Oversharing - Will His Commitment Issues Ever Disappear?

Episode Date: May 16, 2023

Jordana and Dr. Naomi are reunited in NYC via the Betches HQ studio and talk about the value of physical contact with the people you care about. Plus, they dive deeper into love languages and why we crave certain kinds of connection. Then a listener writes in to ask for help with dating a dismissive avoidant. Can a non-committal relationship turn into something deep and long lasting? In this week’s Betchicist, they dive into the dynamics of a birthday dilemma, where a friend demanded to be the center of attention by asking everyone to “dress down.” Another listener writes in to ask for help with setting intentions during down moments in the newborn phase of motherhood. Finally, this week’s Triggered scenarios involve a napping vacationer and a fee-chasing friend. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham and I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And today we have a very special IRL recording because you're in town. We did a little oversharing photo shoot.

We're changing our podcast cover. sneak peek or behind the scenes I guess totally this is awesome I can touch you I'm playing footsie with you I know I forgot you know I want you like physical touch back off no it's nice I think yeah so can we talk about that is that making you uncomfortable what physical touch yeah no I mean yes and no I don't know why what's your if your love language if this was mike what is physical affection part of your top couple? Maybe everyone's like this. I like it when I like it.

Like I don't, you know what I mean? When you're not in the mood. Right. I'm like. Then it's like a negative. Right. But when you're in the mood, it's like I was having a bad week and when you need like a hug like that it's really really nice.

Yeah. But if you're irritable, the same person can be giving you the hug but the timing is super important. Right. I mean, I was talking about this with someone about like maybe like women and sex or something where I'm kind of like I could go like a long time I think without like sex but in terms of like physical like someone like physically touching me I think that would be much harder right like a handhold or like a cuddle or something yeah totally well we need that you know you saw the

experiment with the monkey then they had like the wire monkey and then they have like it so they separated these monkeys from their mothers as all amazing research starts off um some nice abusive practices. I don't know if they were injured or whatever this case was, but they separated these monkeys from their mothers and then they put them with either like a wire mother, like fake mother or like a stuffy fake mother. Like a soft. Like a soft cushiony with fur and squish.

And there was a huge difference between the monkeys that had this like wire cold mother. Really? Because they could touch them. In terms of their adjustment, because they could snuggle and they could burrow and, you know, even though it wasn't a real mother, just the idea of having like a snugly place changed the development of the monkeys. I have to look up what that research was called. That's, I guess, a good reason to invest in some good sheets for your bed, right?

Totally. But that's funny. I guess, yeah. I guess that's true. I mean, you always say like your love language is like the one that you're getting the least. is the one you're fixated on. Totally. That's true.

That's true. Yeah. So that was the Harry Harlow monkey love experiment. So it's in our DNA. We share a lot of DNA with monkeys so we can relate. But you need snuggles. I think when I was like single, I used to get more massages. Because sometimes, I mean, it's kind of sad.

But it's like it's sometimes you just need to be touched. Totally. It's like not a sexual touch. Right. Just like a touch. Yeah. There is a big. I wonder if, you know, this is a question that.

I don't have the answer to, but I wonder for men, it's a little bit different, where it's almost like, they need a sexual touch. Or even, yeah, like that a massage, like a PG massage isn't going to do it for the same way, you know, like they're more like, all right, if I'm going to go get a massage, I'd like to have a happy ending. Right. I don't know. That might be the case, I think. Like I think a woman's kind of like, this just feels good.

I'm getting like touched. I'm probably releases certain chemicals into your bloodstream of like yeah just kind of interesting but you think I'd be more into physical touch as a love language given that I breastfed for four years yeah well you probably just got enough and you were like okay no one touched me ever again or maybe it's because I got made fun of for like I was old enough to know that I was sort of made fun up for that we all definitely had some had some fun at your expense yeah and so then maybe there's like some shame around that who knows we'll have to dive deeper for sagoner years yes that four more years what was it the clinton reelection or or is it george bush it was one of the presidents getting reelected around the time

that i had stopped breastfeeding and that was the taunt for my older siblings so i'm sorry it's okay i've moved on i think i think maybe not yeah what's you what's your favorite of the lot of languages oh i don't that's a good question i haven't thought about that in a while I do, you know, I think as a, it's funny because like you said, the kind of your love language is the one that you're not getting. Right. So I think as like a busy mother of three, I think acts of service is creeping its way up to the top. Makes sense. Even though it's so, it's really unromantic.

Like maybe I need to do some self reflecting on that. I don't think it has to be about romance. Like it could be about love in any way. Like it would be love with a friend. Right. Right. how do you like to be shown that way? And you could have physical touch with a friend.

You could have a friend hug you or something like that too. I don't think the love languages are really about romance. Or they can be, but they don't have to be. Yeah, for sure. Oh yeah. It was funny because our brother, John was making a joke about how like you can't, if you say gifts, like you can't really say gifts because it kind of sounds like you're an asshole. Your favorite.

If your love language is gifts. Oh, right, right, right, right. It's like. Buy me lots of expensive stuff. Yeah. Taylor Tomlinson is a comedian, has a very funny. bit about like the person like that's just out there to like see if someone's an right right it's a trap right that's really funny I'm just like getting shit like when you give me

when you buy me stuff right that's well if I dig into it what I think it is is it's like a self sacrifice if you're willing to spend your money right on me it's like a feels like a sacrifice in that way right I do think there's an art to like good gift giving like a thoughtful gift yes I agree you know, a check or something. Yeah, but I literally think we know a couple of people like this where an expensive gift, even if you don't even like it. If you just find out that it costs $5,000, it's like the most amazing gift in the world, which is like you just want someone to take what's theirs and give it to you.

Right. But the thing about gifts that I find interesting is that to me it's kind of like the size of the gift, like the monetary value of the gift only matters depending on how much the person has. Yes. Yeah. You know, like if a person has very little, like a smaller gift is the same as like someone who is billing, like how much money would Bill Gates have to spend on you for you to feel like he was part of something?

Right. Right. A lot. Totally. That's a really good point. That is very true. Versus like, you know, like your kid who has no money. Like what I mean?

