probably a stronger like if it's like your kid. Right. And they keep making the wrong decision. Maybe it's like that feels more you're more likely to.

But I feel like when you're the child and whether it's a sibling or a parent, it's kind of like, how obligated am I to be like close to you or feel like I really love you a lot when you're not a person that I really like. I think that's kind of what she's saying here to an extent. It's like, I don't really like you, but like I feel like obligated to love you. Totally. And that's a weird feeling to have, especially when it comes to like a parent child or sibling relationship. Like how much do I owe you?

Right. In terms of closeness or giving you a chance or having you in my life. is a very complicated thing that I've dealt with. And I just think it feels kind of weird either way. Right. One piece of advice that I have for people that are going through this is in terms of not making it so black and white. Like either I love you or I don't or either I'm nice to you or I'm mean to you, either I talk to you or I don't talk to you. But versus kind of thinking about it in terms of that grief and the loss that comes along with it where you're saying, okay, I don't have to be. to grieve this whole person because they're still here. And maybe there are some aspects of them that I enjoy. Like maybe they're funny or maybe I have a good time when I'm around them or maybe there are some redeeming qualities and then kind of taking an inventory for yourself of like,

what am I grieving here? You know, for this person. Like I'm grieving the loss of the fact that I don't have a mother that I like or I don't have a, you know, that I don't like her. Okay, that's a loss. Everyone would like to like their mother or their family members. So I'm going to grieve that loss. I'm grieving the loss of not having a mother that I can trust. Okay, so I don't like her. I don't trust her. These are the actual teasing apart, like, what am I actually grieving so that you can

focus on those aspects? It's not the entirety of her. Right. You know, even, okay, maybe she's making such poor life decisions. I'm grieving the loss of a mother that I can count on for advice because now I can't count on her anymore because I know that she's, you know, just really makes poor life choices. So I'm not going to go to her for advice. So there seems like there's a lot of things that this listener has to grieve about this relationship, but maybe like she said, she's good with her

grandchildren. Okay. So you still have that piece. You don't have to like throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. So maybe you can enjoy her as a grandmother, but you're not going to share personal details about your marriage with her or you're not going to go to her for advice or you're not going to, you know, so I think just part, part of dealing with this sometimes is not making it so black and white and thinking of it as like, what are the exact losses that I'm kind of working through here? I think that's a great way to look at it because it feels less daunting or it feels less like, oh, I have to draw, like you said, like a line in the sand here about, you know, she's in or she's out. Like you can. Right. And I was just looking through Instagram, I found this Esther Paril, Mother's Day post that she posted. about her own mother that I think is a very interesting, was really kind of spoke to me about like the way that you look at these kinds of relationships.

It was Mother's Day. She posted a picture of her and her mother. And she says, For those grieving their mothers wishing to be mothers or like me have complicated relationships with their mothers, Mother's Day can bring up a lot of mixed feelings. You may wonder how to celebrate a mother towards whom you have ambivalent feelings. I've spent countless hours addressing this very dilemma in my therapy. therapy office. And I myself can relate. My own mother believed that it was my friends and my neighbors

who would build me up and tell me all the good things about me. It was her job to do the rest, to tell me what the others wouldn't. And as a result, she rarely had a positive thing to say to me my entire life. Yet she is also the person who taught me to sing and dance. She has an amazing sense of humor. And it was when I was able to embrace the duality of my feelings for her that our tumultuous relationship shifted. I learned to hold both the part of me that loved her and the part that was angry at her. After years of training and family therapy, I applied some useful disengagement techniques. I learned not to explode when her criticism began. Instead, I'd kiss her on the cheek and thank her for trying to make me a better person. That shift changed everything for us in her later years.

