Panic World - Chappell Roan and the Pop Crave election (with Akilah Hughes)

Episode Date: October 9, 2024

Why does it feel like this election isn’t really happening? Why does Chappell Roan feel like the biggest story? Our theory? We live in a Pop Crave world. The tabloid X account is pretty much the modern day AP. Ryan is joined by Akilah Hughes to figure out how this happened and the ramifications for all of us, and especially for the Midwest Princess. Our guest Akilah Hughes is a writer, comedian, and reporter. You can find her work at https://itsakilahobviously.com, and follow her @akilahobviously on YouTube and X, or on Instagram @akilahh. Want even more Panic World content? Like ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, and access to the Garbage Day Discord? Sign up for a membership at https://www.patreon.com/PanicWorld. Want to sponsor Panic World? Ad sales & marketing support by Multitude ⁠http://multitude.productions⁠. Credits - Host: Ryan Broderick - Producer: Grant Irving - Researcher: Adam Bumas - Business Manager: Josh Fjelstad Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Before we get started, I wanted to announce that we are doing a big Q&A episode on our Patreon. We've been getting a lot of questions from listeners about various internet nonsense, and we're going to try our best to answer some of them. So if you want us to answer your question about anything involving a screen, you can send that to PanicworldPod at GEMA.com, or you can tag me in the Garbagey Discord. You can summon me. It all goes to my phone, so I'll see it all. And we all do our best to answer it, and you can find all that on our Patreon,

later this month. I want to just open this up with a really simple basic question, which is, you know, how are you feeling about the election right now? Oh, my God. How you feel? Thanks so much, Ryan. I feel nauseated. I think that, like, the truth is it is just, it is such an important election.

Like, they're not lying when they keep beating us over the head with that. It is truly important. But it's also just, like, damn, the timing couldn't be. worse considering like the options that we have. See, that's what I think where I'm like, all right, like obviously like there's like a 50% chance that say that this is the last time we're going to vote. And I just thought like, you know, for the last one, like it could be better. We could have had better people. Totally. Before the, before the dictatorship comes, I just thought. Yeah. Okay, here's here's a question though. What is more stressful to you right now?

Following Chapel Roan's career or the election? I would say, okay, that's actually a good question because I do think that like in an overarching existential dreads since there's the election. But on a granular day-to-day level, the chapel road of it all is just like, it is so exhausting. It's killing me. And that exact feeling is what we're here to talk about today. I'm Ryan Broderick and welcome to Panic World, a show about the various witch hunts, moral panics, and viral freakouts, bubbling up out of the weirdest most confusing corners of the internet. The election is basically tomorrow, but I think for most of us, it sort of feels like it doesn't really exist. elections used to feel like this show we were all watching together, plots building, getting more intense.

But now it just feels sort of secondary, especially when you compare it to massive stories right now, like whatever's happening with Chapel Rowan. And the reason I think this is happening is because of a little account called Pop Crave. And so today we've got an excellent, wonderful guest, Akela Hughes. Hello, welcome to the show. Hi. And we're going to be talking about the Pop Crave election. and how it's going in a million different directions, and it doesn't make any sense.

And it's all because of these little accounts on social media. So to kick things off, I want to hear, like, when you first became aware of Pop Crave. Like, how would you describe what this thing is? Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's funny that you ask because it seems like it was always around and then suddenly I just knew. But I feel like I've known it as a meme because they always post that so-and-so

stuns a new photo. Stuns. That's their main business model, it seems. I feel like, you know, following pop stars and like Gaga or whoever, it's like, they're always like, Gaga, stuns a new photo. Taylor's some stuns a new photo. The Joker stunts right now, you know. The Joker is stunningly floppy.

And so, yeah, I just feel like it always was. Like, when I think back to Twitter, I'm like, I don't know when it became ubiquitous, but it just seems like it was always there in my mind, like my memory. of it might be just made up, but I feel like I've always known. We're going to dig through like the whole history because our fantastic researcher, Adam, has put together a great timeline for us. But before we dig into this, there's Pop Crave, there's Pop Bass, there's Pop Tings. None of them are connected and there's like a bunch of others.

Yeah, in the Pop Blank, I guess, Universe, I'm only really aware of Pop Crave. I didn't know that there were so. Well, I guess I've seen Pop Bass. All of their branding is very. similar. So it's like you may have known. You're like, and sometimes you see something you're like, oh, is that like, I think there's a parody of Pop Crave that I also accidentally followed. Poo Crave. Yes, that's the one. That's the one. Poo Crave. So I know those two. I constantly confused the two. There's also discussing film and disbussing film and they're very similar. And I never

know right away which what I'm looking at, which I think is actually more of a statement on like the the state of celebrity news, then it is like effective parody because like things are just wacky all the time. Yeah. What would you say is like the main innovation of Pop Crave and the, and it's sort of competitors, imitators? Like what do you think makes it so successful right now? Well, I think that like Twitter is in a flop era.

And so like Twitter used to be a place where you would go to get all of what was happening in this moment that mattered. And that is so I think disparate now that it's like, well, the one place that can posts that I actually know will have the same sort of like branding and isn't trying to be something else is a pop crave. Like it's always going to be a bunch of little minor crap in clips from like celebrities. And so I think that like the ecosystem online is so fractured that like that's the place that I'm like, okay, I know if nothing else is going to work on this hell site, they're going

to be working overtime to give us Ariana Grande on the set of Wicked. Exactly. they're going to tell me if people think that Chris Pine got spit on by Harry Styles or something. Yes, exactly. And who bit Beyonce? Like they're on. Wait, did someone, is that, wait, did someone bite Beyonce? That was a real thing like a couple of years ago.

I think it was, I think everybody believes that it was Senei Lathan, but we'll find that. They were on it. They were like, someone bit Beyonce. So we don't know. Okay. I've just sent you a link. It's a tweet from a username Barry. at Adair, please talk us through what this very pink image means.

Super pink. It is basically translating what the legacy media is into all of these pop universe. And so they have Pop Crave as AP, which I believe is very true. Because Pop Crave is sort of the official line. And I think that, especially in journalism, what we were always taught, is like you don't report on it until the AP says because they are the neutral official source. That's right. They're going to get to it.

Dumois is NPR. I don't know if I believe this. Oh, wait. There's explanation at the bottom. It says, I'm going to say this and I'm going to say it once. This is the original poster writing this. Dumois is NPR because with all due respect, the statement, it's mostly about wanting to hear themselves talk, but they're also never wrong applies to both. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's very chatty. Very chatty. Pop Base is Washington Post. Do they have an explanation for this because I feel like pop. I mean, maybe actually here's what I would say.

Oh, it's because they both use the same. They use the same tagline, Democracy Dies in Darkness. So that's Pop Base's thing. Yeah, Pop Base really cares about that. I think it's maybe because like Pop Base doesn't, this sounds mean. Because I think the Washington Post matters, but like it is not the top of anything. And so it's sort of this thing on the side. It's like it's kind of like you found this and like you saw it somewhere else first.

It's like, oh, good for you. Like, yeah, thank you. Yeah, you did the job, but if you didn't exist tomorrow, what would have changed? Well, pop tings is HuffPost. That's funny because it feels like that's the pay for play in my mind. Like what I've seen Huff Post posts, I'm like, oh, you're always going to cover the daily show. You're always going to cover Kimmel. Someone's paying you to do this.

Like this is just one person who is a publicist who hasn't in at Huff Post. They're not an account of record. Right. No. Like they're kind of like your fifth tier of like, I just want to see if they're talking about this. I don't believe they're right. Busing Pop is Breitbart.