Right. It's so true. if they took $5 from their piggy bank and it would be so sweet. Yeah, good point. That's true. And I do think it's about like knowing the person. So I don't know if I ever told you the story, but when I first started dating Jeff, he bought me a Louis Vuitton bag.

And it's not, I'm not into that type of stuff. Like I'm not into bags. I'm not into name brands. And it was like this very awkward moment where I was kind of like, I don't really want this. I kind of want you to know me enough to know that I don't want this. So I ended up, we basically ended up having a conversation where I was like, this was amazing.

I'm so thoughtful, so generous, but not my style. Was he offended? No, I don't, I don't think he was. I think he was kind of relieved. Right. Well, that's the last time I have to get that. Yes, exactly. I think there was a part of him that was relieved because I think he had dated a lot of girls

before that we're kind of like expecting that type of thing and wanting that type of thing. So it was a good moment because I had to tell him in order for him to know me and give me a gift that was more better than the opposite, right? Where he gives you like something like cheaper. Right. And you're like, well, I really want you to get to know me. Yes, totally. That would not have worked if it was in the opposite direction.

I usually like gifts that are much more expensive than this. Very true. But I mean, that is kind of true for some people. And you hear that a lot. Right. When you talk about, we get emails on you up and I'm sure we've gotten a few here that I haven't seen about like engagement rings and things like that. Where it's like, you know, how do you? Sometimes it is that you want something more than the other person gives you.

And that's a conversation too. I think it's like a less flattering conversation to have than the other way around. Right. But you do probably still have to have it. Yeah. That's who you are. Yeah. That's the thing.

It's true. Well, I mean, it's kind of like acts of service where there's someone, let's say there's one person who's like super low maintenance, right? And there's someone else who like prefers to like help in that way. And so it can seem like, oh, like it feels like the more like romanticized nice version of it. If someone's like, you know, you keep taking my dry cleaning the laundry and like I prefer to do that actually. Like I actually prefer to do all these like repair my TV and do all this stuff like myself seems like a lot more like a better like it's a better. quality in someone than someone who's like, oh, like I actually really like when someone holds the door open for me and proactively like takes care of these household chores and things like that. You could say that person's kind of annoying and high maintenance, just like you could say someone's materialistic, but it's sort of like that's what they prefer. Yep. That's who they are. I agree. And I do think, especially if you're going to have a long term relationship, you don't want to pretend that you don't need something when you do. Yeah. So, you know, you have to work through it.

But I think what the worst thing you can do is not say anything and be passive, aggressive or like quietly resentful. Totally. That eats away at a whole relationship. Yeah. And it's funny with like the cards thing. I told me, I told you like that's something I've asked of Mike and had to be honest with him and I didn't like his card.

Oh, right. But on the other hand, it's like he doesn't care about cards at all. Yes. So it's just, um, it's funny in that way where like now I don't write him a card, even though I feel like I'm kind of good at it. I'd save that skill for someone who actually appreciates it. You could write me a card. Oh, wow.

I'll write you a card. Your birthday's coming up. Or are you a card? Sort of, yeah. I mean, honestly, that would be, like, just getting a card in the, especially if it's like a card in the mail. Oh, wow. It's such like a nice surprise.

Yeah, I'll keep that in mind. Save your money. Get me a nice car. That's what I said to him. And we had this debate. I'm actually interested here. Your take on this about he's very into like birthdays and Christmas is like the time that he gets.

that we exchange gifts. I'm not even, I don't really celebrate, now I do because I'm with him. But he's very into like, and he and his family are very into like, the gift has to come on your birthday. It can't come like early

and it can't come like, it has to come Christmas morning or the day of your birthday. And like that's when the gifts come. And that's like the only time of the year you really buy people gifts is like on those dates. And we had an interesting conversation

about it the other night where I was like, okay, like I could do that for you. but I actually like just want a card on my birthday and I want a gift when it makes the most sense to give me a gift. Because for instance he had got me like this really nice travel backpack for the holidays last year. And I had a trip.

I'm like December 14th. Oh, right. And he could have used it. I could have used it. And then like I had to ask him. I'm like, can I? And he's like, I really would prefer like you wait until I'm like, this doesn't make any sense.

I have this big trip. It's like right there. And so I had this. And he's like, I don't like getting gifts not on those days. I'm like, okay, fine. Like, for you, I will give you only a gift on your birthday and on the holidays. For me, I don't want a gift on those days. I want a gift.

And like, you don't get to, I was like, you don't get to pick the rules for everyone. You get just get to pick the rules for yourself. Totally. So for me, like, if I have a trip coming up and you got me something travel related, I don't want it on my birthday because I'm not traveling. I want it on the day that I'm going to be, it's going to be useful for me. And if it's not my birthday, even if it's like three months before my birthday, you don't have to get me a birthday gift.

Just call it a random gift for something, an impromptu thing that's thoughtful. Yeah, I see both sides. I agree. However, I think he would then feel obligated to buy you another gift. Well, so I want a card. Okay. On my birthday, you can get me a card,

and that's all I'm going to expect. I'm not going to expect. You have just a nice thought. I think he'd rather buy me the gift, to be honest. Right. He's like, I have to sit down. I have to get in touch with my emotions. Yeah, he's like,

How much does it cost to get out of this? Right. Well, he could buy one of those blue mountain cards. That's unacceptable. No, it has to be like a thoughtful. Do you ever see they make these cards that are like extremely deeply emotional? Not written by the person that's, but it's like there's a lot of stuff in there. So it's, I'm going to send him a text and give him a little tip, even if he copies it.

Maybe you could just copy it into a card. That would be great. I'll see if I'll, I'll know. You know, he probably will know. And he said personal, it has to be personal. Right. We had a U-Up thing where someone wrote like either a text or a card via like chat GBT.

Oh my gosh. It's like, I'll know immediately. Oh, Mike's definitely going to use that. Yeah. I would, no, I would know. That's the thing. Right. I do this for a living.

Should we do some emails here? Yeah, let's get into the episode. Okay. You want to leave us a voicemail. You can call us at 646363, 6294. you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. Should I read the first email? Yeah, go for it.

