Panic World - That time a 4chan user got thrown in a Taliban prison

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

Today, we’re telling a story of human ingenuity. Except, in a dumb way. It’s one of the craziest things that has happened in a long time — which is really saying something — when some bro on 4chan ended up in a Taliban prison. Arturo Castro joins us to talk about a British guy named Miles Rutledge. Our guest Arturo Castro is an actor and currently hosts Greatest Escapes, a podcast where Arturo is joined by friends to learn the stories behind other "great escapes" like today's episode. Check out Greatest Escapes here or wherever you listen to them! Want even more Panic World content? Like ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, and access to the Garbage Day Discord? Sign up for just five bucks a month at: https://www.patreon.com/PanicWorld. Sponsors Want to sponsor Panic World? Ad sales & marketing support by Multitude, hit them up here: ⁠http://multitude.productions⁠. Credits - Host: Ryan Broderick - Producer: Grant Irving - Engineer: Rebecca Seidel - Researcher: Adam Bumas - Business Manager: Josh Fjelstad Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey there, Ryan here. Before our episode starts today, I just wanted to say that we've received some, like, great messages from people about our, my friend's dad has become a Holocaust denier episode. And we thought there's probably more people out there that are having problems similar to that. You know, a friend or loved one whose brain has been totally melted by the internet and you're trying to figure out why and what you should do about it. Well, if you're comfortable with it, you can shoot us an email at PanicworldPod at gmail.com. either with a description of what's going on or you can leave a recording, whatever you're up for. And we'll keep it anonymous, you know, whatever you're okay with. And we'll talk about it on the show because I think you'd be surprised how many people are going through something like that or know someone who's going through something like that. And once again, you can send that to PanicworldPod at gmail.com. Happy to take a look, see if we can help you, see if we can help some other people.

To start things off, you know, I feel like you're the expert here. What's like your favorite great escape? What's like your favorite escape story when you come back too often? Oh, man. I mean, there's this Frenchman named Michelle who convinced his wife to take helicopter lessons so that she could bust him out of jail. And so she landed the helicopter in the jail yard. And he like kept the guards at bay by throwing grenades at them.

Okay. But the grenades were just tangerines painted black. That's all it is. And he got away with it. That is insane. I feel like... I feel like how do you pitch that to your significant other? I love my fiance.

I love her to death. She does a lot for me. But that's a big fucking ass, man. Like, you know what I think? Like picking me up from the airport at LAX is like, that's a negotiation, you know? So I don't even know where I would begin. The reason I ask you your favorite great escape is, well, I mean, you're the expert. You have a great podcast.

great escapes and I thought I'd share one of my favorite ones with you one I've been obsessed with for a few years now it's a story of how a four-chan bro ended up in a Taliban prison this is panic world a show about how the internet warps our minds our culture and eventually reality joining us today is the host of greatest escapes Arturo Castro thanks for being here and thanks for being willing to learn about some really weird internet stuff today so we were inspired for this episode based off your podcast, which tells stories of, you know, crazy escapes. But before we get into our main part of the episode, I wanted to figure out, I wanted to learn, like, what made you get attracted to these kinds of stories?

Like, I'm definitely interested in escapes, but that's one's faction of what I, what I really love, which is, uh, events that seem insignificant and how they affect world history. I'll give you a super quick example, but the world almost ended because of cheap bananas. Okay. Tell me more. I've come from Guatemala, right? And so you know how the U.S. like staged so many coups during the decades and installed dictators that were friendly to the U.S. What's the tea with Latin America and American government?

Hold on. Before Guatemala was their pilot program because before that the CIA was a joke. They kept trying to like send double agents to the Soviet. Union and they kept getting killed or flipped or and it was just like horrible. But Guatemala had this democratically elected government, which decided to do a land reform and give it back to the farmers and you should. And then they realized that the United Fruit Company, owners of Chiquita Banana, had like these massive swaths of land that was like unaccounted for a penny sand dollars.

So they were like, hey man, you can't fucking have this. But the Doze brothers, they were on the board of. the United Food Company. So they're like, hey man, I think this country needs them, democracy. Right. So they basically stage a coup. They deposed the president. It kicked off 30 years of civil war. And okay, now here's how to wrap it all up. Okay. The man living in Guatemala at the time was not radicalized yet until this happened was named Che Guevara, Ernesto Guevara. Oh, I've heard of this guy. Yeah. Yeah. So he fled, fled to Mexico where he met Fidel Castro, which then created the... I've heard of that.

I too. Yeah, the Cuban Revolution, which then led to the Cuban Missile Crisis, which almost ended the world because of cheap bananas. Bananas. Bananas. That is so fascinating. I don't know. I'm more interested in the ingenuity of the human spirit, you know. Sure. I actually, I heard some really good banana gossip the other day if you'd like to hear a hot tip. So a friend of mine is doing like marketing for a banana company that I will not name. And apparently Gen Z doesn't like to eat bananas because they think it's too sexual. And they've done all this market research. And apparently like banana sales are tanking.

And then they wanted to like do like a retro sort of like embrace the history of bananas in America thing. But they can't because all the kids on TikTok know about all the CIA shit. So they're stuck. And apparently bananas are just like really not selling very well right now. Oh man. Well, you know, the come up instead of, you are 70, seven, seven, seven years later. We got them.

70 years. They got them. We got them. So. So we're going to be telling you a story of human ingenuity, but unfortunately in like the very wrong direction, like the wrongest direction possible. And while it's not a story that has yet to lead to any kind of revolution or civil war, it does involve those things. Like it is tangentially related to those things. And it starts in an equally dumb way as cheap bananas.

It starts with wanting to be an internet celebrity, the dumbest dream of all. So my question for you is, have you known anyone? who's done, I don't know, some kind of insane thing for internet attention. Maybe to launch their career, like go viral. Like, do you know anyone who's tried to do this before? You know, not to this. I hate to disappoint you, but like I think I've been hanging out with some really fucking, like, straight-edge people, which I would never have thought you could say about actors in Hollywood.