I'm like, wow. I mean, does that mean the only cover Taylor Swift? Is it a cast system? I don't know what buzzing pop is. Hold on. I've never heard of this one.

They're like covering Ben Shapiro like he's like, like he's color daddy. Oh, okay. I get the joke here. So it's, it's a lot of posts about like Gracie Abrams and Sabrina Carpenter. Got it.

Yeah. It's giving blood hair blue eyes. It's giving, It's giving been famous for a minute, but for reasons that are dubious. Yep. You know, they're letting people know that yesterday was, uh, national forgiveness and happiness day.

Yeah. But I don't feel like Wright Bart would ever do that. Uh, what is happiness of Bright part? Being racist on Maine, I think. Exactly. Exactly. Anytime Ben Shapiro breaks through what a rap artist has something to say.

Exactly. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. So I feel like the, the way to describe these accounts is like they're a tab. It's like the evolution of the tabloid. Yeah. But because everything breaks over time, these sites have now completely replaced genuine newsrooms.

And let's go over how this happened because it's really interesting. Our researcher Adam was putting together this little history of like how the tabloid has evolved online. And he dates it back to the start of the smoking gun. Do you remember this website in 1997? Yeah. I mean, I remember it from like, I don't know. I was probably in college and it was probably on its way out.

Yes. Well, yeah, because by the mid-2000s, you get Gawker, you get, oh, no, they didn't. Yes. You get Perez Hilton. And they sort of take over, right? And so it's like blogs now are the big thing. And then that kind of sets the tone for everything for the next 10 years, which is like these websites you would go to and you'd read. You know, that is where you get mail online celebrity in that whole world.

Yeah. And then in 2014, a little account called the Shade Room pops up. Yeah. And this is like, I mean, this is real. the shade room was sort of the first tabloid to go social media only, which I think is really the the switch that happens here. Were you a shade room reader? Are you a shade room reader?

I mean, so I remember it. I feel like it was a live journal. Is that correct in the history? No. So it was started by a 24 year old named Angie Nwondo. And it was mobile first on Instagram. It was like just an Instagram page. Yeah.

So, yeah. I mean, I feel like only through people reposting the shade room in my. familiar. And it was like that weird moment where celebrity news wasn't like super gossipy. It was like very Obama era, right? It was like like here's a here's a really right. Yeah. And it would also be taken down all the time because like Instagram is like much stricter about what you could put on there. Because they want celebrities to stick around. Exactly. Like they need the celebrities. Yeah. So you have to do like a a celebrity friendly tabloid. I think that's kind of where the shade of room fit in the best. But this is from a 2015 BuzzFeed article we came across by writer Dory Shafir who wrote,

if Nikki Minaj about the Shade Room, if Nikki Minaj liked a photo, then the Shade Room would screen grab the like and post it with a comment. If Courtney Kardashian unfollowed Scott Dissick, the Shade Room noticed. If Dion Sanders' daughter posted a photo not so subtly mocking her ex-stepmother, while the shade room was there, monitoring, watching, and screenshoting. This was like the era of like the likes thing. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Searching through, seeing what people. are talking about or like actually into. Right. And I do sort, I mean, do you sort of, my read on it is that this whole world ended when Trump was elected. Does that seem right to you? No. I think that like, I think it has continued to this day.

I do think that like they have a just a lack of things to post about because celebrities I think have become, they've come full circle from oversharing on Twitter and being like a little messy to being very polished. And so now they're back to like so. And so liked this post. What does it mean? During the pandemic, I didn't have a job that was like pay. Like, it was garbage days like first year.

And I had like no real job, not having a lot of money. And I was taking weird freelance projects. And I briefly was a producer for a celebrity news live stream. And so for like five hours a day, I had to do the like stories. I had to like create a FINDA to follow celebrities. It was maddening. I have so much respect for those people because that shit's really hard. It is.

It's like you have to find a story. Like sometimes there isn't anything. They're like, okay, fine. I guess we're going to have to go to Tommy Lee Jones. Like Will Smith's post after the slap. Like, I saw one today. I think it was on Popgrave that was like Al Pacino confirms there's no life after death. And it's like some interview that Al Pacino did where like I did I maybe he like

briefly because it's Popgrave so there's no context. So it was just like a picture of Al Pacino saying like there's no life after death. I was like, oh, I guess like Al found out about it. Yeah, someone told him, God, God tap to sit the text. He confirmed it. So, like, at the end of the Shade Room era, the sort of squeaky clean Obama era, that's when we get the founding of pop culture Shady, which was founded by Will Cosmy. Pop Culture Shady was basically like a gossip account.

And it lasted for about a year. And then it was suspended and it came back as Pop Crave. I see. So it's a rebrand. That was it. And Pop Crave was this small account started by a J-School dropout who was working at Home Depot in Miami. That's what started the world's greatest. Yeah. This is from a business insider article about the beginnings of Pop Crave. So each day, while still working his shift as a store assistant at Home Depot, Cosme would spend an hour. average of 10 hours relentlessly posting content and scouring through celebrities social media pages trying to find untapped data he could give meaning to for the first three years cosmy wasn't making a profit he took many bathroom breaks at his store assistant jobs so he could keep writing news

updates throughout the day his friends and family couldn't fathom it they told cosmy he was wasting his time yeah i you know i love to see a dream payoff you know yeah exactly this man do he was on that shitter writing some art. So the, you were sort of talking about like, you know, it was always there. It sort of always appeared. And it seems like the high watermark for Pop Crave was 2018 when Cardi B replied to Pop Crave by finding out that she was 5x Platinum through their post. Oh, that's how she learned about it. Got it.

Sick. Yeah. So then it was like, oh, apparently like this is a legitimate news source. now. Yes, exactly. I feel like I was not aware of them until like the pandemic maybe. Like I to me, they feel very tied to the pandemic to me. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the thing. Like I was, I'm sure at some point, maybe I did retweet when Carney B had acknowledged them. But like, yeah, it just, there was so much else happening. And then suddenly we're all at home. And it's like, well, we have to have something that unifies us on the internet and on television. And so that was our internet.

2020 was when Twitter replaced TV in America, essentially. And I think this gave them the opportunity to take over today. But in terms of Pop Craves' own evolution, in 2018, it had a team of eight who were not being paid. It was just volunteer. Just volunteers who love celebrities. Just like celebrity news kitties, just posting nonstop. In 2019, Cosme was able to finally quit Home Depot. You know, great to hear it.

Love supporting journalism. Now, wait. Do you know this? Do you know that Popgrave has a website? I have never looked at it. Hold on. Hold on. I got to show you.

It's wild. It's like the worst website in the world. Is it like Craigslist? Is it one of those? It looks like something from like 2014. Hold on. I just put it in the studio chat. So it's literally just Popgrave.com.

And like they're doing interviews and stuff. But it's there's so many ads. It's like almost unusable. Oh yeah. This looks insane. Yeah. It looks. Oh, yeah.

The ads are popping up. It's making my computer. we use. Yeah, yeah. It will break your computer. Yeah. No, so that's, that seems to be how they're making their money because like I don't see them do ads on social, but they're clearly running programmatic ads. Actually, that's a good question. I want to click into it again just because I'm like, I wonder if, because they have all of these exclusives. I'm like, people are paying for it. Because a lot of these people are not popular. You know what I mean? Like I'm scrolling and I'm not seeing travel road. Oh. Okay. Hold on. I know what you're talking about for our

you might not know about how the media sausage gets made. Talk us through your theory here. Yeah. So my theory is like, you know, new bands and new artists and people who have deals but are not breaking through need coverage. And Pop Crave clearly gets eyes. I don't know if their website does, but they're also probably tweeting these articles. And so for those of us who are excited to hear the next thought that some celebrity had and, you know, have Pop Crave come up on their page, there's a chance that maybe we would even just see the name of a K-pop band that we've never heard of. And that's exposure for them. And so I think that there's a real chance, especially because there are so many K-pop articles

currently on their page that they're getting paid real money just to have any coverage of their bands because Cardi B. one time responded to that. Right. I mean, that's all you need. I mean, you know, in the old days, it was like you're journalist, you're at the right time, at the right moment, and you capture. the fall, the Berlin Wall. Yeah.