After my mother died, I began writing my first book. It was the first time I did something I wasn't sure I could do. I always had to have enough confidence for two, for me and for her anxiety, even while her criticisms echoed in my head, fueling myself doubt, teaching me. Teaching, myself to hold the duality of my ambivalent feelings for her while she was alive helped me tremendously after she died. I allowed myself to grieve the mother I loved and allowed myself to let go of her view of me. In her absence, I opened myself up to others who showed me that motherly care doesn't just come from a mother. Sometimes it comes from the friend who says, come stay at my place and I'll take care of you or let me talk to your child and then basically some other stuff about

Mother's Day. But I thought that was like kind of a good also thing about what you were just saying, which is like you don't have to like hate someone in order to not like them like you say. Right. Right. Well, I think sometimes what happens is for some people, and this comes with boundaries of all sorts, whether it's an ex or a friend or a family member where there's almost people feel like if I don't conjure up feelings of anger and hatred, I'm not going to be strong enough to maintain my boundaries. So the way that Esther Perel is describing, and I almost got like taken it back when she said when her mother criticizes her, she kisses her on the cheek and says, thank you for trying to make me a better person, which really is what it is.

You know, that's what her mother's trying to do. But that's an elevated level of acceptance to be able to do that. And I think it's great to work towards that. And just as an awareness of, you know, you don't have to stay angry at someone or you don't have to conjure up anger in order to be able to set your boundaries. You can set your boundaries wherever you want. want whether you're angry or you're calm or you're happy or whatever. So I think sometimes people feel like they need to get angry in order to be able to say, no, you're not coming to my house, or no, you're not invited to the thing, or no, I'm not going to tell you anything personal or I'm not going to ask you advice, or you can set your boundaries wherever you want with or without anger.

And when you take the anger out, it almost gives the other person less power to affect you emotionally. Right. Effect you or even like fight you. You know what I mean? Like if you're not getting angry, then you don't give the person the reaction to the thing that they want. They might stop doing it just because they're not getting anything out of you. Yeah. I think there's that part too. I mean, that's more for like, I don't think that is apropos for this writer, but that's for like what Esther Peril said about her mother. And I think some things that, you know, perhaps we've gone through personally with family members where, you know, sometimes if you just back away and you don't give the reaction, you're not like fueling the fire, you know? I mean, and these things are also like, we have our

triggered section next. These are all like little triggers. And when you're, I think like when you're triggered, when someone does or says something that historically has bothered you, continues to bother you, your initial thought is like, let me yell at them, like, stop or like, you know what I mean, like scream at them or whatever. But if you do the thing that she was just saying, it almost, it diffuses it faster. It ends it faster. Right. It's an interesting thing to realize, you know, with a critical parent or a child who's struggling that if you can kind of identify a positive spin on what they're trying to do, it doesn't mean you have to like it. It doesn't mean you have to be abused or be around someone who's not treating you kindly. But it might make you able to say, okay, you know, like we said

a few weeks ago, like thanking your anxiety for trying to keep you safe. Thank you your mother for trying to make you a better person is an easier way to look at it when you're feeling triggered instead of going to that initial reaction of anger. What if you don't think the person's intentions are actually good? Yeah. Well, and oftentimes, you're right. Oftentimes they're not. You know, Esther Perel was able to conceptualize her mother like that. I don't think everybody can do the same thing. So yeah, I think in those situations, you can just set your boundaries where you want them. And again, I think there is going to be that piece where you have to grieve, certain losses, you know, like, just like single people walk down the street and they see people

like couples holding hands and kissing and being romantic and they feel sad about not having that and they fantasize about having that. I think sometimes with family relationships, you might see, you know, a grandma walking, you know, playing with her grandchildren or two, you know, a mother and daughter that are just like in deep, loving, fun, jovial conversation and you feel really sad that you don't have that. And I think you have to pay attention to that and grieve that. Right. Properly. So if we take it back to the listener where she feels like resentful of her mother, it seems like, or even just inviting this, like the actual action here is that she's going to allow

her mother to bring this guy to her wedding. So it's like, I don't know. If it were me, I feel like I'd be like irritated that I even had to deal with that. Or I even had to like, or also kind of like, it would make me feel guilty that I'm inviting someone's husband. my wedding knowingly that I'm like what if someone invited my husband to their wedding of their mother who's like like I would put myself in his family's shoes where I'm like I'm adding to this I don't know why it triggered me to hear that she was okay to invite this person to her wedding it was I don't know totally yeah I don't I definitely don't it sounds like she's made up her mind that she's going to I definitely don't think she has to but I think maybe she's doing it because she's trying to take a stance or she always has and maybe this is something she needs to work on, but she's taken this stance. I'm not going to fight you on this anymore. I don't want to fight about it. I don't want to have an argument about it.