No, that's good. But it's, it's, yeah, I've never, or at least I don't, I've never hung out with somebody that, that's like, I'm going to do this thing for fame. and it's going to work out, you know? No, that's, like, that's how it should be. Like, you shouldn't be friends with people who do internet pranks. Yeah, I just say, I'm like, I don't know. Have you, bro?

I'm like, so the story that we're going to be telling you today starts with a little website called, yeah, I would say equally as bad for the world as the CIA was in the 60s. Do you know about the website for Chan? Have you heard of this? I've heard of it. Yeah, I mean, obviously from from the articles that it's super right-wing fucking crazy conspiracy theorists getting together. If you've never used it, it's totally anonymous.

People just post whatever on there. It's kind of like a bathroom wall of the internet. I mean, have you ever met anybody who's used it or talked about it? I don't know if you kind of grew up in the same age I did where there was always like one weird guy in your high school who was like super into 4chan. Yeah, by the time I moved from Guatemala, I was 19, so I was in New York and most of the people I came in, we were just theater nerds. Definitely not.

Yeah. Yeah, we were really into my space. But no, no, I don't know if I've ever met anybody on it. So one of the things that, like, people do on there is, like, they'll sort of, like, ask the anonymous users, like, you know, should I do X or should I do Y or should I do Z? And this is how our story starts where our main character, he grew up on this website as a teenager, using it a lot. And, like, almost everyone on there, he was anonymous.

That's how it works. He was making dumb jokes and no one knew he was there. And he decided he wanted to change that, which is actually kind of a risky thing, on Fortune. You're really not supposed to reveal your identity. His name is Miles Rootledge. Have you ever heard of Miles Rutledge? I haven't. Great. He related to Cheetah Banana because he sounds like he's in the United Fruit Company's pocket. I don't know. Well, there is colonialism involved in both of those stories actually. But this is, tell me about it. This is a different kind of colonialism. So he's from England. He went to school at the University of Loughborough and he was interning

at a banking firm and he was posting on Fortune a lot. And he caught the idea from Fortune. to start a meme page. You know, like those, like, local meme pages? Like, he was running one called the Loughborough Confession and Depression page, which is based on the archive that we found, not good. It's, like, indecipherable, horrible British memes. But it was, like, the thing where you would, like, you'd make fun of things you heard on campus

or, like, an overheard on the quad kind of thing. Were you ever sort of a fan of these kind of meme pages, like, you know, like 10 years ago? Definitely. I mean, yeah, of course. Well, the people who run these pages are not the best because like they stare at the internet all day. Their brains are totally rotted. And before we really dive into this guy's quest for attention, just to give you a sense of what he was doing before, all this stuff goes down. You know, we found a comment on there that reads, my 103 year old grandma saw this page and said it was disgusting uniculture and wants to shut down.

My question is admins, how do you respond to that? So that kind of gives you a sense of like how rough these meme pages were. But Miles, he's a finance bro. He's spending a lot of time on 4chan. And he decides that he's going to buy a ticket to Kabul, Afghanistan in 2021. He's going to spend seven to eight days there on his summer break. And he buys a ticket days after the Taliban launches an offensive in Afghanistan and the U.S. troops withdrew. Do you remember this moment?

I do remember this moment quite well. Okay. Was he, yeah, was he going for the weather? Okay. We're getting there. So this is in May, 2021. He buys a ticket by August. The Taliban has captured major cities across the country, most of the capitals.

And NATO starts evacuating Afghan citizens. And that's when Miles shows up in August 2021. And he goes on 4chan's travel boards. So people don't know this. It is like a racist hellscape, but there's like different boards. There's also, yeah, there's also tips if you want to live, laugh them up. Yeah, okay. So we've done a whole episode on their cooking board.

They have like a cooking section where you can like learn how to cook. And they have a travel board called TRV. And he posts a photo with the caption, just chilling in Afghanistan. And then he writes, decided to pop down to Afghanistan for a few days, never been before, just goofing off and soaking in the sun. So you were kind of right. Seems more peaceful than London to me. Ask me anything. So this is where.

our story officially starts. Miles is land in Afghanistan as the Taliban is taking the country over. I do want to take a quick parenthesis and just circle back to this cooking area of 4chan for a second because like I would think that if you see somebody on 4chan posting about cooking Mexican, you have to like think for a second as to what they actually mean. You know what I mean? Oh, like a person. Yeah, you know. Sorry, I digress. No, no. It is a racist place. But my friend. did learn how to cook bread on there during the pandemic.

Like, they can be helpful. It's a great British baking show of the internet. That's funny. It's kind of like a- I love Andrew Tate, but I also want this like banana bread. But my sourdough isn't doing the cross thing correctly. How do I fix it, Anons? Yeah, no, exactly.

So he's on the travel board. Yeah, he's on the travel board. He's in Afghanistan. And he posts his picture and his name to Forchand, which not a lot of people do. And it blows up. So we have some of the comments that we've saved. This is one of the only ones I feel comfortable reading on a microphone. So one user writes, this behavior is borderline sigma, which is a reference to Sigma males.

Are you familiar with the Sigma Mail? Okay, it's like the John Wick archetype. Then they write, goes to Afghanistan right when the Taliban is taking over, openly walks the streets and has no care in the world, is hanging out in a city that is about to become the 21st century equivalent of Saigon, post his picture and his entire name on 4chan, a site notorious for punishing those that breach the enforced anonymity. Zero fucks given about all the cautionary advice, contrary to his own plans.

Miles, you are a fucking mad lad, and I wish you the best. If you die, you will die a legend, but if you live, you will return to civilization, a hero. He doesn't, for spoilers, but.