Okay. My boyfriend and I have been in an official relationship for about two to three months. One day, we just started referring to one another as boyfriend girlfriend, though we started talking in August 2022. He is 33 and I'm 27. In late October, about two months in, I was thinking we were on track to exclusivity, but I noticed he changed his hinge location to L.A. when he was there visiting a friend. I called him and I freaked out because he was thinking he was.

to be honest, I wasn't actively dating anyone else, though I never explicitly said this to him. He said he was still looking around, and we were not at the exclusive point yet. I said my standard is, if you were going to continue hooking up with other people after we've been hanging up for two months, then I'm walking away. I know that sounds early, but I date with intention and I'm very clear about it. He said he felt forced to become exclusive but wanted to give us a shot, though later on he admitted he was glad he stuck around. It's very romantic.

For a while after we became exclusive, it's still saying, seemed like he enjoyed my company but wasn't fully sold on me. Around February, I felt we were becoming more serious. He started to prioritize me more, and over MLK weekend, he opted to ski in Maine with my friends. He hadn't yet met, in lieu of going to a better mountain with his best friends. We spent Valentine's Day together, of course, but a week later on February 21st, as we were booking another ski trip to Tahoe, my friend texted me a pick she saw of him on Raya. You know what Raya is, right? Not really. So Raya is like an exclusive date again. So you have to apply.

You have to like apply. And what are the talent, what are the qualifications? I mean, it used to be that you had to be like famous. But I think now you can kind of like find someone to get you in with like so just successful or something. Okay. Interesting. I wonder what you actually like if you have to. You can't just like join off the street like you kind of like hinge your problem.

You probably just make you wait on a waiting list for six months and then let you in. That's probably true. So her friend texted her a picture. as you saw him on Raya. Apparently he had applied to Raya months prior when he and his ex broke up. He claimed he got accepted that morning, but it was purely curiosity.

Whether or not that's true, it sounded like he wanted to see what else was out there and opted to sabotage our relationship since we were starting to become really close. He said he wasn't thinking how this would hurt my feelings, but his friends pointed out he may have done it because he felt forced to become exclusive a few months before and had not fully made that decision

at his free will. I like how he's like, my friends think, It might be because of this thing. I have no idea. And also, which one is it? Was it because of curiosity or was it because you were forced into a relationship? Right. I was utterly crushed and broke up with him at that moment.

He has that issue that many men have, which is chasing after something non-existent. During a series of long talks after the breakup, I told him he will keep feeling unfulfilled and never find anyone to build a life with if he maintains that mindset. About a week and many conversations later, I agreed to give it another try. Since that incident in late February, things have been really great. I made it clear we had a lot of trust to rebuild and that it's not going to happen overnight. I still have random moments of insecurity and the undeniable damage he did is forgiven but has not been forgotten. To his credit, he has been much more expressive of his emotions and invested in this relationship lately.

He randomly tells me he appreciates me and we've made a concerted effort to improve communication. We spent his birthday in mid-April in Florida just the two of us, whereas a few months ago he probably would have opted to spend it with friends and fit me into his plan somehow. I met his parents last week, which I know is a big deal for him and for them. He now tells me he sees a future with me and includes me in more parts of his life than ever before. He is increasingly more vulnerable about issues at work, family matters, and general goals and aspirations. Over the weekend, his friend told us where he proposed to his girlfriend and my boyfriend joke saying, I wonder where I would propose to you. And probably didn't seem like much to him, but I feel like that means he is now subconsciously thinking about this in a serious light.

He also talks about our future kids and always asks me if I want to stay in New York or I would be open to moving elsewhere. Do you think he truly will be able to commit to me as in marriage, despite early red flags in our relationship? It feels like it only recently clicked for him that I am someone he could be with long term, whereas I know much, whereas I knew much earlier on.

Dr. Naomi, I would love to hear your professional perspective about the challenges of and tactics for dating dismissive avoidance. Sounds fun. I want to keep giving this a chance and see if this relationship has legs, but I am not completely over the riot incident. I feel very torn. Are we doomed to fail, or can we move past it?

The other consideration is he always travels because he works remotely and gets a charge from new experiences. He has been including me on more and more of these trips, which is great, but we can go two weeks without seeing one another, which exacerbates the insecurity on my end. My primary goal is not to break up necessarily, but to foster a healthy relationship within reason if he ultimately can be trusted.

Any guidance or thoughts you have are much appreciated. What do you think? All right. I think the short answer is yes. I think this can turn into something real as in marriage. I've seen many, many relationships that start off where one person's kind of non-committal. And sometimes something like this has to happen where they're brought to the brink of breakup for the person to realize, okay, I really don't want to lose you. I have to step this up.

But I guess my question is like, can someone change that quickly if there's someone who like had that capacity? to them and then they're like, she's like, we had a week of conversations and then I came back into the relationship. Right. Well, I guess, you know, I think that it was very early on. It's, well, I don't know, how long into it was the RIA thing that was like. I think the initial RIA thing was about two months into the relationship, she said. Yeah. I believe. I think if the, if I would be more, Yeah, I would be more concerned if the Raya thing was like after six months or a year of dating. Well, it sounds like it was again after six months. It was initially after two months.

Oh, it was, okay, that was like, I changed my hinge location. Yes, he changed the Hinge location two months. And he says, but they hadn't established exclusivity. She says, I need to be exclusive. He feels forced into it. And then it becomes exclusive. And then right after Valentine's Day, I think it's probably now they're at like the six-monthish Mark, her friend sees him on a different dating.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, look, I mean, I don't think it's great. I'm glad she brought it up and she didn't, you know, necessarily just, you know, accept his excuse and let it go. But I think the actions speak louder than words in this case. So I think the fact that he's introducing her to his parents and he's, you know, choosing to spend his birthday with her and making these sort of sacrifices, is, I think, is hopeful. Like, I really do, like, I want to tell her, this could, this can work, but he has to keep doing the things that he's doing and spending time with her and, you know, choosing her and moving it forward in that way.

I get the feeling maybe you disagree. I agree and I disagree. Because I do think people, there's like chance at redemption. I don't think like, just because he did this at that point means like the relationship is unsalvageable and that people can't change or change. changed their ways of thinking. But she also wrote that in the beginning, he was also like this. Like he chose her the ski trip with her friends over his friends.