I agree with you. I don't think she has to have this person. I think that is a line that she can 100% draw. But I also think if she's taking the stance of like, I'm not here to be the moral police for you. You know, you can bring them if you want. I think that's in line with- You can have a plus one, choose who you want to bring.

I'm not now complicit in this. This is on you. I wouldn't put his name on the invitation. Yes. Yes, I think giving her a plus one if she doesn't want to fight about it and she can use it how she wants is probably a good way to do it. But yeah, I think she's just trying to get in this mindset of like, I'm not, I don't want to fight with you about this. You're continuing to make these choices. So when I involve myself in your choices, now I'm affected by your choices. And her goal is to not be affected by her mother's choices because she's realizing that she's probably never going to change. Right. But I think that's great advice about like grieving that part. And you can have some one in your life to the extent that you want to, and you don't have to say they're in or out, which I think is a stressful thing when you're like, I'm either someone who doesn't speak to my mother at all, or we're very close and it has to be one or the other. Like, you can have an in-between

relationship like that. Yeah. So yeah, I just think this writer is right. Like go back to your three points, speak those to your mom and then work on grieving the parts that aren't going to be there. You know, it sounds like maybe she isn't therapy. And if not, then that might be a good way to help her do that. But I think she's on track. It is tough to come to turn. And it can make you sad, I think, when you think of it. It doesn't have to be like, okay, I've now like dealt with that and it's over, like, especially if the person's alive and still in your life, I think you could be like, from time to time, it makes me sad that I think that my mom is not someone that does relationships well or that I don't approve, that I don't like who she is as a person a lot of the time.

Totally. That's what grief work is. It's like allowing yourself to figure out what you're actually grieving and then feel the feelings that come along with that grief and letting them be there. I do think that a lot of people end up feeling like they have to choose you're either in or out. And I don't think you might choose you're out for like, I need a break from you for like a month. That's okay. But it doesn't have to be like I'm never speaking to you ever again kind of thing, which ends up usually is a decision that you can make either on an impulse after, you know, being triggered by something or after like being triggered several times by the same type of thing, you might make the decision I'm never speaking to you again, which I'm not saying there's no

scenarios where that might be the right choice, but I don't think you have to go there. I think you can say, I'm going to come visit you with your grandchildren, if that's an area that, you know, you do well in. I'll let you do well in that area and allow myself to enjoy that too. Right. I think that's great. Let's get into our games. Should we play some triggered? Let's play triggered. My parents live two hours away, but whenever they come to visit us, they stay in a comped hotel room in the city through the casino because my dad gambles a lot. My husband and I have a perfectly fine house in the suburbs with a perfectly fine guest room 20 minutes from the city that they could stay at. When they come into town, we have to drive into the city to go out to dinner with them instead of them coming to us.

Every time they do this, it makes us feel like crap and I don't know how to verbalize this to them without coming off rude. Yeah, I think the parents are just kind of double dipping on. a visit and a vacay. If the dad likes to gamble, he probably wants to stay at the casino and just make it like half a vacation and half a visit. But I could see why that's hurtful because they probably want to share their home and host them. And this sounds like she, maybe I don't know if she's I would love this scenario. 20 minutes, perfect. You're in. You're out. Yeah. Different people have different definitions of closeness or how close they would like to be. And I think it could be tricky or offensive if one person's definition of closeness is like a little more removed, right, than the other person who's like, I want even more closeness. And the person's like, this level of closeness will do for me.

Feels great. Totally. That's true. I do think one, she should let them know kindly, I want to spend more time with you. I would love, you know, we would love to host you. I think sometimes it is awkward for parents to stay once you're married because they don't know how your husband feels. they don't want to feel like they're imposing. I think a lot of parents, you know, wonderfully, as you mentioned, are very cognizant of personal space of their kids. When they're married and they're living in their own space, they don't want to invade that. But I think if you'd like them to stay, you could definitely invite them.