And now it's that Cardi B tweeted at you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you cannot buy that kind of exposure and these people are going to try, you know, however they can to get that. Exactly. Wait. So in 2019, they're at 20, they're at 270,000 followers 2020.

They hit half a million. And now they're at 1.8 million on their main Twitter account. Fittingly, they were the first to call the 2020 election, which, you know, is a real sign of what's to come. Can you sort of talk us through the fall of media in that same time frame? Like, what's been happening to not prop? What's been happening to not pop crave newsrooms? Oh, gosh.

I mean, so like journalism generally is going the way of, I think, every business that took private equity from tech companies, but also hasn't been able to figure out how to monetize in a social media landscape. I mean, you made a good point earlier. There used to be blogs. There used to be websites. Now, all we do is Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok. Like, this is where people spend their time.

And so there is no way for journalism to make money that, you know, doesn't involve a paywall. And nobody wants to pay for it anyway because there are so many ways around it. And citizen journalists who will do it for free and do a great job of it. They work at Home Depot in Miami. And so that is really like where we're at. It's like we are competing. Like the New York Times does not have, I mean, like, I think that they are still the record of note, whatever, but they are not at all able to keep up with the production just that is required of someone who could take 18 batter breaks. Right.

Between showing people the lumber section. And so I think that it started, I would say it started in 2016, 17. Like, bus feed, I think is the first. perfect place to like look at because it was a place that was sort of a blog at first was sort of niche became this huge space like I mean you know and and and notable and like a winning awards and taken very seriously and then suddenly there's no money for it and so it's like okay we'll go public and we'll lose everything and I think every single company has run into that reckoning and so what we're seeing like in the same way that it seems like Hollywood is just dead it's over

It's over. Like a door slammed. If you didn't have a million dollars that day, you are just not making a career here. It's sort of the same in journalism. I don't want to like put too much blame on the Trump era for this. But I do think that there was this sort of interesting thing that was happening around 2017, 2018, where it felt like there was so much news that it couldn't really be contained by a web page anymore. And so you started like going to your Twitter feed all the time. And then by the time you get to COVID, it's like everything.

is seemingly important because there's like a body count attached to it. There's like a life and death feeling. And like my favorite example of sort of, you know, the end point of this idea is like the Suez Canal, right? Which I think is like the funniest thing that's ever happened. And like all of the internet is just sort of like watching a boat get stuck and told via tweets. Yeah. And like you couldn't do that with a news article.

Like so as that transition is happening, as culture is fracturing into these little updates, Pop Crave was the one being run in. bathroom breaks, which is perfect for little updates, right? Yeah, totally. To be read on other people's bathroom breaks. And what I think is, like, important to remember as we, as we move to the next section of this, of this episode, is that I think consuming information that way is inherently conspiratorial because you're sort of having to piece the story together, right?

Right. There's no time given to it. So it's like, whatever is here now is what is true. And it is also going to change. Yes, exactly. And you start to feel kind of crazy. You start to feel like, you know, like Charlie Kelly with the, with the wall. Yeah.

It's just like it's just my tweets. Yeah, exactly. And I, you know, now that everyone is reading the news that way, it makes everyone act a little wonky and a little wacky. And that's exactly what happened when a little artist named Chaparone starts blowing up on TikTok. And we're going to talk about that right after the break. Let's, let's set the stage here.

What do you know about Chaparone's origin story? Okay, so I know a lot, and a lot of it is like new information now. My first introduction to her was in the pandemic. I heard Pink Pony Club. Oh, wow. When it came out, I'm a big new music Friday on Spotify person. Just putting it out there. And so I'm a big release radar person.

Yes. And so I absolutely remember hearing it. I remember thinking it was so funny that it was called Pink Pony Club. I remember dancing to it stoned in my bedroom and being like, well, this is ridiculous. And then nothing for years, basically. And then last year I was at, I think it was, you know, maybe like a New Year's party or Rosh Hashanah or something,

a friend of mine was having like a get-together. And so we needed background music and some other cool art people were like, this is Chapel Roan. I heard her new album Rules. And I just remember being like, oh, yeah, didn't you have a song like years ago? And they were like, no, this is her first album. Like, I'm pretty sure. So then I checked it of like Pink Pony Club.

And I mean, I love the album. I remember that night we kept stopping to be like, all of these songs are good. They're all good. It's a really good album. And then I guess I'll fast forward. It was before Coachella. It was a real release radar.

Good luck, babe dropped. That day I tweeted, I should look it up, actually. I tweeted, I was like, this song is an anthem. This song is incredible. And no one gave, no one looked into it. And then two weeks later, she performs at Coachella. and suddenly and suddenly

and suddenly you can't escape chapter room but I had I have a friend Erica Turr she's amazing she was the production

manager for Mitzki's tour that just ended and so they had a date in L.A. in April of this year and we hung out after one of the shows and we will never forget this because it was so wild

we were like chapel's taking summer we just know it like there's no way that this wasn't enough like the songs is really good. The song is, it doesn't sound like anything else out there. The vocals are killer. Her visuals

are there. Like, if she doesn't make it, the entertainment industry is dead. They're never going to have another superstar. And of course, it was just a meteoric rise. And I was like, how do I monetize this? How do I monetize being right? Because obviously, other people have the, like, the taste is there. People know. They now know. They just weren't exposed to it. But I'm like, I'm bummed that I can't somehow be rich. off of these predictions because Remy Wolf is next. But anyway, I think that's probably right. Okay, yeah, it was April 5th.

I said Chaparone is absolutely crushing. Good luck, babe, is an anthem. And nine people. Nine people re-tweeted it. Oh, that's brutal. It's real hard. That's really brutal. I don't have a ton to fill in with your timeline.

You pretty much got it. But I want to run through this because I think once you see the timeline laid out, you can see A, how fucking insane it is. to be her. B, get a sense of the conspiratorial thing that our brains are now doing every day for everything. And C, it's really clear that it's warping the election. Yeah, totally. She makes a video for Die Young is a song of hers in 2014.

She was 16 years old when she wrote it. 2017, she gets a record deal off that and she moves from Springfield, Montana to L.A. Pink Pony Club hits in 2020. third best song of the year by USA Today. You know, it's like she's slowly building up. Yeah. But it's not a straight line. She was dropped from her label and had to move home and work through a drive-thru window.

Not a Home Depot. But in 2018, she meets Olivia Rodriguez producer. And later, when he starts his own label, Chapel is the first artist he signs. And then obviously, she blows up. And I think the thing that, like, has made her so popular with. Genzi is that they probably do not know that this is possible. Like they didn't have the like teenagers on MySpace or suddenly on MTV moment. Exactly.

They didn't have fueled by ramen as like a label. Right. Like they didn't know that that was still possible. And I think it really did freak them out. But I think another really important part of this and to tie it back to what we've been talking about is that there is now a bunch of accounts run by young people on their break at Home Depot. They all work at Home Depot. They all work at one Home Depot in Miami, and they're all very powerful.