And what did she say? Like it seems like his actions are always sort of for like. Right. And she never describes his actions is not really like into her. Right. Which is my, I guess my fear would just be like that he would do it again or like he would have or he's like he's capable, he's someone who's capable of like showing you

that they're into you and they love you with their actions and then also kind of having this fear. Right. So almost his actions are not speaking louder than words. Well, I guess they are and that's what you should be looking for. But if his words are telling you, I have a fear of commitment. Even though he's committing to you,

I think that would be something that would be hard to let go. But I don't think she should necessarily break up with him. him, but maybe it's more that she needs to kind of like ask him what's changed, even though it's over. Like she seemingly might not want to now not talk about it anymore. But if I were her, it would bother me. Like I'm still curious. Like what happened that now you're so committed?

Although he's not, it doesn't even sound like they've had the conversation where he says, I am, like, I don't think he's telling her the words. Right. Like I don't think she's reading into his actions of introducing the parents and all that, but I don't, I agree. I don't think he's necessarily saying it. So I do think my advice for her would be along the lines of what you're saying. Talk to him, tell him, ask that question. Right. You know, what was different from before where you felt like you needed to go on a dating app, whether it was, you know, what your friends think or are you or whatever. What has changed? But I also think it would be good for her to, allow him the space to be real with her and say like all I'm asking from you is honesty about where you are in this relationship. If you're still on the fence, that's okay. I just want to know. So I think what happens is like when he's expressed something about being on the fence,

she kind of gets mad and like breaks up with him. Yeah, like there's like an aggressive kind of angry response. So he might be sort of withhold the only way for her to feel safe in this is for her to know he's going to tell me how he feels. He's going to verbally say if he's on the fence, she might be too afraid to ask that question. So she's not even pushing it. And he might be afraid to tell her the truth because of how she's reacted in the past. So I agree with you. I just think it's kind of crazy that the idea that he'd be like this. She calls him a dismissive avoidant. We didn't call him that. She's calling him that. So he's dismissive avoidant. You have one conversation about how he has to be able to learn how to commit to things. And then all of a sudden

he's extremely committed. To me, that doesn't make like, and dismissive avoidant turn into a securely attached person. So I think it's okay to check in with him. I agree with you that if she wants to actually know the truth and feel actually comforted by it, she has to be able to accept that maybe he still has doubts. And that might be okay. And he probably does, given how he's been in the past. it would be like more abnormal for him to be 100% sure he wants to marry her six months in than it would for someone who had pulled that a few months earlier to be still questioning the relationship, which doesn't mean he's wrong. Six months, you're allowed, I mean, you can still be questioning that, but I think it'd be better for her to get a real sense

of what's going on instead of just kind of guessing. Totally. Yeah. And I think this might be a case if she's afraid to ask the question because she doesn't. I want to know the answer? Yeah. So I think she's got to just, I mean, she's asking us. She's reading into his, you know, into his behaviors, but I think she needs to just rip the band-aid off and ask him where he's at. In a non-aggressive way, just saying, if that's how you feel, it's still,

I'm not going to, like, leave. Right. If she's not. But I just, I'm having trouble, like, just trusting that, like, everything you're saying is real and all the things that you're saying that lead me to believe that you're fully committed to this, I'm having trouble just given our past what to do there. And I think people also don't want to,

what they feel like they've resolved the past issue, they don't want to like go back there and feel like they're like harping on something that like, we already discussed this. But I think she can, if she preempts that with like, I know we had sort of worked past this, but it's still something that's sort of in the back of my head gives me anxiety.

And that's like a vulnerable thing that I think if she comes at it the correct way could lead to a really good conversation. I agree. She needs to know one way or the other. Ask him, you know what? I just thought of this and I wonder if this is something. For someone that's not a good communicator,

even saying to him, from one to ten, like this is a technique that we use for, you know, behavior change. You know, from one to ten, ten is you're going to propose to me tomorrow.

You have a ring in your pocket. One is you're going to break up with me tomorrow. Like you're getting yourself. ready. Like where do you feel like you stand? So then she can get kind of a, you know, that's a good thing for someone who has concrete thinking or might talk around something where he can be like, okay, I'm at a seven or I'm out of six. I can't imagine not being offended by that answer, like no matter what it was if it wasn't 10. What if it was eight? And you were dating for six months? I'd be happy with an eight. Well, I would be happy with an eight like if there wasn't so much like romanticized

societal feelings about how someone you're dating should be obsessed with you. Love at first sight. I knew it from the moment I saw you. Yeah, but eight is a much more realistic, really strong positive. Right. You know, but like it feels like anything other than a 10 is like, oh, this person's not that into me. Yeah, but if 10 is like I'm proposing tomorrow.

Right. But yeah, I see what you're saying. But I think that that's good, though. Like we should we should normalize the like non-romanticization of like every part of a relationship. Totally. There isn't, I mean, it's not even rational. Like, we talk about like the hormone cocktail of like, you know, infatuation and what was

limerence and whatever. Like, it's not even healthy to, you know, feel like. To be a 10. I'm a 10. To propose when you're a 10. Right. Because you're in like the wrong, you know what I mean? Right.

The most rational person maybe should be an eight. Right. When they propose. Yeah. I mean, you're still getting to know someone. The fact that people that move in together after like two weeks, like red flag, there's You know, you haven't seen it all they got. Right.

So let's move on to Betchaists, where we debate a moral issue. Who is right and who's wrong? We will tell you because we know. Judge Judy in the house. Yes. All right. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I absolutely love the podcast and look forward to driving to work on Tuesdays

as I listen to the hilarious scenarios and your sage advice. I have a dilemma I need help navigating in regards to a friend's birthday that I am both triggered and confused by. I have a long time college friend who's having a birthday night. We will be bar hopping in the medium-sized city where we live. We're renting a house downtown so we don't have to drive and planning to have all the cheesy balloons and photos you might expect for someone turning 30. My friend was pregnant for her birthday last year and hasn't really gone out since her son was born.