What? So he's there. And, uh, I mean, like, what's your read on this kind of behavior? Like, why do you think,

uh, why do you think Mr. Miles did that? First of all, I want to say that that post that you read to me, even though, very weird way is an extremely like positive like it's like when you can't use like loving encouraging language but like you're trying your best to you know what I mean you're just telling somebody like

man you're living your best life I admire you I hope I wish the best for you but like you you had to tie it into like a very light John Wick reference you know so yeah yeah I mean this guy it seems like he wants to communicate doesn't have the tools for it and I if I'm Terry I'm feeling pretty good with that comment. Yeah, I think a lot of these guys are extremely emotionally stunted, which will become more and more apparent as we go further into our story today. But he's in Afghanistan, and he's now actively posting on 4chan, and he writes, I almost have a first class degree in physics and an investment baking job. I love the idea of almost have a first, like almost, I almost have a degree in physics. First year in, but I have full intentions and a mood board. Exactly. Yet I'm, okay,

So there's no good way to read this. Yet I'm incredibly retarded, yes. Also, I don't think you understand. The reason I came is because of the news. If the Taliban kidnapped me, the plan is simple. I'm legally technically a lord, bought a fake certificate wore a suit in a bank and talk to talk. So it says, Lord, on all my bank cards. The Taliban may see that as a reason enough to keep me alive, thinking it may hold some negotiating power as they'll think I'm important.

Let's hope it won't get to that stage, though. And what do you think happened next? He got kidnapped? Yeah, yeah, he did. Oh, my God. What? We're going to talk about how his plan didn't work out so well right after the break. Oh, my God.

I want to sort of gut check. You know, like, is this level of craziness, like, typical of the people that you're sort of looking into and researching in, like, great escape stuff? No, but it, well, I guess, sure, but, like, mine are more historic in the sense of there there was, uh, besides the sort of psychopaths and serial killers or whatever, there was sort of a direct line of logic as to how they wind up where they, you know, there was a, there was an intent to rob to be in a better place economically or people blamed it on, like, wanting to have their families in a better place. I feel like this is definitely like generational or like this is

like the past like, I don't know, 40 years of like, I just, this feels like the thing I'm going to do and I live online so much that I think this is going to work out, you know? It's almost like toxic optimism, you know? Yes. I would say like megalomaniacal privilege to just think like, yeah, the Taliban will think I'm a lord and I'll be fine. This guy, do we know if he traveled a lot before? Like, was this like, how old was he sorry by this point?

I mean, he's in his early 20s and he had just graduated uni a couple years before. And he was, yeah, I mean, as he said, he was a finance intern, like a finance bro kind of intern guy running a meme page and just decided to do this for the last. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, people that have traveled to developing countries, like it opens your eyes a little more to like keeping your dumb shit to yourself. You know what I'm saying? You don't get a second pass at being dumb in a rough neighborhood in certain countries. And I think when you travel, you find that out.

But this kid is obviously, I don't know. Honestly, I'm having a hard time. I have no point of reference to this insanity. But go ahead. No, I'm actually glad you brought that up because we are going to, we're getting to kind of what you talked about in terms of. of like how this fits into a larger world of people like Miles who we'll get there we'll get there I don't want to go ahead so by August 14th he's having a great time he he posts like a photo he now this is all still on a 4chan which is very rare people don't really use it like this but he's posting

photos of like the food he's eating and he's posting photos of like the room he's staying in Grant want to want to read the post for us okay so myel's post my room is nice it's hidden off the street and barricaded with several steel doors and checkpoints with guards. I got a 32-inch fat TV. I've got a C which works surprisingly well. Double bed and the mattresses rock hard, but apparently that's the custom here. I kind of like it. And then the next day, the Taliban enters Kabul and they capture the city. And according to Miles, he realizes that shit has turned very serious very quickly and not funny anymore because there's a bank run, which, you know, might happen in America. You know, by the time this episode comes out, who knows,

And, well, sorry, what's a bank run? Oh, like people are trying to take their money out of the banks because, like, the economy. Oh, I see, I see. And so he writes, uh, tickets are non-refundable. Therefore, I either stay permanently in a grave or leave as planned on the 19th, just the Afghanistan grind set, as he described it. Also, if I get proven wrong and die, edit a laughing soundtrack over my post, it'll be funny, I think.

So there's chaos everywhere. And he decides that he's going to go live on Facebook and do a question and answer segment. Do you remember me saying I'm a friend If I clug for toilet I never got to unclock it So There's a massive shit

Left somewhere Of Taliban to go and uncover And this is where he starts to get Like really big And all of the sort of darker corners Of the internet Are like taking notice Of like this white guy

From England In the middle of the Afghanistan withdrawal So like Things are getting really viral here And like the stuff they're writing In like the Facebook live Is awful So you know

I'm going to make Grant read this one too because I don't I don't want to read it Thanks Ryan Really appreciate that Okay here are some of the exchanges So he's like Talking about people sending him

Like insulting things or whatever And he says I just thought I'm going to be killed by the Taliban And you think sending your copy pasta About someone hanging himself Is going to be dodgy It's cool You're not going to touch me

You're not going to affect me in any way I'm literally too base for it. Yeah, that is some real edge lord shit. Very bad. What is edge lording? Sorry, I feel like an edge lord would be like someone who just like says like offensive shit on the internet to like get in a reaction. Like trolls. Oh, edge lord.

Yeah, got it, got it. Got it. So he's loving the attention. But on the ground, things are getting dicey. The situation is evolving quickly, let's say. He's now posting on Facebook and he writes, uh, country and anarchy just saw a few dead in a car crash. military is fleeing, only a few brave stay. Embassy is closed, so I walked to the airport and I'm safe.