And now those accounts don't have to do what we had to do coming up in media, which was explained to older people why this thing matters. Right. There is no boomer in the room at Pop Graves being like, is it Chapel or is it Chappelle? Right. Exactly. And like, so there's lots of music. You know what I mean? Right. Exactly. You don't, yeah, because like in every, in every newsroom I've ever been in, there's always like someone in their like mid-40s being like, I don't know, it sounds like, it sounds like Slater Kenny to me.

It sounds like Paysman. Literally. I mean, can I tell you my biggest moment like that? I was working at you. I won't name names because I'm still friends with this old boss. But this was like 2015 or 16. And we had the opportunity. I mean, now I'm going to sound like a corny ass millennial, but we had the opportunity to go to

the like press preview. of Hamilton. And they were like, who's going to care about this? Oh, my God. And then forever after, I was like, yeah, who's going to care?

Who's going to care? I wish they were right, though. Right? Like, I would. Exactly. If only they were telling the truth, unfortunately, we all cared too much

for at least six months. I know. I know. It was so funny because I really did fuck with it so heavily for so long. And then I was like, okay,

I get it. We're rapping about presidents. I get it. It's cool. I do think just everything that makes liberals, like wealthy liberals feel good. Just like we can't go back. We can't do that again. Never again.

Too corny. Too corny. So I do hate to write this to you. The first time Pop Crave mentioned Chaparone predates, well, it doesn't predate you, but it predates you this year. So they jumped on the chapel train February 24. And it was the same day they were posting about Megan, the little robot girl movie, being on Peacock. Me three.

Yeah. They were covering Marianne Williamson saying she's going to run for president. I don't know whatever happened with that one. Yeah. Don't know where she went. And then they tweeted. Vaporized. Oh, okay.

No, no. So they interviewed her. And they wrote Chapel Roan, let us know what her go-to. This is so funny. Well, how stupid is it? So, like, our, my producer and our, and our researcher sometimes don't tell me what I'm about to read so they get this reaction on mic. And I've not read this before. It's so fucking stupid.

I'm prepared. Am I prepared? It's really good. Okay, so the first time Popgrave that we can tell tweeted about Chapel Roan, they wrote, Chapel Roan, let us know what her go-to Taco Bell order is. What unreleased song she plans on performing and release a song. soon and why the initial popularity of Pink Pony Club was actually a sad experience for her. I just love that in the order of that sentence, it's the go-to Taco Bell order.

That's really good. I mean, listen, don't cancel me now, but I think everything at Taco Bell tastes the same, so who cares? I couldn't tell you because I have a rule that I only order Taco Bell after 1 a.m. So all of it is, it's just slop that goes into my body. That's what it is. If it's before 1 a.m. Okay, hold on.

I have. Control F Taco Bell order. Her go-to is... Okay, so in case anyone wants to know. They asked, I've been dying to ask you this question. After the casual cover art came out, you became the official queen of Baja Blast. What is your go-to Taco Bell order? That's what Pop Crave asks.

And then Chopperon replies, oh, my God, it's so rough. Like, I'm such a freak. I love the nacho cheese. I love the, oh, fuck. Not the five-layer burrito. Fuck. I'd have to look at the menu. It's something crazy.

It's wrapped. It's like a burrito. It has nacho cheese on. The inside. Brackets, grilled cheese burrito. But also, what I usually get on tour, I love getting cheesy roll-ups. I always get a cheesy roll-up on tour, but for real life, I get a black bean crunch wrap supreme because you can get it with beans instead of meat.

Wow. I mean, also, like, talk about Strug. So this is before she has, like, a ton of money and is, like, super successful, like, commercially at how she is now before the VMAs, you know? Right. I just want the people listening. I mean, maybe they already know. The cheesy roll-up is the cheapest thing you can get at Taco

about. It is 79 cents. It's essentially like it's a paper towel full of cheese. It's not really any, it's not food, really. There's no flavor, so. I also think it's like very indicative that like Chaparone can't even coherently answer a question about her favorite talk about order without like stopping a million times

and apologizing. Which I think is going to be important for where we're going in this episode. She is not media trained, which is fine. That's totally like neither were the Myspace teenagers. It's cyclical. So Pop Craves' coverage of Chaparone continues. in August, 2023, they announced that her album's coming out. In 2024, they up the ante.

They're covering her a lot. So in March, they write about her three times. In April, they write about her once or twice. In May, they cover her twice. In June, they cover her multiple times a day. Yeah. And by June, that's when she starts to get connected to the election coverage that Pop Crave is doing. Because I assume Popgrave figured out that the election is kind of boring for young people.

but if Chaparroen's getting involved, it might be interesting. Right. Right. Or at least they'll read it. Exactly. So in June 9th, Biden is still the candidate. Popgrave post that she turned down playing for the White House for pride. It goes huge for them, huge numbers.

Same day, she gives her big governor's ball performance, and Popgrave covers that. By June 11th, according to our timeline, every single thing that Chopperon says or does becomes Poprave content. And they're just covering her nonstop. So they're covering, she changes her TikTok profile. picture to Kermit the Frog. She's not feeling good at a performance, so they cover that. Oh, June 20th. She stunts for the first time.

She stunts a new photograph. She stunts for the Tonight Show. Wow, she stunts for the Tonight Show. Oh, yes, I remember this performance. Yeah, it's pretty good. It's the white outfit. Is that right? It's like the bird one.

Yeah, yeah. A Kentucky designer designed it, so I felt very intimate. it. Yeah, it's really, it's, it's very striking. I mean, all of her costumes are very striking. She kind of lived as a YouTube thumbnail in my recommendations forever with her MPR performance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, totally. It's like a permanent YouTube thumbnail. Yeah, exactly. The same face, the heart. Yeah. June 22nd, Pop Crave posts just about her posting a TikTok about reflecting on her own fame. And this stuff is just building. And it starts to get like really nuts by July. She stuns twice.

For those listening, my eyebrows went all the way to my hairline. Really? Two times in a month? That's impossible. She stunned twice in July. That's crazy. Lord follows her. That's big news. This is all heading to a thesis. I promise our listeners. I'm obsessed. By July 17th, they post about her TikTok that she makes about her fans harassing her. July 22nd. You get the Kamala Feminon Post, which important to note a

is the first post that Kamala's TikTok account posted after she announced. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that is a good thing to sort of move over to now, which is how would you sort of describe the difference politically of pop music with this election versus like any other that you remember? Because this feels new to me. Right. I mean, it is.

I think that like, well, for one, I think that, you know, after Fight song and how corny that was and then also the Imagine video, we have. this sort of recoiling of celebrities because they didn't realize they could be cringe. And I think that there's also like a, they don't want to be associated with somebody losing. So there is almost like a real trepidation to be involved in what that looks like when they're involved. This time in particular, especially because we have this unprecedented thing with Joe Biden dropping out. Right. Which is just wild.

I mean, this late in the game. And he's a billion years old. And then the fact that it was just Kamla and it was just agreed upon that it was Kamala and it was like, you know, firing on all cylinders. It coincided with Brat Summer. It coincided with these big moments in pop where there almost also seems to be this restructuring of what it looks like, who can be popular. There's like a new class now.

And some of those people are just not, I would just say like they, they were all sort of like bubbling under the surface and then they had this huge moment. And like in my mind, I'm thinking Sabrina Carpenter, Chapel Rhone, Charlie XXX. Like Charlie XX has been out for a decade at least, you know, maybe more. She was, she was big on Vine. Right. Like, she's like back in that era.