As a mom of two myself, I totally get needing a girl's night where you feel sexy and fancy and was looking forward to this weekend and letting my hair down with my closest friends. last week however the birthday girl sent a message to the group expressing her desire to be the center of attention on her birthday and wanting all eyes on her when she walks into a room. She then told the group to quote, dress down so that she could shine. As I said, I'm a mom of two happily married and over 30 as are most of the other girls in the group. None of us were planning on tiny dresses or crazy revealing outfits, so the concept of dressing down seems unnecessary. another friend in the group tried to gently push back, assuring her that confidence was what

makes people turn their heads, not fancy clothes. But the birthday girl doubled down and said not to come if we were planning to, quote, upstage her. I know this reaction stems from insecurity and she probably has a lot of feelings about being a new mom. So I do have empathy for the situation, but I'm confused how to proceed. I don't want to wear a t-shirt and jeans to a night out when I get them so infrequently, but I also don't want to do harm to my friend's confidence on her special night. How do I reassure her that she doesn't need us to look bad in order for her to look good while also communicating that I think she's being kind of rude and overbearing? I recently sent her a pick of me in a potential outfit, jeans and a nice non-revealing top

to gauge her comfort level, but she refused to respond to the text. It feels like she's going to be miserable no matter how people dress, and I wonder if I should just not go and save myself from the potential of more conflict. any advice would be appreciated. Sounds like this friend really needs a therapist. This is crazy. I never heard of such a thing. Have you?

No, this is crazy. I mean, I've heard like, not even heard, sort of like, there's an unwritten rule if it's like your bachelor's party,

people don't really wear white, like the bride's white. That's it. But is there a bachelor at party thing where you can't look cute or wear a revealing dress? No. I think that's,

the rules is like crazy. I think it's, I'm kind of like, how did you become friends with this person in the first place that they have the capability of doing this thing? Like, how did the friendship even happen? I mean, I guess it's a college friend. I just think the nerve for her to, and then she goes along with, it sounds like an abusive relationship. She sends her a picture. She sends her a picture and she doesn't respond.

This is someone who's like clearly very miserable, like going through it. And sometimes that like people sort of lash out, I guess, in that way. I mean, we had this discussion on our last episode, I think, where it's like, if you have some unresolved, like pain, you might just be like, it might just be coming out in this insane way. Mm-hmm. I agree. I mean, I, you know. That's what she's not answering.

Yeah. I do, you almost want to lean in and just kind of be like, are you okay? Like, nothing more embarrassing than someone. Like, I think you're losing a little bit. Kind of. Like, can I, like, is there, is there, is ever. everything all right. This just seems like a really strong reaction to, you know, people who wouldn't really necessarily even be wearing it. Like, I can understand maybe she, if she wants to shine,

wear something crazy. Right. But don't tell other people not to, or even if she said, hey, I'm going to wear rhinestones. Like, can you guys just not wear rhinestones? Like, I'm going to wear, you know, glow in the dark. I'm working on this outfit for like a really long time. And like, I think the pictures would look great. Right. If I'm in rhinestones, and you guys wear whatever. And you guys are wearing swipe hats. Right. Oh my gosh.

This is, yeah, I do feel bad for her. I think she's like in the thick of something. Yeah. And this listener is really kind to even be dealing with this. If I were her, I'd get with the pushback friend, the one that was like, confidence is, you know. I just talk some shit about her with the other person. I make her feel a little bit better. But honestly, I would.

wear whatever you want to wear. Right. What's she going to do? And if she doesn't like it, she's going to blow up your friendship because you wore a cute dress on a night out that you're taking away from your kids to go out for her birthday and you want to look cute. What do you think would be like the psychological issue with someone who would act in this way? Yeah, I think she's maybe just feeling like invisible or she's like in mom mode and she wants to, you know, she does. It feels special or feel like she wants attention. Yeah, I mean, it's got to be attention. like from men, I would assume. I mean, or I don't know, just people out.

I don't know, maybe there's issues in her marriage. I can't quite figure this out. It just seems, it seems much. If you're listening. But I wouldn't enable this. I honestly would not enable this. I wouldn't, I mean, she already sent her jeans and like a non-revealing top. For approval.

For a birthday party. And then, you know what you could say? I sent you an outfit choice. You didn't respond. So I wore it. No, or just wear whatever you really actually wanted to wear. Right. I wonder if she'll actually.

I'm just kind of wondering, like, because I don't know anyone who would do this, and this person seems like this is their good friend. So I'm kind of like, there must be something about her personality where this isn't a complete surprise that she would do something like this. And she honestly doesn't even seem that surprise. I mean, she's triggered. I don't know, this is a betchesist. She's not triggered. Well, she said she's, she's all, she's triggered, and it's the moral issue of a should she.

dress down. I do not think you need to enable this type of behavior. I mean, would I wear like a ballroom gown just to fuck with her? Probably not. Right. I would just go out and wear whatever you were going to wear. Which again doesn't sound like it was that

crazy. Yeah. And can you please send us a picture of you guys at this night out? I'm very curious. I would love to see it. If you're the friend who wrote the group text, I can't imagine doing that not feeling completely ridiculous. Maybe she didn't because because she got pushback, she now feels like embarrassed. So she's not even responding. So she's not responding.

That's possible. I don't know. Maybe you could get her for her 30th birthday, a nice session with a local therapist. Yeah. Do you ever get like the idea of getting someone a self-help book for your birthday? Yeah, like a gratitude journal or something. Right. I think someone wants to that to mom. Oh my God. I want to see that reaction. Right. Do you like? Do you like? Do you like? with the adult children of narcissistic parents. It's the perfect gift to brighten the day. But yeah, I want to hear how this goes. Send a picture.

I want to know what everyone wear. I want to know what she wore too. I really hope she gives us an update, a visual. Sounds very crazy. Sometimes you're like, and I was talking about this with some reality TV. I don't know if a Banderpump Rules Watcher or anything. But like sometimes you can like hate a character so much that you almost feel bad for them. Yes.

You know, because you're like something, the fact that I have such strong negative feelings towards you means you must be going through something really terrible. Right. That I even, that's enabling you to behave like this. Yeah, I get that a lot, actually. Like when people are really evil, sometimes I'm like, pray for your soul. Yeah, let's do some intentions. Yeah, let's do it.