We'll find British representatives and get a flight out. Yeah, he gets to the airport and he said he wore a burqa over his face, so he wouldn't stand out. And he's trying to seem like, you know, like an Afghan woman. But at the airport, everything has gone to hell. There's no flights, no one to help him. He says the Taliban sees him and they let him go. And he ends up getting back to a safe house. He's just like obviously found himself in a situation that's not like an internet joke anymore, which I think is like a really interesting. This guy is awful, but like his depiction of like the fall of Afghanistan is also kind of interesting in a way to me because like it's such a weird document that we like you don't you don't really get like a middle class Gen Z picture of this, you know. First, yeah, like first person accounts that are in sort of like pre-packaged by like. Or like, you know, soundbitey like you would from a war correspondent on CNN or whatever. You know, this guy's just kind of saying what he's seeing and there's something interesting and unique about that.

Yeah, even if he's horrible. Like, to me, it is interesting. He, he's trying to get out. He gets to a safe house and he, like, posts a photo on Twitter of him in a safe house with, like, a thumbs up. He's broadcasting on Facebook and Twitch from the safe house at this point. And he, by all accounts, seems to be having a great time with the attention at least. And this is finally when the British press. learns about Mr. Miles.

And the Times of London writes, Rootledge, a Catholic, which I think it's just such a weird detail. Just so you know. Super weird. Yeah. 200 years ago, we would have kicked him out and persecuted him. A Catholic, you know,

said he had been praying roughly 20 minutes, every 20 minutes, and wearing his cross while walking the streets. Last night, he wrote to friends on social media, I'm struggling to stand and keep down water. I don't think I'll sleep tonight. I've seen too many dead people. I just want this whole thing to be a little charity,

thing where I can explore a weird country, which I think kind of like references what his original plan was for this, which is like, in his words, like go to a weird country, quote unquote, and like, I don't know, do some like stupid, assinine YouTube series about it. But he writes, uh, I've mentally broken down. I'm not sure what's going on right now. My face in the mirror doesn't look right. And he wrote, I still have regrets, but damn, I wish I packed more socks, which I do think is true.

Everyone should pack more songs. Yeah, everybody should pack more sounds. It was pretty good. Yeah, I wonder if, like, he thought that he'd have more time, you know, because I think the fall of Kabul, sorry, and Afghanistan to the Taliban happened so much quicker than people anticipated. Was that the thing? Or was he, was he aware? I forget if shit had already started hitting the fan when he went down there. Shit had hit the fan.

I mean, they were taking capitals, but I do think you're right. Because I remember following it. just like as a journalist during that time period and being really shocked at how quickly. Because I think everyone kind of assumed America would stay or do something and not just like leave. Yeah, yeah. So his tour guide gets him in a place with lots of other foreigners. Whoever was like running the safe house was negotiating with the Taliban to get these people out of the country. And yeah, shit gets real because, you know, this is like the most dangerous situation you can be.

in a geopolitical crisis. But fortunately for Miles, he's a white British guy. So, you know, luck is kind of on his side, unfortunately, here. And he gets to leave. And all that arrogance comes flooding back, because now he's the guy who survived the fall of Kabul. He claims that the members of the Taliban recognize him. And as they're boarding the flight, Miles says the Taliban soldiers are taking pictures

with him and videos and they're on TikTok. And that apparently the Taliban is big into TikTok, which I did hear a story, actually, that Taliban fighters became very depressed after they took back the country because they were given desk jobs. And now they just sit on social media all day and like they really miss like the act of like being out fighting with their brothers, which I think is kind of funny. Man, that's hilarious. Those like package review like a like a Taliban package review or like or follow me on my, on my day to day. Yeah. Would be scary slash hilarious. Yeah. I mean, I think you know, everyone eventually gets tired of like the nine to five in the office, I guess, even the Taliban.

I would love to see a TikTok dance by a just like a group of armed Taliban men. Honestly, that's pretty close. So they get to a plane. They take him to Dubai. And at this point, he's essentially escaping a war, which is totally insane. And he then does an interview with a horrible racist, insane Scottish YouTuber that goes by Count Dankula. he's like you can just imagine

previous New York Times fame right editorial board I mean not far off I think they have done a profile on him let's listen to a clip and just a warning count dangula is

a massive racist asshole and what you're about to hear is extremely racist and some of them spot me somebody like 18 year old teleband members spotting me he pointed in me

but eyes widens and they literally start filming me and I go oh this is fucking holy Habibi I seen you a threat on fortune. Fucking funny, Habibi. I think one of them

tried to get self-free and me, but I was like, yeah, probably shouldn't be fair. Yeah, self-of-a- yeah. But yeah,

so there's, he's now, he's now, like, big time in the, like, not the Trump world, but like the,

the international far-right world because he's like this, as they said, like the, Andrew Tate's area. Very similar. This would be like pre-antur-tate, I think,

in a lot of way. Like, this kind of, and we're going to get to how, but a lot of this, actually kind of sets the stage for, I think, some of the things that have helped Andrew Tate grow over the last few years.

But he claims that he, you know, escaped safely and that he has like, you know, has a new lease on life. That doesn't last very long. Because after the break, we're going to find out what happens when Miles goes back to Afghanistan. No. Okay, let's say, I don't know if you've ever, you know, escaped a war zone or a conflict zone like you know if you if you if you have if you haven't like

would you go back immediately do you think well i have survived a few black fridays uh at the tarj in like hackensack new jersey close they did go back for a couple years but no of course not like it seems like you know finding yourself in a war zone it seems like something that you don't willingly do you know sure and once you manage to establish to a escape it and become a refugee of such war, like the last thing you ever want is to go back to it. I would say any normal logical person would agree with me. I think that's true.