And then it's just like, suddenly this is the breakthrough. And so I also think, though, the thing that all of those artists have in common is that their songs are kind of funny. They're sort of like poking fun at the idea of being a celebrity. They're all sort of me, me. They're all sort of like playing to the 15 seconds on TikTok that you can reshare to Instagram. I think that's right. Those kinds of artists are not the kinds of artists who, you know, typically are invited into, like, they're not established enough, I guess, to be part of the establishment.

Like, of course they want Taylor Swift's endorsement. Of course they want Beyonce's endorsement. These are people who, you know, represent billions of dollars over decades. Chapel Roan is like, oh, well, we could reach the kids. That would be so cool. You can give her a bunch of cheesy roll-ups and she'll, you know. Right. And I also think, you know, like we can't, I mean, I'm being a little verbose, but it's like we can't overstate the pandemic in this.

Like, this is a generation of kids who also didn't get to go to concerts when they were 15 and 16 that are now voting. And to talk about Mitzky earlier, they do not know how to go to concerts because they are driving everyone crazy. Everybody is like, God, where are your parents? Yeah. Why are you? To talk you to do this. Why are you all filming this with a Nintendo DS? You are too young to know what that is.

Right. It's like, why are you doing everything for, like, I mean, for the Graham is an old way of saying it, but that is what it is. It's for the engagement. It's like to do the most absurd thing. And so I think that combining that with an important election, an election where we have like, I mean, just two people who are so different, I think that it, you know, you have people clamoring for that vote. So it is just like, it does seem more important than it's ever been because there were always the standard people who would show up in their way, whether it's, wearing a hat the day before the election or they allow their music to be used versus now where it's like, well, it's important who they vote for because they represent some large

audience of people who really will be swayed because they're just not, they're not adults. Plus this election, you can't, you can't bring back Diddy's voter. Right, right. Or die thing. Yeah. If it's with Diddy, we're going to die. We're choosing that. He's a little busy right now, so they couldn't do that.

I do think that there's also like, you sort of. talked about the pandemic, which I think is right, like, because it sort of froze culture for maybe like a year and a half, let's say, almost two years, a bunch of legacy artists of the millennial era like Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Drake, I think became like more popular than they should have been in it, like if history had gone a different way. I don't know if the era's tour would have been as big. Right. And I think that sort of maximalist moment of pop music created this response now, which is in turn sort of goaded along by a totally different celebrity news landscape that is not looking for these slick sort of like overproduced. Super polished.

Right. They need the updates. And Taylor Swift is not doing the updates. She's not living her life. She's in some sort of like contract marriage with Travis Kelsey or whatever. That's my own personal theory. I mean, listen, I agree. I think that the NFL really wrote that finish last year.

I just think it's interesting. that she was able to take a jet to the Super Bowl from Japan, but she didn't show up to Travis's game this week. So she was busy. Right. Seems a little strange to me. It is strange. Anyways.

As the kids said. It is not mathing. Back to our chapel Popgrave timeline. In August, she stuns 10 times. Wow. That's too many. That's when you know, it's like, uh-oh. Someone else needs to start stunting.

Yes. The focus has become laser focused. Well, and the coverage is getting darker, too. So, like, they're definitely writing about like her massive crowds at Lala Paloosa, but they're also writing about how she's struggling with fame and how she can't really figure out how to be famous. And as this is happening, that's literally the same week is when they do the Tim Walls Harris Camo Hat. Yeah, where it's a direct rip-off of the merch. It's such an interesting thing where it's like the celebrity news ecosystem, this new

ecosystem is mining her for content like blood from a stone. But then also the the the Harris campaign is doing the same thing to this girl. It's crazy to me. And like no one is sort of saying that this is weird, which I think is strange for, you know, multiple generations that grew up with like the Britney Spears shaved head moment. Right. It is odd that a political candidate is doing this. Yeah.

So by late August, she's talking, she's putting out videos about harassment that she's receiving from her fans. And of course, Popgrave is covering those. She then does a couple days later, she does the written statement about her fans and fan culture. Popgrave covers that. They reposed her TikTok about her issues with fans. It is like such a classic downward mental health trajectory of a famous person, but done through a lens that would not have been possible in the 90s.

It's almost like more intense to me. I would say yes and no. Yes, because we're all on our phones. Like I think so it's like it's unavoidable in a way where, you know, I think about Amy Winehouse, where it's like, it's on TV and that's where we were getting our stuff back this. And it also, like, I think culturally mattered more what, you know, Jimmy Fallon is saying or, you know, David Letterman or whoever is saying about her versus now. But it's also like fandom has changed.

It is much more parisocial. You can't just leave it at the concert. It's like who you rep is your whole personality because we all have to present something online. And so aligning as a Chaparone fan, you know, means something. Whereas like if I just enjoyed Amy, White House's music that doesn't mean anything. I don't have to defend her, even though, like, you know, maybe in hindsight I would have wanted to, but it's like the reality just is like it's different now.

It's an identity type. Yes. We keep touching on it. But like the reason I keep bringing up the pandemic is that I think that like we didn't have high school in the way that we did. And this is literally like a four age, four years of age that is like trailing her that I think is just like, oh, you don't know that like this, there's more to your life. life than this. Right. As someone who like spent most of my teens and early 20s on Tumblr,

I have definitely seen sort of like the very visceral and very violent reaction of when an underserved community is given media that they want and like for the first time. And you sort of see this with like a lot of the stuff that starts to happen at Chapel Rhone in the back half of September when things get very dark and very reactionary against her is, you know, she's the one saying that like she didn't perform at the White House and wanted to read Palestinian. in poetry, but then the president was going to, like, hurt her family or some weird thing. I'm like, I don't know. I mean, yeah, maybe Joe Biden's going to come to her house and like, fuck her up.

I mean, he's a weird old man, but like... That's his last act before his bones give out. Yeah, but she's also like this young woman who clearly is, like, trying to maintain authentic, but her community and her fans are beginning to turn on her. The antis are popping up the sort of, like, infighting that you would see on Tumblr 10 years ago is, like, coming back. And so that's when, you know, she announces that she's selling merch that's going to go to Palestinian aid. She's opening up about her depression.

And bipolar disorder. She did talk about that. And bipolar disorder. And at the height of all of this is when she makes a very small statement about not feeling comfortable about endorsing Kamala Harris. Yeah. She says, I have so many issues with our government in every way. There are so many things that I would want to change. so I don't feel pressured to endorse someone.

There's problems on both sides. I encourage people to use your critical thinking skills. Use your vote. Vote small. Vote for what's going on in your city. And then the Guardian continues and writes, the change that Chaparone wants to see in the U.S. this election year is, quote, trans rights. They cannot have cis people making decisions for trans people, period.

I think that's pretty clear, but because sites like Popgrave, not Popgrave itself, mind you, but the imitators tweeted that she wasn't endorsing Kamlo without any context, people freaked out. of course. So the thing that helped her blow up is now terrorizing her. And because of that, she then feels compelled to make this TikTok addressing it. Here, let's take a listen. I just woke up and to like people just skewing it even more. Obviously, fuck the policies of the right, but also fuck some of the policies on the left. That's why I can't endorse because there is no way

I can stand behind some of the left's completely transphobic and completely genocidal views. So no, I'm not going to put, I'm not going to settle for what the options that are in front of me. And you're not going to make me feel bad for that. So, yeah, I'm voting for fucking Kamala. But I'm not settling for what has been offered because that's questionable. You can see her sort of like being backed into a wall by media coverage and she's like trying to do the right thing, but she's found herself in this like weird infighting thing with like the campaign like literally monetizing her and like trying to use her. And so I don't sort of blame her for being uncomfortable about it. But it then leads directly into the SNL performance, which was last week where she's like a Thai hippopotamus because that's how culture works now.