I'll read it. Hello, Dr. Naomi and Trinana. Love oversharing and think that it has really found. a missing and necessary place in the podcast universe. I love that. I'm in need of an intention to get me through the newborn phase with my first baby. My daughter was born four weeks ago and has been a world wind. After a difficult birth, we were thrown into caring for her. As much as I read and leaned on those close to me, I did not feel prepared whatsoever. I feel like everyone talks about how magical it is and how beautiful it is to become a parent. But everyone has failed to mention all the

challenges I've encountered during these first four weeks, such as hormonal changes, DM, while breastfeeding, and we had Googled this, which DMER apparently means when you feel like a down, like immediately after breastfeeding or something along those lines, some sort of like psychological negative impact from breastfeeding. Inexplicable crying and stressful pediatric visits. The highs are high and I absolutely adore my daughter, but I'm blown away by how hard emotionally it is at the same time. What is an intention I can use for these tough moments? I know that every stage will pass and today's challenges will change by next week. But in the moment, I feel so defeated and unconfident. Thank you so much, a tired first time mom. Yeah, well, I will start off and normalize

all of this. I do think this is kind of like an probably like an Instagram social media thing where people are only posting like the most amazing moments of their motherhood. I mean, I'm not on there. I wonder if you see any of that where people are like normalizing post part of depression or the negative aspects of parenting because there's almost something that feels like you're betraying your child if you speak. Like you're unhappy? Yeah. If you speak negatively of any aspect of them or your experience that somehow it feels like

I'm not I'm not a good mother or my, you know, I don't know. Not grateful for. Yeah, not grateful for having this healthy child or, you know. but I do, I totally normalize these feelings of, I mean, there's so much hormonal stuff. She's four weeks. So I will say that first of all. Four weeks is like, they say it's even like the fourth trimester or something. Yeah.

Where it's almost like your body still kind of feels like it's pregnant even though the baby's out. Like you're just still adjusting. So this, all this that you're experiencing probably is more hormonal than you realize. and it's very normal. And I don't think people talk about it that much because it's, you know, for all the reasons that I said before, you feel like I should be grateful. I have a baby. There are other people that wish they had a baby or I just feel like it's almost like not nice

to my baby. I like talk shit about my baby behind his back. He's crying. Yeah. But I will normalize it. I've had moments. I feel like a lot of people have trouble even bonding with their, with their babies. from what I've heard until, like, because they don't really get, from what I've heard is they don't

really give you much for like the first few months. Yes. Like they're not smiling. They're not, they're just kind of like sleeping and then like up and crying and then sleeping again. Totally. Mama, didn't mom always say the baby starts smiling like right as you're about to like throw it out the window?

I don't remember that. That's funny though. Yeah, it's like I think they start smiling right around five weeks. Yeah. Yeah. I better smile sooner. I'm out. No, so I do think that this is really normal.

And I remember seeing, I was very young. I don't know if you've ever seen it. There's this movie called For Keeps. It's an 80s movie with Molly Ringwald. Oh, no, I haven't. It's, I think I saw it at too young of an age. It really impacted me. It's basically about like a teenage mother that has a baby, two teenage parents.

And she goes into like a deep depression after she has the baby. and the dad is like 16 or however old he is and like trying to basically cover for her. And there's a scene where she's just like lying on the couch in the dark like watching TV and the baby screaming and someone comes knocking on the door and like the, you know, just like what's going on in here and she's just laying there like kind of comatose. And it was it's an intense depiction. But I think it's really a real thing if you if you want to normalize this. And I'm glad they made that movie because that's,

an extreme case, but I think it's normal to have some of these feelings. Yeah. I mean, I've heard of many people having, I think most people have like some sort of, not the most rosy, positive, like, idealized vision, especially if you've never had a kit before. I would imagine it's kind of like you're sort of like, you don't think about all the like tiny negative things that occur when, you know, you're entirely responsible for something. and again, it's not really giving you much.

Probably crying a lot. And you're probably very tired. Yeah. Sleep deprivation is like torture. So yeah, this is all normal stuff. And so, you know, a big part of the intention. And she knows, like, she basically wrote an intention for herself. She wrote, I know every stage will pass and today's challenges will change by next week.

So like, yes, this is temporary. I think that's a big part of what she needs to remember. but I also want her to realize that this is normal and she's not like not a good mother because of this. If there's any feelings of like guilt or shame or that this is somehow not normal, I think most women have a little bit of either anxiety or depression or something that comes along with being a new mom so fresh in this. Yeah.

So to know that it's not normal, it is normal and it's okay to not enjoy it. Yes. I think. Yeah, and she's got, she's got it. The idea that it's, and I still as a mother, I'm dealing with this whole concept of, and I'm starting to learn this now after 11 years, everything is a phase.

And you think in the moment, and I'm sure there's a lot of, you know, moms out there. Like I always say, Amazon probably, Amazon baby world, like whatever they're selling in regards to newborn baby stuff, they probably make all their sales at 2 o'clock in the morning from moms that are just like, what can I fucking buy to make this baby sleep or stop crying or whatever? So like, you know, I really think that in the moment it feels like what do I need to do?

What do I need to do differently? How do I need to change? How do I need to change myself? How do I need to change what I'm doing or what my husband's doing? You don't need to do anything differently. You just have to breathe. be patient this is a phase and it will pass and I think she knows that um but and it continues you know like I'll have phases with my kids where they're bickering and I'm like oh are they they're not going to

be close when they're adults you know right your anxiety yeah like how they're going to turn out or how thing you know it's like no they're just bickering today like this is no correlation with like whether or not they're going to be estranged as when they're, you know, 25 years old. But you kind of jump ahead of yourself. Well, it's like you said, you kind of make yourself sad for something that might not even happen. But I guess this is more like issues in a moment. Right. She is sad in the moment.

Right. For something that is happening in that moment. Totally. So I phrase it two different ways. One thing I wrote is, and this is not obviously easy, but. my feelings are normal. Be patient. Breathe.