I have come close. But, but, but, but, but if I may, I think fame is addictive and sort of this positive reinforcement and this sort of his army of edge lords, which by the way is the craziest fucking rebranding of a word since like mayonnaise turned into aoli um it's addictive right it's just mayonnaise but it's addictive right so you know it's the it's that loss you feel and what the talban dudes are feeling too of like okay now what like right like what was it you know and that's sort of like existential dread of like who am i if not if not the guy who's in danger so i guess i understand it if i'm putting myself in his shoes yeah i i i i

I've never done war zone reporting, but I've definitely done like conflict reporting, and there is a thrill to it. There is something, I would like to think I'm a little better than Miles is. But like, there's an adrenaline rush. And if you attach the internet to that adrenaline rush, I think you get really bizarre behavior. And this is exactly what happens with Miles. Remember, he was supposed to become like a finance bro or whatever, but instead he becomes a YouTuber. Which is equally damaging for the world. he brands himself a modern day Catholic adventurer

and he also describes himself as a independent war journalist and he starts making videos that I don't know if you've ever come across this on YouTube but there's a whole pocket of this kind of stuff that I would call like dark tourism or like I don't know like these usually it's like white British guys who go to like the world's scariest place you know like the like Vice used to do yeah but like But even more racist than when Vice would do it. So poverty porn.

Poverty porn, yeah. Like, this is the most, this is the country with the most murders on earth. You know, like, I'm going to walk down a street with a watch on and see what happens. Yeah. So he ends up going to Ukraine, specifically Chernobyl, which he goes to in 2019 also. He then starts raising money on GoFundMe to like kind of like help him go to Kazakhstan. He posts. in January, 2022.

On my way to Kazakhstan right now, why? So I can be a little goofy, be a little silly perhaps, adventure around all British, like, get away from it all, a little lovely holiday lads on tour. I'm confused about the, like, branding himself as a, like, Catholic boy, if I can go, you know what I'm saying? Like, as soon as you, what? Maybe it was a part of his identity because he kept saying about how much he prayed and he had the crossout, et cetera.

And it seems to be a big deal in England, I guess, like how you identify. But what's your theory? I think it's like a trad thing. I think he's like trying to dog whistle to like racist, religious people on the internet. At the time he goes to Kazakhstan, it's not just for a lovely little holiday, though. It's because the country is having like full on riots and he wants to like go film the riots. And he does his dark YouTube thing for a while and manages not to get himself kidnapped for over a year. Very impressive.

And then in the spring of 2022, he starts teasing a big new project, which is almost certainly going to get him kidnapped. According to the Daily Mail at the time, he has been posting cryptic messages about his latest trip since at least mid-February, asking followers for donations so he can save 15 people's lives. He has kept details of the trip sparse, claiming he will be arrested otherwise. He had boasted that it would involve traveling through areas where kidnappings and suicide bombings are common and cycling through ISIS territory. Interesting, too, about like this sort of, like, faux altruistic, like, I'm going to go rescue 15 people. know, you become sort of like a prisoner to your own legend. You know what I'm saying? Like, it feels like a reference to the Sigma, you know, really believing in living the Sigma

lifestyle that he thinks he is. I think that's right. And just for our listeners who are trying to envision this kid, he is not like a masculine guy. He's like a little scrawny British white guy. But he eventually reveals that he has arrived in Pakistan. Once there, he reveals that he was trying to save his tour guide and the tour guy's family from the last time he was in Afghanistan, the guy who brought him to the safe house and

negotiated his way out. But the tour guy decided that Miles's plan was too risky, probably because it was too risky, but Miles was angry about this. So Miles is in Pakistan. He's bitching online. He's posting photos of himself crying like normal white British man behavior. Yeah. And then he posted an update.

This means I can't go on a date with a girl I really liked. It means I can't sponsor a joint adventure with my friend. I will go home to an empty room. I am at my end. Got it. Okay, dude. Sorry. Pretty dramatic.

Pretty dramatic. It is tantrum-y, isn't it? Like, it does feel like these dudes on the internet, particularly this younger generation, they're so, like, fucking gunhole, like, fucking, like, love MMA and shit. Like, feels like they're very, like, as soon as something goes wrong for them, it turns into a childlike tantrum. I've seen it a lot. It's so weird.

It's just, I wanted to do this. You know, like, what, bro? And, like, just, like, completely unaware of, like, how it's coming off. Interesting. Yeah, they're, like, ranting about, like, how, like, 80% of women go for 20% of men and you've got to be really hard and strong. And then they're like, they just start sobbing on TikTok when something goes mildly wrong. Dude.

So after he has his little meltdown, he then announces that he's taking a rickshaw from Pakistan to Afghanistan. Oh, he just called, he, okay. So was a neon sign not available? or like, well, see, he was just like, hey, uh, wait to give yourself away, bud. Okay. I'm heading over. He writes, tea with the Taliban. I'm in Afghanistan, walked into Taliban residency by accident.

And after taking the food they gave me tea and even offered me to stay the night, they are so kind. He then says that he gets food poisoning from eating with the Taliban, but he doesn't blame the Taliban for accidentally giving him food poisoning. And then he makes a YouTube video called I went shooting with a Taliban. The Taliban. Grant, why don't you explain what's happening in this video for our listeners you can't see it? So in the first 40 seconds, he's like, I'm going to go to a gun market with some mobsters and these guys in the Taliban. I'm in Afghanistan on forged documents going to meet a black market gun runner.

I'm also going to hang out with the Taliban. In there, he starts spreading some right-wing conspiracies about how the UN is the Antichrist. And if you say you hate the Antichrist, they'll hunt you down somewhere. There they all. So now he's, he was originally going there to save people from the Taliban, and now he's, like, super pro-Taliban. And then, um, he's on video shooting. Let's do some shooting with the Taliban. A very large gun.

I don't know the fucking gun it is. A big gun. With he says, remember this to the Taliban who look like the scariest men, to be fair. And they are, look, terrified because he's so bad at holding a gun. They're, like, flinching every time. He's like, because I kind of shoot it again and they're like, I guess white guy. I love that. So, uh, please, please, no, please stop.

Yeah. Please, we value our lives. We need, we have some TikToks to post. So that is his rebrand of, uh, crazy switch up. Yeah. My, my hunch here is that like once he realized that like the Taliban hate women as much as he probably does, like everyone was like, oh, cool. Found a lot of common ground. Yeah.