Yes. Yes, exactly. we all have to know what's happening all the time, even if it's a hippo that is just wet. It's just a wet baby hippo, but now it's everybody's personality. Before we move to the break and we sort of talk about how this is having a larger impact on democracy, how would you cook and eat Mudang? I mean, you know that that I like brazed that because it's already so moist that I'm like, yeah, that's falling off the ball. Yeah, just like, yeah. Just some sweet baby rays.

Yeah, so sweet baby rays and an open flame. That's all I want. Yeah, exactly. Once you get that big gray part off, that's delicious. You can tell us. We're going to finish that thought after the break. Okay, so we're going to take this on home. This is the last section here, and we're going to make everything really unfun.

And we're going to start with, I have a question for you. Can you click on this link that I'm about to send? you and just sort of describe what it looks like. Perhaps you are familiar with the account. It's got 3 million followers. It's on X. It's very popular. But give a little click and tell me what you think.

Tell me what's going on here. Okay. It's the end-wokeness account. And it does have a ton of followers. And it is just, I would say, the worst of the worst. It is reactionary. Right wing, very conservative, looking for any ammunition to push an agenda, which is anti-gay, anti-trans, anti-black, because, you know, in wokeness, woke has so loath been actually defined. I've heard that people don't like woke anymore.

I heard that it's bad. Ever since woke things have been bad. But the definition for them seems to be anyone that's not straight, white. over the age of 50. That's right. And American. That's the main thing, too, is that you'll notice that it's very anti, basically any leader from anywhere else because it is so pro-Trump. I am familiar with this, this page because, you know, anytime you go on, I still call it Twitter.

I don't care. It's Mama Nave it Twitter. I'll call it Twitter. And anytime you call on Twitter, there is like the four you page that you have to try to get away from. And they push this very heavily. Okay. I got another account for you. So this is, click this.

count and once again, so talk us through how it looks, what, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, okay, so Harris wins. I am, I think I'm familiar with this page, unless there are just, like, a lot of other ones. I think this is the main one. So, okay, so almost a million followers. It is clearly just like, I mean, it's, it's, it's sort of a neoliberal heaven. It's, like, very much, you know, lauding everything good that happens for Kamla's career. It's a lot of clapbacks. We have. We have. you know, Michelle Obama at the D&C. They love, they love when Kamla claps back. Yeah. Oh, it's so important. The most recent one is the, I don't know if you saw the Sarah Huckabee Sanders, uh, most recent clap back on Call Her Daddy podcast. I did see that.

Yeah. But yeah. So it's, and weirdly that's not posted. So I'm like, they're a little bit slower. They're a little bit less. It seems like directly in the sauce. But their big, their big retweets tend to come from them just posting clips of anyone saying that Kamala is got.

Now, if you landed on Earth yesterday and I gave you those two accounts and Popgrave, would you say it's fair that they're all kind of doing the same thing for like their niche? 100%. It is just posting through it for people who are addicted to this thing. And so it's like the left wing people who are absolutely just desperate for Kamala's win and voting is the most important thing on the planet. And there's nothing else happening. That's why you would follow that account. I would also say that, like, yeah, in wokeness is like, I'm a hold up in my house and I just want to be angry and this feeds that need minute by minute. Like, I don't have to leave.

And wokeness is pop crave for someone whose adult children don't speak to them anymore. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And I think Kamala wins is pop grave for someone who is paying their adult children's rent. Yes. That would be the difference. A hundred percent.

Their adult child is lying about it. Exactly. They never paid their own phone bill. That's for sure. They're Bushwick DJ, adult son. Yeah, it's family plan until they're dead. Family plan. Yeah, exactly.

I actually found out the other day that a friend of mine is on his family's checking account still. And so he like has to. That's a thing you can even do. I didn't know about that. I've never heard of this before. He's like, yeah, like, I'm on my family's like checking account. So like I had to get like a second checking account so I could like buy drugs with that

checking account. And I was like, first of all, don't buy drugs with your credit card. Right. Exactly. Like it's cash only. my guy. But secondly my guy. But he's like 27 and I was like you got to get you got to get your own checking account. Right. Yeah. Like even if it's daddy's money, you still got to do that on your own. I'm sorry. You got to launder it. You got to launder it. Right. Right. So so the point with

all of this is that like these accounts are more popular than I mean, you know, let me see and then. CNN has a paywall now. So yeah. I mean, that's such a huge point of this, right? But like just for comparison and wokeness has three million followers so like okay fine that's like pretty big new york times is 55 million on x both on x if you look at the engagement though it is not even comparable like i mean the most recent new york times uh tweet i'm looking at right now uh was 10 minutes ago it's got 10 retweets the most recent uh and wokenness clip yeah 10 the most recent and wokenness post was 50 minutes ago and it's got 620 and it's a second and it's a second and it's a CNN clip, which I'm guaranteeing you is getting more engagement than the CNN version of that

clip, if they even shared it. Totally. And it's only just inspired. I mean, if there is engagement on the CNN one, it is now because of invokness and it's all the haters showing up to be like, I hope you got a doctor family. Exactly. And so like this whole idea of this world that Pop Crave created is having these like profound effects on politics, on pop culture, on how we think about celebrities, how we think about power, how we view the world. And I do think it's making us all. And I do think it's making us all kind of nutty because I don't think you're supposed to be reading news this way all the time. Never.

I actually think never. I think that like it just think it makes more sense. I mean, you should be hearing about your news in a weekly podcast. Exactly. Hosted by potentially us. Hosted by us. We are right and everyone else is wrong.

But I just think that like news takes time and, you know, we can go back to the 80s with cable news making news a really volatile place where it's just like, well, we have. to fill the time. So anything and everything can be news. And unfortunately, social media has sped the collapse where now we are at a place where, yeah, every second has to be news because also like I want to go back to what you said about it being conspiratorial because like not only are you looking all the time at it, but you form your opinion quickly.

So you're constantly looking for something to back it up because you're always prepared to be in some debate with some stranger about what is true and you're like, I need my sources and my source is a guy who works at a Home Depot. But he said two minutes ago and so that must be the truth because that's the most recent thing. And we have this recency bias where it's like, well, that must be right. It has pushed us to a place where Chapel Roan has to be news. It can't just be that she's doing a concert tonight.

It has to be that if she took a shit and for some reason it came out of weird shape, that's the news. I mean, look, I would love if poo crave, I mean, it already exists. So technically. I also think that chapel is such a great reflection on the state of a human being who lives in this world. Like, I look at her and I'm like, oh, this is the impact that these accounts are probably having on all of us. Yeah, 100%. And we're not even really thinking about it because they're not pointed at us.

Right. But we're behind it. And I think it's inseparable. Like, we're part of the same system. In the same way that like during the viral news era, we were all like thinking like very basically about the world. Like, you know, this kid opened a lemonade stand to, like, raise money for his mom's chemo. And everyone's like, that's so nice. Because, like, no one was thinking, why can't the mom pay for her treatment?

Exactly. Yeah. Like, we never want to do the second thought. It's always one of the first is. And I think that, like, for a lot of, I mean, maybe even just evolutionarily, that's the safest place to be in. Because it's like, oh, well, now I don't have to do the existential dread of what this actually means about us and about humanity and about how we got to this point. Like, that's not fun. It's more fun to just fight with people on the other.

internet about whether Chapel Road has to endorse a president and if it matters or not. Right. That's exactly right. To sort of connect to a previous episode that we did on the show about Springfield, Ohio, you know, luckily no one got hurt. Yeah. In Springfield, Ohio. But you can see how all of these accounts, including Popgriff, which was covering it, you know, if they point their lens at a town, it becomes like the chapel row of towns. Like it's, the internet sort of has this beacon. And if it lands on you now, it will be a second by second, as you said, news cycle, not a 24-hour news cycle, which is, I think, psychologically extremely stressful. No, I mean, it's like a nightmare.