I would give this low untriggered because maybe it's one thing if she asked them and they said no. Right. Yeah, but I think she can express, if she doesn't sound like she says it makes us feel like, crap every time she doesn't sound like she's expressed that she's really would like them to stay with her and they haven't done it. But let's say she does it. Let's say she did ask and they're like, we'd really rather just like have our own space. Yeah. I still think this is pretty low. I wonder what

it is that she's trying to get from this. I still think it's low. Some people don't like to, you know, share in other people's space. Be in other people's space. Yeah. Especially if you're married and you have you know, your husband and maybe they don't know, feel comfortable with him or, but I, I think if he's, if the dad's gambling enough where he's constantly getting comped rooms, he probably just wants to gamble. Probably a little bit of just like a addictive thing. Yeah. And maybe if you want the closeness of spending a weekend together, why don't you guys go see them? Yeah. Or plan on vacation maybe. Invite yourself. Invite yourself into their house. Yeah. We'll show you how it's done. Right. I do think for some people, it does feel weird to like be in someone else's space. For sure. And some people,

And some people love it and they're fine with it and they're happy to get a, you know, free place to stay and stay with friends and family. And some people are just not into that. And I kind of think you do have to kind of respect that, especially if you haven't asked yet. But if it's important to you, yeah, if it's important to you, discuss it. But I think just at face value, I would rate this pretty low. I don't know about you. What would you give it? I would rate it low because I would like it. So I would say I would give it like a three because I'd be like this sounds like a plus green flag to make. You want to read the next one? Let's do another one, yeah. When my now husband and I got engaged, my now mother-in-law is strongly expressing that she wants me to call her mom. I avoided and laughed off the subject for a while because it made me uncomfortable or put it off saying I'd be more comfortable with it maybe once we're married. Now I'm married and the topic keeps coming back up, but I really don't want to do this. I find it very weird and a very dated, creepy tradition. none of my married friends do this and my parents do not expect the same of my husband. I've resorted to just not calling her anything for the time being, but it's coming up again and

again and I don't know how to clearly state that I'm uncomfortable with the ask. She has made it clear. It would really mean a lot to her, so I know her feelings will be hurt if I say once and for all that I can't do it, but I just feel too awkward and embarrassed to do it. Do I need to suck it up and just do it, or how can I communicate that this is something I'm just not willing to do? this is interesting. I haven't seen anything like this, but I do think it's sort of a thing. This is funny. Look, I don't think she has to do it. But I think it's almost a thing of like embracing a culture that feels foreign to you that might, if she could just kind of jump in and like it's a very, I think it's a cultural thing that feels off. Right. But how often are you even saying someone's name to them is the other thing to me? Right. But you have to have something. Otherwise, it's like, yeah. I kind of feel like I agree with you. I think she should, if it were me, I would just say it because I kind of do think that everyone has a right to choose their own name. Yeah, but to choose the name mom for someone who's not your child. It's a little inappropriate and it's a little weird for her. And you can, I think, behind her back or to your husband not say that. You wouldn't have to refer to her your friends, my mom or mom. You get to call her whatever her name is.

but if that's really what she, I always think my friends have, you know, issues with their mother-in-laws or things about like, it's kind of like, how much does it mean to you? How much does it mean to them? How big of a lift is it? Do you know what I mean? Is it like, would I rather call my mother-in-law mom and not, you know,

let's say she wanted me to change the child, my future child's religion. Would I rather call her mom? Yeah, seems pretty low lift or something, you know what I mean? Like something. Right. Or like she wants me to come celebrate this four-day holiday.

I'm making things up. Right. Like, those are things I would be more likely to take a stand on because I'm like, this sounds like really stressful or something that like seems like a big ask. This is kind of like, you want to be called that. I don't really care.

I think it's weird. But if it's, what if, you know, anyone changes their name. You're like, I don't really or, you know,

changes any part of them. So it's like that's about them. So this is what they want from themselves. And it's kind of like, this is what you want to be called. I'll call you it. Even if I don't. I don't think it's the best choice.