Like, I think Andrew Tate and the Taliban. band probably have a lot in common in terms of what they think. 100%. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's a perfect, I mean, it's a perfect world if you are a misogynist, dude, a misogynist yourself, right? Yeah, I mean, I remember, like, during the Bush administration, there was, like, all kinds

of people calling, like, the Tea Party, like, white al-Qaeda. That was, like, a normal, you know, term. Remember how fucking, like, a softball, like, just looking back how softball a fucking Tea Party was? I would love the Tea Party right now. God. I was thinking about this recently, like Mitt Romney's, like, campaign was kind of, like, derailed because he said, 50% of the country, they don't care about us. They're like, it was a shock.

People were like, fuck you. I don't care about it. Jesus. I would give anything for Mitt Romney to be president right now. I would pay good money for mid-Rommy. I would let Mitt Romney strap me to the roof of his car like he did his dog during the 2020-2012 campaign if it meant that he could be president of Trump right now. I happy. I will bark for him.

I don't go to Trump. Yes. So, so. Okay, so he's shooting with the Taliban and they're looking scary and scared at the same time. Yep. Two things can be true. And then Miles just seems to stay and chill in Afghanistan. Like, he's hanging out with his new buddies in the Taliban for seven months.

Oh, my God, dude. And he's making a bunch of pro-Taliban content, just running around the country. You know how there's some. dudes on like Instagram and shit that like like to pick up like venomous snakes and shit and it's like oh if this guy ever stops posting I know why it's exactly exactly yeah and this is where stuff gets like I mean everything that I think we've said today is strange but this is where the story like really gets like really weird so in November 22 a book is published titled Lord Miles in Afghanistan and vice like reviewed it at the time and they sort of described it as like just like a book full of

nonsense like memes and racist garbage pulled directly from 4chan and the article writes um rootledge said in his visa said his visa required a personal statement explaining why he was entering the country my response was simply an a four sheet of paper with the with only the word fun written on it it was accepted without question he said in his book i was ready for my very own white boy summer um and you might be wondering like you know how did this book get published. It was published by a company called Antelope Hill Publishing, which basically only publishes Nazi propaganda. And every now and then a cookbook, thankfully. And then a cookbook. Yeah, no, you've, every now and then a banana bread, uh, how to. Yeah,

well, I'm sure they're very interested in the global banana trade for sure. Yes. Miles does have fans, right? And he loves to post. And it is giving him money. But then all of a sudden, Miles doesn't post for a real long time, which starts to raise suspicions that maybe his friends in the Taliban are no longer his friends. And in March 23, so there was like a thing in 2023 where no one really knew if this account was legit or not. And it seems like it was. But basically a Twitter account appeared in 2023 claiming to be the press department for the Taliban. Okay. And I remember being like, that's weird.

That's like really weird. But like they definitely had like they were definitely trying to sound young. What is up my guys? Just TT checking in. Yeah. And I remember like covering the story being like, I guess we're just going to say according to the Taliban press department. Like I guess that's what we're going to write. And they they announced that he is now a missing person.

So the Taliban press department writes, in opposed to the pal, they're right, it's with great sorrow to announce that we have lost contact with our beloved brother. Lord Miles Rutledge. What? Yeah. Our beloved brother. Okay. Yeah. I mean, he's gone.

How deep did he go? Oh, man. He's gone over to the other side now. He's part of the Taliban, I guess. And reports start officially coming out that he was actually arrested by the Taliban in early March. 100%. That's what it sounds like. Like it's like, we love our good friend who we would never hurt ever in our lives.

And unfortunately, yeah, it's so weird. He just kind of like, I don't know. know. He went on a hike. He said, you'd be right back. If you guys have heard of from him, just please, we're worried about him. So that's not even a joke. That is, that was one of the early explanations was that like he went hiking in a dangerous like no way. I remember that like coming out. He went up on a sock run. He was just like, he didn't have enough socks. A really cold feet. Yeah, his rick shot disappeared in the, in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Yeah, months go by. Finally, there are some official reports to start coming out that say

that he was arrested. It's unclear why, but the telegraph in the UK rights at the time, the official added that the group were found partaking, so Rutledge's, Miles's group, were found partaking in suspicious activities and were being held with the Taliban's counterintelligence department in Kabul. Miles's mother, Susan, told the Daily Mail about her distress, saying, it is so worrying, I just want help to find out what happened to him and make

sure he's okay. I am just desperate to know that he's safe. I don't know who is holding him or where he is. And then a bunch more months go by. And finally, in the summer of 2023, he posts a photo of himself, just like posing with Taliban fighters. And does he look like he's age? Does it feel like it's like an old photo that they posted? Like, hey, look, he's alive.

Are they weekend at Berniezing him? You know what I mean? So weirdly enough, you would think that he would look like really fucked up from like, you know, essentially being like detained. Yeah, here's a photo. So he doesn't look super fucked up from being detained by the Taliban for, you know, the better part of six months. Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is like we know this is, I don't know what he looked like before. But like this is a current photo when he posted it is. So there was a lot of discussion about that.

Yeah. I mean, he writes in this four months in Taliban custody. what's really weird. Yeah, yeah. So this is written from a friend of his. So it says this is a friend of Lord Miles to give an update. Four months in Taliban custody. He's treated very well.

He has several servants, loads of movies on his laptop, goes on picnics and has tea with the Taliban cabinet government. He still loves Afghanistan. Loads of servants in jail? Well, my read on this, you know, after kind of going through a lot of this stuff and at the time, then, you know, having a researcher put it together for this. My take on this is essentially like he was under very nice house arrest because they didn't know what the deal was with him because he's a weird fucking guy. You know, they're like, well, he hates women as much as we do, but like he's putting all this stuff on YouTube. I don't know.

carries a cross around and tells us. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. You cannot grow a beard properly. Exactly. So he finally is free in October after, in the better part of a year essentially in Taliban custody. So October 2023, he has like, he posts a whole thread as he's leaving sort of talking about how he got arrested with a bunch of money in his pocket, but he's been living in luxury. He orders food, you know, he's playing video games, blah, blah, blah, blah.