And I think that, like, you made a great point also about just sort of like, she doesn't have media training. And she also is of an era of pop music where you, like, no one does. And so there is just, the only thing there is is posting through it. There's never a moment to say, this doesn't matter. It'll blow over. or this like even if it doesn't blow over like you don't have to say anything because of course not like the answer is you defend yourself all day because that is how you become i mean if you get good at that

that's a brand you know what i mean like when she claps back and people like it that's a good day so it's like you know and i also think if you're a smaller artist who has this meteoric rise there is an allure of being the news because you know what it was to not be the news yeah exactly And so like if you don't say something, well, then maybe, you know, the younger, whatever version of you will and you don't want to be in the cold. Exactly. So it's like, damned if you do, damned if you don't. But it is like, what's the limit? When, when are we going to say maybe don't push her to kill herself by discovering every single thought she's ever had?

I think there are people inside the Harris campaign that understand that they can't be contra. Like the Democrats can never be Trump. They want to pretend like they could throw bombs like Trump, but they really can't. So by aligning themselves with something kind of like, you know, as you said, Mimi and dangerous and kind of controversial like Brat Summer or Chapel Rhone and like Winky, they can almost like launder the controversy in a way without having to be controversial. Right. Right. Like if something, I mean, I don't know that anything has, but if something came out about Charlie XX, X, X, X, it still wouldn't blow back on their campaign that she said. Like when she was doing cocaine at the possibly cocaine at the boiler room set.

Right. Exactly. You see the video? Yeah. Yes. And it's like, you know, that doesn't ever come back to bite Kamala Harris because it's like, well, you know, we're just in on the meme. Right. So if it becomes a problem, like, well, we're all, you know, we're all implied.

Yes. My hands are clean because Kamala didn't, Kamala wasn't at the boiler room. You know what I mean? Right. Right. And like, you know, I would love if Obama was president now and the Kendrick Drake beef happened, I'd love to be in the room with his team discussing if they should. talk about it. Because like you know that they would be,

they would be discussing it probably. Yeah. Oh, totally. I mean, like this is a whole other episode if you haven't already done it. But I'm like, I kind of think that like Kanye is absolute fall from grace and everything comes from Barack Obama calling him like a dumb ass in 2012.

Oh, I think that like, because it came a huge story. And then suddenly it was like the black guy that we are all obsessed with who is like change and hope says that I'm terrible. I'm voting for. Trump. Yeah.

And I'm going off the rails. And that was like such a moment of the cable news Obama era where like and Obama, you know, there's been presidential candidates since the very beginning that have tapped into whatever era of pop culture existed then, you know, JFK very famously like first kind of TV president. But like Obama really figured out this way of playing with the shade room era of brand safe social media and, you know, finding the line of. controversy then. And I think this is just the same thing, but the stakes feel higher now because

like everyone's Justine Sacco in a way. Yes, everyone is just one moment away from being on a plane and waiting for the Wi-Fi alone. Yes, exactly. What did I do? What did I do? Yeah. Do you feel like all of these update accounts are the reason why this election doesn't feel like it's actually happening? Yeah. I think so. I mean, I think too that like, you know, know, we've been conditioned over a few years to get our news this way. And so because of that, it doesn't really matter if we miss something because something else is coming. And I think that like the fear that I have about it is that the next thing that's coming is the election and people are going to be like, oh, yeah, I was supposed to care way long ago. Like, what did I do?

But I do think that like when it's that much, I hate the word content. But I think the pop crave is explicitly content. Yeah, it is pure content. Like they are putting, they're putting the stuffing in the stuffed animal. I think that, yeah, I think that it's like that becomes the story of the day. It's what these campaigns are chasing. They would kill to have that kind of coverage. And unfortunately, it means that it means less to like my day to be life.

Like I can't care actually that Trump said this. And I also think, I mean, maybe we take it back to the mind-numbing effect of 2016 to 2020. But there was so much news. Trump is very gifted at creating news that after a certain point, you just don't care what it is. Because I'm like, let me guess it was something messed up. Yeah. Something bad happens. Oh, did you say something fucked up?

That's crazy. He went after somebody and now they're fighting for their lives in the comments. Interesting. Well, like, you know what's really interesting is, so yes, we're recording this on Monday, October 7th. So yesterday I was out at seeing the substance. Great movie. Yeah. And when I got out of the movie, Elon Musk had done his like fucked up.

little jump. He's like weird little gross jump. Yeah, with his two small shirt. Yeah. And so like when I have a I use an app for like saving stuff for garbage day. And so I was like just saving all these tweets that like were funny and interesting. Yeah. And then I opened them up this morning. And I was like staring at them. And I was like, wait, like I don't have anything interesting to say with this because this isn't interesting. It's like kind of funny that he did like a fucked up little jump that was gross. But like other than that, like there's no there. There's no there. There's no there. Right. And it did kind of shock me. where I was like, oh, that's like almost everything now.

Like, there's not much to it. Right. I mean, honestly, like, you know, there are all of these studies talking about how young people are becoming depressed from social media. And I think their theory is like, oh, it has to do with like body image and they're seeing so many different faces. And it's just like their brains cannot handle this competition. But I actually think a big part of it is that how can anything matter?

Like when I was a teen, I think it's because the teens aren't using the substance. If they don't be a baby. Be a baby. Be become a baby and then keep that baby for I don't want to do any spoilers as a substance, but you keep it in a closet and you take it out every other week. Yeah, you got to just, yeah, feed it after midnight. Exactly. No, I think you're totally right.

I think I think it's because there, you feel very stressed out and yet there's nothing to be done. And nothing changes. And nothing's there. There's no like it feels like every day is still COVID, but it's, you know, yes, the pandemic is still happening. please don't yell me. But like it doesn't feel like it matters anymore to be that stressed out all the time. Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, I think that like it is the perfect one-to-one of this moment we're in is like,

well, we were inundated and we were told it didn't matter anymore. So of course, now we're being inundated and nothing can matter. Exactly. That's right. Everything is content and nothing matters. Yeah. That's the saddest revelation we've come to. To bring it back to like the question I opened with today, like, do you feel like,

Do you feel like this is better or worse than how we covered, let's say, 2016 or 2020, for election-wise? I will say that I believe after doing a daily news show through an election, that I think elections just suck. I think that they're just different every time, but they always suck. Like, I think it is just a drain on our psyche. I think that, like, it becomes combative because we have two options. And suddenly you have to defend your choice. even though it could just be as simple as like, I don't have to defend my choice.

I'm going to go forward. And so, but now it's like every minute we are given a reason to reconsider a choice. And we are asked to defend the choice. And it's like as we get closer and closer, there's more and more of it. And I'm like, oh my God,

Jesus be the week after the election. So I don't have to like consider it or defend myself in this choice. And I think that like just the media structure as it is. I mean, I dread getting on social media now. I think I felt that way since Tumblr died. But I do feel that way more and more because I'm like, what messed up thing is going to dictate the conversation that has really no bearing on my day to day life, but has

to matter because I'm on this website. I think that's right. So I am an election sicko. Like I enjoy them. I'm having a lot of fun right now. Yeah. Like I mean, during the 2000. What did travel I have for lunch?