Right. Well, I do think it's about the significance of it. You know, like she wants to feel like she's a, maybe she doesn't have a daughter. I don't know the backstory, but like wants to feel like she's kind of a maternal figure to her daughter-in-law. So I don't think it's as simple as like, call me Patty. I just changed my name. You know, like, I think there's more to it with the deeper meaning of like the word mom and she probably already has a mom and feel. weird because like, no, you're not my mom. And I do think this tradition was probably started when people

met when they were like, you know, 14 and were married when they were 18. So it's almost like you kind of, you know, met the person when you are a child and are probably more of a maternal figure versus like you meet some, you know, you just meet someone for the first time when you're 32 and now you're calling them mom. You know, like that seems different. But yeah, I think for the amount of times that you're going to refer to her as mom, it's probably worth just throwing her the bone, even if it feels awkward. And maybe you'll get more comfortable with it once you do it a few times. And maybe, I think the ideal is that she wants to feel closer to you. So the other option is if you really don't want to do it, one, I think, like we're saying, maybe just do it and it'll feel better after a while and you're throwing her the bone

because it's not that big of a deal. The other option is if you really don't feel comfortable, I think you can say, you know, sit down and have the conversation. I really don't. I really don't don't feel comfortable calling you mom. I have a mom or I feel like it's disrespectful to my mother. I just don't, whatever it is, I don't feel comfortable about it. What's your second choice? Me maw. I saw something on the Betches moms where the mother-in-law wanted the kid to call grandma, mom mom. That's all that. That's a weird one. I agree with that. But she could say, look, I, you know, I would like to be, I do want a close relationship with you. I'm assuming this is because you want to feel close to me. I want to feel close to you too. I want to feel kind of

this maternal feelings. I really love you. Maybe we could, you know, develop closeness in some other way. Or just, even if you don't say it like that, maybe just making some gestures of trying to be closer to her might, you know, kind of scratch this itch that she has for the mom title. That's true, especially if it's about that. Yeah, I guess you could, you could definitely start with that. I'd probably avoid the conversation to just do it. But I think your way is probably healthier. Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not even, I'm not saying that's, I agree with you. I think if she just started doing it a little bit, it might, she might be able to embrace the culture of it and just get used to it. And then it won't be, I think it's more just like it feels awkward and uncomfortable because she hasn't done it. And it is kind of weird to call someone who's, you don't feel. Yeah, someone else's mom, mom, if that's not something. Or maybe you could come up with a new affectionate nickname. Right. Isn't mom. that still feels special if that's what she's looking for. Totally. Yep.

Or, yeah, I agree. What do you give this, the insisting on the mom title? The insisting is weird. I give it a five. Yeah, I think I would agree. It's interesting also. I would, as a psychologist, I would be interested in what her relationship is with her mother,

that she's so averse to this. I think that might play into it. Like, is it like a loyalty thing? Does she actually also, like, not really like the mother-in-law? is that like play into it a little bit? Is it, does she feel like the mother-in-law is trying to be like controlling in other ways? And this is just like a remote, the more ridiculous example of it. Do you know what I mean?

I do think that also can happen with mother-in-laws where it's like they make a lot of low-lift requests. And then you're suddenly like, why are you making all the decisions in my home? Yes, totally. Do you know what I mean? Well, there's a big thing, which we could probably do a whole episode on when you're newly engaged and joining lives with someone. A lot of times there's like this resistance. to being absorbed into their life, their family, their culture, their separate life that you feel

fearful of being absorbed into that or lost in that. So there might be some of that going on here. It's like, this is your mom's weird thing about me calling her mom. Like, I'm not, I'm rejecting that because that's not my culture. That's not what we do in my family. So like, I'm not going to do it. But it's almost like you brought up the religion thing. Like, okay, you could absorb someone's whole entire religion because it's, you know, for the sake of the relationship, you can absorb like every now and then being like, hey, mom, can you pass me the potatoes or? Yeah, to me, it seems not as big of a of a thing. I would like think it was silly and maybe like make fun of her behind her back, but I would it's a great way to get all your aggression out. But I would probably just, uh, you know, right,

let her win that battle. But I think if that was on top of like, and you've got to buy like this brand of potatoes and this like I think if it was like a cumulative thing and then the mom one was just the most ridiculous one I'd be like all right like take a step back like I'm running this household totally yes and that's what it is yeah yeah sometimes let's do one more ready yeah my boyfriend and I have been together a little over two years we both have one child from previous relationships and have recently moved in together and become a happy little brady bunch this is our house I moved into his current place he has a framed family photo of him his ex and their child. It's very coupley and happy family-ish. Sure, that's lovely, but I feel a bit weird

having a framed photo of him and his ex as a couple. I wouldn't mind if it was more hidden or in the kid's room, but it's right in the living room. It's oddly embarrassing when my friends and family visit and everyone looks at it awkwardly. His argument is that she is his kid's mom, but I don't have family photos of my baby daddy out and framed, and I wouldn't. I appreciate that she is the kid's mom, but my issue with this photo is that it's the two of them as an love dating couple. How triggered can I be? This is high. Yeah. This would really annoy me. I would not be cool with that. I think I'd give it like a nine. Like that's, as a couple, you can't find a picture. I'd rather have a picture of her alone.