He gets out in October, the BBC reports he's free. And he finds out that his Patreon's been shut down because now he's technically, I mean, he's technically an associate of terrorists. And Patreon doesn't allow that. And then. We draw the line. And then I've been waiting for this to reveal all episode. Guess whose show he goes on to talk about how great the Taliban are. Andrew Tate.

You fucking know it. What? Yep. Yep. That's crazy. Yes. And was this, how popular was Andrew Tate at the time? This is 2023.

So Andrew Tate is like. So it's on the rise maybe? No. So I don't know if Americans are super, like people outside of the UK would be super familiar with this. but Andrew Tate found a like a hack inside of TikTok and was like the number one user on TikTok around 2023. That's how he got started.

He built like a weird like referral program for like the horrible men that listened to his show to just like share clips of him on TikTok. And it was like a massive scandal in the UK because all of these major newspapers are like who the fuck is this guy? And this was way before the human trafficking stuff came out. So like he was just like this horrible UK influencer.

So he's now connected with Lord Miles. and then Miles talks about how much he liked the Taliban, says he'll be returning again, and basically just talks about how great the Taliban and Andrew Tate are, because all horrible men eventually sort of like become the same horrible man. He also said that the Taliban were super impressed that he knew Andrew Tate. Fucking God. Yeah, so he calls him Tala Bros, and he says that he won over all the Tala Bros,

because they're such big fans. of Andrew Tate. You know what? Here, here, take a lesson. Who is this? I say, oh, that's, it says where they're Andrew Tate. They say, the top G.

And I go, yeah, the top G. You know the top G? And they were like, yes, my friend, you got this book signed by him. I'm like, man, he's my acquaintance. I met him a few times. Lovely chap. I go, you know the top G?

And I was like, absolutely, man. Check my WhatsApp right here. He's right here. And they were like, whoa, can you tell him I said hi? So I'm like, yeah. So Iqbal says hi, mate. Iqbal says hi.

Hey, G. Dude. Yes. He does. It's hard not to like, it's hard not to like have a sense of hopelessness, isn't it? It's just, you know, like, it's just hard to not like, just stare at like the general, like the next generation and be like, what, dude? I'm just like what? Like, you know, it's, it's, yeah.

I mean, everything, I believe everything's a balance and everything course corrects eventually. But man, it's just hard to like be you of the present that. It has to like, what? Like, what do you mean? Like, the real G, like, the Tali bros love the. It's just so fucking, I grew up in a time where, you know, the Taliban were the bad guys, right? Like, this is what, you know. Oh, man.

Okay, cool. Yes, you're blowing my mind. I still think, for the record, for our listeners, the Taliban are bad. I want to make that clear that I'm not. Oh, yeah. This is not in any way promotion for the Taliban. Yeah. Well, we use Patreon.

So I want Patreon representatives listening to this to know that we do not associate with the Taliban. Miles eventually releases sort of a larger statement about all of this. It's totally in bad faith like everything else he does. But he says, basically I had banter with the Taliban. And at the end of the day, they are a bunch of fun-loving blokes. One day we had a water fight. Another day we played volleyball. Once I chased them around with some, like, of their AK-47s, they chased me around with a

PKM, you know, just typical holiday stuff. And he maintains to this day that like he had a great time in prison in Afghanistan. And now just to the Cota here, you know, before we spin out and sort of take a wider lens, it's just like he's still doing this shit. Like he, he like went to Brooklyn once to like film like, you know, poorer neighborhoods and say it was more dangerous than Afghanistan. made this his brand. And sort of like, I mean, that's his full-time thing now, is just like traveling around the world being racist and annoying. And like he can now always say, well, it's worse here than Afghanistan, blah, blah, blah.

That's his like, catchphrase, Jesus. Okay. Yeah, because I was going to ask what his life is like now. And I'm not surprised, but I'm also like, what? You know, like, I also. Today he sells Taliban hoodies. Yeah, yeah, that's right. They go all the way.

It's not a joke. It's not a joke. That's literally an app in his video. He sells footage of him working out with the Taliban and then like Taliban like labeled hudies of them lifting weights. Hey guys. Do you want to be put on a watch list? Maybe get Aenely probed at airports.

Scare away all the hose. Well, I just have the thing for you. Do you remember the Taliban hoodie from a previous video? Now I'm selling it. They even come to the Taliban sticker. And here's the thing, like, Afghanistan culture is beautiful. And I'm not just saying that. 100% agree.

I'm not just saying that to like, just so you guys know, I'm not hating on Afghanistan. No, I'm saying that it's culture. They speak pure Farsi. It's like a beautiful. It's not the same as saying the Taliban. So the country itself is also beautiful. So, you know, all I'm saying is like this guy is, I'm sure there's moments where he had fun of wasn't such a fuckhead.

And if these guys weren't like complete, uh, terrible fucking terrorist organization, you know, there, some of the customs, I'm sure were great, but not within the scope of the Taliban.

The Taliban is what ruined the culture of Afghanistan, you know, not ruined it, but you know what I'm saying? At least suppressed it to the point where it's unrecognizable from the greatness that it is. You touched on something I think really important here, which is that like,

there is value, I think. in going to, let's, let's, like, for total simplicity's sake, let's say, like, dangerous areas of the global South that don't get a lot of coverage. I think that, like, as a journalist that is really important, I get very angry, though, at the idea that, like, this fuckhead is getting egged on by the internet to do it this way. Like, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's something, like, very dark to me about, like, mixing, like, geopolitics, deep global inequality and like YouTube traffic together and you end up with this basically. And it's a wasted sort of like access, right? Totally. Some of like this is such an interesting access to have objectively, right? Without taking it. Leave the morality aside for a second of like, wow, you got to live inside a or you were arrested by the Taliban.