Yeah. Like during the 2010s, I covered like a dozen elections around the world. And I really enjoyed them not for like the ticking clock of who's voting for what. But I do think like these moments when a whole country gets together and has like essentially a referendum on their future is always inherently interesting. Yeah. Sometimes often lately depressing. But it is interesting. And I think like the election itself right now in America is not interesting.

But the other things around it are. So like I'm my read on this election and maybe you, you differ on it. But like my read on this current election is that it is a referendum on what the American woman is and looks like and can do and be. This is like this is and I think the use of pop music is like very important in this because both sides are going like women's health care. Women's reproductive rights are this and the other one's going is this. And you know, Kamala Harris is on color daddy like literally this week. Like it's this is the election to me. And every election is different.

Like the 2016 election was very much like essentially half the country being like a black guy was president and now we're all fucking psychotic. Yeah. Exactly. It ruined my grandma and now that would be bad ruined. I mean, also just like to piggyback on because I think you're right, all of this is so intertwined and it is about women in a way that I think like 2016 wasn't even though Hillary was there. It was like that was maybe just about white women. No one really, no one really thinks about Hillary, you know, in like a meaningful way.

No, not at all. And so I think that like this is of all of the elections ever in this country. the most about women. But the thing that I wanted to bring up is, like, think about pop music right now. Men are nowhere. No. Men are nowhere. It was Kendrick and Drake and then they just dropped off.

Right. And like country will have us believe that Morgan Wallet had the number one song all year, but no one knows how it goes. So people like Shaboozy's bar song. Right. Shibu Zee was a big hit. I think you make a good point though, which is like a man's place is away from culture at the bar. Yes.

And like women should be online making posts and we're figuring. figuring out the future of this country. And like, that's what pop music reflects right now. Yes, absolutely. I'm like, who's selling out tours? Who's canceling the tour, Justin Timberley? Because the girls don't care what the dudes are doing. He went to the bar too much, actually. He went to the bar too much. Frankly, he loves the shoozy song, and that's a problem. Yeah. No, I think you're totally right. I think you're totally right. Is there a moment where we all go like, this is crazy? I don't need to read these accounts all day. Or is this a thing where there's, there's just going to be more of them? Well, I think that there will always be more and more because I think like, you know, to the point about old tabloids being sort of just like that's gone by the wayside, people still want to be updated on celebrities. And there is like a, I think a worsening fascination with celebrities because they have to be online.

Like when I was a kid in the 90s, I mean, I remember like the dream of being famous was mostly that people would leave you alone. Like they couldn't touch you. Wait, you wanted to be famous to. be alone? Well, I just, I mean, like, wow, here comes therapy. I just think that like, let's unpack this. Right. I mean, I think about like a George Clooney or a Brad Pitt where it's like, they don't have a comment section they are beholden to. And like at the beginning of social media, the dream was to go legit. It was like, someone will see this and pay me enough that I don't have to be here with you fucking people. Right. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And now it's like,

you have to be here. In fact, the goal is to be here. And so, So I think that we have, until people do go touch grass, like, I think that people will age out of it. But I think there's always going to be a younger class of person, and especially with like a billion people having a billion followers now. You know what I mean? Like, there are famous people I'll never know about who are like, if I walked down the street and said I didn't know that, people would be like, you live under a rock.

I think that because of that and because that is like a, I wouldn't say a career path, but a job that you certainly can have for a certain amount of time to sustain for some time, people are going to keep paying to be featured on places like Pop Crave until they blow up and have their moment and then everyone turns on them and it's just going to be like you said cyclical. I think it just morphs into something else. I do hope that we as a society just become more offline. I think that like the discussion about third places helps, but I also think that climate change unfortunately is going to force that's inside or underground and we're going to be on our phones. And so that's. Yeah.

Yeah, we're going to be in a bunker on our phones, waiting for the flood to disperse. Yeah, being like, Chaparone went to the surface, stunned. Yeah. Chaparone has a lot of thoughts about, you know, the new Atlanta city that we're building to give out climate change. Like, let's do a tour of Chapo ron's bunker. It's better than yours. Her bio-shock bunker. Yeah, exactly.

Stunty new photo of a hazmat suit. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Chapel Roan's Geiger counter is so low this week. That's amazing. I think you're right about it being cyclical. And I actually do sort of think you're right about it becoming more offline because I, like, all the data that I've seen seems to point to Gen Z making less content than millennials. Like they're kind of the generation of lurkers.

Yeah. And Gen Alpha seems to be even less interested in making content because they want to play it. Like they sort of think that like everything's Minecraft, right? Yes. That's actually so true. My knees are like absolutely like, I. I am supposed to leave a comment here, but I don't want to be seen doing it. I just want to copy what they're doing and make my own elevator in my craft.

Exactly. That seems to be the way the trajectory is headed. So it is possible that like we are seeing the end of this particular moment, that we look back at the Harris campaign as like the last social media campaign like this. Yes. And I will also make the point really quickly that it is run by millennials. I think it's funny because people will. I will, like, paint Gen Z on to Brad. But I'm like, Charlie X-E-X, firmly a millennial, playing to kids.

Same. Same with a Harris campaign. Like, these are 35 to 40-year-olds who just got their power, and they're like, I'm posting through. Yeah. For people who don't know, like, that's young in D.C. If you're 35, like, you finally get to do your job for the first time. Yeah, right? And in journalism, it's never.

Yeah, yeah. You just never get to do your job now. You just never have. Well, you'll get laid off, you know, eventually. Yeah, exactly. You pivot to something. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

This is delightful. If people want to follow you on one of these horrid platforms, where can they do that? Yeah, if you're cursed by Jumanji like I am and are stuck on the internet, you can find me on Twitter at Akila, obviously. Instagram at Akila H. People think it's Akila Ah, but it's just Akila H by Lasavis. And then Rebel Spirit is my. My new podcast with IHeart. I'm trying to change my high school mascot.

It is a real romp. So listen to that. Comes out every Tuesday. That's, wait. What's the, what's the mascot currently? So it's a Confederate general named Mr.

Rebel. It's racist. It's racist. Okay. And so we're trying to change it to something people in the South can be proud of, the biscuits. I feel like go Bisckeys, a biscuit man named butted a biscuit would be great.

Are you imagining like a giant dancing biscuits? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, if we could get Jack Harlow, he's getting in that biscuit. You know what I'm saying? That's really good. That's really good. So, yeah. So it's a fun sort of procedural. It almost feels like true crime because there's so much footage and so much like just of the controversy of Mr. Rebel in my hometown.

But yeah, I would say check it out. It is a fun listen. And not at all a bummer, which you would think, considering it is a race thing. Oh, good. Oh, good. That's great. I love when the racist stuff is fun. I think that's good. I think that's the only time it's fun. Yeah, it's good. It's only the time you want to hear about it really is if you're having a good laugh. Come on. Well, thank you very much. This was awesome. Thank you for having me.

Panic World is a Garbage Day production. You can subscribe to the newsletter at Garbageday. Email. Panic World is written and produced by Grant Irving, hosted by me, Ryan Broderick, and our amazing researcher is Adam Bumis, video editing by Kat Rasek. And our incredibly deranged logo was drawn by Gabby Cash. If you want to give us $5 a month, you can do that at patreon.com. Panic World and in return will give you more content to consume.

If you want to buy an ad on the show or sponsor it in any way, you can contact the fine folks at Multitude at multitude. at production slash ads. And if you want to get involved in the other way, you know, any other crazy scheme you want to rope us into, you can contact our Fixer and Bagman, Josh Fielstad, and you can reach him at PanicworldPod at gmail.com. Lastly, here's my advice for you. Chill out and touch grass.

All you still can.