A bikini shot. That's like weird. Yeah. There's a memory of when you two were together. And she's not, she's not, I think if the person to be, I don't want to be like, um, insensitive, but if the person is I would be okay with this. Right. She's not. Right. I agree.

I think if it was in the, an appropriate place for it would be in the child's room. That would be a nice place if they're going to have a family photo and the child wants to, or my other thought was, let's say the mom comes to a birthday party and there's a picture of like all of you together. Like I'm sure you could take a new picture that includes the mother. That's a good idea. Then you can put up where it's like, okay, this is,

the child's mother. You want a picture of the child's mother in the house. That's fine. You don't want to pretend she's like a ghost that doesn't exist. But maybe it can be a picture of all of you, or maybe it could be even a step down might be a new picture from a birthday party where they are divorced and they are not in love. It's not like his arms are around her or whatever is going on in the picture. They're the family unit. Right. I think that's the other issue. It's like, here's a picture of like a family unit doesn't include me. Right. Totally. I think they need to, if she wants to bring it up, which I think she has every right to be, I think that it could either be a picture of all of them together that they could probably arrange at some type of a birthday party or something like that,

or even at the very least, a new picture, if she really wanted to be nice, a new picture of the you know, mom and the dad and the kids where it's like the mom and dad on the two ends, and the kids in the middle where it's like not right not the two of them how about just a picture of the mom and the kid right does the dad have to be in it totally like i don't see why he would have to be in it and again it's like she's not saying like destroy burn this picture in a fire it's more just like don't have it displayed outwardly in the home like a kid can have it he can have a picture of when his parents were together that's fine but i almost think it's like a bigger issue that he's not like yes yeah that's weird let me

get rid of that. Like the fact that he's like, well, it's their mom to me is the bigger issue. This doesn't bode well for me. I think there's some underlying, if he's insisting on keeping this picture up, there's some stuff to come. Right. If it was me, I'd be like, oh yeah, that's weird. Well, like, we can put that in his route. Like, it would just be like, why would he care? Why would he care so much about having it displayed? So I agree. It's like embarrassing. Yeah. There's no reason why this particular picture needs to be out. And if he's fighting you on it, I hate to say this. I mean, I don't hate to say it. I love to say it. If he's fighting you on it, this is worth going to couples therapy about because there's a bigger issue about why he's fighting you on this. And I'm not saying

it's a deal breaker, but it's definitely something that needs to be discussed. So you can tell him, I said so. There you go. We did it. We solved this person's blended family issues. We did it. I hope we're not making things more difficult. But I do think this is. No, I agree. I think. Again, to me, that's the more triggering part. Not like I moved into this house and there was a picture of like the kid and the mom. It's more like I said something that it bothered me and the person thought it was so important that they wouldn't just, you know, let it go. He's arguing and the photo is allegedly still up. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't be writing to us.

So yeah, I give this a nine also. This is not an easy one. And it's every day you have to look at this in your own living room. That's, yeah. Exactly. it's like the memory from this picture is when they were together. The memory is not like a memory of the kid and his mom. Like a pictures are about a memory and like what you want to remember and what you want to like keep fresh. So why are you trying to keep fresh the thought of the two of you and your

kid together? Yeah. Well, we did it. We did it. Great episode. We really unpacked a lot. A lot of wedding stuff in here, which I think is weddings are always ripe with drama and exciting stuff. but send in your emails to oversharing at betches.com. Leave us a voicemail at 646363-66.6294. And guys, don't forget to, if you like the show, don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe on Apple and Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right.

That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Murales Pico, and Rebecca Salz McHan. Editing by Missileo Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to Oversharing at Betches.com We'll leave us a voicemail at 646363-66-6294. Betches