I don't need to do anything. If she is getting in that phase, you know, because sometimes I think the mind takes over and makes it feel worse. You know, when you feel like you need to be doing something differently or somehow it's not normal. So if she can just, you know,

normalize her feelings and be patient and realize. And the other one I wrote, which is simple, and I didn't make it up, but this too shall pass. This two shall pass. Yeah. Where whatever, right now it's a baby that won't sleep and is crying and this DMER thing that you're experiencing,

which sounds pretty terrible. And I will put this out there too. And I think a lot of women put a lot of pressure on themselves to breastfeed. And yes, I know it's healthy and it's great and it's worth trying. But it is not worth your mental health to be pushing yourself. to breastfeed if it's making you depressed or it's taking up a huge amount of space in your head. I would just give yourself permission that if that's something that's making this whole process that much harder, that your baby will be okay.

Right. And the best thing I would assume for your kid is that you are mentally healthy. Yes. It's probably more helpful than any of the breastfeeding benefits. Totally agree. There's benefits to breastfeeding, but nothing that's going to overcome. you being depressed or feeling badly about yourself or because I know a lot of women struggle with that. So I just, you know, it's great to give it a shot. But if it's not working for you,

it doesn't make you a bad mother. Yeah. Well, good luck. By the time you hear this, maybe you're already even out of a lot of the shit. I hope so. We'll see. All right. Or maybe not. I don't know how long lasts. Yeah. I mean, she's in the thick of it. I think, you know, you know, as far as like a diagnosable postpartum, I think it's like around six months, but I definitely have heard it last up to a year after the birth. But I think she's in the thick of it. I do think it's going to start to get better soon. Let's do some triggers where we rate how much people have a right to be upset over triggering

things in their lives. All right. All right. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I have a potential triggered for you guys. Unlike me who can easily go on a few hours of sleep, my husband is the sleepiest human on the planet regularly sleeps like 11 hours on the weekends and has zero trouble sleeping in any location, including on the most cramped of flights.

He should join our family. However, we recently used over seven years of credit card points to fly business class as a special treat for our 10th anniversary slash my 40th birthday. We've never done this before and likely won't again for a long time. But having that live flat bed has over. always seems so amazing to arrive extra rested. Once on the flight, he was mostly enjoying the bigger screen and chose to watch four movies instead of even trying to sleep for a single moment, claiming he, quote, wasn't that tired and would be fine. Spoiler. Fine meant sleeping all day

once we checked into the hotel and the next day slept basically until dinner. Thus, I spent the day exploring alone. This sounds like such a luxury problem, but it was something we probably won't do for 10 more years. He says, I don't get to police his experience slash screen time and he dealt with the consequences. I kind of agree, but I still felt like not even trying to sleep was a bit selfish since he knows he functions so terribly with little sleep. It's not like the plane had an IMAX. You get the same movies and economy.

I don't even think this triggered me more than like a four, but should it trigger me at all? Thank you guys. Screen time policing, betch. Yeah, this is kind of annoying. I can see, I can see being kind of irritated. I see both sides. Right.

where he's like, I'm not going to, like, I'm not going to like go to sleep when you tell me to go to sleep. I'm not tired. I'm going to stay up. But I can also see her being like resentful that she has to explore alone. Yes. I agree. I do think he probably was like, I am enjoying laying down comfortably and like watching movies. Better food.

He's probably like wants to stay up for the experience. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think she was, she had her own expectation of what, how to use that. experience and he ended up using the experience in the way that he want, which I get. I'm like, I don't want to sleep this away. We paid a lot of money for it. Yeah, especially if he can sleep anywhere. Like maybe he was like, I could sleep in coach and I wake up and I don't know the difference.

I want to like get the good food and champagne and whatever class class experiences. I agree. That might have been his thing. Like if I was going to sleep the whole time, I'll just put my head on the window and fall asleep back there. Yeah. Take a Xanax and just, you don't even know what happened. Yeah, so I kind of agree with him on this. I think he can use that experience however he wants. However, I think I'd be a little annoyed if I was taking like a couple's trip and the person slept the entire first day that we were there. Yeah.

Because you'd be like, you just feel kind of lonely. Yeah. And like you're on the trip by yourself. Right. But again. It's hard though. As someone who travels a lot to get on the same exact page of like tiredness and all that stuff.

which, are we going to take a nap after this before dinner? We've been debating to get, let you guys behind the scenes. Naomi and I and our husbands are going to dinner. And we're going to have a few hours between this recording and dinner. And we've been debating a nap. A group nap. Yeah, you text me like a week ago when we were making this plan. So we're going to have a few hours.

I'm thinking nap? I was like, yes. You know me. I always say like on our family vacations, that was the only thing that was like planned. And the only scheduled activity. Everyone agreed on. Yeah. It was like, everyone agreed two o'clock is nap time.

Right, like two to like four p.m. was like the like not, do not try to do anything with anyone. Yes. Collective, cold, dark room shades drawn. That's the life. Recover from the sun. Big napping family. Yeah.

Yeah. So I get his, his napping desire. I would give this low. And I also think, you know, I get it. She didn't want to walk around alone. Right. I don't know if there's a solution for this. Yeah, I think she just has to deal with she spent one day.

I'm assuming if it was a long trip, they probably have like six more days. Yeah. And also maybe just like, you know, get into that, like, be like, oh, this is my day to like myself to explore and like do whatever I want and just. And I get that maybe that feels weird or in a different country, but it's kind of nice. I love the idea of being able to give yourself and your partner that freedom. Whether it's on vacation or not, you don't feel like it. That's fine.

I'm going to go by myself. No hard feelings. You do you. Unless you're not spending any time together, I think it's okay to kind of say, you want to take a nap? That's great. I'm not tired. I'm going to go.

I agree. And when I went to Hawaii with Mike in the fall, we had one day where he went to play golf and I went to the spa and it was just like the loveliest day. Yeah. And it was like in the middle of the thing. And I was like, and then I was excited to see him at the end of the day. We had stuff to talk about. Totally.

And I had like a little me day. Yeah. I love that. So I think you got a chill. I actually liked that he stayed awake. It's like falling asleep during a massage. Right. It's like a waste.

Yeah, he really enjoyed the flight. Yeah. He got his money's worth. Don't be mad at him. Give it a two. Same. Okay. Let's do another one.