You got to live with them. You got to like what that's a, it's an interesting perspective to learn from. But because he's shaping it around this sort of. of a vapid, full macho lens. It's like whatever lesson there was to learn about what, what life is like there now is wasted, right? The thing you sort of said earlier about like the hopelessness of young people right now, which I think is a key part of this,

which is that like we've reached a point with like young people in the internet right now where so many of the taboos that you and I grew up with about sort of like who is bad and who is good in the world or like how you're supposed to sort of treat, you know something as serious as a military withdrawal during a war zone like all of these things have gone out the window because they're just another thing you see in your computer screen and that to me like that that that flattening of reality just feels very yeah yeah i understand the desensitivation of of a culture right like once you're you just live online and you're just it's there's definitely a disassociation here yes of what reality is and like what real life consequences are and

again, not to be on this soapbox about like, wow, young people these days, there's an incredible GenC has produced some incredible thinkers and people that are, have interest in helping humanity. The thing is this, this is where I find some hopelessness, right? And also that there's a, there's a sense of like, man, you don't, I guess pity is the wrong word, but you're like, man, like there's so much potential wasted because, again, like we're talking about with this guy, right? Such an interesting, such a brave thing to do going into war zone, usually. Yeah.

But doing it for fucking, I don't know, just like as a prank and like then just like using it to like spout your fucking chauvinistic shit, then it's just a waste, I guess. Yeah. It's it's very hard to travel the world and remain a giant racist shithead. I'd like to believe. It's not impossible. but yeah and also it's just it's just they bought into this thing and another you know I did this show with Joseph Gordon Levitt and who's an incredible fucking man and huge

Andrew Tate fan massive Andrew Tate fan yeah massive and that's the kicker he loves but he's a big intellectual and he he made a really interesting point to me once and it's like it used to be back in the back in the olden day I'm talking about 100 plus years ago. If you were born, you've never graduated, you hardly ever graduated from the economic status in which you were born, right? If you were born working class, you probably lived working class. If you were born, you know, under privilege, you probably stayed under privilege. But then what's been happening in the past like 20, 30, 40 years or whatever, or particularly since the age of the internet, is that you, like, you can go from being nobody to a millionaire

in a few days flat because you say like haktua or whatever you know no hate on her but no but no but no hit on her i'm like fuck it yeah that's like something about your personality captured whatever i'm just talking about the phenomena right that it doesn't like you can switch your status from morning to from from from from day to day and if it's not happening for you you think that you're that you think that you're entitled to that you think like fuck it i need my big break i need to make this flash on this world. And when it's not happening for you, then you need to blame somebody other than yourself. You need to, if somebody goes like, hey man, you know the reason why you're not fucking killing it. Like all these times. Nobody fucking set them down to them because your ideas are

shit. Like if you're trying to fucking do it. Like, you put out a product that's not good. If you make the product good enough, you know, somebody's like, it's not, it's somebody else's fault. And that's sort of, it creates a pocket of disillusionment that is then filled by this. is my theory. It's then filled with this rhetoric that is easy to blame outside and be like, it's unfair on me as opposed to taking accountability and seeing that it's, there's possible tracks towards achieving your dream. I think that's really the lesson here,

which is that like we need to tell more people that their ideas are fucking shit and they need to stop. Because that's how you learn, right? Like, that's how you like learned. Like, bro, like, I'm an actor, dude. Like, it's like the amount of fucking nose I've heard in my life. You know, I used to say this, but like fucking most people go through what? Maybe let's say 30 job interviews in their life. Let's say 50.

Fuck it. Right. I used to go through 50 a month, dude, you know, of which like maybe I got one. And like, you know. So maybe I'm coming from a perspective of, you know, I was a New York dude and I had the hustle in me. And, you know. But there's just the shortcuts that people are. expect and are disillusioned by when they don't exist are a little delusional, I think.

Yeah. But anyway. Sorry about ranting about it. You don't have to apologize. A lot of the guests on our show, they start ranting because of something horrible we've shown them from the internet. It's totally a normal reaction. I'm definitely panicking.

We got you. Welcome to Panic Girl, baby. I want to thank you for coming on. was excellent. This was this was as fun as a conversation about something like this could be. Do you have anything new coming up you want to plug and you know Yeah, well I have a

Let me take a little second I want to thank you for having me and also Like fuck you for depressing me But yeah You should check out my podcast if you're into history It's called greatest escapes And we have incredible guests on Including Andrew Tate loving

Joseph Gordon Levitt apparently Panic World is a garbage day production and subscribe to the newsletter at Garbage Day. Email. Panic World is written and produced by Grant Irving. It's hosted by me, Ryan Broderick. Our amazing researcher is Adam Bumis. It's engineered by Rebecca Seidel. Our Durange logo was created by Gabby Cash.

Please give us $5 at patreon.com slash Panic World. Please give us products to sell by contacting Multitude at multitude. Dot production slash ads. For any other way, you would like to give us money or work with us or promote us or become financially entangled with us, you can reach out to our fixer, our wonderful bag man, Josh Fielstad,

and you can reach him at Panicworldpod at gmail.com. And one piece of advice for me to you. Chill out. Touch grass while you still can. And he had a history of making, like, fake guns from, like, soap. He, like, escaped from a court once

because he held up the judge with a fake gun made out of soap. If this guy had a history of, like, making fake weapons, I feel like they shouldn't have believed the grenades that time. Like this guy has like a pattern of this baby. Also, all the love to my French friends.

I love them to death. But you know, these guards are like, they don't go. Like, I'm just saying like, you know, they're like, I don't know. Sometimes life is scared you. I don't, you know. I just like there, I feel like there's, it's not this sort of like military core dream. Like, I'm going to stop the bad guy. You know, it's a little more like, I'm not going to fucking die today.

It's a little more. I don't blame him. I think that's going to be the, I would say, yeah, yeah.