I'll read it. Hello, Gerardin and Dr. Naomi. I am up late overthinking and I figured I should enlist some professionals. Haven't we all been there? I'm a big fan. Your insights are truly helpful. I'll get to it. We have a very close friend of over 10 years who is part of a bigger friend group since high school.

We're now over 30. And we all know she is a nickel and dimer. She comes from a pretty well-off family, so I always gave her kudos for not letting this go to her head. It never bothered me when she'd Venmo request exact amounts when the rest of our friends would just say, you get this one, I'll get the next one. It all evens out eventually. But recently, we had a dilemma that made me feel like our friendship was reduced to some kind of service transaction. She asked me to go to an event with her, but I needed to buy the tickets because I had the right type of credit card to access the pre-sale.

So I went out of my way in the middle of the day during my workday to buy these tickets at the exact time they went on sale. Turns out in my rush, I accidentally picked the vendor with pretty pricey fees. I think it's important to note that I did get the okay from her on the price before clicking the purchase button. Later, she found out that others had gotten the tickets cheaper without fees. In the end, she asked me to pay for her portion of the fee. I'm a passive aggressive people pleaser and I told myself I should have known this about her going in so I just paid up. But now I'm realizing it wasn't so much about the money as how cheap it made me feel like I was just any butt with the right credit card and could get her that seat and apparently she had chosen the wrong person because I made a mistake despite going out of my way. Now I'm thinking beggars shouldn't be choosers.

She accepted the price, right? I think this was a little extra triggering because I have recently confided in her how hard my recent 25% pay cut has been on my family. So was it always okay to ask people to literally pay for these kinds of accidents? Should I just be more careful about what kinds of plans I make with her? Love the pod so much. And I also love the meditation and I can't wait for those bonuses to air. Broke, fetch. Yeah, I feel pretty strongly on this one. That she should be triggered. Yeah, that she should be triggered. Yeah, I agree. I think that's very triggering. I can't believe she paid. I would have been like, sucks.

I get the, she said she's, she's passive people pleaser, so I get that she wanted, it's a conference, you have to have a confrontation here where the confrontation is, no, I stopped my workday to quickly buy these tickets for us. You could have said to me, hey, I did some research, make sure you buy the tickets on whatever site, they have the lowest fees. Then I could see you being upset. Right. She didn't give, she didn't tell you where to buy the tickets. You bought them. You actually went out of your way and she it's like her finder's fee for you i agree like what is she your assistant you her assistant totally totally this is another yes to the price yes this is another case of this person has nerve to even ask so i think these friendship dynamics seem like they're sort

of a probably have continued this long because they're like a yin yang where one person just gets to say whatever they want and demand whatever they want and then somebody else is just used to this of going along with it. But now's your time to push yourself, again, as someone who's identified themselves as a passive people pleaser, you think she should go back and get the money back? No, but I just think that she said she gave it back already, right? That's what I'm saying. So I feel like this one might be like a lost cause.

It's a lost cause, but I, but she, I mean, she could go back and say, hey, I know I paid you for like the difference in the fees. But like, I've been thinking about it. And I'm actually really bothered that you even asked me to do that. I think she could definitely just let her know. I can't stop thinking about this. I feel really upset about how this went down. It's not about the money.

It's really not about the money. It's about the fact that she basically, she stopped her workday, went out of her way and bought these tickets. And now she's complaining about the price, not only just complaining about the price, but demanding the money back. This is triggering. I give this a high score. But I do think for this.

for this listener who's writing in, this is a little alarm bell that should go off for you, that there might be something in your dynamic with this person and perhaps other people that you might want to pause when you feel that people pleasing urge come up, take a breath, realize what's being triggered inside. If I have conflict with this person, what am I going to feel in my body? And why is it so scary? because I think this probably is going to happen again with somebody else in some other scenario. And I hope that she can realize that this is a place where she probably needs to push against her grain a little bit in order to feel some growth.

Yeah. I think it's so hard because she's probably not in that moment. Maybe she wasn't, her immediate thing is like, okay, I messed up. Yes. And then when she has time to think about it, that's why, like you said, the pause is so important because it's like, don't immediately assume you're wrong. Yes. And even if you make a mistake, like I think there's something about this dynamic where either, you know, with this particular friend that she's, she can point out a flaw and then she's immediately like, yes, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I did it wrong. Okay, of course. I'll give you. It's like, no, it's okay. You didn't do it perfectly. You did it pretty good. You got the tickets. She agreed on the price. You were still paying for the fees? It's not like you only made her pay for the fees. Yes. But this is a place where she needs to learn. to kind of pause and check herself when she gets in that mode of, oh, no, I made a mistake.

I better fix it kind of thing, which is probably what happened. Otherwise, she might not, she might have been able to say to her, look, I'm not refunding the money. I did the best I could. You agreed to the price. Like, that's going to be that. Sucks for you. Yeah. I mean, how much could we- I would be insulted that someone asked me to do that. Yeah. How much could we really be talking here to split by two? I don't know. I guess ticket fees are sometimes expensive, but like the different, there was always going to be ticket fees. Right. What's the difference?

$30? So I'm saying. The fact that she even asked is like when she went, she's the one who went out of her way to get the tickets is crazy. Like if it was me, maybe I'd be a little annoyed. Right. Especially if I'm like really cheap.

Like it sounds like her friend is. Right. Like I'm really cheap. I see other people got the same tickets and it bothers me on like a, on like a competitive level of like I didn't get the lowest price for the same good. I can see being like irritated, but the idea that you wouldn't just take the. loss is crazy. Yes. Or you know what her option? The friend's option could be call the ticket place

and say, hey, for both them. I saw these tickets cheaper elsewhere. Would you honor the price? I want to be a returning customer here, but I notice that they're much cheaper in this other. A loyal credit card customer. Right. You do the work. Like she's, you know, yeah. Yeah, agreed. I give this a seven. I was thinking a seven too. Wow. We're on the same page. Let's be that IRL energy. Yes. Yes. Well, this was great. Thank you guys for listening and we'll be back next week. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Murales-Puccoe, and Rebecca Salis McHan.

Editing by Massilio Perez. Yes, booking by Allie Freedander. Send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Thank you.